The draft … the crapshoot

300

Here’s my feeling on the NHL Draft for the Rangers, and it’s the same as every draft:

I don’t know. You don’t know. They don’t know. Nobody knows.

And we won’t know for years. That’s the nature of the animal. Unless you’re getting one of those clear-cut NHL-ready stars like a Crosby, an Ovechkin, a Taylor Hall, there’s no way to judge a draft until, like wine, it ages.

Kids picked in later rounds routinely turn out to be better than players picked in the first round. The Rangers have historically done better in later rounds: such as when they selected Henrik Lundqvist in the seventh round (after taking Filip Novak, Dominic Moore, Premsyl Duben, Nathan Martz, Brandon Snee and Sven Helfenstein) in 2000; or when they selected Doug Weight second after picking Michael Stewart first, and then got Sergei Zubov in the fifth round and Sergei Nemchinov in the 12th round (!) in 1990.

I always go back to the first NHL draft that defined the Edmonton Oilers dynasty (overseen by Glen Sather, as you know). Well, they got a fabulous player in Kevin Lowe in the first round. But they got Mark Messier in the third round and Glenn Anderson in the fourth. You can give Slats all the credit in the world for that draft, but honestly, if he had known that Messier was going to be one of the top five or six players of all time, and that Anderson would score 1000 points and almost 500 goals and go to the Hall of Fame, well, what was he waiting for? And what the hell was everybody else thinking (the Rangers selected Doug Sulliman and Ed Hospodar ahead of Messier!!!)?

The point is this: You are drafting 18-year-olds. Some of them turn out to be Pavel Brendl or Hugh Jessiman. Some of them turn out to be Brian Leetch. You don’t know now. You know later. Especially with defensemen.

Which brings us to this draft. The Rangers trade of former first-rounder Bobby Sanguinetti for a second-rounder and a sixth-rounder pretty much tells us why they felt it was OK to pass on Cam Fowler and Brandon Gormley. Maybe they saw Sanguinetti in those two. Highly-ranked, but cookie-cutter, dime-a-dozen  types. Who knows?

Maybe they felt that Dylan McIlrath was more likely to be an NHL player, if not a star then a steady, first-pair defenseman who might one day be a shut-down guy with a Chris Pronger mean streak. We know he’s got the streak, and the size. Plus, maybe we (those watching from a distance) should have taken into account what Gordie Clark and Jeff Gorton said before the draft: That after No. 1 and No. 2, the rest was pretty wide open. That the 19th-ranked player could go third, and vice versa.

Plus, it’s not like McIlrath was ranked 140th. He was the 17th-best North American skater on NHL Central Scouting’s list, and the sixth defenseman. So he went 10th, and as the second defenseman taken.

A surprise? Yes, a surprise. We, who only (and barely) know the names of the prospects coming into a draft, expect the players to be picked in order. Well, that’s why every team has its own scouts. They make their own rankings list. Obviously, Clark — who has had a pretty decent run as a talent evaluator — had McIlrath rated higher than the other available defensemen.

I’m going to go right ahead and admit that he knows better than I. About a zillion times better.

Plus, the Rangers have a boatload of defensemen who can move the puck and skate and pass already in their system. They don’t have a cruncher or a shut-down guy anywhere, in the bigs or in the minors.

Will McIlrath be Pronger? That’s a bit wildly optimistic. Will he be Jeff Beukeboom? Well, he has the size and meanness, and he has more skill than Beukeboom had, and what’s wrong with a first-pair defenseman who plays 10-12 years? Will he be Sanguinetti, and traded at the 2014 draft for a second-round pick? Or will he be Hospodar or Dale Purinton? Very doubtful.

But we won’t know for two, three, four years. He’ll spend next year in juniors, at least.

Maybe by then, one of the other Rangers’ 2010 picks will be playing in the NHL. Who knows?

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But chime in anyway in the poll on the right.

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300 Comments

  1. Jacob Ruppert on

    I just finished watching the England Germany game and boy I am so tired of seeing referees decide games. The English commentator said that since England lost 4-1, the missed goal didnt matter but you could tell the way the English players came out in the 2nd half, they were clearly affected by seeing the replay of the incorrect call. The whole outcome of the game was changed by that one call. Oh well, I was hoping for both the USA and England to advance but no such luck.

  2. Good article Carpy!!!

    Reading all of the canadien posts about the Rangers #1 pick was making me sick last night…

    Everybody in Canada (and a lot of US cities) think they know everything about the Rangers organization and how it’s run just from a plethera of unwise, high-priced free agent signings… many, many moons ago…

    It was great to come on the pc and read this post by you and disseminate the “What’s Up”…

    This was a very good pick by the Clark for the exact reasons you mentioned… he fills the void… we already have plenty of Sanguinetti’s… and he would have been drafted right after us had we not jumped at him or traded down.

    I’m happy this morning… not pissed or frustrated

    Let’s Go Rangers!

    @@

  3. WILLIAM

    If we have a bunch of Sanguinetti’s, doesn’t that mean we should have drafted Fowler?? You know, since Sangs was a bust for us.

    The only reason I sort of like NYR drafting McIlrath is because Pierre looked really pissed aboot it, as if he didn’t want NYR to have him. Haha!

    Still would have liked Mr. Fowley, but what ever. It’s not like anything will be known until we see these two play.

  4. onecupin 70yearsand counting.. on

    I believe that if the rangers had drafted Messier , he wouldn’t have developed into what he became as a Oiler.
    Edmonton was the right time and place for those players to develop, there was no monkey on the back to win it now.
    They took their time to mature and of course they had Gretzky.

  5. onecupin 70yearsand counting.. on

    And McIrath may be too one dimensional of a player to be a #1 pick despite his 17 ranking.
    Now do you have have to give this kid big bucks because he’s a 1st round pick?

  6. “Now do you have have to give this kid big bucks because he’s a 1st round pick?”

    Pretty much. If he plays semi-solid defense, and throws a bunch of hits, then he’ll get a big pay day when he’s a RFA.

    Volchenkov, Orpik, and Komisarek are all first round picks that are getting a ton of money when all they are really known for is their physicality, as well as other stuff, but mostly physicality.

    And you look at their stats, and they provide zero offense. But, what are you gonna do? That’s the way it is these days.

  7. One dimensional?

    Read his bios… all of them… he’s not a one-dimensional player at all. He can skate, he had the second hardest shot at their skills competion… when his defense partner went down with injury and the team lost their other puck-moving defensmen all of his offensive numbers WENT UP… Clark said he had gifted feet and was never out of position even against the best skaters he played against.

    Of course he was drafted to be the tough SOB he’s been his whole young career. And yes he fights and comes with nicknames and the whole bit… but he’s not one-dimensional. Give the Rangers more credit than that.

    @@

  8. Prospect Park on

    The Undertaker was a well thought out first round pick by the Rangers. When Del Zotto wants to pinch or go on the attack he will have his Jeff Beukeboom to cover for him if he gets caught up ice.

    He won’t have to fight as much as people think because he will do a lot more preventive work with the intimidation factor. A welcome relief for smaller Rangers who have been targets of various cheap shot artists.

    Andrew Yogan if he returns to form could be a major steal as a power forward who makes his linemates that much better

  9. Calling him and/or comparing him to Jeff Beukeboom is way too soon. The guy hasn’t even stepped on the ice for prospects camp yet.

    It’s like saying your newborn baby will become a doctor, even though it’s possible he/she can become a serial killer.

    Jessiwoman was definitely a serial killer. He killed NYR fans dreams of picking a star from that draft!

  10. True, no one knows. Many low drafted players have succeeded. But there is a pattern here. Detroit has had continued success, for example. They have a pattern of success. Sather has a pattern of failure in New York. And he is narcissistic enough to think that he is always right, no matter how often and apparent his failures are. Hence, his derogatory comments towards Staal, who dares to fight for a contract. Sather doesn’t like being questioned, and he obviously prefers players who are washed up and/or grateful to him. That is the obvious pattern, so by not choosing the more talented players available, it is all too easy to criticize him. Incompetence is still the prevailing pattern here.

  11. Carp

    Based on today’s new thread and a new poll on the right, the “I don’t know. You don’t know. They don’t know. Nobody knows.” choice should be on that list as well! lol

  12. kc… get a clue…

    and what deragotory comments did Sather make in the Brooks article about Staal??

    @@

  13. Does it matter who’s drafted or traded for or signed by the Rangers… you’ll still get a large number of people WHO WILL NEVER BE SATISFIED!

    …there’s too much pessimism and doom and gloom amongst the “faithful”… which kind of makes the Garden slogan ironic.

    Of course there have been some bad moves along the way. But most teams run the same fortunes… Some teams just have better stretches and get the luck of finding the right players at the right time. That’s just the way it is.

    @@

  14. I think its funny you put Dale Purinton as an option

    Would like him to be Shea Weber, will probably be like Beukeboom …… other scouts really like this kid too and he was ranked 17th as you’ve said

    I hope Sather and Agent Orr use this as a means to define how much Staal should get paid …

    Marc Staal – 23 yrs old – 82 GP, 8 G, 19 A, 27 pts, +11

    comparables (in years and point production):

    Seabrook – 25 yrs old – 30 pts – 3.5 million

    Quincey – 24 yrs old – 29 pts – RFA this year

    Letang – 23 yrs old – 27 pts – 3.5 million

    Shultz – 24 yrs old – 23 pts – RFA this year

    K. Russell – 23 yrs old – 22 pts – 1.3 million

    *Staal is better than Russell and Letang, but no where near Seabrook – 3.5 million TOPS for him*

  15. Sather's WrapUp on

    Uncle Glennie- Hero: Here we are, Ranger Fans, on day three raring to go, again. Muck? Have you been up all night drinking? You look grotesque! No? (Jeez, remind me to double his life insurance, I’m feeling lucky) OK Shoney, you’re up next. Bring us up to date on the Rangers Scouting System.

    Shoney: Well, as you all know, we had to dismiss our best Scout this year. He couldn’t get his scouting work done. At the games everyone wanted to pet his Seeing-Eye Dog. (Sorry, Blogmama, but that’s funny right there!)

    We have been accepting applications for a new Head Scout, and have quite a few promising candidates… Here’s one from a guy out in Montana. His family has been scouting for over a hundred years; apparently his great grandfather was the one that lead Custer to the Little Big Horn. Here’s a scout from a Girls 13-14 year-old Hockey League. He says he took lots of pictures. They weren’t developed yet, but we’re going back in a couple of months.

    Apparently there is a lot of unemployment out there. Here is an application from a former BP employee who was working on a rig in the Gulf, a British soccer goalie, one from a Mr. G.W. Bush, a former Law and Order script writer, a guy named Costanza who once worked for the Yankees, Betty White, General McChrystal. There’s bound to be a winner in there somewhere.

    Since Central Scouting covers most of the traditional Hockey places, we’ve been concentrating our scouting in some of the more non-traditional areas. We have scouts in Tibet, Greenland, South America… Hey! It gets cold there too, way down on the bottom… 2 guys in Bangladesh, Morocco, Xanadu, and France.

    UGH: Holy Cow! Why France for God’s sake?

    Shoney: You wife wanted to see Paris….

    UGH: Ooh! That reminds me, can we wrap this up early? I need to get some “things” out of the bedroom before she gets back.
    Next Time- Ranger RFA’s

  16. “there’s too much pessimism and doom and gloom amongst the “faithful”… which kind of makes the Garden slogan ironic”

    With good reason. Look at the guys on the ice. They don’t give two brash*ts.

    I don’t care how big a Rangers fan you are, this organization is just pathetic, and will be until certain people, players and personnel, are all removed.

  17. Yea… Right.
    Wasn’t Gordy Clark Milbury’s associate GM or Director of player personal for the Islanders..
    How did that work for them??
    Look up all the players they could of selected..
    Gaborik
    Spezza
    Heatley.
    Bottom line..
    Rangers passed on one of the key components to team USA winning a gold for the in Junior Championship..
    Here was a opportunity to start rebuilding and they blew it..
    You don’t rebuild with goon???
    Slats and these guys don’t have clue..

  18. I don’t understand why people call him a goon at all. Look at his stats. The jury is still out. On all of them. Including the #1 pick, by the way.

  19. slappy, I don’t have the list, but I believe that Clark actually drafted some pretty good players for the Islanders only to have Milbury trade them away (including Roberto Luongo). go back and look.

  20. I also don’t think McIlrath is a goon. He’s a mean SOB shutdown defenseman who likes to fight. Nothing wrong with that.

    I’m not saying he will be a star or whatever, but at the junior level, he’s not a goon.

  21. There aren’t 2 teams in the NHL (the team that drafted the good player, and the Rangers) there are 30!!

    Like Carpy said, it’s a crapshoot… some get lucky by default (The Penguins and Capitals are the first to come to mind)… and some get lucky by being smart, i.e. the Red Wings… not all the teams can be all of this.

    The Rangers hadn’t had a lot of luck with early rounders… this is true. Some things are tragically not their fault (Cherepanov), and others are just the wrong player to fill a need they needed (Jessiman)… but there are OTHER teams in this league that make the same decisions… and I guarantee you, that if the Rangers didn’t draft Jessiman that one of the next few clubs down the shute would have.

    But there have been good picks both high and low (Staal, Del Zotto, Hank, Cally)…

    Just wait and see how it unfolds before stating another failure on the hierarchy!

    @@

  22. Carp, The players that played in the wolrd junior games were the cream of the crop. So Folwer was the best of the best. You don’t pass on talented d-man..
    The game has change and speed is so key.. The Oplympics proved that.. The Russians had no idea how to counter the fast pace for-checkingstyle of play of the North American teams..

    The game has past Stats..

  23. Tank The Season on

    If McIlrath turns out to be a stud defenseman who lives up to being nicknamed after a legendary pro wrestler then nobody will complain.

    But there’s no way of knowing for awhile, that’s just how it goes. What we do know is that Del Zotto will be a star this year. That took only 2 years to ascertain which is great.

  24. The Jessiwoman pick is almost as tragic as the Cherry pick.

    You have to wonder what the guy goes through. He must know that he’s the only first rounder from that draft that has yet to play an NHL game. And it doesn’t help to know that the majority of that round has produced stars.

    The kid will never rebound. Total waste, in every sense of the word!

  25. ILB

    That’s what I’m wondering. Both he, and that other kid were supposed to be 3-4 or 4-5, but fell so far back. There has to be an explanation.

    Like I mentioned, Staal fell in the draft, so you can’t really say that the two kids would not amount to anything. But, nobody has really explained it.

    I want answers!

  26. lol I think Sather had this kid picked just to make it interesting on this blog. Wait til someone finally asks Torts about Mcilrath and he’s all “byfuglien yourself! check back with me in 3 years”

    I wonder how it woulda been around here if we picked 1st…

    Rangers pick Taylor: everyone- “morons! they shoulda taken Tyler! this organization sucks!”

    Rangers pick Tyler: everyone- “morons! how do you pass up on the next Crosby?! they shoulda taken Taylor!”

    ORR- whether you admit it or not you’re getting to be “okay” with this pick. Like me, you tend to realize there are like 100 other issues to correct before worrying about this year’s pick. heh you’re coming around even if Fowler woulda looked good in blue and red ; )

  27. Bob McKenzie tweeting that Savard can be acquired for no major players or draft picks. just lesser players or picks. they just want to move his salary because with Seguin now they have Bergeron and Krejci and Seguin so they are set at Center

  28. The Rangers have a Fowler… they didn’t have a McIlrath!

    Supposedly, Dallas was willing to make the exact same gamble… do they need a Fowler more than we do?

    @@

  29. As for Fowler and Gormley faling so far in the draft, I don’t know what to make of it. I mean look at 05 when Staal fell to 12th. the other Dmen selected before him were Jack Johnson (3), Brian Lee (9) and Luc Bourdon (10). The other players selected over Staal? Crosby, Ryan, Kopitar, Price, Pouliot, Setoguchi, Jack Skille and Gilbert Brule.

    In retrospect, you could make the argument that Staal should have gone 6th or 7th. Moral of the story- you just don’t know until a few years later what you actually have.

  30. JAMES

    I wanted Fowler for obvious reasons. I think it doesn’t hurt to have two “Del Zotto’s”. It just makes us stronger, if he turns into what everyone expects him to be.

    But, you’re right, I am okay with the pick now, because I really don’t care. It’s pointless to complain aboot now. But, I wanted the American!

    But, I wont change my opinion on NYR. They still suck no matter what they do for the remainder of the summer.

    As for the Seguin/Hall debate. I honestly don’t think you can go wrong either way, in my opinion.

  31. Here’s a thought…

    The last player that NYR drafted after falling so far, was Cherepanov. Maybe Slats’ moronic ass thought drafting one of these D-men would have meant their careers would have ended.

    That’s how Slats thinks. Old man brains are not good!

  32. the real problem is that many of the eastern teams are improving already this summer. the weaker teams like Atl, TB, and Fla and Isles are all improved, boston is better, flyers improved in the playoffs, so did Mtl. Nj, Pitt and Wash are always there. Ott and Buff and Canes are bubble

  33. If we could get Savard back for peanuts I say we HAVE to do it. It’s going to cost us a Dubinsky or a Callahan to get a center of that caliber otherwise.Savard is a decent fit for Torts’ system and is a decent enough age that he probably can and wil be valuable for the duration of his contract at least.

  34. Old man brains are not good <—- awesome lol.

    BTW- exactly how has NJ improved? because they got Arnott back in another attempt to recreate their past success?

  35. they say that Leafs are after Savard, but I agree. if you can get him for peanuts, then he certainly is better than all the #1 centers the rangers used last season

  36. slappy, I guess I didn’t make my point clear enough. You don’t know!!!!!!

    I don’t know if McIlrath is going to turn out to be a good pick or not and I’m certainly not defending the pick. And I’m not disagreeing about Slats, certainly not …

    but you can’t base it on who got selected for World Juniors. Christian Dube lit it up at World Juniors. Brendl starred at World Juniors. I think Mike Mottau did too.

  37. I did not say NJ was improved. read it again. I said “NJ, Pitt and Wash are always there”

  38. John Harkes has just won a fan! Me! He just complimented the Yankees, saying they command respect, and just seeing their pinstripes calls for respect!

  39. The only way for this to stop. The refereeing blunders. Mexico needs to walk off the pitch and forfeit the game.

    And say We Will Not be cheated. That will do too much damage to the game for Sepp ****** Loser Blatter to not change things.

  40. 2 gigantic matchups in the same day in an event that happens once every 4 years. And both matchups to be determined by referees. Unless Mexico comes back and wins fairly. But I had and have no desire to go against any team – perhaps the scummy Germans.

  41. Geezus! I have watched over 500 football games in the last 2 years, and Ive never seen that mistake. And Mexico did the same thing earlier in the game but did not get cost a goal by it that time. Argentina – onward and upward.

  42. The more I thought about this pick, after hearing all the initial negativity being spewed by the commentators, the more I liked this pick. For years we have been SCREAMING for a tough, punishing, clear the crease D-Man who will finally protect our best player (HANK)from being run & pummeled with impunity.

    I have HATED how easy a team we are to play against & soft, & if this guy lives up to the potential that Gordie Clark & his scouts see, than I am 100% on board.

    I actually love a defenseman that actually plays great defense, hits people & doesn’t cough the puck up, whether he can score or not!

    In Clark we trust! If he feels strongly enough about this guy to take him over the many “safer”, picks available, that’s good enough for me. Later, as I heard he was going to be picked up by one of the next 3 teams picking, I felt even better about them not trading down to try & get him.

    Like most of you all, I’ve never seen any of our picks play, but
    based on the quality we’ve drafted recently, I’m very optimistic about this crop.

    Stay with the youth approach & we’ll soon be past the first round (or less) flameout path we’ve been on.

  43. Ria

    dont be like that! we only talk soccer here once every 4 years…plenty of soccer fans here, btw :)

  44. >>Tevez was offside by a full yard

    Offsides are judgement calls; they’re not always accurate. The linesman missed that one, which happens quite often. It really isn’t as big of a deal as these announcers are making it out to be. How many times have we seen referees decide matches on erroneous penalty calls? No suddenly, everyone is calling for the use of “technology”. Oh please! Just as in life, sometimes you get the breaks, sometimes you suffer injustice. This is football!

  45. >>PLEASE stop with the soccer carcillo this is a HOCKEY blog thank you very much

    Right! Let’s discuss another Seinfeld episode instead.

  46. “Right! Let’s discuss another Seinfeld episode instead”

    Better yet, why don’t we all just talk aboot the hottest women on the planet, while the ladies talk aboot Avery, and other guys.

    It’s gym class all over again!

  47. Jbytes

    I agree that offsides are judgment calls – if the offsides is mere inches. Tevez was offside by a full yard. And his score was the reason why offsides exists. If Tevez doesnt touch the ball, one of the 2 Mexico defenders gets to it to clear it. Instead, it turns into a goal.

    While Argentina has clearly been the better team, I refuse to say that the Tevez goal did not change the complexion of the game. I refuse to let referees off the hook.

    Of course bad calls happen in everything, but I have been calling for instant replay and consequences for referees forever. It may be just a game to some, but it’s not just a game to all.

  48. Mike Dunham….those were the days I longed for the Rangers to throw the season and get the number 1 pick.

  49. I wouldn’t give Artie up for Savard. No way!!

    And the worst Ranger of all time is Dredden. I don’t care who came before my time. The way he plays, the amount he’s making! He’s just flat out the worst Ranger of all time.

    And he’s a druggie!

  50. I completely agree with Tucson Ken and Carp. I choose to be optimistic about McIlrath. You know, I remember when Tom Renney was our coach and everyone was screaming that they wanted more passion from the coach. We got fire and passion with Torts and everybody complains about that. I’m convinced that, as Ranger fans, we’re just never happy.

  51. Worst Ranger – Donald BroQueer!

    Anisimov for Savard? are you mad? Savard is one hit away from joining Eric Lindros on infomous vegetable of the year list!

  52. “Of course, if we were all happy, it’d make for a pretty boring blog”

    Exactly.

    By the way, what’s with all the Eddie’s on this blog? I was the only one for the longest time, and now there has been aboot 4 or 5.

    Fuggin Twilight movies!

  53. What do you mean? Your name is ORR. Anyway, the other ones are imposters. I’m the real Eddie!

  54. Also, If we get Savard, and he stays healthy, it still wont matter. By the time we get good enough to win the Cup, he’ll be nearly useless.

    And Artie might be good, could be great, you never know.

    I’ll stick with Artie. Let the kids play!

    No Savard! No Lecavalier! No Spezza! No Richards! No Ribeiro! Nobody!

  55. “Lol, If my first name was Orr, that would be kind of funny.”

    Can’t argue with you there.

    “I’m glad my name isn’t Wade!”

    Me too! : )

  56. “Dallas needed a franchise goalie”

    Dallas is banking on Lehtonen to take over the number 1 and regain his early prediction of being a top goalie from his early days in Atlanta. They still have Turco… and they drafted a goalie in the first or second round a couple years ago. That is why a lot of people were surprised that they took Campbell 11th overall this year!

    They wanted McIlrath too… and there was more than one person saying that they would have taken McIlrath at 11 overall had the Rangers not taken him. What does that say about Fowler and Gormley?… I think it says more about McIlrath.

    Dallas actually drafted three defensmen after taking the goalie in the first round… interesting stuff

    @@

  57. Tank The Season on

    When healthy Savard is a top playmaking center. Anisimov may not amount to anything more than a 20-30 point a season player, or he could be the next Mats Sundin. If we don’t get a center this offseason then honestly we should wait until we can sign Malkin for nothing and become the NY Ice Knicks.

  58. Simple the Ranger managerment has no direction..
    The reason the most teams didn’t Fowler is because they were deep with defenseman..

  59. the only way to get richards is by trading rozival and his contract. rozi 2 years at 5mil richards 1 yr at 7.8 get this done

  60. Tank The Season on

    Dallas won’t deal Richards he is coming off a great season and is in a contract year. If they fall out of contention they will look to deal him at the deadline for a package including a first round pick. In short we won’t be getting him now, and if we get him at all it will be next summer as a UFA.

  61. Tank The Season on

    If you want to think about a center we can sign to a cap friendly deal, here’s a name nobody on here has mentioned: Kyle Wellwood.

  62. please no savard and hos 7 yr deal. the cap hit at 4mil is friendly the term is a disaster.

    play the kids finish 27th out of 30 and bottom out.

    we suck and will not compete in the east until dru rozi and dredden are gone

  63. bull dog line on

    Carp,
    nice job with the draft coverage. what are you hearing, if anything, on the Rangers free agent plans?

  64. You know Carp

    every now and then we see an intellectually inspired, and insiders view point emerge in the lines of this posting and
    our eyes are opened to reality instead of day dreaming or fantasizing.

    That is as concise and all encompassing review of what has actually taken place in the halls of the NHL for a day.

    I congratulate you on your presentation because as they say, brevity being the soul of wit, it is also the way to express a reality without being submerged by it. Becoming captivated by the trivia and superficial aspects of this frame work is easy to do. ( Oh, tell me – I do it all the time!)
    Bravo.

  65. Obviously it’ll be a while until we know if McIlrath can make it in the NHL, but he seems like a good pick. His stats are solid, and on more than one of his youtube fight clips, the announcers refer to him as one of the toughest fighters in the WHL. I could be wrong about this, but isn’t the WHL the most rough and tumble of the three junior leagues? At any rate, he’s a tough, gritty defenseman, and I think everyone knows this team needs those very, very badly. If he does make the team somewhere down the line, I think he’ll complement Del Zotto’s ability to either start the rush or make a stretch pass up ice.

  66. Good evening all! been a busy weekend so just barely catching up here. Carp, fab, as always.

    I just want to know one thing…is wicky happy? is McIlrath crease clearing????

  67. Carp…I don’t think your post could have hit the nail on the head anymore than it did. That was exactly what was in my head and you just put it into words for me.

  68. wicky (ILB is NO girardi!!!) on

    mama
    yep, house went up in cheers when we saw the pick. It was refreshing to see the rangers actually draft a player that filled a need (after the first 3 picks IMHO, everyone kind of flatlined out) rather than pick a clone of other guys in the organization. It would be nice to see him immediately because the big club still needs serious help on the blueline with ruggedness, but he is probably a couple years out at this point.

    So glad mexico is out of the WC, absolutely my least fave team by far.

  69. wicky (ILB is NO girardi!!!) on

    hit enter too soon carp, any ideas or little whispers coming out of ranger land about the RFA’s????

  70. bulldog, fran, blogmama, NYRGuy, wicky, etc. Thank you.

    The only thing I hear about the RFAs is that it is going to take a while. Maybe a long while. I think McDonagh is getting closer. I expect Staal and Girardi to take time. Sounds like the GM wants to play hardball, and the kids have no leverage until camp begins. Lisin is being cut loose. I think tomorrow is the deadling for tendering qualifying offers to maintain rights to the RFAs.

  71. wicky (ILB is NO girardi!!!) on

    thanks carp. I was hoping we would have locked prust up by now though.

  72. I would like all the negative nancies to please pick another team to root for. You think the isles are so great because they have Tavares, okposo, baily and nino? Then go be an isle fan! They got those players because they sucked and got top lottery picks, not because they dint have sather.

    C9,

    either stop with the “scummy German” crap or please explain why you feel the need to keep saying it.

    Worst ranger?? I gotta say redden because of all the ramifications of his contract. But brashear was a hard pill to swallow.

  73. the problem is, unless they offer the moon, why would Prust sign now? Likewise, unless Prust wants to play for bargain-basement money, why would the Rangers sign him now?

    This is how it works.

  74. wicky (ILB is NO girardi!!!) on

    good point. I just hate the thought of us possibly losing him (and shelley for that matter) . If they were signed, it would be better, but of course it is a business and not about the fans or some of them feeling comfortable about contract situations.

    thanks Carp

  75. oh poor cccp is upset that i want dubinsky traded

    so i ask anew is he traded yet

    CCCP
    June 27th, 2010 at 3:32 pm
    nose picker

    is he traded yet
    ——
    no luck getting laid yet? :)

  76. I’ve said this before sather is doing the right things when it comes to his RFA’s. I agree they all deserve a raise but this is the only time the team has leverage. These guys need to pay there dues before they get the moon. They will get there money. Danny G was making 700 grand and sather doubled his money off one seeason. We need to keep our young guys cheap. Sather is doing the right thing. When it comes to the RFA’s I mean. Can’t speak for anything else.

  77. nose picker

    you are the one frustrated…not me.

    and based on your question, I assume that you haven’t gotten laid yet.

  78. carp

    does cccp posts comply with the terms of service or do regulars get to insult others at will

  79. Tomorrow is the deadline to qualify RFA’s I believe. Lisin isnt getting a qualifier but I would assume Staal, Girardi, Prust, and Christensen will all at least be qualified to prolong the negotiations. Im not sure how the organization feels about the other RFA’s like Crowder, Sauer, Ambuhl and Dupont

    I think Lombardi would be the perfect UFA Center to sign. He fits the style the Rangers are moving towards. Fast, tenacious, good work ethic. We have some very speedy kids in Gabby, MZA, Kreider, Bourque, C. Thomas,Yogan, and Fasth

    Honestly, with Sangs being traded I feel we have MORE Stay-at-Home guys then Offensive D-men. Staal, Girardi, McDonagh, Potter, Sauer, Valentenko, Klassen, Maggio, Kundratek are all slated to be solid D-men NOT OFfensive Powerhouses like MDZ or Gilroy are supposed to be.

    We needed Fowler more then McIlrath …

    Valentenko will make the team out of camp this year and all this kid does is Hit people … we have tougher guys in the system than we think

  80. Olga Folkyerself on

    I always considered you a regular nose picker… just don’t pick too much, or your head will collapse.

  81. roc,

    what bugs me is that sather plays hardball with our rfa’s
    yet quickly overpays for any ufa’s.
    now, it’s his “right” as gm of the club
    but i would think it looks bad for players on our team
    and works against us with ufa agents

    of course, if you look at previous negotiations, sather ends up overpaying when our player finally signs a contract — hank, dubi, rozy

  82. olga – you’re too kind. both of us should use soap and water after we’re done doing what we’re doing

  83. Olga Folkyerself on

    jpg- You’re right on the button. If that idiot Sather didn’t overpay so much for over the hill UFA’s then he wouldn’t have to play “hardball” with his own RFA’s. Sather treats his draft picks like dirt and rolls out the red carpet to UFA’s.
    If you’re treated bad by your own team management, and locked into an organization that seems to be going nowhere, why wouldn’t you jump at a UFA offer from another team when the time comes?
    Go ahead, trade Dubinsky. Do him a favor.

    FIRE SATHER.

  84. speZzZza? NYR ZzZz " Fowler sucks " … says Greg L. on

    Noser Picker is basicly ” calling down Dubinsky” and he deserves being Coat Checked by the man ..T !!!

  85. speZzZza? NYR ZzZz " Fowler sucks " … says Greg L. on

    Olga , stop acting like you care. No one cares what a Chicago fan thinks. Really now.

  86. Olga Folkyerself on

    Greg- I wasn’t talking to you, unless the word “idiot” in my last post was what caught your attention. Sorry, I was referring to that other idiot, Sather. When I’m talking to you I’ll specifically say “idiot Greg”. OK?

  87. wicky (ILB is NO girardi!!!) on

    somerset
    I’m not picking a fight here and really do respect your input, that being said…..I agree about lombardi, about the d men….well, of the ones listed that I have seen play staal, girardi, potter, sauer…they are all vanilla. No opposing forward (speculation here on my part) comes through the neutral zone thinking, oh $&^#, where is potter at on the ice, he is going to flatten me.

    I would have to guess if we needed fowler more in this organization right now, we would not have drafted Mcilrath. Again, like many have stated, we will not know for a few years if it was a good pick. So, the first 3 picks aside, every team either picked for team needs (seems pretty smart to me), didn’t feel as though fowler and gormley were as good as the players they selected (picking best available once top three blue chippers were gone), or were all just dumb picks and they fell too far.

    Any way you slice it, they fell farther than they were projected to fall. The “experts” are going to say oh my god, what a horrible miss by teams…why are they saying that? Well they are the “experts” who said they were going to go top 5 and were wrong, they went top 15. If mcilrath had been projected by the “experts” to go in the top 5 and fell into the top 15 they would be saying the same thing about him as they are about fowler and gormley now.

    Lombardi would be a good pick up (as long as we don’t give him 8 mil a season.

    ZZZZZZZZZZ
    woo hoo, what’s up man??

  88. speZzZza? NYR ZzZz " Fowler sucks " … says Greg L. on

    Olga;
    Isnt it like real life when yer harder on yer own kids then you are to others? Sather expects our own to take discounts. If they wanna be Rangers then they will take the discount. Sather had to pay “market prices” other GMs wanted Gomez,Drury and other garbage we won over them. We really were the ones who lost out but at the time..those guys were priced accordingly to what the market was asking for. Those guys turned out be losers because they sucked NOT Sather. Anyone with any hockey knowlege would know .Your ignorence is amusing cuz all this is comming from a Chicago fan …a band jumping one .

  89. speZzZza? NYR ZzZz " Fowler sucks " … says Greg L. on

    Yo Olga , I’d be saying MORON if Im refering to you. Just remeber if I didnt say MORON then I wasnt talking to you.

  90. speZzZza? NYR ZzZz " Fowler sucks " … says Greg L. on

    YOOO wicky!!!! Awsome pick!!! Risky but its what we always needed!!

  91. Olga Folkyerself on

    Hey Greg! Do you type before your brain starts or do you really believe that carcillo you just posted?

    BTW, Chicago has four Cups now- same as the Rangers. Wanna race to number five?

  92. wicky (ILB is NO girardi!!!) on

    zzzzz
    you think slatipuss is going to make a trade for a centre or are we hoping we can get lombardi???

  93. I’m guessing, hoping, that it’s the heat everywhere that’s making folks go off the rails? I mean really, if Tony in AZ can maintain his happy attitude…?!

    Give it a rest all, eh? not that you’ll listen, but I hope you do….go visit kitty stew at sister blog and cool off!

  94. wicky (ILB is NO girardi!!!) on

    mama
    I just asked about a trade, that’s all….sorry, I’ll go cool off!!

  95. Olga Folkyerself on

    mama- I’m cool. I won’t call greg an idiot anymore tonight. He knows what he is…

  96. hey wicky: “but he is probably a couple years out at this point….”

    which of the wicksters will be in college before he crease clears for the Rangers :)

    (just giving you carcillo :)

  97. speZzZza? NYR ZzZz " Fowler sucks " … says Greg L. on

    Wicky , Im on the Spezzzza train and dumping bad contracts to get him( Minors). I want Dubinsky to have his break out year but the way things go around here im thinking our manangment wants a proven #1 center.( Dubi could be traded?) I dont really think lombardi fits that bill. So I dont want him.

    Olga ,Chicago had Bufuglin and a jacked up Hossa . I ‘ll take yer bet cuz Chicago aint winning anutha cup !!! This was Thier year and I cant see them, getting past Detriot or the Ducks next year. Chicago are 1 cup in a million years wonders. The Hawks wont win again…hahahaha thats a joke. They cant afford that team again. The Hawks will go down as “paper champs” the same as Tampa bay and Carolina!!! Chicago bores me..bores you too cuz yer here and not on thier blog. Chicago sucks compared to us. Rangers rule and Olga drools.

  98. wicky (ILB is NO girardi!!!) on

    mama
    oh sure, just pile on. Everyone already hates me here because I said the rangers would pick him and slatipuss listens to me a lot you know!!!

    Hopefully they will all be done with college by then!

  99. All, we like and encourage good debate here, even amusing digs at each other sometimes. But nobody, especially mama, likes when it devolves to carcillo. capiche?

  100. wicky (ILB is NO girardi!!!) on

    zzzz
    I’d love spezza as well, but not sure what it would take to get him and we certainly need to dump a couple of contracts some how.

    ILB
    you are no girardi!!!

  101. aww, wick, sorry, I wasn’t piling on at all! just joking! it must be the heat (Olga, take another cool drink of water)….and listen to ilb too!

    (Thanks pal :)

  102. wicky (ILB is NO girardi!!!) on

    who is this ILB character!!! I heard he was just an urban myth!!!

  103. speZzZza? NYR ZzZz " Almost free agent frenzzzy " … says Greg L. on

    Im not a really big fan on Spezzza but the guys gifted. He could go along way in keeping Gaborik on a scoring streak or two. Spezzza is still young and in his prime. He is costly but does produce. We need a bonafied Center bad!!

  104. Ah, wicky, the urban myth comes through with info :) Long live urban myths! and their French-Canadian friends!
    Bon soir mes amis. Et TA!

  105. Olga Folkyerself on

    Sorry greg, but when I get totally exhausted celebrating winning the Stanley Cup, I come here to rest.

    The Bet’s on! I’ll even give you a 3 year grace period, just for having Sather! Only one rule though, whichever team is lower in the overall league standings on any Ranger Game night, that person has to acknowledge the superiority of the better team publicly and sincerely.

  106. Pretty decent stuff by Rodent, by the way. But I’m too tired to discuss it today. Good night…

  107. wicky (ILB is NO girardi!!!) on

    Not sure I agree with his “assessment” of the AO vs montoya debate, it seems rather ridiculous actually.

    that’s one laurel mama!!!

    I think you and carp should do a video chat so the minions can see the figureheads and calm things down.

  108. Yeah, wicky, you can skip the first part alltogether. I thougt parts 2 and 3 were interesting.

    Did I just laurel?
    Good night!

  109. Olga Folkyerself on

    For the first few picks, I agree that you take the best talent available. but somewhere around the 5-10 pick (depending on the strength of the draft) teams start to look to their own needs as opposed to the “best available”. Every one knew Ovechkin was going high, he would be picked even if they needed a goalie. Once the cream has been skimmed, it depends on your needs, and the talent of your scouting staff.

  110. wicky (ILB is NO girardi!!!) on

    this just in from twitter:

    byndblueshirts
    UHC Dynamo officially terminated #NYR D prospect Pavel Valentenko’s contract on Friday.
    3 minutes ago via web

  111. wicky (ILB is NO girardi!!!) on

    wow, when mama says go cool off….people listen…….Hello……hello….???????

  112. Olga Folkyerself on

    Greg? where’d you go? Are you out looking for a 4 year old to explain my bet post to you? Or are you still on page 1 of Rodent’s post?

    I’ll wait. I can keep busy looking at the Black Hawks Cap problems vs. the Rangers Cap problems. Trade ya! Huet for Dubinsky, Rangers need a backup goalie, and some of you guys don’t seem to like him much…

  113. What is it with everybody getting into spats…

    And I’m not at the center of them. LOL!

    Come on guys, we all love each other here. We unite together as Rangers fans!

  114. per djoos

    You struck a chord there. You could rummage around for months on the bad signings of this team, and still not be able to make a decision…but I cannot find anything to dis
    agree with your choice of Ozolinsh. That entire episode was
    nauseating.

  115. With MDZ already in the team and the prospect of adding McDonough to the mix in September, we didnt need another puck moving/PP QB defenseman, we are severely lacking in big punishing defensmen both in the team and the minors. McIlrath fits the bill if he fulfils the promise and its only a reach if he’s a bust.
    We wont know for 2-3 years how he’s going to work out.

    In the meantime the UFA market opens in a couple of days and i seriously hope the reports on Shelley arent true. Larry Brooks makes it sound like Slats will let him hit the market instead of offering him a 1 year deal now, although it does sound like he wants a raise to the $1m+ bracket.

  116. It’s amazing. We cannot even get the likes of Jody frickin Shelley to take a reasonable deal with us. Who is Shelley to want more than $1 million. What a joke. Seriously.

  117. Well it doesn’t really say that he’s asking for $1.5. Brooks just uses that as a shot at Sather since that is what we’re paying Brashear. If he wants $1.5, he can go elsewhere. I don’t care how good he is in the locker room. And if Girardi wants $3mil he can go with him. Prust and Staal should be the priorities.

  118. Carp, great article. I agree with everything you said. It’s not like the NFL where they are drafting 21 and 22 year olds that will play in their first year. They’re drafting 17 and 18 year old kids. Some may grow into bonifide NHL players – some not.

  119. Sometimes Larry Brooks gets on these campaigns that makes it sound like “If the Rangers don’t do “this”, then they are stupid.”

    Whether it’s signing a free agent or keeping one of their own he’s got his opinion and think that it’s the only answer to the team’s problems. Jody Shelley? Meh. Nice player to have around, but it won’t win or lose you a Cup.

  120. Actually Shelley could help you win a cup if you’re good enough to win a cup. He fills a roll on and off the ice. But on this team at this point in time, he’s not worth overpaying for.

  121. Shelley is crazy to expect over a 1 million dollars. We have plenty of kids in Hartford to play the 4th line in the 500k – 700k range.

    Byers, Weise, maybe even Dupont can play 4th line minutes.

    Staal needs to take that 3.5/4 yr deal thats being reported … that is fair market value for him.

    IMO, I just think he doesnt want to be the least paid Staal and make more than his brother Jordan (who makes 4 mil a year)

  122. 3.5 million for Staal is more then fair. True he’s our defenseman but like I said this is the only time the team has leverage. Plus no Norris trophy nominations and no all stAr games on record yet!! He will have his day but he needs to earn it just spittle more.

  123. but that’s what free agency is about. fair, schmair. You get as much as you can when you can get it. Shelley isn’t coming back for under $1M, and that will be a difficult piece to replace because of what he meant to his teammates (and his coach). I think they should pay him what they paid Brashear.

    Staal is going to get as much as he possibly can get, whatever it takes to get it. That’s how the game is played. It isn’t greed or disloyalty or anything else. It’s what the CBA allows, and the players would be foolish to not use it.

    I know that if my boss wanted to pay me what I’m making now, and I knew that I had a chance to squeeze him for more, a lot more, maybe twice or three times as much, I’d do it.

    (Hope my boss wasn’t just reading that).

  124. Was it the heat or what yesterday? So touchy. Carp thank you for setting everyone straight. Your article reminded everyone just how tenuous draft picks are. To me the McIlrath pick is a good one Gordie Clark is a good judge of talent. McIlrath is of the size that in the past everyone but the Ranger’s seemed to select. I know I’ve said to myself why can’t the Rangers draft some size? They have now. I hope he turns out to be a winner. It’s really a treat when any draft picks turns out well. I always think of Lundquist as a prime example. Stay cool.

  125. There is also something called team concept, Carp. That’s when you take a little less so the team can sign some important free agents and improve your chances to win. Unfortunately, this concept isn’t applicable to our team. Not when you have bozos making 5-6-7 mil or more and continue to be role players. So that is what your young guys learn. It’s too bad. I don”t blame them for trying to get as much as they can.

  126. so the kids are on the ice learning how to figure skate. WOO HOO! The season has started, kind of.

  127. ilb, that doesn’t happen anywhere but in New Jersey. and you’re right … if I’m Staal, or anybody else, why should I take less when Redden and Drury and Rozsival are making that kind of money and playing the way they do, and when Gaborik is making that kind of money and not showing up for big games? and when Brashear is in Hartford taking up cap space?

    why?

    I wouldn’t.

  128. Team loyalty extends to more than just the players. Sather isn’t exactly loyal to his players. But as to his players, ask Brian Leetch, Kasparaitis, Holik, Ortmeyer, Jagr, Shanahan, Betts, etc. if he was loyal to them. And if Sather really cared about the team, he’d resign. If it’s just business to management, than it should be just business to players.

  129. Carp, actually it also happens in Detroit- Datsyuk, Franzen and Zetterberg all took less than their market value just so they can sign everyone a couple of years back

  130. ok, so it might happen on teams with future hall of famers that are inches away from (another) stanley cup. but it won’t happen on a team miles away loaded with underachievers making two or three times their own market value.

  131. plus, if I’m staal, for example, why should I take a hometeam discount just so they can go out and blow the money by overpaying another free agent who won’t make much difference, if any?

    Brodeur, as another example, took less so they could keep a great team together, as did those Red Wings. Not so they could add another piece of overpriced junk.

  132. That’s one of multiple reasons why those teams are successful. We can talk all we want about being proud to be a Ranger, but until the management doesn’t change their approach, the team mentality will remain the same. Where is Olga when we need him?

  133. kc some list

    the only ones really worth anything were leetch and jags. shanahan was a shell of himself by then.

  134. wicky (ILB is NO girardi!!!) on

    Well, I for one think shelley and prust a very important……..is shelley worth 3 mil a season, unfortunately no, but I would sure as hell pay him the same amount as brashear made. The thing that worries me a bit about the whole situation is boogard, who if I am not mistaken is a free agent now. Slatipuss, when it comes to free agency, always seems to go with the “name” (which is great if we are talking volchenkov, but not boogard).

    I agree with ILB about the hometown discount, I understand that most players want to get all they can and the heck with hometown discounts or cutting a deal for their current team, which to me is just sad. Just shows the NHL is a microcosm of society, because most people in society don’t care about anyone else but themselves and how things impact them only, not the “greater good”.

    I didn’t like what dubi did last season holding out, and I’m not going to like it if staal (he is a 3 mil a season guy at best right now, I think 3.5 is a bit hight but would sign him to that if girardi is not coming back) does it either. Mcdonut better be careful, or he may never get on the team.

  135. Leethhalloffame on

    No way I’m trading Dubi who still has an upside for a backup goalie who might play 10-20 games. Give me a break!

  136. Leeth- did we miss a new story about trading Dubi for a back up goalie? That’s a new one!

  137. i badly want him traded but even i don’t want to trade him for a backup goalie

  138. when staal sees guys like redden and rozival getting paid higher he has every right to ask for 4.5 or maybe 5. chances are he wont get it but i dont blame him one bit because its our gm whose a putz and created this culture on this screwed up team we all love

  139. wicky (ILB is NO girardi!!!) on

    tank
    I less concerned at this point about what he does thursday as what he does with our current RFAs.

    I just think a player has to say look, I’m going to take less to play here and start the change within and quit worrying about what everyone else makes and just do what’s best for the rangers. Then maybe another guy or two will do the same. Slats doesn’t appear to be changing his ways concerning paying too much cash for some players.

  140. wicky (ILB is NO girardi!!!) on

    here is a couple of tweets of value:
    NYP_Brooksie
    No similarity at all between Dubinsky/Staal talks. NYR hammered Dubie all last summer. Have already made very reasonable 1st offer to Staal.

    If I read that correctly, brooks makes it sound like staal is out of line.

    wyshynski
    KotaLOLik RT @TSNBobMcKenzie Waivers, likely for buyout purposes: Cheechoo, Ott; Nokelainen, Vandermeer, Phx; Koistinen, Fla; Kotalik, Cgy.

  141. PRAISE FOR SATHER

    only this time we could say that the deal for jokinen and prust for kotalik and higgins was awesome

    and now that kotalik is being bought out sather gets an A

    too bad he gets and F for the contract initially

  142. wicky (ILB is NO girardi!!!) on

    this staal thing worries me quite a bit as far as free agent dollars go as well.

  143. Bottom line is we are desperate for offense.

    Trading an offensive defenseman away and drafting a shut down guy (whom we have in Staal) is just a head scratcher

  144. Sather's WrapUp on

    Uncle Glennie- Hero: Here we are, Ranger Fans, day four on our continued quest to get the Rangers right back to 8th place. OK Muck, it your turn to discuss our latest RF… Where’s Muck? He’s in the bathroom again? I don’t think it’s his prostate this time, he got a funny look on his face and took right off when you mentioned Betty White yesterday…

    Ah, there you are Muck, Now what do you propose we do about our RFA’s this year? You know we’re a little pressed for Cap Space again. So we’re going to have to tighten our belts a little. Check under the sofa cushions in my office for loose change… Muck, who dressed you this morning? Your belt is all twisted and missing a few loops…

    Muck: (pulling a long sheet of toilet paper stuck to the sole of his shoe) Well, I’ve been giving this a lot of thought, here are my recommendations:

    Ranger RFAs:
    F Andres Ambuhl, Lowball him.
    F Erik Christensen, Threaten to send him down then Lowball him.
    F Paul Crowder, Tell him 1 more year in Hartford, then Lowball him.
    F Brodie Dupont, Lowball him. Twice.
    F Enver Lisin, Gonzo. (I learned that from Edzo)
    F Brandon Prust, Threaten to release him, then Lowball him.
    D Daniel Girardi, Threaten to trade him, then Lowball him.
    D Ilkka Heikkinen, Show him a plane ticket to Russia, Lowball him.
    D Mike Sauer, Threaten to send to Juniors, then Lowball him.
    D Pavel Valentenko Lowball him. Then pay him with Rubles.
    D Marc Staal, Tell him you’re trading for his brothers, then Lowball him.

    UGH: OK. Good Job, Muck! Your fly’s unzipped. Ha! Made you look! That’s settled then… You really like the lowball, don’t you?

    Muck: Lowball in the corner pocket…

    Next Time- UFA’s

  145. Carp and ilb

    It does happen in another place, for each of their sports teams. Players retire to save them money and cap space. Players take discounts to play for them coming off MVP seasons. Players take less money to play for them than for other teams for “the chance to win.” I wont mention what place, but Im sure you can figure it out… :)

  146. But not the always classy Allan Houston. Gotta love Allan. Despite never being able to play again, he never retired to help us, so he could take his $20 million a year.

  147. CR, where? I know you’re not talking about A-Rod, CC, A.J., Teixeira, and so on. I know Pettitte took the discount (along with the HGH) but Posada didn’t. Rivera did. Cano won’t when his time is up.

  148. There’s hardly a great incentive to take a hometown discount with the Yankees, is there? That hard salary cap system they have in MLB (ahem) doesn’t exactly make an agent’s job difficult if the Yankees are interested in signing or keeping a player…

  149. LOL Carp. Why do you have to be so anti-Yankee? Is it purposely to get to me? Rivera is the highest paid closer in baseball in history, hardly a discount. And HGH twice doesnt make Pettitte a habitual cheat; it makes him human. Unfortunately, the NY teams cant play jedi mind tricks and brainwash their players to do what’s best for the team.

    Bill Belichick: “Ted Johnson, you need to go out there and play despite your severe concussions and possible brain damage.”

    Ted Johnson: “Sir, yes sir. Winning for the Patriots is far more important than my livelihood and brain capacity.”

  150. wicky (ILB is NO girardi!!!) on

    nazzy was pretty classy with what he did.

    from twitter:
    snyrangersblog
    Buzz: Erik Christensen Not Getting Qualified? – According to Nick Kypreos on twitter, Erik Christensen isn’t likely … http://ow.ly/17UYXS

  151. Taking HGH *makes* you human? Oh, I’ve completely misunderstood the “human growth” part of the name all this time…

  152. wicky (ILB is NO girardi!!!) on

    and a draft grade from twitter link:
    snyrangersblog
    Read: Rangers Draft Grade – At ESPN Gare Joyce gives out grades based on this weekends draft selections. He gives th… http://ow.ly/17UYXR

  153. wicky (ILB is NO girardi!!!) on

    huge relief here:

    stevezipay
    NYR’s Brandon Prust will get Q-offer; Erik Christensen won’t, as Rangers hope for two-year deal

  154. wicky (Prust will get QO!!!) on

    craig button says rangers need d men that are “uncomfortable” to play against because of the forwards in eastern conference (on NHL live)

  155. LW – Im getting better at being able to ignore stupid comments meant to solely stir up trouble! So this will be my final post on the topic! I know you already understood this, but I’ll put it in simpler terms: Pettitte made a mistake by taking HGH. Making a mistake is what makes Pettitte human.

  156. Andy Roddick blows it, yet again.

    This guy fuggin kills me!!

    How do you continuously lose when you have BROOKLYN DECKER sitting in your corner?!? Unbelievable. I’d have the strength of 10 coked out Dredden’s if she was in my corner.

  157. Thanks Carp! Great work on your coverage of the draft, btw.

    I havent read all the comments, but is Fowler NHL-ready or close to NHL-ready?

    I figured that if the Bruins wanted Fowler at #4, then he was NHL-ready.

    I have no problem with our pick of Dylan, no matter how he turns out.

  158. wicky (Prust will get QO!!!) on

    The thing that makes me wonder about this whole situation is this…..is slatipuss trying to redo the whole blueline??? I mean maybe the staal thing is nothing, just business. The organization is pushing this mcdonut thing pretty hard it seems with talk of him making the big club this fall, where is his spot? You haven’t heard a peep out of the rumour mill really about rozy or redden or any rangers d man. You honestly have to think that redden is going to htfd or something, torts just despises him, It can’t work with him on the rangers right??? Is it TOO QUIET??? It just seems overly weird to me, but maybe it is just me!

  159. Orr

    You have heard that sex the night before a game or match isn’t a good thing, right?

    Many players refuse to have sex prior to big games. It’s documented. Im serious.

  160. CR

    I’ve heard of that. Sadly, I noticed that Roddick kept scratching his pecker during the match. I don’t know what to make of that though. I don’t want to know, actually. What ever it is, I hope he didn’t catch it from Brooklyn.

  161. training camp on

    redden can’t be sent down until training camp. teams can exceed the cap by ten percent during the summer

  162. As I recall, Paul Mara took less money to stay with the Rangers. So it did happen once, anyway.

    Also, I know we have cap problems, but is $1.5 million really that much in this day and age?

  163. wicky (Prust will get QO!!!) on

    ok, off to work. need to do some schedule changing so i can be off thursday/friday.

    You guys keep slatipuss in line!!

    Later

  164. bull dog line on

    I liked Shelley as well, but I don’t understand the big deal if we lose him,it’s just Jody friggin Shelley!

  165. bull dog line on

    Staal at 4 mil per, is a big mistake. make him earn it, give him a 1 year deal. if he turns into the shut down player a lot of people already think he is, than give him his money. my bet is that what we see right now from him , is what we are going to get.

  166. No, $1.5m might not be that much, but as (relatively) impressive as Shelley was, a 34-year-old tough guy doubling his contract? I can’t believe any team would really be offering him that on Thursday. But then I’d have said the same about giving a 37-year-old tough guy a two-year, $2.8m deal 12 months ago…

  167. The way i read the Christensen thing was that he was not qualified because they were working out a 2 or 3 year deal for him and they dont expect much competition.

    I’m glad Prust got qualified as he’s a bargain for $600k and could snag a few goals too.

    As for Shelley, lets not overpay, if its 1 year and a million or less OK, over a million let him walk, character/locker room presence/whatever.

  168. anything more than 1 year for christenson is dumb. don’t let him get comfortable. only reason he played well for us was this was his last shot at nhl.

  169. It is just Jody Shelley, but if he leaves you have to replace him and it’s going to cost you more than $1M to get a proven enforcer, and more than $1.5M if the guy you get can also play, and probably more than that if he’s a good team guy.

    I say pay Shelley what Brashear got. At least.

  170. TheREALMikeyNJ on

    I just hate specualting on what the stupid tomato face is gonna do.

    I mean did anyone see him at the draft, he looked half drunk, and half like he just had a stroke.

    How do you go to a internationally televised event in a wrinkled sport jacekt that looks like he just unpacked it when your getting paid millions a year?

    Dear God:

    PLease take Glen Sather away from NY forever. You dont have to take him to heaven, hell is fine too, and if the Devil doesnt want him, make him the GM of some other team, but PLEASE get him out of NY

    Thank you, I love, you, your servant

    EVERY RANGER FAN

  171. Tank The Season on

    Derek Boogaard is a UFA for what it is worth. I’d rather have him than Shelley, and Gaborik probably would too.

  172. Carp – I can’t see it’ll cost $1m plus to get a proven enforcer (at least it shouldn’t, given last year’s debacle). The list below (courtesy of capgeek.com) is current or most recent cap hit for similar players around the league – acknowledging that not all are comparable by age, skill, size etc.

    Other than Chris Neil (a much better player than Shelley, but still arguably overpaid), Brashear and Laraque (both virtually out of the league), Orr (staring at Megan Fox pics while being overpaid) and Fedoruk (overpaid and metal plate in his face), nobody’s getting that much coin for that role.

    Just pray to God Sather isn’t turning away from Shelley to get Boogaard, who can’t play the game at all, regardless of how much he scares people.

    Parros $0.9m
    Boulton $0.6m
    Thornton $0.8m
    McGrattan $0.5m
    Koci $0.6m
    Boll $0.7m
    Barch $0.6m
    May $0.5m
    Stortini $0.7m
    McIntyre $0.5m
    Ivanans $0.6m
    Staubitz $0.6m
    Boogaard $0.9m
    Laraque $1.5m
    Belak $0.6m
    Letourneau-Leblond $0.5m
    Peters $0.5m
    Brashear $1.4m
    Neil $2.0m
    Cote $0.6m
    Bissonnette $0.6m
    Godard $0.8m
    Janssen $0.6m
    Fedoruk $1.1m
    Konopka $0.5m
    Orr $1.0m
    Hordichuk $0.8m
    Semin $6.0m

  173. Semin is the best enforcer in NHL… his “windmill” fighting moves worth more than 6 mill! Totally underpaid! :)

  174. Tank The Season on

    So I just took a look at the entire list of UFA’s. These are the only players of note I see at any position, none of which will really help the Rangers or are realistic to sign at this point:

    C: Lombardi, Comrie, Modano, Weight, D. Moore, Lang, Madden, Jokinen (goodbye), Malhotra, Halpern, Wellwood, S. Koivu, B. Morrison, P. Mueller

    LW: Kariya, Modin, Demitra, Lehtinen, Burish, Fedotenko, Boogaard, Artyukhin

    RW: Kovalchuk, Svatos, Frolov, Slava Kozlov, Tucker, Tkachuk, Nolan, Sykora, Whitney, Torres, Stempniak, Colby Armstrong, Afinogenov, Satan, R. Park

    D: Gonchar, Hamhuis, Volchenkov, Boynton, Martin, Mara, Salei, Lilja, Morris, Michalek, Sydor, Strudwick, Mitchell, K. Foster, Lydman, Tallinder, Kubina, Lukowich, Exelby, Leopold, Van Ryn, Corvo, Jurcina, Morrisonn

    G: Emery, Leighton, Turco, Nabokov, Ellis, Mason, Toskala, Hedberg, Legace, Lalime, Theodore.

    So basically, not many names on this list who can help the Rangers next year, or would likely fit in under our cap.

  175. Tank The Season on

    I would consider signing one of the older guys if they will help with the development of younger players.

    For instance, say Dallas screws Mike Modano over and he wants to play one more year, and Tortorella wants him based on past Team USA competition, and we sign him for 1 year as a stopgap until Stepan is ready. He would help some of our younger players to score.

    Tkachuk (13G-19A-32P in 67GP) and Guerin (21G-24A-45P in 78GP) have nothing left in the tank at this point. Modano may serve a purpose. however.

    I wouldn’t mind signing one old player provided that 1) all the young players will benefit from them being there 2)they know their role and accept a cap friendly deal.

  176. for all you crybabies and negaitive nellies… NHL.com gave NYR an A- as a grade for this yrs draft

  177. Ask a Prospect

    Submit Questions for Up to 6 Future Rangers

    Want to know more about Rangers prospects? Submit questions for six of the prospects attending the annual Rangers Prospect Development Camp. The six include 2010 draft picks Dylan McIlrath and Christian Thomas, 2009 draftees Chris Kreider, Ethan Werek and Ryan Bourque, and 2008 selection Evgeny Grachev, who has already played a full pro season with the Hartford Wolf Pack.

    http://rangers.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=63181

  178. ROC

    thanks a frequent caller. i am the voice of rangers report on that show. lucky for me i am in sales and am in and out of the car all day.

    that being said i dont want any long term contract on thursday.

  179. “for all you crybabies and negaitive nellies… NHL.com gave NYR an A- as a grade for this yrs draft”

    Do you go on NHL.com often? The fact that they gave us an A isn’t a good thing.

    The people that work for NHL.com don’t know a thing aboot Hockey. They’re like the morons on ESPN.

  180. Eric-

    I figured that. However u know Sather is going to do something July 1. Oh I also have been saying we need to get Brad Richards. He’s the perfect guy for this team.

    Also you on twitter?

  181. Based on Gross’ blog, it sounds as if McDonough has no interest in playing for the Rangers at all. Not this year or ever.

  182. What I’d like to have right now….is for all of you….ugly…yellow bellied….Mcilrath lovin morons to keep your mouths shut while I take off my robe! HIT THE MUSIC!

  183. Sorry for the Rick Rude moment. I stick by what I said yesterday- if Savard can be had for a bag of pucks then it’s a no brainer. no he’s not going to take us to a Cup. No one is. but he’s a good player that can help a few of the younger guys flourish a bit and he can help win some games and contribute to what can hopefully be a competetive team. Especially if he and Gabby click.

  184. roc

    not on twitter. no savard he is a hit away from ending his career.

    richards for 1 year is great at 7.8 if u could convince them to take rozi

  185. I’d take Richards too but Rozsival would have to go the other way. If they do that they should just bite the bullet and send Redden down once and for all so they can actually ice a TEAM next year.

  186. Slats should make an offer for Mueller. He looked pretty damn good with the Avs before that cheap shot by Blake, which ended up ending his season.

    With the way he was playing, he could have really helped the Avs. I think he had a point per game, or at least in most of the games.

  187. Tank The Season on

    Dallas won’t trade Richards now. He is in a contract year and is going to produce. If he will be moved at all it will be at the deadline.

  188. Ribero has a better chance of coming here than Richards I think … which isnt so bad either.

    Rozy would still have to go the other way

  189. speZzZza? NYR ZzZz " Almost free agent frenzzzy " … says Greg L. on

    Well , who is /did make the final choice of McIlrath over Cam Fowler? We passed on the ovious choice in Cam Fowler and took a brute in Mcilrath. Was it sather or Gordie Clark ? They have a few guys making desitions and if this one gets messed up…its our scouting’s fault? We draft a goof in Jessewoman and he sucked. We draft Cherry and he dies from an “hidin” heart problem. We draft Pavel Brendel and he was huge and really good..good pick…NOPE , he was a bust . WHY? how? Sather is in charge but who are these guys and why are they picking fathom picks? We need strengh at defense playing in the East . Drafting Mcilrath over Fowler shows that a cheaper shut down D man is more afforedable and wiser with us always playing the like of Crosby and OV.

  190. Megan Fox has officially married the has-been from 90210.

    I don’t know what this means for her, but her number 1 spot is fading!

    Dark times are ahead! And that’s not even counting Slats’ potential moves.

  191. I cant help but think that instead of wishing MDZ and McIlrath become the future Leetch and Beukeboom tandem ??

    maybe ….

    MDZ and Fowler could have been the future Leetch and Zubov tandem ??

  192. Oh, and I’m getting tired of the Rangers cutting their top scorers loose.

    Jagr walks, Zherdev’s cut loose, and now Prospal … I dont get it??

    In every case the player was either 1st or 2nd on the team in points … they’re not re-signed the following year … we wonder why we cant score … It’s getting annoying

  193. speZzZza? NYR ZzZz " Almost free agent frenzzzy " … says Greg L. on

    Losing Keenan and Tikanen to the blues right after we won the cup sucked. Losing Gartner and a young Amonte was brutal. Messier leaving for Vancouver really hurt. Gretzky leaving was very emotional. Messier leaving again(retirement)was stuiped. Pat Lafontaine getting cuncussed again and having to retire really sucked. All the first round draft busts…Lindroes fading out and gone. Jagr gone. Zherdev booted out .Yeah somerset I hear ya!!!

  194. Izzy Mandlebaum on

    Wow. Lot of sadness on the blog, and Free Agency hasn’t even started yet. Sather puts the fear of God into everybody.

  195. wicky (Prust will get QO!!!) on

    well, moving forward torts talks about wanting to get tougher as a whole as a team (then why not re sign shelley already?) especially around the net area. So who might we look at in free agency??? Lombardi plays a solid game, but isn’t a finisher. Armstrong is available (and it would be hilarious to get him because sid loves him as a teammate and wants him back on the pens) and certainly plays a hard game, but how much and he hasn’t put up huge stats. Does slats let shelley walk and go after the name fighter (again) in boogaard? Do we trade for souray, or richards, or ribiero, or savard?? Does he get hank immediate help in volchenkov or another physical d man??? Back up goalie…hedberg??? biron??? Does he trade for versteeg?? Offer sheet for a RFA???

    I just got home from work and I’m rambling on….sorry folks!!!

    Goodnight grandpa!!!

  196. I’d like the press to straight up ask what Clark, Sather, et al thought of Fowler and Gromley. How did they have them ranked and what did they lack for them to be draft worthy at 10? Which players did they have ranked above McIlwrath? I would imagine there were some forwards they would have wanted to take had they fallen down. Who was next on their list if McIlwrath was off the board?

  197. The White Plains Batman on

    I like Folwer a lot but maybe he turns into Tom Poti. He’s not physical.

    The draft is such a crapshoot as Carp said. Maybe McLirath becomes the big bruiser they need and Christian Thomas is half the player his father was and can be a solid 25 goal second liner.

    Time will tell.

    The Islanders won the Internet fanboy draft compared to other teams, but it’s all about what goes down on the ice.

  198. Blueshirt in Paris on

    Just thinking out loud here…

    Whats the deal with Mike Comrie? UFA this year and was paid $1.2mil last year. Can play C and LW and should have the speed to keep up with Gabby. If we have the funds to bring Prospal back he can play C on that line.

    What about sending Giradi to Edmonton for prospect and/or picks?I believe Renney was a big fan. Use that cap space to try to sign Willie Mitchell. $3.5 last year. Not sure he will get a bigger raise then that. Of course if we can dump Redden then we can keep Giradi and get Mitchell as well.

    In all, for the most part I think we should just suck up this year and save cap space for next years FA’s

  199. I don’t see how the Rangers can get any stud UFA anyway. I could part with Shelly and Prust. Nice stories, but replaceable. Boogard will be a better deterent than Shelly. Maybe even cheaper. If I could turn Shelly and Prust into Boogard and Armstrong, I would do it.

  200. The Dublowsky bit is growing tiresome and stale. I seriously don’t understand why Dubi is constantly being bashed on here. I don’t see it on any other blogs/boards. Every single time I come here…there’s something derogatory about Dubi.

    Is Marc Staal going to receive the same treatment if he decides to hold-out?

    The constant digs at Dubi are totally unwarranted. What on earth did the kid do to deserve such venom? He’s in Redden/Rosy territory with you guys, and I just cant figure out why.

  201. Stop with the Boogaard stuff, please. You might as well just sign the Klitschko brothers and let them blunder around the ice for two minutes a game.

  202. It’s not even that i like Boogard, I am thinking he can be had for less $$$$ than Shelley. I LIKE Shelly, but he isn’t great. He is old. Those guys get old quick. Larauque, Brash, etc. become such a liability when they get late career deals. I am siding with Sather on this one. No rush to sign Shelly.

  203. That Colton Orr deal (4 yrs) was outrageous. Shelly knocked him out. What if Orr lost his nerve at that point? He did lose his nerve for a little while actually.

    Point is, the Rangers are a long way away from contending. Why overspend when we can get someone like Boogard? It would be nice to have him here next year v. Philly seeing how the Carcillo/Gaborik incident is still fresh in our minds.

  204. Agree on the getting old point and I’m certainly not in a rush to sign Shelley to anything $1m or above, but I suspect we wouldn’t need to wait until Boogaard ages for him to become a liability, cheap or not (though somehow his last contract was bigger than Shelley’s anyway).

  205. Why do we want to take a chance on someone else when we know Shelley is an asset to the team both on and off the ice? There are plenty of other spots where this team needs improvement, but this isn’t one of those.

  206. You know Brahsear did a good job (cheap job) for Washington by taking out Betts in the playoffs 3 months before we gave him that huge contract and look how that turned out.

    Shelley did a great job for us down the stretch, if he cant be signed for a million dollars or less its time to move on.

    I’d sign him for Voros money NOT Brashear money

    I think its time to give Byers and Weise a shot on the 4th line and they both have a better offensive touch then Shelley and Prust

  207. blaze-

    While I don’t care for it either, the Dubi ‘bashing’ is limited to 2 or 3 posters.
    The average hockey career is something like 6 years. I don’t begrudge them trying to get what they can, while they can.
    As much as we’d like to think otherwise, first and foremost it’s a business. But it doesn’t mean a player doesn’t care aboot winning.

  208. THIS WILL BE OFFCIAL.

    colby armstrong will get a a 3 yr deal for 9 mil to play with the pens. sid and him are best friends.

    i would bet my life thats how sure i am

  209. wicky (Let's Go Rangers!!!) on

    Eric
    I agree with you about armstrong probably going back to the pens. He was sid’s buddy for sure, so that would be the best part of signing him (for a reasonable amount of course) before the pens. It won’t happen, but it would just be funny to me.

    Please tell me we are not starting the byers thing again. Many of you make fun of voros, but byers is a worse punching bag than voros is. No thanks, career minor leaguer! Weise on the other hand, I wouldn’t mind seeing get a shot (he maybe a career minor leaguer as well, but I would like to see him get a chance).

    Prust is a better hockey player than he is given credit for and he was able to earn the trust of our flakey coach, which most can’t seem to do. Letting him go would be a large mistake. He can probably put in 10 or 12 goals a year and is a very solid player.

    The shelley debate is an interesting one. I do agree on the age factor playing a role in some of the better fighters as they get up there in years. That being said shelley is one hell of a teammate and locker room guy (that really does matter to organizations believe it or not, even if it doesn’t to some of the fans), so if we could sign boogaard for 900k, then an extra 300k or 400k for shelley and the intangibles he brings off the ice does not seem like a stretch to me at all.

  210. Doodie Machetto on

    Only 2 days left before our franchise is crippled even further! Who is excited as I am!?

  211. Glad to that Graves is at prospect camp. Could there be a better representative while McDonagh “gets to know” the Rangers?

    Seems like the moving of Sangs was done to help make for a happier landing when McD decides to get off the fence. But is it enough?

    Redden 3 more years
    Roszi 2 more years
    MDZ not going anywhere
    Staal and Girardi potentially being signed to multi year deals

    From his point of view he probably sees only 1 top six D spot being open until 3 years from now.

    That’s before throwing Gilroy into the equation who will be a RFA after this year but still adds to his uncertainty at this point.

    Somethings got to give.

  212. Doodie Machetto on

    Rozsi is gone for sure in 2 years. That opens a spot then. He could also be dealt even sooner. I expect him to be dealt next summer to a cap floor team (5 million hit for 3 million salary), if not this one (5 for 4).

  213. TheREALMikeyNJ on

    Wicky I agree

    Shelley and PRust bring alot of intangibles most if nto all other 4th liners do not.

    And think about it. BEfore Shelly got here, who was our grizzly veteran? Rosi? Hank? You need guys like that on any team.

    Does anybody think Voros would be better than either Shelley or Prust on the 4th line? I dont at all.

    To me, if Prust takes his Qualifier, and we resign shelley for 1-2 years for under a million a year I’d be happy

    Voros gets bumped down to Hartford, Shelley takes his salary, and the 4th line becomes:

    PRust-Boyle-Shelley

    Thats a gritty, forechecking line that will at least put up some points thoughout the year, Fight, and work there butts off every minute of ice time they get

  214. Doodie Machetto on

    Also, noticed the Islanders took Kabanov in the 3rd round. He will be the steal of the draft. The big hit against him is sometimes he’s disinterested. Same for Zherdev, same for Kovalev, same for Yashin, etc. He’s touted with the same level of talent as those guys. Imagine you could have Zherdev or Kovalev in the 3rd round. The Islanders are building an impressive corps of talented young forwards. Too bad they have no real prospects at any other position.

  215. wicky (Let's Go Rangers!!!) on

    Man, I swear the pessimistic nature of the majority of people here is a joke. I mean we all want the rangers to win, we all hate it when they lose, but our team has been in the playoffs 3 of the last 4 years and it seems at least from the draft the organization is trying to actually address needs for once.

    All this negativity is ridiculous. Not many of us like the current administration, but come on. It is fine to debate and talk about things, but to just be so morose all the time????

    I”m going to work! Cheer up folks, we are one day closer to hockey season!!!

  216. LI RangerFan on

    “Only 2 days left before our franchise is crippled even further! Who is excited as I am!?”

    Doodie – I am absolutely petrified…..

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