Rangers, Zherdev talking contract

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Larry Brooks has the story this morning of the “Rangers beginning contract talks with Nikolai Zherdev”:http://www.nypost.com/seven/01132009/sports/rangers/blueshirts__zherdev_talk_new_contract_149935.htm.

Zherdev is due to be a restricted free agent at season’s end, but if the team has aspirations of preventing an offer sheet extended to him from another team, they could lock him in before then.

“This is where I want to be,” Zherdev told The Post yesterday. “I don’t want to play in Russia next year. I want to stay here and play in the NHL, in New York, with the Rangers.

“I’m very happy here. I like the team. I like the guys. I like living here. Everything is good.”

As for other impending free agent wings, here’s “my story in today’s paper on Petr Prucha”:http://www.lohud.com/article/20090113/SPORTS01/901130385/-1/SPORTS.

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124 Comments

  1. I get to be first!

    LI Joe, or somebody else, please explain the difference between a restricted and unrestricted free agent? (ummm, other than the “un” part).

  2. Wow, this is promising. Shouldn’t we try to clear some Cap space before trying to add more debt? Or will Sather pull the “well, we already have (so and so) committed, so we can’t pay you 5 Mil per year…”

    I say 3 years/11 million.

  3. JJP
    January 12th, 2009 at 7:40 pm
    I will preface this by saying I haven’t been a big Prucha fan and say he deserves the ice time he’s been getting of late due to his play. And yes, I hope he proves me wrong.

    Despite his recent strong spurt of games, here’s why I’m not expecting much – last year he was nowhere and the first ten games of this year he was nowhere. There always the same arguments constantly brought up on why Prucha should always be in the lineup –

    1. He was great those two seasons
    Its funny how people will use past performance to shade a discussion towards their viewpoint. Prucha and Redden are actually two perfect examples. Both have had good seasons in the past but were off their game last year and the first part of this year. Yet fans overwhelmingly want Prucha to play and Redden to sit or get traded. I would almost argue that were more likely to see Redden return to form as he sustained a high level of player for longer than Prucha ever did.

    2. He doesn’t get enough powerplay time
    You can talk about Shanahan taking his powerplay time or whatever but the fact of the matter is Prucha only had to outplay Dawes, Hossa or Callahan last year to keep his spot in the lineup and he couldn’t do it. This year its Voros and Korpikoski, and he’s finally playing better than they are.

    3. Its not only about scoring, the rest of his game is strong too
    I think it is only about scoring with Prucha. Do you think that Prucha’s game is so complete that some other GM out there wouldn’t take a chance trading for a restricted free agent that makes $1.6mn who has “scoring potential”, plays well without the puck and can play good defense. The worst case scenario would be he proves you right and then you’d have to pay him fair value. This rationale really sticks with me because I’m sure over the past few years plenty of scouts have seen him but no trade or even a legitimate rumour has surfaced.

    4. Only Prucha gets held accountable
    I think there is some truth to this but I don’t think its just Prucha – it extends to all the wings on the margin. Listen, you dress 18 skaters each night and Prucha can’t play defense or center so ten spots are out. Naslund, Zherdev and I would argue Callahan are playing better, thirteen out. Team philosphy seems to be to dress a tough guy every night, fourteen spots taken. Dawes has been an incumbent and Sjoestrom is the best size/speed fit for the checking line. That leaves Prucha, Korpikoski, Voros, Fritsche, and previously Rissmiller all fighting for those last two roster spots. Its not hard to see why he hasn’t been in the lineup that much because his play hasn’t forced Renney to keep him there (unlike now) and there have been other options.

    Like I said to start, I hope he proves me wrong but I’m not going to dramatically shift my stance on him until he’s put together a solid 20+ games. It appears to me that he’s finally gotten the message that he needs to play his ass off to stay in the lineup, hopefully he keeps it up.
    …………………………

    If anyone ever wonders my take on peter prucha…JJP sees it absolutely 100% identical to the way I do. Nice job jjp.

  4. I believe it goes like this-
    restricted- the team that he plays for has the right to match an offer. Thomas Vanek was a restricted free agent 2 years ago, he signed with the Oilers, but Buffalo matched the offer. If the player goes to the other team, the old team will be compensated with a draft pick.

    unrestricted- player has the right to sign with any team.

  5. I don’t know…the guy is super talented…I just wonder if we have enough in the system to make all this work if we give him $4M. I think we’ll have to make a trade before the deadline to unload Prucha or Dawes or Fritsche or Korpi or Sjoe. Can we get any of them for under $1M going forward?

    Obviously want Cally back. What we really need is for Korpi or Sjoe to show they can be a top 6 winger. Now that I think about it, has Sjostrom really been given a chance? Or did they dump him with Betts from day 1?

    the guy did score 10 goals in 51 games last year before we got him….I’d like to see him get a handful of games on a line with one of the other centers, and see if he could be a top 9 forward. He certainly has the size and speed you’d like to see on the wing. Can his hands be THAT bad???

  6. thanks Hockey,

    that sounds right, now that I think about it.

    OK, so really no “home team discount” unless we proactively sign a guy before he becomes a FA, whether restricted or unrestricted.

    in that case, I think the rangers will probably let a couple/few of that group of guys get to free agency, and then maybe keep the 1 or 2 that don’t get good offers. Let the market decide who they keep (whoever’s cheapest). This way, they can afford the caviar for Redden’s pregame meal

  7. Thank you GOD for Zherdev wanting to stay here and the Rangers realizing the importance of extending his contract pronto!!

    Great news!!

  8. I hope Z isn’t counting on $4mil. We won’t have it.

    Our only saving grace right now is that Dubi is scoring WELL below were we ALL thought he’d be this season. The early hot streak is misleading in terms of stats. But unlike some other guys that (like all) go through scoring droughts, he brings 10x more to the ice.

    RFA’s/offer sheets…

    It’s broken down by value of the contract. These aren’t the exact #’s or picks, but it goes like:

    Signs for $7mil or more…4 1st round picks
    $5.5-7.4…2 1st rounders and a 2nd.
    3.5-5.4…2 2nd rounders & a 4th.
    etc., etc.

    btw…went back to read the entire “great prucha debate” you guys had yesterday, and there were some great arguments made either way. I don’t think there’s much to be added to it at this point. Just have to wait for the current chapter to commence.

  9. “This is where I want to be,” Zherdev told The Post yesterday. “I don’t want to play in Russia next year. I want to stay here and play in the NHL, in New York, with the Rangers.
    “I’m very happy here. I like the team. I like the guys. I like living here. Everything is good.”

    Didn’t Jags say the same thing? Shanny say something close, without the russia part?

  10. Beer Me,

    Jagr did say he wanted to stay in NY but the contract made it impossible. That is a totally different situation. Plus, Jagr always said he wanted to go back to Omsk and finish his career there because he enjoyed playing there during the lockout.

  11. Great article on Prucha, great to see him stick it to the management the best way possible, by contributing.

  12. “Jagr did say he wanted to stay in NY but the contract made it impossible. That is a totally different situation.”

    It’s exactly the same situation. We were in cap trouble to get jags signed, and we’re still in cap trouble. It’ll be the same situation for a few more years.

  13. we are in salary cap hell for the next 5 years due to the ridiculous contract Sather gave Redden.

  14. when all of the players are judged EXACTLY by the same set of criteria , let me know……stating renney talking points is giving his cya bs himself stance………..he has proven he does not belong as head coach just by his own words and standards…………

  15. hey i think zherdev is more talented than his stats show and should be signed now for as little as slats can get him. while hes still not a bona fide sniper and he is a great playmaker but when he starts puttin in 40 goals a year and i hope he does we’ll be glad we got him.
    beer- jags did want to stay but figured if drury and gomez were makin more than him, then he wanted to be paid as well while being able to actually c arry this team in ways drury and gomez cant. i never liked the way slats dealt with him n shanny, but with these 2 monster contracts he signed he screwed himself and couldnt do much about it.

  16. sorry for rehashing what a few people said about the jagr sit. but didnt see the posts. anyway, beer, ur right because without redden wed be the same team same record minus the 6 mill and adding another prospect on the blueline. that contract alone isnt reddens fault, si i dont get mad about him but maybe he needs to play hard like some other players makin 10 times as less.

  17. anyway, im in the midwest where its -24 wind chill n gotta get m y old bessie warmed up for work and the rangers better crush the isles tonight. they tankin for tavares anyway. go rangers and i’ll see you guys here later gametime. peace beer and everyone else.

  18. Beer Me,

    The fact that talks are beginning now to keep Zherdev here is a good sign. There’s plenty of time to tweak the cap.

  19. Great to see Prucha get his game turned around (despite having the odds stacked against him via the coach+management’s misuse of him).

    I hope I get to keep watching Prucha and Zherdev playing in Rangers sweaters for years to come.

  20. Signing Z is a must but is a 2 part equation. Under Renny Z will never be able to live up to his potential.Now for all the Renny lovers this may or maynot be a knock on your boy but we all have to be realistic and face the fact that Clueless`s SYSTEM doesnt allow a individual any kind of creativity and I am shocked Z hasnt been benched by Clueless for some of his SWEET MOVES.If you are tired like I am of DULL BORING hockey then sign Z get rid of Clueless and let this team play like it should with the players who were brought here.

  21. prucha25 – It is a good sign. And that his agent said ‘…with nyr for a long time’ could be to the benefit of both parties. He’s young enough that a 5-6yr deal makes sense. Thus lowering the cap hit each year by lengthening the term. I have no problem with seeing Z here for years to come. But I hope he’s not looking for $4mil. We just don’t have it right now.

    I’d say something like 5yrs $16mil? At the most. Not because I don’t think he’s worth it. But rather because we’ll never be able to fill out a roster if slats doesn’t get a f’n grip on how a salary cap works.

  22. “…but if the team has aspirations of preventing an offer sheet extended to him from another team.”
    And? Were you interrupted by doughnuts?

  23. HockeymanRangers on

    Something I was thinking about the other night with Zherduv, when he has the puck he usually gets double coverage. Which means there should be a open man somewhere on the ice. Now if we can just get Z to pass to that open man maybe we can score some goals. However the same thing should of happened when Jag’s played, but I remember us talking about it and it usually didn’t happen. Why does the theory not work.

  24. I think they will definitely sign Z in hope that he will click down the road or as soon as next year with AA or Grachev. It is exciting to think about, and also ponder what ifs with Chere. Awful.

  25. Z’s on $3.25 million this year. I imagine he’d be looking in the 4 yrs, $15-16 million range at least.
    Next year’s going to be a tough cap exercise for Slats and co.: Dubi, Cally and Dawes will likely earn a raise of some sort (i would use Dan Girardi’s contract as a possible guideline – $1.5m per), we will lose Kalinin’s $2.1, Fritsche’s 875k, the $290k hit from Rissmiller and possibly $1.6m of Prucha. Sjostrom and Korpedo may not get raises and Betts and Orr are both UFA’s who if they come back will not get much more if not the same as now.

    If we promote from within to fill the gap on D, Corey Potter is $542k per or Bobby S is $855k so we can save maybe $1.5m on D and the rest of the team remains mostly the same – maybe bring Prucha back for $1m per?

  26. Sam, great article on Prucha.

    Also, great news on Zherdev. Of course, Shanny, Jagr and Avery all said similar things to what Zherdev said. Brooks quoted Avery as saying “I bleed Ranger blue” last year…then Aves took more money elsewhere and ran.

    Looking forward to crushing the Isles tonight. Maybe Philly will lose so we can get back into first place.

  27. I want to support the thesis that poor coaching and a non-competitive, “star”-choked lineup is responsible for Prucha’s problems. Below I provide some stats that I think back up this point of view:

    Prucha scored most of his points on the PP in his “breakout” year. Then the Rags signed Shanny and Prucha came off that unit and the top two lines and suddenly there was no where for him to play in the lineup. He’s not going to produce as a third or fourth line winger. But he tried to play the physical game his coaches asked of him.

    Prucha’s TOI/Game year by year. The Total TOI declines as does the decline in production. Both match the decline in PP time/game. (Stats from around November/December.)

    05-06 13:41 3:49 PP Time 16 PPG
    06-07 12:59 2:53 PP Time 8 PPG
    07-08 11:38 1:38 PP Time 2 PPG
    08-09 10:59 0:40 PP Time 0 PPG

    I think his game is one of the most complete on the team and has inspired Zherdev and other players to play better. Zherdev, to me, seems like a slightly more skilled, less physical version of Prucha. Certainly Dawes suddenly goes to the net with more authority as he is confident Prucha will get the puck to him. Let’s see if he can do anything with Drury’s desire and confidence.

  28. i would look to sign at 3 or 3.5 max, he has a lot talent but just hasn’t put it together yet. if staal got 4M Z should get less as he has never had a year like Staal’s first year.

    also i missed the prucha debate yesterday, but in response to Beer/JJP’s post above two things, I think its undeniable that Renney has some aversion to Prucha so you can talk all you want about how he has to earn his playing time, but when u usually get only one or two games to prove your worth or minimal minutes, the player is fighting a losing battle (one that gomez, drury and others would/should have lost this season and they and many others were/are hardly playing very complete games)

    second, Id say its very unlikely Redden will ever be the same defenseman he was three or four years ago. He has lost a good amount of foot speed and most importantly he is not playing with Chara anymore. Redden hasn’t played at an elite level for three years and as a result Ottowa tried to trade him two years in a row.

    I would say it is a lot more likely that Prucha will return to his old self b/c he is younger and he actually shows effort. Also if Prucha had played in every game this season and done as poorly as Redden has I dont think you’d see many people claiming he should still be playing or remain on the team.

  29. HockeymanRangers on

    Is there anything we can do with the Redden deal??? This guy is just not worth what we are paying him??? And to be honest I think Nausland is border line also???

  30. the most disturbing part of L. Brooks article is…
    39.blah blah blah, committed to 8 players…holy shit!!
    what was Sather smoking?

  31. I’ve always thought Prucha was a guy who just wasn’t being used enough the last couple seasons. He works hard in the corners and has shown a proficiency for putting the puck in the net when given extended minutes. Hopefully Renney sticks with him for a while. It got to a point where he had to score to stay in the lineup for the next game. Then again, maybe it’s just time to showcase and raise his trade value a bit. Tough to get fair value for a guy who can’t get into the lineup every night.

    As for Z, great news. I seriously doubt he’ll take anything less than 4 or 4.5 though. He is their leading scorer and most consistent offensive presence after all…

  32. Zherdev’s cap hit is 2.5 mill this year, I think it is very do-able to have a 4 million cap hit a year contract. Thats what Naslund’s making, and he is a Alternate Captain for this year and next year.

    Im thinking 4 years/16 million.

    To gauge it (because i live in Flyers country)…

    Mike Richards makes 5.75 per
    Jeff Carter makes 5.0 per

    and I dont think Zherdev is quite at their level yet

  33. Z’s a prime target for an offer sheet – he’s due a raise from his current $2.5m cap hit (although he’s actually paid $3.25m this year) and we don’t have a great deal of cap room – if someone offered him in the $4m’s per year i doubt we could match it and would only get a 1st, 2nd and 3rd round draft picks in compensation.

  34. It will be interesting to see if the Rangers can get anything done w/Zherdev under the cap. He is young at 24 but signing anybody to long term contracts these days scares me, particularly one with a reputation for not always competing hard (although he’s been fine since getting to NY, but it is his contract year…).

    I think its unlikely that he would get more than $4mn from another club as they would then (correct me if I’m wrong) owe two 1st round picks, one 2nd round and one 3rd round.

    An interesting free agent to sign in Zherdev’s place, although I hate to say it, would be Gionta – who we already know has chemistry with Gomez.

  35. Am I one of the only ones who isn’t jumping out of his seat for the Zherdev contract talks?

    I mean, 90 percent of you to this day still get on Jagr for “not giving 100 percent” night in and night out; I think it’s a bit hypocritical to want to hold on to a guy who CLEARLY has some MAJOR mental issues — not only does he go into hibernation for weeks at a time, but he’s moody and lazy on his bad days.

    Even on the night’s where it looked like Jagr may be giving 60 percent, he still was noticable and made plays.

    On the night’s where Zherdev is playing at anything less than 100, he’s invisible.

    So let me get this straight…

    Sather wasn’t impressed by Avery, didn’t think we needed Jagr, didn’t think we needed Shannahan, didn’t think we needed Nylander, but has been so WOW’d by Nikolai Zherdev that he’s willing to negotiate a new contract midway through this season?

    That makes sense, how?

    If anything, he’s shown he is the enigma that Hitchcock and every other hockey mind has made him out to be.

    Do I like him when he’s on the top of his game, sure? Do I think this is the type of player you invest in for the long haul? Definitely not.

    Another BIZARRO occurrence in a day in the life of Glen.

  36. brandon,
    nobody has ever disputed Zherdev’s talent level. And he’s only 24! He’s obviously content playing and living in NY. We have to remember that these guys aren’t robots and he was obviously not happy in Columbus.

    He’s what you may call a calculated risk. A potential franchise player. Reminds me of a certain former #27 who has thrived in Montreal.

  37. The Russian Diva on

    Brandon,

    Z is the man. He has been giving it his all the entire year, and the knocks on him in C-Bus was that he wasn’t a good teammate, didn’t backcheck or play D – he also had contract issues that caused problems with management.

    He has made everyone around him better (Dubie hasn’t scored without him, Naslund and Gomez dropped off without him on their line) and by all accounts is a great teammate.

    I agree he still has his off nights but as he grows and matures he will be more consistent.

  38. It concerns me that we’re investing more money in another huge QUESTION mark, which may potentially leave the door open to a guy like Brandon Dubinsky going elsewhere — who despite recent scoring woes, is the type of player you build a franchise around.

    I’d also argue that Dubinsky has made Zherdev better and not quite the other way around.

    It’s very difficult to play with someone who carries and controls the puck as much as Z. He love to have the puck, so you have to adjust to him. In essence, he controls the shift… therefore, he hasn’t had to make any adjustments at all. He just plays his game and everyone else follows suit. I don’t see how that’s making other players better.

    No one is disputing his talent, but I think he’s a nice addition… definitely not a franchise player.

    The way I look at it is we have THREE franchise players… Henrik, Staal and Dubinsky. Any move that jeopordizes those three is a HIGH RISK LOW REWARD move.

  39. Zherdev has assisted on all but one Betts’ goal and Orr’s single goal.

    Unfortunately, Renney’s system is not allowing him to play to his potential.

  40. I have not seen Zherdev be too bad compared to the expectations of what he did in the past when he became indifferent to the play on the ice. He has been very flashy and has not done worse than average in the sulky player category, in my opinion, especially since he has spent about half of the season playing on what would be considered the third line.

    I think this contract makes the most sense from both sides for our restricted free agents. Zherdev is performing at a slightly better rate as in the past, as expected with his experience in the league, yet he is leading the team offensively. The Rangers will not want to take the chance that his production stays above everyone else, and Zherdev’s side is likely worried that he will fall into a typical funk, which is seemingly happening currently. Of course, Betts and Orr should be easy contracts to negotiate, as well, but they can be done later. Players like Dubinsky, Dawes, and Prucha will want to play out most of the season since their salaries can’t go down too much anyway.

    For the person who asked about the orange numbers on the NHL Numbers website, those are estimated annual salries, while the cap number is generally correct.

  41. Z is not the man. I dont know where you get him giving it all every game. Are you watching the same Z as i am?

  42. Why wouldn’t you want a guy who carries the puck and creates chances for teammates? Someone has to do it. He has more talent in one fingernail than Dubinsky has in his entire body. And I love Dubinsky but he certainly is no franchise player…a good piece but not a game changer. At least not yet.

    Most importantly, Zherdev has shown a commitment to defensive responsibilities and playing within the Renney system. Where would this team be without Zherdev? Scary thought.

  43. thinking about it, Z is probbaly gone….signing him for $4M seems like too much of a risk. I think Sather will be forced to keep all these other guys at slight raises. Signing Z means putting the team in an even more “top-heavy” situation.

    Man, I’d love to have a team where we’ve got 7 or 8 guys making $4M, and a few guys at $1M, and then Hank at his 7 and we’d be good. I don’t like the idea of having a bunch of guys at $5-$7M, and then a bunch at $800K….it puts us in a bad spot, even if guys like Redden, Gomez and Drury were all playing much closer to expectations, just not how I’d like MY team to be built.

  44. sore/brandon – agreed. In addition. You’re looking to lock up another guy that likes to control the puck, but is NOT a sniper. I think there’s tons of potential. But if there’s 1 thing I hate more than glen sather, it’s signing players to long term deals based on ‘potential’.

    The reverse can be dangerous too though. See Chris Drury’s contract. (I think he’s a good hockey player, with a proven track record, but his $ is just plain stupid)

  45. sore – completely agree on that salary structure being our biggest problem….for years and years to come.

  46. This franchise has a history of wrongly evaluating talent, both within and without its borders. It wasn’t so long ago that Colin Campbell and Neil Smith thought that Sundstrom was twice the player Kovalev was.

  47. Here’s the breakdown per section 10.4 of the CBA

    Offer Sheet: Compensation:
    $660k or below NONE
    $660k-$1mil 3rd rnd pick
    $1mil-2mil 2nd rnd pick
    $2-3mil 1st & 3rd rnd picks
    $3-4mil 1st, 2nd, 3rd rnd
    $4mil-5mil two 1st, 2nd, 3rd rnd
    over $5mil FOUR 1st rnd picks

    Now, hopefully when this is posted, it looks right.

  48. Drury’s a proven third liner who co-captained a team to Eastern Conference failure, one of those runs being after the best start in NHL history….hmmm…what’s about to happen this year if sh~t don’t straighten out?!

    Zherdev has so much talent, he’s so exciting, and he makes EVERY player on his line better. If Z isn’t here next year, who are they going to sign with his potential for $4million?! Who is going to produce what he does? He’s on pace for 68 points…nobody else is even going to break the 60’s let alone the 70’s! Obviously, another 5-6-7million per year would be disastrous but 2-3 years averaging $3.5-4.5 would be a good investment.

  49. NNYER said:

    ”…but if the team has aspirations of preventing an offer sheet extended to him from another team.”
    And? Were you interrupted by doughnuts?””

    Sam, you never finished your thought there.

  50. The Russian Diva on

    He has off nights, I’m not saying he’s Ovechkin by any means but I don’t see him dogging it. Some nights his toe drags, between the leg moves, and drop passes fail horribly.

    You can’t expect him to score 50 goals when being shuffled between lines with inconsistent talent like Gomez, Voros, Korpikoski, and Dubinsky.

    I think it’s a welcome change for the Rangers to invest in a talented 24-year old, as opposed to say, a 37 year old Mats Sundin, a 39 year old Shanny, or a 33 year old Drury. I don’t get the argument for signing players past their prime as opposed to those entering it.

    Whoever said he’s not a sniper, please see the video of his shot against the Pens earlier this year. He can be – he just needs to shoot more.

  51. “Whoever said he’s not a sniper, please see the video of his shot against the Pens earlier this year. He can be – he just needs to shoot more.”

    I did. And he’s not. Does he have the potential? Sure does. How much do you want to pay for potential? What if it doesn’t work? (see chris drury’s contract)

  52. The Russian Diva on

    “I did. And he’s not. Does he have the potential? Sure does. How much do you want to pay for potential? What if it doesn’t work? (see chris drury’s contract)”

    I understand your point, but Drury wasn’t signed because of his potential – they signed him for what he had already done and hoped he could still play up to that level into his 30’s. If Z doesn’t work out, another NHL team would probably be willing to take on his contract.

    If aren’t willing to pay for potential, then you end up signing players to long contracts based only on past success…and that is how the Rangers ended up with so much money invested in guys like Drury, Gomez, and Redden.

  53. Isn’t Valiquette a free agent after this season? Gotta sign him, unless he’s intent on going after a #1 stop.

    Is it just me or does it seem like everytime Valiquette plays he’s our best player? Seems like we have one hell of a duo.

  54. I love Z he’s our best player however this team can not afford another 7 million dollar player. 4 million max for Zherdav. Trade Gomez or Drury! Possible look into getting Vinny from Tampa Bay!!

  55. Can the Rangers offer arbitration to Prucha this summer?
    Its shows him as a restricted free agent on NHLnumbers.com

  56. Beer me – does not happen very often but think I disagree with you on the Zherdie stuff…. I kinda like the Russian Diva’s point. Its nice to see the Rangers take a guy that is in or about to reach his prime…. Not gambling on oldies that are in the waning years of their NHL lives a la…

    Certainly not saying Z is the next Gretzky… but for the right amount of Dosh ($3.5m tops) I would certainly take Z back and would sign him for a 4-5 yr deal…

  57. Diva – Agreed on part of that. My bad on the dru part. I overlooked that piece. But I still don’t like it.

    Parros – Free country dude. But I agree that 3.5 is the tops. Look at it this way…If ‘you’ think he’s looking for $4mil/per, then take into consideration that the cap will most likely be going down next season, and if not down far enough, it’ll go down again the following…leading into the expiration of the cba.

    My point there is that if the cap goes from the $56.7mil it’s at now, back to a number inbetween that, and what the previous year was(just 50.3mil), that could be anywhere from a 5%-7% reduction. You’d have to apply that reduction to individual players as well.

    $4mil is too much. UNLESS they’re able to move one of the big contracts.

  58. Who would know…? Sather actually has pulse! I’d love to see Nik stay… after all he is our most promising and talented player… Plus I remember someone mentioned something about Z loves playing against or with his Russian buddies… Anisimov and Grachev and Zherdev should make us pretty proud in years to come…

  59. brandon – dubi has thus far prven to be far from a franchise player

    sore and true – people answered restricted vs unrestricted. keep in mind because of the compensation in terms of picks teams usually are reticent to even bother going after other teams restricted. and look at anaheim they love the compensation they got for penner. also restricted free agents have arbitration rights for both team and player (at least 2nd yr of restricted maybe not 1st yr of restricted). arbitration rightsa for team precents a tender offer from another team. the rangers actually invoked this right with henrik so another team could not offer him a contract. they negotiated a deal before they actually reached arbitration.

  60. pavel – how much of a raise can dubi get. he has to be still less than $ 2 mm (which nwould be a 3 fold increase)

    z’s salary this yr is approx $ 3.25 mm. he will get approx $ 4 mm next yr – from someone. absolutely no going after any free agents from outside next yr – no exceptions

  61. I think Z @ 4 makes sense, assuming it’s a semi-long term deal (4y?).. Dubi should get no more than 2, and Cally 1.5ish… so that’s 7.5m + 40m = 47.5m in 12 players, with about 8m of cap space for 11 people… lol

  62. Pavel – I dont think Dubi deserves a raise. I think he’ll get one simply because he’ll be a restricted FA and NY will have to either match someone elses offer or make one significant enough to keep him from testing.

    Valiquette deserves the raise. And if he doesnt get around 1mil a year, you can bet he leaves NY.

  63. I am 100% behind locking up Zherdie, I don’t expect it to happen though.

    Agreed: Time to invest in a young guy rather than a wash up.

    Another perception: If Zherdev is ready to sign here, he must sense a coaching change on the horizon.

  64. I still don’t see how Zherdev’s talent makes everyone else “better”. He’s talent, plain and simple; raw, skilled, egg cradling hands talent.

    Guys that make everyone better a noticable on every shift. They take over games. He’s not even that type of player, let alone one to dominate shift after shift.

    Quite frankly, he’s not a visionary playmaker. Joe Sakic made guys better, Jagr made guys better, Sidney Crosby makes guys better, Marc Savard even makes guys better, Michael Nylander sometimes made his linemates better.

    Z is a threat — nothing wrong with that, you need more than one on every team, but he’s not a playmaker in the sense of the word. He’s got great skill and has the hands to thread the needle on more than one ocacssion. But, as far as being a natural playmaker — someone who’s job is to make guys better — I don’t see it. He carries the over handles the puck way too much to “make anyone better.” And it’s not a Jarg-type puck carrying, where he drew opponents to him and dished it off.

    It’s a dog and pony show puck handlding with the ability to make spectacular plays.

    I like him, but if signing him jeopordizes Dubinsky, I wouldn’t do it.

  65. Dubi may get a nice offer. You watch his game and wonder where the points are. There’s no shortage of effort, heart, and chances. The guy has it all for a 22 year old center, except he’s only got like 20 points instead of 40.

    It’s almost like an optical illusion. Feels like he could go on a 20 point run in 15 games at any time.

  66. brandon – dubinsky has 6 goals. they should easily be able to sign him without breakibng the bank. 1 or 2 yrs and not a lot of money.

  67. I wouldn’t call Dubinsky a franchise player yet, he might get there but he will need to be way ahead of where he is now. Franchise guys in my opinion are ones that can play with anyone and still excel like Thorton, Crosby, and Ovechkin.

    I would prefer calling Staal a franchise player as his level of play keeps increasing, he can play with any defense partner and he’s shown that he can shut down guys like Crosby.

  68. sore and true – the rangers have arbitration rights with dubinsky so no other team will be able to poach him. and his salary will be south of @ 2 mm a year for either 1 or 2 yrs.

  69. Any guesses on the final score tonight. I think the Isles put up a fight, but I think we are going to win.

  70. current 4 mil players in the NHL in Zherdev’s age range (24-26)include Tom Gilbert, Nathan Horton, Pierre Marc Bouchard, Derek Roy, Ales Hemsky and Brad Boyes. There’s no way he gets less than 4 mil nor should he.

  71. Sore & True – I know what you mean. But I’m not sure what to think of Dubinksy. He played a lot of minutes last year and he played with Jaromir friggin Jagr. He got more space to deal with than Apollo 13 and still only put up 40 points. Now alot of people say it was his rookie year, but he’s actually less effective this year when most people were expecting him to breakout. He’ll probably get a nice offer because he’s young and has potential. But so does Artem Anisimov. And some say AA has more potential. Dubinsky shouldnt get more than 900k.

  72. true Puck, but he didn’t play the full year with Jagr. Porbably 50 games at most. does that sound right?

    And, Jagr wasn’t “trying” the full year :-)

    It’s not like jagr had 120 points and Dubi had 40, you know?

  73. Ford, thanks for the Sundstrom rehashing, Im gonna go put my head in the oven lol. Hope all is weel folks havent been around awhile, a bunch going on and my grandmother is sick. Hope everyone had a great holiday.
    My thoughts on Z, He was my favorite player off of the Rangers so I’m a little partial. I do think He is a franchise player, he just was never developed right. So He is a little behind in his development, but make no mistake when this kid gets going, He will be another Kovalev. Players like him do not come along often.
    Lastly, I’d like to congratulate Petr Prucha, I’ve not been a fan of his, but I’m def. glad he’s shoving it my face. He has been a sparkplug to say the least.

    LGR!

  74. Sore & True – Thats true. I just expected more from Dubinsky. Same with Callahan and Dawes but not as much a Dubi. I felt Dubinsky could be doing what Phil Kessel has been doing in Boston.

  75. biff – First, best ‘blog name’ ever. Second, I’m glad you brought that up. Cause just like my post about the cap going down a certain %, you have to look at those deals also. As far as, when they were signed.

    If they were signed for $4mil this summer, roll that back 5-7% to match the (expected) decrease in the cap for next season.

    The Sedins are a good example too. If they woulda taken the prior deals they were offered in VAN, they woulda made the right decision. They turned them down, and now those same deals won’t fit under the cap(for next season). So they’ll end up with a lower offer.

    I think if you want to look for comparables, you’d have to take at least 5% off ‘former’ market value.

    It’s not gonna look like much. But in the case of our NYR with so many unsigned young players, every 200-300k helps. Thank you Glen Sather.

  76. pavel – well that’s not happening. maybe 1 of the dmen. will be gone – likely rozy to europe. drury has a no movement claiuse so he’ll be here 3 more yrs after this one.

    and people would be screaming if z made $6 mm and dubi $ 4 mm. neither is worth anywhere near that. DUBI HAS 6 GOALS IN MORE THAN 1/2 A SEASON

  77. CCCP: You really think the NYR will score 5 goals after Naslund said it is good to be back playing the defensive style we did at the beginning of the season?

    I hope you are correct.

  78. zZzZ 13 ZzZz rules!! on

    WOW NICE JOB SAM !!! I like yer article about Prucha ya wrote today . Sightfull and very true. The stuff you write here is small and short alot of times. We wish as readers to keep up writing about Rangers but a lil more would be great. You don’t have alot of time to daycare this blog and i have seen others bashing you for not. Some guys think they know Rangers and I can honestly say you do. Keep up the good job and I aint sucking up or trying to be nice ….Sam needs to know we like the job hes doing.

  79. Beer Me!

    I can also appreciate your name haha.

    Unfortunately I doubt Zherdev’s agent is going to be too interested in former market value. you have to admit, somebody is going to offer him at least 4 mil, if not more considering his upside. it’s important they get him signed before someone throws a Dustin Penner like offer sheet at them. Glad to hear negotiations are underway.

    Dubinsky won’t get 2 mil unless he puts a very good second half together. 6 goals ain’t cutting it for a top 6 forward.

  80. New Newman January 13th, 2009 at 3:19 pm

    CCCP is that a passage in the New Testament?
    ———————

    is it the one that says:

    “thou shall not scored more than two goals?”

  81. dubi is not a top 6 forward. he is 3rd line center so really is top 9 forward, and should be paid accordingly

  82. Beer Me! – The offer sheet compensation amounts are different now. Those are the numbers for the first year of the CBA. There are slightly higher contract numbers now. Look at the Wikipedia article for offer sheet.

    LI Joe – I think a team can only offer arbitration to a certain player once, so it depends on who we have done it with in a prior offseason. A player can elect for arbitration more times.

  83. zZzZ 13 ZzZz rules!!
    January 13th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz wohoooooo!!!! Sign that guy man!!!

    What the heck was that?

  84. give Z +Fritsche over to get Jay bouwmeester and a pick at the draft

    resign
    pru @ 1.5 x 2
    Dubi @ 1.7 x 3
    Dawes @ 1.1 x 1
    Sjostrom @ 1.2 x2
    Callahan @ 1.5 x3
    thats 7m for 5 guys as opposed to paying nearly the same for just the duo of Fritsche and Zherdev…get Jbo and sign short term 1-3 yrs @ 6.25 *same as pronger so his agent can’t complain*

    then build around youth like anisimov/Gratchev/ etc…

  85. pig – they may be different, that’s true. However, I wouldn’t use wiki for the $’s. Remember that entry about Orr?

    biff – I doubt his agent will be interested too. But slats better be. Because it’s relative.

    Again, I DO want the nyr to resign him. But there’s a price that they have to stay under. I think $4mil is going to severely limit our ability to retain key guys. Not that he WON’T get it. But it’s in the rangers best interest to lengthen the term to reduce the cap hit.

  86. Phalanx (Chris in MA) on

    @ the pronger hit: that was not a cheapshot… especially compared to his usual antics.

    If you watch the video you can clearly see him brace himself for the impact and he actually tucks his elbow in towards his body. Not his fault Parise wasnt looking where he was going.

  87. spider yes it’s true a team can only elect arb with a given player once. i don’t think we did with anyone last yr. also once elected that makes the player a free agent (unrestricted) the following yr even if they would only be restricted otherwise. still worked with henrik to prevent another team poaching. and can still work out a deal for 1 or more yrs. once a deal is done have to wait until january to start working on another deal – which is why stories like the z negotiations start in january.

  88. unless you’re putting one of sjostrom, dawes, prucha, orr, voros, korpikoski, betts ahead of dubinsky, then yes, he is a top 6 forward on this team.

    gomez, zherdev, drury, naslund, callahan, dubinsky. arguably your top 6. drury has been flip flopping between C and W all year.

  89. sved – i don’t think those numbers come close to getting us under the cap. we can not afford another $ 7 mm man – and on top of that raises to everyone. some are going to be gone just like whay happened to pitt. the cap is going down this yr and even more next yr.

    beerme – unless they do a dp like 15 yr deal with z i don’t see how lengthening the yrs will decrease the cap hit.

  90. We cannot afford another $5m+ contract unless one (or more of) Gomez, Drury, Rozsival, Redden and Lundqvist are gone… my vote is Gomez and Redden.

  91. bff- unless you move a center to wing then dubinsky is effectively playing 3rd line. drury has played center a lot more than wing this yr.

  92. pavel this is not a video game. and it’s not the nfl where you can just cut a guy. no one will trade for those contracts unless they return an equally bad and lengthy one. there are loopholes such as parking a contract in ahl like they did with rissmller. but doing that really pisses people off (incl agents who have other clients). doing that will make it very unlikely future free agents will sign here. maybe the kaspar treatment can be given and rozy allowed to go back to europe.

  93. The cap hit’s reduced because you’re reducing the per year value of the contract all together.

    In the Z case, I’d rather something like 17mil/5yrs than 12mil/3yrs

    Let’s just say (and this probably didn’t happen, but for an example…) that slats offered avery $5mil/1yr. If there’s an option on the table to make $15.5mil, but spread over the course of 4 yrs, your cap hit comes down conversely.

    Not that you don’t know that joe, cause I know you do. But maybe misinterpreting what I was trying to get at.

  94. “there are loopholes such as parking a contract in ahl like they did with rissmller. but doing that really pisses people off (incl agents who have other clients).”

    EXCELLENT point.

  95. sven 1.2 mill per year for Sjostrom? Are you kidding me? The guy is a nice pker and that’s it he’s not worth anything over the league minimum.

  96. beerme – understand what you’re saying. but unlikely player will take too much of a discount per yr to lengthen the term. and if they do may not be worth it. example i would rather have redden at 3 yrs $ 7 mm per yr than 6 yrs $ 6.5 mm per. would really rather neither but i think you get my point.

  97. zZzZ 13 ZzZz rules!!...says Greg L. on

    (beer me) Ya don’t want to break the bank not just yet …I agree . Z needs to be signed for what ever both sides see fit.
    Glen has to do this because he can’t have Z sit there unsigned while Kevin Lowe lurks around slipping teams offer sheets.

    Just because we screwed up on SIGNING GOMEZ and DRURY. We can’t let this 24 year old go …expecially with AA and Grachev coming up( I agree CCCP)….who ever says ( Dr house)not to sign at all costs is as senile as Sather himself.

    Staal , Dubinsky and Zherdev with AA and Grachev are our core guys!! Gomez , drury, Naslund , rozi? andbetts are not.

    howyagonnatellme nameshouldbe howthehell doIwritesomuch atatime.

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