My buddy Muck


OK, I don’t remember the actual question yesterday, but somebody asked me about my relationship with Muckler … and also somebody accused me of being a bit too cozy with Rangers coaches.

So here’s my favorite Muckler story: After I left the beat in 2002, Muck had long been gone and some idiot actually hired him to be GM of the Ottawa Senators.

Anyway, Andrew Gross had taken my place as the Rangers beat writer, and he made his first trip to Ottawa, where he ran into Muck at the morning skate. Andrew thought it would be good to get to know all the hockey people he could, so he approached Muck.

AG: “Hi, I’m Andrew Gross of The Journal News. I replaced Rick Carpiniello on the Rangers beat.”

JM: “What, did he die?”

AG: “No, he got promoted.”

JM: “Oh, that’s too bad.”

With that the worst coach in recent Rangers history turned his back on Andrew and walked away.


AFTERNOON UPDATE: Everybody skated today, including Callahan and your favorite free-agent defenseman from Ottawa. And the new kid, Reitz. Doesn’t appear he’s going to play in Boston. But they like his toughness. I don’t know if he can skate or handle the puck well enough to be a regular. We’ll see.


AND ANOTHER THING: Congratulations to Doc Emrick, who will be honored by the Devils tonight after going into the Hockey Hall of Fame. Man, we’re awfully lucky around here to have two fabulous hockey play-by-play guys like Doc and the super pro Sam Rosen just six miles apart.

About Author


  1. doodie machetto on

    Carp, you’re having a great first day back on the job. Definitely more Mess ’91 than Mess ’01.

    I hated Muckler. Renney is the first decent coach we’ve had since Campbell. But Renney has clearly maxed out on what he is capable of doing with these players and it’s time to clean house. Maybe keep Pelino, but Pearn and Renney have to go.

    We should try and coax Pat Quinn from his scouting gig in NJ.

  2. Great stuff Carp. I’m a Ranger fan from Ottawa with a soft side for the Sens so I’ve had no shortage of Muckler nightmares. Kinda similar to how Redden won’t stop haunting me.

  3. I agree to Doodie. If Renney held ALL players on this team even a little accountable, I think we would see better results on the ice. All of these players should be treated equally, and if that means getting benched, they get bench.

  4. So I come back for the first time since Wednesday’s disaster to the sad news that Sam is gone! So much for not wanting to read the negative comments and feel bad about the Rangers. His new job sounds great, but I don’t think it can compare to the excitement of the Rangers’ ups and downs. It looks like Carp, at least for now, will be reading the comments more like Sam used to last season, so maybe we should start with a clean slate and keep it civil there so he actually *wants* to read the comments.

    Why would the Wild want to trade someone for Fritsche when they could have had him for nothing just a couple of days ago? It sounds like we actually have a seventh defenseman now. It seems like Sather has found a trading partner for minor deals in Risebrough. It looks like it fit a healthy scratch need for both teams.

    P.S. Time to update “about the authors” on the right side.

  5. “But Renney has clearly maxed out on what he is capable of doing with these players and it’s time to clean house.”

    Doodie – I know several people have this same feeling, I just never see anyone quantify it.

    The team is in a better position this year than last? If it were the opposite, there’s a case for “being maxed out”. But what we have right now is a team that IMPROVED upon last season…thus far. More goals scored is what everyone wanted, and we have that to this point.

    The being “maxed out” thing just doesn’t have ANY supporting facts. There’s no trophy for leading after 45 games. Another 2nd round exit…my thoughts may shift.

    By those standards Lindy Ruff has been maxed out for more than 8 seasons!

  6. I agree with both of you. Kind of a hybrid agreement. I do think we are better than last year. But, this team is consistently inconsistent. And I can live with maybe 1 bed shitting a year, maybe 2. But we are good for a few a year. It just should not happen. A team should not be as easily rattled as we are at times.

  7. Spider, first, thanks. Second, I suspect the Wild didn’t just claim Fritsche because they wanted to get rid of the other guy as bad as the Rangers wanted to lose Fritsche.

    Whatever you think of Renney, and we will get to that soon, it’s hard to judge him when he has a roster of two barely first-line centers and a whole bunch of second-, third- and fourth-line forwards, plus one top defense future star and a gaggle of No. 4, 5 and 6 defensemen. To that end, he has almost no choice to coach “boring.”

    But if you tell me he’s going and Tortorella is coming, I’ll be OK with that.

  8. I’m new to these boards, but my fustration with the Rangers is becoming overbearing. My 9 year old son sometimes watches hockey with me, but I’m so disgusted with the current team, that I just can’t stomach it most nights. Beer Me “HERE IS THE REASON RENNEY MUST GO” he has taken this team and is utilizing Devils hockey with a group of players not suited for that style. It really is that simple. Sure they got better but when you slow the game, and turn it into the most boring sport on ice, every team will get better. Jagr was not asked to come back because Renney knew Jagr had more pull in his locker room then he did. The Ranger may not have finished great season when Jagr was here but they were entertaining, and most of all OFFENSIVE. (not as in ugly like they are now) If I had money I would bet that if the Rangers brought in a coach (like Tortorella I’ll say why in a second) he could take this same team, and turn them into a top flight team. Maybe not cup contenders yet but definetly better then they are. The reason why I say Tortorella is because he plays up tempo aggresive hockey. Pick your own coach, but with the team and the way they are constructed this is the most boring, and down right over rated Rangers team. Which of course leads us to Sather. Does any of the Dolan’s realize Sather is a pompous ass! I have read that their are teams that won’t even talk to him because they think he is such a jerk. Hey Dolan family wake up!!! Thanks for listening I’m home all day retired and looking for something to do so I’ll answer all questions and comments as quickly as possible. Just kidding, but I love this site already and I hope to talk to everyone a lot. I hope my first post wasn’t to offensive.

  9. Carp, funny you mentioned Totorella. Was it you who mentioned in your book that Glen Sather didn’t even consider Tortorella for a coaching job when he picked his buddy Ron Lowe to coach? In fact didn’t Slats not even know Tortorella’s first name?

  10. The Wild didn’t claim him because it has something to do with salary transfer via trade vs. waivers. By trading him, he gets rid of Reitz’s salary asap… that or Slats got a phone call shortly after placing him on waivers saying “hey we need to get rid of Reitz”.

  11. Slats called him “Tortorelli,” and never interviewed him, even though he was the interim coach after the great Muck got himself and Neil Smith fired at the end of the season. He could have been great here.
    We’re working on the sideboard. But it’s one thing at a time, and right now it’s more important to talk to you guys, no? Besides, we don’t mind having Sam’s picture up there for a while as a tribute to his greatness.

  12. Rick:

    About Renney. Not to be a negative Nancy, but I’d also like to get to how effective his coaching style is regarding accountability. He’s obviously getting a lot out of his younger players or the Rangers wouldn’t be in 2nd place. Also credit to Henrik and Vally.

    But, say, benching Z or Korpikoski for the rest of the game for one miscue while letting Gomez (who has been playing better lately), Redden and the other guys who already got their checks get away with murder. It seems to work at times (a la Z scoring in the shootout and refusing to be noticed as a star which I LOVED!) but IDK if I like this as the big $ boys seem to SLACK.

    And was it Renney’s decision to give Redden the A? A guy that’s done nothing for the team automatically gets an A? This looks like hindsight bias but I was wondering why you’d just give a guy an A before even playing a game. It’s not like he’s Messier or anything.

    Newayss, off to lunch, thanks for chiming in on the blog!

  13. If I were in charge:

    Fire Renney.
    Hire Tortorella.
    Trade Prucha.
    Trade Dawes.
    Go to Italian restaurant because you’re craving tortellini for some odd reason.
    Bench Redden indefinitely.
    Bench Kalinin for 5 games.
    Bench Drury or Gomez for 3 games.
    Call up AA.
    Call up Parenteau.
    Call up Sanguinetti.
    Put Reitz in the lineup.
    Bench Lundqvist for those 4 softies and play Vally.
    Enforce one sui-sprint per defensive lapse/turn over.
    Yell at the refs and throw stuff on the ice.

  14. Oops.. forgot the additions and alternatives:

    Acquire Neil for Prucha/Dawes/picks/whatever and leave Parenteau in minors (although I really want to see him play ONE f’n NHL game for us).
    Scratch Orr.
    Call up someone from Hartford to play on 4th for a few games (Moore?).

  15. Hey Zhervalev I’m not a huge Prucha fan but if the team isn’t scoring goals (especially on the PP) should we consider him. Is Dawes game that much better that he gets to play over Prucha ever night. We have a plethera of 3rd and 4th line players and a lack of goal scoring. Shouldn’t Renney at least let the kid play for a couple of weeks.

  16. Hey Carp,

    Why don’t your colleagues take more of a stand with Sather, and start demanding some more interview time? Surely the league must have some rules stating that he has to talk with the media on occasion.

  17. Here is the thing though. You have to be a jerk sometimes as a coach. You can’t be a pushover all of the time, but you have to go about it in a certain way. You have to let the players know that they are going to be held accountable, and you have to do it from day 1. You can’t just pick and choose when you are going to do it (remember what happened with Melrose in the beginning of the year.)

  18. Unless this team really is run by Sather. Sometimes, Renney looks like he wants to say more, or do more, but just can’t. And who the hell would want a head coaching job if you can’t really be the head coach?

  19. I like Prucha’s heart, but he’s too small… as is Dawes. We need a guy like Neil.. it’s not realistic to say “let’s trade Prucha/Dawes/1st for top 3 winger”.

  20. You know what the kicker is!!! None of what anyone is saying is rocket science but why does everyone else see it but not Ranger managment.

  21. Kovalev: Def fire Pearn first. And have someone breathing down Renney’s neck. Maybe then he’d hold the veterans accountable being that he knew his job was on the line. How sweet would that be?

  22. Zhervalev I don’t have a problem trading him, and I like Neil but if we are going to go with what we got, my mind is boggled, as to why we have Voros, Dawes, amongst others out there every night. That is what I think people are trying to get across about Renney. He says the right thing but he doesn’t do the right things or make the right decisions.

  23. Great story, Carp, except Ron Low and Bryan Trottier were much worse than Muck. I heard that not only has Trottier never been able to get another coaching gig but that he’s only even allowed into the Nassau Coliseum.

  24. I’m no where near the hockey mind that Renney is but everyone from the blue seats down questions what the heck he is doing. Besides the fact that he has taken an exciting Jagr team and turned them into a Devils team with high priced players.

  25. These are all nice stories, but Sam (I know you said you’re not here to try to BE Sam, but this has been my most reliable source of inside information for the past few seasons)… Sam use was ON TOP of stories. As soon as a deal was done, as soon as there was a line change to report… anything and EVERY thing was here….


  26. And Low was a little better than Muckler in that he wasn’t destructive to the organization, he knew the names of his players, he didn’t rip apart every rookie as worthless, or call some of his players “garbage” (Eric Cairns), didn’t try to get his boss fired, didn’t refuse to play Graves on the power play, didn’t do some assinine thing like putting Leetch at forward against Pavel Bure without practicing it and then getting shutout and beaten on a goal by Bure without Leetch on the ice.
    Trottier, he might have been worse, but he didn’t do as much harm. And he was out quickly.

  27. Interestingly enough, I ran a poll on my site about whether Renney should be replaced, and it’s still about 60/40 ‘No’.

    I’m with everyone here that he has run his course, and it’s time for a change. He will be remembered as a good coach who brought us back to respectability.

    I just want to hear a counterargument as to why Renney should stay, other than his soon to be 4th straight postseason trip.

  28. Carp,
    Welcome back and thanks for being so active in posting and commenting already. Unfortunately for now, we’re still stuck with Sather, but what’s the latest on Messier? I’ve been reading a bunch recently that he really wants to get back into hockey in some capacity with the Rangers. How many more years does Sather have on his contract?


    Guys, seriously, you don’t want Chris Neil on your team. I’m from Ottawa so I watch him game in and game out, or at least I watch the Sens play and actually notice him on the ice once every 4 or 5 games. The guys is invisible, except when he makes terrible giveaways or takes Hollweg-like penalties. He may rack up a lot of hits every now and then, but they’re never crushing, momentum changing hits. The only goals he scores tip in off his shin pads. I would NEVER trade Prucha, or Dawes, or even freakin Erik Reitz for Chris Neil. I’m not exagerating. This guy cares more about picking up chicks in bars than being a good hockey player, although I think he got married this year. Chris Neil is a poor man’s Aaron Voros, but smaller and with less of a scoring touch…make that no scoring touch. We already took in Ottawa’s worst player from last year in Redden, let’s not try to get their worst player this year.

  30. I’m with you Pierre on Neil; my girl is a big Ottawa fan…neil has also had a few big “non-fights” when the situation was screaming out for him to do it…

  31. Chris Neil would be perfect then. He’s another 3rd or 4th line player who Renney wouldn’t hold accountable for making stupid plays or whatever.

  32. If he’s not going to play Prucha and he’s going to keep Voros Dawes and others who are completely invisible maybe Neil would fit better.

  33. Geez, seeing Trottier’s name reminded me of how horrible Sather has been. Remember how long it took him to hire a coach, then he comes up with Trottier because he was blown away by his hand written application? Sather has had enough time already. If Renney goes after the season, it’s time to get rid of Sather. Of course, we all know that the boy wonder, dolan, will never do it.

    Can we dig up “the Fog” to coach again?

  34. I was speaking with a friend today, and we figured that the Rangers gave up about 30 goals from Jagr (being conservative) 20 goals from Shannahan, 15 goals from Straka, and I know I’m forgetting someone, but that’s 65 goals right there. Who did we get to replace those goals??

  35. Cynar, nice to see some well thought out and well written statements,now that being said here`s my view— Renney makes me want to PUKE,to hear his double talk on post game interviews reminds me of the last time I was doing a job in a building for the mentally challenged. And by that I mean he speaks well but its all xxxx.This was the year the Rangers got younger and faster LOL this team plays one step above a corpse.Now you can attribute the bad d to Redden( who Pearn vouched for ) and Kalinin but how do you take players like Z who are imaginative and turn them into something they`re not. Mess had Renney run out of Vancouver for the very reason most people hate watching the team now HIS SYSTEM xxx. Now there are Renney droolers who say we are a much better team YEA THAN WHAT !!!! When you have Pamela Anderson in bed you dont ask her to wear flannel pjs. Renney is all flannel and we need some leather and lace here.

  36. Chris Neil forgot what got him into the NHL. Good call by Pierre on the Voros comparison. The last thing the Rangers need to do is trade guys who have scoring ability (i.e. Dawes and Prucha) for the likes o f player who isn’t a scorer (Neil). I have no problem with trading those players, just make sure you bring back some scoring or a defenseman who can replace Kalinin.

  37. I’m guessing Sather was hoping to get 30 from Zherdev, 10 from Redden, 10 from Voros, 10 from Fritsche, 10 from Rissmiller, and more production from Dubi, Cally, Dawes and Prucha. Problem is, Redden is terrible, and we can only dress 12 forwards a night. I think the kids have been good, although Dubi and Voros really got our hopes up after the first ten games.

  38. I like Dubinsky, but let’s not forget he was playing with probably a top 10 player in the NHL. Plus we went from and offensive system to what Renney has always wanted a locker room full of “yes men” who play defensive hockey.

  39. Naslund scored 25 30 goals on a Western hockey team who played a western style game. What did they think was going to happen in this system?

  40. Carp & Zhervalev – That makes sense about the trade; from an article I read on the Wild website, the trade only pushes their salary cap up about $50,000, leaving them with $2.5 million in room, which I imagine will be more with Gaborik’s LTIR replacement space. It’s odd that they would trade their seventh defenseman when they are still fighting for a playoff spot, with Foster about a month away from returning from his broken leg. I guess they trust whoever would be their first call-up from the AHL.

  41. Does everyone realize we could (although not likely) have zero or maybe one 20 goal scorer all year on this team. Thats not the players thats the system. Renney has got to go.

  42. Its a funny thing Cynar…I keep hearing the Rangers are a defensive team and that they play a certain style…all I see are odd-man rushes, breakaways, defenseman never getting covered for when they go into attacking zone, and an incredibly poor ability to get the puck out of their own zone…all trademarks of a bad or non-defensive system!!

    in fact the only defense first philosophy I see being carried out ( besides Hank when he’s on) is the “one man in” offensive system…that happened three times after the Pens opened up a 3 goal lead the other night…I guess I draw a distinction between “defense first” and “no offense”…some people dont

  43. Its a funny thing Cynar…I keep hearing the Rangers are a defensive team and that they play a certain style…all I see are odd-man rushes, breakaways, defenseman never getting covered for when they go into attacking zone, and an incredibly poor ability to get the puck out of their own zone…all trademarks of a bad or non-defensive system!!


    exactly…. how can anyone support this coach?

  44. Oh, and to comment on a post above, Pat Burns won’t be coaching. He has lung cancer and is refusing chemo (this is his third time with cancer).

    Sorry for the morbid news.

  45. Kaspar were being told they are a defensive team by Renney. He admits he wants to win 3-2 2-1 or whatever. I’m not saying they are, nor are they any good if in fact they want to call themselves a defensive team. What I believe people are saying is WHAT ARE THE RANGERS? he sits Prucha when we need goals, he doesn’t hold his defensemen acct. for their mistakes. Where are we going? Is it the team? Is it the coach? I think the more people analyze the Rangers the more they realize Renney has a great hockey mind but the system he plays doesn’t work. They were a better team when they opened it up and let Jagr do his thing. The only reason they are better in the standings this year is because they have played about 10 more games then everyone else.

  46. Isn’t there something to be said for consistency here? Consistency in management, players, coaching?

    Ever notice it’s the teams who are constantly changing coaches who are not always competitive? The Devils are the exception, not the rule. The best teams every season hang on to their coaches because when the team is winning and is competitive, why change things?

    I’m 100% on board with Carp. This team HAS to play defensive hockey! There is not enough offense to get into track meets. If you think Ryan Callahan, Nigel Dawes, Petr Prucha, Fredrik Sjostrom et al. are capable of scroing a lot of goal, you are seriously mistaken. These are all good, honest, hard-working hockey players. But there are no Datsyuks, Zetterbergs, even Filppulla’s in that group.

    Gomez, Drury and Dubinsky are all fantastic centers, who belong on 2nd lines.

    I just don’t see how this is “the system” or Renney’s fault. It’s just not.

    If it was “the system”, then why did the 05-06 team score a lot of goals? How about last year’s team down the stretch? When the chemistry finally developed, they were able to score 4 or 5 goals per game.

    This team has inferior personnel in terms of scoring. Look at the statistics. Gomez and Drury were NEVER EVER EVER 100 point guys. Then, the team let go of Jagr, Straka, Shanahan and Avery. By my estimate, that’s somewhere in the neighborhood of 90-110 total goals. They replaced those scorers with Zherdev and Naslund. Even if they both had GREAT years and scored 35 apience, that’s still only 70 goals.

    I knew this in July. Don’t go blaming Renney. The writing was on the wall because of Sather’s stupidity.

  47. Too bad about Burns…I wanted to see him coach again..this has nothing to do with Renney…just always like how Burns looked behind the bench

  48. So then dump Gomez or Drury’s contract because they don’t deserve that money and some team MIGHT be desperate.

    Then you pay for ‘banger’ d-men who actually hit and stay-at-home.. so dump rozsival and redden’s salaries… then use the rest of the money to sign Hossa.

  49. 2005-06 was an abberation for a lot of offensive numbers Rob C…Gomez scored 30, the first season with new rules, teams didnt know how to play dee or even hit…since then end of that season the rangers scoring has gotten worse and worse and worse and worse

  50. Boy, I really wanted to save the Renney argument for later on, after we got warmed up with a couple of games. I’ve been on this job a little more than 24 hours, and with no games to discuss, and this weekend and early next week I want to talk about Graves … but we’ll get full-blown into the coach and his performance after a few games. I promise.

  51. Kaspar, dead on. And what keeps on being laughable is that the chances against are like those that a firewagon, go-for-it offensive powerhouse is willing to give up. Renney can’t figure out how to limit great chances against, all while making sure to limit the Rangers’ offensive surge! Talk about a no win.

    Give him his due — he’s a genius at wringing out nail-biting victories against horrible teams. But put him up against a team with some talent that plays to win and this team has no shot.

  52. As for Sutter and the absolute miserable look he always has on his face and overall body language, maybe that is how you need to look to get through to players. He looks like he eats glass for breakfast and chases it with a box of nails. He just looks so angry all of the time. I am sure nobody on the team questions a thing he says, and are afraid of him.

  53. Off topic post, but I am anxiously awaiting Anisimov and Grachev as much as Sanguinetti and Del Zotto.

    I can’t wait to see them play.

  54. Salary dumps via trades. I know Gomez/Redden (for example) choose x amount of teams they’ll reject trades to, but what if the trade was one sided?

    I’m not saying trade Redden for a 7th rounder, but be creative. There’s also waivers.

    Sather is a horrible GM. Yea he got Carter for Jagr.. big whoop.. that was pre-cap and NY was/is rich.

    We got Zherdev for a decent d-man and sister christian, but Z has disappeared 1/3 of the season (and considering he’s the leading scorer on the team, that says a lot about management and coaching).

    I hate the cap. NY teams are bound to fail because of it.

  55. WD40
    For some reason, cause I’m an idiot, I keep expecting the Rangers to win an easy game one night, and I’m always suprised that the only way they can win is by the skin of their teeth…there has got to be a medical term for what I have…Rangerphobia? Blowout Syndrome? Stressitis?

  56. You can’t just dump a salary to a team in this new era. You have to take on salary to dump a salary, thus eliminating the salary dump concept. If Sather has the balls to waive Redden, then I will take back every negative thing I said about that signing.

    As for Zherdev, he is far and away the most talented player on this team. He’s young (24) and has some of the best hands I have ever seen. Renney has turned him into a solid two way player (one of the few good things Renney has done this year). He’s a little bit of a head case, but that trade was an absolute steal.

  57. Naslund is on pace to put in 25-30 goals, he costs 4 mil/per, and we’re not married to him. He’s the least of our worries, and frankly, living up to expectations very nicely. I would like to see a little more backchecking, but he’s played well and doesn’t cost a fortune.

  58. It’s true he’s young, and he definitely has tons of potential… but.. he’s yet to play a post season game. At least Redden turns into a .5 ppg-ish player then.

    I still hate the signing more than the 08 election results.. well almost.

  59. The Zherdev trade itself may have been a steal, but we’d have been better off never making it IF having Tyutin and Backman here would have precluded the Redden signing.

  60. The replacements for Jagr and Shanny are not the problem really…if you just go by numbers and numbers alone Z and Naz will probably surpass Shanny and Jags…Cally will outscore Straka and Voros may catch Avery

    The problem, numbers wise, is our young “guns” not growing…Dawes and Dubi will be hardpressed to match last years goal totals..and they were supposed to “add to them”…Korpi and Prucha may not combine for ten…is it those young guys not being ready? Are they not good enough? or is it the coaching thats holding them back.. you answer that question…because THATS where the other goals were supposed to come one thought Naz and Z were going to combine for the 100 goals that we let go did they??

  61. I don’t know aboot all of you, but when Nyr plays like retards, i take one look at the Nucks and im all happy. What a mess of a team, Luongo is giving up massive goals, Sundin looks like a zombie, it’s great !! I hoped they would miss the playoffs after signing that greedy fugly loser Sundin, looks like it’s possible.

    But then again i take a look at the Devs who have no Broduer, but have Eliass and Gionta who are supposed to suck these days, actually playing good, and putting up points, along with Parise in the top 5 in goal scoring, and “old man” Shanny playing good hockey, with Clemmensen racking up the wins. Makes me wanna cry. I thought Sutter was a suck ass coach, but all he needed was a year behind his belt, and boom, the Devs are better than ever. I wonder how they’ll be with Martina there. Get Avery NOW, before it’s too late !! The sooner Aves comes back, the sooner Redden accepts a trade.

    Hopefully the Pens win tonight, cant let the Devs go ahead of us by 5 fuggin points, ugh.

  62. I believe the trade came after the Redden signing. I’m unsure.

    I understand people hate the signing of Redden, but I don’t get the intense hatred for Redden himself. He is what we all expected him to be. Can you blame him for taking the $40 million deal? Blame Sather.

    Disclaimer: Rant not aimed at anyone in particular, just a general feeling I get amongst Ranger fans.

  63. We should’ve signed Streit and Rozsival. Wow, the Isles got a steal.

    They still suck, but they’ll get draft-pick-rich when Comrie, Weight and Guerin are shipped off soon.

    Question for EVERYONE here:

    Seeing as how this franchise has been extremely disappointing and predictable (i.e. inconsistent play, early playoff exits), would you rather finish in the middle of the pack (barely making playoffs), or tank a year or two or three for the high draft picks?

  64. Redden for Avery? In a heartbeat! Just think how things could’ve been… Dallas offered Redden 6m/y and Slats just had to give the extra year and 500k/per… UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!

  65. Dave, waiving Redden won’t work. If he is put on waivers, then a team can claim him for half of his salary, we’re on the hook for the other half. Dan Fritsche is minor leaguer, so his name didn’t spark much interest. But Wade Redden certainly will, and you can bet that some team will swoop in and claim him for a 3.25 mil/per cap hit. Redden is a rip off at the mint we’re paying him, but for half of that…bargain by the way defensemen are getting paid lately. So all we do is rid ourselves of 3.25 mil. It will be hard to find a legitimate replacement on D with that little money, especially since we still need to sign Dubinsky and Z.

    It’s really a shame we couldn’t deal through the season with Potter and develop him, and suffer through his growing pains as he gets accustomed to the NHL game like Philly has done with Spisa. We’d have saved 6.5 million cap space and we could make a move for Boumeester. Or if it was absolutely necessary to get a UFA, get Mark Streit, who QB’ed the #1 PP in the league, as opposed to Redden. Sather really did it this time

  66. Yea, I wanted Streit on the Rangers for quite some time, and I knew he was going to be undervalued. Oh well.

    I’d rather see a team that plays its heart out every night. So middle of the pack works for me.

    Brett Hull is not a good GM.

  67. Sather is too proud of a prick and has way too big an ego to do something like that. He will never admit that he made a mistake.

  68. Forget about free agent signings for a moment…and put away the Sather hate for a second…

    You’re building a team and Henrik gets drafted and shows up in 2005-06; he’s great! You follow up in the next few years drafting Sangy, Staal, DelZ and a few other “middle-of the road dee men”…Dubinsky-Dawes-Prucha-Ansimov and Cherapanov are drafted on offense…sounds like a pretty good plan doesn’t it?

    Like I said, forget Redden for a second if you can do it, it sounds like a half-way decent plan to build from the goalie out doesnt it? Drury is gone in three more years, Gomez is still young and in his twenties, you let the old veterans all go….

    i’m just sayin’

  69. Yeah, it’s only re-entry waivers. In other words, if Redden were to be put on waivers, he should NEVER be called back up. If he’s put on waivers, then we don’t pay his salary. It might scare future free agents from signing with us but it’s worth it. It’ll never happen though, Sather wouldn’t admit to having made that big of a blunder.

  70. Half salary claims are for re-entry waivers only. Waiving Redden would only have a positive effect on the payroll.

    Still not going to happen, nor do I want it to happen at this current moment. Let the man play. Stop pinning his salary to his performance.

  71. It is damn hard to be patient isn’t it? Seriously? I want to build a young competitive team, that is consistent. And you are going to have to have some veteran presence and free agent signings. But the signing also have to make sense. And when you look at a few here, they don’t really make sense. You really only needed one of Drury or Gomez, and Redden was a defensive leftover from the supposed TOP FA’s last summer.

  72. The only reason I excessively complain about money versus performance is because the cap is going to go down… we have 9 players.. nine.. NINE tied up for $41m?!

  73. Kaspar,

    I’ve been trying to say that for a while. Sather’s weakness isn’t his plan or his trades, it’s his signings.

    Eliminate the bad contracts, and evaluate his performance on trades and drafts, and he’s done a bang-up job.

  74. I would only tank if we were guarateed players like Ovechkin, or Malkin. I can’t believe some people just won’t make this a managment thing. This is the system, and the players who are suppose to play the system. Renney is playing the wrong system, and Sather couldn’t find a good player if he was standing next to him. Renney is employing a defensive style which does not fit the personnel he has. We can blame Sather, but let’s first play a system the team can work with. WE ARE NOT BIG ENOUGH TO PLAY A DEFENSIVE SHUT DOWN DEVILS HOCKEY TYPE OF GAME!!! That is Renney’s fault. We need to play a up beat up tempo game which is what everyone thought we were going to play. Didn’t they say we wanted to get faster? Why? So we could slow the game down? I don’t know about you guys, but when Jagr, and company weren’t signed and they talked about younger and faster I was thinking more like Buffalo’s team, then what we have now. Don’t look for a cure all from Sather it ain’t going to happen. We need a system that fits quick and aggressive play, not this crap.

  75. Zhervalev,

    The cap isn’t the players fault, it’s the GM’s fault. Complain away, but complain about the right things.

  76. I blame GM’s and agents. I also blame Bettman. This league needs no more than 24 teams… or hell.. 20. You won’t need a cap when non-Kansas-bound teams can actually support their own franchise.

  77. Contraction is impossible. Not virtually impossible or improbable, but impossible.

    And yes, Bettman single handedly ruined the game.

  78. If I had the all the empty seats I have seen around the league over the last two weeks of NHL action ( in Atlanta, Miami, Anahiem, Carolina,Phoenix…and yikes!!even Dallas)….. I’d be half-way to building a new arena…and all the chairs would be different colors!

  79. Uhh Rick…are you going to elaborate WHY Muckler hoped you were dead?

    Were you simply critical of his job performance?

  80. “So your arena would resemble Shea?”
    Dave 1-30-09

    Dave… actually I was thinking of a romphouse I used to visit in Estonia but…yeah sure it will look like Shea too:)

  81. ZHERV

    Id love to tank just to get some potential superstars, but you never know, Slats could pick the bust of the draft, even with the 1st overall pick. If Nyr had the pick in 04, or 05 which ever Crosby was in, he’d probably pick Bobby Ryan, which these days isn’t a bad thing cause the kid looks like the real deal finally, but still, it’s Sid Crybaby, even though he’s a faggy whiner, he’s still damn good.

    I hate Slats !

  82. doodie machetto on

    Carp, why so against Quinn? He did a great job with the Canadian juniors, plus, having coached them, would be able to be very insightful come the draft.

    Beer, to answer your question about the maxed out, it’s not in terms of positioning so much as quality. This year, the team is in a better position than last year, yes. But do you think that the players on this team can really do any better than they have done? And they haven’t exactly been winning games in convincing fashion. And we all know about the inflated shootout record.

    Look at last year’s team and the team the year before. Both years, the team wasn’t doing as well at this point in this season, but you felt it was only a matter of time before they kicked it into another gear. Best example is last year with Jagr. He was crap all season but we knew he was better than that. Sure enough, he turned it on and carried the team into the playoffs and was the only skater who showed up for the first 4 games of the Pens series.

    That team was underperforming. We KNEW they could and should be better. This team is the opposite. This team is closer to 3 years ago, coming out of the lockout. A team that was in a good position at this point in the season, but at any point you knew they could lose 5 games in a row.

    And that’s how I feel about this year’s team. I have no confidence in them because I see how they win by the skin of their teeth. Now, that’s a bit of a false comparison though since that team (05-06) was playing WELL over expectations (and eventually it did all come crashing down), whereas this team has shown that it is just an above average hockey club. But that’s the problem. That’s all this team is: an above average club, nothing more.

  83. beer, the powerplay has been a joke for three years in a row. The last time it was good was when prucha was play with jagr. So we may have more points this year than last year, but we are just not built to play playoff hockey. you have to be able to score on the pp in the playoffs and renney hasn’t fixed that problem in three years. i mean we have a worse pp than the isles, so clearly it’s not all about talent on the ice. So id fire him for the pp over the last three years, the inability to get his players to play a full 60 minutes and his absolute failure to hold any veterans accountable (I put this last b.c Sather may not let him do this). Sather built an odd mix of players, but I still say renney is not getting the most out of them

    also if someone claimed redden on reentry waivers im pretty sure we would only have to pay half his salary for the rest of the year, which id do in a heartbeat. actually even if we had to pay half his salary for the next 5 years thatd be better than paying this clown 6 million

  84. Noah, because I wrote often about what a bad job he’d done, and how he was ruining not only the team on the ice, but the franchise.
    Here is part of a post I put up in the comments earlier, when somebody suggested Ron Low was worse than Muckler:

    “Low was a little better than Muckler in that he wasn’t destructive to the organization, he knew the names of his players, he didn’t rip apart every rookie as worthless, or call some of his players “garbage” (Eric Cairns), didn’t try to get his boss fired, didn’t refuse to play Graves on the power play, didn’t do some assinine thing like putting Leetch at forward against Pavel Bure without practicing it and then getting shutout and beaten on a goal by Bure without Leetch on the ice.
    Trottier, he might have been worse, but he didn’t do as much harm. And he was out quickly.”

    That’s why Muck wishes me dead. But I’m still alive.

  85. ….and I dont understand all the people who think waiving an overpaid/half asleep/underperforming vet like Redden would cause free agents to not come here?

    Play good, give it your all, you play in NHL you get $6M a year

    Play bad, half-asleep hockey you play AHL hockey and get $6M a year

    You think Eric Staal is going to think ‘Oh no! I’m not going there I may score 40 goals, 100 points and get sent to Hartford?????…

  86. Doodie, I just think Quinn is the ultimate recycled old crusty coach who has done a bad job at a few different stops. I think you guys would, by and large, wish you had Renney back within a month.

    Another reminder to all: Keep it clean. I will edit or delete you if you use vulgarities.

  87. doodie machetto on

    Nasty, the thing with Gomez and Drury is that we only needed one if we were bringing back Nylander. Without Nylander, we needed two centers. Since Nylander was looking for 5 million per for 4 years, they decided what was another 2 million for another year or 3 (depending on whether Gomez or Drury was intended as Nylander’s replacement).

    Those signings aren’t the ones that kill me. The Redden and Rozsival signings are truly baffling. Forget about how they have performed. Even if they were playing up to their money amounts, the team has drafted TWO offensive defensemen in the first round over the past 3 years, including one this year! WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU LOCK UP THE OFFENSIVE DEFENSMEN SPOTS FOR 5 AND 6 YEARS (not to mention the cap money) IF YOU HAD TWO BLUE CHIP OFFENSIVE DEFENSEMEN IN YOUR SYSTEM!?!?

    Meanwhile, count the number of talented wingers, especially those that can score, in our system. Give them Cherepanov since at the time he was still alive and OK. Two. Cherepanov and Grachev. And Grachev was still a bit of an X factor at that point!

    There is no plan for this team, no salary structure, no future as long as Glen Sather is running it.

  88. Hey Rick

    What do you think of this theory?

    Does Sather know something about a new buyout option in the future? Either after current CBA or some other financial crisis scenario in the current one?

    The NYR used to spend $70M a problem
    they are one of those teams where burying $6-7 million in mistakes in the AHL or anywhere else wouldn’t effect…Phoenix and Atlanta cant do that

    It would explain his longterm signings in a way other than senility and it would also expalin all the really long contracts handed out all over the league

  89. Good point Kaspar. Guys like Eric Staal wouldn’t be scared off by it…only guys who know they’re asking for more than they’re worth, so that might just be a good thing

  90. doodie machetto on

    Kaspar, technically he can do that right now. All he would have to do is waive Redden, send him to Hartford, and his 6 million goes POOF. Redden might actually clear waivers due to his insane contract.

    But even if he doesn’t, he can just put him there to start the season next year. I don’t think you have to waive a player in order for them to start the season in the minors.

    I could be wrong about that though.

  91. also sather had to know bouwmeester and komisarek were likely heading to be ufas in the following season. sure u cant count on both not being signed, but all signs pointed to bouwemeester wanting out of fla, i actually think he’s a young redden in that he’s a lot better when he has a good partner like redden was when chara was on the sens.

    sather is a moron, lets leave mucks alone he is gone, not our problem anymore…and we have plenty of our own

  92. Guys, thanks for clearing up the waivers issue with the CBA. Is it possible to bury Redden in the AHL, then buy his lazy ass out after the season? I’d imagine at least a large portion of his contract is guaranteed, but if we can rid ourselves of him it’d be worth the money.

    We’re gonna need to drop somebody soon. There is no way we can keep the players we have and sign everyone. Valiquette should reup, as should Betts. Dubi, Z and Prucha all need contracts too. If we’re not going to sign someone, now is the time to deal them

  93. Not sure how that CBA works re: releasing a player with a guaranteed contract and how it affects the cap … but it will NEVER happen. The GM’s not going to admit a mistake like that.

  94. Rick,

    The waived player could pull a Vrbata and go to Russia, or just play in the AHL with no cap hit (meaning that the salary is cleared).

    It’s re-entry waivers where teams can do the half-salary steal.

    But you’re right, no one will admit that mistake, unless it’s the final year of the deal (a la Martin Gerber)

  95. Dave January 30th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
    Off topic post, but I am anxiously awaiting Anisimov and Grachev as much as Sanguinetti and Del Zotto.
    I can’t wait to see them play.

    Dave, you and million other Rangers fans… let’s hope these players get to see the lights of MSG

  96. CCCP.

    They should be coming up very soon, I’m hoping Anisimov sticks next year and Grachev following him in 2010-2011. This team is stacked at center.

    I like these guys so much I did my first prospect profiles on them lol.

  97. Regarding Quinn’s success at the WJC…my grandmother could have coached that team they were so stacked.

  98. a new gm would have no problem sending redden to the ahl. you think someone like burke would let his team suffer like that. sather has no cred around the league as it is, so in reality he has nothing to lose….but of course we know it wont happen

  99. Welcome Carp. Read you from when you first started covering the Rangers. Hope your return doesn’t mean that Muckler and the like aren’t thinking of a Ranger comeback.

    Sam, enjoyed the ride with you. I don’t care for or follow golf, so I may never read you, but I wish you Good Luck and have fun. Now, if you write about Miniature Golf and that challenging windmill hole, you might just hook me.

  100. zherv re your 1:38 not happening. drury has no trade. most of others contracts make them untradeable. and even if somehow rozy goes back to europe or something there would still be no room for hossa. 1st cap coming down and 2nd we have our own youth to sign in next couple of yrs especially staal.

  101. So, Dave, the Rangers could release Redden (they would have to buy him out, right?) and that salary comes right off the cap books? That’s hard for me to believe. I think there’d be a lot more buyouts if that was the case. I don’t doubt you, I just need time to reaquaint myself with the post-lockout CBA.

    Thanks, Mike. I don’t think those guys are coming back, but don’t be surprised to see some form of the Return of Mess in the future.

  102. Rick,

    Are we talking about waiving or an out-right release? In the waiving case, then he comes off the books. For the out right release, then there’s a buyout and I believe half of his salary counts against the cap for the life of the contract.

  103. orr – 1:56 avery cares more about fashion than he does hockey. and his teammates hate him. why is it the best gm in the league holland of detroit said no way when asked about sean. but you know better than him?

  104. joe in de – re your 2:01. with the season he is having dubi won’t break the bank. no room for bowmeister as we have our own youth to sign even if somehow rozy goes back to europe.

  105. Dubi or not Dubi January 29th, 2009 at 7:52 pm

    “I’m very excited to have Rick back! Not to date him, but I remember reading his articles as a kid”


    was that on parchment or stone tablets?

  106. To cheer myself up, I looked at the Piles’ cap situation.. that DP contract? AHAHAHAH! The Yashin buyout is on their books through the 2014-2015 season! BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

  107. zherv – re your 2:10 and 1:38. one contradicts the other. you say you are concerned about our cap situation in one and rightfully so (although i think rozy will go back to europe like kaspar did). and in the other you want hossa.

    what clear up cap space in a decreasing cap so you can sign more long term deals you’ll regret? if they clear the cap space it has to be for our own players forget signing free agents – period.

  108. Redden and Rozi to Avangard Omsk for Jagr at league minimum…and we’ll take their coach Flemming off their hands to replace Pearn…he’s another Renney croney

  109. “zherv – re your 2:10 and 1:38. one contradicts the other. you say you are concerned about our cap situation in one and rightfully so (although i think rozy will go back to europe like kaspar did). and in the other you want hossa.”

    It’s wishful thinking. I know those contracts are unmoveable, but I’m basically saying I’d rather have Hossa under a monster contract than any combination of Drury, Gomez, Redden and Rozsival.

  110. zherv and dave – yes 24 teams is a great number. contraction is unlikely but if the economy really tanks contraction is not impossible. of course if economy really tanks how many teams will be the least of our problems.

  111. doodie machetto on

    If you buyout a player half of their remaining salary counts against your cap for double the term. Unless that player is over a certain age (35 I think), then it’s only a third.

    So unless you want 3.25 million on our books for the next 10 years, better to just stick out the next 5 with Redden.

    Either that or bury him in the minors.

  112. doodie machetto on

    I’d be OK with 24 teams but the playoffs would have to be revamped. 2/3s of the league can’t make the playoffs.

  113. “Beer Me “HERE IS THE REASON RENNEY MUST GO” he has taken this team and is utilizing Devils hockey with a group of players not suited for that style.”

    Wrong, wrong, wrong. Slats knew DAMN WELL what kind of system was in place. Wanna blame someone, it’s slats for bringing those players in.

  114. “So unless you want 3.25 million on our books for the next 10 years, better to just stick out the next 5 with Redden.
    Doodie 1-30-09

    I think I remember the Islanders were on the hook for like ten years at $2.50M for buying out the last 5 yrs of Yashin’s contract last season

  115. pete 2:41 – 1/2 salary would be for the rest of his contract not just this yr. if they went that route they would be better off leaving redden in minors with no cap hit. even though that would kill free agents coming here at least the cap would be better under control.

  116. doodie machetto on

    I think I’d be willing to give Teddy Nolan a shot as coach. He actually made the Isles competitive with their terrible roster.

    Funny that I bring him up after a day talking about Muckler.

  117. kaspar – 2:46 partly true. however the eric staals and Ao’s don’t ever reach free agency. and despite getting the money it pisses the player and his agent off. for rissmiller no one cares. but next time the next free agent comes up and it’s between the rangers and flyers, he’d pick the flyers.

    not defending the redden contract at all. just dealing with the ramnifications of sending him to the minors.

  118. “I was speaking with a friend today, and we figured that the Rangers gave up about 30 goals from Jagr (being conservative) 20 goals from Shannahan, 15 goals from Straka, and I know I’m forgetting someone, but that’s 65 goals right there. Who did we get to replace those goals??”

    They’re coming from somewhere cause we have more than we did last year.

  119. kaspar – Youre 1:56 comment. Dawes, dubi, cally DO NOT equal toews, kane, versteeg.

    It’s that thing I used to talk about that the NYR spent a decade without developing youth. Now we have A LITTLE, and everyone thinks they’re superstars. They themselves are 2nd, 3rd liners…career.

  120. “It is damn hard to be patient isn’t it? Seriously? I want to build a young competitive team, that is consistent.”

    Nasty – It took DET & NJD a decade to do it. We’re not even 1/2 way there yet.

  121. doodie – You’re 2:38 post. Year after year the makeup of this team changes, yet we remain competitive. 1/2 the league would LOVE to be in that position with the player turnover we have.

    Pete – You’re not seriously going to use the PP as your point, right? Didn’t we all see the Q&A where Pearn took responsibility for it?

  122. joe in de 3:06

    buyout costs 2/3 over double the reamining yrs. so if allowed to (and not sure if can) it would be much cheaper to send to minors than buyout redden. and no doubt if we waived him no team would claim him.

    dubi will not break the bank with his so so season. can’t imagine them keeping prucha with the cap situation. his $ 1.6 mm or more will definitely be gone.

  123. “I think I’d be willing to give Teddy Nolan a shot as coach. He actually made the Isles competitive with their terrible roster.”

    Doodie – I like Nolan A LOT. But he was fired from the Island because he cannot coach young players. Wrong timing for him. Hopefully 1 day when we have a bit of vetern team.

  124. dave – 3:12 i think carp was referring to if a guy has no movement clause. it could prohibit ahl in addition to trades. and maybe although not sure buyouts as well. and i think redden has no movement clause. much more likely of rozy going back to europe instead.

  125. not-so-free agent on

    a big winner in a long contract is the agent, because HE gets more longterm security that way.

    case in point. if Zetterberg signs for $72 mill over 12 years, rather than say $36 over 5 years, his agent gets twice as much. but the key here is that if for some reason they split up during the term of a shorter deal, then the agent would not be able to profit from the next 6 years of Z’s career.

    so the agent has a selfish vested interest in getting a longer term deal for his clients.

  126. “Wrong, wrong, wrong. Slats knew DAMN WELL what kind of system was in place. Wanna blame someone, it’s slats for bringing those players in.” — the great beer me

    Wrong, wrong, wrong again, as usual. Renny himself in the 2008-09 preview on MSG said he wanted to play a puck possession, hard forecheck, pressure-the-other-team because that was the type of player he had and wanted to have. SO WHAT HAPPENED?? This is now a dump it in and change and make-them-go-200-feet-team. And if you don’t see that you are even more delusional than I thought.

  127. dave 3:30. buyout is 2/3 of remaining contract over double the remaining yrs. so say redden has $ 33 mm left after this yr and 5 yrs. buyout would be $ 22 mm or 2/3 spread over 10 yrs double the 5 yrs remaining. so approx $ 2.2 mm per yr for 10 yrs.

    as kaspar alluded to above when cba comes due in 2 + or 3 + (players have 1 yr option to extend) i could easily see an amnesty program to buyout players with no cap hit. also think new cap would be even more restrictive. no more loopholes like parking guys in ahl for one.

  128. wd40….like I said I was picturing a more Buffulo Sabres (contender year) then what we have now.

  129. li joe, your endless, nonstop, every-word-is-the-same posts about Avery are as numbing as the ones calling for renny’s firing that you used to complain so much about

  130. zherv – and within a few mos you’d be complaining about hossas contract the 1st time he went 3 games without scoring.

  131. cynar, yup, me too. But when you coach as scared as this guy does, it all goes back to what he is at heart —— a play-not-to-lose also-ran.

  132. beer me – 3:59 totally agree. with exception of staal our youth at nhl level is very much overhyped.

  133. glen sather’s hockey player bailout retirement program.

    dole out the cash to Redden, Rosival, Kalinin, Gomez, Drury, Naslund etc

  134. It’s easy for them to be overhyped now. Compare them to Jaime Skidmark, Jessiman, etc.

    Brand Dubinsky should hope to have the career that Manny Malhotra is having.

  135. wd40 – i agree with about 10% of what you say and even less the way you write it. the 10% translates to good words about Sam as he’s leaving. that’s about it.

  136. even after the trades, Jessiman and Montoya have not played a single game in the NHL, as far as I know.

  137. beer — Right, sure, a system a hockey team plays, you weren’t referring to that at all. (Busted!)

  138. Beer me!

    I never said that our young guys were Kane or Toews; I simply implied that when a first year player scores 14 goals shouldnt you expect 20? Not to mention a guy who once scored 30 and 22 being able to get back to 20??…

    and by the way the Rangers were 25th in the NHL in GPG last year…this year, presently,they’re 27th…where are you seeing this improvement in scoring…explain

  139. li joe, you are a ponderous scold, repetitive and unoriginal in thought. Other than that you’re doing a great job.

  140. “orr – 1:56 avery cares more about fashion than he does hockey. and his teammates hate him. why is it the best gm in the league holland of detroit said no way when asked about sean. but you know better than him?”

    I have no idea why you’d bring up the Wings in a Ranger convo. They shouldn’t even be in the same convo. The difference between them, is Wings have players that show up every game, unlike Nyr. They are 10X better than Nyr, so why would they bring in Avery, with everything that’s happened ? At least when Aves played here, he left it all on the ice, even though he cared more aboot fashion. Who cares, look at who’s on this team, some of these players are ghosts, then they show up for a game or two, or three then boom, ghost’s again. This team has no balls, no energy, and id take him back in a heartbeat.

    Aves isn’t the toughest guy in the world, but with him you knew what he was gonna bring as long as he was healthy, and he even surprised everyone scoring some goals.

    Who cares if the team hated him, get the fugg over it, just play hockey, you don’t have to go on double dates with the guy, or hang out with him.

    Ugh, i really never though id miss last years team so much, Aves, Jags, Shanny, Straka, ugh and even MALIK !!!!

  141. LI Joe, thank you for clearing up the buyout option. We could handle a 2.2 million hit for 10 years. Sucks, but we could deal with it, especially if we get value players developing from the farm system.

    I honestly think Rozsival has played pretty well as of late. He’s been much less reluctant to pull the trigger from the point, and has been much steadier on D. Not to mention he has gone games at a time without a sphincter-clenching turnover. Defensemen are getting big money, so if he continues to play the way he has, he may be playing at least close to what his salary dictates.

    Dubi is having a rough year, so hopefully he will sign for a reasonable price. However, Nik Z is having a good year, and he won’t come for a bargain basement price. No matter what, we will need to dump salary somehow. Whether that is by waiving players, letting their contracts expire, or trading players for draft picks, something has got to give.

  142. orr – how did avery do vs buffalo in 2nd round after he trash talked before the series, which by the way made buffalo play even better. and how did he do vs pitt last yr in 2nd rd. his body can’t cash the checks his mouth speaks. he will never be on a stanley cup team.

  143. alex, extra jalapenos! … I dunno, some days Beer me’s wild misstatements of facts (and his endless Renny-knob-washing) drive me over the edge

  144. Malik? whoa, now you are going way too far.

    it’s like the old joke,

    My ex-wife misses me, but her aim is gettin’ better.

  145. joe in de – if they do the buyout on redden, they should stay far from signing more free agents whether it be hossa or bowmeister. with cap coming down every $ will count. and if they don’t do the buyout they still should stay away even more so.

  146. LI Joe, I never said we would be able to make a move for Boumeester, I’m all too aware that we lack the space. My point was that in retrospect, had we not signed a UFA defenseman (Redden or anyone else), we could have brought Potter up to fill the spot and saved 6.5 mil/per while developing a young D man. By going through the season that far under the cap, we would be able to make a move for Boumeester knowing he is a UFA at the end of the season.

  147. joe in de – agree except the last sentence. should never have signed redden. and still should not go after ANY more free agents except 1 yr rentals and that’s a big maybe. so 20/20 hindsight no to redden. – and even if that happened no to bowmeister. between potter and other dmen we have in ahl, etc that would have sufficed. building with free agents will never work in a cap league (unless the league stacks in your favor like the nba will do for the knicks and lebron)

  148. JOE

    How’d he do LAST YEAR in the playoffs, before a FREAK INJURY !!

    He was our best player next to Gomer, and had a good game 1 against the Pens until the whole team blew it. Don’t bring up 07, it’s pointless, and seems like 10 years ago. Did you forget what he did in the playoffs already, I know you hate the guy, but c’mon, be reasonable, and swallow your pride.

    He’s not worth what he’s making, but even so, if we can get him at half the price, you wouldn’t do it ?

  149. ford – absolutely. (especially if we can sign him for big money and many yrs). pretty much guarantees we’ll win the cup this yr and each yr of his contract. and they should make him the c so he is 1st to lift the cup, after he guarantees it of course being down 3 games to zero in the final vs the wings. and proves that Holland knew nothing of what he was saying.

  150. doodie machetto on

    I would trade for Avery’s contract. Then I would hope he pulls a Marbury and watches the games from the stands. Except not the Rangers. The Wolf Pack.

  151. Orr
    I’m with you…I take Avery back (he is overpriced though) and enjoy watching games again…If teammates hate him so much just tell them the sooner you start playing kick-a**, smash mouth hockey the sooner we’ll dump him..until then thake your money and deal with it

  152. BTW

    The great Gomez, and Drury disappeared in the 2nd round, along with most of the team except for Jags, Straka, and Dubi.

    As for the Buffalo series, yeah Aves didn’t show up, and he learned his lesson, but the whole team sucked in that series, and they nearly turned it around, until Nylander raped us with a dumb icing.

    Nyr was very much in that series, unfortunately they came up short, in depressing fashion.

  153. Orr

    It was Tyutin’s icing in Buffalo in Game 5, but you’re right that Renney had (stop the presses!) the wrong players on the ice in the last minute of the game in Nylander, Jagr, etc.

    Why were they out there? Why was Buckner still playing first base in ’86? Clueless coach, clueless manager.

  154. Welcome aboard Rick. I don’t post here very often, my detractors say I only post when the Rangers lose.

    I am probably in the top 5 on Ranger boards to bash Sather and Renney. Both need to go. Renney has this team thinking defense all the time, they were even falling back when they were losing 6-2 the other night. That attitude of his has definitely hurt Prucha and Dawes who are good offensive players.

    When was the last time you seen the Rangers attacking the net with more than one attacker? They circle behind or fall back when one guy is attacking the net. That, plus never fixing his lines, plus his prejudice against Prucha and his passive reaction to bad calls are why I think he is a bad coach and needs to go.

    In Renney’s defense, Sather has not provided the players for the money he has spent. How many here including you Rick think Sather got his money’s worth with all the money he spent on Gomez, Drury, Redden and Rozsival?

    Drury and Gomez are good players but not the elite players that Glen should have paid all that $$$ for. Redden is a bust and never should have been signed. Rozsival is, well Rozsival. He is playing better lately up to his normal level which like Drury and Gomez is not an elite level and Sather overpaid here also.

    Some Ranger fans, like Margaret Hurley, think Renney is a great coach because he is a gentleman and focused good naturedly on Margaret when she addressed Renney at a seasons tickets fan get together with Renney and the staff.

    I have met Renney also. Met him in Lake George a couple of seasons ago where he stopped the team bus pulling out because some kid he left behind was crying. Renney took him on the team bus got him a stick and puck and had the team all give him autographs. You never saw a happier kid.

    Renney gets my vote as a gentleman, an ideal next door neighbor or golf partner BUT THAT DOESN’T MAKE HIM A GOOD COACH!

    Fans like Margaret, who I understand makes great cookies, can’t separate the coach from the man. Other fans like me can. If Margaret makes me any cookies, they’ll be laced with arsenic. She doesn’t like me. :)

    LI Joe, does this get me off the schneid for only posting after a loss? It’s an off day, right??

  155. orr and kaspar- i agree id have aves on this boring ass team and granted he wasnt so good in the 2nd rounds of the last playoff series, at least he made the game fun to watch. thats why we watch the games. im not saying he would save us and win the cup for us but damn it when he was here i had a good time and im sure everyone else did.

  156. beer i could care less what was said at one of the Q and As, the pp is on renney. At the end of the day the head coach is responsible for everything that happens on the ice. He is controlling who plays each shift and what plays are being run. If his assistant is doing a terrible job you lobby for that guy to be fired or at the very least let someone else run the pp which has been terrible for the past 3 seasons. hell they were barely practicing the pp in practice (which renney runs) for a good part of the season. He knows how to make them do wind sprints, but he has no strategy besides sending one forward in and having 5 hang back.

    and what about this teams motivation/accountability b/c they go hand in hand. You think keenan would have let his players play 40 minutes a night on a regular basis? Renney says the same thing after every loss but nothing ever changes

  157. besides dubinsky and staal, our young players (who play) are marginal at best 3rd liners. renney hasn’t proven he can develop a young forward yet, see dubinsky (and prucha). dubinsky is a kid who i bet would thrive playing for a coach who had a clue

  158. orr – i saw several tapes and read many stories about how sean was. saw him in practice where all the rest of the team was listening to the coach (dallas in this case) and sean is totally at the back end not caring at all what was being said. he also was using his cell phone between periods re his fashion deals etc. yes he was annoying to brodeur but marty only had to deal with him 6 or 12 times a yr. his teammates 82 games if he played them all and all the practices as well. if all you care about is wwf entertainment then sean’s your guy. if you want a championship team built at some point in the future then i say hell no to sean. and he was getting worse by the day wuth his attitude. his persona and outside interests were taking on a life of its own.

    so no nothing about autographs. just an informed opinion by doing my own research.

  159. anyone notice after the stickguarding incident with Avery, he saw a lot less icetime next series against the Pens and was bumped from the Jagr line despite all their success?

  160. pete your statement below is only when he has too many men on the ice

    “he has no strategy besides sending one forward in and having 5 hang back”

  161. Rodney, very, very funny stuff. Thanks Lennynyr. And everybody. These first couple of days have been a blast. Keep it coming.

    Can’t wait for some games to chew on.

  162. Pete – 100% agree with you. As much as I’d love to trade someone like Dawes, I have this gut feeling that guys like Dubinsky, Prucha, Dawes, etc would go to another team and turn into top 6 forwards, if not 1st liners. That crap has happened to the Rangers more than any other organization I can think of. We’ll dispose of guys as garbage, then they go to another team to have long, productive, sometimes all-star careers. The list of guys is so long it’s nauseating.

    The one thing the Rangers have lacked since the 94 Cup year was a legit coach.

  163. To the response before:

    Buckner was playing first base during the 1986 world series as a gift. He was a Dodger from 69-76 never won. Cub after that, and then he went to the Sox. He was on his way out, and it was his turn to “win the big one” and retire. It was his “Dave Andreychuck” moment. Nobody thought they would hit a ball to him. Plus he was a sure handed first basemen. Stuff Happens though.

  164. again explain to me why Voros is playing over Prucha?

    When Prucha was in there they had 9 forwrds that could skate and had some skills..

    dubi, Zherdev, and prucha

    dawes, korpi, and drury,

    naslund, gomez, and cally

    and the loser 4th line.. not the Gretzky Oilers but not terrible…

  165. RICK do you know the story of Sather and Muckler walking on the ice before a game and banging their Stanley Cup rings on the opposing bench board?

  166. onecupin67years on

    in the mid sixties I was playing ice hockey at the Riverdale skating rink in the Bx. and 2 players from the NY rangers were supposed to come to the rink and instruct us kids , who comes ? John Muckler and Bob Plager, Muckler was wearing his ranger jacket and plager had those cool ny ranger glover which were painted red, white and blue .Muckler looked old even to us kids ,we were about 14-16. They(Plager ) taught us how to hip check along the wall, “lead with your hip” and stick handling and passing, time flew by.

  167. good catch on the 5 back, my bad. i think prucha would do well elsewhere, can u imagine him playing with crosby (the pens tried to get prucha two years ago for malone at the time malone wasnt that good nor is great now but interesting nonetheless). Dawes i think is just a player who was good in juniors, i think he is what he is, which aint that sweet

  168. I’d love to hear from Sather sometime this season…

    personally I lost all (whatever little was left) respect for the guy the minute he signed Bobby Holik to a 5 year 45 million dollar contract. However, now his blunders have cap implications ala Redden and his outrageous contracts to both Drury and Gomez.

    Sather, do the honorable thing and retire.

  169. JOE

    Aves made a mistake and he knew it. Renney xxxxxx, but ill give him credit for keeping Aves under control, with the help of Shanny, and Jags. Aves told Hull on NBC, that the reason why he’s playing so well is because Renney gives him the freedom, and he never really abused that. He’s on a team where most of the players hated him, i never understood why he would leave a team that didn’t hate him as much as everyone else did, it made no sense, and obviously came down to money.

    Im not saying he’s gonna be the savior of this team, and he’s gonna put up career numbers, and take us to the playoffs, but at least he had the ability to light a fire under this teamsxxxx when they needed it, and this team could use a player like that right now. Maybe you enjoy watching Nyr xxxxd 6-1 but i don’t. I could use some entertainment to get through those types of losses, which hopefully there’s no more of.


    He only played one game in the 2nd round, and he scored a goal. Unless you’re talking aboot the end round in 07.

  170. Plus, the Red Sox were up a couple in the bottom of the 10th with a full bullpen ready to go … still, we were saying, why not put in the other guy (I can’t remember his name right now, but he was the usual defensive replacement)?

    No, I never heard the Sather-Muckler rings story. Or I forgot it.

  171. Let’s get over this Avery stuff, please!

    He’s not worth the headache nor the contract he signed. He’s never scored over 18 goals a season and has never played more than 3 full seasons for an NHL team in 7 season while being on 4 teams. Get over it. He is over-rated, over paid and formerly over hyped.

  172. Matt

    All true, but Stapleton had come in for Buckner in the late innings all year long, because Buckner had bum legs. And for McNamara to leave him out there, (ie. not with his top defensive team on the field) in the most critical half-inning in BoSox history at that point with a slim lead is one of the worst backfires in history.


    How great was ’78-’79. I still remember that spring so fondly, expecially when Arbour was gripping so hard in the series against the NYR, practicing the Isles for hours a day while Shero let the Rangers go play golf after a brief skate. Long live Bobby (“It’s not that I drink so much, it’s that I put it in such a small body”) Sheehan.

  173. nasty screw the b’s. we need to just focus on handling it one period at a time. well with redden and kalinin they get cramps so give them some midol before the 3rd period begins

  174. ford, that was the loudest I’ve ever heard MSG! louder than ’94. And there was none of that piped-in music, just Eddie Layton and the fans’ voices. Could use a Bobby Sheehan now, eh?

  175. orr – avery got hurt in game 4 vs pitt.

    there was no doubt in my mind that this was a rebuilding yr when they let jagr, shanny, avery and straka go. sometimes you have to take a step back to move forward, i don’t think last yrs group was ever going to get past the 2nd rd. and i liked straka and jj and even shanny even though i knew he was through. biggest mistake they made was not letting those guys go it was redden to 6 yrs $ 39 mm. kalinin at least is only a 1 yr mistake.

  176. Carp, I agree — I was there for Game 4 (Nystrom winner in OT over a flopping JD) and had never felt a more intense rollercoaster ride in my life. The crowd was unreal. Total elation to total despair. And to think they won Game 5 with a Hedberg late goal in reg (which the Rangers I knew NEVER did) after the harshness of that loss is a very sweet memory.

  177. not to make it a basball blog but the mets had tied it before the buckner play on a wild pitch. so who knows what would have happened. and i’m not a fan of the mets, or sox or yankees for that matter

  178. wd40
    January 30th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
    “Wrong, wrong, wrong. Slats knew DAMN WELL what kind of system was in place. Wanna blame someone, it’s slats for bringing those players in.”—the great beer me

    “Wrong, wrong, wrong again, as usual. Renny himself in the 2008-09 preview on MSG said he wanted to play a puck possession, hard forecheck, pressure-the-other-team because that was the type of player he had and wanted to have. SO WHAT HAPPENED?? This is now a dump it in and change and make-them-go-200-feet-team. And if you don’t see that you are even more delusional than I thought.”


    i was trying to make the same point to Beer Me! last night but he told me that i dont make any sense and he would like not to communicate with me anymore because of it!! Go figure… so unless u still want to communicate with Beer Me! plz dont argue with him…

  179. CCCP, the problem is simple — Beer me (like so many of us) wants to think of himself as a very savvy, knowledgable observer. And he doesn’t like it (like so many of us) when he reveals himself as being less than that. But instead of dealing with it and copping to it when he’s wrong (like so many of us) he stamps his foot and doesn’t want to have a playdate anymore with whomever it was who outed him.

  180. JOE

    Are you sure aboot that ? I don’t remember him playing a single home game in that series. Actually come to think of it, i think it was game 2, and he injured himself in game 1, but tried to play through it. You might be thinking of Betts, cause he got hurt in that series as well.


    You wouldn’t take Avery back at half his salary ? Maybe he wont be that offensive, but at least he’ll provide what the other 3rd liners are not. But that’s just me.

  181. orr – yes he played game 3 and was in a scrum near the near of that game. he did miss game 4 though.

  182. wd40, its all good though… maybe the name i use here intimidates him a bit… since i believe im the only one he doesn’t want to communicate with anymore lol… he must be still suffering from the “Cold War” syndrome…

  183. good game betweeen devils and pens so far…. dont be fooled it could easily be 3-1 pens or even 3-0, but holik made nice goal. meanwhile, anyone else hating this wait between games?? uhhh unfortunately trend continues for next few games

  184. Thank you Brendan Shanahan for making Glen Sather look like an even bigger jerk every game you help the Devils win. And it wasn’t “cap problems” — it’s impossible to believe Fritsche or someone else couldn’t be waived to bring back a Hall of Famer like Shanahan. Thanks for nothing Slats — again!

  185. Watching the Devils play makes me embarrassed to be a Ranger fan. Fuggin pathetic, look what they do to Pissburgh, and look what we do, we get shutout 4-0 by the overrated Marc Andre Flukey, and get raped 6-1. This team pisses me off. We had the division for the longest time, and now we’re 5 points behind, and Philly is aboot to win tonight, so they get 2 points closer to us. Great job Rangers !!

    I hope Slats fires Renney when the seasons over, and resigns. It’s time for change. Get rid of the losers that are keeping this team from being a potential Cup winner.

    Im enjoying watching Shanny put up some points, what’s that 3 goals 1 assist in 4 or 5 games ? Yeah, over the hill, old and slow, sure. It’s early, so who knows maybe he’ll “slow down” but right now, he’s looking pretty determined, and a hell of a lot better than anyone on the Rangers. Ugh, what a horrible night, on top of this, Pens get a point. Fuggin perfect.

  186. To Whom It May Concern: I have posted here many a time and dont consider myself a HOCKEY GURU, that being said my 1st Ranger game was when my father took me to the garden when Eddie came back as a Redwing.Having watched many games before and after I think that I qualify to BLEED BLUE. I have seem coke heads,smurfs and REALLY God given talent in my beloved Rangers but this team UNDER RENNEY and SATHER has got to be the most LOST BUNCH OF INDIVIDUAULS I have ever seen. You have a GM touting youth and speed and a coach( GOD I hate RENNEY )preaching a trap SYSTEM. Can we get our act together!!!!! Now I know Sather is a egotistical maniac BUT play the cards you are dealt. Redden total flop PUT THAT ON SATHER<PEARN<RENNEY but lets get real when ya have goal scorers USE THEM PRUCHA sitting 20 yea why useless PP NO PRUCHA YEA WHY Juggling lines why ???? Because your system isnt working YEA RIGHT Time for Clueless to go along with PP–Pearn, Pelino and on a longshot bring back Avery and ditch Redden afer all this is NY Would you rather have someone with BALLS or a zombie on skates

  187. Renney has his problems, but Sather is the one who has been here for years and years and years on end. But he’s too busy hiding from the media to do anything except throw an occasional player on waivers. Or else he’s coming up with reasons that the Rangers don’t need Jagr or Shanahan or Nylander or Sykora or Avery, but Redden and Gomez and Drury are sure to be saviours. Genius.

  188. Continued, PP is horrible for 3 yrs PEARN ( who vouched for Redden) Wheres Prucha? No balls or offense WHERES PRUCHA sitting in a pressbox. 4th line playing when we`re down by a goal YOU`RE JOKING Renney has the horses just wont use them because it doesnt justify THE SYSTEM Guess what THE SYSTEM SUCKS On a lighter note I would trade Redden for Avery regardless of his mental problems after all this is NY would you rather have someone with BALLS on your team or a mindless corpse

  189. i see leafs r interested in trading nik antropov. he would be perfect for us. will most likely cost us a draft pick

  190. for the love of god boys…..we don’t need Shanahan. All he would do is take away ice time from Korpikoski and then breakdown towards the end of the season.

    On a lighter note it’s time for Renney to take his head out of his ass and play Staal on the power play. He has a great shot and the ability to handle the point.

  191. Long time lurker here wishing Carp the best of luck for the future. Heading up to Boston tomorrow with a few buddies to see the game. We have 3rd row seats near the blue line across from the benches. Hope our heroes come to play– they usually play well against the Bruins.

  192. As we watch Redden for more than half a season, and have the depression kick in knowing he makes $6.5MM per year for 6 years…..I decided to read some NFL notes pertaining to the upcoming Super Bowl…

    And they had a story about Pitts defensive back Troy Palamalu…..Here is a guy who plays every play like its his last, plays with crazy passion and emotion, and with the determination to win….and it got me thinking more about Redden and his contract….and what he gives every night…

    I copy and pasted an interesting quote from Palamalu talking about his 4 year, $30MM contract which equates to $1MM a year more than good ole Wade’s contract-

    “You have to earn the money,” Polamalu said. “It’s not for what I did in the past, it’s for what I’ve got to earn now.”

    How could he earn that?

    “Four Super Bowls in a row?” he said, smiling. “Go out and play hard, that’s all I could do individually.”


    Carp, for us Rangers fans, can you please print that quote and put in right in Wade’s locker at the practice rink….

    Thanx in advance!

  193. Shanahan has played 5 games and has 3 points. Korpikoski has played 37 games and has 7 points. And Shanahan kills penalties and plays on the power play. So why didn’t the Rangers need Shanahan? Not to mention helping young players like Korpikoski learn how to be better players. Or having someone on the ice who would talk to the refs.

  194. Rob L.

    Shanny would take away ice time from Korpikoski? are u for real the guy has the same amount of goals in 4 games than Korpikoski has in 37 games.You worry about Shanny breaking down how about asking will Korpikoski ever start up.

    Gotta love these nitwits worrying about youth this youth that you put the best players on the ice period!

  195. ROB L

    Hmm, that’s funny, last i checked Korp has like 3 goals in 30+ games more or less, Shanny has 3 in 5 games. I like Korp, and im hoping he’s not a bust, but if anything he could have waited one more year.

    I agree with you Kurt, this system is for retards. It’s a shitty defensive game, that may actually work if we got rid of Kal, and Redden. The “system” is holding the team back, Renney is holding the team back.

    As for Antropov, i don’t know aboot him, he shows up and disappears from time to time. Good talent though, but i don’t know. If he was replacing Dru, then yeah, id go for it.

    Cant wait for tomorrow, should be a horrible game. Hopefully Hank is gonna show up, and Redden is gonna show up without a bag of blow.

  196. Hey guys and gals and Carp:

    If the Knicks can pay Stephon Marbury $23 million to do nothing, why can’t the Rangers pay Redden $6.5 to go to Hartdford?

    I like how Larry Brooks jumped on the bring Anisimov up team. Maybe if all the NY Journalists do it, we’ll see some results :)P

  197. Id love to see Artie up here. Don’t have anything to lose by it, give the kid some time in the NHL, if anything it may make him stronger down on the farm.

    Honestly, would Artie do any less than what all the 3rd liners are doing ?

    Move Dru to 3rd line wing, and put Artie on 3rd center, and Dubi on 2nd line center. Just for the hell of it.

  198. Any interest in the likes of tough physical and young dman Cam Barker….,,,, who is a RFA at the end of the season?

    Pair him up with Del Zotto……pair up Staalsy with Bobby Sangs…..bring up Potter and toss him on the other side with Rozy……dump Redden….kick Kalinin to the curb or maybe a beer league…..wont be able to resign p mara….

    would be a team atleast fun to watch

  199. Its rough being a self hating Rangers fan these days…In years past, when they sucked, we were atleast somewhat entertained in the misery……Now they are borderline mediocre and its grueling to even watch a game live on tv…..Usually I DVR and tend to hit the 30 second skip button alot….

    You look at this team compared to the team from the past two years and with the loss of Jags and Aves…it is difficult to get excited….

    I didnt really follow the Western conf. over the past 10 years, so I do not really know M Naslunds game…Seems like a nice guy but when he is on the ice I am not at the edge of the couch……

    I associate Gomez as a Devil who only hoists cups in a parking lot in Jersey….I thought I recalled him having a little more grit to his game…Rarely does he get dirty in the corners or throw any open ice hits….I did come to like old Icehole nemesis like Patty Verbeek and Ray Ferraro when they came to the NYR’s…I just dont know why Gomer doesnt do it for me….

    And Drury….the guy reminds me the type of guy that everyone knew growing up…a good all around athlete in every sport that was more a jack of all trades but master of none….Actually they say he is a master face off guy but I dont really see him winning the important ones this year….

    Oh well

  200. LIQUID

    Supposedly the Hawks were willing to trade Barker for Pruchs straight up, after the Seabrook deal fell apart. But that could just be BS.

    I wouldn’t mind him at all, he’s not that bad. Didn’t he fight Girardi this season ?

  201. Zhervalev

    Trade for Neil? Cheap shot extraordinaire..Orr without the charisma.Takes tons more penalties than Orr.

    Believe me – we don’t need him.

    I’m for anyone (within reason) for Renney’s replacement.

    His head just isn’t on straight – he fails to recognize what he sees happening on the ice, and seems to exist in his own parrallel universe where all of his defensive machinations work. They don’t !

    If it weren’t for LQ they’d have been in the scrap heap of history already.

    The one thing that he’s never understood is that the best defense lies in the enemy’s zone. His teams play mostly in Rangers end of the ice. He totally eschews the forecheck mode…lets one guy go in and the opposing D usually just ignores him to death.

    He simply does not know how to utilize the strengths of the individual players that he has at his disposal. What is the point of sending Callahan or Prucha alone in to forecheck the opposition while the rest of the team retreats behind their Maginot line?

  202. @ liquid –

    barker is a stud defensemen. if i had a spot for him id def try to sign him. unfortunately we’re stuck with redden instead.

  203. kc – 11:34 so korpo would learn more while sitting while the 40 yr old plays. maybe its about letting him get expeeience for next yr. we tried shanny et al. won 1 game in 2nd rd last yr and he was 2nd worst player on ice besides hollweg.

Leave A Reply