Review: Panthers 2, Rangers 1 (shootout)


If only the players had the creativity, imagination and passion you guys have. That last thread was filled with some pretty clever stuff. Very funny in many cases.

Anyway, a look back at the latest Rangers loss, 2-1 in a shootout in Sunrise last night. It’s now six losses in seven games, a grand total of 10 goals in that span (we’re counting four vs. Washington), including four games of one goal or none.

Which leads to the first point in the reflections of last night’s game:

1) This team lacks skill. You can argue all you want about the system being stifling, or the coach making bad personnel decisions, or whatever. And I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you.

… But who is transporting the puck from the defensive zone to the offensive zone? Who? Gomez is capable of doing it, and in fact that’s one of his strengths when he’s playing well. Zherdev can do it. Callahan once in a while. That’s really all, and the transportation of the puck from defense to offense is a crucial element in any attack, whether the attack is passive or aggressive. It is a terribly under-appreciated facet of a good power play, and thus one of many reasons the Rangers’ power play stinks. And it truly does stink.

One PPG in eight games now, and counting.

Chris Drury is a finisher, a good faceoff guy and a decent defensive center. He can’t carry the puck the length of the ice. Dubinsky is everything you want in a young, still-developing player. He can’t carry the puck the length of the ice. Naslund isn’t a carrier of the puck. These are the top “offensive” players on the team, and they don’t transport the puck. Worse, there isn’t exactly Brian Leetch on the back end. Staal can lug it sometimes.

So that’s a big problem I see.

Then you look at the Rangers compared to the opponent. Florida’s forwards skate better (especially with Richard Zednik back from that horrfying injury), are more physical, and finish better. Florida’s defensemen have far more puck skills (and far more goals).

2) More of the same as above. The Rangers use Drury, Gomez, Naslund on the power play. That’s not exactly the ’85 Edmonton Oilers. It’s not even the ’07 or ’08 Rangers. Or McClanahan-Pavelich-Hedberg. Or Ogrodnick-Kisio-Mullen. Or Mallette-Nicholls-Gartner. You get the idea.

I don’t remember when the point men were so dismal.

3) That all said, also … I didn’t think last night’s game was boring. I didn’t think the Rangers played without heart or passion. I thought they were physical and pretty decent against a team on a roll and at home, and against a goalie that was almost as good as Lundqvist, who was spectacular.

This was the 14th time all year they led after one period,  thanks to the fourth line. And they battled, and they picked their spots in terms of chances to be aggressive. But, geez, who is going to score a goal? 

Did we mention the power play is rather fragrant? Oh.

4) I hate the shootout.

I may have mentioned that before. In the old days, after the OT, this would have been a “good” tie. On the road, against a hot opponent, you get on the plane after a 1-1 tie feeling pretty good. Instead, because of a skills competition, and a shot that caught a piece of Lundqvist and snuck through, it’s a loss. Another loss.

Yeah, they got a point. But they feel like they lost.

On Wednesday, at home, they played a hard passionate game against Washington, attacked hard, scored four goals, and won in a shootout. If they’d lost that skills competition — Callahan’s goal off the crossbar and off the goalie won it — they’d have felt awful. Instead they felt as if they’d removed an ape from their backs. Because of a skills competition. It’s silly and stupid.

5) Some of the MSG Network voices are starting to get a little brave in questioning Redden and the Prucha situation, aren’t they? The next two games will be on NBC (vs.Philly tomorrow, 12:30) and Versus (Monday against JD’s Blues in St. Louis). It will be interesting to hear what non-payroll people have to say.

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  1. Ill be the first to agree that the shootout is extremely anti-climactic, especially in real life. They should just take players off the ice until somebody scores. Sean Avery will bring new life to this team. It’s sad to say. We wanted him in the first place, now we have him half price.

    We just SORELY need a blue liner that can move the puck.

  2. Redden was suppose to be that guy, you just have to wonder why he has become so bad. Uninterested, rebelling because no one seems to aggree with the coach. All good questions that someone needs to dig up and find the answers. My bet is from the post game comments etc. that this team is not happy with Renney or his system, and how Jagr and Shannahan were not brought back because of Renney. There is something going on in this locker room but were not privi to it.

  3. Sather will probably pay the announcers not to say anything bad…or question anything about the team :)

  4. I could not believe my ears when Joe said that Redden played an outstanding game or something to that effect. You are right about puck movers and transition. Transition like Florida had last night gives you no time to breathe and that is all the Rangers D look like they wanted to do last night. I thought the earmark of this team was being fit over practice. At least that is what Renney says. But they played a team coming off a road game the night before and still took until late in the 3rd to look like they were starting to get their legs.

    It is time to play Prucha. Last night was a perfect game for him. Voros brought nothing but scarecrow blowing in the wind. Replace Redden with Kalinin…DK is better at moving the puck and skates much better than Redden these days. Redden has no first step and is constantly needing to survive a simple get to the puck, turn and pass out….and I must say this, thoug hI hate to do it…Orr has got to sit a few games. He brings the intimidation, but the Rangers need to add skill across all lines.

    H out.

  5. It was a shame to lose that game, especially after how well Lundqvist played all game long. This team is pathetic in the aspect that they can’t score to save their life.

    Well said about lacking a true puck carrier. I do think Staal has the talent to turn into an offensive defeseman, but he rarely carries the puck into the zone. We know he is capable of doing it, I just wish he would do it more often.

    About Redden: Remember he was bad with the Senators last year too, but the Rangers organization was just hoping that was a fluke year and he would bounce back this season. Obviously they were extremely wrong.

  6. Joe also said (forgot who he was working for on this one) that Staal should be given more PP time since the coaching staff is “frustrated” with the people there. Guess who the people there are that he is referring to?

    Closest Joe has come to being off the Ranger shill reservation. It must be getting bad even to the MSG crew.

    Also the Maven demanding that Renney needs to play Prucha.

  7. i was watching the first period last night when they mentioned prucha not in the lineup. then i wited for an opinion from either sam or joe. nothing! neither one had the guts to say what they feel about it! i used to think sam a nd jd back in the day would give you honest and heart felt opinions on the rangers and the rest of the league. what is truly a sad commentary on the situation is that i look forawrd to hearing the NBC and VS announcers so we can hear honest truthful and in depth commentary!

    horrible! where did the rangers and the msg (ch 9)i watched as a kid go? i remember gordon and the big whistle (shoot the puck barry!) and even sam with espo in the early-mid 80s give blunt honest facts! jd was legendary. but this is just plain awful!

  8. Carp

    I’m sorry but I disagree bigtime with your assessment of who can lug the puck from one end of the ice to the other.

    A team is lucky if it has one player who can breakdown a D and enter the zone with possession due to his speed and skating ability. In Gomez, for all his faults, they have one of the best in the NHL at that. And when you write that Dubinsky “can’t carry the puck the length of the ice,” you are simply incorrect. He has done that repeatedly this season, though perhaps not as much as last year when Jagr tended to open up more ice for him.

    The point I’m making is that there is plenty of skill on this team to score enough goals to place the Rangers in the mid-range of the league. They don’t score because they are actively discouraged from free-wheeling offensively. Unless of course they are down several goals in a game, or in a desperate situation as they were vs. Washington the other night, when the players mutinied and just went for it.

    But the instant the team pulls back from the edge of the cliff, and Renney feels secure enough to re-impose his fear, he calls off the dogs, the team stops attacking, and the result is plain to see.

  9. longtimerangersfan on

    Hate is a strong word so let me just say I “don’t like” Dolan, Sather and Renney! For the first time in my 30 some odd years of watching the Ranger’s I don’t look forward to the games. I DVR them, fast forward to the goals, watch the inevitable shoot-out then erase them. I know it’s not fair to Lundqvist but I just can’t stand to see the TOTAL lackluster play anymore. I woulde rather see them lose every game but give it their all then this crap.

    “Quite honestly” I agree that Prucha should be playing but the more we say it the more Renney will be pissed off and not play him, IMO.

  10. Renney has set this up perfectly to bury Prucha once again. After how dismal the team has played offensively, he will finally put Prucha back in the lineup against Philly. Prucha will hustle and play his heart out. He will also get physically punished by a typical Flyer team and then Renney will say that Prucha wears down and can’t compete at this level and sit him again.

    You can see this one coming a mile away.

    I don’t know if we’ll ever know the real story here. It may be as simple as Prucha not reporting to Hartford and Renney exacting vengence no matter what it does to the team.

    You are right Carp. This team lacks skill. It also lacks a head coach with a system that can get the most out of the players he has. And I’m tired of hearing how Renney has overachieved with this team. Lundqvist has saved them points time after time. It has nothing to do with Renney or his boring hockey.


    Great read Rick!

    you know for a fact that the pox upon humanity, Mike Millbury will just have a feast with his snarky comments during the game tomorrow ( you know he’ll say something wiseassed about Jagr at one point), and I seriously cannot wait to hear what Keith Jones says on the Versus telecast Monday. The last two times the Rangers were on Vs. he ripped Voros once and absolutely killed Redden twice. It’s laughable and sad at the same time.

    Doesnt it strike you as odd that both Cally and Dubi are still young developing players, but the smaller guy can transport the puck? Cally is my favorite guy on the team cuz even though he’s a ‘smurf’ he is just all energy all the time. Sure he’ll make mistakes now and then, but at least you know he’s going 100% out there, not disrespecting the jersey OR the fans. How was it possible the smallest guy on the team had 12 hits a few games ago?! Because he plays all out, kinda like that guy, you know.. Prucha! LOL

    Dubinsky needs some fighting lessons and one day he could be our new hard working Adam Graves type player.

    I really wish I could hear all the post games, instead of a day or two later when they post it on the Rangers website. I’d love to hear what you guys get to hear (and see) after every game.

  12. carp: i couldnt agree with you more. this team skill is definitely in the bottom third of the league. i for one want prucha to play but lets not view him as the savior. he should be in the rest of the year but he will not produce enough for all of us to say i TOLD YOU so. as a season tix holder in sec 330 i for one have no faith in this team and for all my years of rooting for this team i have never hated any team more. when they dint make the playoffs for 7 years at least i wasnt feeling like this.

    drury will be remembered for one thing and that his is goal with 7.7 sec left 2 years ago against us.

    other wise he is useless as well as that BORN LOSER REDDEN.

  13. ford,

    i have to agree with carp here…the skill (lack of) on this team is glaring. they are basically 3 sets of 3rd and 4th liners with a 2nd line. first line talent? where? zhedrev? could be. gomez? maybe. naslund? used to be, not now. drury? with the right linemates but not here. look around the league, hey, look at the devils. they have elias and parise. i would say that they are easily more skilled than any of the rangers forwards. philly? carter, richards, briere when healthy, lupul, gagne, all better than rangers, washington? c’mon?, even buffalo has vanek. boston? easily better.
    i could name at least 15 teams with better skill players.

  14. HomerJ:
    Did Joe really praise Redden’s game last night? I was watching the Florida feed, since I have center ice through Direct TV and the Dolan’s decided they no longer want me to have the HD feed, and Potvin was constantly ripping on Redden for being out of position and lazy.

  15. zZzZ 13 ZzZz rules!! on

    Yo Carp , if we have like almost the crappiest skill level amoung NHL teams , So your saying we have our Salaries at full max to the cap and we still suck in the skill department…that is sad …listning to Linda depressing post and now this ,,just great. We don’t wan’t Dubinsky fighting at all , A good power forward can’t play well sitting in the box all the time for fighting…

  16. Pretty soon, there won’t be many teams with worse records than the Rangers so the chances of losing Avery when he is “re-waivered” are slimmer. Avery won’t help this miserable team but he will make it more entertaining to watch the games. Bringing Prucha back won’t help this miserable team, but it will make it more entertaining to watch the games. Redden actually skating or leading the PP rush won’t help this misearable team….ah, forget it!

  17. Dr. O, I believe it was a back-handed compliment: Like “he’s not bad when he’s not oblivious” or something to that effect. I don’t remember the exact remark. In other words, he’s oblivious most of the time.

  18. “Bottom third of the league, even lower??” No way. Not even close.

    That would mean there are at least twenty teams who have more talent than the Rangers. So, of teams like …

    NYI, Atlanta, LA, Phoenix, Edmonton, Colorado, Nashville, St. Louis, TB, Toronto, Ottawa, Carolina, Florida, Columbus, Minnesota, Dallas

    …. who has more than the NYR?

  19. Linda, I would have more respect for Jones, Milbury etc. if they would blast Sather instead of Jagr and Voros. They are taking the coward’s way out.

  20. ny13

    Fifteen sounds about right to me, too. But that puts the NYR in the middle of the pack, not in the bottom tier.

    Ottawa and TB I see the arguments for, but they are awfully top heavy.

  21. wd40. Florida and Dallas and Tampa have more skill, probably Ottawa The others are comparable at worst, excluding NYI and a few others. Even Atlanta has a couple of guys capable of 30+goals, and defensemen who can carry the puck and QB the PP.

  22. id say the only teams that have worse forwards than us are florida (horton/weiss arent there yet), nashville, islanders and toronto with st.louis/phoenix close but at least they have some promising youth

    that being said, i dont think any of those teams or any other team in the league is dying to get their hands on any of our forwards

  23. Voice of Reason on

    Hey Carp,

    I have to stand behind Ford a bit here. The Team has the requisite talent to compete. Have you looked at the Columbus roster lately? How is it that they beat the Stanley Cup Champs the other night?

    A Power Play breakout, sans one prolific skater, needs to be more synchronized. Most opponents just allow the Rangers to get to the neutral zone before they send a forward to angle the puck carrier. If two skaters were skating parallel (about 20 ft apart) how could one attacker cover them?

    Where the Rangers really fail on the PP is by not aggressively pursuing loose pucks, and by stagnating- allowing one penalty killer to cover two players. When you stand still, it’s easy to cover two players. Let’s not get into the fact that Roszival, who is being paid for his shot and his ability to put up PP points, will not shoot one timers unless the pass is PERFECT. Redden, sadly is just not competent, for whatever reason.

    When the talent level is not elite, it is integral that the Coaching is. Renney’s inability to figure out effective forward lines and a PP scheme magnify the teams weaknesses.

  24. wd40, on your list dallas, ottawa and tb have more first line talent. you wouldn’t take healye spezza or alfredsson? or lecavalier, st louis and malone? or richards, ribiero, ott, morrow? you might even make a case for carolina. staal and whitney?

    from your post thats 13 teams. so i would rank the rangers between 15 and 20 as far as skilled forwards. thats bottom half close to bottom 3rd

  25. Carp, you are exactly right with that “oblivious” quote. I brought it up in the last thread. It was Maloney who said it in the Post game about Redden.

  26. nyr13

    If the criterion is comparing first line talent alone, I get the point. But I guess I feel that the lack of competent coaching has put a stranglehold on guys on the NYR who have proved to be very productive offensive players elsewhere.

    The Bruins had ten guys who scored 20 goals a more a few years back, and they were a dynamic offensive team even though there was no one line or guy who stood above everyone else

  27. I really think it’s time to give Sanguinetti a shot as a PP guy for like 2-3 games to see what he’s got. It can’t hurt. Dress him as a 7th DMAN, limit his 5 on 5 play, and use Zherdev/Callahan/whoever is skating well as an extra forward.

  28. the point i made in my original post was that the rangers have no real first line players. a bunch of 3rd and 4th liners with a couple 2nd liners. gomez, zherdev, drury or naslund either used to be or will be 1st liners but not at this time.

  29. howyagonnatellme on

    Can we make sure we distinguish that there IS a serious difference between offensive abilities and the ability to run a powerplay?

    Of course skills make it EASIER to run a good powerplay, but the PP is about strategy, as well. They play like a team with no offensive skills, and our pointmen do not get the shots we need them to take. There is no movement.

    Don’t tell me there is any reason the ISLANDERS or the MAPLE LEAFS should have better PPs then the Rangers. Yet, without many pure offensive skills, they do.

    Also, I disagree with some of teams listed as having more offensive firepower than the Rangers. We watch these teams playing from their own offense-first strategies… it’s a little hard to compare. How can we tell who has more offensive ability? If the Rangers opened up, could Dubi have 25 goals this season? Zherdev thirty? If Prucha played, and played on the PP, where he succeeded? That really is the question, and it completely changes things. Does Tampa Bay really have more offensive skills, because they have Vinny and Martin? Remember, Malone spent last season being set up by Crosby. I’m not saying they don’t have offense, and they obviously have two go-to guys that the Rangers don’t have, but we’re comparing systems here. Comparing super stars, but what about secondary scoring? It makes things a lot fishier. Look at Ottawa. First line, sure. But the next three?

  30. btw,
    96 world cup final series is on NHL network all day! the amount of talent on the ice in this series is amazing! richter stood on his head and was MVP!

  31. “gomez, zherdev, drury or naslund either used to be or will be 1st liners but not at this time.”

    About as succinct a critique of the coaching as anyone could make.

  32. i hear people say that other teams pay different systems that create more offense and its the system here that limits offense.

    point is this. NO team in the league says “we are gonna throw everyone forward and try to score as many goals as we possibly can” with no regard for defense. EVERY team in the league plays a defense first system. other wise the games would be 9-8 and you would see 3 on 1’s all over the ice.

    EXAMPLE: what team has the 2 highest scorers in the NHL? pittsburgh. what are they playing now? THE TRAP with only 1 forechecker and 2 forwards back.

    you can’t blame the defensive system as the ONLY reason the rangers don’t score. it is a big factor but it also comes down to the fact that they do not have 1st line offensive talent

  33. I think you’re wrong here on one point Carp, Dubinsky can certainly carry the puck the length of the ice. have you been watching the same player I have?

  34. howyagonnatellme on


    Without a doubt you are correct, this team needs a legit goal scorer and Drury and Gomez can’t pass as that “go-to” star that the Rangers desperately need. However, you can’t deny the system strangles them. They dump the puck to change instead of push a forecheck. They play one guy high instead of getting some offense going. Even the shots they take are angle shots; never good scoring chances. They don’t have players standing in front of the net! That all speaks to the system, and it doesn’t change the fact that this team will still have trouble scoring, but 28th in the league in offense is a little more than just trouble. It’s down right pathetic, and they can be better than that, IMO.

  35. *REPOST*
    jerkins perkins(mike in ia)
    February 13th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
    when is this team gonna get in the game? im sick of this crap. i have now joined the dark side of the force. wd40, true- etc.. teach me thy ways. i have now officially turned

    Welcome, young paduwon learner. We will teach you the TRUE ways of the force. There are several lessons to be learned from last night:

    1) There are no gods, before THE KING.
    2) Thou shalt not ridicule the 4th line, unless it is to prove Tom Renney overplays them, as they do their job better than most.
    3) Patients is a virtue, just ask young Petr Prucha…
    4) Unless it concerns over-throwing the czar, Tom Renney. Alas, we can only pray this endeavor prevails before the end of our days (this season).

    Welcome to the dark side, you still have much to learn, but there are many here who are wise and willing to teach you in their old age (wd40, salty, ford, dubi or not dubi).

  36. Ok you hate the shootout Carp we know…But its helped us in a sense in the first half of the season.

    As for not having skill players, I completely agree. We have some key players a team would need to make a run but we dont have an IT player. We dont have that guy to put the game on his shoulders. Since we are completely screwed with cap space, it seems that we will not have this player for a few years…Im still trying to figure out why a team that lacks goals will play Voros over Prucha game after game.

  37. Fitzy, and others: Maybe I haven’t seen Dubinsky enough yet.

    nyr13, and everybody. If you can see the ’96 World Cup, I suggest you watch it. The BEST hockey I’ve ever seen. Sick skill levels, and mucho ferocity.

    I rank it just ahead of the ’94 Eastern Conference final, which was the BEST, meanest, most remarkable, jaw-dropping playoff series I’ve ever seen.

  38. Carp, I have to agree with wd40 and ford here (as we all usually agree).

    Perhaps the Rangers are 15-20th in offensive talent, but to say their 21+or worse I think is confounded at the best.

    Its very difficult to dissect what Prucha, Dawes, Callahan, Drury, Gomez, Naslund and Zherdev would do on good teams with strong offensive systems. Any of those guys could be 20+ goal scorers on good teams where the D are expected to generate strong transition from the blue line out. They would also benefit on the score sheet if they weren’t so busy behind the Red line in a 1-2-2 formation.

    Renney has sucked the life out of this offense, just as he did with Jagr (123-90-75) just as he did to every other player here in the past few years (Prucha, Shanahan, Straka, etc…).

    But there’s no way this team should lose a 2-1 game in the shootout, ESPECIALLY when they only made it to the shootout on the back of Lundqvist … only to critique the team as lacking offense. Hell no, there are bigger problems than the players. Afterall, they started 10-2-1 at one point, didn’t they?!

  39. agree with Ford, disagree with Carp.

    Look at last season. Jagr, straka, shanny. There’s no way we were “bottom tier” and we were still struggling to score goals. While we obviously don’t have the same firepower, the result is EXACTLY the same. NO GOALS. Why? Because of Renney and his mind-numbing style of defensive hockey that we don’t need to play.

  40. Dawes, Callahan on the shootout, where was Drury on the shootout last night, I remember for the past two seasons everyone was getting on Jagr’s case for not going on the shootout since he was the captain.

  41. Sather should be hung from the highest tree for giving Redden as much as his giving him for as long as giving it to him..We are being robbed as fans. IF Redden played like he gave a crap I dont think Id hate him as much..The guys a wet blanket.


    Yes, yes, yes! Exactly.
    That’s a great point too.

    This PP was awful with Jagr, Straka, and Shanny as well! You’re telling me a guy who had scored 123 points and had a career 600 goals plus another guy who had 600 career goals completely forgot how to in less than a year! Negative, Carp. Renney chokes the offense out of his forwards.

  43. Nobody is saying this is a Stanley Cup roster but for
    F%@#’s sake… are you going to tell me that they don’t have enough talent to score when they have one extra man on the ice?!!!!

    There’s absolutely no excuse for the PP being THIS BAD for THIS LONG.

    I’m sorry, there just isn’t.

  44. I am not sure where they rank in the league in skill, but I definitely think this team is overrated in that area, and there isn’t much of it.

    Naslund plays typical European like – good skills, but cannot really transfer that to game-situation.

    Captain Invisible – Not much to like here really. A finisher you say? I don’t agree with that. There have been lots of opportunities he’s had to finish, but he doesn’t.

    Zherdev – needs someone to work with him

    Blowmez – uh, I agree with you on carrying the puck in the zone, but what good is that when he routinely gives it away almost as fast as he enters the zone. I mean, its uncanny how he does this, and immediately the puck is going the other way by the opponent. This guy is real sad hockey player. What else does he have? Toughness? Good shot? hard-working? No, no and no!

  45. This One Will Last A Lifetime on

    the thin Ranger talent has to be assembled with more thought
    would Datsyuk be this good if he did not play with Zetterberg?

    load up a true top line with better than average skills/speed
    1 st line Gomez-Dubinsky-Zherdev

    give Naslund the muckers, grit, to get the soft winger with above average scoring hands more opportunites
    2 nd line Drury-Voros (soon to be Avery)-Naslund

    put the true proven NHL third liners together
    3 rd line Callahan-Korpedo-Dawes (and rotate Prucha in here)

    the fourth line has chemistry and plays together

    Lets do the best with what we got or go out and get a 50 goal scorer whos team is not going anywhere (Kovalchuk-Heatley-Spezza-St.Louis-LeCavile) even if we have to give up some of this so-called core!


    13..sorry to be depressing, but these guys have got me in a funk down here, and being so far away and not hearing what you guys get to hear, I can only go by what I see. And it’s sad. A lot of people will say Renney has the team overachieving, but with the amount of veterans on this team, is that an honest assessment?? Maybe if these guys gave back some of their money for their middling performance so far, maybe that wouldnt be as bad LOL.

    lenny, i have no respect for milbury at all…he just loves to put the screws to this team (and jagr) but everyone once in a blue moon, he does say something that makes sense.

    I would love for the non payroll announcers to take Renney AND Sather to task for things, but for their own reasons, they don’t. Renney is a smart man, noone can take that away from him, but maybe its time to change the system just a little bit. But when Keith Jones calls out Voros and Redden, he’s just pointing out how lackadasical they are on the ice. To call someone out for making bad passes in front of the goalie, or for just loafing around on the ice, that’s all on the player. I dont mind them getting called out. I haven’t had a game with Sam and Michelobetti for a while so I don’t know what they are saying, only what you guys put up in this blog.

    And you may not want Dubinsky fighting at all, but if he’s gonna throw down as he’s proven he’s willing to do this season, then he really needs some pointers. I can really see this kid being that hard working Graves type player on this team with just a little bit of work.

    I really wish they’d just turn it around and play for pride. The team DOES have talent, its just not being used in the correct pairings. Hank needs some help up front, and when ‘up front’ gets back on track, we already KNOW what 30 is capable of. He’s given us the chance to win more often than not, only to be let down by the lack of scoring.

  47. If I ever saw a friend of mine or even a complete stranger wearing a snuggie, I think I would be forced to pour hot coffee on them and punch them in the throat. And if they had it on during a game while sitting in the bleachers, I would have to push them over the top. I am sorry. Just had to say that :)

  48. The only way to get a 50-goal guy is to trade a lot of the system for one and I’m not down for that. Keep building from within, see what a lot of these younger kids got, and pluck an FA or two and that’s it. The best way to get under the cap is to waive Redden or trade Rozi/Naslund.

  49. Carp, you’re dead on. This is, at best, a mediocre team made up of career journeyman, and a few glorified “leaders” who don’t know how to finish without the players that propelled them to success earlier in their careers. Throw in a couple awful defenseman and over-fan-appreciated newbies and you have a team that’s, well, as bad as the one we’re watching. Thanks for saying it.

    But, how about digging around and finding out if anyone, anywhere, in the organization is admitting this and/or plans on doing anything about it? If I got the sense that anyone — anyone — at MSG cared that this team was bad and getting worse I would feel a lot better about being a fan right now.

    It’s like we’re shouting into the whirlwind. And for all us fans, it’s a thankless Job.

  50. Jagr said he waited in NY for the month of June, but never heard from Sather until July 1, when they lowballed him on a contract and said take it or leave it. Then management blamed him for wanting too much. Nylander fired his agent, a Sather crony, for giving him a bad deal. He was not offered another contract. Management never even mentioned the loss of Straka — a player who had filled a variety of top roles extremely well for 3 years. They dangled Shanahan for months, leading him on about a position, then just said forget it. These are all top players (not to mention that when Sather coached he questioned whether Bure really was hurt, which infuriated Bure. Bure has never been back to NY nor is he ever mentioned.) Sather has a history of treating top players very poorly, which sounds like an ego problem on his part. Only one guy can be the king, and Sather wants it to be him. Even Messier, who has been hinting around, has yet to be offered anything at all. Thus the Rangers consist of all well-compensated 3rd line players, who must worship at the altar of Satherism. Sather has built his ideal team.

  51. Dr. O,

    He did say it. They even highlighted a play where Redden stick checked the Panther (might’ve been Zednik) coming around his left side. I couldn’t believe he was saying that Redden’s timing is awesome and that play showed his skill. If he had any skill he would have stepped up and plastered the guy….

  52. Forcrissakes,playPrucha! on

    “Rick Carpiniello February 14th, 2009 at 11:48 am

    that’s fine to disagree with me. No prob. But I think this team’s overall skill is well below the league average, maybe in the bottom third or lower.”

    The lack of skill is arguable, however, the problem with these guys is that they do not play as a team. They are not a cohesive unit and play as if they are in a pick-up game.

    Another thing that is missing is what I liked in Florida’s game last night. Boynton (I think) going after Mara after Mara crosschecked a Panther. This team needs much more of that sort of stuff. Skill level is a small part of this game. There is no excuse for lack of heart.

  53. Just say no to Snuggies. Ha, homerj, yes, I know what you are talking about. That is when Maloney was praising Redden with a back handed comment. It was in that same segment that he said, “Redden can be a good dman when he is not oblivious to the play or what is going on around him.” I think you are just remembering the praise part, but trust me here, it was far from praise on Redden. I know EXACTLY what Maloney was really saying, and I think a lot of viewers did too.

  54. Redden Gomez and Drury suck and don’t care. Prucha is not playing, Voros is a joke, some of the young guys are good but it’s not like we’re developing any alex kovalevs here. this team is run by dinosaurs whose time has passed.

    By the way, has anybody been listening to Steve Somers? he’s been killing renney, drury, etc. it’s really refreshing to hear. my favorite is the Renney or Art Howe game. He plays a post-game conference and the caller has to guess whether it’s Renney or Howe. Tom Renney: Art Howe in a suit and tie. This team never admits/fixes their mistakes on time. I wish we would just tank and go for a decent draft pick. Whats the point though we’d just take another Hugh Jessiman.

    Some brave, mentality unstable ranger fan should plot to assassinate Sather/Dolan/Renney/Pearn/Pelino. He’d be a NY hero!

  55. Renney truth squad on

    I respectfully disagree with you on many points, Carp.

    first off, Dubi can carry the puck.

    second, some Ranger Dmen do not carry the puck because Renney won’t LET THEM. that is part of the stifling system we are talking about. Staal can do it, but renney frowns on it.

    you can’t seriously be saying that the Panther forwards, Stillman, Campbell’s son, washed up Zednik, etc are great forwards. I guarantee that most GMs in the league would want none of them except Booth, Horton, Frolik and maybe Weiss

    and don’t forget. this team has not even made the playoffs since 2000. and the only major change they made since last season is a better coach. see, Renney again.

    McCabe and ballard and Boynton are not exactly coveted except Ballard for his d zone work

    McCabe was booed in Isles, Tor, etc he would be the Rangers new Redden if they got him last summer.

    no, the major change in Fla is the maturing of a few young guys, and mostly the new coach, peter Deboer, who was coveted by several NHL teams.

    and guess what, Deboer has them forechecking much more than Martin did in past years. again, see Renney.

    those same guys you mention, Gomez drury and Naslund were part of reasonably successful PP in NJ Buff and Vanc, so again look at Pearn and Renney .

    and the shootout is Renney’s meal ticket. without it, he is a dead man walking.

    they have more SO than any other NHL team since it began

    that includes the supposed more skill scorers that they had the past 3 years. how do you explain away that fact? they were still playing for the tie in those days too because the same coach was providing the system.

    and I vigorously oppose a tie in any game. If you want to go longer, or go to 3-on-3, fine, but the tie was awful, and you’ll notice that NHL games are more popular than ever, even coming out of a year lockout, because they now are more entertaining to the fans. that is what they should be.

  56. Nasty,

    Yeah I heard that one. But Michelletti was praising him. Said it was his best game of the season…blah, blah and showed that play.


    “Some brave, mentality unstable ranger fan should plot to assassinate Sather/Dolan/Renney/Pearn/Pelino. He’d be a NY hero!”

    or SHE!!! hmmmm

  58. I am going to play a little EA NHL 09 on the 360. My name is Mr G Money if anyone wants to play.

  59. There is really nothing more to be said. Sather has managed to pay an astronomical amount of money for a middle of the road team…with very little to be hopeful for in the immediate future. We are strapped with the likes of Redden, Gomez etc for awhile. I almost feel like not supporting the team until a change is made in the GM position.
    I don’t even want to talk hockey about my team right now. There is nothing to look forward too, IF we make the playoffs we certainly aren’t going anywhere and I can’t even see us getting past the first round. And then next summer, its not like we can go out and even get what we need…we have players who in my mind need to stay here…Callahan, Dubinski, and Staal…and is it even possible to keep them? I don’t even know what to say! I can’t even attempt to fathom Sathers thought process in all of this…it is incredible. If I were Sather I’d fire myself out of sheer embarrassment. He is an embarrassment to the organization, and the fans.

  60. my take on the shootout, it is a joke. it is a total sham that a game, and a point in the standings can be determined on a skills competition. is it exciting? hell yeah. but it is complete joke that it counts for anything. why are people so against a tie? its a game that is closely played and most games come down to a few minutes or even seconds. some games are wins, some games are losses and some are ties. thats what makes sports enjoyable…unpredictability. why isn’t it used in the playoffs? cause its a joke that shouldn’t be used to determine a winner.

  61. Some trade ideas... on

    Would anyone do any of the following deals? (All involve even money)

    Rozsival and Prucha to Edmonton for Dustin Penner and Steve Staios – could help both teams by giving them players that would better fit in their respective systems.

    Gomez and Prucha to the Hawks for Havlat and Byfuglien. (Havlat is off the books after this year and we could either bring him back, or not – the Hawks would actually want Gomez- I’d move Byfuglien back to defense for obvious reasons).

    Gomez, Dubinsky, Staal, 1st rounder in ’09, 2nd round in ’10 for Vinny LeCavalier (If tampa wants dubi and staal so bad, they’ll have to take Gomez, and if they want more from us in this deal, then that’s probably fine with me too at this point)

    Rangers need to do one of the above deals. But you know Sather won’t.

  62. Holy crap! Dubinsky is really red in that hockey’s finest interview that was posted here earlier. It really highlights his huge Crosby DSL, I’m sorry to say. (Don’t try to interpret that one, Carp!)

  63. Rick Carp,

    Dubinsky was one of our best puck rushers last season. He used to carry it from behind our net to the offensive blue line quite regularly and effectively. I think he stopped doing it early this season after he had a costly turnover. I guess we can thank Renney for that.

    As for Florida having all these better players, at the end of the match, they still scored ONE goal – the same as our team. What are they doing with all that skill?

  64. The math with Glen Sather is very simple. Last year we had Jagr, Straka, Shanahan & Avery and this year Redden, Naslund & Zherdev. Other than the potential of Zherdev not a drastic improvement in this team offensively. Renney can revise lines play different players discipline and yell at the team.. The fact of the matter is “It is what it is” Both Drury & Gomez are at best very good 2nd line players and worked much better with Jagr, Straka & Shanny. We just don’t have really great talent and Sather has done very little to change this fact. For us to win Henrik has to play flawless each & every game. Maybe Avery can help to some degree. In short, the same player that made Prucha look good made the Rangers look good, Jagr.

  65. Hey “Some Trade Ideas”

    Why don’t you throw Madison Square Garden in the package for Vinny L. to sweeten the deal? R U Kidding me?? Not sure I’d trade Staal straight up for him, let alone Dubi and the first and second round picks.

  66. Carp: As much as you hate the shoot-out, the Rangers would have nine less points if there was no shoot-out. This is the point totals I come up with for the top teams in the East minus their shoot-out points:

    Boston 81
    New Jersey 71
    Washington 71
    Flyers 62
    Florida 61
    Canadiens 59
    Carolina 57
    Rangers 57
    Sabres 57

    So instead of the Rangers being in fifth place, they would be fighting not to fall out of a playoff position.

  67. if there is supposedly no skill, then why is some of the teams skill being scratched every night. that is on RENNEY.

  68. @ Chris F.

    “…team made up of career journeyman”? What does that mean, that the core of this team is made up of contract nomads?

    Naslund: Most of of his career was in Vancouver, save for 2.5 years in Pitt.
    Gomez: One team, Nearly a decade with NJ
    Betts: Calgary
    Drury: Colorado, Buffalo one season with Calgary
    Zherdev: One team
    Rosival: One team, Pitt
    Redden: One team, Sens

  69. Give Stahl an "A" on

    I am new to this blog and feel that many of the comments are right on. The items that annoy me most about the Rangers are:

    > There $$$ guys stink. I hate watching Redden, Drury, and Gomez play. They are heartless and gutless. No leadership whatsoever.

    >The team is boring. I find it hard to stay awake watching them.

    >The Prucha situation amazes me. I like Voros but he is not an NHL caliber player. He cannot skate and has hands of stone. The Renney thing with Prucha has become sickening. The poor guys needs to play or be traded where he can get some ice time.

    >I think, if given the chance, Stahl can lug the puck and become more offensive. Maybe not this year and bring it along slowly but I feel that the sky is the limit with him. If they actually have some defensemen next year that are decent, Stahl should become a little more offensive minded. Probably a new coach with a different system as well. I would also give Stahl a letter. There are other teams in the league with young captains, etc.

  70. NON trade ideas on

    I love the fascination with a guy whose team is a loser in Tampa. have these guys not learned from the vet big name guys we have now?

    yeah, let’s trade Staal, AA, Grachev, Henrik, and Fort Knox to Tampa for Vinny and the water he’s going to walk on

  71. Give Stahl an "A" on

    I am brain dead today. I mis-spelled Staal and I have his jersey sitting right next to me. Yikes!

  72. Give Stahl an "A" on

    Obviously I am a Staal fan but how could anyone think of trading him? I think he could be a guy to build the team around for the coming decade.

  73. the problem is trying to carry it in when the other team stands up on the line dump and chase and draw penalties unless they back in then carry it in the problem is our forwards and defence that are trying to gain the zone cantmake a quick decicion on what to do, hence lack of inteligence

  74. Agree with an earlier lobster post. Shoestring should have been in the shoot-out. What’s this crazy obsession with changing to a new system; like it’s magic wand that’s going to change the outcome. We have average talent at best. I agree with Carp on the skill level of our team but maybe in the middle not the lower third of the league. In all honesty, I really wonder how many coaches could get more that 30 wins from this team as it is.???

  75. Yeah Carp, well let’s see what they look like with a new coach before you blame the players.

    Remove that stifling defensive system, remove the bad personnel decisions, and put someone behind the bench that can think on their feet… my guess is that you’ll see a totally different team with that one fix.

    That’s all it will take… remove Renney and the team becomes 25% better immediately. Plus you’ll hear a tremendous sigh of relief from the locker room. Lines will stay together and start to produce, players will play depending on their production and not their nationality or “big & strong-ness”.

    I can’t understand the length of time that it has taken the media and fans to figure out this charlatan, this pretender, this thief. And that goes double for Sather.

  76. I love the fascination with a guy whose team is a loser in Tampa. have these guys not learned from the vet big name guys we have now?

    yeah, let’s trade Staal, AA, Grachev, Henrik, and Fort Knox to Tampa for Vinny and the water he’s going to walk on

    that guy and that team you call losers won the stanley cup in 2004. and he is one of the best forwards in the game

  77. Give Staal an "A" on

    Remove that stifling defensive system, remove the bad personnel decisions, and put someone behind the bench that can think on their feet… my guess is that you’ll see a totally different team with that one fix.

    Rocketnyr is correct, it is time for a change. It is also odd that Renney will change lines like crazy but keep the inept power play together. Plus the fact that he gives so much icetime to Captain loser and no go Gomez amazes me.

  78. Hey Carp I’m not saying this about just you, but doesn’t anyone agree that there is something going on in this locker room. Maybe someone will talk off the record but it sure seems like the players really dislike Renney and his system. Also I think (just an opinion) but the players resent the fact that Jagr, Shannahan, and others were not brought back because they were the ones to keep the coach in check. Meaning they stopped him from implementing the current system they are using. There are just so many comments and stuff that if you piece the post games together that it shows something is going on. Unfortunatly even if we found out this to be true the Pompous Ass Sather wouldn’t do anything anyway.

  79. Give Staal an "A" on

    The shootout was a novelty at first but now it is a cheap circus trick. Terrible way to get points.

  80. All Hail King Henrik on

    I still can’t believe they wasted that performance by Lundqvist last night. Someone has got to score in the shootout. Nicky Z should’ve been the 2nd shooter and then go to Dawes as the 4th, or even better Sjostrom.

    We’re now solely the lowest scoring team in the league at 2.36 GPG. That’s just sad.

    Look at how we compare to the Atlantic.

    PHI: 3.17 GPG 6th
    NJD: 3.02 GPG 8th
    PIT: 2.95 GPG 12th
    NYI: 2.40 GPG 28th
    NYR: 2.36 GPG 30th

  81. Not less then 2 years ago Philly finished last!!!!! With a good GM look what they have accomplished. What do we have to do to get some change around here?

  82. Carp as far as you saying this team is just not that good….how about this? These players were some very good players for the teams in which they came. (Except Redden he was having trouble in Ot before he came here) How does someone like Drury go from where he was to were he is. It’s not all the players. They are not mentally into Renney and his system, I think that much is obvious.

  83. Gomez can carry the puck end to end with the best of them. He can absolutely be a number 1 center. The problem is Renney won’t give him the freedom, or the time within HIS system to be good. Gomez can make the players around him better. He did it in NJ!!!! They are being choked.

  84. Don’t believe those rankings from Hockey’s Future; prospect park wrote a nice rebuttal to it a few months back and the article itself was pretty positive despite the number ranking.

    Also, no to Vinny L. I’m sick of taking other people’s declining stars to come attempt to “save the franchise.” Staal/Dubi/etc. are homegrown and actually wanna be here. Vinny L might have like 5 elite years left. Rangers are very strong at center, it’s scoring wingers they need. Let the team now be as is with a minor tweak or two, sign Tanguay in the offseason for 2-3 years to play with Gomez and Naslund (who’ll be gone after next year anyways), and promote AA and 2-3 of his Wolfpack buddies to play 4th line and be cheap alternatives until there’s some cap sanity.

    This team’s not gonna win the Cup this year; playoffs are likely, and anything else a la 1986 or 1997 is house money. BE PATIENT!

  85. NON trade ideas on

    “that guy and that team you call losers won the stanley cup in 2004. and he is one of the best forwards in the game”

    and the Rangers won the cup in ’94, and Messier was the toast of the town. but five years later,he was just toast.

    Vinny WAS a great player. he is now just a very good player who cannot lift any team by himself.

  86. Joe has become the most annoying guy as a Ranger’s announcer. He has the biggest crush on Staal it seems. He should just quit and be the guys agent. Finally Rick you are the first person to admit this team has no skill, they are slower and less skilled than most teams. I disagree that Drury is a finisher, he is one of the many invisible men on the team. It is time for heads to roll, metaphorically speaking. Sather’s time has passed, as has Renney’s. There needs to be huge wholesale changes with this team. About Dubinsky, with so many other teams having young players putting up goals and points, his output must be better. It is not fair to put tons of pressure on a young guy, but the veterans are invisible and awful, so guys like him and Dawes really need to step up and score goals. It’s a sad state of being for these current New York Rangers.

  87. czechthemout!!!!! on

    Cris F- there are only a few Journeymen players on this team
    Sjo/Betts/Orr/Voros TOM RENNEY!!!!!

    Carp- Have to disagree with you on the talent level of the team.Dubi can move the puck as can Gomez,Z and Naslund.

  88. James Stillman on

    Fellow Rangers fans, stop lying to yourselves, please! Stop saying this team has all the talent to win, and stop perpetually blaming Tom Renney. Yes I will agree completely that I hate his system, and I hope to see him get fired. However, I think he is forced to try and play this stifling system because the players he is stuck with are just so bad. Tons of people were saying all the Rangers moves were addition by subtraction this past summer, Jagr is washed up, so on and so forth, it’s Drury and Gomez’s time. Well, these two players were players who put up some points because they fit into their systems. Drury never impressed me before he was a Ranger, neither did Gomez, but these two sure look awful in Ranger’s blue. Due to the pure lack of offense, the only way they can win is through boring defensive games. In regards to Redden, I hate to say this, but I would rather have Malik on the team than this bum, Malik for Christ’s sake! I hope that these guys prove me wrong, but Dubi, Staal, and the rest of the young cast are not going to develop into stars. They will be nice players but you are delusional to think that the problem is just Renney’s system. Please trade Petr Prucha to a team, so that this guy gets a fair shot. I would love to see him hit the 30 goal mark again, just to rub it into Renney’s face. This team is the epitome of frustration!

  89. My old friend Czech, remember, the idea is to put the puck in the net, all the other stuff means nothing if you can’t do that.

    How are you doing?

  90. All Hail King Henrik on

    I was reading a few articles from The Hockey News, and noticed this interesting, and sad fact:

    Mike Green has scored as many goals as our entire defense combined.

    Mike Green = 21 goals
    Entire NYR defense= 21 goals

    Good job, Sather.

  91. Would anyone like to take this bet??? Renney and Sather do not want to trade Prucha because if he excels on another team they know it will cost them their jobs!!!!

  92. NON trade ideas on

    why come on here and say they have no talent, but Renney must also be fired and trade prucha.

    you can’t have it both ways. if the talent is supposedly not there, and Renney is supposedly FORCED to play a stifling system, then why would you fire him?

    and if prucha is getting a fair deal, then why would you trade him?

    get real. If Prucha has talent,then your basic premise is false. if Renney is fired, then your basic premise that the talent level is the problem is false.

    you can’t have it both ways.

    the real truth is that the Rangers talent level is just above the middle at For., just about the middle on D, and way above the average in goal.

    but the coaching is about as poor as you can get. just look at the PP for the past few years to see that.

    and this is important, Renney LOBBIED for this team. he WANTED a team he could control. he wanted a vanilla locker room.

    now that things have gone south, that will change.

    anyhow, does that mean this team is LOADED with talent? no

    does that mean there is no talent? no

    it means this team has enough talent in the eastern conference to finish decently with a decent coach and system and PP

    since you can’t easily get rid of the players, why not do as Ott, Fla, Wash, Chi, etc etc have done. improve first by a coaching change. see how it goes, and THEN try to get rid of players who are still not responding to a better system and coach.

  93. Fruity Cupcake on

    When someone makes “Free Prucha” t-shirts, post a link here so I can buy one. In the meantime, I may just tape it on to the back of my Prucha t-shirt and wear it to my next game.

    Thank you and enjoy tomorrow’s game. With Dilbury. On the Nothin But Crosby network.

  94. Not sure if this was mentioned already or not, but great article by EJ Hradek of ESPN regarding Sather sucking so bad.

    Carp, keep up the great work.
    On a side note, Joe Michelette (sp?) needs to go. He is becoming the Chico Resch of the Rangers broadcast booth. Dave Maloney is the only color guy in the area that has any balls when it comes to speaking his mind. Sam and Dave would be a much better TV combo in my opinion.

  95. Steve Sommers on 660fan has been giving Prucka some air time responding to a Renney quote that Prucha “wears down”

  96. Philly Flowers are a fun team to watch, just like Boston. That’s actual Hockey, unlike what we have to watch, which is aboot a total of 5-6 mins of excitement, and 55-54 mins of boring, wasted minutes where you could have been doing something better, like getting drunk, watching Cats fight, getting
    , or what ever people do at the end of the week.

    Just like i said the other day, Hank sucks on a night, and gives up a load of goals, and Nyr scores a bunch of goals, then Hank is amazing and barely gives up any, and Nyr cant give him any goals. Pains me to watch.

    Who knows, maybe we can trade Gomez for Jay-Bo, we’ll obviously have to sweeten the pot, but Gomer is a start, cause supposedly they need a natural number 1 center.

    Let’s call Gomer what he is, a god damn waste. Because of that loser, and his quiet retard side kick Drury, they got Jags out of NY. This team blows, and that’s all there is to it.

    Id be surprised if they sneak into the playoffs, and even more surprised if they win a round, cause odd’s are, they’re facing either the Devs, Bruins, or Caps, and i don’t see them beating any of those teams. Not even the Habs, who is another possibility. I cant say anything aboot the Flowers yet, because we haven’t played them since the 4th game of the year, and you never know, maybe we’ll “own” them, or not. Hank usually blows against these guys, so who knows.

  97. Rick, I think this the 2nd time I asked. What do you think of the possibility of Montreal or Philly picking up Avery on re-entry.

  98. I think Renney has worn down and should sit in the stands for some games too; maybe the rest of the season. I’m tired of listening to the same rhetoric game after game.

  99. Cynar,to the contrary. Hate to tell you this but there aren’t too many takers on Prucha’s 1.6 million salary

  100. NON trade ideas on

    Dolan needs to go, and Sather needs to go.

    but, we all know they AIN’T goin’ anywhere anytime soon.

    so Hradek is just being an unrealistic fool, repeating the same old tired mantra with almost zero chance of it happening.

    he is another Renney lover who is more concerned about a “nice guy” giving him access than reporting on the real problem with the “nice guy”

  101. Who Needs Lohan on

    Hey all, sorry I’ve been MIA lately, combination of starting a new business and having little to say about the NYR. Carp, you dont know me yet but I consider myself a regular on this blog. I must say, with no disrespect to Sam, but you are doing 10 times better with this blog. You actually read what we say, instead of spewing some cowardly lines about practice or whatever Sam used to talk about. You actually say what many of us are feeling.

    On the NYR front, can you say anything but zzzzzzzzzzzzz? Im not talkin Zherdev, im talking boring effin hockey. I honestly can say like some have said he that I dont look forward to the games anymore. I barely even cheer for this team. At the same time I really dont blame the players. I blame Renney almost entirely. ie Redden. The D men in general are stifled in this 1-2-2 system. If you have 1-2-2 and you are the last 2 in that equation, that means you have no ability to be creative offensively. Redden has never been accused of being a good stay at home D-man. Hence with no ability to be offensive in the system he just gets to do what he does poorly with no offense. Granted he sucks, but he sucks more in this system.
    I think you can make similar cases for others like a Gomez or Drury. This trap 1-2-2 or whatever you want to call it is boring to watch, it allows the other team to dictate the play, and with less time in the offensive zone it puts even more pressure on our goalie and our already shaky D-men. Only 14 first period leads……if that doesnt show you that our team is passive I dont know what does. Passive hockey leads to less emotion which leads to frustrated bad boring hockey.
    My point….I hate Renney. Id rather have lunch with that Bishop who said the Holocaust never happened than Tom Renney and I am a Jew. That says a lot no? This team sucks the life outta you almost as much as looking at his shirt and tie combo did last night!

  102. Think of it this way. If they didn’t pick him up on the way down, why pick him up on the way up? Why? because even though you picked him up, you would’ve assigned him to your AHL team. Then you had to call him up again, with the possibility of him getting picked up again. Why is that bad? because even though he didn’t play a game for you, you still have to pay him since you picked him up. Hence, 3 different teams pay him. This is why i think we should trade a 5th round pick to Dallas for him.

  103. Did the Rangers not practice today, just curious to see if Tom the Tinkerer clicked yet again on the line combo adjuster for the lines tomorrow.

  104. Putting this team’s demise on a lack of skill, is fine, except it also exonerates the coaching staff, the passive / offense-last game plan, the GM, and the owner. The team needs a personnel upgrade, in some spots, yes, starting with busts Kalinin, Redden, journeyman Reitz (who is blocking three better young D’s at Hartford); and the unrelenting Gomez-Drury-Voros, et al, connection. HOWEVER, the real housecleaning should start at the top and sweep out the owner, GM, coach, and the coach’s staff.

    If I were Donald Trump II, with a couple billion dollars or so to invest/throw around, I would buy the Rangers and divorce them from the MSG Corporation, toute de suite, and build my own hockey palace, maybe where the Televison City blueprint was targeted. Playing second fiddle to the G.D. New York Knicks, with their idiot “rapper panties” personna, since 1946, is wearing thin. Remember, the Rangers were founded in 1926, and it’s the Knicks who should be treated like the little step-brother. Get a divorce from MSG, Rangers, then putting a contending hockey team on the ice will not be such an uphill battle, on and off the ice.

  105. Carp

    It really bugs me when people constant question the actual talent of this team. Let’s look at the Panthers as an example of why this idea of this team being untalented is ridiculous…

    Lets compare their top 10 returning players (based on production this season) from last season.

    1)Weiss, This season on pace for 56 pts, last season scored 42
    2)Booth, This season on pace for 55 pts, last season scored 40
    3)Horton, This season on pace for 53 pts, last season scored 62
    4)JBo, This season on pace for 44 pts, last season scored 37
    5)Campbell, This season on pace for 40 pts, last season scored 18
    6)Dvorak, This season on pace for 36 pts, last season scored 17
    7)Zednik, This season on pace for 37 pts, last season scored 26
    8)Peltonen, This season on pace for 33 pts, last season scored 20
    9)Kreps, This season on pace for 21 pts, last season scored 25
    10)Skrastins, This season on pace for 18 pts, last season scored 5

    It’s interesting, of the 10 best players returning from last seasons team, only 2 are on pace to have worse seasons. After losing their best player (By far and away) in Jokinen, they somehow were able to get more talented magically overnight. collectively this group, the exact same players from last season, added 101 points while adding ZERO players, count em, ZERO players on the forward line of consequence.

    The only difference here, is the coach. THATS IT.

    The team went from 22nd in the NHL in goals per game, lost Ollie Jokinen, and jumped up to 15th in the NHL this season.

    Coaching, its important.

  106. I think carrying the puck up the ice is a big problem for the Rangers. The problem is they try to do it too much. When you look at Detroit or San Jose’s breakout, they routinely make 3, 4, 5 crisp and clean passes moving through the neutral zone. All to moving targets. Usually to the effect of causing a defender to change directions, slow down, shift his body weight; all to make holes for the following pass recipient to skate through. Unfortunately, the Rangers passing skills resemble Brett Favre more than Chad Pennington. Missed and fumbled passes cause them to lose that momentum and flow making them the ones who have to change directions, slow down, shift their body weight; all to the effect letting the defense get better position on them and ultimately ruining that rush.

    Dubinsky is pretty good from the blue line in. Love hius board work. Callahan is pretty good in the neutral zone and on the forecheck. Gomez is pretty good from our goal line to center ice. I’m not suggesting a line here but they need to take smaller steps when moving the puck up instead of going for that homerun pass all the time a la Gomez end to end.

  107. try these lines Tom…

    Pearn-Henrik-the trainer




    ’cause the 4th line is Tom’s favorite, and can never change

    on D..






  108. James Stillman on

    Hey friend (Non trade ideas) I dont think you understand what I meant. I think that Renney needs to be fired, and I think players need to be traded, and this team be in re-build mode. If Renney lobbied for this team, well he should definitely be one of the people to take the fall for this team. Sather MUST go as well. I think that it is not exactly Renney’s system that is the problem, but the players. Again both are at fault. The system is very boring, but with the impotent offense, it is the only chance the Rangers have at winning games. In regards to Prucha, I said he has not been given a fair shake and he has no confidence. I am saying I hope he gets traded to a team who does actually give him a fair shake, and I’d love to see him thrive on that team.

  109. I think Avery has kind of expressed that he only wants to play for the Rangers. But I also think a team might claim him and then try to trade him to us. Kind of a prick move, but this is a prick world. What can you really do about it, right?

  110. NON trade ideas on

    friend, they were 10-2-1 to start the season with that supposed lack of talent. best start in Ranger history. and then after a couple of losses in Nov Renney started pulling them back, changing the system into a passive hangback trap that has made them a boring bunch of underachievers.

    you don’t go 10-2-1 with no talent.

    Renney is the main culprit, HE changed the winning formula. HE benched Prucha for no reason.

    I put the blame right where it belongs.



    Mike Nev, thanks for that link! Funniest line in there, and it makes me think some of these writers (not you Rick lol) read blogs to get funny lines…such as this:

    “Rangers owner Jim Dolan has long had some sort of man-crush on Sather. So Slats likely isn’t going anywhere. In the current economic environment, his job security is rare.”

    cakewalk…been praying for new ownership for years! that is the only way we’ll be freed from this cornucopia of ineptitude!

  113. At the Wolf Pack game…
    After 1, Avery looking prettygood. Hustling every shift, nice passes, good scoring chance. And stirring up some things already.

  114. mikey mcdick section 312 on

    i still dont see how callahans so goal was counted. I thought that if the puck hits the post and rolls forward the play is stopped and puck is dead..

  115. I’m sorry but the Rangers don’t really have any journeyman players; Betts has played for all of two NHL organizations and got a cup of coffee with the Flames, ditto with Sjo, Voros has been in three organizations, and Orr has been in all of two.

    A journeyman is someone like a Jason Krog or Jeff Taffe. If anything, J.S. Gigure and Martin St. Louis are more journeyman than anyone on the Rangers as they were given up on by multiple organizations when they were young. Heck, hasn’t Shanny played for like 5 clubs?

  116. loneranger, I don’t know if anybody will go for Avery but I did hear almost two weeks ago the Flyers were interested. They could get him for half price through re-entry waivers. The thing that scares many teams away (maybe, just maybe, the Rangers too) is that you get the last three years of Avery’s contract. Even at $1.9, that’s a cap hit for a team topped out and needing to sign some of its own young free agents this summer. And what if Avery is a jackass again? Then you buy him out at 2/3 and that counts against the cap, too.

  117. Carp –

    Bang on correct. This team is NOT talented – there is nobody to carry the puck, there is nobody who can carry the load at point. PP is merely a micro-cosam of the entire situation here: NO TALENT

    It all starts with Dolan –

    Prucha Should be Starting – What has it accomplished by not playing Prucha? Look at the plus/minus situation

    I still say this is NOT RENNY – this is Dolan and Sather – they have assembled the team – and now they expect Renny to put it all together – he does a great job given what he has in my estimation

  118. No way Avery goes to Montreal; they hate him up there after he trashed French Canadian players.

    A couple of questions to older Rangers fans here after talking with some friends during last night’s drinking debauchery;

    1. Was the scoreboard in Led Zeppelin’s The Song Remains The Same the same scoreboard all the way through 2007?

    2. What were some of the songs the Rangers used to come out to at the start of periods? I’m talking like 70s/80s. I remember some Bowie song from 05-06 and Down by 311 in the mid 90s. I heard it was VH’s Dance The Night Away at some point to.

    3. When did the modern organ come into MSG that takes contemporary songs and at the end switches to “Here We Go Rangers….”? I’ve always remembered it since 89-90 but after watching the 79 and 86 games during the lockout, they still seem to have had the really old school MLB-style organ.


    been listening to the wolfpack / moose game, and its just funny to hear some in the crown changing AVERY AVERY. Whenever this announcer says Parenteau it sounds as if he’s saying parental. Kinda ironic with Mr. Sloppy Seconds ( still too damned funny) on the ice!

  120. jerkins perkins(mike in ia) on

    guys i didnt wanna do this, but i know the true identity of batman and robin. its chris drury and wade redden. its tough fighting crime all the time and then playing 82 games of hockey a year. give them a break ok. i mean they are the gruesome 2some. the coked crusader and manboy blunder. ohh the adventures buttman and throbbin must have.

  121. Wash Mike Green sets the record for Dmen. a goal in 8 straight games.

    Pens and Canes are helping the Rangers by blowing games.

  122. Haha, jerkins, pretty good, although Drury doesn’t have the personality to be Batman which leads me to believe that Ron Dugauy is actually Batman.

    If Redden were a superhero, he’d be Tony Stark/Iron Man; a millionaire who has too much money and nothing to do with it other than make cool high tech machines and fight evildoers.

    Honestly, if you watch the original six Star Trek movies, Spock shows more emotion in any one of them than these two put together.

  123. I don’t know that I would say this team isn’t offensively talented but rather just not the right mix. There really isn’t one guy who has a history of consistently burying the puck in the net and being a goal machine for a team.

    I guess you could argue Naslund but he’s at the sunset of his career and his numbers are on the decline. Zherdev looks to me too much like Kovalev, one year he beats everyone and scores a ton – the next, the puck bounces funny or his moves don’t work and he scores 10-15 less, ie volatile.

    Middle of the road for team scoring the last few years has been about 230 goals. If you had asked me at the start of the season how many goals I thought everyone would have scored it would have probably looked like this –

    Drury 25
    Gomez 18
    Dubinsky 20
    Zherdev 30
    Naslund 25
    Dawes 20
    Callahan 15
    Voros/Prucha 5/15
    Korpikoski 10
    Betts/Sjoe/Orr 15

    Roszival 10
    Redden 10
    Mara 5
    Girardi 5
    Staal 5
    Kalin 2

    That would get you to about 235 goals, includes improvements in the young guys and basically assumes no one has a bad year. Its hard for me to imagine anyone putting up much higher numbers than the above even with the most offensively minded system around based on the composition of the team.

    I would argue that bunch of these guys have good offensive skills but there just hasn’t been synergy with other players. A few thoughts on specific players

    Gomez – great puck carrying but its wasted without someone who can match the speed and bury the puck.
    Drury – good nose for the net and just blasting the puck, wasted without a wing who can drive to it and generate a rebound.
    Redden – this controversial but I think Redden is pretty offensive minded (not an endorsement of his defense) but there is no Heatley, Alfredsson or Spezza for him to make plays with

  124. Rangers scored 213 goals last year ( includes 1 goal for each Shootout win)

    Renney had these 13 Forwards and averaged 2.5 GPG
    Think about it
    Jagr, Straka, Shanahan, Avery, Prucha, Drury, Gomez, Cally, Dubi, Dawes, Betts, Sjo, Orr

  125. czechthemout!!!!! on


    I’m doing great my friend,thank you for asking.Isn’t it nice to see that what we’ve been saying about Renney for the last two years is finally catching on? I hope the pressure continues to build to get rid of this charlatin(sp) so many of the Renneyaide drinkers call a coach.

  126. jerkins perkins(mike in ia) on

    i know why rangers suck. its mike pelinos fault for not punchin pearn out before he could suggest getting redden. damn u pelino. its all ur fault. and dont u think youre sh*% dont stink mr benoit allaire!. ur next bud


  127. Did anyone listen to the interview of the Florida player (may have been Campbell) after the 2nd? He said something to the effect that the Panthers recognize that they’re not the most talented team in the world, so they commit to working hard, skating hard and forechecking. We can debate the level of talent we have here, Carp, but isn’t that attitude really what it’s all about?

    This, I think, is what posters here like Ford and Voice of Reason are talking about above. Other teams may have more talent, but how the heck can we even make a fair assessment of ours with the stranglehold Renney puts on these players? How do we know how good a Zherdev-Naslund combo could be if he doesn’t give them a legitimate chance to play together? Who knows what our PP might do if the approach was to stress more movement instead of parking a lug like Voros in front of the net? Give us a chance to see what this team could accomplish if turned loose to bring the pressure, real pressure, in the opposition end, the way San Jose does. You might discover, Carp, that we’re better than you think.

  128. Okay, “journeymen” was the wrong phrase. I meant “role players.” Mediocre talents, who excelled when their linemates were talented, but who were never (nor are now) truly elite.

    Why does Dubi get so much love? He’s had a lot of time to grow and excel and he really hasn’t. Blame it on Renney all you like, but I suspect if he was a great player in the making, we’d be seeing more from him regardless. I’d love him to be the next badass Captain, who can hit, move the puck, and finish. Love to be proved wrong, but he needs to step up.

  129. jerkins perkins(mike in ia) on

    dont wuckin furry guys redden will score 10. it may take 4 more years but it’ll happen. hey at least hes still young and has time to develop his shot

  130. jerkins perkins(mike in ia) on

    throwaway nas and z are both horrible defensively. yea you’ll score a few more and then give up a lot more too

  131. jerkins perkins(mike in ia) on

    chris- right on all fronts. doobs has zherdev on his wing and should be doin more but i think he’ll be alright in time. just needs to get out of that renny system

  132. LINDA –

    Prayer doesn’t work, as regards new management or anything else. They were praying for a miracle on the deck of the Titanic, too. What works is a BOYCOTT, such as upwards of 10,000 people with tickets not attending any home games for one month. Such as TV ratings plunging through the basement. Such as NO ONE buying a New York Rangers jacket or jersey for the rest of the season. That would get plenty of attention at the upper management level. And surely get a few empty heads rolling, starting with the coach.

    Regrettably, we complain, but do nothing to put some muscle behind our complaints. How about a Ranger Fan Club UNION, designed to hit the team financially, when the consensus is so clear as to what needs to be done. I would be willing to merely follow the team on the radio, and nothing else, for the rest of the season, or until the badly needed shake-up comes to pass.

  133. Rick I know what you’re saying and no, I doubt anyone will get to those numbers. Unfortunately for the Rangers, the high paying guys aren’t making those around them better on either side of the puck.

    I would add, you can’t base contracts solely on goals. A guy like Joe Thornton will only score 20 goals this year but is well worth his contract.

  134. Just listened to Gretzky talking about the Coyotes. He was talking about how as a player he was the highest paid and had the highest expectations on him. Now as a coach, he said he doesn’t care if the young guys make mistakes, but he fully expects the highest paid guys on his team to be the best players and to take the pressure — no excuses.

  135. onecupin67years on

    Mr. Carp,
    I was wondering what the rangers record is under the dolan era and cablevision vs, when Gutkowski was garden pres and viacom owned the rangers during the late 80’s to the 94 cup?

  136. Carp- Have it on pretty good source that even the players in Ottawa noticed the drastic slip in Redden’s gme over the last year. And one particular guy whose # begins with 1 end end with 5 actually was laughing his ass off when he heard of the contract that Redden got from us. How can Sather and Mgt not get called out on this to their faces by the media? While we’re at it, why hasnt Renny been questioned about REPEATEDLY putting DRU-GOOBER-NASLUND along with REDDEN out at every single important juncture of the game (ie 5-3 pp) when its woefully obvious that those 4 are the MOST responsible for the lack of production on this team? They SUCK. How much longer do they have to be pathetic out there before Renny gets it? whole season? maybe in 3 years????

  137. Mike A. – I did go to alot of games back in late 80s up until 1995, and almost every playoff game. In those days (I sound like my grandfather talkin …hehe), NYR would have one song that was like their theme to the playoffs….

    I remember them playing Starships “Nothings Gonna Stop Us Now” in 87-88 and also they used to play Poison’s “Ride the Wind” in the early 90’s…..Prior to the opening face off and when they came back to the ice after 1st and 2nd period…..

    Ofcourse, Renney’s them song to Pruchs this year is Judas Priest’s “You’ve got another thing coming!”

  138. how many times has Redden, Drury, Gomez, any bigshot been scratched to send a bigtime message?


    Renney is so full of bs. he talks about accountability, but does not walk the talk.

    I don’t blame the young players one bit for getting the wrong message from renney. they know they cannot even breathe a mistake, but the multi millionaires can screw up mightily ,and go right back out on the next shift like nuthin’ ever happened.

    Renney IS the problem.

    all you have to do is look at Ott lately, and their coaching change, not to mention Wash last year, and many others, to see the obvious correlation to getting the right coach, and winning.

    it’s not just the system. that is part of it. but it is also the mismanagement of players from an accountability standpoint.

    just ask Prucha if Renney is getting the most out of his players.

  139. Forcrissakes,playPrucha! on

    Excellent post! I said the same exact thing but different words earlier today in this thread.

  140. Forcrissakes,playPrucha! on

    dg you are right, too. Redden plays lazy and never gets benched. He’s actually rewarded with almost 30 minutes of ice time every game AND PP time. So why should he even suspect he’s doing something wrong when his boss is using him like everything is fine. The same with all our big-contract players.

  141. Leetch is the man on

    Im gonna tell you that Sather calls the shots and tells Renney who to play. Since he signed those big name contract such as Gomer Drury Redden and Rozy he wants them to play. Instead of benching them he plays them more when they are bad to see if they can turn around their game. He just doesnt realize they were never that good and he fuked up and cant admit it.

  142. Forcrissakes,playPrucha!: Redden has sucked but he’s not playing 30 minutes a night, don’t make it worse than it is!

  143. jimmy February 15th, 2009 at 1:59 am

    Forcrissakes,playPrucha!: Redden has sucked but he’s not playing 30 minutes a night, don’t make it worse than it is!

    28:19, 27:09, 24:02. Those are Redden’s ice time for the last 3 games. He may not be playing 30 minutes a night, but he’s averaging around 25 recently, which given his play, is downright criminal. However, the last two include OT which adds a couple minutes, but the sad thing is the past two games he has led the team ice time and was 2nd in the other.

  144. Ok, I’ve been saying for two years now to fire Renney.Here are the facts as I see it after watching this pathetic offensive team the last two years,with NO power play in sight.
    #1-Sather is NOT going to fire Renney no matter how bad things get.
    #2-We are stuck with Redden,Kilenin,Voros,Rosival.No one is gonna take their contracts.
    #3-We are only making it to the 2nd round IF EVERY BRAKE comes our way.
    #4-Both Renney and Sather WILL BE GONE AFTER and only after this season is over.

    So hang in there Ranger fans we only have 3 months to go for this 2nd rate nightmare to be over.

    Back me up on this Carp what do ya think?

  145. Oh man…..that article by Larry Brooks is Pulitzer Prize worthy for us NY Rangers fans….

    I wonder if Redden will get to read that,,,,In other words, do pro athletes find out about these articles and actually read them? I hope he does because maybe Redden will break out the spoon and get some sort of boost

  146. Get Bowmeester!!!! He is the blue line answer

    Prucha, Kalinen, Redden (a mistake), Dawes, Voros are all expendable. Give them a minor leaguer and a draft pick,

    Get a “go to guy” – Gaborik is young.,

  147. Bowmeester would cost us at least few 1st round draft picks,and two of our young guys.I would think Stall,and Dubinski, and then Florida would still not do it.
    Would you if you were them? I didn’t think so.

  148. I would not give up Staal and Dubinsky straight up for J-Bo….let alone throwing in 2 first rounders….

    J-Bo is def. good….But he a step up from Rozy…If Rozy played with more confidence, we would have less to worry about on the blue line

  149. They’re a team right in the middle of the playoff hunt now, too. He’s really on the border now.

  150. Avery needs to be called up. We need a disturbance. Rangers hockey sucks, at least Avery was entertaining. He seems to be a changed person, he knows hes screwed if he doesn’t keep his act together now. Who knew they’d SUSPEND him for saying mean things? He does now! Hes gotta be called up asap, but i STILL bet another team will grab him just to say why not, I dont care about the deal thats on the table.

  151. That Avery deal is no slam dunk. I bet another team picks him up. I could see Sather making a trade with Dallas. The Stars are doing very well right now and really need a PP QB. I bet Sather makes a trade involving Redden/ Rozi for Avery. Most likely Rozi.

  152. The vacuum that Larry Brooks is screaming into is an embarrassment to the Rangers, The NHL and New York….If Renney is protecting Sather ( and I highly doubt Tom and Perry didnt twist Sathers arm to get Redden by the way) then the whole NYR management should be fired en masse….If Sather forced Redden on Renney both in aquiring him and playing him for half of every game then Slats alone should be fired

  153. Cwgatti
    Any chance of Dallas wanting Redden or Rozi in a deal I beleive went out the window in that 10-2 fact other than the Hank-Staal-Dubi-Zherdev quandrant I cant see any Ranger they would want without giving up a #1 or more….

    sickening team

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