New lines at practice


First up, some line changes because I know you like the news.

Chris Drury-Scott Gomez-Markus Naslund

Fredrik Sjostrom-Nigel Dawes-Lauri Korpikoski

Ryan Callahan-Brandon Dubinsky-Nikolai Zherdev

Colton Orr-Blair Betts-Aaron Voros

Dmitri Kalinin worked out on the bike and coach Tom Renney said he practiced briefly but tired out soon. Paul Mara shaved his beard and was back on the ice, as was goalie Henrik Lundqvist.

Sean Avery should pass through waivers by tomorrow morning at 11 a.m. Dallas time. He needs to pass a physical and will be assigned to an AHL team. Since Dallas doesn’t have an affiliate, Avery could go anywhere. He could be heading for, say, Hartford.

Although the Rangers cannot address a player that belongs to another team, Chris Drury did say he thought players in the league would give Avery another chance. He never had the reputation of being a great teammate, but Drury compared Avery’s anger management experience to going through treatment for alcohol abuse.

Lundqvist was a little wary of getting too excited about a player who might not be in a Rangers uniform again.

“He has a history but we’ll see,” Lundqvist said. “He’s a great guy when he wants to be and he’s a great player when he wants to be.”

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  1. howyagonnatellme on

    We’re dead set on making Voros an NHLer, aren’t we Tom? Amazing how he’ll do anything not to give Prucha a shot.

    Sjostrom… time to shine, buddy. Show us if you belong outside the fourth line. I think Sjo might have the talent to play on a third line (probably not second, but this is the Rangers we’re talking about). He’s very quick, that should be a hardworking line.

    But I hope that’s a typo and KORPI will be centering Dawes and Sjo.

    Great to see Drury on the wing with Gomez, since that has NEVER worked the millions of times it was tried, and continues to not work on the powerplay.

  2. Here we go again. Another blog post about line combos, locker room cancer Avery returning — and yet not a single mention of this disastrous coach and the need for him to go.

    I think it’s fair to say that you guys in the media care more about maintaining your press credentials and access to the team than actually doing your jobs.

    Your coverage and analysis of the team has become a bigger joke than Barack Obama’s tax-cheating cabinet picks.

  3. It’s so sad that this moron plays some of these guys over Prucha. It’s pathetic it doesn’t make sense.

  4. I think it’s fair to say that Callahan for all his heart is “wearing down” much as Renney claims is true of Prucha.

    This endless scrambling of lines is simply rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic —– until and unless the team becomes committed to hunting the puck, forcing the play, hounding the opposing D into mistakes, and letting the chips fall where they may.

    After all they’re already giving up glorious scoring chances in this genius “defense first” scheme. It’s time to generate the same in the other guys’ end.

  5. Jane,

    Any mention of Prucha by Renney?

    You just have to get him back in the lineup! Voros is awful. Brings very little.


  6. I think the dawes sjo korp is the 3rd line. no way sjo gets more minutes than doobs or nicky again. especially not after the last 3 games zherdev has scored 2 of the incredible 3 goals we scored. even if they were from behind the frickin net. god hes got a great shot but scores 2 dinky ones. after about 10 nice high slot wristers on lehtonen other game. anyway how is voros still playing?? i cant figure out how renny is doin this to prucha, i mean remember that game where he got the tying goal against the isles and the prucha chants started. that was it man, he got this crowd alive and then followed it up with a great set up to korpi in ottawa. hes done more in those 2 games than voros big dumbass has done all season, unless renny has guys practicing their shot and has painted a bullseye on his ass, maybe they’ll start scorin again. i admit i loved voros when the seasonb started but he hasnt played well enough especially over prucha. if voros has to play, throw dawes out then. dawes has quickly become one of the dullest players on this team and thats hard to do. he used to throw his shoulder up and knock guys on their ass but havent sen him do that for awhile. this team is so lucky they stayed healthy all season. but then again maybe an injury to a voros or dawes would be great oppurtunity for AA to play some more

  7. if you love a team enough you are hoping like I am that they lose tomorrow vs the devils so renny can get fired.

    is it the players? maybe
    is it the system more than likely.
    Renny has lost this team and it started in november.

    you have to find out if it players by changing a coach who clearly does not have a system that produces goals

  8. Hey …great idea let’s change up the lines…lol. I hope to see a better effort tomorrow night.

  9. Greg,

    Voros brings very little? Are you serious? Very little? He brings nothing! He can’t skate well enough to effectively hit anyone, he can’t get himself into the play on the rush, he doesn’t stick up for his teammates, this guy is dead weight!

  10. What is especially interesting is that juggling lines – yet again, and sitting Prucha – yet again, is the “response” to the drubbing in Dallas. My God, what a passive, stick-in-the-mud organization. Imagine if George Steinbrenner owned this franchise! Sather, Renney, and the Kalinin-Rozsival-Redden-Gomey-Drury-Voros, et al, would be G-O-N-E, but not with Dolan at the helm. Can Dolan spell R-A-N-G-E-R-S? Does Dolan know he owns this team? Has Dolan seen a Ranger game in the last five years? I really want to know why Dolan’s invisible GM, and grossly incompetent coach are still living and employed in New York?

  11. “Greg February 8th, 2009 at 12:35 pm


    Any mention of Prucha by Renney?

    You just have to get him back in the lineup! Voros is awful. Brings very little.


    havent you been here for the past two weeks? people go in and out of the line up and Renny wont put Prucha in.. clearly he has something against him and unfortunately not many in the media are to scared to call him out on this. you have minor leaugers and guys getting paid half his salary who cant produce going in the lineup and he doesnt get a shot as a former 30 and 20 goal scorer

  12. 0necupin67years on

    renney could hire an M.I.T. professor to compute line changes and nothing will change .
    The problems are the coach, GM and players.
    Instead of driving the players nuts with these line changes ,just stick to something ,but wavering is indecisiveness which is a major sign of weakness.
    Play the players out of position ,if he’s that desperate.

  13. yeah, can we please get a better explanation of why prucha doesn’t play? the wearing down excuse is BS. cally plays all the time and nobody worries about him wearing down. put voros on the bench please.

    when prucha is on the ice there is excitement and aggressive play. people believe there is actually a chance the rangers might (god forbid) forecheck or get a scoring chance.

    when voros is on the ice we all hold our breathe and hope he doesn’t cost the team a goal or take a penalty

  14. a casual observer on

    Voros must have gotten hold of the incriminating pictures that Hossa had all that time.
    I understand Tom’s reasoning for having Voros in and Prucha out. Prucha is small and works hard and will wear down. Voros works at half speed so he should have alot left in the tank for the first and only round of playoffs we see.{sarcasm}

  15. yea really changin these lines around again is pretty comical at this point. its even funny when after that last game we wait a day and this is all the news thats come out of it. even more funny is voros is still playin. renny is gonna screw with the 1 good line he has left and put the cancer on it. not like it matters its just funny that its all renny can come up with. changing lines. what does he expect from this? load the top line up and now the other 3 are left with a lot to be desired. maybe sjo can do somethin up playin with dawes and korp but doubtful.

  16. 0necupin67years on

    Prucha should start bitching and insist on being traded , let him go through waivers and see who picks him up, maybe he’ll land in the finals and actually play.
    Sometimes being too quiet you only screw yourself.

  17. Phil, what would you suggest the media do? He’s the coach, and he will be the coach until Sather and Dolan decide he’s not the coach. Should we just stop covering the team, stop asking him questions, stop treating him like the coach?

    Please give us the journalistic education we so obviously lack.

  18. Renney’s reasoning regarding playing Prucha is total BS! Come out and say you don’t like the guy instead of this “wearing down” crap. It doesn’t make any sense. Calling up Anisimov before he’s ready and playing Voros while you have a guy practically begging to play is just plain stupid. There is no accountability on this team. Hell, bench Gomez a game rather than Prucha and I bet it would wake a lot of people up.

  19. nice job rick. its ridicolous that even you guys are getting complaints because the rangers suck. aint your fault

  20. They tried Drury with Gomez & Nasland before and they didn’t do much, but they haven’t done much with anyone else. Drury is a good play maker and is responsible defensively, That might be a good line given a chance.
    Sjostrom, Dawes, Korpikoski, has scoreing potental, but they are rookies and will be making mistakes. they will be fast though. Dobinski’s line we’ve seen before, and the forth line is right were Voros should be. I would like to not see them as often as we have been.
    I still believe Avery is a hard nosed tough player, that can make smart plays. I don’t like all the bull that is part of that show. tone down the crap show he would be an asset, with it not so much.
    This team is young and even with it’s flaws is better that it has shown so far this season, but unless it gets it’s act together soon they might not make the playoffs. There is some good talent waiting in the wings though, as long as Sather dosen’t trade them trying to make himself look good. I have been a Ranger fan for over forty years, so I have learned to be patient. I have seen it a lot worse than this.

  21. I like the Call-Dubi-Nicky Z line. Z can do all of his dipsy doodling and Cally can crash the net. MAYBE, just maybe this line will be good.

    I don’t know about that 3rd line at all. To succeed, Dawes has to let the other two get him the puck and just shoot and ask questions later.

  22. What do you want Carp, and others to ask Renney, so Tom when do you think you will be fired? I mean we all asked Carp to ask about Prucha, and he did, and he got Renney to tell him why he doesn’t play.

    This from Gross

    Ryan Callahan-Brandon Dubinsky-Nikolai Zherdev (Petr Prucha was practicing with this line, too)

    So we all know none of those guys is coming out of the lineup for tomorrow, and I don’t think they should so Renney should just say Prucha is a scratch.

  23. little green men on

    Rick asked Renney some good questions, you can only probe so far though. Otherwise he would be on the outside looking in (like Phil).

  24. if the rumors are true and the NYR are looking to replace renney, why not do it immediately? why wait for another 1-3 games to pass? the players are not stupid and know change is coming, do you think they are going to play for anything but losses or play for renney’s job security over the next couple of games? i just dont see it happening.

    i know sather is a moron, but jeez lets start making some changes. please.

  25. 0necupin67years on

    The onus is on Sather, Dolan and the coaches who seem to make themselves scarce to the press, I think the press knows how to ask questions better than we do which elicit a response, but when coaches give a quasi legitimate press conference after a loss and walk out of clubhouse , sather and dolan away on a sabatical , you ask the players and they don’t want to say the truth. The rest is speculation.But the truth is this team is trouble , a win here and there take a little pressure off , making the playoffs takes a little pressure off,a few more losses and things have to be addressed.

  26. I proud of Renney…

    he’s come up with another new combination that looks like it has no chance of success.

    Do you know how hard that is to do with 20 something players, over and over again throught the course of an entire season?


  27. “I’m”

    (How can you spell the very first word of a post wrong when it only has two letters in it?!!)

    Jeez that 10-2 thing really got to me.

  28. 1. Does Gomez really deserve first line minutes after Dallas?

    2. Petr Prucha didn’t wear down the first season here, or the second, so why do we say that he must be “wearing down” now. Our team has no energy without him.

    Wasn’t it the great Joe Mich and Sam Rosen at the beginning of the season talking about how he was the most in shape player? So how does he wear down so quickly?

    3. Voros should just replace Orr. Orr does not go to the defense of any of his linemates right away. Instead of suckerpunching Ott when it was too late, he should have done it early.

    4. Why are Dubs, Cally, and Z third liners? I can see that line working out well.

    5. Korpedo, Dawes, and Shoes…I see this line falling apart early.

    6. IS there any hope of Gomez working on his shot? Has he ever scored a goal outside of 15 feet?

    7. When is Drury going to step up and be the Captain of this team? When is Drury going to be Clutch for this team? Isnt that why we picked him up?

    8. Why would Mara shave his beard? Whos going to be the lumberjack on the team now?

    9.Who is going to be playing defense for our team the next few games? I couldnt get a good assessment of defensemen against Dallas because they all sucked

    These are the tweaks to Renneys lineup that Id like to see.

  29. do you guys also realize since tom game is on versus we will not have the luxury of seeing the post game press conf like we see on msg. so all the beat writers get another pass. rick its time to get tough. tell your boy zipay that as well. i am sick of this crap.

  30. How bout some accountability Tom? huh…how bout Gomez sits a game, as well as Redden, and Drury.
    The third line should be the first and Anisimov should be called up to take Dawes’s spot.

    the Third line looks good and Voros on the 4th…what took so long?

    Anyone thinking Avery riding in as the Obama/savior/messiah of this team is just crazy. I have a funny feeling that this time its gonna backfire. Remember the players who kept that moron in check are playing for the Debbies and in Russia…so…

  31. mara is one of the few guys who has played with an edge to his game and hes paul bunyon. he cant shave the beard off he’ll lose his strength

  32. Staal Wart,
    Would you rather see this team go down in flames, or go down giving it everything they got? Right now they are going down…Avery might help, might hurt, but it cant get much worse

    Gomez was wrong, we did hit rock bottom

  33. Mike 1A,
    I agree, I thought he was the Samson of our team. Damn Delilah convincing him to cut off his facial hair.

  34. Everyone saying that the players here kept Avery in check. Who REALLY kept him in check. He still pretty much did what he wanted to do and said what he wanted to say. Nobody really put a muzzle on him over here. The only time he kept his mouth shut is when he was in arbitration with Sather. That was pretty much it. I don’t think it matters much who is here on this team now and how well they get along. I will say it again. A locker room that is too close knit and buddy buddy is not such a great thing. Nobody there to kick you in the pants. I have no problem if Avery comes back.

  35. Rick,

    Why don’t you try asking TOUGH questions? Sam wasin’t able to do so, this woman Jane doesn’t seem capable either. If the fans were able to ask him the questions that need to be asked we WOULD. However, we don’t have the credentials that you do.

    So please for the sake of all fans out there, start asking the players and coaching staff the tough questions we all want answers for. That’s what a journalist’s job is.

  36. gomez needs to play. im sorry but he can get the puck in deep, he needs guys to keep up with him

  37. this just pathetic

    So baiscally renney is saying
    there is no accountability(As per his interview with Brooks), Im playing who I want, f all of you Im right and no one can tell me ohterwise

    Carp c’mon you have to agree with us at this point right?

    Prucha should be in for either dawes or Voros? YES OR NO

    Renney SHOULD have sat a Vet for tomorrows game – Gomer or
    Redden and brought up a hartford player to fill in the spot YES OR NO

    Line Chaning is only going to hurt us even more against a solid Devils team playing very very well – YES OR NO

    I mean as a longtime fan, Im jsut so disheartened everytime you put up an update about practice or the lines, it’s just so sickening

    I think Im more nervous for tomorrows game (and the shelling we may get) than for any other game other than the playoffs in 94, becasue it really feels like with anohter loss the team will completely implode


  38. soft,
    i think you are being unreasonable here. i am not saying that tough questions shouldn’t be asked. but, rick has to be professional when fans don’t. if he goes in asking questions that are inappropriate his credibility in the media suffers.

    we all want answers but there is protocol for media that doesn’t exist for us fans

  39. TheRealKocur26 on

    Rick – I’ll give you some journalistic advice – ask a hard question for a change – get this guy to glance at you – we can get a monkey to throw slowpitch softball.
    How bout you try this ” Tom , surely you must be wondering if some players quit on you the other nite”
    “Tom, what is your fascination with Aaron Voros” ? – “Tom, when do you plan on showing players like Drury and Gomez what the word accountability means” – “Tom, why was Drury not benched after making it 6 players on the ice the other nite”? “”Tom, any chance Gomez sees the press box vs NJ to send a message that we HAVE hit rock bottom”?

    It’s easy to blog away tuff talk – but lemme see Dick Young here – lemme see Broosk and Tortarella ….

    You want back on the NYR beat – come in guns a blazin ….

  40. i know he sucked last game but he still is one of our high paid top guys and dont wanna see him gettin paid 7 mill to sit. not that i like how hes playing but he doesnt deserve the night off. he needs to earn his money and siting him is just letting him get some time off that he doesnt deserve

  41. I think Orr is more effective player than Voros better skater, better checker, as far as scoring neither one could put the puck in the ocean. I don’t think either of them should be played as ofter as they have been. Renney plays these guys in must score situations and that is just plain stupid. He should know better.
    As far as Prucha sitting goes I don’t get that either. He is small, but he has been better than a lot of them when he plays.

  42. kocur and rick,

    i like that first question about players quitting and i don’t think thats an unreasonable question! i agree he should be asked about the voros obsession too.

  43. Sometimes I’m ashamed and disappointed to hear my fellow Rangers fans… Sure the team has a list of flaws… but the first problem isn’t the fact that coach doesn’t dress Petr Prucha!! Do I think he should play more, sure… but the problems of the team aren’t going to be solved with the injection of just one Prucha… this team is lacking presence up and down the lineup… and that is not the fault of the coach.

    This team is not built to put up three goals a night, they’re just not… even with Prucha playing every game. Prucha is a good player with a lot of heart… Let’s face it, he’s not going to score thirty goals unless he’s playing top powerplay minutes with talented forwards like he did a few years ago when rooming with Jaromir.

    As much as I was against signing Avery for the money and the longterm contract last summer you almost have to jump at the opportunity to drag him back here for half the cost… and worry about the consequences down the road. This team desperately needs new (quasi-new) blood… and we all know that Avery was a god here at the Garden. Unfortunately the positives outway the negatives here.

    Bottom line… stop blaming the coach for everything… stop bitching about constant line juggling with the players that are here… and stop blaming the media because that’s just insane. This team is what it is right now… a good team when they stay with the system and keep the goals against down. Let the dice roll with Avery and see what kind of roll the team can get on in March and April… other than that, it’s reconstruction time in July!

    …and good luck with that Glen!


  44. What the HECK,

    Nice to see you back…

    I’ll welcome you by disagreeing with you (would you have it any other way? lol)

    Gomez may not have know what “Rock bottom meant” but he was right anyway.


    Is it inconceivable that they lose Monday and Wednesday? That would be worse… how ’bout if they fall out of a play-off spot? Or if they in fact miss by the end of the season.

    I’m afraid the freefall aint even close to over.

  45. I don’t care what line combos Renney tries. I’ve come to the conclusion that the rangers are not a very good hockey team. It maybe true that Renney lost the team but I blame and will continue to blame Sather. Because of too many ridiculous contracts to players who aren’t good enough to warrant such contracts and some poor drafting. This team lacks grit and size and a soft defense. The only two players on the back line that are decent defensively are giradi and stall. Thanks to sather (clueless moron) he has built a team of mostly third and fourth line quality.

  46. u cant expect prucha to save the team william but hed do a hell of a lot more than some other guys gettin ice time. he already has this season. just seeein him play has made me more confident that they will win or have a good chance. cant say i get inspired that much from dawes or voros or sjo

  47. It’s ok, Rick. I understand. The media’s job isn’t to ask tough questions, it isn’t to keep the organization accountable to its fans. The media’s only job is to repeat the talking points coming out of Renney and Sather’s mouth in order to maintain niceties which will keep you in good graces with the folks at MSG.

    I mean, the biggest locker room cancer to ever play in the NHL looks like he’s headed back to NY? No problem, we’ll just report it and shrug our shoulders.

    The ever clueless Tom Renney shuffles lines for the 973423496373 time? Another brilliant move. This time it should really do the trick, right? Stanley Cup here we come?

    You want some journalistic advice, pal? Ok, I got some for you.

    How about asking why the team’s best defenseman is rarely, if ever, out on the pp? How about asking why the team’s worst defenseman is always out on the pp? How about asking why the team’s most talented offensive player gets barely 14 minutes a night in playing time? How about asking Tom Renney or Glen Sather point blank if there is a clearer sign of incompetent coaching than the never ending ‘too many men’ penalties? Or how about all those shorthanded goals this season? Just a coincidence, Tom? Just like all those goals we seemingly give up right after we score?

    What a joke.

    I’m glad you found a couple of ‘linemates’, as you call them, to try and come to your defense, Rick, but unfortunately you’re going to need a lot more help given your shoddy coverage.

    Face it, you’re an MSG Yesman, and anyone who expects serious team analysis from this blog is fooling themselves.

  48. Lauri Korpikoski has not shown me much either. Sure he hustles at times but this is a 1 st round draft pick 19 th overall? He continues to play because it is all we have to show for the Leetch trade. This franchise is still in disarray. There is very little help on the way. Just look at the last Hockey news evaluations of teams prospects. Thanks Mr. Sather, and next time the little kids wave to you in the hallway at MSG, would it hurt to stop and say hello or shake their hand?

  49. William,
    1 – “This team is not built to put up three goals a night, they’re just not” How do you know that? We only have Renney’s word for that. I am sure Sather did not have that in mind when he shelled out all those millions for Drury and Gomez. The correct assesement is Renney’s system is not built to put up 3 goals a night.
    2 – “Bottom line… stop blaming the coach for everything… stop bitching about constant line juggling with the players that are here” Everything? Who is blaming the coach for everything, we are blaming the owner for not firing the GM and we are blaming the GM for the bad contracts and yes we are blaming the coach for a system that is not built to put up 3 goals a night.
    3 – ” and stop blaming the media because that’s just insane.” I am not sure what that means, can’t blame the media for giving Sather a pass? Can’t blame the media for tossing soft ones to Renney? You must be drinking some kind of koolaid.
    4 – ” a good team when they stay with the system and keep the goals against down. ” So, when the team wins is the system, and when they lose, it’s the players? ok, got it (/sarc)
    5 – “other than that, it’s reconstruction time in July!…and good luck with that Glen!”
    You must have blind faith in Sather given his track record. why do we need reconstruction? These are the players signed by whom? That’s right, Sather. This is his team, he ran Jagr out of town, he signed Gomez, Drury and Redden to those ridiculous contracts, now you want him to reconstruct what he destroyed?

  50. Sather is obsessed with this “he makes a good first pass” thing for defense rather than physicality and crease clearing which is essential in the NHL. I don’t get it. Even in EDM he had Mcsorely and Beuk in later years, so why the change now?

    Mike in Ia-Gomez should sit. I don’t care how much money you make on this team, if you play like a #%@% then you sit. But he’s playing the Devils tomorrow so he’s gonna try really hard to show them they made a mistake like he always does.

  51. Guys, Lay off Carp. Don’t bite the hand that feeds you. We’re lucky to have the information he gives us.

  52. Amen, Phil. If these media guys bothered to ask just a few of the questions you posed, Renney would’ve been gone long ago.

    Just like you said, there is no accountability, and all these guys care about is maintaining their press credentials. It’s a sad state of sports journalism in this town to say the least.

  53. Friends of Dr. D on

    I can’t wait until they trade Prucha or just don’t resign him. Never seen so much angst and fury spilled over such a mediocre player before.

  54. Phil, you have obviously never even heard of me if you think I’m am “MSG Yesman.”

    I have been to one single game, and it was Adam Graves night. I asked him a couple of tough questions. I don’t get to sit him in front of a bright, hot light and pepper him with question after question.

    Again, you can disagree with me. I welcome that. But try to use your brain a little before you go off accusing people’s professionalism. I have a level of credibility to maintain. You (meaning bloggers, not you personally) don’t. I don’t, can’t and won’t ask questions just because I’m angry, nor can I make them personal attacks on the coach’s or GM’s or player’s credibility. It is definitely not my job to try to coach, or to suggest strategy, or to try to fix problems. My job is to cover the team, find the news, report it.

    Sorry. Anyway, most people seem to think this blog is going pretty well. There are plenty of places a lot softer than this.

  55. Those line combos are a joke, right? Tell us you’re only joking. We’re not in the mood for jokes right now…

  56. i actually like these lines but Renney said that he did not want Nigel Dawes at Center which makes me think that you slightly fudged these line combos and it actually is the dawes-korpikoski-sjostrom. These lines actually look good because Gomez and Drury have actually played well as of late together and scored that clutch goal on adam graves night. Plus, Callahan is a more skilled and disciplined player than Voros and should provide a little more spark to a unit with Dubs and Z…LETS GO RANGERS!!!!

  57. Those lines are a joke. Why is Z on the third line when he was the only producer in the last few games.


    If the Rangers lose to NJ, then I think we will all know the team wants Renney out of there…

  58. Dubi or not Dubi on

    Are we sure that Dawes/Korp/Sjostrom isn’t like, another fourth line? So now instead of having four third lines, we now have a 2nd line, a 3rd line, and TWO fourth lines!?!?

    Can somebody please tell Renney that Prucha might be the only guy who will play hard enough to help him keep his job? One would think that since Prucha played 2 games on a wing with Z and Dubi and scored 2 goals that he would be a fit there… Oh that’s right, after those two games of scoring, he got moved to the wing with Captain Brickhands and the little Nigel who couldn’t.

  59. Yeah, I’m pretty sure that Korpikoski will be the center of that line, which is hopefully the third line. Also, Voros is LW, Orr is RW, and Sjostrom is probably RW, as well. I’m guessing Drury and Naslund will be on the opposite sides of what is listed because of the ways they shoot, right and left respectively. I don’t blame Jane; she is new to this, I believe.

    I don’t understand the problem with Carp; he is doing his job as a reporter. Just because he is also running a blog doesn’t mean he can ask questions like a fan, as he says.

    I guess the Penguins are playing like even more crap, as they could not capitalize on the Red Wings’ crappy play, which got better in the second. That first was just craptastic.

  60. Hot News Flash Just In !!!!!!

    In a hospital in a remote village in western Canada Blairina Renney the daughter of NY Rangers coach Tom ” Clueless ” Renney just gave birth to what the doctors are calling a ASSCHILD and they went on to further say the boy has the body of a donkey and the facial features of a former eastern block european. They also stated that at birth the child spoke incredible fluent Czech.

    Alas do we need to ask anymore why our HERO PRU is in the press box. More updates later

  61. Riche,
    My rock bottom is different then your rock bottom.

    I was just trying to say that for one individual game…that was most definitely rock bottom. How can you get worse then 10-2? Dont answer that. Haha

    The rock bottom you were referring to is 30th place in the league.

    Do you agree with what I said now?

  62. william

    prucha might not solve the problem but why is renny benching a 1.75m 30 and 20 goal scorer???

    Voros does not deserve all this ice time, but if renny kept him in over orr I wouldnt have a problem. I love Orr but he hasnt fought anymore or stuck up for anymore recently

  63. spiderpig,

    that is not true!! it was bettman who pleasured the refs last night so cindy wouldn’t have to

  64. Renny baby update:

    Just in from Canada, we are awaiting a press conference with Blairina via MSG but they are having trouble getting her to bend over and lift her gown so as they can get a good audio test for the microphone. A trait as to where she talks from is believed to be in the family genes. Update soon

  65. Betts and Sjostrom are effective PKs and with Orr provide a decent balanced defensive unit. Now you got Orr and Voros together, one slower than the other, if they go both into a deep forecheck, it’s an automatic odd man rush. The third line is two smurfs on the side of a rookie playing in an unfamiliar position. Sounds dandy. The first line has been tried before and shot blanks. And the Devils’ best checkers will be all over Zherdev. Maybe they just play three defencemen and two forwards and station everyone behind their own blue line the entire game, play for a 0-0 tie, and hope to win it in shootout.

  66. TheRealKocur26 on

    That was a weak attempt whatever you were attempting ….nobody said you needed to get emotional in your questioning – nobody said you needed to be unprofessional – we’re asking you to get answers – we’re asking you to not let Renney slide – we’re asking you to what the Yankee beat guys do – you saw Girardi become livid ..why? because those writers are the vehicle of the people .
    You’ve been to 1 game this season? how the hell are you on the beat? why aren’t you in the pits with Larry Legend?

  67. William

    “This is a good team when they stay with the system.”

    Please describe this system. Thank you.

  68. William

    the “system” is the direct result of their last 5 game performance. “DEFENSE FIRST BOYS, THAT’S GONNA WIN US GAMES”

    Defense first = 10 – 2 loss. LOL

  69. Way to go Carp, if some guys don’t like this blog send them over to the Blueshirt Bulletin .
    I think you’re doing a great, great job here (Jane too)
    I have a question for you, do you think our boy Prucha is going to be traded ?

  70. Some of your people need to lay off Carp. Sam only left like a week ago. We’re lucky to have someone to come in and take over this blog. Carp already has several roles and this blog is one of them. I agree that media has been soft on the Rangers, but if you’ve read Rick’s comments, you’d definitely know he isnt a yes man and he agrees there are major problems with this team. He’s only been to one game because I believe the Rangers have only played three games since he took over. The last game was in Dallas, and as Sam mentioned, the paper didnt pay for him to go to away games. Give the guy a break.

    With that said, those lines are comical. Renney is grasping for straws at this point. I’m not one to boo players and whatnot, but I’m very close with Gomez.

  71. This One Will Last A Lifetime on

    lets get off Rick’s case (he is a GREAT columnist and proven beat writer over many years)
    the line up should be ( I am a hockey coach so I know these things)
    1) Gomez centering Zherdev and Dubinsky
    (because players should play with players at their own speed of the game and your first line should be loaded
    2) Drury centering Naslund and Voros
    (because Naslund needs one and a half muckers/plumbers. Voros will go in the corner and behind the net and get the puck out to Naslund. Drury can be both the mucker and the scorer, and your second line should not be confused with your third line
    3) Korpedo/Callahan/Dawes are three third liners
    4) Betts/Sjostrom all the time Orr-Prucha in and out of line up depending on opponent

    If Renney were to be fired and I was hired, I would start with this lineup. If Renney is not getting fired, someone give him this post and tell him to try it.

  72. Hey New Guys,

    Lay off Carp. If you dont like his reporting – go somewhere else like BB where you have to PAY to get the same information. Its his first week and he is doing a great job. He interacts with us and that’s something you really dont find now-a-days. So if you dont like it – get lost.

  73. “Phil, you have obviously never even heard of me if you think I’m am “MSG Yesman.””

    More like I’ve read enough of your columns to know you’re nothing but an MSG Yesman.


    “I have been to one single game, and it was Adam Graves night.”

    That explains why you have virtually no critical analysis of this team — you clearly haven’t been following it as someone who writes a daily blog about them should.

    “I asked him a couple of tough questions.”

    I hate to break it to you, but asking why Prucha isn’t playing isn’t really a tough question.

    “I don’t get to sit him in front of a bright, hot light and pepper him with question after question.”

    Well, what do you do when you’re at the training facility or in the locker rooms constantly, seeking autographs? You’re around these guys all the time and the most you can muster is couple of (non)tough questions about why Prucha isn’t playing? As if it isn’t obvious that the kid just isn’t one of Renney’s favorites?


    “Again, you can disagree with me. I welcome that. But try to use your brain a little before you go off accusing people’s professionalism.”

    Well, accusing people of not using their brains is certainly a great example of professionalism, isn’t it? Nice job. Too bad you don’t have the guts to be this terse with the guys you’re paid to be critical of.


    “I have a level of credibility to maintain.”

    Correction: You HAD a level of credibility to maintain.


    “You (meaning bloggers, not you personally) don’t.”

    Which is why most bloggers have more credibility than guys like you who are paid to cover the Rangers.


    “I don’t, can’t and won’t ask questions just because I’m angry, nor can I make them personal attacks on the coach’s or GM’s or player’s credibility.”

    That’s a cop out. You know damn well that the questions I posed don’t have to be repeated verbatim. People ask tough questions all the time without any anger or animosity. Don’t go offering up red herring’s because you can’t come up with a legit excuse for your lackluster coverage.


    “It is definitely not my job to try to coach, or to suggest strategy, or to try to fix problems. My job is to cover the team, find the news, report it.”

    Translation: I repeat what I see and hear. My job as a sports journalist isn’t to be critical in any way.


    “Sorry. Anyway, most people seem to think this blog is going pretty well. There are plenty of places a lot softer than this.”

    Puh-leez. I don’t even think Baghdad Bob’s coverage of Saddam Hussein’s regime was as soft as your coverage of the Rangers. This blog is a laughing stock.

  74. First off leave Rick alone, he’s doing ht best he can. William post 1:38 Great post. Most insightful one yet. Nice to see somebody has some hockey sense. Agree with you 100%. Hockeymon 12:59 Re; Drury & Gomez on the same line. During the early part of the season they had some good games together & was wondering why Renney never re-united them. Prucka approx 170 lbs soaking wet has the heart of a lion but it obvious why he’s not playing. We already have a team of smurfs and he’s the odd man out ,although, occasionally I’d rather see him over Dawes whose game is really gone downhill. Also, he was asked to go Hartford for conditioning and refused. He may be being punished with little or no ice time. We do need Avery real bad. He’ll give the team a pesonality and may even light fire under the asses of the some of the underschievers ,ie. Gomex ,Redden & Drury.

  75. well mike a- i agree that if u play like crap u shouldnt get to play but at the same time he may have made one bad mistake but the guy is skating his ass off aqnd noone on his line or team can either keep up with him or they put the wrong guys together on the line. our d is so weak and dumbfounded that the forwards have to come back n help play d and by the time they get the puck up ice theyre dead tired. the system is not suited for gomez and u can see him and alot of guys suffering cuz of it. now they havent been great but given a better system suited for them and to get rid of the god awful defenseman(well 3 of them) while adding a big tuff winger like penner

  76. you guys also-

    prucha might have more goals in the 2week stretch he was allowed to play than 70% the team does since november

    yet he is reduced to the pressbox

  77. rick ur doin fine i dont know what they expect i mean nothing has changed and as bad everyone wants a coaching change ur not gonna go and make that idk i think some people take hockey too seriously

  78. Re “Calling up Anisimov before he’s ready.” OMG – He is BIG, He is PRODUCTIVE, He is 22 years old. Other teams get their best young talent up as teenagers, and look at Chicago and Boston now. You could be an assistant coach for Tom Renney. He hates young players, too.

    In fact Anisimov and some others down there are JUST WHAT THE RANGERS NEED RIGHT Now, along with new ownership and management, of course. New blood is needed all around. Rarely have I seen a franchise so moribund and AFRAID of facing the future, as though clinging to the present-time doldrums is the answer.

  79. Phil, I’m just going to say this, and then if you want to leave, go ahead. I took over the blog from Sam Weinman a week ago Thursday. That’s why I haven’t been around long. Thanks for your nice, critical work. I’m sure it will help me further my 32-year career and 22 years of experience covering the Rangers. And I’ve Yes-manned about 15 different coaches and GMs out of town, not to mention took players, even those of the stature of Messier and Richter, to task. But, you’re right, of course.

  80. I bet the dope who thinks Anisimov is not ready is one of those “Shanny, Shanny we love you” whiners. Right, bring back Shanny, that will win up a Cup.

  81. Hey sid… since you know me so well I figured we could chat a little more and feel comfortable about it. I’m no kid and I’ve been watching this game long enough to know that this team doesn’t have the makeup of scoring consistency. Sure this system has a defense-first agenda… but this same system did score almost three goals per two seasons ago thanks to different personnel. I was being a little facetious in my entire post anyway… there are usually only a handful of teams in this modern NHL that do average three-a-game…

    I said they’re a good team when they stay to the system because it’s true… they’ve shown many times that they can keep good scoring teams down… they just don’t have the kind of lineup to steal many games going the other way. I never implied that it was the system when they won and the players when they lost… it’s the fact that there are no ‘threats’ on this team…

    The demeanor of my post was not to defend Sather, if you read into what I was saying… I was accusing him of not having the right personnel in the lineup… that’s his fault and not the coaches… I’m not blaming Renney for the Rangers lack of grit… scoring… anything… he’s working with what he has and my point was that Prucha alone wasn’t going to change much. Do I agree with everything Tom does in a game, certainly no…

    And speaking of sarcasm… my “Good Luck Glen!” comment was fantasticly sarcastic! lol With the state of the team’s cap and the players length of terms… changing of the guard is a task not impossible, but close here at MSG. Just about every GM lives and dies by the decisions he makes… with some of the headscratchers Glen has made over his tenure, you can equally pat him on the back for the good moves. It’s not like this team has missed the playoffs the past three years or aren’t 29-19-5 right now… amidst the worst they’ve looked in quite some time.

    My comment about the media being blamed is lame… what is our facination with cut-throat questions and need for humiliation? Coaches have to coach and the GM’s need to supply the goods… players still have to play!

    This team just doesn’t have enough to counter their flaws. That’s all I was saying.


  82. Pavel Datsyuk is probably, next to Ovechkin, the best player in the NHL…forget Crosby,Hossa,Igilna Malkin, Vinny…..this guy does it ALL

  83. I am not directing this at Carp. he was not there in Dallas. and I fully appreciate this blog.

    but did you guys notice that the yes man for MSG, Giannone, asked more probing and pertinent questions after the game than the assembled and supposedly independent press corps?


    whatever happened to the tough NY sports press?

  84. Rick….I think the fans get on you because most of the problems seem so obvious except to managment. I think most fans are wondering what team are they watching? How do you explain Prucha not even gettting a chance when we know he is a goal scorer? He’s not Jagr but why isn’t he playing over some of the other players? As a fan it seems like managment has their own agenda (god knows what) and they could care less what product they put on the ice. Some of the problems are so right up in your face but again management refuse to address them, and unfortunatly no one seems to be calling them out. We as fans just want some explaination….Prucha Why????? Dig deep the fans want to know, there is something going on here and were not getting it.

  85. i can also see the frustration of alot of guys here because alot of them pay to go see the games and such, and i am not in ny anymore so i dont get to and am kinda disconnected from hockey out here. this blog and the online feeds of the rangers are as close as i get to seeing whats goin on with the team and dont see press conferences or whatever else. but i can see their point of view that they want as tom would say”accountability” but i dont think as long as sather is runnin the show, renny will not go unless we miss the playoffs so dont hold your breath on that.

  86. tony, it’s a lot more intense that I thought it would be. At first I thought it was a little too negative, but after seeing the last two games, I understand why it’s so negative. The team’s record obviously misled me to some degree (even though I knew it was an shootout-tainted record). I knew there were very few real offensive players left. I didn’t think they were as bad as they’ve been.

  87. Mike in IA

    I live here in NYC and every year I have the option of getting Rangers Tickets from my company and I did when Jagr had it first full year with the team, but before that – I had season tickets when Messier was with the team. Vowed I’d never get them after they d*cked around with him during the summer when he waited for Sather to call while he was in N.C.

    Anyway, I wouldnt waste my money on this team. Its sad.

  88. Rick, is there any truth behind the “Dawes going to Calgary” rumor, or is it just another “what it” rumor made up by a random poster?

  89. dg February 8th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
    so, ESPN radio’s Botta was just full of it

    Yeah pretty much

  90. Rick – One thing I must agree with some of the criticism against what seems like all the Rangers writers this weekend is why doesn’t anyone on the Rangers beat even remotely go after Sather for avoiding the press. This is New York sports not a minor league town. Cashman and Omar have their feet put to the fire each day. Yet, no one publicly goes after Sather for not talking. I think we, as Season Ticket Holders, and you guys as the link to the fans, MUST get something from him after Friday’s game. Brian Burke, Brian Murray, and even Lou at times all speak to the press. That’s part of his responsibility to us and you guys don’t go after him about that.

  91. Cakewalk-I’m like Artie’s biggest fan; have been since the day they drafted him and love his attitude and how he came over here despite this transfer nonsense, put on weight, learned English to interact with the fans, etc. but there’s no point in rushing him this very second. He should be up here getting PP time, but a few more games in the AHL is ok. He should be playing with Zherdev and Drury in my opinion, but remember he’s only 20 and you can’t force on that extra 12-15 pounds right now. He’s gonna be great and I think should definitely be brought back up, but if it’s not tomorrow, that’s cool.

    Let the Rangers sort out this Avery nonsense, find a way to trade a few guys on the NHL roster, and then come March 5th (day after trade deadline) bring up Artie and Avery and maybe even Sags.

  92. Mako, you have the option of going to games or not. I live in AZ & I go to about 3 games a year at MSG. My next trip/game is the Bruins on March 8th. Why do I go ? Because I’ve been a Ranger fan for over 50 years & I love my Blueshirts.
    Frustrated ? You bet. Pissed ? You bet. But I love my team
    Let’s go Rangers !

  93. Ah yes, Rick. When all else fails, you trot out the number of years you have on the job as a defense. As if that really matters.

    Actually, all that proves is you’re an establishment guy. And if there’s one thing this town has no shortage of it’s establishment guys.

    I’d wish you good luck with your blog, but given your decades of vast Rangers expertise, you clearly don’t need it.

  94. I wonder how many permutations there are of line combos?
    and D pairs?

    because Renney has exhausted most of them.

    notice he does not say that his SYSTEM is the problem. no, it must be the combos he arranges.

    and, if a young player had made the blunders that Gomez did, leading to a blowout, you can bet that he would be in the stands the next game. but, Mr. Accountability Renney does not hold Gomez accountable one tiny bit for that. how do you think that goes over with his teammates who have been benched and sat out and punished for far less egregious—see Tom, I can use big words too— mistakes.

  95. People to fire:

    1. Dolan
    2. Sather
    3. Renney
    4. Pearn
    5. Columbia-School-of-Journalism-grad Phil

  96. What the HECK,

    I’m with you bro… just wanted to disagree once for old times sake… you know… when the NYR were a first place team coming out of the gates strong and they hadn’t blown it all yet.

  97. Oh and Rick, I love the blog…
    I loved it with Sam in charge
    and you have continued to do a fantastic job with your own style…Good Work!

  98. MAKO-Wow, the Flyers have really given up on Van Riemsdyk already. I remember someone posted a few weeks ago that Flyers message boards have called him their version of Hugh Jessiman and so soon after he was drafted.

    Does anyone hear feel the Rangers should go after Stamkos if they don’t have to give up too too much?

    Also last night me and a few of my friends who are Rangers fans were talking and I said maybe; but would anyone here do Gomez/Prucha/Sanguinetti/1st rounder in 10 for Vinny L?

  99. MikeA

    Oooohhhh I dont know about Stamkos. I think TB would probably want Staal & 2 other forwards. He hasnt really proven himself but too young for the big stage here in NYC>

  100. I can understand people’s frustrations with the press ( sorry Rick) their job is supposed to be to ask the tough questions…not just print the teams company line…if I want that I watch the games on MSG with their kiss-a** announcers (except Dave Maloney)

    They’re so petrified by the combination of peoples apathy to hockey and getting ignored ( like Sather does) that it becomes hard to say “Tom! you had Jagr, Shanny, Drury, Gomez…et al in 2007-08 and you finished 25th in scoring..this isnt just this year..its a pattern getting worse for three years…HELLO!!

  101. Dubi or not Dubi on

    Can we get Phil out of here? I loved reading Carp’s column’s about the Rangers years ago and I have no doubt that I will enjoy them going forward. Of course since Phil came out of nowhere with the “You’ve only been to one game…” garbage, clearly he/she is a classless human being. Carp has already asked about Prucha, it’s not his fault that Renney is full of it. I’m sure with a few more home games and close to home games, we will be getting some more poignant questions from him. As a professional anywhere in any job, you can’t come out of the gates swinging for the fences, and particularly with our current economy, it’s just not worth pissing the wrong people off.

    So Phil, I’m sure I speak for many of the posters here when I say that you can keep posting here, but if you expect anyone to actually stop and read what you have to say you should grow a brain and learn some respect.

  102. What do you guys expect Carp to do? Dress up as Batman and use the Bat grapple gun from the Empire State building to interrogate Sather and Renney? Carp-You’re doing a great job as a journalist, being objective, giving us news, and causing people to think and evaluate things for themselves.

    It’s impossible to go all Woodward and Bernstein on the management unless they’re doing something illegal. It’s up to the majority of the fans to gather this information from Carp/Brooks/Zipay/etc. and if we’re gonna have a revolution against Sather/Renney to unite. There are still many idiot corporate Rangers fans even on Graves night who gave me this looks of confusion when they saw #s 4 and 42 laced up.

  103. So everything is all peachy now because Avery is sure to return? Anyone who truly believes that has a serious case of denial.



  104. I have one rule of thumb. If Calgary is looking to trade for a Ranger it means they (correctly) covet a valuable NY asset that the local yokel fans underrate dramatically. Since Dawes played his exceptional junior career in Kootenay, British Columbia, most Albertans remember the runner-up WHL MVP as a top offensive talent, with heart, skill and grit despite his relatively small height. Trade Nigel to Calgary? The next time we’ll see him in NY will probably be as a Flame NHL All-star game representative during a stellar year on a line with Iginla and a regular PP slot. Dumb move if seriously being considered.

  105. Thank you, Phil.

    ACD … I can’t make stuff up. There’s nothing happening at the moment, other than the Avery thing.

    kph, you made me laugh. But it’s actually sad that the top two can never be fired.

    HockeyFan, we can’t make him talk to us, can we? His owner ought to make him face the press once in a while, but that’s not about to happen. It should bother the fans more than it bothers the media.

  106. Maybe God will fire Dolan. Everything that guy touches sucks: Cablevision, the Rangers, the [N.Y. Basketball Team That Shall Not Be Named], etc.

  107. Riche,
    You would…

    Thanks for letting us do this blog, unlike Phil, I think you have done a great job covering so far and have asked about the pressing issue of Petr Prucha. I also understand that you really can not piss off Renney. If you do, he wont answer your questions anymore. I dont know how people dont understand this.

    Can you just answer me this one question? I thought they said that Prucha was in the best shape out of the whole team? Wouldnt that mean he is the least likely to “tire out”?

  108. LOL Carp, I guess a few of us just wouldnt mind a bit more accountability. Its not exclusively the media’s fault, but the fact that no major changes have been made is absurd.

  109. alex b (the poster formely known as czechthemout!!!!) on

    I know that this analogy has been used before alot but in the spirit of clueless Tom’s continued usless line juggling,

    The defenition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

  110. let me also give both sides of my earlier post by saying that I know that it is tough when MSG is so petty toward reporters who DO criticize them, as we have heard the stories about the reporters who are denied access, and not notified of things and other petty punishments when they do go against the MSG grain.

    however, without media pressure, fan discontent is just outwaited and discounted by team mgmt

  111. Late 1970’s Giant fans did something about 15 years of lousy football…I’m not sure how many ticket sales were lost ( maybe none) but the threat was there…from burning tix televised on local news to a plane flying a banner over Giants stadium stating frustrations,…its not impossible…posters, chants and not buying tix and merchandise is the only way to make a billion dollar industry listen and RESPOND…unfortunately the only way any of these people listen ( teams, leagues, media) is to hit’em the only place they feel pain…the pocketbook…and just like those late 70’s Giant fans there will be Fans who accuse you of being a bad fan…it worked for the Giants and it can work for the Dolans…er…the Rangers

  112. Rick, is there anything unusual going on or went on at the practice today? i mean, Renney mentioned that they should look forward to Sunday? is there another bag skate practice where he makes the players skate on ice bare-a$$ed so they know what embarrassment feels like?

  113. hey akayama, please. if you think Dawes has grit and is an all star in waiting, you’re smoking something. what heart and grit did you see in Boston?

    and what did he do since, other than do his usual invisible man act.

    Calgary also wanted Lundmark. they make mistakes too

  114. lipstick on a friggin PIG….

    Prucha cannot get into this lineup, this offensive juggernaut.

    SJustrom on another line since he is such a goiod finisher!!!!!!!!!He is a swedish rico fata.

    they have changed and done nothign..

    bench voros or sjustrom or orr and play Prucha is that really that hard to see?????

    WOW can’t wait to Dimitry LINDSTROM comes back, how can they survive without christian backmans double???

    WOW lost 10 to 2 give up 6 3rd period goals after at Pittsburgh meltdown 10 days ago and this is the drastic change you get, WHIPTTYDOO, HAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN.

    I think Avery can help but the guy is a 18 goal scorer…….

  115. KASPAR,

    Lead the way man! I boycotted the NHL after the lockout. I didn’t buy the Center Ice Package and I didn’t buy any merch, tix, etc.

    I did cheat a bit by going to one game at the Garden… it was an x-mas gift from a friend, but I did buy beer (probably a few) while at the game.

  116. Prucha25… nobody thinks Avery alone is an answer to anything… but he’s ‘something’… I’m not in love with idea of bringing him back necessarily… but what other options are out there right now? This team is handcuffed to say the least. Glen and Co. are going to have to get creative to make something ‘bigger’ happen? It’s a real problem…

    Even with everything I’ve said, I do still think that the team can compete… Regardless of what anyone says, they were playing with Pittsburgh last year in the playoffs… and if they could have held a 3-0 lead, I really believe it’s a different series altogether. This team is not too dissimilar and have played good hockey… maybe not for long stretches, but they’re capable with some tweaking.

    Rick… if I missed the reason why I’m sorry for repeating the question… but did anyone find out the exact reason why Jim Schoenfeld was in Dallas with Glen? I know he’s Assistant GM… but is there anything more to him making the trip as well?

    Total speculation, but was it all about Dallas, Avery, or warmer weather… or was it possibly Sather freezing up Renney with an obvious over-the-shoulder fill-in? I doubt Jim accompanies Slats everywhere?


  117. P.S.

    I still watched the our beloved Rangers when on national TV and checked scores, blogged, wahtched highlights, etc,

  118. akayama – give up the ghost on dawes. he is not now and never will be an all star. with the rangers or any other team.

  119. Riche
    Right after my Messier bobble-head doll gets delivered thats it! no more Ranger purchases….I’ll just be content with my Obama coin and plate set

  120. dg-

    Assuming any forward can play any position (LW/C/RW) and 1 guy sits out, there are 33633600 forward line combinations

    Assuming any defenseman can play either side, there are 630 defensive pairs with one sitting out(since we currently have 7 defenseman).

    Of course these numbers change dramatically if you call up someone from Hartford

  121. there is no guarantee that Avery will not be taken by another team. Pitt is in desperate straits right now. they are weak on the wing. they would be dumb not to take Avery to replace Ruutu who did a good job for them last year as the instigator.

  122. Getting Vinny and letting Renney coach him would be like getting Scarlett Johansson as your girlfriend, then undergoing gonad-removal surgery.

  123. Kaspar

    Garden tickets will always be sold regardless of the actual number of fannies in the seats… and when has the Garden crowds not boo’d at the mention of management at any time given the chance?

    I do remember the “Fire Sather” chants that echoed quite a bit at the Garden… haven’t heard all that much of the “Fire Renney” stuff. In fact, the coach was showered with a nice reception from the crowd on Graves Night… then they boo’d management.

    I think the Giants situation was a little bit more to do with the way the team was being handled before Ernie was brought in… I remember later on, a huge banner being dropped down from the top teir at the Meadowlands that almost reached the bottom seats near the endzone that was a plea for management to fire Ray Handley and encouraged fans to chip in to pay his severance.

    I don’t think the fans here at the Garden have any pull with the Dolan regime… what every the fans think of would never be drastic enough.??


  124. Since I was the one at practice this morning I’ll address CCCP’s question.

    The most unusual thing at practice was that it was Corporate Partners day, and there were many, many families there at the rink. I’ll add that Renney doesn’t want to talk about the Dallas loss anymore, either.

    “The best game plan is not to refer to that game,” he said.

    He wouldn’t address the Avery stuff, and when I asked if this team needed some kind of new element to jump start things, he said that this Rangers team had the goods and needed to focus on attention there.

  125. kph-Don’t forget The Wiz. They had the lowest Cd prices and were a fun store up until the mid-late 90s when the Dolans destroyed that chain.

    kaspar-The problem with Rangers fans is that there are two kinds of Rangers fans; the smart ones like us on this board who want youth and a TEAM, and the idiot corporate ones who want big name big name big name and probably think that Evegeny Grachev is “that guy on the Penguins.”

    I’d be down for a boycott but not yet, only if there is no more youth infusion and no accountability for Drury/Gomez/Redden . I got one more game I’m going to and that is only for Bathgate/Howell not these guys as presently run. I boycotted the team in 03-04 and actually rooted against them all season because that team was everything I oppose the Rangers should be. Then my g/f dumps me the week before the fire sale starts and I couldn’t even enjoy it. How life is funny like that.

  126. thanks, Pux. I guess Renney still has a few more combos to try before he goes to plan B, or rather EXCUSE B

  127. “The best game plan is not to refer to that game,” he said.

    Chicken Sh!t! No accountability – I would make them watch it 3x over so they SEE their mistakes to never ever make them again. Especially that tying goal by $8MM man – Gomez.

  128. I actually had the chance to say something to Sather. I got tickets to a preseason game in a suite (very long and goofy story) and sat next to his luxury suite in 2006 and him and Maloney were walking around the concourse the entire game. I saw him a few times but that was when he was good Sather before he turned heel and grew a goatee and gave Jagr a chairshot. He didn’t look approachable at all though anyways.

  129. thanks Jane. Renney said that “this Rangers team had the goods and needed to focus on attention there.”

    ok, all you Renney defenders who claim that the talent is not there.

    RENNEY HIMSELF just said that the team has the goods. so don’t give us any more posts about it’s someone else’s fault.

    Renney himself says that he has the necessary goods to win. thus, if they do not, then we are pointing the finger (you know which one) directly at Renney, because he has stated that he has the players.

  130. “He wouldn’t address the Avery stuff, and when I asked if this team needed some kind of new element to jump start things, he said that this Rangers team had the goods and needed to focus on attention there.”

    So it’s not the teams construction huh? That leaves the leadership, both on and off the ice.

    Or maybe the coach just hasn’t found the right line combos yet? Don’t stop believin!!!

  131. reginald dunlop on

    I was just wondering if Pierre Maguire is such a hockey genius, then why is he on tv and not coaching somewhere???? sometimes I think he forgets he is NOT on the Pens payroll anymore and if he tells us one more time about him coaching with Scotty Bowman, I think we will remove the box he stands on at msg so he can see over the boards during the game

  132. i maybe the one of the few people who thinks this team just needs some “minor tweaking”.

    Its been reported that Brian Burke is looking to “clean house” and acquire draft picks and prospects.

    If i were GM i would do whatever it takes to get Avery back here. He could be a huge solution to our “lack of grit” problem. Plus he will only cost us 1.9 million over the next 3 years.

    Trade Prucha and 2-3 draft picks to get Antropov and Ian White. Antropov only makes 2 million and is a big, scoring winger that i think would play great with Drury and Naslund. Ian White only makes 950k and would add to our Defensive depth.

    Waive Kalinin

    WE DONT NEED A BIG-TIME PLAYER (although i 100% support getting Vinny if possible). . . . . MINOR TWEAKING is KEY !!

    my line-up:

    Zherdev – Gomer – Avery
    Antropov – Drury – Naslund
    Callahan – Dubi – Korpi
    Sjostrom – Betts – Orr/Voros

    Redden – Girardi
    Rozy – White
    Staal – Mara

    scratches: Reitz, Dawes, Orr/Voros

  133. Can I see Gomez with a legitimate sniper before we start burying the guy for every thing he does in a game? I think Naslund has been ok for the team this year… but he is far past his days of being a counted-on first-liner. While he’s not a bad skater at his age, he’s also not the type of goal scorer that can activate a play from within the zone. Callahan is a nice player that is a keeper in my book for this team going forward… but he in my opinion is not comparable to wing a Gomez line… maybe not even Naslund.

    I’m not even sure the Rangers have a good fit with Gomez on this team… Not sure what the best answer is for this situation… I thought Drury and Gomez was going to work the last time, and maybe it could still. I just have a feeling that we won’t get the Gomez we fully payed for until a legitimate goal scorer is tied to his hip game-in and game-out. ??


  134. What the HECK, I have no idea what’s the real story with Prucha, having been here such a short time. I mean, from afar, I knew he wasn’t playing. There must be a reason, right? Why not at least give him a uniform and play the pathetic power play? I don’t have an answer … yet.

    William, I am sure Shoenfeld was in Dallas to work out the Avery-to-Hartford details. He’s in charge up there in Hartford.

  135. dg

    of course the coach is going to say he has the goods… what coach would come out publicly on a 29-19-5 team and say he doesn’t??

  136. Rick… thanks… I know Jim runs the Pack, I was just wondering if there was more to his actual visit needing him physically being there? Was just looking further into it like there was a bigger reason for his presence? Do you think they actually met with Avery yet?


  137. Somerset I partially agree with you..

    Ian WHite can play for sutre he is a very solid mobile D man.

    Why have the same sack of sh-t 4th line.. A team that has no stud scorers need to score by committee..

    Voros does nothing period the end and same for orr and sjustrom. .shustrom can be replaced by many other guys and suit Orr agaisnt the thug teams of the league only.

    the red wings have zero enforcer, how has that worked out for them????

  138. czechthemout!!!!! on

    So if this team has the goods,than who’s fault is it Tom that the Rangers are once again scratching and clawing thier way to a 7-8 seed in the playoffs,a first round exit,and yet another low first round draft pick that will either be a bust or another third or fourth line player?

    Other than players making more than two million dollars that you are not afraid to hold accountable?

    Do you in any way hold your self or your coaching staff accountable for a poor powerplay,lack of offense and a defensive system wich permits 15-20 quality chances a night?


    is there any way you can ask the three questions above in a manner that is more diplomatic than the way I phrased them?

    Also,don’t take offense at some of the frustration here because that’s all that it is.Many of us are frustrated that the team is not looking like they are on a course to a stanley cup.It seems like it’s just like they make up things as they go along without any semblence of a plan.

  139. Rick, I wouldn’t even bother with this Phil character. Looks like he just has too much time on his hands so he’s trying to pick a fight with you.

    He’s probably the kind of guy who’s never been on a date (with a woman) and most likely spends a great deal of his time watching reruns of Star Trek, playing with Mighty Morphin Power Ranger dolls, and trying increase his all-time high score in Halo.

  140. William

    I am still waiting for your description of Renney’s system? The one you’ve stated if followed makes this a good team?

  141. william, I did not expect him to say anything different. what I posted is that his comments now leave him wide open to put the blame on him. I feel that’s where it belongs, anyway. maybe you do not.

    but don’t try to create weasel room out of that by saying that well, he HAD to say that, but he REALLY doesn’t mean it

  142. Carp and Jane

    An big thank you from all of us lowyal blog readers for the great work you do

    we know yuo cant aks them everything and get a 60 min sit down
    we knwo you have to be proffessional

    WE appreciate all the inside info you give us

    Now pleease, GOD, FIRE RENNEY!

  143. So William, we take Renney at his word when exactly? When he says Prucha can’t play because he’s too little? When he puts Voros on the first line? You have no problem with his statements then. But now you do?

    You are sure this team doesn’t have the goods. Renney says he does. And we are supposed to believe you instead? Based on …. ?

  144. Brandon, Phil finds his partners at Inflate-a-Date

    their motto is, “if you have an argument, we’ll help you patch things up”

  145. To Carp or Jane,

    Can we agree that Renney has it in for Petr Prucha? How can he not play after that embarassment of a “game” against Dallas?

  146. Voice of Reason on



    With Drury, Gomez and Naslund, who exactly is going to forecheck and keep the puck in the zone?

    With Dawes, Korpikoski and Sjostrom, who is Dawes going pass to? Hasn’t Renney referred to Dawes as the best set up man on the team?

    With Callahan, Dubinsky and Zherdev, which wing is going to play left. Both Callahan and Zherdev shoot right. More to the point: why would you need to do that? You could put Sjostrom with these two guys and give them a defensive presence and a willing forechecker on the left side.

    The more he tries to fix things, the more he messes them up. Once and for all try this Renney:

    Naslund Gomez Prucha
    Dawes Drury Callahan
    Sjostrom Dubinsky Zherdev
    Korpikoski Betts Orr


  147. Pierre Maguire is horrible. He gets everything wrong. No wonder he did not last in Hartford years ago after 1 season.

  148. Carp,
    This is a good blog and I do appreciate your interaction with the posters. My point is the media is what puts pressure on the FO, It took a while but eventually, there was a critical mass reached that caused Zeke to be fired. It can be done, we are just prodding the media to be more critical when questioning the coach. You and Jane have a good thing going here, keep up the great work.

    Some blame Sather for the problems, and some blame Renney for the so called system. I blame them both.
    True, they were a higher scoring team a couple of seasons ago, but it was with Jagr and Shanahan. Once these guys left, the system got exposed for what it is. In order for the system to work, Hank has to stand on his head. The record speaks for itself. The PP sucked for 3 seasons, and all the youngsters are regressing under this “system”.
    To me the conclusion seems straightforward, the “system” is not working, time to try something else.

  149. Pee-air thinks Crosby is the best player, and nabokov is the best goalie in the league.

    haha, what a joke. Crosby is not even the best player on his own team, and nabokov has been outplayed the past week by Michael Leighton, the Carolina backup goalie, and Dan Lacosta, a rookie just called up by Columbus because of injury.

  150. Sorry Ford… I didn’t even see you ask, just missed it… The Rangers system is simple in nature. I’m not going to sit here and explain anything as if I’m a coach on this staff or anything, but it’s not hard to see what they ‘try’ to do every game.

    Without the Puck:

    In the opponent’s zone, they send one deep with a heavy forecheck to put pressure immediately on the other teams possession and play an aggressive trap with the other two forwards near the blueline; trying to trap either the puck carrier away from the initial forecheck or the recipient of the first pass out. When opposing team gets through the neutral zone the Rangers Defense generally keeps a passive approach at the line allowing time for the forecheckers to apply back pressure, as opposed to keeping an aggressive defensive posture at the line and attacking at the exact point of entry. While in the defensive zone, they play just a typical tight box in front, with one defensmen and the center taking angular paths behind the goaline when the puck is played around the corners. Most teams display this same defensive posture within their own zone.

    With the Puck:

    The Rangers payed the bucks for Redden and Rozsival because they implore the no-think, quick-pass out to the first man up… either the left or right wing, or sometimes the center down low if the other team’s forecheck is already established. If there’s no pressure in the defensive zone and it’s a free possession out… then it’s usually the center who carries the puck out.

    From the first (and hopefully successful pass) the Rangers are attempting to be a carrying team as opposed to the constant dump-n-chasers. While they do both as most teams do, they prefer to carry the puck in and immediately find a way to get a puck toward the net. This is what I assume they WANT to do… I’m not saying this what they actually do… Gone are the days where this team takes the puck possession route, and circles the zone on the outside awaiting an opportunity to forward advance the net. This team seems to want to get the puck at the net and then franticly challenget for possession back… fighting from the corners and then immediately going back to the net… whether or not this style is best for this particular group of men is what we’ve all been debating about Mr. Renney’s preference.

    This team isn’t built on sustained possession. They are a skate fast and hope to force the issue kind of team. They do this with not enough thump in my opinion. One aspect of Avery’s game that would be welcomed. His style does work well in this system. To work, Renney’s plan has to be not just fast… but needs to actually slow the other team’s pace and momentum… and they haven’t been able to do that as much as the previous seasons.

    Glen’s offseason plan was to add guys like Voros, Rissmiller, Fritsche… guys who he thought could play in this system, not slow it down and add a little size to the equation… unfortunately we all know the fate of the last two… and the expectation of Voros peaked with his offensive contributions in October playing with Dubi and Z.

    The biggest key for the lack of consistant success with this year’s group is that there isn’t enough fire to go with the rest of the effort. Not resulting with goals because there aren’t enough guys who can just score without the most cushioned opportunities.

  151. I like ‘Voice of Reason’ lines better than Renneys.
    Except Korpikoski on third line left wing and Sjodtrom on fourth line. What a complete mesh of players in Renney lines. Too many players are out of position.

  152. Jeez…I can understand the fact that most Rangers fans are irate about the current state of the team, but this Petr Prucha shizzle is so redundant.

    That is the obvious clue how bad the Rangers are as a team….If everyone recalls, Petr was invisible for the most of last year. He was actually horrible. When inserted in the lineup, Prucha never was even close to the puck that if you watched on TV, you wondered if he was even playing that night.

    Dont get me wrong….Pruuu has more heart and skill then most of the current lineup….but begging for him to play like he was a lock to be a game changer tells me that this team really suuuuuxxx.

  153. Hey guys I got tired of all this Renney stuff so I went to jets journal to pose a question,Just to get off hockey for a minute.Wht do the jets do with Pick #17.?Feel free to jump in Carp.

  154. Still don’t understand why Sather will not be fired. He is the Bernie Madoff of hockey. He gets by on an old reputation, lets MSG PR promote his “genius”, and blames players and coaches when things go wrong. He hides from the press and has conned Dolan into believing he is irreplaceable.
    When he refused to re-sign Jagr and Shanahan, instead of thanking them for bringing this team back to respectability, he commented on how grateful they both were to him for the experience. He has the ego of a con man. How many great players have come and gone through this organization, yet he still remains? He is all smoke and mirrors.

  155. I tried to say it before, I don’t think Renney is the perfect coach… not even close. Not even Bowman was perfect. Players still have to perform… and the right combination of players is needed to support what you’re trying to do… I just don’t think they have the right assortment of players for the kind of team they want to be. I in no way advocate Voros being on a top line… Unless you are playing him with a Center and Right Wing that feed mostly off each other and put up points every game. I know Aaron Voros is not a top 6 player…

    What this team is sorely missing (outside of the obvious threat of the Jagr)… is a player like Straka… someone who could forecheck with the best… skate like the wind… backcheck… and light the lamp… in a perfect world, every hockey player would be able to supply you with the same thing. I just don’t see any players like that on this team.

  156. RICK,
    Thanks a lot.

    My only other question is…Is it possible to bench Orr and put Voros into his spot. Is there really a need for two goons on the ice? And at least Voros has a little bit of skills as shown by his first couple weeks here. Will Orr ever be benched?

  157. Carp,
    I think you’re doing a better job with this blog than I ever expected. Based on the number of posts to each blog entry, a lot of other people seem to agree. Your credentials are solid with me — I remember one article (before the lockout) where you absolutely took Sather to task and did not pull any punches. Of course, he’s still running this ship, but that’s besides the point. This Phil guy is simply an agent provocateur, and a poor one at that!

    the jets will again win the super bowl of the off season. then fall on thier faces in the regular season. same as always.

  159. Leetchhalloffame on

    Renney may not be the best of coaches but this disaster is all on Sather. He painted this coaching staff and team into a corner with his Rip Van Winkle act in the off season. When he awakened from his slumber he also fiddled while the Rangers burned. FIRE SATHER!!

  160. kc

    I wanted Jagr back on this team as much as anyone who felt the same… but how could you possibly do this when you knew that you needed to land at least Gomez or Drury that year… and nail down Lundqvist longterm for big bucks… Of Course at the crack of Midnight July 1st, you had to make a pitch for Gomez and Drury simultaneously or you risk the chance of signing either player. Glen admitted that he never expected both to accept the initial offer. I still don’t think these are a bad move yet… even for the price. I still have hope that those two signings will pay off when all is said and done. It hasn’t yet, and I’m as disappointed as any other fan.

    Jagr said that he wanted to come back… Glen told him he would take him back… but don’t forget Jagr played with as much pride in the game as anyone. He stated that he wanted to be payed top dollar and insisted this even knowing that the Rangers couldn’t afford him. With the clutch of the Capitals paying half of his salary gone… and the Rangers feeling the need to insert puck moving d-men (Redden and Rozsival still have a lot of proving to do) there was no way it could happen.

    The team circumstanced itself into the state that it’s in right now. Did they overspend… yes… Did they make all the right moves… no… but I still think Drury and Gomez can be looked at as good signings down the road. I guess I’m hopefull more than most???

    As far as the system… around the league, they are not so different from team to team. It’s the personnel and the effort that make them work or fail. Of couse the Coach is responsible too… I just really think it’s not as much Renney as it is who he has to work with!!


  161. Pretty sad when you have the following players inserted onto the 1st line over the past 3 years –

    1) Brad Isbister – 2006-07
    2) Marcel Hossa – 2007-08
    3) Aaron Voros – 2008-09

  162. Liquid… I get where you’re coming from and agree… but Hossa was a good fit with Jagr and was producing on his line until he got hurt.


  163. just as expected. the renney lovers immediately come back with the same anti-sather posts as before.

    as though fans love sather and dolan. as though fans absolve them of any blame.

    how many times does it have to be said? Dolan and Sather are NOT going anywhere, so why belabor that impossible dream.

    besides, Renney said that he has the players he needs. so, if you’ve got a problem with sather, well apparently renney doesn’t.

  164. re: Antropov

    Here’s an alarming stat. For players with more than 40 GP, he is on the ice for more goals against than any other player (adjusted to GA/60 min). In terms of plain old GA, only 2 forwards have been on the ice for more, #1- Kovalchuk #2 Boyes.

  165. William,

    You’d better be careful or someone will accuse you of either being related to Renney or to me!:)

    That was one of the best technical explanations I have read about the system the Rangers currently employ.

    Just one observation. When Gomez tries to carry the puck in and actually succeeds, he pulls up just over the blueline, looks around for someone and usually gets stripped or coughs the puck up. He seldomn takes a shot on net.

    When he played in NJ, he had Elias and Gionta coming down the wings to go for any rebounds and they had much success. Why doesn’t he do that here? It’s almost like you have to beg all these guys to shoot.

    Anyhow. If you are at the Garden, stop up and see me. I’m in 409. Always nice to speak to an kindred spirit. Just as for Mrs. Hurley and the kids will point me out.

  166. Mike in 1A

    You say that the Rangers would be giving their all….The problem is that they have been giving their all, but their all isn’t all that much.

  167. I think that this entire team needs to make a persoanl and deeply felt apology to Valiquette.. They made a fool of him. And of course it was really started when Gomez decided to do an Alice in Wonderland move through the goal mouth.

  168. jeffluke and mhurley… thanks!

    mhurley… What you said about Gomez is exactly true. He was very successful in NJ doing what he does because he had wingers who were the exact compliment to his game. Quick transition players with a nose for the goal. Gomez is one of those unique players with the ability to zip through the zones carrying the puck like a motorcycle on a crowded highway. Like other great playmakers before him (Gretzky being the obvious comparison to this effect), skating into the zone and pulling up looking for the open wing or defensmen jumping in is a forte to his game. His problem is he doesn’t have a Gionta or Elias on this team that can be accountable on both sides of the puck and be a consistant threat-in-waiting for a pass in scoring position.

    Like I said before… Naslund is ok, and probably as good of an option to play with Gomez as any on this roster… but it’s diminishing returns for the club on the scoresheet. Zherdev would work over time with Gomer if the Rangers were deeper down the roster than they are. Zherdev is a skater and we all know what kind of shot he has… but he’s as much of a possession guy/playmaker as Gomer… and their pairing would force either player to adjust there game too much.

    Gomez needs a sniper… who that will be… we can only hope to find out before the fans boo him and everyone else out of town!

    Maybe I’ll take you up on that chat one time?

  169. William wrote:

    “In the opponent’s zone, they send one deep with a heavy forecheck to put pressure immediately on the other teams possession and play an aggressive trap with the other two forwards near the blueline; trying to trap either the puck carrier away from the initial forecheck or the recipient of the first pass out…”

    William, I want to be respectful. But what you have put down here is sheer nonsense. One forward “deep with a heavy forecheck” is an oxymoron. A single forward cannot forecheck successfully if his linemates are at the blueline! The idea is to turn the puck over deep in the opponent’s zone when you forecheck —- if the other two forwards are at the blueline, you are accomplishing nothing.

    When you send a lone forward in, all you can hope to accomplish is forcing the rush coming at you to go to the side of the rink you would like them to go to. That is all!

    Without a second forward to support the inital forward, not at the blueline but well within the zone, you are not forechecking —- you are playing a trap.

    This to me is what is so frustrating about Renney’s fans — so many do not seem to know what it is they are seeing.

  170. mhurley – Interesting take on Gomez and his previous wings. Looking at the stats though, I do notice that he is leading the team in shots and tied for 25th in the league. I think most of his shots are garbage but maybe there’s something to be said about anyone having the ability to keep up with him.

  171. Ford, I agree. A “heavy forecheck” with only one forward is not a forecheck at all, much less a heavy one.

  172. I play in a men’s league. D league. Z league even.

    We have an absolutely HORRIBLE player on our team. Can’t skate backwards, plays with one hand on his stick and hangs out on the red line no matter where the puck is. Anyway, he started out on the 3rd line, but that just guaranteed a -2 each shift, so what did we do? He now plays the wing on the top line, why? Because we can absorb and cover for his ineptitude. (though our production takes a hit.. not to mention our legs in the third)

    Although it’s a crappy beer league, I see some similarities between our “hide the awful guy” line philosophies and Renney’s placement of Voros. Limited ice time so he can’t hurt you, or surround him with gifted players so they can pick up the slack. Either way, somethings gotta give.

    We can’t cut our buddy cause he payed $175 to play (and he’s a big time fan favorite). I wonder how much Voros is paying to stay in the lineup.

  173. “When opposing team gets through the neutral zone the Rangers Defense generally keeps a passive approach at the line allowing time for the forecheckers to apply back pressure, as opposed to keeping an aggressive defensive posture at the line and attacking at the exact point of entry.”

    Again, to be kind, this does not scan. A “passive approach at the blueline allowing time for the forecheckers to apply back pressure” suggests the defensemen surrender the blueline on the rush …. but of course if they do not stand up rushes without speed at the blueline, then the backcheckers have no chance to do their thing.

    Ironically, one of the great improvements in the NYR’s defensive posture from the days of Low and Muck is that now they DO stand up and defend their blueline if there is not an odd chance rush —– so I can’t even begin to tell you how wmuch hat you are reporting, William, simply does not comport with the facts.

  174. one reason ANtropov has been on the ice for the most goals is Toronto’s defense is the worst in hockey.. small factor..

    stats can be misleading.

    The rangers do not have a 1st line they have 3 3rd lines and then a 4th line……

    Jus becauese we state Sather is a buffoon does not mean we think Renny should not be fired….

    Renny needs to explain why redden, kalinan, and the other vets are not helpd responsible like dawes and prucha. he also needs to explain this line insanity..

    I have no problem with the defense style since the ycannot score but the lineup and the lines are moronic…

  175. Ford, I have watched and played hockey my entire life… I know what a forecheck is… I guess we’ll have to disagree on our own interpretations though.

    How is ‘a heavy forecheck’ an oxymoron? My point of ‘heavy’ is to suggest that it’s a deep first puck possessor attack trying to force that player to turn over the puck himself or force him to make a quicker decision to his next option… a forward or defensive partner closer to the blueline where the other two Rangers forwards would be waiting to apply immediate pressure. You are right when you say that you want the puck to go to the side that you want… you do want that most of the time, and that’s where you have the other two forwards intent on supplying the next wave of pressure.

    “Without a second forward to support the inital forward, not at the blueline but well within the zone, you are not forechecking——you are playing a trap.” …of course… I said in my post that it was an aggressive trap. Aggressive because they are sending the two forwards up at the blueline awaiting the result from the heavy forechecker. If it were a regular or passive trap (like the Devils mastered in the 90’s) they would have a passive lone forechecker with all four other players boxed in the neutral zone, theoretically playing a ‘zone’ defense like basketball.

    If you were to constantly send two forwards deep forechecking all the time, the team would be odd-manned down the ice more often than not and would ultimately be giving up too many chances down the other end. Yes there are times when you have two men deep… and when you transition from deep offensive pressure to defensive posture, you’re going to have players out of position. Rarely do you plan to send two men deep on designed breakouts. It just isn’t smart.

    The Rangers do not implement a two-man deep forecheck… nor would they.

    The other two forecheckers in the Rangers design do play the aggressive trap in the neutral zone… but the Rangers themselves do not play an overall trap because they do not keep more than their defensive pairs in the neutral zone as a group… they just don’t. They play a passive defensive posture down low with help from the backcheck… and play defense as a group from the goalie, outward.


  176. Ford… you can disagree with me all you want… that’s fine, you’re entitled… but guys don’t pick on my choice of words to describe what I’m trying to explain. There are different degrees of forecheck and pressure and it has to do with the amount of pressure and effort the initial forechecker is applying to the first possessor.

    And the Defense does break up plays more at the blueline with respect to previous teams thanks to players like Staal and Girardi… Big and smart guys with reach that can make up for taking those chances. There’s always going to be variances of the game during play… you can’t just play EXACTLY the same way every play… it depends on the team and players you’re playing against… who your backcheckers are… who you have in net… I’m generalizing… not debating. All I was attempting at saying was what they ‘attempt’ to play as a defensive system… that’s all… I wasn’t saying they never hold the line… it’s impossible to always step up at the line though, and they would rather fail in the defensive zone as a postured unit, than to fail at individual attempts.

    Lastly… because I won’t be on much longer to keep going back and forth with this… “Renney Lover”… terms like this are just ridiculous to me… As if it’s a radical persona who is trying to change the world or something. He’s the Rangers coach… and I happen to think the team fails him more than he fails the team… my opinion… I don’t think he’s the best coach, but I think he’s a good one… and if that makes me a Renney Lover… well… I guess I’m a Renney Lover… weird


  177. William, no team in the world sends one guy deep without at least one linemate supporting him at the half-wall, not at the blueline. A 1-2-2, which Renney plays far more often that not, has the wings at the blueline as you say when the oppostion has the puck hbehind its own net after a dump-in, but the forward is NOT forechecking. He is simply eyeballing the puck carrier, hoping to influence where the breakout goes —- no one can execute a heavy forecheck with his linemates 60 feet away. It simply does not exist, not even on a team as poorly coached as the NYR.

  178. ford

    we’re almost agreeing on things we see, I guess we just ‘look’ at them differently…

    ” A 1-2-2, which Renney plays far more often that not, has the wings at the blueline as you say when the oppostion has the puck hbehind its own net after a dump-in, but the forward is NOT forechecking. He is simply eyeballing the puck carrier, hoping to influence where the breakout goes——no one can execute a heavy forecheck with his linemates 60 feet away.”

    Like i said in my last post… every play and breakout is different… teams, players are different… it can’t be the same all the time. But that deep forechecker is at times forced to sit in front of the net ‘eyeballing’ as you say… but even still when that forechecker is staystilled, he is aggressive to the first move and ideally, the Rangers system is to implement the next wave of pressure with the other two forwards immediately. The distance between the two points sounds as though it’s a lot, but in the context of playing the game it’s not that far…

    I guess we’ll just have to disagree.


  179. “Aggressive because they are sending the two forwards up at the blueline awaiting the result from the heavy forechecker.”

    This is not true. You have your systems confused, William. A forechecker checking “heavily” makes contact physically with the opposition, and always has a linemate close at hand to take the puck from the D-man affected by that pressure. Your idea that one forechecker does his thing alone while his linemates await the outcome is not based in reality.

  180. little green men on

    what the heck wrote “My only other question is…Is it possible to bench Orr and put Voros into his spot. Is there really a need for two goons on the ice? And at least Voros has a little bit of skills as shown by his first couple weeks here. Will Orr ever be benched?”

    First of all, Voros is not a goon(you have to be able to fight to be a goon). Orr broke in as a goon but has worked hard on his skills and I think most people would agree he has gotten faster( he is faster than Voros) and much stronger defensively. I’d like to hear what others think. He is a much better fourth liner than Voros and that is why he will not be replaced by Voros.(that wicked right hand doesn’t hurt any either).

  181. ford is right. forecheck means taking the body in the offensive corners, playing a 2-1-2

    if you are playing physical, and forcing turnovers between the end boards and the faceoff dots with more than one guy, you are forechecking. if you are just backing up and forcing turnovers beyond that, you are trapping

    a 1-2-2 is NOT a forecheck. although some coaches like to call it a “controlled forecheck”, that is nothing more than a euphemism for a trap.

    a 1-2-2 is just clogging and waiting for a mistake.

    if you dump it in and only send one guy in for it, you are a passive trapping team.

  182. Forechecking means you are attacking the puck carrier, not trying to influence his break-out. If the first man in simply waits to react to what the opposition does — ie. doesn’t try to turn the puck over, doesn’t attack the man with the puck —– he is not forechecking! This is Hockey 101, sports fans!

  183. I have nothing confused… I heavy forecheck doesn’t mean the player gets trapped deep in the zone for himself to become wasted by the distance between him and his fellow linemates. I’m also assuming that when I say he’s forechecking heavily that he’s not just sitting in front and ‘eyeballing’… I’m refering to plays that are more fluent and most specifically to a player carrying the puck. I know I said initial possessor, but sometimes the the next guy that gets the puck is still deep and he’s the one that gets the initial heavy forecheck.

    It’s circumstancial to each play… not every play is the same and I never suggested that it was how EVERY play breaks down… I only suggested it’s what the Rangers system would prefer to be as by the style they play.


  184. Forecheck in itself does not mean ‘taking the body’… it’s simply forcing the play… doesn’t necessarilly mean taking the body… and I said the second stage in the 1-2-2 system that I said they play is an aggressive trap because they do generally like to attack the play at or near the opposing blueline with two players…

    The Rangers to an extend… have a trapping style of play… there… I said it to be more clear!


  185. There isnt one guy on this team I’d pass judgement on until they get a chance to play under a real coach…not this chicken-crap system they play under now

    I read of stanley cup winning/ hall of famers getting derided on this board and called selfish or lackadasical and finally ridden out of town by the clowns managing the Rangers…no way I do it again

    Fire Renney

    Then judge Gomez and Drury…and the rest

  186. It is painful to watch game after game of sloppy plays, defensive lapses and a total inability to score, let alone get a shot near the goal. While Renney makes some questionable decisions and MUST hold the players (other than Prucha) more accountable, he can only play with the deck of cards he’s been given. You have to shoot to score! These guys are trying all this fancy stuff and forgetting the basics of gritty hockey. If you put the puck on net enough, some will go in! The team as it is put together does not work well together…

    Sather is the number one guy who should be fired. Every team we lose to has rising star, youth talent. Our young players never achieve that star level and the veterans are stiffs. We have a bunch of at best 2nd line players, paid the big bucks with LONG contracts. What a mess, that is not so easy to clean up—there’s no free money to do anything about it. Sather should go. BRING ON MESSIER!

  187. “Forecheck in itself does not mean ‘taking the body’… it’s simply forcing the play… doesn’t necessarilly mean taking the body…”

    One hundred thousand per cent WRONG —- you cannot have played hockey if you can make a statement like that.

  188. Whoa, now, William, the essence of forechecking is taking the body! It is separating the puck carrier from the puck by hitting him and allowing the other guy in with you to take possession to create scoring chance. No gray area there!

  189. all i have to say is they’re making the right move not firing Renney right now. I trust him, he can get the team to turn it around, just a few minor adjustments.

    Why bring in a coach now and screw up the team even more? Let Renney finish out the season, and if he doesnt come back next season i can deal with it. He deserves to not be embarrassed at all.

  190. I’ll defer to Jane on the Jets questions.

    And whatever the system happens to be, if all five guys aren’t doing their job, it breaks down. Then the guy who isn’t doing his job has to be held accountable if it happens over and over.

    Plus there isn’t a system on the planet where it’s acceptable to turn over the puck outside the blue line. Every system known to man says, if you can’t carry it in, dump it in, because losing it there, with everybody going forward, is a disaster waiting to happen. So when you do that time and again, it is up to the coach to staple your shorts to the pine.

  191. oh yes it does. the term “forecheck” comes from the earlier days of hockey, when they would have one man take the body, and his teammate would then pick up the puck. that is physical, that is 2 men, and it is a forecheck.

    THAT is the original use of the term in the NHL

  192. once again… it’s interpretation… you can so forecheck without ‘taking the body’… forecheck, does not necessarily mean bodycheck. Sorry you don’t think so, but I do… of coures the majority of the time it’s taking the body… but so is most of hockey… that’s the point, to use your body… but you don’t have to take the body or check a player to forecheck… it’s about applying pressure…

    are you trying to tell me that players like Betts, and Sjostrom are only forechecking if they’re ‘taking the body’? To some their ability to forecheck is their prized attribute… they are hardly ‘taking the body’ on every attempt to forecheck.

    I’m so sorry you guys are more knowledgeable… and you doubt I’ve ever played the game. I don’t really care… I was never coming here to say I knew anything more than anyone else… I was asked by you ford to explain something you seem to know better than I… so I guess your whole intention was to look smarter and make someone look dumber?

    Guess you win…

  193. Forechecking – Pressuring an opposing puck carrier
    Backchecking – Rushing back to the defensive zone in response to an opposing team’s attack.
    Body checking – Using the hip (also known as hip checking) or shoulder to knock an opponent against the boards or to the ice. This is often referred to as simply checking or hitting and is only permitted on an opponent with possession of the puck.
    Poke checking – Using the stick to poke the puck away from an opponent.

    There are more types to checking, but these are the most common.

  194. Carp,

    This breaks down pretty simply. People who do not think Renney is a good coach point to his refusal to play a 2-1-2, while imposing a defensive “posture” that nonetheless permits odd man chances against as if he were playing high-risk firewagon hockey like the ’84 Oilers.

    What is troubling is that many Renney fans who say they like his current system have quite literally no idea what it consists of.

  195. “Let Renney finish out the season, and if he doesnt come back next season i can deal with it. He deserves to not be embarrassed at all.”

    give me a break, house. Denis Savard is one of the greats in Blackhawk history, and he was fired by them after only 4 games this season. if he can be embarrassed like that, then who gives a rat what Renney thinks, or Renney supporters.

  196. This breaks down pretty simply. People who do not think Renney is a good coach point to his refusal to play a 2-1-2, while imposing a defensive “posture” that nonetheless permits odd man chances against as if he were playing high-risk firewagon hockey like the ‘84 Oilers.

    What is troubling is that many Renney fans who say they like his current system have quite literally no idea what it consists of.

    Not every team has the ideal players to assimilate three or more lines every game in a 2-1-2 format… maybe more teams wish they could… but that’s not how most teams play because they don’t have the personnel.

    …and there’s this ‘Renney fans’ stuff again as if he’s some kind of cancer on the team already… like everyone should be against the man for some reason… I don’t get this at all… like it’s bad to like him??

  197. I’ve noticed the Rangers were much more aggressive and worked harder in the beginning of the season then they do now. They were always cycling in the other teams zone and spent a good portion of the time in there. Fatigue maybe?

    Personally I’m a fan of good ole’ dump and chase hockey. The Rangers do have the personnel for it with Dubi/Cally/Prucha/Orr/Sjo/Korpo and even Voros. If Avery comes that’s even better. Why not go back to that system and just pound the living daylights out of the oppositions D tiring them out?

  198. Rangers 994

    “if you are playing physical, and forcing turnovers between the end boards and the faceoff dots with more than one guy, you are forechecking.”

    That’s fine. But it becomes a problem when no one is home to shoot a centered pass. How many time have you seen three forecheckers behind the goal line. That’s when you no longer see 5 in the frame, as Renney is so fond of saying.

    Or, worse yet, the forechecker doesn’t attempt a centering pass but dicks around with the puck, taking back up the boards in an effort to get it to a defensemen who can’t or won’t shoot. It seems only Mara and Rosival ever rarely pinch.

    The Rangers can’t sustain an agressive forecheck because most are unwilling to take the body or take a hit to make a play. The only forwards on this team that are willing to get dirty in the corners are Callahan, Dubinsky, Prucha and the fourh line. You want your scorers like Naslund, Dawes and Zherdev to stay open to take the pass and the shot. Where does that leave Voros, Gomez and Drury. If they don’t get dirty in the corners and they don’t dish out hits, they’re pretty useless.

    Keeping five in the frame or the passive trap as someone mentioned is playing offence defensively. If three Rangers are in deep and can’t control the puck, when the opposition comes back out with the puck, those three guys trail the play. Our flatfooted, swiss chees defense, Redden, Kalinin and sometimes Rosival will get beat everytime. Kalinin is either lazy or brain dead. I have seen Redden flat out give up on plays. Playing 1-2-2 passive trap is hoping for enough offense without exposing our poor defense.

    Avery was successful because he almost always was in the crease mixing it up. He was positionally sound. He might be what the team needs, in an x’s and o’s sense. Personally I think Avery is an ass but he knew how to get the puck to the net.

  199. William, mhurley

    If the “defense first” system was preventing great scoring chances against, multiple odd man rushes against, clueless play without the puck in all three zones, then we would have a really good argument here to play passively on offense. But that hasn’t happened. And when you guys get around to dealing with that, let me know. Because right now you are desccribing a system with benefits that only you can see. They ain’t on the scoresheet, that’s for sure.

  200. “Why bring in a coach now and screw up the team even more? Let Renney finish out the season, and if he doesnt come back next season i can deal with it. He deserves to not be embarrassed at all”

    He deserves to be embarrassed. Embarrass this team, then then he should get embarrassed.

    With the Flowers winning, i think we’re in 7th, or 6th. Either way, it’s not looking good.

    Once Aves comes back, im assuming that’s officially the end of Pruchs. I hope he scores a
    load of goals, and then comes back to the Garden, and fires a slap shot that goes off Redden’s face, and hit’s Renney in the noggin.

    Not looking forward to tomorrow’s game, at all.

  201. Just out curiosity, for those who think the Rangers should play a 2-1-2 as opposed to a 1-2-2 two questions –

    1) what makes you think there won’t be even more problems in the Rangers defensive end with the additional forward now high?

    2) which forwards are grossly underutilized in the current “system”?

    I guess I’m thinking that the defense is giving up a fair number of odd man rushes to begin with and a 2-1-2 just opens the ice up in the transition from neutral zone to defensive zone further.

    On the second question, I feel that the team is undersized to really win battles on the boards and in the corners. I don’t think there’s anyone on the team that makes a an opposing defenseman saying “oh no, here comes player X”.

  202. No one is going to tell me that Kobasew and Yelle and Lucic and Savard and Axelsson and Kessel and Krejci and Wheeler are so far superior to the Rangers personnel that they can attack and the NYR can’t.

    When you attack, especially with the kind of excellent skaters the Rangers have throughout the lineup, you bring several things into play that right now this team cannot come close to presenting:

    1) A physical component that wears down the other team over sixty minutes, ie. “being hard to play against”

    2) Drawing penalties because teams are forced to go outside the rules to counter your relentlessness

    3) Winning the odd blow-out by jumping out early, taking a lead, and breaking the other team’s will

    4) Most important, a return to the natural instincts of a hockey player to react rather than think. That means to NEVER have the thought in your head as you’re driving to the net, “Uhoh, what if I miss the net with my shot and don’t get back fast enough.” You can’t score goals or play passionate, emotional, winning hockey that way.

  203. Edmund,

    That’s just it. Instead of playing the 1-2-2, too many men get too low. That’s when the multiple odd men rushes occur. Watch a game where every Ranger has played a full 60 minutes and stuck to the game plan. The December game at the Ducks 3-1 and the January shut out of the Penguins 3-0 come to mind. The system worked in both these games. When everyone comes to play and they execute the game plan, they have won.

    So they don’t punish other team. They don’t blow them out. They’re style of play is boring. But, two points are two points. Whether in regulation, in OT or in the shoot out, winning is what matters.

  204. Orr

    Seriously, are you an adult or a child?

    Embarrassed? If you are an adult, you should be embarrassed by your post.

    If you are a teenager or a child you might be forgiven but I’d put you to bed with no supper.

  205. the NYR are playing .500 hockey except for October, and the claim is Renney has them up to this level or they’d be worse. How much worse? Or would they be better than .500 without him? Renney is a truly amazing great coach getting these losers to do that only half the time.He lets them not give 100% effort, and with that he’s got them above their abilities.

  206. mhurley

    The game against the Penguins is a bad example for you to use —– precisely the point I am trying to make. There were endless breakdowns in the first half of that game playing the “system”: Three breakaways in the first ten minutes, a 2 man breakaway later on, and odd man rushes against throughout except for a good third period. Before that, it took Hank’s best game of the season to even keep the Rangers in the game, much less win it.

    How about the 5-4 loss to Washington?? A 4-0 lead gotten by actually attacking, then reverting to a neutral zone, zero-hitting trap that begged Washington to get back in it. That lead wasn’t lost by attacking —- it was lost by fear of blowing a lead rather than trying to expand it.

  207. hey JJP. because they DID it in Boston in the last 10 mins, and they dominated the action, and the Bruins did NOT burn them while they were doing it. savvy?

  208. right, Orr. Peter Laviolette won the cup in Carolina, and he was fired in mid season. but these guys think that renney deserves some kind of sainthood for winning zippo, nada ,NOTHING.

    he deserves nothing but a boot out the door.

  209. I can’t believe some of you actually think Renney will be fired before the end of the season. No chance. We have players with no accountability to the coach, a coach with no accountability to the GM, a GM with no accountability to the owner, and an owner with no accountability to the fans. What makes you think anything is changing anytime soon?

  210. Edmund-Lucic and Wheeler are big physical players while Yelle is ye olde reliable as a grinder from his Cup days with Colo. Kobasew is a buzzsaw and Hnidy ain’t no wuss. Also they have a defense that is more physical than the Rangers.

    Avery in Hartford? I wonder who he plays with. he played with AA two preseasons ago and that was a fun line to watch. Maybe he can be positive influence on AA and teach him some physical tricks. Who knows. More likely he’ll be with Patrick Rissmiller.

  211. I hope we will all be saying Bye Tom. But I’ll believe it when I see it. Will Perry Pearn be taking over the head coaching duties?

  212. Perry Pearn couldnt coach a under 16 roller hockey team @ Hot Skates in Lynbrook, New York…..let alone the New York Rangers

  213. it will be schonfeld if he fired during the season.
    mhurley, you need to take off those rose colored glasses.

  214. It’s not because of the Carps/Janes of the world that there’s no major pressure on Sather or Renney… and you can’t blame the MSG staff either- would you badmouth the company you work for and expect to have a paycheck the next day?? Didn’t think so.

    As far as I’m concerned the problem is the local sports talk radio producers that are at fault. Where’s Joe and Evan, Boomer and his puppy Carton?? I can understand Francesa, cuase he doesnt have a clue about Hockey…..

    That’s the forum to ask Renney the tough questions, not at an after-practice softball lobbing contest…

  215. The only Ranger news that I want to hear is:



    That would make 2009 a good year no matter what else happens.

  216. The problem is, WFAN producers think nobody cares about hockey in New York…. Which is a crock because the Rangers 94 cup came in number 1 in their “greatest sports moments in NY” poll – Which was voted on by the FANS!

  217. Boomer/Benigno – WAKE UP……

    Carp/Jane- so far so good on this blog. Like the interaction.

  218. I’m just throwing this out there, with not a hint of a rumor or anything, honest to god. But is it possible that no coaching change was made today because this was the day all the corporate sponsors and their families were visiting the practice rink?

    Just a wild theory. Nothing more.

  219. That reminds me … in my previous life as a Rangers beat guy I was a very-regular with my buddy Benigno. I’ll have to start getting on there again to push the blog and get hockey back on the airwaves, especially between football and opening day.

  220. Ctrain you are so correct. It’s not the beat reporters job to criticize players and coaches. That’s for the columnists and sports talk shows. Unfortunately, hockey coverage is pathetic these days

  221. the fans care, but fatty Francesa does not. but fatty, since he went solo, ignores it entirely unless it is bad news like the Isles moving or stuff like that.

    why should fatty get a pass? it is he more than anyone who ignores hockey.

  222. Now your talkin Rick – make some power moves. Only thing you’ll have to contend with is that guy…. What’s his name again…. Oh yea, AFRAUD.

  223. Speaking of bad coaching, has Therrien in Pittsburgh been studying tapes of Tom “2-1″ Renney? It seems like he is now trying to win 2-1 games with Crosby and Malkin.

  224. Fatty gets a pass b/c Fatty will someone bring the yankees into the discussion. It should be interesting to hear his thoughts on A-Roid tomorrow.

  225. “”I’m just throwing this out there, with not a hint of a rumor or anything, honest to god. But is it possible that no coaching change was made today because this was the day all the corporate sponsors and their families were visiting the practice rink?

    Just a wild theory. Nothing more.””

  226. Something tells me that if Shoenfeld took the Head coaching Job, Sather would be fired and Jim would be given the Head Coach/GM job.

  227. Orr,

    You obviously have zero class. Take a book out on Renney the guy has class.

    Its disgusting how bad society is with the fire this, someone is on ‘roids crap.

  228. Good Luck Rick

    I am a 30 plus year Ranger fan and a 16 year season ticket holder. Fridays game was the last straw for me. I want Renney replaced. You cannot blame 20 players. The coaches are rotten on this team. They are minor leaugue caliber at best. I am done with the Rangers until the coaching staff is replaced.

  229. Coaches are fired on game days. Espo fired Bergeron on a game day and I think Freddie Shero was gassed by Craig Patrick before a game.

  230. Guys –

    this is way to simple to throw on Renny. This guy knows how to coach – he puts together what he has and then they have to play – what does he really have to work with here? Prucha in for sure – I would let Voros and Dawes go – what do they bring?

    Dont look now, but Shanny has 4 points in seven games – and three pp goals! That is NOT Renny, that is the management!

  231. e.m. @ 8:19pm

    right, Orr. Peter Laviolette won the cup in Carolina, and he was fired in mid season. but these guys think that renney deserves some kind of sainthood for winning zippo, nada ,NOTHING.

    he deserves nothing but a boot out the door.

    Good post!

  232. little green men on

    I agree that you make this type of announcement on gameday.
    Whoever comes in let’s hope they take no shyte from these lazy millionaires!

  233. Different line combos yet again. Yeah, that’ll do the trick. This group of guys doesn’t even play as a team, they are so scrambled up. I’ve noticed that they almost never try to pass on an offensive rush, rare though they may be. They always shoot even when a team mate is wide open to receive a pass. The rest of the time is spent running into each other like Keystone Cops. I’ve never seen another team play like these guys have been playing. Lack of leadership and direction is blatantly apparent.

  234. zZzZ 13 ZzZz rules!! .....says Greg L. on

    we cant score at all lately and we let in 10 goals our last game…and were 6 pts from being outta the playoffs…tomorow night is a must win !!! Time to slaughter those dumbass devils!!!! Yo Rick , nice to have your imput on here …wise n up some of these knuckleheads on here.

  235. why would Florida be willing to move Horton?

    I read this…

    why not trade him to the rangers?/ He is big and young and underachieving but has potential…

    they need a center!!They are to cheap to want GOmer aren’t they?

  236. Horton???? He’s waaaay to young for the Rangers. Lets wait until he’s been in the league 10 years and has had some success, then we’ll go after him.

  237. I keep thinking how bad things are but could you imagine how much worse it would have been if injuries had struck them this year, say Henrik, Staal or Girardi? They have been healthy all year.

  238. HockeymanRangers on

    Not expecting to much with the line changes. I keep thinking that maybe some how this team can have a change of heart and start playing with some. But I am not sure that can happen with Renny behind the bench, maybe to much damage has been done. It really does look like Renny has lost the team, they have no faith in his system anymore. If we make the playoffs I will be surprised.

    I can give a crap about Avery, win or loose I think we should go on with out him.

  239. Nathan Horton for Gomez??

    At this point, I would trade Gomez for Horton Hears a Who…and throw in Dr Seuss

  240. This forecheck discussion is excellent, and provides real insight on where people are coming from. Either you get the 6:05 post by Ford, explaining what a real, San Jose-style forecheck is all about, or you don’t. Renney, the supposed x’s and o’s genius, clearly does not get it, nor do his pitiful defenders on this thread like William and MHurley. It’s a shame, really, because most of us who do get it just want to see our team win, and understand they’re capable of doing more than what we’re seeing.

  241. So I took a nap… and here is what I was dreaming about:
    I’m at the game… MSG is completely empty …I am all alone…sitting right along the middle of the ice… Rangers are playing against some team… I couldn’t make what team it was… Rangers are on the attack from their own zone… Redden leads the rush up the ice…makes a great first pass and at the same time body checks the opposing player hard into the boards… Gomez takes the puck and with incredible speed goes right from our blue line into the opposing teams’ zone… and then all over sudden I start seeing what Gomez is seeing… I had this great on ice vision where everything is in slow motion! I see Orr is skating hard and calling for the puck… Gomez (I still feel that it is me on ice not Gomez) passes the puck to Orr… Orr make few powerful dekes around two players…then he makes blind tape to tape pass to Betts who for some reason looked like a Tin Man and instead of the stick he had a golf club!… Betts w/o hesitating at all takes a slap shot. So he shoots the puck and it hits Voros who is standing right in front of the net and eating Wendys double bacon cheeseburger… the puck knocks the sandwich out of his hands, sandwich flies away and Voros now chewing on the puck thinking it’s his sandwich! Everyone look confused and doesn’t know what to do… so they all looking at the bench and Tom Renney is standing there with the sandwich on his head… the lettuce…the bacon…the mayo… everything is on his head… he swallows his gum…and says: “I’m not ready to wave the white flag on . We will have better nights than tonight.”
    After that I woke from some intense feeling as if someone liked my ear… and I was right…it was my cat! His name is Goon… weird … Carp, any idea what that might mean?

  242. so whats goin on renny still here huh? lol hes not goin nowhere till seasons end. dr seuss huh? throw in some green eggs n ham and im there

  243. cccp- i have been having dreams about the rangers and are playing but they have different players. but still lose. hmmm. no really i do. lol ur dreams are very intricate. mine are more abstract and jump from the rangers losing to my ex wife to my crappy job and then its all sort of like a bad acid trip from then on until i wake up. i think i need a vacation

  244. cccp i have same sort of dreams where im on ice seeing what the player sees. its usually not good. lol thats funny though we have similar nightmares

  245. anybody remember bruno sammartino the wrestler? i had a dream that him, koko beware and superfly jimmy snooger were all new york rangers and it was a cross between hockey and wwf. had that dream about 15 years ago but still remember it. usually i forget them but not this one

  246. Why are we fighting the drop in the standings? Let’s focus on having our best amateur fraft in J. I mean every one we pick should be a keeper. Who cares if we make it thru a round or two of the playoffs. So many teams that have fallen to the bottom of the barrel in recent years (Washington, Pitt, Philly, Chicago, etc.) are being extolled by the nedia for the great, young powerhouses they have be come. People seem to forget the garbage teams they iced and the high draft picks they received year after year. All this while the Rangers played the mediocre game getting picks from 12th to 20th. We let Parise go in 2003, pick a winner in Staal in 2005 and have our best pick Cherepanov collapseand die at age 19 (2007). Let’s focus on a very low finish and quality draft picks. Renney’s a one trick pony whose career as a coach grades out at B+, nice, but this organization needs to bottom out and restock.

  247. HOUSE

    Haha, class ? What do you call what Renney does to Prucha ? On top of that he makes him do bag skates, and puts him through hell when he hasn’t played a game in fuggin weeks, but he’s forced to do it, and doesn’t complain. Umm, unless you’re a complete idiot, that’s as classless as it gets. Every excuse he makes, just makes no sense.

    Like i said, Pruchs isn’t gonna lead this team in goals, and lead this team to the playoffs, i mean the kid doesn’t have a single playoff goal, but he plays with heart, and massive passion, unlike this pathetic excuse of a team, yet he stays buried in the press box. Renney is sooo classy. Wake up already.

  248. akayama- cmon man you never know what will happen you never tank dude. not unless thres no hope or realistic chance left. even then you wanna win some. dont say crap like that were not even close to finishing last and getting tavares or hedman or a top 5 pick. i would rather we tried and lost than not have tried at all. i see how u want the good draft pick but u know what, what round did hank go
    ? 7th? we got jessiwoman on the 12th pick right overall? its a crapshoot man why blow it all now just for a guy who could be a good player in 2-3 years or even longer.

  249. Bad Teams become Great Teams. Great Teams become bad teams. Mediocre Teams stay Mediocre. Why? Because Bad Teams get great picks who turn into great players. Mediocre teams get the picks in the middle which..keeps the teams in the middle. The great teams get bad picks which makes them bad. Right now where in the middle. What we have to do is have a GM that understands that. Instead of making this team go at a stand still and cover up our flaws, let the kids develop, get better prospects and build from the ground up.

  250. I know picks can bust and they’re are many variables but when it comes down to it, thats how the system works.

  251. most of detroits players were low picks. they developed them properly. u know what. i would guess that if jessiman had been in the redwings organization he probably would be playing in the nhl now. im not saying he def. would but look at korpikoski, hes got 3 goals he was a 1st rounder 4-5 years ago. it seems that maybe we arent developing these young guys into great players, and alot of young guys we traded became good players in the league now or in the past. i mean we cant have that bad of luck in drafting.

  252. matt- ur right in a way but look at edmonton in 03-04, yea they didnt win but they were the 8th seed and came very close to winning while not being that good a team in the regular season. u never know what can happen and the main goal of a hcokey player , ahockey team, coach etc… is to win the cup. now i can see if we were totally out of the playoff picture with maybe 15 games to go but we only lost 4 in a row. we still have a good chance to gain some ground and if we get some key players maybe not huge deals but add some gritty players we can go for it. we make the playoffs we have a 1 in 16 chance of winning. i dont know i just never like giving up because u never know what could happen.

  253. mike in IA, I agree

    No way Detroit’s been bad Matt and they’ve been winning team for how many years? Too many, this organization needs to become respectable because it’s been a joke for too long…

    No problem making money, the fans show up give us a team that can compete every year and is fun to watch… I don’t need a cup every year, but a deep playoff run every so often and fun hockey too watch… This year has been Booooooooring

  254. Here is my prediction for tonights game vs NJ….

    Rangers will play a very tight game and win 3-1. The crystal ball has Callahan, Zherdev and Rozy as the goal scoers. Henrik will be in lock down mode and focused.

    Ranger fans will continue to argue about Renney & Avery situations which is now mucked by a win.

    In the post game interview, Gomez will use the phrase “what can you say” about 4 times.

  255. CCCP. I’m not sure what that dream means, but it scares the heck out of me. I’m going to bed now, but I doubt I’ll be able to sleep, afraid that Voros’ sandwich might end up on my head, my cat licking my ear.

    One thing in your dream, though … the Tin Man has no heart. I don’t think that’s a fair comparison to Betts. I can think of a few other Tin Men, though. And Cowardly Lions. And brainless Scarecrows. And Toto, too.

    So we’re off to Oz, which is in Newark. Watch the Rangers shock all of us and win 5-2.

  256. “Here we go again. Another blog post about line combos, locker room cancer Avery returning—and yet not a single mention of this disastrous coach and the need for him to go.
    I think it’s fair to say that you guys in the media care more about maintaining your press credentials and access to the team than actually doing your jobs.
    Your coverage and analysis of the team has become a bigger joke than Barack Obama’s tax-cheating cabinet picks.”

    Hilarious. People always talk about how tough NYC is to play in, that there’s a spotlight here and that it’s such a huge stage…yet it gets about three seconds of local coverage after high school basketball by the likes of Len Berman.

    Even WFAN puts NHL on the second, even third burner if the Devs play the Rangers.

    So, it’s no surprise when there’s no hard-nosed coverage. I always thought it’d suck to be Renney after the post games. But nobody grilles him, so, he sleepwalks through interviews. So it seems.

  257. evitageN February 9th, 2009 at 12:04 am

    No way Detroit’s been bad Matt and they’ve been winning team for how many years? Too many, this organization needs to become respectable because it’s been a joke for too long…

    No problem making money, the fans show up give us a team that can compete every year and is fun to watch… I don’t need a cup every year, but a deep playoff run every so often and fun hockey too watch… This year has been Booooooooring

    No way the Wings have been bad? Before Yzerman they hadn’t won since Howe. Remember the “Dead Wings”

  258. Carpy, I think Renney putting Voros on the 4th line with Orr and Betts is to match him up with Clarkson. After seeing what Steve Ott did to us on Friday night, Voros will battle with Clarkson and that will lure C. Orr to step in to take care of the dirty work. Mike Rupp will try to keep Orr away from Dave Clarkson

  259. t

    “This forecheck discussion is excellent, and provides real insight on where people are coming from. Either you get the 6:05 post by Ford, explaining what a real, San Jose-style forecheck is all about, or you don’t. Renney, the supposed x’s and o’s genius, clearly does not get it, nor do his pitiful defenders on this thread like William and MHurley. It’s a shame, really, because most of us who do get it just want to see our team win, and understand they’re capable of doing more than what we’re seeing.”

    pitiful defenders? …are we talking about hockey still? since when are the players not responsible either? 29-19-5…

    t… do you boo your friends and family too or just your own team and coaches?


  260. hey orr- just think if wash had drafted staal. hed prob have 10- 15 goals by now and half on the powerplay. naa lol but if he works on his shot look out baby. he is starting to join the rush more and sometimes even lead it so u can see hes gettin more comfortable and taking the offensive aspect to a different level. hopefully he gets pp time and can get more of a qb role that redden supposedly has. idk man but redden looks shot all the time. u can see hes battling either deppression from sucking so hard or hes been makin the rounds late at night stalking the alleys

  261. orr were befrigged right now. and renny n co. are befuddled at how this team can suck so bad that they are willing to get aves back to fix our little problem while simoultaneously screwing themselves when its time to resign zherdev and /or doobs. if aves comes back u know pruchs is gone, masybe dawes and voros too. but i cant see them gbringin aves up and not dumpin 2-3 guys for space. maybe this whole aves thing is to get the team fired up and win some games so they dont need him but so far its backfired if thats the plan. its comical though i would like to see the good ole boy back in blue just for n giggles

  262. k its late maybe i should get some sleep. im lookin out my window i think i see wade walkin around lookin paranoid. hey orr and everyone else wantin to se a cool movie and divert themselves from ranger dreamland for awhile, check out the movie rocknrolla, its pretty fricken hilarious. guy ritchies the man. now that hes free from madonna

  263. Nothing like holding people accountable Renney. Great job once again. It’s funny how he talks tough lately, but doesn’t do anything about it. No wonder this team sucks. I’m getting more and more frustrated by the day with this team.

  264. Well Carp guess you are glad you came back to covering the Rangers now aren’t you?

    Here is a memo for those who even think of Carp as a Yes Man for MSG:

    There was only one member of the Ranger beat media who openly said that Sather was the wrong guy for the GM job. Want to guess his name?

    While 95% of the Ranger fans were begging for Glen Sather to be hired, only Carpy here was detailing exactly why it was the wrong idea.

    Had there been blogs back when Sather was hired I wonder how many of you would have tarred and feathered Carpy?

    Even lamer is that other than Andrew Gross how many of the beat reporters take the time to answer your questions? Uh huh that is what I thought.

    Thanks to the Cablevision mindset that says all media is bad they make it almost impossible for someone like Carpy and Gross to do their jobs.

    I have experienced it myself and thank you very much I will stick to covering prospects and let guys like Carpy cover the Rangers during the bad times like this one.

    Go right ahead and see if you can get a straight answer out of Gomez after even a good night for him?

    You can ask all the tough questions in the world but when you get nothing but lame responses then there really is nothing can do but throw your hands up in frustration.

    And how many of you are willing to say that you wanted Sather when he was hired? How many of you swore that Sather was going to rescue the Rangers from the evils of Neil Smith?

    How many of you are willing to say that you were happy that the Rangers signed Gomez and Drury at the same time now?

    Yet people want to trash Carpy here because they do not think he is doing his job as a journalist? Get real please

    Yes Tom Renney needs to be replaced because the players have stabbed him in the back with their play. Renney bent over backwards for this roster and the players kicked him in the rear.

    But if any of you think that Sather will hire a Torterella or a Laviolette thinking that will fix things then you are sadly mistaken.

    If you think blaming Carpy here is going to make things better then you are even more wrong.

  265. Jess, if we’d had a plethora of “can’t miss” winger prospects and a projected cap rise every year for the next 5 years then signing Dru and Gomer would have been a masterstroke. Unfortunately, we have a lot of projected (and legit) 2nd/3rd/4th line wingers in our system and a cap which might not rise much in the next year or two. Slats is also looking bad because the guys themselves aren’t blowing anyone away with their play and stats (partially hand-cuffed by the “system” installed by the coach).

    One thing that is evident is this team is very “vanilla” and doesn’t play with much of an edge or personality. I think Avery can add that to the team and at the cost of <$2m a year we can certainly make room for him as long as he is a pain to the opposition but not to his own team-mates. If someone claims him ahead of us on waivers, so be it – but this team needs a spark from somewhere.

    If Slats and Renney can’t take us deeper into the play-offs this year, then both should go. Messier as GM? Can we trust a novice GM? As for coach, New Yorkers will demand a big name, but shouldn’t Jim Schoenfeld get a chance?

  266. Mess as GM would be pretty close to Sather I think. They pretty much have the same network.

    Mess as a coach just makes so much sense to me. A natural leader of men. Should have been working on it in juniors an getting ready for the opportunity. Mess would get the thrill of being under the Garden lights every night winning and losing with his team again. As GM he will be hidden upstairs, not getting the attention he loves.

  267. Salty – you’re probably right, i think he wants the attention and spotlight and a coach would certainly get that on a daily basis.

    Did anyone read Brooks today? How on earth it would be in our interests to absorb Avery’s 3 years at $4m per year – i’m puzzled? We’ve already got a bunch of big contracts which aren;t going anywhere. If we can get him for $2m or less it makes a hundred times more sense.

  268. UK, if Avery does not get picked up by a team lower than us in the standings we can have him at half his salary. Start reading some articles./

  269. Kris – i read them. I know the rules about re-entry waivers and half the cap hit. If you’re going to comment say something constructive.

    What Brooks is saying is why waste time and risk exposing him to re-entry waivers. Well simple Larry, if we trade for him now we get a $4m cap hit per season, if we claim on re-entry waivers its half the salary (ie $2m per). Its a risk, but to save $2m per over the next 3 years its worth it. Lets face it, we’re up against it with the contracts we have.

  270. 0necupin67years on

    In todays’ NYPost , I can’t stand Renney’s use of the term “watershed moment” and nonsensical term. Just say desperate Tom you are desperate.

  271. UKRanger- Brooks is saying they should put him on re-entry right away so no team gets a look at him. We would take on half the salary.

    It would be the smart play for the Rangers to accelerate the process rather than allowing the Stars to assign Avery to the Blueshirts’ AHL Hartford affiliate for an indeterminate period of time before going the re-entry route.

    The Rangers gain nothing by allowing teams to get a free look at Avery for a week or two before deciding whether to pluck him. That’s a time frame in which some club might suffer a series of injuries and thereby choose to take a shot at him. If any team wants him, the Rangers should force the decision to be made immediately, sight unseen.

  272. in other news a confirmed source has just told me- the big strong power forward aaron voros will be replacing the weary, broken down petr prucha for tonights game. i have to say this move may pay off with the added grit and intensity and scoring prowess that aaron brings. petr has been pointless in the rangers last 10 games even while being scratched and is thought to be the reason for the rangers struggles as of late. his big smile and charming personality and dtermination combined with heart and hustle has been a distraction to the rest of the team. scott gomez added” what can ya say”, and ” hey nice hat” when asked about the roster change. head coach tom renny told us he was expecting to get petr into a rigorous training plan to help shed some pounds and get him back in shape so he doesnt tire so fast and breakl down after 3 games. the lean mean aaron voros will be looking to extend his penalty streak of 40 consecutive games, in which 29 of those games have been wins when voros takes a penalty.

  273. mark- some flyers and pens fans want avery on their team. alot of teams will take him on for half the salary.although i think the rangers really could use him now, where does that leave us cap wise? idk if things will be the same as they were the 1st time around with him.

  274. Mark – yeah, you’re right – i guess i read it wrong (you know 2+2 = 5).

    There’s a few teams below us that might welcome a spark too. Lets hope they can rush it through before any other team can organise themselves enough to claim him.
    Cap-wise i think we are fine, he should only hit us for about $650k against the cap and we have enough for that (according to Presumably someone would get demoted, waived or traded anyway (prucha, voros?) to make room on the roster.

  275. mike in Ia

    “”petr has been pointless in the rangers last 10 games even while being scratched and is thought to be the reason for the rangers struggles as of late. his big smile and charming personality and dtermination combined with heart and hustle has been a distraction to the rest of the team. scott gomez added” what can ya say”, and ” hey nice hat” when asked about the roster change. head coach tom renny told us he was expecting to get petr into a rigorous training plan to help shed some pounds and get him back in shape so he doesnt tire so fast and breakl down after 3 games. the lean mean aaron voros will be looking to extend his penalty streak of 40 consecutive games, in which 29 of those games have been wins when voros takes a penalty.””


  276. Avery situation is win-win; if we get him great!, If we dont thats not the end of the world either….and someone else spends the money for three years….

  277. IF renney’s fired soon…

    How long till he’s back behind the bench.

    I say he gets a job next year… he’ll probably be a hot commodity in the off season.

  278. HockeymanRangers on

    I said last night that I didn’t care one way or the other about Ave’s, but now that I think about it. IF and it a big IF, if Avery can come and JUST play hockey he could help the Rangers this year. But he can not be a distraction to the our struggling team, he must come play hockey and that’s it. But we still WILL NOT go far if we even make the play offs.

    Hopefully we get the NEW, NEW YORK RANGER TEAM TONIGHT.

  279. Does anyone have any theories on what it was that made Redden good back in his earlier Ottawa days? And, how he got so lost? Was it that he just lucky enough to land on a great team? I admittedly didn’t watch him that closely back then, so I’ve never known anything but the Redden we all know and love today.

  280. KPh
    My girlfriend is a big Ottawa fan…we watched them from 2003 on wards

    Redden was always mediocre in his own end; he had guys like Chris Phillups and sometimes Chara playing as a partner; what he excelled at was the first pass out…he played on an attacking team…if you saw Heatley-Spezza and Afie and Redden on the PP and you were a Ranger fan you would think their PP was from another planet…thats how good it was…

    To be honest; he has slipped but he was never a defense-first defenseman..bottom line; getting Redden to play in Renny-sysytem is like Yanks signing Sabathia to play catcher…makes no sense

  281. doodie machetto on

    Aren’t reporters not supposed to be biased? If Brooks was any more pro-Avery I think he would be stalking him.

    I get WHY Brooks likes Avery: the guys is a walking news story. Great for Larry. But not only should the team not take Avery at all (for cap reasons), Brooks wants to take him sight unseen! Unbelievable.

    Larry, you’ve really outdone yourself. Now go watch Avery on MTV Cribs for the 11000th time while you cut out magazine and newspaper clippings of him to add to your Sean Avery altar.

  282. Comments like these make me not want to read anything other than Carp (and a few loyal posters) comments.

    “Rooting for the Devils tonight. Let’s get Renney out of here.”

    Myabe it’s me, but I wouldn’t even root for the Devils if we were playing them the last game of the season and our losing was dependent on us getting the #1 draft pick the following year who’s supposed to be the next Gretzky/Lemieux/Lindros.

    Beating the Devils and Islanders is the #1 priority. Actually rooting for your team to lose b/c you think it has an impact on the coaching decision is absolutely ridiculous.

    If any of you are hoping the Devils win tonight, for whatever the reason, you probably either live in Colorado and can’t relate to the magnitude of the rivalry, or you’re just a bad fan, point period.

  283. Doodie
    You know when Brooks is playing hockey-alone in his driveway- that he pretends to be Aves…he knocks aver big red plastic garbage can ( thats Marty )and makes that crowd-cheering sound…like Bill Murray in Caddyshack!!

  284. Brooks has enough longevity that he doesn’t have to report like a wire reporter, a la Michael Obenauer (spelling?) of the Daily News. Poor guy is so nervous to be the Rangers beat writer he reports like he’s a member of the Associated Press.

    Brooks’ writing is more so editorial. It’s his column. He may be the primary game reporter, but you’ll notice he doesn’t do much as far as game recap is concerned.

  285. doodie machetto on

    “Myabe it’s me, but I wouldn’t even root for the Devils if we were playing them the last game of the season and our losing was dependent on us getting the #1 draft pick the following year who’s supposed to be the next Gretzky/Lemieux/Lindros.”

    Well for a Gretzky/Lemieux… I think I would. Technically that’s what the Pens did in 1984.

    For Lindros, I would, but then only to trade the pick. Just like Quebec.

    But I get what you’re saying Brandon and I agree. I’m just nitpicking.

    Rooting against your team to help facilitate a coaching change is pretty stupid. Wouldn’t you prefer that they win every game for the rest of the season and the Stanley Cup? I’m just saying that if you’re going to be rooting for something, wouldn’t it be that? In between games you can hope the coach gets fired if they’ve been losing, but once that puck drops, how could you not want them to win (unless we’re talking about the aforementioned Gretzky/Lemieux scenario)?

  286. doodie machetto on

    Brandon, even so, his role in the Avery arbitration and contract negotiations was going beyond reporting. It was becoming the story, influencing the events upon which he was supposed to be reporting. That’s just wrong.

  287. Squeaking out a 2-1 win over NJ doesn’t fix anything and only puts a bandaid over the fact that this team, currently configured, is a dead-end endeavor both coaching and personnel wise. I want whatever catalyst is necessary to effect change to happen, and to happen as soon as possible. The fact that a guy on the internet thinks I’m a bad fan has, quite frankly, ruined my day but I’m going to try my best to move on and get over it. It may take a while, but I think I’ll be okay.

  288. To root against Rangers to get coach fired assumes that this game is a stand-alone point of history…its not

  289. HockeymanRangers on

    Well maybe if the players have really lost all respect for Renny we will see it tonight. If they do not respond with SOMETHING (anything, like how about a goal from in front of the net)tonight maybe they are making a statement that they want Renny gone along with half of the fans. I am not a huge fan of anyone loosing their job, but we ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS for the last 3 or 4 years have trouble scoring. And I DO believe it has more to do with the Renny system more than anything else. My opinion.

  290. Assuming that Tom Renney, who is about to be gone (keeping fingers crossed) and Jagr and Shanahan who arent here anymore… all knew how to handle “anger” outbursts of avery…who will control Avery when the times call for it now if he indeed joins the team?

  291. “who will control Avery when the times call for it now if he indeed joins the team?”

    I’m available

  292. Been a Rangers fan for 35 + years,So all I’ve got to say is “let’s go Devils” and Let’s go any other team til Renney is gone,,,,,,

  293. Where I come from and where I sit in the building, every game against the Islanders or Devils should be played like game 7 of the Cup finals.

    Regardless of where the two teams sit in the standings, it’s a rivalry, and while I might not lose sleep over a 2-1 loss to the Thrashers or even a 10-2 loss to the Stars, losing to the Devils/Islanders can really effect my week.

    So, if it gives you an erection to think that Tom Renney is going to be fired b/c of his team’s performance on one night, tonight agains the Devils, than grab yourself some vaseline and root for the rats across the river.

    If you could care less if the Easter Bunny himself was coaching tonight b/c it’s Rangers v. Devils then grab a beer and cheer on your favorite team.

  294. I don’t want Avery to come back – but for different reasons. I do think he’d help the team, BUT…

    All he would do is make the team just good enough to make the playoffs, and extend Renney’s miserable employment here. Another first or second round exit, and back to business as usual.

    We need to miss the playoffs, totally clean out the coaching staff, get the best possible draft pick, and install a forechecking system with a coach who knows how to put players in a position to succeed.

    The new coach must be someone with a good track record. He has to be a coach who has had success before, someone that the players will respect. Someone who won’t lick Sather’s boots. If Sather won’t hire that person, then he must go as well.

    Bringing in Avery will only postpone the inevitable. Like putting a band-aid on a malignant tumor.

  295. Its a tough deal right now…I think Rangers are stuck in Renny-nuetral…I cant see this passive team; coached by this passive double-talking coach getting past the first round-the second at best….but I fear that all Renny has to do is make playoffs again and he’ll stay…people crying “what about all those years we missed the playoffs?”…so yeah I feel for the ranger fan who actually wants them to crash and burn so he’s gone…”its an interesting ethical dilemna”

  296. Dear Rangers,

    Please destroy Devils.

    Warm regards,

    ps- If Renney is truly a detriment to this team a win against the devils will only delay the inevitable. Oh what a sweet sweet delay…

  297. Wow 368 comments?? Hockey is more popular than I thought. Then why doesn’t anyone watch it? Why are so many franchises nearly bankrupt??


  298. Avery is a punk. And the fact that Elizabeth Cuthbert dated him for more than a second, removed her from my “fabulous people who are actually smart” list. She now resides on my
    “just another unexplainable manniquin” list.

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