Classic jersey Monday

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OK, I’m mildly curious to see the Rangers’ Winter Classic jersey — cream colored, old-school look, and throwback Rangers crest — today.

Mildly.

Of course, you guys are probably more excited than I, especially those of youse who might do exactly what the NHL/Rangers want you go do: dig deep and buy one.

Anyway, the unveiling, as you know, is at 4 p.m. on the Rangers’ site. Don’t know when they’ll make it available to the public otherwise. Good way to generate traffic over there, though, no doubt.

I just got back from Syracuse and state football championships late last night. So I’m going to be sleeping in, then pretty busy, and not at all sure I’ll be interested enough to check in on the jersey this afternoon. If I’m around and have a minute, I will.

Enjoy the unveiling.

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285 Comments

  1. Good Morning from the Hospital:)

    Another uneventful Day with many more Episodes of Kojak:) they are all on Youtube

    “dig deep and buy One ” I Love your honesty Carp

  2. The logo has been botched from the get go… nothing “classic” about a New York Rangers uniform with a shield on front, let alone that awful misshapen thing.

  3. Eddie Eddie Eddie on

    I bet humpty said a lot of byfuglien bad words in his presser ….. He has a real Tom potty mouth.

  4. Someone will get a good coach….Anaheim is primed for some sort of explosion. Not sure it’s players.

  5. Ilb, i have Seen Randy Carlyle during the Highlights, He didnt Look too happy :) What about Paul Maurice ?

  6. Buff, whatchya doing in the hospital?

    Did u jump out of a window after the Flyers game cause Dubinsky foiled your prediction?

  7. Eddie Eddie Eddie on

    Given bab’scock in det. And hitch’s cock in st. Louis, there must be a third somewhere to complete the trifecta …or a Wang even a Johnson for that matter. Is bob’s Johnson still alive?

  8. BINGO SALTY!!!! That crest or whatever it is, is one of the worst logos I have ever seen. If that thing is on the front, then the people who made that Jersey should be fired!!!! I’m sure there is more then 1 out of work person in the Arts field who could have done a better job.

  9. Just read some place that Wolski is going to start skating. What do we do with that guy? Yes we need scoring, but how long do we have to wait to see if he still can, considering he wasn’t when he left.

  10. So, the Ducks lose again – something’s gonna give there and while it’s probably first gonna be the coach, I wonder if there’s any truth to the strong rumours that it’s possible any of Ryan/Perry/Getzlaf are in play?

    I find it hard to believe, but if Perry’s on the market, Sather needs to pursue him. However, he’d probably cost too much. I’d say start with one of MDZ/McDonagh/Sauer + one of Dubi/Cally/Stepan + one of Kreider/McIlarth.

    Would you do say MDZ, Dubi and Kreider for Perry? I wouldn’t, but if the Ducks agreed to Dubi, Kreider and say Valentenko, I’d do it.

  11. Is that like classic joke Monday? Here’s a classic joke: Boudreau coaching Ovechkin.

    jim – I think most people around here would do that, given how badly Dubi and MDZ have been playing and that Kreider is no guarantee. I think those first two will come around, so I wouldn’t. Does Perry or Ryan play LW on that line? I think it’s Ryan, so he would be of more use to us.

    Cynar – And as Scotty Hockey says, we still just have a small helmet sticker and a commercial break video for Boogaard.

    Salty’s here!

  12. Spidey:

    MDZ has been playing quite well, especially lately. I’d be reluctant to include him because it would further compromise the depth on the backline, especially because there seems to be no concrete timetable for Staal’s return.

    Perry scored 50+ goals last year – he’d fit in perfectly, IMO, alongside Brad Richards…

  13. I am still trying to figure out Crosby’s response to the elbow in the head incident, or how many cross checks is he allowed before a ref’s arm goes up.

  14. Wow who to trade for Perry?? Perry is a big guy, not sure he uses it, never seen him play, but that is a tough question. To get a guy who scored 50 goals, and has been producing regularly for years is tough. MDZ has been playing well, but moving another blue liner without having Staal back is probably not going to happen. I think IF you include Dubinsky, he alone, with his upside of years to come, plus one future prospect would be all that I would do.

  15. I also saw on a couple of web sites that the Ducks won’t trade Getzlaf but may start listening to offers for the other 2. (Perry, and Ryan)

  16. I didn’t realize that Ryan is a local. Cherry Hill NJ!! Again I haven’t seen him play that much, he’s a big guy also, and has scored 30 something goals (I think) every year with the Ducks. I just can’t see moving someone like Dubinsky, plus another roster player, then include a prospect also. That’s a lot of potential your sending the other way.

  17. MDZ has improved his awful defensive game, but that’s not saying much. All of his power play points have been secondary assists, so that’s not very good since that was his bread and butter.

  18. You are kidding, right? Those are three star players, aged between 24-26, with very reasonable contracts. And you think that it’ll only take what you guys are proposing? Double that up and add an arm and a leg just to have Murray pick up the phone. I do not think any one of them is going to be moved.

  19. Of course Murray would say that – the Ducks are already mired in a murky mess; having the coach indicate he’s considering firing his coach and/or trading away an important player like Perry would only add to the mess.

    Not saying any of that will happen – just musing.

    I maintain the most realistic target is Jarome Iginla. IMO, it’s no longer a matter of if he’ll be traded, but when. It makes sense on all fronts to move him. He’s 34 and while of course he’s well paid, he’s done yoeman’s work for the Flames through his impressive time there and the team badly needs to initiate a true rebuilding phase, a phase that will mean if he’s still playing when the team’s competitive again, he’ll be in his late 30s.

    Let the guy pursue a cup with another team while he’s still young and effective enough to contribute.

    Equally importantly, what he’d fetch in return would help jump-start the rebuilding program. It makes no sense not to move him, IMO.

    And of course, he wouldn’t cost what Perry will.

  20. Dont forget the cap hit with Iginla – $7m for this year and next, so not only would it affect what you were sending back or demoting to make room for him you’ve also got to consider your cap figure for 2012/13.
    I realise we will probably be a Wolski free zone next year which may free up some space if we toss them Dubi, plus picks and/or prospects.
    Not to mention he an RW and i would say with Gabby and Captain Cally we have 2 good RW’s already and a top 6 LW would be a trade target if Darth Sather is going to use the force.

  21. UK: Dubi is a +$4,000,000 cap hit. Add in WW (who can be waived if needed) and you’re getting close to cancelling out Iginla’s wage.

  22. You must be crazy if you’d give up Kreider’s potential for Iginla. He’s over the hill now and not worth bringing in. The only pieces they should be traded for is depth. I’m not a big Dubinsky fan, but the guy fits in the system and gives Torts’ what he’s looking for. No need to give young guys away for a 34 year old over the hill winger.

    They tried doing that in the late 90s/early 2000s. How did that pan out for the team?

  23. Jonny: I’m not sure if I’d do the deal, but trading youth for veterans has it’s place, depending on where you think the team is overall in terms of being a cup contender.

    Let’s not forget the Amonte and Weight deals in 93. How did they pan out for the team???

  24. Oops and meant to add, the late 90s/early 2000s teams sucked – total screw-up in terms of chemistry, players, philsophy, etc that got Neil Smith fired and should have gotten Sather fired.

    The differences between those pathetic teams and the one we see today are HUGE.

  25. So if you feel the club is 1 or 2 players away from being a legitimate contender (and if you do, you most definitely have to agree that adding a goal-scorer winger would plug one of those holes) you should seriously consider a Dubi and Kreider for Iginla deal.

    Therein lays the key: If you don’t think they’re that close, then you keep Kreider with the hopes that he’ll develop into that goal scoring winger. Keep in mind, however, that if that happens, it may not be for another 3 or 4 years. By then Brad Richards will be 35…..

  26. I don’t think we are that close to being a legitimate contender. I think we’re getting better, a potential 4-6 team in the conference and maybe winning a round come playoffs. I still think trading Kreider right now for Iginla just doesn’t make sense based on what we need and where we are in the growth process.

    If we were a top 3 team in the conference, I’d say sure, pull the trigger since Iginla could help us get that cup short term. But I don’t think we’re ready yet.

    As for Richards, in 3-4 years we won’t need Richards to be incredible since Stepan/Anisimov will be more mature (Stepan already looks to be blooming into a top 6 player) and other guys like Callahan and hopefully Dubinsky will also improve. Then bring in the speed of Bourque and speed + offensive skills of Kreider, and Richards won’t need to worry about being a main focal point of our offense.

    Plus look at the Bruins. They kept together their young group and added a few minor pieces like Paille, Peverley, and Chris Kelly, and they won the cup last year. The one trade they did make to get rid of one of their top prospects ended up not panning out as Kaberle was pretty much useless for them.

  27. jonny: If you don’t believe the Rangers are close, then I agree, you don’t move a prospect like Kreider for a 34 year old like Iginla.

    Your thoughts on the need for Richards in 4 years, however, I don’t agree with. Yes, Stepan looks like a legitimate top 6 forward and more specifically, a number 1 or 2 centerman. AA to me, however, I’m not sold on yet, especially as a number 2 center.

    I also believe now that with Dubi and Cally, what you see is what you get (albeit Dubi isn’t a 4 goal scorer as his current production pro-rates to be). I think Dubi tops out at 60 points and Cally at 30 (maybe 35) goals. Of course, neither figure is a bad thing but I believe Dubi’s a 3rd line player and Cally’s a complimentary 2nd line winger (ie he’s not the go-to winger on an offensive line on a cup contender).

    And regarding the Bruins – you’re forgetting Nathan Horton’s key role. He was obtained for a good defenseman (Wideman) and a first overall pick (15th).

  28. >>Brucey B was fired? You guys realize that by beating the Capitals WE got him fired! Woo Hoo!

    Yet another drastic change after another sound beating by the Rangers. I did call it in the “It’s Go Time!” thread against Washington. Did I win something, Carp?

  29. I wouldnt trade for Iginla, i’d stick with the youth movement unless a deal comes along where you can move pieces that arent key men right now, or still maintain an upside.
    The thing is you wont get much return for the guys i would expect to be available (Wolski, Zucc) and i doubt we move a prospect like Kreider, Erixon, Bourque, Thomas which would be the guys other GM’s would ask for.
    At the moment the only one who seems at risk may be Anisimov, but again, is it too early to give up on him and i doubt they’ll give up on Dubi so soon after signing him to that contract.

  30. Agree with ilb

    It will take players picks prospects and half beer sales at garden to get either Ryan perry or getzlaf. The reason there age.

    No to iginla. We aren’t a player away.

  31. LMAO at Humpty picture, Doodie.

    Agree, ilb. You’re not getting one of those guys for Del Zotto, Dubinsky and Kreider. Not happening. Maybe toss Stepan or Callahan in instead of one of those, and add a first-rounder plus.

    I think Wolski is going to look fine in one of those Reddenville jerseys.

  32. So do Eric Staal and the 2 Alex’s feel guilty this morning?

    I suppose technically we got both coaches fired if Eric is slumping due to guilt over Marc’s concussion…

  33. Doodie Machetto on

    All eyes on Calgary and Anaheim now. I suspect Calgary is a coach firing, Anaheim is a trade.

  34. Doodie Machetto on

    Carp, if (when) Wolski is waived, do you think the additional cap space goes to MZA or do they keep MZA playing top minutes in CT?

  35. Doodie Machetto on

    McIlrath not invited to Canada’s WJC team’s final camp. Yup, McIlrath over Fowler coming up aces!

  36. Anaheim need better goaltending and D, would they sacrifice one of the big 3 or try and move a Cogliano/Hagman to see what the return would be? Or one of their best prospects Emerson Etem or Kyle Palmieri?

  37. Jim – fair enough. But Horton was just coming into his prime (he’s only 26) and it was an offseason move. He wasn’t picked up to be a rental piece, but rather a young top-6 player that they could keep around for many years. His cap hit is only 4 mil.

    Now if we had a deal for a young player like that, I’d definitely make a move because it wouldn’t cost as much and would be much more effective in growing the team to get to the next level. An example of a deal I would make is picking up Bergeron from the Bruins. He’s only 26, has a pretty solid cap hit, and is an incredible 2-way player. Now obviously this would never happen, but just saying that is the type of player I’d want to bring in.

    But bringing in Iginla for 1 1/2 years doesn’t help us going forward, so that’s why I’d try to avoid that move.

  38. No way you trade Kreider. The kid will be another Stepan, plus he has size and speed.

    I don’t think you tinker with this team at all right now since they’re not ready to contend. But a power forward up front is a necessity along with a big banger in the back.

    But this team has lots of potential right now. But Dubi and Arty need to start picking up their game. Arty was invisible Saturday.

  39. I suspect Zuccarello will be up when he’s ready and playing better, and that they will be able to make cap room when that time comes. In other words, if Wolski is whaled, I don’t think it necessarily means anything to/for Zuccarello.

  40. I think Iginla stays a Flame because Sutter doesnt want to be “the guy who traded Jarome away”. Besides he just re-signed two Iginla previous linemates in Tanguay and Jokinen to try and keep big Jarome happy didnt he?

  41. Izzy – I am not buying a jersey either but I want to make sure Sean Fashion Forward Avery looks great on January 2nd! Start the year off in style.

  42. Doodie,

    Fowler is one of the worst D in the league at even strength. Based on all D with a minimum of 5 games played, per 60 mins, he’s 7th worst in the league at 5v5 goals against. Whatever offense he provides, is more than cancelled out by his terrible defensive game (appx goal differential of -1.5 goals/60 min).

  43. Signin Jokinen would make me the opposite of happy….and this mcilrath over fowler thing is stupid bc mcilrath hasnt made it yet….compare them later when mcilrath is in the NHL …we all want and know wr need a crease clearing mean defenseman and when they pick the meanest one (according to a lot of scouts) people piss and moan bc fowler puts up points….but, hes terrible in own end and we dont need an offensive dman at the moment…..i think its crazy sayin mcilrath was a mistake when hes 20 and already 6’5 220 and mean…….talk about impatience

  44. I don’t think we see Zucc unless there is an injury or Dubinsky continues to not score….

    The Rangers know Zucc is a top-6 talent. However, they can’t make room for him with the current guys playing…

    So, maybe they’ll eventually put him in FedTank’s spot on Richie’s line….who knows….

    Or even like Carp said, he can play his way on to the team if he does even better in Hartford…

    I like to see Zucc get a shot and earn another contract….

  45. Doodie Machetto on

    CTB: no one doubts that he still needs work on the defensive end of the puck. But seeing as how he has become their de facto #1 pairing guy, playing 25 minutes a game, at 19, on a lousy team, I think he’s doing just fine.

    Imagine if we put MDZ on the first pair last year and rode him 25 minutes a game. He couldn’t hack it playing 19 on the third pair.

  46. Tim, 1st sorry for delay was putting up Christmas train set!! I think the Rangers are a couple of years away from being a legit contender. But they do need to do something because they have a young HARD working team, but lack the overall talent to contend for a Cup. The hard working players are great to grind out a win, but with the lack of scoring they aren’t going anywhere. If they added one or two talented scoring players they could probably contend. They can’t do that right now because of bad contracts and bad players. So once they unload some of the dead weight I can see them making a run in a year or two. Unless Sather can somehow manage the salary cap better, and find two playmaking or sniper type players maybe they could do it this year. Just don’t think he is capable of doing that, because of the dead weight contracts they are carrying. Plus Staal needs to come back.

  47. Doodie Machetto on

    Bottom line: give me the NHL regular over the guy that will be lucky to ever make it. This has Sanguinetti-Giroux written all over it.

  48. So let me ask this; Why arent the Rangers ready to contend?

    They lead the league in GAA and have given up the fewest goals so far this season

    They have a sniper in Gaborik

    They have a #1 center-man in Richard$

    They have a rock solid D even without Staal

    They have the grinders (Boyle, Prust, Fedetenko, Callahan)

    They have awesome penalty killers

    Theyre winning on home ice

    And they have Brandon-dont confuse me with Corey Perry-Dubinsky

    The only thing I feel that they are sorely lacking is a point man on the PP.

  49. Doodie – Totally agree on Fowler. If you are not even good enough to make the invite to the World Juniors in Canada than it doesn’t say much for your chances to make it in the NHL. The World Juniors are the closest and best way to see how prospects fair against the best of their peers and he didn’t even get a tryout let alone make team. I’ll take the guy who’s ready to play his 100th NHL game.

  50. Doodie Machetto on

    I don’t even need to discuss the other guys ranked above Jessiman that Sather passed on as well. Just Brown being ranked #2 and falling to you at 13 and instead you take #20 Because he was bigger.

  51. As for the Jerome stuff. He’s got one more year left at 7 mil. Doesn’t seem logical to give up important assets for a one year player who might come cheaper as a UFA the following year or as a rental.

  52. Doodie Machetto on

    Barry, the D is not rock solid. The top 4 guys are being grossly overplayed. They WILL break down as the season continues.

    Furthermore, we have a sniper in Gaborik, but he is a streaky scorer and has yet to find a consistent set of linemates to work with.

    We also lack good (any) secondary scoring.

  53. Looking through the thread…. I still don’t understand the fascination with MZA. How exactly has given any indication he’s a top 6 NHL forward. 1 pretty good season on Olympic ice in Sweden? If that’s the case, let’s bring back Christian Dube. He’s scored 50 pts. in 44 games in Bern last year.

  54. Wicky©Is staal out for the season yet?? on

    morning ILB and all!!

    You guys are a riot this morning!!

    I’m not sure which is more ridiculous …errr I mean funny, people still going “can you hear us” about BB when in fact A) they kicked our aasens in the playoff series with him as coach so clearly they were the louder team and B) people crowning kreider as untouchable when he could just as easily be the next dubi, the next brendl, or the first kreider. The same with mcilrath being great or lousy, no one knows yet, there are ideas for both (obviously mcilrath being the TC captain over some of the other “blue chippers” some of you arm chair GMs know so much about might be an indication of what the organization feels about him).

    Now, on to more serious things..

    Cynar
    that was a great link, thanks for sharing. the wild got it right, good for them. I am still a bit perplexed on the rangers “tribute” to boogey. Perhaps the rangers did something behind the scenes that I missed though, so my apologies if they have (home opener had something maybe??)

    I thought the iggy hug for boogey’s mom was just pure class on his part after the faceoff!

  55. Saw a girl outside MSG wearing a Callahan Winter Classic jersey yesterday before the game…has a nice old-school look to it but there’s nothing about it that harkens back to the beginnings of the Rangers franchise.

    If you want that, our 3rd jerseys fit that bill.

    At least it’s not the stupid circle logo that every friggin’ team is trotting out these days.

    Or the baby powder blue unis of Cindy Criesby’s Penguins.

    Tuesday’s game is on VS…I REALLY am tempted not to watch and just listen to the radio. The NHL borders on man-love when it comes to promoting Crosby. And everybody outside of Pittsburgh is sick to death of having this kid shoved down our throats like he’s the next coming of Gretzky.

    He’s not. Period. A good player. A great player. Yes. A whiny little punk who gets away with anything? Yes.

    Hope the Rangers take it to him HARD on Tuesday. Although I’m sure even if the Rangers were to win 6-0 we’d have to listen to the excuses “Well…the Penguins were bound to hit the wall after the euphoria of Sidney’s return and the Rangers were the lucky recipients.”

    NHL on VS = The Sidney Crosby show. I’m gonna go puke in my hat

  56. Other than Staal or Hank, there isn’t another player on the Rangers, Gabby included, that the Flames would even consider accepting straight up for Iginla.

  57. Well here’s my repost from last night. If you could get Bobby Ryan from Anaheim- 24 year old LW would you/could you live with dealing Dubinsky, a first rounder and 2 of the following players: Hagelin, Kreider, Zuccarello, Thomas, Bourque to get him?

  58. Doodie – I don’t totally agree with you but you are being a little harsh on the team. They are a good defensive team that will need to upgrade on D at that some point (hopefully Staal by maybe after All-Star Break) if not LTIR and a trade will happen. Gabby and Stepan have shown some chemistry so hopefully that continues. The secondary scoring thing is true if you believe Dubi has a really bad year and never gets going, but that’s hard to predict.

  59. Please stop about Iginla. The only reason the Anaheim thing is interesting is because of the age of the players in the hypothetical trade. We don’t need a 34 year old exiting the highway of his prime. Even if he scored 30 goals next year it’s the year after that and the year after that which matter. Because while the likes or Kreider and whoever are blossoming out in Clagary (kinda like Marc Savard did) we’d be stuck with a 36-37 year old with a massive cap hit.

  60. HW, it’s simple, just speaking for myself. He scored 23 pts in 42 games. Prorated, that’s about 45 points over a full 82G season (about equal to Stepan’s production). That’s pretty damn good for a small guy with limited minutes, in his rookie NHL season…..He also led the team in CORSI.

    Great teammate. Won an MVP in the SEL, not the Swiss league. His skill is evident. He has vision and passing ability that most other Rangers simply do not have. He plays with an edge. And, he improved his skating and strength over the off-season….

    What’s not to like again?

  61. As for the two coaches being fired. BB is a very good coach and will get offered almost every opening in the future. He should wait it out and pick the best chance to win. In my opinion, he’s got a better chance of winning the Cup first by going to another team than the Caps do without him. Sorta like when Laviolette turns Isles from worst in NHL to playoffs twice and then fired. Knew he’d win somewhere else first.

  62. Fowler’s -38 as an NHLer sure would look good on our blueline, right? Man, Del Zotto takes a beating regularly here. I’d hate to see what would happen to Fowls. Bottom line is that until McIlrath is in the NHL or becomes a marginal prospect, I’m not going to put any stock into any argument for taking one over the other. Looking at past drafts is hindsight, and always 20-20. Fowler is what he is, which is tied for the worst -/+ minus on the Ducks. It’s astonishing for me to read someone lament about not picking him and then start comparing the decision to grab McIlrath to the likes of Sanguinetti and Jessiman, especially after what Mac showed in camp and in Traverse City.

  63. I’m not too worried about the scoring. If anything, it’s good to have it spread out. The Flyers are proving that now (and last year down the stretch even with Carter putting up a ton of goals). People said Boston couldn’t score enough and they had no problem getting contributions from every line last year, something we’ve actually been pretty good at both last season and this season.

    The main thing that they’re lacking is consistency, which will be proven later on in the year. I think it just comes from having young guys on the squad who need playing time to adjust. We’ve seen games from these guys where they’ve been solid for most of the 60 minutes and then followed up by complete stinkers like in Montreal. If they were a top team in the conference, they wouldn’t be THAT inconsistent in the effort. Sure they’d have off nights, but not 4-0 losses where they were completely outplayed by a crappy team on off nights.

    Also I don’t think we’re saying the team can’t contend this year, it’s just the fact that it’s not worth bringing in a rental when it’s not a sure thing that they can contend.

  64. Doodie Machetto on

    “At least it’s not the stupid circle logo that every friggin’ team is trotting out these days”

    I love circle logos. Not all of them work, but for the most part, I really dig them. Chicago and Minnesota are my favorites.

  65. I can’t believe I am going to post about a Jersey but I think, and hope, our Winter Classic Jersey should be a road version of our Heritage 3rds. Just make that exact sweater in a vintage cream color. Roll with it.

  66. jim – certainly you don’t not do those trades(Amonte and Weight) knowing the results(a cup in 1994). But imagine the 1994-1995 Rangers with those two in the lineup. Hell, just imagine the 1993-1994 Rangers with Weight, who nailed like 80 points that year. If you take the certainty of the cup our of the equation, that’s a damn good argument to convince a team to hold onto its assets.

  67. Wicky©Is staal out for the season yet?? on

    Man, you guys kill me!! Fowler is NOT what the organization was lacking in that draft year. The organization is lacking big strong crease clearing physical d man and I am not the only “head case” to notice this (not by a long shot). Fowler is nothing more than stralman. He is horrible defencively. Torts would have sent him to the minors in a heart beat. Different organizations different opportunities folks!!

    After Gudbranson in that draft year and the first few picks(gudbranson was the best d man in that draft year IMHO) the rest of the top 5 to 25 picks were a bit of a jumbled mess depending on who’s ratings you were looking at. The fact that the rangers picked a player that filled an organizational need seems pretty logical unless of course you are one of cam fowler’s immediate family and live near Hartford CT and would like to see him more!

  68. I’d argue that from what 24/7 showed us, Boudreau is not actually a good coach. I’d argue that his inability to even contend for the cup with that team would also be the proof of that, but maybe I’m wrong.

  69. NYR_FAN – Most of those points were assists, which is fine, but he’s not exactly this potential great goal scorer. Secondly, I never like the idea of prorating numbers. With his size, he’s way more vulnerable to an injury or wearing down. Yes, he might be a great teammate and he’s fun but to say he’s a top 6 forward when he hasn’t played 50 NHL games and has only 6 goals in them a bit much.

  70. Doodie Machetto on

    oh no, Fowler is a minus! Marek Malik led the league in plus minus once. He must be a great defenseman!

  71. Wicky – Fowler is about 100x better than Stralman. I agree he wasn’t necessarily needed, but the kid is going to be very good. People forget though that MDZ was just as highly touted as him, the only thing that kept him down was his “work-ethic”.

  72. Doodie – Thanks for pointing that out. I was just about to say that all the people that claim Fowler’s +/- is bad were the same ones saying that +/- didn’t matter when it came to Malik.

  73. Wicky…. While Dylan was home left out of Team Canada, I watched on NHL Network Cam Fowler (along with Stepan by the way) dominate the tournament. That’s why I wanted him because I had seen him play and knew he was going to make it right away. Watching that draft, I couldn’t believe people kept passing on him and everyone at that TSN table thought he shouldn’t been the pick and Dylan was not ranked as high on their boards.

  74. Brucey changed the entire core philosophy of that team WAY too many times. He also changed his coaching style too much. That’s why he got bounced.

    It’s also why Torts is a good coach. He picks a philosophy and sticks to it and molds the team to it.

  75. Doodie Machetto on

    Phil Housley was a career -52. But I suppose his 1263 points aren’t worth Marek Malik’s career +145.

  76. This MZA stuff is the same thing went on with Prucha and he certainly has proven to be a top 6 guy. OH wait, he’s back in Russia after never repeating that 40 pt. season. In fact, his next best year was 20 pts playing 79games for PHX, but that must have been the coaches fault.

  77. I hate enjoying other player’s injuries. Not a good way to go. But this particular guy, I have trouble feeling bad for…

    NHLFlyers Philadelphia Flyers
    Paul Holmgren on Chris Pronger: Chris will have surgery on his left knee tomorrow afternoon. We expect Chris will be back playing in 4 weeks

  78. Doodie,

    But being a vital part of the 3rd worst D in the league on a team that’s off to a terrible start doesn’t seem to me that he’s doing fine. He’s overmatched as a first pair D and he’s part of the reason why the Ducks are where they are now.

    As for Del Zotto he might do just as badly in Fowler’s role but thankfully the Rangers don’t need to put him there.

  79. C’mon, HW. Do we have a real argument here? Prucha had Jagr.

    Who did MZA have?

    By the way:

    Stepan 2010-11 82 G – 3 PPG 7 PPA 10 PPP

    Zuccarello 2010-11 42 G – 0 PPG 9 PPA 9 PPP

  80. Blaming Fowler for being a minus on that team? Has anyone watched their games? Steve Valiquette would be stopping more pucks than Hiller. There are AHL goalies watching that going, “Am i’m not in the NHL.”

  81. NYR_FAN – Zucc has 3 goals in HARTFORD! John Mitchell had 7!! Did he have the same bad teammates because Mitchell managed to find the net. Is Mitchell a top 6 forward now too.

  82. NYR_FAN – You are good fan. You are not really comparing Stepan to MZA are you? Seriously, one guy the coach just called the best all around player on the team. The other guy was being outscored by John Mitchell in Hartford and by the way, Audi-Marchessault has 7 goals. Shouldn’t he come up too!

  83. Wicky©Is staal out for the season yet?? on

    HW
    While I agree with you 95% of the time, welcome to part of the 5%.

    How may big physical d men get picked on WJ squads overall? Just curious here about the international tournament. I mean it means absolutely zippo in my book that he wasn’t picked and it does not concern me in the least. Would it be a great experience for the kid? Sure!

    If you ever listen to the kid talk, he knows he needs to improve his offencive skills to be a complete player and every single article/interview you can find on him indicates he is doing just that. A lot of other teams passed on fowler just like we did.

    I wonder if their fan blogs are lighting it up crying about not picking a d man in the top ten that would be subsequently just hammered by those very same fans for his defencive ineptitude during the season? I highly doubt it and for sentimental reasons for many of you, lets just cut to the chase here, he is not the 2nd coming of leetch (no one ever will be) so just let it go!

  84. Wicky… You are right. We usually do agree 95% of the time because I think we are both fans of the physical nature of the game. And you are right that 95% of the time I’d always take the more physical player. Heck, right now I’m making the case why Mitchell deserves to up wayyyyy more than a MZA does. I guess I am on this more because I watched that tourney when they won the gold and he and Carlson on the points with Stepan at Center was really good. Usually, you are right, it’s hard to really know all the prospects for the draft. Maybe this one is different for me because I liked during the tourney and checked on his stats rest of season because I thought we had a shot at him.

  85. Wicky©Is staal out for the season yet?? on

    HW
    that tournament is NOT the NHL. I enjoy that tourney very much, but again the WJC is not the NHL and the world championships every year at the end of the season (another tournament I enjoy) is not the Olympics.

    Jonny D
    you are taking the stralman comment out of context. They are both basically offencive d men with defencive liabilities…I can pick another name if you like?

  86. HWirth,

    So what was the excuse when Fowler’s on ice goal differential at 5v5 was still over -1 per 60 mins when the Ducks goaltending was better, particularly when Hiller was healthy?

    I think the kid is talented, but it seems like its exclusively on one side of the ice. He’s Jack Johnson 2.0

  87. The tourney is not the NHL but it is the closest you get to see these kids in the highest possible level of competition short of NHL.

    This Team Canada looks like a pretty good roster to me.

    2005 World Junior Ice Hockey Championships
    Head coach: Brent Sutter
    Goaltender
    Rejean Beauchemin
    Jeff Glass
    Defence
    Cam Barker
    Shawn Belle
    Braydon Coburn
    Dion Phaneuf
    Brent Seabrook
    Danny Syvret
    Shea Weber
    Forward
    Patrice Bergeron
    Jeff Carter
    Jeremy Colliton
    Sidney Crosby
    Nigel Dawes
    Stephen Dixon
    Colin Fraser
    Ryan Getzlaf
    Andrew Ladd
    Clarke MacArthur
    Corey Perry
    Mike Richards
    Anthony Stewart

  88. To the people who would have preferred Cam Fowler, I’ve got news for you, we already have him and his name is Michael Del Zotto. Fowler and MDZ are cut from the same cloth. If you don’t like Del Zotto, then the same would hold true for Fowler. And, let’s not forget, Fowler’s offensive numbers (which are not great BTW) have been aided quite a bit by playing with players such as Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan, Selanne, and Koivu. I’ll wait for the wrath of Mcilrath ’cause the upside that he can eventually, and hopefully, bring to this team far outweighs what Fowler could. If he’s a bust, so be it, you just move on.

  89. Wicky©Is staal out for the season yet?? on

    HW
    I think the WJC favors offencive minded players. If you have a very skilled offencive player with a mean streak (think rick nash), then you get some physical stuff as well. If not you have guys like fowler, who as a d man with offencive skills is going to flourish in an underage tournament like that especially with forwards that aren’t exactly at the NHL level yet with their defencive responsibilities.

    Fowler is a one dimensional player who is probably (I say probably) not going to be anything more than that. For every point he gets in the NHL he will probably be responsible for giving it right back at some time during the game. Clearly we are not the only team that thought that and not only was he not the first D man taken in the draft, he was not the second either.

    I really respect the fact that you like him, he just really does not seem to fit the mold or style of d man that this coaching staff or organization is looking for or building with. Last I checked, most here liked the way the coach was doing things and know fowler would not work with him at all!

  90. CTB – Look I hope McIllrath comes up and becomes the next Jeff Beukeboom or Ulf Samuelsson with that size but right now I see Fowler playing 25:00 NHL minutes a night and McIllrath playing in the Traverse City Tournament.

  91. Wicky, Sergei Zubov was far from the best defensive defensemen, but his offensive abilities made up for that. You have to pick your poison with those guys and it all depends on your needs. We had MDZ already, so we wouldn’t necessarily need Fowler, but if we needed an OFD, I’d definitely take him.

  92. I have been reading a lot of “the Rangers are 2 or 3 years away from contending” on here today. do you figure that is why they signed Richards this year? because the Rangers think they are still 2 years away from contending? the Rangers are in it to win it this season. chances are you are going to see them move a few prospects for either a scoring LW, or a top 4 Dman. to me, anything less than then playing in the conference finals this season would be a disapointing.

  93. From Wiki:

    “In 2004, Dawes led all players with six goals to go along with five assists in six games, tying for first with 11 points.[2] Two goals and one assist came in the gold medal game against the United States, after which Dawes was named as Canada’s player of the game. He registered two goals and four assists in six games in 2005.”

  94. Wicky … I forget which guy I heard say it when referring to McIllrath, might have been Danyeko on HNL, but to your point he did say physical defense do take longer to develop than the skill offensive minded guys because they need to grow into their body so they can throw it around in the NHL. So yes, it is too early to tell.

    And yes, Fowler and MDZ are the same type of player so hopefully MDZ and McIllrath will one day be a d-pair.

  95. Doodie Machetto on

    “As for Del Zotto he might do just as badly in Fowler’s role but thankfully the Rangers don’t need to put him there.”

    That’s exactly my point! Fowler wouldn’t be such an enormous minus in NY.

  96. Wicky©Is staal out for the season yet?? on

    HW
    nice list for that season. Would you not agree that all of the d men on that list have more offencive upside at that point of their JR careers than mcilrath? Also, most people say dion is way overrated now correct? Barker has bounced around and hasn’t really found a home, coburn I like a lot and would love on my team, but again had more offencive upside at that point in his JR carreer, weber as well, and seabrook for sure.

    Where are syvret and belle at this point? how about dawes, dixon, colliton? WJC does not make a NHL career. How many guys never played in a WJC that are all stars or even HOFers?? How many WJC players were drafted in the first round and had marginal NHL careers?

  97. By the way, I love all this Sather love. Zucc is going to be a top 6 forward. McIllrath was a better pick over Fowler. Prucha was a great find. MDZ is going to be really good. Look at the great job he’s doing. Oh wait, we are not allowed to give the GM the credit for the picks he makes because the players win and the gm and coaches lose.

  98. Wicky©Is staal out for the season yet?? on

    HW
    that is my whole point, it is too early to tell with mcilrath and he could be a fan favorite for 10 years or bad pick, but based on what the organization lacked he was the best choice at that spot. It does not help that some of these arm chair GMs that really have no idea what they are talking about but see fowler play last year in a different organization with different opportunities instantly think he is the better NHL career player. Ridiculous.

  99. James,
    I would offer AA, Dubi, Christian Thomas and a pick. it would probably take more, but I would try to stay away from trading Kreider, Miller, or Stepan.

  100. Wicky… That’s not unfair. I was basing this one on seeing a young undrafted kid playing really well in the WJHC and start following him, so there is no doubt I am biased on this one. I know that going in.

  101. Wicky©Is staal out for the season yet?? on

    HW
    With some opportunities, in the right organization MZA could be a top 6. Mcilrath at that point was the correct pic over fowler (i would have picked gudbranson if he was available there), MDZ is a 3rd pair d man at best at this point, scouts usually should get credit or blame for picks, not GM, single game losses should be attributed to players, losing streaks are all on the coach, free agent signing and trades are on the GM!

  102. Wicky… You are right. But you are aware, I am referring to the Fire Sather crowd who in their next breath shoot you down when you say one of our prospects isn’t as good as we think. If all of our prospects are going to be good than Sather does deserve some credit.

  103. Wicky©Is staal out for the season yet?? on

    HW
    Nothing wrong with being a fan of a guy at all, I actually think it is pretty cool to just say hey I like the guy. I want him because I like him (not saying he doesn’t deserve to be had or isn’t a good player, I don’t mean it like that).

    I don’t really put favoritism in who I want on the rangers, I base it on team needs only.

    I usually say will over skill, less of a gamble!

  104. Wicky- The GM does make the final call on the pick based on what his scouts tell him. The GM does get blame or credit for the prospects as well.

  105. Doodie Machetto on

    Wicky, it’s not that McIlrath won’t be on the team. He is not considered by Hockey Canada to even be in the top 14 defensemen in juniors. That’s a lot of guys to be behind, especially in his last year of eligibility at that level, and especially since those are only guys from Canada.

  106. Contending this year would be great, but it’s not going to happen with the salary cap. Unless we can unload some heavy dud contracts we are stuck. Even if we buy some of them out, it still won’t leave enough for them to pick up a scoring winger, and or another solid D man. I would love to see them contend this year, but they have an over achieving defense that I don’t believe will hold up all season. (of course I could be wrong, but if you ask hockey people this is the current thinking) Plus they have great grinders but no real secondary scoring. The Stanley Cup Rangers who weren’t the top scorers all had 20 plus goals. I’m almost positive but almost the whole team had 20 plus goals. Without a solid secondary scorer you can’t win the Cup. Gaborik is a streaky scorer (good player not knocking him) but his goals come in bunches usually. Unless someone else steps up, or they can straighten out the salary cap, they are stuck.

  107. Wicky…. You are right. Will over skill is true. Heck, my ideal team would have guys like Lucic, Hartnell, Prust, Dustin Brown, Darcy Tucker, David Clarkson, Ken Linesman etc. You know… the “I’ll score than fight ya on the next faceoff.” crowd.

  108. Doodie Machetto on

    “I would try to stay away from trading Kreider, Miller, or Stepan.”

    I’d gladly trade Step and Miller, especially Miller. We will be lucky if all three of them combined have as many career goals as Ryan. Kreider is the only X factor because of the tremendous jump in his play this season, although, he’s taking a lot of lazy penalties.

  109. Trading Stepan at this point is absolutely stupid!!! He is starting to show a great upside. Let’s let him play for a little while longer before we move a talented kid like him. I think he has more upside then Dubinsky at this point.

  110. Bulldog- my untouchables in that scenario are Kreider and Stepan as well. I’d prefer to hold onto AA but because of the age of Ryan you can’t call it a deal breaker if they wanted him in the package. Way I see you- you know what you’re going to get from Ryan and it’s probably a whole helluva lot more than you’re going to get out of whoever they draft in the first round next June and it’s not any less than what we’d ever get from anyone included in the package.

  111. Doodie you may or may not be right about Stepan. But to me the problem with that is you are opening a glaring hole to fill a glaring hole. We didn’t know who the centerman of this team could be for the next 10 years. Stepan is making his case. You want Ryan to add to that. I don’t see the point in exchanging them.

  112. bob us adults are trying to have a big boy conversation about hockey. can you go be you somewhere else today? k thanks.

  113. iWicky (Leeloo Dallas mul-ti-pass) on

    Doodie
    Again, I don’t really see that as Abadan thing considering the style of player he is. Nor do I find it shocking or distressing.

    The only reason I see any significance to that at all is if you (don’t me you personally) are one of the people who wanted fowler and are using it as a feeble attempt at see told you!

  114. I think this organization would be absolutely NUTS to trade away Stepan. The kid is young and legit. His chemistry with Gaborik is quite remarkable.

    Bobby Ryan is a heck of a player and although it would hurt to give up AA I might be willing to put him in the package.

  115. James,
    if you see Stepan as the number 2 center, and a better player that AA (I do). then having AA as an untouchable is a mistake. AA was handed the number 2 center role, and promptly coughed it up. as a LW he has been OK, but he is just the 3rd wheel on that line and easily replaced.

  116. The big question is, why the HELL are the Ducks trading Bobby Ryan, at the age of 24, who has scored 30+ goals, while hitting career highs in assists and points in each of his last three seasons.

    I missed have missed something, right?

  117. iWicky (Leeloo Dallas mul-ti-pass) on

    Jonny
    I agree with you. I’m not really trying to embarrass LW here due to his consistent man love for Witt and/or exelby, but if our d corps had those two guys and say Bueke and dale Purinton it, then picking fowler at that point would have been a no brainier and the correct choice.

    Again, can’t pick your favorite player, have to pick best player for the organization at that time (if he ends up being your favorite too, then it’s a bonus)

  118. don’t know that they are Orr, but the Ducks have not won many games lately, and it is fun to speculate. kind of like posting fake trades.

  119. Wicky©Is staal out for the season yet?? on

    I get the feeling that the caps lockerroom was quite divided (and still is). I think the majority of the players were on BB’s side but the alexes were not and the superstar won out!

  120. Wicky©Is staal out for the season yet?? on

    ngreenberg Neil Greenberg
    #Caps Hendricks too RT @jackandersonIII: Consensus in room is players didn’t execute and it cost Bruce his job. Laich was especially upset.

    ovi the coach killer??

  121. Wicky©Is staal out for the season yet?? on

    opposing teams must love to play at MSG, crowds always sound like they suck on TV

  122. ORR

    you lucky bastage! 7-0! My goalies screwed me royaly last week. First bryzgalov gets pulled in the first, then i start Bryzgalov over Howard and Bobrovsky gets the start and THEN Lehtonen gets hurt in the middle of the game!! fargin cork-soakers!

    i’ll get you next time ;)

  123. goalies are way to valuable in the league. so is managing the team for that matter, because I stink.

  124. Trade Stepan? That’s nonsense. And yeah Fowler is good with the puck but man oh man, if how he played defensively last night against the Leafs is how he plays most nights, OMG, Tortorella would have his head.

    On one Leaf goal he literally stood by watching the Leafs buzzing around – he didn’t even try to stick-check the Leafs.

  125. wicky

    too few goalies in your league :P im 7-0 in your league!

    goalies are 50% of the team…so yes, they are very valuable.

  126. By looking at all the post, I think most agree that Stepan is growing, and is still impressing us. Look at that saucer pass he made to Gaborik the other day. To much to give up on so fast. AA on the other hand, like someone said, he’s coughed up all the opportunities he’s had to move up in the lineup. He still has upside, and of course the Ducks see this to, but he could defenitly make an attractive package with Dubinsky, and a minor leaguer, and/or a pick?? Don’t you think that would be attractive?

  127. BTW, while it’s true McIlrath didn’t get an invite to the Canadian WJC team, Christian Thomas did and that despite an underwhelming season so far statistically, in part due to his 10 game suspension for checking to the head.

  128. Re Ducks considering moving Ryan (or Getzlaf or Perry): They’d want a package of players/picks/prospects in return – that’s what you do when you’re looking to initiate a rebuild and you’re moving an asset of that value. A 1 for 1 doesn’t make sense (unless they are discontented with whomever they’re moving).

    A 3 for 1 makes sense, of course the 3 being the key. AA, Dubi and MZA – would that do it?

  129. Duncan Siemens , the 10th overall pick in this years draft, also did not get an invite. I think that goes to Wicky’s point about the type of Dman they look for in these tournaments.

  130. i would gladly trade mza in a heartbeat. i think he sucks. too small cant play in his own end. glad hes playing for whale. cant have hagelin and mza together on same team.

  131. Wicky©Is staal out for the season yet?? on

    orr
    speaking of trades, still no hagelin on most recent NHL12 update…boo, but anton fowler is now on rangers roster

  132. Doodie Machetto on

    The Ducks aren’t dealing Ryan. It’s just everybody else salivating over what has value there. They won’t shake up their franchise like that. Too young to panic. Selanne, Koivu, and what’s left of Blake are gone next year. Their star forwards are young enough that they have a good window to continue to build. With an extra 12 million in cap space, they can bring in some help on defense.

    Figure they ask Selanne and Koivu to waive their NTCs. Failing that, they probably deal Parros or Ellis.

  133. Wicky©Is staal out for the season yet?? on

    bull dog
    thanks and yes we should trade them but they probably wouldn’t bring back more than a 4th rounder and a used nigel dawes jock strap

  134. Wicky©Is staal out for the season yet?? on

    blake…one of my top three least favorite players in the league

  135. Doodie Machetto on

    bull dog, if in a couple of years McIlrath’s upside looks like Sanguinetti’s, then yes, you make the 2nd round pick trade again.

  136. Got work to do. Probably won’t be available during the great unveiling. You guys can handle it. I’ll catch up later.

  137. Doodie Machetto on

    Carp, yes, he was right about the noise. The difference is their arena was even quieter pre-Ovechkin. It’s a bunch of bandwagon fans.

  138. Doodie,
    at the time of the draft, heck even right now, McIlrath made more sense for the Rangers. even if he becomes a bust I will still feel that way. the Rangers need to add toughness to the backend, they may have to wait a few more years, but McIrath is a tough kid.

  139. Doodie Machetto on

    bull dog, I have a philosophical difference with that thinking. You don’t draft for need. You take best available. Then you deal from depth.

  140. Bruce will be employed by the week’s end. He will be back in the Garden at some point for some more chanting.

  141. I normally feel that way as well Doodie. like the Giants drafting Carl Banks, when they already had Lawrence Taylor. but in this case the need for toughness is to great to overlook. I don’t know if McIlrath is going to the next Jeff Beukaboom, or one of a long line of big Dman who don’t make it. I still think he is worth the risk.

  142. Doodie Machetto on

    I still think that it is something that can be brought in from the outside. Suppose we had drafted Fowler. You don’t think we could pick up Luca Sbisa by dangling a puck moving defenseman? Hell, we wouldn’t even have to give up Fowler or MDZ. We probably could get him for Erixon.

  143. on Cam Fowler and the plus minus stat. I agree that it can be a misused stat, but in Fowler case last year it was pretty telling. Fowler was a minus 25. on the same team and same position were Visnovsky (plus 18) and Lydman ( plus 32). with the exception of Koivu ( minus 8) all the big forwards on Anaheim were plus to big plus. so I think you have to look at Fowlers minus as a very real stat.

  144. the Rangers D was just to soft at the time Doodie. they still are soft on the back line, though not nearly as soft as they were.

  145. Doodie Machetto on

    bull dog, yes, it was telling last year. But the guy was a rookie and nobody ever said he was a great defensive stopper. In year one, MDZ was -20 while Redden was +8. Rookie offensive guys get scored on, a lot.

  146. McIlrath did tweak his knee a couple of weeks ago, it might be a factor in him not being selected.

  147. Ouch, Latona. Brucey has quite a resume and is now a legitimate and available coach in a season where many teams are looking to fire coaches.

    Where there is wing sauce, there is Bruce.

  148. Hey, I wouldn’t necessarily mind working at one of those stands. Garden dogs are outrageously delicious, so everyone who you serve is extremely delighted at the service you are about to provide them with. As long as you do your job, you’re a generally well-liked individual if you ask me. Plus, all the Rangers games!

  149. That’s a good point, Latona. I would want to work somewhere I could watch the action though. Maybe I could be a penalty box operator guy.

  150. Doodie Machetto on

    bull dog, the personnel hasn’t changed. Unless you count Woywitka, Eminger, and Erixon, everybody playing for the team now was in the system then. They had also had V-Tank who was supposed to be a heavy hitting, crease clearing guy.

  151. im assuming the jerseys are going to be horrible although usually the Rangers are good with these sort of things…

  152. shocker, Rangers making us wait and wait while promo-ing the Winter Classic and probably everything else they can promo before this “4pm” unveiling … even made their players tweet it.

  153. Anybody have a link to a photo of the Jersey? I don’t know why I have to see it NOW, NOW, NOW but I can’t watch a live stream at work.

  154. the flyers jersey is awesome. Ours is terrible. I mean the back looks real cool but the front is pretty bad…

  155. Doodie Machetto on

    I like the striping, especially at the top near the shoulders. I’m with Orr on the logo shape though. It is just waiting for photoshopping.

  156. The flyers jersey is awesome b/c its practically the exact same thing is their regular jerseys just a little tweak in the colors.

    That awful looking one they have when you search for it on google is a fake

  157. liked how Girardi got Al back
    by interrupting him
    missed what he said.

    (think there’s going to be throwdown once the cameras/sound
    were turned off?)

  158. Doodie – There’s a reason Fowler is -38, and it ain’t because he’s a good defenseman. Pining for the guy over McIlrath is just ridiculous, especially sense you really don’t know a thing about McIlrath yet. Saying he’s not picked for Team Canada is evidence that he’s worthless is even worse than putting sock into the plus-minus statistic.

    Also, remember the Rangers had Del Zotto with 37 points in 2009-2010. And you’re going to fault the team for not drafting a guy that put up basically the same stats last year? If you really want to get on them for a draft mistake, it was not taking Nick Bjugstad with that 10th pick. That kid is going to be a solid top-line center in a few years.

  159. eric – If you’re going to just say “x player sucks” with no reason, then I’m going to have to say you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. All of the guys you listed will be NHLers sooner than later. To bag on a kid like Miller now is just foolish.

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