A friend of mine, Alec Wilkinson of The New Yorker—who is as good a writer as there is on this planet, the kind I could only dream to be—is a big Rangers fan and has done stories throughout the decades on the Rangers and hockey.
Here is his entry on Derek Boogaard, and the role of the enforcer.
Great piece. Thanks for the link.
Isn’t “Tyler Biggs” the crackhead character on Chappelle show?
I AM A RANGER….
I AM A BOOGUARDIAN
Nice story Carp…thanks for sharing
That was a really good read. Thanks.
Carp, do you agree with your friend when he says:
“For out-and-out body-maiming violence, nothing approaches football, of course, or boxing, but hockey fights can be difficult to watch. I enjoy them (sometimes) when they are retributive, when a grievous infraction has been overlooked by the referees, and one bruiser confronts another. But I wouldn’t miss them if they were taken away from the sport.”
If they take fighting out of the sport, the league will be opening up a new can of head-shot worms.
Frist, I have often shared my views on fighting. I like the fights as much as anybody … but I wish there was a way to eliminate the staged fights that prove absolutely nothing, the goon vs. goon for no reason fights. If Ryan Callahan wants to fight Matt Cooke or Ryan Kesler because of something that happened in a game, I am all for that. I just wish there was no longer the need for enforcers, especially since they no longer prevent or deter anything that happens on the ice. Simply, if Daniel Carcillo, for example, wants to fight Marian Gaborik, there is nothing a Boogaard-type can do. Carcillo would never fight Boogaard or another true heavyweight, and the heavyweight couldn’t simply jump a player; or would face suspension if he did.
I am of the belief that you settle things immediately when they happen … as the Gaborik-Carcillo incident should have been settled. Or you run their players or their goalie. Having a heavyweight try to settle it is a useless, outdated idea.
I won’t go on and risk boring those who have read my views before.
Fighting will always be a part of pro Hockey. It’s just how it is…they even have fights in the pansy-Euro leagues :P
Guys like Gillies and Carcillo have no place in the NHL anymore. Even Colton Orr makes dumb, sensless plays. These guys just look to start trouble…and often, they do more harm to their team than good…
Cooke can actually play hockey so I won’t say he is uselsss…he is a bottom feeding piece of cooke, though
I agree with you, Carp. One-dimensional “enforcers” are no longer neccessary in this League. You need guys who can scrap, but they need to do more to help their teams than just that…take Brandon Prust for example…
Have I mentioned how much I enjoyed it when that piece of cooke Carcillo cost his team a game—an elimination game—by taking a bad penalty?
My simple solution, eliminate the suspension for the enforcer that jumps in on the carcillo/gaborik issue!
I thought you liked Cooke and carcillo?
Carcillo definitely has a place in the NHL. But, I can agree on Gillies. Carcillo has some skill, and has worth. Gillies is just a pure goon who can’t play the game.
“My simple solution, eliminate the suspension for the enforcer that jumps in on the carcillo/gaborik issue!”
So why not have an enforcer on every line to just jump every superstar on every shift?
Agree. Get rid of the stupid instigator penalty. Fighting will be a part of Hockey. Fighting IS a part of hockey. I agree with Carp that the dumb goon vs goon fights that are completely unrelated to the actual game occurring are dumb but sometimes fighting is necessary. Keep it.
Carp, thanks for sharing. RIP Boogey.
Getting rid of the instigator only invites more Carcillo vs. Gaborik, except it would be Shelley vs. Gaborik.
And this time, Gaborik won’t be the guy who drops the gloves first.
you can’t drop the instigator because of the old Flyers and, before them, the old Bruins.
But you can call it more loosely. Call it only when one of the players clearly does not want to fight and the other does. Or when a player goes out of his way to start something with a player who doesn’t.
And … this is what I don’t understand … why don’t linesmen/refs break up fights when it’s clear that only one of the fighters wants to fight?
If two guys want to fight, it shouldn’t matter who starts it. The instigator should not be enforced then.
That’s a good rationalization Carp.
I have heard a LOT of players say that the instigator should go. That dropping that rule would really save a lot of people from some horrible head shots. I don’t play hockey so I don’t really know. I like Carp’s idea. I think you have to let the guys fight sometimes and you have to let people protect their weaker guys.
Carp, your idea is basically to allow the third man in… which just means that if a guy like Dubinsky ever fights, Shelley can jump in and pummel him.
Nice article, Carp. Thanks.
The way they call an instigator is ridiculous. It seems like the player drops his glove one second earlier gets an instigator.
If somebody really wants to fight/hurt someone, they will do so, instigator rule be damned. Just look at the Islanders Penguins game with the multiple instigations against Talbot, and other instigations against Brent Johnson and Tangradi.
Or think of Claude “Turtle” Lemieux.
I may be in the minority, but I like the instigator rule.
There’s already a growing epidemic of guys fighting on behalf of their teammates after clean hits and that’s with the instigator in place. Imagine how much that goes up if the instigator is taken out.
Why should hitting player X have to sit out for 5 minutes just because he hit head down player Y cleanly?
I don’t really see what the issue is…enforcer hockey is slowly working its way out of the much faster NHL in my opinion. Teams that are going to go far simply can’t afford to have a slow bruiser in the lineup. Good clubs need at least three, preferably four lines they can roll every game. When you have a guy who gets used as a pylon every time faster skaters are on the ice, he becomes a liability. I really think guys like Boogaard are fading into hockey’s past. Now we have more serviceable fighters like Thornton on Boston, Carcillo and Carkner on Ottawa. These are guys who can fight and pitch in elsewhere. Of course, you have some teams that insist on carrying a seldom-used bruiser. But if you look at the teams now vying for the cup, none of them have a guy solely designated for fighting or enforcing, like Boogaard was. Thornton, Eager, and Downie are all guys who can chip in offensively. Hell, Eager and Downie were both first-rounders.
On a different note…what do you think about these murmurs about the Rangers resigning Immonen? Several sites have stories about it. Is he even still a part of the Ranger organization? Does he even fit in here?
Eager is an UFA, by the way….
Imonen is still a Rangers property…..Not sure where he fits at all….
I did read a tweet this morning from Zipay mentioning that Immonen was extended for a year by his KHL club. I saw Adam (from SNY blog) post something yesterday about Schoenfeld being interested in bringing Immonen back. So, I’m not sure what the story really is…
phil, Jamal Mayers is in the running for the Norris though, right? Face it, old-time GMs will still want their old-time hockey.
Here’s the story with Immonen: I’m sure his contract, like many other KHL deals for players that have been to the NHL, has an NHL out clause, or, alternatively, he’ll just force his release like Nabokov did when Detroit came calling.
Immonen is still Rangers property, however, I don’t think there is any chance that they sign him unless they miss out on Brad Richards. But even then, we are talking long-shot, since there would be a high probability he gets Whaled, and I’m sure he won’t want to trade his higher and tax free KHL salary for bus riding in CT.
Manny won yesterday due to lack of entries. What’s for lunch, boneheads?
I thought I was never allowed to win! If I am the only entry shouldn’t Sally win?
“Today Tiny Whole Wheat, Cheddar flavored Goldfish swam towards my mouth, down my throat and into my upset stomach. They spent their time in my stomach using their salty goodness to make my stomach feel better. They Failed. Miserably.”
You can win, Manny, you can win. Just under dire circumstances.
I didn’t even eat lunch today. I am mostly ashamed.
Great link. Thanks.
Carp, I agree with most of what you said about fighting. The goon vs goon fights might be entertaining to watch, but they do nothing to police the game. I also agree with Phil that the enforcer is being phased out of the NHL. The number of guys whose only ability is to fight and can’t contribute in other areas is going away.
Today for lunch, I will be having two all-beef patties, special sauce, double cheese, in between two Tim Horton’s jelly donuts, wrapped in Canadian bacon, and all deep fried in lard, of course.
I call this lunch “Le Brodeur.”
Nice NY’er article. anyone wish to bet that sather courts Carcillo ?
Lol, billy. Most excellent.
boy am i going to miss Boogaard. too young to die.
i was going to finally change my April NYRangers wallpaper today only to see Boogaard staring into the crowd raising his stick next to Callahan saluting the fane. i was searching for his number and there he was.
i’ll never forget his awesome fights or his final goal and will never forget thee, Boogeyman. i sincerely mean that. he was my favorite current day and age enforcer.
I love jelly donuts. Now I want one. The heck with the heartburn!
I take back what I said about Carcillo…he does have some skill, and a place in the NHL, even if it’s a small one. He can chip in goals and add a little offense.
But, prue goons like: Gillies, Parros, Orr, Shelley, Belak, etc… are becoming irrelevant…
I’m not sure what they really bring for their teams, other than entertainment value for the fans…
You want to intimidate the opposition and protect your crease? Then, you need very large and mean men on defense… a la Chara, Bieksa, Burns, Bogosian, etc…
For the folks interested in reading about Immonen and his plans:
Can’t say I agree with you on Alec’s writing at least in that article, Carp. Not only did he not address the problem of concussions leading to memory loss and brain damage
He had to go here of all places:
“But I wouldn’t miss [fights] if they were taken away from the sport.” This is the type of sportswriter who will get fighting completely banned from the game the next time someone dies from a fight. And it WILL happen it’s just a matter of time. We all know that.
The article was about Boogaard. Without fights he would have never been a hockey player and we wouldn’t even be discussing him or any of his great battles on the ice protecting his teammates.
Agreeing to a fight and getting knocked out > blindside headhunting boarding hit or a suckerpunch. It’s part of the game.
He also tried to paint Boogaard as the Rangers white knight enforcer when he barely played any games with them. He was Minny’s enforcer.
What a garbage article.
And dare I say that untreated depression due, brain damage, combined with not being able to play may have lead to his death? I know nobody is touching this in the media but it’s a big deal. Players in football and hockey need to be looked after more closely.
i like the idea of using discretion in regards to giving out
an instigator penalty
or could the instigator just be tossed
a 2 minute misconduct be given to someone who
CLEARLY instigates a fight upon someone who
CLEARLY doesn’t want to dance?
i know that teams are so sensitive about giving an opponent
a power play due to the tightness of races
in a retribution situation your teammates need to just
play up to the moment and kill that extra 2
that would be simply be that.
LOL! I didn’t realize that Parros went to Princeton! Wow, smart guy! Not all goons are dopes…
did you see that Shplongle
is playing Camp Bisco in july?
possibly some other dates.
Hey, Parros scored a hat trick once. How many goons can say they did that??
“LOL! I didn’t realize that Parros went to Princeton! Wow, smart guy! Not all goons are dopes…”
Apparently when he challenges someone he says “would you like to give me a fight” LOL
One of my favorite fighters
what a great article btw on boogey. I also think the calgary game was boogey’s shining moment as an “enforcer” for us!!
Thanks for the link carp!
noonan- Actually, what he says is, “Pardon me. Would you care to engage in a pugilistic endeavor?”
Doodie, I said nothing about eliminating the third-man in rule. I think that’s a great rule.
Phil, I don’t know anything about Immonen, don’t know anything about the Rangers interest. I only saw Zip said he re-signed with his current team, and I’m too lazy and busy to really care.
noonan, it’s also garbage, to use your word, to speculate on a cause of death.
onecup, yeah, they’ll go after that piece of cooke carcillo or some other goon who doesn’t fit.
I also think the calgary game had one of the two best hits by a d man of ours in it
This is the red flag for me, from the NHL.com story:
“Despite Immonen’s soft hands and excellent offensive instincts, he had flaws in his game that caused his draft stock to drop. Most NHL scouts considered Immonen a subpar skater and no better than average defensively. As a result, his NHL candidacy was considered a hit-or-miss proposition based solely on his ability to score goals.”
sounds like a bunch of other guys who have come through here, doesn’t it?
Hey, the New Yorker is stealing my ideas.
this kind of goes with Carp and others are saying
that a strict enforcer isn’t really useful in
someone who play as well as be a strong fighter.
i think it was discussed early last season
in regards to something that the ‘94 team had, Team Toughness
with that anybody could knock you down, score a goal
and beat the carcillo out of an opponent on any shift.
It’s also garbage to ignore the serious effects of brain damage and depression, Carp. Forgive me if I’m concerned about what exactly happened to this poor kid. There’s a reason why his family donated his mind to science—they want to know what happened and how to prevent it. So get off your high horse.
Did you know the average lifespan of a football player that has played for 1 season in the NFL is something like 40 years of age?
40 years old? is that a fact?
Johnny, I was waiting for that line. knew it was coming.
yeah dude!! Shpongle Live – for the first time in US! I might be going to camp bisco… still undecided! If you can go, GO! Don’t miss a chance! Shpongle Live – is a rare gem!
btw, jpg… if you like Shpongle, you should definitely like their (Simon’s) other project called “Younger Brother”... check out their new album called “Vaccine” Its brilliant!
sorry for being so harsh Carp i’ve had a terrible week. but it’s an illness that is something near and dear to my heart. i’ll leave it at that.
“40 years old? is that a fact?”
Boomer said it the other on the radio and i almost crashed into a bridge. i have no reason not to believe him but i did and looked it up and there are sourced studies saying anywhere from 43 to 47 on the internet. just 1 year! that’s crazy.
Christian Thomas signed!!! Weeee!
There’s our next elite goal scorer!! (Fingers crossed!!)
we should sign Voros again…
LOL!!! C3, 100%
Btw, jpg & C3, do you guys like the Disco Biscuits? I never made it to a Camp Bisco… but I’ve been to plenty of their live shows…
They are are def one of my favorite jam bands…
NYR_FAN: get ready for a lot of droogz LOL
Camp Bisco is a Matt Cookeshow!
speaking of jambands i’ll be at Bethel Woods to see Phish next weekend. they ait they ait
I think rupp should be a consideration at forward
Not saying I agree with this, but does anyone see us trying to acquire chris Neil?
I think it’s going to be tough next year when we realize boogard isnt on the ice because hes gone and not because he cant play. Thats how i felt reading that article on the new yorker.
Hell no, Wicky!
Disco Biscuits are OK… i like some of it.
i am more into electronic sound which Younger Brother and Shpongle Live bring in a mix with live instruments.
Definitely don’t like Phish.