Game 5: Rangers-Canadiens in review



1) Dan Girardi called it a gong show. That’s as good as I’ve got. The Canadiens won, so they can be happy about it, but that’s a hideous game. Two in a row, actually, but Game 5 worse than Game 4.  Ghastly. After Game 4, after all the talk about discipline, the stench began right off the bat with the mindless penalty by Chris Kreider — who had maybe the worst one goal, three assists game in playoff history. Power-play goal Canadiens, and right down the plumbing from there. Not exactly the Matteau, Matteau, Matteau game.

2) Not putting this all on Kreider. The entire Derick Brassard-Mats Zuccarello-Benoit Pouliot line was awful. This unraveled. Look past the fact that the Rangers managed to come back against a shaky rookie goalie who looked scared to death in an elimination game. They fell apart. The Rangers calling card is defending and poise and goaltending, and they got Fs in all three departments.New York Rangers v Montreal Canadiens - Game Five

3) For a team on the cusp of the Stanley Cup final, the Rangers sure have had some malodorous performances. Game 6 vs. Philadelphia. Game 4 vs. Pittsburgh. A few others sprinkled in, including Game 4 just two nights earlier. I guess that’s the new NHL. The team everybody is ready to declare champions — Los Angeles — has had two three-game losing streaks in these playoffs. Two.

4) And you can see it coming with this Rangers team. First they get pass-happy, trying to thread fancy wish-passes when the better option is to shoot — especially with Dustin Tokarski looking ready to give up a crooked number, as he was. Derick Brassard, Martin St. Louis, Kreider, Rick Nash and Derek Stepan all gave up good shot opportunities to make a pass that failed early on. You can also see the panic-chasing of the puck in the D-zone, such as the Marc Staal (left defenseman) for no reason, playing the man at the half wall on the other side of the zone on the Max Pacioretty goal. And then the bad backchecks by the forwards, such as Kreider’s on, well, I forget which of the first six goals it was. Woeful.

5) And Henrik Lundqvist deserves plenty of blame in this one. Though, honestly, I said it before the second intermission, given that Cam Talbot looked rusty and unsettled, and that he just had one go off the crossbar and had allowed the 5-4 goal after the Rangers came back, I would have gone immediately back to Lundqvist to start the third. Mike Keenan would have. Book that. Lundqvist, if I was hearing correctly, thought it was best for Talbot to stay in. Maybe that’s why Alain Vigneault went that way. We’ll never know. I thought it was the wrong move.

New York Rangers v Montreal Canadiens - Game Five6) And AV, I thought, had a terrible night after everybody was singing his praises — I’m actually working on a story that virtually puts him on a pedestal. But in this game A) the lack of discipline, after Game 4, has to fall at his feet to some degree; B) the Lundqvist/Talbot decision, I thought, was bad; C) I said it at the time, and I know everybody’s leaping on the Patrick Roy bandwagon because it worked a few times, but I thought it was too early to pull Talbot for an extra skater. I thought, and said it at the time, that you give the power play a chance against this kid who’s shaking in his boots. Then, if you tie it or you don’t, you pull the goalie. I think the chances of an ENG are too, too great. And that it’s kind of a white flag. The ENG ends the game. I’m not giving up an ENG that early. No sir. AV’s decision to pull Lundqvist worked, but a timeout there might have worked just as well. AV saved another timeout in this game. He’s gonna need a bigger closet for all of them.

7) Making that decision worse: Goalie pulled, offensive zone faceoff, man advantage coming up. Stepan loses the draw and the puck goes right out. ENG to follow. Just like that 5-on-3. Offensive-zone draw. Brad Richards loses the draw and the puck goes right out. Been happening all year.

8) If Lundqvist and the Rangers need bulletin-board stuff, well Rene Bourque of the Chatty Canadiens provided it. “Everybody talks about how he’s a great goalie. Has he been better than (Tokarski) this series? I don’t think so.” Yikes.New York Rangers v Montreal Canadiens - Game Five

9) Now on to the stupidity. First the embellishing. Rocket Richard must be throwing up in his mouth looking down on this crap. So unmanly. So un-hockey-player like. Kerry Fraser tweeted to me that he pushed, a few years ago, for the embellishment penalty to be a four-minute penalty. He obviously despises it. I know that Colin Campbell despises it. The league has to get rid of it, and that means the referees have to start calling it a lot more. Then again, given the state of officiating, can we even think that there’s a 50/50 chance these referees will get it right? Probably not. They sure fouled up a few in the Philadelphia series. The Rangers, or any of the four teams still playing, better not hitch their wagons to the hope of consistent officiating. Not happening.

10) John Moore. He went back and forth with Dale Weise all night, and had a big clean hit earlier. His hit on Weise that got him ejected and in trouble, in terms of the contact, was the exact same hit as Brandon Prust that broke Stepan’s jaw. The same hit as Chris Neil’s that concussed Brian Boyle. The first two didn’t even get a minor penalty, and Prust’s was called interference by the league, because it was deemed NOT to be a head shot, but a late hit. So Moore’s, which was about half as late in seconds and tenths of seconds, as Prust’s, can’t possibly get more than one game. And Weise wasn’t hurt. I think he will get one game. If he gets two, it’s a joke. If he gets three, time for an investigation.

11) And here’s why. The guy who took over Brendan Shanahan’s position in the laughable department of Player Safety is Stephane Quintal, who already messed up the Prust situation. I am not impugning Quintal’s character at all. In fact, I found him to be a pleasant guy when he played for the Rangers. But he did indeed play most of his career in Montreal, and at the end of his dismal 1999-2000 Rangers season, he said his “heart was in Montreal” and was suspended by Garden president Dave Checketts, interim GM Don Maloney and interim coach John Tortorella. I was there in Boston and they ripped him a new one, deservedly so.  So with that potential motive out there, Quintal really, really, really should excuse himself from making decisions on events in this series. In journalism we are taught that even the perception of a conflict of interest is as bad as an actual conflict of interest. A perception exists and Quintal has already botched one decision. He should step away.

New York Rangers v Montreal Canadiens - Game Five12) And how about Stepan, with his broken jaw thanks to Prust’s “interference” (not a head shot, mind you) coming back four days after surgery and scoring a couple of goals? Good for him. Prust comes back for Game 6. That’s just wrong.

13) At the end of the game, Derek Dorsett bumped heads with Mike Weaver. Not even close to some of the garbage that has gone on in the playoffs the last several seasons (Shea WWEber, anyone?). Chatterbox Bourque cross-checked Dorsett up high and got a major and game misconduct at the buzzer. The NHL is looking at both of those. They should be squirt-bottle, couch-cushion change fines, at worst. But NHL Player Safety obviously has taught us to never assume, because as Roger Neilson said, “Two things you don’t want to know: What goes into a hot dog, and what goes on at NHL headquarters.”

14) Daily Nash-O-Meter. Scored his third goal in five games in this series. Had an assist. Had one blown coverage on a Montreal goal. Made one pass too many when he had a chance to fire. Put another one right into Tokarski’s CH logo.

15) Best thing for the Rangers is that they usually respond when they have a smelly game like this one. And that Lundqvist usually comes back strong. And that there is never, ever any carryover of momentum from one game to the next, it all starts completely new at the next puck drop. And that Tokarski was exposed. In fact, if he doesn’t miraculously get the butt-end of his stick on that Carl Hagelin shot, maybe this series is over. He gave up four, and should have given up even more, and the Rangers are to blame for this coming back to the Garden.

My Three Rangers Stars:New York Rangers v Montreal Canadiens - Game Five
1. Derek Stepan.
2. Kevin Klein.
3. Rick Nash.
Kenny Albert’s Three Rangers Stars:
1. Chris Kreider.
2. Derek Stepan.
3. Rick Nash.
Josh Thomson, 26’s Three Rangers Stars:
1. Derek Stepan.
2. Rick Nash.
3. Chris Kreider.
Your poll vote for Three Rangers Stars:
1. Derek Stepan.
2. Kevin Klein.
3. Ryan McDonagh.

Photos by Getty Images.

Twitter: @rangersreport.



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  1. BickelsPickle on

    Not so happy with being numero uno on this freshly baked post since I’ve been up coughing for the past half an hour. Aaaaaah. Well, at least I got me a nice new post to take my mind off it.

  2. BickelsPickle on

    To add to the ENG/AV pulling Talbot. There’s 6 seconds left on the 5 on 3. More likely than not, you won’t create much in those 6 seconds. Why don’t you just have Talbot stand up at the dots? Wait until you at least get your cycle going on the 5 on 4 and then pull him for the extra skater. I just don’t understand. Most surprising feat of the night: actually coming back from 4-1 deficit. Kudos. And kudos for making that as short lived as possible.

  3. Your review provides the perfect start to the morning after a far from perfect game. Fans of Kings are probably salivating while Blackhawk rooters are kicking themselves if they watched that display. A couple of COC (comments on comments) of my own #6)wanted to address the AV issue after game 4- but we won-so its hard to question what appeared to be a wrongheaded approach to the game that I assumed came from the top down- seemed to be trying to play at hyper speed- there’s a difference between frantic and desperate- #5) spent the whole between periods discussing “to Hank or not to Hank” with my son, the goalie, he wanted Hank back- I was afraid the pull-cooldown-return might result in injury (I’ve been a Ranger fan a lot longer, so I’m more of a fatalist)- since Rangers never scored again I think point is moot- also, personally would have called timeout AFTER we tied game at 4- to point out that what just transpired was phoney repreive and to start playing our game from there forward. Kreider? His mistakes are as jaw dropping as his talent sometimes. None of it matters if Hank isn’t better going forward…

  4. Just a god awful performance from the goalie on out. After tying it 1-1 4-4 the habs two quick responses can’t happen that quick. Didn’t have time to think did the habs at all and feel pressure.

    Onto game 6. Not a second I enjoy it Thursday night being there

  5. Rangers team D was atrocious. That looked like a typical game for them in Montreal, it was a three ring circus. I am shocked they tied it at 4 and thank God they somehow took the first 2 there. I dont blame AV for keeping Cam in for the 3rd and I dont blame him for pulling him early eiher for the extra man. He tried, the team failed to execute. Moore will be gone for 1 at least, but I wouldn’t be shocked if its 2 because well no one seems to know wtf they are doing in the Safety Dept. Right on the money Carp all along about the officiating. I have been a NYR and hockey fan for over 50 yerars and I am disgusted by some of what I have seen from them in this years playoffs.
    Just win tomorrow and all will be right in the world again.
    Lets Go Rangers!

  6. Well…that sucked! Refs will crack down on the embellishments by penalizing the Rangers. Only solace in losing the next two..would be NBC Sportsgets a sucky playoff duo…a gift to Ed Synder. I dont see us losing the next two…but we easily played well enough to be down 3-2… man..this team sure knows how to dump good will! Still feel like we are playing with house money..and we still got Hank. Not sure what Diaz has to give us…but Kevin Klein sure has been hiding his offense. Big question is..can Hank handle a game 7 at the Dumb Bell Centre?

  7. Yes, the refs were plenty embarrassed by the embellishment, so much so that they allowed themselves to be “fooled” by Subban on Poulliot’s “slew foot”. That one was huge. He never kicked, never made that contact.

    The early pulling is not a genius move. Roy got lucky early on when it worked, but going to 6 attackers should always be based on having nothing to lose. And it primarily works because of no change on the icing. On the PK, there is no such risk.

    2 goals in 4 minutes with a full PP is not insurmountable. I think back to Lemaire in Messier’s game 6. Pulling Brodeur in that game was a huge break for the Rangers.

    But let’s not forget the main issue last night: Hank has games like this when the prize is on the line. No way to overlook that fact. The “legacy” issue is unfair, until last night happens again.

  8. Carp
    Having Nash over McDonough as your third star reeks of charity. New is playing scared hockey, but who cares? Over and done with it.

  9. #11 needed to be said, so thank you.

    Spot on review. Games like that make you wonder how they’re even in this situation. Game 6 IS their Stanley Cup. If they lose it this series is most likely over. That sucks too because Montreal hasn’t played a man’s game and don’t deserve to move on. All that house of horror crap is back in play I guess.

    Two things I keep hearing and I resent them both:
    1- talk about the Rangers not being in this position since ’94. Means nothing. Add a year and that’s what Montreal is playing for since they haven’t won since ’93

    2- different series if Montreal scores in game 4 ot? Well series over if NY scores in OT in game 3 AND 4

  10. Speaking of the embellishment calls, I’m surprised that Subban hasn’t been highlighted more in this discussion by the press. For a big, strong guy who skates well it seems that he winds up on the ice every time here is the slightest amount of contact or appearance of contact to his skates.

  11. Hank will be big Thur it’s a lock…book it! Will Nash, Zuc, Richards, The, Staal, pullout, MSL and hags be as well?

  12. Blueshirtfan77 on

    @ABIndy – I would have called the timeout after tying at 4 as well, I think the timeout is a great tool for settling emotion, both high and low. Taking a break there to settle everyone down, refocus on what had become a new game, and get everyone settled was definitely needed. There was too much action going on and not enough direction.

    And this series is really going to hell in a hand basket quickly. I am 99% sure NYR do not win a game 7 in that building which means for them tomorrow night is pretty much a must win. Pressure’s off the Habs for the rest of this series now…

    Holy Hank! Not very often he gives up a stinker like that. Guess he fed off of everybody else, but he was clearly not with it. That’s ultra rare. I don’t know if it was jitters over finally getting a shot at the big show or what but he was out to lunch. I know Carp wanted him back but I think he knew he wasn’t with it. The positive is that he almost always rebounds with a huge game, thanks to never-to-be-hired analyst Bourque for the bulletin board material.

    I have loved AV’s approach this year and we’ll get a chance to see him earn his money now. He’s got to reel this in. Montreal took the game to the media and into the “fluff fluff” with their chirping and diving. Seems to me the Rangers have been caught up in some of this “gamesmanship” and have lost focus on what they were doing early in the series and what they need to do to be successful.

    It comes down to game 6 now, I don’t have much hope for a game 7, despite the recent track record.

  13. Subban has been the #1 culprit with embellishing. Talented or not I can’t respect that guy.

  14. Kerry Fraser's Barber on

    JJP that’s exactly what I said last night – almost verbatim.

    I watched PK at MSG during warmups and that kid is a strong skater. He puts his legs down with authority when he’s skating during warmups and when he’s actually playing hockey. But the minute the first whistle blows, he’s about as light on his feet as a Penguin. It’s like Ray Shero has him on speed dial. Someone will, at some point, hit him up high, behind the play, with a suspension-worthy hit that will shorten his career should these antics continue – though it won’t be a Ranger to do it.

    I don’t know how the league should be addressing these ridiculous embellishments, but they’re bad for the NHL, and worse for the refs. Obviously in some cases they have obstructed views and that plays a role, but the problem is that embellishment works and it keeps continuing to work. It should be sending a clear signal to the officials that “our team doesn’t trust that you’ll make the calls, so we’ll help you out,” and it’s disruptive to the flow of the game. In the playoffs I don’t think a post-game fine is going to fix it; I think if it’s flagrant enough the NHL should toss around 1 game suspensions. That would fix it right quick. Call it the “Department of Player Honesty.”

    When you can get the clowns at NBC to take notice – you’ve really reached rock bottom as a team.

    And given all the mystique of Montreal as the place hockey cut its teeth and the Bell Centre being the Mecca of hockey – for the Habs to disrespect the game in this fashion is mind-boggling. “Proud tradition…”

  15. iDoodie Machetto on

    I had it Stepan-Kreider-McDonagh.

    Just a putrid game last night on both sides. I just want to pretend like it never happened. Disgusting.

  16. iDoodie Machetto on

    Looks like Moore is being called a check to the head, while Prust was just interference.

    I don’t think either was a check to the head, given the way the rule was written.

    Dorsett is going to go for his headbutt, but nothing doing re: Bourque’s major and game misconduct to end the game.

  17. Admiral Akbar on

    Therrien = genius.

    His yapping and gamesmanship between the games may just be what’s gotten the rangers off their game.

    Subban = overrated

    Tokarski = overrated

    Prust = gets to return to series and be a difference maker. = Baloney

    Lundqvist = didn’t he ask himself out of a game before within the past few season’s?

    Rangers = choked up game 5

  18. Great review Carp! Can’t say I enjoyed it though with my morning cup of coffee. That one was tough to swallow. It totally reminded me of Game 5 against the Canucks in 1994.

    In retrospect, in both of those games, I wish the coach had called time out and said, OK, we tied it up. Time to get away from this wide open style and lock down defensively! If we could have gone into the third 4-4, I think we could have won that game.

    The only silver lining is that their performance in Game 6 round 1 and Game 4 round 2 were PUTRID, and they followed up those games with very strong performances.

    It is official, my HATRED for the Habs and their fans now runs VERY DEEP!


  19. By the way Carp, what was up with the site last night. It took forever to post a comment and I couldn’t even get on the page a bunch of times?


  20. Admiral Akbar on


    We all know JMoops’ and Doorstop’s plays were premeditated hits that need to be taken out of the game. But Justice Renee Bork’s hit was accidentally not on purpose and only the result of the intense emotion to be expected at the end of a (gifted) game.

  21. Norm Merton on

    #7 Goalie pulled,etc. “Stepan loses the draw and the puck goes right out.” That’s not on Stepan. He drew the puck back, McD delayed and then overcommitted forward, Kreider went barreling forward, and Richards of all people was the only one playing good defense. Whatever the play was supposed to be, I have no idea, but a pretty passive one considering what a gamble it was to begin with! Gong show indeed.

  22. If the Rangers game gets out of hand in Game 6 (either way) the beat down should be on Rene Bourque. That filthy Frog in Frog Heaven. He’s got some balls to compare a 5 times Vezina Trophy nominee to this scrub of a beer league goaltender whose a…. was as tight as a snare drum last night. Why the Rangers don’t continue I go blocker side on this clown is beyond me, gives up more rebounds than any “winning” goalie I’ve ever seen.

    Sorry for the hate so early in the morning, just dreamt about the game all night long and can’t understand how the wheels fell off last night…from Hank on out.

  23. This game reminded me a little of game 5 of the ECF 2 years ago sort of. Down 3-0, tying it in the 3rd and then letting up a stinker goal. Not exactly the same game, but the same feeling after the game was over.

  24. Admiral Akbar on


    I agree – I mentioned Game 5 of ’94 Finals about 3 timesuring and after game last night. Coming back from 3-0 then eventually losing 6-3… Sloppy play, weird goals, lots of emotion.

    Hopefully Game 6 will NOT resemble Game 6’s outcome from ’94 Finals.


  25. well said Kerry’s Barber.

    Disgusting that such crap happens by such an historic franchise. Therrien should be run out of the Province for bringing such from Stealers country (Pittsburg).

  26. Norm Merton on

    # 12 “Prust comes back for Game 6. That’s just wrong.” But if the hits were the same and Moore should get only one game, Prust should have played last night, no? I thought the Carp school was that the injury aspect should not enter into it. Weise could just as easily been concussed as bell-rung — say he’s concussed, does Moore now get an extra day? There’s actually no way, in my opinion, to get all these decisions “right”. Until there’s an actual desire to reduce head injuries, reflected in something like automatic 10-game suspensions for any and all head blows, things will remain as they are. The NHL has zero interest in actually fixing the problem, knowing the fans absolutely want the big, dangerous hits in the game, and that there’s a good supply of replacement players. It’s up to the players themselves.

  27. Admiral Akbar on


    And whom do you think Sidney C. learned all of this diving and yapping from??

    Coach Therrien

  28. Admiral… I’m not bothered by such antics in football country, if Therrien is that kind of a teacher let him coach teams in expansion territory & leave original 6 teams to real hockey people.

  29. Okay, not their best game. But, they are coming home with a 3-2 lead. I’m sure we all would have signed up for that prior to the series. And don’t forget, there is no carry over from game to game.

    Hank will be better on Thursday.

    Johnny Moore gets one game. No prior record, wasn’t that late.

    Regarding AV decisions….I do not think we should have called a timeout at 4-4. Easy to say in hindsight, but seeing we had the momentum there, you keep moving ahead against a rattled team.

    I would have gone back to Hank in the third, but as has been said, perhaps Hank was mentally shot there.

    I do think AV pulled Talbot too early, which again is easy to say in hindsight but I mentioned to my wife before the play.

    Not ready to commit to the ledge yet, but hold my reservation for game 7. Should we go there, I do not think it impossible to win in Montreal. This team has showed me a lot (good and bad :-) ).

  30. Sioux-per-man on

    Might have reach back and flush 2 or 3 times for that game. At least they picked a game they could give up, and not game 7.

    Better to win this series at home in front of the “quietest” fans in the NHL!

  31. gregm_oldsection403 on

    I hope the blog is fixed for the next game. I’m not sure what was slower last night: rangers picking up their coverage in the d-zone, or the blogs servers.

  32. That Kreider penalty that set the games direction was a fear move on his part. Fear of what the officials are doing. Rather than hitting SueBan he tries to bail on the hit & takes a weak penalty.

    Tough to play when the rules are changing every period.

  33. It’s easy to say that this team is a Zubov and Graves away from being a perennial finalist. Now I think they could use more of Jan Erixon and Niklas Sundstrom. The forwards horrendous back checking this year has cost us how many ugly goals? I lost count at F***K

  34. The Rangers were fighting the puck all game. They looked more like they were playing a December game against Florida than for a chance to get to the SCF. Every time the puck was on their stick, they fumbled it. Passes were too soft so they were easily intercepted or went nowhere. All night long like that. You could tell they weren’t in the game as they should. As bad as the refs were (and they were bad) this one was all on the Blueshirts. Hank was bad, but so was Tokarski. Talbot did not look like Calm Talbot last night. He looked cold and he looked nervous. A few other observations.

    I thought Staal was brutal. He’s in love with his stick again and just refuses to take the body. On one goal, He’s in front of the player, and instead of just leaning on him and pushing him off the puck, he’s got his stick trying to swipe the puck away, he misses and it’s a goal. Terrible. Same play a few minutes later, McD pushes the player off the puck and the Rangers get it.

    Pulling the goalie with so much time left is dumb. Especially when you have a PP and they can take pot shots at the empty net. I’d love to see a stat that shows how often teams tie the score as opposed to giving up an ENG. My perception is, it’s 50/50. Dumb.

    And AV maybe coached his worst game as a Ranger. No timeout when it was 4-1? No time out at 4-4? I don’t get his aversion to timeouts. Someone has to explain his reasoning. Then the goalie pull…I think I might have done the same thing, but seeing how Talbot was playing, I’m certainly bringing Hank back for the third. Brutal.

    What happened to the Zuc line? I know Brassard score a biggie, but they just look like they are lost. They look like they are trying to do too much. They (and the whole team) have “perfect pass” syndrome again. I’m hoarse from yelling “SHOOT THE PUCK” at the TV. This game could have been so much different had they just put the puck on net more.

    Oh well, it’s the one game we had “to give”. I agree, that if this goes seven, there’s little chance, despite our record in Game 7s we come back and win (and it would NOT shock me to see Price back in Game 7 either).

  35. I had no issue pulling talbot with 6 sec away from a two man advantage. The 5 guys on ice can’t allow possession there by Montreal.

  36. Crosby dived after therrien, and the Habs imo have always been a badly diving team. It’ll be less in game 6 though since they got called out on it.

  37. Stranger Nation on

    Nash gets a goal off a Dman and a secondary assist and he is just fine, but THE Kreider had a bad game. Jeesh. THE was definitely not playing smart hockey, but I will take the hustle and desire of THE over the laziness of Nash every day.

    Most disturbing part of the game was Staal who now has had three clunkers in a row. He is either regressing or the Habs have noticed he is slow to retrieve pucks on corner. Just killing us now.

    Henk did not close the door, in fact, he opened it right back up. Nothing to do about the first goal, but the next three were nothing special.

    Thursday night, they have to get it done!

  38. Panic time is back. They blow this series this is easily top two black marks in history of franchise. All good from earlier in playoffs gets erased.

    Get to cup final where most of us agree kings hawks simply better. Not this Habs team. Take your chances and hope for best. Lose now its devastating.

  39. Again, I advocate for the same officials for a whole series. Why they keep rotating guys in and out make no sense. The top ranked officials for the season should be in the CF and SCF. Why would you want your games officiated by anything less? And F the union. You want to have a shot at officiating late in the playoffs? Maybe you should, you know, be a better official. Joannette has no business being on the ice in ANY important game. And the a$$ clowns from last night don’t either. They FINALLY call an embellishment, but they screwed up on the Pouliot trip SO badly, that it “made up for it” Not to mention the Nash (I think it was Nash) charge into the goalie that was a push.

  40. Norm Merton on

    That the goalie-pull gamble didn’t work is such an unimportant aspect of this loss. Had it been better executed and the Rangers scored, they would still have been behind and had to gamble again later. The Rangers, let’s face it, were going to lose this game. The hockey gods had already gifted them a 4-4 tie and they couldn’t live with it. Kudos to Patrick Roy for actually understanding that losing 7-4 is no different than losing 5-4 and opening up the eyes of hindbound coaches and commentators. He has changed the game, in a good way.

  41. so are we all agreeing that it was better for this game to be such a bad game than NYR losing a heartbreaker?

    makes me sick to my guts. a trip to the finals on the line and LQ puts up maybe his worst game of the season. advil.

  42. Admiral Akbar on

    In some ways this loss is worse than losing 2-1 in a tightly contested, well played game.

  43. Admiral Akbar on

    Blow this series and all fingers will point to the opportunity squandered in last night’s game.

    AV has his work cut out for him with this team now. Let’s see what he does.

  44. steveknj – The Nash goalie interference ended up as a Ranger powerplay, as I think Weaver got a penalty.

    We got a penalty from Zuccarello interference on Tokarski.

  45. Good morning all! Or, maybe not. That was one of the most insane games I can recall watching in forever. WTB? We better put the big boy pants back on tomorrow and lock this up.

    Hey Carp, don’t sugar coat your thoughts, tell us what you really think :)

  46. As to #5, after much going back and forth during the intermission, I thought staying with Talbot was the right move – shows you how much I know :-) I based that on the fact that Talbot had played so well in the Bell Centre.

    As for getting our doors blown off – have to believe it is better than losing a close game where the team can be delusional and think one break made a difference.

    This way there are no ifs-and-or-buts about it – they let a golden opportunity pass through their hands. Hopefully they start Thursday night’s game focused on doing what they need to win and cleaning up all of their bad habits.

  47. “Eric
    Panic time is back. They blow this series this is easily top two black marks in history of franchise. All good from earlier in playoffs gets erased.

    Get to cup final where most of us agree kings hawks simply better. Not this Habs team. Take your chances and hope for best. Lose now its devastating.

    May 28th, 2014 at 8:13 AM”

    With all due respect Eric, do you ever find anything positive to say? Your comments are almost routinely doom and gloom? What gives? It seems as if you get NO PLEASURE out of this team.

    There are tremendous ups and downs during great cup runs. look at the 94 team! Not only were they down 3-2 to the Devils. In game six, they were down 2-0 and were being totally dominated until Kovalev scored the 1st Ranger goal.

    I believe in this team! I believe in this Goalie! I believe in this coach!


  48. @Admiral, not in some ways…. in every way. Montreal now believes they can not only beat us but crush us

  49. Norm Merton on

    “SHOOT! SHOOT!! SHOOT!!! Oh. OK, I guess.” Soundtrack from Bonehead living room as McDonagh refuses to shoot, passes it to MSL, who passes to Brassard, who refuses to shoot and passes to McD, who refuses to shoot and passes to Kreider, who slides it into an empty net.

    I agree that more pucks on the rookie is a good idea if there are no better options, but if AV opts for that tactic in Game 6, he better convince some forwards to get dirty in the slot. The Rangers are a passing team, for better or worse, and it’s gotten them five wins away from the Cup.

  50. Norm Merton – Couldn’t agree more. While Tokarski is no one’s idea of Dryden, he’s a professional goalie and they can’t just expect quantity of shots to get the job done. They need to be quality.

  51. Corky Bucek on

    Mickman – great comment. Agree with everything you said.

    Boys looked like they were skating through sand this whole game.

    Someone proposed a coach’s challenge for an embellishment call a few days ago… apologies I forget who it was but I was thinking more about it during last night’s game and I really don’t see a downside to implementing a mechanism like that.

    As always, loved the review, Carp

  52. Good morning, boneheads!

    Carp, I have no idea how you can put together a review like that after what transpired last night. Great job.

    Plenty was discussed about what should and shouldn’t have been done during the game thread last night. We all have our opinions, wrong more often than right. Doesn’t matter today. Plenty of blame to go around all day long, I’m sure.

    If you ask me, I blame *this blog* for what transpired last night. Because you all need to have your collective heads examined talking about the SCF yesterday and day before, and getting all nostalgic about ’94 with your memories etc. You should know better.

    Kidding aside, this was their traditional one-per-series-stinker-out-of-the-way game last night. Carp said, you know how they usually play after such a game, Hank including. Let’s hope it’s just a part of the history to be made akin to some games they played….ummm…20 years ago. So, again, as hard as it may seem this morning, you have to enjoy this ride and take this game as a small, but integral part of what has been an amazing playoff experience.

  53. Weird game, not one that seemed like a team could have gotten to the Final winning it. Hard to get in a groove watching it with all the back and forth. Like I said yesterday, if they were going to lose, better to be horrible defensively with some questionable goaltending. Same as Game 6 against the Flyers. I expect Hank and the D to have a strong game at MSG.

    That said, *DOOMED*.

  54. iManny-O-War on

    Me too *BlueshirtFan77*. I’m a big proponent of taking a timeout after a huge goal. When they got to 4-4 I would call a timeout, regroup and discuss the importance Of Taking that score into the 3rd.

    Re: *Embellishment* – why not just start suspending guys a game for it? Plekane? has been doing at least one a game. They finally caught this one. Slap him with a game suspension after a league review determining if the call was correct and he probably stops doing that.

    *eric* is correct. This is *Panic* time. Rangers need to play like it on Thursday. That’s a must win.

    See youse guyses on the ledge.

  55. Funny how Dave Stubbs and his fanboy following were talking about the terrible, brutal JMoops hit. Where was the outrage when Prust did the same thing.

    Difference between Therrien and AV:

    Therrien – hockey hit

    AV – right call on the ice, late hit, and I’m sure the league will look at it.

  56. Manny-O-War. King of Metal on

    Did I mention that last night was pretty much the worst hockey game I have ever seen in my life? And I used to root for the Whalers.

  57. Manny-O-War. King of Metal on

    ….and can last night put to bed the argument that the NHL needs more scoring? That was HORRIBLE.

  58. Better to have a clunker up 3-1 than down 3-1, or really any other time in a series.

  59. Amen Manny, I’d much prefer a well played 3-2 game than something like that.

  60. Gravy, those hits were tooooooootally different, just ask [insert fan of the same team I’m a fan of].

  61. Yeah, I mean, we can argue over strides, or tenths of a second, but they were essentially the same hit. Except one was on a #1 Center, and the other was on a 4th line wing.

  62. Doodie Machetto on

    I think ilb was on the right path in blaming the blog. But it’s not the blog’s fault, so much as one blogger’s fault.

    *Way to go, Manny.*

  63. Carp, on #11. Agree with you, but it won’t happen. First, it would be him admitting there is still a grudge. But even if he did, the NHL won’t let him. The precedent would be set for the future, and every newly hired person would have to answer some questions about their past. Because most of them had some history with one or two teams. Unless the league plans on hiring people from outside of hockey, it won’t happen.

  64. Rob in Beantown, 100-Watt Warlock on

    I had it:

    This Space Intentionally Left Blank

  65. Manny-O-War. King of Metal on

    “There are some nights when
    sleep plays coy,
    aloof and disdainful.
    And all the wiles
    that I employ to win
    its service to my side
    are useless as wounded pride,
    and much more painful.” – Maya Angelou

  66. Doodie Machetto on

    Just to piggyback onto what ilb said re: Quintal, he can’t recuse himself at this point. He already involved himself in the Prust decision. He can’t say now that there is a conflict because it would mean automatically mean that there was a conflict when he made the Prust decision.

  67. Personally, short of a W, last night was the best case scenario for our boys.

    Lose a tight game and you’re not making big adjustments. Get embarrassed and have your goalie pulled and you realize that there needs to be a 6th gear identified.

    I’m confident we bring it home and shut the down tomorrow.

    LOVED seeing Step get a few and have a lot of confidence in this team to get it right. Worst hockey game you’ve ever seen? Maybe…. sure wasn’t the least entertaining however!

  68. Manny-O-War. King of Metal on

    @JoshRimerHockey: Hearing that Hurricanes waiting for end of playoffs because *Ulf Samuelson* is leading Candidate for Head Coaching job.

  69. Re 6: The problem with adapting Roy’s strategy is that coaches are doing it without understanding the math and, seemingly, without considering the situation. We already saw in the 2nd how quickly Tokarski could barf up two (or three) goals, so let them play out another two minutes or so. There’s a “right” time to pull, and its earlier than history dictated, but last night was awful timing. Too early, wrong goalie, pre-possession, everything. Yuck.

    Re 9: Hate the idea of the on-ice refs taking it from 2:00 to 4:00, but would love to see carryover misconducts.

  70. Back to hockey- I’m not sure Stepan should be talking important face offs. You could see that his vision down low is far from perfect because of that mask. He lost a puck down at his feet a few times, but it wasn’t as detrimental as losing an important face off. Faceoffs has never been his best skill to begin with.

  71. Manny-O-War. King of Metal on

    We have had this argument at length. Whether you pull the goaltender on the PP to get a 2 man advantage. The fact that they can clear the puck without consequence really hurts the chance. But, on the other hand, if the Rangers control that faceoff who knows.

  72. Manny-O-War. King of Metal on

    *Ilb* – why does Stepan still have his beard? They do the entire procedure from inside his mouth?

  73. Doodie Machetto on

    I had no problem with the time left in which Talbot was pulled, given that we were on the PP and would have the 6 on 4 as a result. What I had a problem with was pulling him before we had possession. It’s not a minute left in the game where we have to go for broke. We still had to defend our net with that much time left. Even if that’s not an empty netter, it would have still been a shorthanded breakaway.

  74. Doodie Machetto on

    Given how poor Stepan usuaaly is at faceoffs, maybe not being able to see will be an improvement.

  75. I have to go make rounds, so for now- Carp, you need to talk to your IT clowns about the site being slow to load up for a couple of days. I know the traffic has been heavy, but still. Imagine if, heaven forbid, they go into SCF? Talk about traffic.

    Oops, bite your tongue, ilb, bite your tongue. :-)

  76. I think the real blow opportunity was the 5 on 3, since they essentially cleared the puck for the Canadiens twice. First, they just about got possessions, but the backpass was out of McD? (or Richards’?) reach. Then they retrieved the puck in the neutral zone, passed off a teammates shin, and the puck went back into the D zone.

    They killed about 25 of the 35 seconds due to inability to make a pass.

  77. I may have added or taken away a few letters off words there, but you get the idea.

  78. Manny-O-War. King of Metal on

    For two über soft teams there have been a *ton* of suspensions and questionable hits.

  79. That’s about the only thing that concerns me, Manny. Games 100 and 101 we’ve completely lost what got us here, no discipline and resorting to Philadelphia-level garbage on the ice.

  80. Rangers remind me of Cinderella. They turned into Cinderella back in game 5 against the Pens and last night they turned back into a pumpkin. I have a really bad feeling the rangers are in trouble.

  81. If the Rangers have turned into pumpkin, expect MSG to be full of suburban housewives tomorrow night!

    #starbucks #spicedlattes #autumn #flavoredcoffee #seasonalconsumables #potentialclincher

  82. _The lack of discipline is really upsetting._

    “Sorry guys, too busy giving interviews about being a leader to step back into the room and clean this mess up. I’m sure you’ll handle it just fine in Game 6.” – anonymous Ranger in a #19 jersey (sweater)

  83. Yeah it was Zuc who got called for GI not Nash when he got pushed into the goalie.

    Does anyone know where you could find stats on the number of times a team scores with the goalie pulled versus the number of ENG? Maybe it’s because it’s the Rangers, but I bet it’s no better than 50/50. In which case, why bother?

  84. bull dog line on

    I see a few people have said this already, but I am going to say it as well.
    in game 5 in the 94 finals, the Rangers scored 3 in the 3rd to tie the game. very frenetic stretch the Rangers played to tie it. I thought at the time, when Messier tied it, call timeout. the game is tied, go back to the regular system. Bure scores less than a minute later. I had 2 thought when Kreider scored to tie it. put Hank back in, and call timeout. the game is tied, you don’t need to play the frenetic style anymore. 50 seconds later, game over.

  85. Manny-O-War. King of Metal on

    Habs think that J. Moore’s hit was later than Prust’s hit on Stepan. LOL

  86. You just KNOW Hank saw that quote by Bourque. Mad Lundqvist is a very good Lundqvist. I hope. LOL @ Chatty Canadiens.

  87. bull dog line on

    part of leadership, is standing up in front of the media, representing the team, giving interviews. nice try though.

  88. Doodie Machetto on

    Eric, -if- (who am I kidding?) when the Canadiens win in 7 games, do you think break up day will be on Sunday or Monday?

  89. _I had 2 thought when Kreider scored to tie it. put Hank back in, and call timeout. the game is tied, you don’t need to play the frenetic style anymore._

    I find agreeing with you weird and unsettling, but yes. In hindsight, I think we still lose the game, but I’d rather lose w/ Henrik in net than with Talbot just because it erases all doubt and what-if-ness. 4-4 game with 26:00 to play, you _have_ to take your chances with Lundqvist over Tokarski, no matter how shaky Lundqvist has looked.

  90. Rob in Beantown, 100-Watt Warlock on

    steveknj, even if it were 50/50 ENG/extra attacker goal I think it’s still worth it for the losing team if it increases their chance of scoring, because if they don’t score they lose the game anyway. It’s high reward but only moderate risk because the team was probably going to lose anyway.

  91. nancie pants on

    carp, i think you always try to be fair and balanced. Why do yiu think there seems to be so much garbage coming from the rest of the nhl writers – from the clown on yahoo claiming the ECF is an embarrassment to hockey and the people claiming dorsett should be banned after his monstrous flying head butt last night?

    Are this people watching the same game or am i just too blue tinted?

    i wish all the side show stuff would go away but it seems like the embellishing on the ice and the yellow journalism off it is hitting its peak.

    what gives?

  92. Carp, Neil didn’t get a suspension for that hit on Boyle, did he? I think the Rangers are the punching bag for the league. If you hurt them, no harm, no foul. Any other team and watch out. We see it happen time after time.

  93. _Maybe it’s because it’s the Rangers, but I bet it’s no better than 50/50. In which case, why bother?_

    Because you’re ignoring the third variable of “no one scores”, which is also a negative result. If you’re already losing, you have to raise your chance of scoring at the risk of raising theirs as well.

  94. Doodie Machetto on

    Well said, Mister D. I was trying to find the right way to put it but I think you’ve said it best.

  95. bull dog line on

    all animosity aside, we agree more than you think. I am not a big believer in advance STATS as a way to form an opinion on a game. I am more of a believer on what I see. other than that though, we do see a lot of the players the same way, with exceptions of course.

  96. I am not worried at all. Tokarski has a 2.92 GAA and a 90.2 SV% and the Rangers never lose game 7s anymore.

    The Rangers were complacent and didn’t have the intensity needed, but fear not, the real Rangers will not lose this series. Montreal is not good enough to win 3 in a row especially a game 7.

  97. Rob in Beantown, 100-Watt Warlock on

    It’d be cool if late in Game 6 we are winning going away (LOL) and the Garden crowd did a mock “Olé” chant. That would rule so much.

  98. oleosmirf Game 7, if there is one (please, no…) it will be played in Mtl. That worries me.

  99. Manny-O-War. King of Metal on

    I really, really thought that, when they tied it at 4, that the game would settle down. Had to take that lead into the 3rd.

  100. Nothing could possibly be more irritating than the “Tal-BOW” chant. Canadiens fans unintentionally win.

  101. Last night was atrocious, but can’t help but wonder if this series is over if Prust had been called in Game 3. NY had enough chances to win that game anyway – unsettling in any case.

  102. BickelsPickle on

    Poor Johnny Moore looked devastated in the box after the hit. Almost like he saw the GHOSTLY NASH

  103. Carp
    Good review, thanks

    I agree with ILB and doodie, it’s the blog’s fault. People talking about the finals, changing screen names, changing avatars…change nothing people, change nothing.

    Talk about dreadful, after Stepan loses that 5 on 3 draw at the start of the PP, two ranger players run into each other in the nuetral zone both going for the puck and it slides further into the rangers zone…lost about 25 seconds of 2 man advantage time looking like the keystone cops.

  104. Doodie Machetto on

    My white tribal dance was in full force after we tied the game. I thought we should have gone back to Lundqvist simply because Talbot looked REALLY shaky. If I have to choose between two shaky goaltenders, give me Lundqvist to battle through it.

    The play in our defensive zone, though, is the real problem. Just absolutely atrocious. Guys running around like chickens with their heads cut off. Just can’t believe a team one win away from the SCF could play such poor defense.

  105. Meshuggah1902 on

    This games reminded me of game 5 1994 finals against the Canucks, where we cam back from 3-0 down to tie the game then quickly gave up a goal to the Canucks.

  106. Manny-O-War. King of Metal on

    Wick: help me out on suspensions here.

    Am I the *only* person that thought Prust should have gotten *1* game?

  107. Manny-O-War. King of Metal on

    @TGfireandice But whether Moore was late or not doesn’t seem to be issue here. Hearing with Player Safety is for “illegal contact with the head.”

  108. Rob in Beantown, 100-Watt Warlock on

    If Prust got one game, then JMoops should only get half a game.

  109. Doodie Machetto on

    Manny, probably. Because everyone in NY thought two or more, and everyone in Montreal thought Stepan should have been suspended for hitting Prust’s shoulder with his jaw.

  110. bull dog line on

    Prust should have received at least 5. it was intent to injure, and targeting the head. Moore is looking at at least 1.

  111. Doodie Machetto on

    Manny, that’s what I was saying this morning: Moore’s hearing is for a hit to the head, not for interference, like Prust’s.

    While I’m probably in the minority when it comes to Prust’s hit not being an “illegal check to the head” (not according to rule 48, at least), I didn’t think Moore’s was, either. Have to see more replay angles to know for sure, but it looked shoulder to chest to me.

  112. Moore’s was a combination of everything; it was late, there was very obvious intent, he connected up high, etc. Just be glad it was our #6 defenseman and #12 forward who went idiot last night and not key players.

  113. Anyone saying Moore missed the head needs to rewatch the hit and the aftermath.

  114. Manny-O-War. King of Metal on

    I don’t think Prust’s hit was to the head. Definitely don’t think Moore’s was either. I thought it was a hit to the chest. Typical grinder guy trying to make a game changing hit. It was exceptionally late but there has to be some onus on Stepan there to maybe watch out as he skates up ice?

  115. Doodie Machetto on

    Mister D, it doesn’t matter what the aftermath is. Principal point of contact is what matters for rule 48. It looks to me that it’s Weise’s chest, with resulting impact on the head. Just like Prust on Stepan.

    If they’re calling him on the carpet for a hit to the head, don’t expect to see him again this series.

  116. Manny, how does one guy’s jaw break and another guy nearly drop after getting back up without head contact?

  117. bull dog line on

    to me, Moore’s hit, and eventual suspension is worth it. its just to bad the hit was not on somebody more important.

  118. Show of hands just curious how do you guys feel about this postseason run if we blow this series.

    Leave out any thoughts of losing to a better team in finals.

    Right now only.

  119. Doodie Machetto on

    Manny, even if Step has his head on a swivel there, he should in no way be expecting to be hit that far removed from playing the puck.

  120. bull dog line on

    not that the NHL takes these factors into account when giving out suspensions, but it was obvious, giving all the talk by Prust, that he was going out there looking to hurt a prominent Ranger. Moore went looking for Weiss after Weiss took a late run at him earlier.

  121. Amazing season Eric – we’ve matured and gelled as a team. We’ve welcomed a new coach and secured key players for the future. We embarrassed the Keystone state…. but, we WILL win this series.

  122. Doodie Machetto on

    Mister D, again, it’s not whether there is contact with the head. It’s whether the head is targeted and is the principal point of contact. That’s the way rule 48 is written.

    Also, and I’m sure ilb will back me up on this, but many concussions are caused without ANY contact to the head at all, but rather from the force of the head whiplashing.

    Furthermore, Weise apparently wasn’t concussed because he only went to the quiet room for like 3 minutes, rather than the mandatory 20.

  123. Rob in Beantown, 100-Watt Warlock on

    If we lose to Dustin Tokarski after being up 3-1 it’s a Del Zaster, no matter how you try to spin it

  124. bull dog line on

    beating Philly, and Pitt goes a long way for me. losing this would be tough to take, but looking back afterward would still be enjoyable.

  125. Disagree Dudley yes great run but you can’t blow this to a team your better then. This loss would erase any good will in pens series.

  126. Doodie Machetto on

    eric, I will look at this season as I did in 11-12. We came really far, we showed a lot of promise, but it ends with a very bad taste in my mouth of “what if?” And I don’t like our roster as much now as I did in 11-12.

  127. Here are a few thoughts that I will offer in print before Dolan becomes President and the NSA turns over my file to him for an IRS audit:

    1. The League MUST take action against this overly-rugged, nasty Ranger team.
    2. Big mouths like Bourque and Gallagher make me miss CarBomb. They can drop them, catch a few, and take 5 minutes or they can skulk away.
    3. And not for nuttin, but we are the victims of every after whistle scrum and nastiness in every period of every series. Maybe means nothing in the big scheme of things, but it boils my onions and I think it’s AV’s M.O.
    4. #20 is loaded with speed, talent, aggressiveness, will go to the net, battle, is willing, but is and has been poorly coached. That’s been seldom if ever mentioned.
    5. I, for one, am tired of AV saying the “right call was made.” Just coach the team and stop trying to go to heaven.
    6. AV says Moore’s was a late hit. Pretty stupid. Let the office decide that, don’t make the decision for them. What’s this guy, a born- again?
    7. AV with the little league coach move of pulling the goalie with, what 4.5 minutes left? On top of it, he doesn’t wait for us to win the draw to do it.
    8. Maybe AV would like to confirm Dorsett’s supposed head-butt for the league offices to save them time.
    9. Everyone who likes to diss Dorsett and Carcllo, next time you need a cop, call a hippie.
    10. The League will definitely give Bourque a game or two for his major/game misconduct cross-check at the buzzer. (s)

  128. Just think how close we are play for the prize. Hank vs tokarski. It can’t happen. Hank needs this series win more then anything. We need it as fans.

  129. bull dog line on

    and losing this series would be on Hank. this is an important series for his legacy. he cannot lose to Tokarski.

  130. Imagine if a cold no warmup Lundqvist came back in and pulled a muscle etc. Everyone would be ballistic.

  131. _Principal point of contact is what matters for rule 48. It looks to me that it’s Weise’s chest, with resulting impact on the head._

    Principal point is the old wording, Doodie. Rule 48 was adjusted this year to put the onus on the player to avoid head contact and Moore’s follow-through is going to make that a very difficult case to argue.

  132. The post-season would be a total bust to me if they lose this series…only because they would have been ONE frackin’ win away from competing in the Finals! It would be a disaster on par with what Pitt is experiencing now – regardless of the different expectations of each of the teams going in to the playoffs.

  133. Rob in Beantown, 100-Watt Warlock on

    Cap Geeked, Hank was only on the bench for a little while. It’s not like the guy doesn’t take rests during intermissions between periods every game.

  134. Manny
    Here’s the thing, I think the nhl ohsa is influenced (incorrectly I might add) by 2 things…

    They base discipline on the result, not the hit (stay down, act woozy, scream and roll around in pain, try to make yourself bleed with razor blades you keep hidden in your gloves), not the hit.

    They also base their suspensions (apparently) at least partly on what was called/seen by the in game officials…we all know they don’t make mistakes ever.

    Can’t do either one of those IMHO and get any sort of consistency or correct disciple handed down.

    I think the prust and j Moops suspensions should be the exact same amount of time. The prust hit was half a second later…(think about that, half a second). Neither really seemed to be the head as an initial point of contact/target (debate if you like, I’m sure you folks will). I’m still not sure Stepan didn’t break his jaw when he hit the ice, not from any part of Prust’s body.

    They were blindsided hits because guys (brass step weise) were admiring their passes instead of heads on a swivel (guys on the bench should be giving them a heads up…pun not intended), but again we are talking a second or less of time in a too fast paced game.

    Prust got 2 games because of an injury to Stepan, he should have got one game or just kicked out of that game.

    Moops will probably get one, but like prust should have just been kicked out and move on.

    Problem is on ice officials called them differently (and weise came back and hasn’t scheduled surgery yet) so the wheel of justice or line generator or something will probably end up giving Moops 5 games.

  135. I think it’s unfair, have you seen the size of weise’ chin?

    There would have been zippo head contact for Moops if it was a normal chin he had done a drive by on!!

  136. This “be aware” garbage needs to stop. Brassard shouldn’t be spinning 360 to make sure Mike Weaver isn’t going to blast him in the numbers well after a pass is gone.

  137. bull dog line on

    half second is a long time when playing at the speed these guys play at. both hit worth suspensions.

  138. bull dog line on

    agree MrD. (see it happens),
    none of the 3 hits were the fault of the player being hit.

  139. The the rangers tony romo this series after coming back from 3-1 against the bettmans and lose to tokarski are YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME!?!?!??!?!?!?

    No way. Take it tomorrow night.


  140. And another thing re: AV and Lundqvist: If Reggie Jackson is 0 for 4 late in game 5, do you pull him and send in Fran Healy to pinch-hit?

  141. How about the boarding call on Eller? More dangerous than Moops or prust no?

    Then there is the dorsett bjork incident at the end where as dorsett is going after bjork and a mtl player grabs the earhole/strap of dorsett a helmet and nearly rips it off with his head in it…direct head contact no?

  142. bull dog line on

    Montreal has made a mockery of this series, and the NHL offices. I guess it should be a compliment to the Rangers that Montreal has stooped to this level. basically admitting the Rangers are better, and this is the only way that we can beat you.

  143. Bull dog
    I agree, but it takes frame by frame analysis to determine millisecond differences, tough to call react in human time, which is the point I was trying to make.

  144. We can agree to disagree on the “victims” responsibility on this (and guys turning their backs to oncoming players and getting boarded as well).

  145. Yep, the game with the instigator penalty in it is far less of a circus than without it (s)

  146. Also, anyone excusing Moore needs to rewatch the Neil-on-Boyle hit, both for the “debatable lateness” as well as the “did he graze his shoulder or chest first” argument.

    Whether a Ranger is eating the hit or throwing it, it should be out of the game. Arguing on jersey lines is stupid.

  147. bull dog line on

    I think NHL players can make those hits all the time if they chose to. they don’t do it because it is dangerous.

  148. If you told me the Rangers lose in 7 before the series, I’d say it was a successful season.

    If they lose in 7, after being up 3-1 against a 3rd string rookie, it’d be a disappointment.

  149. I didn’t think they called prust for “interference” at all during the game. That was the determination by OSHA right?

  150. Matty"WhyNot!!"Boy on

    The two reasons JMoops gets called and Prust’s did not is that it was Montreal, where the fans are loud and make the calls themselves, and it happened to be closer to the play BECAUSE it was less late. One could argue, had our guys (Brass and Step) had personal acting trainers, they would have gone down, too, like a ton of bricks and called attention to their hit like Montreal has been doing for everything from incidentals to hard hits.

    That said, is it really fair for the on ice call to have more impact than a total blown, missed or watched but not called (Prust’s/how the $*$( could they????) hit????

    Only in the NHL, my friends, Only in the NHL.

  151. bull dog line on

    agree about the instigator penalty Wicky.
    you look at a guy like Dale Weiss running around like he has in the last 2 series, he can’t fight his way out of a paper bag, but he does not have to worry about that in the playoffs because there is little to no fighting in the playoffs. no wonder Lucic wants to kill him. I can’t wait to see it next season.

  152. “The refs missed dangerous hits so they should keep missing dangerous hits” is a poor argument.

  153. Doodie Machetto on

    Mister D, you are incorrect. Principal point of contact still matters. Rule 48:

    “A hit resulting in contact with an opponent’s head *where the head is targeted and the principal point of contact* is not permitted.”

    Therefore, neither hit is an “illegal check to the head” as defined by Rule 48.

  154. Matty"WhyNot!!"Boy on

    Mister @ 11:23, I am fine with that. But don’t start here, game 6 upcoming ECF with a ‘new set’ of rules and regulations. Start calling it with the Neill hit, the Boyle hit…..then I have no problem.

    It should be out of the game. No doubt.

  155. Doodie Machetto on

    Oh damn the NHL not updating its website.

    Well, despite the changing of the phrasing, the NHL said that the application of the rule would remain exactly the same.

  156. Doodie Machetto on

    “There is no change to the rule, but at this year’s Competition Committee meeting they asked if it would be better after now doing this for a couple of years if some of the language we use when we describe the rule would be better and easier for people to understand if we use that language in the rule,” NHL Senior Vice President of Player Safety and Hockey Operations Brendan Shanahan told “We are describing what we see as targeting or not targeting the head as opposed to just saying principal point of contact.

    “[The Competition Committee] just thought our explanations were clearer than the actual language of the rule.”

  157. Matty"WhyNot!!"Boy on

    BTW, anyone know what rules will be used to call penalties tomorrow night? Is clutching and grabbing allowed? Maybe in the 1st but not the 2nd? Are late hits going to be watched and not called? Only if Montreal does it? But if the Rangers do?

    Will charging be called if into a player? The goalie?

    How about embellishment? It has been called in one game this series. WIll that continue? In the 1st, but not the 2nd? How about the 3rd and in OT?

    Man, I am confused. WTF is going on???????

  158. Eric,

    I agree – we can’t let this get away from us. I dont believe that we will – Hank will be fierce and it can’t be THAT hard to stay out of the sin-bin.

    Regardless of what happens moving forward, we’re one of the final four teams standing. We’ve grown as a group by a leap I couldn’t have imagined. We’ve demonstrated heart, we’ve locked up great talent and if you cant appreciate that as a success, you’re likely the type that complains about paying taxes after winning the mega-millions.

    We’ve already “WON” this season – it’s just a matter of how big.

    Now – before I get beaten up by the internet monsters, I’m by no means suggesting we become complacent as a team, fan base or otherwise. I’m simply suggesting that this is the furthest we’ve made it in 20 years. If we’re only “pleased” once in twenty years, it’s likely not the best use of time to be a fan.

    So – I believe we capitalize on the momentum. I believe this team has it covered in a major way. I believe Hank makes “Ticky” or whatever they call him look like the rookie he is.


  159. Doodie Machetto on

    The currrent phrasing of the rule:

    Illegal Check to the Head – A hit resulting in contact with an opponent’s head where *the head was the main point of contact* and such contact to the head was avoidable is not permitted.

  160. Matty"WhyNot!!"Boy on

    Dudley, we are playing with house money. It’s been an amazing run!!

  161. Doodie, you are incorrect. Principal point of contact was written out of the rule. Rule 48:

    “A hit resulting in contact with an opponent’s head where the head was the main point of contact and such contact to the head was avoidable is not permitted.”

    Therefore, both hits are “illegal check(s) to the head” as defined by Rule 48.

  162. Stepan’s jaw was broken. Weise was dazed to the point of falling back down without Subban’s aid. I’m sure you can debate “main” all day, but the results speak for themselves.

  163. bull dog line on

    in college football they have a rule that if you target the head on a hit, it is 15 and you are tossed out of the game. here is the catch though, they review the hit to see if call is correct. so if the hit was not to the head the player is allowed back into the game. the penalty still stands because they don’t stop the game to review it. this makes it easier for the Refs to make those calls, knowing if they are wrong the player comes back in the game. the NHL should do the same thing. the Refs would make the calls on those hits more often. they would not be afraid to be wrong and toss a player out.

  164. Here is what doesn’t make sense to me about the “This “be aware” garbage needs to stop. Brassard shouldn’t be spinning 360 to make sure Mike Weaver isn’t going to blast him in the numbers well after a pass is gone” point of view.

    The guy possessing the puck should not have to worry immediately after releasing or losing the puck (or well after…which is how long btw?? .2 seconds…2 seconds…5 minutes?) about getting hit, but the guy trying to defend/stop him should immediately apply the “air brakes” at .1 seconds to avoid contact…really seems ridiculous to me.

  165. The Rangers need to get back to playing their game (speed, skill, smart plays) and stop trying to run around and get chippy with Montreal. I’m not saying they need to back down, but they are engaging in the chippy stuff, and to me it is affecting their game.

    I thought the powerplay, even though it only had that one goal, looked pretty good most of the night. Montreal doesn’t have our PP figured out. If we can stay out of the box and get some more PPs, this series will be over on Thursday.

    Regarding Staal – he hasn’t looked good to me this entire series. As someone mentioned above, he’s fallen in love with using his stick instead of taking the body on guys. He needs to close the gap and hit the opposing player. Plekanec’s goal last night should never have happened. He should have been on his keister looking up at the two D.

    Stepan – GREAT game last night. Showed guts coming back 3 days after surgery, and scores 2 goals to boot. I noticed that he doesn’t appear to have his jaw wired shut. I guess the plate they inserted is what is stabilizing the bone.

  166. Montreal’s fifth goal was the direct result of Boiler’s 4-4 rush but disappointing pull-string shot. (Right into the fluffiest part of the goalie’s breadbasket, like the string/cord on a kid’s Woody doll). Why do the Rangers seem to get do much satisfaction from those?

  167. The dumber thing is why are people arguing on the side of allowing the Prust hit and the Weaver hit and the Moore hit. Does that really add anything to the game? Players getting seriously and intentionally injured, outside of the course of play, would seemingly be something all fans can agree on disliking.

  168. Manny-O-War. King of Metal on

    So the Neil hit on Boyle: It’s about as “late” as J. Moore’s hit on Weise in that it’s probably .5 seconds or less.

    Boyle has his head down as he’s apparently trying to focus very hard on making a good clean pass ahead.

    Boyle should NEVER be hit in the head unless a guy leaps off the ice. He’s 6’7″ for crying out loud.

    The thing about the Neil hit is that, although Boyle is bending to pass, Neil throws his weight UP and through Boyle which connects with his head.

  169. Dear god, agree again, Bull Dog. Embrace technology, let Toronto correct calls (both ways) as applicable. I need to take a walk.

  170. Where the hell is ILB, I want a brain surgeon to tell me how quickly the computer in our brains (those of us that have a brain) registers things and sends messages to our bodies and then they react….

    Seems to me anything under the time it takes for that to happen is fair game so to speak.

  171. Manny-O-War. King of Metal on

    Prust hit on Stepan:

    That his is exceptionally late. Much later than the Neil hit. The second thing that strikes me is that Prust actually adjusts his direction to be sure he gets a good solid hit on Stepan. Prust leads with his shoulder and connects mainly with Stepan’s left shoulder. I think there is some incidental contact to Stepan’s jaw.

    So it’s LATE as anything but I don’t think it targeted the head.

  172. _The thing about the Neil hit is that, although Boyle is bending to pass, Neil throws his weight UP and through Boyle which connects with his head._

    … the same as Moore. Watch again, he’s working at a 45 degree plus angle upward.

    We like Moore, that’s great. His hit was dirty.

  173. Wicky … a looooooot quicker than you think. An MLB fastball goes pitcher to catcher in under a half second.

  174. (That’s part of my problem here. A half second seems like nothing until you think about all the things we can process and do in a half second.)

  175. Manny-O-War. King of Metal on

    It’s not about that, Doc. It’s about putting insane, narrow restrictions on how hockey has been played for over a hundred years.

    Here is the Moore hit on Weise:

    This hit is about as late as the Neil hit on Boyle. It’s barely late. Second, the main point of contact is not elbow/shoulder to head. It’s more that Moore’s back hit’s dale Weise high on his shoulder. Weise apparently doesn’t have his strap buckled so the bucket goes flying off in dramatic fashion.

    It’s a little late and possibly slightly dirty but I add in that it’s towards the end of the game and those two had been jawing the whole game. Also, that relationship goes back to 2011. I will post the Weise hit on Moore in a second.

  176. Mr D
    Your 11:38 is exactly the problem with this whole thing and why the nhl is not consistent…”but the results speak for themselves.”

    Everyone is penalizing the results not being consistent penalizing the hit which is causing the varying results.

  177. Manny-O-War. King of Metal on

    @swagelin HAHAHAHAHA

    That’s worth a chuckle!

  178. Wicky, I’d love penalizing the hit and ignoring the result, I think that would be the biggest possible step to wiping out a lot of the dirty play. My point is that it seems blind to even debate head contact when one guy’s jaw broke and one guy was out on his feet.

  179. Manny, at the same time you’re arguing “possibly slightly dirty” and that Weise had it coming. Part of the reason its so dirty is because we knew Weise had it coming. Doesn’t make it acceptable.

  180. Manny-O-War. King of Metal on

    The Weaver hit on Brassard is the least egregious of all of them. Brassard is in classic “admiring his pass” pose. He’s not paying attention to anything and Weaver is barely late and attempting to get through Brassard to get to the puck. He in no way hit’s Brassard in the head and in no way does anything dirty except a .4 second late bump.

  181. Doodie Machetto on

    Mister D, you remain incorrect. Please see my quote from Shanahan on the rule amendment. The application of the rule remains exactly the same. The wording changed, but the interpretation is 100% the same.

  182. Manny-O-War. King of Metal on

    Well do you want hitting in hockey or not, Doc? If you have hitting people are going to get hurt and people are going to get hit up high. Especially on a small sheet of ice, with 4 zebras taking up space and the game moving that quickly.

    That’s hockey.

    Drop the instigator and start punishing players for that crap. Fear is the best deterrent. Just ask Makaveli!

  183. Mr D
    Be afraid, because you and bull dog are agreeing with what I said in part of my 11:09.

    All three in agreement…I just saw Haley comet fly past a blue moon ;)

  184. Your quote by Shanahan says the opposite of what you’re arguing, that nicking a guy’s shoulder no longer makes a hit legal if the head is targeted.

    Again, if you think Moore was going upward to drill Weise’s shoulder, so be it. The rule was written to put more onus on the hitter to avoid head contact, something Moore very much did not do.

  185. _If you have hitting people are going to get hurt and people are going to get hit up high._

    .. and if people are getting hit up high, there should be punishment. The whole “accept the risk!” shouting from the couch is dumb. There is hitting in hockey. That doesn’t mean there needs to be head targeting and intent to injure.

  186. Doodie Machetto on

    Although, having looked at Moore’s hit a few more times, I think he’s got a problem with his angle of approach and upward hitting trajectory.

  187. Manny-O-War. King of Metal on

    Well, no offense, but we, the fans, and other people who aren’t actually IN the mind of the hitter, cannot possibly determine what the *intent* was.

    I just don’t think *MORE* rules make the game safer. I think they make it stupider. It’s hockey. People are going to get hurt. That happens.

  188. Doodie Machetto on

    You’re kidding, right?

    “There is no change to the rule…”

    They just changed the “principal point of contact” language because the competition committee found it confusing. The rule is enforced in exactly the same way as it was prior to the change.

  189. Bull dog
    Re your 11:25. Respectfully disagree, players don’t make those hits because they might get penalized, not because they feel they are “dirty”.

    Proof is in the pudding every game. Only team that says they are dirty is the receiving team and they know that if they squeal about it post game that it might affect the inconsistent judicial system in the nhl.

    Guys take numbers instead of just throwing them and go after each other all game…see Moops vs weise last game…not dirty, instigator rule hockey (yes there will still be hits that are controversial instigator or not, but far less IMHO with no instigator rule)

  190. Doodie Machetto on

    The more I look at it, the more it looks like he hit Weise in the head. Like squarely in the head.

    Prust I’ve seen 100 times. That’s not an illegal check to the head.

  191. Doodie Machetto on

    The CBC replay has an angle that NBC didn’t have. It doesn’t look very good for our boy.

  192. Doodie Machetto on

    Like I said before, if they’re bringing him onto the carpet for an illegal check to the head, and Stepan’s intereference drew 2, expect Moore to get at least 3.

  193. Manny-O-War. King of Metal on

    The league certainly didn’t think it was a hit to the head either, Doodie.

  194. I don’t think the intent is there, I just don’t.

    Guys going in for a hard hit contorting there bodies any way they can to get maximum force into the hit sometimes catch the head, don’t think headshot intent is there at all.

    I mean if a guy wants to intentionally go after the head, just go all mcsorely on them with their stick…now THAT was headshot intent.

  195. _I don’t think either was a check to the head, given the way the rule was written._

    Let’s go back to that quote, Doodie. Was it a hit to the head, was it not a hit to the head or does the written word make the head not hit?

  196. In my opinion, the hits are the same (or at least close enough), regardless of injury and point of contact.

    It bugs me how Canadiens fans are changing their tune.

  197. Manny-O-War. King of Metal on

    The only things that should be suspendable are the Bertuzzi, Torres, Kaleta, Cooke type hits. Those guys that just play recklessly and hurt people. They should only suspend the most egregious of hits. Other than that they should just let the players deal with it.


  198. Doodie – which link are you looking at? The CBC link you posted earlier seems to be the same angle as what I saw last night on NBC.

  199. _I don’t think the intent is there, I just don’t._

    I don’t think Moore is a dirty player and I’m sure he feels like a D over it today, probably even 10 seconds later. But he went late and high and it was a player who would logically be targeted. Good people can do dumb things. And, really, we’ve seen Moore kind of pop before, right?

  200. We all talk how calm and even keeled AV is, wouldn’t it be funny as hell if he dressed Bickel, mcilrath, and Haley in game 6 as the 4th line and just went all old time hockey everytime they were on the ice.

  201. BTW – I agree with you Doodie. It looks like a hit to the head to me. Certainly not an elbow like it was called – it was all shoulder. I thought Prust’s was a hit to the head to… when you are that high up on the “chest”, what’s the difference? The head still takes the blow.

  202. Manny-O-War. King of Metal on

    The only thing John Moore should feel poorly about is putting his team in a really tough spot.

  203. Doodie Machetto on

    I didn’t post the CBC video, but assuming we are looking at the same video, t’s the last replay on the CBC one, looking from an angle just over the glass. A camera (or possibly microphone) on the glass itself obstructs the view a little bit, but in the frames just past the obstruction, it looks like Moore’s shoulder making full contact with Weise’s head.

  204. Stranger Nation on

    Do they call charging anymore? That seems to be the penalty in both instances. The ‘head’ shots are tough to regulate because the players levels are changing; bending over to pass or protect themselves.

  205. Doodie Machetto on

    Mister D, it matters how they apply the rule. And they still apply it just as they did when the rule said targeting and principal point of contact.

  206. There, we can agree on that. The elbow call was likely guesswork when they considered the angles and results, but the general call was on point.

  207. Manny-O-War. King of Metal on

    That would be HYSTERICAL, Wicky. He should have done that last night!

  208. Matty"WhyNot!!"Boy on

    One of the other things Shanahahahahahahahahan pulled into his descriptions was ‘leaving the feet’ for a hit. Remember Hags did, and that, for that one moment, was a confirming issue.

    Did Moore leave his feet? NO!

  209. Doodie Machetto on

    Full body checks which result in some contact with the head will not be suspended under that rule. That’s why Prust wasn’t an illegal check to the head. Hell, that’s why the rule is phrased *Illegal* Check to the Head. If all checks to the head were illegal, it would just be called Check to the Head.

  210. Matty"WhyNot!!"Boy on

    Quintal: “I want to spin this wheel real good. I hate Les Rangeurs”

  211. Except, Doodie, as a lawyer I imagine you can see why they might choose to present it as “business as usual, we always have hated headshots”. I’ll take a strong change to the wording over Shanahan’s interview quote.

  212. Manny-O-War. King of Metal on

    I also agree with the idea of fining players for dives/embellishment (which is being discussed on NHL radio)

  213. Doodie Machetto on

    I can appreciate that, for sure, but it’s not like they don’t get to say that either way. They already had a rule to punish them.

  214. Manny-O-War. King of Metal on

    It is not free. But you can get a 30 day trial on Sirius XM radio, Doodie. That’s what I do during the playoffs.

  215. Matty"WhyNot!!"Boy on

    Sorry, there is NO way they let Moore’s hit go, sadly. It’ll be a game. It was national tv and everyone saw it. Too much publicity. Have to suspend him.

  216. Doodie Machetto on

    The thing that really disgusts me about the Plekanec embellishment was all of the theatrics AFTER it was called. Skating to his bench rubbing his face. Feigning shock when they pointed to him to go to the box. The “who me? WHY!?” look of incredulity on his face as they accused him.

    All of that even though there was absolutely no contact from St. Louis. What a piece of plekanec.

  217. The sad part to me is if the order was reversed, Moops hit would have been un penalized during the game and prust would have been given the major and the boot.

  218. “”bull dog line

    and losing this series would be on Hank. this is an important series for his legacy. he cannot lose to Tokarski.””

    I agree with this. That thought better be waking Lundqvist up, big time.

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