Manny ways to look at this

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Back in the late 1990s, the argument that polarized the Rangers’ management more than any other was Manny Malhotra. John Muckler disliked him, Neil Smith loved him. Muckler thought he was a dime-a-dozen player, Smith thought he was a first-line, next-Adam Graves. And I think most of my problems with Muckler arose out of  the way he mis-handled Malhotra, who, even if he was a dime-a-dozen player, was a great asset. In other words, if they didn’t want him, they should at least talk him up and treat him like a gem to build up his trade value.

Sharks Kings Hockey

Whatever.

The point is — and I’ve lost bets on this kid — he turned out to be exactly what most NHL people thought he would be: A really solid, dependable third-line NHLer for a long time.

I’m getting to a point here. Malhotra, still only 29, plays on the second or third lines for the San Jose Sharks, a team far, far, far better than the Rangers. He plays 16-17 minutes a night. He has 9-13-22, +14 numbers (three game-winners, two PPGs). He’s big. He can skate. He’s got some toughness. He will stick up for teammates. He is, in short, a great teammate … a lot like Graves without the offensive numbers. And he makes $700,000 this year!

Now, my point is this. I say the Rangers are made up of one star and a whole basket of third- and fourth-line forwards. It’s actually worse than that. And if you don’t agree, then ask yourself this question:

Would you rather have Manny than … Marian Gaborik? No.
Would you rather have Manny than … Brandon Dubinsky, Ryan Callahan or Artem Anisimov? At this point, probably not. They have better upside and are younger. But Manny’s as good as any of them right now.
Would you rather have Manny than … Chris Drury? I won’t even bother with that one, but you could have 10 Malhotras for Drury’s salary.
Would you rather have Manny than … Ales Kotalik, Sean Avery, Vinny Prospal, Christopher Higgins, Brian Boyle, Erik Christensen, Aaron Voros, Enver Lisin, Donald Brashear? NO DOUBT!

Now bear in mind that several of those guys play on the first and second lines here.

How much of an indictment of your 2009-10 New York Rangers roster is that?

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258 Comments

  1. Doodie Machetto on

    I’d take Prospal over Malhotra.

    But Carp, you’re about to spark out the Avery man-love!

    Going back to my question about the ice, someone said they lay something down and then put down the hardwood, etc. Does the ice stay frozen underneath that?

  2. Gravey - Formerly known as Jor71 on

    Well, I was Carped and Prucha’d……..

    Repost:

    Well, we are playing the ‘Yotes tomorrow, so I am sure we are going to make a trade with them.

    I would not mind seeing Alexei Ponikarovsky or Stajan in a NYR uniform.

    http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/?id=307803

    Fire Sather!!!!!!

  3. Doodie Machetto on

    I’d also take Malhotra over Redden, Rozsival, and whatever fringe player is our backup goaltender of the day.

  4. very interesting Carp. i never was a fan of muckler, and the way he treated this kid cemented my feelings towards him.

  5. nice carp. liked brooks’ article today too. since it was a good idea to bring another defenseman on the road trip its not surprising that they didn’t do so.

    the two drafts that hurt the most are the 03 when we passed on parise and the Brendl/Lundmark draft-Two top picks that never amounted to much in the nhl, but boy have the sedin twins become players

  6. Wow. The old Malhotra wound. You just ripped the band-aid right off of that one. That whole thing was the Rangers in a nut shell for that time period. Nobody on the same page.

  7. Petr Prucha — 11 goals. But at least the Rangers got someone good out of that deal. Oh, never mind. But at least Phoenix is a lousy team. Oh wait, they’re in 4th place with 67 points. Nice job, Slats.

  8. Doodie Machetto on

    Pete, we weren’t in line for the Sedins. No one else was really a star in that first round except Havlat and he didn’t go until the end of the round, so pretty much every team passed on him.

    And Brendl looked like the real deal. He was amazing in juniors, and had a frame that could have some size on it.

  9. Callahan 4 Captain on

    The more good system players you discard, the more likely you will be giving away a gem. Prucha, Korpedo, Malhotra, even Umberger, whom many wrote off as a bust, is having a really decent year. Although in his case, he signed with Philly and didnt’ want to be a Ranger prospect, any longer. Maybe someone whispered in his ear about how prospects, even our best prospects, are treated like cattle on the Hartford shuttle. The current back-up goalie merry-go-round being an excellent example. Young players here cannot count on having a future here – until they reach the undeveloped journeyman stage, which, sadly, is then their best chance for sticking with the parent roster.

    Between the awful FA contract signings, and the garbage treatment of the young blood in the organization, The Fat Man’s legacy for his time here will be the complete waste of what could have been productive, competitive years at or near the top. And, really sobering, is the thought that if this team misses the playoffs this year, Fat Boy will not be held accountable and fired. He will fire the coach and make the usual “cosmetic” changes to the roster, and that will be it.

  10. Carp
    STOP JUMPING INTO MY MIND!!

    wow! seriously. i was watching a bit of the San Jose game last night and saw Malhotra in front of the net with his tip that tied the game at 3. and when they showed that it was his 9th, i immediately thought of posting something today about how Manny is doing in general vs. him being railroaded out of here as well as how much better it is than many Ranger players.

    btw, sad thing is Muckler was right in his assessment but to hold such a public (and private) grudge against the kid was just wrong. Manny was a team player and has matured…elsewhere.

  11. great post carp – was a big malhotra fan and happy to see him doing well in SJ.
    Goes back to saying – if we only kept our drafted players from the late 90’s/early 2000’s … we would probably be a very solid team.

  12. I have a Malhotra jersey I bought his rookie year at Cosby’s…

    Anyone else have a jersey of red headed step child Ranger?

  13. on that same subject of ex-Rangers.
    maybe someone here can come up with the stats of
    Dawes and Lundmark in Calgary
    as well as Prucha and Korpikoski in Phoenix

    one can always argue that a change of scenery did ‘em good
    but just like many other cases, why do the Rangers have to be like another “draft” for the rest of the league. haven’t done it in some time but several years ago i looked at NHL rosters and all but a few had a player(s) with Ranger connection — draftee/AHL/NHL roster

  14. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Malhotra over Prospal? Avery? Eh, it’s a stretch. Avery actually does bring intangibles (contrary to the “C”) and Prospal can be a top 6 forward.

    My argument would be that Malhotra, Avery, and Prospal could compose the forwards on lines 2 and 3 eliminating the other sieves on this team… but your point is a good one Carp.

  15. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    I’ve also started to appreciate Boyle too… I think he’s very Blair-esque. Does a simple, but effective job. Point is that these players have roles on the team, worth a salary.

    Drury, Kotalik, Higgins, Rozi, Redden, Brashear, Voros, and Christensen really don’t have roles on this team OR can’t fill the ones they were expected to have.

  16. Prospal is fading. Predictably. Avery is now a third- or fourth-liner, as he should be, but he’s not even playing at a level acceptable for him.

  17. that is why you ned to have patience with young guys.

    PATIENCE……..dubi, cally, anisimov need time. so do mdz, staal, gilroy and others……………………

    getting kovalchuk would not happen but if it did would be a classic ranger hail mary franchise killing move.

    trade higgins, kotalik, and girardi at the deadline if you can and that is it. GIrardi if the yfeel has reached his peak or regressed then they should move hime they have d men in the minors that can do what he does…………..

  18. avery is a poor mans darcy tucker and that is all he is.. he plays hard but he is not very effective that is the bottom line……..

  19. ThisYearsModel on

    Say what you want about the Rangers coaching…..but Renney got a lot more out of Avery than Torts has. Avery is a shell of his former effecive self.

  20. Doodie Machetto on

    Prospal is fading from overuse. If they limited him, I think he would do a better job.

    That Dubinsky-Christensen-Gaborik line that was scoring goals while Prospal was out, why wasn’t it ever reunited?

    Prospal could move down and play wing with Callahan and Anisimov.

  21. Here ya go. Nothing outstanding but Dawes and Prucha would be good 3rd line fits.

    Nigel Dawes 51 10 15 25
    Jamie Lundmark 17 4 4 8
    Petr Prucha 53 11 7 18
    Lauri Korpikoski 44 4 3 7

  22. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Prospal’s production tanked when Gaborik stopped scoring, if Gaborik finds his touch again then Prospal will have more points. Obviously, Prospal has to avoid any other medical issues too.

    Avery’s expected to score some points with Drury? Christensen? Really? His game has not been good, but it’s also due to their center’s (and the guys he’s played with; Kotalik, Boyle, Higgins, Lisin, Drury, Voros) having ZERO offensive ability.

  23. I loved Manny but I am not sure I would rather have him than Avery – Avery is a sparkplug for the entire team when he is at his best, Manny is a second line center who wins faceoffs. Still would love to have him on the Rangers.

    It must also be said that Jed Ortmeyer (7 goals, 8 assists +5) played nearly 13 minutes last night and had six shots for the Sharks. San Jose had Manny, Jed and Scott Nichol together for much of this season and they were the best energy line I have watched in years. Just sayin’ …

  24. thanks John

    interesting about Dawes, he started off pretty hot
    and i thought he was playing on the Flames’ first or second line at one point. i know that the team has had its troubles, overall, for some time. even worse for them, compared to us, since more is expected.

    thought Prucha was doing better than that, but still it’s better than others around here…….and cheaper.

  25. Scotty, that’s the other thing. Your third and fourth lines are supposed to provide energy, or to be able to check the opponent’s scorers, or to forecheck and wear down the other team’s D, or at least contribute something. How often have the Rangers gotten that out of their third and fourth lines? In addition to the near-zero offense they get out of their second line?

  26. I always liked Manny. Mainly because he knocked Ken Daneyko into some other plane of existence with one punch. But he has had a terrific season and a solid NHL career.

    The Sharks also have Jed Ortmeyer who has been helping them as well.Ortmeyer was a guy that didn’t show me much while he was here other than “energy”

    Good for Manny. Screw you John Muckler

    Monday Night Hockey (Yes NHL Tried it) 1980 NYR vs Minn Video: Barry Beck’s crunching open ice Body Check on Mike Eaves

    http://www.rangercrisis.com

  27. Rangers are practicing 5 miles from my Studio. I can’t go because I have too many appointments this morning. I was hoping to give you guys a report on line combos & stuff.

  28. Harvey 20,

    I have a Naslund jersey, but in my defense i got it for 50% off when BC sports was closing in source mall. LOL

  29. What’s amazing to me is that in the past few years Don Maloney has done a better job than Sather at building a team. Granted Maloney had a lot further to rally the team and probably had a boatload of draft picks (I really don’t know), but I am sure PHO’s payroll looks a ton more manageable than the NYR’s. It’s a f-ing joke.

    Also, no one seems to factor this in and I am not making an excuse, but playing in NYC is a tough task for kids who come to the big city for the first time. Think of all the trouble you can get into going out boozing, chasing skirt, etc. I think when Mess was the C, guys didn’t want to let him down and slack off or he would F your S up. With Drury earning 7mm (btw, is that clown due $8mm next year?) he probably doesn’t give a S what anyone does as long as the bank teller clears his checks. But boy could he throw a fastball in Little League.

    Meanwhile, I think we need to be a seller of Prospal at the deadline. Isn’t he here on a 1 yr deal? No way he stays here next year for the salary we have him for this year, right? He still has value. He has some playoff experience. We could get a prospect and some picks for him probably.

    Last point and we’ve talked about it, Brashear has to be right up there with Gomer, Drury, and Redden signings for top 10 worst of all time in the NHL. I mean I know his $$ is not as considerable as the others, but that P of S can’t fight, can’t hit, and can’t even really skate anymore and we have him for a whole other season? And you cannot even get any money back against the cap cuz he is an old man in the league. That is so messed up!

    Watch…they get 4 of 6 pts on the road the next 3.

  30. Doodie Machetto on

    Anyone ever consider whether Muckler was a racist? I mean, why so much open and unbridled hate for one of your players that had done absolutely nothing wrong?

  31. i thought it was haseks wife! eeeeeeeeew mucklers wife…thats just nasty. they guy was 110 back in the 90’s!!

  32. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Newman,
    The difference is not just 1 year cap hit, but multi-year cap hit. Brash is bad, but 1.4mil for 2 years total is bad but not awful. The albatross contracts of Rozi (4 years?) Redden (6 years) and Drury (5 years) total to $94.25MILLION DOLLARS!!! ARGH! I SCREAMED AFTER CALCULATING!

  33. Your right in some respects about the Rangers. The problem I see with a lot of your comments is that you say the same thing about individual players whether the team is 2-10 like about now or 10-2 about a month ago, I would focus more on coaching than individual team effort. I saw the Coyote game last night against Calgary. You have Prucha on the Power Play . He is doing fine there. Got an assist on the power play. You have Korpikowski getting an important goal in the shootout.The difference is obviously Dave Tippett. Gretsky was never a good coach in my opinion. Basically we are dealing with the same personnel in Phoenix this year as we did last year.Take Ottawa,its the coach that turned that team around (admittedly with better goaltending).Look at Colorado.. They have 8 rookies in the lineup and are leading the league in rookie scoring..
    Now about Torts. I thought he would be great. Up tempo offensive type game. Exciting to watch. Now he has improved the power play no doubt. And Boyle certainly has improved. But he is a very emotional guy who has put most of the rest of the team in the doghouse. They are tentative, unconfident and scramble around in a disorganized fashion. I don’t care how many shots you have on ice. You won’t score much that way. You need planned ,executed plays that are deceptive, surprise the goaltender get you the lead that you can hold onto.
    On defense , you cant make mistakes. There are not that many goals scored period. Everyone on defense in worse this year than they were last year. You’re A mid term report for Del Zotto- he is a minus 17. He has been on the ice too many times when the opposition scored. He was better in training camp than he is now. I would give him an A for Apprentice 1st class. That’s it.
    There are only 10 or 15 offensive game breakers in the NHL .Gaborik used to be one of them. There are less than 10 Goalie gamebreakers in NHL. King Hank is one of those. The rest of the guys are just fillers. And there are a lot more in the NHL.I know what Torts wants. He wants a good power play guy like Danny Boyle and a good passer in Brad Richards. It is not there.
    Where Sather falls apart is staying to long with a coach. Lou Lam does not. This offensive trip will be interesting.
    If I was Sather I would have talked to Andy Murray and Mike Keenan.Sign up one or the other.(Pending West coast trip ).
    As for Sather, the Rangers are a thriving business. 2nd in value to the Toronto Maple Leafs. Guess what I pay for 2 hot dogs and 2 beers at MSG . I have asked friends that . They say 15. Actually it is twice that.
    If you want Sather out, l would make a deal with the DEVIL. Call the Devil owner, they need to fill seats over there. Sather makes good trades.A lotof seats sold at garden are corporate seats that will be sold regardless of record.
    Manny Maholtra – a 1st round pick who just makes the 3rd or 4th line. Went to Dallas, then to Columbus-(Hitchcock liked him but no 1 or 2 liner.) Muckler said about Manny-he is no 1st rounder. What the Rangers need is an energy line -like the HMO line. That used to be the best line to watch during a game when they were on the ice.

  34. I’d take Higgins over him, I think he just hasn’t finished this year but has created a ton of chances. Puck will start going his way by the end of the season if not next season where his value will drop due to his lack of actual statistics

  35. Glenn Sather right place, right time in the 80s, the dumbest Mofo in the NHL every year after….how is that not blatantly obvious to everyone who knows anything about hockey is beyond me?

  36. Man, three o clock can not come fast enough today. I usually plan my weekend around games and such, but not this weekend. I will just DVR the games, check scores from my blackberry, and then decide if it is worth my time to bother watching.

  37. And btw, if every game is a sellout, please tell me why you can walk up to the box office on any night and buy a ticket? And why do they advertise tickets on the scoreboard at the games if they are all sold out? Someone ain’t being honest…

  38. yea doodie i know we never had a chance on the sedins, i am just surprised that they both have become such great players having not paid much attention to the canucks in recent years. this year i drafted henrik in the 3rd round and needless to say he has been performing pretty well.

    maloney certainly didn’t help this franchise draft when he was here. maloney was a big proponent of selecting jessiman and with sather’s “hands-off” work style i’m sure he let those below him do much of the work (and probably still does)

  39. I like what Avery is trying to do this year in terms of being a leader on the team. But that in itself is a problem. Sean Avery should not have to be a leader on the team. She is excellent at what he does, and he is trying to be a leader, and I think that it takes away from him doing what he does best. When we had Shanny and Jags and a better team, Avery could shine on through and do what he does best. Now, he is trying to do too much, and it is a shame.

  40. “Would you rather have Manny than … Ales Kotalik, Sean Avery, Vinny Prospal, Christopher Higgins, Brian Boyle, Erik Christensen, Aaron Voros, Enver Lisin, Donald Brashear? NO DOUBT!”

    Are you kidding me Carp???

    I’d rather have Avery, Boyle & Prospal for sure than Manny who was sent down to AHL more times that he has goals in his career. He couldn’t make a roster spot in Calgary, suddenly he’s a “star” in San Jose? C’mon.

  41. the umberger debacle was really frustrating. sather wouldn’t give him a contract without a tryout 1st, and this is a guy who throws money at every marginal 3rd liner he can find come july 1st. now umberger isn’t an all-star by any means, but he was the best thing we got out of sather’s fire sale to canadian teams only

  42. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Carp,
    Sorry, I totally disagree after checking numbers on Avery vs. Manny.

    Avery
    208pts in 469 games (+16)

    Manny
    219pts in 682 games (-18)

    Avery’s more talented and brings more to the team.

  43. Just for and giggles, I substituted the name Valeri Kamenski into Carp’s points about Malhotra. It was supposed to make me feel better…it didn’t.

    Boy did I hate him…

  44. Carp – Lets not forget that Manny was almost out of hockey for good before the lockout. Then once the new style came out post lockout, he found success. He bounced around for awhile after we got rid of him, but the new open style of hockey made him become a more effective player.

    And Malhotra for the role he plays is more effective than Avery. Manny is a great defensive center that can add a little bit of offense here and there. He works hard every shift, does all the little things, and will stick up for anyone on the team.

    Everyone Rangers fan seems to have this misconception that Avery is extremely important and is untradable. Only problem is that he isn’t that good. He’s a great pest (when he wants to be) and is a much better leader this year. But he takes shifts off and his defensive play is extremely hit or miss. Thank god we’re not paying him 4 million a year otherwise it’d be a huge waste.

    I personally think Manny @ 700k > Avery @ 2 mil.

  45. Here is from Eklund, ha.

    Would you want this?

    Redden, Dubinsky, Higgins and picks for Vinny?

  46. Also Sather’s problem is the fact that he’s tinkered too much with the team. He wanted to take it from Jagr’s European style and make it into a more North-South style team, but instead of just starting over, he tried to mend it together. Because of that we have no identity at all, especially because of the guys that grew up in Renney’s defensive system that are trying to play Torts’ style.

    When you look at all good teams, they all play a specific style from top to bottom and you know what you are going to get. When you play the Rangers, you have no idea whats going to happen because they don’t excel at any one aspect of the game. They aren’t great at secondary scoring, they aren’t great defensively, and they don’t have great playmakers.

    Watch the Kings or the Hawks or even the Devils and you’ll see every player from top to bottom knows their role, knows the system, and plays within it. The Rangers just look lost out there now.

  47. No way Nasty. As good as Vinny is and the new ownership coming in wanting to clean house, he would screw us even more. First off, new ownership would never approve that deal. They want to cut payroll, not add to it, and Redden (6.5) + Dubi (1.75 – RFA) + Higgins (2.25 – RFA) are worth more than Vinny’s 7.75 million deal. If we inherite Vinny’s deal, we’ve got 15 mil locked up in 2 players with no guarantee the cap is going up. Not a safe bet until the economy stabilizes.

  48. Per Zip

    Erik Christensen apparently playing tomorrow; on line with Drury and Dubi; 1st and 3rd line same; five others in green jerseys

    Avery, Boyle, Kotalik, Brashear, Voror splitting time

  49. Hey, I am not saying I would want that, I was just throwing it out there.

    Tampa would be tied to those players, but for a much shorter period of time than they are already for Vinny’s contract.

  50. Why doesn’t Anisimov play with Dubi and Christensen and Drury play on the 3rd line? Makes sense to me…

  51. to say the brashear signing is 1 of the 10 wrost signings or move is laguhable.

    was it a terrbile signing? of course but the guy is getting $1.4 mill for 2 years.

    have you ever heard of the term proportionality??? redden is by far the worst signing in the last 10 years no other sigining is even close…………….

    redden has 4 more years on his deal at i think about $6 mill per yr.. brain surgeon how does that compare to brashear???????????

    my complaint with torts who i like is the juggling of the lines way way to much, and also he is not sitting down or sending down guys they deserve to sit….ie reddeen, higgins, etc……….

  52. Doodie Machetto on

    NYRGuy,

    Why would they do that when they can just send him to Hartford? I think eating 6.5 million is better than losing a first round pick

  53. 4Generations and only 4Cups on

    Trading Redden for our first would absolutely be a good idea. I understand we need to build in the draft, but if we need to sign the guys, with what money?

  54. Doodie, who knows, it’s Sather. But Burke said he would take a big contract if he got a young player or a good pick, so just a though.

  55. 4Generations and only 4Cups on

    Kaberle? Pavel, are you living in a warped reality or something? There was a package for him involving Kessel. Im sure 1 first and Redden amounts to the same PKG…lol..

  56. Id take that trade for Vinny. Why not ? Dump Dredden, dump Piggins, i don’t mind dumping Dubi. As for the picks, eh, Slats may have drafted two good picks in a row, so i think we should dump this first round pick cause Slats is due for another Jessiwoman.

    Vinny wouldn’t change the team though, we’d be a little better, but not enough to win the Cup.

    But id rather tank, and get a the 1st overall pick, but with the way the Oilers are playing, it wont happen, but ill gladly settle for a 2nd.

  57. Malhotra is a nice role player. He is playing on a elite team right now. Look at his numbers with Columbus. He was putting up 11 goals and between 25-35 points a year. He really is no better than someone like Chris Higgins.

  58. Hey guys, so I am traveling to Colorado this weekend and I am going to catch the game out there. I really hope that crossing state lines brings out a win. I have really good seats and would like to see what a win looks like up close. I am way under 500 at home! Wish me luck.
    Hey does anyone want to recommend a sign I bring in to put up on the glass? This may be a fun little excersise. Yous all crack me up so I am sure you will come up with Hi-larious stuff.

  59. Sad, but true, Carp. I’d take Prospal and, perhaps Avery over Malhotra on top of your list, but otherwise you’re right.

  60. 4Generations and only 4Cups on

    Duly noted, Pavel. Lol.

    We’re so bad. I’m just begging them to tank it, please just trade away some pieces so we can get some picks and have hope for next year or the year after. This has become so damn bad that I havent watched a single game in weeks. It’s not worth it to watch a losing club that doesnt care, at all.

    We all only have hope. Maybe we can come back next year with a first line centered by Anisimov because he’s our only real playmaker on the team. It would have been really nice if Alex Cherepanov didn’t f***ing die. That really took a sh*t in our forest.

  61. Toe-Wicky-Frenchchops (gabby, just get 26 more!!) on

    nyr
    we never seem to draft what the team really needs in the draft, especially early, so i would trade young guys or picks along with contracts to get this team going the right direction sooner!

  62. Horrible comparison and an even worse article…

    Why on earth would you want Manny Malhotra?!?

    Manny was a complete waste of a top-10 pick. He never should have been picked by any team in the first round and certainly does not belong on the NYR today. They guy barely hits 30 points a season and has NEVER scored more than 12 goals or 35 points in any season. Dime-a-dozen is the correct term for him.

    And then you compare him to Dubinsky and Callahan and write this, “But Manny’s as good as any of them right now.”

    See stats above. C’mon man, do some research. You’re supposed to be a journalist…

  63. Meliss, I went to the Rangers-Avs game in CO 2 years ago. Had 9th row by the face off circle. Rangers of course lost in OT, lol. That was the next game after Gabby scored 5 on us in Minny. Good luck!

  64. O would not give up a first to get rid of Wade. Draft picks are just too valuable in a hard capped league. We can always send him to Hartford or Buy him out, like Dolan did to Marbury and take the hit for a year.

  65. Toe-Wicky-Frenchchops (gabby, just get 26 more!!) on

    no to kaberle!!! we do NOT need another “positionally sound, puck moving, offencive” d man. Get exelby or komisarek back! I will gladly sacrifice some “positional soundness” for a couple of d men that will take themselves out of position to obliterate someone or that will take a minor penalty to bury someone in the crease! I mean we pay an “elite” goalie a ton of money to make saves and cover up for mistakes or blown coverages like that right? He is our best penalty killer right?? Right now we don’t have big hitters or crease clearers back there and we are still out of position a lot and not tough enough defencively, so who cares if a guy is out of position making a big hit or clearing the crease. I’ll take that any day over what we have and let our “elite” goalie earn his elite money! Bring on phanuef!!!!!

  66. maholtra is like about 1/2 our forwards. easy to perform well on san jose, malhotra is asked to do very little. malhotra’s are nice pieces on loaded teams, if you have not noticed; boyle, heatley, marleau, nabakaov, thornton, and blake are all elite. then they have guys right below that….
    malhotra, ortmeyer etc are 4th liners.

    the rangers elite players are; gaborik and lundqvist only..

    staal and mdz may be 1 day.. that is it. dubi and cally and AA may become good players…that is it….jessiwoman pick and the cherapanov death cripples a team whom needs to upgrade there talent base……….if cherapanov was alive the rangers would be much better, he was a premium talent and would allow all the guys to move down 1 slot………1st round draft busts really really hurt.

    btw sather has drafted very well the last few years…mdz, staal, and others……

  67. i saw phaneuf play last night, he can play. big, tough, big shot etc.

    redden,sanguinetti, higgins, 2nd round pick, and kotalik for phaneuf and another body.. phaneuf is 24, his contract is very reasonable especially compared to redden…

    i know this will never happen but i can dream……..

  68. Doodie Machetto on

    Hey guys, who remembers that the team signed Tyler Arnason?

    HAHA. Funny to remember the hidden blunders of Sather.

  69. Hey Boneheads, long time reader, first time commenter.

    I’m transplanted to the Bay Area and it’s been nice to watch ex-Rangers come out here. None of the Sharks fans could understand why I was so excited to see Graves out here, until game 1, public appearance 1, and charity day 1. Huge impact, as would be expected.

    Manny and Jed have been great Sharks, but neither are the same player they were in a Rangers sweater. The speed, size, and skill across the Sharks’ roster have given them the freedom to do what they do best – muck it up in the corners, stand in front of the net, and cause a ruckus when a ruckus needs causing (plus they have Jody Shelley, who is Brashear but slightly more talented and a better fighter). On top of that, Manny has a lot more experience now. I think both of them are more effective in teal than they would be in blue, at least given existing rosters.

  70. tyler arnason again is like the brashear sigining … bad but irrelevant….

    the blunders are right there; redden(way way to many yrs.), drury, gomez, and roszival.. the roszival signing was the best of all these signings, how do you like that…..

  71. BTW

    Dredden is so damn good in NHL10. Im playing with the Kings, and i traded for him, and Dubi..Dubi sucks, but Dredden is on fire.

    Wish he can play like that in real life.

    And i just realized, you cant trade your first round pick in NHL10. How stupid is that ? Im telling you, every game, they make all these stupid changes. So fake.

    And they still have yet to fix the trades. At the deadline, it seems playoff teams are replacing their whole team.

  72. There’s only one way out of this mess. Until Dolan agrees to fix Sather’s biggest mistake and bury Redden’s contract in Hartford (stop with the trades, no team is going to take him) the Rangers cannot compete past a playoff round or two, at best. With the $6.5 mil in hand, and other “easier” moves to be made, many many possibilities open up. Including Kovalchuk.

    Short of that, this is what you got for the forseeable future; a non-elite team hoping to stumble upon a miracle first round pick like Crosby, as Gabby’s and Hank’s prime years tick by.

  73. Doodie Machetto on

    stuart, Sather has been hit and miss in his drafts lately. Starting in 04, he blew pretty much every pick of his 13, including two first rounders, except Dubinsky (4th of 4 2nd round picks) and Callahan (4th round). In 05 he traded up for Staal, but the rest of that draft was a bust. In ’06 He took Sanguinetti first, a pick that was so bad that he took MDZ in ’08. The only player yet to show he’s a pro out of ’06 was Anisimov in the 2nd round. ’07 Had Cherepanov in the first, and a whole lot of nothing elsewhere. I’ll admit that I loved the Cherepanov pick, but in light of his heart problem, I can’t believe they didn’t have him tested medically beforehand.

    ’08 was a good draft. No complaints. And ’09 is too early to tell, but Kreider looked good this year at the World Juniors, something Montoya did not do when given a chance after being drafted.

    But I still don’t trust him at the draft table.

  74. I just reread some of the old posts following the joint Drury/Gomez signing. These were two of the best……Enjoy your afternoon.

    ORR Kicks Yin Yang: “NYR got it great today…WE GOT DRURY ANNNNDD GOMEZ….wooooo……….Im so happy right now…i can wizz my pants…Jeez its gonna be tough to choose between a Drury…Staal…or Girardi jersey”

    Soooo SALTY!: “BWAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHA!!!!! AMAZING! SAM I just saw this news but reading your updates it looks like you stayed on this like white on rice right down to the line…..awesome job. EVERYONE ELSE: wow wow wow wow wow wow !!!!! Today is awesome.”

  75. THE REAL MikeyNJ on

    Again with the line shuffling!!

    Is Torts retarded?

    How come we can come up with lines that should stay together and have OFFICIAL JOBS TO DO on the ice but Sully, Shoney and TOrts cant?

    And is it time for some more benchings besides Redden?

    Brashear is automatically sitting and should for EVER
    Drury and Higgins both deserve to be benched a game so decide which one it is.

    SOOOOO, you make the lines, and hell or high water, DO NOT CHANGE THEM FOR 5 GAMES!!!

    Whast the worse that coudl happen, we’d lose 4 more in a row?

    Prospal-Christensen-Gabby – period, keep them toegether
    Voros (he deserves a shot)-Dubi-Cally- I woudlnt mind this second line at all
    Avery-Artie-Lisin (this was a good line earlier in the year)
    Kotalik-Boyle-Drury or Higgins (whoever isnt benched is punished)

    This way Torts gets to keep his precious pansy ass captain in the line-up to block shots and do nothing where he should.

    OR I’d start callign up guys from Hartford ASAP.

    And how the hell did we not bring a 7th Dman on us with this trip?

    I can understand the lack of talent, cap issues, sather, etc. thats fine. But thsi line jugglign is jsut too renney-esque.

    But use what you DO have, tell each line uou have a roll, and tell them there goign to be together for a whiel so they better make it work

    Torts is retarded.

  76. “A really solid, dependable third-line NHLer for a long time.”

    You lost bets on him to who? Aside from a few people in the NYR upper management, pretty much everyone in the world thought this was exactly what Malhotra was going to be.

  77. Malhotra is NOT as good as the younger Rangers. I have watched him for years in Columbus, where he was often moved back to the 4th line because of poor play on a bad team. his numbers this season on the Sharks are mostly the result of playing on a strong team. if he was still in Columbus, he would still be putting up huge minus instead of pluses.don’t forget, he was available all summer to any team, and they mostly passed on him

    the Sharks took him and Ortmeyer because they needed to add grit. and those 2 guys do provide that. and I like both of them, for their leadership skills and gritty play.

    but when Jed was here fans whined that he had hands of stone, and he was decimated by a very serious injury. and Manny was not the first or second liner he was hyped to be.

    bottom line, I like both guys, but they are better suited to be small cogs in a top team, not important cogs in a mediocre team like the Rangers.

  78. Dear Lord, if the NY Rangers win on Saturday against the Coyotes I absolutely, positively, promise to never do anything bad again. Really Lord, I promise !

  79. too manny

    “Malhotra is NOT as good as the younger Rangers. I have watched him for years in Columbus, where he was often moved back to the 4th line because of poor play on a bad team. his numbers this season on the Sharks are mostly the result of playing on a strong team. if he was still in Columbus, he would still be putting up huge minus instead of pluses.don’t forget, he was available all summer to any team, and they mostly passed on him

    the Sharks took him and Ortmeyer because they needed to add grit. and those 2 guys do provide that. and I like both of them, for their leadership skills and gritty play.

    but when Jed was here fans whined that he had hands of stone, and he was decimated by a very serious injury. and Manny was not the first or second liner he was hyped to be.

    bottom line, I like both guys, but they are better suited to be small cogs in a top team, not important cogs in a mediocre team like the Rangers.”

    ——————–

    I agree with every thing you wrote. Muckler was right Manny is a dime a dozen player. He has never scored more than 12 goals and had more than 35 points. If you judge careers guys like Prospal, Avery, Higgins and Kotalik are all better.

    Manny is the type of player that you love on a great team playing a small role on the 3rd or 4th line. His seasons in Columbus were not very good.

  80. the signing of both players seemed like quite a steal at the time considering Drury come off of a very good year for Buffalo and Gomez showing speed and playmaking skills in jersey, and giving lots of folks the thought that if he was in a less defense-oriented system he could really blossom.

    i pretty sure that some, like the Hockey Rodent, were quite unhappy with the signing details of years/dollars in a cap world.

    i think what made it much worse was the signing of Redden and keeping Rozy at that price. there kept being talk of needing a power play QB and Rozy may have been one of the few choices so sather spent the $$ and did the same with Redden…

    my question about all this, is it that difficult to convince players to come here that they need a MAJOR financial incentive whereas some players will take the home team discount?
    also,
    is sather just lazy to negotiate and just want to get things done and out of the way so he drops a ton of $$ and years and NTC or some combination of these?

  81. Carp,
    Way to be a Negative Nancy during hard times. Malhotra is brutal, was and always will be. Lets talk up some positivity during this brutal stretch.

  82. THIS IS ALL THE MORE REASON TO TRADE ALL OF OUR 3RD/4TH LINERS IN A PACKAGE FOR A BONAFIDE STAR.

    A team comprised of 2 Stars, a handful of young talent and then a boatload of crap talent should look to move as much of that crap talent as possible and try and get a star back (Vinny Lecav).

    This teams NEEDS a 3 for 1 player trade because it:

    1: Cuts the crap from our team (and maybe a few draft picks, but what are you gonna do when you have so much crap talent you need to move??)

    2. Opens spots for more young players with cheap contracts to round out the roster

  83. I agree with somerset, although i would prefer Kovy. We have a lot of the same players on this team, were not going anywhere if it remains. I agree with starting from a home grown roster, but when you vegetables at your garden arent enough to feed your family, you have to go to the supermarket.

    ITS TIME. If anyone can do it, SATHER CAN. This, and only this I can say Sather is good for. Making unthinkable trades happen.

    Lets see what is in store for us.

  84. I think, and I know its going to be very hard for all of us, we need to pull for Sather for the next month. When and if he mucks up, then fire at will.

    We need him to do the right thing here, we need an elite player to build our franchise around, and his name is Kovy.

    (0% of our team consists of third and fourht liners on any other good team. You arent going anywhere in the NHL with a roster like this. Its time to make the Big blockbuster move. DO IT SATHER- DO IT!!!!!!!!!!

  85. they are not getting kovalchuk for 3rd line guys…dubinsky and callahan are 2nd line guys..

    they are not getting kovalchuk for; redden, kotalik, higgins, AA and 2 picks..

    kovalchuk is a FA at the end of the year and anyteam that pays a lot in players for a impending FA who will want to break the bank is insane……………………………………………………………………………..

  86. I hate to break the news to you stuart, but Cally and Duby are great guys, average players, but arent going to bring the cup to NY if they are the foundation of our forwards.

    Lets be realistic, we have waaaaaaaaaaay overated these two players as Rangers fans. i love them, and would like them to stay in a RW&B jersey, but if they can be packaged somehow and get us some real talent, i may be the minority, but i say pull the trigger before they change their mind.

    Take a step back and think about it. Its not that off.

  87. Atlanta could not build a team around Kovalchuk. they had him, Hossa, and Tkachuk several years ago, and the Rangers blew them out in a 4 game sweep that was an embarrassment on the Atlanta side.

    so, mr. no backcheck, no hustle is no savior to any team UNLESS they already have a top team or are on the way there. the current Rangers do not qualify in that description

    I suspect that he will go to LA for Frolov, Johnson, and a pick

  88. Stuart is right. Kovy is a FA at the end of the season. It doesn’t make sense to give up young talent (Cally, Dubi, Artem) plus picks (especially if there is still chance to bring Hall ;)).

  89. but atlanta isn’t gonna want 3rd/4th line talent for kovalchuk, ie Cally/Dubi probably doesn’t even get their foot in the door. You’d have to start with Staal/DZ, then a high end prospect like Grachev/maybe kreider, then a 1st round pick(s). All that for a rental player who probably wouldn’t even help us get past the 2nd round and we can’t afford to resign. No thanks. It might be a different story if he was under contract for a few years or you had a guaranteed window to negotiate a new contract, but neither is the case here

    maybe a new owner in tampa would take lesser talent b/c they rightly want to get out of that insane contract, but that very contract would cripple this team for a decade.

  90. stfraw and True Fans … have you been watching Avery this year?

    Kris, so you’re happy with this team as is? I still would take Manny over any of the guys I mentioned above.

    saget, I thought (and probably hoped — so that Muckler would be wrong, and because Manny’s such a good team guy) that he would be better. That’s why I lost bets.

    Chris, don’t tell me how to do my job. Have you watched Callahan and Dubinsky this year?

    Jay, but that’s what he is. Higgins is supposed to score 20-25 goals.

  91. I don’t want to hear any of you insulting bags of pucks. Bags of pucks are very useful and should be given every consideration when being traded. We might be receiving some at the trade deadline.

  92. The only thing with Atlanta is that it will be tough for them to get top dollar because there’s no guarantee that Kovalchuk will sign long term with the team he’s traded to.

    I don’t know if the CBA allows for trade and sign arrangements, given that I can’t recall one that’s happened since the lockout I’m going to guess that no, it doesn’t.

    Now Hossa isn’t quite the same league as Kovie, but he was definitely a top tier talent that was due to be a UFA in his particular year and ATL didn’t exactly get a haul like the Nordiques did with Lindros.

    Other teams dealing their impending UFA players to ATL doesn’t make sense for ATL because unless ATL shows those FAs the money then they could be stuck with letting Kovie go for nothing. In which case you’d wonder why they didn’t pony up the cash for Kovie in the first place.

    Take LA for example. They have a few modest UFAs coming off their books (Frolov, Randy Jones, Sean O’Donnell) and cap space to spare. They’re a good team with a good future. No reason to blow that all up now by trading some of the players they’ve smartly locked up when conceivably they could have Kovalchuk for just money in the summer.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if we’re all shocked by how little they end up getting for Kovie.

  93. Kovalchuk has constantly said he will test the UFA market if he doesn’t agree to an extension, so he’s a pure rental player.. and he will be the most expensive rental in HISTORY because very few teams can afford an $11m cap hit!

  94. NYRinPHX – if I don’t see you. I’ll stop by between 1 & 2 period.
    I’ll be wearing my Ranger blues with my Ranger beret hat. I got a moustache & I’m old – LOL
    LGR !!!!

  95. Doodie – about Cherepanov, they did have him checked. He cleared his physical with flying colors. The heart issue was caused by blood doping, which wasn’t going to show up on the physical. They had no idea that was going to happen to him until it was too late.

  96. JJP!

    That is great, can you post the original link? How do you dig so deep into the archives?

    I’ll never deny, I was psyched as hell when we signed Gomez/Drury… I loved Gomez and wanted him to center Jagr…but I FEARED we would go after Drury because there were so many heavy rumors swirling “Rangerfan Drury”. When we got both it DID feel like Christmas. The sky was the limit.

    I had high hopes for both of them. At one point I even said this:

    “Do you realize its possible that both Scott Gomez and Chris Drury could go into the HOF as Rangers?”

    I STILL think Gomez should be here with Gaborik.

  97. Pavel – he also said he doesn’t want to play in a big market. That’s why I keep saying the Rangers won’t sign him even if we had the room.

  98. duby and cally are 2nd line players but heck why be patient it is not the ranger whining fan way.

    i have not misread there talent the ya re good well rounded players who will improve. again 2nd line forwards……..

  99. Salty – I hated the fact that we spent so much money for both of them, but didn’t mind them as long as they weren’t the centerpieces. Then we let Jagr go and handed them the team and it was terrible. Wish we traded Drury instead of Gomez as well because at least Gomez you know will put up a decent amount of points and does something well (skate and set up guys).

  100. yea it is the rangers fault a 20 yr old died of a massive heart attack!!!!!!!!!!!

    yea sure the rangers invest a lot of time and money in a guy but do not give him a comprehensive physical…………

  101. Stuart – Cally is a 3rd liner IMO. He gets goals because he plays 1st and 2nd line minutes and crashes the net. He can’t stickhandle worth crap though and has no shot. All he does well is skate hard and crash the net. He’s a 3rd liner.

    Dubi actually has skills, and while not of the 1st line variety, he could center a 2nd line and put up some numbers.

  102. Ok Tony. I saw your pic on your website. Wife and I will be having “pregame warm-ups” at one of the places outside the arena. Probably McFaddens or Yardhouse.

  103. Good, let Kovie get $11MM a year and totally handcuff his future team from building a contender. Or he could go the mega length contract route, still get his money and allow them to acquire other players.

  104. Cally has plenty of skills besides being the best hustler and worker and best determination on the team. he puts nice dekes on the goalie when he has a breakaway and very often scores.he is a very good second line player for sure IF he has a decent center. but he is most often saddled with Dreary, and NOBODY should be judged by having to play with that garbage at C.

  105. wow, reading through those comments from the Drury/Gomez signing link above made me think two things:

    1) Most people were right on board, though those who weren’t hit it right on the head.

    2) we have had a lot of turnover in the Bonehead comments section.

  106. Carp – I’m watching Avery closely. Agree – he’s not the same force as he’s been with Jagr but you know – Jagr is Jagr – he pumped points for everyone. Anyway – I don’t understand why would anyone want somebody like Malhotra back. Let’s leave Avery but Manny over $1M Prospal or Boyle? Sorry but no way.

  107. Carp, i’ll admit it, i was pretty excited that both Gomez and Drury were signed, it was like an early bday present from Uncle Glennie, that in time, I wanted to regift. I had always liked Gomez when he was on the devs, and drury had ‘the rep’. It didnt take long to realize, wow,these guys are getting alot of money and aren’t really lighting the NY stage on fire. So yes, the bloom wore off those roses quickly.

  108. Every day we talk about how the rangers could get rid of Higgins,Redden,Rozsival,Brashear,Drury,Kotalik but guess what we all no are GM is and he thinks every signing he makes is golden and he never ever will say it was a bad signing so basically he’ll never trade them

    Basically what im trying to say lets just wait % years until all these contracts are done and then maybe we can talk about being a good team because these guys are never gonna get traded

    ;(

  109. Everyone knew $7M per year was overpaying for both Gomez and Drury, but it was understood, that’s where the market stood, and it was a shallow UFA year… but I really dont think anyone could have predicted how poorly they would both perform. Add Redden to the equation and you have a clusterfck of epic proportions.

    Truthfully Rozsival is the only contract that doesn’t drive me insane for some reason. We definitely paid big for the “devil we know”, but he was one of the last Rangers from before the lock out. Although he has never been a star player, he played very well before he got hurt and we had faith he’d return to form. It was a case of NYR holding onto a hometown player rather than signing another “name”… Rozsi hasn’t even come close to living up to the contract either, but it still strikes me as a case of the Rangers trying to do the right thing.

  110. I was totall on board for the Gomez/Drury signing. Thought it was too much money but I also thought it put us over the hump and we were Cup bound. Whether we won it…who’s to say but I definitely thought we were going to make it, which we almost did…Avery getting hurt against the Pens really killed the teams momentum

  111. I’m sorry but this notion that Gomez performed poorly is ridiculous. He performed just as Gomez performs every single season, the problem was everyone was expecting his numbers to be similar to his career numbers, it’s like expecting Jeter to hit .340+ every season and when he hits .315 saying he performed poorly. You got what you paid for, problem is you paid too much. True of Drury as well…guy only had one really good season. Gomer was a 60-70 point guy his whole career, Drury was a 40-50 point guy with 20-25 goals per year. All of a sudden everyone wanted them to have career years every year or they were a bust

  112. This is more of a joke then it is for real but just wondering this.

    If you could get rid of Redden,Rozsival,Higgins,Kotalik,Drury, and Brashear but you have to get rid of marian gaborik and henrik lundqvist would u do it?

    I would we could start out with a new clean slate and wouldnt make the same mistakes

  113. Drury clearly has underperformed, even for his career averages. Guy has officially ascertained bum status. Rozi…we all knew that was a mistake. If we took a show of hands it would be much faster to count those who liked the signing than those who disliked it

  114. I would trade Gaborik for the right player. He’s not big enough to build a team around. He doesn’t have the moves, or the size to carry a team. He is one of the best co-superstars you could ask for…but you need someone like a Malkin/Ovechkin/LeCavalier, etc. Someone with some size and some moves, not just an amazing shot. We could really accelerate the rebuilding of this team by trading him. trading Lundqvist would be insane though. You don’t trade your franchise goaltender

  115. J money

    here is another joke for you…

    if you had a really bad liver and someone told you that you could have a new one, with one condition though… they’d have to cut your cojones off…would you do it? :P

  116. Haha, i will not lie for a sec, i was so excited aboot signing Blowmez, and Dreary. I really thought they would complete this team.

    Instead they actually made me not want to watch Rangers hockey, who knew that would possibly happen.

    Still miss that 06-07 Rangers squad. Best team in a looong time.

    I still think we could have won the Cup that year.

  117. Thanks Linda.

    “Thought it was too much money but I also thought it put us over the hump and we were Cup bound”

    Absolutely. Jagr/Shanny/Drury/Gomez/Ludqvist…BRING IT.

    John Doe

    Agree to SOME extent… Gomez needed an Elite(ish) (and North-South style) wing to feed… so I give him a slight pass in that case. But it was PAINFULLY EVIDENT that his “NJD program” work ethic DROPPED in his 2nd season. Smiling and joking after losses? Unacceptable.

    Drury has always sucked as a Ranger though. His LOW numbers are GENEROUS… I have been suspicious of him since he was “co-captain” with that chode Briere in Buffalo, and have watched him like a hawk in NY. He has been invisible and people have been creating excuses for him since day 1 and CONTINUE to do so. He is a hoax and a hack hockey player. The guy can barely fcking skate. He has those ~20 goals per season because he’s been given the benefit of the doubt and given PRIME ICETIME while kids have suffered. If people want to play the archives “game”… go ahead and play it… see if you can find the posts about why we should get Gomez instead of Drury because of how weakly CLUTCH rallied his troops in Buffalo’s playoff run (President’s Trophy, Isles battled them, we almost beat them, OTT embarrassed them, enough said)

    you’ll also find some of us pointing out how awful and invisible Drury actually was since probably about November 07. Clutch Dump-ins galore, Not to mention MANY botched breakaways featuring slapshots into the tummy from the top of the circle…thats when I knew we signed a lemon… meanwhile all of NY is ready to hand this guy the C because of stuff he did before he was 19.

  118. Doodie-The 07 draft isn’t completely lost. Remember the name CARL HAGELIN.Potential Hobey Baker nominee. He’s gonna be that shutdown John Madden type for the Rangers who can pot 20 goals.

    Muckler’s quote about Manny was “he’ll never be any more than a checking line center.” Real classy.

    Muckler’s biggest crime was sending Stefan Cherneski to the minors (former first rounder remember him?) to give journeyman Tim Sweeney a roster spot. Poor Stefan completely shattered his knee in a freak accident and that was his career.

    And once again people, not to defend Sather, but Gordie Clarke took over drafting in 06. Maloney is responsible for all the previous drafts.

  119. salty, i agree on the gomez/drury stuff, but roszival is not a hometown player. he started with the pens and they wanted nothing to do with him after the lockout and we signed him in ’05. He had outperformed his first year here with jagr, but then got worse each year (as he deferred way too much to jagr, stopped shooting on the pp, defensive coverage decline and the stupid giveaways increased) up until he got hurt.

    resigning him coming of hip surgery for that much money and for that long was incredibly dumb and another case of sather negotiating against himself. should have walked away

  120. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    My first comment after the Drury/Gomez signing and Nylander departure…

    _ True Fans bleed RW&B
    July 2nd, 2007 at 2:50 pm
    Will the Rangers really miss Nylander though? Yes, he was unbelievable in shootouts. Yes, he is one of the most patient, well-visioned on the puck, and gifted players in the NHL. But truth be told he wasn’t always the most motivated player. He was sat twice this season for being lazy in the defensive zone. He failed to shoot the puck when in prime scoring position, probably a confidence issue. And he couldn’t kill penalties.

    This in comparison to two guys who will make about $18million for a combined scoring of 129 points last season. I’m not so sure the salaries are worth it. Gomez IS MOST CERTAINLY NOT worth $10million (his salary the first year). And I’m not sure why he got the longer contract for more money while Drury (even though he’s 30 years old) got the 5-year deal.

    I’d rather have let Gomez go and sign a good center for $5million – there are a number of them available (even Nylander), sign them for 3 years and then go after Sheldon Souray to fill in the last D-spot or to replace Marek Malik.

  121. This link proves my point that Sather isnt an idiot for issuing large contracts to free agents, its just that coupled with the “Lore of the Big Apple” most free agents choose to come here when there is a bidding war involved

    COLUMBUS WENT JUST AS HARD AS SATHER DID TO SIGN REDDEN, then after Sather won the bidding war, traded Columbus their leftover D-men

    I’m sure this happened in the Drury/Gomez year as well

    http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2009/08/04/arace_8-4.ART_ART_08-04-09_C1_OBELUE8.html

  122. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    CCCP,
    You can google certain words or headlines and also include within the search rangers.lohudblogs OR “rangers report” and it will give a list of all related topics from Rangers Report.

  123. Nylander wasn’t a star but he served a purpose and like The Rock would say, knew his role. He had a clear cut role and job description with the club and was great at it.

    How many free agents have ever worked out for the Rangers? Hedberg, Nilson, LaRouche, Graves, the 05-06 guys. That’s it.

  124. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    *Carp,*
    Has Malhotra ever won a video game for anyone, ever, let alone a Stanley Cup entire round single-handedly (Avery vs. Atlanta) and another with the support of Jagr (Avery vs. Brodeur)?

    Avery’s not having a great year… does it mean his career is worthless? Based on what this guy has done in 3 previous years, its not. This team *Does not make the playoffs* without Sean Avery the last 3 years! There, i said it.

  125. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    MikeA,
    Nylander wanted too much money, he was also such a detriment defensively that without his magic with Jagr, he’s basically worthless to any team. The caps either releived him (and are paying him) or bought him out… for a lot of money. I think my post in 2007 says it all and it was right about each one of those players (I wish I would have bashed Drury, but I didn’t).

  126. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    My first Sean Avery post (everyone basically bashed the trade):

    True Fans bleed RW&B
    February 6th, 2007 at 6:33 pm
    I can’t wait to see what Avery does tonight. Its the whole “hate to play him, but wish we had him” mentality and I hope he’s a spark plug for the team and not just and explosive.

    I’ll tell you this, if he mouths off enough to get Renney can’d or if he runs Gomez, Marshall, and Jansen through the boards tonight he’ll be my favorite player.

    Another boomshakalaka!

  127. This one is even more amusing Salty, given your comments above. You’ve flip-flopped like a politician.

    Right after the Redden signing:

    Salty – “Few points quick: -Whoever said “slats at his finest”, nailed it. – If Wade can serve as the VETERAN DMAN which is necessary for the matriculation of Staal… so be it. We needed a Vet Dman for that reason alone, I just hope he doesn’t implode in NY. -Agreed, we will without a doubt be seeing those big shots from the point that we have all been dreaming about for years. I’m okay with this, for now…. the real mistake is Rzival…shoulda let someone else take that bait off our hands and looked for a trade mid seaz.”

  128. wow, we really need a game if we’re going back to find posts from two years ago!! at the time, people think certain signings are a good idea, until you see the guy play on your team every night. ;-) Sometimes it just doesnt work out. we all go back and forth on things we’ve said, hell, we sometimes contradict ourselves in the same post! ;-)

  129. This is a terrific post because it bring forth the real problem if you read it for what it is. This team doesn’t and hasn’t had a legit #2 scoring line. Infact, the threat of Gaborik is all that keeps their first line a ‘first line’.

    And I’m sorry that I don’t get a chance to post here as much as the core group of you but believe me, I read every day and I agree with a lot of you. I think the only way this team moves on is to demote or trade off the high price albatross-like players. But let’s just be in agreement about this much- even if we shed some of these nightmare players, we aren’t a player away from contention. At best we’re like a line and a defensive pairing away from contention.

    The wrong turn they took was the decision to sign Gomez AND Drury. Had they signed one and kept their first line in tact that year they would have been fine, atleast temporarily. Nylander was exactly what they seem to want around here. A center who isn’t a first liner that could play up to the potential of one because of his star winger. Meanwhile they could have stuck Gomez in the #2 spot and built around him with the right kind of players. (Shanahan at that point and perhaps Gionta or Cammalleri present day). But it’s useless to talk about because they let Nylander walk, they said goodbye to Jagr, and they traded the more useful of two grossly overpaid centers (and I’m a Drury fan saying that on record)

    But that’s just the tip of the iceberg. I don’t have enough time (or motivation) to keep writing about this team and the same problems they’ve seem to have failed to address for the better part of 16 years now.

    oh, one last thing before I go. BYFUGLIEN! (couldn’t resist getting my first one in for the year)

  130. Can you post these links? I want to read these old threads

    Still contend, Roszival at this point does not bother me nearly as much as Redden or Drury. I don’t think Roszy was ever built up to be anything special. No one ever expected THAT much from him. That can’t be said for the other two, OR Gomez. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a fan of his, but the idea of him and how he’s handcuffing the team while sucking doesn’t boil me up nearly as much. Roszival also has plenty to lose compared to the other 2, and I don’t think he’s as arrogant as they.

    It was no secret the Rangers were looking for a hard hitting/defensive Dman… The Rangers obviously ignored that need in signing Wade, but big thing about Redden for me was that he was supposed to be an offensive guy and he was supposed to be the VET who took Staal under his wing and brought our kid up… when Redden showed he couldn’t put up numbers, we expected him at at least play sound defense, when he couldn’t even do that…game over.

    Roszival has played better for his $5M compared to his track record than Redden has played for his $6.5M compared to his… that’s my point. In general I will give signees the benefit of the doubt, and I have high hopes for everyone the Rangers sign…I learned this after despising Jagr upon getting him that everyone deserves a clean slate in a new sweater (even Donald Brashear), but that glow quickly fades.

    More quotes, and post the threads

  131. Chara, Pronger, Boyle, Campbell, Souray, Rafalski, Hannan, Stuart, Gill, Foote, McCabe. That’s just a quick list off the top of my head of Dmen that were either UFA or that we probably could have traded for since 2006 that would have commanded the same money if not a little less then the likes of Redden and Roszival. And I think most would agree that whether they went the offensive route or the hard hitting in your face defensive type, they would have been much better off then they are now. I’d take any 2 of those names over the guys we have. Or for that matter Drury.

  132. I’ve been watching the wolfpack game. Poor Vally was pulled about half way through the first. He let a couple of soft ones in.

  133. James (G) thank you. That’s the whole point. That we can even debate Malhotra over anybody other than Gaborik indicts the entire roster. That this third-line player is as good or better or a lot better than so many players on this roster says it all. There is one first-line player on the Rangers, and one borderline (albeit still young) first-pair defenseman.

    That is the problem. Nothing else matters, the coach, the leadership, the system, the heart, the chemistry.

    NYRGuy, the words I used before the free agency period that year was that the Rangers would sign B-list free agents like Chris Drury or Scott Gomez for A-list money.

  134. For those asking about blog archives from a couple of years ago:
    – Click on archives link on the right side of the page
    – Once that page loads go to the end of the URL and it should look like YYYY/MM, you can manipulate the year and month accordingly

  135. Hmm.. I’m thinking about hosting a chatroom on my site for games.. would any of you be down? It’d be uncensored, of course.

  136. Carp,

    I agree with you about the talent level on the team. I said basically the same thing before the season, that they were stocked with mediocre talent.

    You can change coaches all you want, but you can’t make chicken salad out of chicken poop.

    As for heart, I have no doubt that the players are out there giving their all. It’s just that “their all” looks like they’re going at about three-quarter speed because the other team is so much better.

    There’s no system in the world that’s going to take a bunch of third liners and make Cup contenders out of them. No system is going to make Kotalik magically shoot on goal or Higgins actually score or Christensen look like he belongs in the NHL.

    So, my guess as to what they’ll do is they’ll trade four or five young players for Kovalchuk or Lecavlier and act like they did something wonderful.

  137. Carp,
    Great post. A point I tried to make earlier was that it is easy to sign a Gaborik. A good GM has to find balance by signing VALUE contracts. Malhotra is a serious value. Case closed.

    Disturbing quote of the day:

    “He has his view and I told him mine, and we’ve turned the page,” said Redden.

    Who the f*** cares what your view is, Wade? You shouldn’t be telling anyone anything. You should be listening. Listening to the the fans, and listening to your coach. You are a player in decline. You should be apologizing to Sather for signing that deal that you have no intentions of living up to. If you want people to respect your views, Wade, take a long look in the mirror and decide if you are even up to the task of competing in the NHL. We all see the real Wade Redden. It’s time for you to look in the mirror and see for yourself.

    Then we may respect your views. . . .

  138. Under the sather regime the rangers drafting has been brutal. I’m tired of stating the fact that Sather is the worst GM in the nhl. The rangers will suck until this clown is gone. I don’t care who runs the rangers it will be better than anything Sather has done as the gm of the rangers.

  139. That 2007-2008 Rangers team was the best Rangers team we have seen or will see in a while.

    We should have AT LEAST taken the Penguins 7 games that year, save for Nylander’s no-goal in Game 2 and Hollweg’s boner after Jagr brought the Rangers back in Game 3.

  140. Carp, I agree. If this team had balanced scoring or the ability to score in general things would be completely different. But I have to ask this too-

    Do you have any opinions on why this organization refuses to go after the likes of a hard hitting Dman? Is it Sather’s influence? I thought it had to do with Renney and his quest for a ‘puck moving Dman’ but Tortarella seemed to pay LESS attention to the D this past off season then Renney ever did. Ever since we dealt York for Poti it seems like there’s been a quest for the offensive Dman and they haven’t gotten it right from that point on.

  141. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Noah,
    Don’t forget that Rozsival had 3 minors that game 6 too… that literally was the beginning of his demise.

  142. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    I wish the Captain would stop in soon to update us on the “Best 4th line centers in the league” stats he keeps!

  143. ZzZz NYR ZzZz " Gaborik has Rangernitise!!! " … says Greg L. on

    Blaming Sather for Drury and Gomez is complete nonsense. At the time as we all saw , we loved the move and it was economecly the right thing to do. Why blame Sather for Drury and Gomez playing like ‘tards? Ive said all along ,Sather is perfect for NY and he always gets his man.
    We beat out teams every year for high quality player..just so , when they come here to NY they sit like fat cats and forget how to play. Sather is not to blame here and it isn’t the “Ice” either nor our talent (hem hem Carp)

    ..reason we are where we are is because our team is YOUNG with UPS AND DOWNS. Dont bail our on our team cuz we aint where we want to be..we are growing. Too bad Hank and Gaborik suffer thorough this…Our team is really really young .Who knows if we make the playoffs with this mix of vets and rookies… we have NEVER TREAD WATER THIS DEEP with rookies before. EVER. This roller coaster ride is all we got untill the vets step it up and the rookies play like vets. Sounds hard?

  144. why do people bring up stuff that other posters have said years ago? im not tryin to start fights here but u need a new hobby if u have to spend your time wading thru years old threads looking for something salty said about redden. who cares?? at the time, alot of people thought he could have a resurgence and a change of scenery couldve been good for him. everybody can be wrong about staal or dz. in 2 years staal could be the next redden.

  145. ZzZz NYR ZzZz " Gaborik has Rangernitise!!! " … says Greg L. on

    Orr , don’t be jelous of the devils …feel sorry for them . Scott Stevens is the biggest piece of crap to ever hoist the Stanley Cup. He worked in the “devils system” and flourished in it’s BORING,TRAPPING,DULL, system and having Broduer makes it all work. We got HOLIK ( garbage) Gomez ( crappola) Mala-kov-it-up the russian goon and rest of the human garbage from that Mickey Mouse organization. Driver was good . Devils have Zerp fans . Who cares if NJ Devils win the cup..BUT if NYR win the cup…ALL HELLS BREAK’N LOOSE!! Orr , stay on the good side , dont goto the dark side …Orr …I am yer Father!!!

  146. ZzZz NYR ZzZz " Gaborik has Rangernitise!!! " … says Greg L. on

    Just peashhhy Mike…thanks. Malhotra sucks Rick , glad we got rid of him . He ‘d have never made it in NY . Never.

  147. James, I just don’t think it’s easy to find one who’s very good. I know they wanted to make room for Del Zotto and Gilroy this year, and they were stuck with Redden and Rozsival, and they thought highly of Staal and Girardi.

    So given that there weren’t a lot of spots open, that they didn’t have any cap room, that they didn’t have a lot to trade, and that physical defensemen who can actually play are pretty rare … well, no wonder they don’t have one. That doesn’t mean they don’t need one, and it doesn’t mean they wouldn’t love to have one.

  148. ZzZz NYR ZzZz " Gaborik has Rangernitise!!! " … says Greg L. on

    Rick ,
    Takes days to read all the posts to catch up sometimes. After im done reading , I fall asleep ..wake up and do it all over again. Sometime ya can’t post back because someone ALWAYS interupts and the blog has to wait. Reading the blog is a full time job. If ya don’t read it , ya miss out and then ya look like an idiot when ya ask somethhing that already been said. CCCP was stalking my dreams awhile back and my …( bear with me on this one) Psyciatrist said to me to stop reading his post while I am half asleep cuz thats when he pulls me in.

  149. ZzZz NYR ZzZz " Just win baby!!! " … says Greg L. on

    Ok , I was a tad harsh on Manny . I remember the day he was drafted and i was pritty happy. He played with Gretzky a bit and did have high expectations. We didn’t draft him to be a 3rd liner or what ever. We paid a high pick on him and we needed a top guy. He was a bust , like Lundmark,jessewoman and Brendl. We needed 1st line guys Rick ,No one draft in the first round to find a “good” 3rd liner? Do they?

  150. no, they don’t. But often if you get a guy who will play on your team for 10-12 years, even if a third-liner, you’re pretty happy. Better than going for a Brendl or a Lundmark or a Dube or a Jessiman and getting nothing.

    Loads and loads of later picks end up being first-line players. Look where Messier was drafted.

  151. I understand what you’re saying Carp. I was thinking about the years prior to this past off season. I posted something earlier tonight about how Chara,Pronger,Campbell, Souray and a few others have all been available over the last 4 years either by free agency or trade and they passed them up, brought in the likes of Redden, at one point Aaron Ward, and extended Rozsival (a C list player) with A list money. Now granted they’ve had cap issues and they’ve had little to trade at certain points but it’s just one of those things. It’s almost like none of their gambles pay off (other then Gaborik of course)

  152. Theory: NY Rangers are the all-time NHL mediocre team. You get more Cup wins out of being up and down. ’94 was the exception.

    If you look at all the teams that have one Stanley Cups since the 80s … most of the teams were bad for a long time before becoming legit contenders.

    Penguins are probably the most extreme case. You have Cups going to expansion teams and teams that moved — all had terrible seasons shortly before turning things around. Red Wings and Devils deserve a lot of credit for being able to maintain a winning form over a long period of time, but those teams were terrible for years prior to winning anything.

    And the 80s were dominated by Islander (expansion) and Oiler (weak in WHA) dynasties.

    The Canadiens managed one Cup since their run in the 70s but their long-term success is un-matched.

    http://www.hockeyforum.com/hockey-history/32385-nhl-all-time-standings.html

    Question: Is there another Messier out there for the Ranges to acquire? Or maybe more importantly is there a Leetch, Richter (check there maybe with Lundqvist) and Graves in the organization?

    A lot has to go right to win a championship. I think it helps if you can draft a Crosby, Malkin or both once in a while on the way.

  153. ZzZz NYR ZzZz " Just win baby!!! " … says Greg L. on

    Yeah Rick , Messier was a low pick but it was because he was really a nobody untill Glen scooped him up. He was so spoiled and crazy back in his “early years” Glen had to punish Messier alot for being late and such behavior. Wayne Gretzky HAD to practiced everyday with Messier and Kurri,Anderson and Paul Coffey. Gretzky was a work aholic and Messier learned alot from him and so did the other guys. Skill wise Gretky made everyone better and by the time Gretzky left Edmonton..Messier was a fierce skilled competitor ala Gretsky and Sather. Watching Semenko pound guys every night also influenced Messier.

    Any player can be molded into the next great player but it takes Coaches,other players to make this happen. If we “pushed ” our past draft failures to be better and promoted them like we do Dubinsky and Callahan then maybe we wouldn’t have been so unlucky all those years. Drafting a gem like Cherapanov and having him die is un explainable. Having Jesseman fail as the only one in that round..is un heard of. Who is seriously taking care of these kids? Guys like Blackburn ( really unlucky injury)and having Pavel Brendl be a complete bust is astonishing. This franchise has been through alot. Our time has come.

  154. Actually probably best if I don’t finish where I was going with that…might get in trouble, like saying bomb at the airport…

  155. “Any player can be molded into the next great player but it takes Coaches,other players to make this happen.”

    So….I kinda have to take issue with this statement.

    It’s kinda like saying we’re all born equal, which is crap. We’re all born with equal rights, we all know that no combination of scholars, geniuses and Wheaties for breakfast are going to make any of us the next Einstein. Then again…Johnny Damon did somehow make it to an MLB outfield…didn’t his coaches watch him throw as he was growing up? How did that work out?

  156. scholars, geniuses and Einstein, and then in the very next sentence Johnny Damon?

    Wow.

    Good night, all.

    Good night, Sally!

  157. Toe-Wicky-Frenchchops (gabby, just get 26 more!!) on

    I hate the rozy contract the most by far and it made the absolute least sense of any of slatipuss’ signings!

  158. ZzZz NYR ZzZz " Just win baby!!! " … says Greg L. on

    John doe ,

    I said any player can be molded into the next GREAT PLAYER , or in yer terms a person can be molded into the next Einstein , yes. Yes it can be done. Sidney Crosby was molded into the player he is now and if he didn’t have all the help he had ,he’d never have won the cup. Any player drafted in the NHL can become a star. Coddled high draft pick can become spoiled and lazy ,when a low draft guy with the right help could be a gem. Hard working and skill is in every drafted player , Messier is a prime example and Hank.

  159. ZzZz NYR ZzZz " Just win baby!!! " … says Greg L. on

    Ive been away Wicky but have read what I missed so im all caught up!!! Last loss really hurt . I was crying for days , too sad to come on da blog.

  160. don't be so sure on

    definitely not campbell or souray. some other depend on length and dollars as to are they worth it

    James (G)
    January 29th, 2010 at 7:36 pm
    Chara, Pronger, Boyle, Campbell, Souray, Rafalski, Hannan, Stuart, Gill, Foote, McCabe. That’s just a quick list off the top of my head of Dmen that were either UFA or that we probably could have traded for since 2006 that would have commanded the same money if not a little less then the likes of Redden and Roszival. And I think most would agree that whether they went the offensive route or the hard hitting in your face defensive type, they would have been much better off then they are now. I’d take any 2 of those names over the guys we have. Or for that matter Drury.

  161. Not sure if this has been mentioned already or not, because I didn’t feel like actually reading through 200+ posts (can people cut down on the useless, “I just want to say something”, type posts??), but Carp how do you throw Avery into that fourth group? He’s miles better any guy you put in that group, as well as Malhotra. Polarizing personality aside he’s one of our best players, sadly, and surely better than Malhotra.

    But the main point is true… we have no talent!! Whether the team gives effort or not is a legit point. But this team with effort is the 6th place Renney-led rangers from a couple years ago. We still suck

  162. Yo Chris…i am happy for you and I’ma let you finish… but those “I just wanna say something” posts are the best useless posts of all time! OF ALL TIME!

  163. pretty cool find Ricky…it was fun to read it…

    so Ricky, what kind of fan are you? “Puck Bunny” or “Jersey Foul Guy”? Probably the latter… i bet you got jersey that says “Marty 4EVER” across the chest! lol

  164. paul g in sunrise on

    at risk for being carp’d

    IF rangers could sign Kovulchuk to an extension, would anyone say no to a Dubi/Cally/Sangs/Rozi deal?

    IF Kovy signs a 5-7 year extension is he not better than all four. Does his production not equal or exceed Dubi/Cally combined?

    Anyone here wish Rangers pulled trigger on Heatley deal? Besides me?

    This league requires two offensive stars (or more). Look at San Jose three stars; Washington three stars, Pitt two to three stars, Chicago at least two stars, Detroit (yes they are bad this year but…) two stars. Rangers and the rest of the league without cup hope one or less stars (Gaborik). I am not saying Kovy makes the team an immediate threat, but with Kovy and Gabby in the line-up for 5-7 years this team has the offensive abilities to hang with the elite. Each player can obviously make their own shot and score regardless who is centering. Kovy played with waiver wire fodder and Gabby scored with Christiansen.

    IF Kovy is willing to sign a long term deal, the Rangers SHOULD be interested. IF a rental than obviously pass.

    I like Dubi and Cally like everyone else, but they are nice 20/20/40 players which is equal to solid thirds and marginal second liners. Stepan showed me something as I watched all tourney the games. Anisimove will improve and if the deal allows Rangers to keep Grachev, then I would do it. Dubi/Cally are 24 and what you see is what you get.

    Just my thoughts.

    I am sure I posted about Drury and Gomez too. Not sure if I want to read it – might make me hurl.

  165. Carp I was just ok with Manny still am nothing more, but what is with these guys liking Higgins and Boyle better? Only purpose Higgins serves is to fill space and getting rid of Gomers unbelievable contract. As far as the market will bear commets on Drury and Gomez are you kidding me? Sometimes we don’t need to be the highest bidder for 2nd line players with big numbers and big years in the contract. 4million for 4 years should have been max, and the way they played it should have been 2mil max. Reeden & Rosi Sather just bid against himself and screwed us for years to come.

  166. Paul G your deal for Kovy as long as we get the extenstion isn’t all that bad. I would like to see Redden go rather than Rosi, worse contract. If we could save either Cally or Dubi and send a pick it would be better. I don’t trust our drafts for good reason.

  167. come on, Carp. your love for Malhotra is way out of proportion. I have watched him in Columbus and in SJ

    he is nothing more than a solid 3rd line grit guy on a STRONG TEAM. that masks his real ability. he is nowhere near as good as Dubi or Cally or AA.

    he was so bad in columbus that he was a 4TH liner on a poor team and they let him go

    and ANYBODY looks better on a Sharks team loaded with talent. when your teammates have the puck all the time, it is harder to make mistakes

    no, Muckler was right about his talent level, and you are right about him being a quality person and good teammate. but talent wise, he is strictly a bottom six player unless he is given a Joe thornton to mask his shortcomings

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