Rangers-Lightnings in review



1) Wow, just too, too easy for the home team. Did a lot of guys on defense, and the guy in goal, have a bad game? Sure did. Not that there’s any shame or blame on a goalie in giving up three breakaway goals, but Henrik Lundqvist got beaten three times high glove, and that’s always been his soft spot. He’s fought that in the past, and fixed it in the past. So his next start or two will be interesting.

2) That said, if Lundqvist had thrown a shutout, he would still have had to win a shootout.

st. louis3) So let the Calm Talbot/Lundqvist controversy begin … as crazy as that seems to be to me.

4) The Rangers sure do have a lot of games where they score one or none (this was No. 10, in 24 games). And Ben Bishop was really good, especially in the first period … you know, height shouldn’t much matter in a goalie, but with the size of the equipment they wear now, and the way goalies play on their knees, tall goalies really have a big edge. (also see: Cam Talbot).

5) Brutal start for a guy on the bubble,  Michael Del Zotto.  His man scores the first goal (on his first NHL shot), then he takes the penalty. Yeesh. This after that disastrous shift in the previous game, in which, otherwise, I thought he was OK. Must feel like a giant snowball rolling down a mountain.

6) But honestly, the top three D-men all struggled in this game. Marc Staal got beaten flat-footed by Martin St. Louis’s speed. That’s awareness. Then he took a bad penalty because he was beaten again. Dan Girardi and Ryan McDonagh, so good in Nashville, had a tough night overall, and though most of the blame for the second St. Louis goal goes to the center-ice turnover by Derek Dorsett, that’s awareness, too.

New York Rangers v Tampa Bay Lightning7) The Rangers took over  the first period after the second goal. Otherwise, you might wonder why Alain Vigneault didn’t use a timeout. He is apparently not a big proponent of the T.O. to stem momentum. Which I find interesting.

8) Dorsett’s staged fight was completely useless. Really dumb. The Rangers need him to be tough, and he is, but staged fights like that just put him in the box for five instead of being on the ice for real toughness issues, and give him more welts.

9) The 5-on-3 which had a chance to keep the Rangers in the game was atrocious, starting with Derek Stepan’s entry, and continuing through the point men playing too high, to Brad Richards getting badly beaten for a 3-on-5 breakaway. Game over.

10) On the fourth goal, Richards had every right to be furious, and he was, after being taken down and off the puck. You could have come up with any foul in the book to call there, but something had to be called. Maybe it would have been a good time for Richards to take a misconduct. Meanwhile, MSG Network — which also had a tough night — for some reason went to a closeup of the Tampa bench while Richards was going nuts on the officials.

New York Rangers v Tampa Bay Lightning11) Vigneault doesn’t like to change the lineup after a win. So maybe now J.T. Miller goes back in (and that probably depends on Taylor Pyatt’s availability). If not, then it’s time for Miller to go play in Hartford. This is doing the kid no good at all, sitting behind Benoit Pouliot. I also wonder if this changes the planned goalie rotation for the rest of the trip.

12) One of the changes he made late was taking Ryan Callahan off Rick Nash’s line. Nash is more comfortable on the right wing, the off-wing for a lefty shot. They forced Marian Gaborik to play the off-wing last season, too, and that worked out horribly. Nash and Richards … -3 each.

13) Vigneault was correct after the game: “Nobody touched a soul” (13 hits overall, three by the entire defense) all night long, didn’t make it difficult at all for the Lightnings. Not at all. I’d guess that Florida will see a different team Wednesday.

**********************************New York Rangers v Tampa Bay Lightning
My Three Rangers Stars:
1. Derick Brassard.
2. Derek Stepan.
3. Mats Zuccarello.
Your poll vote for Three Rangers Stars:
1. Anton Stralman.
2. Ryan McDonagh.
3. Cam Talbot.

Photos by Getty Images.

Twitter: @RangersReport.

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  1. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    13) I get that only 13 hits is terrible for a Rangers team with less quality than other top teams. I will take this opportunity to point out that hits aren’t generally a statistical category that a team should want to lead. The more hits a team has generally means the less possession of the puck they have.

    This year, the Hawks are in the bottom 10 of team hits along with the Canucks, Sharks (last) and a couple other quality teams.

    This leads me to a question for the team toughness advocates. The Blackhawks were last in the league in hits last season. Do the advocates of team toughness or the motto “difficult team to play against” believe that the Blackhawks were team tough last season?

    If so, then how do you define team toughness or difficulty to play against if not by team hits?

    If not, how did the Blackhawks stroll through the regular season as the best team and win the Stanley Cup if their team was not tough?

  2. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    3) There is no controversy. He stunk, but he is the centerpiece of the franchise unless he magically turns into Devan Dubnyk overnight.

  3. No goalie controversy here. We have a franchise player and an excellent backup who is glad to be where he is. It only becomes a controversy if Hank’s extension is not sorted out the closer we get to the trade deadline and if Cambot gets delusions of grandeur.

    Bad game all around, move on quickly but take your lessons and apply them next time out. I also can’t see the point in Miller being here if he is going to sit out for guys like Pouliot, unless they are showcasing Pouliot for a trade?

  4. Good morning, boneheads!

    Good review, Carp. Tough to do after a game like that.

    Hank should go right in on Wednesday and try to fix his high glove again. This is as far as their goalie controversy needs to go, IMHO. He wasn’t at his best but it wasn’t his fault. Too many mental mistakes on defense, giveaways, caught flat footed. Bishop was very good, no doubt. But they were SO 5 times in 24 games this season. AV needs to figure this out, so do the players.

  5. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    _He wasn’t at his best but it wasn’t his fault._

    Whose fault was it that he wasn’t at his best? Though being burned a couple times by his defense, he stunk. Enough with the blind loyalty.

  6. Send Henrik to Hartford for a game or two. Talbot deserved his number one spot. I just wonder, this sudden deterioration, is it equipment got smaller exposing Henrik’s small size or he is too preoccupied with new contract?

  7. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    He hasn’t declined. He just had a string of a handful of games of allowing 2 goals or less. He only got spunked at the beginning of the season because of an injury, team adjustment period to a new system and personal adjustment period to new pads.

  8. Stranger Nation on

    My Three Rangers Stars:
    1. *Derick Brassard*
    pigs flying over Westchester this am

  9. Stranger Nation on

    There is a center controversy with Brad Richards – he is really stinking it up out there. Nash draws 3 penalties, sets up four different golden opps and is rarely if ever getting the puck with time and space from the Bucky.

    This is a disaster

  10. St. Louis has ALWAYS owned Lundqvist…always scores highlight reel goals on him. Nothing new there, St. Louis is awesome and has LQ’s number. Tough.

    Cam should have started this game though after back to back shutouts. Lundqvist having a killer game has become the exception rather than the rule this season.
    i just don’t see how you sign this guy for 8 years at max dollar.

  11. the defense is to easy to play against. they need at least one if not two physical Dmen. Falk should play regularly.

  12. if the Rangers are not going to give Hank a max contract, and Hank will sign for nothing less. where does that leave you?

  13. They weren’t prepared to play. The Dads were all on hand for the win in Nashville, and — as has been true since the Stone Age — the NYR tend to exhale and congratulate themselves after a fairly meaningless regular season event.

    So they relax, slap themselves on the back, the American all get Poile-love and bask in it. Everyone hoist a few extras with their fathers on Sunday night, and mail it in on Monday. Not acceptable.

  14. Poulet was the best player on the ice last night. An absolute-force.

    I don’t see how this team goes anywhere without him in the lineup.

    Other teams must be dialing Sather’s number day and night trying to pry this guy.

  15. Know why the Rangers are only a 500 team? Because every time they win one, they lose one too. That’s what 500 teams tend to do, statistically. I’m no actuary , but….

  16. Stranger Nation on

    Sky is blue:
    5 game road trip – won first 2, lost 1, if win 1 or next 2 they have a winning trip. Had a lot of chances. Dorsett doesn’t mind getting hit in the back of the head.
    Sky is falling:
    Flat, not physical, can’t finish, weak glove hand, too many passengers, Richards is done, El Zotto is garbage.

  17. Matty"NashIsBack!!"Boy on

    Nice review, Carp!!

    #7 nice to see there IS momentum in a game. The momentum felt like it kept on creeping away in the 2nd and 3rd.

    #3 we live and die by our goalie. True, no goalie can score goals and there is a great deficiency of them on this poorly constructed team. BUT, Maloney said bluntly on radio that Hank needed to stop goal one. He does that, who knows what ‘momentum’ does???? He made other big saves, but HERE’s MY POINT:

    It’s unfortunate he doesn’t always get all the help in the world. Defensively, he is stranded at times (3 breakaways last night, more odd mans). Offensively, this team, as constructed, can’t score.

    BUT, ANYONE who makes the huge, lopsided bucks needs to be ready for anything every night. (Hank, especially will be, Nash, Richards). We spend 1/8th of our cap space on him and if he is ‘off’ for a night or two, we’re sunk. Can’t happen. Be ready, be prepared, be the best in the game for that dollar amount.

    He wasn’t. He needs to be our saviour. Is he?

  18. Matty"NashIsBack!!"Boy on

    Oh, and how about that Hedman kid on Tampa. How about a 6’6″, 235 lb., 22 year old that’s agile, has a shot, and can CLEAR THE CREASE????? How about Salo, and others that are BIG and TOUGH defensemen, even if their foot speed isn’t as good as MacD????

    Yep, we had a lotta shots. Bishop made some good saves, some great saves when we shot at his gut, especially. But, SUCH a sense of security having just one, two guys that can actually STOP ACTION in front of the net.

    How many of those do we have?

  19. Matty"NashIsBack!!"Boy on

    We need not take Florida lightly. They are playing with jump. However, we can beat them and I see us 4-1 on this road trip.

    I also look forward to seeing Torts on Saturday. Should be interesting.

  20. Hank-Staal – dom Moore 4 Simmons -Claude-1 of their goalies,,,,there I said it. Cut Richards and you are a whole lot younger. Package a pick with MDZ for a d-man or wait for off season. Ain’t going anywhere with a goal a night. Need forwards

  21. Imagine The Kreider and The Eberle on this team.

    add The Poulet and it’s an unstoppable force.

  22. I am pretty much over the whole Dorsett experience. If he is EVER mentioned in the same breath as Prust again, that person should be stoned to death.

  23. I seem to be the only one on this message board right now.

    This is a prefect time to announce my newfound allegiance to the Islanders.

    I’ve had enough of this amateur-hour, no-talent, dogs-breakfast-of-a-team.

  24. #4 Carp is spot on. We haven’t run into 10 hot goal tenders this year. How many games have the rookies score on us? Or the backup goal tender beat us in a game this year? Yet we ice guys that can’t score. Im afraid this is a .500 hockey club, they sure don’t have the skill to take a night off that’s for sure.

  25. I see today’s conversation is starting off right in my wheelhouse. THE PRUST is an irreplaceable player filled with intangibles and the ability to score short handed goals (and lead the league in that dept.)

  26. Stranger Nation on

    Just for the record Prust would have been manhandled in that fight last night and the ice on performance is pretty much a wash. Dorsett has some major b@lls taking on guys that size.
    Bigger issue is WHY does Dorsett have to be that guy?
    A wise philosopher once said this team is not built for POs…he is correct.

  27. “if the Rangers are not going to give Hank a max contract, and Hank will sign for nothing less. where does that leave you?”

    It leaves 75% of a season to see what this GhoalBuster kid can really do, it leaves potential Millions upon Millions in capspace to start building a Vigneault team. It leaves LQ in PIT, DET, CHI, or…..PHILLY.

  28. Sather Must Go! on

    Cant have a team with their biggest guys – Nash, Boyle, Pouliot, Pyatt, Staal providing no toughness/ grit and let Dorsett 5’9″ 170 go out and fight a heavy, when he is a middle (staged or not) ..this team was poorly constructed from the start – just waiting on BRich’ season-ending injury.

    Not a knock against AV, but, I think Torts’ had a major hand in roster election and constructing a much more balanced team..

  29. Amen Salty. Undoubtedly the Rangers will sign him to appease the fans and the reality is that these games will be the norm in a few years.

  30. Also, Dorsett apparently hurt Labrie in the fight somehow (maybe Labrie hurt his fist punching Dorsett while he was down) because Labrie left the game with an “upper body injury”

  31. Agree with SN at 8:52. Also, Dorsett is a hockey player, not a goon. The guy he fought last night ( wasn’t the smartest move, but he was at least trying to jump start his team) was a goon. That’s an issue.

  32. Stranger-spot on regarding Prust/Dorsett. Slather Must Go is on the money too. All of us loved Prust and what he brought every night, but let’s not get crazy. Nobody thought the Rangers should have matched the money Montreal offered. Dorsett is a small guy but he plays with a bigget heart than all the behemoths on this team put together.

  33. Eddie Eddie Eddie on

    What will Hank sign for? 8 years @ $80M? For that kind of money he better be able to stop some break- aways. If he won’t give any hometown discount, perhaps slats should insist on a high glove side discount. Looks like Zoolander still can’t turn to his left. “It’s the same look. Am I taking crazy pills”

  34. _Also, Dorsett apparently hurt Labrie in the fight somehow (maybe Labrie hurt his fist punching Dorsett while he was down) because Labrie left the game with an “upper body injury”_

    This is about the only thing that made me happy last night. Complete Rinaldo move throwing the late attempted KO punch but someone it ended up hurting him worse. Good.

  35. Can we stop calling Brad Richards “Bucky” ?

    I realize he is a professional athlete, and has 6 million reasons to inspire our criticisms, but can we base the bashing on his play, or his words /actions instead of his appearance? He can’t change that. Move on.

    Yes, he does himself no favor with that stupid blingy mouth guard/grill, but make fun of that instead of his teeth.

  36. _Nobody thought the Rangers should have matched the money Montreal offered._

    This isn’t exacty true.

  37. Dorsett has a TON of heart and I have no problem with him being on this team. And I agree with ilb that he’s a hockey player.

  38. Matty"NasherIsBacker"Boy on

    E3, and that’s becoming THE point. If you’re going to spend $8M+ for 8 years on a player, he is your ‘franchise player’. He gobbles up 1/8th of your cap.

    SO, he better be a game changer night in and night out.

    Nothing against Hank, he is a great goalie. But, he is proving a goalie is only as good as his team defense. Is any goalie, Hank or otherwise, worthy of that $$$ amount?

    It’s a rhetorical. I don’t know the answer. But I am leaning towards a ‘no’ on that.

  39. Rob in Beantown on

    The Hank of the last five years is 100% worth $7M+ per year. This year’s version not so much

  40. _Ok Mr. D. Maybe I overstated it a little bit. How a bout a vast majority_

    Cool. Just want to make sure my whining wasn’t so soon forgotten.

  41. Eddie Eddie Eddie on

    Not that it could ever happen, but Trade Poo-yo for Prust and Pyatt/MDZ for Dubi. Big improvement.

  42. With Rob. Just because we “need Henrik” to win doesn’t mean we can somehow guarantee he’ll play the next 7 like the last 7. Odds are he won’t, and that sucks, but that’s life.

  43. Matty"NasherIsBacker"Boy on

    But, Rob, when Sather let’s this go to the FA market, there will be one team, one team worth giving him more.

  44. Rob in Beantown on

    I just don’t see how you can offer Hank a maximum length contract at the dollars he wants when you have Talbot on the same team playing 1/3 of the games at a high level. I’m not even saying Talbot is better than Hank or anything, just that if nothing changes I don’t see how you can in god conscience spend your cap money that way.

  45. Eddie Eddie Eddie on

    Rob – werd

    Matty – your point and my point intersect at the same Cartesian point. Lines intersecting lines. In Non-Euclidian geometry, curves too are straight lines. Depends on the surface they’re on….


  46. Yup. Its not a talent evaluation or anything like that, its cap economics and forecasting on the aging curve. It sucks and I hate it, but he’s earned free agency and free agency means too many years if you don’t have a proactive GM.

  47. Eddie Eddie Eddie on

    Mr. D: the tenor of my post was not to actually trade players but have them morph, magically, into Prust and Dubi. Furthermore, I never asked you to stop with your nonsensical % comments re: Calbot and Hank’ s first whatever years….so please do in kind…

  48. Independent of signing Hank or not, the UFA class is not that exciting. You have 34 year old Marleau or Thornton, Vanek (who’s not the scorer he used to be, and 30), and Moulson (who has 2 goals in 12 games with Buffalo and wouldn’t be coming to an offensive powerhouse). I’m not even considering Alex Steen at this point.

    So, to significantly upgrade the team with younger talent, it will most likely have to happen via trade. But, then you’re giving up additional assets. I’m not sure what the right solution is.

  49. Matty"NasherIsBacker"Boy on

    Dorsett is not meant to be a heavyweight. He is meant to be a support fighting player. On this team, however, he is our ‘biggest and strongest’. How sad. How unfair to him and the team.

    Bigger guys are ‘supposed’ to be the heavyweights. You know, all the great over the hill guys like the Brashear’s, Scott’s, and whatever trash our GM has brought in as an afterthought, instead of drafting a huge 5th rounder that is 20 years old, makes $500k and does the same. It works out better this way. These losers are at the ends of their career, are oft injured, and get paid more. Helps with the mediocrity. You know.

  50. E3: My tone, which is tough to convey in the same font, was one of “stop, don’t make me cry”, not “stop being stupid”. 100%.

  51. Gravy, the solution is to … gasp … take a pass on the top of the UFA for a year. Don’t get the best available, wait for the actual best fit, even if it means … double gasp … ignore a perceived quick fix and … triple gasp … sitting on cap space. Not sure Sather can handle it, but really, take the chance on someone from a big 2014-15 class making it out.

  52. if you can’t, or won’t sign Hank, do you let him get to free agency as Ranger? or do you deal him by the deadline.

  53. Stranger Nation on

    Mr D – agreed; would keep Henk if we could afford to, but can we afford to spend the most cap space on a goalie? not saying Talbot is the answer and Henk is not the man, but where do you go from there?

    We are stuck in the middle again with clowns to the left (Sather), jokers to the right (Dolan)

  54. That’s fine, MD, but that’s not what boneheads are suggesting. They are saying not to sign Hank because we are going to magically find the solution to all the scoring woes.

  55. Stranger Nation on

    Gravy – we resign our own – Cally, Girardi, Brassard, Boyle, Kreider, J Moore, Falk.
    Jettison Buc…I mean, Secretariat
    Trade MDZ, Staal, Hank for teams poised to make a run and willing to give up younger talent
    Take out the other trash (Pullout, Pyatt, D Moore, Powe, Asham…
    Play McIlbust, Kristo, Johnson ;-)

    Breakign News: This team is not winning the Cup

  56. Another route is to buy out Richards, sign Hank and Phaneuf, and try to build a gritty defensive team. Phaneuf gives them a tough D-man that can play the PP point with McD.

    But, then that would be better suited for the other coach.

  57. I don’t believe in magic, but I’m sort of the same boat that you need the cap space for future scoring. Not so much because its easy to find or findable for 2014-15, but because that’s how good teams structure their cap. Its like a billion times easier to get passable goaltending at a cheap rate than getting top 6 production at that rate. So if you lock up $7.5MM on a goalie, especially one that _should_ be at or around the top of his career arc, you’re handicapping your ability to build the right way. Henrik has been awesome, but if he’s giving up 1.75 per game or struggling like now, I don’t think he’s a good bet on 7-8 years.

    (And there *is* a forward I like in this year’s class, even at an overpay.)

  58. Rob in Beantown on

    It’s going to be the years with Hank too. I’d give him the dollars he wants for 3 years right now, but does anybody feel comfortable giving him those dollars for 8 years?

  59. (And I still do float Hank and Girardi at the deadline if we don’t think we’re a legit contending team, just like we did last year with Gaborik. I don’t trade Callahan, he’s our real can’t lose UFA.)

  60. _Its like a billion times easier to get passable goaltending at a cheap rate than getting top 6 production at that rate_

    I’m not saying signing Hank is the right solution, but I disagree with this. Examples: Dunham, Weekes, Blackburn, Montoya, Johnson, etc.

  61. That’s can’t versus haven’t, Gravy. Every year the goalie leaderboards are splattered with cut-rate options performing at the highest level. The only times you see that on the goal scoring lists are pre-arb guys and the rare outlier.

  62. Jerry doing standup – “one minute there wasn’t my picture at the bottom of the comments to today’s post, and the next it’s there. How did that happen? Who caused it? What is going on?”

    I have to throw up now

  63. here is the deal I would make for Hank, and it is not for a forward. I would trade Hank to the Ducks, for Hiller, Gibson, and Vatanen.
    this gives you a goalie to share time with Talbot this year in Hiller. gives you your goalie of the future, in Gibson, and it gives you a good young offensive Dman in Vatanen. I said this over the summer, and I still think it today. this is a deal I would make.

  64. 2nd time in 3 games on this road to that our boys have not answered the bell to start. This team is not (Larry) good enough to mail in the first couple of shifts. I’m fairly sure this will be rectified on Friday or I might have trouble keeping down that 2nd piece of pie.

    Is it me or did I watch THE Kreider Florida vacation reality TV show last night. A BIG fan but he looked allergic to contact last night and lingered (this is for Dubeliveau) a TAD too long on the offensive zone. I expect him to rebound in his home turf against the team he’ll probably play for before the end of his career.

  65. Our perpetual trade partners in Phoenix could have been really interesting w/ Henrik if it weren’t for the insane contract they handed Mike Smith.

  66. Matty"NasherIsBacker"Boy on

    Sather was ‘smart’ enough to ‘understand’ the timing of needing to trade Gabby BEFORE he got to FA land. I don’t expect anything of “the smartest, best GM in hockey” (quote by James Dolan), but it appears he understood what to do to get value.

    Unfortunately, if his decision IS to trade Hank, goalies get less in return, usually. SO, just thinking through the way he is…..I could see him putting it out there, seeing there is minimal return, and then signing max.

    He tries not to look stupid, yet he often does.

    This is beginning to smell like Prust all over again.

  67. Stranger Nation on

    Bulldog – like the idea, but are they giving up that much for a UFA. would have to be conditional on Henk signing, no?
    I am good with Talbot being ‘goalie’ of the future. Goalies seem like relief pitchers; lots of them out there with ability to be good to very good. Would put more stock in D and O meself

  68. Sather Must Go! on

    Cant trade Hank – he is more than just what he does on the ice.. he is the face of the organization and Int’l superstar (and Man of Mystery) – having a tough go, right now, but still a top five goalie…

    I think Del Z has played himself into untradeable land- I seriously wonder if you can get a third round pick for him..my gues, is an)other) under-sized AHL prospect..

  69. Matty"NasherIsBacker"Boy on

    let me amend to 10:26 am:

    “Prust all over again”, meaning misplayed. Either sign Hank early and ‘free him’ of the emotional grief of not being ‘rewarded’ as the modern day athletes have come to feel, or trade him, but do whatever SOONER and don’t let it get to the deadline where no one wins.

    Unfortunately, we are dealing with a knucklehead.

  70. I would very much enjoy seeing Phaneuf on our blue line. I would also like to see Subban on our blue line. Offer Sheet anyone?

  71. Matty"NasherIsBacker"Boy on

    SMG…..we’ll take an undersized forward. Make sure he’s slow, too!!! 5’9-11″ and 185 pounds and he rounds out our AHL team!!!! Perfect-o!!!

  72. Matty"NasherIsBacker"Boy on

    Manny, while you’re at it, I’d like to see Shea “WWE” Weber. Speak of strength and crease clearing. Sheesh.

  73. Stranger Nation on

    So Henk is the face of mediocrity? I guess he will always have the Olympics to win something in…

  74. I would like to see a scenario where Evander K. outstays his welcome in Winnipeg and we trade for him and I cry from being happy.

  75. Sather Must Go! on

    exactly! unless, he shows some potential – then jettison him (P.A Parenteau)…that said: as mentioned before: No Del Z > Del Z..

  76. Matty"NasherIsBacker"Boy on

    Stranger, how true, my friend:

    “Clowns to the left of me (Sather),
    Jokers to the right (Dolan),
    Stuck in the middle with you (all we got is a .500 team, in the middle)”

  77. MD, I don’t see any decent starting goalies making less than $4M, except maybe Anderson. And most are making right around $6M/year.

    Would you sign Hank for 8 years, $6M per?

  78. Matty"NasherIsBacker"Boy on

    MDZ is such a calamity. I mean, the kid displayed talent. He did. And now that he’s mush, what do you do? I can’t believe it was the injury he had. Can’t be.

    Send him to the minors? Nope. Bench him? Maybe move him to his correct side and see if he plays back to the way he was? Last chance/gasp?

    I refuse to believe he is this bad.

  79. leetchhalloffame on

    I think at this point even the most optimistic of Ranger fans knows that this is just not a very good team. We just don’t have the talent. Sather has had more than enough time in “office.” FIRE SATHER.

  80. Threaten Hank with sign less or we trade you to Winnipeg. While his icy blue eyes would look nice against the backdrop of the icy tundra, he’d have to wear long underwear under his skinny jeans…and that’s just too way gay…

  81. ‘And I hear from Joey Mich that he likes Richie Rich
    I got the paddock noise, his dad was Equipoise
    And the morning line has him at five to nine –
    Can do, Can do, this guy says the horse can do’

  82. Matty"NasherIsBacker"Boy on

    Gravy, Hank is one of the best goalies in the world. The dilemma is not about him, it’s the cap. Agreed, we need a goalie, and aside from a ‘kid’ making $2-3M, we will be paying $5-6M for anyone else. SO, if it will be $7.5-8.0-8.5M, whatever…..I say, just make the decision, Sather, and DO IT. Either way.

    But don’t let it linger.

  83. what was Crawford making last year when he won the cup? how about Neimi when they won the cup.

  84. Rob in Beantown on

    Crawford was making $2.7M when they won the cup, but that was an RFA contract. His new contract is for $6M, which seems to be the going rate for good goaltenders.

  85. Sather Must Go! on

    The intermediate/longer term prob with Hank/Salary cap is lack of organization depth (front and back line) and all the draft picks we have traded (Nash, Clowe) and not gotten back (Gabby)…

    tough situation which becomes impossible when BRich gets hurt and cant buy him out..

  86. Hank will sign in the $7.5-8m range for the full 8yrs. Soon.
    Chances are Slats is using his early season form and the emergence of Cambot to try and drive Hank down by $.5m or so.

  87. I’m not saying I’m necessarily against not signing Hank, I just don’t think there’s any quick fix solutions. And, I’m not convinced that Talbot is Wellman yet.

  88. According to what I read earlier the CBC deal alone will add $3-4m to the cap, so we could be looking at a $74m cap next year as they were talking about $70m even without a bumper new TV contract.

  89. Hank is going to get all the money. And he deserves it. I don’t believe that a Goaltender, although vital to your success, should be the highest paid guy on your squad, but that’s the way it seems to be.

    For me, it’s the Rask contract that will dictate Hanks.

  90. Rob in Beantown on

    I agree the Rask contract will probably dictate Hank’s and said as much awhile back. I just sadly don’t think Rask is a good comp for Hank today. Rask is the best goalie in the world and he is 25 years old. Hank is the former best goalie in the world and he is 32. It doesn’t really make sense that their contracts look the same, even though there is a good chance they will.

  91. _MD, I don’t see any decent starting goalies making less than $4M, except maybe Anderson. And most are making right around $6M/year._

    The median cap hit for goalies w/ 15+ games this year is $3.9MM.

    _Would you sign Hank for 8 years, $6M per?_

    I hate 8 years. Its just such a bad idea.

  92. _For me, it’s the Rask contract that will dictate Hanks._

    This is my fear. Boston is paying Rask (5 years younger) to play like Henrik did for the past 8 years over the next 8. Takes him to age 34. We’d be paying Henrik to defy age and odds to do it again for another 8 years, through 40.

  93. Goalies w/ 15+ GP by 2013-14 Cap Hit:

    Tuukka Rask: $7.0MM
    Henrik Lundqvist: $6.9MM
    Carey Price: $6.5MM
    Ryan Miller: $6.3MM
    Kari Lehtonen: $5.9MM
    Jonathan Quick: $5.8MM
    Mike Smith: $5.7MM
    Sergei Bobrovsky: $5.6MM
    Roberto Luongo: $5.3MM
    Jimmy Howard: $5.3MM
    Marc-Andre Fleury: $5.0MM
    Jonas Hiller: $4.5MM
    Ondrej Pavelec: $3.9MM
    Antti Niemi: $3.8MM
    Jaroslav Halak: $3.8MM
    Tim Thomas: $3.8MM
    Devan Dubnyk: $3.5MM
    Craig Anderson: $3.2MM
    Jonathan Bernier: $2.9MM
    Semyon Varlamov: $2.8MM
    Corey Crawford: $2.7MM
    Ben Bishop: $2.3MM
    Josh Harding: $1.9MM
    Braden Holtby: $1.9MM
    Steve Mason: $1.5MM

  94. _I’m basing my Hank estimates on the Rinne, Rask, Crawford and Quick contracts._

    Those guys all go to 36 or 37. Without blowing the comps, Hank would get a 5-6 year deal.

  95. Everyone in the NHL wants to play on the Olympic Team for basically nothing. We should change our name to the Manhattan Olympics.

  96. How about Hank and Girardi to Toronto for Bernier, JVR, Reilly, Biggs, Gardiner, Franson and the 90s version of Wendel Clark?

  97. AV says it was “The Marty St. Louis Lovefest out there.” And he didn’t even have to listen to SalmonJoe.

  98. Fatso was still going good till last year (his 40th) at $5.2m. That was signed in 2006 when the cap was $44m and he was 33/34 yrs old.
    Based on cap inflation that would be $7.56m if that contract was signed this year.

    Just sayin’

  99. Rob in Beantown on

    Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger
    NYR rumored in deals on daily basis. Defenceman Dylan McIlrath has earned a chance given his play in AHL. Perhaps, a trade isn’t necessary?

  100. Rob in Beantown on

    Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger
    No match between Sens and NYR on Del Zotto. Told Ott made Gryba, Greening and Condra available. Fit wasn’t right for NYR.

  101. UK: I’m probably ok with 6 years on Henrik for $7.5MM, its just that every year after 5 makes me cringe at an exponential level. As does hoping he keeps pace with historic outliers.

  102. “Would you sign Hank for 8 years, $6M per?”

    Yes, only because that will be considered an absolute steal when compared to what we actually give him. And we WILL be giving it to him. Sather may know better in this case…but I can’t imagine DolanDentures will allow Handsome Prince Henry to be cut loose.

    Sather knows he’s between a rock and a hard place on this one. I’m kind of proud of him for not ponying up just yet. He will though, against better judgement, he will.

  103. I’m guessing the hold up is Hank’s agent trying to prise those extra 2 years out of Slats and Slats trying to lowball him to give up the extra 2 yrs…

  104. While we’re on subject what about Cally, Girardi, Boyle and Stralman? Which I assume we will make reasonable attempts to keep before they hit UFA.

    My guesses:
    Cally $5m / 8 yrs
    Girardi $4m / 3 yrs
    Boyle $2m / 2yrs
    Stramalamadingdong $2m / 2yrs

    feel frre to rip them to pieces!

  105. Love Cally to DEATH…would not give him 8 years though. The tread on his tires is likely going to wear pretty quickly the way he gives 110% every single night. I’d do $6X6 for him.

  106. UK, I’ll bet you’re low on AAV for all four. Especially Girardi, I bet he gets seriously, for real paid this offseason. Like Clarkson paid.

  107. Also, on that list I bet Callahan is the only one we retain. Stralman I won’t care, Girardi I’ll miss but not at his terms, Boyle I’ll cry and cry and cry. Then when other teams top lines just weirdly seem to score more against us next year than in prior years and people can’t figure out why, I’ll get really mad.


    John Moore to Second Pairing with Staal. McLlrath and Del Zotto on third pair!

  109. Blind Faith……

    Well I’m near the end and I just ain’t got the time
    And I’m wasted and can’t find my way home.

  110. I think we need to give a careful look at what the cap may amount to next year before making those decisions. It may be much more promising than even expected, especially now with that incoming new TV deal. Or, better yet, let the pros deal with it. And, no I’m not talking about Sather. He has people who know a thing or two about it.

  111. jimG the desertrat on

    thanks to Carp and all the boneheads for great chuckles and insights …this is serious business

  112. Also, two guys were assigned to the ECHL including Stajcer.

    Jeff Malcolm (G) Hartford ADD Recalled from loan to Greenville (ECHL)
    Scott Stajcer (G) Hartford DEL Reassigned by N.Y. Rangers (NHL) to Greenville (ECHL)

  113. If Sather let Clark draft and his cap people cap and just handled the trades, he’d be a pretty neat GM.

  114. Did the force of the puck break Staal’s stick on the 1st St. Louis goal or did he intentionally pass it directly to St. Louis thinking he was sending Zuccarello in on a breakaway?

    Or maybe he was caught ‘flat footed’?

  115. Stranger Nation on

    Gorton’s nickname is ‘The Cleaner’
    Does he wipe the seat after Slatsko visits the head also?

  116. I was in the Navy with an indian electrician. When he got out, he went home and wired a head for a reservation.

  117. _Love Cally to DEATH…would not give him 8 years though. The tread on his tires is likely going to wear pretty quickly the way he gives 110% every single night. I’d do $6X6 for him._

    Dustin Brown signed an 8 year, $5.875M AAV contract, so it’s going to be 8 years and right around $6M per.

  118. Strange…Either flat feet or wearing two left skates – your choice doesn’t really matter.

    Staals days as an All-Star DMan were brief and apparently ended courtesy of his big Bro Eric. Thank The Lord Stralsie is there most times to cover-up for him.

  119. Rob in Beantown on

    How is a bad winger contract not as bad as a bad goalie contract? The cap money is all fungible and you’re eating it either way

  120. Because a winger you can adjust usage. If Callahan can’t play 1st/2nd line minutes at the end, he can still contribute as an overpaid 3rd. A goalie you’re either accepting poor production or completely sinking money.

  121. Buffalo is so awful its impossible to tell where the players are making the team bad and where the team is making the individual players bad.

  122. If Talbot finishes the season somewhere around the form we’ve seen so far (he could be even better), he should be a very valuable trade commodity. Probably be worth more in a trade next summer than Lundqvist would be, in season.

  123. Buffalo. No jobs. 8 inches of snow today so far. Bills and Sabres. Statue of OJ. Sad doings. Send condolences.

  124. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    Nobody answered the team toughness question, because there was no answer. Team toughness being responsible for success is a myth, as is Prust’s value to the Rangers. One of the wisest decisions of Sather’s tenure was letting Prust walk.

  125. Love all the trade Hank talk, ha. I will say this though, goalies do need to play themselves out of a funk, but in this case, with the start to the season we had, we don’t really have time for that. Granted, nobody is running away with it. I would just play the hot goalie. Let Talbot play until he loses one and then do the same with Hank. Allaire needs to work on Hank’s glove with him. He seemed to have corrected it for a while, but it looks like he’s been playing back in his net again recently. Hank is still top 3 goalies in the league and you don’t just trade that away when he is having a rough stretch. He will work his way out of it. The shutouts against have to stop though. 5 times already this year is unacceptable. Hot goalie or not.

  126. Wow, so it looks like Hank against Panthers and Cam against Boston then Hank against Vancouver on Saturday. I am going on Saturday. Anyone else?

  127. Matty".500Mediocrity"Boy on

    I guess the one nagging question with Hank is does he have what it takes to be clutch in the NHL? We have seen isolated games, moments, periods, shifts.

    But when the chips are down, when the season’s on the line, is HE the one?

    I don’t know. I felt really comfortable with Ricky Richter. He was clutch over and over and over. Hank? Time will tell, I guess.

  128. Matty".500Mediocrity"Boy on

    Nasty1, I am going and can’t wait!!

    I will be the one standing ovation for the guy who gave us one of the best coaching performances EVER on Broadway 2 years ago. That mess of a team had no business almost going to the finals. Zero, none. Great coaching that year.

  129. I think they’re pushing Richie a bit. Seems he’s been pussyfooting nearer the boards lately. Each time he quickly emerges sans puck. Fruitless, but…

  130. Matty".500Mediocrity"Boy on

    Hank is used to playing more games than he has been allowed this year. Anyone think that could be affecting his level of play?

  131. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    I don’t think there is any way to definitively measure the clutch-ness of a goalie, but we definitely have seen Hank stink up the joint in many aplayoff games. The entire series against the Bruins several months ago is a prime example.

  132. iWicky "Frag Out!!!" on

    I still think one of the reasons we don’t score is we have no one going to the opponents crease with malicious intent!

    It isn’t pure talent that keeps us from scoring, it’s lack of malicious intent.

  133. Matty".500Mediocrity"Boy on

    Kenneth, how much of his play was a result of the team in front of him being nowhere as good as their opponent? Tell me, how do you quantify that?

  134. Matty".500Mediocrity"Boy on

    Wickster, I don’t disagree. THere are a whole bunch of teams we can’t get near the front of the net for rebounds. A slew, also, that we are so rushed for that we get no quality shots. You have to play big in this league to be a top team.

  135. Rob in Beantown on

    I remember a lot of things that sucked about the Bruins series, but Hank isn’t at the top of that list

  136. Not sure what to do about Hank. But Talbot’s numbers are ALOT better on paper. I’m ok if he gets a few more games. You know Hank is going to be in net during the Olympics. So I can see Talbot playing more afterwards.

  137. Laugh all you want, Manny, but over the course of a 100 game playoff series, 2 goals could be the difference between winning and losing.

  138. hey everyone, I’m back! Fresh off tying the know and enjoying the honeymoon in Hawaii and back to the same treading water as when I left :(

  139. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    The goalie is the last line of defense, ultimately it’s his responsibility to keep the puck out of the net. Hank’s play was a top reason why we got spunked by the Bruins. The series began with Hank allowing a soft first goal to Chara and continued with him allowing goals to Krug.

  140. He had a .919 SV% against the Bruins, and he shutout the Caps in back-to-back elimination games. The Rangers weren’t on the same planet as the Bruins in that series, be it talent, *fatigue*, or injury.

  141. Gravy didn’t the Bruins steam roll the Penguins as well. Bruins are made for playoff hockey. They roll 4 lines, and have to be one of the toughest teams to play against.

    Rangers still can’t beat the Bruins or Pittsburgh in a seven game series.

    But then again we aren’t going to beat many teams scoring 1 or NONE in the goal department.

  142. In the Rangers 7 playoff losses last year, they scored 8 goals total (6 goals in the 4 losses to the Bruins). So, I’d say they primary reason they got spanked was because they couldn’t score enough.

  143. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    Rask had a .936 SV%.

    Rask also had a .923, .985, .932 SV% in his other 3 playoff series. Hank won the Capitals series, but didn’t contribute in the Bruins series.

  144. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    4 of the 5 games were essentially 1 goal games. The Rangers were very much in the series, it’s incorrect to suggest otherwise.

  145. They were “in” the series because of Lunqvist, not in spite of him. He faced 37 shots per game, and most were higher quality. Rask faced 31 shots per game.

    Rask was also bailed out in the *1st* round because his team scored 3 goals in the final 7:00 of game 7, after he had surrendered 4 (on 28 shots).

  146. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    There is no existence of proof of higher quality shots. The Rangers got beat by better goaltending. The difference in SV% was likely the difference in the series.

  147. thanks for the congrats folks. We stayed in Waikiki it was both of our first times there and it was amazing such a great time.

  148. Rask *choked* against Chicago and that makes him the *chokingest choker* and the *worst goalie* because it came on the *biggest stage*.

  149. I discovered I loved snorkeling. The underwater world is quite captivating.

    did the pearl harbor memorials, hiked to some waterfalls and relaxed on the beach.

  150. I’m going to guess the boos will drown out the cheers, as boos are usually louder and by people who feel more strongly one way than the other. Some will cheer. The boos will stand out.

    Some people would have hated him if he won two Cups here. Keenan was booed his first time back after the Cup (of course, he was greasing his own way out of town during the finals).

  151. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    Torts deserves cheers, nothing exorbitant though. Booing is for idiots.

  152. Stranger Nation on

    Why boo Torts? Didn’t he get fired? What did he do wrong?

    Agree or disagree with his methods and motives, but Torts has *the most wins of any coach* for this franchise since 1939.

  153. Stranger Nation on

    my bad – 2nd most wins – need to add up all of The Cat regimes so all time is Patrick, then Francis and then the dog lover.

  154. Stranger Nation on

    Sioux – we are cheering MonteKristo and Wrath of Mac getting on the Merritt parkway for a game at the Garden

  155. Jonathan Quick Stats are better in the playoffs verse the regular season.

    Regular season: SA% – .914 GAA-2.36

    Playoffs: SA%-.929 GAA – 2.03

  156. SN – IF you get a “WE WANT KRISTO” cheer going, make sure you get a video on your phone for me :)

    That would almost do for Christmas.

  157. Rob in Beantown on

    Won’t the crowd be too busy checking their email and eating roast beef sandwiches to boo or cheer anybody?

  158. Without doing the research, I have a hunch most elite or Stanley Cup winning goaltenders stats follow a similar pattern to Quick and Roy -higher save % and lower GAA in playoffs compared to regular season.

    Though not Hank , FWIW.

  159. I can’t wait till The KRISTO KID gets a chance shoot up broadway!

    What’s it going to take?
    How many ZERO goal games will it take, before AV gives kid a shot?

    I couldn’t even get the words out of my mouth fast enough last night telling the wife that Tampa calls up the leading scorer from the AHL, but the Rangers can’t. And Kucherov scores on his first shot!

    I said to myself I hope he goes “Hertl” on the Rangers.

    Not thinking the team would.

  160. Lundqvist’s “playoff” problem is that he has yet to turn in a really sustained dominant playoff performance. I’m not talking a game or a single series, I’m talking multiple series.

    If we’re going to place him in the top 3 of NHL goalies and presumably pay him like that for the next 6 to 8 years – at some point he has to have a year where he is the man and plays head and shoulders above his regular season stats in the playoffs.

    Roy, Brodeur, Hasek, even more recently Thomas and Quick all had years where they were close to lights out in the playoffs and were way better statistically than their regular season numbers. For as good as Lundqvist is, until he has that year he’s going to have his critics – especially for what he’s going to get paid.

  161. JJP- the logic fails to take into consideration what team played in front of him. And that if it wasn’t for him, the team simply wouldn’t even make the playoffs most of those years. While the same team remained in front of him, they had to face a much better opposition during the playoffs. Do you want to talk about the teams Tim Thomas and Jonathan Quick played with what played in front if him? One year they looked good, they couldn’t score more than 1-2 per game while LA scored at will.

  162. It’s easy to say “until he proves he can”. I’d like to know how many Cups he’d have if he played in Chicago since last lockout. Boston? Pittsburgh?

  163. Stranger Nation on

    Reverse argument is to make team in front better so less of a need to rely on highly paid goalie. Not a Henk hater, just trying to figure out how the $$ works

  164. I’m with Rob. I think people will be too busy to even remember who Tort is. Brooks will notice though. You can count on that.

  165. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    _And that if it wasn’t for him, the team simply wouldn’t even make the playoffs most of those years._

    As Mister D states, making the playoffs is a team accomplishment. Advancing to the Eastern Finals is a team accomplishment. If Hank can’t be faulted for team failure, then he can’t be credited with team success.

    In the 2011-12 season, the Rangers were 11th in the league in scoring at 2.72 goals per game.

  166. SN- you need to structure a said team before you can get rid of what kept you afloat most of these years. Simply having money available doesn’t mean you get the players. Teams tend to lock up their assets, what comes on the market isn’t what it used to be. And you need to look at the Cap before assuming it’ll be a problem. I don’t think it will.

  167. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    There’s no way to no how many Cups he’d have if he played elsewhere. The best way to determine his success is via a statistical analysis. As JJP illustrated, he has not yet had a sustained, dominant playoff performance.

  168. Ilb is right. It’s all about balance. You have to win when you have the right youngsters surrounding the right superstars because of the cap. It’s very, very hard to find that balance and hit your stride all at the same time.

  169. Playoff hank is fine if we could, hmm what do you call it? Oh yeah, score a few goals. Let’s recall that wicked power play we saw the last two springs. IDK, maybe there is something to that -1 to 0 score that gets bandied about.

    Get me some goals, ugly ones, highlight reel, slap shots, tip ins doesn’t matter.


  170. Bying out Richards and his $6.67M covers what needs to be paid to retain Hank, Girardi, and Callahan. The Cap will go up, probably higher and faster than predicted because of this new TV deal. People forget that this year the Cap is exactly what it was before shortened season. Plus, the Rangers still have young, relatively cheap players who they have control over for years.

  171. Ilb, the point was presented earlier that Hanks #’s are consistently the same in regular season and playoffs. I say so what?

    If games are tighter, closer checking, less power plays etc. during playoff hockey, shouldn’t that be reflected in a Goaltenders stats when compared with the regular season? Hanks playoff numbers do not, FWIW.

  172. ilb2001, I see your point and it’s fair. That said, I think you could point to some of the teams a Brodeur or Hasek had in front of them and still point to playoff years where they turned it up a notch. I’m not saying Lundqvist isn’t good, he’s great. But in a salary cap world you have to weigh performance against the cost. Up until Rask’s contract, I believe Lundqvist was the highest paid goalie and he will be again next year.

    The performance has to match the cost and to date I’d say it’s a toss-up. You can’t pretend that the incremental dollars spent on Lundqvist wouldn’t have gone back into (hopefully) better players in other parts of the line-up. I’d also point out that if you believe that Staal, McDonagh and Girardi are the defensive studs they’re made out to be by the commentators here, his job should be even easier.

  173. Numbers don’t tell the whole story, Papa. Like the quality of shots faced. Same GAA against Florida and Chicago, for example, doesn’t tell the whole story. How about the difference between playing with a couple of goals lead vs 0-0 game, or playing from behind?

  174. Henrik is 10th all-time in playoff save percentage. The only goalie better who has played more games is Hasek. None of the other 8 are within 10 games played. Henrik has never been the problem.

  175. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    _Like the quality of shots faced._

    There is no proof that quality shots exist.

  176. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    _The performance has to match the cost and to date I’d say it’s a toss-up. You can’t pretend that the incremental dollars spent on Lundqvist wouldn’t have gone back into (hopefully) better players in other parts of the line-up. I’d also point out that if you believe that Staal, McDonagh and Girardi are the defensive studs they’re made out to be by the commentators here, his job should be even easier._

    Once again, bellissimo!

  177. _There is no proof that quality shots exist._

    So a soft wrister from the blueline into the logo is the same as a shot from slot through a screen?

  178. Stranger Nation on

    Do not believe Hank is a problem, but the question posed; if we cannot win it all in a cap constrained world with him because of the lack of available FAs, what does it matter? In 2020, we are going to be paying this guy $8M per? really?

    Level of comp also comes into play along with team in front of you. Bestern conf is WAY better than Leastern so a ‘Quick’ Cup run through West is much more impressive than beating FLA, WASH or OTT.

    It’s all relative.

  179. matty"PlayTough"boy on

    Well, you may look at all your statistics, but I will GUARANTEE the quality of shots, over a career, that Fatso faced, with Stevens, Daneyko, Neidermeyer, and a whole team trapping in molasses and pushing to the outside, was just a tad lighter than the in your face, front of the crease shots that teams that played against the Rangers with Hank or Richter saw.

    Likewise, with Chara, Hamilton, Seidenberg, and a whole bunch of goons, playing against an offensively inept team such as the Rangers, the “QUALITY” of shots on Hank was quite different than the “QUALITY of shots on Rask.

    I don’t need statistics to know that.

  180. _There is no proof that quality shots exist._

    No, there is proof quality shots exist. There is no known way of properly quantifying this.

  181. Rob in Beantown on

    I think you can make an argument that given a large enough sample shot quality will average out to be the same. Over the course of a season that might be true. A game or even a playoff series maybe not

  182. matty"PlayTough"boy on

    Patrick Roy would be the first to thank his teammates for his career stats. Quality shots or not.

  183. matty"PlayTough"boy on

    Kenneth, why do you think Corey Crawford was able to win the cup with Chicago. What do you think happens you put him on the Rangers?

  184. Huge Hank fan but really see the argument against paying him big for the long haul.
    Playoff Hank is would be fine if we could score a few. What’s the rangers goal scoring numbers in the playoffs? How about the PP % in the playoffs?

    Kick in a few goals here and there.

  185. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    _Kenneth, why do you think Corey Crawford was able to win the cup with Chicago. What do you think happens you put him on the Rangers?_

    It definitely didn’t have anything to do with team toughness. The Blackhawks were dead last in hits last season.

  186. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    That said, my belief is that Hank is the centerpiece of the franchise, and as ilb2001 said, when the team’s main asset is Hank, you lock him up long-term no matter the cost. He’s the known quantity and his career consistency makes him a prudent re-signing.

  187. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    So what = toughness, then? If you have nothing with which to measure toughness, then how do you know we don’t have enough toughness or how much toughness is needed?

  188. _There is no proof that quality shots exist, or more accurately, that it doesn’t exist as a repeatable phenomenon._

    We’re talking retrospective. Quality has varied from goalie to goalie NHL inception to date.

  189. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    Since it’s not a repeatable phenomenon, that is incorrect. Unless you believe that the Rangers are special in that regard, they neither allow more or less “quality shots” than any other team.

  190. Believing because you can’t quantify plus or minus means that it must be even is the incorrect assumption here, Ken.

  191. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    Quality shots is not unquantifiable. It’s been proven to be non-existent, or more accurately, non-existent as a repeatable phenomenon. Therefore, you are incorrect.

    Toughness is being very difficult to play against, which is subject to the eye test, meaning it’s unsubstantiated. Mister D is correct, unsubstantiated does not mean non-existent. Unsubstantiated means it shouldn’t be relied upon when making decisions to construct a team.

  192. Big advocate of Hank. Get into arguments all the time about his abilities. Question that keeps coming up that I have trouble answering is: What is Hanks signature playoff series win to date? Thoughts?

  193. I’m not a big stats guy. I don’t think anyone can be totally stats or totally eyes. Sorry, but stats don’t tell the entire story.

  194. Ilb, you are preaching to the choir about numbers not telling the whole story!!

    My examples were simply posited to counter the inference made earlier that Hank is a clutch playoff performer based on the minimal differential determined when comparing his regular season and playoff numbers. I say again, So What?

    As I said previous, big deal. When presenting a case to sign him to a to a max contract, I’d much rather hear his playoff numbers are better than his regular season stats, like Quick, Roy, Fatso, Dryden, Parent etc…

  195. And now, it son to the Izod Center for Disney on Ice with the sweetest little and big girls around, my Grandaughter and wife!

    Have a good night Boneheads!

  196. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    Stats don’t tell the whole story, they tell most of the story.

  197. Hits is a worthless statistic since it’s a subjective call by a home scorer. I believe the bias is well documented.

  198. Chicago isn’t tough to play against, they are just tough to beat. They roll 3 lines that can score, and 4th will shut you down defensively. Their D doesn’t make many mistakes, and they have people that actually score on the Power Play.

    Ranger have no where near the skill the Hawks have.

  199. Flush last nights game.

    Rookie scores on his first shot. Rangers out play them the 1’st period, but lose the period by 2 goals.

    Move on – Rangers win 2 out 3, maybe we can steal the win in Boston and win 4 out of 5.

  200. No hits last night Sioux, it was a love fest for Marty St. Louis. AV said nobody touched a soul out there.

  201. _Quality shots is not unquantifiable. It’s been proven to be non-existent, or more accurately, non-existent as a repeatable phenomenon. Therefore, you are incorrect._

    Except I’m not. Not repeatable simply means Henrik’s career-to-date, be it easier, tougher or even, doesn’t predict his future. His past is his past and his past is, more or less, unknown.

  202. I agree SeeDubb! Those were great games.

    He needs some help from the scoring department, sooner or later.

    The power play was looking better, just NOT last night.

  203. As a fan of hockey, I was amazed at St. Louis wrist shot, so sick. So close, and he stoned Henrik.

    Those were goals from a goal scorer.

  204. I’m more of a fan of Old School Hockey. AV trying to play a speed game. It’s fun to watch, the back and forth, it is. But we don’t have any “St. Louis” hands out there. Nash has them, but he is still a little rusty.

    THE KREIDER – didn’t really show up last night, not the nasty one that finishes checks, and blows by people.

    NOW, if we lose to Florida, the ledge is going to get NASTY!

  205. Eddie Eddie Eddie on

    Hank needs a quicker glove hand or he needs to come out, cut down the angle, and challenge the shooter.

  206. Time to pack it in boys, go home and watch Fowler play against Dallas.

    Fowler is hot, I had to add him to the fantasy team…… don’t really say that about McIlrath now do ya?

  207. Now against St. Louis last night, does anyone stop that shot, that close, that quick. IF they do there’s a little bit of luck getting a piece of either one of them.

  208. Who do you want playing against the Bruins?

    Henrik with 2.51 7-10


    Cam with 1.41 5-1.

    Cam’s numbers are starting to look good where he is going to have to play against some of better teams.

  209. Cams been very solid, a very nice surprise to be sure but I’m not ready to anoint him just yet.

  210. Kenneth at clinchers of '89Flames '94Rangers '96Avs on

    I will try explaining this a different way. It’s not repeatable from a team standpoint or an opposition standpoint. His career has not been easy or tough, with regards to shot quality, unless every team facing the Rangers consistently produces higher quality shots against them. Understanding that it’s unrepeatable, that can’t be and will not be in the future.

    Putting that disagreement on the back burner, arguing that Hank faces more quality shots (something there is no measure for) than goalies on other teams as an illustration, does not hold water.

  211. Eddie Eddie Eddie on

    You could also argue that under Torts, the rangers led the league or near the top in blocked shots, which impacts Hank’s numbers up and down. While blocked shots make his GAA look better, the number of screens and Dman deflections make his GAA look worse. My final conclusion: His numbers suffered from Tort’s system.

  212. While I was trying to estimate what that amount would mean in terms of annual extra cap increase per each team ( hard to do without knowing what is the league’s cost involved) I realized that the number may be sufficient for Sather to think that he doesn’t have to buy out Richards. Talk about instant palpitations.

  213. Ilb, I was hoping you would break it down but certainly didn’t expect that scary piece of news.

  214. No Gomez improves any team: addition by subtraction.

    Kathryn Tappen is wearing skin tight black leather pants. Talk about the lizard king….”got to love her madly,,,,”

  215. when’s the last time someone slammed their stick on the ice because they missed a 40 foot slapper? All shots are equal.

  216. eddie eddie eddie on

    JR – “im sick and awake of carp’s blog out to foolish my own personal thoughts and in sights”

  217. eddie eddie eddie on

    JR – “carp, why do you paramountly allow any of the intuitive attacks persistently?”

  218. eddie eddie eddie on

    JR – “by the time i retired from the NHL, i was finished playing this great game”

  219. Prust and Dorsett have played under Torts. Both Prust and Dorsett have played on a line with Brian “Who’s my snook’ums?” Boyle.

  220. JR on The Kreider: “He has exsquintidential speed and is able to deconsilate opponents with his physical play”.

  221. Carp, excellent review of a game I fell asleep watching. Missed the fifth goal. “Nobody touched a soul” does sum it up. I agree with you on that Dorsett fight. Useless time in the box for a guy who has played some useful minutes of late.

    A lot of boneheads stating the case for more Talbot. Which I don’t think is a bad thing necessarily. I do wonder if he could handle what Hank did in first period in Dallas.

    Is there a stat on how many goalies the Rangers have made look like Dryden, Roy, etc. this year?

    I think they collectively wake up in Sunrise tomorrow night. If not, They will be in for a ride awakening in Boston. It will be hit or be hit in Beantown on “Black and Blue Friday”.


  222. “Is there a stat on how many goalies the Rangers have made look like Dryden, Roy, etc. this year?”

    This year, Romeo? This has been a NYR phenomenon at least since the lockout, ESPECIALLY if the goalie is a rookie or backup.

  223. Torts must be saying “It wasn’t me!”

    Through 24 games last year:
    13-9-2; 63 GF, 58 GA

    Through 24 games this year:
    12-12-0; 48 GF, 59 GA

  224. Interesting player I dislike is on the market apparently in CT born Max Pacioretty. In the first year of a 6 year deal at $4.5M per.


  225. Stranger Nation on

    Romeo – guess Nash’s and Gabby’s absence, Step’s slow start and Hags and Cally’s injury play into that.

    Any other excuses? Sun in their eyes? Harvest Moon? Banff trip?

  226. I missed the discussion about Hank’s save percentage, and quality shots faced. so I would like to add my 2 cents. playoff goaltending is about neither. its about making the big save, in a big spot. that could be at any point in the game. for example, Rangers comeback from 3 goals down in game 5 against the Devs to tie the game. Hank lets one in shortly after. that is what playoff goaltending is about.

  227. eddie eddie eddie on

    Romeo – on the flip side, i suspect many Nucks fans are saying something similar about their team this year…know what I’m sayin?

  228. JR preaching The Art of War to a youth Hockey Clinic: “Okay boys listen up. It is wise when planning for victory, to hope the opponent doesn’t also plan for victory, cause when you lose, you may have wished you planned for a tie instead.”

  229. Agree Carp, mentioned that earlier. It certainly wasn’t the vaunted power play that won that series.

  230. eddie eddie eddie on

    on the Art of War

    JR – “when stronger become stronger. If faced faced with a stronger opponent, become most stronger”

  231. If the Rangers are ever to win a cup with Hank in net, he has to play at the top of his game through 4 best of seven series. Nothing less.

    So far during his career, it hasn’t happened. He has had flashes of greatness, but not yet come close to sustaining the high level of play necessary to win 4 consecutive playoff series.

    No stat contrived will convince me otherwise.

  232. JR: ” Successful war follows the path of deception, so when given the oppurtunity to fess up, lie like a fother mucker.”

  233. You could also add Carp, what about being up 3-1 in the Washington series Tortorella’s first year and not stealing any of the next three?

    I have a great discussion topic for tomorrow regarding this subject.

  234. How about being down 3-0 at home to Pitt tying it up, the joint is rockin,and Ryan hollweg boards somebody and Malkin puts it in the net 20 sec later…… How bout that?

  235. This post contains about 420 reasons why I don’t bother chiming in some days. Predicted this banter after Talbots shut out in Nashville.

    Sorry but I think some of you guys are way too consumed with statistics and fantasy trades instead of just stepping away from The cap geek website and realizing how much less talent this team would have if they traded Lundqvist. He doesn’t come up big In the post season?? Name 2 other Rangers who show up like he has in important playoff games over the last 4 years…Unless negotiations get ugly he’s not going anywhere. Just move on to another debate. There’s plenty of issues to keep convo going : D

  236. Slatsko Folkyerself on

    I can hardly wait until Hank is traded. Hopefully at the trade deadline. Slats will get little value in return, still max out the Cap, continue to lose 1-0 games because they can’t score, limp into eighth place and go out in one round, probably due to lack of scoring. Dolan will give him another vote of confidence and a bonus with a contract extension.

    SSDD – Same Slats, Dolan’s Darling.

  237. Hank letting a bad one in during the playoffs n he has kills us, because we don’t get the lucky one or a PPG or a JohnDruce from any no name on our club. Just the way it is. He almost knows he has to be flawless with exasperates the whole thing. What a circle.

  238. Slatsko Folkyerself on

    Hank, MDZ, MZA, and Pyatt, #1, #2 for Sharp, Seabrook, Keith, and Tays

    Not enough cap room E3. Slats still has to keep Richards…

  239. I was using that as an example to my point that it is not save percentage or quality shots faced in playoff hockey, Carp. it is the timing of the big save. it was easier to think of a negative one than a positive one.

  240. Slatsko Folkyerself on

    U. Otto is the one married to Juwanna. He’s the guy that used to be a pilot for a well known bakery…

  241. James G is right on one point. Nobody has elevated their game in yrs. Besides ’94 in all my years ill name a few that we’re better in the playoffs….. JD, Don Maloney, Murdock, Bernie Nicholls threw some checks believe it or not. Maybe some guy on the team that got beat by Roy as a rookie, but a real short list for all the yrs I’ve been watching.

  242. I could also think of a big one from Richter. game 5 finals against Vancouver. Rangers score 3 in the 3rd to tie the game, and Richter lets one in a minute later. goalies need to close the door in those spots.

  243. Olga Folkyerself on

    Won’t happen Eddie. Richards is an untouchable for Slats. The only one on the Rangers, I think…

  244. Pierre Larouche was great in the 86 playoffs. as was Bob Brooke. Cam Connor in 83? Bobby Sheehan in 79. George McPhee, and Mike Backman used to get called up for the playoffs by Herb Brooks, and always did well. they would play with Dugay.

  245. Olga Folkyerself on

    “The” Kreider is an insult to all the other famous “The”‘s out there.

    You wouldn’t even get The Tays, let alone The Sharp, The Kieth and The Bickel.

  246. eddie eddie eddie on

    greatest period in ranger playoff history: 3rd period, Game 3, vs Islanders, 1975 Best of three…down 3-0 going into the third…Fairbairn scored two and Vickers one to tie it…they swarmed like bees in a hive and should have won in it in regulation…but alas

  247. Olga Folkyerself on

    tays and Sharp are way over rated…

    Stanley Cup Champions. I don’t want them any better than that…

  248. eddie eddie eddie on

    final offer…take it or leave it:

    Hank, MDZ, MZA, Pyatt, Dom Moore, Poo-yo for Sharp, Tays, Seabrook, Keith, and Bickel

  249. eddie eddie eddie on

    Olga – how about a three-way trade:

    rangers send to Boston: MDZ, MZA, Pyatt, The Poo-yo

    Bruins send to Hawks: Krug

    Hawks send to Rangers: Sharp, Tays, Seabrook, and Bickel

  250. eddie eddie eddie on

    Manny – an incredible Chardonnay – uber inexpensive: Barefoot, 2012

    San Joaquin Gold Medal Winner

  251. eddie eddie eddie on

    A three way for the ages: Duguay, Slats, and Dancing Larry. Now, if I had the misfortune of opening a door and seeing that, I’d say “Duguay is pretty” then gash my eyes out with a fork.

  252. “You could also add Carp, what about being up 3-1 in the Washington series Tortorella’s first year and not stealing any of the next three?”

    I think he stole the first three. He certainly stole Game 4, which I was at.

  253. eddie eddie eddie on

    slatsko – who is going to remove Muckler off the wall he’s been hanging from, stuffed, since 1990?

  254. The “big save” concept is one of my least favorite non-stat stats. Say NYR tie a playoff game midway through the third period. Immediately after the face-off he opponent gets a routine shot from the point Hank easily kicks into the corner. NYR go down the ice, lose the puck, other team gets a breakaway and scores. Everyone will get on Hank for not making a “big save.” Yet no one will call the previous save a “big save.” Either one would have resulted in a goal. Likewise if Henrik stops the breakaway and NYR go down the ice and score, everyone will say “big save” when the other save was just as important. “Big save” has too much to do with the quality of a chance for me. Not a fan.

  255. eddie eddie eddie on

    I just got a narley splinter in my finger putting some wood in our woodstove….Bufuglien hurts

  256. Slatsko Folkyerself on

    I’m just enjoying all the Lundqvist trade chatter today. It’s like complaining that your windshield wipers are streaky when your car’s engine is full of cement and you have square wheels.

  257. Olga Folkyerself on

    The reason that Chicago can win a Cup without a Vezina goaltender is that they are all down at the other end, scoring goals.

  258. eddie eddie eddie on

    rangers would be foolish to fire sather. Who else is out there, besides anybody, that could possibly do better? I dare the ship would be rudderless without its mighty Captain at the helm. GMs like Sather don’t grow on trees

  259. Thank you for condensing my thought into a single sentence, Olga.

    Say hi to Yvonne “U2″ and Frank Lee for me.

  260. JR: more on The Art of War: “if you think you suck, think again and think that you only suck a little and then think that it is a good game to play for the tie.”

  261. Stranger Nation on

    _There were also new units on the power play, with Richards coming off the point and now playing down low. Both Richards and Vigneault said it’s just to give the power play, which is 3 for 26 in this 3-4-0 stretch, a different look to maybe spark some more production._

    finally the canon is moved off the pt. Dont get the reverence for Richie. Is the A for asst coach?

  262. Stranger Nation on

    Slatsko – hope the gang’s arrival is not delayed by the weather.

    Heatd Y.U. may be delayed and Juan U. as well.

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