Rangers at Senators tonight; Live Chat Friday


We’re going to do the Live Chat Friday at noon … which should be very interesting if tonight turns out to be anything like the last game. Also, let’s remember all the bad blood from that first-round series last spring, when, among other things, Teflon Chris Neil threatened that he will catch Michael Del Zotto with his head down. Among other things.


Pre-game notes courtesy of the NYR:


Thursday, Feb. 21, 7:30 p.m.
Scotiabank Place – Ottawa, ON

Rangers: 8-6-1 (17 pts)
Senators: 9-6-2 (20 pts)

The Rangers will face-off against the Ottawa Senators at Scotiabank Place (7:30 p.m. — TV: MSG Network; Radio: ESPN 98.7), in their first meeting since the 2012 Eastern Conference Quarterfinals. The Blueshirts currently rank third in the Atlantic Division standings, and rank ninth in the Eastern Conference, with a record of 8-6-1 (17 pts). The Rangers enter the contest having been defeated by the Montreal Canadiens, 3-1, on Tuesday at Madison Square Garden, to conclude their three-game homestand with a 1-1-1 mark. The Blueshirts have registered at least one point in nine of their last 13 contests (8-4-1) after dropping the first two games of the season. The Senators enter the contest with a 9-6-2 (20 pts) record to rank seventh in the Eastern Conference, and have won their last two games. Following tonight’s contest, the Rangers will face-off against the Montreal Canadiens on Saturday, Feb. 23, at Bell Centre (7:00 p.m.), in their second meeting in four days.


  • All-Time: 33-35-3-3 overall (14-21-0-2 at home; 19-14-3-1 on the road)
  • 2013: Tonight is the first of three meetings this season, and the first of two meetings at Scotiabank Place
  • Last Season: New York was 1-2-1 overall (0-1-1 at home; 1-1-0 on the road). Two of the four meetings were decided by one goal, including one that required the shootout. Marian Gaborik led the Rangers in scoring with three goals and five points in four games, while Derek Stepan tallied a team-high, three assists to go along with a one goal. Henrik Lundqvist was 1-1-1 with a 2.92 GAA and .905 Sv%, and Martin Biron was 0-1-0 with a 3.08 GAA and .857 Sv%.
  • The Rangers have registered at least one point in 10 of their last 15 games against the Senators, posting a record of 8-5-2 over the span
  • The Blueshirts have won six of their last seven games at Ottawa, out-scoring the Senators, 20-12, in those contests
  • Henrik Lundqvist has appeared in 26 of the Rangers’ last 27 meetings with Ottawa, dating back to Dec. 26, 2005
  • New York ranks 26th in the NHL with a 2-3-0 (6 pts) record on the road; Ottawa is tied for second in the NHL with a 6-1-2 (14 pts) mark at home
  • The Rangers are 3-2-0 vs. the Northeast Division this season; the Senators are 2-1-1 vs. the Atlantic Division this season
  • New York lists one former Senator on their roster: Matt Gilroy (2011-12)
  • Ottawa lists no former Rangers on their roster

Henrik Lundqvist — 26 GP, 11-12-2, 2.05 GAA, 1 SO
Martin Biron — 31 GP, 14-10-2-2, 2.80 GAA, 2 SO
Brad Richards — 35 GP, 13-13-26
Marian Gaborik — 16 GP, 8-10-18
Arron Asham — 35 GP, 8-6-14
Derek Stepan — 8 GP, 3-4-7

The Blueshirts’ penalty kill has held opponents scoreless in each of the last six contests (17 times shorthanded). New York has posted a record of 4-2-1 when holding opponents scoreless on the power play.
Power Play: The Rangers did not tally a goal in two power play attempts (4:00) on Tuesday vs. Montreal. New York ranks 30th overall (6-55, 10.9%) and 28th on the road (1-20, 5.0%). The Rangers are 1-6 (7:05) in five-on-three situations (last – 2/14 vs. NYI), and 0-0 (0:00) when four-on-three. Shorthanded goals allowed (1): 2/19 vs. MTL (Diaz, EN).
Penalty Killing: The Blueshirts held the Canadiens scoreless in one attempt (2:00) on Tuesday at Madison Square Garden. New York ranks seventh overall (49-58, 84.5%) and 10th on the road (16-19, 84.2%). The Rangers are 2-2 (3:12) in three-on-five situations (last –1/29 vs. PHI), and 2-2 (1:57) when three-on-four (last – 1/31 vs. PIT). Shorthanded goals for (1): 1/20 vs. PIT (Nash).
Four-on-Four: New York did not skate in a four-on-four situation on Tuesday vs. Montreal, and are now minus-1 in 10 four-on-four situations (18:35) this season. Four-on-four goals for (1): 1/23 vs. BOS (Gaborik). Four-on-four goals allowed (2): 1/20 vs. PIT (Letang); 1/23 vs. BOS (Horton).

The Rangers have registered a point in six of seven games when scoring the first goal this season, posting a record of 5-1-1 in those contests, compared to 3-5-0 when allowing the game’s first goal. The Blueshirts have posted a 5-0-1 mark when leading after the first period, and are 5-0-0 when leading after the second period.

The Blueshirts have posted a record of 5-2-1 when out-shooting their opponents, which ranks ninth in the NHL. The Rangers are 3-4-0 when being out-shot by their opponent.

The Rangers rank second in the NHL in hits (459) this season, led by captain Ryan Callahan who ranks seventh in the league with 53 hits. Brian Boyle ranks second on the team and is tied for eighth in the NHL with 52 hits, while Marc Staal leads all Rangers defensemen and is tied for 10th among NHL blueliners with 38 hits.

The Blueshirts have had nine players make their Rangers debut this season – Jeff Halpern, Rick Nash, Taylor Pyatt, Brandon Segal, Arron Asham, Benn Ferriero, Darroll Powe, J.T. Miller and Brandon Mashinter.

Rangers’ rookie J.T. Miller notched two goals while making his Madison Square Garden debut  on Feb. 7 in a 4-1 win against the New York Islanders. According to the Elias Sports Bureau, the last Ranger (rookie or otherwise) to tally multiple goals in his MSG debut was Chris Kontos in a 6-2 win against Detroit on Jan. 3, 1983. Miller (19 years, 330 days) is the youngest Ranger to tally multiple goals in a single game since Alex Kovalev posted a hat trick on Dec. 27, 1992, at the age of 19 years, 307 days.

The Rangers have registered at least one point in nine of their last 13 contests (8-4-1), including points in five of the last six games (4-1-1), after dropping the first two games of the season
The Rangers’ penalty kill has held opponents scoreless in each of the last six games (17 times shorthanded)
Henrik Lundqvist — is 7-4-0 with a 2.00 GAA and a .924 Sv% in his last 11 games; has held opponents to two goals or less in seven of his last 10 games (6-4-0, 1.90 GAA, .927 Sv% over the span)
Carl Hagelin — enters the contest with a career-high, five-game point streak (five goals, three assists over the span); has tallied 10 points (six goals, four assists) in the last eight games
Dan Girardi — four points (one goal, three assists) in the last five games
Derek Stepan — has registered a point in three of the last four games (two goals, one assist over the span)
Ryan McDonagh — four points (one goal, three assists) in the last six games
Marc Staal — four assists in the last six games
Rick Nash — has tallied an assist/point in each of his last four games (one goal, four assists over the span)

Ryan Callahan — 6 assists from 100th NHL career
Michael Del Zotto — 4 points from 100th NHL career
Steve Eminger — 4 points from 100th NHL career
Brad Richards — 7 points from 800th NHL career
Marc Staal — 6 points from 100th NHL career
Anton Stralman — 6 points from 100th NHL career

Michael Sauer
 (concussion, 12/5/11) — 15
Darroll Powe
 (concussion, 2/17) — 1
Rick Nash
 (injured, 2/19) — 1
Total Man-Games Lost: 28

Feb. 13 — Assigned defenseman Steve Eminger to Connecticut (AHL) for conditioning
Feb. 15 — Assigned forward Chris Kreider to Connecticut (AHL)
Feb. 16 — Recalled forward Chris Kreider from Connecticut (AHL)
Feb. 18 — Recalled forward Brandon Mashinter from Connecticut (AHL)
Feb. 18 — Agreed to terms with goaltender Cam Talbot on a new contract


About Author


  1. stranger nation on

    Nash not traveling to oottawa, agree the city doesnt do much for me either, but hey, we need ya big fella.

  2. So tired of PGA tv coverage. Because of the snow yesterday, we’ll miss 4 hours worth of coverage today until golf network starts at 12. It should be aired, nobody (I) wants to watch other crap tours or morning shows.

  3. Carp,
    I know MDZ gets some self inflicted bashing with his brain farts out there, but the moment I was sold on this guy was the Ottawa series. Nobody stepped up on Neil regularly but a young MDZ. He smashed him and slashed him at every opportunity, pretty big balls. You know it got to him and a little reversal of annoyance with this guy is great. Btw let’s not make chris Neil anything more than he is, a spot picker, cheap, and annoying. Would I take him? Yea but he is a major league spot picker. Let him Boogie with Stu

  4. Well. You ruined it, @CCCP@ . Had to go and talk about a healthy player. The next logical choice would have been Anisimov.

    Actually. That makes me think. Maybe there is a clause in Nash’s contract that when the players he is traded for are hurt he can’t play either.

  5. Great idea, Fat Guy. Prust is probably still drunk though from partying with his New York Rangers pals at some hip bar in Manhattan after his team trounced us.

  6. Can someone tell me when the goal line became the icing line? Watching pens flyers last night and they were all calling it the icing line. I have played hockey for 40 years and have never heard that term.

  7. Fat Guy Duberstein on

    Manny – The way they trounced us prompted Websters to add a new verb to the 2013 dictionary.

    The Habs PRUSTED us.

  8. Fat Guy Duberstein on

    another 5 generations will pass and we STILL won’t draft a Sutter.

    Man that family can play some hockey

  9. Ok, Asham might have totally won me over with his new twitter pic. Not quite “I’m glad he got a 2nd year” won me over, but closer.

  10. speaking of Ottawa, what are the chances Sather trades for Sergei Gonchar at some point this year.

    Just seems like that would be a typical deadline move for him…

  11. _Just seems like that would be a typical deadline move for him…_

    Christian Backman and Derek Morris and Bryan McCabe like this comment.

  12. Fat Guy Duberstein on

    Asham still VD – got the penicillin shot yesterday and hope it clears up by the Habs game

  13. Just pointing it out to the dude who after the last game pointed out how currently active Dubinsky (with his 1 goal) and Anisimov are on the Blue Jackets.

  14. In case there is another dud of a performance tonightIm glad im leaving the country tomorrow and will miss a couple of games including the foreseeable loss in Bell Centre.

  15. hwirth or something like that I believe. I just read a guest post on a Jackets blog about how he doesnt consider his own team a professional team. The Nash trade only reinforced that feeling. Was good stuff.

  16. Yea, he was there at about midnight when only a couple of us were up. Starting rambling about the Nash trade and then praised the Devils and Lou.. I may be mixing that part with mr.nonsense not sure but his main point was how productive Dubinsky and Anisimov have been. And again made the connection that the trade had anything to do with Prust leaving.

  17. Fat Guy Duberstein on

    Prust in MTL is obviously karma payback for us stealing Knuckles Nilan from them…excpet that Nilan ultimately did nothing for us except keeping the seat in the penalty box clean

  18. Morning ‘heads. the boys need a nice rebound game tonight.

    Byfuglien Chris “Cooke Junior” Neal

  19. Any chance the pace in tonight game is better then Tuesday.

    Ottawa trouble scoring. Could see another snoozefest tonight.

    Bottom line 2 pts is a must with a trip to the house of horrors the bell centre on Saturday in Montreal on the horizon.

  20. Fat Guy Duberstein on

    I have to admit that I am curious to see how Montreal supposedly picks up the pace when they play at home.

  21. It would make sense that HWirth is a Blue Jackets fan because I think he appeared around here during the whole Nash trade fiasco.

  22. hwirth is actually a Rangers fan. He’s at the games at MSG.

    thanks for that timely *new post.* on the last thread, Manny. Much appreciated.

    Good morning, Sally!

  23. Fat Guy Duberstein on

    Doodie – One or Two nothing? That’s just plain doodie…not Nasty Doodie, just plain doodie

  24. Doodie Machetto on

    Our team is not good. Their team is not good. Their goaltender is playing amazingly well. Ours is playing well. Therefore, they win one or two to zero.

  25. Just a thought guys but looking at these posts brings back memories of “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s nest! Or possibly the day room at Mateawan!

    And to Manny !!!!!!!!!

  26. News flash! Msg’s promo department has just announced their latest award called the “Anne Francis award”.

    This will be presented to deserving members of the roster who continue to exhibit ‘girly” checking tendencies.

    The first recipient although there were many deserving non contact types is, Chris Krieder whose unique style is to make a modest push,stop and excuse himself while staring adoringly into then opposition’s eyes.

    The award requires 20hr.s on community service watching a replay of the Pens/Flyers game of 2/20!

  27. Thanks for the word on HWirth, Carp. Let that guy know that he should be around here more often. From what I remember he was really intelligent and seemed to have quite an insider’s perspective.

  28. @NYDNRangers@ Torts on how bad the Montreal game was: “I would have asked for my money back if I’d been watching that thing.” #NYR #NHL



  29. MSG press release: “Under no circumstances will Madison Square Garden be issuing refunds for tickets purchased for the New York Rangers vs Montreal Canadiens game on February 19 2013.”

  30. Gaborik should be a shoo in for the non- contact hall of fame awards.Perhaps they could name the award after him

  31. Yea. I didn’t mean to compare him to Rod. He seemed to actually know what he’s talking about as well as not rubbing random predictions in our face 6 months after the fact.

  32. but if Gaborik doesn’t hit anybody but scores 40, isn’t that better than, say, Taylor Pyatt hitting everybody, none of those hits hurting at all, and scoring 3? Or even Callahan hitting everything in sight, some of those leaving bruises, and scoring 18?

  33. Agreed about pyatt carp but not cally because sometimes those hits or fear of them cause guys to either cough up the puck or force a bad pass. ..

  34. not suggesting Callahan or Pyatt aren’t effective. Just saying, sometimes a guy who scores also doesn’t hit people, and a lot of guys who hit people don’t score. Just saying, I don’t think Gaborik should be expected to hit people.

  35. I also feel that a big hit can fire up the team as well as a good scrap sometimes especially the staged ones. Just sayin

  36. So Brian Rolston is the new Sabres interim Coach? Guess we aren’t going to sign him for our blue line after all…..

  37. Well. Callahan rules because he scores a bunch (let’s just call him a 30 goal scorer) and he hits a bunch. Nice combo. Gaborik is more scoring. Pyatt is more, not hitting, but digging along the boards and wearing eyeliner/mascara. Nash is a nice mix (but he’s probably concussed so whatever….).

    I guess The Kreider is more like Gaborik than we hoped…

  38. You know what a nice combo is? Hagelin. Let’s just say his skating creates opportunities that other people would try to create by hitting people on the forecheck. And the kid is a monster along the boards despite his size.

  39. Jeff in South Dakota on

    So maybe the answer isn’t Wellman. The Rangers just need to find a 50 goal scorer who hits everything in sight and can clear the crease. I bet we could trade a third liner and get that. See, I solved all team problems right there. This GM business is easy. Muckler! get me a cigar!

  40. Carp, why would the blog need an insider,we have you?

    Is there anything you not telling us, i.e. have you been breaking bread with Sleepy?

  41. _I would prefer, if I had a team, that 10 guys bang people around and two of them score 40_

    That’s basically the Islanders, right?

  42. Gaborik should not be expected to hit people. Agreed. Players with rare talents such as Gaborik, Crosby, Stamkos should rarely be sacrificing their health to throw checks. Or block shots for that matter.

  43. I read a letter from Ryan O’Reilys dad in the Denver paper yesterday.

    Wow. Just knew that wasn’t going to read well. Reminded me of Eric Lindros.

  44. Jeff, Sleepy acquired two 40+ goal scorers but true to form it does not appear to be the solution.

    The Sleepyland express has been acquiring expensive FA’s for years with similar results.

    What would a public corporation do in these circumstances?

  45. Exactly, Carp. I don’t know why people suddenly want Gaborik gone after complaining for years that they only had one legit star. They get a second one and now they should buy out the first..

  46. By the way gang, if Nash isn’t traveling with the team I would think that would almost guarantee he’s got a concussion. I don’t think anyone aside from Sauer and Staal have ever not traveled with the team under Tortorella’s reign. Even Callahan was with them on crutches in the Boston series a couple years back.

  47. As much as anybody, I respect and admire what Ryan Callahan is and does. But he’s scored more than 23 once — 29 last year.

  48. LW3H, you see some huge difference in these two teams at the moment including their prospects?

    Given the derogatory comments on this blog It would appear other than the resident cheerleaders many have questions about the level of play and the near term future for the organization……………..including the writer who a few blogs ago suggested,”if anyone in the front office knew what they were doing” with respect to hiring Ruff!

    Thirteen years on a treadmill is a lifetime in professional sports for medicocrity,no?

  49. James, also, they haven’t ruled out him meeting the team in Montreal, so I don’t think the concussion is a guarantee.

  50. Buy out my foot! I would be very surprised if they don’t find a way to extend him. So basically if the 3rd/4th liner doesn’t score 30 goals, and if 40 goal scorer doesn’t play like a 3rd-4th liner they shouldn’t be playing in NY. Am I reading this right?

  51. Is the big fish actually saying there are systemic problems with the organization which should necessitate “administrative” changes?

  52. Doodie Machetto on

    Comnsense, yes, I see a huge difference between the two. Both in the short and long terms.

    I will say that those prospects would improve greatly if Wang (I said Wang, twice), would stop trying to manage the team and hire a good hockey guy to run his franchise. But as long as Charlie is running the show it will never be worth watching, except in that car crash kind of way.

  53. Maybe someone kidnapped a member of Rick Nash’s family. That would be horrible. But that happened to Yorvit Torrealba when he was on the Rockies and he disappeared without a trace because they didn’t want to tip off the kidnappers that he was headed to Central America to deal with it.

    Does Nash have relatives in Central or South America?

  54. Doodie Machetto on

    ilb, I don’t think Gaborik gets bought out, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they can’t work out an extension. It will be like when Jagr left: the star player will price out his services in dollars, in term, or both. Jagr’s killer was term.

  55. Gotcha, Carp. Definitely not a good sign. We probably won’t learn what the issue is. At least, not any time soon. Wouldn’t be surprised if he hasn’t been 100% since the start though

  56. I don’t think Gaborik will be staying with us. We already have too much money locked up into Nash, Lundqvist, Richards. The best thing to do would be to buy out Richards after next year (especially since he’s one head shot away from being a vegetable), retain Gaborik, and use the cap space saved from Richards to complement our team with other less expensive options. However, I don’t think Richards will be bought out (he’s a Torts guy), so I think it’ll be goodbye Gabby.

  57. Said it 9 times and I’ll say it a 10th. Richards gets it going and the top 6 looks drastically different. That includes Gaborik getting more opportunities. Gaborik would probably find more open ice playing along side Halpern at the moment.

  58. Have about two minutes before lunch break ends. But was reading the thread.

    Thanks for the kind words Manny and Carp.

    And by the way, I still stand by my feeling that keeping the homegrown talent together and seeing if they could continue the climb from Conf. Finals to CUP Finals while adding the offense through UFA, waiver claims etc. was a better way to go.

  59. Jeff in South Dakota on

    Slats: “Muckler! Muckler! Take the cluchmobile and drive Richie Chompers out on the LIE. Leave the gun, take the cannoli’s.”
    Muckler: “Arrrggg!”
    Slats: It’s good to be King.”

  60. Totally James. Once Richards is a productive Centre then Gaborik will become a productive Scorer. Then our top line of Hagelin-Stepan-Nash will be a BEAST. Much easier to get those two good lines out there against the other teams 4th line.

  61. Fat Guy Duberstein on

    Manny – you are onto something there, but the sands of this season are passing through the hourglass pretty quick lately. Hopefully guys start bringing the ruckus again tonight

  62. Commune Sinuses

    Again, you seem to think laughing at the Islanders is somehow the same thing as saying Dolan and Sather are the epitome of genius management.

    And as many others have already pointed out, the Islanders would have a much better and longer list of prospects had they not messed up the development of several.

    Can’t be bothered re-writing my summary of the Islanders’ current group of D-men that you are so enamoured with, but there are probably in the region of 25-29 teams with better groups.

  63. Gravy, You Know You Want Some Marty on

    It would be cool if there was a new rule that the Rangers could get the two top lines out there against only the other team’s 4th. Then again, it would be like a PP, so they’d probably never score.

    I said PP. And score.

  64. Doodie, we respectfully differ in our assessments.

    Remember Wang was/is a successful businessman and just because he got the accountants to fudge a few numbers doesn’t mean anything in a hockeyland!

    Now as my prime illustration of screwing up an already weak system we have our Boob form Banff!

  65. Insider report: Torts speaks to media that Nash is “lost in the streets of New York and they can’t find him. Told you we don’t talk about injuries.” Last he heard was a text from Nash saying, “This place more bigger than Columbus. It’s got big buildings. TTYL”

  66. Last year’s team would have found a way to beat Montreal the other night, would not have lost to the Isles in a shootout, would have won in New Jersey….last year’s team always found a way to win, that was their signature. This year other teams are doing that.

  67. Carp, per 12:27 post. Yes it is! I hate it when fans see a guy who can score but hey, he doesn’t hit, so he sucks. Same as in baseball sometimes: guy steals 30, hits .320, has the leather but 10 homers. Dump him. With the plumbers union last year’s team was I ain’t crabbin’ on Gab. As long as he scores. You know, unlike the new guy: Dash? Cash? No … Nash! (I’m sure he’ll pick it up. Really. I am.)

  68. if the top six forwards don’t produce like top six forwards, this team is going to struggle to win every night. if they do produce, this team is going to be just fine and better than last year’s team.

  69. Fat Guy Duberstein on

    can the same be said about the top six bloggers on this site? I know I’m not one of them, but I have noticed that as they go, so goes the blog

  70. Fat Guy is clearly the *CABER* of the blog. So when we do blog line combinations, he’s third defensive pairing, left side. Also the shot from the point on the PP.

  71. Fat Guy Duberstein on

    I’ll play the role of Cally, King Kong Bundying everything in sight, and scoring 18

  72. Doodie Machetto on

    “Remember Wang was/is a successful businessman and just because he got the accountants to fudge a few numbers doesn’t mean anything in a hockeyland!”

    I have no idea what you mean for everything after the word “businessman.”

    No franchise, save perhaps the Columbus Blue Jackets, and the now defunct Atlanta Thrashers, has been more mismanaged since the lockout ended that the New York Islanders. And it’s those three, by a lot. The Thrashers don’t exist anymore, the Blue Jackets came to their senses and have already started to turn things around by bringing in JD, but the Islanders are worse than ever.

  73. going to be very interesting how Tortorella spins the Nash story once it’s revealed he has a concussion

  74. Lloyd, I don’t understand you (and others) acting like a concussion is some sort of yes/no binary event.

  75. Post will read: “CaNASHtrophe” (Probably on three lines on the upper left with a large picture of him wincing or being hit on the right)

  76. To elaborate slightly, if Nash passed the tests and exhibited no symptoms, he plays. If it comes out he failed the test and still played, that’s an event. Symptoms being covered up or only appearing after a subsequent strenuous activity aren’t scandal, they’re unfortunate life as a contact sport athlete.

  77. Fat Guy Duberstein on

    they’ll show his wincing face with the two cartoonish parakeets flitting in small circles around his helmet

  78. Fat Guy Duberstein on

    maybe even have Fred Flintstone use a small mallet to tap back in the tall lump on his head

  79. carp you know better than that. just because you and other view john tortorella and the New York Rangers organization as infallible doesn’t mean questions won’t be asked

  80. _Symptoms being covered up or only appearing …_

    Just to clarify my post, covered up by the player, who either doesn’t disclose or doesn’t fully recognize, not covered up by the team. That’s just dumb.

  81. Lloyd, you can’t say “questions will be asked” as justification for a question you’re the only one asking.

  82. in case you haven’t been reading the last 20 years, I take the organization to task fairly regularly … and though I tend to think Tortorella is the best coach I’ve covered (starting with Fred Shero) I’ve taken him to task, also.

    but to say something that suggests he sent a kid out to play with a concussion is irresponsible, and actually further hammers away at your rep as a guy who blames everything but global warming on Tortorella. You and about three others.

  83. Lol. Just came across the word “duristiction” on an internet adventure. I thought my vocabulary was lacking until I realized the poster was attempting to say “jurisdiction.” It’s already a better day.

  84. yeah you’re right no one else is going to ask whether the team had any inkling that Nash had a concussion and how they missed it. they’ll just privately conclude Nash covered it up and move on.

  85. Yogi, next day after home plate collision: They XRayed my head. Luckily they didn’t find anything.

  86. lol Mister D that Asham pic comment made my day. He didn’t throw down with Prust I wonder if he’ll throw down with Neil..I still say having Asham here is like dating the girl from high school that all the guys in the neighborhood had their way with.

  87. Unless someone blatantly and forcefully instigates, Ash will do exactly as Torts tells him to do. That’s why I’m liking him more and more.

  88. Fat Guy Duberstein on

    Carp – You were int he biz early enough to cover Fred Shero? Did you interview him at Toots Shors?

  89. Have we not learned/learnt enough about concussions and their symptoms to know that not diagnosing (or being able to diagnose) one isn’t the same as “missing” it?

  90. _yeah you’re right no one else is going to ask whether the team had any inkling that Nash had a concussion and how they missed it. they’ll just privately conclude Nash covered it up and move on._

    You’re asking the question under the guise of “well, someone is going to”. But you’re asking it. And you’re always the one who asks those types of questions because you have an obvious bias.

  91. so you’re saying there will be no speculation, got it.

    and on a related note reporters will all quit their jobs once they learn your belief that they’re not supposed to do anything

  92. Say Tortorella plays it straight and tells the media that he took the word of Nash and his training staff that he was good to go, so put him in the lineup. Plausible explanation, but that’d probably seen as throwing Nash and Rammer under the bus instead, right?

  93. _so you’re saying there will be no speculation, got it._

    No, there will be speculation. By you. See above.

  94. clueless comment there. you can speculate all you want. to suggest that somebody purposely put a concussed player on the ice is libelous.

    I more than any other Rangers reporter take the team to task for hiding injuries. I believe, at least in the old days, it would ignite a contest among the reporters to find out what is actually wrong with the player … in fact, when I saw Brian Leetch on a training table, doctors hovering over his shoulder during the ’94 ECF and reported it, the organization went ballistic.

  95. Ho lee Jehoshaphat. What did we ever do before chat rooms? Opine in our heads. This hand wringing 24-7 (even with a win tonight) is unbelievable. 9-6-1. They suck. Why will they win you ask? Just cause I answer.

  96. Torts is the Bud Kilmer of the NHL. I’m not saying that as a fact, I’m just saying someone will eventually say that.

  97. I also think I’ve pretty much speculated the possibilities surrounding Nash’s injury, and mocked the organization for its secrecy, without slandering anybody.

  98. Carp, there’s also a big gap between what you’re doing (speculating what a known injury is) and what Lloyd is doing (speculating a known injury isn’t being properly treated, to the perceived benefit of the team and detriment of the player). Them not treating Leetch’s shoulder would be huge, them treating Leetch’s shoulder but trying to keep it a secret is … well … smart.

  99. remember when Tortorella said before the Capitals game that he was aware Nash had an issue and refused to say what it was but that they were going to see how it was in warm-ups

    you don’t think that will raise speculation

  100. Fat Guy Duberstein on

    can we all at least agree that Leetch crinkled his ankle by drunkenly flopping over a sidewalk ice lump?

  101. NY Post Headline for Nash concussion:
    > Knicks blown out by Indiana Pacers 112-89
    > ‘Melo scores 33 in defeat
    > Upper left corner: NYR Steve Nash injured p54

  102. _remember when Tortorella said before the Capitals game that he was aware Nash had an issue and refused to say what it was but that they were going to see how it was in warm-ups_

    Do you think McDonagh was monitored after the Cooke elbow? He played the next game.

  103. Doodie Machetto on

    Lloyd, take everything you’re saying in the speculation that it’s a concussion, then pretend it’s a groin injury.

    Before the Capitals game:

    “Nash has an issue, but we want to see how he feels after warmups.”

    Could be a groin.

  104. doodie:

    “Now that it turns out Nash has a groin injury, do you regret your decision to let him dress against Washington?”

  105. Yea, you would hope they would proceed with caution after the ongoing saga with Sauer……would hope…

  106. Dear god Lloyd, how often do you think a player goes into a game banged up but doesn’t miss time later? You’re the equivalent of the parent who needs to find blame so they scream at their usually cautious kid for accidentally spilling milk.

  107. not to mention Beukeboom, Richter, LaFontaine, Kypreos, Lindros, etc., etc. right though Staal and Sauer, Boyle and Powe. All of those under the same trainer and team doctors. So, no, I don’t believe the coach is convincing a concussed player to go out and play.

  108. Fat Guy Duberstein on

    Scene 1:

    Torts slams down his gavel on the final decision to dress Nash vs. Washington

    Carp – But Coach, isn’t a bit selfish of you to put the standings ahead of Nash’s long term well being? Are you doing it to secure your own legacy? After all, there’s no “I” in team

    Torts – But their is an “I” in win…how did you get in here anyway, son?

    Fade to black

  109. I understand, Mr. D. My point was, they created a contest among reporters to find out what Leetch’s injury was by trying to hide it. That time I won the contest.

    Not sure reporters today can do that with the limited access to players/coaches/trainers and to any rooms where those people might be.

  110. Good list Carp, I had forgotten the depth of our rich concussion history. But man this level of secrecy sure keeps things interesting

  111. FWIW, in almost every case except Staal (because they didn’t know), they have said “he’s got a concussion” when a player missed games with a concussion.

    which kind of makes me think it’s not a concussion, or they didn’t believe it was a concussion originally.

  112. How long after puck drop does Hagelin wait to go after Alfie and finish what he started in the playoffs?

  113. Supposedly, teams keep injuries secret so opposing players can’t take advantage? Yeah right!

  114. I dunno, maybe he’s just been under the weather but as to why the need for all this secrecy, who knows. I really hope it’s not a concussion but given how he was hit and what’s happened since, it seems pretty likely.

  115. Fat Guy Duberstein on

    Still, that was a GREAT playoff series. The enduring picture for me will be Prust and Neil hugging it out on the handshake line

  116. does anybody know if the Sabres also fired James Patrick, or if he was kept? ditto for my great friend and statistician, Jim Corsi?

  117. yeah except that the team knew he was hit in the head. if he started exhibiting “flu-like” within a day of a head shot some flags would be raised.

  118. Fat Guy Duberstein on

    Randy Carlyle on Ruff: “He’s probably driving around wondering what he’s going to do today.”

  119. My opinion on concussions and injuries. It’s generally wise to for the organization to keep injuries within the organization. You don’t want other teams targeting your player’s weakness.

    I’m sure there are still coaches and teams that will hide concussions to help the team. I’m sure there are some players that hide their own concussion symptoms because the reality is job security is important.

  120. _yeah except that the team knew he was hit in the head. if he started exhibiting “flu-like” within a day of a head shot some flags would be raised._

    What if his “flu-like symptom” was horrible, horrible diarrhea (which was made even more uncomfortable than usual because of his groin injury)?

  121. Jeff in South Dakota on

    Hey Carp:
    I once thgought I had an upper body injury from pulling weeds – it was just a heart attack. Silly me.

  122. Nash should be past the point of doubting his job security. The whole issue with Boogaard and guys like him is that they felt the need to conceal concussions for fear of not having a job once they were better. Rick Nash has a spot no matter how much time he misses.

    Concussions are at the point now where you don’t hide them to protect the player because a concussed player shouldn’t be playing at all. It’s not something you work through and hope for the best.

  123. Most interesting story I heard from some players years ago in a Westchester bar was (and damn if I can remember if it was about Leetch or Richter) his first night in NY he had an apartment over a deli and for some reason or another, which I also can’t remember, he had no cash or Amex, so he went downstairs and asked the deli guy if he could run a tab as, et., etc. and that he had just moved in upstairs. The guy was wary, and Leetch (or Richter) left. He took a walk around the neighborhood, came back, and a paper bag was at his door with assorted victuals. Nice story about the mean streets of New York.

  124. You suffer a concussion in the East Finals, you’re the coach and organization, you damn well hide it and play the guy in the Stanley Cup Finals. Rick Nash at 30% health due to a concussion is better than Mashinter at 100% health.

  125. Rick Nash ruining his career because he played with a concussion is worse than Mashinter playing way above his ability.

    Also. Mashinter and Nash aren’t really the same thing. One doesn’t replace the other. Pretty sure The Kreider is the lineup replacement there.

  126. Completely agree with that, Lloyd, it’s just that there is some middle ground between a concussion being hidden or “missed” and taking out a player anytime they exhibit any symptom that might end up being one.

    I wasn’t comparing Boogaard’s situation to Nash’s to be clear, just noting the Rangers didn’t immediately announce he had a concussion then.

  127. _You suffer a concussion in the East Finals, you’re the coach and organization, you damn well hide it and play the guy in the Stanley Cup Finals. Rick Nash at 30% health due to a concussion is better than Mashinter at 100% health._

    And here’s the other, more dangerous side of misguided.

  128. _Rick Nash ruining his career because he played with a concussion is worse than Mashinter playing way above his ability._

    How do I strikethrough? Because I want to change “career” to “life”.

  129. If I’m not mistaken, Bill Walton had an ankle problem and they kept shooting him up with painkillers all year and sending him out on the court. Years later, with a terrible ankle problem, he sued.

  130. It was a hypothetical situation. If Nash’s replacement is Kreider, or if it’s Mashinter, you want your best guy out there for a Stanley Cup Finals.

    The team and the player shouldnt worry about his career while in a Stanley Cup Finals. The Finals come first.

  131. LW3H,

    Understood. As I’ve mentioned a few times in the past, concussions are a sensitive issue with me. My view with these athletes is that if there’s even an iota of likelihood that someone has a concussion, you don’t play them. I fully realize that frequently these symptoms don’t even appear until days after the fact, and to that extent all you can do is closely monitor the athlete. But when you know an athlete took a hit to the head and tells you, “let me see how I feel,” you don’t play him.

    Again, there may be absolutely nothing wrong Nash and he’s just under the weather like pretty much everyone else has been this winter. Making more of a general point about how I think concussions or possible concussions should be handled.

  132. Jeff in South Dakota on

    Yep, walked it off. Walked it off right into the ER after two days of trying to gut it out. How’s that for balls as big as the building? And yes I said balls.

  133. If a player has the flu and management doesn’t disclose, and that player vomits on an official’s head, can that official sue for malfeasance?

  134. well, back to disagreeing with you, Tiki.

    re: Nash … it could be a shoulder or something, too. He hurt his shoulder in Europansyland during the Bettman-out. Lucic might have accidentally injured that shoulder while trying to mangle Nash’s brain (right, Mr. Shanahan?).

  135. Hate to say this, Tiki, but your post strikes me very much as something that would have been said back when blacks weren’t allowed to sit on the front of the bus.

  136. Fat Guy Duberstein on

    How do we point out to the CEO of the Journal News that Carp has been able to moderate 275 posts despite the freezing cold weather? And half of them non sequitirs. Give the man a raise, or at least another bowl of popcorn.

  137. popcorn much more likely than raise, FGD, but still very unlikely unless the CEO finds a free bag of popcorn and can find a way to get it to me free of charge.

  138. Fat Guy Duberstein on

    If they can’t find you the money or the popcorn, then why are they hockin me to chinik about giving me free papers from Monday to Friday?

  139. Yes, Lloyd, because valuing championships over health is a great comparison to racism.

    Bill Belichick, several years ago, used to force players to play with concussions. He’d tell them if they didnt go back in, they were gone. Now, at least I have my limits. I dont see a purpose in risking someone’s career and their long-term health for a regular season game of limited importance.

    Stanley Cup Finals, you dont get many chances to win

  140. and there is your Boston-biased reasoning behind a nonsensical statement. Could have done a countdown waiting for it. Or a drumroll.

  141. Excuse me, I’m looking for the Rangers Report Blog but seem to be stuck on Web MD. Can anyone direct me to the proper link?

  142. _As I’ve mentioned a few times in the past, concussions are a sensitive issue with me._

    Thing is, they are with me too. I’ve had atleast half a dozen and I’m terrified of what happens in 20 or 30 years. So we’re probably on the same side for the most part, just disagreeing in this one instance. Tiki, on the other hand. I can’t tell if he gets off on being told he’s ridiculous or really is ridiculous.

  143. Doodie Machetto on

    Lloyd, I don’t think you can begrudge Torts letting Nash play the Washington game if it was a groin/shoulder/anything not a concussion issue. NHL players, more than any other sport, play hurt. If Nash went through warmups and said he was good to go, then he’s good to go.

    Head issues trainers and coaches have to step in and keep a player out for his own good because a player will try and play through those, too. And forget about him going out in the short term, that could ruin the rest of his life. Just ask Chris Pronger, but don’t ask him too loudly or with the lights on.

  144. _But when you know an athlete took a hit to the head and tells you, “let me see how I feel,” you don’t play him._

    This is the part I don’t agree with. I made the McDonagh point above and pretty much every game sees a guy get hit high or have his head go off the glass. You can’t always sit just to be uber-cautious.

  145. That’s not a bias. I respect his decision-making. He does whatever it takes to win.

    Bill Belichick has 3 Super Bowl rings, are you (Carp and Lloyd) calling him mindless and nonsensical?

  146. also, pretty doubtful anybody would risk long-term injury to such a valued commodity as Nash by sending him out with even a possible concussion just to win that big regular-season game against Washington.

  147. All the evidence points to Nash NOT having a concussion.

    I’ve never heard of a player being a game time decision because of a concussion. The reason why you test the injury out is whether you can play with whatever pain the player is exhibiting.

  148. Fat Guy Duberstein on

    If you scratch your head asking how light can be painful, I’ve gotten migraines (much more mundane than a concussion) where the light is a killer.

    Then again, it could be brain freeze from the *ridiculous* bowls of ice cream and bacon I like to mangia

  149. Doodie:

    Anything other than a concussion (or some life-threatening) issue, nah, not really going to blame anyone. I think there’s a part of being better than other people at whatever it is you do for a living that requires you to endure a bit more than average folks. But head issues are not something you just take the player’s word for, and certainly not anymore. Way too much attention and way too many careers have been shortened because people decided being a little dizzy didn’t matter.

  150. If you guys think there aren’t some coaches and some players that feel the way I’ve just described, then you’re being naive.

  151. If it is factual that Belichick did that (and it isn’t, I’m quite sure), then he’d better have a freakin’ bus-load of lawyers … so many of them that some will have to sit in the front of the bus, and some on the front of the bus.

    but I think I speak for Lloyd when I say we are calling you nonsensical, not Belichick.

  152. Doodie Machetto on

    Carp, you mentioned Patrick. I still feel bad for him. Was a really good guy and good Ranger, just got shipped out a little too soon. I get that it brought back a really important piece in Larmer and a less important piece in Kypreos, but it was still sad that he didn’t get to be with the team for that. Same for Turcotte, but much less so.

  153. Jeff in South Dakota on

    Hey I stole a mail truck and its full of cans! We’re rich. Where’s the nearest return center?

  154. like, Bellichik didn’t have to order anyone to play with concussions in his life and he’d still be a piece of garbage

  155. Carp, it is completely accurate. I don’t make stuff up; I dont have to. Google the name Ted Johnson.

  156. _If you guys think there aren’t some coaches and some players that feel the way I’ve just described, then you’re being naive._

    There are. They’re idiots.

  157. Doodie Machetto on

    I think we can agree on that Lloyd. If it turns out to have not been a head, then there isn’t really any second guessing to go on.

    But I did think of what Carp said earlier: they’re usually pretty straightforward about when a guy has a concussion. Yes, they blew the diagnosis on Staal, but right away they said Sauer had one, they said Powe had one, they even said Boyle had one, and that was in the playoffs, when a guy could have his arm amputated during a game and the injury report would read “upper body injury.”

  158. I think that might have been one of the best trades Neil Smith ever made, because he got rid of two players whom Keenan was going to bury in the pressbox and got Larmer and Kypreos. That trade, and the short-straw drawn by Patrick, was all Keenan. Just like Gartner for Anderson. They could have won the Cup with Gartner, and in fact might have had an easier time of it, but Keenan wanted him out and Smith was able to get something for him.

  159. Tiki, your point might be well taken years ago, but not today, methinks, except in very odd and sadistic circles.

  160. Doodie Machetto on

    From Ted Johnson’s wikipedia page:

    On February 1, 2007 Johnson made news when he told the New York Times that he suffers from amphetamine addiction, depression and headaches related to post-concussion syndrome and Second Impact Syndrome.[1] He placed some blame on his former coach Bill Belichick for pressuring him to participate in full contact practice drills three days after suffering a concussion in an exhibition game against the New York Giants in August 2002. Johnson reported that during the drills, he suffered a second concussion, and he argues that Belichick asked him to participate against the advice of the team’s head trainer. Belichick denies these allegations. Some thought Johnson’s revelation was suspect based upon a December 20, 2006 column in the Boston Herald where columnist Michael Felger said Johnson told him that he would have considered playing for the Patriots in 2006 had they asked (in the wake of a season-ending injury to linebacker Junior Seau).[2] However in a February 14, 2007 interview on the Dennis and Callahan Show on WEEI, Johnson claimed he wasn’t being serious when he said that, and in fact stated he said it sarcastically.

    The Boston Globe and the New York Times reported in February 2007 that Johnson shows early signs of Alzheimer’s disease. [3]

    On January 28, 2009 he discussed his problems with concussions sustained during his pro football career and the impact it had on his life in a CNN article. He indicated he was very inactive for two years following his retirement, barely leaving the house, and described those as bad days. He describes himself as still occasionally suffering from anger, depression, and throbbing headaches. The implication is that he is feeling better recently; however, no details are provided.

  161. I’m not sure how Rammer could diagnose a concussion with such certainty. Especially, a few days after.

    Sometimes you know. Sometimes you don’t. Correct me if I’m wrong, ilb…

  162. Case in point, when Kreider got rocked by Orpik and then sat out (was it the very next game or the one after?), the concussion question cropped up, but then it turned out to be something else entirely.

  163. what turned me a bit was when it was announced he didn’t travel with the team. granted, there could be any number of reasons for this (hell, if he’s got the flu, you minimize the exposure of the virus to the team or maybe he needed to stay behind for treatment on an injury), but it’s like: cheap shot hit to the head against Boston, may not play against Washington, does play, scratched next game then doesn’t get on an airplane. hopefully all of this is wrong and the guy just has a runny nose.

  164. We can all just disagree without resorting to namecalling. If I had a chance to win a Super Bowl, to win a Stanley Cup, and I had the elite talent of Rick Nash, Im out there trying to win. I may never get another chance in my life.

  165. Doodie Machetto on

    Carp, I hear you re: Keenan, and on Gartner, as well. Man, I hated that trade. Gartner was my favorite Ranger at the time and is one of my all-time favorite players.

    Smith had no backbone. He would cave to whomever pressured him.

  166. Doodie Machetto on

    The Amonte trade. I know Matteau had two pretty important goals, and Noonan had a couple, even if one was credited to Messier, but man.

    Just have to keep repeating to myself that you don’t question a Cup.

  167. Tiki sounds more like Belichick than the Belichick he assumes. He’s entirely correct if he’s talking some years ago, but not in today’s climate. If a coach thinks a kid’s a malingerer, that’s a different story altogether.

  168. _We can all just disagree without resorting to namecalling. If I had a chance to win a Super Bowl, to win a Stanley Cup, and I had the elite talent of Rick Nash, Im out there trying to win. I may never get another chance in my life._

    Fine, lets scratch “idiot”. A player who does so is dangerously shortsighted. A coach who knowingly allows him to is something far, far worse than an idiot. A fan who says they’d play through it is still a fan risking nothing but words.

  169. coos, you’re probably right. But Lloyd has just questioned Torts today on the same subject. Lloyd, I was giving the hypothetical situation of me being a player. I’m not too sure I’d send a guy out there as a coach, but only because the level of scrutiny (as coos alludes to) today is enormous, not because I thought it was the wrong thing to do.

  170. I’m sure a guy is sitting home, nearly immobilized for two years since he can’t do anything other than lie down without feeling dizzy, fatigued, nauseous, being easily irritated with everyone and everything and basically wishing he was dead, but thinks to himself, “I’m sure glad I competed for that championship!”

  171. I agree with Tiki that in the past, the coach’s attitude was always “suck it up.” I heard it enough in my youth to myself and others in many sports.

  172. one of the best moments I’ve ever had at a Rangers game was last year’s game 1 against Washington and the “Ovie Sucks” countdown. I still get chills thinking about that.

  173. I have to learn to be more careful here. Having such erudite editors teaches one to expand his vocabulary. So, a plus, plus. :-)

  174. The team and the player shouldn’t worry about his career while in a Stanley Cup Finals. The Finals come first.


    Um……… NO

  175. Fat Guy Duberstein on

    I’d like to burst into an Ovechkin family dinner like Gallagher at a watermelon sale, and start the Ovie Sucks chant…until he becomes a Ranger in a few weeeks

  176. Sorry Tiki. This might be one of the dumber opinions you have presented on here. You would really risk someone’s entire life for a championship?

    Gaborik playing through his shoulder injury is not the same as Nash playing through a concussion. Concussions are very serious, and not scientifically/medically understood, business.

  177. Lloyd, Denis Potvin says to Ovie – “You’ll get used to it, son. Once it starts, it’s a forever thing.”

  178. What I would suggest related to an NPR program I heard a while back about concussions.

    Apparently some high school football programs, that have ample budgets, actually wire up their player’s helmets. A medical doctor sits on the sidelines and watches a graph of every players helmet impact. This doesn’t just mean ONE hit. It actually measures the overall stress that your head has taken through being hit for the entire game. When a certain player reaches a threshold, that player is pulled form the game to prevent them from suffering a head injury.

    If this exists. Why doesn’t Pro Sports have it?

  179. Tiki February 21st, 2013 at 4:50 pm

    Carp, it is completely accurate. I don’t make stuff up; I dont have to. Google the name Ted Johnson.


    Pretty sure accusing someone of something beyond horrible, which has never been proven in an impartial forum or court of law (see what I did there?), Is akin to making something up. Or at least hopping on the bandwagon of speculation.

  180. Eddie Eddie Eddie on

    Sean connery – I will take The Pen(is) mightier for 400

    Alex – it’s the Pen is mightier you moron

  181. Manny:

    Because it’s all about championships and you literally send a guy out there to die if you have to

  182. Fat Guy Duberstein on

    this place is starting to remind me of what went on in the back of my homeroom when the sub was going through the delaney cards

  183. Manny, the discussion is already over. Hypothetically, I’m not sure I’d do such a thing, as a coach in today’s age, only because of the level of scrutiny. If you think it’s an awful thing for a human being to do, fine, but there’s no justification in calling it dumb. (Let’s not forget that I’ve never actually done such a thing, I only speak hypothetically of doing so) I think I’ve always been pretty clear on here and to everyone that has ever known me, winning isn’t the most important thing, it’s the only thing.

  184. “If you think it’s an awful thing for a human being to do, fine, but there’s no justification in calling it dumb.”


  185. -“Making stuff up” “Hopping on a bandwagon of speculation”-

    Believing someone’s word.

    This isn’t a courtroom.

  186. seriously Tiki, what kind of politically correct nonsense is that

    Don’t call me a loser, just say I’m a non-winner? come on

  187. Lloyd, what are you talking about… you don’t like it when others try to troll you, i’d appreciate if you didn’t try to troll me. I’m moving on from this conversation.

  188. “Pretty sure accusing someone of something beyond horrible, which has never been proven in an impartial forum or court of law” This was a joke, right? Considering the accusations about people, having never been proven in an impartial forum or court of law, that fly around like birds on this blog.

  189. dunno but earlier Carp busted out “libelous” and “slander” within about 90 seconds so perhaps we’re all being scrutinized

  190. Lloyd said “scrutinized.” Don’t know about that one, sounds like there’s a scrotum in there someplace.

  191. “Big crowd out there tonight, boys; let’s try to win one, what say?”

    “He rode the bus sixteen hours just to say that?”

  192. Sorry for making sense guys!

    Lloyd- Great idea! Maybe we should volunteer to shoot all of our players at center ice if they just award us the cup?

  193. Eddie Eddie Eddie on

    I be thrice, never twice, home slice, head lice, fuzz dice, hanging low, wind will blow, tic tax toe, jolton Joe, Yankee clipper, jack the ripper, little dipper, sock and slipper, wife I kiss her,


  194. Manny:

    When they’re at center ice, sticks raised, Coldplay blaring, gun them all down. At that moment the new “Thank you, Tiki” is unveiled near the blue lines.

  195. Tiki – below is your post with commentary from me (in the style of Fire Joe Morgan)

    *Tiki* February 21st, 2013 at 5:19 pm

    Manny, the discussion is already over. @I think the discussion is over when people are done talking about the main subject being discussed@ Hypothetically, I’m not sure I’d do such a thing, as a coach in today’s age, only because of the level of scrutiny. @So because of media scrutiny you wouldn’t sacrifice a players life. Otherwise, you’re fine with it@ If you think it’s an awful thing for a human being to do, fine, but there’s no justification in calling it dumb. @Pretty sure that aiding in someone’s death, e.g. being the one who tells them to jump off a bridge, implicates you in their death at a criminal level. Thus, it’s DUMB@ (Let’s not forget that I’ve never actually done such a thing, I only speak hypothetically of doing so) @You will never, ever, ever (Thank the Lord) be put in charge of someone’s life to that extent@ I think I’ve always been pretty clear on here and to everyone that has ever known me, winning isn’t the most important thing, it’s the only thing. @ You have always been clear that you have an inability to make sound decisions@

  196. Doodie, when you don’t understand something it’s not a negative………simply ask for an explanation.

    Wang’s company Computer associates was involved with accounting fraud. This was part of the larger issue of essentially the ethical collapse of the accounting industry.

    In other words unethical behavior by the guys supposedly auditing the books!

    As for mismanaged organizations I again call your attention to 3 championships by two hapless franchises in a cumulative 136 years!

    Finally isn’t this a family oriented blog?

    What’s all this chatting about “head”???

  197. I love the part when Tiki advocated potentially killing a player to win a Stanley Cup and then said there was *no justification in calling it dumb*

  198. Manny:

    Call it felonious, call it a deplorable human atrocity worth of capital punishment, but don’t you dare call it dumb

  199. “I love the part when Tiki advocated potentially killing a player to win a Stanley Cup and then said there was no justification in calling it dumb.”

    I never said “potentially killing a player.” So you just made something up.

    Anytime athletes play, they could potentially get killed.

    When you string together two coherent sentences, I’ll let you know. Thankfully, I don’t ever, ever, ever foresee that happening. One coherent sentence is pushing it.

  200. Tiki,

    You stated that playing for a championship is more important than guy missing something that may well ruin the rest of his life. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

  201. or whatever it was I meant…stupid auto-type ruined my post

    anyone when it comes right down to it I know we all wish we could watch gladiators in the Roman Coliseum. screw these pansy NHLers and their need to enjoy life past the age of 35!

  202. for the record, I’m blaming all the typos on post-concussion syndrome and on Coach Tiki who forced me to play even though I was blind in both eyes and was on a forced diet of baby food

  203. Coach: “If you ain’t seen all you need to see by 35, you ain’t never gonna see nuthin worth seein’.”

  204. Jeff in South Dakota on

    We must kill them. We must incinerate them. Pig after pig… cow after cow… village after village… army after army…

  205. There are so many injuries a player could get in the course of a hockey game and we would never know it happened. The team does not give specific info on injuries. If a guy has a hangnail they will not tell you because the opposition will attack the hangnail when the player gets back on the ice. Maybe it is a tad paranoid but that is the way it is. My guess is he aggravated shoulder injury from the lockout. But I have no logical reason for saying that.

  206. Well, Jeff, I tend to agree with that, but could you point me to some literature I could bone up on?

  207. Anytime a hockey player goes out on the ice, he could potentially be killed.

    Manny, take a look back and see who began with the personal attacks. I’m confident you’ll see it wasn’t me.

    We have a truce, so I’d prefer if the two of could just moving forward past this conversation. I hope you prefer the same.

  208. Eddie Eddie Eddie on

    Im gonna get a couple of pipe hittin bruthas and blow torch……..You hear me hillbilly boy? I ain’t thru with you my damn sight.

  209. “Boys, I want to caution you that any one of you could get killed out there tonight, and anybody who wants to punk out, just say the word. Anyone? No? Well, let’s get it on!”

  210. Jdon

    The Rangers pretty much have given injury information out every time in the last few years though, so it doesn’t help with the speculation now that policy appears to have changed.

  211. “Coach, I got a concussion.”
    “You got a what?”
    “I think I got a concussion.”
    “I just wanted to tell you.”
    “Tell you what, Shirley, here’s a dime. Call your mother and tell her you need a hug,”

  212. in response to Lloyd’s 5:51pm joke, maybe I was too ambiguous. Hypothetical Coach Tiki would *never force* a player to play through any injury.

  213. “Coach, I got a concussion.”
    “Yeah, well I got a ’89 Torino. Anything else?”
    “Uh, no.”
    “That’s what I thought.”

  214. Tiki,

    I am sorry for piling on a bit. All I’m saying is that concussions are too serious a thing to just shrug off like most injuries. For pretty much anything else an athlete would normally deal with, I agree with you 100%.

  215. 35 is a great key number because of 35+ cap hits…… I wonder if you can void a contract if the player that is over 35 and he dies on the ice because you force him to die on the ice. If so, I imagine Tiki would have been hired as the Phlyers Asst. Coach and would have Pronger out there double shifting.

  216. Jeff in South Dakota on

    Are you nuts? A bounty? We could all end up in the clinker for this. You can’t put a bounty on a man’s head.

  217. I did look back Tiki. Looking back I actually see that you told me that this discussion was over…..

    Seems like Lloyd and Coos and Jeff and Co. are still making a delicious Hilarious Soup out of said conversation.

  218. Eddie Eddie Eddie on

    I don’t want any player on my team that won’t kill or be killed in order to win. I want professionals.

  219. But Tiki, above you said you *would* force a player to play through injury. Then you said something like….

    “Hypothetically, I’m not sure I’d do such a thing, as a coach in today’s age, *only because of the level of scrutiny.* If you think it’s an awful thing for a human being to do, fine, but there’s no justification in calling it dumb.” – Asst. Coach Tiki, the Gravedigger

  220. Np, Lloyd. I laughed at your 5:51pm joke. And I realize I made a mistake in not emphasizing that hypothetically, I’d never force a player to play with any injury, or even suggest to him to do so.

  221. Jeff in South Dakota on

    Oh, scared, huh? Afraid, huh? Ah, how long can you stay fresh in that can? Ha ha ha ha.

  222. Jeff in South Dakota on

    It’s good publicity! You boys just haven’t been bringing in the crowds like you used to.

  223. Manny, I said the discussion was over because I didn’t want to upset Carp by continuing it. That’s not a personal attack, and you know it.

    When I said, “hypothetically, I’d never do such a thing,” I meant allow the player to go out and play knowing he had the injury. Not force the player. I can see how you guys, or anyone, could take issue with forcing. I was too ambiguous. I mentioned Bill Belichick forcing a player to play with a concussion and carried on the conversation without clarifying that I wouldnt force a player to do anything.

  224. “Boys, I know that some of you are badly injured and have been advised not to play tonight. I feel obliged to remind you, though, that this is our big game against a hated rival, Saint Thomas Aquinas, and any of you who feel you have to punk out, I caution you that you will regret this for the rest of your lives.”

  225. Jeff in South Dakota on

    MidcoNet Xstream Wideband 2.02 Up to 50Mbps download and up to 10 Mbps upload.
    Cheaper than when I lived in CT too!

  226. Where were you in CT, Jeff? If you’re in Witness Protection, feel free to ignore the question.

  227. Jeff in South Dakota on

    Gearing up for armed insurrection after the zombies attack. Or Skynet becomes self-aware. And yes, I said surrection.

  228. Eddie Eddie Eddie on

    I was about to have manny read back the transcript

    Sloppy seconds… Good one

    Resign Avery

  229. “No ownership on seconds.” Next I’ll be told not to end my sentences with prepositions. This is the type of advice up with which I will not put.

  230. Eddie Eddie Eddie on

    JR – “can someone explain me how EJ has a job in the studio? He isn’t a rock scientist”

  231. sorry I had to cut out of this excellent conversation for a while …

    Lloyd, I agree (again). I thought it was clever when they did the Alfie countdown. I thought it was downright hilariously brilliant when they did it to Ovechkin.

  232. “I remember we had an assistant coach named Tiki, which you would think would be kind of a happy Disneyland sort of guy. But the fact is, he was a brutal sociopath with a mouth on him like a longshoreman.

  233. Eddie Eddie Eddie on

    EJ just said “he does all these little things in games that help you win games..

    Holy byfuglien

    Often when I breathe, I am breathing.

  234. Carp, I found a book in my dad’s cellar called “Arnie and Jack” by Ian O’Connor, who I think was one of yours. Should I read it?

  235. Eddie Eddie Eddie on

    Carp – cant happen… As soon as Christie hears the word carve….he’s bolting for a plate of cow

  236. coos, Ian is indeed one of ours. Great, great columnist and author and ESPN radio host. I haven’t read it, but I would suggest reading so if you have it. He’s a good guy whose ego should be a lot bigger than it is. He also did a really good book on Jeter.

    Some other recent TJN grads (I am the only one who never graduated I guess) — Ian Rappaport of NFL Network, Bob Glauber of Newsday, Pete Abraham of The Boston Globe, Kevin Devaney Jr. of MSG Varsity, Dave Lozo at NHL.com, our friend Andrew Gross at the Bergen Record … and many many others.

  237. “If I’m not mistaken, Bill Walton had an ankle problem and they kept shooting him up with painkillers all year and sending him out on the court. Years later, with a terrible ankle problem, he sued.”

    I wonder what John Boy and Zeb thought of that, coos.

  238. Oh look theyre going to auction off Richards’ stick..might as well. he hasnt been doing anything with it. (zing!)

  239. Asham got a concussion because Prust TOLD HIM to get a concussion…(sorry boys- couldnt resist lol)

  240. Denny Potvin (sucks!) is going to be on the radio with Donny LaGreca…if anyone wants to listen…

  241. Wang Lemons..Are those the ones you sautee down with white wine and butter to make Francese? Someone ask Torts during pre game interview. He’s I-talian. He should know.

  242. Has it come to anyone else’s attention that Daniel Alfredsson looks like Duane Allman these days?

  243. I had a bottle of shampoo that looked like it came from Duane Reede. I use it when I listen to Duane Eddy riffs.

  244. No, it was in a scrum in Game 1 and Boyle threw a bunch of short rabbit punches at Karlsson. That’s why Carkner dressed and went after him in Game 2.

  245. Boyle’s a large specimen. If he got totally outraged and didn’t care about being hit, he might be a problem. The real gorillas are ready to take a couple to throw a couple.


Leave A Reply