Rangers-Blackhawks in review

592

 Thoughts:

1) How the byfuglien are the Byfuglien-less Blackhawks where they are? … and how did they lose nine in a row? … Not that they were great in this game. They sure weren’t. They got a bunch of gifts in the first period, the benefit of some calls, a quick whistle, a ridiculous new rule that allows an offending team to choose whether it will face a four-minute 5-on-4 or a two-minute 5-on-3  Still, they sure have a bunch of talent and some grinders. Kind of like the Philly predicament, I guess.

2) How the bryzgalov do you give the offending team that choice when it takes two minors on the same play? The team that was fouled should make the call — 5-on-3 for two minutes, or 5-on-4 for four, right?  I think the Rangers would have taken the 5-on-3, and would have had a chance to get one and maybe get back into the game. This new rule makes absolutely zero sense to me, that the team that committed the penalties can choose the situation that most benefits that team. But a lot of stuff the NHL comes up with makes zero sense to me. I should be used to it. It’s ludicrous and I don’t mean the rapper. The Rangers sure made the Blackhawks pay on the power play, didn’t they? Probably the easiest four minutes Chicago has faced this season.

3) I agree with John Tortorella (again) that this isn’t solely on Martin Biron. He wasn’t good, and his five-hole has been big enough for Brad Marchand’s nose lately. But, come on. Penalty shot, breakaway, screen shot, breakaway. Hard to say it’s all on the goalie. And though Tortorella said he never considered pulling him because he deserved to fight it out, it also would have made no sense for Henrik Lundqvist to come cold into a game in which the Rangers were playing defensively as they were.

4) I didn’t get a good look at the Brandon Dubinsky elbow, so I have no idea if he made contact with the head, and thus no idea if it will be reviewed? Oh, right, Brendan Shanahan and the alleged Department of Player Safety have already legalized elbows to the head. Or maybe Dubinsky elbowed the guy’s stick and his stick hit his head.

5) You talk about the Rangers being entitled to have one of these once in a while after, remarkably, losing just 13 times in the first 55 games, and they sure are. But even more so, Dan Girardi and Ryan McDonagh, for all the hard minutes they play against all the top players, have to be forgiven for one like this. Boy, were they bad. At least they got a night where their minutes didn’t pile up, for what that’s worth.

6) I imagine all those scouts in the building went away thinking, um, geez, do we really want to trade a good player for some of these guys?

7) That John Scott, 6-8, 270-pound enforcer=Godzilla.

8) Now about some of the calls … first, the penalty shot. I am not sure Girardi ever actually covered the puck in the crease. It looked to me that he put his hand on it and swept it just outside the crease. He might have covered it, and it might have been in the crease. But I can’t say he did for certain.

9) Second, the waved-off, quick whistle goal. I didn’t have a problem at all with that call. Corey Crawford’s skate had the puck pinned on the goal line for quite some time. At what point do you blow it dead when a goalie has control of the puck? I thought he had it long enough for a whistle to blow, and the whistle absolutely did blow before Ryan Callahan’s sixth-effort knocked it in. If you want to complain, complain that the ref who blew the whistle was coming around from the other side and probably couldn’t have seen what we saw on the replay and maybe shouldn’t have blown the whistle. And complain if he really said he lost sight of it, or if he said he saw it under the goalie’s pad.

10) What would the score have been with Rick Nash and Pavel Kubina? I don’t think Kubina’s coming here. The Rangers really don’t want to give up assets to get a fifth or sixth defenseman who might not be as good as Bryan McCabe on the power play. Plus is sounds like Kubina is being dealt soon, and I don’t think the Rangers have anything imminent. I could be wrong (again).

11) There was a lot of red in the building. To be expected with Chicago and an Original Six. And I didn’t mind it, because that red classic Blackhawks jersey (0r Black Hawks) is awesome. I was talking to a guy with an old-school Bobby Hull No. 9 jersey, and was on the train with a Chelios No. 7, complete with the “C.” I think Bobby Hull’s mother used to take Bobby and Dennis by the hand to see Chelios play.

12) I thought we might have a Bickel vs. Bickell fight. Dammit.

13) Really, really nice standing ovation for Gary Carter when they announced his passing during a TV timeout. I got to know the Kid a little bit, actually had the opportunity to have lunch with him a few years ago. I know, people say he had an ego and liked the attention. But he played the game the right way, the way all pro athletes should play — all-0ut, 100 percent, and with joy. And another thing. He started the Game 6 rally in ’86, when some of his teammates were in the clubhouse getting undressed.

********************************
My Three Rangers Stars:
1) Carl Hagelin.
2) Marc Staal.
3) Steve Eminger.
********************************

AP photos, above.

 

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592 Comments

  1. onecupin72yearsandcounting on

    Awful first period but they seemed to get going by the third..
    Sather loves to trade… I don’t think he’ll sit still

  2. Wow, being in one of those corporate suites is an amazing way to see a game!

    Wow, did that game suck or what?

    Oh well…

    LGR’S!!!!

  3. The way this team rises to the occasion of every challenge, it’s so easy to sit here and say they are entitled to a period like the 1st period last night.

    More important, I love how they didn’t quit and had do many chances to get back in it in the 2nd that they still could have won this game.

    It was a one period blip and we move on.

  4. Didn’t think you could get worse than Staggy’s play by play in Pittsburgh . until my ears bleed last night.

    Throw away game, with no injuries…fine with me.

  5. Stranger Nation on

    Mrs Hull…LMAO

    Did they hold the skills competition at the beginning of the game for the Blackhawks. Seemed like Breakaway Central.

    John Scott = human eclipse

    After watching Biron on breakaways, can he actually close those pads? Seriously, is he trying to get them to shoot there. Also something very wrong about Marchand’s nose between Biron’s legs, not sure we want to go there on a family blog, eh?

  6. Watching Biron the last 2 games he has played has been difficult. He has done nothing past average. I would think in the next 6 weeks that he ses the net at most 3 times and only as part of the remaining back to back games.

    Although I like Marty in general, it is difficult to watch his style of play after Hank. Maybe next year a backup goalie that plays the same style. Vulkoun signed for almost the same money as Marty so I am sure that there will be some low price options available. Although i would be delighted to have Marty back for a 3rd season.

  7. So far, the Rangers seem to get up for the conference games against contenders…they looked totally unprepared for last night’s game. I turned it off after the second period. Could partliy be the coaching staff that is pushing them for the conference games that count, not pushing so hard for games like last night’s. I half expected this to happen. Has been a pattern of late. To their credit, they did turn their game around after the first period, but too late to the party.

  8. Crazy first period. Can’t spot a good team 4 goals and expect to get a win. I would have pull Biron after 3. I think Hank saves 2 of those 4.

    We might lose 5 out of the last 25 games. That was one of them. Forget about it and move on.

  9. I can understand and agree that a game like this is expected and understandable in the course of a long season. However, I disagree that they played well for the final 40. They played better in spurts, but I never felt they were motivated enough to scare the Hawks into scoring another goal. Too bad they took a night off during a home game.

  10. stranger nation on

    Still need to get Marty out there every 5 or 6 games to keep the King fresh for April/May/June(?)

    My guess/hope is we see the old pads on next time – what is with the brown pads? Was he paying homage to Tony Esposito?

    Richards may be the easiest guy to knock down in the league. He needs to get on a conditioning program for next season that and get his skating speed going – seems slow…its weird.

  11. Rangers sure accommodated your birthday wish in the first Miami.

    Biron has gotten them some big points earlier in the season, he’s gonna lose some. And so will Henrik too.

    The Hawks were still a team that could skate with anybody the first 45 games of the season, don’t let a 10 game sample fool you.

    @Hopefully they rebound against their soon to be trading buddies on Sunday@

  12. Fortunately I missed the first period. When I got home I was thinking the same thing as you Carp abouot all the scouts in the stands…lol.

    RIP Gary Carter

    As Chris Drury would say…I won’t lose any sleep over this game…move on.

  13. I don’t know if anyone brought it up yet but….

    It’s very ironic that we complain a lot that Hank “goes down too early” leaving the upper areas of the goal open. Well, Biron plays like Brodeur in that he stands up too much exposing the 5-Hole. I think plenty of us have pointed out that it’s an either/or situation and Hank probably has the best percentages covered. Biron on the other hand…..he left a bit open last night.

  14. Dear *Miami:* I wrote you Birthday wishes yesterday

    *Manny* February 16th, 2012 at 4:10 pm

    Happy Birthday Miami you bric-a-brac, fuzzy-nose-toting, big-shoe-wearing, tic-tac-toe-playing clown-of-all-clowns. Enjoy your pathetic, flourless-cake and your non-alcoholic-pansy-hooch. Girls are not going to get within 5 miles of your onion-sac you kumquat-eating, popcorn-sucking, peanut-brittle-chewing, mahjong-playing inbred.

  15. 5-hole? Yeah, Biron’s makes me think I should start teaching that structure during basic anatomy lectures to medical students :-)

    Carp is right, he wasn’t the sharpest we’ve seen, but the whole team played like they decided to take a night off during first period. One has to wonder how much of an impact can all these trade talks have on their young minds…

    Good morning, boneheads!

  16. Hell, we lost 5-2 and I pulled a groin muscle. hopefully they’ll get back on track Sunday night.

  17. I was very happy to notice Carp’s comment about the hit to the head… why did everyone jump on the bandwagon of no hit to the head, if someone tries to hit you in the head and your stick happens to be in the way…isn’t that still a hit to the head!!!!

  18. Carp

    I think Hernandez had popped a beer in the clubhouse while Carter was at bat in Game 6.

    No big deal re” last night. It was a gamblers’ delight —- good team, losers of multiple games in a row, playing really good team coming off a great stretch plus a huge win at BOS. Looks like a landslide on paper, ends up going the other way completely.

  19. Medial would be a very nebulous description in this case, Staal :-)

    You have to admire Torts for not pulling Biron, don’t know if he was tempted to do it at all. That way he let Biron fight through it, and I thought Biron rebounded nicely. And Hank got his scheduled night off. Nice to have that healthy cushion in the standings, for sure.

  20. Stranger Nation on

    Mex popped a beer, Daryl did a shot, Dykstra had a beer bong, Sid went maui-wowie, and Doc knocked down some rails.

  21. Good morning all! Hey, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains….oops, wrong sport. Must be all the Carter talk. Carcillo happens. Right now the only thing I want to trade is the stupid work shift I agreed to for today and tomorrow.

  22. Stranger are you talking about what they did in the on deck circle and in the bullpen before games?

  23. Hopefully they get back on track against a poor team on Sunday. While the number of games and lack of days off could be an issue down the stretch, it seems like most of their games are against at the bottom or out of the playoff picture. 3 v. NJ, 3 v. PIT, 2 v. BOS, 1 v. PHI, 1 v. DET are the toughest left.

  24. Two things:

    1) Biron wasn’t great, but that wasn’t on him. The defense parted like the Red Sea twice there. They didn’t come to play, but dominated the 2nd half of the 2nd period and most of the 3rd.

    2) Rick Nash wouldn’t have helped us win this game. So before anyone says “OMG THIS IS WHY WE NEED NASH”, he would’ve had no impact on that game.

    I’m curious to see how they respond next game on Sunday against the Jackets.

  25. Tuxedo

    Biron’s problem is that he’s got a bad habit. It’s called his “5 hole”….he doesn’t have one.

    But he has a 5 Cave.

    Haven.t you noticed how far apart he stands there with his legs askew just asking for a penetration.

    He did this not long ago on a shoot out, and they plugged him…for the loss.

    He’s not a bad goalie,, but he does have weaknesses…that are obviously not being addressed by the ah, “coaching staff…Don’t they see this in practices? Or does he only adopt it for games?

  26. “Haven’t you noticed how far apart he stands there with his legs askew just asking for a penetration.”

    ***********************

    Um…………………………..fran? You OK?

  27. The way that game proceeded last night reminds one of the burglar breaking into the home of a Quaker, and the homeowner said. “Brother- I would not harm thee for the world, but thou standest where I’m about to shoot.” breaking i

  28. Larry Brooks column has it right.

    If Nash was a FA 4 months ago before season started Rangers would not have signed him to that contract, the 5th highest salary in hockey so why would they trade assets for him now??

    only dummies would make that move……………

  29. Doodie Machetto on

    stuart, Brooks’ logic is flawed. I think the Rangers would have definitely tried to sign him. Parise is going to cost more than Nash and I KNOW the Rangers will bid on him (if they don’t trade for Nash).

  30. If Nash were a free agent and we choose to sign Richards for 9 years and $6.67MM per rather than Nash for 7 years at $7.8MM, I would have punched my computer screen so hard my fist would have actually broken all the way through the internet, out of Sather’s computer screen and hit him right in the cigar/mouth.

  31. Exposed? The Hawks are bigger,faster and more talented. They have 4 forwards who could be placed on either of the Rangers first two lines. Their defense is superior both in speed and puck handling and far superior in putting hard shots on the net. The Rangers have been successful with a gritty, hard working group consisting of mainly third line players and the best goalie in hockey. Without whom they would be a nion playoff team. BTW, does anyone fell Richards is a 7mm. a year player?

  32. If he was an FA, we would’ve gone after Richards anyway considering we needed a center. Richards statistics over the last 6 seasons were better than Nash’s. Nash played 438 games and had 201-191-392. Richards in that same time played 446 games and had 136-303-439.

    Considering Richards would’ve been cheaper and was the center we thought we needed to setup Gaby and our other scorers, we would’ve gone after Richie anyway.

  33. Comnsnse: I don’t think anyone ever did but that’s how free agency works. The good young players don’t make enough, the good older players make too much. If everyone became a free agent tomorrow, Richards would get neither 9 years nor $6.67MM per. But that’s the economic structure of sports with drafts.

  34. “If he was an FA, we would’ve gone after Richards anyway considering we needed a center.”

    Just keep Anisimov at center, no?

  35. When Richards is on his game he’s worth the money. He’s a 75-85 point player who is having a down year. Gaby had his last year, Richards is having his this year. He adjusting to the system and has played better lately.

  36. the hawks are not better then the rangers. the hawks d is better offensively then the rangers d but defensively no chance.

    the rangers did not get the puck deep nor forecheck… and yes the hawks high end forwards are better then the rangers but there forwards 1 thru 12 are not, and the rangers goaltending and neutral zone play are much better.

    rangers play the haswks when it counts in a 7 game series I will take the rangers……..

  37. That wouldn’t have happened because Torts wants Dubi on the wing. He wanted Stepan, Anisimov, and Boyle up the middle. He wants Dubi to play wing because it’s proven that he’s more effective there. The original plan was to throw Richie up top on the first line so Stepan could be the 2nd line center.

    It hasn’t worked out that way (yet, since there is always a possibility that it could) so it looks like a bad signing, but considering our needs at the time, it wasn’t a bad move.

    If you look at just the last two seasons alone, Richards put up 168 points in 152 games while Nash only had 133 in 151. Richards had 52 goals and 116 assists while Nash had 65 goals but only 68 assists. So while Richie was giving up 13 goals on Nash, he was also helping create 48 more goals than Nash, something that was thought to be a necessity at the time.

    The only reason anyone is even discussing signing Nash over Richards now is because we know what Richie has done in a Rangers uniform and it hasn’t been all that impressive (more inconsistent than anything). If we had Nash over Richards right now, we’d be saying the opposite that we should go after Richards and would’ve signed him over Nash if he was available.

  38. Doodie Machetto on

    75 point player? why, because he did it 4 times out of 10 seasons? He’s a 70 point player that occasionally has bigger years.

    Nash is almost always a 30 goal scorer, basically by himself. Richards is a 20 goal, 50 assist guy who needs to play with a scoring winger or he isn’t as valuable. I’ll take Nash’s 30 goals and 60 points over Richards’ 20 and 70 any day of the week.

    Oh, and we signed Richards for nine years at age 31. Nash is 28 and only signed for another 7.

    How is this even a question?

  39. A real post from the p.i.m.p.

    The real question here is:
    – “Will this team’s success in the regular season directly translate to the postseason, or will it get tired and/or be exposed for its inferior individual talent and be eliminated due to lack of scoring in spite of superior goaltending?”

    I truthfully fear that it’s the latter.

    For that reason, I do think we need to go get supplementary scoring in the form of a top-6 wing. My order of preference (taking realism into perspective):
    – Selanne
    – Iginla
    – Ryan

  40. Comnsnse

    which is why the Rangers are not considered true favorites to win the cup because ultimately offense prevails. Teams like Chicago and Philly are much better playoff teams because despite their swiss cheese defense and goaltending, things change in the playoffs.

    You can’t grind your way to a cup unless your goalie stands on his head and even that usually isn’t enough since the other teams step their game up in the postseason…

  41. Mr.D,Sather has given out more bad contracts than FEMA! He is loved by free agents and hated by NHL executives for his profilgate spending. Which I might add has done nothining more than maintain than continued “middle of the pack” stature of the organization. Twelve years of over spending,marginally successful drafts and trades with a current roster of what’s known as JAGS in sport’s parlance. “Just a guy”!

  42. Doodie Machetto on

    Miami, none of those players will be dealt. The Ducks are on a 14-2-3 run right now. They are making the playoffs.

    The Flames, by trading for Cammalleri, sent a very loud message that they are going for it this year. They are only two points out of the playoffs. That isn’t far enough out of the race to trade the face of their franchise.

    The only real impact scoring forwards that are getting dealt are Nash and Carter. I’m hearing Carter to Dallas is a strong possibility.

  43. @BDubi17 Gonna have to pick up a #17 Knicks jersey and get to a game!! DuLINsky???

    ————–

    exactly! DULL-LINsky! step it up you bastage!

    Biron gifted that game to the Hawks… obviously Torts didnt want to throw Martty under the bus but we have eyes… Biron was pretty bad last night. Three out of four goals were stoppable shots.

  44. doodie you don’t get it. say the richards signing was too long and too expensive to do the same with nash compounds the problem that much more.

    also obviously they gave up only $$$$$$$$$$$for RIchards Nash it would be $$$$$$ and a tremendous amount of talent.

    nash is better then richards, so…..the cost of nash would outweigh any benefit of bringing him here plain and simple, no contest. for a trade for him to be a net gain for the rangers he would need to be the best player in the game for multiple years and he is not and won’t.

    Getting Nash is a BAD IDEA, regardless of the Richards movealso being a bad idea…….

  45. That’s not true. Part I of Sather sucked and he earned getting fired. After he wasn’t fired, he’s put together a great Part II. Saying otherwise is just refusing to budge on your opinion.

  46. Doodie Machetto on

    I’m going to get to the game extra early on Sunday and head down to the CBJ side during warmups. Then I’m going to ask Prospal to pressure Nash into limiting his list only to NY to eliminate all of CBJ’s bargaining power.

  47. the rangers have a better chance of winning the cup this ear then the more talented hawks.

    because the hawks are not more talented.. yes the hawks have more top end forwards and there top 2 d men are more skilled then the rangers, so what. the rangers 5th and 6th d men and 3rd and 4th line forwards and adherence to the system and of course the goalie would make all the difference in the world.

    what BS is this. In the playoffs stars make the difference and the game is different.. Ehat are you talking about…In the playoffs the game is tighter checked, more hitting etc. and stars have less space not more………..

    Fools are in love with perceived but not real stars who will not get you over the hump. Rangers need a rental scorer who will not upset the apple cart. Going forward they need the players on the roster to continue to improve; stepan, hagelin, AA, dubi etc. ANd they need the Kreiders and other higher end forwards to make the jump ….

    STAY THE COURSE……

  48. Oleo,

    It’s having a good offense but having good depth at both offense and defense helps too.

    Without Pronger I can’t see Philly making that much noise in the playoffs. Without better goaltending I can’t see the Hawks making it either. Depth sunk the Hawks last year (when Crawford was playing better than he is now).

  49. Doodie – Richards played much of his first two seasons with Modin and Prospal. Not exactly top scoring wingers (although Modin was pretty damn good in his prime). Also who were his scorers on Dallas? Loui Eriksson and James Neal? (of which Eriksson is the only one that broke 30 goals and he only did it once). They were quality scorers, sure, but not top scoring wingers.

    Nash has had playmakers around him too. Zherdev, Vermette, Huselius, even Vyborny (who set him up a ton in his 41 goal season). Quality playmakers, but not top ones. So I’d say it’s pretty even. Plus the big deal last season was getting a guy who could get Gaby the puck. Nash wasn’t going to fix that.

    Also I’m not saying we should’ve gone after either one, I’m just saying that knowing the needs of the team, in this hypothetical situation I believe Sather/Torts would’ve gone after Richards anyway if the contracts were the exact same.

  50. Doodie Machetto on

    stuart, I’m just saying Brooks’ logic is flawed. If both were available in the summer, we would have gone Nash. To say that we wouldn’t have paid him 7.8 million is folly.

    Furthermore, they are going to try and throw that kind of money (and probably more) at Parise this summer. What happens then? You’re still going to be screwed into moving some players (like Dubi) for nothing, just to get under the cap.

  51. I wish I could go to an alternative world where Richards went to LA and we had a lot of cap space and see how I felt about Nash. I bet I’d still be against it, but more because of Dubinsky love than any logical worries about the cap.

  52. larry brooks forgets one thing: four months ago, i assume that no one in the organization thought the rangers would be a leading stanley cup contender. isn’t that the point of this thing to win a cup? i’m not saying rangers should obliterate the team to get nash, but we have no clue what the salary situation will look like in two years.

    a few years ago everyone was worried about contracts like gomez, drury, redden, higgins. fans never want to trade prospects because of the potential they imagine. but nash is 27 and a 30-40 goal scorer. Probably for another 4-5 years. the chances of a prospect being as good is statistically very low. i just can’t believe how many fans are crying about giving up a marginal 20 g/40 pt guy like dubinsky for a star. Dubi is a fine player, but fans have a romantic attachment, not a rational one.

    Brooks wants the rangers to worry about parise or jordan staal (really?)? no one knows what’s going to happen with any of those guys.

  53. And look at their stats this year. You mean to tell me if we saw Nash with his 18 goals and 21 assists on the Rangers right now, fans wouldn’t be calling him a bust just like they are with Richards? Taking out +/- since it’s a BS stat, they have almost the same exact stats this season.

    Don’t give me the “he’s playing with worse players” because Sidney Crosby has put up 100 point seasons with Pascal Dupuis on his wing.

  54. Doodie Machetto on

    Richards needs players to make him valuable. Nash makes other guys who have no value (seriously, Vyborny? Huselius? Vermette?) valuable.

    “Plus the big deal last season was getting a guy who could get Gaby the puck. Nash wasn’t going to fix that.”

    Yeah, Richards TOTALLY fixed that. I said it even during last season: the only thing that was going to fix Gaborik was Gaborik.

  55. but nash is 27 and a 30-40 goal scorer. Probably for another 4-5 years.

    ***

    I can repost the list I did the other day, but the odds of him doing that consistently for another 4 to 5 years are really quite small. He’s been as much a low 30’s goal guy as he has been a high 30/40 goal.

  56. fchamps: You can’t just take Nash’s stats versus a prospects probability and not factor in cost. Kreider giving us 25 at entry level is far more valuable than Nash giving us 35 at $7.8MM. Its not just get the best players, its build the best roster and the one absolute necessity for that is cheap talent.

  57. From Brooke’s NY Post article today: “This means that the Blueshirts would be out when Corey Perry, Ryan Getzlaf and Jordan Staal could become unrestricted free agents in 2013 and thus, might be available leading up to next season’s deadline when the Rangers and their needs will be much easier to define.

    I say no to Nash and maybe even no to Parise or Suter next year, then wait for the chance to sign 2 of the 3 mentioned above the year after. Patience little butterfly!

  58. TB netting a 2nd round pick for Moore sure sets the bar high for other players that can actually score.

  59. If Nash makes them valuable, why is he not doing that this season? Why did Huselius put up better numbers in Calgary (yes I know, Iginla). Why did Vermette put up similar numbers to those he did before he left Ottawa?

    But that’s not even the argument so there isn’t much point in discussing that. You don’t think that Sather/Torts still would’ve gone after Richards if both were available based on Richards better stat performance and Torts’ relationship with him?

    I’m not asking what you would’ve done or telling you what I would’ve done. I’m just asking what you believe Sather/Torts would’ve done.

  60. There’s a handful of players in the league that are actually worth $7M, open market/long term deal that their original team re-signed them to. Neither Nash and Richards are one of them.

    There’s a good chance Parise won’t be worth it either for that much longer.

  61. It’s become a trade deadline tradition, somebody has to give up a 2nd rounder for Dom Moore. Don’t ask why, it just is.

  62. Haha yeah I loved seeing that. It’s almost every year now too. Dom Moore clearly = 2nd round pick.

  63. CTBlueshirt – you might be right about Nash. Put it this way, his goal scoring average looks to be similar — if not better — than Gaborik’s. And he’s younger. I don’t know enough about the history of the Blue Jacket’s but I can’t remember them ever having top-shelf talent. I assume that Nash would have more opportunity here to score, playing with Richards, or with Step in the long run. And this year, you upgrade significantly.

    Mister D — I agree. You have to take all that into account. But if the price is Dubinsky/Hag/Anisimov, and a prospect or two not named Kreider and a pick, you’re adding a potential star winger with a big salary and subtracting a good winger with a decent sized salary.

  64. Doodie Machetto on

    JD, look at Nash’s team! It’s the worst team in the entire league, by far! There is not a single decent offensive player on the team other than Carter and Wisniewski, both of whom have barely played. And most of the time that Carter has played they have tried to force him on Nash and it doesn’t work because both guys are shooters.

    And Crosby is such a false comparison because:

    1) I’m not comparing Nash and Crosby. Before he got hurt, he was the best player in the world, by far. He was on pace for 132 points when the guy who finished first had only 104.

    2) The Penguins also have this guy named Malkin that opposing teams would have to defend. Nash is the only guy any opposing team has to worry about against Columbus.

    3) Crosby gets about a third of points on the PP where he plays with that guy Malkin and Pascal Dupuis is nowhere to be found.

  65. While we’re at fantasy GM. Would you trade for Crosby or Ovechkin given equal contracts and the package required to land them? You get no guarantee as to the health of either of them.

  66. Doodie Machetto on

    JD, I think they would’ve gone for both and tried like hell to figure out how to make it work under the cap, even if it meant packaging Redden’s salary with draft picks to have the space to make the deals.

    “I say no to Nash and maybe even no to Parise or Suter next year, then wait for the chance to sign 2 of the 3 mentioned above the year after”

    Getzlaf and Perry aren’t going anywhere. And who the hell cares about Jordan Staal?

  67. I’m pretty sure that if the Rangers somehow win the Cup this year, at least 3 people will come on here to complain that they didn’t have enough scoring and only won because of Lundqvist. Who the Byfuglien cares how you win if you win?

  68. Doesn’t Evgeni Malkin become unrestricted in 2013 or 2014 too? I think him and/or Weber are the guys you hold out for but there is no way of knowing whether they will be available or not.

    And who knows, Washington may even have to deal Ovechkin if he becomes a malcontent and hurts the team.

  69. Doodie Machetto on

    My answer is complicated.

    Trading for either of the guys depends on the package, and I’m more likely to trade prospects for Ovechkin than I am for Crosby just because of Crosby’s uncertain health. But, if I were the Caps, I would trade Ovechkin for Crosby straight up. Weird, right?

  70. That being said I think Nash would in all likelihood be a great Ranger and is probably worth getting. I know enough about him to know he’s good. No he’s not worth his contract but then again nobody is – if you can score 30 goals and 30 assists somewhat consistently you are considered an “elite” player in today’s NHL and will be paid top dollar by default.

  71. Fair enough Doodie. That would make sense too if they could fit them under the cap. I agree that Getzlaf and Perry aren’t going anywhere either. But that could make Ryan available (although they’d like to keep all 3, they need d-men badly).

  72. fchamps,

    On a per game basis they’re about equal. Nash has stayed healther for sure, but a healthy Gaborik slightly clips Nash. I also think Gaborik is a better passer.

    A lot gets made about Nash’s lack of supporting cast, I tend to think that premise is a bit overrated. Nash still generates a healthy amount of shots on his own, usually top 15 if not top 10 in the league in SOG. Unless he’s jumping to Ovechkin pre-2010 shot totals, I don’t see him scoring much more than he already has. Maybe he gets that initial bump from going to a more balanced team for a year or two. But then you have to weigh that vs the decline that comes as players approach and breach 30 years old.

    I’ve said a few times over the past few days, but Gaborik and Kovalchuk are good examples. Both were expected to put up better numbers on teams that were either more offensive minded (Gaborik in Minny) or surrounded them with better talent (Kovy in ATL). Neither of them have done that much better than they did with their previous teams. Gaborik’s career high season in 09-10 had as much to do with him playing 76 games than it was playing in a more offensive system, which frankly didn’t have a ton of complimentary scoring outside of Prospal.

  73. Doesn’t Evgeni Malkin become unrestricted in 2013 or 2014 too? I think him and/or Weber are the guys you hold out for but there is no way of knowing whether they will be available or not.

    And who knows, Washington may even have to deal Ovechkin if he becomes a malcontent and hurts the team.

    ***********************************************************
    I wouldn’t make a decision today based on what might happen in 2 years. Lebron James.

  74. Doodie Machetto on

    A couple of years ago I said that they should’ve held out to try and land Patrick Sharp. It looked like, at the time, with all of the young players Chicago had and all of their cap troubles, that Sharp would probably hit the market. He didn’t. Teams find ways to keep the players they want. They lost Niemi, Byfuglien, and Ladd, among others, and they managed to dump Campbell, but they found the space to keep the guys they wanted, like Sharp.

    Malkin, Perry, and Getzlaf will NEVER be free agents unless they just want out of their cities. Can’t imagine why any of them would. It’s not like they need to leave to go to a winner: they’ve all won already.

  75. Gravy: that’s exactly my point. Although the Rangers smartly passed on dealing for Richards at the deadline last season because we were a bubble team and knew he’d be coming anyway on July 1.

  76. Doodie Machetto on

    CTB: Part of Kovy’s decline though was because in ATL it was forecheck-pay check and in NJ they have made him work on his two-way game. He’s on pace for 40-50-90 this season, which would be a career high in assists and his 3rd highest point total.

  77. It’s also in Pitt’s best interest to keep Malkin happy. As of today he’s more of a sure thing for that team than Crosby is. And between the two, when Malkin feels like controlling a game, I’m much more scared of him than Crosby.

    I could see one of the guys on the Ducks wanting out. They’ve come back from the dead to make a run of it, but that’s twice in two years they’ve had to do that. That should be an indication that the Ducks aren’t a strong threat.

  78. Doodie Machetto on

    Question: CBJ call and say: Nash for Richards, straight up. Do you do that deal? I say yes before they even finish asking the question.

  79. Doodie Machetto on

    CTB, their poor start was all on their goaltending. Hiller has found his game and the Ducks are winning.

    And while they had to make a strong second-half run last year, they finished fourth in the conference. It wasn’t like they squeaked in on the last day.

  80. Doodie,

    But that’s in line with what he did ATL on worse teams. My point was, he didn’t get substantially better by going to a better team.

    It’s more of a response to people who think Nash will suddenly become a consistent 40 G/80 pt player if he comes to the Rangers. He never has been and coming to the Rangers most likely won’t him into one.

  81. wildplaces, a pattern of late? what pattern, winning eight of 10, then having a bad period? Yeah, that’s unacceptable.

    Good morning, Sally!

    Boy, lots of actual hockey talk here lately.

  82. Doodie,

    But would you consider the Ducks a legit contender? Two of their top 5 guys are Selanne and Koivu. Going forward obviously they keep building around The Ryans and Perry but they drop off dramatically after that. Very top heavy and their D is pretty blah. Fowler is like Jack Johnson, whatever he gives you on offense he gives it right back on defense.

  83. I’ve been saying no to trading for Nash from the day I read the rumor. Every Hockey analyst who follows hockey and knows what there talking about that I either read or heard on the radio are also saying that the Rangers should not do this trade.

  84. “Patience little butterfly!”

    Here’s the strong argument against this: Lundqvist isnt getting any younger.

  85. Doodie Machetto on

    CTB, first, yes, it is in line with what he did in ATL, but he is doing that PLUS being less of a sieve defensively. He actually backchecks now.

    Second, I’m not suggesting that Nash automatically explodes here for new career highs, but I am suggesting that he should have no problem reaching his prior totals on a better team where he is not the only offensive weapon.

  86. Wicky©Proud owner of the world's most persistent cold on

    Morning ILB and all!!

    I agree with doodie!

    I’m not promoting the addition of one guy or the other (I’d rather have Iggy than anyone), but I really do not see the balking at the Nash dollars when Parise is going to have a very similar contract and hit (unless he gives us a hometown discount or something…wait he is a DEVIL)

    I also agree with our captain, the trade rumours may be having a bit of an effect…maybe

  87. again, too me, if the centerpiece of the deal is Dubinsky you have to make the trade.. even with the cap hit..

  88. Doodie Machetto on

    Carp, there’s no question that Nash is overpaid, but Callahan is about to score 30 for the first time in his 5th season (even prorating his first 52 game season he would not have come anywhere close). He has scored 20 twice before, but never 25. Nash has scored 30+ in 6 of his 8 seasons, including 40 twice, one of which was a three-way Richard (sounds dirty).

    So to compare them as goalscorers isn’t fair. Callahan is probably underpaid for all of the things he brings to the table besides his offense, but Nash should still make a couple million more than Callahan.

  89. there really is no debate. If the Rangers can get Nash while keeping Kreider and only losing Dubinsky from the NHL roster then its an absolute no-brainer.

    You can’t turn down that kind of move because of possible cap ramifications 2 seasons later since so much can change in that long a time period.

  90. You know, for the love of Cooke, I could not remember Alexander Frolov’s name all morning????? I wanted to say that Nash wouldn’t turn out like him.

  91. Callahan was on pace for 30 last year and 65 points had it not been for his injury. That’s pretty much Nash’s career averages.

  92. We talk hockey here? That’s a novelty….And no NNs? Yet? Mayans may actually have it right after all……..

  93. Doodie Machetto on

    oleo nailed it.

    Here’s the other thing. After the next CBA is ironed out, every team might get an amnesty buyout. If we can buy out the last few years of Redden’s contract to get him off of our summer cap, we won’t have any trouble resigning players, even if it meant giving a guy like Richards the Redden treatment later on in his contract (when Callahan and Lundqvist are due for renewals).

    Hell, we could use the amnesty buy out on Richards or Nash if we wanted to!

    Besides, when Cally and Lundqvist are due for raises, Gaborik will be 35 then. He isn’t going to get 7.5 million again, that’s for sure. He probably gets one of the one year, incentive contracts or they let him walk.

  94. Ok, but even ignoring cap and production issues going forward. What about this year’s Nash? Do you expect him to jump in rigth away and score more than the 26 projected goals he’s supposed to this year? Or do you take Gaborik and Callahan off the 1st PP unit when both of them have more PPG than Nash? Is he better than Dubinsky? Of course he is. Even a slumping Rick Nash is better than a hot scoring Dubinsky. But I don’t see Nash flipping a switch. Not coming to a new team where he has zero chemistry with anyone. Especially not a team where the coach focuses on defense first. How does any of that add up to making the Rangers a substantially better team for the rest of the season?

  95. Gaborik will be 32 when he is current deal expires.

    I’ve defended the guy as much as anyone here, but even if he’s a 30 G/60 pts guy in 2 years someone is going to offer him a deal that will either be too much of a cap hit and for too many years. I could easily see him getting $5M+ for another 5 yrs from a team desperate for offense. As I said yesterday, I don’t want to see what a 37 year old Gaborik is like.

  96. Doodie Machetto on

    JD, I’ll give you that on Callahan for last year. Doesn’t change the fact that he will only have done it twice, and Nash has done it almost every year since his rookie season.

  97. Wait what? Buy Nash out as part of the amnesty? So you’ll have lost whatever package it takes to get him here and the player himself all for 30 or so games?

  98. isnt Nash 28 years old? doesnt he fit in, even at his cap hit, of a younger type player that will be with the franchise for many years to come?

  99. 28 isn’t exactly young. I’m not saying it’s old, but he’s been in the league almost a decade. The years to come part is what’s worrying. There’s every chance in years to come he’s closer to this year’s Nash than earlier in his career.

  100. Doodie Machetto on

    It all depends on the return. That’s all I’m saying. Nobody can make a straight argument that adding Nash to the team isn’t an improvement.

  101. I can’t imagine a situation where we were given an amnesty buyout and it wasn’t used on Richards. I still think that was part of the thinking when he was signed, if not actually discussed, atleast in the backs of both sides’ minds.

  102. Doodie Machetto on

    BTW, the expectations on Kreider if we don’t deal for Nash will be enormous. He will basically be measured on whether he outperforms Rick Nash.

  103. He’s also been pretty beat up due to his playing style. Guys who play his style and started that young usually fade once they hit 30. Look at Tkachuk and LeClair. Once they hit 31, they didn’t score 30 goals again. Only power forward I can think of that did was Shanahan, but he also played in one of the top offenses of all time and despite his physical game, he managed to stay relatively healthy and score BS goals in front of the net.

  104. Doodie – by who? Who knows if Nash even wants to come here. You can’t realistically compare Kreider to Nash just because “we didn’t get him”. Any Rangers fan who realistically compares him to Nash is a complete idiot.

  105. “Nobody can make a straight argument that adding Nash to the team isn’t an improvement.”

    Of course. Adding Ehrhoff for a 3rd round pick improves the team too but its bad economics. Same with Nash, no matter the cost, it prevents a better future roster from being build.

  106. My only question is what happens if Nash comes here and scored 25 goals a season instead of 30+? Then what? We’re paying 7.8 million for a guy to put up Prucha numbers…

  107. While I’m more in favour of making a move in the summer than trading now for a bad contract, I’ve never understood the Brooks-like argument that a team should plan for certain young star players hitting free agency two or three 1 Julys in the future.

    OK, a team shouldn’t dismiss the notion entirely, but it’s far from certain that those players won’t re-sign before then (or be traded elsewhere before signing). How many under-30s who could be described as a top 10 player in their position have hit UFA status in recent years? There hasn’t been a Parise up for grabs every year.

  108. “BTW, the expectations on Kreider if we don’t deal for Nash will be enormous. He will basically be measured on whether he outperforms Rick Nash.”

    If he is, he really shouldn’t. I won’t.

  109. LW3H: Probably some decent parallels to the Yankees passing on Johan Santana with Sabathia on the free agent horizon here. Similar pitchers, one would necessitate a double pay, one would not, the Yankees waited and their team was better for it. And that’s the biggest spender in an uncapped league, so the benefits aren’t nearly as great as in the Nash-Parise scenario here.

  110. according to dreger, McKenzie on tsn, the bluejackets want Delzotto, dubi, kreider or miller and another prospect and draft choices, any ranger fan that wants to give that up for a Nash is out of there minds.

  111. no ranger fan would want to give that up.. and there is no way the rangers would give that up either

  112. stranger nation on

    Nash would come in here on FIRE and be a huge plus. This guy can carry, create and finish, something we do not see much of.

  113. Doodie Machetto on

    “Doodie – by who? Who knows if Nash even wants to come here. You can’t realistically compare Kreider to Nash just because “we didn’t get him”. Any Rangers fan who realistically compares him to Nash is a complete idiot.:

    If what kills the deal is not including Kreider, how will he not be compared to Nash? If Columbus asks for Dubi, a 1st, and Kreider, and Sather says no because of Kreider, he is saying keeping Kreider is more important than getting Nash. For that to be true, he has to outperform Nash. That simple.

  114. “My only question is what happens if Nash comes here and scored 25 goals a season instead of 30+? Then what? We’re paying 7.8 million for a guy to put up Prucha numbers…”

    Yup. And we’d be out the assets we traded plus stuck with, in all likelihood, two unmoveable contracts for 5+ years. You can stomach Richards’ decline years if the rest of the roster is well built but you can’t have two guys eating up 1/4 of the cap and not producing 1st line numbers. That would be a tremendous way to close what looks like as unlimited a contention window as any team in the league currently has.

  115. Doodie Machetto on

    Del Zotto kills that deal for me.

    If we had drafted Fowler then we might be able to expend MDZ, but certainly not now. No replacement in the entire system.

  116. Doodie: How does one guy out of three have to singlehandedly outperform Nash? If Columbus asks for Dubinsky, Stepan and Erixon, and Stepan is where Sather puts his foot down, does Stepan now have to outperform Nash? (Even though he’ll be making fractions of what Nash does for the next few seasons?)

  117. I still believe we just blowing air around with all this Nash stuff,
    but *if* it happens and considering Duby as a logical goner:
    ???????????????????????????
    Anisimov – Stepan – Gaborik
    Hagelin – Richards – Nash
    Fedotenko – Boyle – Callahan
    Rupp – Mitchell – Prust
    ???????????????????????????

  118. Doodie Machetto on

    Mister D: Yes. Absolutely. Dubi has like 0 value right now. He’s a role player this year making 4 million bucks. He’s David Clarkson last year plus 2 million dollars for another 3 years.

  119. Doodie Machetto on

    Staal, that’s why I said it all depends on the return.

    If it’s somehow Dubi, Erixon, Miller, and a 1st, how is that not a MASSIVE improvement?

  120. I have to say I really like this Rangers team. I had full confidence they would come back last night to at least get a point. Oh well. They get back at it on Sunday. I would not want to be Columbus.

    But 0-7 on the PP, nuff said. Stanley Cup teams don’t go 0-7 on the PP or have the anemic PP this team has currently. It must get better if they indeed are going to do something in the playoffs, because teams will not be scared to take penalties against them.

  121. Dubi had a great season last year…bet you he comes back with a solid playoffs and next season could very well be different…Prust sayin’
    Dubi last season is Clarkson this season…
    Remember Gabby last year?
    Why is everyone soooooo short sighted?

  122. It would be funny, if Nash will score 5 on Hank this Sunday…
    (please, don’t get serious about this remark).

  123. 4ever, if that trade happens — and it’s not looking good at this point, way too expensive — no way Nash is playing second line and bumping Callahan to third. They will play together, or Nash will play with Stepan and Gaborik.

    vogs, no Stanley Cup team has ever gone 0-for-7 on the PP in a game?

  124. Doodie,
    I can’t believe that Columbus wants Dubi, not if he’s the 3rd liner everyone here claims he is.
    No GM other than Montreal’s is that dumb to trade Nash for a 3rd liner.
    They want Stepan, Hagelin, MDZ…etc.
    I’m rooting for LA in this one folks…They have a goaltender that we don’t and Columbus needs…

  125. Doodie Machetto on

    Staal, I agree. But who the hell wanted Gomez? And for McDonagh (among others)! Or Anson Carter for half-price Jagr!? He almost tricked Tampa into giving us Stamkos.

    Sather has pulled off miracles in the past. He could do it again.

  126. I wasn’t “playing” with lines(not my thing), just getting a little bit tired of chewing the same stuff again and again…

  127. carp- if callahan averaged of 35 goals for 8 seasons he probably would be looking at a huge contract. that said, nash probably doesn’t deserve his deal, but as you know, we don’t pick reality we just deal with it. if you took money out of the equation is nash worth dubinsky, miller and/or McIlrath and first round pick (which I know is just conjecture)?

    i guess as a fan, I feel like the rangers are still one scoring winger short of being a seriously dangerous cup contender. a big body around the net that scores consistently? graves is about the only ranger I can think of that’s done that in the past few decades. still waiting on prospects hugh jessiman and lee falardeau to pan out. though i do remember the some outrage over troy mallette going the other way. chemistry, and all.

  128. Im thinking more and more that we will get Nash and that we’ll get to keep Kreider as well. Please stop overrating Dubinsky btw. If he’s a deal breaker for you you need to look in the mirror… I think Miller will be included because as someone mentioned before he’s an OH guy, and it makes sense for the Jackets…then probably Erixon/V-tank/Mcilrath or 2 of the 3, a 1st rounder, Dubinsky/Anisimov (probably Dubinsky because he’s more known around the league and probably has slightly more value) and perhaps Thomas…. Columbus wants to blow the team up and rebuild from scratch….why wouldnt they want to take 3-4 young promising prospects? btw Doodie, im surprisingly agreeing with most of what you’re saying, weird. Dont get me wrong I wouldnt mind going to the playoffs with the way this team is built right now, I just think getting Nash makes us better.

  129. I still think Columbus is/has been out of their minds with their asking prices if reports are accurate. No way anyone gives them what they are looking for at this point. They have to come back to earth in order for any deal to be made…..with any team not just the NYR. So often when big names are dealt the return is no where close to a even swap. imho.

    4ever – I’m not saying yes or no on Nash but deciding whether he would play with Gaborik or Richards wouldn’t really a bad problem to have.

  130. Doodie

    Even if a direct, one-on-one comparison of the performance of Nash and Kreider were correct (which it isn’t), you’d at least have to be talking about a timeframe of the next few years.

    Nobody outside of Boom Boom should be expecting Kreider to match or surpass Nash’s production next year. But I accept it wouldn’t stop Brooks churning out a column making that exact comparison…

  131. if we dont get Nash i still expect Sather to make some trades and trade away some of our NHL players which all of you are hesitant to get rid of (dubinsky, anisimov for instance)….will that be worth it?

  132. “If it’s somehow Dubi, Erixon, Miller, and a 1st, how is that not a MASSIVE improvement?”

    Its a MASSIVE improvement to this year’s roster, no doubt. Its also giving up a current top 9 forward, a future top 4 defenseman, another top 9 forward who is supposed to be a great fit for the current system and an unknown late 1st prospect. And its costing 1/8 of our cap through 2018. So there’s a very decent chance its a 2011-12 win and a loss beyond that (maybe with another win or breakeven year or two). *Or* things could blow up this year, a major injury to King or another key player or just simple regression, and we’ve now mortgaged the future for a season that fell apart anyway. We have an amazingly long window right now, pretty much for as long as Henrik remains good, let alone his current greatness. Nash(‘s contract and cost in assets) shrinks that window.

  133. Doodie Machetto on

    I also think Boston has an outside shot. Chara isn’t getting younger, and while Rask is their goaltender of the future, they might mortgage that future for one or two more strong runs. Thomas has another season in him. Rask, Krejci, Dougie Hamilton, and a 1st.

  134. Boston makes sense, I totally agree. Can’t just keep paying Rask more and more to be part of the future so maybe this is when you just go for it. If we were in their position with their upper roster composition, I’d say go for it.

  135. vogs – Boston was 0-24 at one point IN the playoffs last year and still won the cup. If you score 5-5 and don’t let up many goals, then you can still win the cup.

  136. Lev, please explain,
    “Please stop overrating Dubinsky btw. If he’s a deal breaker for you you need to look in the mirror……Dubinsky/Anisimov (probably Dubinsky because he’s more known around the league and probably has slightly more value)…”

    Huh? does Dubinsky have more value? or is an overrated overpaid 3-4th liner?
    How do we determine how valuable a player is anyway?

    I’m happy we on this board only play with Fantasy Hockey, not the real deal.

  137. If Dubinsky were a free agent right now, someone would give him $4MM per year. I don’t have a doubt in my mind about this. Conflating personal dislike and a really down offensive season with a lack of market value is dumb.

  138. http://i.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=388064

    Nash is second to only OV in having scored the most goals in the fewest seasons played. Does that need to be repeated for those not paying attention in the back row??

    But we should definitely not do the trade because dubi MIGHT return to being a 24 goal scorer and Parise MIGHT sign with us in the summer and Kreider MIGHT be a cheaper version when he plays in NHL and Perry, getzlaf and Ryan MIGHT sign with us in the year 2018….so you can obviously see why we should definitely not trade for arguably the leagues top goal scorer because we MIGHT have the opportunity to get someone kinda similar sometime in the near future…totally logical.

    BTW…trade everyone and fire torts…teams who are in first place by 9 points this late in season should never have a bad game.

  139. mister d —

    who knows if erixon is going to be a top four defenseman? but it still makes sense. we already have a top 4: mdz, mcd, girardi, staal. only one isn’t young.

    as for a first round picks: of the rangers’ last 15 first round picks, only 4 have gone on to be regulars so far. malholtra, montoya, staal, del zotto.

    odds are good that nash will give you more than the pick.

  140. Doodie Machetto on

    You think Erixon will be better than one of Staal, Girardi, McD, or MDZ? Because otherwise, he won’t be a top 4 on our team. And then there are still McIlrath and Sauer. I’m not concerned about losing Erixon, at all. I’m really low on Miller and I was before the draft as well. I think Miller sounds like a great third liner. Big deal.

    Our window is Lundqvist’s prime. I’m not sure how long that window lasts. He has played a lot of games and is a butterfly goaltender. I think we will probably start to see the decline in his mid 30’s say? That gives us about 5 years. That’s it. Adding Nash’s contract will shorten it by what? Maybe one year? But if it was my hypothetical package (also sounds dirty), those four years would be so much more focused. Hell, even if it’s only 3 years instead of six and the only roster players we lose are Dubi and maybe Erixon as a third pairing defenseman, but adding Rick Nash? I’d say we are much more likely to win more than one Cup in those three years than in any of the other 6.

  141. I will say this, if this type of situation happened 3 years from now, I’d be all about making the trade. If a top player was available via trade and we had to give up picks/prospects and we had built the team 5 years before, I’d say go for it since it would give us that chance at a cup. We’re not at that point yet though.

    We’ve built the team and are still building it with young prospects and players from within that will give us a chance to make consecutive runs at the cup. If we were in a Detroit/San Jose situation where we had already made runs several years in a row and couldn’t get over that hump, then I’d go for a player like Nash since it’s worth the risk. Right now, we aren’t in that position yet.

  142. Doodie Machetto on

    “If Dubinsky were a free agent right now, someone would give him $4MM per year”

    Nobody would give him that. Not a chance.

  143. Boston is also the exception to the rule. Check out the PP% of the Cup finalists throughout the lockout, they’re all pretty decent.

    That being said, I don’t think Nash helps the PP any more than it being a poor strategy that they have the guys try to execute.

  144. Staal, for me Dubinsky is nothing more than a 3rd liner while Anisimov too is a 3rd liner with more potential to becoming a border-line 2nd liner if he brings it every single night. A bunch of NYR fans were saying that Dubinsky is a future 1st liner when he came up, then it went down to ok he’s a good 2nd-line player… not even that for me.

  145. “Nash is second to only OV in having scored the most goals in the fewest seasons played. Does that need to be repeated for those not paying attention in the back row??”

    He scored 41 goals in 2003-04 which buoys that stat. It means zero in the discussion of 2012-2018 Rick Nash.

  146. If you’re judging Dubinsky by only 55 games this year, of course not.

    If you’re judging him as a player that increased his points/game every season he’s been in the league, plays against other team’s top lines and plays on special teams…yeah someone would offer $4M.

    Which rationale did you think the Rangers used?

  147. Joke,
    I’d rather continue to watch this team mature and grow into a regular contender. I’d rather not strap the organization with a few expensive players and then find themselves unable to keep the kids they drafted and brought up through the organization.

  148. Doodie Machetto on

    Let’s not fool ourselves. The whole team is Lundqvist. Without him, this franchise is boned. There isn’t an NHL-level goaltending prospect, even as a backup, in the entire system. Biron isn’t leading this team to a Cup.

    We have to win while Lundqvist is still in his prime. That simple.

  149. remember folks, with or without Nash, the Rangers will be a top 6 team in the East (barring catastrophic injuries for the next 6+ years)

    trading for Nash would be for one reason and one reason only, the playoffs. Nash is the type of player that can win a Conn Smyth and/or lead all playoff performers in scoring something none of our young players (including Callahan) are really capable of.

    That’s why you make the move…

  150. Joke – that’s seasons, not games. Not taking anything away from him, but if Crosby wasn’t hurt, I’m sure he’d be up there too. And Malkin.

    Fchamps – don’t forget about Korpedo and the fact that Cherepanov died. Once Gordie took over scouting, our picks have been much better.

  151. Doodie Machetto on

    CTB, I think they judged him prior to this year. If he was coming off of this year and about to get a new contract, I think he would have been a lot closer to 3 million than 4.

  152. There’s no rule that says a guy that isn’t in a top 4 D rule can’t be considered valuable. Don’t you think a coach would love to send out 3 pairs of D, spread out the minutes equally vs giving Giradi/McD a half hour per night and Eminger/Woywitka/Bickel less than 10 mins a night?

  153. “Nobody would give him that. Not a chance.”

    15 players got that much in free agency last year. You really think a 25 year old coming off a 54 point season but in the midst of a down year wouldn’t? I really, really, really disagree. So do Tomas Fleishmann, Ville Leino and Brooks Laich’s deals.

  154. stranger nation on

    Lord Biron, Roll a Dubi, Miller Beer, #1 nose-pick for Nash, Stills and Young – No Crosby, (too risky)

  155. trading for Nash would be for one reason and one reason only, the playoffs. Nash is the type of player that can win a Conn Smyth and/or lead all playoff performers in scoring something none of our young players (including Callahan) are really capable of.

    ***

    What of his 4 playoff games of experience leads you to believe that? He could very easily turn into a ghost in the playoffs.

  156. Lev

    LOL! ya ne rzhu! its totally possible for the Pen()s to snatch Nash… i was just making a smart assen comment… read my post again carefully ;)

  157. i don’t get this cap worry, either
    dubinsky’s 4.2 comes off as does wolski’s $3.8

    those two alone pay for nash.

    fedotenko’s $1,400,000
    drury goes from $3,716,667 to $1,666,667
    aren’t we still paying redden?

    It’s two years before most of the young guys have to be renewed. They’re restricted free agents. they’re not going anywhere.

  158. BTW, funny fact: Nash, with this exact spelling, in Russian means “our”. So, nash Nash sounds like our Nash, but Nash – nash sounds like Nash IS ours.
    From any Russian speaking point he is already here. End of discussion.

  159. They pay for Nash this year, but you still have to account for future years when Wolski’s half isn’t applicable. As it stands, we should have about $9MM open in free agency. With Nash in and Dubinsky out, we have $5.5MM. Big difference in what that buys, especially considering our roster sha*p*es up to *a*llow us to use those dolla*r*s as a lump sum for one posit*i*on rather than divided over *s*everal rost*e*r spots.

  160. So Nash isn’t an elite scorer because he scored 41 goals one year? And you wouldn’t improve the team because you’d rather watch the team continue to mature and grow together even though everyone agrees you don’t sell the farm to make the trade happen?

    Ugh…I give up. I think The Tick was right when he said “I’m not going crazy, im going sane in a crazy world!”

  161. czechthemout!!!! on

    It astounding to read some of the silly comments about whether or not to add Nash.
    Someone actually argued that Nash played with the same quality players as Richards did in Dallas. Lol!
    So Heuselius,Vborny,Vermette,and god knows what other scrubs is equal to Jamie Benn,Branding Morrow, James Meal,Louie Ericcson, and a bunch of good defensemen and goalies is a joke.

    Nash never played with anyone . Not a real goalie ,nor a deL defensemen. In fact his best defenseman is Tyutin, at best a number four dman.

    Rick Nash is a great player who is only 27 years old. He will score 40 goOd here without question and also score a bunch of shorthanded goals. He will make us a consistant offensive team and add much needed size, speed,grit and scoring ability. Oh yeah and the powerplay as well. Other than the obvious guys and Chris Kreider I would nOw anyone else available.

    AA,Dubi,MDZ/Erixon/Mcilrath and a number one gets it done.

    Bottom line is, are the Rangers better with Rick Nash and Chris Kreider than they are with Dubi and AA? You better believe they are!

  162. We’ll probably get Nash for Dubinsky, Erixon or McIlrath, JT Miller, a 1st and a 2nd.

    Remember, he makes $7.8M a year for the next 5 years. Columbus wants to be rid of that contract.

  163. fhcamps,

    For 2012-13 they’re fine. If you’re swapping Nash’s contract for Dubi’s + Wolski. This offseason they only really have to worry about MDZ, Biron and Prust. None of whom are getting huge raises as I think MDZ’s sophomore campaign cost of him from getting a deal that buys out his arb years and he’s not arb eligible.

    It’s after 2012-13 where you have virtually nobody coming off the books and raises due to Stepan and McDonagh, plus you have to renew AA and Sauer (although I’m inclined to let him be a cap casaulty). If McDonagh keeps playing like he’s playing he could get a Staal-like deal that buys out his arb years and costs $4M or so a year. Stepan possibly as well.

  164. I didn’t know we got a 40 goal guarantee and Kreider for this year’s Cup run. I guess that changes everything.

  165. so you want to have money to sign free agents but you don’t want to get rid of any young players. are you trying to stock two teams? with dubsinky off and nash on, your payroll is 3.5 million heavier. with wolski, drury, redden, fedotenko, and others off, it makes no monetary difference other than this summer. not sure where you got the $9mm to $5mm.

  166. “Columbus wants to be rid of that contract.”

    Brought this up yesterday. Seems like no one is considering that they might be much more motivated to sell him than is being reported. With Ryan, the Ducks had every reason to just pull him back and move on. With Columbus’ current cap situation, they have motivation to get out from under a few contracts, even if its Nash.

  167. Doodie Machetto on

    Mister D, Fleischmann cashed in on Florida’s need to spend to reach the cap floor. Also, Fleischmann didn’t have a bad year, he had a bad injury. He was a point per game player for Colorado.

    Leino cashed in on Buffalo’s spending spree/his career year/strong playoff performance record.

    Laich had his third highest career points total on a team whose entire scoring was down because of refocused game plan of concentrating on playing good defensive hockey. Also, on a team of playoff underachievers, he was an overachiever for his season averages.

    So Dubi is not a good comparison to any of them when they signed their deals.

  168. “not sure where you got the $9mm to $5mm.”

    Cap Geek forcasted into next year with raises for Prust and MDZ got me the $9MM and $5.5MM, which is the rounded difference between Nash and Dubinsky. Any way you look at it, Wolski isn’t on the 2012-13 cap so Dubinsky out and Nash in is 3.6MM we have less to spend next offseason.

  169. How do you know this makes the Rangers a better team? On paper? Sure. I’ve said that. But everyone is under the assumption that he comes over here and starts scoring 40 goals again (which he’s only done twice). He’s only been in the top 10 in scoring twice in his career and the last time was 3 years ago. I don’t see how that’s worth his price tag or how that guarantees that he’ll make the Rangers better.

  170. Nice discussions today…Funny, most of your arguments ( both ways ) make total sense. Including some Russian gibberish :-)
    Except, it looks like they are going for it. Which means they looked at all different angles, including the cap issues. And, even though it becomes difficult after 2012-2013, it’s still very doable. One thing I know, they will not overpay for him, talent wise. I’m pretty sure MDZ isn’t going to Columbus, for example. So I’m pretty calm on that issue, either way.

  171. with all this talk about dubinsky, though, if i were the CBJ i’d rather take anisimov. his ceiling is probably higher as an offensive player, he makes less, and he’s younger.

  172. Doodie, you just had to give an explanation for why each of those three got their $4MM+ rather than stating “those three are all far superior players”. Doesn’t that sort of point in my direction that some team, be it a team on a Buffalo spending spree, a team that focuses on his defensive work like Washington did or just a team looking to hit their cap floor with a very young UFA would find a reason to give him $4MM? Obviously unanswerable, but I’m pretty confident.

  173. Jonny D

    This is an absolute truth about Stanley Cup hockey, offensive minded plays provide the overwhelming majority of goals scored whereas defensive first players rarely ever score.

    Playoff hockey is all about offensive skill since the game is so much different than regular season hockey. Its a completely different style of play that favors the star players and the one way offensive talents…

  174. “Nice discussions today…Funny, most of your arguments ( both ways ) make total sense.”

    I do want to say this is my favorite part of debating with Doodie. Hasn’t been a time yet where I’ve just scoffed and said to myself “eh, he’s wrong”. Always a good counter.

  175. basically this conversation is exactly the same as it was last year… only it was Richards on everyone’s tongue. And now Richards is here and everyone survived it!

  176. Rick Nash is a great player who is only 27 years old. He will score 40 goOd here without question

    ***

    He’s got more years scoring below 35 than he does scoring above 35. He’s an occasional 40 goal scorer, not a consistent one.

    And in the entire history of the league there’s been 39 players to score 40 or more goals past age 28 at least twice. That lists shrinks down to 17 players to have done it at least 3 times.

  177. Hearing that Dubinsky has an 80% chance of being traded is very depressing to me. I know it makes sense but it’s like losing a kidney. Or a middle aged dog or something.

    No to any trade that includes Del Zaster.

  178. Doodie Machetto on

    CTO is willing to pay a little more than I am. Just too many pieces at that point. MDZ is a deal breaker for me because we don’t have a player like him in the entire system. I probably do the rest though, preferring to dump Erixon over McIlrath since Erixon plays the left side and we have three young guys there… unless we then flip Erixon for something else to replace Anisimov or Dubinsky

  179. Columbus just took on Carter and Wisniewski. The team was godawful every single year. None of their top draft picks other than Nash have panned out as star players (Pascal Leclaire, Rusty Klesla, Vyborny, Voracek, Zherdev, Filatov, the list goes on and on). They drafted Europansies for the loss and nothing has worked for that team since they existed.

    If they get rid of Nash they can spend what money they have on different kinds of players an move on.

  180. Wicky©Proud owner of the world's most persistent cold on

    I would do a dubi aa sauer 1st bjork type of combo for sure (maybe erixon, but i doubt they deal him unless a top flight d man is involved)

    no way I deal mcilrath czech..you really hate him don’t you?

  181. Also this reminds me of the same situation as Kovalchuk. Kovi came over to help the 1st place Devils make a cup run. He was considered one of the best goal scorers in the league (he’d be top 10 in goal scoring in all but 1 of his seasons (his rookie year).

    Kovalchuk is a BETTER goal scorer than Nash, makes less money (at the time I believe it was about the same when you take into the difference in the cap), and was supposed to be that missing piece. How did that work out for them?

    Mind you what they gave up in that deal wasn’t all that special as Atlanta felt handcuffed and two of those were draft picks, but they’ve gone from being the top team in the Atlantic division over the last 15 years to a 1st round playoff exit, a year in which they missed the playoffs, and another season in which they’ve been pretty good, but nothing special (this season).

    We’re thinking what happens in the best case scenario and act as if Nash will come onto the team, put up 40 (which as I said he’s only done twice in his career) and he’ll catapult us into the Stanley Cup even though he’s only played 4 career playoff games. I’d at least consider what happened to the Devils before you think about making the trade.

  182. CT — well, using that thinking, it would be also fair to say that dubinsky is a 10-goal scorer who occasionally scores 20.

    also, one of those years nash scored 31 in 54 games.

    this is like adding another gaborik.

  183. CTB- even if he scores 30-35 goals, one has to take into account how many more goals may be scored by the rest of the team just because the opposition would have to deploy their best D-pair against him by default.

  184. “This is an absolute truth about Stanley Cup hockey, offensive minded plays provide the overwhelming majority of goals scored whereas defensive first players rarely ever score.”

    Fernando Pisani?

    (Agree that offense is needed, just think you’re overstating the case a bit there…)

  185. oleo – Tell that to Max Talbot. Tell that to the Bruins last year, or Bergenheim, or Ryder, or Dave Bolland. I agree that offensive players have the advantage offensively, but it’s not as if they are the only ones chipping in.

    Mister D – I agree. It’s been great discussion today. Even the guys who think we should get Nash, I can’t disagree with their logic. It’s turned into a situation where we just keep providing more and more reasons even though we’re all stuck on our thinking. It’s all good talk though.

  186. What Rick Nash does in the regular season is essentially meaningless. I dont care whether he scores 32 or 42, what matters is that we have a player who is a threat to score every time the puck is on his stick and that is what wins in the playoffs.

    Look at Ovechkin, the guy is nowhere near as good as he was a few years back but when it comes to the playoffs he can bounce on any loose puck and beat you in a blink of an eye which is why without Crosby, he is the most dangerous guys when it comes to the playoffs…

  187. Doodie Machetto on

    “James Meal?

    Somebody in New Jersey must be pushing hard for Lou Lam to acquire this guy.”

    You win the internet today.

  188. Also there are a lot of guys that scored goals in the playoffs that were really young and ended up pushing their careers. Giroux was a highly-touted rookie that had a pretty decent rookie year and then went on a tear in the playoffs. Same with guys like Pavelski, Franzen, Perry, Marchand, Couture, etc.

  189. carp – Guess my point is Stanley Cup teams have power plays that make the other team pay for taking penalties, this team doesn’t make the other team pay, yet.

  190. Oleo – Kovalchuk was thought to be the same thing and the Devils still got knocked out of the playoffs in the 1st round.

  191. fchamps,

    This isn’t about Dubinsky vs Nash. Nash is a better player, hands down. I said that earlier in the thread. You can probably find a taker on Dubinsky even if he has another 40-45 point year next year, because he’ll only have 2 years left on his deal at a reasonable enough cap hit. You will not find another taker for Nash (ignoring his NMC) if he starts producing in the high 20s/low 30s.

    This is about thinking that Nash is going to be substantially different than he has been over the course of 650 games. Accounting for the trends in the productivity of players his age, there’s a ton of evidence to suggest that he won’t get any better and in the not so distant future start getting worse. I don’t think he’s worth nearly $8M in cap space now and I think he’s a huge risk going forward.

    The same applies to Gaborik, which is why I’m comfortable with cutting him loose at the end of his contract unless he takes like a 2 year $3M per year deal.

  192. I will say what I have been saying – I don’t like the “win now” mentality. We cannot leverage the future or handcuff ourselves by taking on another massive contract of a declining start/superstar. Maybe I am wrong and getting Nash really perks up the guys in the locker room saying, “we believe in you this much that we are getting you this piece.” I tend to think that getting Nash, and having a WIN NOW mentality goes against everything this current team and coaching staff stands for.

    Also – won’t it take Nash a long time to adjust to our system? I mean we aren’t the most offensive minded team.

  193. @Tuxedo Park — Vokoun’s signing was an anomoly in the goaltending/salary cap world. He was basically under the impression that in one season, he’d win a cup with Washington (and be their starter all year). Goalies of that caliber will get five or six million a year anywhere else.
    @Doodie — Rask, Krejci, Dougie Hamilton and a 1st is CRAZY for Rick Nash. Can you see Boston giving up four future roster spots (one being a top line center and a future franchise goalie) for one goal scorer with a huge contract?

  194. I almost hope that we do make this trade, so that when Nash comes in and puts up his usual 30 goals and 60 points and we’re handcuffed for years and go back to the late 90s/early 2000s, Rangers fans can bitch and complain about “Why we even bothered trading for Nash”. Would be funny to see us lose in the 1st round again after making that trade. This place would explode.

  195. Doodie Machetto on

    ” but they’ve gone from being the top team in the Atlantic division over the last 15 years to a 1st round playoff exit, a year in which they missed the playoffs, and another season in which they’ve been pretty good, but nothing special (this season).”

    There are so many things wrong about your comparison that I don’t know where to begin. Their fall from grace last year was caused by a lot of things, including:

    1) Brodeur’s decline
    2) No good defensemen
    3) Parise’s season-long injury
    4) A terrible, terrible coaching hire (remember their run in 2011?)

    As for comparing them to teams of the last 15 years, losing two Hall of Fame defensemen can do that to your franchise. Not to mention several rule-changes that hurt the Devils (elimination of the two-line pass, increased obstruction rules, the trapezoid).

    You know what didn’t cause their decline? Losing Bergfors, Cormier, and a draft pick for Kovalchuk.

    Here’s a better way to look at this. Devils this year with Bergfors, Cormier, and their draft pick vs. Devils this year (or any year) with Kovy. Answer: Devils with Kovy and it’s not close.

  196. Remember that time Kovalchuk missed a pass with their net open and scored on his own goal? That was awesome.

    But yea – doodie is right. Parise being hurt and Fatso being horrendous almost overnight was the biggest killer.

  197. Jonny, I know what you’re saying, but you can’t wish for the Rangers to revert back to that.

  198. Doodie Machetto on

    Cory: Yes. I can. First of all, Krejci is a throw away part. He’s one of the slowest skaters in the NHL. Second, they need to win while they have Chara because after Chara is done, it will take them a while to replace him. He’s 35 years old. What does he have left? 3 years? 4? Thomas probably has another 2 in him after this year. Make 3 more strong runs, then blow it up.

  199. Doodie Machetto on

    I shouldn’t say Krejci is a throw-away part, but they are set down the middle with Seguin and Bergeron.

  200. Chara looked like he was having trouble with the Rangers forecheck in Boston, when the Rangers were interested in attacking at least. I think a few times Hagelin might have skated underneath his legs.

  201. Doodie, but Nash and Kovalchuk aren’t going to command the same package. Nash doesn’t have to go anywhere and the whole world knew Kovalchuk wasn’t staying in Atlanta.

  202. CTBlueshirt — those are all reasonable assertions. but what i think works for nash is 1. he would be leaving obscurity to play on the big stage. this could re-energize him. 2. he would be playing with better talent. 3. (most importantly) he would probably makes us better this year — and the next couple. guys like nash are rarely available at 27. with a guy like nash, and everyone healthy, you have two serious lines that need to be shut down. and you have another two lines of above-average defensive minded players. if you then add kreider (and he’s for real) and hagelin improves, you’re talking about a team with a lot of options up front.

    that said, i’d be fine without him, as well. i don’t think the rangers need to overpay. i just don’t think there’s much downside if the trade parameters are the ones people have been throwing around (and to be honest, we have no clue what CBJ want).

  203. CTB – I obviously don’t, but I’m just saying that a 30-60 guy is not going to help us win the cup. Knowing our history with high priced talent, this has failure written all over it.

    Everytime we get expensive “top” talent to come here, people immediately think they are going to be amazing. Gomez averaged 55-60 points a season and put up his career averages when he was here. Yet fans thought he was an FA bust just because he got paid 7.5 mil to do what he had always done. Same with Drury, he put up his career averages yet he was a bust. Most fans were excited to get them too. Even Petr Nedved put up numbers that were his career averages (actually better than his career averages) and fans booed him.

    Nash has that situation written all over it. Sure, he scores 30-60 like usual and that sounds intriguing now. Then he gets here and does the same thing and fans will turn on him just like they did to all of the other players that came here.

  204. Johnny D

    and who led the Devils in postseason scoring??? Players like Kovalchuk are what make a team go far, not guys like Prust and Boyle…

  205. Doodie Machetto on

    “Doodie, but Nash and Kovalchuk aren’t going to command the same package. Nash doesn’t have to go anywhere and the whole world knew Kovalchuk wasn’t staying in Atlanta.”

    I agree 100%. That’s why I’ve been saying all along: it depends on the return.

  206. Doodie – Krejci was one of their best players in the playoffs last year and as a 2nd/3rd line center, the guy is putting up 60-65 points a year who they just extended at 5.25 mil.

    I’d rather have Krejci at 5.25 mil than Nash at 7.8 mil.

  207. Doodie Machetto on

    oleo, actually, you need to have both. We lack enough of the Kovy-type though and have an abundance of the Prust-Boyle.

  208. Gomez and Drury instantly became 2 of the top 5 highest paid players in the NHL when they were signed. That is why it was such a bad move…

  209. czechthemout!!!! on

    Doodie

    I meant James Neal. Hard to type on my touch screen phone. I don’t think MdZ is Anthony special. He has no shot and given all his pp time, his stats are not that impressive to me. Remember, he was drafted to be a powerplay qb. And based on our pp and how its been. You can say at the very least that it is well below average as has been his play on it. As for his improved defensive play, I think it can easily be replaced with Erixon.

    Wicky

    I don’t hate Mcilrath. In fact, I was impressed with some of the pre season games he played in. But from what I have read about his play in NJ.kids this year, it seems as though his play has not improved much if anything, it may have regressed. He has been suspended twice for dirty hits and his hockey sense has been questioned. Also even though he impressed me somewhat in the preseason, I don’t think he will ever be more than a #5 or#6 dman.

  210. Doodie Machetto on

    Plus/Minus isn’t a true indicator of a player’s value by any means, but the majority of that team is plus 10 or better, with 6 guys who are actually plus 20 or better. Krejci is a minus 6. He’s the only minus among guys who have played 25 games.

    He is one of the slowest players in the NHL. They’ll do fine with Bergeron, Seguin, Peverly, and Kelly down the middle.

  211. Doodie Machetto on

    CTO, I knew who you meant. It was just a funny joke by LW.

    I think right now MDZ is just an OK puck-moving defenseman, but that he is the only guy in the system that has shown any proficiency at it. I think he also has a higher ceiling than most of our guys, but it’s looking like he won’t quite reach that potential. He still has the potential to be a very valuable contributor.

    By comparison, I don’t think he will ever be Zubov, but I think there’s a good chance he can be Zidlicky.

  212. He plays with Horton and Lucic. Their +/- hasn’t been great, but that line has been amazing for them. It carried them to the Cup last year. Krejci’s ability to find Lucic around the net or Horton in the slot is extremely undervalued IMO.

  213. Doodie Machetto on

    Manny, I said it yesterday that there’s a good chance of that happening. I don’t like that move unless the return is a draft pick round 5 or later and/or a low prospect (of the Bourque/Valentenko variety).

  214. I respect that school of thought, but think about this — can Boston EVER really replace Chara? He’s not showing any signs of slowing down at 35, either (been called the hardest working player in the league, Google his workout routine). I wouldn’t call Krejci a “throwaway part” by any stretch: he finished 13th in assists last year (+23, too); 44 career points in 52 career playoff games; skated for the Czech national team at 2010 Winter Olympics … sounds like a real non-factor to me. Boston will actually have to get an additional centerman now with Peverly’s injury, unless they move Seguin back, which I can see but doubt given how well he’s done at the wing this season.

  215. Here’s what makes me think Nash isn’t happening:

    1) The demands we’ve seen are ridiculous. No idea if those are real, or how much Sather could whittle them down. But there’s no way the Rangers are giving up a guy off one of their top two lines (Stepan or Anisimov), a guy like Del Zotto, plus Kreider and a No. 1, or anything close to that. I’d have a really hard time doing Dubinsky, Kreider and a No. 1, and I don’t think that will get it done. Nor do I think the Rangers will trade Kreider unless it’s an absolute deal-breaker. And I think McDonagh and Stepan, and maybe MDZ, are untouchable.

    2) The goalie part of the equation. CBJ needs/wants a goaltender.

    3) What makes us think Columbus really wants Dubinsky, in his current form, with that contract? And if Dubinsky doesn’t go, it really complicates Nash’s cap hit, doesn’t it?

  216. fchamps,

    1. It could be easily argued that he would not deliver on the big stage too. He’s never been on the big stage in the NHL (as opposed to a short tournament in the Olympics where he played with All-Star talent every time he took the ice). If he was that interested in going to the big stage, why did he sign a long term deal to stay in Columbus when he could have hit the market when he become a UFA after 2009-10?

    2. IMO, the better talent aspect is a bit over-stated. As a goal scorer the key to his game is generating shots. He does that pretty well by himself already. Unless you think he’s going to start jumping up to over 400 shots per year then the effect of better talent will probably be more limited than you think.

    3. He very well could face weaker competition but he could also still become the focus of the opposition’s shutdown lines. Which means the onus would be on Gaborik’s line to score.

  217. Carp

    Anisimov will be relegated to the 3rd/4th line in the playoffs as usual no? I have a hard time believing he would be the hold up although I do agree with everything else there…

  218. Doodie Machetto on

    Cory, I took back what I said about him being a spare part. I meant in relation to their depth at center. Bergeron-Seguin-Peverly-Kelly is a really formidable group of centermen.

    And as for Chara, your argument about not being able to replace him is all the more reason Boston should go for it while they still have him. The guy is 35. I know he works out like crazy, but the body eventually breaks down. Even if he pushes it to 40, it’s still only 5 years. Thomas can probably squeeze out another 2 elite seasons since he got such a late start at the NHL level and even then hasn’t even played that many games. Hell, he might be able to get out a 3rd. Why not try and make as many runs during that time period as possible?

  219. Rask is the goalie of the future for them though. Kid is only 24 and has proven he can be a top goalie in the league. If anything you trade Thomas, not Rask.

  220. Doodie Machetto on

    CTB, I think your 2nd and 3rd points kinda hit the nail on the head. He will either play against weaker competition or one of our other scoring lines will play against consistently weaker opposition. If it’s Nash that faces the weaker competition, he won’t generate more shots, but the quality of the shots he generates is likely to be a bit greater. I think that bump will help keep his numbers up a bit more consistently through the middle portion of his contract so you don’t see the decline to sub 30 goalscoring until maybe the final year or two.

  221. I agree. I would, as a Rangers fan, rather see them trade Rask. I agree that they only have a few years with Chara and then they have to blow up and start over. So maybe they move Rask in an effort to win NOW. I think it’s more likely they move Timbo.

  222. Doodie Machetto on

    JD, Columbus wouldn’t want Thomas. Why would they want a win-now goaltender? I’m saying Boston should try and make 3 or 4 balls to the walls runs and then worry about the future later. I think if they get Nash for the package I proposed and assuming health in the playoffs of their key contributors, I’d be surprised if they didn’t win one of the next 3 Cups.

  223. I get that Doodie, but that’s in Columbus’ position. I’m trying to figure out why the Bruins would trade a 24 year old future star goalie for a scoring power forward when they already have 2-3 young ones on their team in Lucic and Horton and no goaltenders in the system?

    They lead the league in goals for. Why not take Chara’s 7.5 cap hit and spend it on another big FA d-man like they did with Chara a few years back? Makes no sense to bring in Nash when goal scoring isn’t their problem.

  224. Boston is built just like the Rangers, minus the fact that they have better offensive players. They are in our same boat with young prospects. Their oldest forward is Thornton (34) and after that it’s 31 year old Chris Kelly, neither of which is a big goal scorer for them. All of their top line players are under the age of 27.

    Bringing in Nash makes absolutely no sense for Boston.

  225. Okay — I see what ya mean there (imagine if they still had Savard?!). I just believe that going after a big name guy with a large cap hit isn’t the answer to a cup, especially if it means shipping out guys who got you there in the first place or will help you return down the road. I also think that Boston drafted Dougie Hamilton (six-foot-five, still growing!), to try to fill the eventual void after Chara’s retirement, so it wouldn’t make sense to me if they dealt him. Boston added a few small pieces last year to win the cup, it would seem out of character to blow up the roster for another run at the expense of a seemingly very bright future, IMHO.

  226. Doodie Machetto on

    First, because Horton keeps getting concussed. Second, you’re assuming there will be a big free agent D-man available to take over for Chara. Third, Thomas is better than Rask. If they want to win now, it’s with Thomas between the pipes. There’s no way they trade Thomas, if only because the teams that would be interested are potential opponents for the Bruins in the playoffs.

  227. The Bruins have an NHL ready goalie in Anton Khudobin waiting in the wings. He’s better than a lot of backups right now…

  228. Real_ESPNLeBrun RT @CanadiensMTL: Canadiens acquire B. Geoffrion, R. Slaney, and 2nd round pick in 2012 from NSH for H. Gill and a con 5th round pick in ’13

  229. Doodie Machetto on

    Carp, Columbus might make the deal without a goaltender because there are a lot of young guys that they can try and trade for in the offseason. For instance, Vancouver won’t trade Schneider before the playoffs but they might trade his rights in the offseason.

    I bet Columbus makes a strong run at Ben Bishop also.

  230. So basically, 2 low tier prospects and a 2nd for Hal Gill and a 5th. Sounds suspiciously like CABER to me.

  231. I have no problem with the Rangers getting Kubina. He is an improvement over Eminger and taking Girardi’s spot on the PP helps them as well.

    Kubina can at least get a shot on net and while he is no longer a top d-man, he wont be expected to get be one…

  232. So they would trade a guy that proved he could score in the playoffs and helped win them a cup, a 24 year old stud goalie, a top prospect that was a 1st rounder, and a 1st round pick, all of which they had when they WON the Stanley Cup last season for a player that has played 4 playoff games just so they can win now even though they have all of their top 6 forwards and core who are younger than Nash?

    Still not getting why Boston would do that trade considering what Krejci has done for them in the playoffs in their cup run and the fact they don’t need power forwards.

  233. Kubina, I suppose, would be another threat on the PP, but I just don’t see him making much of a difference. Doesn’t really have great numbers. He’d be this seasons McCabe.

    KUBER!

    Pass! If they’re going after Kubina, then maybe Sour Power is done for the year?

  234. Hal Gill is pretty much a cone. No idea how he helps Nashville. Montreal got a steal, especially bringing is Little Boom Boom.

  235. Doodie Machetto on

    If I’m little Geoffrion, I’m screaming and cursing today. SO much pressure on him now.

  236. Who else remembers Hal Gill shutting down Ovechkin and co. when Montreal made a run a few years ago? Good move for Nashville I think.

  237. We don’t need Hal Gill. He’s a defensive defenseman who has played for like 4 teams in 5 years or so.

  238. Eminger is much tougher than Kubina. Let’s stay away from Kubina please. I liked him before when he was solid on the PP, but he’s not even close to being the d-man he used to be.

  239. N.CountryNYRFan on

    Not sure if anybody has commented on this yet today, but I just read an article about a city mayoral candidate urging MSG and TWC come to a deal because of Linsanity and the Knicks and how New Yorkers were being deprived of their Knicks. Not ONE word about the BEST TEAM in hockey, our RANGERS!!!!! Pathetic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    On a side note I would be happy if the added pressure meant a deal gets done sooner. I had to watch last night’s game listening to the Hawk’s announcers, man I miss Sam and Joe.

  240. I posted a link to that above. It’s Christine Quinn who is currently the Speaker of the House but is running for Mayor. Yea.

    The release actually did mention the Rangers. Just Knicks and Rangers. No mention of Nets, Islanders, Devils, etc.

  241. I would give up a fringe d-man prospect like Pavel Valentenko and a 5th rounder for Kubina. Nothing more…

  242. Ria( the silent bonehead) on

    Well time warner cable subscribers your getting your Rangers back they settled with Dolan goodness knows how much more your going to pay for it!

  243. Doodie Machetto on

    Not gonna lie, I scrolled up to Waseka to confirm. But I was calm, expecting it to be a hoax.

  244. CTO- I respectfully disagree with you on MDZ. His offensive game took a little back seat this year by design, so he can work on his defensive game. And he’s done an admirable job in that department this year. He is more physical, rarely out of position, and can defend as good as anyone aside from first pair. While doing all that, he still leads our defense in points by a healthy margin. Once he is more comfortable, he will be given more green light to join the play. Even now, he knows when to join, his passing was responsible for most of the PP goals lately. At 21, I believe his potentials are yet to be seen. I wouldn’t include him in Nash deal.

  245. At the beginning of 2010-2011 year Kubina was mentioned as a potential candidate for Norris. At the beginning of this year, til now, the only time we hear his name is during the trade rumors. This has Caber written all over it. Who is he replacing?

  246. Bickel is number 7. Eminger and Kubina fill different roles. And I would prefer to have Stralman as a R handed shot over Kubina at the moment. Kubina’s skating ability is catching up with Caber. Stralman is very mobile.

  247. nice that having the largest cable provider in the most crowded city in the United States, I’ll be able to watch local sports teams again after two months

  248. My prediction is Nash isn’t coming to the rangers, price is to high and most likely
    won’t be traded before the dead line and if he is traded I see the Kings as the team who will get him before the dead line. There is no reason to trade Delzotto and Kreider or Erixon at this point. Nobody thought the rangers would be this good so stay the course and if possible in the off season either through free agency or trade the rangers can get a very good goal scorer.

  249. Left field, head scratching stat of the day…

    Over 75% of 2005-6 Hartford Wolf Pack ended up playing in Europe or for Springfield Falcons.

  250. Kings’ cap situation isn’t particularly rosy either. If they trade for Nash, they are certainly out of Parise sweepstakes come July. And they will be in even more serious predicament than the Rangers after 2012-2013 season with many important players to resign including both of their young goaltenders.

  251. DJK- I know, read my response to his post…I was just joining he conversation because his name keeps coming up around the web. You think I know Orr by now? :-)

  252. Sorry if this was posted already Dreger saying the Rangers are seriously considering the lowest thing CBJ will accept for Nash – Dubinsky, MDZ, Miller and the #1.

    Dont like it one bit.

  253. Kings clear a lot of space after this season. Penner cakes and Stoll and maybe LTRI Gagne. If Jack Johnson is part of the deal they have pletny of space and flexbility.

  254. To all TWC people, friendly advice, switch to FiOS the very moment you can…It is a much better service, the HD quality is clearer with more vibrant colors. And you can get high speed internet up to 35 Mbps for BOTH down and upstream. TWC and other cable companies will limit your upstream speed to 5 Mbps because they do not want you to have your own serve, you’d have to pay business prices. If you are a placeshifter and use Slingbox or Monsoon, the upstream is much more important. And, no, I do not work for cable company or Verizon, lol….

  255. “I Rarely Speak February 17th, 2012 at 4:15 pm

    where did u read that from dreger.. havent been able to find it anywhere”

    go to TSN and to the right there is a link to the video where he talks about the trade. The video you want is called “insider trading”.

  256. Peter: why does that give me that rather unpleasant feeling that Dolan has a mancrush on Nash and is about to strike?

  257. I love when someone says “seriously considering”….How does he know THAT? One needs to be in the room to hear what they are considering…

  258. If we deal Del Zotto for Nash, which I am against, we would have to 1) get another offensive defenseman on a rental for this year 2) hope Erixon is ready next year.

    You never know how they feel about these guys.

  259. Probably makes them a better team unless that means it’s Irrelavant Jody Shelley coming in.

  260. “Only a year ago people COULDNT WAIT to get rid of Del Zaster lol”

    Its almost like young players require patience, isn’t it? Weird.

  261. Bwahahahahahahhaa. His mouth needed a punching. I won’t go there with the *groin*

    If the Phlyers need another weak-groined player maybe we can give them Wolski.

  262. These next 10 days are basically going to be the polar opposite of lying in bed on Christmas Eve night.

  263. If Rick Nash punched people out and made the “go to sleep gesture” that might win me over for trading for him.

  264. Team name(C) BJ gives me pleasant, but inappropriate associations, Nash – looks like overgrown and lost in a big city Amish boy; – neah,… They just saw declining Duby this season and decided to take elevated MDZ in a mix to compensate. Hole from bagel to you instead of MDZ! How about that?

  265. For this year? Yes do to pro-rated salaries. But we’d be way over the cap next year if we tried to fill a 21-22 man roster.

    Also apparently Nash isn’t being traded until the offseason. Latest word from Dreger and McKenzie is that they feel they’d get more offers once July 1st rolls around.

  266. Oh wait, it actually wouldn’t matter since we are keeping the traded player’s pro-rated hit from the first half. It’s Friday. I’m tired. So no, pretty sure Dubi has to be involved in the trade, or Wolski.

  267. Nash is a wholesale sellout of a franchise player for a rebuild…goes to another team that feels they can rebuild around Nash. I doubt any team in contention will make a deal for Nash that would satisfy Howson and leave the buyer in a position to develop their young core players

  268. Lloyd – don’t bring those stats into here. Most people have no idea what they mean or how they are calculated (I do, but I’m going to assume most here don’t follow statistical analysis).

  269. I Rarely Speak on

    i like saber-metrics in sports.. but just because of those used in this scenario does NOT mean dubinsky is better than nash.. its kind of ludicrous

  270. they’re in the twitter feed, and if that article is going to make a statement that Dubinsky is better than Nash, it’s a good idea to know why. these aren’t terribly difficult stats to understand anyway.

  271. also, Crosby ranked 87th in Corsi a year ago, so maybe Mr. Rotter would rather have Dubinsky than him, too.

  272. Statistical analyses versus common sense and obvious facts remind me men, – masters of demagoguery, trying to convince their girlfriends that soft is better than hard, or politician, telling you that mutual debt is better than cash in your pocket.

  273. Corsi alone wouldn’t predict production or value. Catch all stat for that is GVT which is like WAR in baseball.

  274. True Blue Mike on

    IMO. The Ranger’s shouldn’t do anything but add a depth forward that will cost them a pick, like what SJ did with Moore. Then in the offseason they should trade their first rounder, dubinsky and the depth of prospects they have for number 1 overall and draft Yapukov. Then sign Parise.

  275. There’s also Corsi raw and Corsi relative to quality of teammates and quality of competition.

    Corsi cross referenced with PDO can somewhat indicate if a player is lucky or unlucky with his production.

  276. Doodie Machetto on

    Hockey is not a stats sport. I don’t buy any stats other than goals and sometimes assists.

  277. Doodie Machetto on

    The only other time I can remember is Lecavalier in ’98. Lindros was traded after being drafted but before ever playing a game.

  278. would you guys do Dubi, Sauer, Bourque, Thomas, and a 1st for Nash? you can substitute Miller for one of the prospects.

  279. It’s really not that complicated. Most of it revolves around shots and shot attempts at even strength. Given the availability of video and replay its not that hard to validate.

  280. Doodie Machetto on

    CTB, I didn’t say it was complicated or hard to validate. I said I don’t think it is useful.

  281. It’s certainly not the be all end all of a way to evaluate a player or team’s ability or effectiveness but it’s definitely something that’s catching on in the league.

  282. True Blue Mike on

    Say Columbus get’s this years first. You don’t think they would trade it for our 2012 first our 2013 first Dubinsky and Christan Thomas? I think they would be pretty stupid to not do that.

  283. I wouldn’t trade MDZ because of the lack of similar players in the org.

    You’re start depleting your depth when you deal both AA and Dubi.

  284. Doodie Machetto on

    MDZ is a deal killer for me. One of the other two I probably let go.

    I know how high everyone is on Kreider… I’m just not sold on him as much as everyone else I guess.

  285. It’s not that I’m not sold on Kreider. I’m just not sold on him being an impact player right away. A Stepan rookie year would be great. He’s more supposed to be the replacement for Gaborik when his deal is up.

  286. CTB: Unless Ryan McDonagh is going to be a 40+ point a season defenseman I’m having a hard time trading Del Zotto unless its for another offensive defenseman.

  287. Doodie Machetto on

    True Blue, actually I think they would be stupid for making that trade. Christian Thomas is a C+/B- level prospect. Dubi is coming off his worst season of his career. And it looks like we are going deep this year and possibly next, so our firsts are basically seconds. And for that “wonderful” package, they will give away a kid in Nail Yakupov who supposed to be an absolute can’t-miss superstar franchise player? Are you nuts?

  288. But I think McD could be a near 40 pt guy for the record. He’s added more offense than I expected already.

  289. Jonny D

    if the Rangers move Dubinsky, they will not only be able to resign any of their players they choose but will have around 2-3 mil in additional cap space.

    Even if they were to move Anisimov instead, they would be able keep both Nash and Dubinsky as well as everyone else (for one season at least). Although they would have to dip into the bonus to acquire anyone after that…

  290. Doodie Machetto on

    I’d be surprised if either McD or Erixon consistently contributed 40 points. Not saying they wont hit that mark here or there, but 40 points is probably more of a good year compared to an average year. I think they both round out to be about 30 point guys. 40 points is a lot from a defenseman.

  291. He’s on pace for 32 points in his first full year at 22 y/o. I think high 30s is easily in his reach assuming the team’s overall offense stays at least as productive as it is now.

  292. …”4everanger
    you do know the world is round, right…”
    No, Lloyd I’m still looking for 3 whales or elephants, to tell them, how funny are you, considering that our earth is round.

  293. But anything above 25 points from a guy like McD is gravy. Outside of Hank, and maybe even moreso because of his age and contract you could get a haul for a trade centered around McD.

  294. TRADE ALERT. A.J. Burnett is no longer a Yankee. seemed like a great guy, liked in the clubhouse, just never got it together….having said that brb Im gonna go help him pack.

  295. Oleo, we only have 1.5 of cap space now. Dubi and another player have to go or the trade can’t be completed.

  296. True Blue, I think they’d be stupid to take that deal. Our first this year and next year will be low picks. Thomas hasn’t proved he’s capable of being a decent NHL player, and Dublowsky is coming off a horrible year. It’s too big of a risk.

    Those are not the players you trade to get a first overall pick. You want their first overall pick, you have to trade Step-On, Del Z, Kreider, etc.

  297. Hooray, the trade can’t be completed!

    (AJ was not the Gomez, he actually gave a fudge while pitching.)

  298. wow, watching devils play the ducks. I don’t know what Boulton was thinking but he dropped the gloves with Parros and Parros destroyed him to the point where the ref stopped it because Boulton’s face was bleeding badly:-)

  299. I just got home – who was traded!? ORR, you need *not* reply to this query!

    I see that MSG Network is back on TWC today – they couldn’t make a deal for the league-leading Rangers, but for “Lin-Sanity”, they had to get it done – if they didn’t, both organizations would have been called “racists”…..

  300. >>>the ref stopped it because Boulton’s face was bleeding badly:-)

    Too bad Parros didn’t have Maaaaarty, Chico, Parise, Elias, Kovalschmuck, and that other knucklehead Clarkson in his clutches as well – I’d like to see them all get bloodied…

  301. “Oleo, we only have 1.5 of cap space now. Dubi and another player have to go or the trade can’t be completed.”

    Your second sentence is incorrect because contracts are pro-rated based on games. Even though the Rangers have 1.5 mil cap space right now, according to capgeek, that translates to $5,567,697 right now and that will increase after each additional game up until the deadline where it will be $6,959,621.

    The Rangers DO NOT need to get rid of Dubinsky to fit in Nash at any point for this season or next season. All they have to do is send Wolski packing and there is enough Cap space for Nash and then some…

    Y

  302. Great hockey talk today. Just catching up.

    OK, you don’t even think about trading Del Z….or Kreider…or McIlrath…

    I have a feeling that if we get Nash, it will be for Dubinsky, 2 first round picks, and Miller…anything more is insanity…

    Nash doesn’t want to play in LA. Slats can pull off something, for sure…

    I have mixed feelings on Nash. Kind of a selfish player. Usually, great players make players around them better. Not sure he has ever done that.

    He was playing a checking/3rd line on Canada’s Olympic team. He was very good defensively and he was very impressive banging the body and forechecking….he fits the Rangers system very well…Prust sayin’.

  303. …never been this happy watching the Devils and Knicks…..

    Can’t wait for Sunday….. First game on MSG on my beauty tv!

    @@

  304. NYR FAN, I wrote the exact same thing on another blog! Stopped listening to Buccigrass manage moons ago! LOL

    @@

  305. William, I read it on SNY! Didn’t mean to steal your thunder!

    Orr, Yes and Yes!! He is definitely a head-case though…. @CHARACTER@ is questionable.

  306. The Nash dialogs from earlier today. H’mmnnn. The logic was fine
    in some messages, and not so fine in others. Even internally…

    So much of what is asserted, pro and anti-, is merely guesswork.

    He will be a MASSIVE improvement (capitals theirs). Well, could be.
    And could be not. If y’wanna play the game and find out, entry fee
    is just short of $8 million per annum, six-year run, PLUS some fine
    talent that doesn’t yet carry his myths,
    and later, when y’can’t keep some more of the bright and shiny Promisers,
    because you’ve come to the glib “bridge to be crossed later” and y’haven’t
    even enough cap space for the toll.

    He can carry, create, and finish!!!! Well, that may be so – I haven’t
    seen his work at all this year, so I don’t know just how well he’s doin’
    at the carryin’ and creatin’ – but as to the finishin’ I can tell you he’s
    been practicin’ modesty. Doesn’t wanna show off this season, for whatever
    reason: tallies – seventeen. Ten and seven. And, though no small
    sample is particularly reliable, I’d give a little more credence to those
    seventeen modest from now than to those gaudy forty from way back then,
    when he was in golden prime.
    He’s the KIND of offensive guy who wins you cups! Well, again, could be,
    but for the findin’-out entry fee, almost eight unimaginables times six
    whole seasons, I don’t want the KIND of guy….I want the GUY!!!!!
    (In a very small sample, in a four-game default to the Red Wings a coupla
    years ago, he may well have created and carried the Detroits to death, but,
    alas, lads and lasses, he only finished the one. One!)

    The pro guys make good points: you have to be PATIENT and DISCIPLINED
    for long-term, consistent success in a cap system, but you can’t be so patient,
    so disciplined, that you lose the unpredictable chance to acquire a
    player the likes of which your GM and scouts have not been able to find
    for you in the
    wide open draft, decades and more, and countin’.
    So, the question: is Rick Nash really THAT player (note I didn’t say
    that KIND of player – for the critical cap hit in question, he’s got to be more
    than just a sample of something – he’s got to be the THING!!!)
    Is Rick Nash the THING? Do you wanna pay the millions to get an answer?

    I say skeptic I am, from everything I’ve read and heard (qualified by my lack of any real
    personal “take” – I yelled and screamed a few years ago, electronically, that the
    Dodgers should stay clear of Andruw Jones, for whatever length of contract, even
    while many “experts” – Sheehan of Baseball Prospectus at the time comes to mind –
    thought the contract was good business, because I had seen him play that previous
    year, and I assayed the added pressure of a new environment for a guy who’d never played anywhere else but Atlanta, coupled with skills that my baseball eyes said were clearly eroding,
    had a 3 in 5 chance of disaster – price of admission on that one 16 million plus per year.
    Result: beyond disaster) of the POTENTIAL benefits (does he score nearer to 30 than 40;
    does he help give up some of those the other end; does he score hard goals against great
    defenses in close games, or does he pile ‘em up, as he did in the Olympics, against the
    bunnies; is he really a force around the net; will he be the ANSWER on the PP, or just
    another in a long series of questions; if he really is a POWER FORWARD, will he be one in
    two years, in five years???
    It’s not whether you can do a technical cap dance that “fits”
    him under; it’s whether he will deliver “bang for buck.” Does he now, has he ever, played
    like an eight million dollar man? Will he in the Cup grind? Will he still be doin’ it three, four
    and five years from now, at that enormous hit? Bang for buck.
    In a cap system, long term, it’s what counts most….

    PS: The notion that David Krejci is a throwaway, unless something has happened to change him,
    mental or physical, is a challenge to even the widest-ranging imagination.
    He was at the heart of their Cup run. The very heart…..

  307. No worries NYR FAN, I laughed harder reading it than I did writing it ; )

    As for this Nash business, I’m neither for it or against it… I do not like the thought of losing Kreider. I definitely don’t like the idea of losing the combination of players mentioned like Dubi, Del Zotto, Kreider, etc.. I have been saying for a long time that somewhere down the road, Slats will have no choice but to trade some of these young players and prospect chips. There is no way all of these players can play on this team at the same time…. You have to upgrade talent by multiple subtractions! I just never would have thought Nash could he one of those moves.

    Wouldn’t mind the player, not at too heavy of a price…. No way I trade Kreider.

    @@

  308. Gomez with his second goal of the season! I thought he might need another year to get one!

  309. btw, did you all know that the Empire State Building tonight is in blue and orange? Ed Snider again!!!!

  310. It’s actually for Carter and the Mets, I believe, which is cool….First thought it was a Lin thing…oy. Anyway, I’m just riffing on Carp’s riff.

  311. Interesting.. all the Montreal goals tonight have been each player’s second goal of the season.

  312. Evening all,

    Jimbo,

    Mets got their colors from Brooklyn Dodger blue and NY Baseball Giants orange.

    Hard to believe they both used to play in NYC

  313. Everybody thought the Sabs would be among the top teams in the East. Everyone except for *ME*! I should be working for ESPN! Not that domestically violent dork, Barnaby, who, as far as I know, is the only hockey player to cry after a fight. He did it in a Rangers jersey, which is even more embarrassing.

  314. Beautiful, Mama! Thanks!

    Not so hard for me, Ben – my dad was a Brooklyn Dodger fan (having been born in Brooklyn, like me!) and I remember him cursing O’Malley regularly from 1957 on….he never forgave O’Malley for moving from Brooklyn.

  315. I’m hoping for the Devils to miss the playoffs this year, but unfortunately, they’re playing pretty well now, although they just gave up a tying goal to Anaheim…

  316. btw did you guys discuss the disgusting vandalizing of Lucic’s church in Vancouver by Canucks fans?

  317. What a fall from greatness Ovechkin is experiencing….half the player he used to be, if that…

  318. “AA,Dubi,MDZ/Erixon/Mcilrath and a number one gets it done.”

    Is it me or is this insane? The most I would be willing to give up for Nash is Dubi or AA, a prospect not named Krieder, probably not Erixon or Mac-Truck, and one or two draft picks. No way I give up MDZ…MZA, no problem.

    If Dubi, Thomas, a 1st and one or two 2nd picks are not enough, I’m okay with not making the trade. Getting Nash is enticing but only if we can get him on terms that don’t kill our future. We don’t need Nash.

    Don’t sell the farm. Low-ball Columbus and if they say, “No thanks.” Oh well.

  319. The whole Nash scenario is pretty exciting, I can’t lie. I’m not all that worried aboot the trade deadline. I exaggerate every year, but Slats is pretty smart when it comes to trades. Dare I say, I trust the guy???

    @KUBER@

  320. hopefully this trade deadline is more exciting than last years which was a dud…. im not too worried about Slats making trades

  321. again nash thru 2015 at $7.8 mill.

    you guys are delusional. you think the rangers are givng up 5 players/prospects for him. You are friggin out of your mind……….

    let Nash stay in columbus and since he is so good I am sure he is part of the answer to turning around that franchise along with the first pick in the draft.

    kreider and the young ranger d men are untouchable……

    i would not do this but forget about nash’s salary for a second, a reasonable trade would be aa or dubi, erixon, and a first round pick. I think that is too generous also but hey I am in a giving mood.

    erixon is a legit nhl d man who is like 21 yrs old, aa or dubi are 2nd line forwards both young and a first round pick….laugh think that is not enough. NEWSFLASH NASHS CONTRACT IS A JOKE……………………………

  322. Boom Boom Bathgate on

    authorben –

    The Mets, in the early years, also wore pinstripes on the home uniform, so that the franchise identified with the Yankees, as well as adopting Dodgers and Giants colors. Guess the bloom is off the rose when it comes to copying the Yankees, these days.

  323. That’s too dumb to read. Everyone else, don’t bother clicking. And if you do click, you’re going to come back and say “my guy Mister D told me not to click, but I did, and that was too dumb to read”. Because its dumb.

  324. Who said i won’t have goalies next season? I will! Ill probably do what wicky does in his league…have two goalies but just one starter at a time.

    Nash is coming!

  325. Boom Boom Bathgate on

    If we bring in Nash, or a Nash-type, that’s TWO high-cost acquisitions in one season, counting Richards before the season and Nash, now. Seems to me that one such acquisition per year is plenty, maybe even too much.

    The cost of all this excessive spending in terms of young talent sacrificed, plus cap space squeezed, is prohibitive. I hope Slats holds on to his wallet or is just outbid, for which I would give him enormous credit for exhibiting the discipline to draw a strong demarcation line.

  326. I watch quite a few of Bolts games, and believe me, Kubina is very very ordinary……….oh he pots a goal now and then, but hey, so does Gilroy.

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