Rangers at Penguins tonight

378

Pre-game notes courtesy of the NYR:

NEW YORK RANGERS at PITTSBURGH PENGUINS
Tuesday, Feb. 21, 7:00 p.m.
CONSOL Energy Center — Pittsburgh, PA
Rangers: 38-14-5 (81 pts)
Penguins: 33-21-5 (71 pts)

* All information through NHL games on Feb. 19

TONIGHT’S GAME
The Rangers will face-off against the Pittsburgh Penguins at CONSOL Energy Center (7:00 p.m.; TV: MSG Network; Radio: 1050 ESPN Radio). The Blueshirts currently sit atop the Eastern Conference standings, and rank third in the league overall, with a record of 38-14-5 (81 pts). The Rangers enter the contest having defeated the Columbus Blue Jackets, 3-2, in overtime on Sunday at Madison Square Garden for their fifth win in six games, and are now 9-2-1 in their last 12 games. The Blueshirts are 21-6-1 in their last 28 contests, dating back to Dec. 17, and have registered at least one point in 38 of their last 49 games since Oct. 29 (35-11-3) after beginning the season with a 3-3-2 mark. The Penguins enter the contest with a 33-21-5 (71 pts) record to rank sixth in the Eastern Conference, and have lost two of their last three games. Following the contest, the Rangers will face-off against the New York Islanders on Friday, Feb. 24, at Nassau Coliseum (7:00 p.m.), in the first game of a back-to-back set.

RANGERS vs. PENGUINS:
* All-Time: 117-98-23-8 overall (65-47-9-3 at home; 52-51-14-5 on the road)
* 2011-12: Tonight is the fourth of six meetings this season, and the second of three at CONSOL Energy Center. New York is 2-1-0 overall (1-1-0 at home; 1-0-0 on the road) following a 4-1 loss on Jan. 19 at MSG. The Rangers are 2-10 (20.0%) on the power play, and 9-10 (90.0%) with one shorthanded goal on the penalty kill in three games. Brad Richards leads the team with two goals and four points, and Henrik Lundqvist is 2-1-0 with a 2.34 GAA and .930 Sv% in the series.
* Last Season: New York was 4-1-1 overall (1-1-1 at home; 3-0-0 on the road). The Rangers power play was 7-22 (31.8%) in the season series, while the penalty kill was 20-22 (90.9%). New York out-scored Pittsburgh, 21-15, including a 10-4 margin in the third period and overtime. Ryan Callahan led the Rangers with five goals, nine points, four power play goals and three game-winning goals in six games, while Brandon Dubinsky tallied a team-high, six assists in the season series. Henrik Lundqvist was 4-1-1 with a 2.29 GAA and .926 Sv%.
* The Rangers have registered at least one point in nine of their last 11 meetings with the Penguins, posting a record of 7-2-2 over the span
* The Blueshirts have won four of their last five games against the Penguins, having out-scored Pittsburgh, 18-13, during the streak
* New York ranks second with a 19-7-3 (41 pts) record on the road; Pittsburgh ranks 11th with a 17-8-2 (36 pts) mark at home
* The Rangers are 11-3-1 vs. the Atlantic Division; the Penguins are 7-7-0 vs. the Atlantic Division
* New York lists two former Penguins on their roster: Ruslan Fedotenko (2008-09 – 2009-10); Mike Rupp (2009-10 – 2010-11)
* Pittsburgh lists one former Ranger on their roster: Pascal Dupuis (2006-07)

INDIVIDUAL CAREER LEADERS vs. PENGUINS:
* Henrik Lundqvist — 41 GP, 22-14-5, 2.40 GAA, 2 SO
* Martin Biron — 33 GP, 13-15-3-2, 2.98 GAA, 2 SO
* Brad Richards — 30 GP, 8-24-32
* Marian Gaborik — 21 GP, 9-11-20
* Brandon Dubinsky — 29 GP, 7-12-19
* Dan Girardi — 33 GP, 1-10-11

SPECIAL TEAMS:
The Rangers have tallied five power play goals in the last six games, posting a 22.7% success rate over the span (5-22). The Blueshirts penalty kill has held opponents scoreless in four of the last five games (13-14, 92.9%), and 18 of the last 24 games (60-66, 90.9% over the span). The Rangers are tied for fourth in the NHL with seven shorthanded goals. The Blueshirts have posted a record of 19-1-2 in games when tallying a power play goal, and are 27-7-2 when not allowing a power play goal.
* Power Play: The Rangers did not tally a goal in two power play attempts (2:28) on Sunday vs. Columbus. New York is tied for 27th overall (28-198, 14.1%) and ranks 24th on the road (12-90, 13.3%). The Rangers are 2-13 (10:23) in five-on-three situations (last – 2/19 vs. CBJ), and 1-6 (8:52) when four-on-three (last – 2/1 at BUF). Shorthanded goals allowed (3): 12/5 vs. TOR (Steckel); 12/8 vs. TBL (Moore); 12/17 at PHX (Korpikoski).
* Penalty Killing: The Blueshirts surrendered one goal to the Blue Jackets in four power play attempts (6:05) on Sunday at MSG. New York ranks fifth overall (163-187, 87.2%) and is tied for fourth on the road (90-102, 88.2%). The Rangers are 8-9 (4:34) in three-on-five situations (last – 2/16 vs. CHI), and 2-3 (2:24) when three-on-four (last – 2/16 vs. CHI). Shorthanded goals for (7): 10/20 at CGY (Prust); 12/8 vs. TBL (Anisimov); 12/10 at BUF (Hagelin); 12/10 at BUF (Callahan); 12/20 at NJD (Hagelin); 1/6 at PIT (Dubinsky); 2/12 vs. WSH (Prust).
* Four-on-Four: New York tallied a goal in one four-on-four situation (0:22) on Sunday vs. Columbus. The Rangers are plus-seven in 59 four-on-four situations (106:52), and even in one three-on-three situation (0:01). Four-on-four goals for (8): 10/18 at VAN (Gaborik); 10/20 at CGY (McDonagh); 10/27 vs. TOR (Girardi); 1/2 vs. FLA (Gaborik); 2/9 vs. TBL (Stepan); 2/9 vs. TBL (Richards); 2/14 at BOS (Anisimov); 2/19 vs. CBJ (Stepan). Four-on-four goals allowed (1): 2/9 vs. TBL (Lecavalier).

FAMILIAR FOE
The Rangers are 11-3-1 against Atlantic Division opponents this season, including a nine-game winning streak from Nov. 15 – Jan. 6. New York has out-scored their opponent, 47-30, in divisional play.

ROAD WARRIORS
The Blueshirts have won eight of their last 10 road games (8-1-1 over the span), and are 14-3-1 in their last 18 games away from MSG.

PERFECT IN PITTSBURGH
The Rangers completed last season’s series against Pittsburgh with a 3-0-0 record at CONSOL Energy Center, having out-scored the Penguins, 12-5, in those games. It was the first time the Blueshirts swept the season series in Pittsburgh since 1996-97 (2-0-0), and the first time since 1973-74 that a Rangers team won three games at Pittsburgh in the same season (3-0-0). New York has won five straight in Pittsburgh, dating back to a 3-2 overtime win on Feb. 12, 2010.

PLACE IN HISTORY
The Rangers’ .711 win% through 57 games is the team’s best start in 39 years, when the 1972-73 Blueshirts began the season with a 38-14-5 record (.711 win%), and is tied as the second best start in franchise history. *courtesy of the Elias Sports Bureau

BENCH BOSS
Head Coach John Tortorella registered his 132nd victory as Rangers’ head coach with a 3-2 overtime win on Sunday vs. Columbus to move past Herb Brooks into sole possession of sixth place on the Rangers’ all-time coaching wins list.

MEASURING UP
The Rangers rank among the NHL leaders in several statistical categories…
* 3rd in points (81)
* 1st in win% (.711)
* T-2nd in wins (38)
* 1st in regulation/overtime wins (35)
* 1st in fewest regulation losses (14)
* 2nd in fewest goals against (112)
* 2nd in GAA (1.96)
* 1st in hits (1,703)
* 4th in blocked shots (956)
* 4th in +/- rating (plus-42)
* 4th in goal differential (plus-45)

QUICK HITS:
* This is the latest the Rangers have been in first place of the Eastern Conference standings since the 1995-96 season, when New York held the top position through games played on Mar. 15, 1996 (NYR game #68). *courtesy of the Elias Sports Bureau
* New York has registered at least one point in 38 of their last 49 games (35-11-3), dating back to Oct. 29, after beginning the season with a 3-3-2 mark
* New York is 14-1-2 when leading after the first period and 24-0-2 when leading after the second
* The Rangers rank fourth in the league with a .267 win% when trailing after two periods (4-10-1), and their four third period comeback victories are tied for ninth in the NHL; New York has trailed entering the third period in 15 games this season, which is the fewest in the league
* New York leads the NHL with a .769 win% when out-shooting their opponent (20-6-0)
* The Rangers lead the league when scoring first, posting a 28-1-2 mark (.903 win%) in those contests; Their 28 wins rank third in the NHL

THE HOT LIST:
* Henrik Lundqvist is 8-1-0 with a 1.20 GAA, .955 Sv% and three shutouts in his last nine games
* Ryan Callahan has tallied seven points (six goals, one assist) in the last six games
* Ryan McDonagh has tallied three points (two goals, one assist) in the last four games
* Marian Gaborik has tallied 16 points (four goals, 12 assists) in the last 15 games
* Brad Richards has tallied six points (two goals, four assists) in the last six games
* Derek Stepan has tallied seven points (two goals, five assists) in the last eight games
* Michael Del Zotto has tallied nine points (two goals, seven assists) in the last 11 games
* Artem Anisimov has tallied seven points (four goals, three assists) in the last eight games
* Carl Hagelin has tallied 10 points (two goals, eight assists) in the last 14 games

MILESTONES APPROACHING:
* Ryan Callahan: 1 goal from 100 NHL career
* Steve Eminger: 4 points from 100 NHL career
* Marian Gaborik: 3 games from 700 NHL career
* Ryan McDonagh: 3 games from 100 NHL career
* John Mitchell: 2 games from 200 NHL career

INJURIES:
* Michael Sauer (concussion, 12/5) — 33
* Ruslan Fedotenko (injured, 2/9) — 5
Total Man-Games Lost: 174

 

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378 Comments

  1. ZzZz NYR ZzZz© " Don't stepan the logo!!!"...says Greg L. on

    three words about the Nash situation….GET IT DONE!!!!

  2. ZzZz NYR ZzZz© " Don't stepan the logo!!!"...says Greg L. on

    Hatty!!!!!!!

    LETS GO RANGERSS!!!!

    I can’t WAIT till GO TIME!!!!!

  3. BTW, was reading the last thread and wanted to comment on something. Someone stated that MDZ “looked weak” this season.

    With all due respect… HUH?

    That kid has not only been physically strong and played the body.. he has played with a snarl that I NEVER thought we were going to see in his game. He has turned his entire game and career around after last years disaster.

    MDZ has NOT backed away from anyone this year.

  4. Wow, always a snarky answer, eh Carp? Ok, man, whatever.

    A month ago there wasn’t a mention of Nash even being available, anywhere;
    the GM was still saying no way, no nuclear option.

    Please forgive me for being off by one player in what is still likely to be the deal, if it goes down.

    And should it not, some of those other possibilities I sent you could well be revisited.

  5. Staal Wart and the Overachievers on

    Rod, seriously dude you sound like a little school boy looking for recognition….
    Oh and Morning Headzo’s!

  6. Game Day!

    Who will dish out more cheap shots tonight…Malkin or Cooke ??

    A healthy Asham will be a big test for Mr. Bickel.

    LGR !!!!!!!!!!!

  7. Good morning, boneheads!

    Lol @ “miscombobulated” and “misarray” last night. Why can’t someone tell him, he is on national TV. And does he read at all? It’s been going on for long enough for someone at NBCS to interfere. Do they not have editors? Very “misturbing”

  8. Good game day morning. I hope a better outcome tonight than the last Penguins meeting. All my in-laws are from Pittsburgh so I need to return all the good wishes that came my way last game…lol

  9. Staal Wart and the Overachievers on

    Carp, did u get my email?
    Carp, did u get my email?
    Carp, did u get my email?
    Carp, did u get my email?

  10. ha! misturbing…good one ilb. he’s obviously very misengaged from the English language. OK, off to work…later all!

  11. It would seem that the natives are restless this day. Listen…are those the tumbrils I hear rolling?

    I find myself wondering about what happens next. This blog is getting downright….exciting.

  12. What is it you bring to the table Staal Wart?

    Silence…..

    Don’t forget to take out the garbage; I can hear your mom from here yelling down
    the basement steps.

  13. We don’t need no stinikn Nash. Anyone remember Bobby Holik? At 8 mil until 2017, it is insane. Keep the cap roon, and go after Zack Parise. My friends in Columbus say when in the heat of battle…Nash is soft. Stay the course!!!

  14. Anyone remember Bobby Holik? At 8 mil until 2017, it is insane. Keep the cap roon, and go after Zack Parise.

    ……..

    Why don’t you go ahead and re-read what you wrote a few times. Go ahead, we’ll wait.

  15. Doodie Machetto on

    “Keep the cap roon, and go after Zack Parise.”

    Seriously? How are these people allowed to have opinions?

  16. Doodie Machetto on

    Salty, you nailed it. I just don’t understand how some people’s brains work (or don’t work).

  17. It wouldn’t surprise me that Nash doesn’t get traded until draft day or somewhere in between. The asking price for Nash who is a one dimensional player who has a bad contract is ridiculous. Howson made a huge mess in Columbus and now thinks he can fleece a organization by getting all there young players/top prospects for Nash to rebuild the Blue Jackets.

  18. If a team is supposedly in on Nash, would they also be in on Parise if he’s available during the summer?

  19. Obviously some people don’t see the big picture. We need the cap room to re-sign many of our young players in the next 2 yrs. NASH IS SOFT. Other thn Richards, tell me about the great free agents that Sather has signed….Holik, Nomez, Dreary…need I go on. Nash is a loser. And an expensive one at that. Look at the long range picture!

  20. Doodie Machetto on

    “Other thn Richards, tell me about the great free agents that Sather has signed”

    Du, there are two problems with this statement as it relates to Nash. First, Richards was not a great free agent signing. In fact, I would argue it was a bad signing because we are locked in for way too much money on just a pretty good player. Second, you are talking about Sather’s track record with free agents with respect to Nash… who would not be a free agent signing.

  21. Doodie Machetto on

    Du, you still also don’t seem to recognize the massive contradiction in complaining about Nash’s salary and it’s effect on the cap, but then throwing what will be even more money and term after Zach Parise.

  22. Doodie Machetto on

    (Who will actually be a free agent signing, which you posit as Sather’s Achilles Heel)

  23. “MDZ has NOT backed away from anyone this year.”

    This is 100% false. If you saw Prust’s fake balltap at the end of the Columbus game, you saw MDZ not only back down, but pretty much buckle at the knees.

  24. Boom Boom Bathgate on

    This is obvious but bears repeating…

    Whether you acquire a player via trade or Free Agency, his contract counts against the cap. Having said that, it seems to me that by adding a top-heavy Nash contract to the Gaborik and Richards top-heavy contracts this club is already carrying, knocks far too many young players out of the Rangers immediate and future picture, and puts them into their upside production years in enemy uniforms.

    Nash really looks like the straw that could break the Rangers back and bring to a screetching halt the current, upper-level contention status the club is getting acquainted with for the first time in years. Parting with Erixon, Miller and Thomas-types now, in a trade, will just be the start of the carnage that will come into play over the summer. So that the germaine question remains: Is Slats out for his own P.R. and one-shot “glory,” or will he put the New York Rangers organizational best present and future interests ahead of his own?

    You know something, I am getting the vivid impression that there will be no Stanley Cup around here, now or in the foreseeable future, is Nash is acquired. Must be close to a couple dozen forwards in the NHL right now who are more productive and bring a better all-around game to the mix, right now. And given that he is 28, we have already seen his best years. Titanic revisited if this potential nightmare for the Rangers goes down.

  25. i think what the guy meant was no to nash, save the cap space for parise, not get parise to save cap space. dont nitpick the guys comments apart jeez. like u couldnt figure out what he meant

  26. i think what the guy meant was no to nash, save the cap space for parise, not get parise to save cap space. dont nitpick the guys comments apart jeez. like u couldnt figure out what he meant

    ***

    where’s ur capitalization and puncuation at?

  27. Dmitry Chesnokov@dchesnokov

    #NYR Anisimov: “[Winning] games consists of 95% of how and what you do at practice and only 5% from talent.” (via SovSport)

  28. If I may answer for Du … We can afford one more big contract under our current structure and there’s no argument that Parise + Dubinsky puts us much tighter to the cap going forward. The difference being that keeping Dubinsky and those prospects gives us, more or less, a completely full (and I’d argue better overall and more balanced) roster anyway. There wouldn’t be a hole to speak of, Prust and Boyle would be 4th liners/PK guys, Fedo would be out, Mitchell and Rupp would be our 12th/13th forwards, assuming Sauer comes back Stralman would be out and one of Bickel or Eminger would be our 7th defenseman. Top to bottom, that’s a really, really strong roster. Nash in for Dubinsky is an obvious upgrade, but we’re still backfilling other roster spots under the assumption that Kreider and/or Erixon had to be used in the deal.

    (Above obviously assumes the best case acquisition of Parise. If we whiff there, we’re still just as strong as we are right now, a 1st place team looking at Kreider and Erixon coming aboard. And *then* we consider dealing from depth for a top line wing. Hopefully one who is either better or cheaper than Nash, who’s a bit of an upside-down asset. Nash now isn’t ideal from an asset cost or dollar standpoint and it closes the door on a far more ideal best case scenario.)

  29. “Salty February 21st, 2012 at 10:14 am

    Richards is/was by far a bigger gamble than Nash.”

    exactly and to bring in another gamble plus give away future young players and have two is a killer for now and the future.

  30. Does anyone remember the name of that ‘Rangers’ blog that was incessantly advertised by a poster here? I don’t know why I started thinking about it, but it still makes me chuckle…

  31. keeping the cap room and going after Parise is a good idea. Parise is a better player then Nash, plays in the metro NY area, and he would be a great addition to any team.

    3 words on gettting nash: NO NO NO

  32. A very good posting by MR D! I agree 100%. Stay the course. If Kreider can make the team this spring, we are LOADED! Keep the nucleus intact. Dubi, MDZ, Mcdonough…all untouchable. I realize that Dubi is in a scoring slump. But please remember the big goals he scored down the stretch last season (Bruins game winner) and he was our best player vs the Caps in the playoffs. Dubi = Con Smythe this year.

  33. just imagine the look on hanks face when they finally get eliminated from contention. can u guys imagine this years team blowing a 3-0 series lead? seems impossible doesnt it?

  34. Kovalchuk is a much better player than Nash and look what the Devils gave up to get him! Garbage!

    “Johnny Oduya, Niclas Bergfors and junior prospect Patrice Cormier, and a first round selection in the 2010 NHL Entry Draft”

    Can’t Sather use that trade as an example and give CBJ Eminger, MZA, and Bourque and first rounder? Seems fair!

  35. I have zero problem with getting Nash for the right price. I think the Rangers are of the same mindset. They will give whatever they feel comfortable with giving. The proposals being thrown about won’t happen. Sather will wait until the other guy flinches or get something else. He is in the position of power in this situation. Howson is on the hot seat, not Sather. The pressure is on him. Sather can get the guy he wants at his price or go another route. There is a lot of stress over this when there shouldn’t be. Nash would be a beast on this team because he wouldn’t be the only player carrying the offense.

    Regardless, I am not sweating this. I don’t think Torts has any desire to throw away the future for the present. If Torts is as involved in roster decisions as we are lead to believe, Nash only comes here for something that the Rangers can stomach. The guys who have been building this system for the past few years will not be quick to throw it away.

  36. Kovalchuk was an impending UFA and the whole world knew he wanted out of Atlanta. Not an apples to apples comparison.

  37. Sather will wait until the other guy flinches or get something else. He is in the position of power in this situation. Howson is on the hot seat, not Sather.

    ***

    In terms of job security sure. But Howson doesn’t have to trade Nash. Sather has a team that could potentially be one trade away from improving its chances to win. Howson is probably canned no matter what happens with Nash, that’s a lot less pressure than deciding whether to seriously alter the core of your franchise.

  38. yeah as if Nash is dying to stay in Columbus! True, he is not an impending UFA but his contract is what makes him less attractive to many teams unlike Kovalchuk. So the CBJ GM should take what he’s given or keep Nash for the next 5 years and still go nowhere…

  39. Dan Shea

    agree 100%. In fact, it would be right up Glen’s alley to make a steal and trade Wolski straight up for someone useful. Then, in a second move, see the Rangers package a pick, one of our spare d-men and mid level prospect for another decent player.

    Get two small improvements for minimal cost…

  40. Nash could have hit UFA a couple of seasons ago and commanded a pretty rich deal and have a choice of teams he could have went to. But he didn’t and chose to take CBJ’s offer.

  41. “how’d that gaborik signing work out? and the girardi signing?”

    Gaborik is actually a really good parallel here. Sather seems to fall into the trap of throwing elite-level contracts at the best UFAs available regardless of whether they’re elite players or not every offseason we have money to spend. Sometimes a legit star like Gaborik is available and makes it a foolproof plan; more often than not its a second tier player like Richards or Gomez and sometimes its even worse. Parise is Gaborik, he’s a legit 1st line NHL star. To have him coincide with a money available year would be ideal. Sather can’t screw it up because Sather knows who the best available are, he just doesn’t always know when doing nothing is better than signing the best available.

    (I imagine the worst case offseason would be Parise and Suter resigning and Sather dumping a $30MM contract on someone like Semin or Penner or Hemsky because, hey, they were the best available and we had money to spend. He’s a good judge of talent and seemingly great trade negotiator, but an absolutely terrible economist.)

  42. Mister D

    while I agree with you remember that Tortorella can pretty much veto any move Sather makes so the chance of him allowing them to sign Semin or Hemsky is slim to none. Penner on the other hand would be a nice signing but i would assume he is looking for a 1 year deal to try and build up his value…

  43. also, nash is having the worst season in his career. that obviously doesnt help the bj’s move him. but no, sather has other options. he shouldnt be stressing out like howson is.

  44. couple of seasons ago it seemed like Columbus was on the right track…even making the playoffs for the first time… so i guess he wanted to show that he’s committed to that franchise… but things went back to where they were pretty quickly and they became the crappy franchise again…they are getting a top 2 pick this year…so its time to close the book on Nash.

  45. Where’d you hear that Manny? Then again maybe the Pens have noticed that the last few games of goalies the Rangers were supposed light up like Crawford and Mason have kept the Rangers guns fairly silent. They can get 3 regulation goals (including a PPG) past Tim Thomas but only 2 regulation goals against goalies with sub-.900 save %.

  46. Doodie Machetto on

    Grabby, but that’s not what he said. He said this line, which applies just the same to Parise:

    “Obviously some people don’t see the big picture. We need the cap room to re-sign many of our young players in the next 2 yrs”

    The same thing applies if you throw it after Parise. In fact, probably more-so, since Parise is going to ask for more than Nash gets.

    That’s why he is contradicting himself. If you don’t want Nash because you don’t want to part with the assets, that’s fine. If you don’t want him because you don’t think he’s a good player, that’s fine.

    If you don’t want him because you don’t want the effects of the cap hit, that’s fine too, but you can’t then say but adding Parise is OK.

  47. even in their best season, they got swept by detroit. that team needs help more than we do. thats the main thing to consider here.

  48. I did not Carp – hook me up!

    CT – I think Brent Johnson is the goalie not on the ice at the morning skate. I think.

  49. Just upgrading their goaltending, meaning ending the Mason experiment would put them in a better position than they are now. I’m not saying the Jackets are a contender any time soon but there are probably a few moves they could make that aren’t nearly as substantial as trading Nash. As bad as they are now, I could easily see a few quick changes putting them back to being a team that could solidly compete for the bottom playoff spots in the West as early as next season.

  50. I’m sure a couple of Rangers teams the last few seasons would have gotten swept by some of those Detroit teams of the last few years.

  51. a legit star like Gaborik is available and makes it a foolproof plan

    ……..

    LOL…foolproof….right…Gaborik was another giant Question Mark that divided the fanbase due to his history of being out with injuries.

    Nash would easily be the wisest contract of the Gaborik/Richards/Nash trio.

  52. First he called Carolina “the Panthers” then he used missaray and miscombobulated in the same, um, thought about the Capitals.

    Johnny, I hate the Nash.

  53. “Parise would still entail parting with assets. Just further down the line.”

    Absolutely, but there’s a lot to be gained by waiting and dictating the terms. If Sauer never recovers to his prior level or Anisimov never proves himself worthy of $4MM per year, we can let those guys go and fill in the prospects. If we move those prospects today, we’re stuck.

    This whole conversation would be different if Nash were a no-doubt kind of player. Its not like we’re deciding assets-for-Stamkos or a UFA signing of Parise. The better player here is very likely the one who wouldn’t cost us anything but cash. And if he doesn’t work out, there are still better combinations of talent/cap-hit like Bobby Ryan that could come available again. Nash is the best player (publicly known to be) available. That doesn’t make him worth the cost.

  54. Doodie Machetto on

    CTB, I agree with you on Columbus. I also think losing Wisniewski for a 10th of the season to start the year set them down a bad path right from the start. When he’s in the lineup, they’re a better team. Also, forcing Carter to go with Nash when they’re both volume shooters was a mistake.

    But as for what you said about giving up assets later if we get Parise, it’s not apples to apples. At least when we dump those assets (Dubinsky for sure, possibly another roster player, like Anisimov), we will get something in return for them, even if it’s just low level draft picks.

  55. lmao. “same, uhh thought” as the capitals. he also “thinks” we need nash. so now we know what sather should do.

  56. Doodie Machetto on

    Grabby, Gaborik was a bigger risk than Richards, but Richards was more undeserving of his contract. Gaborik, when healthy, would deserve every penny of his deal.

    Richards will never live up to his contract. Especially in the last 6 years of the deal.

  57. we should run the team. carp, u buy the rangers, we’ll run the team. gre will be gm, orr will be asst gm. sally will be head coach, and top line center/pp qb/ goalie/ clock operator

  58. Those are AMAZING Grabby! Thanks!

    I am completely miscombobulated because Brent Johnson will maybe be in goal. The team better not be misarrayed because he likes to fight.

  59. Nash would easily be the wisest contract of the Gaborik/Richards/Nash trio.

    ***

    On a stand alone basis, yes. But they already have 3 big cap hits, got to include Lundqvist too. Adding a 4th still entails a decent amount of risk given that it can really handcuff a team if any of the big 4 start to tail off rapidly.

    And for Nash specifically we’d have to hope that he turns himself around for the rest of this season plus the playoffs (where he’s essentially an unknown quantity) for the “rental” aspect of the trade right now. Then we have to hope he bucks historical trends of similar aged players and not start to decline over the remainder of his contract.

  60. greg as gm. sorry.

    doodie, yea i agree on richards just because he was brought in with expectations of not just being 1st line center, but helping the pp too. also, he had the whole sideshow attraction leading up to his signing.

  61. people on this site compare apples to oranges all day long

    2 examples.. what the devils gave up for kovalchuk versus what the CBJ supposively want. Bad comparison. Kovalchuk was a impending FA, he could have walked. Nash is under contract for i think 4 more years.
    the second comparison is the brad richards overpay so why not overpay for Nash. Einsteins they already overpaid for Richards and that affects anything that happens after. Is Nash a better player then RIchards? I definitely think so. They gave up only $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ for RIchards, a big difference.

    Parise would be a better signing for 1 obvious reason they only give up $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

    Understand????

  62. “gabby was ahuge question mark, even moreso than richards. dnt know why anybody thinks it wasnt”

    How? Injuries are injuries, if its serious, the guy isn’t counting against your cap in season anyway. So Gaborik’s groin or Richards’ head, it doesn’t matter; not playing with a huge contract is preferable to underperforming (see: Gomez, Scott) a huge contract. The far bigger worry on a major deal is the talent and production not equaling the money. Healthy, Gaborik is every bit a $7.5MM player. Healthy, is Richards a $6.7MM player? For 9 years? Gaborik’s deal ends when he’s like a year older than Richards is right now. To assign more risk to Gabby’s 5 years at 27 than Richards’ 9 years at 31 seems insane to me.

  63. but as far as actual production, yea richards wont produce as many goals as gaborik. assist are great, but his highest goal total was 28?? last year. gotta at least equal that to be worth his contract. plus getting his usual 40-50 assists. more responsibility on him than gaborik too. he is also older than gabby its gonna turn out like drury. watch. 2 years from now he’ll b geting 15-20 goals and 30 asists. 50 point guy. tops.

  64. Stuart: Right with you. It seems like the NHL hasn’t caught up to other sports in understanding the double-payment penalty. Johan Santana was the best pitcher in baseball and any deal was contingent on him signing an extension. Every team in the bidding was holding back their best young players and top prospect because it was Minnesota who was stuck, not the buyers. Same with Columbus here. They can lose with Nash and give him $1MM every month or they can convert him into more and cheaper players. There is just as much, or more, of an onus on them to make a move as there is for a contender to double-pay for Nash’s services.

  65. Richards is Gomez, except he was older at the time he signed and we haven’t seen the crash yet. Assist heavy, non-elite player in a soft UFA market.

  66. ohh jesus i almost had a heart attack. i saw up at the top from andrew gross” rangers confirm…. lundqvist in net”. i thought it said lundqvist is out.

  67. Doodie Machetto on

    Grabby, I’m with you on Richards. I have been against his signing since day 1. They should’ve gone after Kovalchuk the year before. I think Torts could’ve controlled him.

    Mister D, while it’s true that you can spend into LTIR when a guy is out for a long period of time in season, the problem is there isn’t really anyone to spend the money on. For instance, Staal was out the first half of the year and Wolski was out for a while too. That gave us 8 million bucks to spend in LTIR, if we wanted it. But who are you going to sign in-season?

  68. gabby’s deal was a gamble because of the significant injury history he had. richards deal was in a more competitive market for talent and of course will have a lesser ROI(return on investment) because the term is to long and price way to high.

    SO the Gabby signing will turn out to be a good ROI, that happens in these big contracts very infrequently.

    since the Richards deal will be a long term albatross around the Rangers making another mistake on Nash would just accelerate the problem. Therefore the contract after the bad contract if a mistake is made hurts even more.If Nash was a free agent I may sign him to this deal but that would not be a slam dunk decision add the pieces CBJ want to trade him and it is a HORRIBLE move for the Rangers.

    this team is in real good position to compete as is this year and for years to come unless they have significant key player injuries. kreider and erixon should be contributors on the big club next year and maybe more youngsters why break this up now? This is the low water mark of the team for the next 4 years……

  69. Richards will retire or be Whaled before he reaches the end of this contract. It is so front-loaded, his actual cost to the Rangers will make it easy to send him to Conn. Not to mention that the Rangers might be thinking a new CBA will give them some outs. Gabby, Nash and Lundqvist will be the only guys that play to the end of their current contracts.

  70. Doodie Machetto on

    Mister D, they don’t have to trade Nash if they don’t want to before the deadline because they can still trade him at the draft (when more teams will be in on the bidding) or just even wait until next year to trade him. In fact, it might make sense that they move Carter first to clarify what they need to get out of the Nash deal.

    For instance, two rumors I’ve heard involving Carter were Dallas and DC. Dallas, as part of its package, would give up Jack Campbell. Washington, as part of its package, would move Neuvirth. If they make either of those deals, then they aren’t as pressed to get a goaltender in the Nash deal.

  71. Good morning!

    Carp is right. Nash gives us a great 1st line, a more formidable power play, a big body with skill to stick pucks in from close in, makes the 2nd line more formidable. Parise is not coming to us, and how many great free agents will become available in the next few years due to teams locking up their young talent? Probably not many. Depends on what we give up off the NHL roster, but if we could get away with Dubinsky headlining the package with a couple draft picks and a prospect or two, then you’ve gotta pull the trigger.

  72. Doodie Machetto on

    “It is so front-loaded, his actual cost to the Rangers will make it easy to send him to Conn. ”

    Except he has a full NMC for the life of his contract, so moving him to CT will be impossible.

  73. From a personal perspective, I would rather have Parise. However, for those that think it will just be money with him… his contract will be worse. As much if not more money than Nash, and it will still be on the books long after Nash’s expires. The Parise contract would end up looking like the Richards contract by the end.

  74. richards was older then gomez by i think 3 or 4 years when they signed him but he also is a better player. yes they are both assist first guys but overall Richards is and has been a better player the nGomez. Just because the rangers have made mistakes in the past does not give them an excuse to continue to make the same mistake.

    lundqvist and gabby are high paid players worth or near worth the investment. richards will not be in 2 years or less or some would argue he is not worth the investment in year 1, doing the same with Nash is financial suicide. This would be irrelevant if there was no salary cap, obviously with the cap that is a problem.

    bryzgalav at 8 more years, that can destroy the flyers, you need to be very judicious in these moves. Kovalchuk is a better player then nash and having a good year and I say his ccontract is horrible and he is not close to worth the investment……….

    thse high prices deals almost never get a good ROI>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

  75. just think, if only dubinsky brought last years production with him we wouldnt even be talking about nash. it seems like we cant get all the guys going in the same year together. thank gretzky that gabby and cally are holdin it down. boyle too. just give these guys 1 year deals. as soon as they get comfy, its all downhill.

  76. Richards’ actual salary in the last 3 years of the deal is only $1M. I have a feeling that was done on purpose.

  77. The only problem with waiting to sign Parise as an UFA is that he may never get to that point. Odds are the Devils will deal him before the draft if they have no shot at re-signing him. The Devils would get what they could for a player who is walking and the other team gains an extra week or so of time to sign Parise – much like the Flyers did with Scott Hartnell and Chris Pronger.

  78. And I wouldn’t part Nash and Gaborik on the same line. They’re both finishers and need the puck more than their linemates.

    Outside of one year, Nash has also never been a big PP scorer. Who does he displace on the 1st unit PP? Callahan, who has more PPG than him. Or Gaborik who also has more PPG and is a better passer.

  79. call me delusional between kreider, jt miller, dubi, aa, stepan and others the ywill find a 1st line forward that Nash could be at 1/3 the cost and not giving up any talent.

    trade for gaustad now for a 2nd round pick. He is the 3rd or 4th line center. he can take important faceoffs, possible stand in front of the net on the PP, kill penalties and he is a grinder.

    adding Nash will help slightly more then Gaustad but cost in the short and long term a ton more. Do not mortgage the future, the plan is working. This team has 81 points and AA and Dubi have done zilch.. Stepan is 21… Boyle has 5 goals….Stay the course build within. This is a likeable, hardworking, tough team. With skill. The young guys play in all situations. WHy break it up for a bad contract and a guy who is very talented but there is no guarantee he is going to be a 40 goal guy. If he is a 30 goal guy the deal is a disaster. He would need to be a top 5 elite forward..

  80. Richards could retire with 3 years left on his deal, and the Rangers could just cut him a check under the table for $3 million, or sign him to a personal service contract for $3 million. Or he could just pass up the measly $3 million. Plenty of other athletes have retired and left a lot more dollars on the table to help the team. Naslund, an all around class act, retired to help us out.

  81. gaustad could replace mitchell but not boyle, prust or feds. dont think we need that. we need more scoring. our two bottom lines are great. no need for morebottom 6 players

  82. but where are they going to get a first-line winger, stuart. I’m not saying they should make the trade at all costs, but they feel they need this type of player. And I don’t disagree.

  83. It is Grabby, but there’s a reason why a lot of the mega deals see rapid drops in actual salary at the tail end. Either for buy out purposes or make sure the players aren’t leaving too much money on the table when they retire. What can Richards do with $60M that he can’t with $57M?

  84. Doodie Machetto on

    BTW, Richards can’t be bought out at any point because of those last three years at only $1 million each ensure a TREMENDOUS buyout cap hit for those years. In some scenarios (such as if he were bought out at any time prior to 2016), the cap hit would be even larger than it would be had he still been on the roster. In 2016, it finally comes down to 6.5 million for those three years. But it will never be less than 6 million, so we would save a lousy 667k. It doesn’t matter how much he declines, he will still be worth at least a 667k player.

  85. I wouldn’t say Artie has done zilch. He just didn’t make any great strides from last year. He’s basically on the same pace as he was last year. Dubi has been disappointing too but he went back to being a 40 point player rather than maintaining or improving on his 50 point season from last year.

  86. Doodie Machetto on

    “Richards could retire with 3 years left on his deal, and the Rangers could just cut him a check under the table for $3 million, or sign him to a personal service contract for $3 million. Or he could just pass up the measly $3 million. Plenty of other athletes have retired and left a lot more dollars on the table to help the team. Naslund, an all around class act, retired to help us out.”

    First of all, they can’t cut him a check under the table because that’s cap circumvention. Second, Naslund retired because they were going to send him to the minors if he didn’t, so he chose to go back to Sweden. Third, Richards might want to pass on the 3 million, but that’s when he turns 37. What about ages 34-36? Drury was totally washed up at 33. Naslund was toast at 35. And these guys have played far less NHL games than Richards.

  87. Doodie Machetto

    I highly doubt the Rangers were going to send Naslund to the minors. Its not like he was a bad player or anything…

  88. “Mister D, they don’t have to trade Nash if they don’t want to before the deadline because they can still trade him at the draft (when more teams will be in on the bidding) or just even wait until next year to trade him. In fact, it might make sense that they move Carter first to clarify what they need to get out of the Nash deal.”

    Sure, they can wait on Nash, but there’s a dollar cost to waiting which I have to imagine is real to a team like Columbus. (I could be very wrong on that, but a top 10 payroll with 27th place attendance doesn’t look very P&L healthy.) You’re right that moving Carter is preferable but his value is down so the return is going to be less. And they’ve proven with or without Nash, the team sucks, so playing out 2012-13 and forward with Nash shouldn’t be viewed as much of an option, he should be traded either now or in the offseason. While more teams would be in the bidding in the offseason, you also run the risk of competition from both UFAs and possibly some better and cheaper options like Ryan also hitting the market. (Or, less likely, more potential buyers starting to understand the economics of a guy like Nash.)

    All of this is just a long way of saying “Columbus should be viewed as having disincentive to holding onto the 5th highest cap hit in sports”. Its a partial salary dump that isn’t being framed as such at all.

  89. Signing him to a personal services contract for $3 million is legal. Other athletes have retired with no such threat of demotion. We’ll just have to deal with ages 34-36. Nothing the Rangers can do about it. Just hope for the best for those years, nobody will be taking his cap hit and dollars off our hands.

  90. well, now doode says the buyout will have a huge penalty attached. so if we do buy him out, its in what? year 8?? lmao!

  91. Drury did score a goal against the Panthers in his first Rangers game and the crowd was chanting We Want the Cup! LOL

  92. salty, drury was fine his first season here. playing 2nd line minutes, he had 25g 58 points? for his career that was about wht he usually got. besides that prior season. but enough, now im getting dpresed talkin about capn clucth again.

  93. Doodie Machetto on

    “I highly doubt the Rangers were going to send Naslund to the minors. Its not like he was a bad player or anything…”

    No, you’re right. They were going to buy him out and he chose to retire instead. Which is unlike Drury, who chose the buyout before retiring. Can’t say I blame Drury or would have blamed Naslund if he had done what Drury did.

  94. If we don’t make a move for Nash, I wonder if the Rangers or Caps would have any interest in a Mike Knuble for Wojtek Wolski swap. Both are having bad years but Knuble fits our system better and Wolski theirs.

    Maybe Knuble helps bring some offense to the 3rd/4th line and while I’m sure he’s slot a step or three, he can’t be any worse offensively than Rupp or Bickel…

  95. Clock explainations: http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/content/blogs/puck-rakers/2012/02/clock-talk.html

    Still doesn’t explain a) what happened in Los Angeles and 2) how the Rangers could have scored in Phoenix with 0.1 remaining on the “TV clock.” I like Carp’s explaination in the game review post. A league where teams are allowed to choose between a 5 on 3 and 5 on 4 and a cross check to the head is worth one game could not possibly have an “official” video feed provided to networks and the in-arena crowd.

  96. Carp, its probably just semantics, but how can a team 9 points up on 2nd place *need* anything? We’re 3/4 done with the season, they’ve proven they’re not a fluke and the +/- is stellar regardless of how its arrived at. Goals for, goals against, who cares. Not worth a major alteration to what’s working.

  97. Same goes for Gomez that year too Grabby. His first year he put 70 points, up to that point in his career he was on average a 67 pts per year player. Neither of them deserved their contracts in the first place though.

  98. Aaron Portzline, beat writer for the Blue Jackets said in a article today that Howson said that there waiting for the right offer for Rick Nash. Howson is going to be waiting for a long time for what his asking price.

  99. Just because a team is up 9 points 3/4 through the season doesnt mean the team cant be improved.

  100. It would benefit from an upgrade. It doesn’t *need* an upgrade, atleast not one that comes with some major future downside.

  101. Tiki, there’s an ocean between me saying they cannot be improved and me saying they shouldn’t make a move of Nash’s cost magnitude.

  102. And wouldn’t you know it, Rick Nash is a player that puts up 66 points per 82 games throughout his career and may switch teams prior to the season where he’ll turn 28 as well.

  103. yea gomez had like 56 asists or somehwerearound that. only had 15 or 16 goals though. and neither of them could play with jagr. its eerily similar to, ohh forget it

  104. Doodie Machetto on

    Mister D, if they are looking to dump salary, it will be Carter. They can’t sell it to their fanbase that they traded the face of their franchise for anything less than a complete reboot package.

    And while attendance is down this year, when they have a decent product on the ice, they are actually a decent draw, so it’s not like this is a team that perpetually operates at a loss. In the first two years out of the lockout they had better attendance than Boston. Until 07-08, they had over 90% attendance for every year of their existence. Put a decent product on the ice and the fans will go.

    So while you are thinking in terms of Nash’s contract dollars affecting their bottom line, they are thinking long-term in terms of how their fan base will react to basically hitting the reset button on the franchise if they trade Nash. They are better off trying to fix the team with Nash and jettisoning other players for pennies on the dollar (Carter, Mason, Umberger, Tyutin) than just trading him for whatever they can get. They have an asking price that I think they will be pretty firm on.

  105. Wicky©Proud owner of the world's most persistent cold on

    It really doesn’t seem to me that adding a player or even two via trade/trades means you are no longer building from within.

    Just curious here, but who’s spot does gaustad take? And if we add parise via free agency, does he take kreider’s mythological spot?

    I still think you have to move a roster player or two one way or another to make room for a young player or two (think kreider and mcilrath) or for a free agent pick up (we’ll say parise just for kicks).

    So why not trade one or two for nash if he is going to basically cost the same as parise would via free agency and the trade allows you to create some cap space as well and wrap it all up in one neat little deal?

  106. Doodie Machetto on

    CTB, except Nash is a player that routinely scores 30+ goals. Gomez did that once, and it was also the only time he broke 20.

  107. Boom Boom Bathgate on

    Just because a team is up nine points 3/4 through the season doesn’t mean it cannot be decimated by an ill-advised trade or two.

  108. mister d- u thinking long term. this year they would need a nash to beat the top teams in the west i truly believe.. but if they wait, get playoff experience past 1 round, or 2, yes, most likely we can get there if kreider turns out to be as good as expected. were just saying, this season, with hank playing so good, and gabby, everyone else healthy now, it is very tempting to go after nash.

  109. Wicky©Proud owner of the world's most persistent cold on

    Brich has been clutch this season, that is a definite!

    WW for penner straight up….Get er done Glen!!

  110. “Mister D, if they are looking to dump salary, it will be Carter.”

    Howson salary dumping Carter, if that’s even possible at this point, is the transactional equivalent of cleaning out his own desk. “I was able to turn Voracek and a high 1st into nothing in only 8 months!” On the other hand, appearing to pick up a huge win in a Nash trade might be his only shot at balancing his major trade ledger and gaining a reprieve. Only thing missing there is finding that other GM willing to save him …

  111. and nobody knows if getting him or not will be a mistake until later on down the road. just doesnt seem like a great idea from past experiences. one more wrong move from sather and all these years of being patient are wasted. so, just like dan shea said, if the return is too high, sather wont go for it.

  112. the reason why the Rangers need Nash is because right now the Rangers are winning the games because they are outworking and grinding the opposition plus getting superb goaltending.

    Once the playoffs come around all those other teams will up their effort level, block more shots and play much more conservative whereas the Rangers will essentially play the same exact game as they are now. The Rangers can’t really try any harder than they are now…

  113. Grabby: Absolutely thinking long term. Playing for this year at the cost of future years is always a lower percentage play, but doing so with the kind of young core we have could prove devastating.

  114. Doodie, but Nash isn’t likely to hit 30 this year and there’s a lot of history of players like him (started in the league early, hit some big years in their early and mid 20s and then saw their production wane even as early as 28/29) to suggest that he’ll be even more overpaid going forward than he currently is now.

  115. carp… they are not getting a 1st line forward this year. they think kreider is going to be that guy…he can start on the 3rd line next year or even after the NCAA season ends this year and go from there. I agree they need more high end talent but trading 4 or 5 pieces is not the answer..

    if they were giving up a 1st round pick ,dubi, thomas,jt miller, and erixon isn’t that a ton for a very good player with a bad contract? dubi is a legit 3rd liner and good all around player who has 20 + goal ability, miller is going to be a good pro, erixon would play on there blueline today and he is 21 and will get stronger, thomas is a ? and a 1st rounder. that is a haul.

    the ranges would keep Kreider their nugget, mcilrath, and ll there good NHL d men…

    I think that list of talent is more then fair and again the Nash contract is a bad contract that eliminates any big moves for 2 years…….

  116. Doodie – Average attendance is actually up in Columbus this year. #checkyafacts

    At least we can fall back on the Bruins having a horrible power play last season, especially in the series against the Canadiens, and winning the Cup.

  117. Doodie Machetto on

    Nash, to me, is all about the return. What are we giving up.

    Here are the names I’ve seen thrown about by the media as potential parts in the trade: Dubinsky, Anisimov, McDonagh, Del Zotto, Kreider, Erixon, and Miller, plus picks. As far as the roster players go, McDonagh and Del Zotto are deal-breakers for me. Dubi I have no problem moving. In fact, moving him will be necessary just to make the deal work under the cap for next year. Anisimov makes me hesitate a little, but only for this year. I like his two-way play, but as an offensive player I think he can be easily replaced in the future.

    As for our prospects, I’m not as high on Kreider as everyone else, so I wouldn’t mind giving him up, but I wouldn’t give him AND another of our top prospects up as well. If they wanted Erixon, I don’t mind it, since we are set on the left side of our defense (Staal, McD, MDZ) and we basically stole him for 2 second round picks last summer. I also don’t mind losing Miller, at all. I don’t think much of him as a prospect and was upset when they drafted him over a few of the guys that were still available.

  118. yea definitely mister. if we didnt have hank playing his best hockey in his career, and if we weret so good this fast, i know theres no way we would go for nash. after that dumbasses comments about a cup though, who knows what kinds of ideas he put in slats head

  119. Boom Boom Bathgate on

    Top-line skill for this team is goes deeply within the system and is being delivered, one dramatic new piece for a near-term championship puzzle at at time. Hagelin is here, Step is here, McD, MDZ, AA, are all here, and young vets Staal, and Sauer and Cally and Girardi came through the system, with Kreider and Thomas, and some really good lower echelon gems like St. Croix (!) and Fasth and Miller, too, and McIrath coming in to be the ultimate physical presence, in a couple years.

    All the panic around here to take two steps forward at the cost of about 10 steps backward, soon enough, is NOT what I hope Slats is thinking and planning on EXECUTING, which is a great operative word, if he sells the organization and the fans up the river, in the next few days or even hours.

    All this team needs now is PATIENCE, it has the players in spades, now. This is just the beginning of a great ride unless some bonehead, one-shot, desperation moves are made to gum it all up.

    Look, we are better than most if not all the competition now – let’s not be competition to ourselves. Let’s not beat ourselves, when the other teams are having so much trouble beating us. DAMN! Why does this organization have such a masochistic compulsion to self-destruct???

  120. Doodie Machetto on

    Spider, it’s up this year from last year, which was their franchise worst, but down from their historical numbers. I’m sure a lot of that was driven by season ticket purchases made after spending on Carter and Wisniewski. I’d be interested in the actual attendance numbers.

  121. I would be very interested in seeing Kreider play for the Rangers in the last week of the season if they have everything locked up, at least in their conference. Of course, if BC makes the champsionship game, that’s not gonna happen.

  122. especialy dz since he is the only offensive d man we have. if he only had better shot. mcdonagh could still grow into a more ofensive guy. cant trade any d men imo.

  123. Wouldn’t you then say that they shouldn’t trade Carter either, then? He probably made a bigger impact on the purchases than Wisniewski. Good luck getting any team to release actual attendance numbers if they only publish paid attendance. We know how that goes with the Mets.

  124. Doodie Machetto on

    ” or even after the NCAA season ends this year and go from there”

    Forget that. Aside from the fact that he very clearly wants to graduate before turning pro (although he has tried taking more courses to accelerate the process), the Rangers aren’t going to start the clock on his entry-level contract because he MIGHT be helpful in the playoffs.

  125. Wicky©Proud owner of the world's most persistent cold on

    grabby
    yes, he wouldn’t be a bad guy to have, big and plays with an edge and can put a few in the net.

    In all honesty folks, with some of the “deals” that you are throwing out that we may be giving up to get Nash, Howson would have jumped all over them if sather was offering them.

    Reality is, slats is probably offering a dubi/bjork/1st rounder/plus ….one other part perhaps and that is probably where it stops unless they sweeten it somehow on their end…just my opinion here!

  126. We can fit Nash next year without moving Dubinsky, Doodie. Not that it matters, as he seems like a given to be in any version of a Nash trade, but the money is there.

    The flipside of being ok with moving 2 or 3 prospects: What if we don’t win? Especially recognizing that the favorite to win any title in any professional sport is like 20% at best? Good young players allow you to overpay for proven veterans. Moving Kreider/Erixon/Miller/whoever means we’re only doing half that, we’re overpaying for the top of our roster without having those cheap top 9 forwards and top 4 defensemen to offset. That’s where teams get in trouble and that’s where we’re headed if the cost is anything like what’s been rumored.

    (I will say this: I’ve been 100% anti-Nash, half because of the prospects and half because it kills future flexibility. If the asking price that’s been publicly stated is completely overblown and NHL GMs are looking at this as part salary dump, I’d soften my stance. Wolski for some salary balance, plus non-Kreider prospects, I’d be fine. Guarantee him over the risk of not getting Parise. Its when we offer to double pay that I’m grossed out. Nash, a UFA asking for $7.8MM is a decent signing, but he’s not a no brainer. Moving assets for the right to give that deal is a no brainer the other way.)

  127. yeah, with Caps, looks like a bad move carcillo-canning Boudreau. But this couldn’t happen to a nicer guy than Dale Hunter, the piece of clarke. They sure looked like they quit last night, especially the captain.

  128. Doodie Machetto on

    Spider, no, because the people who bought in just because of Carter are all out already. Trading Nash alienates the people who are still going to the games, unless you get something that everyone can see will be a very promising future.

    I think Carter gets moved before Nash. I really do.

  129. Here are a few things in this whole trade deadline discussion, what I glanced at above:

    1) NYR are first in the division and the conference. Top 3 in the league right now. Do we really have to scramble to do a deal esp in a year when we were not even picked as a top 4 in the conference? So we need to be selective. They need to avoid giving up key youth pieces.

    2) We need another scoring threat. That is for sure. I think a guy like Hagelin disappears in the tighter checking playoffs. But at what cost for that scorer? Rick Nash looks interesting but not if we have to give up too much. Sather has shown restraint and to some extent that has helped us get to where we are currently. I’d hate to see us regress.

    3) For all the haters out there saying B Richards is not worth what we paid. I have a few words for all these dolts: Scott Gomez, Chris Drury, Wade Redden….I could go on. But you get my point. We picked up B Richards and our team is playing the best it has in 15 years. Now I won’t say that Brad Richards is the cause of all of this. But how many GWGs does he have? Again, B Richards is not the reason we are playing like we are. But he is a MAJOR contributor on the ice and off the ice. If the Rangers were on the cusp of the playoffs right now, I’d sing a much different tune on Richards. But guys give me a break. Our PP is somewhat better, our overall team play is world’s better, and guys seem to respect B Richards. The proof will be in the playoffs clearly. But I am happy to have B Richards’ experience and clearly the team works very well with him wearing the “A.”

    4) Team chemistry is important and I think the Rangers are collectively playing better than 20 guys wearing the same sweater. You bring another big dog, who doesn’t play much D, and who’s a career -75, I think you risk upsetting the apple cart. I know a handful of guys here think +/- is a joke of a stat. I am not going to debate the fine details but say just one thing: If you are on the ice over your career for 75 more goals against than for, I think that says something. I think the price of Nash is too steep right now. Patience is best. If the deal doesn’t happen, it wasn’t meant to be.

    5) In case anyone cares, Orpik out tonight. We need to pound the Pens.

  130. Doodie – I don’t think signing Kreider for the end of the season would affect his entry-level/free agent status. Most of the time when you hear players “signing” at the end of the AHL season it’s on a try-out contract. I’m not sure if that would be the same for a player in the NHL. But I would not want him playing in meaningful games in the NHL this season anyway.

  131. Wicky©Proud owner of the world's most persistent cold on

    Manny
    perhaps you should consult a physician about that condition.

    Have you been to chicago, san jose, philadelphia, or phoenix lately?

    Have you worn anything with the number “97” on it recently?

    Do you have a mullet?

    Have you karaoke’d badly recently?

    If you have any of these symptoms, please consult a physician immediately!!!!

  132. LA giving up Jack Johnson wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing for them long term. And how much longer are they going to keep Bernier sitting on the bench? It’s like Corey Schneider in Vancouver, he has more value to them in a trade than he does not playing for them on the team. Although people would argue that Schneider could have big time value for the Nucks in the playoffs if Luongo Carcillo’s the bed again.

  133. Doodie Machetto on

    “We can fit Nash next year without moving Dubinsky, Doodie. Not that it matters, as he seems like a given to be in any version of a Nash trade, but the money is there.”

    Only if you sign guys to a very specific amount on their next contracts, plus, you’ll have 0 room under the cap to make call ups from CT/add Kreider or any other prospects to the pro roster.

  134. Doodie Machetto on

    “Doodie – I don’t think signing Kreider for the end of the season would affect his entry-level/free agent status. ”

    Gotta be an entry-level deal. Playing at all for the big club counts as one year towards the expiration of that deal.

  135. Wicky©Proud owner of the world's most persistent cold on

    there is also the little part of the nash saga which is nash and his “5 team list”. If the jackets really want to move him and only one of the 5 teams is willing to play ball, he could be had for less than they had hoped…

    I think the Kings are likely destination if they are on “the list”

  136. LGRs

    Carp you really wouldn’t include Kreider in the Nash trade it it involved Dunbinsky? (+ a first rounder most likely)

    Kreider is not untouchable and to have a “sure thing” like Nash through 2018 (even with his contract) would be worth it if we can re-sign the must-signs like Del Z, McDonaugh, Stepan, Girardi, Cally.

    I really think the reason Kreider looks so good right now is because the draft prospects have been weak, or not near NHL-ready, compared to recent years. I’d love to see him in Ranger blue but if they can swap out Dubinsky, then Kredier + 1st rounder looks like a fair deal.

  137. If you are on the ice over your career for 75 more goals against than for, I think that says something.

    ………..

    Yeah? What if you’ve played 20 minutes a night on a VERY BAD team your whole career?

    What if you’re a minus 72 over your career? What if your name is Brad Richards and you have a Stanley Cup and a Conn Smythe?

  138. noonan, what happens if kreider becomes a 20 year old better or equal version of nash in colomus which is just as likely to happen than not. nash isnt a sure thing to become a 35-45 goal scorer again either, let alone win us a cup. but nobody knows until/unless it happen. point is, it seemsto be going against everything this organization has been creating the past 5 seasons.

  139. Doodie Machetto on

    Newman,

    Your point #3… everything you said has nothing to do with Richards. It’s Torts’ system and the players who have bought into it and try their hearts out. And it’s also Henrik Lundqvist having one of the absolute best seasons I have ever witnessed a goaltender have. Also, your points about leadership, respect, and GWGs are all the same things that people used to say about Drury in his first year.

    And finally, our PP is only marginally better than it was in 2008-2009, which was the worst it was in the past 40 years (and that’s only because I stopped looking after I hit 1969-70). I wouldn’t be surprised if 2008-2009 was the worst it’s ever been. Therefore, our PP right now has a strong chance of finishing the season at the lowest percentage in Rangers history. This has all been just a long way to say that our PP has not been fixed by adding Richards.

  140. This does not even seem to be a problem of a cap issue for the Rangers. If they trade Dubinsky, next year is covered by Wolski and he coming off of the books. Drury is half as much next year and totally gone the year after that. For 2014, Gaborik’s contract expires, and they could choose to let him walk if the space is needed for Lundqvist, Girardi, Callahan, and anyone else’s contract who ends up expiring that year (whose current contracts expire in 2012 or 2013).

  141. i see everyones pov in this discussion. i think dan said it best in that sather will most likely not overpay for him. hope not anyway.

  142. Doodie Machetto on

    “If you are on the ice over your career for 75 more goals against than for, I think that says something.”

    What if you score 500 PP goals and 0 even strength goals, but are on the ice for just 75 even strength goals against? God I hate plus/minus.

  143. Doodie Machetto on

    Ron Francis is a career -10. He’s 4th all-time in NHL scoring.

    Joe Sakic is only a +30. On all of those amazing teams.

    Mark Recchi is even.

    Dale Hawerchuk (#18 all time scoring) is a -92.

    Brian Bellows (485 g, 1022p) is a -125.

    Defensive stalwart Jaromir Jagr is +281, good for 27th all time (among those who had stat counted).

    Wade Redden is +162, good for 83rd all-time, just ahead of Zdeno Chara, at +134, good for 108, and just +1 better than Marek Malik.

    So please, pretty please, can we stop looking at plus/minus?

  144. “noonan, what happens if kreider becomes a 20 year old better or equal version of nash in colomus which is just as likely to happen than not. nash isnt a sure thing to become a 35-45 goal scorer again either, let alone win us a cup. but nobody knows until/unless it happen. point is, it seemsto be going against everything this organization has been creating the past 5 seasons.”

    I think it’s unlikely Kreider becomes better than Nash–not a knock on Kreider, just a fact. And if Kreider does one day exceed Nash in expectations, so what? The Rangers have a chance to win the Cup with this team now.

    Nash is 27 and with a center on a good team he most certainly will score 40+ again. He’s also a grinder and can throw his body around. Closest thing we’d have to a power forward.

    Did you suddenly forget which team Nash has been playing for his entire career?

    When Kreider puts up 35-40 (which he could), look me up. Because it’s not happening anytime soon.

  145. “Only if you sign guys to a very specific amount on their next contracts, plus, you’ll have 0 room under the cap to make call ups from CT/add Kreider or any other prospects to the pro roster.”

    Not really. Even if you double Prust and MDZ, carry Biron at $1MM, Mitchell and Bickel at $750K each and add Nash, you’ve got a full 20 man (Fedo, Eminger, Stralman out) with $2.3MM leftover for Erixon and/or Kreider callups.

  146. “This does not even seem to be a problem of a cap issue for the Rangers. If they trade Dubinsky, next year is covered by Wolski and he coming off of the books.”

    Exactly. Down the line cap space could become problematic re-signing everyone we want to stay, but if $ becomes an issue a trade for a high pick(s) could be viable.

  147. Let me ask this another way: Which team, and by how wide a difference, has the better chance of winning a Cup …

    Team A: Current Rangers with an upgrade from Dubinsky to Nash

    Team B: Current Rangers plus Parise, Kreider, Erixon

    Because the chance at Team B is a tangible opportunity cost of acquiring Nash. It requires (gasp) patience, but its a real possibility.

  148. FChamps: Being a pretend capologist is probably the most accurate thing a fan can do. The numbers are the numbers no matter who’s looking at them.

  149. I understand that Dubi would have to be included in a deal for Nash, but he can’t be the centerpiece of the deal. There must be a “better” player from the current roster going as well…I’d bet Columbus wants at least 3 current roster players

  150. Tiki XLII XLVI on

    I wanna be forever young!!!!! Youth is like diamonds in the sun and diamonds are forever!!!!!!

  151. Doodie Machetto on

    Mister D, if you think that MDZ and Biron won’t get bigger raises than that, you are mistaken.

    Further, I think they bring Stralman back. He’s played a lot of minutes and handled them well.

    Add in those larger raises plus Stralman and there goes that 2.3 (which still seems a little high mathematically, even in your hypothetical. probably closer to 2.1).

  152. nash is not a automatic 40 goal scorer. I do not think he is as much a difference maker as kovalchuk as an example.

    you act like Nash is HOF bound, and he is not . he is a very skilled fast skating big guy. the jury is out on how good he is and if he can play big when it counts. really is he a top 6 forward in the nhl?

    would you rather have stamkos, datsyuk, malkin, toews, crosby, ovechkin, kovalchuk, parise, and others over Nash? To me the answer is yes, salary aside so why gut the system and pay $7.8 mill per year for a very good but not great player????????

    He is not Malkin no chance………

  153. why give Biron a raise? If he does not like the Range roffer let him walk. Why give a raise to a 35 year old backup? Even if he has played well he should not get a raise… Wit hall these raised do players get pay cuts when they do not produce or get older etc.?

  154. Mister D – Obviously Team B, but first of all, that’s not possible because two players would have to leave the roster for that, and who knows what the situation will be next year with who is playing well and who is playing with injuries or not playing because of them.

  155. Doodie Machetto on

    Mister D, team B can’t exist. You need to make everyone on team A a year older, plus find a way to shed some salary to afford Parise, who will make even more money than Nash.

    Furthermore, Parise won’t be a Ranger. If he wants money, LA will have 14.5 million in cap space this summer. If he wants location, he will choose Detroit or Minnesota.

  156. Doodie Machetto on

    stuart, because there aren’t 60 NHL caliber goaltenders in the NHL and if something were to ever happen to Lundqvist, we might as well pack it in if we don’t have one of the capable backups. Biron could be a starter on about 8 teams in the league. Can’t say that for whomever we get as our backup next year.

    And when players don’t play well, they don’t get pay cuts, they just get cut, as in not resigned.

    We offered Gilroy a paycut and he chose to sign elsewhere.

  157. Izzy Mandlebaum on

    “Let me ask this another way: Which team, and by how wide a difference, has the better chance of winning a Cup …

    Team A: Current Rangers with an upgrade from Dubinsky to Nash

    Team B: Current Rangers plus Parise, Kreider, Erixon”

    For 2012? Team A has a pretty good chance, Team B has zero chance. Which way it goes depends on how much patience Sather has, not Ranger Fans.

  158. I know we like to fall in love with our young talent/prospects… So let’s love them even more..

    >

  159. “Mister D, team B can’t exist. You need to make everyone on team A a year older, plus find a way to shed some salary to afford Parise, who will make even more money than Nash.”

    Unless you think Parise is going to match Ovechkin for top cap hit, that’s just not true.

  160. man, I can’t wait for the trade dead line to be over. All this Nash talk and trade scenarios are giving me a migraine.

  161. mister d — actually, fans have no clue what the future holds. they don’t even know what the cap will look like next season. they don’t have any idea what the freaking team will look like. then again, there are worse things going on. like …

    1 – having fans explain make the ridiculous argument that nash is an overrated non-superstar — soft, mushy and a defensive liability — who ONLY averages around 30 goals and wouldn’t make the lineup better. and, oh, don’t trade underpaid superstar dubinsky for him! You’ll ruin chemistry! We want avery!

    2– having fans explain how the rangers can’t take on the cap hit of a 30-goal scoring monster power forward who is 27 (who is as good as gaborik, but generally healthy) because it would just decimate the rangers organization for all eternity. We can build from within. Oh, and hey, let’s use the money to sign parise this summer!

    nash is a massive upgrade over dubinsky or anisimov – this year. A year they can win the cup. if sather can make the deal sans stepan, mcd, mdz, kreider and doesn’t, he’d be crazy.

  162. if lundqvist got hurt Biron would not keep this up not close. He is fine for 15 to 18 regular season games but saying he could start on 8 teams is not saying much.

    if Henrik got hurt the rangers would need to go in scramble mode and trade for a vet backup and pray. no team can lose a franchise goalie and thrive unless the team is loaded in all other areas. the rangers are built from goalie out so a enrik injury would be devastating…..

    Biron is paid fairly, the way he is being used keeps him from being exposed. he is 4 yers plus from bign astaring goalie of decent capabilities……….

  163. Food for thought:

    If you are the owner of the Columbus Blue Jackets, do you let Scott Howson (The GM who has done ziltch for your organization, except draft Nash 1st overall) trade Nash, the most important asset of the org?

    Shouldn’t a new GM decide which assets are needed in the return? Why should Howson make the trade? Is he honestly going to stick around as GM?

  164. From outside the garden(Blog). Some feedack on some of the prospects. The rangers have some talent on the way as you can read.

    Prospects are defined as those in the NHL who are still Calder-eligible (less than 25 GP in one season, less than six in any two seasons) or are not playing in the NHL currently.

    Notes gathered on the prospects are based on my observations and discussions with scouts and front-office executives.

    New York Rangers

    Despite having several top young players like Michael Del Zotto, Derek Stepan, Ryan McDonagh and Carl Hagelin in the NHL (the latter of whom would have been ranked third on this list) the Rangers still have a well-above-average system due to the addition this summer of elite defense prospect Tim Erixon, the progression of Chris Kreider and the breakout years of Michael St. Croix and Jesper Fasth. Mats Zuccarello still has a good shot to be a regular NHLer, and Jonathan Audy-Marchessault has been a great story this year in the AHL.

    1. Tim Erixon, D, Connecticut (AHL)

    I wrote about Erixon last month, stating he is the best defensive prospect not yet playing in the NHL. He’s a tremendous puck-mover and thinker who plays very well in both ends. He’s the kind of player who projects to shut down top opposing players, play a mistake-free game, show good puck movement out of his own end and end up being a great power-play unit option from the back end.

    2. Chris Kreider, LW, Boston College (Hockey East)

    Kreider has shown notable progression the last year or so at BC. His hockey sense (which was once very worrisome) has shown great development, which — when combined with a high-end combination of skating, physical game and finishing ability — is a big reason many NHL sources think he can be in the NHL right now. The big power-winger gets split opinions in the industry; some scouts see first-line potential and most see a good second-line forward — which is the direction I lean toward.

    3. Michael St. Croix, C, Edmonton (WHL)

    St. Croix is one of the WHL’s leading scorers this season, and despite being picked in the mid-rounds last year, he’s shown he’s for real. He came into last season with great expectations and as a likely first-rounder, but fell due to concerns about his skating and physical game, which was accentuated by the fact he’s a smaller player. However, as one NHL scout puts it, “He’s the player this year I thought he was going to be last year.” St. Croix is a brilliant playmaking forward with great upside and could have the potential to be a top-two line scorer in the NHL.

    4. J.T. Miller, C, Plymouth (OHL)

    Miller is a pretty well-rounded prospect without a notable weakness. He’s a gritty forward, but also shows very good hockey sense and playmaking ability. I don’t think he’s the kind of prospect who bleeds value, but he’s a low-risk player who can play center or wing and is very projectable to be an above-average offense forward with defensive value.

    5. Dylan McIlrath, D, Moose Jaw (WHL):

    McIlrath started the year getting away from his usual game by trying to get points, but lately he’s been a bone-crushing defenseman who scares the life out of opposing forwards every shift. When he was drafted McIlrath needed a fair amount of work, but his skating has improved by leaps and bounds and he’s showing more confidence with the puck. I don’t love him but McIlrath has what it takes to be a second-pairing defenseman. However, he will need a few years.

    Honorable mentions: RW Mats Zuccarello, RW Jesper Fasth, C Steven Fogarty.

  165. Izzy Mandlebaum on

    I’m saying for this year, you aren’t getting Parise. Next year the team will be different. Sather makes a lot of changes.

  166. “Mats Zuccarello still has a good shot to be a regular NHLer”

    LOL! Apparently, this guy doesn’t read RR comments!

  167. Izzy Mandlebaum on

    The Rangers haven’t had a serious run at the Cup since 1997. Sather is straining at the leash to go for it this year now that he has a decent shot at it.

    I bet he’s gonna trade…

  168. Wicky©Proud owner of the world's most persistent cold on

    salty
    not sold on him either, not totally against him, just not sold on him.

    Izzy
    Yep

  169. FChamps: No one knows what the future holds but this current roster is about as locked in as a team can be heading into 2012-13. Everyone of note is signed except for Prust. Obviously that doesn’t guarantee against trades or injuries or whatever, but from a short term projectability standpoint, this is the least variable you’ll ever see. So, while its a total rarity, you really can say “our roster plus this guy” and be 95% accurate. To your bullets …

    1. Its not binary here, Nash isn’t awesome or suck. I don’t think anyone is saying Nash isn’t good or great, but that doesn’t mean he’s worth the cost. Ehrhoff could be awesome on the point of our PP but would you take him for nothing but inheriting his contract? That’s the dissenter’s side, that Nash isn’t worth the double pay. Or …

    2. … probably better put, he’s not worth his contract *and* assets. Nash as a free agent at $7.8MM is fine, Nash as a discount player at the cost of 3-4 player assets is fine. Nash at $7.8MM over 6 years plus 3-4 assets is not. Pay once with the money (Parise as a UFA) or the prospects (under cost Ryan?) but not twice. We know Parise locks us up, but he’s tacked onto the current roster at the end of the year. Nash is a plus with minuses.

  170. I know we like to fall in love with our young talent/prospects… So let’s love them even more..

    At ESPN Insider, Corey Pronman lists five Ranger prospects that the Rangers could trade for Rick Nash.

    He lists Tim Erixon, Chris Kreider, Michael St. Croix, JT Miller and Dylan McIlrath.

    •On Erixon, who Pronman is a big fan of, he says that Erixon projects to be a shutdown defenseman who can play against the other team’s top players.
    •On Kreider, Pronman writes that he is looked at as a top six goal scorer with first line potential.
    •On St. Croix, he quotes a scout as saying, “He’s the player this year I thought he was going to be last year.” St. Croix is a brilliant playmaking forward with great upside and could have the potential to be a top-two line scorer in the NHL.
    •On JT Miller, Pronman says that he is a versatile player with no noticeable weaknesses.
    •On McIlrath, he says that after struggling to start the season, McIlrath has “been a bone-crushing defenseman who scares the life out of opposing forwards every shift.”
    It is believed that the Rangers would prefer to send prospects to Columbus over roster players in order to acquire Nash.

  171. Tiki XLII XLVI on

    That’s awesome Manny! Hey, have you been following tennis at all? Did u see Feds win his 1st title of 2012, and Djokovic in the Aussie Open?

  172. Wicky©Proud owner of the world's most persistent cold on

    manny
    yep. You don’t have any of the symptoms I listed earlier do you?

  173. None as of now, Wick. I had them at one point in life.

    Tiki – I have been keeping up with tennis. I am actually pulling for Djokovic to pull this off. I really like his attitude. It’s pretty funny.

  174. Boom Boom Bathgate - FOUR CUPS since 1926 on

    Stuart –

    Why would scouts and front office executives ever, even privately, express reservations re organizational prospects, some of whom the team will wind up trading, in the months and years ahead?

    I would say conversations like that would rank somewhere between P.R. and honesty, to be taken with a grain of skepticism.

  175. Stuart a: mentioned Jesper Fasth, a Rangers swedish prospect. If anyone listened to Francessa’s interview with Pierre mcGuire, he raved about this kid.

    Unfortunately he suffered a very bad leg fracture a couple of weeks ago. Hopefully he will recover.

  176. Boom Boom: Read the evaluations I posted by corey pronman. he works for ESPN and has no ties to the Ranger organization

  177. Tiki XLII XLVI on

    So am I Manny. I like how Djokovic has grown. He used to just retire from matches when he was losing, not anymore. I love his gyrations and his play to the crowd, and I think he’s super hot!

  178. the stuff I posted was from Corey Pronman also. Of course scouting reports take an advocacy perspective often. I have a good friend who knows many NFL big shots and GM’s. He sends me the draft board of a few teams before the draft. The variance is staggering. Yes Luck and a few other mega vluechips will be graded the same by most teams but after that the differences are head scratching.

    Same in hockey. I have been following the Rangers for a long time, I have been aware of prospects for maybe 10 years, the rangers pipeline/minors are the best they have been in many moons….

  179. “I have a good friend who knows many NFL big shots and GM’s. He sends me the draft board of a few teams before the draft. The variance is staggering.”

    That’s awesome.

  180. “Let me ask this another way: Which team, and by how wide a difference, has the better chance of winning a Cup …

    Team A: Current Rangers with an upgrade from Dubinsky to Nash

    Team B: Current Rangers plus Parise, Kreider, Erixon

    Because the chance at Team B is a tangible opportunity cost of acquiring Nash. It requires (gasp) patience, but its a real possibility.”

    LOL @ this way of thinking.

    We don’t even know what team B is, how healthy everyone will be (namely Lundqvist, Gaborik, Cally, Girardi, McDonagh, Stepan TO NAME A FEW), and how good or bad everyone will be playing.

    You don’t patiently wait for the perfect scenario to win a Cup. If they have a shot at it this year, and they do, then you go for it.

  181. Tiki XLII XLVI on

    stuart, that’s because every team has different needs. The first few rounds, they try to fill needs, the rest they take best available.

  182. “If they have a shot at it this year, and they do, then you go for it”

    So with the PP being our biggest problem, you’d be cool swapping Erixon for Ehrhoff, right?

  183. “So with the PP being our biggest problem, you’d be cool swapping Erixon for Ehrhoff, right?”

    Never said that. Are we now playing GM for a day? Is that the move you’d make?

  184. Starting to think the Nucks PP had as much to do with the Creepy Twins and Kesler as it did with Hasselhoff.

  185. “Never said that. Are we now playing GM for a day? Is that the move you’d make?”

    I’m trying to figure out the line between fills current need and screws up future seasons lies.

  186. “stuart, that’s because every team has different needs. The first few rounds, they try to fill needs, the rest they take best available.”

    He was talking about variance in draft grades, not sorting. Even the Packers would grade Luck out really high despite having no need for him.

  187. “Yev Kassem February 21st, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    Stuart a: mentioned Jesper Fasth, a Rangers swedish prospect. If anyone listened to Francessa’s interview with Pierre mcGuire, he raved about this kid.”

    Unfortunately he suffered a very bad leg fracture a couple of weeks ago. Hopefully he will recover.”

    Funny you bring that up because I happened to hear that interview on the radio while driving and for what it’s worth both Pierre Mcguire and Francessa said they wouldn’t trade for Nash. I don’t care about Francessa’s opinion as much as McGuire considering he is highly regarded in NHL circles. McGuire also said the rangers were loaded with prospects.

  188. Francesa does *not* know what hockey is. He only knows diet coke, knee surgery and being arrogant and mean to his fans.

  189. Tiki XLII XLVI on

    Oh Mister D. That’s because different organizations and scouting staffs see different things in different players.

  190. “Oh Mister D. That’s because different organizations and scouting staffs see different things in different players.”

    Really? I always figured everyone thought the exact same thing at all times. Thank you!

  191. take it easy guys, I said I don’t care about Francessa’s opinion in that post, he is a fat turd as far as I’m concerned.

  192. No this needs to become a Francessa pile on.

    Come on, there’s room to spare for everybody!!!

  193. Boom Boom Bathgate on

    Noonan –

    I couldn’t disagree with you more. Look, if the Rangers acquire Nash they have THIS YEAR to win a Cup. Period. So, what if they don’t win the Cup this year, and Detroit, Boston and Vancouver (my pick) are not going to just roll over because the Rangers went out and got Nash. The field of contention is DEEP this year, it’s not like the Rangers are the class of the field.

    Furthermore, if they don’t win the Cup this year (or even if they do) they are significantly weaker, stripped of depth, youth, quality production, and cap space, for years to come. Hey, we already brought in Richards and Gaborik. Even, already. The system is loaded, don’t decimate it for a one-shot at the Cup and all the other fall-out that goes with it.

    So we don’t win the Cup this year. Not good, but we could win it twice in the next five years. Don’t play it like a loser with no leverage, if there is one thing the Rangers can do right now it’s to bide their time – holding as many roster and system aces as they do. Be patient and let the Cup come to us, we don’t have to desperately chase it. Come on!

  194. Izzy Mandlebaum on

    Try and win one Cup before you plan to win two in five years. The Rangers will not be “stripped” by trading for Nash. They have a lot of good prospects and young players. Getting Nash will be like bundling a couple players, prospects and/or picks into a top six forward.

  195. Dastyuk had knee surgery, Vinny LeCav out indefinitely……Cats and Dogs living together! Mass Hysteria!

  196. Boom Boom Bathgate ,
    I totally agree. This isn’t 1994 when the core of that ranger team was getting old so they went for it and traded the farm and won the cup. If the rangers do that now and don’t win it this year, there depth in the organization will be stripped and head back to mediocrity.

  197. If that’s the trade that Detroit “lets” Yzerman have, he could have picked a better one. Detroit’s 1st rounder is probably going to be like 25-30.

  198. I mean that’s borderline 1st/2nd rounder right there. They already got another 2nd round pick from the Moore trade. Yzerman could have done better than that.

  199. CT:

    Have they said they intend to rebuild? You wouldn’t think a guy like Downie would be the priority trade if you were trying ensure the most pieces for future development.

  200. Rebuild? I don’t think they would. Why waste Stamkos’ prime and however many years of the rest of St. Louis’s career. They need to get better that’s for sure but I don’t think they need a full rebuild. They’re in a division where they could be back on top within a year or two with the right moves.

  201. So Steve Downie essentially is traded for a first round pick. Interesting deadline is coming, folks….

  202. Regardless of whether you want Nash or not, if Slats doesn’t trade for him, we all gotta face that he’s come a long way: this is exactly a move old Slats would make, and possibly toss in both Brian Leetch to boot.

  203. tampa has a ton of picks. yzerman knew last year was a mirage. they are not close to being a legit contender so he is getting younger and cheaper.

    quincey is a decent player. mdz is better today then quincey by far, many years younger and people on this site want to trade him like he is dale puriton.

    stay the course on Nash unless the price drops a ton. I saw Jesper Fath(however you say his name) i saw him play in world juniors, he can skate. playing in top league in Swededn. How can we evaluate a 18 year old after 3 games? It is impossible for the experts…….

    korpedo would be a net help to the rangers. he would be a 3rd or 4th line depth guy, who could play in all situations with decent skill. but they tried to hit a home run with KHL Enver Lisin, and that was a strike out………..

  204. Ilb: Downie is a former 22 goal, 27A guy who is known to be a physical, if not dirty, player. His numbers may be inflated by playing with Stamkos though so COL will find out the hard way. He was also hurt for the majority of last season.

  205. downie is a smallish maniac. his style is not conducive to long careers. he is a serviceable player. he is playing in key spots for the lightning so his #’s will go down with the avalanche…

  206. He’ll be top 9 on the Avs, maybe top 6 if they feel they want to add some sand paper to their more skilled lines.

  207. Bottom 6 forwards and 4th/5th defensemen going for 2nd rounders as rentals already established that the market was tight.

  208. Look, if you were Sather you have 2 choices. You stay with the team that’s gotten you ‘here’ and you think this team can take you the distance. Or you add something to the mix that will hopefully better your chances in the playoffs. The Rangers most obvious needs are another guy who can put the puck in the net and a QB on the PP, preferably with a big shot. These moves don’t have to be made but they could be made. And if you’re the GM looking at a team that’s contending for a legitimate Cup run then you have to consider what’s available. That doesn’t necessarily mean a Nash or a Suter. It could be a lesser known d-man with a shot that goes over the 50 mph mark. One thing I can tell you for sure is that Sather is gonna get Torts’ opinion before he pulls the trigger. He’s not gonna spend a ton of money for someone who rides the pine because he can’t fit into Torts’ system. I think Sather and Torts have finally reached a place in their relationship where they understand one another with regard to the team they want out there on the ice.

    Having said that, they COULD use a legit QB on the PP. And they COULD use another sniper. You think it’s gonna get any easier to score in the playoffs? Do you realize how essential it is to take advantage of power plays in the playoffs? It often wins or loses you a game. Or at the very least it gets you the momentum TO win a game, even if you don’t score on it.

    Do I love this Rangers team? Undoubtedly. Do I think they could add something to make just a little better and more ready for a storied Cup run? Absolutely. But I don’t think they’ll sell the farm to do it. They may just get a lesser ingredient and hope it works ‘enough’ to make a difference.

  209. It’s really the in zone puck and player movement that the Rangers have difficulty with on the PP. Too many cross ice passes and not enough players rotating around to get the D to consider chasing guys and widening out the coverage. Once the set play of Gaborik from the right side across to Del Zotto sliding down the boards and then back across to Callahan was figured out, they went back to playing too much catch on the perimeter.

  210. CTB: I think the tightness in the market is the only reason why CBJ would trade Nash. I don’t think he’ll get them a better return than what he’ll get if moved before the deadline.

    The races in the West are so close right now. Nobody other than Edmonton and CBJ consider themselves sellers out there. But in the east, TB, NYI, BUF, MTL, and CAR are clear sellers.

  211. Be patient and let the Cup come to us, we don’t have to desperately chase it. Come on!

    …………

    This is a classic line. Your credibility has reached an all-time low.

    “Let the Stanley Cup come to us”…. WOW! What an absolute fool.

  212. PS no to Hemsky. Players named “Ales” do not fare well on our team. How is it the dude only has 4 goals on the season when they have all those former high 1st round guys?

  213. question,
    with the 3 left side Dmen on the roster, and Erixon with the Whale, would anybody consider trading Staal for the big winger that is needed. I don’t think I would, but it is something to consider. McD has become the top left Dman, and MDZ is playing really well. so it would come down to what you believe Erixon will become.

  214. with the Wild 5 pts out in the west, what do you suppose the price for Heatly may be? maybe he comes cheaper than Nash. coming off an awful playoff last year, he may have something to prove.

  215. ““Let the Stanley Cup come to us”…. WOW! What an absolute fool.”

    Seriously. Did he not see last year when the Ducks took a big chance trading Lupul and Gardiner to get Beauchemin and put their team over the top? Learn your lesson, Rangers! The buyers always win!

  216. I don’t know that I want Heatley, he’s one of the main reasons Minnesota is 5 points out in the west…. There’s a reason the guy was traded 3 times already.

  217. would anybody consider trading Staal for the big winger that is needed.

    …………

    I’ve considered it quite a bit. I think from a chemistry standpoint you disrupt less by trading Staal over Dubinsky actually…much harder to part with a proven AllStar Dman that could soon return to form than Dubinsky who has been given every opportunity to succeed and has been a massive let down during a HUGE Rangers season.

  218. Boom Boom Bathgate on

    Right, Mr. D. –

    I hope, for the sake of your prize-winning junior high school Debate Club score our Man just goes out there and prostitutes this organization into the ground for the next decade.

    Conveniently overlooked by your tin foil, cotton candy, Spam and a Big Gulp for dinner perspective on life and business is the fact that every dynasty (generally accepted to mean three or more consecutive championships) was built on a foundation of permanence and long-term planning, not on trading the gold futures of tomorrow for a tin cup filled Kool Aid, today.

    Be sure and let us know how smart you are and how stupid the not-so-reckless among us are when the Rangers – with Rick Nash in their lineup, barely get out of the first round and do their best “no show” imitation in the second round. Rick Nash, at enormous cost, represents a short-term gain of about one inch on a 100-yard football field, where the Rangers Stanley Cup chances are concerned. If you want to buy into the hype that Nash is anything more than that, I would say you were born yesterday and are still buying Madoff equities shares.

  219. Boom Boom Bathgate on

    Are you the same “Mr. D.” Andrew Beyer wrote about at length in his best seller, “Picking Winners?” You know, the guy who told Beyer, ” You know, Son, If I had spent as much time studying law as I have spent in my life on the Daily Racing Form, I would be on the Supreme Court, by now.” lol. It does sound like a statement you would make.

  220. Boom Boom Bathgate on

    Hey Salty, if I had any “credibility” here, this wouldn’t be any fun. Where do YOU have credibility, Salty, down at “Zit-Face Pizza?”

  221. So Boom Boom….wait to throw the contract at Parise, right?

    Or do you really think this team can be a champion without a true first line power forward?

    Or do you think Kreider & friends will have an immediate impact on this team that takes it to the championship level?

    Or do you think the stars we have now (Lundqvist, Gaborik, Richards) will be younger next year (if there is even an NHL season)? Two years?

    Would you rather wait for the rest of the Eastern conference to get their ducks in a row for us to take our stab at winning?

    I haven’t been a regular commenter in years, but I have noticed people laughing at you before. Now I get it.

  222. “Mister D, Beauchemin is not Rick Nash. It’s not like the same would happen to NYR, if they traded for him.”

    Of course not, it just seemed like the most dickish way to illustrate my point that far more often than not the buyers don’t win and that our worst case, paying heavily for Nash then not winning the Cup, is still like an 80% probability or so at worst.

  223. Boomboombathgate:

    I couldn’t disagree with you more.

    If you take Wolski’s contract off the books and swap out Brandon Dubinsky then the Rangers aren’t “crippled” cap-wise at all if they acquire Nash. Yes they have some big contracts that need re-upping 2-3 years from now but you worry about that later.

    Who said that the teams in the west would “roll over” because the Rangers went out to get a LW scoring, hitting grinder (which they dearly need)? Pardon my french but you’re an idiot.

  224. Boom Boom Bathgate on

    When you agree with me, Little Buddy, I will definitely have to take inventory and re-structure. So long as you disagree with me, the sun will continue to rise in the east for me and the west for you. lol

  225. Debra Kay Levi on

    Penguin means “fat winged” They actually have >> Terrific EYESIGHT

    Penguin ALERT for this Evening!!
    Rangers are Hunters & Warriors of Hockey to meaning to Protect & to Conquer!
    Ranger WARNING – Rangers play to unstoppable!

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