Rangers-Devils in review



1) Marc Staal. Boy, that sure as hell doesn’t look good for him, getting hit on the button like that by Reid Boucher’s shoulder or upper arm to the chin and reacting as if he knew right away that something was wrong, and then slamming his helmet on his way to the lockerroom, not to return. For a guy like him — a really good guy; not that it matters — to have been through what he’s been through the last few years, well, he deserves a better break this time. But a better break might not be happening for him. Plus, and I’m not alone in this, it sure looks as if he’d been having some trouble with his vision lately. He just looked lost defensively and with the puck. Had a chance early last night and just whiffed.New Jersey Devils v New York Rangers

2) The kicked-in goal. I’m not saying that Cam Janssen used a distinct kicking motion, though his skate did appear to be going forward. I just don’t understand any longer what is and what isn’t a kicking motion. I do know that the Rangers have been on the wrong end of pretty much every one of those kick-ins this season. Seriously. I haven’t a clue anymore what is or isn’t allowed or why. Much, much worse, the people in charge don’t seem to know.

3) Shortly after that goal they showed Stephane Matteau in the house, on the big video board, to the usual cheering. Then Toronto called down and disallowed the Matteau goal. As some pointed out last night, how remarkable is it that here’s Matteau, this long-retired semi-legend in street clothes, and yet there’s  Martin Brodeur still guarding the same net?

4) As a friend said in the pressbox, “It’s Cam Janssen. There’s no way he could have done it on purpose.” Having said that, Janssen has three goals, which is more than nine of the players in Rangers lineup have (not including goalies) and any of the three Rangers scratches.

5) And finally on that topic, Alain Vigneault cleverly answered the question about the kick-in ruling without getting himself in trouble, when he said he has “a friend” who says “they make it up as they go along.”

New Jersey Devils v New York Rangers6) It looked as if the Rangers were going to be in control of this game when Brad Richards scored on a really good shot, and Mats Zuccarello (who started the Richards goal by forcing a turnover) scored on Ryan Callahan’s rebound as Jaromir Jagr did his Robinson Cano coming back to the defensive zone.

7) And then … the Janssen goal, and some sloppiness. Dan Girardi made a brutal play on Jagr, after Dainius Zubrus picked Ryan McDonagh behind the net, on the Travis Zajac goal. Henrik Lundqvist needs to stop the Michael Ryder goal, even if he did school John Moore at the blue line — and Moore was playing in Staal’s spot, by the way.

8) Ryan Callahan had an interesting night. He had the assist, legit, on the Zuccarello goal. He had a quite uncomfortable assist off his, ahem, onions on the Chris Kreider tying goal, was slashed on right hand and in pain earlier, and took that careless, though certainly not intentional, penalty in overtime.

9) Chris (The) Kreider looked pretty darn good to me. J.T. Miller, too. Kreider is really blooming as a force physically and offensively, isn’t he? And, though it probably stinks either way, losing on a PPG in OT and getting a point because of a late tying goal like the one Kreider scored is a lot better than just blowing a 2-0 lead and losing 3-2 in regulation. FWIW.

10) The Rangers PP really did look good on all four chances, I thought. And has looked good most of this season. Just completely different than the last five or six years. New Jersey Devils v New York Rangers

11) What’s worse? The NFC East, the NBA’s Atlantic Division or the NHL’s Lesstropolitan Division. And with the seasons in 2013 by the  Yankees, Mets, Giants, Jets, Knicks, Nets, Islanders, Devils, Rangers, was last night’s game for temporary supremacy of mediocrity in the metropolitan area?

12) Such a proud day and night for Gary Bettman’s NHL, first with Philly cheap-shot artist Zac Rinaldo’s performance (:04 of ice time, 27 minutes worth of penalties) and then with the garbage that went on in Boston, with Pittsburgh’s James Neal and the B’s Shawn Thornton. You reap what you sow. Keep doling out three-game suspensions to these knuckleheads. Yeah, that’ll stop it. My friend Ken Campbell (@THNKenCampbell) tweeted: “Once again, good thing the game has guys like Shawn Thornton around to protect everyone from guys like Shawn Thornton.” I wonder, too, what Mr. Shanahan will think of Boucher’s hit on Staal. I didn’t see a decent replay, so I don’t know, but I do know that — like with kicked-in goals — you never know with these reviews and disciplinary decisions.

13) And numbskulls weren’t limited to on the ice. Some jackass shouted “Marty sucks!” during the moment of silence for Nelson Mandela. Not the worst I’ve heard at MSG. The night President Reagan was shot in the 1980s they had a moment of silent prayer before a game against the Flyers and a classless clown in the old blue seats hollered “They shoulda shot you Clarke!”

*****************************************New Jersey Devils v New York Rangers
My Three Rangers Stars:
1. Mats Zuccarello.
2. Chris Kreider.
3. Brad Richards.
Your poll vote for Three Rangers Stars:
1. Chris Kreider.
2. Mats Zuccarello.
3. tie, Ryan McDonagh and J.T. Miller.

Photos by Getty Images.

Twitter: @RangersReport.


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  1. Not sure that hit on Staal was dirty at all. Can’t believe the guy’s own brother ruined his career. He hasn’t been the same since then. The eye didn’t help, but Eric Staal ruined his career.

  2. Id say pretty much everyone here probably hates losing to the Devils more than Any other team in the league , maybe even more than the Islanders ..I know I do..
    Glad to see Jagr doing well … It just looks wrong having him in that Jersey..

  3. Too early to say, but with Staal possibly one head shot away from the end of his career, that might have been it. Sure hope not.

  4. not dancin larry on

    This team is just not that good. The 4th line has to be the bottom 4th line in the league. If its a checking line that doesn’t hit or score, why can’t we ha some changes there. Nothing to lose by doing that.

  5. not dancin larry on

    Why not let Bickel and Mcilrth play. What do w have to lose? Cant be that much from what we are seeing. Girardi? Moore? MDZ? really? have you been watching? NASH=OVERATED

  6. I tried telling ranger fans about Nash being overrated when the rumors were flying about getting him. Nash is good for a highlight goal here and there but disappears from game to game. This team stinks and it isn’t going to get better because there defense isn’t very good, Staal is done, Girardi was good because of tort’s system, the rangers have nobody in Hartford. Is it really worth resigning any of these players for more money next year. I don’t think so, darker days are coming.

  7. Great review as usual Carp…
    Gotta admit, I’m about done with the NHL. I can’t watch this crap night in and night out. Concussions are a nightly occurrence now. Players have zero respect for each other and I’m just sick of it. I don’t follow hockey to see guys like Emery assault other players, or Thorton, or Neal knee someone in the head. The NHL “product” has become a cheap made in China product. Between the assaults on the ice, the officiating and revolving “make it up as you go” rules…I’m just tired of it. It’s no longer enjoyable to watch a game.
    How can I raise my little guy to be a “fan” of this? I certainly wouldn’t want him acting like some of these players, or see what they do. It’s disgusting.
    Bettman, the NHL and the players association are a bunch of fools.

  8. Staal,
    I understand where you are coming from. as a hockey fan who has been watching a long time (since early 70’s), I can tell you it has always been like this. the officiating has always been like WWE referees. the league has always been clueless. is it a little worse now? yeah probably. yesterday was a very dark day for the NHL. we will see how they handle Thornton. I think it should be a minimum of 20 games. I suspect it will be 6. the problem is the NHL deep down likes that kind of stuff. if they didn’t, they would have taken care of it many years ago.

  9. I feel that all of these disallowed goals should be goals. If the player is not making an obvious attempt to kick or punt the puck or turning his skate to guide it in then let it count. We need more scoring anyway.

  10. the game is Hockey, not soccer. and its the inconsistency of the calls that bothers me. if Miller’s play against Philly early in the year is no goal, then Jannsen’s play last night is no goal.

  11. Bull Dog, been watching since the 60’s and kind of agree with what you’re saying.

    IMO, the “stuff” that goes on today isn’t even close to what went on in the 70’s when the Flyers “success” changed the way the game was played, the type of players teams developed and the way games were officiated (or not officiated) its not even close.

    But here is why it may seem to be worse: more teams, more games, more coverage (media, TV, Internet, Blogs, websites etc.) more review, more suspensions, more discipline, more head injuries.

    In the 70’s, the hit by Orpik on Ericson would probably have caused a bench clearing, all hands on deck, out of control brawl.

  12. This league has to go back to basics. They have to stop policing the players. They have to do away with the second ref system. They have to revert back to the rules that were in place prior to Bettman’s reign of terror. I am referring mostly to what happened in Boston last night. These types of bush-league plays (knees to the head, sucker punching a guy when he’s down – don’t care how sorry Thornton is) don’t happen in a pre-bettman reign. He can tout up and down how ratings are up and how their are new fans to the sport all he wants. What he can’t escape, besides the lockouts, are these types of situations…that, mind you, his rules were supposed to stop. When players can’t police themselves, this type of malarkey takes place.

    Regarding the hit on Staal: to me, it looked like a clean hit that was landed in an unfortunate way. I’m sure fans will be calling for a suspension and the league will probably look at it to see if he should be suspended. But it isn’t warranted.

    If Staal doesn’t get injured, who thinks he might have been trade fodder come the trade deadline? I think he would fetch a pretty price. I like the guy, but he isn’t what he once was. On that note, when is DZ getting the boot. Again, I like the guy but we need more consistent Offensive/Defensive Defensemen. McDonough can’t do it alone.

  13. You have to be able to protect a lead In this league. The Rangers defense looks improved at times but they still scramble and make poor decisions which I believe is more of a personnel issue not a system issue.
    That being said about the D, the whole team looked deflated after the Jannsen soccer goal after coming out sharp and they never recovered.

    That goal being allowed= Another classic league blunder. And speaking of league blunders, Bull, I agree w the 20 game minimum w Thornton. I can’t believe it could be any less when u consider what it makes the NHL look like with that stuff still happening present day. They’re screwing themselves if they go any less

  14. Nice review Carp. Hate losing to the Devils but at least there was that moment of excitement when they did tie it up.

    Not looking too good in our own barn so far. Eight more games on this home stand, yikes.

  15. Carp totally agree w #9. As for #13 I have to admit that while I have no tolerance for that kind of stupidity last night sounded as if there were a few fans in the building who weren’t there trying to square away a deal for Morgan Stanely. At least on tv it sounded that way

  16. The Orpick hit was hard and heavy, but looked clean. Thornton and Neal should get 15-20 games each. Oh, and the Rangers need a good shakeup on the team. Sitting Pyatt or Pouliot for a game is not doing it.

  17. Did not see the game but can’t believe that AV cannot get this team motivated for a division rival! I just saw Cam Jansen laughing on NHL tonight about his goal. He said ” They can’t take it away from me now can they?” Even he knew it was kicked in.

    I hate the Devils!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  18. Big picture anyone?

    Bigger, faster, stronger players in armor playing in same size rinks?

    More concussions due to more diligent medical analysis?
    Similar situations in other sports at every level for similar reasons.

    Excellent comments by posters on this thread especially the paucity of real talent at both the NHL and minors/prospects levels.

    Conclusion, this organization will remain a second tier one until the broom sweeps clean!

  19. Morning Boys!

    Too bad they did call up the Packs leading goal scorer! I like losing these games by 1 goal!

  20. In regards to Staal, It sucks. Best way to sum it up.
    You look at the injuries he has sustained to this point and you realize he probably isn’t going to have a very long career. I give him a lot of credit not just as a hockey fan but as someone who’s had to battle to get through physical issues to get where I’m going in life. I don’t think that was a dirty hit but you look at where he absorbed the impact and the way he threw his helmet and you know it isn’t good. You have to wonder what’s going to happen with him if he has another concussion issue on top of this vision problem which has obviously limited his capabilities no matter what he or anyone else says.
    Next season is the last year of his contract too and I hate to say it but I don’t see him as part of this team much longer even if he does make it back

  21. Diggler,, Orpik hit was clean?

    Erickson never played the puck and was blindsided. Orpik leaves his feet.

    Orpik is a dirty coward. Do a Google search on “Orpik hits………” Loaded with evidence that this guy is a headhunting, knee wrecking punk

    Imbedded is this article is a slow motion replay of Orpik hit on Erickson. Typical Orpik. If he got beat up a few times, he might show more respect for the game and the players who play it.


  22. Za'rat "The Other Guy's Greed" Jones on

    Thornton did the right thing under the circumstances of the game. If that was Crosby’s coconut getting kicked, Bettman would have given Thornton the congressional Medal of Honor 20 minutes later.

    Orpik deserved exactly what he got.

    IMO Thornton may gave prevented others from doing the same.

    It’s time Shanahan sends a message:
    Players (like Orpik) who take cheap shots and try to hide behind me, will no longer be protected by me or my suspensions!

    That was so cheap. Don’t these guys know there are cameras all over?

  23. Stranger Nation on

    See Dub – The Transformed arena is a hex. Another Dolan Folly that focuses more on the off ice cotton candy sales than the on ice product
    Very sad about Staal if he is indeed hurt again.
    Why is Gomer Pylon in the line up?
    The Kreider is a beast. Nash should watch him lay the lumber and emulate.
    Goalie controversy if Hank cant beat a team with more than AHL talent not including Janssen

  24. Za'rat "The Other Guy's Greed" Jones on

    My bad. I was talking about Neil. Not Orpik. I’m taking crazy pills

  25. Shannys response to this will be important going forward. I have low expectations because of the teams involved. Wouldn’t be surprised if we hear that The Office of Player Safety is closed for the holiday season…

  26. Papa, even though I agree with you on Orpik the stuff that took place last night has got to be stopped. What Thornton did was reminiscent to me of what Mcsorley did to Brashear years ago. It’s almost like some of these guys get to a point in their career where they just snap from years of playing in the muck.

  27. NHL is an absolute joke…either allow all goals off skate or disallow all of them. Obviously these idiots cannot interpret kicking rule correctly or consistently

  28. Thornton effed up big time. in hindsite, he should have went after Orpick like Matt Carkner went after Boyle in the playoffs 2 years ago.

  29. Good morning, boneheads!
    Good review, Carp! They didn’t deserve to win, and should feel lucky to get a point.

    I’m with Staal Wart. I felt nauseous watching all these highlights, and I see much worse at work every day, so it wasn’t my weak stomach. The NHL is getting exactly what it’s been asking for. And now they can’t seem to control it. They allow cheap shot artists to flourish in the league, injure hockey players. Teams are forced to hire their own cheap shot artists, and it goes on and on. How about this: Zach Rinaldo is making 3/4 million dollars at 23. His only skill? Exactly. Let’s expand some more, NHL. Add 2 more teams and dilute the talent.

  30. JR- “whether you’re dealing with goals or skulls you don’t want to use a distinct kicking motion”

  31. James, I watched the Boston Pittsburg game.

    Earlier in the game, after the hit on Erickson, Thorton challenged Orpik during the course of play. Orpik ran away and wanted no part of Thorton. If Orpik wants to hit players like Erickson when they are defenseless, he needs to answer the bell when another player calls him out.

    He’s a dirty coward, and a coward die a thousand deaths…..

  32. Realize this: it’s more business than it’s ever been. In 1991 there were only 2 players making just over $1M- Gretsky and Lemieux. These days- if your only skill is fighting and targeting someone’s head- you’re a millionaire. There are too many players of that ilk in the league fort them to be able to control it. Add to it more size, speed, larger equipment- you are looking at a pretty grim picture.

  33. If Kreici instead of Thornton challenged Orpik, he doesn’t run away, he fights.

    He fell victim of his own cowardice.

  34. Papa again, this isn’t a defense of Orpik and I agree with your assessment that these guys need to get what they dish out when they play like that but what happened last night cannot happen in this league in 2013.You can’t drop a guy to the ice and knock him out in front of crowd with children in it and nationally televised audience.

  35. Good review Carp. Last night’s game was rough to watch. You would think with the Devils having played the night before, the Rangers would have had the jump on them with fresher legs.

    Let’s not forget when the Rangers started the season the phrase ‘brutal road trip’ was bandied about as an excuse. Please come up with the corresponding term for this stretch at MSG….ie ‘Rangers squander first game of favorable home stand”.

    If Staal does indeed have a concussion I think he’d be smart to go the Crosby route and shut it down for a year. At this point in his career, there’s no reason to endanger his long term health for a middling team. I agree with the assessment that Staal has not been playing well, not sure what the reason is. Interestingly, in the AV Squad show broadcast before the game, Vigneault said McDonagh and Stralman have been the most dependable defensemen on the roster. I’ve argued that Stralman is good for the money but it’s problematic that the coach thinks he’s playing better than Girardi and Staal – it should be the other way around.

    Regarding Orpik, I think it’s somewhat of a bad break for Thorton. Not to excuse his behavior because I don’t think the league needs these kind of stunts but it looked to me like two rabbit punches with the glove on to Orpik and unfortunately he’s knocked out. We see that kind play every other game in a scrum but this time Orpik just happened to be on the ice first and has a glass jaw. Honestly, Orpik’s rung enough people’s bells with questionable, toeing the line hits that I don’t feel overly sorry for him. He should have stood up for himself earlier.

    I thought Neal’s play was far dirtier and am more interested to see what the suspension is for that.

  36. AV to Richie: “When, if ever, are you going to start playing full ice hockey?”

    Richie: “The boss told me don’t get injured.”

  37. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Great review, Carp.

    I was wondering what order you would discuss the 3 things that happened last night at MSG, and as usual, you did not let me down. The order of import was as I saw it, the game was tertiary. Items 1 and 2, the ‘glass jaw’ injury of Staal, who very, very sadly, could be nearing the end of his career here, and the ridiculous kicked in goal by Janssens. The latter, again, illustrating the lack of consistency in the officiating of the NHL.

    Thirdly, oh yea, there was a game somewhere, too.

  38. I can’t believe this is even going to be a conversation right now. It’s purely ignorance to think that the stuff that went on last night in that Boston/Pitt game is ok or justifiable. Maybe we get some satisfaction to see some players we can’t stand take their lumps but to see someone stretchered off the ice and take satisfaction is inhumane and disgusting. And if fans have that kind of view and opinion then maybe they should watch hockey game that are filmed in a barn in Ontario somewhere and then put on youtube because if the NHL is ever going to have a hope in hell of getting the attention or revenue of other sports then this stuff just can’t be.

  39. On the plus side: the boys got a point they had no business getting on a last second goal by a kid that has turned out to be quite a nice surprise.

  40. Manny sorry but I can’t muster any satisfaction after watching them blow a 2 goal lead against a team they were due against thanks to a kick from Pele and a play by John Moore that kids in peewees don’t botch.

  41. Mixed effort…team with better goalie (not by much) won again….Hank made some big saves….but two others..including the winner…looked stoppable. Good news is we should win the next game before losing again.

  42. Orpik hasn’t fought in like 3-4 seasons. I don’t like his hit on Ericsson, but there’s 4-5 of those per week. Any defense of Thornton is just mind blowing to me.

  43. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Not that the game mattered, where the Devils, once again, the smarter team as well as more physical? Did they just continue to play their style until the Rangers made mistakes? Yes, smarter system, more physical, Kenneth.

  44. Why not just make the rule “the skate can’t leave the ice on a goal”. Directed in safely is a goal, otherwise not.

  45. The NHL Tonight crew has Can Jansen on the air …

    “”we’re rooting for you”

    “Once it went in, there was no question.”

    What a bunch of no-talent clowns.

  46. I watched a lot of it too, Papa. The Orpik hit on Eriksson was clean. At most it’s an interference call. If Thornton wanted to jump him he should have done it immediately.

    The way he did it Looks terrible for the NHL. That’s my main concern.

  47. JJP: Your play by play of the “fight” forgot to mention the slewfoot take down to get Orpik down from behind. That alone was crazy dirty.

  48. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    So, I’d say that video replay would be a GOOD thing because this is a fast paced game. But if you have morons, like the ones in Toronto that check goals, what’s to say anything would be different?

    Just as Janssens goal would be allowed, Orphik’s hit on Ericcson could be interpreted any way you want to, as we have seen above from blog members.

  49. Although, it should be noted Thornton has a reputation as a clean tough guy (ask him) and he said he’s very, very sorry. So maybe sneaking up behind a guy who is already engaged, slewfooting him and then beating him unconscious on the ice really isn’t so bad. Maybe I’m the one overreacting and not being sympathetic enough to Thornton’s burden of being the guy who did that.

  50. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Thornton is a freaking thug. He admitted he was sent out there to “protect his player”.


    (By the way, Glen, who do we have on our team that can do that?)

  51. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Well, all this talk of teams with players brought in as tough guys to help protect their teammates has me feeling good that the ‘finesse’ players are, indeed ‘protected’ on some teams.

    Not ours, but some.

    Really, especially the BETTER teams.

  52. James, yes, Thornton should be suspended for a long time.

    He should have, in hind site, refused to let Orpik off the hook when he first confronted him earlier in the game. Instead, he should have attacked him like Matt Carkner attacked Boyle in the playoffs. He would have only gotten a 2 game suspension instead of the 20+ he’ll get now.

    My attitude – I’m done crying over the way the game is played and officiated. It useless. When I can’t take it no more, I’ll stop watching. If parents don’t like it, don’t let kids watch.

    I have zero expectations that this ‘stuff’ will ever be eliminated while there are players like Orpik who roam freely without having to answer for their acts of disrespect and cowardice towards other players.

  53. He slew footed him, and threw him on the ice. I’m not sure Orpik hasn’t already sustained head injury before Thornton punched him with his gloves on.

  54. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Well, so now, for a while, likely, we have a defense that is less ‘average’ than it was. Barring any trades (and we have so few chips anyway), we have journeymen in a few slots. Sorry, I know I’m tough, and Strahlman may have crossed from being a journeyman to a 5 or 6 in this league, but, really, alongside him is Faulk and Moore, to me, both 6’s at best, and MDZ, maybe a 5 or 6.

    So, we have 2 real defensemen:

    MacMonster (a serious player)
    Girardi — a 3 or 4 on a good team, at best.

    Holy Crap!! We have an awful defense, too!!

  55. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Henrik, “go carry this team on your back”.

    Seriously, that’s the one time Sather knew what he was saying. The rest of the team sucks so badly……..our only hope.

  56. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    If the league wanted to stop the head hits they could stop them.

    An automatic 10 game suspension for touching another player’s head might be the start, whether by accident of on purpose.

    An automatic 15, 20 game suspension for any check/hit to the head.

    That might stop it.

  57. I understand what you’re saying, Papa. I say similar things about Phaneuf all the time. Orpik should have dropped the gloves after that hit simply because _it was clean_ and he has to defend the way he plays. But he didn’t. I don’t know if he’s told by his coach to refuse to fight or if Bylsma said “we’re not going to get sucked into their rough stuff. No one fight them” but whatever the case, Thornton’s window for “retaliation” had closed.

    It’s so, so, so, so bad for the NHL. This is the stuff that makes it onto ESPN and other major Sports networks. This is the stuff we need to hide from the public if we want to keep the NHL the NHL.

  58. #12
    no one mentions in regards to theneal kneeing incident that marchand is on the ice because
    Cindy skated by and took the bruin out with a trip that was more like a slewfoot

  59. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    I’ll go out on a limb and say if I’m the coach, I change our style to a more defensive one. This level of defensive players, just can’t handle pinching and all the things necessary to play ‘up’, as well as get back.

    Was Moore’s mistake because of the expectations for the offensive style? Likely not. He just isn’t that good.

    Was Girardi’s ‘pirouette’ on the second goal, after MacD got picked by a much bigger player (that’s the one problem, even with MacD, is that he isn’t just a bit bigger), because of the offensive expectations? Probably not.

    But this level of defenseman is just not good enough (except MacD) to rush up ice.

    The only possibility is to pair up the ‘offensive style’ defensemen (MacD, Moore, MDZ) with a stay at home to limit the odd mans.

  60. Even in Boxing, if you intentionally pound on someone when he is down, you will likely suffer disqualification and forfeit the match, for starters, and, if egregious, wouldn’t be surprised if your purse is held up, which affects not only you, but your handlers and management. You, too, will be closely watched for any of the same in future matches and could lose your license.

  61. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    This blog is a microcosm of what the country is thinking now. No one here want’s to talk about the hockey game at MSG last night. Our local game. The focus is on the Boston/Pitt game and how gruesome it was.

    THAT is not good for the game.

  62. Stranger Nation on

    We have to stop looking at our D corps capability as the sole reason for this defensive lapses. If AV wants to D to join the rush and press, he needs the O to join the neutral zone and back-check as well.

    Last night every time Debbie was burning our D-man at blue line, he was gathering steam unimpeded in Neutral zone. (Watch video of Step on Ryder goal)

    AV is really putting a heavy onus on goalie and D if he is not holding forwards accountable for back checking.

    Let’s stop only blaming the D-men and Goalie. We held opponents to 2 goals or less in 3/4 of our games, but we want to replace 4 of the D-men.

  63. Stepan, though I like the kid, deserves a bunch of responsibility on that goal around Moore for lazy and ineffectual backchecking.

  64. A friend of mine was at the game last night, sitting right next to the NYR penalty box. She saw the entire Staal play and said that not only did he take a shot to the head by the shoulder, but that he also got kicked in the head while down on the ice. Wasn’t sure the kick was intentional, but add that to a shoulder and it doesn’t spell anything good for Staal. We have played Ovie well because we can throw out McD and Staal against hime, but if Staal is out tonight, which is almost certainly will be, it might be merry christmas Ovi with a great big bow wrapped around the newly transformed garden ice tonight.

  65. So if you throw a legal body check, you should have to get willingly punched by a player who exists solely for his ability to punch? C’mon. Orpik is no saint, not even close, and I’d love to see him pounded in a legit fight, but he did nothing (legally) wrong.

  66. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Nasty, I said that last night and am afraid to go tonight. I don’t believe it will be pretty. Ovie should sack a few.

    If we play this wide open style, our defensive players are not getting the support (Stranger, the correction) needed, AND they are simply not talented enough to do it all.

    Formula for a blowout.

  67. I will talk about last night’s game!

    Once again. Great start followed up by insufferable effort. Jumping out to a healthy lead only to suffer not a two but three goals. A lucky last second goal salvaged a point and our Capt., took a lazy and horrid penalty that completely cost us. Our goalie, the best in the world, let in not one, but two (!!!), completely unacceptable goals. The first goal, that turned the tide, was _clearly_ kicked in by Cam Janssen who laughed when they made the announcement on the ice and then joked after the game in a manner letting the fans know even HE admitted it was clearly kicked.

    What else? Oh! Our top notch, all star defenseman, was injured for the third time in his career and that could easily spell the end of his career. John Moore took his place, probably because of skating ability, and looked like he was taking lessons in “puck vs. man” confusion from Anton Stralman and got burned by Ryan Carter.

    What else……………………..

  68. Stranger Nation on

    _This blog is a microcosm of what the country is thinking now_

    matty – are you referring to the .03% of the US population that given a rat’s assen about hockey?

    Just watched replay – Orpik did not hurt himself going down – looks like first punch caught him square. How he is not defending himself by covering up is beyond me.

    For you youngsters, this is nothing compared to what happened every other game in the 70’s. Don’t get your panties in a bunch…

  69. Stranger is correct that our Offense needs to realize, and predict, what the Defenseman will be doing and need to cover. Especially the Center. Speaking of, Richards had some of the worst shifts I have ever seen him have last night. Stepan spent a good deal of time standing around in the defensive zone (right in the center) and Brassard, aside from some brilliant flashes, got lost in the corners. Dominic Moore tried hard but isn’t capable and Boyle, the few times he slid over to Center, was knocked down frequently.

  70. Cally’s penalty last night was absolutely stupid, but the completely unforced turnover by Stralman at that point in the game was completely uncalled for. I saw it happen and knew immediately it would lead to something awful, and it did. For the Devils to say that we got lucky bounces last night is completely laughable, and for their coach to be heard by a few different people leaving the ice and saying, “8 Million dollar goalie my ass,” is complete garbage. Win with class. Deboring is such a jackwagon.

  71. if Staal is out for any length of time, does the McIrath era begin? or do they bring up another finesse Dman like Conner Allen.

  72. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    ILB, @10:54

    THANK YOU FOR THAT ARTICLE!! Guys, go read it, everyone!!!! Very clear line of thinking.

    Thank you!!

  73. Stranger Nation on

    Papa – I don’t think the Orpik hit was dirty. Believe it falls in the category of ‘defenseless player’ but the puck was sliding under his stick 2 seconds before Orpik nailed him. If Ericsson actually controlled the puck, everyone would be saying great hit. If McIlrath did that I would be jumping off the couch cheering. (can’t use any current D as example for obvious reasons)

    Good clean hit followed by a ‘dirty’ retaliation which he should have been waiting for

    Thought the Neal hit was momre dangerous given knee on head shot.

  74. Orpik may be a dirty hitter but it’s the Thorton/ Emery’s that have me wanting to cancel my cable…

  75. Cally’s penalty was laziness. Torts had these guys playing far better than AV has. Accountability went to Vancouver with Torts.

    Now comes the trade from Sather that will be the beging of the end of the resurrected NYR.


  76. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Bulldog, surely you jest……

    Sather is working on it already………

    GILROY, part 3. OUR SAVIOR!!!!

  77. The only D who should be allowed to aggressively attack in the O zone are McD, Moore, and (maybe) DelZ. The rest of them should concentrate on getting back, and would it be too much to ask if a few forwards did the same, taking their man in transition? Richie?

  78. The kicked in goal, whether it was kicked in or not definitely was a momentum changer. We were getting some nice chances after Zucc scored. Even if that goal wasn’t allowed, it definitely stopped the momentum we had. Nash had a really nice chance that he missed on that would have made it 3-0. The loss last night would be easier to digest if we knew Staal was going to be alright. We don’t, and that makes it hurt so much more.

  79. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    cw, totally agree. Some misguided attempt to ‘shake it up’.

    Another trade of heart and soul for something lesser with no heart, and voila!! you have ripped apart the 2012 team.

    If I were to guess, something like (and this is a wicked step out on a limb) Girardi and Boyle to Montreal for whatever.

    The good news is we already have Pouilot and Dom Moore, so we can’t trade for them!!

  80. Stranger Nation on

    On the Zucc goal, Joe M called it a pass from Cally…uhm..OK Joe, he actually planned the rebound to go right to Zucc for a one timer.

    left hand side please

  81. How does Thorton knock a guy out with his gloves on? It must have been the slew foot (which i think we’re seeing a lot more of during games and is almost never called).

    as for orpik, i don’t know if it’s a penalty, but if you’re going to call these ridiculous chinsy interference plays, then you better start calling huge hits away from the puck. against the devils, for instance, boyles was called from a play in which he hit one of the devils defensemen who had just passed the puck.

    and only the nhl can come up with something as arbitrary as a “distinct kicking motion” rule. how about incidental contact with skate is ok. why is it not ok to kick the puck, but ok to glide into it?

  82. Caber!?

    Good morning, Sally!

    I admit, I thought Thornton was one of the more honorable tough guys before last night. Now he’s just another idiot goon.

  83. Stranger Nation on

    agree with the idea of ‘skate stays on ice’ then goal should be allowed.

    A conspiracy theorist may contemplate that NYR gets the shaft on these calls because the team makes money no matter what and the need to keep marginal franchises like the Derbils in the mix are much more important than the integrity of the game.

    Good thing no one here thinks the NHL would put money before the integrity of the game.

  84. I do laugh at a lot of comments on here and on Twitter though. You need to be realistic about this team. We are a slightly above mediocre team, which is exactly what our record indicates. Without more scoring, we are going to either win or lose a lot of these games. With Torts, and slightly bigger pads on Hank we won a lot of 1 goal games because of the defense first system. With AV, we are 50/50 because this team TRIES to do more offensively with a team that just doesn’t have the guns, which leads to turnovers and odd man rushes against. It is a more exciting style to watch, and the PP is definitely worlds better, but in the end it leaves us where we are. Middle of the pack and mediocre. If Staal is hurt, we won’t trading DelZ from a position of strength, so I don’t know if it is the best time to move him. Might have to try and tread water for a bit and hope that Staal isn’t going to lose a significant amount of time.

  85. Orpik hit was dirty. Typical for the cowardly player. I will never be swayed otherwise.

    Ericsson never played or touched the puck (PERIOD)

  86. Does all this stuff go back to that piece of carcillo Matt Cooke ending Marc Savard’s career? Ulf Samuelsson on Cam Neely?

  87. Stranger Nation on

    Over the last 4 seasons, other than the first 40 games of the 2011-2012 season and last April, the NYR has been a .500 hockey club.

    In 2011, Torts had a great camp, had these guys playing Playoff hockey in November and the rest of the league caught up in Feb and we have been average since.

    Stop blaming the jockey…

  88. JR – “It is under my assumption that a a skate should herein lay flat on the ice surface if it is to be considerate in the mandate of a goal.”

  89. Za'rat "The Other Guy's Greed" Jones on


    They used to allow kicking in a puck a while back. But when they started kicking the goalies “in attempt to kick the pick, by accident” they had to disallow it.

    I totally agree with it.

    Imagine it’s Game 2 in playoffs, we’re down by a goal in the 2nd period. A puck is laying in the crease and Hank is kicked in his head knocking him senseless and not even a penalty would be allowed to be called. Now the back up comes in and the series has changed dramatically.

  90. even if this club is only a .500 there are a lot of things to like. You have a stud young defenseman, possibly a stud winger, and a nice compliment of younger players. i’m not sure they’re as far away from being a decent team as people think. they sure do need a shutdown physical defenseman and some more scoring tho.

  91. I do not ever remember the NHL allowing a player to kick the puck in. when was this rule in place?

  92. @Za’rat “The Other Guy’s Greed” Jones

    I agree. No kicking. My point is I wouldn’t allow gliding in the puck either. It seems too arbitrary.


  94. I hate the Devils and everything about them.

    Did DeBoer really say that about Henrik? What a clown.

    Re: Thornton, I’m just waiting for Lemieux’s next letter to the NHL.

  95. Za'rat "The Other Guy's Greed" Jones on

    and for those blaming Hank for that OT goal, STOP!

    Look again. That shot came from far far away with traffic in front. The kid put it 6 inches inside the post and it lasered past everyone. Hank barely saw it. It was a bomb of a shot. Hank even got a piece of it. I wish I could say it was a lucky shot. But that’s this kids scouting report. Gelinas is 22. He’s got a big shot and even bigger body at 6’5. A converted left wing. And he’s gonna be a pain in our butts for a long long time.
    He did it to us in preseason at the pebble. That Merrill kid is big too. Both 2nd round picks. Ugh!!!!


  97. for those defending Hank on the OT goal STOP! that is twice he has been beaten from long range to lose a game. franchise goalies need to make those saves.

  98. Doodie Machetto on

    Who needs tickets to tonight’s game? Section 208, Row 2, seats 2 and 3. It’s considered a specialty row because it has expanded leg room. Face value of the tickets is $160 for the pair. Yours for only $120.

    E-mail dmachetto@yahoo.com if you are interested.

  99. iWicky "Frag Out!!!" on

    Don’t know if anyone posted this or not yet, and I’m don’t have time to go back and look, but I thought Staal was a little shaky after that terrible non call when Ryder boarded him in the first…looked like his jaw /face smashed right into the dasher.

    How was boyle’s hit on the hammer boarding and Ryder’s not???

    Great review carp!!

  100. “How was boyle’s hit on the hammer boarding and Ryder’s not???”

    Because Devils. How many cases of interference did the Devils commit over the course of the game that weren’t called? I’d say at least 50, most notably Zubrus behind the net on the second goal and Elias after the PP faceoff in OT.

  101. iWicky "Frag Out!!!" on

    No way the orpik hit was dirty, Erikson was watching the puck as it left his stick…don’t admire your passes

    Bob Mackenzie said it best on NHL tonight, it was a devastating hit by orpik who if you had to penalize it for something could maybe come up with a minor, but that is no reason he should have to fight someone out of his weight class for it.

    Paraphrasing a bit

  102. iWicky "Frag Out!!!" on

    Last nights game turned when our resident tough guy (Falk) after a minutes worth of battle with Elias wouldn’t drop the gloves with janssen (rightfully so, but a loss for Falk either way). Devils gained momentum after that.

    Also when we were pressuring the hell out of them in their zone after being up a couple of goals, we couldn’t put them away because all we wee doing was taking perimeter shots on fatso. Nobody going to the front of the net, dipsy doo non physical non malicious intent perimeter garbage.

  103. Wicky – not sure what you’re watching but someone posted a slow-motion link earlier of Orpik/Erikson, he never touched the puck…

  104. iWicky "Frag Out!!!" on

    I watched the nhl tonight replay, not slow mo.

    Ok, so 2 minute interference penalty, still no dirty in my book.

  105. iWicky "Frag Out!!!" on

    This is a bit different from Mackenzie’s interview last night on nhl network, but I agree with it

    “Orpik’s hit on Eriksson was hockey play, could’ve been minor for interference, but well within context of game action. Orpik shouldn’t necessarily be obliged to answer the bell to Thornton on that hit. It wasn’t that egregious.”

  106. I agree. In the pantheon of dirty hits, that one wasn’t that bad. But Orpik is still a borderline dirty player. We wouldn’t even be talking about this if he hadn’t gotten knocked out from one gloved punch.

  107. Stranger Nation on

    Ericsson didn’t touch puck but it slid under his stick a second before Orpik nailed him. Orpik didn’t leave feet, made a strong hit on a hockey play.

    If anything you would call charging for taking more than 3 strides prior to hitting the man. Call the rule book and this stuff doesn’t escalate.

    Charging is a penalty in ice hockey. Rule 42 of the NHL rulebook dictates that charging “shall mean the actions of a player or goalkeeper who, as a result of distance traveled, shall violently check an opponent in any manner.

  108. Deboer was right to say that about Lundqvist, true or not.

    Marty took less money to end his career in NJ.

  109. eddie eddie eddie on

    Born in Red Hook Brooklyn, in the year of who knows when, opened his eyes to the tune of an accordion….

  110. jay reimenschneider on

    This league is a wreck. Someone up above said it best. WWE. Oddly enough, the one penalty that seems to be called correctly 99.9% of the time… shooting the puck over the glass from the defensive end. It sure seems easier for these guys to get it right when the rule is clear. Unfortunately, I really think the NHL wants it the other way because it keeps marginal teams competing. If rules were as cut and dry as they should be, than refs wouldn’t be able to “control” the game and heaven forbid, bad teams might just always lose.

  111. Wicky©No one screens the goalie, no one gets to rebounds!!! on

    10 Ranger Forwards and their weights “generously” listed IMHO. That is why they can’t beat anyone who plays physical. 4 of those generously listed are in the “top 6” more often than not.

    Brassard is the biggest of the group and miller is the only other 200 pounder.

    Nash and kreider are legit over 200 and then your have pyatt and bole and that is it over 200 with boyle being the only other one (besides nash and kreider) consistently playing or in the line up…so only 35% of the forwards are over 200 lbs…pun intended but BIG problem (or lack of big problem)!!

  112. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    speak of WWE, sorry, as a fan of over 45 years, my feeling going into the game last night was that the league would bend over backwards to come to the rescue of NJ, whether it be on ice or…ugh…never thought of it…but off.

    The call the night before could have…maybe have…possibly…cost them a point…IF ….many things had happened. It was a bad call by an inexperienced ref.

    So, while I was expecting, the WWE, ‘even out the penalties’, ‘we made a call on that team, so time for one on this team’, I never expected that the call would come from Toronto.

    SORRY, there is no excuse for the clear kicking, while gliding, motion he used. None. What is the rule, at this point?

    I am not saying it affected the outcome (but it did), however, when will this league just stick to a rule????? He used a kicking motion. That’s not a goal. (Any questions, at this point, ask him and he will tell you).

  113. eddie eddie eddie on

    got two reasons why i cry away each lonely night, first one’s name is sweet ann marie, she’s my heart’s delight, the second one is prision babe….

  114. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Wickster @ 12:24, totally true.

    Been saying it since July.

    This team is a gross miscalculation of ‘expectation’ that speed and average skill sprinkled with ‘some non-playable tough’ size (Nash, Boyle, Pouillot, etc.) and mostly midgets (Hags, Zuccs, Cally, MDZ, etc, you know, the ‘highly touted ‘core” of great picks by Sather, all missing one ingredient =SIZE), and one emerging power forward (THE Kreider), will make for an ‘elite’ team.

    We have minimal talent in the AHL, to boot. But what talent we have is small, too. Great job!!!! This is 2013, not 1978.

    Couple it with a weak defense of mostly similar players, and it is comical that this version of the Rangers is presented by a guy with, 35? 40? years in the business. If this is the cherry on top of his career, the crowning moment, because he is in the land where he once said, “IF I had all the money in the world, like in NYC, I’d build a championship no problem”, it is just sad. Truly sad.

  115. Wick, pretty amazing how Ericksin was admiring a pass he never made or couldn’t of factually made due to the puck never being on his stick! LOL.

    Was it a pass from the grassy knoll?

  116. Happy 26th, Doodie. I think this is the fifth time you’ve turned 26 :-)

    Lost last night was the fact that JT Miller had a very solid game.

  117. Like to see how many would think it clean it everything was the same except Pittsburg was playing the Rangers and replace Erickson with Stepan or Zuccarello?

  118. About as clean as the terrain around an African watering hole after 7 consecutive days of Elephant herds drinking the water.

  119. Retire Brad Park's #2 on

    FWIW? Not much, Carp.

    This team teases, then makes it so easy to hate them. Crappy defense, three lines of third liners, and inconsistent goaltending (yeah, you, Hank).

    I hate reading the paper after losses, and there are plenty of them this year. It’s like we’re stuck on a hamster wheel of mediocrity.

    I’ve been watching the Rangers since 1968, travel far and wide to see them (including Sweden a few years ago, where, of course, they lost two) and other than a few flashes of hope, SOS.

    I’m not blaming Dolan, Sather, or anyone else. At some point the people on the ice have to play.

  120. Rob in Beantown on

    The NHL is exactly like the WWE. You have your faces (your Selannes, your Datsyuks) and you have your heels (your Cookes, your Torreses, your Thorntons). We are all the marks who eat it up and spend money to see it and spend our Sundays discussing it. The NHL will pretend it isn’t the case and they want to eliminate it, but this is exactly what they want. This is all part of the sports entertainment that is Gary Bettman’s National Hockey League. Even the call on the kicked in goal was right out of the Vince McMahon playbook. What a Micky Mouse amateur hour league this is that I inexplicably follow.

  121. Rob- you have it right. It’s time for NHL to decide what kind of product they want. At the moment it certainly appears their preference is Matt Cooke playing instead of Marc Savard.

  122. Thornton’s act of vengeance says all I need to know about the cleanliness of Orpiks hit.

    Doubt he would have responded like so to a clean hit.

    Orpiks a punk.

  123. Wicky is right. McKenzie said it best:

    @TSNBobMcKenzie 16h
    Summary judgments: 1. Orpik’s hit on Eriksson was hockey play, could’ve been minor for interference but well within context of game action.
    ?@TSNBobMcKenzie 16h
    2. Orpik shouldn’t necessarily be obliged to answer the bell to Thornton on THAT hit. It wasn’t that egregious.
    @TSNBobMcKenzie 16h
    3. Neal on Marchand may or may not have been sneaky dirty or accidentally on purpose but that’s for NHL Player Safety to determine.
    @TSNBobMcKenzie 16h
    4. Thornton will have no defence for taking down Orpik and even less for punching him while he was down and not prepared to defend himself.

  124. Matty, a brilliant analysis which might/should cease all discussion of this organization’s current and immediate future.

    Obviously it won’t because blogs are like having company over and rapping on any subject! (;)

    One of the best definitions of “average” I’ve heard is, “this is a team comprised of mainly JAGS”.”Just a Guy”,meaning of course nothing special.

    As an aside why all the angst about the oft time brutality of this and other sports?

    Fans love it, it enables them to live vicariously, intimidation does work both mentally and physically.

    You see it in numerous sports, anyone watch MMA lately, now this is truly organized mayhem and very profitable, mainly for the non combatants!

    One might say as in a famous movie, “this is the life we’ve chosen”, so the participants must live with the consequences.

    Otherwise enlarge the rinks or maybe play with only 4 plus the goalie or simply accept that risk is part of what you’ve chosen to do.

    No risk behavior will never be legislated or even pondered by the hierarchy, it’s man’s nature.

    And most profitable for the owners in sport’s that glorify it!

  125. “@TSNBobMcKenzie 16h
    3. Neal on Marchand may or may not have been sneaky dirty or accidentally on purpose but that’s for NHL Player Safety to determine.”

    Totally just lost respect for McKenzie with this. Come on, Bob. That was just as on purpose as Thornton on Orpik. The Penguins bias has permeated even further than I had previously thought.

  126. I appreciated Falk’s physicality around the crease and was pretty impressed, and happy, that the Ref’s let them play. Nothing wrong with that. But was similarly upset when he wouldn’t go with Janssen. At least get their 4th line broken up for 5 minutes. The line that kills this team. AGAIN AND AGAIN. We can’t hang in there against a 4th line.

    It’s a clear reason to me why we should get Mcllrath up here and have him play in those situations. Also, get Bickel up here. Remember when he fought Ryan Carter? And The Prust fought Janssen? Anyone?


  127. I, for one, *love* Bickel. Love the kid. LOVE HIM. He can definitely hang for 6-8 minutes a night and thus, should be up here IMMEDIATELY.

  128. I don’t think that’s what he’s saying, Latona. He said “Accidentally on purpose” it’s a clever wording saying he did it on purpose and whether he gets >5 or <5.

  129. Well, he’s definitely getting <5 because he only has a phone hearing. Secondly, why didn't he say Thornton's was "accidentally on purpose" then? Has to use cleverness to disguise disgusting Ice Chicken play but can admit to a dirty Bruin?

  130. 2. Orpik shouldn’t necessarily be obliged to answer the bell to Thornton on THAT hit. It wasn’t that egregious.?????

    Yeah right. The way a Orpik plays the game, he should have to answer many bells.

    But he never does. He’s a punk and a coward.

  131. Manny, “you love Bickel and McIllrath”, but they are not above average hockey players!

    Your reaction is the typical knee jerk one when someone on the Rangers gets hammered by an opponent.

    Your ire should be directed at those responsible for this unbalanced roster with limited talent, not at players who are in roles unsuited to their particular talents.

    One of the cardinal rules in assembling and coaching any team is, you simply don’t ask players to do what they’re incapable of doing!

    Wishing doesn’t make it so.

  132. Rob in Beantown on

    I don’t see why a guy should have to answer the bell after a clean hit or many clean hits, even if they’re hard hits. I mean, if he wants to go its one thing, but if we are talking about _clean hits_ I don’t see why there should be any obligation

  133. eddie eddie eddie on

    I married Isis on the fifth day of may, but I could not hold on to her very long…

  134. Manny, “in 6 to 8 minutes” Bickel will give up several scoring chances and take two dumb penalties.

    What don’t you see, if he or McIllrath were presumed by Sappy to be improvements.

    They would already be here!

  135. Bickel has proven that he can’t play even 3rd pair minutes at the NHL level and McIlrath showed in the preseason that he’s not ready. Get over the whole tough d-man thing, it’s a fallacy. You need guys who can play defense in today’s game.

  136. A hit to the head of a unsuspecting defenseless player who never touched the puck a play that ( according to McKenzie) “could have been a minor” (even though he left his feet? And the primary point of contact was the players head?) and resulted in said player leaving the game with injury (concussion).

    And Orpik should be ‘obliged to answer the bell’ for that play?

    What weed does McKenzie smoke?

    Ive always felt McKenzie’s was a borderline arse. Thanks for the confirmation.

  137. I completely and vehemently disagree. A D-Man who can at tough around the crease, a “Stay at Home” type guy, is endlessly valuable in the NHL.

  138. EdwardIII, while in some quarters “Isis” was known for her magic, she was equally known as a “Goddess of the Dead”.

    As it relates to the Rangers pick one! (;)

  139. Many illegal plays which end in suspension occur from events which occur “well within the context of game action”.

    What’s your point?

  140. eddie eddie eddie on

    Player X, 5 minute major for murder, the time of the penalty 12:23 of the first period

  141. I think we’re gonna start seeing more goals with the three top lines as they are constructed now, with no Poulet in the lineup. If you insist on having Pyatt in, leave him on the 4th line.

    However, a line with Pyatt, Boyle and Dorsett as the enforcer is quite laughable, at best.

  142. “One of the cardinal rules in assembling and coaching any team is, you simply don’t ask players to do what they’re incapable of doing!”

    I guess we should just stop asking this team to score and throw in the towel now.

  143. iWicky "Frag Out!!!" on

    Sorry, sometimes it’s difficult to take your posts seriously, but I’ll try…

    While having the benefit of a slow mo replay (which I stated earlier I did NOT), he did not apparently touch the puck. Ok fine, but he was from all accounts I have gleaned over this morning, trying to make a a play on the puck and missed, orpik didn’t miss with his clean hit. If you want to stretch it to interference or charging minor, ok we can pansify it.

    And if it was zuc or step that took that hot, I would also say it was clean and they needed to be aware of what’s going on.

    With your Thornton logic, obviously whatever roussel did he deserved to have Rinaldo do what he did and Rinaldo was in the right…

    Lay off the crack pipe so early in the morning sweetheart, you’ve got problems!!!

  144. Rob in Beantown on

    It looked like Erikkson was trying to play the puck. At worst it was poorly timed hit and should be a 2 minute interference penalty. I’m not convinced Orpik left his feet and he certainly didn’t launch himself at Erikkson. The result was unfortunate but I agree it was not an egregious play and not deserving of supplemental discipline.

  145. iWicky "Frag Out!!!" on

    Lol, he didn’t even leave his feet to make the hit, that’s like saying brassard left his feet to hit janssen in the first period last night when they both went into the boards…

    I’m glad I’m at work and don’t really have time to get into this fully because some of your truly have zippo understanding of the nuances and physics of hockey or the emotion involved.

  146. There is literally *nothing* wrong with the Orpik hit on Eriksson The Fragile.

    Pretty sure J. Moore proved last night that skating ability is not greater than physical ability when he tried to play the puck at the blue line and got heat.

    *Hands to the Chest*

  147. iWicky "Frag Out!!!" on

    Your 1:33 is spot on!!

    And if orpik (a hitter, something we lack) does throw a check and eriksson (sp?) goes by him and scored on a breakaway, orpik gets lambasted for not taking the body.

    Hitters hit, scorers score etc etc

  148. And I chuckle at all who have suddenly morphed Thornton from a serviceable 4th line tough guy (remember last year’s playoffs boys?) into the second coming of Tostito’s.

    Part of his job is to protect teammates from dirty plays and dirty players. He tried to do it the right way in the “context of game action” (The McKensie Rule) but Orpik metaphorically “turtled” and refused to man-up.

    Thornton made a big mistake and used poor judgement in the way he ultimately attacked Prpik. He should have used a frontal attack, not a slew foot and was wrong in punching the little cook while he was down. He’ll pay a heavy price for that error in judgment, but he’s no Tostito’s in my book.

  149. iWicky "Frag Out!!!" on

    Exactly, if orpik does a j Moops he’s getting lambasted, Moops should have hit him like orpik did instead of trying to play finesse and go for the puck.

  150. Since some people need a refresher course: hitting is allowed in hockey. As is fighting. Sometimes fights and hits, a part of the game, cause injuries. Although unfortunate injuries are a part of the game that all players sign up for when they sign their contract(s).

    Sometimes the rules preclude a certain type of hit or a certain type of fighting. But injuries and ugly incidents will continue to occur even if the rules are never broken.

  151. Amen, Wicky. That’s the one thing *Caber* still had at his advanced age. Hands to the Effing Chest! Physicality makes up for skating ability.

  152. You can skate and pass as pretty as you like but unless you can physically dominate another team, especially their bottom 6 and their defense you will not win a cup.

  153. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    I don’t like the ‘predatorial side’ of the Orpik hit on Ericsson. Lining a guy up, whether or not he ‘touches’ the puck is just not cool anymore.

    I think Orpik gets interference call, but the rules should be changed to allow for incidental hits only.

    Just too many guys, including Staal, getting smushed and concussed. Too many hurt.

  154. Thornton made a mistake but he has to have been pushed towards that choice by his coach who continually put him in a position to make that decision. Maybe coaches should bear some of the responsibility for stuff like that. I don’t know if I can go that far but I’m sure Claude Julien was pushing for retaliation of some sort.

    Also, they should remove the instigator penalty.

  155. Wick, I never have a difficult time deciding whether or not to take your posts as serious, if you get my ‘crack pipe’ drift. Never :)

  156. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    The league clearly doesn’t want an end to this. All you have to do is look at the rules and the way ‘Spin the Wheel’ Shanahahahahahahahahan doles out suspensions.

    In one swift kick, this could all be changed.

  157. iWicky "Frag Out!!!" on

    He did to orpik exactly what carkner did to Boyle (minus a slew foot). Boyle took a “un penalized” liberty with karlsson and carkner retaliated in a not “code worthy way”.

    I don’t think Thornton is a dirty player and I believe he, just like bertuzzi, let the emotion in an emotional game get the best of them. And just like bertuzzi I think he is extremely remorseful with what he did and wishes he could take it back. I also think that if a stretcher and injury doesn’t result, people are talking as much about it albeit still way out of line.

  158. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on


    Ah, how far the mighty have fallen. Sad.

  159. iWicky "Frag Out!!!" on

    If love to have orpik or a hitter or two like him on our team.

    I’d also take an enforcer like Thornton on our team.

    Both may not be playing for a while tho, especially Thornton.

    He deserves 25 games easily IMHO!

  160. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    So, Wicky, if a murderer kills someone and is remorseful, that makes it ok?

  161. iWicky "Frag Out!!!" on

    Depends on who he kills and why.

    Do murders in crimes of passion get reduced sentences?

  162. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Sorry, In THIS NHL, despite the eyes of the sports world on this, 5-10 games is all he sees, and I think 5-7 is it. You know, Orphik is actually moving and ok (no major injury) and Thornton is a ‘first time’ offender (how laughable is that??). Jeremy Jacobs special.

    My guess, 5-7.

    Neal, 2-3 (and that was a brutal attack, also)

  163. I am unsure that this has not been mentioned previously since I have not read through all 180+ comments but Staal also had his head “helped” into the glass behind the Rangers net by Ryder in the first period.

  164. Wick, you’re always working. Take some friggin time off dude. You can’t take those vacation days with you when you go!

  165. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Sorry, and it’s ok. I just disagree. It was a classless act. Slew footing RIGHT in front of the ref’s is a blatant statement about the lack of officiating integrity in the game. And then punching the guy when he is down? Twice, not once?

    Repent all you want. You’re Carkner, Cooke, , a thug. I don’t go for it, it’s just a cry for a lesser sentence, which he will get because of his owner, anyway.

  166. iWicky "Frag Out!!!" on

    Lol, not any more manny, I’m just a cog in the wheel of the American workforce.

  167. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Nealie, I didn’t see that. Thank you.

    When you have had a concussion, you know that feeling. Perhaps Staal’s play all along was showing he was not right all along. Very sad to see such a young guy like this.

  168. iWicky "Frag Out!!!" on

    I agree it was blatantly wrong (everyone knows how much I hate the slew foot, worst transgression in hockey IMHO), but I don’t think Thornton is in cooke’s class. A few more incidents like that from him and I might change my mind, but not at this point.

  169. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    I am going tonight. I don’t have a good feeling. We need no penalties against this incredible Washington PP. None.

    Wonder if anyone pulled Eric off the rafters?? Hope he is ok :))

    So much for a great home stand.

  170. “Slew footing RIGHT in front of the ref’s is a blatant statement about the lack of officiating integrity in the game”

    Good point, Matty.

  171. I’d be fine with all the goals if Miller’s had counted. When they disallowed that on, after calling it a goal on the ice, it’s skewed my view of all the others.

  172. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Papa, I agree with you. Starts with Mario, who faked everything, and whined a lot. Cindy started his career doing that, but has not been as bad, lately. But, as they, too, are not as big and bad as Boston, and lose each year in the PO’s to either them or someone lesser, they have developed these ‘cheap’ ways of defending themselves. The Neal slew foot, head shot. The Orphik cheap shots, the Cooke’s cheap stuff, etc. They’re not physically dominant, so they have to do it another way.

    A very cheap team.

    PLUS, they get away with more than the average team because of their ownership and his constant moaning.

    They get what they deserve, but it doesn’t make it right.

  173. Manny you’re argument about skating vs hitting is self defeating. Guess what? All the really physical, hard hitting guys you’d love to have on D – the Phaneufs, Webers, Orpiks, Schenns, Regehrs etc…. can all skate really well. That’s why they can put those hits on. Bickel can’t skate and if memory serves, McIlrath wasn’t too special either.

  174. Rob in Beantown on

    I agree Gravy. I haven’t really had a major problem with any of the kick calls until last night. Janssens goal counting is an absolute joke. I like Mister D’s solution he posted earlier: as long as the blade is on the ice the goal should be good. It would eliminate this whole kicking motion nonsense that changes from review to review.

    I’m sure that’s a no goal if it isn’t a 2-0 Rangers lead.

  175. “I’d be fine with all the goals if Miller’s had counted. When they disallowed that on, after calling it a goal on the ice, it’s skewed my view of all the others.”

    Especially because, IIRC, they OVERTURNED the call of goal on the ice, Gravy.

  176. eddie eddie eddie on

    Thornton was doing normal scrum activity….he gave Orpik slightly more than a face wash IMO. I saw it live and replayed it 20 times and I still can’t figure out how he got hurt…

  177. Rob, that’s not a bad suggestion by MD, since I guess the idea is to not have skate blades flying around.

  178. eddie eddie eddie on

    Toronto’s calls re: kicking the puck are very easy to understand….If a Ranger does it: NO GOAL….the opposition GOAL

  179. OrPik = Coward = dirty player = faker.

    He hit the ice and said, “it’s safer here, I think I’ll stay down awhile. Get me a stretcher, please.”

  180. Stranger Nation on

    Bickel-Boyle-Haley on 4th line please

    Anyone wNt to guess what our “compete” level will be on second game of backtoback

  181. “Thornton was doing normal scrum activity….he gave Orpik slightly more than a face wash IMO. I saw it live and replayed it 20 times and I still can’t figure out how he got hurt”

    Other than the slew foot, I agree, e3.

  182. Papa your views on Orpick-Thornton are spot-on. As a Dman when you step up like that you have a last second option not to to hit the guy as hard, it’s not like you lose awareness that the guy doesn’t have the puck. Anyone who thinks otherwise never played contact hockey.

    This was not a case of a payer having to answer for a devastating but clean hit which should not warrant the goon reaction it sometimes does in today’s NHL. It was a predatory, unnecessary hit, the kind if they rules don’t prevent, the players need to.

    In the old days maybe you make the hit anyway, but you are ready for what’s next. Orpick is the worst kind of player protected by the new rules and ironically is precisely the reason you see the kind of frontier justice that gets everyone squealing.

    Frankly I could care less if hockey becomes popular in the sun belt. I’m all for tough hitting, and for players to keep their heads up. But tough hits can be cowardly where it is unnecessary, or where you aren’t prepared to back it up. Where it’s a player that does this over and over eventually it catches up with you.

    Unfortunately Thornton did not just do a Carkner, he played it wrong. But the sentiment was right, it’s the only way some of these reckelss players learn.

  183. iWicky "Frag Out!!!" on

    Here’s the thing about playing D, does mobility help?? Absolutely, but it isn’t the only thing and you see d men not fleet of foot that play in the league and are highly sought after (ie crease clearing physical d men).

    Most bigger guys aren’t exactly great skaters, that is part of the trade off.

    Of course, you guys saying speed is the only thing that matters are the ones that say Boyle is a slow skater…for a big guy, Boyle is a pretty good skater…compared to hags is he fast, no but compared to most big men he skatest pretty well.

  184. With the head hits on Nash, Richards, Staal, It would have been nice to have a little Thornton-like attitude on this team.

  185. McKenzie reports from a source in Pittsburg that Sanahan is investigating the possibility that during the scrum, Thorton hit Orpik with a stun gun and it was NOT DONE “well within the context of game play”.

  186. JR – “Conditions are ripe for a snowfest the likes of which we have not endured since the Mayflower came onshore at Mount Plymouth.”

  187. I agree with some of what you’re saying Matteau. I do think the rules protect Orpik and others but I still don’t think Orpik’s hit was dirty at all.

    And yes. I would take Thornton on my team any day. I would trade for him today and suit him up post suspension.

  188. Carp…

    during the moment of silence I cranked up the volume and told my 15 year old son the listen for someone to yell something.

    Never fails!

  189. iWicky "Frag Out!!!" on

    I guess your shinny hockey err I mean contact hockey days were a bit different than mine, but at that speed reaction time is not even close to what you say it is especially if you are a contact initiating player.

    Now if you go into every potential hit situation thinking of any way you can avoid the actual hit, then you probably do have time (hell you are hoping for time) to avoid the hit.

    That isn’t how orpik plays, he’s a hitter like kronwall, Dustin brown, phanuef, etc and at those speeds, once he’s commited, nearly impossible to avoid, especially if the other player is in Pouliot land!

    If he doesn’t make the hit, he’s getting killed by everyone like j Moops if there is a breakaway or a score.

  190. Matteau @ 2:22, be careful. ………….. You may not know this, but around here there are a select few ( self-ordained few) who have played, coached, watched or understand the game and how it is intended to be played.

    We must all learn from the great few.

  191. This is from the article that ilb posted which, if nothing else, at least summarizes the events well:

    Seconds after Neal’s knee to Marchand’s head, Thornton got his chance to get Orpik. As Orpik stood in a group of officials and players, Thornton snuck up from behind and the side. He slew footed him, dropping him backward onto the ice. Then he shoved his head to the ice and landed two hard gloved punches – one to the face, one to the side of the head.

    Orpik was unconscious on the ice. He went off on a stretcher and went to the hospital with a concussion. It was sickening, even for Thornton.

    Just three days before, Thornton had been quoted about the code in an ESPN.com fighting package. “People could probably criticize that I’m a little too honorable, I suppose, in some instances,” Thornton told ESPN.com. “I’ve been a firm believer my whole life that what goes around comes around. If you’re one of those guys that suckers someone when they’re down or you go after somebody that doesn’t deserve it or isn’t the same category as you, that will come back to bite you at some point, too.”

  192. iWicky "Frag Out!!!" on

    So I disagree completely with your assessment.

    But the good news is there are euro leagues and non contact beer leagues for you to enjoy watching if you don’t understand or like hitting.

  193. iWicky "Frag Out!!!" on

    Good thing you are one of those all knowing papa!

    This place wouldn’t make it without your vast and knowledgable input!

    Pot meet kettle!

  194. Yup. I’m with Wicky. Hate the NHL? Check out the Swedish elite league! Tons of Christensen style hockey.

    Even worse, if Orpik attempts to pull up last millisecond on that hit he probably risks injuring himself and Eriksson.

  195. Yea. The J. Moore play is a clear example of why Orpik has to make that hit. If the puck doesn’t take a funny bounce that hit is replayed on NHL Top 10 hits of the week for days.

  196. Eddie Eddie Eddie on

    It turns out that Orpik was actually dead for almost 10 minutes….he entered the gates of hell where he was told “it’s not your time YET” but that “judgement cometh and ye right soon”

  197. Eddie Eddie Eddie on

    Wicky – papa : you two are actually in agreement on 99% of whatever it is your arguing about…..what exactly are your positions and what exactly are you disagreeing about????

  198. Za'rat "The Other Guy's Greed" Jones on

    Orpik hit looked legal to me in real time. It’s a fast contact game. These things happen. When a receiver in football goes for a pass cutting through the middle, he gets leveled. Sometimes the pass is over his head and he gets leveled anyway. It’s part of the game.

  199. Football is actually a really good comp for that hit and they’ve worked to eliminate it with the defenseless receiver rule. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should …

  200. Some need to learn how to read. All for hard hitting, heads up hockey. Hate the boarding calls where the victim turned his back on the hitter.

    There is also coward hockey where you hit to hurt when you don’t need to and you refuse to back it up.

    If you want to pretend to play at such high speed that you are “committed”….go ahead and make the hit. Just be prepared to back it up.

    The committed part is BS. if you think you can’t tell the guy doesn’t have the puck and you can’t take a little bit off the hit you don’t know what you are talking about.

  201. I guarantee you Orpick knew Ericsson never touched the puck. Even if it was for a split second it is enough time.

  202. In some situations, Matteau but it’s hard to tell that the puck went under his stick or over his stick instead of onto it.

    Agree with you on all else though.

  203. As someone mentioned, if the puck is there it’s a ‘great hockey hit’ by Orpik. Except it wasn’t and that’s what makes it borderline. If it was a d-man known for clean play, you’d give him the benefit of the doubt for making the hit.

    Orpik isn’t that guy though. He’s a master of the glide in, explode high on guys who are either vulnerable or have their heads down. Watch a highlight reel of his hits. It’s the type of play that you know it when you see it and those hits are always questionable because they’re high.

  204. Might as well bring up McUndertaker and team him with McD. McDonut carries his partner anyway no matter who he is.

  205. When you are a non-skating, talentless goon, paid a large sum of money mainly to fight and to “enforce,” it could be reasonably assumed that a jury very well might interpret a tacit malice aforethought in an egregious physical action wherein the perpetrator sends his victim to the hospital.

  206. -Whale- Wolf Pack getting killed with all their tough guys scratched:

    @WolfPackAHL: Period Recap (1st):
    Score: #HWP 0 – SPR 2
    SOG: HWP 11 – SPR 12
    Goals: SPR – Boyce, Collins

  207. Put him on the first pair, make him stay back, hit and defend, and let McD do the fancy work. Mac, with his speed and positioning, usually finds a way to get back even if he’s attacking in the slot.

  208. new tough guy Beach was in the box for pushing someone into his own goalie during that last goal.

    Missiaen did let in a very weak backhand shot though

  209. Maybe it was just me… thought the game last night was a badly played game between two bad teams. As for the “kicked in” goal- in Big Boy Hockey the goal should have to go in off your stick, period! No point complaining about the on ice officials when league can’t get calls right even when they can view the play repeatedly in slow motion.

  210. Rob in Beantown on

    My heart breaks for Staal. I didn’t see the game but if he really threw his helmet like that it is really really sad

  211. Manny, just returned from dinner and read an earlier post immediately after mine i.e. “Larry Brooks”.

    Is this more of your cryptic commentary that I’m supposed to understand?

    At this point in his illustrious career Brooks is simply picking up a paycheck.

    The irrefutable proof is of late he has actually said some complimentary things about Sappy!

    He has become the journalistic version of Fischler!

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