Off-day conversation


So it’s another off-day. Byfuglien! This is horrible waiting for games.

So I thought I’d start off with a couple of little conversations readers brought up yesterday, which probably deserve to be discussed a bit more:

1) The worst and best Rangers trades of the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s and 2000s.

2) Since Cam Neely retired (or, if you prefer, all-time) the best power forwards in the game.

Chime in if you like. Or, as always, discuss whatever you want to discuss.


Here’s a Canadiens By The Numbers from, to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the Habs, the Yankees of hockey.


I just wanted to tell y’all that our traffic numbers the past three or four days have been pretty good. We had an awful November compared to last November, and I wrote that off for two reasons: The Yankees took up the first week of the month in the World Series, and those two long gaps in games, including the stretch of 3 in 13 days. But obviously, some of it is because we don’t cover the Rangers on a daily basis the way we did when Sam was here (I spoke with him yesterday, by the way, and he says Hi!).

Anyway, to start December we’re climbing back up, and that’s good because we need numbers for the suits here to allow me to spend some of my work week doing this. So come early, come often, and as Babu said, “Tell your friends.” Seriously, if you know people who follow the Rangers and aren’t regulars here, tell them to come here. How’s that for a shameless recruiting message?

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  1. Repost, re: power forwards

    Kevin Stevens, pre-smashing his face against the Isles. Tocchet was a decent power forward in his day too. Old man Gary Roberts and not as prolific a scorer but Shayne Corson was very gritty.

    Also let’s not forget the player appointed best leader in the game, Jarome Iginla.


    Time of Hurtfulness__ am/pm

    A. Which ear were words of hurtfulness spoken into? Left Right or Both
    B. Is there permanent feeling damage? Yes No
    C. Did you need a tissue for the tears? Yes No
    D. Was Real Man who hurt your feelings a team mate? Yes No
    E. Were you Shoulder Checked to hard into the boards? Yes No
    F. Did that mean Goalie stop ALL your attempts to score? Yes No
    G. Do the Ref’s Make things up to punish you? Yes No

    Reasons for filing this report. Please Circle Yes or NO

    1. I am thin skinned. Yes
    2. I am a wussy. Yes
    3. I have woman like hormones Yes
    4. I like to whine Yes
    5. I am a little Bit** Yes
    6. I am a cry baby Yes
    7. I want my mommy Yes
    8. All of the above Yes circle this one since all most likely apply

    Name of REAL MAN who hurt your sensitive little feelings____

    If you feel you need someone to hug, go home to mommy and let her hug you and change your diaper. If you feel as though you need to speak to someone to sooth your wounds please call this number 1 800 CRY BABY or 1 800 SIS GIRL.

    Girly man who filed report___
    Signature of girly man____

    Real man – person being brought up on charges_____
    Signature of Real man____

    Head Coach’s Signature____

    * Not intended to be derogatory to women.

  3. best power forwards not mentioned so far,
    Timm Kerr, Clark Gillies, Brendann Shanahan, and Adam Graves.
    Best Ranger trade, Adam Graves for Troy Mallette.

  4. Also getting Jeff Beukeboom as a player to be named later in the Messier trade. A trade that falls into both categories, is Esa Tikkanen for Doug Weight. Tikk helped win a cup, but Weight went on to have a great career.

  5. Owen Nolan as well.

    At this point, Callahan is a grinder. Almost everyone that’s been mentioned cracked at least 30, a lot hit higher than 40 and quite a few hit 50 goals. I think 22-25 goals is realistically Cally’s ceiling unless he somehow develops a wicked shot because while his speed is good, his hands are a tick above average, he doesn’t really have that many weapons other than his grit to consistently put goals in the back of the net.

  6. in his peak, Eric Lindros as a premier PF. He had everything in his game; skill size aggression and intelligence. Shame about his head.

  7. The closest thing the Ranger have to a power forward right now are, Grachev in Hartford, and Anisimov with the big club. Anisimov needs to add a little edge to his game, and the ice will open up to him.

  8. Lindros would have been the greatest power forward ever … at least the biggest, fastest, strongest, meanest.

    Not sure if Mr. Hockey could skate like that. Messier could skate like that, but wasn’t nearly as big.

  9. While Mess certainly was never the biggest forward out there, remember that earlier in his career the players were smaller. So while toward the end he was probably around average sized, in his prime he was probably above average and played a lot bigger.

  10. Yeah, Lindros was a rare breed. He had ALL of the tools. Man. And he could fight pretty damn well too.

  11. Part of Lindros’s problem was that he could always bulldoze over players at the junior level, also many NHL players as well. He had a habit of keeping his down when crossing the blueline. But since he ushered in an area of bigger and heavier players, eventually he was facing similar sized guys that he couldn’t simply skate over/through.

    I remember watching a game involving the Devils and Doc Emerick was saying how back when Larry Robinson was a player he would tower over everyone. And that morning during practice, Robinson was on the ice as a coach and many of the guys were only an inch or two shorter.

  12. worst trades:

    Ratelle and Park for an old Esposito

    or A young Nordistrom, Ray Ferraro and Ian Laperriere for OLD MEN: Churla, Kurri, and Mcsorley

    Or any trade where the Rangers ended up with Neved!

    Best ever trade or Siging: Graves for Troy Mallette

  13. Oh Yeah Chopper, you right:

    “Ridley and Miller for Carpenter”

    Right up there for worst trade ever.

  14. THE REAL MikeyNJ on

    Anyone else think Saturday at Buffalo is going to be a real test for our boys in blue?

    Sabres are on a tear right now, and Miller is playing crazy good.

    13 games this month, and we HAVE to start winning.

    A hard fought win in Buffalo will be just what the doctor ordered, but I’m really, really hoping for a 3 or 4 game win streak this month, and for our secondary guys to start freaking scoring already!

    ALOT of tough teams this month, so its time to put up or shut up.

    And anyone else read the Flyers Coach John Stevens is on the hot seat? They were supposed to be challenging for the cup, and the’ve lost what 6 in a row?

    Also read there are huge divides in the dressing room.
    So much for pre season predictions.

    Oh, and I realy, realy HATE Cindy Crybaby, guy just annoys me to no end, has a horse mouth & face, and I swear some of the biggest nostrils I’ve ever seen on a human being.


  15. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Not nearly as nauseating as the NHL promoting Crosby on the side of a giant NHL bus driving through Manhattan, but hopefully more effective.

    Thanks Carp, any time you spend on the blog is appreciated.

  16. I very rarely post but i had to chime in on the power forward debate.

    Suprised no one mentioned Ovechkin yet. Hes a beast. He hits with the best of them, scores tons of goals, passes very well, plays with wreckless abandon, hes impossible to get off the puck.. isnt all that what being a good power forward is all about?

  17. The Barry beck trade blew up a very good and young team

    Pat Hickey, Lucien DeBlois, Mike McEwen, Dean Turner and Bobby Crawford.

    79 was my first season ticket year and a good young team , this trade set the Rangers back a long time

    Getting rid of Giacomin as well

    Trading for Avery was a good one as was all the ex Oilers coming here

  18. Hi folks
    just thought I’d chime in to keep the numbers up. Sometimes i would read but not write , don’t know if that makes any difference. Watched Buffalo play last night. I hope the Rangers can stay in tough with them The Sabers made the Habs look bad. Maybe the changes will make a difference.

  19. John K: I think Ovie was mentioned in the previous thread. People are bringing up guys that weren’t mentioned in the last one.

    Mikey: At this point every team presents challenges for the Rangers. For tomorrow they’re going to have new lines (yet again) and a new D (not sure how it effects the D pairings yet either). Not going to count Johnson just yet, because Henrik should be getting the start anyways.

    The Sabres are like the anti-Devils in terms of playing style but very much the same when it comes to roster construction and player development. Build from within, maintain a consistent system throughout the organization and watch considerably wealthier division rivals plunder the FA market (Buffalo = Devils, Maple Leafs = Rangers) and basically swing and miss almost every time.

    Joeydag: While that trade with LA might not be the most infamous trade of the 90’s, I’d say the trade with Zubov was worse, it was one that pretty much ended the honeymoon of winning the Cup in 94 for me. The worst part was how Sam and particularly JD were fawning over the addition of Kurri because he was supposed to provide all this great experience for Niklas Sundstrom (Freddie Sjostrom of the 90’s). As bad as Sather had done with free agent contracts, he had the right idea with letting his other execs do the right thing with rebuilding a barren farm system (the execution has obviously been off with the first rounders) after Neil Smith decided to go off the reservation with his 3 dimes for a quarter trades.

  20. Carp, I’m not really a new recruit, I only post once in a while. Hated the Middleton for hodges trade. Just had our first snow here in new Mexico

  21. Bill Guerin, Jason Arnott.
    Peter Prucha? Hey, he was bouncing off some of the meanest guys, and kept going. Does that not qualify him? J/K

    Carp, we can summon a couple of trolls. That will get the traffic up real fast. There are a lot of people who read, but don’t post. Do they need to post to increase the traffic?
    Patric, I wish I had your problem today. The bathroom brake isn’t that easy as of now. GTG.

  22. Carp-
    I take ownership of my 0.00000000276% of your recruiting message and read frequently but have not posted anything this season because everyone else says pretty much what I think too (no real secrets here as to why things are the way they are in NYR Land).

    There’s a good group here. I’m on board! Let the “Suits” be damned!

    Note to me: The glass is half full!

  23. THE REAL MikeyNJ on

    Who do you guys and gals think Heikkinen gets paired with tomorrow and does he see PP time?

  24. The Messier trade was the best ever in my opinion.

    And, no, you don’t need to comment to help the numbers. Just visit early and often. And spread the word.

  25. I don’t know if he was a “power forward” but Dino Ciccarelli was a great & nasty player. Funny how the 80’s & 90’s was some mean & nasty hockey. Now since the wussification of the NHL happened ( minus dirty head shots ) there was some great individual rivalries back then.

  26. For those just joining today, I think this trade/power forward thing started with somebody asking about bad/good trades (Middleton for Hodge, worst ever in Rangers history) and I brought up Cam Neely and first-rounder (Glen Wesley) for Barry Pederson as the worst in NHL history. Hence the power-forward conversation.

  27. The trade that saddened me the most was trading Leetch… Pissed me off to no end, I didn’t believe it… and another New Mexico Ranger fan here!

  28. Not to change the topic or anything BUT I still would like to REPOST this!!

    Little trivia…
    Anaheim’s Corey Perry had his franchise-record 19-game point streak was snapped last night…
    Who owns longest consecutive point-scoring streak in NHL history?

    (something i learned watching Ducks vs Stars last night)

    no cheating! :)

  29. wow, balmy 4 degrees this morning, just thaought I’d give you guys the weather update!


    Respectfully, I disagree on the simon deal. I thought It was horrible. I liked betts, but come on, look at simon’s stats the year he was here (not even a full one). He scored more goals in that partial year than dubi has in any of his full sesons, had 250 plus PIMs. He was the enforcer we all want. One that has skill and can play on more than the 4th line and was one hell of a great fighter. I would even argue taht he was a very good power forward. I don’t think he scored more than 29 goals in any season, but big and mean and had skill!

    Yep, the norstrom lappy trade sucked )I liked churla though)!

    Zubov trade was ok with me only because of ulfie (trading him in 1999 was one of the worst ever)!

    I really hope ilkka brings the body and attitude!

  30. Longest consecutive point-scoring streak: 51 Games in 1983–84 (October 5, 1983 to January 28, 1984, 61 goals, 92 assists for 153 points) by Wayne Gretzky!

    Carp is right… you win…uuumm… well, good job Carp!

  31. Here’s an idea to get Carp back in the fold more often and website traffic up at the same time:

    Can someone start a Facebook page dedicated to getting The Journal News to make Carp the full-time Rangers beat guy again? Just from the regulars here we’d have a ton of supporters from the get-go. We can link to the blog, of course, and start a campaign to put the pressure on the suits at LoHud. More people would visit, and Carp would probably, at the very least, get to attend more games. What do you guys think?

  32. Uh, Orr, I know you’re young … but he holds every record there is, goals, assists, points. streaks, single season, single game, career — everything.

  33. It was the first 51 games of the season, too. he also scored 50 goals in the first 35 games of a season … the previous record had been 50 in 50.

  34. more on TGO: That’s why I crack up when people compare Crosby or Ovechkin to Gretzky. It’s not even close. Not in the same hemisphere.

  35. How about the worst signing in Rangers history? That’s an easy one – GLEN SATHER!! Ten years and counting of mediocrity.

  36. That’s right! Guerin. I forgot to add him. He definitely deserves to be mentioned. And if Dubi can ever get a real scoring touch, you can throw him in the list of power forwards of today.

  37. I think as far as current NHLers, when you think power forward, you need to mention Johan Franzen. The guy is a beast, plows through defenders and scores lots of big time dirty goals. His playoff performance of 08 was epic.

    Stan Fischler on NHL lIve right now, seriously, this guy is so old he farts dust.

  38. Damn it, i knew it. I just wasn’t sure because of the Lemieux thing, but i knew it !

    I cant stand Fishler. Everything the guy says is dumb. He needs to retire already.

    His “Five From Fischer” or what ever it’s called, is stupid !

  39. Wasn’t it 50 goals in 39 games? And he scored 5 in that clinching game to boot.

    Only player with over 200 points in a season, Mario was the closest with 199.

    I was talking politely with some Pens fans before the game on Monday and telling them that while I respect Crosby for his SKILL (attitude and professionalism is a different matter) and I think he’s top 3 in the league overall, he’ll have to have some monster seasons to get mentioned in the best of all time conversations.

    I know Gretzky played in the golden era of offense with something like the top 5 scoring teams, single season totals, in NHL history, but even 120-130 point season is Gretzky in a partial year and that’s about the max that players get these days.

    Then of course you have Mario, Messier, Yzerman and even on his own franchise he still might be at best #3 since Jagr had a number of good years as well, not to mention Malkin is right up there with him in points per game.

  40. Callahan a power forward—I don’t think so. 3 goals in 27 games doesn’t cut it in any era as a forward, let alone a power forward. We’ve been sold a bag of pucks by the management and the media that somehow the Rangers’ marginal NHLers are respectable “top 9 forwards.” Last place teams have their top 9 forwards also, good enough to get them a very high draft pick after the nonplayoff season ends. Other than Gaborik, Prospal and a couple of rookies who would want any of our forwards?

  41. I’d be curious to know in today’s NEW NHL how Gretzky would be in his prime? More or less points? What do you all think?

    Bret Hull was a damn good power forward too…

  42. lw, I think Milbury was with Boston when the worst trade in history was made … so even though the Bruins were on the good side, he was involved to whatever degree.

    also, yesterday I brought up Getzlaf and Lucic and (pre-criminal) Bertuzzi.

  43. I am so annoyed. I have to take my two younger cousins to see the Devils/Wings game tomorrow night. Barf! I am going to miss the Ranger game and have to sit through that borefest. Only positive is that the seats are on the glass and we have some kind of all you can eat food deal. Whatever.

  44. To reflect on TGO- at some point Jagr was ahead of everyone, he was dominating everyone in the league. Someone calculated then that if he were to go at the same pace, it would’ve taken him 28 years to catch up TGO. Uh huh…

  45. I know he was hurt a bit, but has Eric Staal really been that bad this year, or is it just that the team has been awful?

  46. Izzy Mandlebaum on

    Carp- Posting here often is the least we can do.

    And never let it be said that Izzy isn’t doing the least he can do….

  47. Carp, I agree. How can anyone argue that from a franchise perpective, the Messier trade wasn’t the best ever? He promised to bring us the Cup and he did two years later. Nobody else has come close in the last 70 years.

  48. Rick,

    Thanks for that clarification, I always though he was bc he was a tough SOB

    I still memebet when Hatcher just demolished him into the boards that resulted in him breaking his jaw. Ugh… I remember him pulling at his bottom teeth & everything moved. Blah.

  49. Carolina then trades Marc Staal for Jordan Staal and Ryan Callahan for Joe Callahan.

    Since there are no other Rozsivals in the league, he is jettisoned to a sandbar on the Outerbanks.

  50. Izzy Mandlebaum on

    Bad trades- bad memories. Too many! But Middleton-Hodge was definitely the worst Ranger trade ever. Kudos to John Ferguson, the Montreal mole sent under cover to destroy the Rangers from within. Fergie deserves a seat in Hell between Hitler and Stalin.

    Although waiving your all time best goalie Giacomin is right up there in stupidity.

  51. Power Forward

    Can Ovechkin be considered a power foward? He always ranks in the top 5 or 10 in hitting and obviously scores goals…

    Keith Primeau was a horse; Brendan Shanahan; Eric Lindros in his day; John Leclair too; Keith Tkachuk: Gary Roberts?; Forsberg played like a beast; Todd Bertuzzi in his best days in Vancouver; Owen Nolan;

    These just come to my mind I know I’m missing a bunch and some of the names I mention are power forwards depnding on how you describe a power forward

  52. no one has mentioned richard?

    also driving traffic here? i dont see “tags” on the blog posts. i viewed page source and i figured since i could still see version of wordpress i would see tags for the blog post. then you can put a cool plugin in the sidebar called cumulus!

    if you already tag and i missed em im sorry but tag the posts and they get indexed a lot better. also please ignore this if you use any sort of SEO plugin.

    i would tell more people to visit but blogmama told me not to.

  53. I’m with you ORR….I can only watch hockey and football.
    Baseball, soccer both put me to sleep and I don’t think of golf as a sport anyway, it’s a hobby. Hit a ball then chase it.

  54. From

    “The NY Rangers, who have a goalie in Lundqvist who faces more shots than any other in the NHL and has a history of injuries is the only goalie in Manhattan who has NHL experience”

    History of injuries ? Didn’t he get injured once in his rookie season ? Has he actually ever been a scratch in a hockey game, and not just a backup due to a minor injury ?

    Where does Hacklund get his info ?

  55. ThisYearsModel on

    Ivory Coast will beat both Brazil and Portugal. As for the Rangers, the Eric Christensen era begins on Saturday in Buffalo.

  56. Orr, if i may make a suggestion…during this world cup go to a bar where there is a strong possibility of soccer fans watching a world cup match. hopefully, you can find one that has foreign soccer fans/ex-pats (european folks, south american folks, whoever). what a game with these people, have a beer, and you will be swept off your feet.

    the world cup is the best sporting event in the world. even better if you can watch it with people who know and love the game.

    whatever you do, dont watch it at home. dont watch the MLS and think that this is what soccer is. if you want to watch good soccer, start with the world cup, and a good crowd of people to watch it with.

  57. Orr – I appreciate that Americans generally don’t “get” football (not soccer), but the World Cup is the biggest and most widely-viewed sporting event in…er, the world.

    Comes across as slightly insular to be so dismissive of the game even if you don’t like it.

  58. “How can anyone watch Soccer ? That’s like watching hockey in super slow motion. I tried watching 4 soccer games, and i fell asleep during each one. Seriously. Baseball, Golf, and Soccer = Sleep time.”

    Sorry, but you come off as ignorant. Seriously. It’s the same as if I were to come here and say “How can anyone watch hockey, you can’t even see the puck, all they do is hit each other, there’s not flow, it’s so chaotic, all they do is dump the puck in.”

    I love the Rangers, I love hockey, I love the Stanley Cup playoffs / Finals … but the World Cup is a thousand times the event. And, yes, I have been to both. I have also been to the World Series, a Super Bowl, Formula 1, etc, etc.

    NONE OF THOSE even remotely compare to even a regular World Cup game … it’s best “thing” I have ever done in my life.

    Go try it before you knock it. Then come back here and tell me it’s boring.

  59. American soccer is terrible, but international soccer is really good…nothing better than the atmosphere during the World Cup

  60. I dunno Carp…

    Is waiting for games worse than watching these guys get shelled night in and night out?

    As far as our d goes… I hope Heikenen is solid in his own end… paired with Gilroy per Gross. Also Dubi skated today finally.

  61. World Cup Fans. I usually cheer for Italy. And Orr – you really should to to a local pub & catch a game, you will love it. I’m sure you all remember “Baggio!!!!!!” when he kicked over the goal. Ugh…. Lol

  62. Ernie Palladino on


    Ernie Palladino here. Used to cover the Giants and blog with Carp at this paper. Listen. You lose Carp, you lose a treasure. So get all your friends, call the relatives, and click in often. Numbers are everything in this business, so don’t be shy. Too good a blog and too good a guy to have anything bad happen to them.

  63. There was a trade Neil Smith made back in the 90’s that I think might be the best trade that rarely, if ever, gets mentioned. Randy Moller for Jay Wells. Moller was a defenseman that was soft and often got burned, kind of like the Rozsival of his day. Getting rid of him in and of itself was addition by subtraction. Wells on the other hand was a solid defensive defenseman who would become a very underrated part of the Cup run. If you went back and watched every minute of every playoff game from ’94 I’m not sure you’d find him out of position once. And he was never afraid to throw a check or drop his gloves if he needed to.

  64. That was a very good trade…Wells was a good d-man. Moller is the florida panthers radio play by play guy…He is f###### crazy

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