The old brawl game


Hockey, hockey, hockey.

While watching three different sporting events yesterday, I was reminded of this fine game on ice.

First, during Golf Channel’s pre-PGA Championship press conferences I heard Sam Weinman asking questions at Whistling Straits in Wisconsin. Just hearing his voice got me thinking about the good old days when Sam was covering the Rangers and making this blog what it is. I really miss him. So do we all at LoHud.

Then I was watching the Yankees at Texas, and I heard the fans in Arlington chanting, “Let’s Go Rangers, clap, clap, clap-clap-clap.” Where have I heard that before?

Finally, watching the sports highlights I saw the baseball brawl between the Reds and Cardinals. Did youse see that one? It wasn’t quite a hockey donneybrook, but for baseball it was pretty good.

Lots of grappling, some punches, a few kicks. Real anger, including another near Tony LaRussa-Dusty Baker punchout in the battle of the old guys. At the end of the YouTube clip above, they show some of their other incidents.

The kicking reminded me of a softball team on which I played years ago. We had two brothers, who shall remain nameless, on the team. They were both like nth-degree black belts. Well, we were batting when there was a little dustup near second base. And as our bench was sprinting onto the field, there our two black belts were taking off their shoes.

Hah. True story.


Update: The YouTube clip was removed by MLB. So I linked to a slightly different one, from

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  1. wicky (Our D is SOFT!!!!) on

    morning carp (ILB and all)!

    nice post, let’s get the season going!!!!

    off to work. Later assens!

  2. That was a brawl?! Reminded me of a little scuffle over rotten fruits someone was trying to sell on Russian outdoor fresh produce market in mid 70th.

    LMAO at black belts! Did they wear visors?

    Good morning, boneheads!

  3. Morning all!

    Saw the highlights from the Cards/Reds brawl. It was crazy. I’m surprised Cueto wasn’t tossed for kicking people. He must have Pronger on speed dial.

  4. Joekuh - still playing NHL '94... on

    Its funny how the smallest things will set off a baseball kumbaya session…no punches thrown, no care.

  5. From LB’s twitter:

    “Maybe the Canucks won’t be so pleased if Bettman strips team of next three first-rounders as his right under Article 26 dictatorial powers.”

  6. Morning all.

    Makes you think what would happen if baseball had a “goon” bench player.

    Can you imagine Yadi Molina and Brandon Phillips jawing at each other and then next at bat up steps pinch-hitter Jared Boll (CBJ, nearest team to Cinci) to face relief pitcher Cam Janssen, one pitch is “thrown”, both players take off their caps and meet somewhere in the infield, up on the big screen appears the stats, age, height, weight reach, season fight record…..

  7. LB knows better. Must be bored with nothing else to write.

    Can’t see the Luongo contract getting “overturned”. What’s the league going to say? We didn’t really mean it when we approved it last year? More importantly, unlike Kovi, Hossa and other skaters, there’s plenty of examples of goalies playing into their 40’s, and from all eras. Some pretty big names too…….Plante, Hasek, Belfour, Joseph. No way they can claim Luongo won’t or can’t play at 43.

  8. Wow Carp. Thanks for pointing out why I don’t watch baseball anymore. What a bunch of pansies. If that was heated, what are they like when they’re angry? Catatonic and drooling? I’ve seen better fights among the blue hairs at the local PTA meetings.

  9. Carp, I’m pretty sure they didn’t say “Let’s go Rang-uhs” in Texas. LOL

    Funny post.

  10. ilb

    You’re too kind

    Remember that one man’s maturity is another man’s old age.

    I should have known better than to bring up a ditty that anyone who was born and bred in the shadows of the ivied walls of Yale, in Ol’ New Haven, would know about the Whiffenpoofs. A singing society of the esteemed and ancient unversity, that dates back many generations.


    To the tables down at Mory’s
    To the place where Louie dwells
    to the dear old Temple Bar we love so well
    Sing the Whiffenpoofs assembled, with their glasses raised on high,
    And the magic of their singing casts a spell

    Yes the magic of their singing of the songs we love so well
    “Shall I wasting” and “Mavourneen” and the rest,
    We will serenade our Louie, while life and voice shall last,
    Then we’ll pass, and be forgotten with the rest.

    We’re poor little lambs who have lost our way,
    Baa, Baa, Baa.
    We’re little black sheep who have gone astray,

    Gentlemen songsters off on a spree,
    Doomed from here to eternity,
    Lord have mercy on such as we,Baa,Baa,Baa.

    Perry Como made a recording of this old song, and a few explanations are called for/

    1. Mory’s…an on campus watering bar for Yalies only via ID cards. Ancient place. Still looks the same as it did at the turn of the 19th century, but with all modern conveniences.

    2. The place where Louie dwells…..

    Long disappeared to gentrification. But it lasted until the late l960s, when eminent domain swept it away

    Over on Crown St, and it was a small diner that catered heavily to the student customers. It was about 25 feet long, and from the entry door to the rear of the counter and cooking area it was about 12-15 feet max. At noon time, there was always a crowd to get in. legend has it that there were no burgers of better quality to be found ANYWHERE. And don’t think that the populace and Louie’s descendants didn’t battle hard to preserve it.

    The “dear old Temple bar” a favorite tavern on Temple St just off the Yale quadrangle)

    This lasted up until the early 30’s and then ” passed away”.

    As a race of people, we CT natives were always a bit overawed by New Yorkers, because when you met one, no matter what you told them, they all but patted your head and muttered, ” Yeah I know” ….sooo?

    It has always been a struggle getting on a par with a race of people who were so superior that they had decided that anyone west of the Hudson River, or east of the Bronx, was a “fahhmuh”.

  11. >> “Let’s Go Rangers, clap, clap, clap-clap-clap.” Where have
    >>I heard that before.

    Almost every professional team in America does that silly cheer. I’m so disappointed that we, NY Rangers fans, haven’t been more creative. I say we should chant *”New York Rangers”* instead and leave the “Let’s Go…” to the rest of the world. Someone needs to get in touch with the MSG scoreboard operator.

  12. JBytes, that chant was originated in hockey. It began to sweep the nation after the Rangers won the Cup and Messier and Leetch brought the Cup to Yankee Stadium … now the Yankees fans do it every five seconds for something else … “De-Rek Je-Ter, clap, clap, clap-clap-clap.”

  13. All this fighting is bush-league … particularly considering that baseball is allegedly a “family sport”.

  14. Coach, I only know it’s been around as long as I have … I first started watching hockey around 1970.

    Miami, where you been?

    Good morning, Sally!

  15. Hi CARP,

    I’ve been busy with the job, World Cup … woman.

    But now that the sun is rising on the new Rangers season, I’ll be around more often to see how they’ll bush-league it.

  16. I find the ‘roll call’ at Yankee Stadium really annoying. I get why they do it and thought it was kinda nifty at the start, but now it’s like nails on a chalk board whenever I hear it. I know I’ll be accused of being Yankee hater for saying that (because I’m a Mets fan), but I find the “Jose Jose Jose” thing at CitiField to be just as annoying.

  17. For my university’s basketball games we used to do a ‘Warm up the Bus’ chant late in home games when we were winning. Used to get a certain Temple head coach really angry, whihc just egged us on, lol.

  18. carp

    i have a question. when the Rangers traded Messier’s rights to the sharks for their 4th round pick in 2004, did we actually get their pick considering Messier eventually wound up coming back here.

    the reason I ask is the only player selected by the Rangers in 2004 was Ryan Callahan and was wondering if that pick was an original rangers pick or the sharks pick?

  19. oleo, sorry, i have no idea about that. I was miles and miles away from hockey at that point. i don’t even remember that trade.

  20. TheREALMikeyNJ on

    Carp or anyone:

    I’ve been trying to find out online but cant seem to dig up this info anywhere?

    How long is Joe Micheletti’s contract for with MSG?

    I’ve been watching the top 10’s MSG has been playing lately, and jsut hearing his voice again make me cringe

    He’s jsut one of the worst color analysts The Rangers have ever had.

    When will this jack arse be gone?

    Can Billy Jaffe take his spot and we can send him back to Fishstick land?

    That woudl be one of Sather’s best trades of the summer if it were up to him.

  21. Speaking of hockey… i really like “Raising The Cup” program on NHLN

    Last night they were showing 2001 finals Avalanche vs. Devils

    New Jersey was defending Cup champs, but lost 3-1 in game seven. Ray Bourque wins his first Stanley Cup in 22 years! Patrick Roy wins his league record third Conn Smythe. It was a great game!

    At the end of the game, before they brought out the Cup, as players start to congratulate themselves…i see this blond little kid standing on the ice and crying his eyes out! I think to myself, yes, i remember that kid was crying the first time i saw this game back in 2001! I look at him and see little Ray Bourgue and suddenly realizing that this kid is all grown up right now and a property of the New York Rangers, Ryan Bourque! This kid got heart…glad we have him!

  22. This is kind of cool!

    From Official NY Rangers Page on Facebook–

    Are you True Blue? Have you ever wanted to be in a music video? Here’s your chance to participate in a Rangers music video! We’re hosting a casting call for Rangers fans. Email your best fan pic to and tell us why we should pick you! Must be 21 years old & available to attend video shoot this Friday night/Saturday morning. Shoot begins 1am Saturday morning. Deadline to submit pics, Friday (8/13) at 10:00am.

  23. CCCP: I was thinking the same thing watching Ryan Bourque and wondering how many people realized who that was.

  24. Wow, I vaguely remember that scene, CCCP. Kid was crying his eyes with joy and now look at him all growed up 9 years later.

    Amazing how fast little ones grow up.

  25. So we traded Messier’s rights and got Callahan? Seems rather apropos since Callahan seems to have a bit of Messier’s leadership qualities and never-say-die attitude to him.

  26. Coach Beeblebrox on


    Ryan Bourque does have talent, and a lot of it. When I see him I cannot help but see a young Todd Marchant. He’s got speed, tenacity, and above all he is very smart. He understands the defensive part of the game at a high level, so much Team USA pegged him right away as their “shutdown forward” and rode him hard in that respect.

    My only question with Ryan, is his health. He has had a couple concussions, so I hope he can learn to survive as the competition gets bigger. IMO if he stays healthy he is a sure fire NHL forward.

  27. Sather's fire on

    I asked Glen Sather if the Rangers had any chants.

    he replied, “No, they have no chance with me as GM”

  28. wicky (Our D is SOFT!!!!) on

    Joe M is no JD, but that being said having centre ice and watching a lot of different games when the rangers are not playing, I;ll happily take Joe M over the other guys.

    now if we are getting rid of some bad commentating….gianone needs to go, period!!!!

  29. Coach Beeblebrox on

    The NHL is only posturing. They have to “look into” the other contracts so as to appear unbiased, and to send a message to the NHLPA, and the GMs around the league to stop the shenanigans. I don’t think they have any intention of actually attempting to void contracts they already approved. Not even Bettman is that arrogant.

  30. am i the only one who has no problems with Joe M at all? Sure he can be a homer sometimes but you would be to if you had to keep your job!

  31. CCCP- he has his moments, but he is fine. It’s just that we are still comparing him to JD. Big shoes to fill.

  32. >>Doesn’t everyone wish they were a hockey player?

    Um, NO! I’m too vain to risk having my face get scarred and teeth knocked out by hockey sticks and pucks.

  33. wicky (Our D is SOFT!!!!) on

    I’m with my Ukrainian friends, Joe is not that bad at all!

    back to work, later assens!

  34. TheREALMikeyNJ on

    Thansk Carp, no one seems to know

    And I know there are worse annoucers out there, but Joe M just goes off on tangent after tangent somtimes, he distracts Sam Rosen from actually calling the game

    I’ve said this the past 5 or so seasons, I just flat out cant stand the guy and wish we’d trade him for Jaffe.

    And I know Gianonne is no JD, but at least he’s only the second string announcer, Dave Maloney being the first.

    Hey Make Dave do the Tv and switch Doucheletti to Radio, problem solved!!

    God this is how I can tell its mid August, when Im complaining about joe M.

    How about a nice LETS GO RANGERS and start camp already!!

  35. just working one job today.
    a nice change of pace.

    LOVE LOVE LOVE your story on the
    softball brawl/near karate chop-athon


    in regards to

    if that’s the case, why didn’t he do something to the devils?

  36. As announcers go, the Rangers’ guys are pretty good. They’re no JD, but no one in sports is. I think it’s a lot easier to appreciate the MSG guys after being forced to watch Philly and NJ announcers for a year. As biased and hokey as we think the MSG guys might be, they’re light years better than their peers.

    Plus maybe they’ll stick more to the action on the ice if the team plays more interesting hockey at an exciting tempo.

  37. I don’t think there’s anybody better than Sam. Joe has certainly had a tough act to follow in JD. But, seriously, there are some real clowns around the league, and in other sports (some right here in NY). Be grateful for what you’ve got. Or turn off the sound and listen to Kenny and Dave on the radio.

  38. I happen to like Joe M. He’s not JD, but as others have pointed out, we could have it a lot worse. As for Sam, if and when he retires, I would have no problem with Kenny taking over. If not him, then Howie Rose, who must be in purgatory doing the Isles games.

  39. anyone needing tix i have a pair for the season in section 330. 60 face value. 120 for pair. let me know.

    rather sell to you guys then stubhub

  40. I love listening to the games on the radio cause after awhile Joe & Sam get on my nerves and don’t even get me started on Gianonne ( I want to be an announcer) asks stupid questions

  41. Carp do you or anyone else for that matter know where or what the handicapped seating is like at msg?

  42. Just to complete the Messier/Callahan 2003/04 trade/draft circle that everybody has been tearing their hair out waiting for (hey, gotta do something with Rod not around to provide the entertainment)…

    (Skip this post if you’re not a geek.)

    The Rangers traded Messier to the Sharks for future considerations that became the 4th rounder used to select Callahan. The Sharks got a 3rd rounder in the same draft as compensation for “losing” Messier as a free agent. They traded the pick to Dallas as part of a deal to move up in the first round to select Lukas Kaspar. Dallas then moved it to Vancouver, who used it to select Alexander Edler (not a bad player).

    (Seriously, skip this post if you’re not a geek.)

    On the same day Messier became a Shark (kinda), Brian Leetch was sent to the Oilers for Jussi Markkanen and another 4th round pick in 2004. The Oilers got a second round pick as compensation for “losing” Leetch as a free agent, which they sent to the Rangers in the Petr Nedved deal in the deadline purge of 2004 (which saw Markkanen head back to the Oilers, strangely enough, and Steve Valiquette come to NY). The Rangers then used the pick on wicky’s favourite Wolf Packer, Dane Byers.

    The 4th rounder they originally acquired ended up with Toronto as part of the “real” Leetch trade in the deadline purge of 2004, the Leafs selecting something called Roman Kukumberg. As well as netting future MSG legends Maxim Kondratiev and Jarkko Immonen, the Rangers received a 2005 2nd rounder used to select Michael Sauer and a 2004 1st rounder, subsequently traded to Calgary in order to move up and select Lauri Korpikoski.

    All explained here, if you’re still awake:

  43. Coach Beeblebrox on


    I have been to MSG with a friend of mine who is on wheels. We sat once in a box, and once in seats down by the Zamboni entrance (just up and to the LH side of the doors) and both of those options were real good. The box of course was very nice, great views. The other was closer to the ice, but not as nice of a view all around. I know there is another set of seats somewhere on the camera side of the ice, just above the press boxes if I remember correctly.

  44. Coach Beeblebrox on

    I like Sam and Joe in the broadcast booth. Of course Joe is not JD, but he does not have to be. I think Joe does a nice job, he catches most things, and usually calls it right. He does not seem shy about letting his feelings known which I always admire.

    Considering all the dopes out there in some cities (Buffalo) Joe and Sam are top notch.

  45. wicky (Our D is SOFT!!!!) on


    if this is accurate, what the hell is slats doing?? I’d send staal, girardi, or rozy to SJ for clowe and a first rounder in a heartbeat!!!!

    Latest on Kaberle (BOS,DAL,L.A,NJ,SJ,TB) are all in the mix, Leafs most tempting offer Clowe+1st Rounder.Burke not interested in draft picks

  46. ZzZz NYR ZzZz " Kovalchuk makes me wanna Frolov!!! " … says Greg L. on

    LW3H , As nerdy as your post was ..I needed that. I was thinking …Messier to the Sharks!!?? Noooo it was Graves who got send there. Then all that funny transaction stuff . I oviously forgot that Messier was traded there. Lame .

    Thats how we got Vally ” legs open wide as a Valley” Vallaquette. I loved his mask ,his hight too. I remeber when he has a shut out streak going then let in 5 goals in like 3 mins. Steve Vallaquette is pure garbage. Thank GOODNESS we have a solid backup in Biron. This is seriously the first time sinse we had Richter and…..?

  47. It doesn’t work turning the sound down and listening to the radio…they have different delays. if i remember right from when I’ve tried, the radio is like a second or two ahead.

  48. Wicky

    i bet you would trade Jagr for Witt straight up too!

    Kaberle is overrated anyway…just like Bouwmeester

    so, no thanks

  49. ZzZz NYR ZzZz " Kovalchuk makes me wanna Frolov!!! " … says Greg L. on

    Healy!!! Right!! Glen Healy was …kinda good. Um wicky , we have to do better then that . Like Vanbeezer and …?
    Mike Ritcher best backup was Healy?

    Did someone post BOOGAARD!!!!???? WOHOOOOOOO Morg , ya want some gibberish now!!??? BOOGEY is a Beast!!! Great find , just saw the header and it got me riled up!!!


    How many times this upcoming season will Booger get double-shifted?


  51. wicky (Our D is SOFT!!!!) on

    jagr in first post lockout year, no…… (as soon as he got the C, I was done, so yes).

    I think kaberle sucks, I was saying clowe and a 1st rounder would be great for any of the 3 d men I listed!

  52. Also in that 2004 draft…

    The Rangers had a 2nd round pick as compensation for R.J Umberger not signing with them after being a 1st round pick (of the Canucks). That got sent to the Flames in the swap of 1st rounders that saw the Rangers move up to select Korpikoski. The Flames then traded the pick to the Blue Jackets, who ended up with Adam Pineault, while the Flames acquired two 3rd rounders, which ended up being used on Dustin Boyd and Brandon Prust.

    The Rangers also had an eventual interest in Derian Hatcher’s free agent signing by the Red Wings the year before. The Stars received a compensatory 2nd round pick, which passed through the hands of the Panthers (Valeri Bure trade) and the Rangers (pick flipping) before ending up with the Coyotes, who selected Enver Lisin. In acquiring the pick, the Coyotes sent two lower picks to the Rangers, one of which was used to select Brandon Dubinsky.

  53. i liked the part in that booger article that talked about Kocurs PIMs dropping as a result of guys being less willing to give him a go..maybe setting us up for a 10 fight season for Boogs.Im betting the over,saying he gets 15 FMs withPrusts over/underFMs is set(by me)at 20,and im taking the under with ol Pruster.

  54. that transaction site is great

    1991-03-05 Rangers Per Olaf Djoos (Per Djoos), Joe Kocur / Joey Kocur for Kevin Miller, Dennis Vial, rights to Jim Cummins trade with Red Wings

  55. totally off topic, but the boneheads always have interesting information and ‘contacts’.

    Do any of you know anyone who is skilled in the art of finding people, unfortunately with limited information unless I can find the most important bit o’ information ( the social security number lol). If so, I’d appreciate it if you’d let me know. MUCH THANKS in advance!

  56. Tank The Season on

    Nice article on Boogaard. I don’t think we’ll have many complaints about him. He doesn’t dog it like Frolov MIGHT.

  57. Did you guys hear that the Isiah-to-Knicks thing has been nixed by the NBA’s rule that prohibits club personnel from associating with non-draft eligible players, i.e. high school recruits and college players. So Isiah can’t work for the Knicks if he’s coaching a college team …

    of course, if Dolan makes him the GM, he’d probably give up the coaching gig.

  58. Carpy

    one paper said the NBA put the kibosh on it, another said Thomas changed his mind! Dolan should be cryogenically frozen for later study.

  59. He’s been frozen, Linda. People just forgot to tell him. What’s next- Michael Vick to run Liberty?

  60. that may be true ILB, but they did NOT remove his head from his body!! :-)

    Tiger Woods wants to run the Liberty ;-)

  61. Hi Ogie. Buy you a soda after the game? on

    Was there any crying? Because, (all together now) there’s no crying in baseball.

  62. OK. So Booger – 5 mins a game, and a long article about his physicalness and fighting etc.. its almost like the article is saying we’ve signed the best but don’t expect many fights ‘cos the whole league is scared of him?

    Lets see how he stacks up against the division:
    NYR – Boogy – 6’8″ 257lbs
    NJD – PL3 – 6’2″ 210lbs
    NYI – Konopka – 6’1″ 213lbs
    PHI – Shelley – 6’3″ 225lbs Pronger 6’6″ 214lbs
    PIT – Godard – 6’4″ 211lbs Rupp 6’5″ 230lbs

    The only guy in the conference who is going to offer any real challenge to Boogey will be DJ King when we play the Caps – of all the fights Boogey had last year King was the only one that was close, 43% King win, 41% Boogey win according to

    One thing that was clear though was that when he threw a hit 90% of the time the guy was on his a$$ and thats how most of his fights started.

    I think we are going to like Boogey, its just we wont see as much of him as we might Brandon Prust.

  63. wicky (Our D is SOFT!!!!) on

    morning ILB and all!!

    wonder where belanger ends up? Love the fact he yanked his own tooth on the bench

    off to work…later assens!

  64. Morning all!

    LW, That’s some real digging and figuring out on the picks and players being swapped. Really interesting too.

    One day closer to camp!

  65. Boogard is a funny name to both say and look at. I wouldn’t ever say that to his face though. ;)

  66. All of this cogitating about how the Rangers are going to do…how would anyone like to be an inveterate Mets fan nowadays?

  67. Speaking of brawls, anyone see that Frankie Rodriguez punched his father-in-law after last night’s game, then was arrested?

    Point in the Ranger’s favor- at least the player’s keep the fighting to ON the ice. And amongst themselves and their opponents.

  68. the thing is Boogaard doesnt really fight. It might be that players are too afraid but i don’t think that is the main reason.

    Im not really sure Boogaard is the type of guy who will instigate or pick a fight, I think that Prust will wind up being that guy.

    Something gives me the feeling, Ranger fans will be a little puzzled as to his lack of dropping the gloves

  69. inveterate? I had to look that one up, fran. And as one of them, I’ve given up on the season and would gladly swap Sather for Minaya as GMs. Hell, I’d love to swap Torts and Manuel. I can only imagine Torts arguing with an umpire and kicking the Met’s collective behinds. Would be good for them.

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