Let the discussion begin. Yikes!


Thank you for your participation last night and this morning. I feel like a school teacher now.

I knew we wouldn’t be able to do a simple YES or NO thing, and that people would stuff the ballot box with fake names … so I’m not going to go through and count ‘em up. If somebody wants to do that, thank you.

But we got enough of an idea that it’s certainly not unanimous or anything close. It’s almost 50-50. At least, it’s a legit discussion/argument. Not nearly as one-sided as I feared.

I just wanted to know that not everybody feels the same way.

I’m putting my cards on the table now.

I like Tom Renney. He’s a true gentleman, first and foremost. I think he’s a really good coach, the best the Rangers have had since Colin Campbell. That’s not saying much when the only competent coach they’ve had in that span is John Tortorella for about five minutes. 

Renney is off-the-charts intelligent. As far as hockey, he forgets more hockey every day than all of us combined have ever known.

Fact: He will probably be fired if the Rangers go down in flames in the playoffs. Fact: A lot of you would probably prefer the Rangers go down in flames in the playoffs than for them to go to the conference final, just to get rid of him.

Now, a lot of you make good points about his lineup decisions, about his role in the flailing power play, about his role in the too-many-men penalties. I don’t understand the whole Prucha situation (but I plan to ask him this week).  He doesn’t seem to hold his top players as accountable as he does Prucha.

I do understand the Rangers playing a defense-first system, even if it is boring. For all those Muckler-Low-Trottier-Sather years (which, you might have noticed, all ended with no playoffs), the Rangers were near the bottom of the NHL in goals-against average. In fact, during that drought, almost every year, the teams that didn’t make the playoffs across the board in the NHL were the same teams at the bottom of the GAA list. So Renney got them to pay attention to GAA, decided that was priority No. 1, and has gotten them into the playoffs … going on four years in a row.

Then you throw this year’s roster changes into the equation. No Jagr. No Shanahan. No Straka.  No Avery (I had to name him, even though I don’t think the offense misses him a bit). How the heck is Renney supposed to unleash an attack (that was Muckler-Low-Trottier-Sather’s system) offense when his top goal scorers are stuck on 15 (the Devils’ top two scorers have 29 and 22, and they play defense-first).

If he tries to play the style they played the last 14 minutes of the third period Saturday, especially with the lack of counter-punch they have, the Rangers will lose 10-2 or 10-4 or 8-5.

Anyway, every one of these teams that puts on the Cinderella outfit and goes to the Stanley Cup finals does it by playing some form of the trap. Year after year after blessed year.

If you play back, dump it and send one guy on the forecheck, then that guy has to be hard on the forecheck, and he needs support, and the spacing on the back side can’t get too far apart or you’re going to have problems. And if you play without intensity, even when playing a “passive” system, you’re going to look awful, as the Rangers did at times Saturday and for the entire third period at Pittsburgh.

I know somebody’s going to throw in my face that I defended Colin Campbell to the end, and beyond. I did. Why? How about seven playoff series in his first three years? How about stepping into a really difficult situation, replacing Mike Keenan, following a championship and then a lockout, with an aging team that had traded a good bunch of its youth (Amonte, Weight) to win that one Cup (which was worth it). He coached a dreadful, beaten-up lineup to the conference final in ’97. Then had to survive the organizational kick-out-the-door of Messier, which was going to doom whomever was the coach at that time.

My best argument for keeping Campbell — who was the X’s and O’s wizard behind Keenan’s maniacal but successful mind-game motivation, who was responsible for the gameplan to win Game 7 vs. Vancouver after it all fell apart as Keenan was negotiating with other teams – was this:

Who are they going to hire who’s better? So, while I generally back and like Renney, I am not begging that he stay, either. I’m not anointing him Scotty Bowman or Al Arbour or even Keenan.

But if you let him go, who are you bringing in? Tortorella? I’m down with that. But do you think the guy in charge is capable of handling another search for a coach? Let’s try to remember that the guy in charge has had the opportunity at different times to hire Tortorella, Keenan, Pat Burns, Joel Quenneville, Ken Hitchcock, John Paddock, Bob Hartley. Instead, he hired Low. Then he passed on several of those guys, especially Keenan and Burns, who both wanted the job, to hire Trottier. Then he got turned down by Jim Schoenfeld and wound up with Renney almost by default.

I think Renney’s done a darn good job, and his system and his goalie give the Rangers a shot every year to at least get in and maybe make some noise. This team ain’t built to make any noise because it can’t score. That’s not on the coach. A lot of other stuff may be on him, but the fact that he has all these second and third-line players are not on him.

Worse, Renney is trying to play defense-first with a team with one frontline defenseman, and he’s a kid still learning. And he’s trying to jump-start his dreadful power play without a point man … he hasn’t had one since Brian Leetch … and without a guy who can stand in front and get tips and rebounds. Good luck with that.

I don’t think, as some of you have put it, that Brent Sutter could swim across the Hudson and make this all better if they were to switch places. I don’t … and I seem to recall Renney outcoaching Sutter in a playoff series last year. I don’t think a coaching change fixes much at all.

That all said, this is a poorly constructed team with very little coming in terms of top prospects, very little cap room to get help via trades or free agents next summer. And you can all stop PLEASE your ideas of Wade Redden being released, reassigned or bought out. It’s not happening. Ever. Same thing with the GM. He’s going nowhere until he wants to leave.

You are stuck with this, which is not as bad as some of you make it out to be, and not good enough where Prucha or the kid from Hartford, Artem Anisimov,is going to make a big difference … but geez, would it kill everybody to put them both in the lineup for a little while?

Want a new coach? Be careful what you wish for because you could do a lot worse. And probably would.

Whew. I really didn’t plan on giving my whole State-of-the-Rangers address so early. Now I will brace for the attacks, and hope I can survive to see the Super Bowl and Adam Graves Night. No vulgarities, please.

Seriously, though, I’d like to hear the arguments on either side, and please let’s not simply make it: He isn’t emotional or tough enough, or I don’t like his voice, or he’s lost the team, or it’s time, or I hate his ties. Let’s try to make some intelligent points on either side.





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  1. To elaborate, it’s not a coincidence that almost every player is having one of his worst production years, and most of our youth seems to be regressing. The inability to practice or address the power play in any manner has been criminal, the discipline has been completely inconsistent, and the inablility to adjust in game has been maddening. On top of that the large number of too many men penalties show how disorganized Tom’s bench is.

    The reality is that without Lundqvist carrying the team, Renney would have been fired several seasons ago.

  2. This team is poorly constructed, you are right. Its going to be a big problem the next few years digesting those long contracts of aging vets. Well I don’t like the way Renney coaches at all, I can’t really blame him because this team does not have the talent. They just rely on Lundqvist night in and night out. If he plays well then it was a greatly played defensive game, if he falters then he had a rough night and the defense is under the microscope again.

    I wish Renney would show some anger with his players. I hate reading after every awful loss that he is giving the team the next day off anyway. Its like a country club. I prefer a coach like a Keenan type who the players fear. It makes it more interesting.

    The mixing of lines every night drives me crazy. Its all season long too. Anyway, the rangers just dont have a well balanced roster on forward or defense. No grit on forward, no toughness on D, no PP specialist. Hardly anyone has a hard shot even. Sather seems like he is retired now, all he does is smoke cigars and do interviews with canadian writers only. Itd be nice to hear Sather go on WFAN once for an interviewed and get questioned.

  3. Carp,

    Why are the too many men penalties Renney’s fault? When I played, it was always the players responsiblity not to jump the gun coming off the bench.

    As for Renney, I’m in the minority. I say Keep Renney. There is not much talent on this team and Renney’s system keeps them in the playoff hunt. This wide-open style some fans want the Rangers to play would have them closer to the Islanders and Thrashers in the standings than the Devils and Flyers. People would really be complaining then!

  4. Renney is the only one who could’ve led the squad the past 3 years with Jagr and Straka (and Nylander/Rucinsky) on the team. Now, though, it seems as if his choices are killing them. Hold Prucha out… for what reason? So Gomez can not score again? The PP is a distaster, so what does he do? He puts the same 5 or 6 guys out every single game.

    It’s not his fault that Gomez can’t score and that Zherdev and Naslund disappear for weeks at a time. It’s not his fault that Redden can’t stop a player from going past him or score more than 2 goals this year. But it IS his fault that he keeps putting them on the ice in pressure situations when they WON’T score.

    Tough call, but if it’s another early exit, what else can be done?

  5. Hmm, are guys failing to score 15 goals because they lack the talent or because they play in a stifling defensive system with pretty much no offensive strategy to mention? It’s the chicken or the egg. Do they play defense first because they can’t score, or they can’t score because they play defense first. Renney apologists keep saying this team can’t play like they did in the 3rd because they’ll lose high scoring games. Where is the pool of refrence for this statement? They played nearly 50 minutes of aggressive hockey against the Wings and nearly won after going down 2-0 in the first 10 minutes. They absolutely have to increase the level of pressure and aggressiveness if they want to have a prayer.

  6. Carp, that was one of the best things I have ever read on here. Talk about taking a stance and backing it up. I agree 100%. Others will not agree, and that is totally cool, it makes the world go around.

  7. Wait Carp, are you actually implying that Ryan Callahan and Petr Prucha and Nigel Dawes and Aaron Voros and Fred Sjostrom aren’t 25-30 goal scorers?

    The audacity!

    Everyone knows it is Renney’s fault these players don’t put up those kind of numbers!

    Non one in front of the net on the powerplay!?

    We have Aaron Voros! Aaron Voros!!!!!

    The Anti-Renney crowd are the type of people who forget that this organization has won 1 Stanly Cup in 68 years, and are contributors to the reasons for it.

  8. Carp, you make some excellent points and i completely agree that Renney has gotten about 90% out of this flawed lineup. I think what bothers fans so much is that he is the face of the franchise right now, He is the only one you see in the interviews or behind the bench, because the rest of management is no where to be found. He is the poster boy for an extremely undersized (on both D and O), middle of the pack team that has spent all it’s marbles.

    For the past three years we have all been extremely happy with our beloved Rangers. But, I can’t speak for anyone else here, it seems that we have plateaued. The first year after the lockout, we made the playoffs. It was a jump back to respectability and the players worked their butts off each night. The second year we made the second round and maybe could have made it to the Finals. The third we hit a brick wall in the Pens and our “progress” came to a stand still. My point is, for the past three years our team was moving in the right direction. Now it feels we are in a state of limbo. When we lost Jagr, Straka, Shanny and Avery that phase of progress changed. It seems that the organization is caught between developing young players and trying for it right now.

    Look at the disparity between the Vets and the youth. Before the lockout, they said they weren’t going trade away young talent but at the same time they signed every over-aged vet to big contracts. I feel this is the same situation we are in now. Wether Redden, Naslund, Kalinin, Drury, Gomez are stopgaps until our prospects are ready it seems that the organization’ philosophy is being pulled in two directions. That will never work!

    The only difference between this team and the pre-lockout Rangers is Henrik Lundvquist and a 1-2-2.

    So after all of that, do I believe Renney is the problem? Definitely not. But is he the right coach for this team? I don’t know? Because I don’t know what type of team we are? Are we a contender, middle of the pack, playoff team, non-playoff team? I think they are all of the above.

  9. Carp – I am frustrated with the way Renney answers some of the questions that are asked of him. Here are two examples:

    Voros will be in the lineup for Prucha against Carolina for his size?? Carolina was the least penalized team and are not very tough. I thought we needed the scoring more. The outcome was fine but I did not see any great plays from Voros.

    This team needs to learn how to play for a full 60 minutes. I have stopped watching the post game reports because I was tired of hearing Renney say this same statement over and over. As the coach he needs to take anyone out of the lineup or sit them during the game if they are not playing a full 60 minutes. I think this statement makes him look worse than the players not giving their all.

  10. BrooklynRangersFan on

    To everyone who says there’s not enough talent, how can we know? Playing under Renney’s system, Kovalchuk would struggle to score more than 30 goals. Everyone who defends Renney takes it as a foregone conclusion that the players can’t play any other style and that’s why Renney has instituted it. I counter that other than the first few games of the season (which coincidentally are the only reason that this team is over .500), we haven’t seen them TRY another system.

    Both Sather and Renney were on record over the summer that this roster was constructed to play a speed-based pressure, counterattacking system. And it worked for the first ten games or so. But then, we give up a couple of bad goals (as will invariably happen when you actually, y’know, take an occasional risk), a kid takes a couple of penalties for overexuberance (Dubinsky), and there we are playing the most defensively oriented brand of hockey since the Devils of the late ’90s.

    There is a reason Gomez and Drury fetched what they did on the open market. The contract that Briere received indicates that they were representative of the going rate. They both put up pretty good numbers – frequently against the Rangers – playing exactly the system that Slats and Renney advocated over the summer, but which TR abandoned. (I will grant you that I think Slats was probably bidding against himself when it comes to Redden – but then didn’t Renney’s right hand man, Pearn, have a lot to do with that?) The kids on the team also have the right skillset to play that way (and I base this on the performance I’ve seen on the rare occasions when they do open it up as well as the numbers most of them have put up while coming up), but the system that Renney has put in place stifles that creativity, punishes any sort of risk taking, and I fear is actually causing several of them to regress to the point where they not only won’t help the Rangers win directly, they’ll also be useless as trade chips.

    To expect ANYone to score while always starting from their own end, going in to the opposition zone with all five defenders back while only one other forward attacks and with the defensmen ALWAYS drifting back rather than pinching is silliness. But that’s the way it’ll always be with Renney at the helm – he’s one of those over-controlling coaches who always thinks that the aspect of the game where he has the most impact (i.e. team defense) is the most important thing and offense, where he has to rely more on the skill of his players and let them make the occassional mistake, is secondary. Go get Laviolette, Slats.

  11. Wow, that was AWESOME! Who needs Sam when you have Carp?

    I couldn’t agree more with every single point you made. That sums up the state-of-the-rangers in a nutshell.

    This team has PERSONNEL problems. That’s where it begins, that’s where it ends.

    Glen Sather is just another Isaih Thomas without the social, controversial and legal issues.

    Alike Thomas, the only success he’s had is in the past, of which none was with the Rangers.

    For whatever reason, Dolan loves him, and despite his DISGRACEFUL “decision-making” and MAJOR blunders, he keeps him on board.

    It took extreme measures to get rid of Thomas and I imagine it will take a retirement to lose Slats.

    He hasn’t given Renney anything to work with; and it’s been nothing but patch work, no plan, just sign whoever nonsense from day 1.

  12. the pro renney people seem to be satisfied with one round of the playoffs and done.carp reasoning for keeping renney is that he fears sathers decision to replace him. not that he is the coach to take them all the way. keeping a cpach that has maxed out, because you are afraid of the unknown is not going to get you the cup.

  13. i think you summed it up, when you said that Renney doesnt hold his players accountable. I think he has to grow a pair and bench gomez, redden, and although kalinin has been better it was ridiculous that he wasnt benched earlier in the season. What kind of message does it send to your players when you dont even carry a 7th d man as a healthy scratch?

    I also find it unacceptable that with the talent we have that we have been near the bottom of the league in scoring during his tenure. I understand Jagr unreal year in 2005-2006 but other than we can not simply score. Our special teams have become such a joke that receiving a man advantage is almost a negative based on the amount of short handed goals we have given up. Let alone that we have a better chance scoring on 5-5, which unfortunately is close to zero.

  14. Carp,

    Thanks for laying out your Ranger position from the start. It’s a lot more than any of the other bloggers are willing to do.

    That said, I think you are off base on a number of issues.

    Here’s my position: An intelligent person doesn’t necessarily make a good hockey coach.

    You have to have an intuitive grasp of in-game situations and players’ abilities in order to bring out the best in a hockey team. Renney has a mind-boggling lack of aptitude except for devising his vaunted “system”… which is totally wrong for this team.

    I’m a firm believer that Renney has held the team back this season. His misuse of players (square pegs in round holes) has destroyed any offensive cohesiveness. Long past the halfway point, he’s still juggling lines. Players have no time to develop chemistry with linemates.

    His meek and mild personality rubs off on the team, and as someone who has played on organized hockey teams, it’s important to have a coach that you can look up to and respect when it’s crunch time. Renney? I don’t think so.

    The Prucha situation is mind-boggling. I would love to get an explanation of Renney’s despicable treatment of Prucha. It sure looks to me as though Renney is trying to kill his career. Is Prucha a pawn between Sather wanting him and Renney NOT wanting him? IF that’s the case, Renney should be ashamed of himself. Prucha is the best conditioned, most loyal Ranger. He doesn’t deserve this shabby treatment.

    When Prucha got into a few games and scored a couple of big goals, it was obvious that the whole team loves him and wants him to succeed. Prucha’s specialty is the power play, yet Renney refuses to use him there, even though we have one of the worst power plays in the league. Is that intelligence? I don’t think so.

    Renney’s in-game bench management is nonexistent. When situations arise, Renney looks like a deer caught in the headlights. After almost four seasons this should NOT be happening any longer… but it is.

    Renney might be a talented hockey theoretician, but he just doesn’t have what it takes to take the Rangers to the next level. In 1993 Messier knew that Roger Neilson had to go in order to win a Cup… and Neilson was head and shoulders above Renney as a coach.

    I doubt that the Rangers have the pieces to win a Cup even with a better coach, but we need a change NOW in order to be ready next season, when Anisimov & Grachev will be ready, and maybe a tough veteran defenseman will be available to shore up the defense.

    Renney must go!

  15. Dear Rick,

    I agree with everything you have said.

    Renney, given the circumstances and the personnel he has been given to work with, has done a more then competant job. This team, as presently constructed, may not win the Stanley Cup. They have no powerplay. They cannot score the timely goal. When they do not play defense first, they most assuredly lose. Hell, yesterday’s game in Boston showed that they can lose even when they play defense first.

    Still, these Rangers are 11 games over .500. They have 62 points. If past seasons can be used as a yard stick, they will need at least 98 points to gain a playoff berth. They have 31 games (62 points)to the garner 36 points they need to make the playoffs.

    Many fans complain that Ranger games just not entertaining. They play the same boring defense first trap style that brought the hated Devils three Stanley Cups. The Rangers only play for the shootout. Yadda, yadda, yadda.

    Bottom line, you will never silence the haters. The Renney haters. The Sather haters. The Malik haters. The Redden haters. These people (and I use that term losely) can only be entertained by spewing their own venom. They will never be happy until the Rangers beat every opponent 10-2 and sweep to the Stanley Cup in 16 games. They just don’t get the concept of rebuild.

    Sather has made some ill-judged signings and lumbered Renney with more dead wood this season then any since the lockout. Sather’s contracts have hogtied the Rangers under the cap system. Still, each year Renney has managed to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.

    Patience is not the strong suit at the World’s Most Impatient Arena. As my friend Mitch Beck always points out to me, the word “fan” is short for Fanatic. I sometimes think Ranger fans believe they’re at an open casting call for a remake of “Lord of the Flies”.

    If Sather and Dolan dump Renney because of the ravings of a lunatic fringe of Ranger fans, the inmates will have truly taken over the asylum.

    I’ll shut up now. :)

  16. onecupin67years on

    Carp , great post with many good points.
    Renney is not the only capable coach out there to coach the rangers, each year new coaches come into the league and become successful.
    But, I think renney may be a victim of sather’s talent decision good or bad.
    I find fault with what appears to an outsiders(us) his motivational and bench skills.

    Prucha goes from 30 goal to single digits , why? his line mates , his skills? or renney’s system?

    I blame sather and Dolan for the cap mess, long term contracts on UFA and I blame renney for not lighting a fire under the players Asses.
    But with long term contracts and money you give the players the power not the coach.

    But if renney is such a genius maybe he should get fired and show us fans and the hockey world what a winning genius he really is by winning a few cups somewhere else.

    my bottom line is he can’t motivate these guys. true he doesn’t have a 30+ goal scorer, but everyone’s goal production is down, he burnt Jagr out by playing him too much, too many mental errors, by the players and renney.
    Dolan should wake up and get someone with a NEW hockey sense to right this team

  17. Hi Carp —
    Great write up – and I agree on more fronts then I thought I would.

    I sum up with this:

    Yes Renny is a better coach – but I watch less games.

    With 30 teams – each team has a shot of winning – but say you win 1 out of 30 years (less with the likes of Detroit in the league) — so all of a sudden 54 years isn’t a stretch anymore.

    I watch hockey for the sake of hockey entertainment – that is what I am not getting. A 10-5 loss is more fun to watch then a 2-1 win manytimes.

  18. Carp writes: “If he tries to play the style they played the last 14 minutes of the third period Saturday, especially with the lack of counter-punch they have, the Rangers will lose 10-2 or 10-4 or 8-5.”

    This is simply downright inaccurate. When they forechecked hard, as against Detroit and San Jose, the chances against were MINIMAL — and ironically far less than those allowed in renney’s supposed “buttoned down” system!

    To say that a team that forechecks hard (two forwards, the third high) will automatically be liable defensively is the type of statement a novice to hockey makes. And it is unworthy of someone with as much experience as you have, Carp.

  19. just a thought on

    I am a Renney fan, and I mostly agree with you Carp. That said if they fail again in the playoffs, then he should go. I know they can’t buy Redden out but don’t take away our dreams.

  20. Dr. Ogrodnick

    Gomez- one 30 goal season in eight years. Season high after that? 19. Is he on pace for that? I’d say so.

    Drury- two 30 goal seasons. Both with a team that reached the Conference Finals twice and scored roughly 300 goals each season. His season high after those two years? 25. WITH TOM RENNEY’S RANGERS last year. Is he on pace for that? I’d say so.

    Naslund- 36 years old. If he were still the same player he used to be wouldn’t the team he Captained tried harder to resign him? He’s past his prime. Last year he put up 55 points (25, 30). At 15, 18 right now is he not on pace for that?

    Prucha is the one player I won’t defend him on. But Petr Prucha is not reason enough for Renney’s termination.

    Please show me where Tom Renney is hindering these players when they’re on pace to do what should be expected.

  21. mhurley,
    having a different opinion from you makes us lunatics. take the blinders off, and stop drinking the ranger kool aid. the rangers are house of cards right now, the coaches stubborness,and poor use of the personal that he has will catch up to them. never has the right players out at the right time. who can forget brad isbister being out there in the last minute of game 5 against buffalo. just to name one.

  22. Again, if Renney’s defensive system actually limited the opposition’s scoring chances, there would be a legit argument here. But it doesn’t! Renney — a supposed defensive guru — still has not found a way to squelch countless odd man rushes against …. while at the same time inhibiting his own team’s ability to generate offense.

    It’s the worst of both worlds, and that it cannot be seen by his fans is astonishing.

  23. Great arguments on both sides so far. Very convincing. If i came down from Mars with no preconceived notions on this team (and I just did something not too far from that) I could be pursuaded to agree with either side.

    Although my main thing remains: Would somebody better be hired to replace him?

    Keep them coming.

  24. Carp, Bravo for saying what you are really thinking
    alot of Journalists wont do that, you have more of our respect now!

    Above posts pretty much spell it all out, but when you speak to TR, include these questions if ya cam:

    -PEter Prucha? you know about this one
    -Glen Staher? Where is he? Is he alive? what’s his plan before the trade deadline? does he have one?
    -Powerplay- why not try using th eplpayers you DONT use on it every night, and quit your using of the same line during the game as the PP

  25. BrooklynRangersFan on

    Another point that I’d like a Renney apologist to address for me: if the team as constructed can’t win a championship, why are we playing the style that clearly is designed to maximize the output for this year, rather than instituting the one that we think will eventually succeed with the right roster?

    I mean, if we do have faith in our kids on the pro roster (Dubi, Cally, Zherdev, Dawes, Girardi, Staal, etc.), in HFD (Anisimov, Sanguinetti, Pyatt) and below (Grachev, Del Zotto, Stepan, et. al.), why aren’t we teaching them to play a system that will eventually contend for the cup when they hit their prime? These kids are NOT the prototypical trap players – about the only skill they have consistent with that game is that most of them are hardworking, but the other traits generally demonstrated by a successful trapping team (big, strong, relatively slow, north-southers) are not represented.

    The organization we’ve built acually has produced some very good talent. Obviously nothing in the mold of an Ovechkin or a Crosby, but guys the next step below who are well qualified to play – can’t believe I’m about to say this – the brand of hockey that the Devils are executing so well a couple of miles west. If Gomez and Drury and Redden are really incapable of playing a role in leading the team to the cup, why is the team playing a system that its defenders say is designed to cover their shortcomings and maximize their performance (right up until the Rangers get bounced in the first round of the POs)? Why aren’t they playing a system that plays to the skills of the next generation who might actually have a chance to grasp the brass ring? (Of course, the funny thing is that I actually think that the Devils’ system would be more suited to our vets too.)

  26. mhurley:

    woo-hoo! Kool-Aid! Are you related to Renney? That was the biggest whitewash post that I’ve read all season!

    You are a poster child for the Ranger fan of the year! Exactly what Dolan loves to hear. See no evil, hear no evil, and especially speak no evil. They’ll probably be contacting you to appear in the booth with Sam the Sham and Joe the Shill between periods… topic: “Renney’s amazing style consciousness”. Anything to distract the fans from the rotten core of the organization’s management team.

  27. Let me ask another question, without upsetting the current roll of comments:

    Which of the current players could have played on the ’94 team? Seriously. Henrik? Drury (who is a Larmer clone, and Larmer played second line)? Betts?

    In fact, how many of them could have played on the first two lines or the top two defense pairs of the team two years ago? A few. But not many.

  28. ME: You tried to say there were no 30 goal scorers on the team, which is inaccurate. Gomez and Drury’s point output is way down. Dubinsky and Dawes are regressing. Most of this has to do with Renney’s system. If we didn’t have a top 5 goalie, this team would be significantly below .500, and Renney wouldn’t be employed.

  29. I like the fact that you’re being honest with us. Great write up, insightful and it shows your vision of Renney pretty well.

    Thanks carp.

  30. just a thought on

    Carp, I read somewhere else that Renney and Gomez have disagreements about “style of play”. Do you sense that Renney has lost the locker room? Does Drury talk more in the locker room, is he the leader on this team? I do believe Renney is showing to much “respect” for his vets, but if he did sit these guys would he totally loose the team? Does he have the final say on the roster (no 7th defensemen) or are his hands tied by Sather. (all the third and fourth line forwards)

  31. onecupin67years on

    under neil smith , a lot of the young guys would’ve been traded:Staal, dubi callahan

    On the 94 roster: betts,naslund, mara,drury,gomez, orr

  32. although i do agree with every point you make, carp, i feel like we need a coach who can adapt, and do a lot with a little.

    and if/when the cap goes down, wade redden or michael rozsival or scott gomez won’t be bought out?

  33. I think all of our top 3 centers could have played on the 94 team, of course as 2nd, 3rd, or 4th line centers though. Same goes for Zherdev, Lundqvist, and Marc Staal. Probably that’s it, but the way that team was made up, who knows if any different players no matter who they were could have changed the final result.

  34. ford, you as usual have it right.

    Renneyism: Shut down your own attack out of fear of the opposition getting chances …… but then watch the opposition getting a million scoring chances anyway. it is Kafka-esque

  35. Like it or not, this team has one foot on the banana peel. Our money is spent in high priced free agents that we just shouldnt have signed. A run and gun system that was shown on the ice the first 10 or so games is no longer there- Renney is afraid. We dont have any true leader. When was the last time you were like come on Drury in the last minute of the game? Where is his money going? To winning faceoffs? Okay, he’s good at that, maybe a clutch goal in the last minute of a 1-0 game against the best team in the East would have been a nice change from the crap we’ve been seeing.

    It isnt Tom Renney.
    It ISNT Tom Renney
    It IS NOT Tom Renney

    The management needs to go. Sorry. Ever since we brought in Sather it’s been nothing but a problem buying old washed up guys and HOPING that a change of scenery will do them good. Hoping isnt enough. We need new management, let our astute hall-of-fame goaltender Mike Richter take the helm as GM, i’m pretty sure a smart guy who went to Yale and pushed beezer out of a starting position could think of a few tweaks to get this team going?

    It isnt Tom Renney.
    It’s the system. Stop buying on the market, start spending wisely.

    We paid 6 million for Redden where we could have picked up Streit, which would have been blatantly obvious better move. We tried to pick Orpik up? He wanted to stay. Walk away. We dont need to SIGN SIGN SIGN in order to get our team back but of course we did. Rozsival is one person I would say that should stay. He’s working into the shoes of his new contract, he’s been playing much better as of late and he’s been a Ranger for quite some time. These other guys are such albatross’ its not even fun to watch anymore.

    Game on NBC? Expect a blowout
    Game in the Afternoon? Expect a blowout
    Game with high expectation? Expect a blowout

  36. Dr. Ogrodnick

    Being a 30 goal scorer once in 8 full seasons (Gomez) and twice in 9 (Drury) does not make you an annual thirty goal scorer.

    Their point production is NOT way down unless you’re only choosing to look at their very best years. Which is NOT the norm when it’s happened once or twice in their decade long careers.

  37. onecupin67years on

    Carp. did you read todays times article by Zisner, renney wants reitz to watch a few practices before playing, now thats complicating things.Tom show and tell

  38. just a thought on

    Brooklynrangerfan, you know the answer to your last question. MSG will never let them totally tank. So if you get rid of Renney the next coach will play the system he thinks will get him the farthest.

  39. I can’t understand why a coach who’s so intelligent is trying to play defense first with

    and I quote

    “one frontline defenseman, who is a kid and still learning.”

    It’s not ALL his fault but he does not get the best out of his team night in and night out. Hell, he can’t even get them to play one complete game… a full 60 minutes. He hasn’t gotten that once this season.

    But the players play so it’s their fault and Sather built the flawed team so it’s his fault… and I’m a diehard fan so it’s my fault I care so damn much.

  40. RICK need proof on Prucha? …….”I’ve been hoping and waiting — no, praying — for this day to come,” Fritsche told the Star-Tribune of Minnesota. “I can think of a million different things in New York. Coaches have their guys. It’s been a long year for me up to this point.”….Renney belongs behind a desk not a bench. He can’t get it done with any reasonable roster. He couldn’t get it done with Sather’s All Stars. No team is going to have a balanced roster, that’s an excuse. He picked these guys with Sather,that says volumns. He can’t change to the uptempo he promised. He’s playing safe make the playoffs hockey. He’s not a playoff coach. He’s reached his peak as a coach. His system and methods are not getting great results. And there’s plenty of blame to throw at Sather and his croonies, and the players. But as the saying goes you can’t fire the team. They almost did that in the off season. The GM & coach CAN”T get it done, end of story. They’ve had their chance. How many more years would you like to give them. They’d probably ask for 5 more just to get to the finals.

  41. Carp – you DO remember that two years ago our top defense pair was Rozsival and Malik, and second pair was Tyutin and Girardi, don’t you?

    Although I don’t like Rozsival, I’d put Staal and Rozsival up against Malik and Rozsival any day of the week. And I’d put Mara and Girardi up against Tyutin and Girardi as well.

    And yes, our first line doesn’t match up against Jagr and ANYBODY. But Jagr’s skills were declining and he was a 900-lb. gorilla that Renney couldn’t control. Jagr was Renney’s excuse for why he couldn’t fully install his “system”.

    This year Renney has EXACTLY the team that he wanted – no superstars, hard workers, fast skaters… and he still hasn’t fixed the powerplay, or the shorthanded goals, or the scoring. This was his chance. Now it’s time to move on.

    As for the ’94 team, I think Drury, Gomez, Zherdev, Staal and Lundqvist could have played on that team. They may not have been an upgrade, but they could have played on it.

  42. Bulldog wrote,

    ” having a different opinion from you makes us lunatics. take the blinders off, and stop drinking the ranger kool aid. the rangers are house of cards right now, the coaches stubborness,and poor use of the personal that he has will catch up to them. never has the right players out at the right time. who can forget brad isbister being out there in the last minute of game 5 against buffalo. just to name one.”

    There is a season ticketholder that sits in front of me that hasn’t come to a game in two months. I asked him where he’d been. His response was “I wasn’t coming to games because I hate Renney and want him gone.” That is a lunatic. He sells his tickets to opposition fans. MSG should revoke his subscription.

    If the arena holds 18,200 people, you have at least one person out there like him in every section. Then, you have all of the haters on the website message boards. That is your lunatic fringe. They drink the hate koolaide.

  43. Naslund, after the game: “After they scored we had no choice but to go on the offense, and that’s how we have to play, that’s when we play our best – when we don’t worry so much and just go after teams.”

    Insubordination! Renney must fine him! Because he didn’t mention the need to “tidy up” in our own end!

  44. Brooklyn Rangers Fan…

    I know you’re smarter than that last post of yours.

    The Rangers style does not work well for the long haul of a hockey season. Luckily, this isn’t baseball and you don’t have to be one of 4 teams in your conference to get in.

    However, come playoff time it is a system and style that can win hockey games.

    Is this team miserably inconsistent? Absolutely. But we’ve also seen this team’s ability to beat/play with the best teams in the league.

    It wouldn’t suprise me if this team got knocked out in the first round of the playoffs. However, if they went much further it wouldn’t shock me either.

    You have to get there to have a chance.

  45. Carp, and all–

    Your assesment is spot-on, and I for one can not argue that Renney has been a positive infliction on this franchise. One can also state that as far as this season goes, we are off and running with a better than average start. These are factual arguments that serves in favor for Coach Renney.


    All of these arguments can be found and argued against when considering one fundemental fact; That was then, this is now. And if you just watch how the Rangers are performing and have performed all season a couple of things become apparent:

    – Without Hank we would be in the bottom quarter of the conference.

    – The Rangers have not played well for 60 minutes yet this season.

    – Several parts of the game that can be blamed on poor management have been way too common (bad PP, Too many men, Poor line shifting, wrong line after goals and PPs, etc)

    – Key players that were brought in to be the backbone of the team have not lived up to their expectations.

    – The defensive style of play (that is by the way totally contradictive of the style of play that Renney said he wanted to play) is not working, since there are at least 4-8 clear breakaways or 2 on 1s every single game. The current GAA (that you speak about with such urgency) are not the Result of a working defnsive system, as it is the result of a great goaltender. As soon as that changes, Rangers are in trouble.

    So, if you look at these facts, and disgard the arguments pro or against Renney, one could conclude that some changes need to be made, because this is NOT GOING ANYWHERE but down or sideways. And, as you pointed out Carp, Slats is not going anywhere, Redden is neither, so, what can you do?

    – Start over like the Caps. (though that would mean that Redden either steps up or out, just like the top three forwards)

    – Get in some new blood. Like the kids in Hartford.

    – Fire the coach i.e. new system. New way of thought.

    So, where to go?

    I say, anywhere but here. If the Rangers won the Stanley Cup playing like this – and I’m saying this as a true fan – I would probobly stop watching the game totally.

    Lets Go Rangers.

    //Alex T

  46. Me:

    Drury is on pace for his worst point total since 01-02 and Gomez is on pace for his worst point total since 02-03, the second lowest of his career. So keep drinking that Koolaid and ignoring the facts.

  47. “That’s when we play our best – when we don’t worry so much and just go after teams.”

    You think Naslund is happy with Renneyism?

  48. Dr. Ogrodnick

    You’re honestly arguing that if Gomez gets in the 50’s in points this year with no sniper and after playing the entire first half of the season with a leg problem that it’s Renney’s fault?

    Drury plays with who again? Dawes? Korpikoski? Righhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhht. Tom Renney’s fault.

    Got anything else though?

  49. Carp

    Welcome back!!

    Renney question, he is doing very good with what he has, so not his fault. Keep him!

    If he goes, torts, schoney, melrose (yes, him, he holds high draft picks vet players and the team mascot accountable) would be my choices to replace him.

    Someone posted gomer and dru’s stats earlier from their careers and they are on pace for normal years so get a grip folks, rarely are career 20 goal scorers going to score 40 goals and 110 pts a season constantly. Not what they do!!

    Lastly the prucha issue, I am soooo sick of this one I love the guy, but come on. He has pretty much averaged 12 or so minutes a night for his 4 years here and his goal total has dropped every season (obviously less games played this season, but 60 plus every other one) he brings a good forecheck two or three games at a time then disappears (probably due to his size and wearing down a bit) and usually get lit up once a game to inspire the opposition. He makes 1.6 million a season for that?? Prucha is not anywhere close to a solution for this team, he seems to be more symptomatic of the problems with this team. I love the guy, but overpaid for his production and what he brings.


  50. stopwiththefourthlinealready on


    First off welcome back buddy.

    I agree with you that Renney is the best coach we have had since Colin Campbell but is that really sating much… NO. I liken Renney to Joe Torre, excellent man who commands respect of his players and gets them to play for him but is a little lost in in game management. I will always respect Tom for being the coach who brought us out of our seven year drought, but really the credit belongs to Jagr and Lundqvist. Toms time has run its course. We need a coach that will coach to the players strength not just employ his system. It is no coincidence that everyone is having dreadful offensive years, that is the coachs fault. Why do we constantly dump and change, allowing other teams free breakouts? Why do we have the same power play setup that never seems to work? Why do we take too many too many men penalties? Why do we never get the make up calls? Why can’t prucha crack the lineup while gomez can play every powerplay and only accumulate one ppg? Why does staal never get a shot on the PP? Wy does colton orr have to play every game? Why does he have this ridiculous love for voros? Why did he not give rismiller or fritsche a shot? Why do none of our defenseman clear the front of the net/ take the body? Why does he have this undying loyalty to Perry Pearn? You get the point.

    He took us as far as he can, its time for a change. I would be in favor of torterella, laviolette, pat quinn, or schoenfeld

  51. Rick,

    Hindsight is 50/50 but how about a poll where these questions are put to the posters with these or similar scenarios:

    I would be in favor of not making the playoffs if we could dump all the high priced contracts (fire sale), Drury, Gomez, Redden, Rozsival and Naslund (except Lundqvist). Bring up all the kids from Hartford.

    I would be in favor of trading Roszival, Dubinsky and two first round draft picks for (Chara, Brian Campbell, insert defenseman name) at the trade deadline.

    I would be in favor of maintaining the status quo and see how far we get in the playoffs.

    Let the lovers and haters put their money where their mouthes are.

  52. Without a doubt I think Renney needs to go if just to save the entertainment value of the Rangers. The 2-1 game senario is shortsided and will not last the playoffs. Yes, all good teams play good team defense, but they also have the ability to score. Of course the Rangers aren’t an offensive powerhouse, but they were suppose to be one last year, remember? We’ve seen production drop all around the past two season, which I point to the coaching. The Hockey Rodent made a good observation regarding Zherdev’s “dump and change” a couple games back; it’s clear the team is afraid of offense. Yet Sather bought Redden and Kalinin, known more for their offensive production than defensive? So I think most people agree that the making of this team isn’t perfect by any stretch, but that’s a different story. The powerplay is inexcusable- the PP is about strategy, not just personnel.

    To those who said “two many men” isn’t the coaching responsiblity, you are completely wrong. Yes, it is the players responsibility as well, but if the team is so piss-poor at it, then play elementary hockey and practice it. Also, maybe if players could remember who their linemates were it would be less of an issue.

    That game when the Rangers played for 30 seconds shorthanded because they didn’t realize a 5th man didn’t jump on the ice? That’s just pathetic.

    I want to start with JUST Petr Prucha. I realize Prucha might not change this team’s outlook in the slightest, but this absoutely needs to be addressed, and Carp, if you’re willing to do it, then bless you. Not one beat writer, besides Larry Brooks, has called Renney out on this travesty.

    Can you do me a big favor, Carp? Ask Renney to defend the follow quotes.


    ‘”[Zherdev]’s played pretty well for us the last five or six games, but he also has to know that I have faith in him, and I trust him to do those things,” like killing penalties, Renney said. “That’s very much a part of a player’s confidence, and you get more out of them by showing them opportunities.”

    Player’s confidence, hmmm? Get more out of them by showing them opportunities? Meanwhile, Zherdev has one goal in 17 games, I believe it is.

    “I’ve been hoping and waiting – no, praying – for this day to come,” Fritsche said. “I don’t think excited really even describes it. I can think of a million different things in New York. Coaches have their guys. It’s been a long year for me up to this point.”

    Coaches have their guys. Wow, is that telling. Thankfully, Fritsche has broken free of this mess.

    Renney regarding Voros’s penalties before the Allstar break: “I talked to him about it. I thought he had a tough call on one of them; he was doing what he was asked to do, and maybe even a second was a little… it was one of those cantankerous type penalties, that’s how he has to contribute to our team, we need that in our lineup. You want to avoid the penalty box when you play that way, but you don’t want to stifle a guy from doing what he does best.”

    You don’t want to stifle a guy from doing what he does best? Like… maybe… get powerplay goals? Because that’s how PRUCHA has to contribute to this team.

    “I feel like I need points to stay in. The coach probably doesn’t have much confidence in me to keep me in the lineup,” said Petr Prucha. And yes, Prucha, you need points to stay in the line up. Unlike anyone else on this time, besides maybe Lauri Korpikoski.

    Coach Tom Renney’s explanation for the line switches: “I am looking at it kind of from a power-play perspective. If I decide to go down that road tomorrow and beyond, what it does is it might give us an opportunity to throw a completely different look out there as a power play unit and make it a little more competitive as to whether you’re getting that opportunity.”

    A little more competitive as to whether you’re getting that opportunity, unless your name is Petr Prucha, apparently. Whereas we still see Gomez out there, plugging away with ONE (read it: ONE) powerplay goal this season. And Aaron Voros, after getting out of shape, gets plugged right back onto the powerplay when returning, who hasn’t produced since November.

    “If he would get three or four goals a night he’ll be fine,” said Tom Renney regarding Petr Prucha.

    I understand that was a joke… I think… but seriously?

  53. Ford,

    A past his prime vet whose team he was the Captain of didn’t want him trying to hang on and stretch his offensive numbers as much he can to make the hall of fame?

    Does this team need to be more aggressive? Absolutely. Where did I argue against that?

    The problem is people here are so unintelligent they swear that because Renney plays a defensive system that means he doesn’t want his team to be aggressive.

    News flash: This team generates scoring chances every single night. Tom Renney HAS NOTHING TO DO with these players inability to finish.

    It simply amazes me how Renney gets blamed for this.

  54. In any legitmate hockey city, with legitimate hockey writers, the issue of Dawes as Cowardly Mouse would be THE story this morning. But of course it isn’t, and there aren’t. And Renney will dress him again on Tuesday, and the team morale and belief in itself will go down another few slots.

  55. Quote by Rick Carpinello: “Fact: He will probably be fired if the Rangers go down in flames in the playoffs. Fact: A lot of you would probably prefer the Rangers go down in flames in the playoffs than for them to go to the conference final, just to get rid of him.”

    Not true for me. I’d LOVE to see this team go to the Cup Final, at least, but that isn’t happening with Renney. Renney was great to get us to the level of becoming a playoff team. I’m sorry, but making the playoffs in the NHL is not the be-all end-all of a franchise. Being a powerhouse that is respected(or feared would be a better word) should be the next step of this team. They are going backwards. I hope you see my point. Renney was great for getting us to the level of minor-level respectablility but the teams has to progress from there. I want my team be feared by other teams in the league, for crissakes. I want them to dread playing against us. That would make me proud. They aren’t making me proud lately and I think New York deserves better.

  56. The system may be boring, but the current players are the ones who make it boring. No personality in style or character among this group. Even post game interviews used to be fun until this season. It seems as though the current team was recruited more for their blandness of personality than anything else.
    Jagr’s teams were always fun. Even the teams of the FLY lines or Barnaby or Kasparaitis or Bure were at least fun to watch.
    The success this team had with Jagr allowed management to believe they were the real reasons for the success, so they got rid of Jagr’s players one by one, and the result is a bland group of nothing special. It’s Sather’s fault — Jagr saved his job, which re-inflated Sather’s ego. It’s sad to find myself tuning to a Devils game or a Caps game for some fun.

  57. PS, I chose Roszival and Dubinsky because I think they have the greatest trade value and I would want to hang on to Zherdev if at all possible.

  58. News flash, hurley — this team generated NO scoring chance in the first two periods because of Renney’s dumpo and change. They did nothing except play for a 0-0 tie.

    But when he released them to forecheck in the third, they generated many, many chances. Are you so locked in that you do not see the cause and effect of a complete switch is tactics????

  59. Me:
    Are you honestly absolving Renney of all blame when almost all of our noted scorers are having some of their worst seasons, and most of our youth is regressing before our eyes?

  60. hurley

    You’re aware that this defensive system you endorse allows countless odd man rushes against every night —– precisely what a defensive system is supposed to prevent? And you want to give Renney a pass on this too?

    Again, if he actually knew how to shut down the opposition, we would have a really good argument here. But he can’t. So we don’t.

  61. What Kerri says at 11:54 am is spot on. The way the players never know who they are supposed to be on the ice with, too many too many men on ice penalties and the way Renney treats Prucha, of all players is sickening. I’d like to have a team full of Pruchas then a team full of Drurys and Gomezs’. I’m this close to boycotting Ranger games and watching the Caps until they fire Clueless Tom. I can’t take much more of this garbage.

  62. howyagonnatellme on


    Don’t you think that Renney waters the players down? I mean I certainly don’t find Prucha boring. I don’t find Zherdev boring. But Prucha’s benched and Z gets in trouble for his creativity.

  63. from Boston Globe on yesterday’s game:

    “Rask, the 6-foot-2-inch goalie was not really tested until the third period, and he was never under a great amount of goalmouth pressure by the overhyped Broadway Blueshirts.”

    I guess word is spreading about our house of cards, and Renney’s “pressure” offense.

  64. Hurley, I have always liked Renney. But for you to dismiss what Naslund said —- We play better when we stop worrying and go after teams —- and slime him in the process, you do not do your cause any good. Bottom line, when this team forechecks hard, it is far better than when it rope a dopes.

  65. Me:
    Wrist shots from the point with no traffic in front don’t really count as legitimate scoring chances. Our offense looks like a low end college team.

  66. Carp

    Not sure if you were talking about me with the melrose thing or not, but I DO NOT think he is better than renney, just brought up the fact that in the event renney gets canned he is the type of coach who holds all players accountable regardless of salary and that seems to be what most people are clammoring about.

    As far as trading Dubi, no way in my opinion. If we would move him to wing where he has a little less defencive responsibility and could spend a little more time in front of the net, he would get 25 to 30 a year I think. Him on a wing with AA at center and Z on the other could be very interesting.

  67. Oh, and for one, I WOULD rather the Rangers not make the playoffs and get Renney fired.

    I don’t care if they win the Stanley Cup, they do it like a snoozefest, and they are exactly everything Ranger fans hated the Devils for in the 90’s. Except the Devils were actually a good team which could score.

    Ask Ovechkin what he thinks about the Rangers “system.” He called it the Rangers “not playing hockey.” They collapse back to play defense, and watch teams like the Caps walk all over them.

    Why do you think the same teams, the Caps, the Habs, the Sabres, always beat the Rangers? It’s a flawed SYSTEM. if it was a flawed TEAM, we’d see them get blown out and lose, especially to more talented teams, but we wouldn’t see the same TEAMS which employ aggressive offensive systems consistently beat the Rangers. There’s a reason we beat who we beat and lose to who we lose to. We have trouble with the Islanders because they, too, employ the aggressive system but don’t have the manpower to back it up for three periods (although they are getting increasingly better at scoring goals).

    If that makes me a bad fan, whatever, fine. I’m a big fan of Lundqvist. I’m a big fan of Callahan and Dubinsky. I love Prucha and Zherdev and Staal and Mara. But I’m not a fan of defense-first hockey, and I’m not a fan of watching the same teams wipe the Rangers clean night after night. It’s embarrassing. The PP is embarrassing, and if anyone actually watched the PP, they’d see that the lack of motion is a huge part of the problem. That’s strategy. I’m not claiming to know how to fix it, but the problem is obvious yet isn’t being taken care of.

  68. I just started coming to this blog 2 years ago. I’m really thankful that i didnt for all those years the Rangers didnt make the playoffs. A good percentage of people complain about the team whether they are winning or losing. For the weeks that we were conference leaders, and the months we were division leaders, I’ve never seen so many people down on their first place team.

    I think it comes down to the fact the some fans want MORE and MORE every year. Some fans want to change the roster and coach and lineup everytime a bump in the road hits… but ironically, those are the philosophies that have gotten the Rangers into trouble in years past, and would set off those same Ranger fans into an angry frenzy if their wishes were actually granted.

    I hate the saying but i think “We should stay the course”. I like Renney, I like Gomez and Drury, I love Henrik and the youth we have (Dubi, Girardi, Callahan, Zherdev and Staal). I could do without Redden and Rozy, but what are you gonna do?? They have been playing better, and in Redden (and Kalinin and Naslund’s) case, i’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that it has been tough transition to leave their previous teams that they were apart of for so long.

    Im just really thankful we are only stuck with Kalinin until the end of this season. It was a nice experiment, that just didnt go well …….. and RE-SIGN MARA !!!!

  69. someone earlier mentioned renneys smart move with isbister against the sabers what about his great move putting hollweg out against pitt last year. just another smart move by good old tommy boy.

  70. WD40,

    I believe the stategy was for the Rangers to keep Boston off the board and tire them out during the first two periods. Both teams were pretty even on shots in the first two periods.

    Because Boston had played the night before against Pittsburgh, of course Renney would press the forecheck in the third when Boston might be running out of gas. The Rangers out shot Boston 2-1 in the third. Too bad Rask played like Roy and Boston didn’t run out of gas.

    Were it not for the mistakes of Dawes and Rozy on the late goal in the second, the strategy would have worked. What pisses me of is that the Ranger always give up the late in the period goal.

    I believe this is always the stategy Renney tries to employ when playing a team that played the night before. Most of the 16 shots the Rangers took in the third were straight into Rask’s midsection.

    They held the best team in hockey to one goal on 27 shots. I don’t have a problem with that.

  71. I agree that Renney will almost surely be out after an early playoff exit this year (granted we make the playoffs). I honestly dont see us anywhere above a 6th seed, with 2 and a half months to go.

    Tortorella is a coach with balls, he needs to be brought back so he and Brooks can keep fighting with their oven mits on at every press opp

  72. Carp,
    Love the questions, love your interaction at the nitty-gritty level as well.

    I told my buddy this morning that Renney had shown his hand when he refused to start the young starlet (at the time) goaltender over a twice-injured veteran who couldn’t last 8 seconds in OT (against Simon Gagne and the Flyers). Lundqvist was flat-out putting on a goaltending clinic every game he played while Weekes was still the “#1” goaltender. That will forever be Renney’s flaw. He has terrible judgement in the clutch and he’s doomed because his veterans are graced with plentiful ice time while anyone who’s paycheck is <1,000,000 can work their butt off and even produce, but may see the press box next game!

    Examples: Why is Redden playing the point over Staal during the PP and at the end of a dismal performance? Why is Prucha getting 15 seconds of ice time when Voros is seeing more [when prucha even gets to play]? Why isn’t Zherdev playing with Naslund yet (Prucha, Naslund, Dubinsky, Zherdev can all play the same style…yet they have started just a few games being on the same lines or PP toghether)! When Prucha did play with Dubinsky and Zherdev, Prucha had 2 goals in 2 games and setup Z and Dubi for another one or two and then the third game Renney moved Prucha off that wing! Why does any coach remove a player from a line he’s scored with during previous games?! Why does every powerplay start with Drury-Gomez-Naslund-Redden-Rozsival WHEN IT HASN’T WORKED while there’s a different line combination every 3 games?!

    There are more but I have to get studying for an exam, that should be enough questions for now.

    PS: Your question to us should not be “who could do a better job” because in your blog you point out that ‘Torterelli’ could probably do as good, or better, but Sather couldn’t handle him.

  73. just my view:

    renney is doing a B to B+ job with the rangers for his career and probalem a B to B- this season. and Carp, i do not think there is anyone out there to replace him right now. the saying is “you cant make chicken soup out of chicken …” you know what. sather made a mess last summer. he handcuffed the team with 3rd and 4th liners and mediocre dmen while he slammed the cap for the next 5 years. with the apparent depth at defence in the system why would you give redden and rozsival those contracts? sanguinetti, potter, del zotto on the horizon and we sign a has-been and a 2nd tier dman to long term contracts? insane. i do give him credit for the zherdev trade though.

    renney deserves criticism for his handling of prucha for sure. why does dawes and voros get twice as many opportunities than prucha? prucha give effort and energy whenever he is on the ice. it sends a bad message to players and fans when effort is not rewarded! why does so many people see petrs heart on his sleeve and effort on the ice while renney and the staff does not? i also feel renney plays the 4th line too much. example, in pitts this wek, 2-2 game in 2nd period. the team is controlling the pay and getting scoring chances left and right. out of a tv time out who is on the ice? betts orr and sjostrom! i love the line but lets play the advantage when we have it tom.

  74. You do realize that Renny’s defensive system has absolutely nothing to do with the Rangers inability to move the puck out of their zone quickly, right? Yes, the Rangers did not generate any scoring chances in the first two periods against Boston, but NOT b/c of Renney’s system. Rather, Boston forechecked the hell out of the Rangers creating turnover after turnover. When the Bruins finally let up in the 3rd, the Rangers were able to attack.

  75. This is all on Sather! The problem is that the defense is not built for a trap system when you have turnover machines like Redden/Kalinin and to a lesser extent Roszival(who i like and will live with). They need a physical crease clearer or two.. Maybe they can help out this Reitz kid and get him to be a Francois Beachemaon (sp) type and Michael Sauer is that kinda player but he has to prove he can stay healthy.

    Sather and to a lesser extent Renney are obsessed with this “makes a great first pass” thing which is overrated as they have three dmen who make fine first passes. He could have had any combo of Commodore/Jason Smith/Ossi Vannanen/Ron Hainsey/Mark Streit for about $8 million and less years than DRedden’s deal.

    I like Renney and think he’s done a good job. I’m not ready to give up on him quite yet. Like a good TV show he needs to show some character development as this is season 4 for him. He needs to toughen up meaning bench Redden, play Prucha, bring up Anisimov, etc.

    Carp-As Mr. Spock famously said in Star Trek II “There are always possibilities” and once Redden comes home and the crowd gets on his back, maybe not this year, maybe not even next year, but he could end up in Hartford before year three of Obama’s presidency.

  76. just my view:

    renney is doing a B to B+ job with the rangers for his career and a B to B- this season. and Carp, i do not think there is anyone out there to replace him right now. the saying is “you cant make chicken soup out of chicken …” you know what. sather made a mess last summer. he handcuffed the team with 3rd and 4th liners and mediocre dmen while he slammed the cap for the next 5 years. with the apparent depth at defence in the system why would you give redden and rozsival those contracts? sanguinetti, potter, del zotto on the horizon and we sign a has-been and a 2nd tier dman to long term contracts? insane. i do give him credit for the zherdev trade though.

    renney deserves criticism for his handling of prucha for sure. why does dawes and voros get twice as many opportunities than prucha? prucha give effort and energy whenever he is on the ice. it sends a bad message to players and fans when effort is not rewarded! why does so many people see petrs heart on his sleeve and effort on the ice while renney and the staff does not? i also feel renney plays the 4th line too much. example, in pitts this wek, 2-2 game in 2nd period. the team is controlling the pay and getting scoring chances left and right. out of a tv time out who is on the ice? betts orr and sjostrom! i love the line but lets play the advantage when we have it tom.

  77. I just realized the 1million paycheck doesn’t necessarily apply because Renney will bench Euro’s who make more than a million (Prucha, 1.6mil; Zherdev 3mil).

    Last comment to everyone blaming Sather; this is in a large part Renney’s team. He and Pearn recruited Redden to build Renney’s (supposed) ‘transition’ game. That falls on Pearn and Renney’s backs, not Sather who was trying to build them their team. Re-signing Rozy and signing both Drury and Gomez… That’s probably more on Sather, but I don’t doubt this year’s team was greatly crafted by the desires of Renney (no Shanny, no Avery, recruiting Redden).

  78. Carp — I agree with most if not all of what you said.

    I’m glad you’re going to show some stones and ask about Prucha. I am not one of the Prucha Man Crush contingent but I do think he’s not getting a fair shake. Just like Fritsche didn’t.

    Not that Prucha is a cure-all for what ails this team but he has proven he can score in this league and the team cannot score. Not many other guys on the roster have done that, or at least not recently.

    The double standards around this team in terms of accountability are shocking.

    Years ago Renney would scratch Nylander when he’d take his lazy penalties. And it worked. AND he was the legit #1 center at the time. But now? Only the marginal forwards seem to have to fear the bench, and only a few of those guys, at that.

    I’m not so sure Renney is 100% blameless in terms of the makeup of the team. He has input on who gets signed and who gets let go. Not final say but input for sure so that to me means he gets a little heat for that too.

    And it’s fair to guess that Pearn had influence on the Redden fiasco.

    Dollars and term, blame Sather but I bet the coaching staff pushed to bring him in. Me? I want to push him in front of a goddamn train. I don’t blame him for taking the money, I certainly wouldn’t turn down $40M. I just wish he took it from Dallas or Columbus or somewhere else.

    This team is royally screwed for the next several years.

    There are no goal scoring prospects. NONE. Seriously — ZERO! Think about that for a second. NO-FREAKIN-BODY.

    Even without the tragic loss of Cherepanov they did a terrible job of drafting legit top 6 forwards and now the only one they had is dead. Obviously it is not their fault he died but they had to know of his illness.

    It is their fault for not having more legit forward prospects than 1. I suppose there’s hope for Grachev and Anisimov but they’ll never be the game breakers this entire franchise is lacking.

    With the money wasted on Gomez, Drury, Redden and Roszival there is no money to bring in any new guys to score goals via Free Agency.

    With the fat contracts and poor performance of most of their players, there is no way any trades can be pulled off to bring in scoring.

    So we’re stuck with this until those fat cats are gone in the 5-7 years — or worse yet, brace yourselves for a trade of every mildly promising kid – Dubinksy, Zherdev, Callahan, Staal plus a billion draft picks for Gaborik or Kovalchuk.

    A guaranteed disaster which I hope doesn’t come to be.

    Even if they want to stay in NY, there really is not much money to retain Staal, Zherdev, Dubinsky etc when their deals are up this summer so somebody’s on their way out of town.

    What a total and complete mess… not to mention $1M per for Voros, $1M per for Rissmiller?!? WTF was that for? To see him in 2 preseason games and then ship him to Hartford?

    And all this while they actually have a so-called capologist on the payroll?!?


  79. I don’t understand everyone who is saying, “If we didn’t have Henrik we’d be a sub 500 team.” Welllll, ummmm, no kidding. He’s one of the three best goaltenders in the league. He’s a huge reason that this team has been successful to the extent that is has. A lot more of those odd man rushes would be ending up in the back of the net if he wasn’t back there. That all being said, because of him and because of the Rangers system, the Rangers DO have a shot at winning a Cup this year, just as they have each of the past several years. Is it highly unlikely? Of course. BUT it is possible. If you’re a hockey fan (not just a Rangers fan) you should know that plenty of allegedly “sub par” teams have gotten on the backs of an incredibly hot goaltender all the way on through the Finals.

    Look, it’s not pretty. I think even those of us who defend Renney to an extent can admit that. In fact, a lot of nights its downright ugly. However, to suggest, as someone did above, that theyd rather see the Rangers lose an “entertaining” game 10-5 than win 2-1? WTF is that?! YOU’RE A RANGERS FAN! How can you say you’d rather see the Rangers lose than win?!

    In the end, the Rangers have a chance, not a great one, but a chance. More than anything else Carp said, I agree with this: who else are we going to bring in? Fire Renney right now, I’m not in love with the guy, I think he has plenty of shortcomings (Prucha’s treatment has criminal). But what coach out there improves this team immediately? Who are you gonna bring in that changes this teams expected outcome from 2nd round exit to Conference Champions? Scotty freakin Bowman wouldn’t make the Rangers Eastern Conference favorites. So, take the good with the bad, and hope Henk posts a sub 1.00 GAA in the playoffs.

  80. prime_rib_sandwich on

    renney must go! someone has to be accountable for all the constant blunders these players make game in and out. yes he got the rangers to the playoffs and yes the team is one of the best defensively but the same laundry list of failures has been posted on the frig for years now. henrik carries this team, without him they may be at the bottom of the division. yes the team is built horribly but as long as dolan runs the show, we have to live with slats, who should not escape any of the blame either, but renney has to perish. another early playoff exit is what to be expected. renney has taken the team as far as he can.

  81. Utica,

    What you are espousing is sideshow hockey.

    Tortorella(and Melrose)could not get two of the most talented players in hockey, Vinne and Marty, to produce for him. How would you expect him to deal with the Rangers, a team that has nowhere near the offensive fire power the Bolts have?

    As long as the Rangers make the playoffs and Sather is GM, Renney isn’t going anywhere. Personally, I’d like to see Sather go first but that is even less likely to happen.

  82. I said before I dont think that this whole team is Renney’s fault….I’d put way more of the blame on Sather

    BUT, that being said I do believe Renney has grossly misstepped in numerous areas so far this season.

    1) Wade Redden- The guy has struggled all year, looking back I can count the number of good games the guy has had on one hand. And it seems like over the last 30 games Girardi’s play has regressed at his side because hes been stuck covering up for Redden’s mistakes most of the time. For a coach that changes up the lines as often as him, how have redden and girardi been a pair all season and not once trying to put Staal with Redden to get him going…..its worked for whoever has been put with Staal why not try our 39 million dollar bust with him
    2) Lack of Accountability- For a team that scores as little as these Rangers do, defense is obviously a top priority. So for the love of god how does he not hold players accountable who are constantly turning the puck over (Gomez), never in the right position defensively (Kalinin), get caught flat footed far too often (Redden), or just overall pull dissappearing acts for games on end(Gomez, Redden, Drury-although for all his lack of being an offensive threat Drury saves at least one goal against every game). Those players needed to be benched, maybe even more than one game in a row.
    3. The line combinations- Mostly, for all the things hes tried this year to find some chemistry, Ive seem 2 glaring oversights…..he has not once tried to make a kid line with Dubi centering Cally & either Sjo/Korpikoski-for a team that has looked completely flat on so many nights, how can you not try to create an energy line- I like Colton Orr a lot more than most on this blog, but asking him and Betts to be those energy guys isnt gonna happen more than twice a season-Cally and Dubi play such a similar style game, why not put em together….not even once all year. Also, why has Zherdev never been put with Drury-Drury needs to get going, Zherdev has usually elevated the game of whomever he’s played with. Drury goes to the net, Zherdev shoots theres some traffic in front and maybe a rebound, Zherdev creates space, finds Drury in front, Zherdev does too much stickhandling and turns it over….Drury is our best 2 way forward and covers up for him

    And call up Ansimov….this team is mostly missing size and scoring-and he provides both. I am not gonna say hes the next coming of Eric Lindros (before his head turned to mush) but considering how few salary cap options we have, it makes sense to get the kid up and see what he can do.

    Lastly, Rick, of our 3 grossly overpaid contracts (Redden, Roszival, Gomez) are we stuck with them for the lengths of their deals?

  83. as for the comments of renneys system. jagr set the team record for points in a season under renney. prucha scored 30 goals as a rookie under renney. its not the system its the players in the system. 3rd and 4th liners everywhere you look. dawes, sjostrom, callahan, voros, betts, dubinsky, orr, korpikoski, prucha…none of them would play on 2nd line for any team in the NHL! (MAYBE ISLANDERS)

  84. “Tortorella could not get two of the most talented players in hockey, Vinne and Marty, to produce for him.”

    ???? A Stanley Cup win is not producing?

  85. Before I go do my daily stuff, I’ll say this; it’s a tough year be a Rangers fan as the only thing we can really do is sit back and wait. THIS IS A TRANSITION YEAR!

    Look; in the 80s the Rangers spent no money had no superstars so in the 90s they did the opposite and brought in too many “superstars” and spent too much and when it tanked it became this vicious cycle of anger/frustration with the fan base and state of the team in limbo.

    This is the post-Jagr year. I think there are some very good prospects in addition to the young guys they have now. No superstars at this point, but some damn good players. If we sit back, relax, and hopefully Sather leaves it alone, then all of a sudden Anisimov/Grachev/Del Zotto/Sanguinetti and others like Hagelin/Kundratek/Weisse/Stephan/etc. might turn out to be something great.

    Here’s a questions Rangers fans: Remember the late 80s when all of the prospects started coming up following the Esposito debacle as GM. A lot of those prospects were like Rangers prosects now. How hyped were Darren Turcotte/Tro Mallete/Tony Granato/Kris King/Serger Nemchinov and especially who ever heard of Sergei Zubov?

    We have some good ones coming. So as Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg would say; sit back, relax, and enjoy the show, just chiiiiilllll…….

  86. Hurley

    Your logic is hard enough to buy in the first place, but when you have Boston playing the night before when they were not, you really start to throw me.

  87. John Tortorella wouldn’t last in NY he has too much of a temper in him. Remember when he told Larry Brooks to “buzz off?” It won’t let me post the link but go to youtube.

    Also, I really wanted the Rangers to get Dean Lombardi as GM when SJ fired him. That guy did a good job with SJ and LA is a goalie and a couple of years away from being contenders.

  88. Rick,

    I like the coach and his style. The perfect example are the Devils Elias and Parise are having monster year because they are great players overall. And not to mention their team is top 10 in scoring with a great defense. Rangers are about to make the playoffs or the 4th straight year i hope and that would be 31 playoff appearances in the last 42 years. So stop complaining and watch the game. Lets go Rangers !!!!!

  89. Carp

    Your Renney apologies are put in clear context when you suggest that Colin Campbell was an excellent coach. “Colie” was an arrogant,xenophobic,mealy mouthed dwarf who did his best to ruin two of the greatest young Rangers in the system, Kovalev and Zubov. They are both shining still to this day while “Mr. Discipline” maintains his cushy office job (and continues his double standard towards Euros) because no one else in the league would pay him to actually coach their team. Renney is another arrogant passive-aggressive “tactician” who in his zeal to promulgate his superior intellectual “system” winds up banging round pegs into square holes. It’s obvious that the team has tuned out his rambling discourses and is stifled by his aversion to offensive creativity. And are you actually suggesting that the Devil’s personnel is comparable to the Rangers in denigrating Sutter’s performance vis a vis Renney’s? Renney didn’t outcoach Sutter last year in the playoffs — Avery did.

  90. Voice of Reason on


    While I agree on several of your points, my biggest issues relate to:

    how long it has taken Renney to find the right mix of linesmates (and he still hasn’t).

    How inept the Power Play is..

    These things fall directly into the lap of the Coach.

    People blame Dubinsky for not producing, yet the Coach does not notice that Voros isn’t quick enough on the forecheck to be a physical presence. Sure he’s 6-4 but if he can’t catch an opponent, he can’t hit an opponent. In theory Dubi and Zherdev should have a banger on the port side. Voros isn’t it. Prucha provides more offense on that line (even though he is a liability on the boards in the defensive zone). SJostrom would do well with those two as well, but has never been given a game to prove it. Korpikoski has looked game there as well. Yet we still see Voros.

    Point is by not having the right people together, and not focusing on the Power Play, much of the Offense is negated on a team that needs to squeeze every bit of goals out of it’s roster.

    Renney will likely say: “I don’t want to split up Betts and Sjostrom because they are a dynamic penalty killing combination.”

    Sjostrom is a former 1st round pick that may have hands of stone, but is quick and does go to the net. Why waste him? Why not see what he can do?

    Why leave Prucha, a dynamic forechecker (and proven scorer) in the press box?

    These are the things that make me scratch my head.

  91. I believe the 132 goals for and the 134 goals against stats speak the most clearly. 29-18-4 with a -2 goal differencial?

    The Rangers don’t score enough, even for this defense first style to win.

    Its true they seem to be experts in the shootout, but where does that get us in the playoffs? No where…

    I agree Renney seems like a smart and good guy, but I think its time for a change, even if that change negatively effects us. There is no point playing the regular season with an inflated record to just march out of the playoffs immediately. I’d rather get a better draft pick that is more in line with the skill (or lackthereof) of our team.

  92. Dubi and Z need Anisimov who is big, creative, and can win battles with his size, that’s the bottom line.

    Sather isn’t going anywhere (“sigh”), but once he retires, I’m all about giving the executive keys to the franchise to Gordie Clarke and Anders Hedberg with one as the President and one as GM. Thoughts?

  93. I think everyone has to understand that this defense first system that Renney is employing is holding the team back. I think the Rangers ARE BUILT

  94. Rick –

    Welcome back.

    I hear you to the extent I agree that what Sather has constructed followed the disasrous blueprint of 1999-2000 albeit with a different cast of characters. Not to say that there are any “attitude” problems in this mix, but the end results aren’t drastically if you believe, as I do, that that staggering into a playoff birth: being unable to get by round 2 is any accomplishment with which to be proud.

    I leave it to others more technicaly competent than me to executge the post-mortems on any of Renney’s game plans or strategic in-game adjustments.

    What I do see however is a stubborn resistenance on his part to change a course that’s been failing. Renney, it seems to me, is the ultimate left-brain personality.

    Lock him in a room; ask him to prepare a game plan for his team and he’ll deliver the most complete report (replete with footnotes, attrributions and bligliography).

    Which is fine, except if conditions change midstream and an adjustment is in order.

    From what I can tell, Renney is congenitaly resistant to change. (My guess is that subliminally, he regards an admission that change is required even when conditions demand it as admitting that he was guilty of an error or omission in his original treatment.

    (Of course, acknowlding that presupposed conditions can change — on the fly — and admitting that adjustments are in order is truly a strength, to Renney. even if he doesn’t conciously realize it it’s a sign of failure.

    Not so bad when you’re a backroom bean counter, but the results are potentially disastrous when you’re the guy in charge.

    My second criticism of the coach is his seeming inability to reach his younger players, abide by their inevitable mistakes and place them in roles which don’t take maximum advanttage of their atrributes. (Quicly coming to mind i s considering Dawes’ track record as a scorer and playmakeer Dawes he is being horribly miscast as a defensive forward.)

    From what I can see, a gaffe committed by a Gomez, Rozival Drury or Redden is instantly forgiven and no consequences are visited by the transgresser. But, let it be a Dawes, Dubinsky, Prucha (or other non-pet) and punishment is immediate. (And look how long it took him to catch on to Malik’s “act”.)

    So, it’s a discussion that cannot be limited to a simple “yea” or “nay” as to Renney. Sather shares major responsibility in the debacle and one wonders about the assistant coahces as well.

    Frankly, I’m looking forward to the day that (God willing) Jim Schoenfeld takes over.

  95. alex b (the poster formely known as czechthemout!!!!) on

    Carp-great changes to the blog since you’ve taken over.I love the interafction with the fans.It was mostly not there with Sam.

    ford-As usual,you always “steal” my arguments and present them just like I would.Great job! I’d like to know why all the Renneyaiders have not addressed several of the quotes that Ford has been so kind as to show us? Is it because you all are simpply left speechless when presented cold hard quotes from the players that run counter to what your “brilliant” svengali Renneymahhh spews?

    The facts about Renney are indesputible.

    His “system” allows a high number of scoring chances against and generates maybe 2 chances per period for the team.

    All the players,each and everyone is playing below thier ceiling level.The young kids are all regressing.And this team only wins when they get LQ to stand in his head in goal.

    And Renney is the worst coach in the league when it comes to in-game adjustments.This fact is indesputable.

    Renney needs to go!!!!!!!

  96. Zubie,
    that was beautiful. i thought i was the only one that remembered carpinello’s love afair with campbell. you nailed it on kovalev and zubov. i think the reason carp likes renney is he is so similiar to campbell.

  97. Sorry wrong button. to play a system similiar to the Buffalo Sabres. The Sabres didn’t have a Jagr Shannahan Straka, but they played an aggresive forcheck and forced turnovers while still winning close games. Renney has slowed this team so much that I believe the players are lost as to wether stay back or go on offense. I also believe that Jagr was trying to play Renney’s system which is why he had the lowest scoring total of his career. Renney did not want Jagr back because they couldn’t come to the aggreement that this team was to play Renney’s way. Jagr and company were let go, and this is what we got. Yes Sather is a pompous ass and should be shown the door, except the Dolans won’t do it. So what does that leave us. An intelligent coach who just doesn’t want to change the system he employs. I aggree he is extremely intelligent but he is a dope in the fact that he doesn’t see that this isn’t working. I know you can’t change everything mid season, but it’s time for Renney to make adjustments, and lay some blame on some vets.

  98. alex b (the poster formely known as czechthemout!!!!) on

    Mhurley-If your going to post stuff and expect to be taken seriously,please get your facts straight!

    Boston did not play the night before! I also seem to remember that the Bolts did win the cup,no?

  99. On a side note, does anyone have or heard that Jagr is negotiating out of his contract to play for the Pens? I’m not stating but a friend said he heard about this and were both trying to track down to see if has any truth.

  100. If they ever had a league average powerplay, let alone a good one, they’d be a much better team. All the players on the PP have had success there in other cities. That points to strategy, be it on Renney or Pearn.

  101. alex b (the poster formely known as czechthemout!!!!) on

    Zubie-great post!

    In fact Colin Cancer as I used to call him was quoted in the paper saying that he does not like russians and russian players. He tried to destroy Zubi and Kovalev.In fact the only reason that Kovy lated here was because Mess had his back! You guys will recall on Mess’s retirement night that Kovy came to participate iin the ceremony,put on his old ranger jersey and rightfully so given a huge ovation by the fans!

  102. As far as the PP, we need scoring but a player like Prucha sits???? In game adjustments, why do we continue to put the same 5 guys out there if it doesn’t work. Anyone remember “Buke” standing in front of the net to bring some life to the PP.

  103. Cynar jagr spoke with Ken Cambell of hockey new in his blog and he said if mario called him he would play for them for the league minimum because he owes his career to mario and his parents this happened a few weeks ago.

  104. Prucha is NOT a proven scorer. Great rookie season and declining goal totals ever since with the same amount of minutes (again this year the exception on games played). NOT a proven goal scorer, some offencive skill yes, proven goal scorer, nope, not even close! Proven goal scorer Prucha’s first three season plus this partial one goal total of 62 is 2 behind proven goal scorer chris drury’s 64 in his first three seasons. Proven goal scorer…are you serious???

  105. Carp…I thought the goal was to compete for the Cup…this is year 4 of Tomfoolery and, in all likelihood, we will finish this year the same as we have the past 3—one round, maybe two, and out…how many years does he get?

  106. wicky229:

    You’re kidding about Prucha, right? Compare the PP minutes he got as a rookie vs. the minutes he got SINCE THEN. As soon as Shanahan got here, Prucha got NO PP minutes. That’s on Renney.

    Prucha’s a PP specialist, and if he’s used that way he will score. Put any scorer on 3rd and 4th line with inferior linemates, and let’s see how they do. Wake up.

  107. The thing about Prucha is we know he’s not a ligit sniper, but he can score and that’s why he is on the team. WE NEED TO CHANGE SOMETHING ON THE PP!!!!! So why can’t Prucha get a better chance then what he has been given. No Prucha is not the end all answer but change is needed. Given the chance maybe Prucha will be better then Dawes, Callaghan, or even Gomez or Drury. You know what the problem is??? We won’t know because the dope of a coach won’t CHANGE!! The only thing he changes is the lines, he needs to hold personal acct. and sitting is the best way. I don’t care if they bring up the whole Wolf Pack team, lets try something to bring some life to this team.

  108. Rich C – It’s great that you’re willing to tackle the Renney issue head on. I want to suggest what I believe is a fallacy in the way you and others defend Renney. It is a mistake to credit his decision to send one player in on a weak forecheck (while pulling others back) as a defense-first system. What that really is is poor hockey. Even mediocre NHL players are quick and skilled enough to exploit open ice when a team pulls back. A quick example: how easily Nylander gained the zone when Drury pulled back in OT, leading to a loss to Washington. The way to play defense is to send a stronger forecheck the way San Jose does, and make it miserable for the opposition in their own end (the way other teams do to us). The way to be responsible defensively is to have everybody hustle back hard, have the center support the D down low, have the forwards not vacate the zone early. Too many here equate lack of forecheck with good defense, and it’s just plain wrong. We have good enough skaters to turn up the pressure. Renney’s failure to recognize this, combined with his awful line combos, poor personnel decisions, failure to deal with the PP, and poor bench management, suggests he’s not the “hockey genius” you believe him to be. It sometimes seems that his big contribution is slapping the players on the back on the bench with a hearty “let’s go boys.” I respectfully suggest he should be replaced, because the team, even with the fiscal mess Sather has created, is capable of better.

  109. Tunnel vision…I mean rocketnyr

    Perhaps, just perhaps the team is not talented enough to have a forward dress for games that is basically used just on the powerplay (I know orr is an example of dressing and not playing alot, but renney will not bench him because renney believes in the deterrent factor, whether orr is that factor is debateable or not). Same reason we did not sign shanny, not a deep enough team for situational players.

  110. Throwaway you nailed it on the head. This is a small, fast team, not a big grind it out Devils team. Teams like Buffalo, San Jose, play a game that you and I seem to agree would fit the Rangers much better then this current “system” I believe all the hooopla is everyone can see this except the coach. AND MOST SEE THAT AS THE PROBLEM.

  111. Just from reading the posts you can tell which side listens and which side gets insulting.

    The most flagrant of these insulters is one Margaret Hurley who has a love affair with Renney who could do no wrong in her mind.

    If you don’t see things her way, you are a raving lunatic. She blasts a season’s subscriber who has had enough of Renney and hasn’t been to a game in months. That makes him a lunatic? You are the one who is out of your mind for that insulting remark.

    Read the posts by mstourin, zubie, peter and some others here who give an excellent analysis of Renney’s shortcomings and why he should be replaced.

    You are eating too much of your cookies and drinking too much Ranger kool aid. Get a grip and come back to reality.

  112. I would guess there is a lot of sentiment in the NYR locker room like Fritsche’s, we just won’t hear about until the players escape from “The System”.

    I used to be a Renney fan, and I still think he is a good, intelligent hockey man, as Carp says. He has just hit his wall with this team. My main problem, as others have said is the complete lack of accountability. How in God’s name do Redden and Kalinin get a uniform for each game, without sitting even once? This, to me, shows that Renney’s No. 1 concern is not to piss off Sather.

    I would vote for Torts just to shake things up. After all, Fear can be an effective motivator for players too, and this group desperately needs some motivation. Could Sather really do something this “inspired”?

  113. Has anyone every known someone who is really super smart but has the common sense of a 10 year old???? I don’t know Renney but maybe thats him.

  114. I believe Jagr was not asked back because he didn’t like Renney’s “system” and look what we got. Jagr may not been what he used to be but the Rangers were a better team with him.

  115. Prucha rec’d more pp ice time in his first season because he was a higher skilled forward than the majority of the other ranger forwards, now he is in a group of forwards with similar skill level (we all would like even more skill) and like many of those forwards has not distinguished himself and is lacking in the d zone more than most of the other forwards and that will get you more time on the pine than other in a defencive playing system. Common sense really (does not me I like it or that anyone else should like it, but a fact). In another system like with the blackhawks or a more offencively open system, pru might have a chance to really produce or atleast more of an opportunity to do so.

  116. Think about the young guys when they were playing with Jagr or even in the same room. Jagr brought character to this team and the kids listened to him, as well as respected him. Letting Jagr go was a bigger mistake then signing Redden. I know some of you are going to be PO’ed about that statement but if you think about it, I think most would agree. How about you Carp???

  117. Renney is okay.. not the greatest, but okay.. my only prob is his treatment of Prucha..The team ends last season in decent cap shape, begins new season in worst cap position in the league – with no notable improvement -that is all Sather and he shld be out..

    everyone knew that Redden contract was a joke..but “slats” panicked and signed a “name” PP guy, who is soft and on the downside.. instead of waiting out for a better UFA/RFA class next year.. all attenion shld have been focus on acquiring Boumeetseter..a young, strong and Dman on the upside..

  118. Shanahan has been great for the Devils. Even if it’s just 5 games, tell me what 5 games in a row has anyone on the Rangers 4th line made such an impact?
    Prucha is not Pavel Bure, but he is a proven goal scorer who has had more and more time taken away from him every season for no apparent reason. He is held to a different standard than Callahan, Dawes, Sjostrom, etc. The only apparent difference is that he is a huge fan favorite and therefore seems to be pulled quicker.
    Blandness rules.

  119. btw, in his soph year, even though the total goals were down, didnt prucha lead the team in goals/TOI – not sure, but I thght this was the case (too lazy to chk right now)

  120. The Canadiens should have left these jerseys in 1915.

    I don’t even know how to feel about Renney anymore. For every argument, there’s a good counter-argument. I feel that as long as the players still listen to and respect him, he can remain as coach. I think the yellers do mroe harm than good, especially with a young team like we have.

  121. Our record at this point would indicate we are a better team without jagr, but the jury is obviously still out….Im just playing devil’s advocate here.

  122. Wicky229 I’m with you on that, but the Rangers have played more games then most. I just think the personality and respect for Jagr went a long way with the kids.

  123. Plus Jagr is a ligit superstar, and recently someone said in these posts was that a superstar has to make people around him better. I think thats our Jagr.

  124. ..the record is the record, but watching the team, I just dont know of they are better – than last yr – Dru and Gomez not so hot, Dubi/Dawes a couple steps back, Redden subtraction by addition …I think they will be fighting it out for the 6-8 playoff spot by year end (given most teams have game in hand)

  125. Cynar

    No doubt about the respect factor whether you liked jagr or not he was a great player.

  126. Jagr saved this team and Renney’s and Sather’s job. He made it respectable to play in New York again. Renney was along for the ride, but seems to take all the credit. Lundqvist and Shanahan were important too, but Jagr was made for New York.
    Renney is a good guy, but seems to have maxed out his ability. He doesn’t have the creativity that Jagr had, but he tried to jam Jagr into his defense first system last year, and everyone paid the price. Is Boudreau that great a coach, or is he the right coach for Ovechkin — that’s the difference.

  127. Carp

    Thanks for the provocative subject and hope you and everone enjoy the day!

    I’m out!!!!

  128. The widespread preoccupation with Prucha is definately over the top.
    Fan favorite– YES.
    Mismanaged and unfairly evaluated– YES.
    Deal Breaker– NO
    Over used example– YES

    Remember the movie RUDY? Tireless, relentless work ethic and unwaivering sportsmanship in the face of overwhelming odds. In his final game, his teammates force him into the lineup, the crowd erupts, he makes something happen in his only chance and his dad cries man tears of joy.

    Let’s chnge the story for analogies sake:
    What if Rudy was a junior and he returned the next year to a regular roster position because of his phenomenal teamsmanship the prior season? Fans would love him for a while…then they’d see his shortcomings…then they’d complain about something else…then they’d call for his benching… citing a promising new talent waiting in the wings, only to have an “dwarf” hogging his roster spot.

    Prucha’s attitude and story bring all kinds of warm and fuzzy sports feelings to our hearts… but let’s recognize it as such and not much more.

  129. even though production was down, I thght Jagr played his @ss off just about every game/shift last yr..taking huge hits, even standing up for teammates – that earned his teammates’ and my respect, as much as being a superstar..(admittedly, I was confused by the no penalty shot thing, but I let him skate by on that)

  130. what i never got or will never get is renney and sather bring in a known scorer in jagr, build a team around him and he has one of the best years of his carrer, puts the rangers back on the map as a team that deserves respect again, then the next season change your entire stratagy to play defence first and expect every one to go along with it and still produce at the same level. The only thing jagr lost his last year was his respect for the rangers organization and his will was broken by them trying to force it on him. now this year with jagr gone there is no respect for the rangers or any of the players.

  131. jeffluke we don’t have to use a player as an example let’s look at the Devils. No real superstar’s (except fatty fat boy) but the coach has taken his team, and used a system that matches what he has and bingo. They broke into the top 3 this weekend. It’s all a matter of why does most people see this, and want to change some things, but the coach doesn’t. When he does change things they are insignificant, or the wrong people are sitting out.

  132. While i agree he has nothing to build a team on, he has destroyed scorer after scorer who has come to new york. drury, naslund, and jagr to name a few. his defensive style is ruining players who could score. he also has terrible line combination and sather needs to realize dubinsky should be a healthy scratch and is not a good player and should probably a fourth line center. trade him and get value. it is time to dismantle the team through trade. every other team has great young players but the rangers just have young players. they should have kept hossa, he was much better than all of these other young players.

  133. Until Renney gets the Rangers out of the second rd of the PO’s he needs to go.

    How many HOF players did Colin C have on his team? His club was very good when he took over and he ran the club with Smith into the ground.

  134. Carp,

    You said it all.

    Sather should be tarred and feathered. No top prospects on the way and no cap room to make improvements. Economy will keep the cap from growing for many years. The Redden signing will handcuff them for years.

    Team has no shut down defenseman. Limited size and physicality. Nobody who has been a first line star anywhere even though they make $7MM. Limited speed and finesse.

    Sather is 100% responsible for at best a mediocre franchise.

    And yes this team is probably the most boring group I have ever seen.

    Credit to Renney for keeping them somewhat competitive.

  135. Jagr was great to watch and forced other teams to watch him, giving other lines a chance to succeed. And you could actually see Dubinsky improve game by game playing with Jagr. This year, except for Zherdev, it doesn’t matter who’s out there — it’s the same old thing every shift. And it’s easy for the other team to defend against the Rangers — they don’t have to pay extra attention to anyone. The Rangers also used to have lines with different styles — now they’re all the same — that adds to the boredom.

  136. yesitspms that exactly what I think. Jagr loved it here in NY, and would have done anything for this team. They tried to stick a square peg in a round hole, and forced him out. He brought a lot to this team not just goals.

  137. The team says they are close… BS!!! According to a friend he saw a couple of guys out at a great club last night… hope practice was in the afternoon today… About that, they might be close off the ice but if Renney keeps changing the lines every game and during games this team will never grow to be the offensive threat they should be. Enough said… and Somehow let Girardi take shots and make some offensive plays.. BLAIR BETTS FOR PRESIDENT!!!! (Rumor has it he was literally born short handed and that is why he so good on the PK)

  138. Granted the game is different now, I’d argue that 2 players on this team would have fit in on the 94 team, but no more.

    Hank, for all is talent, isn’t one of them. Simply enough, when the tough gets going, Hank does not. Tim Thomas is a guy who can let in 4 goals in the first period and then stand on his head the rest of the game en route to a 5-4 win. When Hank let’s in a bad goal at any point in the game, he collapses. Rarely does he bounce back from a bad goal and play well. He’s either locked in or completely erratic. It’s never anywhere in the middle.

    The 94 rangers team had a lot of highs and lows during that playoff run and I don’t think Hank can handle that type of emotional roller coaster. I hope he gets the chance to prove otherwise.

    I think Chris Drury and Mac Staal could have played on that team, and that’s where it begins and thats where it ends for me. Albeit, I wouldn’t substitute them for anyone.

    Drury is a lot like Larmer, but I’d argue Larmer was a better overall player; simply b/c of his physical presence and forechecking. I could also see Marc Staal playing well alongside Brian Leetch. Sure, he’s no Beukeboom, but he could easily be the thunder to leetch’s lightning.

    The 94 Rangers played a north/south game that was very physical. Can’t see anyone else fitting in. Certainly not Scott Gomez, the entire defensive core

  139. Rich I agree with you that Tom is a good coach, however, I do not believe that he is good enough to win the cup. Now I also agree with you that this team has flaws that will prevent it from winning the cup, even with a good coach. I beleive that in order for the team to get passed the 2nd round and to win the cup we need to get a new coach. Now I know that it does not mean that we are going to win the cup, the team might actually take a step back. But it is the price I am willing to pay to see the Cup in the Staten Island Mall again.
    I beleive that although that Renney is a good x’s and O’s coach I do not think that he is a good in game coach. He never knows when to call a time out to organize and settle down the team. There have been plenty of times in the past couple of seasons where the team was outplayed for a long stretch of time, whether it resulted in 2-3 goals against or none, he never called a time out to settle the team down and scold them or teach them. He also does not know how to pull Hank or give hiim a night off. There have been plenty of games in the past couple of years where hank just did not look right and gave up soft easy goals. However, Tom stayed with him in net and the team lost by a goal or two, that should have been stopped. Now im not saying that Valy would have done better but you do not let a goalie whos is having a bad night stay in no matter who it is.

    I disagree with you on the notion that if we play the way we played the third we would lose 10-2 all the time. Lets go back to the Devils game when we were down by 5 goals and came back only to give up 3 more after that. I think that when we scored the goals to come back we played outside renney’s defense first style. however, as soon as we tied it up the team went back to the defense first style of Renney and ended up losing the game. I do not beleive that this team is built to play defense first. This is illustrated by the 10 game winning streak at the start of the season. this is when we played offense first and let that be our defense. I have a million other reasons but have to go.

  140. Wicked,
    Your logic is so flawed. First, you say Prucha is NOT a proven scorer and now finds himself on a team that is composed of 2nd, 3rd, 4th liners but he can’t crack the lineup because he’s not good 5 on 5. But then your next post is that Prucha “rec’d more pp ice time in his first season because he was a higher skilled forward than the majority” …majority meaning Jagr, Nylander, and Straka were the top-3 also with Rucinsky (who had a good season and avg more than 1 pt/game) and Sykora?
    So given the state of this PP and the other players who have been terrible minues (5 on 5) most of the year, how is Prucha not cracking the lineup?! You’re logic is circular. He’s not good enough for a bad bunch, but he was better than a good bunch?!

    Whoever defended Renney by saying *Jagr had 123 points once…* well, yea. And then he had 90 something. And then he had 70 something. Each year, Renney’s system got “stronger” and Jagr wasnt allowed to do as much as he would have liked.

    Also (and I think *Wicked* said this too), to freakin compare the goal production of Chris Drury’s first 3 seasons with Colorado (which was 20-20-24) when they had a team who not only won a cup, the top 3 players averaged about 260pts combined, is assanine! Drury got PP and EV ice time. The team goal production was much greater than this Rangers. Not only was the coach more generous to Drury, but the system was better, the pieces around Drury were better too.

    Also, if you think Drury’s a bonafide goal scorer I loathe you because you’re one of the reasons he’s being paid $7plus million.

  141. Carp, Tortorella won a cup in Tampa with a “safe is death” offensive system.

    and he had a very pedestrian D corps, except for Dan Boyle, who is, voila, an offensive Dman.

    and, if you watch the Devils games this year, and the Bruins games, you will notice that both Sutter and Julien, both of whom were defense first types, have both loosened up their systems to be more puck possession type balanced systems, and they are prospering because of it. yes, they also have more talent than in the past year too, but the talent cannot perform if the system suffocates.

    the fact that Renney sits out Prucha all the time is a perfect example of the fact that he wants robotic like overly cautious hockey that has NO ROOM for ANY offensive creativity at all. all backchecking and NO forechecking. I am certain that renney lobbied Sather to give him exactly the type of team he did. Renney wanted to be rid of the vets who had a mind of their own, because he remembers how Messier got him fired in Vancouver because Mess did not like Renney’s “system”

    no way would they get beat 8-2 very often if they played a 2 man forecheck. they might WIN 8-2 if those forecheckers were guys like Dubi and Callahan, because the puck would be in the other teams end more of the time. they played that way for 14 mins yesterday against the leading point team in the NHL, and they carried the play, and did not give up anything, so I don’t see where you get the notion that they would be blown out by playing a 2 man forecheck.

    also, Carp, the reason the rangers have gotten to the playoffs coincides with the arrival of Henrik. HE, not Renney’s system, is the main reason for any limited success.

    don’t forget, Renney made Kevin Weekes his #1 goalie in HL’s first season, and ignored Henrik, until injuries gave henrik a chance, and his performance and his popularity with the fans made it impossible for Renney to keep weekes as #1, even though he continued to say he was for a while longer.

    Renney was a complete failure in Vanc, and he is shackling and suffocating the Rangers attack to the point that they have no confidence and the PP is another symptom of that Renney offensive cluelessness.

    no, Renney has turned the Rangers into the Minn Wild on Broadway. boring pretenders.

  142. Renney is a great X’s and O’s coach which makes him a great assistant, but not a head coach. We need a motivator as our head coach and someone who is a good bench coach. Renney is not a good bench coach, or motivator. His in game adjustments are terrible, his benching/dislike of players like Prucha are insane, his team playing with no emotion, or urgency is a pure reflection of their zombie behind the bench coach, and his too many men on the ice and shorthanded goal give ups all show he is not a very good bench coach. He is great at systems and PK units all these signs equal a great assistant coach and not a great head coach. I think losing him as a coach will hurt this team especially in the short term, but bringing in a Tortorella as the head coach and headcase would compliment Renney if he was demoted to assistant.

  143. rangerfan re your 12:28

    staal is still signed so he is not an issue this offseason. dubi with so so season will not break the bank. and the redden and gomez contracts end in 5 yrs not 7.

  144. yesitspms his system defintiely got stronger as he faught with Jagr and others in the locker room about the style or system he wanted to play. Just look when Jagr got here the first year the Rangers were wide open let’s play hockey. You have got to be able to see that.

  145. The problem isn’t Renney, it’s the fact that Sather hasn’t given him any weapons and the team cant do anything about it because of all the money already invested.

    The only reason I could see to getting a new coach is if one was to think that the team had plateaued or had learned everything it could from Renney’s expertise(defense) and think that a more offensive monded coach would be able to get a bit more out of the offense while keeping the defense solid(see SJ).

  146. i am willing to admit his system is in play but as far as it working or improving i do not see. we still are not holding up or even contending for the cup.

  147. RICK you have this blog buzzing….SAM W chime in, speak your mind…….As the saying goes ‘there’s something wrong in NYRland’……

  148. It isn’t the Coach, but it is the fact that we have about three players that are basically the same, Callahan, Dawes, and Prucha. They are young, small, and have “potential”, but so far not one of them has proven capable of being a top six forward, but that is where we play them. This has got to change, get Drury on the wing and bring up Amisrov (SP) from Hartford as the third line center. We can’t afford much else!

  149. kirk dawes and callahan get their chance to prove what they are capable of prucha sits out most of the time, kind of hard to prove you are capable of anything from the press box instead of the rink.

  150. cynar 1:21 jagr would have to go through waivers to come back to nhl this season. so he won’t be a ranger or penguin this season.

  151. Guess someone can not spell or I have changed my screen name, but anyhow mr I put things in bold True Blow Hard or whatever your name is (lowering myself to your level). You obviously only read what you want and have TOTALLY taken things out of context. I (nor anyone else here) am renney, so I do not know why he sits pru and I really like pru. That being said pru has not done anything to increase his playing time in renney’s eyes so it really does not matter how flawed you think my logic is, he’s not playing. I was simply saying that perhaps the overall skill level of our forwards has increased since pru’s rookie season and the drop off in skill from our 1st and 2nd lines is not that great from the 3rd and 4th (more or less) now as it was in his rookie season. Therefore more interchangable parts and you need to distinguish yourself in all aspects of the game to get on the ice as an interchangable part. AGAIN, I am just trying to get in the mind of renney and figure out why perhaps that pru doesn’t play more.

    I do not think Dru is a bonafide goal scorer, I was trying to make a point of 3 and a partial seasons DO NOT make a player a proven scorer especially with declining production (for whatever reason) after the first season. No kidding those Avs teams were great, DUH!! Everyone here rags on dru about not scoring more, but he is on pace for about an avg dru season, hell I like everyone thinks he is overpaid and would love to have him score 40 goals a season, but probably not going to happen anytime soon.

    I think prucha has a good offencive skill set and on a team that wasn’t so defencively oriented or that WOULD dress a forward just as a PP specialist, he would score a lot more, but just stating what we all know there.

    Hate the fact you loathe another ranger fan and can not spell screen names properly, but you want to act like you are 5 fine, guess I’ll play your game for a bit!!

  152. I dont know if this has been brought up before or not…
    why not agree to trade redden(to whoever would take him, maybe this is a huge assumption to make, thinking there is actually a team that would want him) and agree to pay half of his contract. ex. the NYR would pick up 3-3.5 million per year and the team he was traded to would only be responsible for the remaining salary value.

    i think it would be similar to how the NYR were only picking up half of jagr’s contract while he was here and WASH was picking up the other half.

    an addition by subtraction kind of thing. at least he would be moved and the NYR wouldnt have to eat all of his contract.

  153. lenny you talk about insulting people from 1 side and then you throw out the insult “drinking the cool ade” as if people who have an opinion different than you don’t have a brain to make their own mind up.


  154. Chris from Albany, that’s hilarious. Except that G.S. could take the criticism and was front and center to take responsibility, too.

    PJ, we’ve been over this with Redden: It isn’t eating the money, it’s the salary cap hit … and somebody would also have to admit the mistake in the first place.

  155. Jagr has made subtle hits to the media about the “system” he plays in last year. You can tell he wasnt happy with it. His point totals declined each year. But the line of Jagr, Nylander, Straka had over 620 points in 2 years yes TWO years. Because they played their game and their way…

    You wont see it again until there is a proven scorer on this team. They should have built this team with LQ out. They took a gamble on Redden said he would be the QB and is a great first outlet passer, Just needed a change of scenery. Well we all see how well that deal worked out. And we are stuck with him.

    These are pieces of puzzles that just dont fit together. This team was put together half assed no matter how good Sather’s “intentions” were. This coach (while you have all made excellent points) has flaws. Im not going to go over them all because they were all made clear in former posts. Renney cant get this team to play consistent. Because his “system” isnt consistent. When the played that hard forecheck, attack style you got the 3rd pd in SJ, you got one of the best games you saw all season in DET, you got the last 12 min of the recent BOS game. Other than the full game in DET they didnt yield many GA. SO that all out attack system is good defensively. NOW – When they went up 5-0 against MTL what happened? They went into that “system” defensive shell. They took their foot off of the gas and stopped attacking. You all know what happened.

    NJ game. Case in point – same thing. Rangers put their foot on the gas, attack, attack, attack – tie the game. Foot off the gas – preserve and protect for the OT or SO. Nope Devils counter on NYR flaws. THAT MY FRIENDS IS COACHING. Nothing else. This team CAN score goals. We have seen it….

    The PP has been HORRIBLE the past 3 years and the COACHES dont practice it? WHY!?!?!?!?
    Do they think its going to resolve itself?? The best player in the WORLD who scored 5 goals in two back to back games (hat trick today) call out the coaching staff. I mean everyone sees it!!!!

  156. sorry folks, but Renney’s system IS the problem. proof of that is the fact that even last year when they had several veteran proven scorers, they STILL finished near the bottom of the league in goals scored.

    AND, furthermore, the cautious trap he is playing is NOT working, ’cause they are minus 8 for the season in 5-on-5 play, and THAT is a definite indictment of his system. he can’t even trap his way out of a paper bag.

  157. Yes It Is PMS (nice name!) haha. When we said (in quotations) that the system got “stronger,” we didn’t mean it got better or that it worked. We literally meant Renney’s push to impart the system onto ALL players style’s for 60 minutes per game got stronger with each season.

    Wicked (which is a good term in Boston, btw). Once you put everything in context, I can understand your point (although your logic is still circular). My question then is how have guys like Voros (after the first 2 weeks of the season), Dawes, and Sjoestrom really stood out? How has Orr kept a seat in the lineup the game’s that Voros also plays? Neither of those have stood out, yet Orr plays every game and played probably 30+ games that Voros was in the lineup doing nothing, nada, zilch… oh wait, he was getting PIM’s!

    Prucha is the black sheep. Renney has no problem disciplining impressionable Euro’s (Zherdev, Prucha), and young players in general (Dubinsky, Staal last season, Hank his first season). If this team NEEDS goal scoring and the PP is that bad then you find a way to get a guy who scored 16 PP goals in a season into your lineup, doesn’t matter if he plays 4 EV strength minutes and then 75 out of every 120 seconds of PP time.

    That said, *WICKED* i’ve realized another flaw in your log. If Renney saw Prucha as just a waste 5on5 and only a threat on the PP then why does he get almost 0 minutes on the man-advantage? Ohhh… in the words of Ron Burgundy, ‘Watch the guns, they’ll getcha!”

  158. HockeyViper

    You wrote:

    “The only reason I could see to getting a new coach is if one was to think that the team had plateaued or had learned everything it could from Renney’s expertise(defense) and think that a more offensive monded coach would be able to get a bit more out of the offense while keeping the defense solid(see SJ).”

    Let’s see… I think about 34 of the previous posts said that they believe team has plateaued under Renney.

    Learned everything it could from Renney’s expertise (defense)??? I think they have learned that Renney’s expertise is far overhyped and they now know that they cannot win by playing his defense-only “system”.

    An offense-minded coach might get a “bit more” out of the offense??? Our scoring has gone down drastically every year since Renney’s first season, as Renney has implemented his system more and more. The only conclusion is that it will continue to go down, and therefore wins will be harder and harder to come by.

    Putting the stick boy behind the bench would instantly generate more offense – just by the removal of Renney’s “system”.

  159. Pardon me, I was incorrect. I watched the game on Thursday against Boston vs. Penguins and Friday Penguins vs. Devils. When I have to work on Saturdays Thursday and Friday sort of blend together.

    So, the Rangers held a rested best team in hockey to one goal. I still have no problem with that or the stategy to try and wear down the opposition.

  160. Maybe Jagr’s points went down because he went from 34 to 35 to 36 yrs. old and he had a serious shoulder injury.

    Firing Renny could give NYR a temporary lift but I don’t believe in a 7 game series it would matter if they were playing a better team.

    Even last year Carp says Renney outcoached Sutter. I believe Marty had a terrible series and that is why NYR won.

    Personally I believe coaching in hockey is extremely overrated. It always comes down to the players as supplied by the GM.

    I saw the Devils,Red Wings win with multiple coaches.

    Even Edmonton won with Sather and Muckler and we saw how well they coached here.

    Its the players.

  161. Mhurley at 12:20 said:

    “I believe the stategy was for the Rangers to keep Boston off the board and tire them out during the first two periods. Both teams were pretty even on shots in the first two periods.

    Because Boston had played the night before against Pittsburgh, of course Renney would press the forecheck in the third when Boston might be running out of gas. The Rangers out shot Boston 2-1 in the third. Too bad Rask played like Roy and Boston didn’t run out of gas.””

    That is incorrect. They are playing Montreal today. They last played Thursday night against the Devils.

  162. Bee, you’re wrong. Sorry. Jagr had 90 something points the year after coming back from the dislocated shoulder. He then had mid-70’s two years after the shoulder. That’s 50 points fewer than the first full season as a Ranger!! Jagr was older, but people were gloating about how Tom Renney even “got Jagr to play some defense and buy into the system…” well that system sucked the offense right out of Jagr, my friend. Thank Renney for the diminished offense. Thank Pearn for the PP wasting more of the point production Jagr should have had as well.

  163. LI Joe I agree his is an outstanding player but it still a matter of playing a system with what you got. Renney wanted Jagr and company out of here so he could work in his system. The system is seriously flawed and so is the coach. Welcome to the 08-09 NYR.

  164. mhurley:
    Too bad Rask played like Roy and Boston didn’t run out of gas.


    Stop listening to the stupid MSG announcers! They’re paid to make the Rangers seem less awful! Backup, backup goalies have looked good against the Rangers this year… BECAUSE OF THE RANGERS! It hasn’t been on their own accord. The Rangers have done it two or three times this year.

  165. Alex B,

    The Bolts won the Cup with Torts AND Khabibulin. Take Bulin out of the equation and you have have a losing team post lock out. Also, Torts called Vinnie out in the press and alienated him. Renney hyas been able to juggle all the prima donnas that have come and gome since before the fire sale. Tortorella would have had fist fights with Jagr, Gomez and even Henrik if he was here. The grass isn’t always greener.

    If I could ask Renney any question it would be, would you rather have seen Jagr or Ward go?

  166. mhurley….I don’t think anyone is saying Torterella is the exact coach we need but I think most agree it’s time for a change.

  167. I will repeat it. the rangers are MINUS 8 in 5-on-5 play this season.

    so, Renney’s system is a failure, even from that standpoint.

    having as your main objective just trying to keep the opponent’s score down, to, in effect, lose close, is, IMHO, a defeatist attitude that just begs for a firing.

  168. Carp,

    SOme comments I read many but not all the posts.

    I am not delusional to think this is a cup winning team but they have talent more then some think.

    Girardi is 24 he can play, Staal (has superstar written all over him), henrik is a tremendous goalie maybe the best they have ever had, etc.

    I thin Renny is smart to play the D game becuase of the talent they have but I think they would be better off if they tried to become a real 4 line team that scores by committee. They have no stud scorer that is obvious but they have a lot of guys who can score in the 20 goal neighborhood. they do…. they have young guys who will improve(dubi, korpi, dawes, cally, etc) and they have older guys gomez, drury, naslund who are 20+ scorers.

    Roszival is a good D man who can score also.. Maybe I am nitpicking or my issues are minor but they include not playing Prucha, playing the likes of Orr, Sjustrom, VOros etc.

    As you stated who the hell knows if ANsimov or Prucha would really help things but why the heck not find out?

    THey can look into making minor moves which often benefit teams more over major moves, again why the heck not? They are not breaking of the red wings.

    I do not trade ANY young guys with upside those days were bad days..This team could be pretty good with some tinkering in a avg NHL.
    The bruins play the likes of; hniday, stuart, ward, axelson, thorton, yelle, and others.. None of these teams are loaded. Yes Bostons top end talent is better then the rangers but the rangers if they played the right guys would have better 3rd and 4th line players….

    why the stubborness on playing Kalinan for basically 50 games? He stinks plays soft and they have potential options in the AHL…

  169. no, bee, the coach has a lot to do with it, because if you’ll notice, after Scotty Bowman left the Wings, Dave Lewis, I think that is his name, who is a nice guy Renney type, was a complete failure and disaster with the same great players who won the cup.

    so, while you have to have good players, the coach does make a difference too.

  170. True Fans Bleed RWB,

    Don’t tell me what or whom I should listen, too. Rask played well and got some help from Mr. Iron. I can’t stand listening to Micheletti. I wish they’d put Dave Maloney up there in his place. Dave doesn’t sugar coat anything.

    If Rick’s intention was to get the M.O.’s of the people who post here, he certainly achieved his object.

    The Rangers aren’t awful. They have 62 points and are 11 games over .500. They have no defense and no pure goal scorers. You can’t get blood from a stone. You want to go back to 8 years and no playoffs? I don’t.

    Keep up the negativiy and everyone will be playing golf in April.

  171. I amazed with the love affair with Torterrealla. I think he is a mike milbury bully know it all.. I am not impressed with his act.

    The rangers have playoff talent no doubt in my mind do they have NHL winning toip end talent obviously not and with Cherapanovs death there high end talent is even less.

  172. Jagr’s 3 years he went from 54 to 30 to 25 goals.

    He lost the velocity on his shot as he aged and hurt his shoulder.

    He played for Renney when he scored 54 goals.

  173. mhurley – i would agree with you more than i ever would with “true fans” BUT in bettman math a team with 92 pts over an 82 game season is really .500 since w’s count and l’s don’t the way they write up the standings. and a lot of the w’s have come in the shootout. and the team as coached by renney is incredibly boring.

  174. What I think should happen, is they fire Renney, and get Messier. I personally think he would do a much much better job than Renney is now. I also doubt he would put everything on one player, and completely leave out the top guys. This whole Renney/Prucha situation is stupid. He is completely ruining Prucha. It SHOULDN’T be happening. I think we need a new coach, PRONTO.

  175. bee yes he did. but as others have said, renney has tightened his grip on the way the team was to play to even more offense stifling. and the officials have changed the way they are callng the game to let many infractions go. the 1st yr you could go to the net and if a dman even breathed on you it was a penalty. so that style of play (including the officials role) was conducive to both jagr’s and prucha’s game.

  176. I have a question for long time hockey and Ranger fans.

    If this year was your introduction to hockey, the first time you ever went to or watched games. Do you think you would be as passionate a hockey fan, love the game?

  177. Think of it this way. All of the people who say Renney must go seem to agree that he is a smart hockey coach. So if someone could get to Renney and make him open his mind up to some changes Renney could probably stay the coach. Look at the NY Giants. Coughlin change his personality and the team took off. Fans are just asking Renney to hold players acct. prove to us that Prucha doesn’t deserve more time then other players. Step up the system, more pressure more puck poessesion. I just don’t understand how Renney doesn’t see what most all others see.

  178. True whatever

    A) I do not think renney sees pru as a threat on the powerplay, I do, but I do not think he does which causes this whole freaking prucha debate.

    B) I addressed the orr issue in a post around 1:50pm or so and I think (again just an opinion) that renney really will take size with a lesser skill set in the line up than a higher skill set with less size. When it comes down to pru and dawes, I think he views dawes’ skill set as a bit better and more defencively responsible than pru and the size similar. Now that I have held your hand through this one any other questions junior?

  179. please no to messier. it would break my heart to hear all the monday morning qb’s calling for his head.

  180. Again, both Naslund and Dubinsky were quoted in the paper this morning that the pressing, forechecking, aggressive play they were permitted to use in the last 15 minutes of the game is how they should play all the time.

    This was the style of game Renney told us he wanted to play in the 08’09 preview show. It is the game they played right out of the gate in amassing a 10-2-1 start.

    I don’t know about anyone else feels, but these players are pretty close to the situation, so I’ll take their word for it.

  181. bee – hard to say. as an impressionable kid just being there with the ice etc would still be good. i know one thing i felt more optomistic back then (early 70’s after i started following in mid 60’s) than i do now. but we can also thank bettman with rediculous over expansion and style of play throughout much of the league that developed because of that. and the cap is terrible and sather has not helped in that regard especially with redden’s insane contract. but if i was a young kid i would not understand all that.

  182. PJ, first no one would want that contract unless they were giving up an equally bad contract which would solve nothing. also under the current cba you cannot pay a portion of a contract that you trade. Jagr’s contract was the last contract like that allowed and it was only allowed b/c the deal was reached before the lockout.

    this was supposed to be renneys big year to run things himself and so far id say its been a disaster. the pp hasn’t improved and scoring is still an issue. some of the blame surely goes on sather for compiling this jv team, but the coach is not altogether blameless, i mean the isles have a better pp than us with far lesser talent

    he surely improved the work ethic of the team in practice, but as has been seen this year and the past three years, his players take games, periods, shifts off and often times in large quantities and he does nothing (except bench Prucha). It took two remarkable stretch runs the past two years to make the playoffs while the team nearly collapsed three seasons ago and just made it in the playoffs. The way things are going right now, I think it is very conceivable that this team will finish in 6th or below and finishing in 8th would not surprise me at all.

    bottom line, without jagr, henrik and avery, renney would have had no more success than trottier/muckler/lowe. id go so far to say that the team has had success the past few years despite renney, not because of him.

  183. right, ford. the PLAYERS who are most affected by it are echoing our comments, or we are echoing theirs. I did not even see those quotes, so I’m glad we are posting real, ongoing concerns, not Mon quarterbacking.

  184. wicky reason # 1 why orr plays


    “Both Gagne and Upshall scored in that 5-3 Flyers win on Feb. 17, which was notable not only for the Shanahan injury, but the cheap and rough shots that some Flyers (Fedoruk, Eager, Richards, Picard) laid on Rangers starting soon after the puck dropped.

    So Colton Orr, who did not dress that game, surely will tomorrow.

    After that game, Garden chairman James Dolan apparently blew a gasket and lambasted both GM Glen Sather and coach Tom Renney for not dressing Orr, according to two persons familiar with the issue. “He said, ‘What the bleep is going on here?” according to one person who asked not to be identified.

    Since then, Orr has played in all 15 games”

  185. and drury has been quoted as being critical of renney constantly changing lines and not practicing the pp

  186. LI Joe,

    Mess is probably waiting for Sather to put together a real contender before he would deem the team fit for his leadership. Then, instead of Kalinin on defense we’ll have Lyon Messier. :)

  187. I was there in the 60s and 70s and I still have a share and get to about 15 games.

    I was not bored last year or the year before or really ever before. But now for the first time ever for me there are many, many boring games.

  188. rick oshea

    Well said. And let me scratch your back for citing the Dave Lewis experience in Detroit —- it is overlooked entirely by those who claim a coach can’t ever be a difference maker.

  189. Are you kidding me with your defense of Colin Cancer aka Colin Campbell? He makes Tom Renney look like Scotty Bowman. I find it funny how you stated there were no young players left. Actually there was. He hated Kovalev he ran Zubov out of town. He hated Nedved. He played a washed up broken down Kevin Lowe over Norstrom in back in the first half of the 95-96 season. The only young player he even treated well was 4th line goon dARREN lANGDON YEAH WHATEVER. cAMPBELL HAS NEVER GOTTEN ANOTHER JOB AS A COACH FOR A VERY GOOD REASON. hE IS PRETTY INCOMPETANT AT THE JOB HE HAS NOW.

  190. “Again, both Naslund and Dubinsky were quoted in the paper this morning that the pressing, forechecking, aggressive play they were permitted to use in the last 15 minutes of the game is how they should play all the time.

    “This was the style of game Renney told us he wanted to play in the 08’09 preview show. It is the game they played right out of the gate in amassing a 10-2-1 start.” — ford

    Case closed. Thanks ford.

  191. Wicked, while you were ‘holding my hand’ you proved my point… If Renney thinks Dawes is a more effective player than Prucha, then Renney is just a terrible judge of talent and biased towards North Americans. I made you do the work to prove my point. Perhaps junior’s smarter than his pappy?

  192. Li Joe

    Thanks, I was more replying to the true whatever it is poster who had the question about why some players dress and pru doesn’t. Was trying to use orr as an example. I don’t blame renney for always putting him in the line up after that post of yours reminded me of that situation.

    Thanks for the info!

  193. MHurley, oh I *WILL* tell you what not to do and when *NOT* to do it. You’ve watched too much Joe and Sam! You’ve watched too many MSG commercials! You probably also thought the Rangers were winning the cup the last couple seasons.

    This “negativity” is actually REALITY because “we” (wd40, salty, dubi or not dubi, a couple others…) have pretty much nailed every fault on this team this year and most of us have done it the past few seasons, ‘brah.’

    Now what?!

  194. Why do you guys not give Anisimov and Grachev credit for being top end prospects? The fact is these guys would have been drafted in the first round if not for the transfer agreement/fear of them not coming over/the NHL good ole’ boys trying to stick it to the Russians.

    These guys are both very good. They may not be Malkin or Ovechkin, but they can play. AA is fourth in the AHL at scoring at age 20 and has more points than either Dubisky and Kopri ever had in the AHL. He’s big and can play defense.

    Grachev is having a great year with Stan Butler on the Brampton Battalion. I think he’s #2 on the that team in scoring.

    I’m not saying these two are going to Superman and Batman and save the Rangers, but they are a HUGE part of the solution, not the problem. They ARE top prospects.

    As I said before: who ever heard of Datsyuk/Zetterburg before they were NHLers? Not that they’ll be that good, but you can dream……

  195. wicky – and the biggest part of that is the dolan part. he will never stand for it if they don’t have a major enforcer in the lineup and that does not include voros

    nicole – and it would be 10 times worse as gm or coach. i would greatly prefer messier not be subject to that

  196. Ford & wd40,
    I thank you gentlemen (or ladies). I hadn’t read those quotes, but it’s a perfect example of how this SAME mediocre team played well in the system that started the season (strong forecheck) and now is awful in this laid-back, counter-attack (while being unable to form a counter-attack) play.

    The difference in play and performance can ONLY be blamed on Renney. Same players. Same team that Sather assembled. Only difference is how Renney let them or made them play.

    Thanks Renney, enjoy building Team Canada this coming November!

  197. mike a – never saw either. i know of the hype and hope its true. other than staal i don;t think the current group of young uns are worthy of the hype (cally is probably next closest). not counting z since he was via trade.

  198. True

    Seriously???? That is your response, did not know you and I were at odds on any point. Where did I personally disagree with you about the rangers? I was just giving possible perspective of why renney does what he does. If I need to do your “work” for you to prove a point, you are a perfect example of the non working, lazy, soft players that are killing this roster and the team that many of us here love. I hope you do not make their kind of money or that might explain the financial crisis as well! IDIOT!!!!

  199. What is the truth about Shanahan and the Rangers this
    Did he want too much money? $2.5 million?
    Did he not want to play a lesser roll?
    With all the young forwards on the Rangers, wouldn’t he
    have been a great mentor?
    Media wise, wouldn’t he have taken some of the pressure
    off Drury which would probably help Drury?

  200. MikeA I hope you are right on Grachev and Antisimov but Cherapanov would have been in NY next year and looked phenomenal in last years WJC..

    if the 2 Russians can really play that will help a ton, the rangers have good D depth, they have many good young d men. Girardi is only 24, staal is 21, roszival the guy many love to hate jsut turned 30….

    the good news is there roster is real young, gomez who has been around forever just turned 29…..

  201. Messier shouldn’t be GM until he’s had an internship. He helped to run people out of town (Ferraro, Zubov, etc.) and had his click when he was a player. Until he works hard for the job, just say no.

    And look to everyone and Carp..can we please end all of this 94 stuff after Tuesday night? I will forever be grateful but it’s time for some new memories. MSG rams 94 down our throats every ten minutes. Get away from Messier and Leetch until both have worked as minor league GMS etc. Let Richter start his political career and if you’re a Democrat; support him, and let Graves keep working with the kids as he’s doing a great job.

    94 was awesome but please retire it until the 20th, 30th, 40th Anniversary, etc.

    Yes, feel free to curse me out if you’d like but I have a Tom Coughlin mentality when it comes to the Rangers.

  202. I’ve seen Anisimov play about 3 times live and a few times on TV. I believe in him the same way I believe Cally is going to be the perfect 20-20 support player to a superstar.

  203. haha !

    the Minn Wild on Broadway

    that is a perfect description of the Rangers under Renney’s hangback system.

  204. LI Joe

    Once again thanks, beginning to see your point! Almost feel sorry for him/her, almost.

  205. All Hail King Henrik on

    A defense-first system is definitely conducive to winning. It is also something required to win with this squad. If Renney were to be replaced (the best guy for the job was already hired in October–Joel Quenville) I would still want the new coach to employ a defense-first system.

    HOWEVER, having a defense-first system in place, does not mean this team needs to play “boring” hockey, or lack an offensive attack. You can play a defense-first system and generate offense.

    As you noted, Carp, there are many different versions of the trap. The Rangers lately seem to play the prototypical trap a la NJ in the 90s. But, there are modified traps that work well defensively as well as generate offense.

    Currently, the best example of this system is Boston. Detroit, San Jose and even New Jersey aren’t far behind.

    With the roster currently in place, this team needs to play defense-first to win. If the modified their trap a little bit, forechecked with a little more desperation and, most importantly, CRASHED THE NET, I think they could generate more offense. No terribly much, but more nonetheless.

  206. also, another example, ford, is the Wash Caps Bruce Boudreau

    the Caps under trapping nut Glen Hanlon were a lower rung bore, even with Ovechkin. but, they fired him and brought in Boudreau, who opened up the offense, gave his skilled players like AO, Green, and Semin etc the leeway to use their talent, and they have been a huge entertaining success since Boudreau arrived in midseason last year.

    so, again, the coach and his system can suffocate a team, or let it play with confidence and self-worth.

  207. Carp – You sound more like a fan than a journalist. I appreciate your ability to rev up the fan base but fanning the flames is unprofessional.

    Tone it down man. Not ever Ranger fan likes to hate their fav. team like you do.

    We come here for facts. Not opinions. Be a journalist.

  208. I’m cool with playing the trap, I want them to win at all costs and I don’t care if it’s boring because to me winning=fun.

    The problem I have is with the D personnel; only Girardi/Staal/Mara and at times Rozi can play the trap consistently. Redden is bad at defense and Kalinin is erratic. That is where Sather should have gone for a hard hitter and tough crease clearer like a Jason Smith or Mike Commodore or a Kurt Sauer. Heck, Ossi Vannanen is a good NHL player and was playing in Europe for a year and came back here for $1 million. THAT was under the radar.

    And BTW, this is definitely a broken record. but much like with Cally and Girardi in 06-07, I will not be satisfied as a customer until we get to see at least a glimpse of Anisimov and any of Bobby Sags/Sauer/Potter/or Reitz this year.

  209. All Hail King Henrik on

    re: Minn Wild on Broadway

    That’s what the Rangers are trying to be, but their execution is terrible in contrast to Minny’s. If you’re into defensive hockey, Minny’s system under Lemaire is a thing of beauty.

    Their trap is perfect, and the way they collapse around their net, especially when protecting a lead in the third, is phenomenal. All of the players seem synchronized to act as one. Their roster perennially lacks offensive firepower, yet they always seem to make the playoffs.

    The Rangers attempt to do this, but again, the execution is just not there due to both personnel, and to an extent, the coach. Lemaire IS the trap.

  210. STEVE when the rest of the media becomes unbias and objective, then you can demand it of a sports writer. Until that happens most reporting has become interpretations of facts , and opinions. Thanks for exercising your free speech, now let Rick and the rest of the world do so.

  211. All Hail King Henrik on

    P.S. It is funny that even though Minnesota has less offensive talent on their roster than the Rangers (considerably less), and perhaps play an even more conservative system, they score more goals than the Rangers do.

    23rd. Minn: 2.55 GPG
    28th. NYR: 2.43GPG

    It’s not much, but just 1 goal would’ve gotten this team in point last night…

  212. “Tone it down man. Not ever Ranger fan likes to hate their fav. team like you do.

    “We come here for facts. Not opinions. Be a journalist.”

    Thanks Steve, er, Tom Brokaw.

    Maybe the most laughable, moronic quote of the weekend.

  213. Vince Lombardi on

    playing the trap is like not rushing the QB.

    that is cheating the fans.

    it is the entertainment business, after all.

    I hate to break the news to some guys, but the league changed the rules to try to get away from the boring trapping Debbies hockey of the past decade.

    and I don’t want to sanction a return to those bad old days by supporting Renney and his neutral zone hockey.

    2 forecheckers, with a third man high, is the way to go. that way, you still have a backchecker, but you also are not playing like Jock-itch Lemaire.

  214. All Hail-This year Minny scores me because of the personnel. Even with Gaborik and his bad groin out, they have that Mettinen kid, Pierre-Marc Bouchard, and of course the younger Koivu.

    Also, they have a very good B-level D with the two should-have-never-been ex-Rangers Kim Johnson and Marek Zidlicky, Bret Burns is the anchor, and Marc-Andre Bergeron as a PP specialist, and don’t forget Martin Skoula and Nick Schultz; this is a mobile yet physical D.

  215. come on isles win some more games. only 4 back of atl and 6 back of ott. keep tavares and the swedish dman out of the division

  216. Vince Lombardi on

    “If you’re into defensive hockey, Minny’s system under Lemaire is a thing of beauty.

    Their trap is perfect, and the way they collapse around their net,”

    please. I DESPISE Jacques Lemaire, and his UGLY hockey, and everything he has done to ruin the entertainment value of NHL hockey.

    the low ratings of the past are a testament to that disgrace you seem to delight in.

    that is why the league had to change the rules. because of jerks like Lemaire, who has a captive audience in the State of hockey. but even there, the fans are very disgruntled, if you read the papers there, about his pathetic prevent defense.

  217. Hey LI Joe,

    Did you see Billy Guerin’s spin-o-rama goal last night? The old boy still has it. My kingdom for Richard Park. Park is the only consistantly good player on that team.

  218. mhurley – no i missed it. i could see the isles trading guerin or weight for draft picks and keep their chances good for getting 1st or 2nd pick. i would even sacrifice a loss to them if i knew that meant they would not get 1st or 2nd (worst team has 50% chance of 1st otherwise guaranteed 2nd).

    i dealt with them and my college buddies in the early 80’s and that pretty much soured me from hockey for those yrs. that’s why i’ll always be grateful to the oilers for beating them and surpassing them with 5 cups – 6 if you count 94′ for mess lowe and co.

  219. Stuart
    February 1st, 2009 at 4:16 pm
    I amazed with the love affair with Torterrealla. I think he is a mike milbury bully know it all.. I am not impressed with his act

  220. LIJoe,

    I hear ya. If the Lighthouse project doesn’t go through, the Fish will probably re-locate to someplace really cold. Ice Fish! :)

  221. You guys do realize that Michel Therrien changes the lines in almost every game that the Penguins are losing in the third, right? I believe they had two wins in the Finals last season, too.

  222. WD & Ford

    Which paper is that of those Dubinsky & Naslund quotes? I can believe that they said that…

  223. *Wicked,*
    You called me True Blow Hard, you then typed this: “Now that I have held your hand through this one any other questions junior?” And you called me a 5-year old for insulting you by not accurately re-typing your Name…?
    And then: “Seriously???? That is your response, did not know you and I were at odds on any point. Where did I personally disagree with you about the rangers? … IDIOT!!!!”

    Did I miss something? Is your mental capacity that low you don’t even realize when you are the one using insults to create a personal disagreement? Perhaps it is. So far today you’ve demonstrated Low IQ and Circular logic to support your arguments (which is probably a product of your low IQ). Thanks for wasting my time.

  224. “I like Tom Renney. He’s a true gentleman, first and foremost”

    Sure you do, Carp. And you hate Glen Sather. And I’m sure each and every one of your articles will be biased in these directions, like when you were last covering the Rangers.

    The NY sports media (and every city, I suppose, but I only know the NY media) will give coaches who are friendly and communicative with them every break in the world.

    Tom Renney’s coaching philosophy is horribly near-sighted. You don’t ever, EVER tell your team to only shoot for 2 goals a game, which Tom does frequently in his “we need to play 2-1 hockey” messages. You also don’t praise your team as often after LOSSES as Tom does. Maybe once in a while if the team really needs the ego boost, but not after nearly every game you lose.

    He has always aimed for the most modest of goals, and after 4 seasons of this no one should be happy with it anymore. It’s okay if we lose as long as we play well. Trying not to lose the game is what’s important, not trying to win it. The Rangers don’t ever try to win games unless they’re multiple goals down.

    This season has seen more Ranger fans disinterested in the team than any season I can remember, even with them hovering around the top-5 in the conference all season. The Rangers are one of the most boring teams in all of professional sports. The rest of the hockey world makes fun of how dull they are. But hey! Tom Renney sure is a nice guy, and under his safe and steady management, the team just might reach the 2nd round again. Oh boy.

  225. Two things that were directed toward me personally, and I don’t mind.

    But, most of the fans on this blog seem to enjoy reminiscing about ’94 and the great players who have been Rangers before then and since. I don’t think I will stop talking about ’94 or Messier, Leetch, Graves, Richter and all. Sorry.

    As for voicing my opinion, well, that ACTUALLY IS my job. And pretty much every time one of the blog readers asks me a question, it’s for my opinion. I’m not a fan, so when I give my opinion sometimes it’s going to be negative. Maybe a lot of the time it’s going to be negative. I could come on and rant and rave that everything is great and everyone is wonderful. I think I might have three readers if I went that way. Plus it would be dishonest. I am not doing that, either.

  226. PS, if we all in the media were in love with coaches just because they’re nice people, then Roger Neilson and Ron Low would be the two greatest coaches in Rangers history. Just wonderful, terrific people, both of them.

    But Keenan surely wasn’t one of those sainted folks, and yet he may have been my favorite coach to cover. Always brutally honest, always something going on, and obviously the only Rangers coach in the last 68+ years to win … Oh, I forgot, I’m not supposed to talk about the past.

    Now I’m going to watch some of the Super Bowl. Does anybody want to discuss that at all?

  227. Rick – love your take on the team. I still think this will be Renney’s last year – he’s a good coach with a good team, but his GM has tied his hands with some shoddy contract signings and some players which should never have made the team (Riss, Kalinin, Fritsche). If we don’t progress to the East finals then i think Slats will move him into a player development role and bring in another coach – probably a big name this time.

    As for the superbowl – GO STEELERS!!
    I don’t agree with that knee down sh!t – he fell onto the line – stupid over-complicated rules!! So far the Steelers Offense is making the headlines not the D.

  228. uk ranger – fritsche was part of the z deal where we also got rid of backmans contract. so he was not a shoddy contract signing. how can anyone judge riss off 2 games so i can’t say 1 way or the other about him.. kalinin is bad but he’ll be gone soon. redden was the disaster

  229. Says it all people: “”After they scored *we had no choice but to go on the offense*, and that’s how we have to play, that’s when we play our best – when we don’t worry so much and just go after teams.” – Naslund

  230. LI Joe – can you read what i said again and tell me where i said he was a contract signing?

    I said “some shoddy contract signings AND some players who should not have made the team”.

    I know EXACTLY where people came from, what they earn and what their cap hit is. I come on here to exchange opinions and stories not have someone try and pick my grammar to pieces. I’m English – its my language!!

  231. uk – well plenty of people seem to lump fritsche with the other free agent signings and as you know that’s simply not true. from reading your statement it seemed you were doing the same. if you were not fine. keep in mind i wrote it for others to see as well even though it addressed what you wrote.

  232. my big stink with Renney is how slow he is to react to things. Sometimes, a team will come in a start an aggressive forecheck that throws our transition game to pieces and there are no adjustments being made at all. Sometimes the team’s composure is missing, or we get shallacked for 2 quick goals and he doesn’t call a time out to get the team focused. And of course a third goal is scored. Not always. But it’s just that overall “what are you doing Tom?!?” frustration I get a lot watching the games. The guy can prepare his X’s and O’s but seems to lack the real-time on-the-fly reaction time and ability to adjust I want to see from a professional coach. That and the powerplay. I claim to have no answers but what is up with that?

  233. Renney does seem to take forever to make a decision. Just this week he decided to play Zherdev more by doubleshifting him — he said he was thinking about it for a while, and finally he did it at the end of February. Zherdev wasn’t even on the first power play for most of the season!

  234. LI Joe – just read what i wrote properly before criticising next time.

    Regardless, Fritsche should have gone straight to Hartford, he seems like he was just a “throw-in”. Riss and Kalinin were free agent mistakes. Voros needs to find the form he had at the start of the season otherwise he joins the group, when he was parked in front of the net it gave Dubi and Z so much more freedom to play and gave our D-Men a screen to shoot through (although they didn’t do that enough).

    As for Redden, he’s going nowhere so we better get used to him – or make arrangements for him to stay with Brian Leetch all summer.

  235. Zdeno Chara with Wade Redden. Zdeno Chara with Aaron Ward. Why didn’t the Rangers bring in Chara if he can make those two look good?

  236. astute onlooker on


    LI Joe can’t help it. He sits there at his desk waiting for someone to say that Orr should sit, Avery should come back, Fritsche was a lousy pick-up and off he goes. Every single time, usually with a link. Does he add anything? No. But he gets off playing the crossing guard, issuing summons and threatening to take names to the principal. Not a pretty picture.

  237. Like how the Rangers have been playing regardless of the last two losses. Henrik was great last game and they started playing Zherdev on two lines (which I love the tradeoff for Orr who is a good roleplayer but not needed every time Renney rolls the lines) is good. Crashing the net and taking offensive chances is something this defense and goaltenders can allow. They are that good.

    neways back to superbowl be sure to peep out next post tomorrow!

  238. uk – if you didn’t tell me what you meant i would still read it the same way so no need for you to be obnoxious.

    i see bob woke up in his 7:36 post

  239. LIJoe makes up things as he goes along.

    You also didn’t follow the whole thread Joe. I only insult kool aid drinkers who first insult those who don’t agree with them. Learn the whole story before you make an ass of yourself.

  240. lenny – you’ve been using the cool ade line since the lockout. here and elsewhere including BB where you used to post before you were banned or otherwise asked to stop posting. i’ve seen your act for the last almost 4 yrs and you are far from holier than thou.

  241. astute onlooker on

    LI Joe, you blew it on this one. Just own it and tell UK you are sorry for the misunderstanding. It’s not that hard.

  242. bob- i misread what he wrote since it was not and is still not clear to me until he now states what he meant. absolutely no need for an apology except for you putting your nose in other peoples business

  243. LI Joe – Have you got anything to say about the team or do you just come on here shooting your mouth off about everyone else and their opinions or grammar?

    What an interception by Harrison!! Go Steelers!

  244. astute onlooker on

    LI Joe, the Unintentional Comedian

    “…keep in mind i wrote it for others to see as well even though it addressed what you wrote.”

    Followed by

    “…absolutely no need for an apology except for you putting your nose in other peoples business.”

    As Bugs Bunny would say, what a maroon.

  245. uk – if someone gives a stmt that i can help others by clarifying i will. (example why orr is playing), meanwhile i’m done with you as i see you are adding no value to any conversation we are having. i could care less about the grammar as i have plenty of typos myself.

  246. to comapre siginigs of VOrs($1 mill a yr.) Rissmiller(same) as bad signings is true but immaterial or insignificant.

    Rissmiller is in the AHL and his $1 mill is nonsense..

    You are never going to get it all right the big mistake is Redden.

    Whine all you want about gomez and Rosz but GOmez is 29 and still a very good player who is having a bad year. Redden looks bad period.

    also as bad as Drury is playing he still will get about 25 goals, redden has 2 goals and stinks on D….Redden is the huge mistake; voros, rissmiller, etc are nonsense…

  247. LI Joe – big deal. Who cares about any banning? You should be banned for being a jerk, at least I post about hockey and if you can’t stand the kool-aid, stop drinking it.

  248. Laviolette and/or Tortorella would do much better with this team than Renney has or will.

    Just look across the river to see what a good coach can do with average talent

  249. Right on twin. Can’t believe half of these fans on here want to keep Renney. An endless supply of kool-aid and Hurley cookies.

  250. True Bore

    Ah yes, you read my post not fully understanding it, stating it was full of problems logically to YOU, say you loathe me when you really had no idea what it was about and you spell my screen name wrong repeatedly. Lots of people here may not understand or agree with each others posts, but you immediately went personal and now you act all indignant about it when someone does it to you. Like others have stated here, forget about dealing with you (making an inference here)! You are the first one between us to go personal so you have no one to blame here but yourself for the digression of this conversation and everyone following this thread can see that, so do us all a favor and grow up or drop it.

  251. Dubinsky quote – “We reached the point of desperation,” Dubinsky said. “The way we were playing the last 14 minutes, run and gun, sending three guys in, I don’t know that we can play like that the whole time, but we have to play with that same passion the whole way. There’s no reason we can’t play with the same intensity and passion for 60 minutes, not just when we’re desperate.”

    Naslund quote – “I think both teams were pretty cautious about not losing, about giving up odd-man rushes and that kind of stuff,” said Markus Naslund. “After they scored we had no choice but to go on the offense, and that’s how we have to play, that’s when we play our best – when we don’t worry so much and just go after teams.”

    ford: Those quotes don’t sound like ringing endorsements for any particular style of play all the time per your statement earlier. Rather that the team was behind, you have to play harder or with intensity from the get-go so as not to be behind.

    I’m sure if Dawes doesn’t have that brain freeze and the game ended in regulation 0-0, you’d have players saying “we played our game keeping them off the scoreboard blah blah blah.”

  252. Rich

    I give you credit for taking a stand even if it is one I disagree with. It is easy to say that Colin Campbell was a good coach but I am sure if you were a French Canadian hockey player then you would have a very different opinion on that subject.

    Tom Renney is a great guy, a smart guy and has done a great job for the Rangers. The problem is that his best work has not been as a coach and it never will be.

    Renney gets outsmarted by the other team’s coaches. Renney has never shown the ability to make the in-game, on the fly adjustments that are needed to win games.

    Renney repeatedly gets out coached and out smarted because he is too methodical. You would have thought that seeing a goalie making his NHL season debut that you would have run traffic at him, that you would have tried to rattle him by spraying some snow at him (as the Canes tried to do with Vally the other day).

    You blame the coach when a team repeatedly makes the same mistakes whether it is “Too Many Men” calls or does not show up with a full 60 minute effort. That is the nature of the position.

    You blame the coach when he has selective accountability as has been the case with Renney. If Dubi screws up he gets benched. If Gomez makes a lazy turnover nothing happens.

    You blame the coach when a team stinks up the place and they get the next day off instead of being made to practice.

    You do blame a coach when a team repeatedly fails to learn from their mistakes like the Rangers do. When a team fails to give their best effort that is the fault of the coaching staff as well as the player leadership.

    Yes Sather deserves the lion’s share of the blame for taking a more active role this season with his player moves but the Rangers themselves set Renney up for failure with their own talking heads.

    When Renney does get the ax then he can thank the Maven and John Giannone for sharpening the ax. Those 2 swore up and down the with Jagr and Avery gone the finally for the first time Tom Renney had HIS KIND OF TEAM.

    It is also bogus to say that the Rangers lack offensive firepower as they have players who can score but the system being used is what handcuffs them.

    Truth be told the Rangers have to play a “defensive” system because the blueline has 3 players who can’t play defense on it.

    Tom Renney is a desk jockey, a planner and that is where the Rangers would get the best out of him. I said this in the previous thread that the Rangers need someone who will demand that the players give 60 minutes and will hold even the stars accountable.

    But I am bothered by the perception that people have that the Rangers do not have Top Level Prospects. That is so far from the truth that it is not funny.

    Yes the Rangers do not have the franchise type prospects but to get those the franchise types then the Rangers would have to royally stink up the place like the Pens did to get Crosby and Malkin or the Caps to get Alex.

    There is talent coming and it is better than people realize. I give Renney the credit for helping to rebuild the entire scouting and developmental program in 2004.

    It is more than Anisimov, Sanguinetti and Grachev. It is a Michael Del Zotto who is going to be a force on defense, it is a Derek Stepan who is one of the best college freshman in the NCAAs this year, it is a Carl Hagelin who knows how to play shut down defense and score the clutch goal.

    There are some dark horse picks to watch as well like Max Campbell of Western Michigan, Chris Doyle of Prince Edward Island and Tomas Kundratek (who just loves to hit).

    Yes the Rangers still have needs like goaltending depth and could us more size on the wing but the pipeline is starting to work and for that I will give Renney credit for.

  253. Lenny,

    Blah, Blah Blah, Blah, Blah. Keep talking. No one cares what you think. I know I certainly don’t. The more you talk the dumber you look.

  254. Timbo

    If you think Naslund and Dubinsky would prefer to play a 1-2-2 than to attack and show/exploit/create opportunities in the offensive zone, I think you’re completely off target. Anyone who’s played the game at an organized level would not delay for a split second in making that choice.

  255. Vince Lombardi on

    that is right, ford. also, they are careful in their criticism because they don’t want to rock the boat too much. you can be sure when they are talking to each other in private they are saying “why won’t the coach let us forecheck and play the damn game”

  256. ford: I agree that a 1-2-2 is not the most exciting to watch or play. Unfortunately, what players want is not aligned with the long term success of the team.

    I loved Jagr but I’m sure he would have wanted to cherry pick, not play defense, take two minute shifts and change like a dinosaur if he had his way. Not exactly actions conducive to winning games.

    I doubt most sophmore players like Dubinksy are astute enough to manage a team, Naslund maybe given his tenure and success in the league. Not sliming Dubinsky but its true.

    I’m sure Fritsche and Rissmiller would tell you that the team would have been better off dressing them every night but that doesn’t make it so.

  257. Lenny,

    Blah, Blah Blah, Blah, Blah. Keep talking. No one cares what you think. I know I certainly don’t. The more you talk the dumber you look.

    Hey Margaret, you sure have trouble not caring what I think. Why don’t you just admit that you can’t stand anybody disagreeing with you and you can’t ignore me in spite of yourself.

    As far as me looking dumb? Maybe? But I’ve seen you on TV and dumb doesn’t begin to describe you. Keep ignoring me, and give LI Joe some of your special cookies, I’ll supply the kool aid for the both of you.

    You are both a joke.

  258. Vince Lombardi on

    if you think turning players into neutral zone pylons is good for the long term success of the team, you’re dead wrong.

    see Glen Hanlon in Wash

  259. Timbo

    If you think this defensive-first “system” — which allows countless odd man rushes and breakdowns — is aligned with the “long term success” of this team, knock yourself out.

    I happen to think that teams that attack, that force teams to take penalties, that assert its collective will instead of feeling the other team out, that try to crush the desire of the opposition, that engage and celebrate the emotional part of the game tend to win more than teams who play not to lose.

  260. Nice… looks like I missed pretty heated blog discussions today! I think New York Fans are the most knowledgeable fans in any sport. I read few other blogs of other teams just for kicks… and I have to say that the personalities of the NY fans and the way they can hold an argument and put things in perspective really separates them by wide margin from any other fan base out there. Great job guys!
    Now, that being said… I will put my two rubles in and say… YES!
    I’m not gonna chew on things that were chewed on so many times on this blog. Things like the “system”… the inability to recognize and adjust to in game situations… accountability… lines switching… just to name a few… what I do want to point out though is the quote from Naslund following the loss to Boston when he said this: “After they scored we had no choice but to go on the offense, and that’s how we have to play, that’s when we play our best – when we don’t worry so much and just go after teams.” NO CHOICE BUT TO GO ON OFFENSE? Is someone holding them back from playing offense? Interesting… and if in fact someone is holding the team back from playing more offensive type of game… the game which according to Naslund bring out the best out of the team… then u got to be dumb not to recognize what is being said here… This comes straight from the locker… from a player that joined the team this year… makes one really wonder what is really going on behind closed doors…

  261. Ford is right.

    If this team considers itself a “defense first” kind of team, that is nonsense with as many scoring chances we give up. Defense first means you don’t give up chances. Period. But that kind of thinking is consistent with the team not having an identity.

  262. Biggest differences between Stanley Cup and the Super Bowl:

    1). Hockey players are extra-ultra-disciplined in the playoffs; Football players can’t seem to commit enough personal foul penalties, even if it might cost them the championship.

    2). NHL teams share the presentation of the Stanley Cup, from the very moment it is presented — as a team; NFL teams are separated so that only the coach, quarterback and MVP get to celebrate the trophy, leaving teammates down below the podium, left out.

  263. Carp – looks like rangers recalled anisimov. can you find out if they plan on playing him – is someone hurt, voros or dawes out or what?


  264. Feel free to keep on chewing on this topic all night long.

    I thought tomorrow we’d get to something a lot more positive, and hopefully you guys and gals will bring the same passion: Adam Graves.

    I spoke with Adam tonight and I’m working on a column tomorrow about his upbringing and how he became the person he is. I’ll post in the late morning, and then I’m heading to NYC for Adam’s press conference, where Messier, Leetch, Richter and some other guys from that era will be.

    But I do want to say that I am really impressed with what I’ve seen the first few days on this blog. Great arguments, seriously. It’s good to disagree. That’s part of sports, and most of you guys can really bring it. Good stuff. It shows you care, on both sides.

  265. Jesus Lord, for the billionth time, this is not a sound defensive hockey team! If it were, posters who defend the 1-2-2 would have a case. But the scoring chances against are the kind you get with a team that puts defense last!! HOW COME RENNEY FANS CANNOT UNDERSTAND THIS SIMPLE REALITY??

  266. LI Joe, where are you getting that info on Anisimov? Rangers aren’t announcing anything yet … but I could be a bit behind, what with the football game, the blog and all.

  267. red – don’t assume that a no vote on the renney being solely responsible for the rangers dire circumstances is a vote for renney. i voted no but only because i feel a lot of the blame is ALSO on sather (redden signing) and dolan (organizational mindset). there are actually very few pro renney people from what i see

  268. winning the stanley cup is much much harder the nthe superbowl.

    you may possibly play 28 games…

    why trade Dawes? The guy is 23, I do not understand all the hate for the young guys.. None of them are Ovechkin they never were expected to be…..

    If they sit Prucha for AA they deserve to trade Prucha he deserves better.

    Sit VOros or Orr or RIco Fata Sjostrom….

  269. Vince Lombardi on

    Anisimov has to learn how to do the neutral zone polka, Renney style, before he can put in a Ranger shift

  270. They probably brought AA up to verify his age …plus Kalinin is injured…AA will replace him during practice w/o seeing any playing time… u know… the usual bull

  271. ford: Fair enough. I made no mention of systems or how I think the team should be coached. What I did point out is that your assertion that Dubinksy and Naslund want to play differently based on their quotes isn’t very strong once read and that what players want doesn’t always correlate with regular season wins or playoff success, which you didn’t address.

    You did manage to espouse your views on what I thought, dismissed my assumed position, and threw out a standard diatribe on what you think leads to wins. Kudos on that I guess.

  272. Hey Lenny,

    Guess we’ll never see you on TV because you’re a coward. You would rather take shots at people from behind one of the number of names you use to flame on several different websites, most of which you’ve been kicked off.

    I could care less what you think. Go crawl back under your rock.

  273. Margaret, if you cared less what I think you wouldn’t take the bait but you do. The rock is for you my dear.

    It’s more fun with you knowing who I am all the time. Using an alias would spoil the fun. Call me anything you want, I got your goat pretty good sister, haven’t I.

    No need for me to respond in kind with the name calling, I’ll leave that to you since you are so adept at it.

    Have a great evening and go hold Renney’s hand …for starters.

  274. I agree with you for the most part. I like Renny he needs to stay. If you cant score goals,you cant win. Leave Tom where he is. Bench Gomez and maybe that would spark him, and please let Nicky play with Naslund, creativity meets skill.

  275. When you say that Renney has “forgotten more hockey”…etc.
    this becomes simply a position statement without anything to back it up.

    If indeed he is such a paragon of this position, then pray tell, how is it that his style is so consistenlty overcome?

    The sole reason for their current standing is the magnificence of one man – the goal tender. This is a team that continues to make the same mistakes technically, night after night, season after season. They bring in cast offs, with the hope of resurrecting whatever skill level that they once had, and we have yet to see evidence of that working out.

    He is wedded to the theory that a team can “defend” it’s way to the cup. Not only is this ridiculous in this fast paced era of fire wagon hockey – it’s boring to watch.

    I still go back to that 1st period of a game between Canes and Leafs a week or so ago which was wonderful end to end full press rushes by each team, terrific goaltending both ends, and no whistles to speak of. Breathtaking how this game looks when played aggressively.

    You may well believe him to be a wonderful coach ( possibly largely “misunderstood” by the unwashed masses), but where is the evidence?

    You couched the question improperly to begin with – you made the error of asking whether he was “solely” responsible for the team’s problems, and of course this is a false premise to begin with. NO ONE is “solely” reponsible. So it was necessary for me to answer in the negative. But this does not mean that he is not “largely” responsible. The players themselves have a lot to answer for in this regard, and along with of course, their illustrious GM.

    I for one will be surprised if they make it through the first round of playoffs ( if, of course, they make it THAT far.)

  276. I’m die hard, but thank god I have the hockey package. Sad when Blue Jacket games have more entertainment value than NYR.

  277. I couldn’t agree with you more Rick. I’m tired of all the Renny bashers. Yes, there are somethings that are his fault, as you have pointed out, but there is a lot that is not his fault. And yes, it could be a lot worse.

  278. Well Carp if your plan is to be just-another-fan on this blog and use it as your own personal sounding board than I might as well venture over hfboards and read the same ole crap there.


    It’s not 1994 anymore either.

  279. Lots to digest here. Overall, I share a similar perspective. Particularly about a power play point man and the lack of a multiple frontline defensemen. I think both of these things are overdue at really being examined and a solution found.

  280. Well I agree with watch you sat about Renney, problem with Renney is Sather didn’t help this summer with his signings Redden Ha should have signed Streit instead Rosival spent too much money on him! Why spend a mil on Voros and Rismiller and not Shanny why take away a scorer on the PP. Renney yes is a good coach but doesn’t recognize the talent he has aka Cullen remember, him not playing Prucha proves it,he can’t coach veterans either.Dawes keeps getting freebies in the line up, you think if Kennean was here Prucha wouldn’t play the kid draws penalties, which is the other major problem who takes care of the PP cause they suck no system at all. Betts should be 3rd line not 4th hek the whole 4th line should be moved up. What happened to the Gomez,Drury Naslund line they were good together, The way the NHL is now its all about PP. Thank God they didnt give Gomez the C he’s too much of a kid, How do you have the Captain on the 2nd line to be honest Duby should have stayed 1st line center. Plan and simple Renney killed Prucha from a 30 goal scorer to a no scorer Duby is lost out there with Zherdev, Wake up Renney you have talent just learn how to use it!!!!!!!!!

  281. I think the most important thing I can say about Tom Renney is that he does not make the sum greater than the parts. In comparison, I’d say look at Brent Sutter. I belive Sutter has a less talented roster than the Rangers, but he has the Devils playing so that the team’s ability outweighs the ability of the individual players. Plus, Sutter is doing it playing a more exciting, offensive brand of hockey. Think about that: the Devils play more exciting hockey than the Rangers do right now. This is not a complete indictment of Renney, the guy has done a respectable job; he is very frustrating, but I can’t argue with three straight playoff appearances. However, the fact is that at some point it’s take the shit or get off the pot and unless Renney miraculously leads these Rangers to the finals I think he out to get off the pot.

  282. extremely anonymous on

    When you listen to Renney or Pearn in interviews they make sense in their analysis. The final product doesn’t match the analysis though. If you can’t get your players to implement your plan (ie. aggresive forecheck, traffic in front, more shots on the powerplay, playing with a little grit), who is at fault?

  283. LOL is about all I can say here. Nothing better than a textbook coach you say? Gimme a break, I’d rather give Ted Nolan a shot then to watch this mediocrity any longer.

    When your coach would rather dress Voros, rather than Prucha, shows us he knows NOTHING about winning. Keep drinking the Kool-aid.

  284. Anthony (Abev) on

    Well put, Rick. Being positive about the Rangers creates quite a stir. :) Remember, *real* Ranger fans are over-the-top critical about their team. It somehow makes them more credible.

  285. It is painful to watch game after game of sloppy plays, defensive lapses and a total inability to score, let alone get a shot near the goal. While Renney makes some questionable decisions and MUST hold the players (other than Prucha) more accountable, he can only play with the deck of cards he’s been given. Sather is the number one guy who should be fired. Every team we lose to has rising star, youth talent. Our young players never achieve that star level and the veterans are stiffs. We have a bunch of at best 2nd line players, paid the big bucks with LONG contracts. What a mess, that is not so easy to clean up — there’s no free money to do anything about it. Sather should go. BRING ON MESSIER!

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