About that trade … (updated, with new info, notes)

278

There’s a reason it hasn’t been announced, and probably won’t be announced tonight;  a reason (probably) that Higgins was on the ice at the end of the game, and a reason the MSG voices aren’t saying anything about the TSN reports of Kotalik and Higgins for Jokinen and Prust.

And that reason, I’ve been told, is that the complications that arose last night are still not yet resolved.

The complications have to do with Kotalik’s NMC. (UPDATE: It’s a limited no-trade, not a full no-move; there are three teams to which Kotalik cannot be traded without his permission, one of those is Calgary).

Kotalik refuses to go to Calgary — though ultimately he will, for $6+ million reasons.

As far as I know, Jokinen does not have an NMC.

To review, Higgins was going to be an RFA this summer, and probably not re-signed. The Rangers shed the last two years, at $3M per, of Kotalik’s contract.

Jokinen earns $5.5M this year and is a UFA this summer … and perhaps a trade chip/rental at the deadline. Prust is yet another third/fourth-liner, but much, much tougher than anybody the Rangers have right now (98 PIMs).

More as it becomes available.

————————————-

LATE NIGHT UPDATE, 12:30 A.M.: Sportsnet.ca is confirming what I reported earlier … that the holdup is Kotalik’s limited NTC, which lists three teams — one being Calgary — to which he cannot be traded without his permission.

————————————–

From the Rangers:

NEW YORK RANGERS POST-GAME NOTES
January 31, 2010 – New York Rangers 3, Colorado Avalanche 1 (Game #56, Road #27)
• The Blueshirts defeated the Colorado Avalanche, 3-1, tonight at the Pepsi Center, marking the first Rangers win at Colorado since a 6-3 victory on Dec. 31, 1998.
• Marian Gaborik tallied all three Rangers goals to record his first hat trick as a Blueshirt, and the 10th hat trick of his career; it is the first hat trick by a Ranger since Chris Drury notched three goals vs. Tampa Bay on Nov. 6, 2008.
• With his first goal at 13:53 of the first period, Gaborik registered his 500th career NHL point; he finished the contest with six shots and a plus-three rating, and has recorded 11 points (five goals and six assists) in the last eight games.
• The Rangers improved their record to 25-24-7 (57 pts.) overall, including a 13-11-3 (29 pts.) mark on the road.
• New York held Colorado scoreless in six power play opportunities (9:56), and are now 13-for-13 in shorthanded situations in their last two games.
• Goaltender Chad Johnson registered his first career NHL win, stopping 34 of 35 shots, while starting in back-to-back games for the first time in his career.
• Defenseman Marc Staal tallied a career-high two assists, and finished with a plus-two rating in a game-high 27:12 of icetime; Staal has recorded six points (one goal and five assists) in the last eight games.
• Rangers Alternate Captain Vinny Prospal tallied his 10th multi-point effort of the season with two assists, and registered five shots and a plus-two rating; Prospal has recorded seven points (one goal and six assists) and a plus-six rating in the last eight games.
• Sean Avery recorded the primary assist on Gaborik’s first period goal, and has now registered a point in each of the last two games (one goal and one assist); Avery also finished with a plus-one rating, and has now posted a plus or even rating in 27 of the last 38 games.
• Rookie forward Artem Anisimov collected one assist, and has now registered three points (two goals and one assist) in the last four games.
• The Rangers will conclude their three-game Western Conference road trip on Tuesday, Feb. 2, when they will face-off against the Los Angeles Kings at Staples Center (10:30 p.m.), in their fourth game in three days; the game will be televised live on MSG Network.

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278 Comments

  1. by the way, even if jokinen isnt havin a great year, we still would be trading 2 forwards with a combined 14 g and 22 a (36 pts) for a forward with 11 g and 24 a (35 pts). i wont include prust’s stats since they are irrelevant as he will be a 4th liner tops on our team.
    So i still cant see how u could go wrong here, get it done

  2. REPOST FROM UNCLE GLENNIE … DIDN’T WANT TO MAKE HIM DO IT, SO I DID IT FOR HIM:

    Sather’s Wrapup
    January 31st, 2010 at 10:59 pm e
    Hello From the Colorado Avalanche, Ranger Fans! For the life of me, I can’t seem to remember what state Colorado is in…
    A bit of trade news in Rangerland today. For some reason Ales Kotalik has left the team and asked to be traded. This came as quite a shock to the Rangers Management. And the timing was also a surprise. It was right after Torts told Ales that he would never play for him again. I actually had Kotalik traded to Calgary. I sent Sutter a case of scotch to seal the deal. I guess he didn’t drink all of it- he was still conscious and then backed out of the deal. The last thing he said before passing out was “and Higgins”. Bingo!
    (singing) “Y-M-C-A, it’s fun to stay at the Y-M-C-A” That’s Dolan’s new ringtone… Hey Big Guy! Did you see the game tonight? Have you EVER watched one? No? Hmmm, That’s good to know… Well, we won! Did you let D’Antoni out of the closet yet? There’s a Knicks game coming up soon. Then I bet he goes right back in… (click)
    Brash! Where’s my million dollar Manbearpig? Half man, half bear, and half pig… Brash Baby, here’s the keys, go down to the garage and start up my limo. When Kotalik was leaving the Pepsi Center he was carrying a suspicious looking package with wires sticking out of it. Take Drury with you. That’ll take care of that No Movement Contract, eh Mess?
    I don’t like those Copy-Cat Colorado uniforms. They look just like the Rangers. Dress like clowns, play like clowns, I always say…
    I’ll have to talk with Torts. Gaborik is hogging all the goals again. Yeah, Gabby’s getting Grabby. If I wanted that, I would have kept Gretzky. I was a Lion for a day, on that day, too.
    Well, it’s on to LALA Land. Life’s a beach…
    Uncle Glennie

  3. Jeff S from DE on

    I’m liking this deal.

    There is absolutely no reason to go gaga over Jokinen. Yes, he’s probably the #1 center we need to play with Gabs, however, do not forget that Jokinen was playing with Iginla and look at his stats this year (35 pts thus far).

    That said, Jokinen for Kotalik and Higgins, not to mention getting a depth player like Prust is a great move and one I look forward to seeing on the ice. The salaries pretty much wash ($5.25 to Calgary vs $5.75 to Rangers) and Jokinen is only under contract until next year, so if things don’t work out, then peace out, brosef.

  4. anybody that has a problem with this trade doesnt have a clue about the cap. the fact that they would take jokinen on until rest of the year and prust and gain 500,000 on the books for a kotalik who still has 2 years left at 3 mill and higgins ufa this would be a great trade. the only player would be kotalik being commited to calgary.

    get this done.

  5. Seriously, Kotalik, as a fellow countryman – TAKE THE PLANE TICKET! You’re not going to play in NYR colours ever again, and moving on will only make Sather look stupid. Go score 20 with Calgary and save us the cap space. Prosim!

  6. DarrenDreger Trade call is unlikely tonight. Sounds like the Flames are holding this deal up. Working on why.

  7. In one trade Dolan admits three mistaks by getting Higgins and Kotalik in the first place, then with Prust we get fighter cheap instead of Brashit money…Round-tine.

  8. New stuff up top. It is Kotalik’s limited no-trade clause that is the complication in the deal. That’s apparently why they sent him home. Or this trade would have happened last night.

  9. That’s a great deal because at his best Ollie J. is a legit 1st liner and it frees up a lot of cap room in the offseason.

  10. Unfathomable that Ales Kotalik was given any sort of NMC. Completely unfathomable, even for Sather

  11. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Tough call Doodie. Gomez can still play the game, he has a few 50-65 point seasons left in him. In that move, they were basically unloading a guy who could play with an over-sized contract for a UFA who could not play. In this move, the Rangers got rid of 2 guys who cannot play, one with a 3 year deal for a guy who can play. I think this move is better.

  12. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Ales will go, I just don’t understand why these “NTC’s” exist if there’s usually a way around them. AND I don’t understand why Kotalik has one.

  13. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Sally,
    It’s not only pretty good, but if Marian Gaborik continues his current pace (4 goals in his last 4 periods), he’ll finish the season with 111 goals! And the Rangers will never score fewer than 3 a game, let alone get shut out again! Everything is GREAT in Rangerland.

  14. im glad that its kotalik holding it up and not the flames though, like carp says, there should end up being 6 million reasons why he allows the deal, go back to western canada and give edmonton some payback let that be you M.O. kotalik, for the love of god just accept the trade you idiot

  15. Is Ales married? Is this going to be another wife rejected deal to Canada?

    Man, Nylander was better than so many players we’ve seen since.

  16. Carp, I hope you’re right about this one! I hope it’s Koats holding up the deal, which in that case, go to Europe, please do! Maybe we’re a little weaker without acquiring Jokinen, but whatever. Jokinen would help us get that first round L in the playoffs.

    According to this site, Koats doesn’t have a NTC/NMC, but I remember hearing he had a “limited” one

    http://www.outsidethegarden.com/salaries.asp

  17. in related news

    anyone notice the insane travel schedule for the Kings
    and the Rangers?

    Kings played in jersey today and then play us on Tuesday…on the west coast. after we’re done with that game, it’s our turn to travel cross country and play the Caps on Thursday….at MSG.
    btw
    with the Kings winning all 3 games out east, maybe it’s better that we weren’t home to answer the door when the players came calling on us.

  18. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Hell, Matt Cullen for 2.5 or 3 million (whatever I admit i ripped him for making) would be better than Drury or former-Ranger great Scott Gomez.

  19. haha wow

    jokinen… how old? whats his contract?

    I can’t complain here, especially happy to see Piggins booted out of his hometown. LET THAT BE A LESSON to Rangers players and Brass alike.

  20. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Last year of his contract and earning 5.5 … I want to say he’s 32 but that would be a guess.

  21. jokinen info from the star…

    ASSETS: Is a big presence up the middle and a good face-off man. Has above-average hands and the instincts of a natural goal-scorer. When motivated, he plays a complete game.
    FLAWS: Is a better scorer than playmaker, so he tends to get off his game when paired with other goal-scorers. His leadership skills, along with the rest of his game, lacks consistency.
    CAREER POTENTIAL: Moody scoring center.

    wasnt he accused of rape in sweden a few years ago?

  22. Have to love the trade as it’s written up (aka potentially going down).

    The little extra being eaten just this season is nothing compared to the $6M being saved from Kotalik’s contract. I’ll admit now I’m a fan of Higgins (even though McDonagh was the stolen piece in that deal) but I’m glad it’s him and not Gilroy (again, potentially).

    Unfortunately for us Rangers fans, this just gives Slats $3M more to spend this off-season on another mediocre 3rd liner.

    And not to call you out Carp, because they’ve handled Kots poorly, but you loved this signing thinking it’d be one of those below the radar payoffs (though you did admit it $3M per was a bit much).

  23. Hell, Matt Cullen for 2.5 or 3 million (whatever I admit i ripped him for making) would be better than Drury or former-Ranger great Scott Gomez.

    …..

    Oh god yes. I ripped him too, I would kill to swap him and hos contract back in, although he was a selfish player.

  24. As people have already stated, you can’t not like this trade for the cap implications alone.

    The only fly in the ointment is that the trade will potentially give Sather cap room in the future to make another stupid move, like re-signing Jokinen after this season or overpaying someone else. But who knows, maybe if they shed another modest contract they could make a move for Marleau in the off-season?

    Jokinen annual cap hit = 5.25
    Lisin = 0.790
    Christensen = 0.750
    Prospal = 1.15

    Of course they’ll have to give Staal, at least Cally and Dubi type money and we’ll see if they finally bring up Sanguinetti if they let Girardi walk.

  25. i recall when we signed Kotalik that sabres fans were like “good luck with that….”

    of course, it’s another Rangers approach of trying to put a square peg in a round hole. he was supposed to be the power play guy and then wasn’t he taken off for quite awhile. also, he was never reunited with Drury, when that pairing worked in buffalo.

    not saying i’m gonna miss him all that much but it’s possible he could have been handled better than he was.

  26. Yes, who dat, and I have admitted many times since that I was wrong.

    Whoops. Sorry I missed that. Lots of posts lately lol. All in good fun anyways. But as I said and as you’ve pointed out he has been handled extremely poorly. Particularly with that putrid PP over the last 15 or so games. Drury at the point?? Less of a defensive liability, obviously, but zero intimidation for forward PK’ers.

    And side note: Is it just me or has it seemed like Lisin has been busting it the past 5 games? Not sure it’s a good thing, but just seems that when he’s trying it’s very noticeable, especially when he bursts by guys along the boards (something he should be able to do more of).

  27. jpg: not saying i’m gonna miss him all that much but it’s possible he could have been handled better than he was.

    You’re absolutely right. I guess Torts didn’t like Ales and I don’t blame him since Kotalik had some brutal blue-line turnovers while on PP.

  28. “wasnt he accused of rape in sweden a few years ago?”

    Please, the Swedes consider starring as a form of rape.

    The Swede chicks are feisty. If you look at them, they scream rape, if you cheat on them, they try to kill you with a golf club, and make you crash your SUV into a tree, and pretend they were trying to save you.

    Is it…wrong for me to turned on by this ?

  29. paulieplatypus on

    Hey Sally, was wondering if you sometimes like to put chocolate chip cookies in the toaster oven for a few minutes… Just until the chips start to melt a little on the cookie?

  30. wow. from brooks twitter. One variation fell through..We’re told NYR originally were set to send D with Kotalik, but Flames apparently made late demand for Higgins.

    what was calgary smoking?

  31. Linda ... SCIENCE!!!!!!!! on

    sally, how about peanut butter chips with chocolate chips in an oatmeal cookie?

  32. Toe-Wicky-Frenchchops (gabby, just get 25 more!!) on

    ok, so what the hell is actually going on and is olli in the final year of his contract or does he have one year left??

  33. Who Dat,

    Yeah rumor was he and Drury played great together in Buffalo, problem with that is Drury hasn’t played great this year at all, so naturally Kotalik was pretty awful as well… He looked solid on the PP in the first 9 games, when we had a PP. Since then he’s done nothing at all… His 5 on 5 play is terrible, as Buffalo fans pointed out.

  34. paulieplatypus on

    I would think a tough feisty Swedish babe would be more suited for a third or fourth line player opposed to a top two liner.

  35. ranger909 February 1st, 2010 at 12:08 am

    wow. from brooks twitter. One variation fell through..We’re told NYR originally were set to send D with Kotalik, but Flames apparently made late demand for Higgins.

    what was calgary smoking?

    Who knows? They saw something in Dawes and Sjostrom and gave them contracts, and Dawes was doing decent in Calgary before he went down with injury, and Sjostrom was himself.

  36. true, Kotalik had turnovers at the blueline. same as DZ, Redden and Rozy. they were, obviously, not good but i don’t think Kotalik had much PP time before those happened.
    still,
    he wasn’t reunited with Drury…for some reason…even if it was for a few games to see if they click again.

  37. Toe-Wicky-Frenchchops (gabby, just get 22 more!!) on

    soooo my question is if the rangers were going to send gilroy in the deal wouldn’t you think that there is a d man somewhere on the rangers radar as well?

  38. Good point about their glory days in Buffalo, evitageN, in Buffalo.

    And if they rekindled some of that offense I’m sure we’d be saying much different things and be having a very different season. About as unfortunate as Slats being our GM I guess.

    One question I would love the answer to and only Sather knows: When bidding for Redden and Kotalik and retaining the likes of Roszival, who the heck are you bidding against?!?!?

  39. Good point about their glory days in Buffalo, evitageN, in Buffalo.
    ____________________

    A little redundant on my part, haha

  40. I think that Kotalik is deciding whether or not he will go to Calgary. I also think that this is a move before a bigger move for the Rangers. I think they are getting Jokinen, so that they have a center to play with Gabby, and then they are going to trade Dubi, and I don’t know who else to Atlanta for Kovy.

    Ha, who knows when Sather is running the show. I am just throwing that out there as a possible scenario. I also think possibly Rozi goes to Toronto for a prospect and a high pick. Toronto has said it is willing to take on salary for picks.

    And the beat goes on dadadumbdedumb!

  41. According to that sportsnet article;

    Kotalik’s limited no-trade clause lists three teams he can not be traded to without his permission and Calgary is one of them.

    Only 3 teams and Calgary has to be one of them

  42. hey Who Dat,
    i brought that up yesterday but as far as i can tell
    the subject ignored.

    <>

    i thought i saw something where the blue jackets had interest in Redden. don’t know how true of if they were offering a crazy contact so glennie went crazier

  43. I meant that Rozi+a high pick to Toronto for a 3rd or 4th round pick coming back, or maybe a cheap 4th line player or something.

  44. sportsnet.ca is confirming what I reported earlier … that the holdup is Kotalik’s limited NTC, which lists three teams — one being Calgary — to which he cannot be traded without his permission.

  45. Mudda Fuska

    Of course. Of AAAAAAALLLL the teams, it had to be the Flames.

    How dumb is Slats ? The teams on the list, and he’s trying to get a trade with them, hahaha. Wow.

    I thought i can go to sleep all happy, but no, i cant. My hopes were high, but now they’re low. Just perfect.

    Kotalgeek…i hate you ! You want out so bad, then go anywhere !

  46. I just hope this is all sorted out soon. I’d like to be able to have whoever is coming this way, possibly here by tomorrow, so maybe they can play on Tuesday night in LA. Would suck for Higgy to know he is pretty much dealt, and then no be, and have to go out and play. I know it is part of being a pro, but that just kind of sucks.

  47. Domi, that report actually said the deal WON’T be completed until Monday morning at the earliest.

    I’m hitting the pillow.

    Good night, Sally!

  48. Linda ... SCIENCE!!!!!!!! on

    the wacky world of sather!

    what evil lurks in the hearts of men? Only the sather knows!

  49. Toe-Wicky-Frenchchops (gabby, just get 22 more!!) on

    evin
    thanks for the link!

    well, either way, got to figure higgy and kots end up somewhere else now that it is all over the web that they were/are traded. also guessing that brash is in the line up for higgy against LA if he isn’t traded!

    Still think a d man deal is out there somewhere!

  50. tr-808 February 1st, 2010 at 12:36 am

    hasty

    heres that article i told you about

    http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/31155-Sources-Lightning-sale-could-be-complete-by-end-of-weekend.html

    ————-

    Best part about this, if that went through, we’d still have Gomer, which leads me to believe either

    a) Sather would have then waived Redden at the beginning of the year to have money to sign Gaborik. Or we’d be competing for a lottery pick for real, with no scoring.

  51. Haha funny little blurb from mynhltraderumors:

    2nd-Scott Gomez:(age 29) $7.357 million against the cap. After recording 13 goals and 60 points for New Jersey in 2006-07, once again Glen Sather Over-paid to land Gomez in a signing that bordered on insane. With all due respect to Gomez, we’d all take the money, Sather gave him 51.5 million over a seven year period starting the same day as the above mentioned Chris Drury. What was the plan here? Now they had 2 smallish centers making first line money, totaling 14.407 million in the salary cap era. As amazing as this blunder on Sather’s part is, somehow Bob Gainey in Montreal was crazy enough to trade for this contract, showing that really nothing is impossible.

    The list is top 10 worst contracts.

    #’s 2, 3, and 4 were done by Sather (Gomez, Drury, and Redden, respectively)

  52. WHo Dat, link? How are we not #1 with Holik?

    That being said, yeah why does Sather do everything in pairs? Noah’s Ark baby! (Gomer, Dru) – (Redden, Rozy)

    Shame he didn’t bring in an another elite player when he brought in Gaborik.

  53. Ah come on Kotalik, accept the damn deal. The best part of it is Olli is a FA after the year! Oooh boy…doesn’t help us this year IMO, but it’s cool to have extra cap space come July 1!

  54. I like this move only because Jokinen and Prust are FAs (Prust is an RFA). Free up some cap space with that. It’s not going to help this year though, which is fine.

  55. HAHA. I told you guys earlier today we would be making a trade with either Calgary or Toronto.

    The Calgary/Toronto trade left their teams lopsided (too many D for Toronto and too many Centers for Calgary) …

    Im really stoked about Prust coming here especially after the beating Voros took Tonite – this gives us a legit enforcer for 500k NOT 1.4 million Brashear to be a healthy scratch every game.

    There was a time when Jokinen was a 30 goal scorer/80 point player … maybe he finds that touch again with Gabby???

  56. I’ve seen Jokinen play in person (for Florida) … he was by far the best player on that team … very strong on the puck.

    He also played very well for Calgary when he first got traded there … then I don’t know WTF happened. Perhaps he misses the beautiful latina honeys that line up Ocean Drive?

    WTF knows. All I care about is that that POS light it up for the Rangers.

  57. Tank the Season on

    Kotalik will waive his NTC to go to Calgary because we all know what’s in the pipeline for him if he doesn’t…

  58. Jokinen still decent, but he’s not going to help the scoring. He’s going to fall into the same trap that everyone else except Gabby and Christensen did. They listen to Torts and Drury and just shoot from anywhere instead of setting up the play and waiting for a good shot. Mind you Olli is more of a playmaker, but you know that Torts influence would make him a guy who just shoots and is boring.

  59. kotalik will go in the morning else his next 2 1/3 yrs will be the worst of his career.

    he is not insane…

  60. Toe-Wicky-Frenchchops (gabby, just get 22 more!!) on

    there was a link on twitter that said we had souray in our sights, but it is a password site, so I don’t have any other info!

  61. so in 1 trade Sather addresses 3 Huge Needs on the Rangers roster …

    Need 1 – 1st line Center … Check !!

    Need 2 – A legit Enforcer/Stand up for teammates type guy … Check !!

    Need 3 – Clear some of our 3rd/4th line “Dead Weight” … Check !!!

    Well Done Slats !!!

  62. Even though Jokinen is a 1st line Center, I’d like to keep Christensen there for a while and put Olli with Drury and maybe Dubinsky/Calli

    Gaborik – Christensen – Prospal
    Drury – Olli – Callahan
    Dubi – AA – Lisin
    Avery – Boyle – Prust/Voros/Brash

  63. Forget Souray – he’s injured so the chances of anyone trading for him are zero.

    As for Kotalik, Slats must be licking his chops at the prospect of another dumb GM taking one of his terrible contracts off his hands. Kudos to Slats if he pulls it off, thats a possible fan favourite in Prust and 4 months of Jokinen to get rid of a failed PP point man and a failed top 6 forward.

    Question is can he find a taker for Brashear, Roszival or Redden now?

  64. Adam – i read that and i agree. I can’t see how taking Jokinen and Prust is a bad thing in any way. Jokinen can’t be as bad as Kotalik has been and if he doesn;t work out then who cares he’s a UFA at the end of the season freeing up the salary cap space previously taken up for 2 more years.

    My work network doesn’t allow access to hockeyfights.com so can’t wait to get home and check out Prust’s fight card!

  65. Well now we know why Drury flashed some personality in his game interview last night. He’s an owner of the pizza place he was talking about. Anything for money, right Chris?

  66. Sather is a jackass. He gives a player a limited NTC, and then tries to trade him to one of the teams on the NTC list anyway.

    Even if this deal goes through and Kotalik ends up in Calgary, what kind of precedent does this set for the future? Don’t you think players would be leery of playing for the Rangers if they know Sather gives out NTCs, and then ignores the NTC & trades you to one of those teams anyway? That’s a dangerous way to do business.

  67. Messiah – the limited NTC just means that Kotalik will need to give his approval to be traded there. I think the NHLPA lawyers would have a field day if Slats traded a player in direct contradiction to a clause in his contract.

    if this trade goes through today, i’m laying off the Sather bashing for a while (until Redden or Roszi has another stinker of a game. Tomorrow?)

  68. It’s amazing what a difference one player makes…if its Kotalik/Gilroy for Olli/Prust instead of Kotalik/Higgins, how pissed would everyone be?

    I would be. Not a big fan of Olli, but I’m happy because hes a FA at the end of the year and Kotalik’s salary is off the books

  69. UK, I understand that. But if a player lists a team as part of his NTC – even with his approval – and the GM tries to trade you to that team anyway, what does that say about the GM? Apparently Sather doesn’t have Kotalik’s approval in this case, or the trade would have been finalized already.

    I just think this is a dangerous precedent.

  70. The problem is how the hell does a guy like Kotalik even get a no trade clause, even if it is limited?

  71. Messiah, you’re still not understanding how the clause works. There’s nothing precedent-setting about this, it’s following the letter of the contract.

  72. The revolving door of useless players continues. The salary cap in the NHL is a joke. The ONLY teams in the NHL that generate revenue are being killed by the cap. Blame Sather as much as Gainey and the Leafs management. But the real problem is that you cannot correct any mistakes when you have the money. That sux.

  73. NYRguy – exactly, if its Gilly its a bad trade, but as Higgins left his scoring instincts north of the border why not send him back there and clear Kotalik’s salary off the books?
    Jokinen now has 4 months to showcase his skills and prove he can play with Gabby, and if he can’t he’s a UFA and we can walk away and look to use the cap space elsewhere.

  74. Messiah – there’s no precedent here, its just that normally a trade requires sign-off by the 2 GM’s in this case it sounds like the GM’s have agreed but the deal can be nixed if Kotalik doesn’t agree to waive the NTC clause.

    Johnm – don’t blame the cap – blame the GM’s for not knowing how to use it properly. The buy-out needs to eb changed in my opinion but other than that its levelled the playing field and made teams realise the value of good drafting.

  75. UK…I think we’re walking away regardless…I’ll take Olli for half a year, but not the long term. Then again, it’s Glen Sather…

  76. Larry sounds like Calgary wanted Gilroy first but then decided on Higgins. NYRGuy and Uk- I agree, this place would be livid if it was Gilroy. I would be. You don’t just give up young puck moving d-man with speed and offensive skills during his first year as a pro. Not for the expiring contract of Jokinen. At the very least he should bring back more.

    In terms of NTC/NMC- wasn’t it Sather he would never give those to anyone? Right up until 2007. After that, everyone gets it all of a sudden. Does Erik Christensen have it too? lol

  77. Adam/UK – Yes, I understand that Kotalik must approve the trade. But if you give a player a limited NTC, obviously there is a reason why the player selects teams he won’t accept a trade to. And for Sather to basically ignore that isn’t good.

    Regardless, we can all agree that Sather still needs to go!

  78. True fans bleed RW&B on

    Uncle Larry makes it sound like calgary wanted kotalik and Gilroy for phaneuf, but Toronto pulled the trigger first so with calgary only having 2 forwards to dump, Higgins entered into the equation.

  79. I have to agree with Messiah94, and not b/c of the similar name. If I as a player select 3 teams in my contract that i dont want to be traded to, and my GM decides to choose one of those teams to trade me to, what does that say about the contract?

    Sather has no regard for anything and anyone.

  80. NTC’s don’t mean much anymore.
    Ask Giguere.
    Ask Danny Boyle.
    Ask Lecavalier. (pending sale is contingent on him waiving his).

  81. I’m hoping Dolan told Sather to clean up this freaking mess at least a little before Messier takes over…and I hope Messier is listening to Sather with earplugs

    I am also trying to figure out what the point of this move is…I think it was just a salary dump, to try to clear up some cap space…other than that I don’t see how this helps the Rangers…Prust, may be meaner but don’t we have a 3-4th liner in Hartford coughcoughByerscoughcough?
    Olli? Don’t know how to look at that one…hopefully he takes the C for mr. clutch.

  82. espn.com rumor mill is saying its callahan not higgins that would be going to calgary. i wont be happy with that.

  83. if we trade callahan in a deal for olli jokinen im going to be absolutely pissed.

    jokinen is garbage.

  84. It shouldn’t be called a NO TRADE CLAUSE.
    It should be called the “I need to approve a trade to these clubs” clause.

    Bottom line – as other GMs have figured out – and Sather needs to – these clauses are poison. Stop giving them out.

  85. NHL on XM is still saying that it’s Higgins, not Cally. Man, will I be pissed if it’s Cally.

  86. New York Rangers captain Chris Drury has plans to franchise the popular Stamford, Conn., pizzeria Colony Grill, with the first branch opening in Fairfield.

    Now I know, why he plays like a frosted pizza the whole season :)

  87. TheMessiah94
    February 1st, 2010 at 9:41 am
    NHL on XM is still saying that it’s Higgins, not Cally. Man, will I be pissed if it’s Cally.

    Same here.

  88. Cally is too vital, I doubt that he will be traded, however look what Slats did to Leetch and no one seen that coming.

  89. Callahan sucks in regards to hockey skill, but he’s a heart and soul kinda guy that works his tail off. So I’d much rather have Higgins gone than Callahan.

    Also apparently this trade isn’t happening. So Kots is going to be ripped apart now.

    Staal – if Messier is going to be our GM, we have major problems. I know I’m not a fan of the guy, but I can’t deny he was a great player. As a GM though, he has no idea what he’s doing. It’s already been rumored that Slats doesn’t think he’s ready for the job (he doesn’t understand the business side…then again neither does Glen). I hope we bring in a real GM and don’t let Messier ruin his reputation in NY with most people and more importantly ruin this team.

    The worst would be us hiring him as GM, him totally failing, and Dolan not wanting to fire him because he’s loved by so many. Then at a fanbase, who could really boo Messier (other than myself)? It would be the worst situation ever and we wouldn’t win a cup for 150 years.

  90. Domi – he traded Leetch because he was getting older and wasn’t going to help our team grow. Kondratiev was a decent prospect at the time (who didn’t pan out) but he was shipping out the old guys to build up for the future. I don’t think he wanted to trade Leetch, but the fact was he wasn’t he same player and only played another 2 or 3 years in the league. It sucked for fans, but it was something that had to be done.

    Callahan isn’t going to get traded because he’s still young and while he has limited hockey skills, like I said he’s a heart and soul guy. If we got some real forwards on this team, he’d be a 3rd line checker who could chip in with 5-10 (maybe 15) goals. But he has to play extra minutes and is in a bigger role than he should be. Higgins has better skills but needs a playmaker to get him the puck, something that Calgary has plenty of. I think he’ll be better there. Kotalik needs the same thing.

  91. According to Darren Dreger from TSN, Calgary is the one holding up this trade. They are apparently looking for a 3rd team to send Kotalik to, so he won’t have to waive anything.

  92. THE REAL MikeyNJ on

    Guys and gals.

    WHEN IS ESPN EVER right when it comes to Hokcey

    They know nothing, and Sather might be a total Re-TARD but Cally isn’t getting traded.

    Higgins & Kotalik, buh bye!!!

    I liek this deal for the cap space, the rmoval of the players doing nothing on our team, and the fact Oli’s contract is up after thsi year.

    If he plays good, make him a REASONABLE offer in the summer, if not, by by and more cap space

    What I’m wondering is if Slats intends to push for Kovy, which I hope he doesnt

    Eklund on his Twitter said Salts made an offer to Atlanta, but it HAD TO include REdden goign to ATL.

    Wadell said NO WAY IN HELL. hahah

  93. Jonny, what do you have against Messier?

    As for the trade, I think it’s a good one. Maybe Jokinnen comes in and scores a few goals. If he doesn’t score, then the team isn’t any worse off than they are now.

  94. Jlone2Bubblehead on

    I would like to see if Torts can use OJ on a different line than Gaborik. Maybe give us a different threat for teams to worry about. Use them both on the PP maybe. We have to see if they will click together, but idealy they should present more of a threat on different lines.

  95. the hold up is that calgary has come to there senses. sather wins big time here if its jokinen and prust for kotalik and higgins.. kotalik contract gone is the win for us. as long as jokinen doesnt get an extension we win

  96. Mikey – never listen to Eklund. When Slats calls, Waddell doesn’t pick up the phone. He lets him leave a message to see who he wants to trade, then calls back if he can rip him off. I hope Slats doesn’t try to get Kovalchuk too because he’s not coming. He wants to be in a quiet place where he can be the star on a winning team where their isn’t much fan/media pressure. NYC is not for him.

    Charlie – I have a few things with him. First, he takes credit for stuff he didn’t do, like the winning goal in game 7 of the cup finals. He didn’t score it, everyone knows it, he knows it, but he acted like he was the man and won the game for the Rangers.

    Second, he’s living off this whole “best captain of all time thing”. I mean he has this stupid joke of an award that the NHL hands out for leadership. It’s dumb, I hate it, and if he wants any credibility he needs to not associate himself with that award.

    Third and probably most, its great he finally won a cup for us, but he also set our franchise back about 4 years by playing for at least 1 or 2 years too long and refusing to play a limited role. Mess didn’t want to play 3rd or 4th line minutes even though at that stage in his career, that’s all he was. He lost his speed, his shot wasn’t as quick, and he wasn’t the player he was in his prime and into his early 30s. But he insisted to play 1st line minutes and while we might’ve not had a great team, him playing all that time didn’t help us out any.

  97. Jonny, I hated it when Mess was clearly done, but getting a lot of minutes, but that’s on the coach. The coach has to have the cojones to tell him that he doesn’t get first line minutes any more. Guys like Trottier played on the 4th line in the twilight of his career. They could have done the same with Mess, but they had no guts.

    Sure, Messier wanted to play all the time. They all do. It’s the coach that doles out the minutes, so I don’t blame Messier for the amount of minutes he was given.

  98. Doodie Machetto on

    He won us the cup whether that goal was off his stick or not. He could kick a puppy every day for the rest of his life and I would forgive him.

  99. guys, the trade isnt done yet. we might not be getting jokinen. if kots doesnt get sent to a 3rd team, and who would really want him unless we sweeten the deal even more, for jokinen??? eff him. only good thing is he would be gone next year and ales would still be here but this deal will likely not even go through cuz who the hell would want kots for 3 mill?

  100. TSNBobMcKenzie

    Olli Jokinen scheduled to be in Calgary lineup tonight vs. Philly. Maybe Brandon Prust, too, though it could be Brian McGrattan.

  101. I think calgary knows that the rangers are going to try and get kovy after this trade, and now they are stalling to try and prevent that from happening.

  102. lol kick a puppy??? hell, he could whip a rolled up towel at gary coleman everyday while kicking a new born baby puppy!!! mess is the man!!!

  103. TSNBobMcKenzie

    Jokinen/Prust for Higgins/Kotalik not expected to happen today and may not happen at all tho still possible this deal is done after game.

  104. Nasty,
    Why would Calgary care? If they cant get Kovi with Pheneuf, they were never gonna get him anyway. I think Gilroy must be part of the deal or Calgary is just making their team worse.

  105. sathers an idiot. he gives kots 3 mill and only 3 teams he cant be traded to and he tries to trade him to one of them!!! dumbass. i cant see this happening, and jokinen wouldnt do squat here anyway. good. let sather be screwed by his own stupid mistakes. im happy this trade didnt go through. maybe slats is working himself out the door more quickly now.

  106. Doodie Machetto on

    If you’re Chris Higgins, what do you do now? Do you play extra hard so that they won’t trade you, or do you suck it up so that nobody wants you?

  107. The only thing could be logistically. Maybe the Flames couldn’t ice a team tonight if they don’t have Olli and Purst. Maybe they couldn’t get Kotalik and Higgins to the Calgary game in time.

    But I doubt it.

  108. Charlie – The thing is Messier was Slats boy for the most part, so really anything Messier wanted, Messier was getting no matter who the coach was. It is on the coach, but nobody was going to tell Mess what he was going to do. The only guy who probably would’ve was John Muckler, but the other guys were too afraid of him and his relationship with Sather. That’s why I should’ve said I put half on Mess and half on Slats.

    Doodie – I just want Brian Noonan to get the respect he deserves for taking a bunch of shots in front of the net only to have that puck hit him and go in. I don’t even think people remember he was a Ranger, but the guy did all the hard work there. Show Noonan some love haha.

  109. Doodie Machetto on

    Nasty, the hold up isn’t Calgary, it’s Kotalik. Calgary was good with the deal until Kotalik said no.

  110. anything that helps this team barely squeak into teh playoffs will only screw us come draft time and it will look good for slats yet again. dont want it. let dolan see his gm totally helpless at trying to fix the team after he handcuffs himself and his possibilities. good. eff sather.

  111. Nasty,
    I think ATL is gonna make it difficult to trade Kovi. Unless they agree to let teams talk extension, what team (except for the NYR) would mortgage their future for a rental? I believe that guys like Kovi are difficult to trade, and never get the return value they should. If ATL moves him, it will be for middling players/picks or they will lose him outright this summer.

  112. GWG – Slats is an idiot because he gives out more partial NTCs or full NTCs than JFJ did in Toronto.

    Doodie – I think Higgins has too much character to just suck it up so they won’t trade him. Plus he’s a UFA at years end so if he doesn’t start doing some work, he’s going to be out of a job. He has a pretty bad rep around the league to begin with since his days in Montreal didn’t end so well. He was doing the same crap he’s doing in NYC, just the media was all over it.

    Funny because they said he could be the next Habs captain until he had a huge party and got the Kostitsyns and Carey Price drunk in front of the media. Maybe Higgy should lay off the booze for a little while.

  113. Gotta agree with your point about Leetch Jonny. As great as it would be to see franchise players retire only playing for one team, it doesn’t really happen anymore. Leetch wasn’t going to make the team a contender at that point and if he could be used to get parts for a rebuilding project then it was the right move to make.

    A little split on Messier though. I’m not as offended that he took credit from Noonan for the GWG in Game 7, but I think Game 6 vs the Devils alone gives him carte blanche with most of the fanbase. Now whether he had a hand in engineering trades that hurt the franchise in the proceeding years is something that’s impossible to prove.

    During his second tour of duty, the team was in such bad shape that I don’t know if he was blocking anyone developmentally that could have changed the fortunes of the team.

  114. Nasty – Rangers don’t have anything to go after Kovalchuk with. We’re not getting him, he doesn’t want to be in a big city like NY, so even if we traded for him somehow (which we can’t), he wouldn’t re-sign here anyway.

  115. Johnny if Sather says Messier is not ready…look who its coming from…I mean really Sather ain’t ready either.
    We also all know that Messier looks like he will be the next GM.
    And Cally doesn’t suck in the hockey skill department. He plays better than most of out team…which isn’t saying much, but he still a darn good hockey player.

  116. TSNBobMcKenzie
    Jokinen/Prust for Higgins/Kotalik not expected to happen today and may not happen at all tho still possible this deal is done after game.

  117. Doodie Machetto on

    Noonan and Matteau (both part of the Amonte trade) both sucked except for their big game winners in the playoffs. Honestly, if the Rangers hadn’t won the cup that year, I would have never forgiven them for trading Amonte and Gartner.

  118. Maybe I am right about the logistics. . . .But I have a hard time believing this trade anyway. Seems Kotalik has no say in denying this trade. read my link above.

  119. More from TSN:

    Sources tell TSN that while the Rangers thought they had the deal basically agreed to on Sunday night, the Flames weren’t ready to pull the trigger, in part, because they felt they needed Jokinen in the lineup tonight against Philadelphia in Calgary. There are reports that Kotalik isn’t prepared to waive his no-trade clause to go to Calgary but the indication is the Rangers were fully able and prepared to do this deal, but Calgary backed away at the last moment.

    It is unusual, to say the least, to play players who are supposed to be part of a trade – an injury could scuttle the whole thing – but it’s quite possible that’s exactly what the Flames are doing and that the deal could still be resurrected after the game.

    We should know more after tonight’s Calgary-Philadelphia game.

  120. That might actually make sense, particularly if all the players they’re getting from Toronto haven’t arrived yet

  121. CTBlueshirt – I don’t really hate him, I just think his whole leadership thing is overhyped and now that he’s retired he’s been living off it ever since. He was an immature kid until he was under the wings of Slats and Gretz. Then he wins 4 cups with Gretz, 1 on a team that was pretty much just as good without Gretz, and 1 in NY with all of his Edmonton buddies here anyway. There were plenty of guys who hates his guts too, but like you said, it’s hard to prove he had his hand in sending some guys away.

    I really wish he would’ve just retired a year or 2 earlier so we could’ve kind of moved on a bit earlier. Instead we had to build a team that he kind of didn’t fit in with but had to make him feel like we were building around him.

  122. If Jokinen plays tonight, he could just pop down to LA after the game and be in the lineup for us Tuesday night.

  123. I don’t see how MSG broadcast the trade unless it was true. I am confused for sure, but a network that owns the team would never put that up unless it was true because of the damage it would do. The flames may just need these bodies for tonight’s game.

  124. I hope it’s being held up for just logistical reasons. Why would Kotalik not want a chance to get out of NY? He’s not getting played anymore and the coach doesn’t like his style.

    I shudder to think that Calgary now realizes they’re taking on a dud for 2 extra years and then decide to squash the deal.

  125. Yeah Sutter sucks at knowing the cap so someone probably told him he can’t bring anyone up from the minors to play tonight without being over it, so he’s holding off. I’m sure it will get done by tomorrow though so Joks and Prust can be in when we get destroyed by the Kings.

  126. From PuckDaddy:

    “If the trade reported last night by TSN goes through, then Glen Sather has compromising pictures of Darryl Sutter. That is the only possible way to explain this perplexing and unnecessary trade that sends Olli Jokinen(notes) and Brandon Prust(notes) to New York for Ales Kotalik(notes) and Chris Higgins. Jokinen has one fewer point than the two Rangers combined, and has an expiring contract. Kotalik is terrible and signed for $3 million a year for this season and the two after that. Brilliant move by Sather, legendarily stupid move by Sutter, if it happens the way it’s currently configured.”

    That’s what I have been thinking.

  127. haha our organization is a joke!
    In most organizations a NTC is given to important players…
    Here in NY its standard equipment with your contract!!

  128. I heard the Calgary management were reading the Rangers blogs to gauge fan reaction and have decided that no way do they want to trade for 2 players who can’t score.

    Alternatively Kotalik could just have an aversion to Cowboy Hats and Horses? 3 teams = Calgary, Dallas, Edmonton?

  129. Blueshirt…I can give you 6 million reasons why Kotalik doesn’t jump at the chance to leave NY for Calgary. Sure it sucks to not play, but he doesn’t want to go to Calgary. If he’d rather sit around and get prucha’d every night, he still gets a pretty paycheck for 2 more years.

  130. Evitage, the reason Holik’s contract wasn’t as toxic as the Drury, Redden, Gomez contracts was that it was pre-salary cap. It didn’t strangle the team at all; it just cost Dolan a lot of money. They were able to buy him out and say goodbye, no cap hit for twice the length of the deal, as would be the case if they bought out Redden or Drury.

    Correction on my part: I said Higgins will be an RFA. He will actually be a UFA.

  131. Jonny, I think Messier was an important piece to the Oilers dynasty in his own right. Not as important as Gretzky mind you, but certainly a big reason why they won. He gave them a great #2 center that helped get over the hump against the Islanders and I’m sure had a hand in Glenn Anderson having a HOF career (however much I disagree with his election in the first place).

    Oilers still had some pretty stiff competition when Messier won that 5th Cup, Flames were still a good team and Chicago was building a good team then too.

    But for the record, I agree that he made himself bigger than team – maybe a reason why they let him walk the first time – and I have strong suspicions that he had some input into getting guys like Marty McSorley and Jarri Kurri when there was absolutely no need for those guys in that point in their careers.

  132. Here’s how it went down. Sather called Sutter last night from a golf course out in Europe when he knew that Darryl was out drinking. Sutter was hammered, they talked about the deal, Sutter agreed and said, we’ll sign off in the morning. Sutter woke up, someone told him what happened and responded “wait, I ALMOST F’IN DID WHAT?!?!?”

    Glen is sending him bottles of Blue Label express mail today in hopes they get there in time for tonight’s post-game…

  133. this trade will be dead all togther. calgary realizes that by taking kotalik for 2 years at 3 mill its terrible. the fact that kotalik has a no move clause to 3 teams is a joke. he is a 3rd line player who has big shot and misses 8 out of 10 times.

    reminds me of fulton reed from mighty ducks the movie.

    my question is why would sutter want higgins over gilroy.

    sather was offering gilroy and sutter said no i wnat higgins instead.

    please for our sake take higgins

  134. Plus Carp, back in the pre-cap days, guys weren’t UFAs until they were 31. So it was pretty much their last contract, hence why we threw 9 million at Holik (which was still dumb). And like you said, we weren’t handcuffed with that deal.

  135. Just found out – Sutter is dsylexic!
    He thought Slats was sending him Kovalchuk not Kotalik as part of the deal!!

  136. i dont see how the trade as proposed will work out. sather might be trying to work out a deal not involving kotalik to calgary, but kotalik to another team. that means sather might end up trading gilly and that would be stupid. hes been crappy this year, but hes still a rookie, no matter his age. he has the skill. just needs some tiem before slats gives up on him

  137. Doodie Machetto on

    Carp, what do you think the chances of this trade going down are? Sounds like the deal is dying to me.

    Also, buying out Drury and Redden isn’t as toxic as you might think. Rozsival is almost begging to be bought out:

    Drury: 2.145 for four years.
    Redden: 1.8975 for eight years.
    Rozsival: 1.155 for four years.

    Rozsi should be bought out, no question.

  138. Well trading Gilroy would actually help clear more space over the summer provided they still let Higgins walk after this year. And for me this deal is about getting as many expiring contracts as possible.

    I had a little higher hopes for Gilroy this year but he’s basically a 3rd pair D with a little bit of offense. Of course he can develop but he’s only under contract for next year and I’m not sure if the Rangers have begun to have doubts about whether he can progress enough at the NHL level.

  139. Remember the Messier/Otto fight ’96 Neil Smith, yes Neil Smith shipped him out to Vancouver after the Philly series. Leadership only lasts so long.Same with Leetch. Yes only so LONGGG. Get a grip on the hockey trade carp.

  140. soo, the rangers won last night huh? lol. good game too. gabby was brilliant as was prospal. id resign prospal if i was slats. forget jokinen. sign vinny for another year until AA is ready to step up or if not, then try to trade for one. great game for johnson. he was pretty good down low with his positioning and was quick to get rebounds. good job by the kid

  141. Doodie – i think your maths is wrong (it’s 2/3 the value of the contract over twice the term – therefore 1/3 the cap hit for double the years remaining):

    Drury $2.66m for 4 years
    Dreaden $2.166m for 8 years
    Roszi $1.66m for 4 years

    Roszi should be easier to trade as his salary drops to $4m and $3m (despite retaining a $5m cap hit) over the following 2 seasons.

  142. So Slats managed to try and trade Kotalik to one of only three teams he knew he couldn’t make a trade to? Brilliant! That’ll show ’em!

  143. Carp – I know he didn’t, but I just meant that Muckler would’ve been the only one not afraid to tell him he’s playing reduced minutes. And it’s just my opinion. Like I said he only captained two cup winning teams. He failed in Vancouver and did next to nothing in his second stint. I think he was great when he had guys around him who were on the same track. But when he had a few guys that didn’t agree with him, he didn’t know how to bring them into the team concept.

    Like I said I understand why many Rangers fans love him and I don’t necessarily hate him, I just think he’s overhyped and the NHL Leadership Joke…I mean award, is further proof of that.

  144. Eric – they don’t need d-men. Thats why. They dropped Phaneuf because he was probably their 4th or 5th best d-man (and was terrible). Gilroy wont play in their lineup. They need forwards to add around some of the playmakers they have. Higgins is decent and Kotalik has a big shot so they figure they might as well take their chances while dumping Jokinen. I think Sutter didn’t know that Kotalik was signed for 3 years, and now that he found out, he’s backing off.

  145. Doodie – explain your maths please (not arguing just want to see how you’ve done it):

    Mine:

    $7.5 x 2 years = $14.1m x 2/3 = $9.39m
    spread over 4 years = $2.35m per year

    (oops my mental arithmetic was a bit wrong first time)

  146. Also I just thought, why didn’t we trade Dubinsky, Rozsival, and a pick or two for Heatley back over the summer when that was the best deal on the table for Ottawa? All sources said they were ready to take on Rozy if Dubi was included. We could’ve had Heatley and Gaborik on the same line and managed to dish off Rozy’s contract.

    Also Doodie – why buy them out when you can put Redden and Rozy in the AHL? Drury we’ll have to buy out, but he’s got 2 years left so just let him rot or something.

  147. Jonny, I think it’s more simple than that: When he captained great teams, they won. When he captained bad teams, they didn’t. That doesn’t change the quality of his leadership.

  148. Anyone have 2 tickets available for Rangers vs Islanders Wednesday March 24th?
    I checked a few ticket sites and cheapest are $75 for 400’s, which is ridiculous!!!!

    Thanks!

    Patrick

  149. I dont understand why Calgary would do this trade???

    I would understand if Gilroy was involved but is Jokinen that bad they need to get rid of him ASAP???

  150. “Leadership” and “intangible” qualities I think tend to get overrated, particularly when the writers are looking to fluff out a piece on a winning team.

    However I think having forceful personalities that are willing to do set examples for the team are not a bad thing to have.

    The award is kind of cheesy, but even if you can’t define what good leadership is, we can certainly see that a team like the Rangers that has been lacking in that department for the past couple of years, isn’t going to play that well.

  151. Messier has done a great job branding himself as the Best Captain of all Time. But right now, the Rangers just need a better than average management team, and that’s not looking so good.
    Sounds like either the Rangers or Flames messed up the deal, or maybe both teams. Shocker.

  152. Messier was on 5 Sather Stanley cup teams in Edmonton. Some of the reporters in New York are a bunch of hogwash

  153. Just read on TSN that the Calgary deal is on hold. No reason given. Calgary has not signed off on the deal.

  154. CT, I don’t disagree that the award is cheesy. But I think in some cases — especially Messier’s case — leadership and intangibles are not overrated. Not at all. I have never seen anybody like him …

    and, in reference to the idea he wasn’t captain for the first four Cups in Edmonton … no, Gretzky wore the C, but Messier was the team leader there, too. He was surrounded by great leaders there, including Kevin Lowe, who would have been one of the great captains of all-time if he was on any other team.

  155. according to espn.com the rangers have made an offer for kovy. this is according to their insider page whih is often incorrect, but its just a thought

  156. Want to know about Messier’s leadership qualities then hear about it from his peers:

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FCM/is_4_29/ai_69064427/

    Gravey quote:
    Messier’s mere presence has resuscitated a floundering franchise, said Graves, whose reverence for Messier transcends brotherhood. His words, in fact, are awe-inspiring. “Everybody knows about his intangibles,” Graves said of Messier. “As a leader, he’s second to none. There’s no greater leader in team sports. But the thing people tend to overlook is that he’s still a great player. He can still skate. He can still pass, can still play. I’m just so glad to have him back.”

  157. Doodie Machetto on

    Actually, I need to correct myself, it’s a bit more complicated than that.

    So, I am right that the buyout number is 2/3s of the remainder of the contract. But the cap hit is that buyout number spread out over twice the remaining contract subtracted from the amount of actual salary due subtracted from the original cap hit. The cap hit would have to be recalculated every year. It could even result as a credit.

    Looking at Rozsival, it would be:

    Buyout amount of 4.62 million, spread over 4 years of 1.115. Actual salary due is 4 million next year, so buyout savings are 2.885 million. Subtracted from his cap hit of 5 million, next year his cap hit would be 2.115. The following year, his salary is 3 million, which would yield a result 3.115 million cap hit. The following two years it would be 1.115. Not as appealling.

    Drury: Buyout amount of 8.58 million. Spread out over 4 years is 2.145. next year his salary is 8 million. that’s a buyout savings of 5.855 million. His cap number is 7.05, making his cap number for next year 1.195. The following year, his salary is 5 million, yielding a result of 4.195 million. Yeesh. following two years are 2.145.

    Redden: Buyout amount is 15.18 million. Spread over eight years is 1.8975. First two years his salary is 6.5. Buyout savings of 4.6025. Subtracted from his 6.5 million cap number and we’re back at 1.8975. Next two years his salary is 5 million. Buyout savings of 3.1025. Cap hit of 3.3975 for those two years. Then the final 4 would be 1.8975.

    None of those seem plausible. Too bad.

  158. Doodie Machetto on

    Actually, I need to correct myself, it’s a bit more complicated than that.

    So, I am right that the buyout number is 2/3s of the remainder of the contract. But the cap hit is that buyout number spread out over twice the remaining contract subtracted from the amount of actual salary due subtracted from the original cap hit. The cap hit would have to be recalculated every year. It could even result as a credit.

    Looking at Rozsival, it would be:

    Buyout amount of 4.62 million, spread over 4 years of 1.115. Actual salary due is 4 million next year, so buyout savings are 2.885 million. Subtracted from his cap hit of 5 million, next year his cap hit would be 2.115. The following year, his salary is 3 million, which would yield a result 3.115 million cap hit. The following two years it would be 1.115. Not as appealling.

    Drury: Buyout amount of 8.58 million. Spread out over 4 years is 2.145. next year his salary is 8 million. that’s a buyout savings of 5.855 million. His cap number is 7.05, making his cap number for next year 1.195. The following year, his salary is 5 million, yielding a result of 4.195 million. Yeesh. following two years are 2.145.

    Redden: Buyout amount is 15.18 million. Spread over eight years is 1.8975. First two years his salary is 6.5. Buyout savings of 4.6025. Subtracted from his 6.5 million cap number and we’re back at 1.8975. Next two years his salary is 5 million. Buyout savings of 3.1025. Cap hit of 3.3975 for those two years. Then the final 4 would be 1.8975.

    None of those seem plausible. Too bad.

  159. Doodie Machetto on

    UKRanger, your problem (aside from both of us being wrong about how the cap hit is calculated) is that in determining the buyout number, you’re spreading the contract evenly. It looks at the actual dollars owed per year, not the cap dollars. Drury earns 8 and 5 over the next two years. Rozsival 4 and 3. Redden 6.5 for two and then 5 for two.

  160. Thanks Doodie – i thought it was simpler than that.

    I think the implausible thing is that it would be Slats admitting he has made a mistake by buying them out..!

  161. i still dont understand why Calgary would even accept this deal.

    There has to be more than just Kotalik’s NTC…

  162. Doodie Machetto on

    Yeah, it just does the formula I just did. Although, the starting contract numbers it used are slightly different than mine.

  163. Doodie Machetto on

    I imagine the draw on Kotalik is as a PP specialist. CGY has a bad PP. The draw on Higgins? Maybe on the PK to replace Sjostrom?

  164. I fnd it hard to believe that someone even starts questioning Messier’s leadership qualities.

    I also find it hard to believe that Calgary is delaying the trade just to play OJ against the Flyers.

  165. Doodie…I feel like I’m in Math class…I’m done with school, I don’t want to feel like I’m back lol

  166. Maybe Calgary is doing this deal because they are trying to get Kovy? Dunno how or why, but maybe?

  167. Uncle Carp you are very smart !

    You and your friends from the NY media have invented this myth about this trade in order to increase the hits of all the NY forums in the internet…and you guys were sure that the canadien outlets would pop up this thing all over the continent…

    YOU ARE AN OLD RASCAL :)

  168. It is always good to hear both sides of a story. Like uh “Perhaps Avery is the best Ranger player.”From an obvious tied in NY sportswriter.

  169. Bert – That is the second post in a row from you that I can’t make sense out of. Explain yourself.

  170. I don’t think the trade is dead. I think the Rangers will be in dealings with Calgary, Toronto, and Atlanta, and will wind up with Olli and Kovy.

  171. ThisYearsModel on

    LOL. Hradek just commented on 2 incompetent NHL team managers resulting in a trade falling through……NY and Calgary.

  172. Doodie, in fact I have a feeling that Calgary will start asking for more. Like Gilroy instead of Higgins. Then it’d better be dead!

  173. Doodie, I am watching NHL live now with EJ Hradek and the always sweet Deb Placey, and they reporting the trade is…

    PUT ON HOLD

  174. 1. Why would Sather try to trade Gilroy?
    2. Why would Calgary want Higgins instead of Gilroy?
    3. What the hell is going on?

    Carp, thanks for staying up late last night to cover the trade if necessary.

    Now there are reports that Calgary wants Jokinen to play in tonight’s game, and then the deal might be made. haha

  175. Miami – we’re not getting Kovalchuk. Even if we do, he’s not staying here. He doesn’t want to be in NY and has already said so.

    Also I’m not questioning Mess’ leadership abilities. I’m just saying I think he himself is overhyped because of that. Like I honestly feel that when he does become the Rangers GM, we’ll be in a worse situation because if he does screw up, which I think he will, its going to be hard for many fans to want him to get fired. Everyone is going to be like “BUT HE WON US A CUP!!!” instead of realizing that he’s not ready for the job.

    And even if they do turn on him, I don’t want that being part of his legacy here in NY. He won the cup, first in 54 years here in NY, no need to ruin that by giving him a job he isn’t qualified for and risk hurting his reputation.

  176. Call me an idiot, and call me crazy, but we are talking about Sather here. The writing is on the wall here. If these are the last moves he ever makes as GM, he is going to leave his big stinky cigar smelling fingerprint on this organization.

  177. Good work by Sather if he can pull it off as stated. Now FIRE him and no to Mess as GM, but you all know he’s next. Yes to Shoney.

  178. Back to Messier/Otto – the fight was a culmination of a tough playoff series with Philly. Your buddy Joe LaPointe before the series said Philly would win in 4. He was right. But at that time I thought he was wrong. And I still think he would have been if Otto had not run at Leetch’s ankle along the boards in Game 2 and busted his ankle. Later in the series Messier and Otto got into a scrap. It really didn’t matter who won. The series was over. Otto held his own. And Neil Smith,yes Neil Smith decided to go another route and shipped Messier to Vancouver. I agreed with that move at the time.I also agreed with shipping Leetch at his age out of here.

  179. From Bob McKenzie this morning on TSN.ca:

    It is expected that Olli Jokinen will be in the Calgary Flames’ lineup when they play tonight in Calgary against the Philadelphia Flyers. Brandon Prust may also be in the lineup but it could be Brian McGrattan instead.

    In any case, it is clear that the deal that looked on Sunday night as though it was agreed to – Jokinen and Prust to the New York Rangers in exchange for Chris Higgins and Ales Kotalik – is not going to happen over the course of today.

    It’s obviously possible the deal may not get done at all, but the mere fact that one or both players are in the Flames’ lineup tonight doesn’t mean for certain it won’t get done either.

    Sources tell TSN that while the Rangers thought they had the deal basically agreed to on Sunday night, the Flames weren’t ready to pull the trigger, in part, because they felt they needed Jokinen in the lineup tonight against Philadelphia in Calgary. There are reports that Kotalik isn’t prepared to waive his no-trade clause to go to Calgary but the indication is the Rangers were fully able and prepared to do this deal, but Calgary backed away at the last moment.

    It is unusual, to say the least, to play players who are supposed to be part of a trade – an injury could scuttle the whole thing – but it’s quite possible that’s exactly what the Flames are doing and that the deal could still be resurrected after the game.

    We should know more after tonight’s Calgary-Philadelphia game.

  180. say what you want about Sather…he is THE BEST at trades in the NHL…

    now his free agent signings on the other hand…

    I wonder if he can be the designated trade negotiator…while someone else signs players…

  181. LOL Eklund thinks that Callahan is in play. As if the Rangers would ever trade him. That guy is a douche. Dredger is reporting that it will go down after the game

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