Quick turnaround


So I’m watching the third period of Game 1 last night, Detroit up 3-1 with about six minutes left, and Pierre McGuire is surprised that MIke Babcock is giving his fourth line major minutes, and he expresses it to Eddie Olczyk (who is not surprised), and he carries the theme into a post-game interview with one of the fourth-liners.

And I guess that’s what happens when you put an extraneous color analyst into a role where he feels he has to speak constantly, even over the main color analyst.

My points:

1) Detroit historically has the best fourth line in hockey, and historically uses its fourth line in big moments.

2) Detroit’s fourth line provided the 3-1 lead, scoring the final goal in the third period, and was playing very, very well.

3) If not up two late in the third, then when?

4) And this is the crucial point: The finals start with two games 21 hours apart, and three in four nights, and Detroit is the oldest team in the NHL. If there is any opportunity at any point for Babcock to play his fourth line late in a game, it is most beneficial to the Red Wings, and will pay off as the series goes on.

To me, it’s fairly simple, and Babcock should have been praised, not questioned.


Over at TSN.ca, today the Rangers’ off-season situation is analyzed by Scott Cullen. You can check it out by clicking here.

My lawn is calling me.

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  1. Oops, I posted that by accident…

    …he talks way too much. Like I said…Rangers in 60…:(…Okay, Wings in 6.

    Big game tonight. If Wings go up 2-0 gotta think they will take it. Maybe in 5 this year?

  2. Thats why I was hoping McGuire got the job in Minnesot;

    So i would never have to hear him doing commentary again!

    And that TSn article is sad.
    Only signed forwards for next year are Dru, Gomer, Avery and VOROS!!!

    PLease dump voros as soon as possible!!

  3. It’s gonna be a tough year next year.

    The only thing to look forward too is maybe Gilroy, Anisimov, Del Zotto, Grachev, Sanguinetti, also Cally, Dubi, and Staal. Besides that what else is there ? Another half assed year by Gomer scoring nearly 60 points, showing up every now and then. Dreary scoring 20 goals, showing up ever now and then, Rozsival looking to pas to Jags but he’s not around, Redden being a retard, and on and on.

    Oh well, the new Transformers is coming out, so that means a chance to see a good movie, hopefully, and of course the super hot Megan Fox. Someone on the Rangers needs to date her while she’s still single, we need some babes at the Garden. Avery, do something !!!

  4. TSN’s article…depressing indeed…however, I don’t think the Rangers are as screwed as some make them out to be…their fortunes could change dramatically, real quick. First, I don’t think the option of a Wade Redden buy-out is out of the realm of possibility. If someone tries to pull an RFA from them and land Sather over a cap barrel, I could see him ponying up the $2.3 million needed to send Redden on his way. That’s not much considering how he played and what they’re paying him.

    Another option may be dealing Drury back to the Avs, along with a formidable prospect and the top pick to land Duchene. They wanted him last season, and there’s a good chance Sakic retires, which leaves them short a center and devoid of leadership. I could see maybe Dru, the 19th and…say…Del Zotto for Dutch. Avs get a leader, a PP specialist and either Ashton or Holland. The Rangers get Grachev’s ex-mate…I guess another one to go for could be the Lightening’s second overall.

    Sather needs to do something because it’s going to be a tough time in the east real soon..Pens’ Crosby-Malkin. Caps’ Semin-Ovechkin. Isles’ Okposo-Taveras. Bruins’ Kessel-Lucic. Lightning’s Stamkos-Hedman. Yikes…

  5. i cant see colorado wanting to take on drurys salary especially given the flux in management/coaching. also they are already saddled with ryan smith’s alabatross of a contract. then there is drurys no movement clause.

    a buyout of redden doesnt make sense at this point i dont think, minors is the way to go b/c if u buyout now we have his contract (at a reduced rate) on the books for the next 10 years. u either leave him on the roster as a number 5 or 6 defenseman or put him in the minors until the cba expires and likely teams will be able to cut/buyout players without much if any cap hit. or u could put him on reentry waivers once the season gets going and then just split his salary with anyone who grabs him

  6. Rick: I would like to phrase one of my ex co-workers from Texas. When you’re trying to say see you later it’s usually: See Ya’ll (as in See You All Later) … not See Yas (as in See You’s Later).

  7. Johnny LaRue on

    The Rangers should hire Mr. Cheechio to re-negotiate Redden’s contract.

    “We pay you 2 million lira. Seventeen hundred American. Molto generoso. Capisci?”

  8. so what happened last night?
    not one of you showed up?

    i got to sit and talk hockey with some great people from toronto. and drink canadian beer!

    maybe next week some of you guys will show up?

  9. Pierre Mcguire is a doosh…plain and simple…he is the most biased sports caster ever. Im so glad the wild didnt hire him as their next GM. Millbury should thank Pierre for being such a tool, I guarantee that Millbury gets less hate mail now that Pierre wont STFU!!!

  10. onecupin69years and counting on

    Shame on NBC for putting on a snooze fest, they all suck period! Doc likes to hear himself talk about anything, last nights dissertation was about the way the puck bounces,if that’s the best NBC can muster yikes, get JD, anybody,I’m sure there’s a lot of guys who know hockey and can keep the flow of the game going.

  11. he mentions Avery’s salary as 4 mil.
    i thought that the Rangers were only stuck with
    1.9 million while Dallas takes the other half
    because we got him via waivers.

    did that change?

  12. onecupin69years and counting on

    TDCHI, get real, 4 final appearances and cups for the pens is sweet,the rangers or any team would take that in a heartbeat.
    The rangers ain’t going nowhere,not with dolan and sather and the rest of the crud that runs the organization, they keep hoping for free agent lotto to guide them to a cup,that’s not the way to win.

  13. I don’t think the Rangers are as screwed nest year as some people think; they’re not gonna win the Cup, but there’s hope.

    It just takes 1-2 correct UFAs for short term deals and let the kids do their thing. Nylander and Straka were those guys. Maybe a Tanguay and Knuble. That TSN guy said Sullivan who I’d be willing to try for one year.

    Remember in 05-06 when everyone though the Rangers were going to be 30th in the league (even the major network newscasters ALL laughed at them). That team had heart.

    Next year’s team could have heart, it’s all about the personnel decisions.

  14. That TSN write up seemed a bit misinformed. Valli was already signed for next year, he never mentioned Antropov or Morris or Mara, and it just seemed like it was thrown together like an 8th grade research paper that was done after soccer practice and before hockey practice the night before the paper was due.

    Anyway, congrats to Janes Roller Derby squad on a big victory last night, and LET’S GO RED WINGS!!!!!!!

  15. C-$ you are a smart guy. Excellent points. I hate Pierre Mcshorty hes so annoying and talks sooo much about such nonsense.

  16. mikeA

    the key to ufa is the short term deal. 2 to 3 years seesms plenty for anyone. keeps em honest. they still have “something” to play for.

  17. Vitaly, I’m not from Texas. Where I come from — a mostly Italian neighborhood in New York — we grew up hearing “youse” and “yas.”

    Johnny LaRue, “Si, si, si.”

    Nasty, I don’t think the Valiquette signing has been made official yet. Did you go to see Jane’s game?

    And I’m guessing the TSN story assumes the Rangers’ UFAs will all be gone. I think that’s a safe assumption, except for possibly Antropov.

    jpg, I don’t remember the exact wording in the story, but the deal with Avery is: His salary is $4M, the Rangers have to pay approx. $1.9 and take the cap hit on the $1.9.

  18. Eddie Zero irked me at an Ranger/Islander game at the Mausoleum after his versus telecast in the hallways, I said to him thanks for 94. he didn’t seem so happy when I mentioned the Rangers. He then proceeded to tell me not to say thanks for the Cup too loudly because some Islander fans might hear. I have a pretty good comedy barometer but I think the guy was pretty serious the way he said it. My friend concurred.

    This has nothing to do with the importance of the 4th line (which is important) but I needed to vent.

    Orr Humiliates Stortini/Gretzky final game locker room:


  19. Cross Check Charlie on

    Pierre McGuire is an idiot. After one of the playoff games (I forgot which) he was interviewing Chris Osgood and started off with something like, “You’re viewed as the weak link on this team. What do you have to say about that?”

    Osgood gave a nice answer. I probably would have said, “F you.” and walked away.

  20. and this one will last a lifetime on


    -I guess Fleury is not ready/or will never be one of the relatively few goalies that win Stanley Cups. (You have seen the stats I have posted about the number of active goalies that have ever been the number one goalie on a Stanley Cup winner?)

    -The off season analysis article you posted is depressing and alarming. The Rangers should tear it all down and build it from scratch. Not only should they say goodbye to Mara and Morris, they should try to move Rozy. Put Del Zotto, Gilroy and Sanguinetti on next years team. There is not fix for the forwards. There is only hope that Drury and Gomez will play better and Cally and Dubie will emerge as true superstars, and that AA and Korpedo will become really good.

    -Fu-egt-abat-it, being from metro NY, nobody shouldn’t aks about what yutes we got down to bring up.

  21. Pierre looks like a furless weaner.

    Id much rather listen to the other weaner look-alike, Panger. At least he can be funny.

    I hate the whole NBC, Verses crew. Give me ESPN or give me death !

    Ugh, and Ivanovic lost today, Sharapova is Woman’s Tennis’ only hope for hotness !!! Go Pova !!

  22. Bottom line is that comments like this are why Pierre Mcguire is a bad TV analyst and Mike Babcock is a Stanley Cup winning coach. Case closed.

  23. mikeA, difference in ’05 was tho that u had a healthy jagr in addition to those two FAs. We have nothing comparable already on the team so we need a FA or trade who can be like jagr and score goals. id try and grab a guy like cammilieri and throw him with gomez (tho doubt he will leave the flames). barring some sort of trade this team is competing for 8th place yet again and its likely to be that way every year until we ditch these contracts and lose sather and co

  24. Michabenjamin on

    I don’t know if anyone in the last post said this but Brooks is outta his mind if he thinks Ballsile is going to pay $212 million for the coyotes and then pay another $135 in expansion fees and then pay an annual fee in the millions to the sabres!

    Who the hell would put in half a million (roughly 20 % of his net worth) in any team not named the cowboys or yankees?

  25. Doodie Machetto on

    After reading through that TSN article, I just need to reiterate: I hate Glen Sather.

  26. Doodie Machetto on

    Good for Nieuwendyk. I always liked him as a player.

    And yes, Avery is why Hull and Jackson were replaced.

  27. onecup

    We are Rangers fans, we don’t like the Penguins. No one here gives a s— about what they’ve done. We’re still gonna root for the Red Wings no matter what facts you state. Would you like some chicken or steak with your Penguins Kool-Aid?

  28. ill probably take some heat for this but why not try to sign steve sullivan to a one or two year deal? i think id rather have him than knuble. sullivan has a ton of heart and he can score goals. he probably wouldn’t cost all that much either which is key.

    we won’t see any conclusion to wade redden’s stay in ny this year. zherdev though, i think he’s a goner at the draft and i also think slats would be a fool not to send him away. he’s the exact same player he was in columbus. nothing changed and i don’t think playing a full year under torts is going to do him any good either. trade his rights while you still have em!

    there’s also no way we’re landing matt duchene at the draft. as great as that would be, slats won’t be able to trade up high enough from the number 19 pick in order to land him. he’s the type of offensive player the organization desperately needs but he’s not going to be available for the rangers and he’s not a winger. unless we free up one of the top 3 center spots via trade or moving dubinsky to wing, we don’t have a spot for him.

    as far as the draft goes i think we obviously have to try to land one of the top wingers in the draft… i just don’t see it happening. there’s only 10 wingers in the top 50 ranked prospects.

    #7 – paajarvi-svensson – highest rated winger in draft and probably isn’t going to be available at 19. most scouts think he would have scored 40 to 50 goals in junior hockey but he was playing with men. last year for timra in sweden: 7-10-17 in 50 games.

    #9 – jordan schroeder – undersized and won’t be available at 19. last year for minnesota of the wcha: 13-32-45 in 35 games.

    #16 – zack kassian – would be a good first round pick. lot’s of comparisons to lucic. big, plays tough, but went missing in the ohl playoffs. last year for peterborough of the ohl: 24-39-63 in 61 games.

    #20 – carter ashton – will probably be available at 19. last year for lethbridge of the whl: 30-20-50 in 70 games.

    #24 – chris kreider – is a big question mark but he’s got some size and is a hell of a skater. maybe he’s available at 19? last year for andover of the ushs: 33-23-56 in 26 games.

    #28 – Landon Ferraro – should be available at 19 but he’s the son of ray ferraro. last year for the red deer rebels of the whl: 37-18-55 in 68 games.

    #37 – carl klingberg – he’s a banger but he’s also an energy guy. not the offensive dynamo the rangers are looking for but a nice player. last year for v. frolunda jr. in sweden: 13-13-26 in 35 games.

    #42 – erik haula – he’s small but plays mean. headed to college after this next year. last year for shattuck st mary’s: 13-28-41 in 28 games.

    #49 – toni rajala – offensive threat but a total softee. last year for llves in finland: llves jr: 13-17-30 in 29 games. iives: 2-3-5 in 21 games.

    #50 – anton lander – role player. good hockey sense but lousy skater. last year for timra in sweden: 4-6-10 in 47 games.

    so there’s the top 10 ranked wingers in the draft. honestly, do any of them make you jump out of your seat and say that’s the guy we have to land? i just don’t see it.

    if we do draft one of these wingers, who do you want and why?

  29. That commercial of Crosby saying “I never want to be in this picture again” is gonna be so hilarious if the Pens lose. Haha, not only are you in that picture, but it’s basically the same exact picture.

    Mwahaha, Crybaby !!! I hope he gets destroyed tonight.

    Helm is my new favorite Wing, and Abdekador. That guy has such a cool name, it’s like a Terminator character.

    Go Wings !

  30. Come to think of it, I think you are right Carp, but I could have sworn that the Valli signing was posted on the Rangers website. I’d have to check on that though.

    I didn’t go to Jane’s match, but I am going to try to get to one this summer. Maybe bring the family. She told me via Twitter that they destroyed the Jersey Shore squad, ha.

    If anyone else is interested in hitting up one of Jane’s matches this summer, I will find out when they are, or she can post them on here.

    I was supposed to go to Warren 77 this weekend, but too many things came up. Well, not too many things, but the South Plainfield International Festival was this weekend, and the pool opened, both of which gave me an excuse to sip back on some cold smoothies. And by cold smoothies I mean Sam’s Summer Ale and Dab. Ever have Dab? It is kind of like Heineken, but in my opinion it is a little lighter.

  31. from shesends is below in quotes

    do you really believe whoever they draft is going to be on the team this year or even next? take the best player regardless of position

    “there’s also no way we’re landing matt duchene at the draft. as great as that would be, slats won’t be able to trade up high enough from the number 19 pick in order to land him. he’s the type of offensive player the organization desperately needs but he’s not going to be available for the rangers and he’s not a winger. unless we free up one of the top 3 center spots via trade or moving dubinsky to wing, we don’t have a spot for him”

  32. If nothing else, Detroit proces the fact that having a goon is useless. You need to have players with skill on all lines in todays game if you want to win.

  33. onecupin69years and counting on

    shortyuken, 4 , count ’em 4 final appearances and 2 cups, without giving away the brinks truck, its gonna be a long time for NYR.
    maybe resigning Marra and Jagr coming back will do it, Right?

    Why not be jealous of the wings?

    Why root for them to beat the Pens?

  34. Lol, who was the idiot Ranger fan on Hockey Night Live who thought it is a good idea to bring back Samuelson, and Knuble.

    What a doofus !

    That will work, take a couple of 3rd liners, and hope they’ll turn into 1st liners. Oh wait, we tried that before, has it worked ??? NOPE !!!

  35. McGuire just brought up the “rolling 4 lines” thing to Babcock during the on-the-bench interview. Let it go, man!

  36. Detroit doesn’t need a goon when they have Kronvall and Stuart making the other team look over their shoulders.

  37. Pierre McGuire eh… who said you have to know hockey to be a hockey anal-yst!

    “Lol, who was the idiot Ranger fan on Hockey Night Live who thought it is a good idea to bring back Samuelson, and Knuble.”

    It was Beer me!

    oh and any game two feeds to watch online?

  38. it is amazing to me the young talent and rookies the wings seem to reload with each playoff year. this year its helm, ericsson (a 6’5″ defensemen), abdelkader, leino…all either in their 1st playoffs or very young in their 2nd.

    last year, it was another group of younger guys or retreads playing big minutes and in big situations. fillipula, kronwall, hudler, franzen, cleary…

    i dont know how they do it. but it is simply awesome that each year they throw newer players into the fire, they fit seamlessly into their system and they excel as a team.

    i wish the NYR were able to follow their lead and get some of the younger guys in Hartford onto the big club and have success. i can always dream!

    go wings!

  39. MikeA
    May 31st, 2009 at 3:18 pm
    I don’t think the Rangers are as screwed nest year as some people think; they’re not gonna win the Cup, but there’s hope.

    mike- if theyre not gonna win the cup, then what hope are you talking about? that we’ll be a good team? i thik we already are a good team. but were not great. and unless we get lucky with some draft picks like grachev, del zotto, sangs, artie… and they become great players along with the young guys we already got, then i think we can be a great team in about 3-4 vyears. when drury, gomez and redden are gone, then maybe we can have a good shot at the cup. i just dont want us to finally put all the pieces together and then hanks too old or is on another team because he got sick of the BS

  40. Speed Ranger on

    Carp you could run circles around Maguire – in your sleep. I’ve read that when he’s between the benches he’ll give players directions and critiques.

    Someday Olcyk will just grab the microphone away from Maguire and hold it above his head, out of reach.

  41. and i love hank, but hes still got improving to do if he wants to reach the level guys like osgood are at when playoffs roll around

  42. pj- the scouts and player personnel for detroit are amazing at their job. they find players who fly under the radar. while everyones drooling over tavares and hedman this year, detroit will probably find some kid from antarctica who goes in the 9th round and then in a years time is on the same line with zetterberg and datsyuk.

  43. fleury really blew it with that bad goal by abdelkader. i knew he still wasnt good enough to be a cup winning goalie. hes got crosby, malkin, staal, guerin, gonchar, letang, kunitz, in front of him and for a 1st round pick, 1st overall he kinda sucks

  44. damn theyre standing malkin up at the blueline. theyre d is so good. pens are done in 5. maybe 6

  45. Doodie Machetto on

    I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again: Penguins never win a Cup with Marc-Andre Fleury in net.

  46. “why not be jealous of the wings?”

    It’s not jealousy, it’s a divisional rival thing. Obviously. And I am jealous of the Wings, I think we all are. Wasn’t there a onecup here who was a Ranger fan? It can’t be you. You’ve been castigating us all for rooting against the Pens for like 3 days now. Come off it. They’re in our division, no Ranger fan will root for them.

  47. Agree 100% with Shoryuken. no reason to root for the Pens. i hope they get swept. as long as they have crosbaby and malkin i will root against them.

    also, i loved how malkin attempted to mix things up with zetterberg in the final minute of tonights game. i was reminded of him slew footing mara in last years playoffs. its garbage time, the pens arent going to tie the game, so he tries to send a message and looks like a dope.

    i hope kronwall or stuart flattens malkin in game 3.

  48. Carp, you have to get a complete answer from the NHL as to why they are not suspending Malkin for game 3. I mean, we know why but I want you to get a full explanation just so we can see how ridiculous Bettman and Campbell have become. The rule is black and white – if you instigate a fight in the final 5 minutes of a game you are suspended. Period. Not only that, his jersey wasn’t tied down so that’s two misconducts in one game (one for instigating and one for the jersey not being tied down) which is an automatic suspension anyway. So even if they say his intent wasn’t to send a message and the fight was just frustration, he still has to be suspended for two misconducts in one game.

    But the NHL has already said that Malkin won’t be suspended because at their discretion, he wasn’t looking to send a message, it was just frustration. They look like morons because the rule is very black and white. Once again the NHL is just bending the rules in whatever way Bettman wants. No wonder this league is only on Versus. Maybe Vince McMahon should be the next commissioner. If they are going to make up rules as they go along, they might as well hire a pro.

    Zetterberg’s jersey wasn’t tied down either but that would only be one misconduct for him so he was out of the game at that point but wouldn’t get another game.

    And it’s not just this game. How about Zetterberg closing his hand on the puck in the crease last game. The crease extends upward and he definitely closed his hand on the puck on Osgood’s back. That was a clear penalty shot. But the NHL says that the ref used his discretion and thought that Zetterberg was not covering the puck but was trying to bat it away. Huh? Look at that play on any replay and tell me how you could possibly say with a straight face he was trying to bat it away

    This is the downfall of the NHL. Rules that are called at the discretion of the ref and the league as it suits their purpose. They did it to Avery ever since he came back – one set of rules for the other players and another for Avery.

    In his quest to market the NHL to the mass audience in the US (who don’t care BTW), Gary Bettman continues to show he has no clue about the game of hockey and just ruins the game for long time fans.

    Put their feet to the fire Carp. Make them give you an answer that can be justified.

  49. Just another NHL double standard. They write these rules so clearly yet leave just enough loopholes, so that Colin Campbell and his cronies can review based on a number of different criteria. Yea that “criteria” is the NHL’s interest in giving the team they want to win the upper hand, and is not meant to uphold the integrity of the sport and its rules.

  50. it is ridiculous that they didn’t suspend him it just goes to show you that the league protects their superstars from everything.

  51. All players are not equal when it comes to enforcing rules. It’s obvious now. Shining stars get preferential treatment over less talented players. I mean how many case studies do we have in the past 7 years to support this?????

  52. NYRanger4Life on

    Anyone doubt that if that was Avery instead of Malkin, he would be sitting from the press box for at LEAST one game??

  53. Dr. Ogrodnick on

    Carp, the funny thing about game 1 is that earlier in the third period the announcers talked about what a good strategy it would be to give the 4th line minutes considering the quick turnaround, then dismissed it, saying Detroit would do whatever it takes to win game 1. 5 minutes later they were shocked that the 4th line was getting minutes, and couldn’t figure out why. That is why Pierre Mcguire is a duche and bad for the game of hockey,like clutching and grabbing and the late 90s trap.

  54. My take on things:

    I thought that if Pitts could get 1 in Detroit, that they might have a chance to win this series, but I also knew that Osgood is O So Good in the playoffs and has more experience. With the Wings being older and playing back to back games, I thought maybe they would wear down a bit. But they didn’t and now they are up 2-0. It is pretty safe to say that Pitts will win 1 and lose one in Pitts, and this game will be wrapped up in 5 in Detroit. That is what I think at least.

    How is everyone doing?

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