Morning skate

172

I’m so sorry to hear that it’s cold and rainy on the West Coast. Really, I am. It breaks me up.

In the meantime, some notes from the cozy confines of Blog Headquarters:

<li>The real trading deadline isn’t for another few months, but the Rangers are confronting their own of sorts “given the whole Mats Sundin situation”:http://rangers.lohudblogs.com/2008/12/15/agent-rangers-have-offered-sundin-a-framework/. In fact, here’s my new question:

If Sundin says he’ll decide by the end of the week where he wants to play, and the Rangers have until Friday before the NHL’s week-long roster freeze, does the team make a move to clear roster space without a commitment from Sundin that he wants to play for them? In other words, is there a scenario in which the team trades or waives a player but then sees Sundin go to Vancouver anyway?

Of course, if that does happen, we’re not necessarily talking about a devastating loss but a player the team might have been looking to move regardless. The only scenario in which the Rangers confound themselves if they completely restructure their roster to make room for Sundin — i.e. moving one of their core players — but as of now, that doesn’t seem likely.

<li>Completely unrelated to big Mats is my story in today’s paper “on the Rangers’ shootout prowess”:http://www.lohud.com/article/20081216/SPORTS01/812160386/-1/SPORTS, in which players and coaches divulge some of their, ahem, strategies (starting with, “OK, Henrik, you’re in net”).

I did note the irony that Tom Renney is coach benefiting most from the shootout these days. Don’t forget that  it was Renney who was behind the bench as coach of Canada in the 1994 Olympics gold medal game, when Peter Forsberg won the shootout with the greatest move in history (later celebrated on a stamp)

I remember exactly where I was watching that game, in some dorm common area at Colby College, shaking off the cobwebs from a particularly late night out and preparing for the drive south back to UNH. A few days later I remember trying the move in a pickup game. Let’s just say there was no stamp to commemorate my effort.

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And speaking of my endlessly fascinating hockey career, I’m off to WSA in a bit for a midday skate. If I see Sundin there, then we’ll know he’s serious about picking the Rangers…

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172 Comments

  1. stevethebear,

    thanks. i think i won in fantasy this week because of my trip, i won by .68 pts.

    My rangers luggage tage tag is on the bag and ready to go.

  2. Sam-
    are these rumors being started by Toronto’s papers remotley true about the chances of Renney being fired. I’m quesy about the whole thing because Coaching changes are huge gambles at this stage of the season, but I was getting the hunch because over the off season Sather was talking about how the Rangers need to be a fast puck moving team, something that while they look like they are fast, they have not managed to do with great consistancy. And as we all know, no offense is not the way to win a cup. As much as it pains me to say so, the rangers will not make it past round 2 without a better offense, something which some feel Renney is holding them back from, and something they might be right about….

  3. evan – Lets just remember those same papers are the ones that accused avery of making the “cancer comments”. The Toronto Sun is very similar to the NY Post, and the two of them teeter on the border of being nothing more than a tabloid.

  4. REPOST

    I think Z will give up his #13 voluntarily… Mats will only be around for 1-2 seasons anyways. If Z is still a Rangers at that point he can take #13 back.

    As for him coming… no doubt I think it will be a positive offensively. But Im skeptical to see who/what we have to give up in order to get him here.

    As for him getting a letter… I’d rather see him with a letter than either Gomez or Drury. I feel Drury is one of those guys who does better when he can ‘fly under the radar’… and being the ‘C’ in NY is not exactly making that easy. I just dont think Gomez has the right attitude… you can tell he is a prick to the referees (and sometimes rightfully so)… but I just dont think he protrays captaincy of NY. Nazzy, on the other hand, is always the one to go and talk to the refs and get an explaination, etc etc. Hes the only one you see actually doing the do-diligence of a captain. What goes on IN the locker room from Dru,Gomer,Nazzy… I dont know. But of the three… I’ll take Nazzy.

    I should also note that I think Betts and Mara deserve to be considered for letters… Dubi and Girardi are possibilities. But they both need to grow some more.

  5. The weirdest thing in the world. I was unable to get in to play NHL 09 on the 360 X Box Live for about a week. No idea why it would not let me on. I could get on to Live but was unable to connect to the EA servers. So some little 10 year old kid in my class says to me, “Mr. Nasty, sign out of your user ID and go to Settings and change the year from 2008 to 2005 and it will work.” I said, “OK youngster, shuffle on and go play with your friends.” I thought he was crazy. So, in a desperate move last night, I do just that, and what do you know, I was on in an instant. Smart geeky little shit. The guy on XBOX support didn’t even know of this.

  6. Sundin ONLY wants a one year deal. He’s said billions of times he wants a cup this year and depending on what happens on a one year deal, he will decide his future in July 2009.

  7. Phalanx – not sure if you’re talking about what you WANT to happen or what you THINK will happen with the letters…

    But in reality, I don’t think there’s any way they’ll change it mid-year (other than in the case of injury). Remember when Shanny came over, and he was 10X the leader Jagr was? They didn’t make the change because it would strip a letter from a guy, even though it was obvious Shanny was the REAL leader of the team.

  8. haha Nasty you’re hitting the age you can’t keep up with technology. Good thing you got a never-ending supply of kids to ask.

  9. Sundin has wanted the Rangers all along. The reason he waited until now is so he can sign with us at a lesser deal. Knowing we had cap issues, his deal will be pro rated and he will have plenty left in the tank down the stretch. If he doesn’t sign with us or agree to a deal with us publicly by weeks end, I will send Bob a Christmas card.

  10. Just read that Sundins Swedish agent said that we can expect to hear a decision tomorrow. Probably so that would give the team 2-3 days to make the cap room before the roster freeze.

  11. We score Sundin now and hopefully Shanny is still available by the trade deadline if we still need more offense going into the playoffs.

    I would love to see Shanny back and on the third line. The only thing that worries me is are we reverting back to the classing NYR mentality of signing big name older players…

  12. “Jeever

    Phalanx – not sure if you’re talking about what you WANT to happen or what you THINK will happen with the letters…”
    _______

    We all know it wont happen… a guy can wish, though… right? :)

  13. I have heard all the season that sundin will play for rangers. From my mates in the elite league here in sweden. and i also heard that the dream for him and naslund would be to bring the other mighty swede. yes forsberg. now thats not gonna happen. but as some uå here have pinted out that they will be without tv for a month i bet if not sundin will be a ranger in a day or two i will not study anything before my law test in 15th january.

  14. Hey all havent been on in awhile, hope all of you are well. Been busy with college, but anyway I think Mats can be with this team is lacking. Most of you def. noticed this team is missing something and I honestly believe Sundin can be it. I hope they get it done that would make my holiday.

    LETS GO RANGERS

  15. “The Toronto Sun is very similar to the NY Post, and the two of them teeter on the border of being nothing more than a tabloid”
    Beer Me 12-16-08

    You know Beer, the post is not always wrong…for instance:
    yesterdays Post Horoscope said that i had to really try harder to get that project I’ve been dreaming about started…and they were right!
    I went home and went to sleep by 7PM!!

  16. SUNDIN LOOKS IMMINENT TO BE IN BROADWAY BLUE. DOES ZHERDEV GIVE UP HIS NUMBER 13????? WHAT OTHER NUMBERS WOULD SUNDIN CONSIDER IF NOT? HE SEEMS LIKE A LOW NUMBER KINDA GUY.

  17. what the team is missing… is defense & a competent coach with a bright staff who knows how to work a power play.

    I can dream cant I? LOL

  18. Mako you hit the nail squarely on the head.

    Sundin is a band-aid to cover up a gaping wound. He’ll deflect the attention from our piss-poor coaching staff and merely prolong the inevitable.

    So with Sundin we’ll make the playoffs and get bounced in the 2nd round. Big effin’ deal.

    I’d rather keep our young assets, miss the playoffs, get a higher draft pick, bring in a quality coaching staff, and start next year from scratch.

  19. Rocket

    I actually would want Sundin on the Rangers just to prove that will all of the offensive firepower will still blunt the teams ability to score goals under Renney’s “system”. Then upper management should take a loooong leering look at the coaching staff & dismiss them all….

    ESPECIALLY if the PP is still impotent LOL

  20. FIRE RENNEY–HOW MANY GAMES WE GOTTA PLAY BEFORE SOMETHING IS DONE? SCORING 2 GOALS OR LESS A GAME. MUST BE 80% OF OUR GAMES THIS YEAR. I KNOW OUR AVERAGE FOR THE YEAR IS ABOUT 2.20 GOALS PER GAME.SICKING.

  21. How diplomatic of the Swedes that the goalie on that stamp is wearing blue and not red. Are we supposed to imagine that isn’t Corey Hirsch and Team Canada?

  22. Sundin is a band-aid to cover up a gaping wound. He’ll deflect the attention from our piss-poor coaching staff and merely prolong the inevitable.

    …..

    zactly.

  23. Kaspar – I almost got pissed off 1/2 way thru that response about the post. Thank god it was a joke. (like the ny post)

    acdc – you used to contribute to this blog. Now just a follower.

    mako – I was going to bring up something similar, but the opposite of course. Figures you’d look for the negative before the positive though.

    This move, while I’ve said and still stick to, is surely not an ‘instant fix’ (as no such thing exsists, there’s always a transistion period), will prove whether there is a coaching problem in regards to offensive production, or simply not the personel to score more than 2GPG. I look forward to positive results.

    So if this signing occurs, I’m thinking of changing my ‘name’ to “Cup Run(Me)!” whatta ya think?!

  24. “Sundin is a band-aid to cover up a gaping wound. He’ll deflect the attention from our piss-poor coaching staff and merely prolong the inevitable.”

    Opposite. It will DRAW attention to the fact that there was not enough offense built into this lineup to score enough goals on nights your goaltender is merely human.

  25. doodie machetto on

    Well, here’s my take. Sundin wants NY. He’s always wanted NY. But, he’s not stupid. He won’t play for free, and with Vancouver’s $10 million offer staring him in the face, he’s gonna want SOME decent amount of compensation. I’m sure he’s come up with a number that, combined with his desire to play in NY, is better to him than the Vancouver offer. If Slats can offer him that number, he’s coming here.

    Now, Sather is at a severe disadvantage in trying to offload his salary. Teams know he wants to and why he wants to, so they are going to offer less than nothing in return for our players. As a result, waivers seems the likely route for salary clearance.

    Finally, Sundin just needs the commitment from Sather that he will get him the salary he demands before Friday. At that point, he can come in (without a contract) and PRACTICE with the team until the freeze is over. Then, once the freeze is over and the New Year is here, he will sign Sundin to a contract, making room by waiving Prucha and Fritsche, and sending Korpikoski back to Hartford. Thus, he woin’t count against our cap until he is truly in game shape and has worked with the team in practice to build chemsitry and learn our “system.”

    But, if Sather doesn’t offer Sundin the right amount, then Sundin will take the money and go to Vancouver. Sure, he wants the Stanley Cup, and the Rangers’ record is attractive. But the Canucks have 20 million reasons why he should take a risk in British Columbia.

  26. “acdaviddc

    FIRE RENNEY—HOW MANY GAMES WE GOTTA PLAY BEFORE SOMETHING IS DONE? SCORING 2 GOALS OR LESS A GAME. MUST BE 80% OF OUR GAMES THIS YEAR. I KNOW OUR AVERAGE FOR THE YEAR IS ABOUT 2.20 GOALS PER GAME.SICKING.”
    ________

    We have scored 2 goals or less (in regulation) in roughly 64% of our games

  27. doodie machetto on

    I think the real question we shuld be asking is why are we addressing this whole Sundin issue? Sure, we need goals. But we need some grit and presence on defense.

    Sather should put a call into St. Petersburg.

  28. Beer Me continues to amuse. According to him, you’re not contributing to the blog if over time, as acdaviddc has, you’ve come to see that this team is coached by relative incompetents.

  29. “We have scored 2 goals or less (in regulation) in roughly 64% of our games”

    And where does that rank in the league? Its only a relative stat if there are comparables.

    And take the opposing stat of % of games we’ve ALLOWED 3 or more.

  30. Is it me or do you guys feel like the Sundin move would be a double win?

    NOT ONLY would we be getting a much needed player with leadership and skills. BUT it would also dump (it has to) a huge load of cap space to keep us open to resigning our key guys AND we would probably get rid of Rosivol or Redden.

    ITS A HAT TRICK!!

  31. Beer Me –

    When it comes to the individuals on the team Im positive. I always hope that Redden, Roszival & Kalinin have good games. I want the team to do well. I just dont think that the coaching staff is the right fit for these players. But management is filling “holes” with players. When the missing void is really a good coach who can get 100% out of these players every night. Renney just cant do it. And when you never practice something that is your achilles heel… Then you should be scrutinized accordingly.

    The point to my post you commented on is just that. Brining in Sudin so you can add offense to a “defense first team” when the team doesnt play sound defense… 17 goals in 3 games isnt “defense first” to me. Why get more offensive players when the “system” is flawed?

  32. maybe Beer means you’re not contributing if you just randomly repeat the same stuff over and Over and OVER and OVER again… at some point that’s just taking up space.

  33. I gotta admit. I like Renney. My wife LOVES him. I know I’m biased. But he’s even make me wonder some lately (mostly with the Power play, and lack of practicing it EVER).

    Even then, he’s still a solid coach, doing a LOT with a lot of overpaid players and spare parts. This is kinda depressing, but look into the 80+ year history of the Rangers. Renney’s been with the team for his 4th year now, and he’s one of the top 5 in wins with the Rangers.

  34. this isa a thought out of nowhere, but I wanted to get it out there and see what people thought… We traded Jessiman to the Preds for Future Considerations. Could those Considerations mean taking 5M a year for 4 years (Rozie’s contract) off our cap?

  35. mako – points taken. But these players were brought in by a GM that obviously believes they were the right fit for the system that’s been in place for 3 seasons. If they’re not, it’s the GMs fault for bringing in the wrong players. A ‘collective fault’ by all those involved in the process, if you will.

    MY point being, is that there’s 2 legit sides to just about every debate that’s brought up here. The problem is, its harder to look at one side than the other most of the time. Sometimes due to the risk of contradicting an earlier argument. Sometimes due to taking the positive approach and being wrong. Seems harder than taking the negative approach…the odds are always in favor of not “winning a stanley cup”.

    There’s 29 losers every season. So there’s no doubt imo that its easier to take the negative approach and be ‘right’. Don’t see the entertainment value in that.

  36. me too Mako…

    jeever I think that means they will give aus a player to be determined later… but if you are right I would rather get rid of Redden’s bigger, longer contract…

  37. Sather is no Lou Lamoriello so I doubt he’ll fire the coach of a 1st place team in mid season unless the Rangers go on an extended losing streak. I do think, if the Rangers flop again in the playoffs, Renney might be in trouble.

  38. “Beer Me

    “We have scored 2 goals or less (in regulation) in roughly 64% of our games”

    And where does that rank in the league? Its only a relative stat if there are comparables.

    And take the opposing stat of % of games we’ve ALLOWED 3 or more.”
    _________

    I agree with you 100% … I was just answering a question asked by someone else. I’d love to go calculate the rest of the stats that you mentioned, but I should probably do some actual work.

  39. Jeevr and Agro… gotta agree with both of you. I have been a huge Renney backer over the years and still do believe he is a great coach… but damn is it getting harder and harder to defend him.

    My biggest issue is the line changing… Its odd cause the guy has so much respect for his players and always backs them when they are in a slump… But when it comes to his lines – he has no tolerance… First bad pass and the line gets split up.

  40. jeevs – I’m with you 100% on that in your last few posts (excl the jessiman one as its off the same topic)

  41. “Sather is no Lou Lamoriello so I doubt he’ll fire the coach of a 1st place team in mid season unless the Rangers go on an extended losing streak. I do think, if the Rangers flop again in the playoffs, Renney might be in trouble.”

    As SHOULD be the case. agreed 22.

  42. Phalanx – I didn’t mean to suggest anything different. Curiosity to the ‘importance’ of the #.

  43. Trade Deadline is still in Febuary, who knows maybe Slats will move someone and try and bring in a decent d-man, who can get the job done, without Roszivaling it to hell n back.

    If Mats is a “band-aid”, then that’s one band-aid that id want. He’ll help, but yeah, D is an issue, and as long as Rozi, and Kal are gone, we’re good to go !!!

    Hopefully this all ends tomorrow, and we start making some deals. Id like to get a good D-man in return but who knows if that will happen. Unless Dawes is thrown into the mix.

  44. parros,

    I know I don’t get why he won’t let some chemistry build. I also don’t like that certain players get int he doghouse to quickly (ie I have no idea what Dawes hads done to prove he should be playing over Pru or Fritsche even… Dawes is invisible so much of the time and having him in just in case we gett o a shootout isn’t an answer either…)

  45. parros – I’m with you on that too. My loyalty to renney is no secret. But there’s plenty of times I’m yelling for someone else to be on the ice. Or there was even a time that staal was coming out of the box when the current man-power was 4on4, he came out of the box early to make it a 5on4 PP, and skated all the way across the ice to the bench instead of jumping right into the play.

    I believe that a large portion of the criticisms stem from the nay-sayers “micro-managing” the games from their couches. I’ve been guilty of it in the past too. So you have to step back and recognize exactly what it is you’re criticizing and put it in perspective.

    “BIG PICTURE” – This team has improved considerably and continuously since the lockout with the current coaching staff. There is no reason to make a change until you’ve stood still for too long (ie: not making it past rnd2 this season) or start heading in the wrong direction. I just don’t see the point otherwise.

  46. Beer Me

    I would have to assume that the coach has some influence to the GM as to what players go to said team. That being said when Renney says “This is the team I wanted, this is the team we have” to the media, Im lead to believe that either the players buck the “system”, or the “system” just isnt working for the players. When they lose, they look completely lost out there. And when they fall behind going into the 3rd period they play with reckless abandon to tie the game up and win in a SO. Which is the team that is supposed to show up at the beginning of the game. If that part works in the latter half of the game, then why cant that fire be implemented at the start of the game?

    As a fan of the team for 33 years – I dont mind waiting for the right combination of young players & vets to build something special in a few years to win a cup. But during the lock out we were lead to believe the Rangers were in a rebuilding stage. Sather is doing the same thing he has always done. In throwing a boat load of money to aging players or mediocre players. The Redden contract was absurd.

    Im not disagreeing with you at all. When things are going bad we all get on the bandwagon and find fault in just about everything …. well all except Lundqvist lol

  47. I read yesterday Renney said he’s going to start keeping lines intact. “I’ve got to settle in here,” he said. “These poor buggers are looking for some traction…it’s just to stabilize some things right now.”

  48. orr – trade deadline is march 4th this year. Close enough…I’m just sayin.

    agr – To me, dawes, pru, frit…doesn’t make much of a difference right now. I BELIEVE, that Dawes finds himself in the lineup more often due to his potential future with the team. At $585k, its much more likely that we will retain him, probably on another 1yr deal for the same $. Prucha’s had 1 foot out the door for over a year now. Fritcshe…part of a package trade that probably won’t make it through waivers, so you do what you gotta do with him. Sather didn’t present a very easy problem to deal with in terms of a roster.

  49. mako – I agree with just about everything in that post. And the part that I don’t…well, its not that I “don’t”. I just look at it a different way.

    Thats the part about why the team can come back trailing in the 3rd(something this teams never been known for in the past), and why can’t they play like that to start a game.

    I think its a combination of things that we as fans are not privvy to the right information to have a educated debate on. We have no idea what is said in the lockerroom or during practices about the approach the team should be taking to start games. But I’d bet my home on it, that the plan is to TRY to get behind early, and stay behind until 1/2 way through the 3rd. At some point the execution by the players on the ice is the only fault.

    Sure, then the idea of accountability & benchings can be presented. That’s a whole ‘nother can of worms.

  50. yea Beer I get hta, but I also see PRucha do a lot more during games than Dawes… he wins and scraps a lot more in the corners, he leads more rushes, he tries to hit more players (bless his heart) I liked Dawes last year and all, when he was fighting to not go back to Hartford but this year he hasn’t shown much energy… given the in between rebuilding thing I don’t think burning Pru who plays now is such a good idea for Dwes who may decided to play later… I’d play Pru now and let a kid take the spot reserved for Dawes later…

  51. If you don’t want Mats Sundin, you obviously know nothing about him.

    If we don’t have to give up a core player (Henrik, Dubi, Staal, Gomez) then he’s completely worth it.

    The dude is an absolute freak of nature. The dude is 6’5″, 235+ with a powerful stride, rocket shots and soft hands.

    He’s also a take no shit, play both sides of the ice balls out, big goal scoring Swede.

    He’s only had less than 75 points ONCE since 94 (73 in 99) and has had 30 goals or more in 5 of the last 6 seasons.

    On top of that, he’s a leader. Something this team does not have. Chris Drury, that guy is not. Neither is Gomez.

    Sundin is a game changer and if you can find a way to get him on this team, you do it, at any cost.

  52. On Renney;
    I back off a little if they get 2 pts out west
    I back off for a month if they get 3
    I back off entire reg season if they get 4

    On Sundin
    What GM is going to help Rangers rid themselves on cap $$ at this point in season??? Anyone desperate for Kalinin or Prucha? Forget about Rozy and Redden

    On Line combos
    Everything about this organization reeks of patience, sometimes too much patience to the point of stubborness; they dont bench anyone making more than minimum wage, they still have Pearn and his 2-1/2yr old enimic PP, they still wont change the imaginary puck possesion mind-set; and Oh yeah Renney is still the coach-

    but line combos??? They dont last three shifts…amazing.

    The Rangers 3rd Jersey
    yesterday I actually read some people pining for the return of the old “shield style” jersey from John Ferguson’s time…does anyone realize that was probably the most hated and reviled NY team jersey ever issued (except for the fisherman)??? They gave that pajama shirt up and went to the finals the next year…I thought it was funny reading people saying “I wish they would bring that back”

  53. i agree with Brandon.

    The guy is a complete Beast, Sundin can play with guys here. Cough NASLUND Cough.

  54. Don’t change the name Beer! If you do make it like the one someone else suggested: Beer Cup Me.

    Anyway, I think we should get Mats in here… see what he can bring. It would help for sure, but How much is the key?

    I’m still of the mindset that the way these guys play… the defense is where we need the most help and while I had hoped it would be addressed in the off-season it appears that it was made worse (no Malik jokes please).

  55. I love how people assume Sundin at 37 is/would be a scoring savior.

    Personally I think it’s pathetic that the Rangers are scrambling to get him. Another over the hill star, expected to make it all better.

    The only way I’d feel 100% comfortable with this move is if it eliminated one of the Drury/Redden/Roszival contracts in the process… neither of which will probably happen.

    So much for changing the image of the New York Rangers. Seems like business as usual to me.

  56. GardenFaithfulinFLA on

    Chemistry – the Play Station line had a good groove going on and that came to a screaming halt – Renney broke up the line then benching the guys from that line. Since that point Dubinsky’s confidence was a shaken up a bit and Voros has been virtually unheard from. I commented at before the season started about Renney keeping line and not going throught the constant ‘tweaking’ allowing the guys build up momentum. Sure, you need to have the ability to interchange players but not on every other shift. I’m beginning to believe that every time the music stops at MSG he thinks he needs to change up the combinations.

  57. Kaspar, didn’t Ferguson take those jerseys to Winnipeg? I remember when they went to those jerseys and JD went to #00 and Espo went from #12 to #77.

  58. I can’t believe people think that Mats Sundin is some kind of freaken Messiah. Besides gold medals, has this guy ever won anything? I heard reports that he was drinkin’ beers in the skybox Saturday night. Sounds like Sundin is out of shape and following the lead of Redden by collecting paychecks from a club that holds none of their players accountable for their actions on the ice… Unless, of course, your under age 27, have heart and play hard in which case you get either benched, sent down to Hartford or end up drinkin’ beers in the skybox… If you ask me, this pussy Sundin is scared of going to Vancouver.

  59. Man, I am so not into signing Sundin.
    Unless we are making a deal for another D, like Tom Preissing from L.A. (might be a fit for Prucha, but we’d have to lose more $$ elsewhere.) I don’t think Sundin is a be-all fix. I’d love it only if they managed to clear room for both Sundin AND Shanny. Unless they plan to get a wing elsewhere.

    We know No one is gonna take Roszival off our hands unless we throw in something of quality. Just paring off and waiving/burying Sather’s bad decisions and scraps isn’t gonna fix the core problems.

    As for Renney, was never a fan. Always have been waiting for his dismissal. I would LOVE to see John Tortorella running the Rangers- I think his up-tempo style would be very effective and fun to watch.

  60. *But I’d bet my home on it, that the plan is to TRY to get behind early, and stay behind until 1/2 way through the 3rd.* At some point the execution by the players on the ice is the only fault.

    Sure, then the idea of accountability & benchings can be presented. *That’s a whole ‘nother can of worms.*

    ————

    Is that an imposter post? Did you honestly just bet your house that the Rangers’ set game plan is go down early and come from behind with 10 minutes left to go? Honestly…? This is a new level of ridiculousness. I’m having a hard time taking that theory seriously.

    AND if that WERE actually the case… you’d still contend Tom Renney is not only sane, but actually the right coach for this team? Speaking of which, that other can of worms about accountability and benchings… I’m interested in hearing more about that…

    This place is out of control.

  61. Also- Sam,
    It’s sunny, but chilly out west today – am driving down to the Ranger/Anaheim Game from L.A. this afternoon!

    Honda Center, Here I come!

  62. Salty,
    Personally I think it’s pathetic that the Rangers are scrambling to get him. Another over the hill star, expected to make it all better.

    Ken Hodge, Marcel Dionne, Guy Lafleur, etc. Isn’t that the NYR way?

  63. “On Renney;
    I back off a little if they get 2 pts out west
    I back off for a month if they get 3
    I back off entire reg season if they get 4″

    “Kaspar
    December 15th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
    I’d be happy if they got 2 points on this trip, shocked if they got 3 points…anything more and I’ll never criticize Renny again”

    Well?

  64. “Kaspar, didn’t Ferguson take those jerseys to Winnipeg”
    22figure8

    he might have taken them to Jets…not sure; all I remember is being teased by Islander fans growing up…and NOT going out and getting the replica of it ( along with my other close Ranger friends…we boycotted it)

    it represented a time period in between cup teams; Emile francis contenders and the Fred Shero ’79 team, Jean Guy Takbot in sweat pants coaching them, Rick Middleton for F*****g Ken Hodge…a time we all wanted to forget…even then!

    Yes, I was old enough to feel shame of it; but a little too young to drown my sorrows with Crown Royal

  65. doodie machetto on

    Sam, any word on how the Rangers are taking the news that Sundin has been made an “offer?”

  66. Beer me!

    You mean you actually read “all” my posts!!!!
    LOL

    I will never say never agian….NEVER!

  67. “Sam, any word on how the Rangers are taking the news that Sundin has been made an “offer?”

    IN OTHER UN RELATED HOCKEY NEWS, THE NEW YORK RANGERS HAVE ALL SHAVED THEIR HEADS…WHEN ASKED FOR HIS REASONING SCOTT GOMEZ RESPONDED…. NOT EVERYONE DID””

  68. I read just about everything posted here, (especially my favorites)… I did miss the clarification but for a minute I was convinced you believed that was the plan.

  69. “Kaspar

    “Sam, any word on how the Rangers are taking the news that Sundin has been made an “offer?”

    IN OTHER UN RELATED HOCKEY NEWS, THE NEW YORK RANGERS HAVE ALL SHAVED THEIR HEADS…WHEN ASKED FOR HIS REASONING SCOTT GOMEZ RESPONDED…. NOT EVERYONE DID”” ”

    WTF!? Really?

    I dont think Cally’s mom will be too pleased.

  70. Dubi needs to get over whatever and start playing like he did in the beginning. The playstation line was good, but after that was over where did Voros go? Nowhere…..

  71. The worst part is, part of me actually believe that the ‘shaivng heas’ thing might actually be true.

    -sigh- … sometimes i wonder how ive made it this far in life.

    Seems like you ‘got’ the comment I made about cally’s mom :)

  72. You think I’m kidding? V.U. 64 is the best OS I’ve ever used… and it’s not like my system is a monster:

    x2 5000+ (oc’d 10%)
    4 gb ddr2
    8800gt

    Macs are for queens.

  73. Forsberg played like 10 Regular games last year…had like 13 assisits..the guy can ( or maybe could) play the game…whats he like 34?

    It really is too bad but remember how he played? looking for contact, seeking out hits; if I were Caps I’d be worried about Ovechkin lasting the 13 years…he plays a lot like Foppa

  74. “(I had) a battery package hidden in my pants. When I turned it on, the foot straightened in the skates. It was kind of funny,” Forsberg said.

    funny! Thanks for the link Beer.

  75. DM re your 12:03 post.

    I don’t think moving 3 forwards and replacing with Sundin makes sense. creates either 20 or 21 man roster. the team has been extremely lucky with injuries this yr unlike virtually the rest of the league. if injuries occur both the injured player and his replacement will count vs cap (except maybe long term injury has special provision).

    cap room has to be 1 of big 4 OR a combo like Kalinen,Prucha and Korpo. Korpo could be swing man (or a cheaper guy from Hartford could be) in the event of injury. there has to be at least $ 500 k left in cushion for inevitable injuries.

  76. Kaspar

    Im assuming its the new windows vista OS. But then they insult people like myself who are mac users LOL ;)

  77. I think Sundin is a start, but what Sather does with our defense is the more important question. We CANNOT ignore what is going on with Redden and Blosival.

  78. BEER

    Is it ?? I thought the deadline was in Febuary ?

    And anyone who doesn’t want Mats here, like Brandon said, doesn’t know much aboot him. He isn’t the savior of the world, but he is a damn good player, who can still play the game, and id love to hear if anyone here thinks, Dawes, Pruchs, Voros, Sjostrom, Fritsche, or anyone else will do better than him, specifically if this team is in the playoffs.

    Signing Mats is a MUST. We need something extra, and this is the only chance i can see Slats trading Rozi away.

  79. ROB

    You’re forgetting Kalinin !!!

    Redden isn’t going anywhere, so forget the idea. He wont leave a team that’s in 1st place.

    He’s not having a great season, but what ever. Im willing to forgive the guy, if he shows up for the playoffs, same with Dru.

    This season as of now, is looking up and down, but as long as they get home ice advantage, that’s all that matters.

  80. orr – They moved it back this year. I don’t really remember the reasoning, but it made sense. Actually…it was originally march 3rd. But the problem most GM’s faced last year was that the league-wide schedule was very heavy that day. So they go and schedule it once again when there are 10+ games on 3/3. But only 2-3 on 3/4, hence the change…again.

    Why a week later? That’s the part I don’t remember.

  81. JOE

    The good thing aboot trading all these forwards away is, it gives some guys from Hartford a chance to play. Id much rather see Artie instead of Danny F.

    Gotta dump some of these players. Get rid of their contracts, bring Mats, dump him next year, then re sign the guys that need to get re signed. Boom !

    The more im thinking aboot it, im leaning towards trading Dawes. He’s one of the biggest disappointments of the season, but then again Cally had a horrible year last year, but now is having a good one this year. Unfortunately Dawes cant go o Hartford, and clearly being a healthy scratch isn’t doing anything to get his shit together. He may need to go.

  82. doodie machetto on

    LI Joe,

    Yeah, that’s fine too. I still think they can do it by moving the three forwards I listed, but yeah, they could do it with a D-man instead. Only thing is, they have to bring one up in exchange, whereas they wouldn’t have to bring up an extra forward for what I said.

    And isn’t there something in the CBA that allows you to go over the cap temporarily for something like an “Emergency Injury” callup or something like that? It might not be going over the cap, it might be avoidance of waivers, but there’s something like that. Anyone know what I’m talking about.

  83. If someone goes on long term injury, he doesn’t count against the cap. Maybe that’s what you’re thinking about?

  84. DM – if we move 3 forwards and replace by 1, and presumably move potter down that leaves roster at 20. i’m not sure of 2nd paragraph of yours re emergency injury callup. only thing i keep pointing to is there has to be pretty significant wiggle room since 20 man roster will not cut it even with day to day injuries, never mind slightly longer injuries.

  85. I think if we SQUEEZE Sundin in, we’re in real trouble… We’d have NO space for scratches/injuries. That’s why I’m of the firm belief we need to ditch Rozie. There’s gotta be a team desperate enough to take him…. right? (PLEASE?)

  86. doodie machetto on

    LIJ- yeah, I suppose.

    Still, they aren’t waiving a defenseman, and nobody will trade us for any of them except Staal, who shouldn’t be for sale.

  87. I remember being excited when Sather signed Pavel Bure and Alex Kovalev in the middle of the season. Love both of them, but it didn’t really make much difference. Sundin isn’t going to be able to singlehandedly win anything — Toronto was a horrible team the last 3 years. Although he would have been great with Jagr.

  88. doodie machetto on

    kc, actually, Bure was fantastic until he just physically couldn’t play anymore: 12 gp, 12 goals, 8 assists.

    Then he was great in the half season he managed the next year: 30 gp, 19 g, 11 a.

    Unfortunately, such dynamic goalscorers occassionally have their careers cut short by injury.

  89. kc that was different. The team was totally different, there wasnt a big mixture of vets and rookies. Its not the same Rangers, plus we didnt have a steady coach like Tom.

  90. doodie – section 50.10 of the cba talks to the point you were looking for before.

    It’s far too much to paste here. The long and short of what I could find is that they CAN go over the cap, but by a very small margin. In addition, and more importantly (I think) is that IF a team were to invoke the “Bona-Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception” the injured player cannot return until 24 calendar days AND 10 reg season games have elapsed since the injury.

    There could be more elsewhere in the cba, and there are calculations that would need to be done to figure out just how much over you can go.

  91. Nelson
    December 16th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
    Sundin wants to win a cup and chooses to plays for the Rangers?
    Anything wrong with this logic?
    ………….

    I don’t know. How did the discussion you had with Slats go?

  92. ”(I had) a battery package hidden in my pants. When I turned it on, the foot straightened in the skates. It was kind of funny,” Forsberg said.”

    Peter’s turning into the bionic man!!

  93. DM – i think kalinen could be parked in hartford replaced by potter as part of the freeing money up.

  94. I also DO think that there’s something in the cba, that I didn’t check for, to avoid waivers.

  95. doodie machetto on

    LIJ- they aren’t waiving Kalinin. No way does Slats admit two signing gaffes in one year.

  96. can’t we put Rozie on the long-term injury list for a really bad hangnail? Same thing the Devs did with Mogilny his last year.

  97. jeever was mogilny the one the devs traded to avoid cap hit. and they had to throw in number 1 pick into the deal to get SJ to do the deal

  98. LIJ – no sir, that was Malakhov. Ex-Ranger defenseman to boot. Mogilny had a back problem that they kept him out all season long with, even though he was healthy.

  99. working on the PP? Thats a step in the right direction, according to the interview with Zip, Renney isn’t happy with their lack of offense, which they will surley need to beat their upcoming opponents. Yet, still no potter, that makes me hit my head against the wall, why should Kalinin still be in the line up??? -19, Malik was never that low and he still got the axe? Please Relay that Kalinin has been just as bad, if not worse.

  100. FYI…It took a shootout for the Sharks to beat LA last night. Don’t be surprised to see a few 3pt games this week.

  101. doodie machetto on

    LI Joe, I think they traded Maladog.

    That’s the kind of deal I had in mind with Avery. If we can dump Rozsi for Avery, we could’ve turned around and picked up Khabibulin’s salary from Chicago (along with a 1st rounder), giving Chicago the cap space to sign Sundin.

  102. Sundin would a great help to this team,but Onec again let me repeat..They make ZERO—THATS NO TRADES—until and only until RENNEY IS GONE .Three years now people no pp,no scoreing at all really. in the bottom 5 in the league in goals a game.
    Granted we’ve gone from no playoff to making it to the 2nd round,but we all know why…thats right Lundqvist.Whithout him we don’t make the playoffs and Renney is gone last year, sometime around this time of year.
    Jagr was better and younger then Sundin is now and they lost,Its Renney fault mostly, not the players.Enough is enough fire Renney.
    I would love to make some trades,but with Renney here its gonna be the same old stoty.No pp no offence.

  103. zZzZ 13 ZzZz rules!! on

    Sundin and Naslund teaming uo together is awsome. I knew Naslund was good but at the start of the season I could not see why…the last few months hes been good. This guy was a steal , getting him out of Vancouver . Canuck fans losing Naslund is devestating , I can see why now..Getting Sundin , wont wipe away the hurt of losing Naslund . Time for Vancouver to dump the sedins and go another route.

  104. DOODIE, One little tid bit on Bure. After his knee surgery he was a head case but could clearly still play. He just felt his knee was not strong enough thus was afriad. The doctor that did his knee did my knee around the same time. We discussed the Bure situation. He was ready to go and strong enough. Mentally could not perform.

  105. jeever – dm is recommending getting the bad contract and parking it in hartford (contract ends this yr). only costs real $ not cap $. reward for doing that – getting a number one pick.

  106. doodie machetto on

    Richard, interesting. You’re talking about the last surgeries he had, the ones that he never played after? I think that if the doctors had cleared him to play, the team would have forced him to play or not pay him, right? I never heard anything like that. Maybe he still was hurt a bit. Not to mention the doctor has patient confidentiality rules, right?

    I don’t know.. that’s a lot of holes in your story there.

  107. OH MY GOD — SUNDIN HAD A COUPLE BEERS!!!

    It “sounds” like he’s out of shape?

    Gimme a break. Guy’s a pro athlete and a hockey player and a Swede.

    And they say Europeans are the sissies.

    This team needs a change or it will be stuck at mediocre and infuriating for the rest of the year. Actually, I find it hard to believe that only one change is needed, but Sundin can’t really hurt, so if the Rangers can get him, I say go for it. There’s no on outside the net who isn’t expendable. in fact, that’s WHY this team needs Sundin (or someone).

    Go Rangers!

  108. doodie machetto on

    “There’s no on outside the net who isn’t expendable. in fact, that’s WHY this team needs Sundin (or someone).”

    Marc Staal and Brandon Dubinsky are not expendable. To a lesser extent, Zherdev isn’t either, but since there are no guarantees on his resiging, he COULD be expendable for the right price.

  109. doodie machetto on

    Ironic we are talking about Bure at the same time as Sundin. Both were taken in the 1989 draft. Sundin #1, Bure #13.

  110. I think Z is far more important than Dubi. agree on Staal – he is the future captain of the youth not dubi.

  111. Everyone is tradeable except for Hank. Staal is good, Dubinsky is good but I would trade them plus Zherdev in a second for Ovechkin.

    Zherdev is in the final year of his contract and will be a free agent. Almost by definition, players with that status are tradeable.

  112. Doodie, I can assure you that there are no holes, but I will agree that I know nothing outside of what my Doctor told me in regards to how the organization dealt with Bure. I just can’t get into specifics like who the doctor was. All I can tell you, and you know, is Bure never played again after his ACL surgery. I do not sit at my desk and conjur up stories because they sound good. If I was able to do that, I would be a screenplay writer or a novalist. You can take my story however you would like. You are entitled.

  113. “JJP, I’d trade Hank for Ovechkin”

    No way. When someone above asked why Sundin would think this would be a good place to try to win a Cup – as did Drury, Gomez, and Naslund -it’s all because they realize the caliber goalie they have on their hands. Of the other strong teams in the East, only the Rangers, Pittsburgh and Boston have anywhere near the goaltending required to emerge from the conference and win the Cup, and in Boston I’m not sure I’m buying into Thomas yet. Philly, Caps, Habs all have suspect goaltending. A guy like Ovechkin can carry you to a good seed and maybe a round, but it’s the goaltending that ultimately gets you there or doesn’t. Hank is among the most valuable assets in the league. I’m surprised that the NHL hasn’t gone more out of their way to plaster his face all over everything considering he’s in a huge market that has one of the biggest followings across the country, and is the league’s best goalie. but I guess that’s another rant (I mean really, why on earth does the league consider whiny Sidney and ugly Alex as their most marketable players over a classy dude like Hank?)

  114. i agree with DM on this one. Would trade Henrik for AO. guaranteed Wash would not do that deal. look at some cup winners lately Osgood, Ward, Khabibulin (sp?). and some runners up like Edm with no major goalie. yes these guys get hot for 2 mos or have great teamwork in front.

    the only dominant goalies in last 12 yrs were Roy and Brodeur and look at team and system around each.

    much easier to find the next henrik than the next AO.

  115. The only reason I wouldn’t trade hank for AO is because he’d become a nuetral zone player here in this grandly orchestrated-defensive-system; a roving backchecker with slide and block tendencies; he’ll feel no need to even bring his stick with him anymore….

    meanwhile w/o hank back there vit would all crumble to pieces

  116. Staal is going to be great, so you’re right there. But Dubi? Come on, everyone. He’s good and maybe, just maybe, will be very good. He’s not the second coming of Messier. Have you seen him playing without a future HOFer? Moments of excellence, long spans of nada. Those kids on the Hawks both look better. As does Jordan Staal.

    And I like Dubi, but to claim he’s not expendable is to not understand that I mean expendable for real quality talent, not for a bag of pucks.

  117. when comparing rangers young forwards to other teams…see my comments on AO playing under the current tutors above…..

    I’m getting my last shots in on Renney in case they win 2 out 3…I promised Beer Me! I’d stop making fun of the guy until new years if that happened

  118. kaspar – i thought that was for rest of season. just don’t be like Orr who has been known to welch on bets of body parts

  119. kaspar,
    don’t worry, they will not get 4pts. if they do i will carry the torch on renney bashing.

  120. SAM – Does Lundqvist get the start in goal for tomorrow too? I think Valiquette should get the L.A. game regardless of Lundqvist’s performance tonight. We have a big game against San Jose and we need a fresh goalie.

    Also, it would be nice to see Valiquette against Jason LaBarbera. Considering they won the Harry Hap Holmes award(lowest GAA) together as members of the Hartford Wolfpack. It would be interesting to see the NHL matchup between the two. And I hear they are good friends. What do you think?

  121. doodie machetto on

    LI Joe made the point I was thinking of with Ovechkin and Hank.

    And when we last won the cup, we did it with Richter. Granted he had the best season of his career that year, but he wasn’t among the top 10 goaltenders of his era.

  122. I agree with LI Joe…

    The most recent cup winners have been teams built with excellent D and creative O and the Goaltending has been average. Thats not to say i would ever want Lundqvist to get traded (he’s my favorite player), but having the arguably the best NHL goalie doesnt mean you will win a cup.

    I think this is the reason the Rangers are pursuing Sundin. We need Offense and someone to score on the PP. Hank will be fine back there most nights no matter who we dress on Defense.

    Even if we trade just Kalinin, and not Rozy or Redden, we will be replacing him with a young, hungry, determined player to take his place in Potter, while adding a guy who has scored at least 70 points every year except his rookie season and the shortened season in 1995.

    I think Prucha is gone or because their cap hits are so low, we may have to package Dawes or Callahan to sweeten the deal of taking a Kalinin or Rozsival in a trade.

    No matter what, we are losing a young player (Dawes, Prucha, or Callahan) AND a Defensemen (Kalinin or Rozsival) to bring Sundin in. Korpikoski will almost definitely be sent down to Hartford for the rest of the season due to his 1.1 million dollar cap hit as well

  123. Sorry, I’ve been a Ranger fan since 1991 but I don’t think this team (in it’s current state) can be a cup contender.

    Hank is a one man show. 75% of the team is playing like sht. Coaching staff (and Slats) doesn’t help either.

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