Bullies and cowards


I didn’t get a preview copy of the HBO special on the Broad Street Bullies — guess I’m not a regular hockey guy anymore — but I have seen some trailers. In fact, the best brawling from the video was shown at every opportunity during the Rangers’ final game in Philly.

I don’t get HBO, either, so I can’t see it when it premieres tonight. But if you do get it, I would suggest you watch it, especially if you are too young to remember those nasty days in the NHL.

I grew up a Rangers fan as a kid and of course I hated the Flyers … though they were just a nondescript expansion team when I was a real fan.  I drifted away from the Rangers, after their glory years through 1971, when they traded Vic Hadfield and Eddie Giacomin. Up to that point, the hated, evil Big Bad Bruins had won two Cups, the Maple Leaves won one, and the Canadiens had won all the rest of the Stanley Cups in my lifetime.

So I had no feeling for the Flyers until the bullying began. In fact, as a young goalie myself, my three favorite NHL goalies were Giacomin, Jimmy Rutherford (I loved the light blue Penguins uniform and he wore my No. 1, so I even bought one of those jerseys), and Bernie Parent. I also took a liking to Rick MacLeash, the long-haired, mustachioed scoring winger who looked tough but was one of the non-pugilist Flyers. Plus, hate to admit it, I loved the bright white uniforms with the bright orange shoulders and the orange and black numbers.

That changed, of course, when they started beating the daylights out of people, when Bobby Clarke — a courageous man in so many ways — played coward by hiding behind his teammates.

Dave Schultz, of course, was the most disgusting tough guy ever. Tough? Well, true tough guys fight other team’s tough guys. Schultz would do that, but he would also pull skilled players out of piles and beat the hell out of them as his teammates all grabbed a partner so nobody could intercede. And they’d empty the bench all the time, just as the old Bruins did. Schultz was a low-life punk, much like his protege, that piece of carcillo, Carcillo, but much worse. Much worse. You will see that in the film, how he beat up unsuspecting non-fighters.

This form of intimidation worked, for sure, for two Stanley Cups. There was no such thing as an instigator penalty in those days, and because men were men, nobody turtled. So if Schultz or one of his henchmen decided they were going to fight you, well, you’d better drop your gloves and defend yourself, which meant taking a bloody beating most of the time. And the tradeoff was five minutes in the box for Schultz, and five for the bloody skilled guy he just took off the ice with him. Some tradeoff.

I’d be interested to know what youse think of the special when you get a chance to see it (I”m sure it will air again and again). I’ll have to wait until it comes out on video … unless somebody from HBO reads this and wants to send me a copy.

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  1. what time is this on Carpy? I dont get HBO downstairs, but still get it on the tv upstairs, but it doesnt show up on the tvguide channel

  2. >>JB congrats!!!

    Thanks, LindZo! Good timing works in my favour once in a blue moon.

  3. Linda, I believe it’s 10 p.m. … but since they weren’t eager to send me promotional material, I wasn’t eager to go out of my way to promote it.

    How’s your daughter?

  4. thanks Carpy. I guess she’s doing ok, havent heard from her since Sunday.

    Just a warning to all ofya,i was just checking on my bank statement. Yesterday i ordered some stuff from vistaprint. today i got check my account and there’s my vistaprint order, but right underneath it is a ‘transaction’ for the same exact time as my vistaprint order. It’s a ‘credit’ for 0.00. under the name “RBS THE NETHERLAN GA”. citibank just blocked my account and are sending me a new card. Looks like this is some type of scam, so everyone just check your debit card/credit card/ bank statements for this shenanigans!

  5. Carp. It’s funny you mention this because I actually went to premiere of the documentary at the wachovia center. It’s funny how you say they all held other guys while schultz beat up a inferior foe. In the documentary, there is a specific point concerning the series where they beat the rangers to become the first expansion team to beat an original 6 team. The flyers beat up some big time ranger(forgot who) and they say “They didn’t defend themselves.” I am sure a young carp was watching that game saying what you just said today in your post.

    Overall, its an ok documentary. It highlights How the flyers really felt like beating everyone up was justified. in the end, i think those two cups were worth it. But that style of play will never work again. I think that’s why that team won’t win a championship until a lot of those guys get away from the organization.

    The only part that was done well was the phase into the soviet union game. It showed how the league hated the flyers but desperately needed them to beat up the soviets to same face for the league.

  6. Good afternoon all! I don’t know if I really want to get my blood pressure going by being reminded of all those carcillos. UGH. I was laid up yesterday….did I miss anything f note?

  7. Lindzo

    $1,600+ of un-authorized charges on my Citi card after an internet purchase in January. Pay attention and check your account every day!!!


  8. LOL Linda!

    I just found a few days ago that the bank card I use for internet purchases had been used, not by me, to make several purchases!

    Charges for sites I do not even use like Netflix, Itunes, etc.

  9. Broad St Bullies , I remember them well. About 10 years ago the Rangers had a fantasy camp called “Ranger Dream Week”. I attended with 5 days of hockey in Montreal. I got to skate with Ranger greats like Rod Gilbert, Don Duguay, Pete Stemkowski, Brad Park, Rod Seiling & guys from that era. On the last day of camp we played the Flyers of the 70’s , Dave Shultz, Bob Daley, Rick Mcleash & other Flyers of that time. I’ll never forget before the game Shultz came into our locker room & stated that if anyone had the idea of making a name for themselves by taking him out, he’d kick the Carcillo out of us. POINT MADE ! – LOL
    It was one of my favorite times as a Ranger fan. My defensive partner was Brad Park. I remember lining up for the opening face off & him asking me if I was ready. I had to look down to see if my skates were on the ice !. Man what a thrill that was. I got to hang out with Gilbert & Stemmer for 5 days drinking beer & talking hockey. Because I was the oldest guy in camp they really took good care of me & showed me around Montreal. And man can these guys drink beer . Also Gilbert can talk your ear off. Fun times with great hockey players. I hated the Flyers then & I hate them now.

  10. Laurel

    I hope you feel better.

    Nothing of note, except that Savard bit a Flyer yesterday. Savard has a documented history of biting other NHLers.

  11. billybleedsblue on

    Thanks for the heads-up Carp, I’ve set the recorder. I plan to watch it late tonight.

    It’s funny how although I am just a little too young to remember those Flyers teams, whenever I hear/read the name Dave Schultz I get all crazy-like. Who doesn’t know the beat-down he handed to Dale Rolfe in ’74? Go search it, you only need to see that one fight to know what Carp described above and also to see what a punk that guy was. Pulling Rolfe’s hair and “hammering” him as all the other players are tied-up by the Flyers. Really brutal stuff.

    Although slightly before my time, and an expansion team from the 60’s, when considering most-hated rivals, I calculate the Flyers into that equation well-before the likes of the Devils, for example.

  12. Mama

    How does the back of a 29 year old lady be “old” and go “poperoo”? ……….. :)

  13. Holy carcillo Stu, that is absolute madness! $1600!! yikes!!

    i do check my account, several times, every day. That was the first thing i noticed this morning when i checked! googled it and called Citibank right away.

    CR, thats just insane!!

    i just emailed vistaprint to make them aware of it also.

  14. billybleedsblue on

    HA. I’m overcome with nausea having just read through some of the Flyers NHL website. Even their (remember, NEITHER they’re NOR there is appropriate here) website is bent to favor the bullies. I know it’s not from the 70’s, but their description of the Dave Brown / Tomas Sandstrom crosschecking incident is preceded with an entire paragraph about how Sandstrom was known for taking liberties with his stick and refusing to fight. YEA! HE DESERVED THAT BROKEN JAW AND CONCUSSION! That’s basically how it’s set-up. Unbelievable. Anyways…

  15. Good morning, Sally!

    Tony, I didn’t know those guys drink.

    Actually, I’ve gotten to know Gilbert quite well over the years. What a great and funny guy.

  16. they should be doing a special about the habs at the very least. they have the second most trophies in sports. also the longest history. i dunno…the flyers are just lame.

  17. I’m too young to remember those Flyer teams, so I’m really intrigued by this documentary. Should be a good history lesson, at least.

  18. CR & Linda, wow, that is awful. Makes me want to check my own credit card accounts.

  19. billybleedsblue, I love the part when Clarke says “crap” then his name immediately come up on the screen. That sums up old #16.

  20. billybleedsblue on

    BANJ, nice one.

    If there’s one positive thing to take away from that Clarke clip is the organ music in the background. Good stuff.

  21. apparently HAL 2000 is working at the Journal News
    or someone there has a twisted sense of humor by putting

    You might also be interested in:
    Carcillo’s OT goal lifts Flyers over Devils (The Journal News)

    in there.

  22. LI RangerFan on

    Mickey – do it (check your accounts).

    A few months back, I was looking through one of my daughter’s accounts, and there were $10 / month charges going back over two years. Long story short – it was a scam that stemmed from something she did on fandango.com She was fortunate; we filed a complaint and they actually refunded all the money.

    Last year, my son’s account was getting fraudulent charges that were being credited back, but he canceled his card and got another because it was happening too frequently.

  23. To be fair billybleedsblue, I was at game 1 of the 1979 Challenge Cup at MSG. I wasn’t too upset when Clarke blind-sided a Soviet face first into the glass.

  24. MickeyM

    I never would have known either unless the bank sent an overdrawn notification.

    To be honest, I could care less, let someone steal my money or my bank card number, just let the Bruins and Celtics lose. PLEASE GOD!

  25. Valli to KHL. wow! if true, they must be really hurting for goalies. didn’t sound like he found his game before his injury.

    as for Jagr, there’s this from TSN

    a little surprised by his decision. thought he was coming to NHL for 1 or 2 more years.



    MY TRUE LOVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I was looking forward to adopting a second favorite team this year, the Oilers :(

    Paww wittle Jaromir!

  27. The (insert anything)bags Flyers and the biggest piece of carcillo Clarke. First Clarke literally chops-off Kharlamov’s ankle and then Kharlamov almost ended up w/o his head on that obvious high hit by Ed Van Impe. Mighty Canadians…if they cant beat you in a game of hockey, they will break your legs or smash your head off AND THEN claim the podium as a superior hockey nation…

  28. drifted away from the Rangers?? Don’t tell me—Islander fan?? OUCH!! Traitor! You suck Carp!!

  29. I started becoming a hockey fan around 1970 + or -, so I remember those Flyer teams. I hated them and the hatred for anything Flyers lasts to this day.

    As for Jagr, I think he realizes that it would be foolish to come back to the NHL and play for the worst team in the league. What would it accomplish, besides maybe put a few more people in the seats? Without a decent supporting cast he wouldn’t score much and he’s not going to raise the Oilers to a contender all by himself.

  30. LI, I really should keep up with them, I’m just to lazy to, to be honest. Luckily, I never do any banking online. I prefer to keep an old fashioned checkbook and to write my own checks, that way I’m in control of everything. Anytime I buy anything online I use one credit card and it’s the same one each time. Less hassle for me that way.

  31. Call me crazy, but I can recall Jagr saying he was only staying the KHL for 2 years, then playing back in his hometown for his Dad. Am I just imagining that?

  32. yes, Jagr did say that.
    maybe his dad isn’t ready for him to take over
    or Jags wants just another year of freedom before
    being burdened with the family business.

  33. There was something about an arena being built too. I think. Maybe that’s why. IDK. Just thinking out loud.

  34. LI RangerFan on

    Mickey – ditto X-Check; that is exactly what Mr. Jagr had said at the time…

  35. Great story Tony.

    Carp, I don’t remember if I read this in a hockey book about fighting or I saw an interview with an old Ranger but when the Rangers would go to Philly to play those goons some of the Rangers would get Flyeritis and not dress because of the beatings they would receive.

  36. Two matches tonight: the first starts at 7:00, the other at 7:30. Versus has “exclusivity” for both. Now, contrast that to our neighbours up north. CBC will carry the first, TSN has the other. Hooray for exclusivity! Hooray for Versus! Hooray for Garry Bettman.

  37. Yeah, figured that much. We are EXCLUSIVELY watching the Pens. Let’s go Habs!!

  38. There is this new TV show with Alyssa Milano, Romantically Challenged (which will be canceled soon enough due to being Rating Challenged).

    Their entire episode last night was about an NHL Channel that one of the main stars was trying to find to watch the NHL playoffs…

  39. ZzZz NYR ZzZz " Next season ,plz!!! " … says Greg L. on

    When this crappy off season gonna end?

  40. Johnny LaRue on

    There’s a way you can get free HBO tonight Carp… Russian cable guys. Don’t forget, they get the run of the house.

  41. ZzZz NYR ZzZz " Next season ,plz!!! " … says Greg L. on

    ” yeah Jaromir , you can’t go to Edmonton.”

    ” Why Not!??”

    Crazy but this blogger has been mentioning your name alot. In a sexual way too.”

    “Is it a woman?”

    “No , its a guy named Cr9 . He may follow you to Edmonton and start blogging over there”

    ” Oh , thats not good ”

    “So JJ you better just sign on with Omsk again and avoid anything to do with North American ..or wait til Crosby hits puberty?”

    “Ok , THanks for the heads up ”

    ” No problem , what are agents for.”

  42. Guerin had been invisible against Montreal. I doubt he’ll be missed as much as these talking heads are saying.

  43. Note to Penguins: DO NOT let the Habs play with the lead. It’s “Game Over” if you do.

  44. There’s a way you can get free HBO tonight Carp… Russian cable guys. Don’t forget, they get the run of the house.


    i don’t think it’s the way it used to be… I knew two guys who had the hook up…neither one of them is in business anymore.

  45. Power play, Montreal. Bad news for Pittsburgh. They better know where Cammalleri is at all times.

  46. Paging Sidney Crosby! Paging Evgeny Malkin! Please report for your shifts!

  47. Markov is out indefinitely with a torn ACL…but they won’t declare him out for the playoffs…that’s guts right there.

  48. So, every hockey broadcast features virtual adverts on the glass now? Thanks, MSG!

  49. Kicked goals should count! That would cut down on these long silly replays.

  50. What are these guys talking about? A penalty in the regular season should also be a penalty in the playoffs.

  51. The Montreal players look like they’re enjoying their hard work. Crosby’s boys look more frustrated than anything less. One Habs goal should put this one away.

  52. Olga Folkyerself on

    Big scrum. No punches. Malkin and Gionta? Crosby and Gomez? They aren’t taking any chances fighting full sized players, are they?

  53. Emile Francis till this day HATES the Flyers. he still refers to them as a buncha goons. He hated Schultz.

    I had one encounter with Dave Schultz when I was 17. I told him I was a Ranger fan and he then said “I don’t talk to Ranger fans”

    Artem Anisimov : This Russian Jumbo Jet Is ON SCHEDULE


  54. Olga Folkyerself on

    Those Broadstreet Bullies of the 70’s are why I hate the Flyers to this day. It was the worst era in the history of Hockey. And the referees stood around keeping their thumbs all warm and cozy.

  55. Anybody see the new Nightmare On Elm Street? If not, then skip it. What a bore-fest.

    The Losers was pretty good.


    I’ll check out that Flowers special later tonight. As for Carcillo, I would love it if he was a Ranger. I don’t care that he beat up Gabby. The guy asked for it.

  56. Olga Folkyerself on

    A few years ago Dave Schultz was coaching a minor league team in Elmira. We used to bad-mouth him unmercifully at every game for what he did with the Flyers. And he was OUR TEAM’S coach…

    He lasted 21 games… Went 5-16 and missed the playoffs.

  57. In all honesty, the teams look pretty even. The Pens miss Staal. Between Crosby, Malkin and Staal the opposition would be under constant pressure. And they would wear you down that way. Plus Staal would kill penalties and score a few shorties.

  58. I was just going to say that MAF has been pretty average. Until he made that save on Shrimp.
    I’m going to Jbite my tongue:)

  59. Kostytsin’s name was mentioned today as often as Markov’s. Who is injured.

  60. 2-0 on an empty net. Habs fans will just have to save their “Olé Olé” for another night.

  61. >>Kostytsin’s name was mentioned today as often as Markov’s. Who is injured.

    Funny! He misses his brother. I think he should pull a Sedin and declare he won’t play without his little bro.

  62. Olga Folkyerself on

    Dupuis salts it away for Pit. What did we get for him?

    Alex Bourret. Good job, Glen.

  63. >>Tied up. Does he have to yell like that?

    You must be referring to the Sharks announcer. I’m lucky I don’t have that annoying fellow; I’m watching the Wings broadcast.

  64. Olga Folkyerself on

    Maybe not a superstar but his 18 goals would be 5th on the Rangers. How many goals has Bourret scored for NY?

    That’s my point… Sather stinks.

  65. dude put your tooth in sheesh!!! you’re not on the ice, you should have a tooth. If not, a tic tac or two, or a chiclet would do the job

  66. Ernie Harwell passed away today.

    Great man, great role model for all, legendary.

    RIP Ernie. You will be missed.

  67. Please let the Wingies win. I cant stand the thought of them being down 3-0 in a series.

  68. Salty Dupuis and his 18 goals would be useless to NYR. They don’t need another 3rd liner.

    *That’s* the point, and has always been the point of this team. Too many 3rd liners.

    And he wouldn’t have anything close to 18 goals on NYR.

  69. Olga Folkyerself on

    Detroit has to win a game or two. I don’t want SJ all rested up to meet Chicago.

  70. Olga Folkyerself on

    I don’t care that they traded Dupuis. I’m saying that they got NOTHING back for him. Sather and his scouts don’t know hockey talent, and their trade results prove it.

  71. Bourret is all they could have gotten for a guy like Salty Dupuis. No GM is willing to part with a talented prospect for a 3rd liner who walks out on practices just because he gets yelled at by his coach.

    The only player you can get is a hit or a miss. Who knows if it was even Slats’ call. I got the impression that Maloney was the guy that wanted him, which is why he was so quick to get him back when he went to Phoenix.

  72. >>Detroit has to win a game or two. I don’t want SJ all rested up to meet Chicago.

    Tweet from Vancouver Canucks: “This 3-0 San Jose lead is bad news for us; we don’t want those guys too rested up when we meet them.”

  73. lmao i’m laureling! there is a guy running for Treasure down here, his name is YOUNG BOOZER!!!! ( he looks like he’s in his 50s) lmfao

  74. Tough night for Detroit, especially with Harwell passing.

    As Phil Mushnick points out, great announcers like Harwell and Vin Scully couldn’t even get jobs today because they have no schtick. Sad, isn’t it?

    Good night, Mary-Ellen.

    Good night, Sally!

  75. wicky (Positionally sound=soft in NHL speak!!) on

    truth about jagr and hs dad is that his dad wanted a really great d man on his team, and chara was going to do it but found out jagr was going to be there and didn’t want to deal with his sorry lazy only plays when he feels like it moody piss poor attitude and said he wouldnt play there if jagr did. so his dad said stay away to jaromir (wish the rangers would have done that with jagr when we could have had chara).

  76. Good night All.

    RIP Ernie Harwell

    RIP 2009-2010 Red Wings season

    RIP my dreams of having my true love, Jaromir, return to the Rangers in 2010-2011

  77. RangerRick on

    Precisely the reason I began hating the Philadelphia Flyers! Growing up in Delaware, in the 1970’s, I was surrounded by “Flyer Mania.” Back in those days, the only hockey I could see was over-the-air Flyer broadcasts. Imagine the pain! Good old FAT Gene Hart, with his high-pitched yelps, was constantly praising every bloody nose the Flyers inflicted. I distinctly remember a playoff series against Toronto in 1977 or 1978 in which they should have lost, but mugged the best players on the Leafs. In one bench-clearing brawl, two filly thugs held a Maple Leaf player, while a third punched him repeatedly. Maybe funny in the movies, but not in a real game. Over the years I have had one constant mantra…”my two favorite teams are the Rangers, and whomever plays the Flyers.” In fact, my two favorite seasons were 1994 (duh), and the recent season when filly ended up dead last in the league! Oh what joy! F*** the Flyers AND their a**hole fans!!!

  78. Hey

    somebody mentioned Paul Holmgren in a prior posting, and I’m gonna tell you this,,,he is probably the most honorable, and straight forward person at the helm of a team in this league. There is no B/S about the guy at all. He’s hard but fair. I recall his brief moments at the helm of the old Whalers and for one great ( although very short) period they were a very good hockey team…but….Paul’s heart was in Philly, and all Whaler fans were very sorry to see his departure, especially when the next succession of leaders ( sic) stank up the joint.

    Almost all the players who played under him and performed to their utmost will tell you that he was a player’s coach …AND GM.

  79. On bullies etc…..if you didn’t see the game in which Clark Gillies beat Schultz to a pile of you know what, after this bum tried to take on Mike Bossy ( who by the way declared his non combative credentials boldly and with no hesitation, and simply stated that he was not gonna do any fighting…period. His reasoning…very simple. He couldn’t fight his way out of the proverbial paper bag, so why take a chance on injuring himself for a show? But Gillies made Schultz pay full price, and the dog was never the same since.

  80. Oh..one afterthought…is Gillies in the hall of fame?..if not he should be…just for being the guts of that entire
    team. And Scultz?

  81. Watched the Bullies on HBO last night. One of the big themes was the Schultz/Rolfe beating. The Rangers standing around watching Rolfe get his ass handed to him gave the Flyers the motivation to win the series and the cup. Fast forward to this year (Carcillo/Gaborik) and nothing has changed in Rangerland.


  82. One of the quotes from the Broad Street Bullies thing from last night was, “I liked to take out my frustrations on the ice, and there is no better way to take out your frustration that by driving someones head in to the boards.”

    Yup, just goes to show you what a great bunch of guys they were.

    I have NO PROBLEM with tough guys, but when you target non fighters, I lose all respect.

    I don’t think we are going to be as pansified next year as a team.

  83. Is there a Bonehead gathering being planned for May 21st? I thought I remembered hearing that a few months back.

  84. Not going to be seeing that HBO special on this side of the pond any time soon. Just like all the other hockey movies (Slap Shot, Youngblood, Mystery Alaska, Miracle etc..).
    There was me foolishly thinking when Patrick Swayze died we might at least see Youngblood on one of the many movie channel tributes, but no, instead we got Ghost, Dirty Dancing, Roadhouse, Point Break etc…

    I can’t get into this year’s playoffs, coverage is sporadic over here and no way am i sacrificing a couple of hours sleep to watch Carcillo or Cindy or Blowmez. I might watch a bit of the finals.

    What else was i going to say, oh yeah……FIRE SATHER!

  85. I remember those days! The sad thing about it, is before the Flyers, you actually had to “be a hockey player” to play. Once they came into the league, you had your resident goon. Every team started having one. And it continues to this day. The Orrs, Carcillos, Voros. Guys with no hockey talent, but can fight. Fighters prior to the Flyers, were guys like Ferguson, Lindsay, guys who could actually play hockey. And the funny thing was, I actually rooted for the F-ers that first Cup final when they played the Bruins, because I hated them worse.

    BTW, Rick MacLeish was a neighbor of my Uncle’s in Cherry Hill, and I met him a couple of times while he walked his dog in the neighborhood. Nice guy, and as you said, one of the few non-fighters on the team. He was like the Nick Braden of the Flyers :)

  86. fran, yes, Gillies is in the Hall.

    Nasty, yes, big Boneheads bash at Warren on May 21.

    BANJ, Van Impe looked like he was 50 when he was playing, so I’m not surprised.

  87. Hmmm, I am going to try and make that work, but I will be at MSG for the second night of Pearl Jam. Maybe I will drive in and come after the show.

  88. CTBlueshirt on

    But you don’t spend time with the Boneheads Nasty. You don’t even know the Boneheads names.

  89. Nice. Well, maybe I can make my brother drive in. It is going to be a late night as it is. Don’t feel like missing the train. What time are last trains in NYC on a Friday night? Usually 1 something right?

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