Rangers-Canucks in review


Thoughts:Vancouver Canucks v New York Rangers

1) Let’s get right to this. I know it’s a popular theory, and I’m sure you can find dozens of news stories today saying so, but it’s a fantasy that John Tortorella hated Chris Kreider, or held him down. Kreider himself says it’s not real. Said yesterday that he “wouldn’t have trusted himself” last season, especially playing on a bad ankle, and playing poorly. Nobody wanted Kreider out of college and into the pros sooner than Tortorella did. Nobody wanted a big kid with size and speed more. But Kreider was not ready last year … and, lest you forget, he was not ready at the beginning of this year. Alain Vigneault even said it yesterday: “Well, it’s not the same player that I saw in preseason,” Vigneault said. “I sent him to the minors. There wasn’t really much going on.”

2) That said, this Kreider is a different player and he’s here to stay, and he’s a factor in a lot of games. Needs to be a factor in more of them, because he still does struggle away from the puck sometimes. But, man, the kid’s got everything a coach could want in a player once he figures it all out. He’s still figuring. But there’s a lot going on now. (I meant, THE Kreider).

Vancouver Canucks v New York Rangers3) Calm Talbot. Let the goalie controversy begin. It’s not really one, not yet. But Vigneault said yesterday that Talbot could get consecutive starts, with Monday’s game. Vigneault’s made the decision, but wouldn’t announce it because he hadn’t told Henrik Lundqvist or Talbot yet. So, in that way, maybe he’s fueling a little controversy. Maybe it would be good for Lundqvist to be pushed, though normally he pushes himself pretty hard. Good for Talbot. He deserves to play more. I’m not sure yet that he’s going to be a No. 1 goalie in the NHL. But I don’t think he’s a flash in the pan. Too positionally sound and, well, Calm, to not be at least a good goalie.

4) Anyway, his first time playing at the Garden and he got a nice ovation of “Tal-bot, Tal-bot” for the first time after the 4-1 goal and again later. That goal broke his streak of three consecutive Saturdays without allowing a goal. See the post-game notes posted last night for some of the other accomplishments he has posted in seven starts of two or fewer goals allowed, six of those wins.

5) It was pretty vintage Tortorella when he went nuts on Alexander Edler after the horrible giveaway and first Kreider goal. Edler didn’t play the last seven-plus minutes of the period.Vancouver Canucks v New York Rangers

6) Also good for Michael Del Zotto, who was back in the lineup, back on his natural left side — perhaps in a showcase attempt? I don’t know that he played any better or worse, but he scored a big power play goal and that had to feel like a hat trick to him. He also escaped a potential injury on the somehow unpenalized head shot by Tom Tostitos. Brendan Shanahan was in the building. Wonder if anything will come of that. Also wonder if there’s anything to this: Rangers assistant GM Jeff Gorton was up in the press box area where the scouts usually sit. I don’t believe he usually sits up there.

7) That Mats Zuccarello-Dominic Moore-Carl Hagelin line looks like they made the other three lines, then had three guys left over and decided/had no choice but to put them together. But they did pretty well. Of course, all four lines did pretty well on this day.

8) Dan Girardi had some early tough shifts … he got hurt doing a snow angel, then broke his stick defending a 2-on-2 break. Then made the pass to nobody at the left point. Then got hit up high with a shot.

9) In a game filled with irony, there was Daniel Sedin blocking Girardi’s shot on the Rick Nash goal.

10) The Rangers power play got another pair, right in front of Tortorella and Mike Sullivan. Sully: “Just like we drew it up. Oh, wait.”

11) The Rangers needed a win like this. I’m not sure that they played great, but much better than most of the 3-2 road trip, I thought. The puck goes in, sometimes — as I’ve said many times — and the game looks a lot different. But it did appear that a lot of those who, Vigneault said, brought their “B-games” Friday, were a lot closer to “A” Saturday.Vancouver Canucks v New York Rangers

12) That said, Kreider pointed out that Vigneault — who was angry after the game in Boston, dropping an F bomb and slamming a door after his brief presser — helped fire up his team, not because it was playing his old team. “You see that passion,” Kreider said, “That’s the klind of passion you need to bring to the rink every day. I think a lot of guys felt that way after the game and you want that kind of fire after a loss like that.”

13) No idea how Brian Boyle got involved in a second fight in two days, but give him credit for showing up. Kevin Bieksa was hoping to get Kreider after Kreider roughed him up and took a penalty, at least that’s what it looked like Bieksa was saying to Kreider as he skated by the box and looked at the time remaining on the clock.

14) “I am going to coach this game, hopefully kick their asses and get outta here.” — Tortorella. Well, two out of three ain’t bad.

***********************************stick salute vs. van
My Three Rangers Stars:
1. Chris Kreider.
2. Cam Talbot.
3. Rick Nash.
Your poll vote for Three Rangers Stars:
1. Chris Kreider.
2. tie, Rick Nash.
2. tie, Cam Talbot.
Eddie, Eddie, Eddie’s Three Rangers Stars:
1. The Kreider: The kid still needs to learn the process, improve in all areas of the rink, and is far from ready for the NHL, but that was an impressive performance today and a big “up yours” to the Nucks coach.
2. McD: Excellent game today. I counted at least 4 nice poke checks on odd man rushes. He had his legs today and played a good hard physical game. Great rebound in less than 24 hours.
3. Tam Calbot: I know there are still plenty of doubters but this kid is really playing well. Square to the shooter and standing tall, Tam constantly challenged the Nucks offense.  Interesting sidebar, there were a few nice Tam clears that the Rangers weren’t ready for…This young man is no Henrik with the puck

1. The car seat: I think those straps are going to need tightening after the ride home. Torts was not happy.
2. Testito: What a tool. Hopefully, The Bickel will be called up when our boys travel west if only to pound him into submission…
3. MSG crowd: I was happy the former coach became their former coach, but he brought more excitement and passion to the Garden that we’ve seen in a long long time. That run to the ECF was terrific and Torts deserves a lot of the credit…

Photos by Getty Images.

Twitter: @rangersreport.


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  1. Great write up. I wish someone would have destroyed Doritos tho. I guess “who’s” gonna kick my you know what” was answered with the “take a look at the scoreboard” response.

    Beat Atlanta/winterpeg. String a few of these together..

  2. Would Boyle take some damb boxing lessons already,hes had plenty of time and im sure pushing,Remember Grecsner he became pretty sucessfull,

  3. Cross Check Charlie on

    What a great effort from The Kreider. He was dangerous the entire game. If he can duplicate the effort going forward he will be exactly what this team needs and we’ll see the puck in the net more often.

  4. #1 should go without saying, but all the anti-Torts fans refuse to believe Torts didn’t hate him.

    That being said, if Kreider denies this game didn’t give him an extra “pep in his step”, then I don’t believe him. I mean, you can’t argue with a hat trick!

  5. And I’ll say this, the Torterella mock chants were just dumb. Not surprising, since the Garden “faithful” come up with some of the dumbest chants.

    You’d think he coached five horrible years. I just didn’t get it, personally.

  6. Fifth! Hiccup. Nice writeup, Carp. Thanks! I missed this one, enjoyed the vivid and honest analysis. I have noticed from the start of the season that the Rangers seemed to have a man or two out of the plausible line combos…interesting observation on the Moore line.

  7. Good morning, boneheads!

    Great review, Carp! They needed this win, so did Vancouver. Except their defense was far from stellar. Edler’s giveaway, both Nash and Kreider at the net against 1 defender on 2nd goal, Nash standing all alone (they forgot about him Joe said) on his goal. Torts gas some work to do it seems.

    How about we give a little credit to Derek Dorsett who, again, was effective on PP last night and went after Tostitos with his still taped up, bad left wrist. Is it me, or did Tostitos and Kassian played every other shift at the end when the game was out of reach?

    MZA is their best passer by a good margin.

    Lastly, it could be a function of Rangers’ team speed improving this year, but does Brad Richards look like he lost a few steps, even comparing to last season? Or is he injured?

  8. You know, I have heard claims that Francoise Allaire is the best goaltending coach in the NHL. And he’s done a great job in Colorado (aside from not installing any character in VarLAmov or the organization surrounding the VarLAmov arrest).

    Well, his brother, Benoit, needs to get a huge pat on the back for his hard work with Cam Talbot. It has really paid off. As Carp said, he’s so positionally sound and that helps him make a lot of the blind saves through screens. Cam Talbot doesn’t guess.

  9. I’m with, ORR. The mocking chants for Tort are so stupid. Not only did the guy take the team to the ECF (with what everyone thinks is less talent) and build a youth movement that has made the NY Rangers more exciting, he didn’t abandon this organization. He was fired. So it’s not on him at all.

  10. Rob in Beantown on

    Nice review Carp. Hooray, we are good again!

    In other MSG hockey news, BU was outshot by Cornell 39 to 11 but managed to win 3-2. Talk about goaltending being the difference.

  11. Rob in Beantown on

    I don’t understand mocking Tortorella in the least, unless you’re a really nasty person that wants to taunt him for being fired and for being beaten in a regular season hockey game

  12. Nice review, as always Carp. Saturday afternoon was way more enjoyable than Friday afternoon.

    The hags, Moore and Zucc line I guess is our version of the legion of doom.

  13. This Metro North train derailment that just occurred in the Bronx is very scary. If any of you guys are traveling today I hope you have a safe commute.

  14. Overall a nice win, a big win that gives this team a boost. A win against a western conf team and their old coach. Hope it translates into some momentum.

    The need for someone besides dorsett to drop the mitts was made even more obvious yesterday though. Also if Pouliot is going to play under ten minutes, I would be fine giving those minutes to asham or Bickel.

  15. Pimp, when we didn’t hear from you during the game, I feared that you simply exploded from the excitement. Glad your okay.

  16. Is it at all possible that Sather/AV understand they have Bickel and Asham in the minors and will become part of the team once they decide what they are going to do with all of these forwards who contribute little each game like Brassard and Pouliot?

    It is painfully obvious this team lacks some muscle up front and could use some other players in the lineup who can at least fight.

    I haven’t watched many games this year, yet had the chance to watch yesterday’s and Friday’s game, and have a question. What’s going on with Ryan Callahan? Is he hurt? Because he doesn’t look involved nor get the minutes.

    Are Kreider and Nash the best players up front for this team?

    I think for the right player their aren’t too many untouchable players on this team outside of McD, Nash, Cally and Kreider.

  17. Is Haley hurt? Why is he not considered a replacement option on the 4th line? Bickel should be the 13th F and we need to make a trade for a power forward who can fight. Also, Call up Mcllrath and get J. Moore back in the lineup. Keep Falk in there. Bench Stralman.

    Me for GM.

  18. I guess Haley is injured. What happened to Hrivik being a 4th liner? Get Monster Mash back up here or something.

  19. Lindberg was supposedly a player with some size and grit but he’s coming from the Swedish Elite League so I doubt it.

  20. Stranger Nation on

    you knew AV wanted this game by making one move that allowed this all to happen…moving Richards to wing.

    Tam Calbot does such a great job handling puck…steering shots effortlessly to corners and out of harms way and passing it up the boards with authority. Makes it much easier to play D with a goalie who doesnt force unnecessay draws or cough up puck behing his own net.

    Pullout is working his way down the depth chart. Now on 4th line and if he cant drop em , time to finish the experiment and bring in Bickels or Mash or Assham or The Comet or, or, or

    Dom Moore played strong on puck, but MZA should be up with Brass and Cally. Hags seems a little lost so far.

  21. Lol, this is a blog chock full of GMs.

    Of course you know, the bench Stralsie part is where our paths diverge. Though we need more snarl back there, to me he is a reliable d man, which is, again to me, more important.

    I guess five years of torts has me still a little defense oriented.

  22. Alright, I don’t know. Haley is active according to The AHL website but he didn’t play yesterday for Hartford.

  23. I know, I know. I don’t like Stralman. To one dimensional to me. But whatever. It’s not a huge problem. Just a spot where I think we could slot in some toughness. But if we trade a D-Man and clear space….

  24. Stranger Nation on

    See dubb – on opening faceoff in game the camera showed players at center ice with Sam mentioning Richards at wing and then showed Torts who was smiling.

    Nash had to get away from him. Listen , would love the guy to play hard, hustle and be a solid forse for team, but he is a DH for the PP and on the point no less…

    Hopefully he doesnt go crying to Uncle Glennie. If up to me, would move Hags or MZA to play on the top 6. everyone wants to have 3 scoring lines on a team which doesnt have that top line talent. you end up diluting all 3 lines when you spread your 5 best offensive players across 9 spots

    need to continue this next game

  25. The move to the wing was pretty fascinating. Maloney picked up on it immediately and said something similar, Stranger. You’re in good company!

  26. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Stranger @ 9:18 and 9:33am, DEAD ON!!! Exactly.

    Dead wood, but he has to play. I noticed the move to left wing, too, and it is the game winner without the game. No more relying on this relic. Too slow, gets lucky points (for his next contract), doesn’t play any defense, doesn’t belong on this team. Thank you Uncle Glennie!

    Worse, when he plays center, he neutralizes whomever he plays with, INCLUDING Nash, who had a liberated, break out game!!!

  27. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Old horses get given to the Amish. Anyone headed down to Lancaster County, PA? I can get the van.

  28. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Yes, it seemed to me Torts had on Sestito’s, Kassian (boy, what a sorry waste of a draft pick he was), and Bieksa 80% of the last 5 minutes. Was he trying to protect the twins from our overly physical team????? I now MZA is a pretty imposing character.

    Seriously, it seemed he was a tad frustrated and they were there for a reason. Not cool.

  29. Maybe we can strap Richards to a carriage and help defer some of
    His contract cost by people paying to ride him around Central Park.

  30. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    If you believe that Uncle Glen and Dolan have something to do with hiring and firing AND the overall product on the ice during a game (tee shirt toss and all) THEN you have to be thinking………

    There was ABSOLUTELY NO nostalgic video, picture, or camera image of Tortorella put up on that new, transformed, MSG, state of the art, GARDENVISION during the game. Sorry, that was contrived. Not coincidence.

    They put up the most insignificant people and moments all the time. Insignificant actors, actresses, comedians, and the like that attend once, have their agent tell MSG and voila, they’r up on the screen!

    Now, you have one of the 6 coaches under Sather’s tenure that did so much with the youth movement, instilled pride in the logo, etc., and not even a mention, a peep, he was here. Hmmmmmm…………

    I remember when Renny came back. Neilson, Espo, Ron Low…….(there have been so many) ….ALL UP ON THE SCREEN FOR A ROUND OF APPLAUSE OR NOT. This guy? No? Hmmmmm……

    Classless. I am surprised. Classless.

  31. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    IF the Garden Exec’s had dared put Torts up on Gardenvision, it would have been interesting to see what the response would have been. Dunno.

    But not putting it up, and The Kreider scoring the first, second, and then the hattie, gave room for the boo birds that haven’t read Carp’s point 1 above to get active. So, they did.

    Really poorly done by MSG. Torts didn’t deserve the lack of recognition. One of our better coaches, like him or not, and one of the biggest accomplishments one of our coaches has ever had, given the lack of ability of that unskilled team 2 years ago.


  32. @BComptonNHL: Cam Talbot is the first #NYR goalie to win 6 consecutive decisions in his 1st year since Jim Henry won 7 in 1941-42.

  33. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Regardless of what the chants are at MSG, the moronic announcer somehow doesn’t know how to wait till they are over (in the rare case one starts). SO, he seems to wait till the crowd starts it’s own chant, like “Kreider! Kreider” and break it up with his booming, way too loud, stop any chant ever announcement of goal production (or anything else) that could have waited, if he had the common sense or direction.

    END RESULT: In the rare likelihood a ‘natural chant’ (i.e. one not started by ‘noise needed signs’ or an organist’s beat) IS started BY THE FANS (!!!) in the world’s quietest and most confused arena, it is thoroughly TROUNCED, stomped, and killed by the MSG announcer anyway. So the “kreider, Kreider” chant and most of the “Tort-o-rel-la” chants were destroyed by MSG.

    Confused arena.

  34. Nice write-up. Thanks Carp.
    Anti-stars? – lol. Let’s keep those to a minimum.
    Let’s end this roller coaster…time to put .500 in the rear view mirror. Let the goalie hunger games begin!

  35. Stranger Nation on

    Most interesting part of The Kreider situation is The Kreider himself being aware of his need to improve his D Zone play. Some great quotes by him after the game discussing areas he needs to get better at. Great stuff.

    While he must have been jazzed playing against Torts, he must have been ecstatic playing with Nash. Almost seems like Step was along for the ride.

    While MZA is a great passer, that pass by Nash on the first goalie was a beaut – he caught The Kreider in stride and the kid ripped his wrister

  36. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Yes, the players seem more comfortable playing for Cam. There is a sense of calm that is not there with Henrik, for now.

    He covers a large part of the net, and is trained on the puck. HIs glove is ok.

    I DID think that goal 1 was stoppable just by a poke check after the usual Staal mistake, and I was right where it happened.

    But, this kid deserves back to back games and I smell one coming up.

  37. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Stranger, let’s see if Step ends up between them, or Brassard, BUT the match up of Kreider and Nash, 2 big, talented power forwards, one of them playing the unnatural RW, is here to stay!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Those 2 will develop chemistry between themselves, now that baby Kreider is awakening and morphing into a man.

    Truly remarkable to watch.

  38. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Kreider will improve in all areas. He is just a kid. He sure seems to have a head on his shoulders and OMG tons of talent.

    Yesterday, against a non-Bruins team, he had so much open space, created more. Could have had 8-10 shots on goal and was such a force on offense. With Nash on his RW, as they learn each others moves he will get more space opened. Could be our first real first line since ’93-5.

  39. Kreider is leading the team at +8.

    Not bad considering he gets a lot of his points on the PP.

    When the puck comes up his wing, he clears the zone as well if not better than any other forward on the team.

  40. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    So, in essence, this team can beat most any of the non-elite teams in the league. The elite teams are teams that are characterized by skill, speed, AND size. We have speed, a bit of skill and…… bah-dump-ah……no size.

    So, this team, as it is constituted can be a .500 or a little higher. But, will struggle against the league’s best, which happen to be the bigger teams. You know, teams like the ‘Lurch and Igor’ Bruins.

    Go figure.

    And what is our GM doing about this?

  41. In regards to point #1, while I don’t doubt it, I believe Torts’ stubborn system wouldn’t have allowed for Kreider to flourish and make learning mistakes.

    I agree, though, that Torts deserved an ovation. Until we win a cup, that 2011-12 will always go down as my favorite Rangers season I’ve ever experienced (I was a little too young to fully appreciate 93-94).

  42. Kreider’s reading the play and coverage when he is third man high or the first forward on the back check, has improved significantly since his recall. Night and day from last year.

  43. Despite knowing the odds are near 0%, the holiday travel + fact it was leaving poughkeepsie makes me a little nervous.

  44. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Except for one or two matador plays, Strahlman had a SMART game, and he is ok with his offensive starts. He is, for all intent and purpose, an ok FA pick up.

  45. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Anyone checked our upcoming schedule???? Our biggest trip over the next few weeks is to Buffalo, for one game.

    The next 10 of 11 games are HOME!!!!!!!!!! A number of beatable teams, to boot.

    Would be nice to be more than .500 after that!!!!!!

  46. Agreed, Matty. For a street free agent, he’s been really good. The mistake would be treating him as more than that and offering a legit 2nd pair contract.

    (I can never tell when Ken is serious, but Nash for Pac would be just as wonderful today as a few days ago.)

  47. jimG the desertrat on

    Aah Carp the calm voice of reason. Great win. This team is a roller coaster ride for sure!

  48. Carp,
    you go to the AV sent Kreider down too well very often. here is the difference in the two. when AV brought Kreider back, he played him. he put him in a position to succeed. put him in the top 6, plays on the power play, and most important, does not bench him for every perceived mistake he makes.

  49. bull, I’m not saying Torts was right or wrong. Just saying he didn’t hate the kid or try to hold him down. And that kid last year was not this kid this year.

  50. We could use a couple of big, bone crushing, puck moving DMen who can shoot it from the point and a Center or two with size, speed, hands and face-off competence.

  51. Carp is waaay too knowledgeable and logical for this blog. It’s not fair, and it’s un-American!

  52. Too many teams, too many ordinary players. Like a nice single malt scotch drowned by a melting iceberg.

  53. @rangersreport

    My story on Cam Talbot and the goalie “controversy” from The Journal News/Lohud.com. tinyurl.com/qhvn478

  54. Carp, not necessarily.

    Preferably, 2 DMen to play in the top 4.

    Centers could play anywhere, as long as they have size, skill, and face-off competence. At forward, the team is too small down the middle.

  55. i kid, Papa. Point being — those guys aren’t available, and if they were, the price would be steep. And if you got one of them you’d have to be pretty darn happy.

  56. Give Boyle credit for showing up? He doesn’t get any credit from me. He’s pretty embarrassing out there when he attempts to use his size. We all love his PK ability and he’s great in the room, but he needs to go up to Thunder Bay for a couple weeks and visit with Kelly Youngblood and/or Racki from the Bombers – teach this Sasquatch how to fight (totally serious about this).

  57. Ken Dryden was great on hockey Night Live. I plan on reading the new edition of ‘The Game.’

  58. ‘I want a Sunday kind of love,
    A love to last past Saturday night;
    I’d like to know its more than love at first sight
    I want a Sunday kind of love.’

  59. Sather Must Go, on

    Win was okay… The worst thing is, as it was obvious before, the team’s lack toughness is being exploited by other/all teams we play..even smaller opponnets…teams keep taking runs at our dmen and small forwards, and there is no solution to this…only a matter of time before someone gets BRich for a season ending concussion and yrs of salary cap agita…

    Also, can’t help but think Kriders hockey and general IQ are far below his talent level..

  60. Carp @11:43…. I was more just offering my opinion on what it would take to put us in with the elite, Cup contending teams. Not necessarily being realistic.

    However, probably, there will be players who will become available during the season the team can add to help it get bigger down the middle without sacrificing skill level. And I also think we will be able to add at least 1 defensman who would be an upgrade over Girardi, Staal or Stralman.

  61. Tell you another thing. Bieksa clearly should have gotten an instigator, which would have meant a suspension for instigating a fight in the final minutes. Refs need to be more aware on stuff like that.

  62. never understand fans knocking a player for dropping the gloves and not doing well in the fight. Boyle did just fine. had the guts to go.

  63. Plus, while he’s fighting he’s really just trying to not get punched in the head — job No. 1 — because of his concussion history.

  64. Carp,
    are you hearing any rumblings that the Rangers think McIlrath may be ready? they could really use his style of Dman.

  65. I believe that some of the Canucks were irate with Kreider for what they thought was a slew-foot on his tripping penalty, and a punch that aggravated Bieksa on his roughing penalty.

  66. Boyler will always stick in his nose to defend teammates. He seems to offer some very demeaning remarks.

  67. Carp, just telling it how it is. Even Sam thinks Boyle needs some boxing lessons. Think about how much more effective he would be if he could fight.

    I bet you when the cameras are off, he’s taking a beating in the locker room from his teammates – even the little itialian kid from norway getting some shots in on him after that performance.

  68. Carp, like to hear your thoughts on this. I found it very interesting but not surprising the Bieska was looking for Kreider late.

    Do you agree that Kreider, with the way he now plays (smash mouth power and physical game) will have to drop his gloves, probably sooner rather than later? So far, he’s been able to decline or the scrum was policed the refs or teamates before the gloves came off. They’ll come a point when declining will no longer be an option and he will need to go.

  69. Saw rod Gilbert and Gresch downstairs before game time…man does Gresch look bloated. Is he sick in some way?

    Slats just announced the pickup of two goons from the Bedford Bears, who dominated the ice after the first period

  70. My friends and I am mock each other about nearly everything, but I would have to think sticking up for me and getting beaten would be something I let go.

  71. And if he’s afraid to get hit in the head playing hockey for fear of concussion, he needs to hang em up.

  72. I don’t disagree that he’s a horrible fighter, Billy. He is and he knows it. And I’m sure he does take some kidding. But teammates never keep score of W’s and L’s. They appreciate, very much, guys who show up. Prust lost tons of fights. Dorsett loses tons of fights (though I forgot to laud him for landing a few on Tostitos). Teammates love that they showed up.

  73. Yes, Papa. I think he knows that too. He will drop them. Just hope it’s not against a Bieksa. Or maybe he’ll surprise us like Sauer and J.Moore have.

  74. I like the unexpected lefts that Ash and Dors employ against behemoths. To fight effectively, you have to have a willingness to take one (or three) to land one mentality.

  75. Having not watched on TV, I wasn’t aware of Tostitos taunting the bench … If I was, I might have given Dorsett one of my stars.

  76. Bull dog @ 11:58 , I completely agree. Boyle is as a much a fighter as Carl Hagelin is. Yet, when he does, he gets ridiculed and berated for not winning?


    The guy has courage.

    And Carp, It’s nice of you to rebut that opinion by adding a first hand observation and impression of how you feel his teammates responded to his willingness. That’s great stuff.

  77. Morning Boys!!!

    Torts wanted and gave THE KREIDER & MILLER all kinds of chances to succeed.

    Nice to see him put it all together in front of him.

  78. Dorsett is a warrior, he’s not afraid and when he does scrum, he gives it his all. Not saying that Boyle is not a good teammate (my first comment points out that he’s great in “the room”). All I’m saying is that if you’re gonna stick up for your teammates via a fight, don’t go into it trying “not to get hit”

  79. In case you guys are wondering,
    I absolutely dominated Thanksgiving this year. Crushed it like Shaq’s wife

  80. And like all of Papa’s conjectures except when he makes me very jealous with his Mercedes, summer house on the shore, and his trips to the Keys.

  81. Sather Must Go, on

    Dom Moore roster spot sold have been used for some toughness..given the make-upmof the roster, even a mcgrattan (not a fan of “goons”, but look at the roster and what is happening)…once again, pyatt is a disgrace…give Dorsett some of his size.

  82. Every time a player drops his gloves, he is risking his livelihood, usually for the good of the team.

    iMO, That’s what separates Hockey from the other team sports. Risking your own well being, your ability to earn a living in the interest of team unity and the one for all and all for one spirit de corp.


  83. Sort of interesting: We lead the AHL in fights and the gap to 2nd is the same as the gap from 2nd to 7th.

  84. THE KREIDER on quest for the CALDER.

    He should send Torts a Thank You card for keeping him eligible this year, playing him less than 25 games last year. (Notice Miller played 26 and is not eligible)

    If he has a couple more games like yesterday, you have to put him into consideration 16 pts in 20 games vs Hertl’s 21 pts in 26 games. If he can out gun Hertl in less games you would have to give the kid the Calder right?

    Hertl leads the Sharks with 13 goals, (6 goals ahead of our leader Richie Rich).

    Can THE KREIDER catch him?

  85. If you’re afraid of getting punched in the face, don’t fight! Especially with a history of concussions. I’m sure his teammates would tell him that as they don’t want to see the guy hurt. Admirable, but foolish.

  86. Guy near me at yesterday’s game wearing goofy ski hat and scarf, screaming Go Canucks Go even down 5-1

    Maybe a Willowbrook escapee?

  87. Boyle is not instigating fighting, he’s trying to protect himself from goonies best he can. When you’re jumped, you’re jumped.

  88. And on teams that lack the selfless, team first DNA, success is often witnessed but seldom experienced.

    The Stanley Cup Playoffs, the greatest endurance test in all of team sports. ….Last team standing has earned that prize with selfless play, and a team first, one for all and all for one group of players. iMO, Nothing compares.

  89. Coos, thanks for the kind words from up there North in God’s Country. Truth is, I probably couldn’t afford to pay your property tax! ;)

  90. Just imagine if Boyle took some boxing lessens. He would be a beast if he could through them.

  91. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    Nothing even remotely interesting about that.

    We should trade Nash for Pacioretty, to save cap space. That would qualify as interesting.

  92. I love Boyle. But I will lovingly refer to him as Michael Jackson now because of him keeping one glove on.

  93. eddie eddie eddie on

    Airplane on the runway: Torts tucked into his plane-seat

    Torts – “Where’s the ******* stewardess? I want some ******* apple juice in my ******* sippy cup, And I ******* want it right ******* now”

  94. eddie eddie eddie on

    Torts – “When is this ******* plane going to ******* take the **** off? Somebody strap me the **** in!! I can’t reach the ******* light button. Hey turn my ******* light on. I said turn my ******* light on NOW”

  95. eddie eddie eddie on

    Torts – “I ******* have to ******* potty, Unstrap me outta this ******* plane seat before I ******* wet my ******* diaper pants. I am ******* going to kick some ******* assen. Ah, **** it, I’ll Just pee in my ******* diaper”

  96. I didn’t think the renovated Garden was so special

    In fact I thought it was a pain in the asham that there weren’t more aisles

  97. Boyle has a long awful history of getting jumped. That’s why he and Holtby are being enrolled in mandatory self-defense courses this off-season.

  98. eddie eddie eddie on

    torts – “hey Sully, change my ******* diaper pants before I ******* fire your ******* assen”

  99. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Whoa, Billy. Just whoa!!

    You must be one of the vocal minority that holds a grudge vs. Boyler for not being an offensive force. True, he doesn’t put points on the board, but he uses his BIG body for a lot more. He is our best percentage face off center (amazingly better than even, Rocket Richards), he is one of our most steady PK players, and he, and his line mates usually play the scrappy role of sending the puck in deep and keeping it along the boards, tiring out the ‘d’ and diminishing the oppositions offensive chances.

    Nope, none of that shows up on the score sheets. So, for people that don’t know enough to or don’t value these very important traits, his point total renders him ‘ineffective’.

    Reality has it, he lends value to the team. Solid value.

  100. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Of the low priced players:

    Boyle $1.7M
    Poullet $1.3M
    Richards $6M plus many, many signing bonuses
    Moore $1.0M
    Pyatt $1.55M
    Zuccs $1.15M

    Who is worth their pay?

    I’ll take Boyle’s contribution to this team, any day.

  101. Stranger Nation on

    Putting a heavyweight who can check on with Olive Boyle and Dorsett will make that line very hard to play against.

    If Pyatt could fight, fans would care less about his slow wheels. But he doesnt score, cant skate, and wont fight.

    Pyatt, Powe, Pullout, and bag of pucks for a heavyweight please.

  102. Pyatt is one dimensional. He’s good at that dimension. But that’s it.

    Also, I kind of agree with Tort about Hagelin on the PP. He’s a jitterbug.

  103. “Refs need to be more aware on stuff like that.”

    CARP, the “on stuff like that” part is unnecessary.

  104. The Doctor, that sounds like our 2011-2012 team. And I don’t desire fighting or any of that junk. But it’s telling about backing up your teammates and etc.

  105. eddie eddie eddie on

    Torts – “How do I ******* slide my ******* seat back?. I need a ******* nap”

  106. I’m in no way surprised there wasn’t a Tortorella tribute. Frankly, I found him to be very unprofessional throughout his entire stint with the Rangers, particularly with the media. He also seemed to be abrasive to just about every one who dealt with him. I wouldn’t be at all shocked to hear that he was less than helpful with the people who develop MSG programming and they returned the favor ‘we’re not going to put a tribute together for a guy who made our job more difficult’. Whether it was classy or not, is probably side with not classy but I get it.

  107. Carp – is Del Zotto still on the trading block?

    What do you think we would get in return? So far I haven’t seen the names I would like. What are your thoughts?

  108. I’ll stand in defense of Boyler fighting. At least someone has the guts to stick up for a teammate and involve themselves. That trait has been missing in 98% of the players to wear a NY jersey since the Kocur/Langdon era.

    Everyone forgets their precious Prust took his lumps on occasion but was credited for having the guts to go whether it was his bad hand, against a guy twice his size etc.
    Boyle gets criticized often around here. If someone happens to just not be a fan and doesn’t want to acknowledge a positive then just don’t say anything at all.

  109. Torts was perfect for NY, and did an outstanding job with the team 2 years ago. Believe it or not Sather had already given him an extension, before he let him go at the end of the year.

  110. “What do you think we would get in return? ”

    3 dimes a hundred dollar bill and eighty seven ones..

    Actually, I tend to agree with Bulldog (sigh) about Del Z. I’ve criticized this organization for years for giving up on Zubov, Nordstrom and Zidlicky. I’m not packing Del Zotto’s bags. I might if he were the only issue but he’s far from it.

  111. Agree James. Players remember guys that stand up for them. Wins and Losses not so much. I would rather see Boyle stand up for a player and lose, then say THE KREIDER get a head shot from a goonish play/player.

  112. I’m sure he’s available, Sioux.

    James, there will always be a faction who just hate a player/coach for whatever reason, and will never acknowledge said player/coach’s value.

    But there really is some value in every player/coach, yes, even Pouliot. There. I said it.

  113. I’m thinking Del Zotto will be more of a business decision, with his UFA status. He will want a big raise, and I’m not sure he isn’t replaceable with the younger talent in Hartford.

    Something tells me he will be moved for the highest value.

    We need a player, for sure in return. But this team needs more grit on the blueline. Unless Del Zotto starts to score again, and becomes to valuable to trade, but he needs a lot more shot like yesterday if he’s going to stay.

  114. apparently I stumbled on a key word somewhere and wound up in moderstation so here’s a repost:

    I spoke my peace regarding Torts yesterday too. Take any team and look up the top 3 coaches in their franchise’s history and tell me if that coach has ever fallen under the wrath that some of you guys have for him. It’s a personal thing with most of you.

    and ps- I remember everyone being beside themselves during the Gretzky years when no one would stand up for him. If Boyle was on one of those teams and jumping in to get his butt kicked when the precious 99 was involved he’d have a lot more respect from people.

  115. The anti-Torts chant is what it is…the same people who were chanting for Avery in 2012….

  116. If Sather trades Del Z and can bring back something of value…ie- not a late round draft pick, another team’s underachiever, or a 5-6 Dman so be it. But as I said, you’re trading another young Dman with potential before an off season where you may have a fair amount of turn over on defense. It’s not an easy decision

  117. Manny, once Mike Richards retires there won’t be a player in the league that Dubinsky can win a fight with. Would have kept him at 2 million a year. Another guy who would at least make an effort to stand up for guys.

  118. I agree with NYR. I think a lot of the Tort hate comes from Avery love. It’s really sad since one guy is an all time American born coach and one guy retired early because no team wanted him.

  119. I love Dubinsky. I think he put it on the line frequently for his teammates. Even the ones that are bigger than him. That guy is a consummate heart guy.

  120. Latona
    Pullout makes the 20 players on the other team better!

    December 1st, 2013 at 2:07 PM

    That’s funny stuff right there.

  121. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Manny, couldn’t agree more. Dubinsky and Prust, heart and soul.

    A wonderful thing to rip them both out of our team in one year’s time. Smart moves. Who needs the intangible players anyway??

    When Prust was moved, you might as well have ripped Boyle’s heart right out. They were the quintessential pair.

    Cally found a way to gain strength. But you know he loved and thrived on playing with Dubie.

    Always smart to rid a team of complimentary players.

  122. Leetch – McIlrath has 111 penalty minutes already.

    I’m thinking the Rangers might give him the 6th spot next year, and trade Del Zotto for a player and a pick.

  123. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    “Putting a heavyweight who can check on with Olive Boyle and Dorsett will make that line very hard to play against.”

    Oh….like Prust??

  124. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    CCCP, that’s a great question. Great question. Gotta go with Hank, but Torts had a lot to do with it, too. Tough call.

    Hank had a great year and singlehandedly won games on his own. Willed the wins.

  125. Everyone knows they need a heavyweight, including management. yet still, McIlrath is not here – obviuosly they feel he is not ready for the NHL.

    McIlrath not ready.

  126. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Definitely, Sioux. Especially at $4m per year. A little too much for him.

  127. I’ll agree 94% with you Sioux. I’ll stop withholding the other 6% when Nash stays healthy AND consistent for a few months in a row

  128. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    He adds intangibles that few add. Worth the risk. We’ve been down that path. We disagree.

    I’ll tell you this, what happened to Boyle the last 2 games doesn’t happen if Prust is here. Moreover, Boyle plays an overall better game with ‘protection’. Prust ‘protected’ him and free’d him up to do other things.

  129. Eddie Eddie Eddie on

    Torts doing a heck-of-a job brownie in Vancouver. The Nucks 2013-14 PP maybe the best ever.

  130. Eddie Eddie Eddie on

    I will laugh my buns off when the Nucks miss the playoffs….prolly be Avery’s fault.

  131. Papa, I agree on Mcllrath. Young kid hasn’t even had a call up where he can play 5 or 6 games and obviously there’s a degree of discipline you have to be concerned with regardless of toughness. Wouldn’t put my eggs into that basket just yet.

  132. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    BUT the shelf-life issue of various players is a REAL issue for the Rangers, going forward, as it was for, let’s say, Prust.

    Callahan?? Resign for a few years? Playing his style, will he be on IR over and over? Is he worth it??

    Girardi?? Is he really that good? Will he wear down?? Can’t we trade him and get more size plus the same level of steadiness? He was a non-drafted player…is he really that good?

    Hank?? Will he really last the full 8 years for a mega-deal and be worth it?? Playing the style he plays??

    Many questions on this roster upcoming…..

  133. Torts keeps singling out and screaming at his player who make mistakes in public view means 1) can’t change the spots on a Dalmatian and 2) it won’t be long before his players start to quit on him.

  134. The Canadiens are a different team with Prust. Whether he’s on the ice or not. He’s a leader and he makes people around him tougher. If you watch a Habs game without him the announcers talk about how they miss him and how guys know they need to step up with him out. When he’s on the ice the announcers gush over him and talk about what a leader he is. And he’s smaller than Parros. Guys is an absolute warrior. Prust is irreplaceable.

    “It’s just pain”

  135. Stranger Nation on

    Think getting a 4th liner that can check and fight is not the same as bringing up Wrath of Mac. yes, having him and Falk on the back line would solve a lot of problems because, unlike a 4th liner, they can play whenever and are usually against the other teams forwards who are smacking our key guys around (McD)

    Would exchange Pyatt and Pullout for that player in a heartbeat. Don’t think that is too much to ask for cigar breath

  136. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Back at you, Manny. E3. Every team needs guys like them. All we got…..all we got…..all we got this year….is a baby Dorsett, tipping the scales at 192 (with wallet and cell phone in pocket) and standing on tippy toes to hit 6’0″. Man, he tries hard, but other teams must be laughing at the girlish way this team is put together for now (keep saying for now because I can’t believe even Slather will allow this to go on for much longer).

    As well, hey, we got Zuccs, and a whole bunch of pygmies, that wouldnt dare drop gloves anyway. It ain’t enough.

  137. The Senators are awesome. That’s a really nicely compiled team. My ideal is the Bruins though. That’s a team to be proud of.

  138. Stranger Nation on

    Prust is not a heavy, will wrestle with the heavy’s but we needed Rupp to take on the heavies.

    Prust will break down more and more as he gets older – that style does not add years to your career.

  139. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Right on, Papa. As were the Penquins 2 years ago by the Flyers. Actually, we were by B’s last year, too.

    Moronic composition, if you ask me. Simply lacking logic, for the time being until it gets changed, of course. We hope.

  140. The Rangers were ranked 8th in the league back to back years prior to the summer in which they signed Gomez and Drury. (first PP Unit of Nylander with Jagr) When Torts took over for Renney they were 22nd in the league. Then 13th in 09-10, 18th in 10-11 and buried in the basement the last two seasons. You can’t say that’s purley a coaching issue. the guys on the ice make a difference as well.

  141. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    And, Stranger, Rupp will not???????????? If I do hear what you are saying, I believe you mean Rupp-like?? Surely you don’t want Mr. Breakdown-waiting-to happen, do you?

  142. Stranger Nation on

    No, do now want The Great Outdoorsman, but a facsimile who can bang and drop em to keep the other team honest.

  143. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Manny @ 3:45, Total Vibin’. Total.

    Hate them, but they are the BEST in the east as well as the BEAST of the EAST. No team put together better and I believe they will be in the ECF again, barring injuries. What a great job with balance on that team. Sheesh.

    Ottowa of last couple of years was really good and well put together. I have a hard time assessing Alfie’s defection as yet. Like their size and toughness.

  144. Stranger Nation on

    papa – me very much likey Prusty, would have signed him because it was a 2 for 1 deal. You get Prust and the more effective Boyle. Slats just does not like paying his own. Other’s peoples mistakes, he will overpay for, but our own…no way.
    Sometimes smoke gets in your eyes…

  145. We have a team that lacks toughness up the middle (Stepan, Richards, Moore, Boyle, Brassard) on the wings (Hagelin, Zucc, Nash, Pyatt, Poulett) on the Blue line (everyone).

    Too much of a deficit in one area. Tough (NPI) to overcome.

  146. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Jets are making a great argument for a good draft pick today. Wonder how long a certain coach is allowed to stay.

    Heck for NY fans, we are pretty lucky. Our team is over .500. Name another that is????? (Yankees?)

  147. Stranger Nation on

    Lot’s of Ottawa love and Teddy Roosevelt respect but this year they are reeling and they are not making the playoffs unless they get their ship turned around soon.

  148. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Stranger, Papa, right on!! Totally agreed.

    Stubborn old man. Could have had a Chris Neil with Prust. But, no. Too stubborn for that. Instead he rips the heart out.

    Now, aside from the BLARING lack of toughness he has multiple guys that should be signed or traded WELL in advance of expiry. Instead? Nothing doing with Callahan, Girardi, HANK, Strahlman, even Boyle.

    Moronic to believe he can’t SAVE $$$$ by wrapping a few of them up now. Mark my words. Had he approached Prust like Murray did Neil, he would have SAVED the same kind of $$$$. Instead, he infuriated the guy and lost him, making it easy to say “he asked for too much”. The same BS will likely go on here with this years class, too.

    Sign them, trade them, but don’t let it fester.

    What does he do?? Let it fester. Worst play out there.

  149. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    _He adds intangibles that few add. Worth the risk. We’ve been down that path. We disagree.

    I’ll tell you this, what happened to Boyle the last 2 games doesn’t happen if Prust is here. Moreover, Boyle plays an overall better game with ‘protection’. Prust ‘protected’ him and free’d him up to do other things._

    It would be interesting if you could prove any of that.

  150. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Kenneth, you were here 2/3 years ago like I was. What you see is different than what I do, for sure. We have been down that path. But, yes, Prust gave Boyle a sense of being protected out there, a freedom that he has not had since his departure that made Boyle a better player.

    Boyle is not a fighter. He can use his size if it is in addition to someone he is on the ice with that does fight. Prust was the perfect accompaniment.

    Funny how some who were there (and trolls) seem to forget.

  151. amazing that people are still making excuses for John Tortorella purely for the sake of being argumentative. the only “fantasies” are that John Tortorella didn’t play favorites and didn’t bury players.

    and the people who are still making excuses for Brian Boyle, who is obviously a nice guy and cares about his team but is barely an NHL player at this point need a wake-up call. I read something on here the other day meant as a Boyle disclaimer concerning his “fight” with Chara, giving him credit for going up against Chara even though he knows he can’t fight. that excuse works if you’re Derek Stepan; if you’re a 4th line forward who puts up 15 points per year, and you happen to be 6’7″ 250 lbs, it’s plain asinine.

  152. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    I don’t envy Sather with the decisions he has to make. Tough ones on Hank, Cally, Girardi, even Boyler, Stahl, Strahlman. Lots of decisions, cap space decisions. Tough. Real tough.

  153. Now Boyle has to play the role of
    Protector, engaging with Chara while keeping one glove on. It’s sad. It was better when it was like, “you’re lucky you got me fighting you, look at the size of Boyle. Don’t make him mad!” Now he’s exposed.

  154. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    The fact that Torts almost achieved the ECF with a thoroughly deficient team in 2012, is all I need to know. Those of you that hate him for Avery, whatever, have to look at what he DID accomplish and turn off the personal hatred just for 30 seconds to see it equitably.

  155. to say Brian Boyle was only exposed as a soft player a few days ago is dishonest. the guy has been consistently rag-dolled all over the ice for the post few years – one fight with Chara doesn’t all of a sudden prove that Boyle is a 5’7″ player trapped in a 6’7″ body; most of us have known this for a long time. it’s no accident that Boyle turtled against Chara when he’s turtled away from most of the league for as long as he’s been wearing a Rangers jersey.

  156. you find me the list of championships John Tortorella brought to the New York Rangers and I’ll happily sing his praises.

  157. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    I’d love to see AV play Talbot tomorrow. Sorry, Hank. Get your act together and start making the really big saves like you did 2 years ago. We know you can do it. But, just do it already.

    The kid is, for the 7 or so games he has played. Your turn.

    Hopefully, he responds like he has in the past.

  158. I also remember Boyle laying out Chara behind his net in the playoffs last season. He’s huge.

  159. have felt like Talbot was the sharper of the 2 Rangers goalies a few weeks back and that hasn’t changed, though I think Lundqvist has been better of late. and though I like the way Talbot looks more than Lundqvist, it’s pretty hard to justify making a change when Lundqvist hasn’t really played himself out of the starting lineup.

  160. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Lloyd, Ned Harkness and Scotty Bowman combined couldn’t have won a championship with that crap. What are you thinking????

    But, John Tortorella got awul close to the ECF with a motley bunch that overachieved, in part because of his style.

    Unfortunately, your hatred of the man clouds your ability to see the absolute truth.

    That team was an 8th to 10th place team if there ever was one. Another well constructed Sather mediocre team. He made something out of nothing.


  161. Love the idea, Matty. I would love to see Hank respond well to a challenge before the Rangers give him all the years and all the money. Let’s make him earn it. Got nothing to lose with the way Talbot has played.

  162. I’ve got to believe the coaches are pretty keyed into the available talent in Hartford. McIlrath was horrible against watered down talent in the preseason, he’s not ready for prime time. If you guys think Stralman and Del Zotto are dead weight then I can’t even imagine the commentary if McIlrath were playing. Take off the blue glasses, he isn’t the answer.

  163. if you want to assess the success of teams by nearly getting to a conference final, you can do that, but that’s not a valid benchmark for success in any sport. the team absolutely overachieved and has been poorly assembled by an utterly inept general manager. but some people use that as a “get out of jail free” card for Tortorella and that’s just nonsense. Tortorella did some good and did a lot of bad. I think he did a fine job of extracting extended efforts out of middling players (i.e. Prust, Boyle, etc.) and did a weak job in improving young players. Personally, I place greater weight on developing young talent and could take or leave interchageable-part bottom 6 fowards.

  164. Huh? Without Tortarella there would be *no* youth on this team! What about McDonagh and Stepan? Both flourished from the start with Torts.

  165. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    So, let’s get this straight. Dave Tippetts is an awful coach because he hasn’t won the cup. So is Barry Trotz. And, Dave Babcock is also now a horrible coach that will never again be worthy of winning the Stanley Cup (but really only because he lost Lidstrom, not because he has lost his ability).

    I don’t get that.

    A coach is as good as his team. Torts had a FLAWED TEAM and still moved them far that one year. But to expect a championship with crapola is quite contrary to logical thinking.

  166. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    Being able to fight and fighting is irrelevant. Aside from taking specific guys off the ice for 5 minutes (as Boyle took Chara off on Friday), fighting does not matter.

  167. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    A coach is only good if he wins the Stanley Cup. I understand.

    We have a whole slew of lousy coaches in the league right now. 29 from last year.

  168. Are you referring to the NHL or some European league, Kenneth?

    I agree that fighting for the sake of fighting isn’t necessary and is somewhat irrelevant but fights are a necessary part of any team. The sport has calmed down greatly since 1900 and even since the 1970’s. Even since Messier played and was a little loose with his elbows.

    Fighting is still a relevant part of the NHL and those who seek to destroy that facet of the NHL should just go watch a European league with “skill”

    That isn’t what the NHL is about.

  169. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    _if you want to assess the success of teams by nearly getting to a conference final, you can do that, but that’s not a valid benchmark for success in any sport. the team absolutely overachieved and has been poorly assembled by an utterly inept general manager. but some people use that as a “get out of jail free” card for Tortorella and that’s just nonsense. Tortorella did some good and did a lot of bad. I think he did a fine job of extracting extended efforts out of middling players (i.e. Prust, Boyle, etc.) and did a weak job in improving young players. Personally, I place greater weight on developing young talent and could take or leave interchageable-part bottom 6 fowards._

    I agree with most of these thoughts. I disagree, Torts did some good and some bad. Aside from McDonagh, there isn’t anyone that made incredible strides as a player under Torts.

  170. winning championships is ultimately what defines a team in every sport. it’s why the mothereffing Giants can have a terrible season and still act like they’re a big deal. the Rangers have a legacy defined by 54 years between championships and 1 in the last 20 years (despite having ludicrously high payrolls for a chunk of that time). if you want to sing John Tortorella’s praises for almost getting to a conference final and act like every bit of success is attributable to him and every bit of failure is attributable to Sather, you can do that, but I’m just not that impressed by a track record of “nearly getting to a conference final.”

  171. It’s absolute nonsense to say that Torts wasn’t pro youth and wasn’t a coach interested in developing a youth movement under which numerous young players, and rookies, played very well. Without looking like the Edmonton Oilers for 8+ seasons either!

  172. Kenneth, really? LOL is my only response.

    Torts MADE guys like Dubinsky and Prust and Boyle and Stepan and Hagelin and Staal and McDonagh and HANK and Girardi and Callahan and yes, even Kreider. The Kreider.

  173. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Very easy to have selective glasses on what he did for this franchise.

    In fact, one thing he was, was controversial. His handling of each player was unique to them and it almost always was with the intent of getting the most out of each player. To those that love Kreider (as I do), it was some tough love. But, even AV agreed that Kreider wasn’t ready as recently as game 10 of this year. So, really, what did Torts do that was wrong?

    With Hags, Step, Staal (albeit a bit constrained at first), MacD, and others, he helped them become who they are.

    I would argue that he was more harsh with MDZ and Kreider but in the end, and part of that for Kreider may just be beginning, they could well be better for what he taught them.

  174. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    He also did everything for Richards. Tried it all. He just is plain awful. But, oh, that’s right, I’m sure you’re thinking Richards is the best Ranger on this roster, given his point total, right?

  175. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Manny 4:32 and Matty 4:34………….simply scary, my friend. Scary.

  176. didn’t say either, just said Tortorella “did a weak job in improving young players.” I do believe he deserves some credit for McDonagh.

  177. Tortorella “made” Lundqvist now? And Kreider? Won’t even touch on the rest.

    Seriously, Matty, I am convinced you think Brian Boyle is a top-3, 60-point forward who’s only problem is that he’s being held back by Vigneault?

  178. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    He had nothing to do with Step becoming a 2nd line center (for most teams), THAT PLAYS A TWO WAY GAME, which translates to a 1st line center for the Rangers, did he?

    He did nothing to place Hags in the right position to apply his speed, PLAY A TWO WAY GAME, and non-finishing ability, did he?

  179. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Lloyd, take off your hatred for the players coaches you speak and just evaluate their talent. Who ever said Boyle is a scorer?? Perhaps you did??

    Please do not put words in my mouth.

    Boyle is, has, always will be a role player that uses his big body, not for fighting, but to play a defensive style. He is best along the boards, is ok for PK and face offs, and doesn’t cost the team a lot in cap space.

    If you want to make Wayne Gretzky out of that, go ahead.

  180. this argument again. I liked Torts, he is a good coach. he had a terrible year last year, and that led to him getting fired. Torts took them as far as he was going to. while I was not for his firing, he did run his course. to say he helped Krieder is a bit of a stretch.

  181. Yea, it’s weird. I didn’t see Matty say any of that about Boyle. I thought he was positioning Boyle as a good role player. A multi dimensional one at best.

  182. it is also interesting that if you read between the lines, on of the reasons he was fired was for his benching of Richards. a move all of us here felt was a good one.

  183. Maybe we’re just arguing with people who only see, or care about, goals and forget that 80% of the game is kept trying to not get scored on.

  184. That is interesting, bull dog. I thought it was because he didn’t bench him early enough. I guess this means Sather LOVES Richards and we won’t see a buyout any time soon…

  185. sorry, Matt

    re: Boyle I meant, Manny, not Matty.

    in all honesty I can’t really tell the difference

  186. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Actually Boyle did so many things yesterday that stopped Vancouver from potentially scoring. But I would assume that went unnoticed. What I am sure was noticed is him not scoring a goal.

    He sucks.

  187. Manny,
    I think there were at least 3 reasons he was fired. Richards, his handling of Kreider, and his system.
    for those that defend his handling of Kreider by saying AV sent him down too. I say this, AV also plays him 14 to 16 minutes a game, plays him on the top 6, plays him on the power play, and does not bench him for every little mistake he makes.

  188. How many guys didn’t score yesterday? Can we trade them all? Including Hank and Talbot. Trade them for Mile Smith. He scores goals!

  189. Brian Boyle is an adequate bottom-6 to bottom-3 forward and penalty killer who plays a fairly soft game and overachieved in the 2010-11 season. Are you comfortable with that assertion?

  190. it’s interesting how the Tortorella fan boys fall back on the “goalscorers are overrated” argument when in the same breath they say Tortorella didn’t have any talent to work with and by default had to play a defensive system.

  191. “So who was more responsible for taking the team to the ECF?

    Hank or Torts?”

    Who was more responsible for putting that team together, Torts, Hank, or Sather?

    All Torts.

    Not going to defend him when it came to the trades. I’m sure the Gaborik trade was ultimately his call, and maybe forced Sather’s hand. With the Nash trade, who knows?. One or both. Doesn’t matter at this point.

    The Nash trade was a waste, in my opinion. I like Nash, but if this team doesn’t win a Cup within the next few years, then it’s a complete waste.

  192. I’m not comfortable with that, Lloyd. He’s better than that. I think Boyle is an IDEAL 4th line Center. There are few better (James brought up Campbell as one) Top notch face off guy who is terrific on the PK. Also good at protecting leads. What’s not to love?

  193. ok, so you’re admitting virtually unparalleled reverence for a 4th-line center (your words) who is 6’7″ 250 and plays like 5’7″ 160.

  194. Did Torts really bench Kreider for every mistake? I swear that seems like an exaggeration.

    I know Torts was always quick to bench someone for dumbass mistakes, but I don’t recall him benching Kreider every single chance he got.

    I never really had a problem with how he handled Kreider until toward the end. Kreider was basically what Pullout is to NYR right now. At times he showed something, but overall, didn’t do *anything* to deserve to stay in the lineup.

    Maybe I’m wrong, but wasn’t he playing with Nash in the playoffs? Not like he was on the 4th line every game.

  195. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Bottom 6? Yes, a given. Fairly soft? Not entirely. By virtue of his frame, he can grind it out a bit. But Is he a fighter? We know better. Can he play ‘bigger’ with someone like Prust or even a runt-fighter like Dorsett? Uh huh.

    Will he ever produce the same point total again? I would not expect that. It was a cosmic event. A confluence of various circumstances that worked in his favor.

    Now, ask me, is his value in points produced?? Not at all. Any point production from him is gravy. Pure gravy.

    His value is prevention of scoring. Going up against the opposition’s top line. Wall play, PK, face offs, being a big body, and being good in the locker room. I don’t see scoring there at all.

  196. Lloyd: I have joked before that I hate goals. It’s almost true. Aside from being excited when my team scores, I don’t look at it much. Most good hockey teams win 2-1 and 3-2 in the playoffs. I want a team that can win a 1-0 6th game in 3OT. That’s my interest

    There are not enough elite goal scoters to go around. There are maybe 10 max in the NHL and Pitt has 2 of them.

    Thus, teams like the Rangers overpay for 30 goal, second tier goal scoters because of desperation.

    The Tampa Bay and Wash Capitals theory doesn’t work. Defense > Offense in the playoffs.

  197. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    _Kenneth, really? LOL is my only response. Torts MADE guys like Dubinsky and Prust and Boyle and Stepan and Hagelin and Staal and McDonagh and HANK and Girardi and Callahan and yes, even Kreider. The Kreider._

    This is beyond laughable.

    Dubinsky, Prust, Boyle are average at best.

    Stepan, Hagelin, Staal are good players with some skill. Not world beaters.

    Girardi, Callahan, Hank were successful already under Renney.

    McDonagh is the only player to make strides of leaps and bounds under Torts.

    Kreider, no.

  198. that Tortorella took time away from Chris Kreider, who admittedly struggled but has huge upside, while cementing Taylor Pyatt into the lineup who did absolutely nothing and has zero upside is one argument you could certainly make that Tortorella didn’t exactly get the most out of Chris Kreider.

  199. I agree with that assessment, ORR.

    Yea, Lloyd. I love role players. My favorite hockey player ever is Brandon Prust (probably)

  200. yep, most good hockey teams win close games in the playoffs, and they win them by scoring 2 or 3 important goals on any given night. who was scoring those meaningful goals on the Rangers? Mike Rupp?

  201. Another unreal argument, Lloyd. The Kreider that we see now we have never seen before. He was even bad in the AHL. This is a new beast and he hasn’t been entirely consistent either. Just enough good games in a row to warrant staying.

    Kreisler and Pyatt are not comparable because they play different roles. This is something you and a few others never get. Goal scoring guys with poor defensive IQ cannot play on the 4th line. Only Pyatt can play that role.

    This is something I believe Vigneault gets.

  202. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    _I want a team that can win a 1-0 6th game in 3OT. That’s my interest_

    This is, again, laughable.

    How have you manufactured the idea that good hockey teams win 2-1 and 3-2?

    Good hockey teams have the ability to win in many different ways. They have the ability to outscore the opponent to win games, they have the ability to shut down the opponent defensively to win games, they have a goalie that can steal games. Every team strives for quality in all aspects of the game and depth of quality.

    Not caring about goals in hockey is so dumb, I am crying, not laughing.

  203. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    _Yea, Lloyd. I love role players._

    You can have yourself a team full of role players, and that team isn’t going to make the playoffs.

  204. Taylor Pyatt is incapable of fulfilling any role at the moment. He proved incapable of fulfilling any role last year. Kreider played like a monster in the playoffs 2 years ago. Are you getting a different TV feed than the rest of us?

  205. defense wins in the playoffs? tell the to Toews, Kane, Sharp, and Hossa.
    Torts had Kreider as healthy scratch for most of the playoffs. it was only out of desperation that he used him in games 4 and 5 of the Boston series.

  206. All players are role players. Just like Stamkos’ role is to score 60+ goals a season, Boyles role is to win face offs and kill penalties and protect leads.

  207. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    Torts was a good coach for the franchise. He wasn’t great. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

  208. again, the Tortorella fan boys (who may well have switched allegiance to the Vancouver Canucks and are just wasting everyone’s time here) fail to realize that great teams are mixtures of great players and role players. teams that are all of either don’t win anything. they are defined by almost getting to a conference final.

  209. Pyatt was actually pretty good in the playoffs. Better than a lot of NYR forwards! LOL! That was a huge problem.

    I’ve warmed up to AV, for sure. But I still think Torts should have gotten one more year. If it didn’t work out, then that’s that.

    They got past a tough Caps team. Everyone seemed to forget statistically that team was probably the best going into the playoffs. They were winning, and OvechCANT was scoring almost every game, and they shut them down. Down 0-2, faced elimination twice, and blew them out in game 7.

    I know they lost to the B’s in 5, but they could have won a lot of those games, which is why the series was so frustrating to watch.

  210. Toews is not if the best two way forwards in the game. He and Bergeron. They are both defensive geniuses which is what makes them so valuable.

    Remember that time Toews went like 19 games without a point?

  211. in Planet Manny, John Tortorella is still coaching the Rangers, and Jonathan Toews is out killing penalties in the 7th OT of a scoreless tie.

  212. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    _All players are role players. Just like Stamkos’ role is to score 60+ goals a season, Boyles role is to win face offs and kill penalties and protect leads._

    No. By role players, you mean players with no discernible skill. Players that are appreciated for their energy, hustle, toughness. Prust, Dubinsky fit the mold.

  213. I remember when Manny told me you build a team around a guy like Ruslan Fedotenko because he scored a Cup clinching goal. You can’t make this stuff up.

  214. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    _I know they lost to the B’s in 5, but they could have won a lot of those games, which is why the series was so frustrating to watch._

    ORR, not according to Matty. According to Matty, the Bruins were on a different stratosphere than the Rangers.

  215. Kreider, who is just doing enough to warrant staying, is the 3rd leading scorer on the team.

  216. Yeah, Kreider played like a monster two years ago. Two fuggin years ago.

    Last year, he was just aboot useless. Looked like a puppy playing with lions.

    Took him a looong fuggin time to get his act together, and it wasn’t just in the NHL.

    Maybe we can blame Gernander for that?? Blame any coach!

  217. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    _I remember when Manny told me you build a team around a guy like Ruslan Fedotenko because he scored a Cup clinching goal. You can’t make this stuff up._

    He must be playing us.

  218. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    _Kreider, who is just doing enough to warrant staying, is the 3rd leading scorer on the team._

    Unfortunately, some people understand less about the construction of a hockey team than Glen Sather, something I previously thought impossible.

  219. Among some of you, I think there’s a level of obsession with John Tortorella and his favorites that far dwarfs whatever residual interest may be left in Sean Avery.

  220. I like the season Boyle is having this year. having said that, guys like him are replaceable. like Blair Betts before him, there is somebody out there who can do Boyle’s job just as well as him.

  221. I couldn’t care less aboot any 4th liners. As long as they’re on the 4th line.

    When you get guys like Fedetenko on a line with Gaborik, Pyatt on a line with Nash, like we’ve seen in the past, then there’s a problem. It just shouldn’t happen.

    Just waiting for that 2-3 week stretch where Pullout is with Nash & Richards, and I’m putting my head through every car window down my block.

  222. Pouliot is a guy many participants here would be drooling over if this team was still coached by John Tortorella, guaranteed. We’d be hearing about how important his high hit total is, how his lack of scoring is meaningless, and what a valuable two-way forward he has been to Tortorella’s “defense-first” system.

  223. Yea, Gregory Campbell. He’s awesome.

    Is Kenneth actually just Lloyd under a different name?

  224. It’s funny that you guys bring up the Blackhawks as this offensive juggernaut when Bickell and Bolland were a huge part of their success. Bickell got overpaid and Bolland walked. Role players.

  225. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    _“there is somebody out there who can do Boyle’s job just as well as him”_

    _I agree with that, for sure._

    Well stated.

  226. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    _nah Boyle is an elite 4th-line center_

    Well stated. It’s an oxymoron

  227. you find me the Jonathan Toews, Patrick Kane, and Marian Hossa on the Rangers and we can pencil them in for the Cup this year

  228. Eddie Eddie Eddie on

    Manny/Matty – Lloyd is right on the mark….no need to criticize what he’s saying …!!!!

  229. iManny a/k/a The White Flag on

    I think my point on Fedotenko and guys like that is that, if I was building a team, as I have said, I would analyze my roster, figure out the identity, and build a team that matches that identity. Don’t add big names for the sake of it because if they don’t fit the identity than they are just in the way.

    With that 2011-2012 team and after that I was, and still am, in favor of building from the bottom up

    Season after season the Rangers get booted from the post season because of a rugged and effective 4th line. That stuff matters!

  230. “Season after season the Rangers get booted from the post season because of a rugged and effective 4th line. That stuff matters!”

    you either intended this as an epiphany or it completely contradicts everything you’ve been saying. either way I have no idea what point you’re trying to make.

  231. Eddie Eddie Eddie on

    I also disagree that torts alone got them to the ECF 2 years ago. That was a good team Period. World class goalie, tough gritty forwards, good D men (shame Sauer got hurt) great PK, and forwards that could score – not enough as it turned out – but still……

  232. iManny a/k/a The White Flag on

    I mean that 4th lines matter. Role players, of that type, matter. A lot. And the Rangers should take a clue from the last three seasons and start building an actual 4th line and stop just throwing any AHL player out there with an undersized fighter and Boyle.

  233. you want to build a team for a Stanley Cup Championship starting with Arron Asham, Brian Boyle and Michael Haley.

    um, ok

  234. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    E3, let’s go back 2 years. At the beginning of that year, were you thinking ECF, no doubt? Think back, my brutha. Think back. I was thinking stay out of last place.

    No doubt you will remember a thoroughly inept offensive team. What’s a coach to do? Well, since these guys got no talent up front. Can’t finish. Let’s go the other way. Defensive style. Shot blocking.

    For that one year, combined with some solid play from many highly motivated players, that had a fire lit under their butts, playing well above their heads, and a Hank that had an excellent, Vezina year, they did well.

    Was that all Torts?? Not on your life. Did he help? I do believe it did.

  235. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    You can’t have things every way to fit your beliefs.

    Either you think Hank is world class or you thought the Rangers would struggle to stay out of last place two seasons ago.

    Either you think Hank’s world class level of play was the primary reason for the Rangers ECF berth two seasons ago or you think Torts was the primary reason.

    They had a fire lit under their butts two seasons ago, but not in every other season during Torts’ tenure? What changed during that one season?

    The team finished 11th in scoring two seasons ago. They weren’t offensively inept.

  236. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Now, I guess to Lloyd and Kenneth, he should have taken that team right to the SC finals and won. Doesn’t matter what the composition of the team was. All that matters is that you’re a coach. You failed if no SC at the end of the year.

    There’s no grey. None at all. It’s black and white. If you don’t win the cup, you suck.

    Lloyd, this in essence, is what you are saying, is it not?

  237. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Kenneth, there is black, white and grey. Not just the two former.

    What changed? You tell me. Where you watching? Do you remember how they took over 1st place and never looked back? Do teams ONLY rely on great goaltending to win the cup? Is a team made up of more than one player? Can a coach’s message ‘get to’ the players in that one special year, enabling things to ‘click’?

    I am stunned by the lack of understanding of the game.

  238. Lloyd. Not sure about the others, bit I’m on the edge of my seat looking forward to reading your manifesto / treatise on the building of a SC Champ. Was it published yet?

    um. Can’t wait.

  239. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    As I look back to that ‘special year’ I definitely believe it was a confluence of forces that made that team click.

    1. Hank had an above average year and you could go into a game thinking he could make the ‘big save’ at any moment.

    2. The shot blocking was working, and few teams had an answer for it back then.

    3. Total team defense

    4. Some scoring

    5. Total team toughness –yep, guys like Prust, Dubie, you know, the guys that are so awful because they don’t have the stats and do nothing for their teams, protecting the team, giving them a sense that they can do what they need to do and not worry.

    Anything else?

  240. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    So the coach only got through to the players in one season, 2012. Then what does that say about the coach, if you believe this to be true?

    So even though Hank is world class and was primarily responsible for their 2012 ECF berth a few days ago when it suited you, today Torts was primarily responsible.

    When a team employs a world class goalie such as Hank, last place is never a consideration, no matter the surrounding roster parts.

  241. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Kenneth, you say you have watched this team since the ’60’s. Have you really?

    What changed? Oh, nothing much.

    For one thing, some smart teams figured out ways to delay their point shot to more or less negate the shot blocking.

    More importantly, a slight change in personnel the next year. You know, this team didn’t win the cup, so we’ll either not sign or trade a whole slew of players. But to you, Lloyd/Kenneth, players of no import. You know, they are only role players.

    “Nothing’ players like Prust, Feds, Mitchell, Anisimov, Dubie, Christensen, Newbury, Rupp,

    Really, it didn’t matter.

  242. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    And if he was a real coach (defined as winning the SC every year) he would have worked around it and won the Stanley Cup.

    So, he stinks.

  243. Eddie Eddie Eddie on

    Lloyd – A 4th line of Boyle, Asham, and Haley serves it’s purpose. Richards, Pyatt and Pooyo sit.

  244. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    _For one thing, some smart teams figured out ways to delay their point shot to more or less negate the shot blocking._

    This has nothing to do with the teams during Torts tenure, other than the fact that teams adjusted to Torts’ shot blocking defense and Torts never re-adjusted. The changes in personnel during Torts tenure, aside from the Nash acquisition and the McDonagh development, were minimal. The core of players was in place from the beginning of Torts reign until the end. Role players come and go.

  245. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    You’ll pardon me, but I now know this is a losing argument as your hockey IQ is lower than the Islanders won/loss record over the last 15 years.

    In one year, with very significant gutting of the true heart and soul of the team, which overnight made the team physically easier to play against, left important players unprotected, the GM changed everything from the feel on the ice to the feel in the locker room.

    You may have been watching from the ’60’s, but you are seeing nothing.

  246. Eddie Eddie Eddie on

    Kreider, Step, Nash
    Hags, Brassard, Cally
    Miller, D.Moore, Dorsett
    Bickel, Boyle, Haley

  247. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    Oh, true heart and soul of the team. Toughness. Physicality. Yadda, yadda, yadda. Rinse, repeat.

    _You’ll pardon me, but I now know this is a losing argument as your hockey IQ is lower than the Islanders won/loss record over the last 15 years._

    What happened to the quote by you not too long ago, I’m paraphrasing, “we don’t denigrate other posters because we disagree with them”

  248. Ken Dryden said the biggest difference in the game today compared to the 70’s and before is speed.

    He attributes that speed in large part too shorter shifts. The norm in the 50’s and 60’s were 2:00 minute shifts, so there was much more coasting and shorter bursts of speed.

    Thought he as describing the plight of Willllllllllber!

  249. Matty,
    you are right, they did sort of gut that team, but in my opinion, that was as far as that team was going. I think this team is more talented than that team, but as you have said, they are easier to play against physically. I think this team, with a physical addition or two, is closer to the cup than that team. just my opinion.

  250. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Yea, so, ask Joel Quenneville, who went to round 3 his first year with the Hawks, won the SC in the second year, then lost in round 1 2 years in a row what happened.

    Does this mean he lost his edge? Take a look at the needed player personnel moves and his team lacked depth.

    Then, in his 5th year, I believe, they were smartly restocked and they won the cup again. Did his ability as a coach change that dramatically from year to year? Or did some of it have to do with the Byfuglien role layers he lost?

  251. Eddie Eddie Eddie on

    Bulldog – if you could magically turn Richards into Lucic, the rangers are in ECF.

  252. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Bulldog, don’t disagree with anything you say. I was behind the Nash deal. I am not sure we have seen or ever will see the true Nash. But if he does appear, it should help.

    History will tell if it was wise to gut the team then or not. It was a rather rash move and most GM’s would not have survived it.

    And, yes, I did appreciate Torts for what he did, especially that one special year, but most of the guys were done with him last year. I get it.

  253. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    So you are comparing Joel Quenneville to Torts? Brilliant!

    In the always better and deeper Western Conference, they lost in WCF, won Stanley Cup, lost in 1st round, lost in 1st round, won Stanley Cup.

  254. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Eddie, no truer words ever spoken. Richards…poof….into a Lucic!!
    MAZ….poof…into Marchand, nose and all!! Hags….poof into Bergeron!!

    Then a little…poof….and John Moore is Chara!!! Poof….Douggie Hamilton from MDZ!!!

    Man, now we’re talking!!

  255. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Yea, Kenneth, your argument, not mine. Boy, Quenneville really sucked years 3 and 4, huh? He totally lost it. No one listened to him. Barely made the POs, and one and out.

    Couldn’t be because of moves by the GM, could it have? No, it was Queneville. He sucks, too. No cup. He sucks.

    The argument holds no water.

  256. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    Also, you called Byfuglien a role player. He’s a 1st pair D with offensive skill better than any Rangers D. The Hawks roster had to be completely re-tooled after their 1st Stanley Cup due to the salary cap.

  257. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    Matty, that’s what you said. Torts lit a fire under their butts in 2011-12, meaning he didn’t light a fire in any other season. I focused on that because it was ridiculous of you to state Torts lit a fire under their butts in 2011-12. That’s your argument. You’re right. It doesn’t hold water.

  258. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    In case you didn’t understand the reference to the always better and deeper Western Conference, I will spell it out for you. It’s more difficult for any specific team to advance in the West playoffs than it is in the East, they are deeper 1-8 seed.

  259. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    I’m done with this moronic discussion, but will say this:

    A coach is only as good as the team provided by the GM. There are times where a coach can develop strategy that can work better than other systems might for a team. There are times where the ‘mix’ of players in the room can be massaged by a coach and made to work better. There are times when a coach can get a team to be extremely motivated and out work their opposition. There are times where personnel will have banner years and help a team to play better than it looks on paper.

    Some years, certain teams will excel. There is no handbook. That’s what happened that one year since 1994.

    Torts was the coach. Hank was the goalie, The role players played their roles. The offensive players were average, but scored some.

    However, to believe that any component of the team has nothing to do with it is pure disregard for logic.

  260. the idea of having fighters seems to be overrated these days… but really, watching our biggest player get his ass handed to him two games in a row is a bit disconcerting. rangers have been receiving a bunch of cheap shots. a rugged fighting forward (who’s taller than 5-10) instead of pyatt wouldn’t really kill us. prust and now dorsett shouldn’t have to take on every heavyweight. we’re like the giant smurfs.

  261. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    fchamps, I totally disagree. That’s what we have Zuccarello and Hags for. Have you ever seen them fight?

  262. I still agree with Matty, the funny stuff Papa said, and bull dog’s rational statements. Also, I agree with Eddie putting Bickel on the 4th line.

  263. Eddie Eddie Eddie on

    Fchamps – what is needed, while they certainly don’t grow on trees, are players that can play but drop the gloves as necessary. Give me Lucic and Thornton on the bruins for Pyatt and Richards and I’ll give you a team that will make a run in the east….

  264. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    Torts was a good coach for the Rangers. He did some positive things with the roster provided to him. That said, his teams were inconsistent through his Rangers tenure, while Sather added quality such as McDonagh and Nash. All parts of a team are important, as you said. Role players, though, are least valuable.

  265. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    E3, while you’re at it, dreaming and all, Fedex me a couple of gold bars and a stack of hundreds.

  266. Good name, Matty.

    But Lucic it a top 6 player. Not a fourth line guy. He’s a legit power forward. He’s awesome.

    4th like players that rule are like Campbell, Paille, Krejci, That Caps 4th line that killed us, Neil, Konopka, etc.

  267. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Kenneth @ 7:29, we are partially vibin’ there. Let’s leave it at that.

  268. A truce!

    But for real, role players are very, very important during the grueling playoff run. Especially when fighting takes on less of a role and puck handling is called for by your 4th line.

  269. Eddie Eddie Eddie on

    All players have a role and they’re all important. Scorers score, checkers check, fore-checkers fore-check, grinders grind, goalies save, fighters fight (and play when not fighting) etc etc. The best teams can do it all consistently.


  270. iWicky "Frag Out!!!" on

    Whole house has the stomach flu and catching up on the last few days of posts is not making it any better…

    Wasn’t big buff a forward on that Blackhawks team??

  271. It’s one thing to not like Tortorella as a person. He overall, is a jerk, from what most people see and read about his personality and how he treats people.

    But, it’s totally another to discredit him as a hockey coach or make false accusations about how he felt about certain players. He has proven results in building team identities, winning games and turning boys into men.

    To suggest that he had agendas against specific players or that he wanted to destroy a player’s career, is beyond ridiculous. The man cared more about the New York Rangers and the players than many fans do. He brought a lot pride to the organization. I think a lot of that pride left with him.

  272. iWicky "Frag Out!!!" on

    The fact that many of you are coming around to what I have been saying since the summer, this team is too small and not physically intimidating/tough enough.

    If you want to see how an all skilled not physical type team plays and how they would do, just look at our current record.

    We cannot beat teams big, physically intimidating teams that play a north south game because we can not match them.

  273. That is said much more eloquently than I have been able to put it. Thanks, NYR. Vibin’ as always.

  274. CARP, would you say there has been a concerted effort by NYR to attempt more deflections this season than in seasons past? Seems that way..

  275. Yes it was a great run to the ECF…as we struggled to win games consistently (win one lose one throughout the entire run) and then our future hall of fame ex-coach got outcoached and our super-duper team got beat by FOURTH LINE! So yeah…it was fun!

    But, people who keep on coming back to that magic ECF run tend to forget all the missed playoffs and all the make playoffs by winning the last game of the season or pray to god another team wins to give you chance to get in…i know, i know… its not how you get there as long as you get there but…once we got there…there wasn’t much damage done.

  276. iWicky "Frag Out!!!" on

    People that want to criticize other posters because they want to balance out the roster a bit playable toughness/physically intimidating players crack me up.

    Just because someone wants to add toughness doesn’t mean they want 12 Prust’s at fwd and 6 bickels on D…you anti grit/toughness posters need to get a bit of a clue.

    It is a combo of skill/toughness and this team obviously does not have the right combo and it’s record proves it.

  277. Manny, I totally agree with what you said about The Prust. Irreplaceable…but still overpaid…

    And, yes, wick. Buff was a power forward on that Blackhawks team. He manhandled Pronger for the whole series…and scored a few big goals, I think…

  278. Absolutely, Latona. Getting a man planted in front and getting shots have been hammered into their heads from Day 1 by AV and Arniel. Especially on the PP.

  279. iWicky "Frag Out!!!" on

    The fact that tostitos was observant enough to accurately point out during the rangers nucks game to the ranger bench (as giagnome reported) we don’t have anyone that can do anything about it.

    No offence to dorsett who constantly fights out of his class, and always does his best, but we do need a bigger fighter.

    I don’t even think we need a heavyweight (I’d be fine with one), but a light heavyweight would be good enough.

    There are heavyweights who can play as well as fight (Thornton from Boston is a prime example, but I don’t think he is available) bordeleau from Colorado is one I can think of right away.

    Light heavyweights that can play seem a bit more plentiful, boll from Columbus, King or Nolan from LA, Neil from Ott, rupp from minny (sorry had to throw that in for some of u lol)

  280. That’s really sad, Wick. I missed that report because I listened to the game but Maloney was even pointing out the lack of toughness.

    It’s pathetic. This team has to get tougher. Quickly. Bordeleau would be awesome but for the time being I want Bickel. He knocked out Sestito’s teeth once and he can do it again. That guy can bang.

  281. iWicky "Frag Out!!!" on

    Re hank to wings

    If hanks contract is 8 years 7 mil per, yes I would hate to see him go

    If it is 8 years 9 mil per, I’m not sure that I would mind him leaving

  282. iWicky "Frag Out!!!" on

    Thanks papa! We are trying.

    They went to giagnome between the benches and he reported tostitos said that skating by the rangers bench

  283. Bieksa jumped Boyle. It’s needs to start being a suspension when guys do this. What was Boyle to do at that point. Wait a sec, isn’t it already a rule? I could have sworn you couldn’t fight in the last 2-3 min of the game or there would be a fine/suspension.

  284. My favorite Alfredsson moment was when he took a center ice slapshot at Niedermeyer, I think it was. Awesome stuff!

  285. Richie to Slats, while handing him a box of Corona Coronas: “It’s not fair. I want to be in the middle and he put me over on the left side.”

    Slats: “I’ll take care of it. Must have been an error somewhere.”

  286. iWicky "Frag Out!!!" on

    I’d even take tootoo from the wings for some middleweight playable toughness.

    We really need to put a little distance between this around .500 record.

  287. iWicky "Frag Out!!!" on

    Even more interesting in that link is who are the 1.6% that voted carter the winner?

  288. The same people that vote for the goalie that didn’t play as a star of the game. Usually before the game starts

    I vote and comment honestly at HockeyFights

  289. Boyle’s biggest problem when he drops the gloves is his poor balance and inability to skate while throwing his hands. Put him in boxing shoes in a ring and I’m sure he’d be better….It’s not easy to fight on skates….

  290. iWicky "Frag Out!!!" on

    I’d love to see us add a 3-7 forward that can score 20+ goals and that plays with an edge and has a bit of size to him…

    A burrows, ruutu, evander Kane, type

  291. Speaking of courage and selfless sacrifice, hats off to Dorsett. Like to have that guy on my side during battle. Guy has some skill too.

  292. iWicky "Frag Out!!!" on

    Not that I think hank has been terrible, but do you think the lack of contract progress has affected him?

  293. I’ll take Evander Kane please. And Wayne Simmonds. That will just about do it for me. Call up Mcllrath. Slot in Bickel. Enjoy life

  294. iWicky "Frag Out!!!" on

    I went with the all M defence in NHL 14

    Mcdonut, j Moops, mcilrath, methot, Meyers, and (e)melin.

  295. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Jesper Fast(h) was brought in as an enforcer in the Swedish Elite League. Tough as nails.

  296. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    You think Sather is a pitiful GM for the Rangers? His coaching record was worse!!!

  297. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    JIMMY: “Glen, you are not only the bestest GM in the league, but you are the best coach, too. I really look up to you. Stay as long as you wish.”

    Sather: “But, Jimmy, my record as coach was 33-46. Nice percentage, huh?? And I have been a GM for 13 years and never gotten anywhere near the SC Finals.”

    JIMMY: “That’s what I’m talking about!!”

  298. But look how much the Rangers are worth! Forbes ranked them second behind the Maple Leafs!

    What a joke. Why would any owner want to win?

  299. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Poullet is one heck of a crazy fighting monster. Hands of steel.

  300. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Sather: “Well, Jimmy, when I was coach, though, I had an awful GM that didn’t put the right players in the line up for me. ”

    Jimmy: “Oh, I am sorry to hear that. And, who was your GM?”

    Sather: “Me.”

  301. Eddie Eddie Eddie on

    Dolan – “Glen, you going to eat that”

    Slats – “it’s paste”

    Dolan – “I know, you going to eat it?”

  302. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    Trade Rick Nash for Max Pacioretty, to save cap space.

  303. Cpt., there’s a suspension for instigating late in a game. the refs blew it, or chickened out, on Bieksa.

    wick, assuming you mean Lundqvist. I supposed it’s possible. I’d be surprised. He’s a pretty focused guy who happens to be a little bit off, IMO.

  304. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Knicks are hooping and scooping, hoping and dropping, resounding and founding, shooting and scooting, one-on-one-ing, no defensing, their way to another loss. Call it almost 9 in a row for the other well run MSG team.

    Please post ideas for how to use the ‘transformed’ MSG in April. All help welcome…..

  305. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    In the final minute, the ‘team strategy’ is:

    Isolate Carmelo and let him shoot. It usually doesn’t work.

  306. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Get this…the Knicks are playing ‘The Pelicans’.

    Is that a ‘real’ team? What’s the NBA come down to?

  307. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Jimmy: “Mike, uh…Mike Woodson. My assessment is that you are a great coach.”

    Woodson: “But, Jimmy, I have now lost 9 games in a row.”

    Jimmy: “What’s wrong with that? Someone has to lose.”

    Woodson: “Thanks, Jimmy.”

  308. Jeffrey’s dad to Jeffrey’s Mom: “Is Jeffrey coming over?”

    “No. He said he’s having company for dinner.”

  309. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Our team is THE ONLY current NY team above .500. Perhaps Sather IS a good GM, compared to all the other crap management in NYC sports.

  310. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    The Knicks have found a uniform worse than the Fishsticks 3rd. Wonders never cease.

  311. You few Boneheads who want to fire Sather are kidding, aren’t you? Because since the lockout, I’ve seen this team rebuild into a very solid organization filled with young improving players who are locked into very good cap space with good salaries. I would hate to see another GM come in and replace Slats by trading away all the long term homegrown young talent that the Rangers have been developing – for veteran players and a quick fix to put all their eggs in a one year try to win the cup basket… Like Neil Smith felt he had to do when Iron Mike Keenan started bullying him in the tabloids. Anyway if you are actually serious about firing Sather, you have no idea how much worse things could be without Uncle Glenney as our GM.

  312. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    How can you stand on a professional basketball court and feel good about your game, playing “The Pelicans”?

    That is the worst name in sports.

    Next up: “The Blue-Footed Boobies”

  313. They will probably design new “slim fit” Brooklyn style jerseys. Maybe denim jerseys in a slim fit, snap button?

  314. Rob in Beantown on

    I think what happened was New Orleans gave the name back to Charlotte, so next year they can be the Charlotte Hornets again. The Charlotte Hornets being a team again is literally the coolest thing to happen to the NBA in 20 years

  315. leetchhalloffame on

    Jonathan – Really? Have you seen the roster full of 3rd & 4th line pansified players on this team? FIRE SATHER.

  316. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Jonathan E. Welcome to the blog. Everyone’s entitled to their own opinion.

    If you are looking for ‘average or slightly above’ he is perfect. I am not so sure, after 13 years he can be called ‘the one’.

    Doesn’t’ matter. The owner is in love with him.

  317. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Ya know, it’s hard to even address that one. Gosh, if the average fan thinks this guy is really good, that’s more scary than the name of the New Orleans basketball team. I mean, really!

  318. Rob in Beantown on

    I don’t like the NBA, but I think New Orleans Pelicans is an awesome team name. I guess its just a matter of opinion though

  319. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Jonathan, I’m wondering if you see any difference between the ‘core’ of players we have and, let’s say, Boston, Chicago, San Jose, Ducks, or The Kings?

    If a GM has the knowledge of what it takes to get to that point, how long should it take to construct?

  320. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    I’ll defer to you, Rob. Basketball has become a silly sport, IMHO. A name like that, to me, lends credence to that line of thought.

  321. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    But, ya know, they had 19,000 plus fans at MSG tonight. Average $120-130 per ticket. All the concessions. Nice money machine, huh? Imagine if they were a winning team???

  322. Rob in Beantown on

    Pelicans is a brand new name that somehow sounds retro because its a throwback back to an era when teams could be named after non-ferocious things like birds. Nowadays teams are given bland names like “Thunder” or “Wild.” Those are way more terrible than Pelicans in my opinion

  323. Actually Leetchhallof, fame, that’s not how I view the Rangers roster. Anyway, your complaining about the 3rd & 4th lines…

  324. Interestingly, Stralman has a large tattoo of a pelican on his right shoulder. Apparently he spent a few summers in the BV islands, lots of euros do.

  325. Yes, Tortorella has insisted he needs BR to win a Stanley Cup…and Glen will throw in the French Poodle!;>))

  326. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Yes, Stranger. How is this kid’s skating? He sure looks like he could be one of the crease clearing d-men we have desperately needed.

  327. leetchhalloffame on

    Jonathan – Even though they stink I’m not complaining about our 3rd and 4th lines. I’m talking about a roster FULL of 3rd & 4th line players, with few exceptions. If you think that is “building a good core of players” I don’t. Wouldn’t you love to see the naked pictures Sather has of Dolan?

  328. I sure do Matty Boy! Lot’s of teams would love to build their teams around Lundqvist, Nash, Callahan, McDonaugh, Gerardi & Staal. With Stepan, Kreider, Hagelin, Moore, and maybe a few other young players like Brassard, Kristo, McIlrath, etc eventually developing into “core’ Players.

  329. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    The names, I agree, Jonathan, seem quite good. Do you happen to see any missing ingredients in our ‘core players’ that other, better GM’s seem to add?

  330. Matty"WeShouldWearPinkPanties!!"Boy on

    Might change my screen name, he comes up here. More than one playable tough guys needed, though. Prust saying’.

  331. Well from the sounds of it, you won’t be changing that screen name anytime soon… Unfortunately.

  332. It’ll never not be funny that the same board that wanted Dubinsky gone and praised Sather for not retaining Prust now rants about a lack of playable toughness.

  333. (No one specific, but lets say 2/3 wanted those guys out and now 2/3 think we aren’t tough enough. Those bubbles overlap.)

  334. iWicky "Frag Out!!!" on

    Mr D
    I find it a bit amusing myself. If dubi made about 1.5 mil less (not that it mattered overall because he was involved in a trade you make 10 out of 10 times) he’d be worth keeping around. Same with prust, dollars a bit high.

    Personally, when I bring up examples and use specific player names, I generally use the names as a specific example of a playing style…ie I would love to see a mcilrath d man or two on our roster but would be perfectly happy if the d men were named bieksa and obrien.

  335. iWicky "Frag Out!!!" on

    Darren Dreger ? @DarrenDreger
    Gleason should be back mid-week. Sounds like a trade could materialize upon his return. He will have to consent to move.

    I wonder…

  336. Unfortunately Matty Boy, we’re going to have to wait until the end of this season to get a better indication of who are core players are and who they will be in the future. As well as what the salaries will be of the many “locked in” restricted free agents at the end of the season.

    The Rangers are in a rather unique situation compared to the other top teams because our rather deep young talent pool is still developing and improving. Thus, our core players are still to be determined… Not to mention that Sather could always bring in another core type player like he did with Nash. Slats has this team in a very good cap situation with it’s players. Much will be determined regarding this teams future and it’s core players this off season.

    By the way, players like McIlrath could wear what ever underwear they want!

  337. Also by the way, to clarify I ment talent pool… Not the pool that forms in the naval when one gets nervous.

  338. okay I am so glad for the win, but I am going to say it, after being raised with sarcasm from both of my parents, and I think jpg will agree, some of torts comments were funny and I didn’t always understand why people got so upset…but I was once told by a friend that people don’t always understand our family’s humor.

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