Trade everybody!

349

Hey, I was busy at “the other job” yesterday but I spent a bunch of time here reading the comments, and especially enjoyed some of those about trading pretty much everybody because of a 2-5 start.

Never mind that a lot of the excuses are fairly legit: The nonsensical preseason trip that wrecked training camp for a new coach with a new system, a nine-game road trip that included games against three California powerhouses in four nights followed by another against a Western favorite in St. Lous; not to mention the ridiculous injuries that have just taken the heart out of what was already a thin top-six forwards. Those are legit, kids.

Then comes the reality: That a lot of the players still standing haven’t played well at all, starting with the goalie(s).

And that’s where we’re going to start, with the “Trade Henrik Lundqvist for a big-time forward, or for prospects” idea.

I’m not saying you’re completely off-base in this regard: If you could get a John Tavares, or a Sidney Crosby or a Steven Stamkos for Lundqvist, and thought you could find a goalie not as good as Lundqvist but better than average … well, I’d say go for it.

But that’s not happening for a few reasons, none of them this mysterious little injury that he has developed.

First, you’re not getting a player like that for Lundqvist, especially with him being an unrestricted free agent. What team is going to give you a franchise forward, or defenseman, for a rental. Ditto for a top prospect.

Some mentioned a guy like Ryan Nugent-Hopkins. Well, Edmonton needs a goalie. Edmonton, though, isn’t close to contending. Lundqvist isn’t going to re-sign with Edmonton, then, so they’re not giving up a top prospect for him.

A team that acquired Lundqvist would have to be close to contending, really in need of a goalie, and with cap space. That team would then have to be somewhat confident it could re-sign him, otherwise it’s not giving up top return.

Mostly, though, the Rangers won’t trade Lundqvist because that would be throwing in the towel, and this franchise is never going to throw in the towel. This franchise will do what it must to make the playoffs every year. And if you put in the caveat that the Rangers might be out of it by the trade deadline and convinced he isn’t coming back,  so they’d trade him then, well, mathematically that’s not very likely at all … not in the Lesstropolitan Division of the Leastern Conference.

(Remember, all the other Leastern teams also have to go play at Anaheim, Los Angeles, San Jose and St. Louis, too).

I think Lundqvist wants to be here. I think the Rangers are going to figure it out, and whether Rick Nash comes back soon or not, I think they are going to be right there in the playoff battle. They can’t do it without him, obviously. They won’t give up and trade him. And, actually, I expect him to re-sign before the season’s over.

He has been a big part of the problem so far, along with the non-existent offense, the terrible play by most of their top defensemen, the preseason trip, the nine-game road trip, the new coach, the new system and the injuries. They cannot overcome average play by Lundqvist.

But of all the problems they’ve had, the most easily fixable one, I sure think, is Lundqvist.

Photo by the Associated Press.

 

 

 

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349 Comments

  1. Did we discuss Hank to the Pens for Malkin? How about Hank and Girardi to the Nucks for Luongo and whatever?

    If he’s going to sign then he needs to get it done…NOW.

    If not then both sides move on and the Rangers get busy doing something to make this a better team.

  2. Right on, Carp! But my bet is AV not gonna make it…..not going anywhere in the short term…..but this level of play can’t be accepted for much longer.

  3. Good morning, boneheads!

    Lol, Carp! Well said. I think people are just trying to find something to talk about during this brutal schedule when one has to wait for 4-5 days between the games. Also, a lot those comments were clearly tongue in cheek.

    One interesting fact. Hank is clearly the most important player on this team, and the only true elite player. And yet, he doesn’t have a NTC or NMC clause. But I agree, he isn’t going anywhere.

  4. ilb – the upcoming contract will contain all manners of “Hank protection” incl NTC/NMC, $8m a year for 8 years. I reckon it will be done before January.

    If there’s a trade I think it will involve guys like Dorsett, Asham, Stralman, Pyatt. If a trade is made it will be to free up a roster spot for a younger guy like Conor Allan, McIlrath, Lindberg, Kristo etc.. and the guys I would trade won’t get much other than prospects or lower round draft picks

  5. Yay! Day off Friday so i’m up watching and not watching the next morning on delay for once. Please THE Kreider SAVE US! Bring us back from the ledge!

  6. Carp just gave Hank the kiss of death. you know Carp has not been on the hottest of streaks with his Ranger predictions. his last one was that there is no way Kreider doesn’t make the team out of camp. good bye Hank.

  7. I’m not going to give Lundqvist the benefit of the doubt but if this helps, I may add that this is an extremely early session slump. Hank goes through this almost every year. Most of the time it’s in the middle of the season. With that in mind, maybe what he’s going through will end soon and he’ll end up having a stellar season. I can’t quit on a guy who has helped make this team competitive for 8 seasons.

    Same goes for AV. His style and system is new and may take time cracking through guys who have been, for lack of a better term, brain washed, for 4 years with another system. This has been tough to deal with so far, but I think good things are bound to happen with the team that exists right now.

  8. Enough of this inane Hank talk. Let’s get back to business and to the real difference-maker …

    THE Kreider.

  9. Loved the title this morning carp…have to agree with UK that any trades will be done to promote the kids and give them a legit shot.

  10. Man, just some game day eve-eve chatter and Carp goes and costs us Lundqvist. My prediction is Columbus for whatever players they have left with 3 years or more tenure.

    (To make sure my comments yesterday were clear: I’m not trading Lundqvist now. If we’re still here at 40 games, I am. And my pretend 2014-15 Rangers and beyond are better for it.)

    (Carp: Wouldn’t the no-Nash trade lines have made a more fun topic?)

  11. ThisYearsModel on

    Excellent use of twitter Carp. Sitting in the Copenhagen airport and I see TRADE EVERYBODY, and I have to log on and check it out. For me, I am wondering what happened to the Zucc. He looked good early, but is not contributing much and has been banished to Boyle’s line, which is the kiss of death for players who can actually skate.

  12. Start by trading del Zaster. I wouldn’t be opposed to moving girardi at deadline should we be out of it. Maybe he would re sign in off season if not then u look elsewhere. Not saying u want to trade him but for a rental a few picks couldn’t hurt.

    That said 5 behind isles 4 back of Columbus and Washington.

    I believe i saw a stat that said only three teams from November 1st on from 2005-06 to 2011-12 have made playoffs after trailing by 4 pts.

  13. Like a turkey on Flag Day, this team is cooked. Done.

    These jesters will probably make it interesting my winning one or two more games along the way, but will assuredly redefine “bush league” along the way. In what will be a season so bad its only comparable is the fall of the Roman Empire during the last Ice Age.

  14. So. Those of us who were talking about trading Hank were doing so in a world where he is definitely not re-signing here. So it’s a trade him or lose him scenario. Under those conditions you *have* to trade him. Have to. But in reality, it ends up being a package because if Hank won’t re-sign here then we are in total rebuild. Edmonton style.

    Then, we talked about a different scenario of “what superstar would you move him for” which was in another ideal world and wasn’t taking contract status into account.

  15. Hank isn’t hurt he has been negotiating the past few days and should announce resigning before to morrows game.

  16. Manny, there’s still that scary 3rd option between “Hank resigns and everything is great” and “Hank leaves and we’re sad forever”. And its the worst option of the 3.

  17. Stranger Nation on

    Hank resigns in Jan for $8MM/8 yrs., plays the Olympics, wins Gold and falls off podium, breaking his leg never to play goalie again

  18. Stranger Nation on

    Scariest option is Hank resigns, we still suck, but now we have a $8MM cap hit for a goalie, limited flexibility to make a move, and AV still coach talking about adjustment to ‘system’.

    The system is called “hockey” and we do not have the skill to win at it…

  19. I was thinking worst case is “Hank gets $8MM per over 8 years and plays outside of the 1st tier of goalies”. That would be pretty devastating.

  20. You mean the one where Hank re-signs for $10M/8 Years, Nash is injured forever but we don’t LTIR him, we don’t buy out Richards, we re-sign Callahan for $7M/8 Years and Extend Sather. Buy AV a barrel of lozenges and tell him he ain’t going anywhere?

    That one?

  21. Pimpster – one day closer to THE KREIDER. I’m happy for ya buddy:)

    But it you think Christopher is the answer to all the Rangers problems, would be like thinking all your hookers are virgins….. just saying.

  22. I would think that Hank was negotiating but he hasn’t had the best season to negotiate off of. The scores don’t look very good under the “new system” and Hank is sliding all over the place. Guess that’s what the “new skates” are for….

  23. There’s that Manny, and the puck doesn’t have as many snow angels as last year – to get to him.
    The Blockness Monster really hasn’t shown up in our defense this year.
    When Cally’s out, the blocks are cut in half.

    New skates, New pads, New HOME ice. The King will be back in court!!!

  24. I did watch the Jackets game the other night and thought how a guy like Dubi would be good on this team right now. Then I remembered how his cap hit was $4m and thought nah!

  25. Rob in Beantown on

    I don’t think the Rangers can or should give Hank more than $8 million per. Even that I think is excessive to be spending at the goalie position, even for the best goalie in the world. However, I think there are two key numbers that his agent can use in negotiations. One, Tuuka signed a contract worth $7 million per for 8 years, and Hank will argue he is worth more than Tuuka. Two, Nash’s cap hit is $7.8 million, and Hank will argue he is more valuable to the team than Nash. That puts us at $8 million. I don’t think you can realistically go higher, but Hank won’t want to go lower.

  26. Rob in Beantown on

    Yeah right, Sioux. As a proud Cubs fan and hater of the Red Sox, I am just going to pretend this World Series isn’t happening.

  27. Rob in Beantown on

    Would you guys do Hank for Tuuka straight up? Disregarding all of my sentimentalism for a moment, I probably would. Tuuka is younger and I think signed to a pretty reasonable deal

  28. I did not know about the Cubs :(

    I love Fenway Park, Big Papi, the Monster, “small ball” baseball.

  29. Agreed, Rob. This might be the one time you dig in against a star and hope his love of playing for you wins out. If it doesn’t work, we all have a good cry.

  30. I love Fenway because when I’m in $85 seats, I think they should be facing 2B, not b/w the mound and home plate.

  31. In a “no Hank” scenario, I’d rather not do Tuukka or any other well paid goalie. I’d try to find the next and invest in the skaters.

  32. Hank isn’t leaving New York.

    How much do you think he makes in endorsements, in New York?

  33. Sioux, everyone said Prust wouldn’t leave NY. He loves Bole. He loves Tort. He became the player he is here, etc.

  34. Rob in Beantown on

    I love Fenway because in $85 seats I’d rather look at a support beam than see the pitcher and half the infield.

  35. There’s a difference between loving NY and being invested in NY. And Prust has a gorgeous Canadian girlfriend who probably likes doing Canadian things in Canada. Hank has endorsements and restaurants in NYC.

  36. Sioux – exactly!
    Hank will not get the same access to outside Hockey earnings and the limelight as he gets in NYC. Going nowhere. 8yrs, $8m per (same logic as Rob previously – better than Rask, more valuable than Nash)

  37. Yeah, Nash’s deal is pre-CBA. I think that makes it a non-comp and I’ll call Hank’s agent and let him know too so we’re all on the same page and do what’s best for the Rangers.

  38. “The system is called “hockey” and we do not have the skill to win at it…”

    LOVE IT! Said like a Miami Pimp!

  39. Stranger Nation on

    Pimp – at least we get the Golden Child back!

    time to bring up The Count of Monte Kristo and the Wrath il Mac

  40. RELEASE THE KREIDER!!

    But, maybe, just maybe, this little Hank injury is AV’s way of telling Hank to take a couple days off and get his #$% together.

    That or he finally headered himself into a Nash.

  41. “First, you’re not getting a player like that for Lundqvist, especially with him being an unrestricted free agent. What team is going to give you a franchise forward, or defenseman, for a rental. Ditto for a top prospect.”

    General managers would be willing to part with a top prospect for Lundqvist (a rental).

    Happens all the time, top prospect for rental.

  42. Some of this chatter about HL and AV, their inability to play or coach has been irrational at best. Should we dump every player or coach that slumps? The next guy you get will eventually fall prey to a slump as well. The chatter here really should be of support. I can guarantee those here trashing HL or AV will back track when and if the team turns itself around. Wait until the season is over or at best until it hits the 41 game mark to fully evaluate the team.

    Look at the Devils and their last 10 years or so. They start off really slow and come January, kick it into gear. They make the playoffs almost every year based on second half of the season pushes.

    I also see some posting about their support of Dubinsky. Does anyone remember his season after his contract battle? Was that season worth his contract battle? He was clouded by money and his play was sub par compared to his previous years. He’s prospering in a smaller market and that’s where he belongs. With the exception of Nash’s injury, that deal was exceptional.

    I say to the hot heads, cool off.

  43. I say to you, stop being binary. No one is saying Hank sucks or trade Hank now for nothing, we’re merely contingency planning for the deadline if things don’t change. This is what happens when you give a team’s fanbase 4 days off a few weeks into the season.

  44. On those facebook pictures, Dorsett looks maybe 2″ taller than MZA. So 4″ taller than the average kid in the pics.

  45. Bring up this guy. Send down that guy. Trade everybody! All of this is rearranging the deck chairs in the Titanic as long as Captain Sather is driving the ship.

  46. I can only speak for self but I said that I miss Dubinsky. The reason is not his contract and all the baggage. I miss having players that played their heart out and stood up for their teammates. We don’t stand up for each other anymore. No chemistry.

  47. I’m not a hot head. I look at the rangers when sather brought in Torts. Torts convinced sather to stop trying to build the team through free agency. The rangers than started to rebuild again under Sather. The rangers were 2 games short of making it to the cup, than came the strike the next year and than Sather decides to fire torts and bring in a totally new coach from a different team with a completely different system. That to me spells another rebuild because since the system is completely different sather will need to bring in players that can thrive in that system. I’m fed up past the point of no return with how many more tries is sather going to get to build a stanely cup championship team. Enough already dolan!!! Get your head out of your fat pumpkin and fire this jerk already, enough is enough. The Lundqvist situation is the rangers are screwed, they either sign him to a contract that fans aren’t going to like or lose him to free agency, the rangers are screwed either way.

  48. The schedule has been terrible. These extreme breaks between games is almost as bad as the road trip.

  49. “I miss having players that played their heart out and stood up for their teammates. We don’t stand up for each other anymore. No chemistry”

    A+

    Nick Rash gets points for standing up for Step-Off, but he sure as fugg doesn’t play his heart out game in game out.

  50. I loved Dubinsky because he loved the Rangers beyond “I’d love any team I played for”. Those guys (David Wells on the Yankees) will always have a special place with me (until they don’t disclose how much their back is bothering them and submarine a world series game that you’re watching at Mikimotos in Wilmington, DE).

  51. _The schedule has been terrible. These extreme breaks between games is almost as bad as the road trip._

    Playing 4 in 6 on the west coast then playing 1 in 5 on the east coast with like 100 miles of travel is the most ridiculous of ridiculousnesses.

  52. Dubi was my favorite ranger player. When posters on here would call him Dublowsky it really got me mad but I ignored it. The kid has the heart and soul you need on your team. It appears a lot of fans on here judge a player by scoring goals, if you don’t score, you stink, ala boyle. It’s hilarious that sather brings in the misfits from Columbus and now the rangers remind me of the Jackets of years past and visa versa the Jackets remind me of the rangers in the past.

  53. Rob in Beantown on

    The whole NHL schedule is stupid. There are 2 games tonight and 10 games tomorrow night.

  54. I love the loong breaks between games. We’d probably have a scarier record if they were playing more. I can at least enjoy some of the days between games. Once they’re consistently playing, forget aboot it! Non stop agita

  55. Stranger Nation on

    Dubi Good: stood up for team, forechecked, nice turtlenecks, Crosby like lips, versatile (PK/PP), played body, USA

    Dubi Bad: knee hockey, couldn’t score, making $4M, partying with El Zotto, left as 3rd liner in Tortles system

  56. Sometimes I wonder why I even root for these no-talents …

    They are worse at their craft than a Brazilian is at speaking in a soft voice.

  57. Also of interest:

    @AGrossRecord 11s #NYR lines so far: Kreider-Stepan-Richards, Pouliot-Brassard-Miller, Pyatt-Boyle-Fast, Mashinter-D. Moore-Dorsett

  58. Darren Dreger ?@DarrenDreger 1m
    Hearing #rangers have dealt Lundqvist to #wild for Cooke, Rupp and a 4th

  59. Rob in Beantown on

    Andrew Gross @AGrossRecord
    Carl Hagelin, eligible to return to the lineup on Oct. 29, is also skating as an extra forward.

  60. Rob in Beantown on

    That’s just part of the weirdness. The extreme bipolarism that comes with either winning or losing

  61. Maybe we should start giving out points for negative comments post win and positive comments post loss? Not individual specific, because I’m not rewarding Boyle haters post win, but entire franchise related.

  62. Funny….

    Dave Shapiro ?@BlueSeatBlogs 4m So AV is going with the Oprah approach to lines: YOU GET A NEW LINEMATE! AND YOU GET A NEW LINEMATE! AND YOU GET A NEW LINEMATE!

  63. Spoke too soon….

    @AGrossRecord 18m Mats Zuccarello now skating on Brian Boyle’s line with Jesper Fast during drills. Pyatt was there earlier in practice.

  64. AV has already lost the room
    Can’t have a French Canadian coach leading a New Yawk hockey team. Hire Biran Mullen – he knows how we do things around here

  65. Guess who is 3rd in goals scored this year – Vancouver. So much for Torts’ system holding teams back offensively. This organization will be average until Sather is gone. He hasn’t drafted a stud forward during his entire tenure as GM.

  66. Carp, just had a chance to read your summary on possible trades etc.

    And respectfully disagree with any of your rationale for not blowing up this roster which you claim will be “right there” at playoff time.

    Right there is where they always seem to be but there is never any long term there, there! Where is the organizational growth since 2000, where are the vaunted prospects drafted by the organization and where are all the ingredients to seriously contend year in year out that are the hallmark of the best run organizations in the NHL?

    This particular article sounds like an MSG press release!

    At the end of every season fans ask the same repeat the same comment.

    There is no there there!

  67. Carp,

    Which defenseman is the most disappointing so far – Girardi or McDonaugh? It seems like both are nowhere near where they were last year.

  68. Comn, what is your problem with me? MSG press release?

    I’m just saying, this organization isn’t going to blow it up and start over, and it isn’t going to start selling if it has a mathematical chance to make the playoffs. And in this awful division, it will have a mathematical chance at the very least at the trade deadline. It won’t be totally out of it.

  69. _I think the only choices tomorrow are a 2-0 win, or a 5-0 loss._

    Flyers don’t have two games yet this year you can combine to get them to five goals.

    (So, yeah, we’ll lose 5-0.)

  70. Carp,

    This is just conjecture, but if this season goes badly, would you invest $9 million of cap space on a goalie when you can’t score and goals? Elite goaltenders have not won the Cup in a while.

  71. Would I? I don’t know. Would they? Yes. I think, to some degree, you say this is our best and most important player and you pay him. It’s not like they’re going to be able to spend that money elsewhere and get a 40-goal scorer (oh, wait, they already had one of those).

  72. I consider him to be really good (I guess maybe elite), but I think Cups are won in the offensive zone. Chicago won with 2 guys that aren’t elite. Tim Thomas wasn’t even in the league a few years before Boston won it. You can’t build around the goalie when you are inept in the draft. There is only so much you can buy with a salary cap.

  73. Post lockout cup winning goalies …

    2006: Ward (CAR) $700K
    2007: Giguere (ANA) $6MM
    2008: Osgood (DET) $1.4MM
    2009: MAF(PIT) $5MM
    2010: Niemi (CHI) $825K
    2011: Thomas (BOS) $5MM
    2012: Quick (LAK) $1.8MM
    2013: Crawford (CHI) $2.7MM

  74. Stranger Nation on

    Goalies seem more like Relief Pictures than Quarterbacks (to completely mix metaphors)
    The performance variance seems to be less unless you have a Mariano. Is Hank a Mariano, once in a blue moon talent? Heck, he isn’t even Richter, unless you are talking puck handling skills…

  75. On the other hand, if you could draft even somewhat ineptly and add some legit forwards to the lineup, and you already have the elite goalie, you’d be in good shape. Big IF though.

  76. On the winning goalies list? I’d say Quick is elite, Thomas was playing at that level. The rest don’t qualify. Maybe Ward for a couple years?

  77. Right now? King, Rinne, Rask approaching. Price could get there? Holtby is not and he looks stupid.

    Over the timespan of those titles, a lot of others have been elite and not won. Miller jumps to mind first and foremost.

  78. @AGrossRecord 11s #NYR lines so far: Kreider-Stepan-Richards, Pouliot-Brassard-Miller, Pyatt-Boyle-Fast, Mashinter-D. Moore-Dorsett

    No Zucc is a start.

    Put the MonteKRISTO in for FAST, and we have 3 lines that can score…… just saying.

  79. I know this came up before the season, but the one sentence summary is “its easier to find a non-top prospect $2MM goalie who can be a top 10 player than it is to do the same at forward”. Pay relative to play is way off with a lot of goalies getting paid retroactive to good or successful seasons.

  80. Vezina Winners:

    2005–06 Miikka Kiprusoff
    2006–07 Martin Brodeur
    2007–08 Martin Brodeur
    2008–09 Tim Thomas
    2009–10 Ryan Miller
    2010–11 Tim Thomas
    2011–12 Henrik Lundqvist
    2012–13 Sergei Bobrovsky

  81. Other than Quick, none of them are elite in my opinion. The rest got hot at the right time (which you obviously need). Fleury got pulled in last year’s playoffs.

  82. Rob in Beantown on

    It’s bothersome that Hank is about a year removed in age from some of those “formerly elite” goaltenders like Luongo and Miller

  83. And as a UFA post Olympics Miller would have gotten like a billion per year for life. Now how would that look?

  84. Serious question: What stats can we look at to figure out which goalies are ELI(te) and which are just the result of a very conservative, defensive system? I really have no idea how to determine that stuff. All I know is that Hank rarely looks out of position, he’s terrific in Skills Contests and he’s very good at moving laterally.

  85. Manny – “The Boys of Winter,” – each player and how their lives were shaped before and after famous 4-3 game ate Lake Placid. And, maybe, “The Game,” Ken Dryden.

  86. Rob in Beantown on

    I guess Broduer and Thomas are the counterpoints, winning some Vezinas in their late 30s

  87. I don’t think there are even enough “good” goalies to go around. Maybe not even enough above average goaltenders.

    All you really want from your goaltender is consistency. That way you can build a system that balances your goaltending.

  88. _So, basically, we’re agreeing that there are not a lot of elite goalies._

    Yup. And that owning one doesn’t correlate to winning the Cup. And, post-Brodeur, goalies aren’t staying elite long term or past their early 30s?

  89. Agreed, Manny, but I don’t think there’s predictability in terms of goalies either. Last year’s finalists were Henrik and two guys already dumped once in the league.

  90. Brian Boucher has been to more finals than Hank. Why – obviously not because he is better, but the team was much better. This team as it is currently constructed can’t afford $8-$9 million on a goalie and I hate to say it because I think Hank is great. Nash could be dead weight with his concussion problems. They might not buy-out Richards. Girardi and Callahan are free agents which I would assume would include a raise. Sather is really bad.

  91. On the other hand, if you’re (pathetically) thin on front-line skill, you’d better have an elite player somewhere else.

  92. Sure, Manny, but I think a lot of us thought the Flyers got a steal in that trade. Obviously not in hindsight, but at the time it seemed like Columbus paid too high for mediocrity.

  93. Think there’s a decent chance Mr. Talbot will get up-close introductions to Mr. Rinaldo and Mr. Simmonds, among others, tomorrow?

  94. Carp, agree. But if you’re going to start from scratch, the goal is front line skill, not finding that elite goalie.

  95. This team had every chance to start from scratch from 1997 on … and never has. And has never found and developed a first-line forward.

  96. Rinaldo will have a game misconduct in the first 5:00 after he runs McDonagh and clears up any debate over whether we’re missing our top 3 in this game or just 3 of our top 4.

  97. If you want to start from scratch, you either have to rebuild via painful trades or you have to suck enough to pick high. We’ve never done either, just patched with vets.

  98. I would trade Hank to Philly for Wayne Simmonds. Anyone? Simmonds is signed through the next lockout at an AAV of like $3.975M

  99. exactly … from 1997 through the mid-2000s muddled along, plugging holes with expensive, middle-of-the-road players instead of just sucking and getting a higher pick. Still, you’d think that from 2000-2013 you might draft a first-line player somewhere along the line. I mean, not every first-line player in the league was a top-10 draft pick.

  100. Plus, once upon a time, this GM traded Adam Graves, Brian Leetch, Alexei Kovalev, and others and got virtually nothing in return.

  101. You guys are right. A Hockey team is all about balance. But if you’re starting from scratch you need elite talent up front with rough playable skill on the bottom of the front. Goalie is never something you build a team around.

    I mean….COREY CRAWFORD won the cup. He sucks.

    Hank is GREAT though. Really, really great. Super elite. Maybe the best goaltender in the world. But even the best is giving up a lot of goals when no one plays defense at all. I thought Hank looked great even when he gave up 4 goals. He was keeping the game reasonable.

  102. Too many teams, too diluted a talent base. NHL has been brilliant at deluding millions of fans all over the States to root for mediocrity. I admit that I’m one of them, so I fell for it, too, and continue to.

  103. Very often, the “hot” goalie carries a team deep into the playoffs rather than the “best” one.

  104. For Example, Josh Harding has played 8 games (4-2-1), and thank to Ryan Suter, has only seen 150 Shots. He saved 143. So his Save Percentage is .953.

    On the other hand, Carey Price, who has also started in 8 games (4-4), has seen 264 shots (114 more!) and saved 246 for a save percentage of .901.

    How can we compare these dudes?

  105. Manny, I think ESPN decided it was Henrik a few weeks ago. And ESPN is the worldwide leader in sports so I think that’s definitive.

  106. @Herman_NYRBlog 1m Last goaltender besides Lundqvist & Biron to start for #NYR was Alex Auld on March 6th, 2011. That was 237 regular season games ago. Wow.

  107. How about a finisher on Brassard’s line? The guy (looks to me to be easily) our best passer and he’s playing with no one capable of scoring from 15 feet out.

  108. The rangers are doomed. The dark ages are coming back. Sather will still be the GM which is a criminal offense. Lundqvist, Girardi and Callahan will get there raises which will hamper the rangers from spending money through free agency and the beat goes on.

  109. Manny,

    I agree but the only exception is a Pronger/Chara type. I would take a chance on a less expensive forward and give a guy like that $7 million. They have carried teams to finals (Edmonton, Ottowa, etc.) Chara even got Redden a ridiculous contract (from guess who)?

  110. Any team with Richards on the first line is condemned to have their two most talented forwards fighting two opponents for pucks behind the net and along the boards in the hope that the puck will slide out and miraculously find Richie’s float position.

  111. Manny: “There is no goalie alive on the planet that I would take over Hank. Never.”

    How quickly things change.

  112. It’s true. I wouldn’t want any other goaltender. But if we are in full rebuild and are going to have to pay this guy $9M+ to keep him around then…what can we do?

    In a vacuum I would never, ever select another goaltender.

  113. iWicky "Frag Out!!!" on

    I would be shocked if OPG is back! Especially with some of the potential ufa d men.

  114. - Our team sucks! What can we do to make it better?

    – Let’s trade our best player who singlehandedly carried this franchise for years?

    – YAY!!!

  115. Stranger Nation on

    Richards/Step/Miller
    The Kreider/Brass/Dorsett
    Gomer/Bole/Fast (or Kristo)
    Pullout/Moore/Haley

  116. Stranger Nation on

    Norris Stralman is our best Dman acc’ding to AV

    In a related story, cherry lifesavers seem to last the longest

  117. You guys are right. If we are going to play a style, like Tort had us playing, which I think is the *right* style, then we need a terrific goaltender to help us keep the defensive end of the ice clear of goal celebrations.

    If we are playing a more uptempo style that involves scoring 3+ goals per game, then we need front line scoring.

    Right now this Organization has no direction. None.

  118. Stranger Nation on

    Last night was a great night for Rangers hockey.

    Torts was coaching

    Dubi, Gabby and Artie were playing

    Rangers didn’t lose

  119. I don’t think you can Manny!

    A goaltender in a Tort’s type system is going to look “all world”. Everyone playing defense, DMen blocking all shots. Playing closer to the goal, blocking lanes, and working from the goal tender out.

    Kings, Blues, Phoenix, Minnesota all play a similar type of system. MN has opened up some with Parise & Suter, but they are a defense first low scoring team.
    Vancouver will be added to this list before the end of the year. I’m thinking Luongo numbers are going to get better, just working in a Tort’s system alone.

    I also think, Hank’s numbers are going to drop, to a degree because of the system. Now not as bad as this road trip, but he can still shutout any team in the NHL on any given night.

    Hank and Bob’s numbers are not there, 7 games into the new year, but they are going to get better, but you can’t discount them winning the vezina the last two years.

  120. Hitchcock and Torts type teams are tough to play against. They may not score a lot, but they are very hard to score against.

    It takes balance to win the whole thing.

    Right now the Rangers don’t have balance, nor do they have enough skill to win a 7 game series against a top team.

    Not today, but maybe when we are healthy and firing on all cylinders.

  121. I’m guessing that if AV said Stralman’s been their best defenseman, he meant it as a shot at the top three, who have been mostly awful.

  122. _- Our team sucks! What can we do to make it better?

    – Let’s trade our best player who singlehandedly carried this franchise for years?
    – YAY!!!_

    What if you say that exact same thing, but as a Columbus fan from two offseasons ago?

  123. Mrs. Manny, who is around here from time to time and can speak for herself, was saying that if they had gone with Messier, which I thought was a horrible choice, the players would be playing their heart out at the very least.

    She probably has a point.

  124. with regard to the “trading everybody” which is among the more inept excuses for inaction, while I wouldn’t move anyone in this lineup (with the exception of Dorsett who belongs in the AHL) I do feel that if Vigneault had not just been hired to replace who he replaced, he’d have been fired already.

  125. After watching the game last night, I really miss Dubinsky. With Cally our he’d be our best player. Will our coach realize that neither JT Miller or Kreider are 4th line players? If they are not on one of the top 2 lines their talents are being wasted.

  126. Messier would have had Leetch on the bench next to him.

    I’m thinking we would have given them more “slack” as new coaches. Right?

  127. Hey Boneheads look at the bright at least Sather didn’t bring back Ryane Clowe. Even Lou L can make a blunder once in awhile. 5 years 24 mil. OUCH!

  128. The last time Sather tried to “rebuild”, they got Balej, Kondratiev, Immonen, Helminen, Valliquette, McLennan, Betts, McAllister, Kozak, Rachunek, and Grenier.

    Yup.

  129. 2 most consistent playoff/stanely cup teams are? yep devils and red wings!!! Why? because they play the same system through there minor league teams to there pro team and when they do make a coaching change it’s usually from within. They don’t keep changing systems. sather is a joke. Sather runs the rangers like a roulette table.

  130. And if our GM signs Hank for a long and high priced contract, he’s insane. Therefore I expect him to do just that. That is why his tenure as GM gets him an F. It is really nice to be Dolan’s a**h**e buddy. Job security is nice eh?

  131. And they gave up Kovalev, Leetch, Nedved, Markkinen, Simon, Barnaby, de Vries, and Rucinsky. Not table scraps.

  132. In 2003, the Rangers had a payroll over 70 million. Ten years later, with the dollar worth 25% less, it’s approx. 65 mil. Keep buying those Dolan roast beef sandwiches.

  133. Tippet would have been my #1 coach.

    Just look what he’s put together in Phoenix. That team is solid. They win faceoffs, play stiff defence, and have a Smith as a goalie. AND they are 6-2-2 in the west. That says something.

    And they play similar to Torts. So it would feel like a total rebuild.

  134. And they bombed the draft next year. They got Korpikoski with their second 1st rounder (but then gave him away) and Dubinsky with their fourth 2nd rounder. Six picks in the first two rounds, and they were able to draft two 3rd line players.

  135. Lloyd, it’s Humpday. I’m allowed to hang around until 5PM doing nothing and making no points whatsoever. :)

  136. Gravy hit it right on the head. I am amazed that this guy kept his job through even the Bobby Holik years. Where would we be if that idiot in Montreal didn’t give us McDonaugh for Gomez???

  137. Leetchhalloffame on

    This mess is ALL Sather’s doing. Hope our great scouts are preparing for a top 5 draft at the end of this non-playoff year.

  138. speaking of draft busts, McIlrath’s 3 points in 6 games would lead all Ranger defensemen – bring him up

  139. Lloyd: Dorsett!? That’s the only guy you would move? He _does_ belong in the NHL by the way.

  140. Stranger Nation on

    tommyg
    2 most consistent playoff/stanely cup teams are? yep devils and red wings!!! Why? because they play the same system through there minor league teams to there pro team and when they do make a coaching change it’s usually from within.
    =============================
    truer words…

    where’s Olga?

  141. can’t dismantle a team after 7 games, Manny. would think you know better than that.

    we can play semantics games with regard to Dorsett if you’d like but the fact of the matter is he sucks; feel free to attach whatever 3-letter acronym to him that you’d like.

  142. Dorsett didn’t wear the “A” in Columbus simply because Nathaniel Hawthorne gave him the Scarlet Letter. His value is too often overlooked.

  143. I agree, Lloyd. But, yesterday, tomg convinced me that we have already been dismantled and are already in the middle of a rebuild. Thus, Hank leaves for Chicago or Detroit and we get nothing in return. I’m in PANIC mode.

  144. Stranger Nation on

    my avitar is no avitar – obviously someone is using my non-avitar without permission

  145. Well, you’re “Stranger” so that’s fine for you. I think you’re the only person allowed to not have one. Also eric because he’s always posting in mid panic.

  146. _check in a month from now when Dubinsky scores his next goal_

    This sort of comment works sooo much better when he wouldn’t be sitting T-2 on our team in points.

  147. If you’re going to use this Rangers team on October 23rd as the benchmark, you’re going to have a league fairly littered with dynasties.

  148. “I like star players and every player should be a star and if you aren’t a star player I don’t like you and you shouldn’t be a player!”

  149. “If you don’t score goals you’re a useless hockey player. Hockey is 100% about SCORING goals!”

  150. “If you can’t play hockey, you’re a useless hockey player. Hockey is 100% about playing hockey!!”

    – not said by anyone who professes to admire the “game” of Derek Dorsett

  151. Good point, ORR. Mrs. Manny was also saying that last night that Messier would never say he was “nervous” before the first game.

  152. Dorsett is a poor man’s Brandon Prust. But he’s definitely a viable NHL player with good skating ability and some grit, jam and other words.

  153. teams that look like the 2013-14 Rangers don’t win championships because of guys like Derek Dorsett. they’re depth guys for already talented rosters. on a relatively low talent roster, he’s an albatross.

  154. I feel like if I get you to say something that makes you happy, you’ll feel happy and then we can all be happy together.

  155. This blog should have a store where we can buy absurd merchandise with some of our absurd stuff on it.

  156. I’d make a t-shirt that says “Would Lloyd like this?” and below it there would be the grade school checkboxes for [ ] YES and [ ] NO except there wouldn’t be a [ ] YES option. Because he doesn’t like anything.

  157. “teams that look like the 2013-14 Rangers don’t win championships because of guys like Derek Dorsett. they’re depth guys for already talented rosters. on a relatively low talent roster, he’s an albatross.”

    Precisely.

  158. I was hoping to get a mug with that awesome quote that LW sometimes posts “the difference between you and me carp….” That’s great. Also some International VinceA day stuff wouldn’t hurt.

  159. Right, get rid of Dorsett. When Hags gets back, he can handle the league’s lunatics who constantly bang our best players with no consequences. Problem is we don’t have ENOUGH Dorsetts.

  160. Also, albatross is a preposterously strong word for a guy who eats like 2.5% of your cap banging around on the 4th line.

  161. Lol. I picture a Cracker Barrel style restaurant with a windmill on top. “Come on down to Rod’s Rumor Mill where we have THE BEST Cheddar pancakes in the country!”

  162. it’s funny how people like you (and you’re not the only one here who’s guilty of this) use knocking one crummy player as (a) a means of avoiding having to form a credible argument and (b) a trigger to hide behind blanket nonsensical statements like, “you don’t like anything!” in order to conceal the lack of a credible argument.

    I mean, somehow you manage to make the accusation of me not liking anything even more childish. Bravo.

  163. Cooscoos:

    yeah stack a team that can’t score and is trying to play a more offensive system with more guys cut from the Derek Dorsett mold. that’s a surefire way to grab the number 1 pick in 2014.

  164. Sather will make some moves. Soon. Most likely guys who are on their last contract year and want raises. List starts with Del Zotto.

  165. Lloyd, there’s no engaging a guy whose position is “sucks!” all the time. That’s not a debate starter, it’s just repetitious complaining. If you’d really like to debate Dorsett’s value, let me know a player you’d prefer in his minutes and we can discuss why I agree or prefer Dorsett.

  166. An albatross means an obstacle to success.

    When the team is comprised of skill-less players like Dorsett, he is an albatross.

    There are no salary cap implications required to deem Dorsett an albatross on this roster.

  167. Mister D, if you’re not actually going to bother reading my posts, there’s not much point in having a discussion, is there?

  168. “You go there, and you go there, and then you go to the slot and someone will pass it to you, and then you shoot and then…”

  169. Gravy,

    While you’re busy researching things, ask Carp to check how many other accounts I have on here.

  170. Anyone here who likes to use the epithet ‘albatross’ ever read Coleridge’s ‘The Rime of the Ancient Mariner’ and understand what ‘albatross’ means and represents?

  171. Lloyd, let’s just say that tc03 posts with the same style as you. I’ve never really taken you for the kind of poster with that kind of time on your hands.

  172. you just said you were fairly convinced that I’m the same person as “TC03″ and nothing has changed your mind yet. that doesn’t imply a similar posting style which is why I suggest you contact Carp to have him confirm your findings.

  173. Rob in Beantown on

    I think tc03 is the poster whose former name rhymes with “slothman.” And also another who had a fondness for pointing out Hank’s lack of finger jewelry.

  174. ‘Time on your hands’ represents unfettered and successful capitalism. No shame in that.

  175. I read all of your posts, Lloyd. If you identified a player you think would be the right kind of fit for our current 4th, please direct me to it.

  176. not that’s it worth stating but I said a little while ago that Dorsett is the one guy on this roster that I’d move immediately (although Pyatt is a very close 2nd) and the usual 4th-liner obsessives jumped on the pile.

  177. Don’t try to demand answers from me, Mister D. You’ve been trolling the entire time and now decided you want to be cute by having a “debate.” Save it for someone else.

  178. Lloyd: I posted something above I will put here also. No one is proposing to trade Hank. Sheesh.

    *iManny*

    _So. Those of us who were talking about trading Hank were doing so in a world where he is definitely not re-signing here. So it’s a trade him or lose him scenario. Under those conditions you have to trade him. Have to. But in reality, it ends up being a package because if Hank won’t re-sign here then we are in total rebuild. Edmonton style._

    _Then, we talked about a different scenario of “what superstar would you move him for” which was in another ideal world and wasn’t taking contract status into account._

    October 23rd, 2013 at 9:07 AM

  179. I was politely requesting an answer and not calling names. I’d never demand of you, Lloyd.

    (But I sure would like to know the sort of 4th liner you like. For real, I would.)

  180. I’d give him 24 hours to get out of it. They can’t get out of it in 24 hours, it’s a land rush.

  181. Carp, stop the foolishness, we both know “I have no problem with you”. Tamp down the sensitivity meter please.

    We also both know that I criticized this particular “insight” with my own insight and if you’d care to reread what you wrote you’d see that it might be interpreted as an apologia for the MSG suits.

    I have on numerous occasions praised your forthright approach and candid comments, but this time I do not since I believe your “take” is pie in the sky”talk like we are used to from the MSG shills!

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