Rangers-Flyers in review



1) So the Flyers are frustrated, losing seven in a row, including all five this year, to the Best Team in the East? Well, maybe they should stop playing all those idiots and understand that the Rangers not only won’t be intimidated, but they’ll be happy to play that type of game, any day, anywhere. And beat them at it. And that the Rangers’ bottom six forwards are better than the Flyers’ bottom six, by a lot. And that the Flyers’ best game in the season series was the Winter Classic when those clowns didn’t play. I’d love to see behind-the-scenes footage of the Rangers celebrating when they get the official lineup and see Sestito’s playing.

2) Hate to say I told you so, but I told you so. The Rangers power play  has been making small improvements the last few games. I appreciate that some of you guys didn’t want to hear that, only wanted to see results. But it’s getting better. Having said that you might want to discount the two PPGs scored on the rush, because, well, that’s man-advanatge, but that’s not drawn-up PPs. Moving feet, moving pucks, and moving toward the net, and not away from it. In those areas, they’re getting better.

3) Marian Gaborik loves playing the Flyers. So does Brad Richards. And Brandon Dubinsky. Heck, all of them. The thing with Dubinsky is he’s so good on the PK, why can’t he figure it out that he needs to play that same way, always moving, at even strength? I guess you have no choice but to move on the PK.

4) The Flyers did the Rangers some favors with all those shots from above the circles, especially on their PP. With all those Block Ness Monsters and Henrik Lundqvist in goal, that’s not going to work. Speaking of whom, how good, again, were Lundqvist, Ryan McMonster and Block Ness Monster Girardi? Jaromir Jagr spent a lot of time up there above the circles. Looked like he wasn’t interested in competing. But we’ve seen that with him during his career.

5) The Claude Giroux goal was total FUBAR (military term, google it; and in the glory days of John Muckler’s reign here we in the pressbox called it MUBAR). But first you had Staal in way deep and flat-footed. Then you had guys changing, with the longer second-period change, and doing it poorly. Then you had Artem Anisimov trying to play defense, and playing the puck against, of all people, the Flyers’ best offensive player. On top of that, you had Lundqvist making what would have been a sensational save if he had any help coming back to prevent Giroux from jamming the loose rebound and Lundqvist’s arm into the net. Fortunately all those things only added up to one goal.

6) I thought this was one of those rare games when you couldn’t blame the Philadelphia goalie.

7) The game looks a lot different for the Rangers, a lot easier, and they look a whole lot better top to bottom, when the top two lines knock in a couple of goals.

8) I think Anisimov plays a really good game away from the puck, and he’s been physical lately and using his size, and he’s a terrific skater. But this is why Anisimov needs to get to areas where he can score more goals: His GAS linemates, Gaborik and Derek Stepan are such good passers.

9) That neutral-zone penalty on Steve Eminger vs. Wayne Simmonds: Pansification.

10) Once again, here’s a shining example of why +/- is a useless stat.  Gaborik — one goal, three assists, minus-1. So those PP points don’t matter? Those four goals for which he was more than partly responsible? Don’t mean as much as a goal-against on which he was nowhere near the play or a factor in it being scored.

11) Some of you will probably hate me for suggesting this. You guys would love Scott Hartnell if he was a Ranger. Simmonds, too. Hartnell’s a bigger, better Sean Avery, minus the off-ice baggage and the polarizing effect in the room. He also, in his own annoying way, really enjoys playing hockey.

12) The last two games, we’ve seen the difference Richards can make, haven’t we? And why the Rangers (over)paid him to come here.

13) Isn’t it nearly impossible to believe that the Flys, with all their goalie issues, with their losing streaks, and their 0-5 record vs. the East Beasts, are still so close to the Rangers in the Patrick Division?

14) Let’s do this again today at 12:30. For the record, I’d start Lundqvist again. And in Boston Tuesday. Why not? You know he wants to play.

My Three Rangers Stars:
1) Ryan Callahan.
2) Marian Gaborik.
3) Henrik Lundqvist.

AP photos, above.


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  1. since JB doubleposted, I think I can say…


    CARP, such a great point about the flyers playing sestito and rinaldo. Tough guys yes.. but, TERRIBLE hockey players. Hope they keep rolling them out.

    Giroux is a beast! and so much young talent on that team.. ughhhh.. This rivalry is going to be INTENSE for the next half decade or more. If the flyers ever got a true elite goalie.. watch out. Lundqvist on the flyers=CUP!

    CARP, I think that Hatnell is such a that no matter how solid he is, I wouldn’t want him on the Rangers. Simmons, well, that is another story. That kid is GREAT. Big body, great skater, great hands. Total package.

    And to think that the pick right after Bobby Sanguinetti was Claude Giroux.. UGHHHHHH!


  2. Agree 100% on Hartnell.

    Just remember Ulf Samulson and Darius Kasperitus.
    Both despised, both loved!

  3. Boom Boom Bathgate on

    Flyers uniforms look nice, but also, a little to much “Boston” in design. Anything to get away from those stupid-looking stripes down the full extension of the arms.

  4. first of all, there is no way I would trade Dubi, kreider and a 1st rounder for Rick Nash. Yea, the reporter states that Sather has interest but I’m confident Sather wouldn’t make that deal either. The key word is “sather has interest”.

  5. The last time the Rangers looked this good on the power play was in December for a game or two….then…oh well, let’s take it one game at a time. I wouldn’t get too excited about an emerging power play after 3 games of improvement. It does stir hope that they’ve found their focus on the man advantage, but I’ll believe it when I see it. Also, I don’t know that Hartnell would be universally appreciated here, Simmonds is another story (amazing young talent.) Otherwise, nice analysis! I pinch myself when I think about how dominant the Rangers have been so far this season. LGR.

  6. Yev, I asked the same question yesyerday and got mixed reviews….i woudjt do it, too big of a cap hit for too long….

  7. Haven’t been able to watch much because of work. I did sneak in a few peeks at the 2nd period and the end of the 3rd when the Flyers gooned it up. The Rangers have a couple of stars like Gabby and Lundqvist, but the whole is better than the sum of its parts. They are playing a team game and the orchestrator of that is Torts. It doesn’t matter if you think the guy is a jerk or not. The job he’s done with this team has been masterful so far.

  8. If not for the cap hit, I would do it. Dubi a bottom six forward and an unproven college kid for an allstar forward. Yea.. Id make that deal.

    Good review Carp. Hope Torts pulls the reins in on Bickel a little, or his PIM’s will be.costly.He was.lucky not to get an extra two or a gamer against Seespool.
    He needs to pick his battles.

    Boyle-Prust and whoever make a seriously good shut down line.

  9. Dubi, 1st rounder and Kreider for Nash? Absolutely not…

    I could care less about the 1st rounder and expect the Rangers to part ways with it for a rental player but can’t give up Kreider unless you are getting a true stud and Rick Nash is no longer that kind of player…

  10. I can’t stomach ranger fans who want to mortgage the future for a top six forward when the rangers have just as much chance of winning the cup this year without one. The smart move is for sather to bring in a guy who can help who will be a UFA in the off season and won’t cost much to get and wait for free agency where you don’t give up nothing. I want to see the rangers be good for years to come and have a chance at multiple cups.

  11. I agree with ya’, Carp. Hartnall is def one of those guys you hate as an opponent but would love on your team. Ya’ see him skate away from a scrum amd give the thumbs up to a fan right along the glass? He would win the bonehaeds over for sure. Simmonds is less a pain in the A than Hatrnell but he would be a good addition to our team.

  12. i asked yesterday, what if you subbed Hagelin for Kreider in that package? Nash would be a monster on this team.

    Staalevar, how about two photos and the No. 1 star? Isn’t that a mention?

  13. I would stay away from Nash because of the contract. Also, nobody knows what the cap is going to look like until there is a new CBA and because of that I wouldn’t bring in any big contracts at this time.

  14. Carp, good point about the unreliability of the plus minus but staill not an entirely worthless metric. Richards was a lifetime minus 77 prior to joining the Rangers and he’s one of the only minus players on the Rangers. He’s a woeful player defensive player. Will Torts mold him into an all around player like he did with Gabby? I do think so.

    Stepan, on the other hand is a plus 22 on the same team and is deserving of serious consideration for the Selke. The more you watch him the more you appreciate his defensive skills. His game is so subtly efficient that at times you don’t realize what he’s doing. How many people, for example, are aware that he has 87 hits, four more than McD. He’s a wonderful player.

  15. Carp

    I would rather trade a 1st rounder and Zuccarello for a rental like Ray Whitney and go all in for Parise in the offseason.

  16. also, people don’t realize that ever since sather promoted Gordie clarke in 2007 to head player personnel for the rangers the drafting is so much better than the first 10 years of sathers regime.

  17. Tomg…ask Tomballeni how that’s working for him.
    A balance of youth is much different than collecting youth just to be young for the future .

  18. I’m not talking about collecting youths, just saying whatever prospects the rangers have which isn’t allot I wouldn’t foolishly trade for someone like Nash with that ridiculous contract in a cap era. I actually feel strongly that Kreider is going to be a power forward so i would not trade him at all but that’s me.

  19. why rip the team apart for 1 addtl star? they have Kreider on the way and this is a TEAM..

    they need to bring up a forward with the Feds injury and Bickel at forward is not a good long term move..

    Give Wolski, ZUcc, or someone a chance…

  20. Boom Boom Bathgate - FOUR CUPS since 1926 on

    You don’t collect youth “to be young for the future.” In the future they will not be “young,” they will be in their peak years together. Talented teams which are peaking do win Stanley Cups, you know.

    Acquiring and developing young talent, plus exhibiting the patience to cultivate it and synchronize it pays off handsomely. We had a basically old, downside, overpaid, mercenary team here for far too many years, so we should not so easily forget that lesson and why we missed making the playoffs, for the better part of a decade.

    This team is on the right track, now, why is the (youthful, overall) age of this team even a topic for discussion, any more?

  21. Mister Delaware on

    To build a contender, you need a few prospects to pan out at low cap hits. Stepan, Hagelin, hopefully Kreider … trading any of those guys, plus a pick, plus another top 6 forward for a great player with a greater cap hit is what you do when the window is almost closed. Ours just started to open. Bad, bad idea.

    (And Hartnell doesn’t have off ice baggage. What??? Just because it’s not talked about freely doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. There’s not a single Flyers fan who doesn’t know his deal.)

  22. Good morning, Carp!

    No trade.

    I would love to have Simmonds on the team, but Hartnell’s a different story. It would damper the joy of celebrating a win if, every time I looked at the team, I hurled.

  23. Good morning, Sally! So, you don’t think he’s an attractive fella?

    OK, maybe I’m ignorant about Hartnell … but he’s an alternate captain and definitely a leader on that team.

  24. Timonen isn’t crying first of all… the guy is a pro and he’s frustrated with his team.

    I’d love to have a Kimmo Timonen on our team.

  25. Boom Boom Bathgate - FOUR CUPS since 1926 on

    Plus-minus is interesting, in that player comparisons from different eras are enlightening. I used to think of Brad Park and Ron Greschner as being about on the same level, but then, a look at their career plus-minus records, shows otherwise. Greschner was just ok, when I thought he looked great, whereas trading Brad Park goes down as one of the biggest mistakes ever made by a Rangers G.M., even with getting Espo (and Vadnais) in return. And throwing Ratty at Boston in the same deal was also nuts.

  26. Boom Boom Bathgate - FOUR CUPS since 1926 on

    Over the years the Rangers have traded Park and Ratelle, during their career peak years, and Rick Middleton and Marc Savard during their young years, to Boston. Boston just about owes us the sun, the moon, and the stars, for our masochistic generosity.

  27. Right off the bat I have to agree with #1. I was posing the same question to no one yesterday. Why play all these goons? Sestito and Rinaldo have no place in the NHL. I thought the “goon” was to be gotten rid of? It just shows Peter Lavi-eau-de-toilette’s shortcoming’s as a coach – he doesn’t understand the difference between a grinder and a goon and he thinks that by beating people up you can get this hockey team (the Rangers) off their game. He should know better by now.

  28. #11 – you can say that again. I would take a few phlyers in a heartbeat: Wayne Simmonds, Scott Hartnell and Kimmu Timonen (aside from some of the others who, while talented, i abhor as human beings)

  29. For all you fellow TIme Warner Cable nuts, it seems like this game today is on NBC (the real NBC not versus or whatever it’s called)

  30. you’d be crazy to trade away Kreider and a first round pick for Nash. We have two right wings named Callahan and Gaborik. Where do these two play if Nash comes here?

    Would Callahan play left wing?

  31. Boom Boom Bathgate - FOUR CUPS since 1926 on

    “Youth does get older, just not always better.” lol. Make my day! What, players are peaking at 20, now? And in the tank by 27? OMG! lol.

    And this is the site where about 90 per cent of the input, before the current ascendancy toward the top of the league with a young team, was in favor of trading youth for the “rentals” and the “mentors” of the world.

    How times have changed, save for one or two old-time philosophy hold-outs who wouldn’t get it if you handed them an ice cream cone in the middle of the Gobi Desert in the middle of the day.

  32. Czechthemout!!! on

    Would not trade Kreider in any deal. As I see it, CBJ is looking to shed a large salary. Either the Carter mistake, or Nash or both. The Flyers are also in on something with the Jackets because Holmgren met with Howson according to reports. I bet the Flyers are trying to unload a concussed JVR for Nash and swindle the Jackets again.

    As for us. I would offer Dubi’s/AA , Mcilrath/Erixon, WW( cap ) and a number one for Nash. If that’s not good enough, I move on.

  33. I’m not saying it should be seriously considered, but think about this: The Rangers are atop the east and battling for first overall without a serious contribution from Marc Staal.

    I find that incredible considering how important most of us (me included) thought he was/is before all this concussion business.

    He is slowly but surely regaining form, but his absence from the top pair and basically from the top 2 pairs hasn’t at all hurt this club.

    Would you, therefore, consider including him in any deal? Could he be, for example, the principle player in a deal for Rick Nash? Would Staal, Thomas and a first for Nash work???

  34. Almost a good theory, boom boom, other than the fact that the rangers didn’t trade savard to the bruins.

  35. Staal, Thomas and a first for Nash ? I don’t think the Rangers would trade Staal straight up for Mash. Thankfully.

  36. I wouldn’t trade from defense, and if I would, I wouldn’t trade Staal now because his value would be too low given the uncertainty about his health and the way he’s struggled since returning.

    The deadline is 16 days away. He’s not going to make a miraculous recovery and achieve elite status before then.

  37. Carp: Good point – I suspect if Sather is open to moving Staal it would come in a deal in the off-season. Something has to give on the backline eventually, assuming Erixon and McIlrath are the real deal.

    And Sauer is eventually able to return.

  38. Personally, I think Dubinsky is a guy who thrives in the playoffs, I would not make any major moves right now with this team. A Hal Gill, fine, a Ray Whitney, yes, a big veteran body on the back line and a scoring veteran winger.

    Anyone have an update on Sauer?

  39. Although one could argue Nash’s value is low, too – he, like the rest of his mates, has underachieved.

    Personally, if Sather and Howsen are talking trade, I”m hoping it’s involving Derick Brassard. He might be a good fit with Richards and Callahan…

  40. Boom Boom Bathgate - FOUR CUPS since 1926 on

    fcchamps –

    You are right, good catch. Savard did not go directly to Boston. He does remain a major, regrettable mistake in Rangers player personnel mistakes in team history, however. Not quite on a par with the young Gordie Howe fisasco, but nothing to be proud of. Park, Ratelle and Middleton is a long enough list of remorseful regret, when it comes to dealing with Boston, as it is.

    Another lousy trade with Boston was sending Andy Bathgate’s fine LW, Dean Prentice to the Bruins, for Don “Buttercup” McKenney. Some redemption for that mistake was realized just a couple months later when the Maples took McKenney as part of the Bathgate – Nevin, Seiling deal the Rangers definitely came out on top of. McKenney, who had 200 career goals, was out of the NHL a year later, at the age of 29. No one really knows why McKenney’s game completely unraveled when he was in his prime?

  41. If CBJ trades Nash they might as well pack up the rest of the organization. Vinny Prospal’s goal celebrations can only sell so many tickets.

  42. Sauer is potentially in the same boat as Staal health-wise. He’s had even more problems with injuries, part of the reason it took him a few extra years to make it to the NHL.

  43. HageLinMcCalPruBoylhan on

    LETS GO RANGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Carp, would NOT do that deal! That contract is a bear, and we already have 90 million! I am eagerly anticipating Kreider being on the team

    And, just like Brashear, I would NOT like Hartnell or Simmons on this team, or truly, ANY FLYER.

  44. HageLinMcCalPruBoylhan on

    sadly i think tomg is right. I am missing Whiskey very much. i hope he fully recovers and he’s ready to rock and roll next season.

  45. I dont understand how youre blowing the team up in that trade to get Nash. Trading duby for nash isnt blowing the team up. Anyways, can you imagine Nash going to philly? That would be scary.

  46. Boom Boom Bathgate

    this is where you are wrong. Some players don’t get better with age/experience. It is not a given that players automatically improve and here are some examples for you:

    Jonathan Cheechoo, Petr Prucha, Wojtek Wolski, Michael Frolik, Bryan Little

    Sometimes young players just happen to be in the right situation and after that fail to adapt to the changes around them.

  47. Philly trading for Nash would be amusing. It would do nothing to solve their defense and goaltending problems and squeeze them with the cap even more.

  48. Mister Delaware on

    I’m with you Vogs, I’d rather not see any deal take away from the roster right now. Things are going too good with this group to risk a major shakeup (which I’d consider moving Dubinsky to be), especially when the potential downside is both killing chemistry and crippling the cap.

  49. And Nash is a very good but not great player. Not worth the cap hit.

    He’s had 1 70 point season, and as many years scoring the in the low 30 goals as he does in the high 30’s/40s.

    And for the argument that he’s never had a great team surrounding him, he already generates a ton of shots for himself, the chances of that increasing substantially if he comes to the Rangers is probably small. Look at Gaborik and Kovalchuk, two snipers that supposedly would explode moving to new teams, they pretty much put up the same numbers they always had if anything Kovalchuk’s numbers went down.

  50. I actually really like the deal and i think if times approaching 3 pm come the 27th i think sather does it.

  51. how did it work out when sather was trading prospects for supposedly veteran stars back in the late 90’s early 2000’s. Finally the rangers are building a team to be good for this year and years to come and you want to trade away probably there best prospect for a player that isn’t even a superstar making 7.5 million and a lengthy contract, OMG.

  52. 4generations 4 cups on

    Rangers are stupid enough to blow up a team whose been nothing but amazing this year. Glen will somehow work out a rental player for a ridiculously good cost. In Glen I trust.

    Doesn’t it sound weird?

  53. Keep Zucc, Kreider, Erixon, and McIlrath. I wouldn’t want to move any of those guys unless Iginla is coming…They are the future…

    Nash? Brian Boyle with hands and dekes…

    Sign Parise.

  54. Boom Boom Bathgate - FOUR CUPS since 1926 on

    If the Rangers win ONE Cup with Kreider playing a major role, is that bad? Is that failure? Your sarcasm aside, looks like you are resigned to the fact that Kreider may be the last piece in the championship puzzle for this organization.

  55. Carp pulled thoughts #1 #3(about dubi) and (ugh) #11 right out of my brain from yesterday. Why does dubi never ever seem to move his feet in the offensive zone anymore, and rely completely on his size and strength on his skates. It used to be a combination that made him so effective in the offensive zone, not just the latter attributes.

    While I hate hartnell and simmonds, they completely play rangers style of hockey, and I want to vomit.

  56. Ryan Callahan at one point was a borderline NHL player fighting for a call-up from the Wolfpack…many Rangers fans thought he was too small and too slow….Prust sayin’!

  57. Boom Boom Bathgate - FOUR CUPS since 1926 on

    Isn’t Iginla 34, now? You trade a slew of blue-chip kids for what? A 40 per cent chance of winning the Cup this year instead of a 35 per cent chance? Plus for greatly reduced chances of winning future Cups. Not the best horse-trading strategy one could conceive of. Especially considering the fact that this team, as is, plus Kreider (sorry Jonny) could win it all this year.

    Why the desperation to win it all this year? This team, left alone, will be even better – next year.

  58. HageLinMcCalPruBoylhan on

    Carp, that guy on the Knicks has to do it for more that 5 games. I wonder, with all the blowing up from the media on this guy, if they’re gonna be like a pack of wolves and eat him alive when he comes back down to earth!

    Iginla? Again, getting older, and another 7 million dollar hit

  59. Czechthemout!!! on

    Ray Witney at his age and size will get destroyed in the eastern conference. Pass!!

    Would entertain Iginla for the right price. First round pick, mid level prospect.

    Would also look at Carter even with that crazy contract for the right price. First round pick, WW and a mid level prospect.

    Brad Boyes, pass!!!!!

    Bobby Ryan is the guy I would really persue hard but again for the right price. AA , Mcilrath , first round pick and WW.

    No Kreider or JT Miller in any trade unless it’s for Malkin.

  60. Iginla and Selanne are two true HOF players that still have it…it’s rare to have an opportunity to get a guy like that…

  61. Bull Dog: the same can be said of Getzlaf, who actually has a SC ring.

    But if Parise is in the 7/1 plans then don’t expect a big acquisition.

  62. Hey Carpiniello I have a question for ya. And I apologize in advance if I repost this, but you can hardly be expected to read all 2000 posts/day, right?

    You keep on arguing that the league has turned towards “pansification” in the way they make penalty calls. Yet the NHL just came out with an article saying the amount of power plays reached a 3 decade low. They do, however, admit in the article that refs are told to be tougher with restraining penalties, so a lot of the decrease in power plays has to do with players adjusting their play.

    So, which is it? It would seem that, with less powerplays, refs can’t possibly be calling more ticky-tack stuff than they had in the past. On the other hand, I suppose it is possible that there’s been pansification, and due to players actually adjusting their play, less penalties are called. But that would also mean there’s substantially less checking, restraining, and more discipline today than in the past. I have some trouble believing that.

  63. mike, my argument is that they are calling the marginal stuff like the Eminger penalty in the neutral zone yesterday, and letting all the slashing and stuff go. And every time somebody gets hit from behind, even if the guy turned, it’s called a penalty.

    And yet they allow slew-footing, hair-pulling, stitch-gouging, leaving the bench to join an altercation, shoulders to the head, and attempting to maim somebody from behind — those guys only get fined.

  64. Boom Boom Bathgate - FOUR CUPS since 1926 on


    Who said there are never any exceptions, who said that ALL young players breaking in with a bang, go on to super-stardom or even top-6 forward, or top-4 D status?

    Fact is that in this age of metrics being used to measure peak season ability, late 20’s is the time MOST players in the major sports reach the peak of their maturity and production. Teams that are too young, relative to the peak seasons, and teams that are too old, rarely win it all, and it is hard to cite exceptions here. Baseball players peak at 27, so the scientific research tells us. This would explain the Yankees going dry from for many years, when, especially in 2005, their pitchers averaged 35 years of age, and their batters averaged 34, the big payroll notwithstanding.

    Hockey figures to have a career peak average not far removed from age 27, given its speed and reflexes emphasis, and its physical demands. So what are we arguing about here, a handful of exceptions of players who took the money and ran when they were too young to be considered mature?

    Exceptions to the rule do not negate the rule, they just re-emphasize the fundamentals that you cannot get away from. The Rangers seem to have progressed from being too old, to being too young, to where they are now – coming up fast on “just about right” from an age, experience, ability and cohesiveness standpoint.

    I would not mess with the team or the formula which put this team together for all the Iginla’s and Nash’s in the world. I want to win the Cup next year, not just come a little closer before losing the Cup this year. O.K?

  65. iWicky (Leeloo Dallas mul-ti-pass) on

    I’d do that Nash deal for sure. Kreider is an unknown NHL quantity, I honestly like the way dubi has.been playing lately, but he is no Nash, and our first rounder is likely going to be a late first rounder.

    Great review! Thing I loved about the game was Boyle and dubi dropping the mitts, prust taken out of the game with a bogus misconduct (I know why they did it…pansificatipn) and we still had Bickel and rupp to throw bombs…love this team!!!

    LGR !!!

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