First Live chat of the season at noon

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  1. I’m the only one who got poked for bringing up the Universe! WTB??

    Yet, a lovely chat….

  2. Hey guys. I am trying to get better at this whole TWITTER thing. Follow me! I will follow you. We can be funny. Sometimes.

    @Spikesup

  3. I am not a Met Fan, or Dodgers, or Marlins, or A’s or Padres, but how is Mike Piazza not in the Hall?

  4. More amazing to me is that Aaron Sele got a vote, Shawn Green two, Steve Finley four.

    The vote:

    Craig Biggio 388 (68.2%), Jack Morris 385 (67.7%), Jeff Bagwell 339 (59.6%), Mike Piazza 329 (57.8%), Tim Raines 297 (52.2%), Lee Smith 272 (47.8%), Curt Schilling 221 (38.8%), Roger Clemens 214 (37.6%), Barry Bonds 206 (36.2%), Edgar Martinez 204 (35.9%), Alan Trammell 191 (33.6%), Larry Walker 123 (21.6%), Fred McGriff 118 (20.7%), Dale Murphy 106 (18.6%), Mark McGwire 96 (16.9%), Don Mattingly 75 (13.2%), Sammy Sosa 71 (12.5%), Rafael Palmeiro 50 (8.8%), Bernie Williams 19 (3.3%), Kenny Lofton 18 (3.2%), Sandy Alomar Jr. 16 (2.8%), Julio Franco 6 (1.1%), David Wells 5 (0.9%), Steve Finley 4 (0.7%), Shawn Green 2 (0.4%), Aaron Sele 1 (0.2%), Jeff Cirillo 0, Royce Clayton 0, Jeff Conine 0, Roberto Hernandez 0, Ryan Klesko 0, Jose Mesa 0, Reggie Sanders 0, Mike Stanton 0, Todd Walker 0, Rondell White 0, Woody Williams 0.

  5. How can these man-geniuses possibly justify not giving Rondell White at least one vote, for his Mom’s sake?

  6. Something isn’t right with that Brian Burke firing…You think he was a problem in Toronto, Carp…Made some questionable moves, but who doesn’t? Ahem…

  7. Yeah, I think there’s going to be a bigger story coming out about Burke, just because of the timing and because the replacement came from inside, Burke’s right-hand guy for a long time. Something happened, IMO.

  8. Alright, I got it…Joining the convo. Is John Franco a HOF. That’s one of a few baseball players I know..Only because he used to be my neighbor, lol….

  9. You cannot hit .281 and have 291 HR’s and expect to be in the hall of fame. Biggio has no place in the Hall. He would only get in because people want to punish Bonds/Clemens.

    And if anyone thinks that Steroids were the difference between Clemens and Bonds making the hall and not making the hall they’re insane. Bonds is easily one of the greatest players of *all time* with or without.

  10. bull dog line on

    Manny,
    I agree. I do no think Biggio is a hall of famer, but he will get in. 3000 hits is an automatic.

  11. I don’t think Biggio will get in. Next year is Maddux, Glavine and The Big Hurt. Year After is Griffey Jr. Pedro Martinez coming up. Too many people that actually deserve it.

  12. Doodie Machetto on

    My complete guess is that Burke didn’t want to make the move on Luongo and/or Gillis wouldn’t deal with Burke.

    What’s the deal with Redden? Is he on the books or what?

    Also, Kudos to Adrien Dater for breaking the CBA deal news, but damn, Edmonton #3 in his power rankings to start the season? Does Nail Yakupov play goaltender and the 5 defensemen spots not taken by Schultz? No? Just checking.

  13. Doodie Machetto on

    Bonds should make the hall on his Pirates performance alone. So even if you want to say, OK, he juiced and we should get rid of everything he did on the Padres, he should still get in.

  14. Totally agree Doodie. Take Bonds’ career and cut it off the day he started doing Steroids. He’s still in. Steroids are not the difference between hall of fame and not hall of fame.

  15. bull dog line on

    agree on Bonds. great player before roids. Clemens had 4 mediocre season in a row for Boston. in 97 he went to the Jays. it is believed that this is when he began steroid use. he won over 150 games after he was rumored to have used roids.

  16. Doodie Machetto on

    And as far as the steroids thing goes: I say put everyone in. Everyone from that era is tainted, so just put it on their plaques if they were implicated, tested positive, or admitted to usage.

  17. unless your criteria is character and cheating … which was mine, and many others. plus we have no idea when he started cheating … but yes, years before he became the Michelin Man, he was headed to Cooperstown. So, Mattingly was headed to Cooperstown too, until his back went on him? Same deal?

  18. Doodie, Redden’s salary is on the books for this year….But not for $6.5M. It’s $5.6M, which is his cap hit minus $375K and minimal salary this year ($525K)

  19. Also agree. I think you have to be either 100% in or 100% out on Steroids. If you are 100% out on steroids then you have to be prepared to actually remove people from the hall who are later proven to have used steroids at any time. It’s quite impossible to prove who was using and who wasn’t so why punish the obvious ones? I think the only loser in that scenario is the hall of fame.

    Further, the Hall of Fame preserves the history of the sport of Baseball. Sadly, steroids are a massive part (including financially) of that history. If you are going to let guys in that played before integration than I think we are committed to preserving history through the hall. Don’t hide the ugly parts of baseball because until we face their actuality and realness we will never move past them.

  20. “His career WAR according to Baseball Reference is 62.1, ranking 88th among position players and higher than those of Jackie Robinson, Yogi Berra, Harmon Killebrew and Hank Greenberg.”

    Many hall of famers have less than a .281 batting average (Ive pointed that out in spite of common knowledge that batting average has little value) He had a 112 OPS+, a 62.1 WAR, and 3000 hits which is pretty much automatic. At some point, he’ll get in as he deserves. He’s one of the top 15 2B in history. And when Biggio gets into the Hall of Fame, he’ll have the 2nd most home runs of any Hall of Fame 2nd baseman, behind only Hornsby, with the least HRs for a HOF 2B being 12. He’s just not a 1st ballot HOF in the eyes of the BBWAA.

  21. Doodie Machetto on

    Carp, yes, I think Mattingly should be in as well. His star burned bright enough, long enough.

  22. What an idiotic statement. You probably don’t have any idea what that stands for. Wins above average replacement at one’s position.

  23. Many of us still vote with our eyes, not with our calculators. Is Craig Biggio one of the immortal all-time baseball players? Or a stats compiler? Do you think he should even be in the same sentence as Joe Morgan ever?

  24. Mattingly is not a hall of famer. Sorry.

    You can’t use character as a criteria. If so, you have to eliminate guys like Ruth, Gehrig, Cobb, Wagner, etc. The color barrier was disgustingly more despicable than people trying to use an advantage that was borderline legal to stay healthy and be better.

  25. Are you speaking of yourself? The guy who doesnt believe fatigue exists, doesnt believe concentration/focus is an important skill for an athlete?

  26. tell me this, oh great nerds with calculators … how could Melky Cabrera have been among the very top of the sport in WAR … and then his team won the World Series with his replacement. Wins Above Replacement?

  27. Tiki, for some reason doesn’t like it here and insists on trying to get himself a permanent vacation so he can go to some other blog.

  28. No more, Doodie…Anything over league’s minimum plus $375K ( AHL, Europe, etc.) counts against the cap.

  29. Craig Biggio can be in the same sentence as Joe Morgan if he takes a job as a baseball commentator and becomes horrible at it. Then and only then. Not in the same stratosphere.

  30. There’s 25 guys on a baseball roster. Melky Cabrera wasn’t the only player on that world series winning team. One player doesn’t win a team a World Series. Fool.

  31. bull dog line on

    not sold on Mattingly as a HOFer either. had a few hall of fame seasons, but not a hall of fame career.

  32. I can bet my house that such an important issue as baseball statistics can be discussed without attacking people personally…

  33. don’t disagree completely, bull dog, but I’d rather have a guy in the Hall who was the best player in the game for a stretch than a guy who was never ever one of the best players in the game but compiled stats.

  34. I also think “Fame” deserves consideration … hence, I think Roger Maris should be in the Hall of Fame. Jim Abbott, pitched a no-hitter and won a lot of baseball games with one arm. Would rather see that plaque than the one that says so-and-so was a pretty good player for a very long time.

  35. bull dog line on

    I dont think Biggio is a hall of famer either Carp. I mentioned before that I felt he was a classic compiler.

  36. A few years ago it was suggested that Sather was offering Burke GM position in NY while Sather was going to retain his Team President position. Burke wanted complete control. What if Sather does it again? Would you like Burke to become a GM while Sather remains a President, considering what team they have built? Hypothetical, but would be interesting to see what people think.

  37. Boy, Burke and Torts … some fireworks there … and Larry Brooks’s worst nightmare. Maybe they could get Jeremy Jacobs to buy the Rangers and make it an anti-Brooks hat trick, LOL.

  38. Doodie Machetto on

    ilb, I will take that bet! I’ll bet you my spot for yours up on the hill. Although, come to think of it, it would probably hurt my commute to move up there….

  39. bull dog line on

    would want no part of Burke. if Sather were to step down, I would want the next GM to be from within.

  40. At the moment, I wouldn’t want any changes, bull dog. The last thing you need is to start changing the room. And Burke has a totally different style. He wouldn’t be my first choice either if Satyer were to step down.

  41. And to answer the question about WAR, replacement doesn’t refer to the actual player that’s getting replaced, but replacement essentially means league average player at that position.

  42. agreed. would you rather have a guy who shoots 300 times and scored 30 goals, or a guy who shoots 50 times and has 10?

  43. well if Sather paid attention to shooting % he maybe would’ve figured out that Drury shooting at about 18% for those two big seasons in Buffalo was probably going to regress to his career average.

  44. I never said you take the guy with highest shooting % and that gives you the best scorer (although I think BoomBoom suggested that least year), the best goal scorers in the league tend to fall around the 12-15% range given that most of them also compile the highest volume of shots (see Ovechkin during his 50+ goal years).

    But rather you look for a player deviating significantly from his career averages to figure out whether the guy’s shooting hotter or colder than normal.

  45. The day Craig Biggio is a hall of famer is the day they may as well give everyone an entry pass. Seriously? Craig Biggio? We cannot lower our standards THAT low. I wouldnt put Mattingly there either. Isnt Hall of Fame supposed to be for the best of the best? You wont get too many people saying Craig Biggio is one of the best players in baseball history.

  46. Mattingly was the best player in the game for multiple seasons, though. We have plenty in the HOF who were never that.

  47. Doodie Machetto on

    I have a different view than most when it comes to a HOF. To me, they are just museums. Why not put in every guy who was historically very important?

  48. bull dog line on

    there were plenty of voters pushing Schilling and Morris. don’t think either of them belong.

  49. And yes the aging curve comes into play too with predicting production. UFA age is right at where most players hit their peak years. You hope they don’t decline rapidly like Gomez, but you figure a top player has probably been playing in some professional league at least 7 or 8 years by the time they hit UFA. The odds of players getting significantly and consistently better after 600, 700, 800 games at the NHL is pretty small.

    Which is why I said last year that expecting Nash to become a 50 goal scorer at 28 when he was neer one at 22-25, is inflating expectations he most likely won’t reach.

  50. They already did lower their standards that low. Jim Rice (Not any boston bias speaking). Biggio will get in.

  51. I think Schilling belongs in the HOF, maybe in a few years. He’s not a 1st ballot like Jeter or Mariano.

  52. bull dog line on

    I don’t think the Rangers need Nash to be a 50 goal scorer. 30 will be fine. they needed him to give them more than 1 scoring line, to go against other teams top pair D while Gabby goes against the 2nd pair. his value will not just be in his numbers, but also other players numbers.

  53. agree. i made a mistake voting for rice … was never better than mattingly or dale murphy, both of whom were great for stretches, and better than many compilers in the hall.

  54. Shocked that is passed. Also someone get that smarmy weasel off my tv before I punch it.

  55. bull dog line on

    again I do not agree. rice’s 5 best seasons are better than murphys 5 best seasons. Rice had a better career. he was an RBI machine. 7 season over 100, and 1 with 96. drove in over 130 twice, and 120 twice. murphy had 1 season over 120, and 5 seasons total over 100. Rice also hit for a much better average than murphy. I don’t think you made a mistake at all. rice belongs in.

  56. I love Mattingly. I so wish he was in the hall of fame. It’s a real shame he got injured. I guess that happens though. It’s a shame Munson died. Shame Clemente died. But it happens.

  57. bull dog line on

    I think your argument for Mattingly, is Kirby Puckett. very close STATS wise. easy argument to say Mattingly was as good, if not better.

  58. Bernie Williams doesnt belong in the Hall, but he also didnt deserve to get less than 5% of the votes.

  59. Maybe I take that back……Schilling was better than I remember? My hatred of him must be clouding my judgment…

  60. Mussina’s win % is fantastic (64%). He won 270 games. But…..less than 3,000 SO’s and etc. He’s borderline I guess.

  61. Your hatred for Schilling is applauded, Manny. Not to talk politics -but I’m going to talk politics anyways- , he’s the biggest blowhard Republican who’s all about taking personal responsibility, and then when he cheats the state of Rhode Island out of $75M and lays off over 400 employees with no severance or anything, he whines about how his bankruptcy is everyone else’s fault but his own and that he needed more money from Rhode Island to be successful.

  62. bull dog line on

    can’t keep lowering the bar, Manny. have to have the numbers (300 wins,etc) to get in.

  63. A little shocking Piazza didn’t get in, but its hard to believe he wasn’t juicing even though he was never implicated.

    Would like to see the Crime Dog get in though

  64. Could NOT agree more Tiki. I abhor Schilling in real life as well as in Baseball world.

    bull dog – only problem there is that I don’t think any pitcher will ever win 300 games again. Not with innings limits and closers and the addition of the “Hold” as a stat. Pitchers are just going to throw less and have more games blown by others for them. Days of 300+ wins are over.

  65. bull dog line on

    you are probably right Manny. I guess the bar is going to be lowered for pitchers because of the points you made. the bar should not be lowered for position players.

  66. Amen, bull dog. They need to keep raising the bar for position players. If no one is viable for the year, then don’t put anyone in. Keep Baseball’s Hall of Fame totally hallowed ground.

  67. so, bull dog, then I guess I was right in voting for him repeatedly and not Murphy :) I was starting to think I made a mistake.

  68. Bobby Boucher on

    No, Carp, you’re wrong. Mama’s right. You’re all wrong. Mama’s right. Mama’s right!

  69. I take it Jeremy Jacobs said a few words as a PR strategy just to make Bettman look like a more sympathetic character in comparison.

  70. Jeremy Jacobs apology is about as hollow as the Grand Canyon, if you believe the rumours about him with regards to his role in the negotiations.

    He’s alledgedly one of the ‘hard-liners’ who would have cancelled the season rather than agree to what they did if he’d had his way.

    And he’s apologizing? How utterly insincere.

    Stay in the background where you belong and STFU!

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