Amateur general managers, start your calculators

225

So now that we know that “Glen Sather will indeed sit down with Mats Sundin on Saturday”:http://www.nypost.com/seven/12102008/sports/rangers/sather_to_meet_with_sundin_on_saturday_143550.htm, I’m interested in opinions on how the Rangers could actually make this happen.

Of course, one opinion is that the Rangers shouldn’t make it happen at all. The team has a logjam of centers as it is, and as Larry Brooks rightly pointed out, the natural move of Chris Drury to wing isn’t so natural at all when you consider Drury has never seemed comfortable there (others have said that Brandon Dubinsky could play wing, and while it’s true Dubinsky has been dreadful on faceoffs this year, he’s still a prototypical pivot to me).

But if you’re of the belief that this team is clearly at least one major piece away from being a serious contender — what, the nailbiting win over a mediocre Atlanta team didn’t win you over? — then you need to start thinking about ways to make room for Sundin.

For the record, I don’t think Sather saying, “Mats, it’s a privilege to play in New York, so you should accept the league minimum” is going to cut it. And I’m equally skeptical of any plan that involves waving veterans and burying them in the minors.

So get thinking. I’m sure Sather and Cam Hope will appreciate your suggestions.

The Rangers are on the ice at noon. More later…

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225 Comments

  1. Who Needs Lohan on

    REPOST:

    A new low at the Who Needs Lohan household last night…..

    WNL: f%&k this team sucks…(continously for about 2 1/2 hours”
    Mrs, WNL: wait didnt they just score and win? why arent you excited?
    WNL: Sadly, I’d rather this team lose than win…
    Mrs. WNL: so then why are you watching?
    WNL: Wow, thats a really good question…I guess so I can see them lose and fire their awful coach..
    Mrs WNL: (walks away saying nothing, shaking her head)

  2. Said it before and I’ll say it again, I love Dubinsky but he still needs some more experience tokeep his work ethic consistent. Move Dubinsky to 3rd line center and Bring in Mats Sundin.

  3. Yes, Dubi should stay at center. Drury needs to stay at center as well. Should we be so lucky to land Sundin, HE should be the third line center for at least 10 games to get his legs and timing back. Although that is highly unlikely due to his “star status” and Renney constantly changing lines.

  4. making room for sundin.

    Trade Rosy for a pick and a minor leager or stay at home d-man, bring potter up waive dawes or prucha(i’d much rather keep prucha), make kalinin get lost on the NY subway, we may not lose his salary but we wont have his anemic defensive play anymore.

    if it happens use these lines.

    Sundin, Zherdev, Naslund
    Dubinsky, Gomez Callahan

    this could also be drury and return to the 3 center line we had a few years ago, man i can’t remember who was on that

    Drury, Korp, Voros
    Betts Sjo Orr

    now we have a legit first line with a second line that contains one of the best playmakers in hockey.

    I’d also love to get a look at anisimov some point this season.

  5. I will start with this….Lohan…that is too f-ing funny….after Orr scored his goal my wife was like, “Wait, Colton Orr? He’s a Ranger…why aren’t you cheering?” I was like, “Hmmm, I don’t know.” And honestly I didn’t know? Maybe some part of me wanted to see them get beat…

  6. Who Needs Lohan on

    The funniest part about people suggesting line combos is that even if Renney did use your lines they’d be lucky to make it through an entire game!

    Ergo, give it a rest already….

  7. I have to tell the Kasperette to go easy on Renny; I almost feel bad for him the way she sits there calling him un-manly names; I think to myself ‘I better behave or I’m next’

  8. Other things:

    1) Kalinin another -2. I mean WTF? Please Renney, put in Potter just to make a statement. I don’t care if Potter goes -2 himself.

    2) Redden and 3 assists? How bittersweet is that? (And what kind of BS is involved with 2nd assists?) A handful of Thrashers touch the puck, Voros gives it back to Orr, and Redden gets a point? Then on the Callahan/Dubi goal? Cally breaks up the play on the boards, gives and goes with Dubi (sorta) and Redden assists? Gomez gives and goes with Redden (again, sorta) after carrying it up almost the whole ice and Redden gets an assist? You gotta be kidding me. The guy fanned on a wide open slapper from the point. He is still a f-ing farce and we have him for 6 yrs.

    3) Vally is stellar. Just a great backup to have for Hank.

    4) Dawes played pretty well I thought.

    5) Rosy continued to look shaky.

    6) The Sjo, Dubi, Voros line was the best of the night I think. They all showed some grit. I DID NOT think Dubi’s hit in the 1st was a penalty. Anyone else get that?

    7) How frustrated is Gomez? Glad to see him score that OT goal. But the guy has 2 fights in his last 3 games? At least he is fired up. My bro told me he takes boxing lessons as training. Wonder if Kovalchuk can confirm that? LOL

    8) Anyone catch Drury’s interview in between periods? The guy sounded borderline suicidal….

  9. Who Needs Lohan on

    New Newman…

    TOTALLY! Although some 16 year old losers on this blog may give us the old “come on guys, these are your New York Rangers” pep talk, I can honestly say that I didnt cheer, clap my hands, or even have the corner of my lip begin to turn upwards. Sad, but all too true. On the other hand I didnt get all that worked up when they were scored against either. Just kinda giggled inside when indeed #45 was on the ice. Let’s call it indifference for now…..

  10. Trade Rozi and DUBINSKY to Dallas for Avery. Put Avery on the long term injury because he has a mental illness. Sign Sundin.

  11. Sam,
    I know I may get some flak for this by my peers.. But the best way to do this would not to take the “easy way” and trade Rozsival, that’s only in my opinion.
    We have roughly 1.2 million cap left
    Trade Kalinin:2.1
    Trade Prucha: 1.6
    Send down fritche:.8

    That’s about 5.7 million dollars right there.

  12. And about Kalanin, the guy is not that bad. He fits the mould perfectly: Average two way d-man. What is needed is a capable 7th Dman. Each one of the Dmen — Stall & Girardi included — needs to see the press box once in a while. They need to realize that they have to perform to stay in the lineup. Sometimes they are just banged up and need a day or two to watch. So, bash Kalinin all you want, but there are a lot worse options out there.

  13. If I were Sundin I’d look Slats straight in the cigar and tell him FIRE RENNEY (You think I’m impressed by how you ah..Whipped…Atlanta?)

    And New Newman; I saw that interview ( I usually dont watch the because they make me suicidal) and yes…I’ve seen more passion come out of a mannequin than from Dru

  14. Cwgatti,
    You’re right, kalinin isn’t horrible.. but the team doesn’t need a good two way d-man.. it just needs a stay at home D-man.. something that could be addressed closer to the deadline. Kyle Mclarin is still in San Jose’s farm system- he makes 2.5- it would be pro-rated if we got him in a couple of months and would only be like a 1 million dollar cap hit.
    Kalinin gets what, 16 minutes a game- and is still a -17.. I honestly think that Potter could stay up and at the very least match that at a cheaper salary.

  15. It didn’t necessary address what you said about the importance of a 7th D-man.. But I think we’re close enough to Connecticut that we could bring up a 7th d-man at any time.

  16. Fritche – $875,000
    Kalinin – $2.1mm

    Cap Space $1.3mm

    = $4.2mm

    throw Roszival in there (I wouldnt want to do that)
    & it teters a little over $9.2mm

  17. With $40m in 9 players next year, 8 of which are UNMOVEABLE CONTRACTS, and considering the cap will go down or stay the same, we have to go all out this year.

    Sign Sundin!

  18. Nobody is taking Kalinin’s 2.1 just because you want them to. We’d have to give up a draft pick to get someone to pay him off. He’s only a one year deal anyway, so we can walk away at the end of the season.

    The bigger problem is that this team only plans one season at a time. This is not a legitimate cup contender with or without Sundin. Take away the honorary “goal” awarded for winning a shootout and this team has a negative goal differential. That’s not a team that is close.

    But bring in Sundin on a multi-year deal and what do you do this offseason when you already have limited cap room to sign Zherdev, Dubinsky, Callahan and Korpikoski – and that assumes we are walking away from Prucha, Dawes, Fritsche and Sjostrom who are all RFA as well. Valiquette and Orr are FA’s too (I could care less about losing Betts)

    In the post-lockout NHL, successful GM’s in this league don’t tie up most of their cap space in a handful of bloated contracts. Unfortunately, that is exactly our m.o.

  19. BillyDeeWilliams on

    So I can understand how people would be skeptical after last night’s win…but to say that you’d rather this team lose is pretty ridiculous. Just my opinion.

  20. YOUR RIGHT ABOUT BEING 1 MAJOR PIECE AWAY FROM BEING A CONTENDER.ANR ITS A COACH,AGAIN LAST NIGHT AGAINST THE CRAPPY THRASERS 2 GOALS IN REGULATION,SICKING….
    FIRE RENNEY

  21. pemoco,
    A team like.. Carlona, for instance.. may bite on kalinin because of the rash of Injuries they have on their back line. I believe four of them are Injured reserve.

  22. BillyDee

    I am glad they won, but not at all impressed with how they won. Last night’s game should have been automatic: second worst team in the NHL, in the middle of a stretch of especially bad performances and with their backup goal there to let in two deflections.

    I welcome the win, but it’s hardly a validation of Renney’s leadership. Even after the game, the players sound more medicated than motivated.

  23. Put Kalinin, Dawes and Fritsche on waivers. When they pass through send them to Hartford and if they get picked up good riddence. Nobody is trading for these guys….

  24. Matt-Thanks!

    Great story; great to read and the comments about how it gets no play because its “positive” is so true

    Reminds me of a thing the Yanks did in spring 2008 when they went to Virginia Tech to play a charity game and to visit the players and coaches who had survived the schools shootings the previous fall.

    All the big salary guys went ( jeter, Arod etc..)they visited the memorial, hung out with the kids before and after the game signing mementos etc..

    It got very little air time;

    Very little was heard about it; only when Madonna is involved it seems; or some other scandal do athletes make the news

    Thanks again

  25. Pemoco…you make a good point and then you say, “I could care less about losing Betts.” That just makes anything else you say that much less valid.

    I bet you my life that there are at least 5 teams that would take Betts in a heartbeat and probably 10 others that would express further interest in a shotblocker, PK stud, faceoff guy, forechecker. Have you ever seen Betts really lose the puck in the offensive zone? I can’t even think of more than a couple of instances…maybe when he was 1 on 3 in a corner or something. The guy makes the smart, heady play nearly every time. He makes less mistakes on the ice than almost any other forward we have.

    Betts isn’t your point getter, but he is one of the top 5 defensive forwards in the league. And he is a bargain in the world of 7mm Drus and Gomers.

  26. Larry Brooks:

    “It’s pointless to speculate..”

    HOLY SH!T…IF HE’D ONLY TAKE HIS OWN ADVICE!

  27. We just got rid of one aged euro toad, we’re gonna turn around now and sign another? Dumb.

    What this team needs more than anything is new leadership behind the bench.

    Fire Renney and co. Get rid of all his pets.

    Give Zherdev 24 minutes. Give Staal 25+ and some pp time.

    We may need to make some moves before the season’s over, but not now. Not until there is a sense that the team has some focus and direction.

  28. Really? Columbus had no problem taking two defensemen off of our hands. Backman was making $2.3mm and Tyutin was making $2.5. So a trade of a bad player is possible…

  29. New Newman

    I agree with you on Betts and he has been with the Rangers the longest (Im pretty sure). He is one of the best defensive non-scoring forwards in the league. You dont have to put up points to do the right thing night in and night out.

  30. A couple of things off topic.
    I read somewhere a couple of days ago that said that Columbus was in the Hunt for Redden..Now if that’s true and they signed him- then columbus would of never traded for tytuin and backman and the Rangers would of never gotten Zherdev..

    In that thinking.. I took of the list of potential free agent D-men for next year.. and it’s pretty bare. I’m sure someone would take Rozsival whether that be during this season or in the off-season.

  31. “acdaviddc
    December 11th, 2008 at 10:31 am
    YOUR RIGHT ABOUT BEING 1 MAJOR PIECE AWAY FROM BEING A CONTENDER.ANR ITS A COACH”

    So you really really really think that the PLAYER ROSTER *AS* *IS*, is a stanely cup roster? Pass that sh!t to the left!

  32. “To all the Blair Betts fans: Care to sspeculate why his face-off % is going down every year?”

    And why our PK gets better every year?

  33. Federov and $6M per year ( 3 years remaining on it) to Jackets for Buecheman and I think a pick too (Brian burke’s only brilliant move)…..dream dream dream

  34. Does anyone know where I can see the Gomez/Gianonne interview from last night after the game?

  35. sign sundin, trade or waive prucha [i hope he clears and goes to the pack] and send korpi to the pack. thats 2,6 mill cap space. if it’s not enough trade or waive kalinin keep potter up and recall fahey. that’s another 3.5 for sundin and it gives the rangers a 7th dman and fritsche as a 13th fwd. lines: naslund-sundin-drury /
    dawes-gomez-zherdev / sjostrom-dubi-cally /
    voros-betts-orr…..

    don’t like those lines how aboot – naslund-sundin-sjostrom / drury-gomez zherdev /
    dawes-dubi-cally / voros-betts-orr

  36. And not that Betts is the worst player on the roster, but he’s easily replaceable. Using that same logic, because Jason Strudwick got a job elsewhere means that we should have kept him on the team.

  37. Fand form Germany on

    trade Rosy and Kalinin and sent Fritsche and Dawes down! get a new 5th d-man, bring up Potter, sign Sundin AND Shanny ;-)

    Naslund, Sundin, Zherdev
    Dunbinsky, Gomez, Callahan
    Shanny, Drury, Prucha
    Sjostrom, Betts, Voros/Orr
    Korpedo

    Redden, Staal, Giradi, Mara, new d-man, Potter Fahey

  38. Howyagonnatellme on

    I’m more concerned with the length of this possible deal.

    I’m assuming Sundin is going to want one or two years. One year is fine, but if we do two, and get right up on the cap, it restricts us from signing Dubi, Zherdev, Cally, Dawes, Prucha, Fritsche, Mara, etc etc, even more so than we already are.

    Dubi and Z will command a decent salary. Even if you let Dawes, Cally, Pru, etc walk, now we’re out that many wingers AND we have an over abundance of centers. Only Prucha, really, will command less money then he’s currently making. (Is Pru a RFA or a UFA this season?) The rest will want a raise.

    Also, Z and Dubi are restricted, which can help a little, but we can bet on the possibility of offer sheets. Sundin’s worth a lot, but not worth losing our talented youth, or ending up with no wingers next season.

  39. Bravo Beer Me!! I was just done typing to Chris when I thought to respond to that with exactly what you said LOL

  40. Anyone really think we can win a cup by adding Sundin to this team as currently constructed and coached?

  41. Sundin said he only wants one year at the chance for a cup. Depending on how that goes, he’ll think about coming back next year.

    So one year, give him $3m or whatever, trade Rozsival and Kalinin and we’ll be in better position to extend Zherdev in the offseason.

  42. REPOST

    I don’t want Sundin on this team. What I do want is Renney and his crack staff gone.

    All this talk about moving players and bringing in a big time goal scorer is classic NYR bullshit and isn’t going to lead to any success, let alone sustained success, in this new salary cap era.

    I see NO coincidence that good players like Chris Drury, Wade Redden, Scott Gomez and yes, Rozsival collectively underachieve while on this team. In fact, it goes against logic. When you put good players with other good players, they’re able to do more collectively. This has not been the case here. What we have seen though is a good group of players, young and old, with 100% heart and good coaching and development, can win a cup. Look at Detroit, who have Juri Hudler and Johan Franzen making barely over 1 million a piece. Not to mention Zetterberg only making 2.6, though he will likely get a fat extension as he is a UFA after this year. The same can be said for the LA Kings, who were supposed to be a laughing stock this year, but continue to impress with decent play from Frolov, Dustin Brown, Kyle Quincy and Drew Doughty. Jeff Carter and Mike Richards in Philly both came up from the Phantoms. It seems Dubinsky, Dawes, Prucha and Callahan have hit a wall. These are good players, and we know they can play. Dubinsky doesn’t rush in to make offensive plays anymore, neither does Dawes. Prucha scored 30 goals, 16 of which on the PP, now not only is he not even considered for PP time, he’s lucky just to be in the lineup. The problem here isn’t with the players, it’s with the coach. Our PP has been abysmal for years while Detroit obliterates opponents with over 30% PP efficiency. Yet we don’t practice it and instead watch video. If making the playoffs and getting stomped in the 2nd round was a success, then we should never get rid of Renney. But this is the Cup or nothing, and so long as Renney is captain of this ship, we will get nothing.

    All this talk of getting rid of Dawes, Prucha and now DUBINSKY, flashes me back to the mid-late 90’s, We won’t sign Shanahan because he’s too old, but we’ll sign Sundin, who is only 2 years younger. I guarantee, we’ll trade Dawes and Prucha for a bag of pucks, they’ll go somewhere else where they’ll get real coaching in a system that works, and they’ll be scoring at least 20 a year. Dubinsky could have turned into Mike Richards, but this goddamn system Renney has sucks the will to live out of these guys.

  43. howyagonnatellme,
    You’re right.. I hadn’t considered the length of the deal yet..Sundin MAY want to take a two year deal ala Selanne because the Olympics are next year.

  44. exactly pavel.

    On Sundin….

    I’d love to see Sundin on Broadway. And though it doesn’t happen often, but has recently, I think slats’ approach should be the same as he took with Jags, Avery, Shanny.

    “You want to play in NY? Well this is all we can afford. Take it or leave it”.

    “all we can afford” you ask?

    Prucha’s 1.6 – A few options on how to shed that.

    Korpi back to htfd

    Without doing the math…that’ll give us like $3mil, right? Well…that’s all we can afford.

    I wouldn’t bend over backward and change the composition of this team AGAIN. But there’s no doubt he is a difference-maker. To what degree? You won’t know unless you try.

  45. On trading Rozy…

    Let me 1st say, I’m all for it. BUT…the proposal’s to just “dump him” for a draft pick, ain’t gonna happen.

    At $5mil, with another 4yrs to go, frequent surgeries, currently not playing to his past level, etc, etc… You’re not getting anything more than a 3rd rounder for him.

    BUT…if you want to get something worth while, you have to package a prospect or some lower round picks with him to get anything ‘worth while’ back.

    It’s just not that easy to trade $5mil with 4 yrs remaining.

    This is not a fantasy league.

  46. WHOOAAAAA..

    ESPN reporting rumors of a trade with Dallas and the Rangers that would send Rozsival to Dallas, and Avery directly to Hartford. Rozsival’s 5 mil would go to Dallas and Avery’s 4 million would be buried in the minors and not held against our cap.

    THAT’S CRAZY

  47. BEER ME– DIFRENET COACH DIFERENT SYSTEM,YOU TELLIN ME NEW PLAYER(S) IS GONNA GET US ON TRACK.SAME SYSTEM SAME 2 GOALS A GAME.PASS THAT S*IT TO THE RIGHT.
    FIRE RENNEY

  48. SAM take your pick on who to move Redden, Rozival, Drury, or Gomez. Then move Fritsche, Prucha, & Dawes , Renney the cya coach doesn’t need them. And get a real D man, send Kalikin back to Russia.

  49. brooklyn

    Redden & Gomez have pretty strict no movement clauses on their contracts. So…Cant do much with them.

  50. You can make all the trades you want,nothing is gonna get better til RENNEY AND HIS STOOGES ARE GONE….

  51. ac – you said: “YOUR RIGHT ABOUT BEING 1 MAJOR PIECE AWAY FROM BEING A CONTENDER.ANR ITS A COACH”

    I asked: “So you really really really think that the PLAYER ROSTER AS IS, is a stanely cup roster?”

    Care to answer that for everyone? Or were you just talking out your @ss?

  52. Joe
    where you reading/hearing that?

    acdaviddc
    I agree; Sundins’ talent will be swallowed whole by this system(sic)

  53. Voice of Reason on

    If you really need to make room for Sundin, and wonder how the lineup would work, here goes:

    Waive Kalinin…bring up Fahey as extra D-man ($1.5 net)

    Trade Prucha for any draft pick or a Minor Leaguer ($1.6M)

    Send Korpikowski down since he has options ($1.1)

    Sign Sundin for the remaining $4M (if he’ll accept it)

    Proposed lines:

    Naslund Sundin Sjostrom (all countrymen)
    Dawes Gomez Callahan
    Dubi Drury Zherdev
    Voros Betts Orr

    Fritsche extra forward

    Redden Girardi
    Staal Roszival
    Mara Potter

    Fahey extra D

    Lundquist/Valiquette

  54. LETS PUT IT THIS WAY I WOULD RATHER KEEP THIS ROSTER AND FIRE RENNEY,THEN MAKE TRADES AND KEEP HIM…
    YOU LETS TAKE A POLL WHO AGREES OR DISAGREES???
    BET I WIN

  55. no matter how much i love Aves, there is no way i would give away Rozy. Honestly what the heck was the point of signing him this offseason if you’re gonna trade him?

  56. acdaviddc i totally disagree, This team is like borderline horrible. Stop with your Renney bashing, this happens every season. the team goes through tough times…

  57. “ESPN reporting rumors of a trade with Dallas and the Rangers that would send Rozsival to Dallas, and Avery directly to Hartford. Rozsival’s 5 mil would go to Dallas and Avery’s 4 million would be buried in the minors and not held against our cap. ”

    That IS crazy.

    But let’s think about it. He WOULD go directly to Htfd. That part is a fact.

    There’s nothing saying that he has to even be in the lineup. They don’t even have to stitch a jersey for him really.

    THEN, at the end of the season, Dolan could just buy out the rest of his contract.

    BUT…what I’d like to know, is the cap-impact that would have. I’ve spent my fair share of time reading the CBA, but this is that “one-off” situation.

    So in a perfect world…

    dallas could take the $ off their cap.

    It wouldn’t impact ours.

    We could use the room that moving rozy would create to bring in sundin.

    Avery would go to htfd for the season.

    He could be bought out at the end.

    And it wouldn’t effect our cap.

    I don’t think the last part is the case. And if it’s not, it’s the worst move the NYR could make since drafting jessiman before a list of future nhl all-stars.

  58. Kaspar,

    It’s under the “dallas bosses discuss Avery options” link on the ESPN.com NHL page. No confirmation as of yet, just pandering right now, but it makes total sense. Dallas wants to unload him like no other, so they’re going to have to eat crap to get rid of him. That crap being Rozy’s 5 mil/4 year deal. If I understand this correctly, Avery goes to Hartford and as long as hes not on the Ranger’s roster, his salary doesn’t go against our cap. I don’t know if he can be called up at any point or not, maybe no more than 10 games, which if is the case, could really come in handy for injuries down the line. The bottom line is though we erase 5 million off our cap. Sather could then make a viable offer to ruin the team, ugh, I mean sign Sundin

  59. Beer Me,

    Seeing how the Rangers have had the track record lately for wanting “good” influences in Hartford to make sure the prospects don’t start to develop bad habits, I can’t see him being sent there. That being said, I could totally see them sending him to Charlotte and letting him rot away there.

  60. Avery also has a no trade clause though. Wonder if it is a full no trade or if he can give a list of teams he’d want to be dealt to.

  61. MAKO,
    I thought Gomez’s no trade clause was less strict- I think he chooses three teams he doesn’t want to go to before the season starts and the Rangers can trade him anywhere else..

    If that was the case- I’d love to get rid of him and get a legit top 6 WINGER(preferably right handed)- even if we have to include a prospect of something.. We could take sundin for two years. and then I think in a couple of years that Dubinsky/Anisimov would be a pretty good tandem upfront for the first two center positions. But that’s if everyone develops like they’re suppose.

  62. New Newman and Lohan, I’m with you guys. I didn’t feel anything when we scored or got scored on. When Crabb scored I just said, “another first nhl goal against for a new guy!” When we scored in OT I just said oh well.

    I almost was rooting for Renney to be humiliated. I’m developing a hatred of all things Renney.

  63. More reason that rozy to dallas is a viable rumor.

    They traded Boucher to pitt.

    Zubov is an old-broken down version of his former stellar self.

  64. PS. Lohan, New line combos are lucky to make it through and entire game? How about an entire period?? LOL!!

  65. jason, that’s a great point. But the only way (if I’m the GM) I accept that deal, is if Avery never even sees the fuggin lockerroom in htfd. In other words…just there on paper. He can go pour coffee at vogue for all I care. Ain’t my $.

  66. ChrisS
    You are right about that. But doesnt he have to play for the Rangers for a couple of years for that? I dont know…

  67. Observation: The more Pemoco opens his mouth, the less knowledgeable he sounds.

    Comparing Betts to Strudwick on contributions to the team and need for that player around the league. Hahaha…a joke.

    Someone said it: Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it and remove all doubt.

    We have the #1 PK in the league. Betts is on the first PK unit and gets the most ice time on the PK. He is probably near the top of the league in shots blocked by forwards. He is probably in the bottom 25% in terms of amount of $ being paid.

    YEAH PEMOCO…EASILY REPLACEABLE. RIGHT.

  68. MAKO,

    According to NHLSCAP.com
    “Scott Gomez, NYR – NTC [limited; at the end of the each season Gomez gives the Rangers a list of 3 teams he will not accept a trade to”

    So i don’t know how accurate it is..but i figured it was noteworthy.

  69. MAKO that the genius’ problem, he signed these anchors. There are teams to be named, he needs to get that list. Maybe these ‘stars’ would get the message, retire somewhere else.

  70. As much as I’d love Avery back he’s now tainted goods…and he will bring scrutiny to every little thing on the ice…i.e. more penalties called, rightly or wrongly…

  71. I know gomez was thinking about signing with LA when he was a FA- i think it would be wise to trade him for Frolov or O’sullivan or something like that

  72. It’s unrealistic to assume there will be any big trades or major moves. Keep in mind that signing Sundin may preclude the theam from making any late trades at the deadline. Kovalchuck might be available and he would be someone to trade for to make a legit run.

    I personally think it’s time to get rid of the repetitious dead wood in Prucha, Dawes, Fritche and the rest of the non contributers. But I also think they should consider including Dubinsky and Callahan and definelty Voros. As hard as Callahan plays he really isn’t a true scoring threat and Voros is a wannabe size guy, but he’s a puss.

    This team desperately needs size and scoring. They are as soft and talentless as I have seen.

  73. ChrisS

    Thanks for that. I knew something that had to do with the years he played at the teams he can pick. Some of the terms of these contracts are just downright bizzare.

  74. “I almost was rooting for Renney to be humiliated. I’m developing a hatred of all things Renney.”

    Hey, Prucha25, if you’re going to root for the team to lose, why even watch the game?

    I think even the harshest of critics in here root for us to win every night.

    If you’re not, I certainly question your fanhood.

    Don’t bring that attitude into the building, especially in my section. You’ll be boo’d out of your seat.

  75. its a little disturbing seeing fans rooting against a team that is (I believe) second in the conference. All teams go through bad streaks, no need to be a bitch and whine about it incessantly. Makes me embarassed to be a ranger fan sometimes the way some people are.

  76. Newman-
    I totally agree. Unfortunately Betts has no offensive upside and the casual hockey fan only judges players by their scoring prowess. If the other 3 lines picked up for Betts then no one would notice. Since they don’t score then Betts’s lack of scoring becomes an issue, but his defensive ability is irreplaceable…

  77. Fitzy and Brandon-

    You guys make alot of sense and it’s hard to disagree with you guys, but keep in mind that those guys you are speaking of are the same idiots cutting you off on the road, not saying thank you when you hold the door for them and generally being rude negative people. Unfortunately New York gets its reputation for a reason and surely deserves it. Don’t expect much out of people like that… Leave them behind…

  78. Voice of Reason on

    If the Roszival to Dallas for Avery thing is real, I believe the old adage,”Desperate people do desperate things” applies.

    By now Sean Avery realized he messed up—but good. He will likely HAVE to be contrite regarding what he says for a very long time.

    If he can show that he’s become a model citizen (after counseling likely), he’ll be back, and embraced. Where better to do that than in Hartford for the next several weeks?

  79. Rmant you raise a very interesting point….getting rid of the deadwood.

    Here is why I think Renney is either crazy (get rid of him) or just trying to play the hand he has been dealt (feel a bit bad for him): He keeps trying new combos with Cally or Voros or Sjo or Prucha or Dawes or Fritsche or Korpi as if, Voila!, we will find our magical player to fill the slot on the 2nd line.

    Hello! Anyone home? We have too many 3rd liners. We have said this since day 1 (a lot of us here). So he keeps trying to put a guy with Drury or Gomer or Dubi and magically hope they will turn into that 2nd line player overnight. It’s not going to happen. Not one of those guys is going to get there.

    So do we fault Renney for trying to light a spark and catch lightning in a bottle? Or should they just houseclean and get rid of 6 crappy players in exchange for 3 good players?

    I don’t know the answer. But I also think if us yokels on this site know that we have chicken s**t to try and make chicken salad with, don’t all the other teams know this?

    Therein lies the conundrum.

    And guys, enough of the mental masturabtion of, “Here is what my lines would be.” I mean, I guarantee Sather isn’t calling you to take the reins anytime soon.

  80. MAKO,
    not a problem..

    Fitzy,
    It’s not that were rooting against them par say- we’re being realistic- not only are the Rangers not a cup contender right now But they are more and more crippled by four major contracts that will not doubt suffocate us more if the cap goes down. We’re looking out for our youth.

    I was suppose to be studying for the last two hours.. and now I’m basically screwed for my final.. Everyone have a good day and enjoy your days of speculation!

  81. Brandon-100% right. I think some of the a-holes on here really want the Rangers to lose so they can come on and say, “I told you so.”

    AND-most of your (everybody) trade proposals–TOTALLY BLOW AND WON’T HAPPEN!!

  82. 22 – it was the same last year about this time…or really in jan, when we were in 11th in the East. the “I told you so’s” will never go away.

  83. “So do we fault Renney for trying to light a spark and catch lightning in a bottle? Or should they just houseclean and get rid of 6 crappy players in exchange for 3 good players?”

    newman – I think you, along with many here have answered what you guys think is ‘right’.

    You should actually be CREDITING renney for making this sub-par roster competitive in the 1st place. Not even considering that it’s been about 70 calendar days that the NYR have been in 1st place in the Atlantic div. I’m still trying to research the last time they’ve spent that long on top.

    On that topic, the NYR are the only team in the Atlantic that hasn’t lost 3 games in a row.

  84. I should start my own site, because people repeat the crazy ideas I mention months ahead of time, and then spit them out as gospel.

    Dubinsky is no Mike Richards. But when I said trade him 20 games ago, I was an idiot. But do not fear, Dubi will not be looking for big$$$$ in his next deal. 10 goal scorers do not break the bank. Ever.

  85. doodie machetto on

    I don’t want Sundin. Why trade away anything (unless it’s Rozsi’s or Redden’s bloated contracts) for a guy that won’t win us the cup (this team ain’t winning anything) and will be gone next year?

    Someone mentioned the Rozsi/Avery trade. I’d be all over that. Except no buying him out. I don’t want the cap hit. Bury him in the ECHL so he doesnt corrupt our prospects in Hartford. If he doesn’t want to show, suspend him and then you don’t even have to pay him. Also, no more Rozsi and no more ridiculous contract.

    Also, think about what you can do with that cap space! We could trade Sean Avery’s contract (since that’s all it is) to Chicago, along with Prucha and Kalinin (about 7 million total space for us) for Khabibulin’s contract and a first round pick for taking it off of their hands. And with the cap space Chicago would open up, they could sign Sundin, whom they are very interested in, and we would be getting a 1st round pick for Prucha, Kalinin, and Rozsival.

    Tell me that isn’t the best idea you’ve heard so far?

  86. doodie,

    It’s a great idea if this were NHL09 and also if Avery, Prucha and Kalinin were worth anything in this league.

  87. doodie machetto on

    RETRACTION, I think you meant all season. I just assumed Pittsburgh and the Isles have because theyve been sliding.

    Also, I don’t think Renney has done a terrible job either. And coming from a notorious Renney basher, I think that means something. Pearn, on the other hand, not so good. He sucks.

  88. Thanks guys. Glad we’re on the same page with that one.

    It’s one thing to want Renney fired or players traded, but it’s another to root agains them team.

    It’s not like this is a 27th ranked team and you’re hoping for a lotto pick. We are still first in the division, even if it doesn’t feel like it.

    And, despite our obvious holes, we’re 1-2 players away from being a contender. So, with the right trade or signing, we could look totally different.

    If you’re rooting for your team to fail in December, while they still sit a top the division, you’re probably someone who doesn’t have many friends and definitely needs a litlte love in their life.

  89. Beer me, what a joker you are, where were these comments about a “sub-par” roster a month ago! Not a peep about the lousy players then! it’s all about Renny for you, much more than for the welfare of the team as a whole. and you say other people are posting out of their @sses??

  90. doodie,

    The Devils lost 4 in a row between 11/8 and 11/14

    The Flyers lost 3 in a row between 11/2 and 11/8

  91. doodie machetto on

    jason, its not about the players. Way to totally miss the point of what I was saying. We would be getting the first round pick for giving Chicago an extra 4 million in cap space so they could sign Mats Sundin. Not for the players.

    You wouldn’t even need to include Avery in the trade at all. It could just be Prucha and Kalinin for Khabibulin and the first rounder.

  92. doodie machetto on

    jason, you missed my follow up post. I originally thought he meant currently on a 3 game losing streak, but then realized he meant 3 consecutive losses during the whole season.

  93. brandon, I agree it should never get so bad for Renny critics to root against the team. and I discredit those who do that as much as you do. but to be honest I understand it. I feel their pain.

  94. I really don’t think Renney can be faulted for this teams play. At most he could bench certain players for their inadequate play, but who can he replace them with? It’s like getting rid of the square peg that you were trying to fit in the round hole and replacing it with another square peg. It doesn’t work.

    The team needs an overhaul. Has anyone noticed that Renney needs to FORCE his players to get to the net and STAY there??? That’s where the money is. How many of you would walk right past where you know a bag full of money was sitting?? This team is soft and has NO b@lls and is refusing to pay the price to win…

  95. Voice of Reason

    “If he can show that he’s become a model citizen (after counseling likely), he’ll be back, and embraced. Where better to do that than in Hartford for the next several weeks?”

    Siberia – thats where!

    I wouldn’t want him within 100 miles of Harford or Charlotte.

  96. doodie machetto on

    jason, no worries. do you get what I was saying about the cap space having the value as opposed to the players? I think we might not even need to trade both of them.

    How much space do we have available? Also, what is Rozsi’s cap hit?

  97. doodie machetto on

    “I wouldn’t want him within 100 miles of Harford or Charlotte.”

    Charlotte is fine. If we’re that desperate that we need to look to Charlotte for players, we might as well play Avery.

  98. doodie,

    I get what you’re saying.

    I don’t know how much space we have right now, somewhere around a million? Maybe slightly more or less.

    Rozsival’s hit is $5 mil.

  99. Something I don’t understand.

    Why did people who support Renney now and cite roster issues as our problem have to point out personnel issues in October when we were winning??? I don’t get it.

    Sometimes you need to see how a team will take form.

    At the beginning it looked like this team could very well be a vintage 95-2000 Devils type squad.

    Fast forward to the present, they’re not.

    So, after analyzing 30+ games, we’re able to make those decisions.

    My point is, it doesn’t matter if someone did/did not talk about personnel in October. It’s obvious NOW that it is the problem.

  100. I think Ronald. I mean, the guy is always happy and can make balloon animals and such. The King is very very creepy. I think the commercials are hilarious, but he seems like one sneaky SOB. One minute he will be coming in with eggnormous sammich, and the next he will be sneaking it in to you wife when you are taking a shower in the morning. I am not down with that.

  101. “I really don’t think Renney can be faulted for this teams play.”

    Laughable. For no other reason that when they play well, all the Renney droolers can’t give him enough credit for his brilliance.

    Look, if the Renney detractors can’t have it both ways, how in the world can the Renney droolers expect to?

  102. Oh! *Weinman:*
    ‘Drury has never seemed comfortable there (others have said that Brandon Dubinsky could play wing, and while it’s true Dubinsky has been dreadful on faceoffs this year, he’s still a prototypical pivot to me).’

    http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20092NYRSASAll&sort=faceOffWinPctg&viewName=summary

    Just so EVERYONE knows, “dreadful on faceoffs” [DOF] Dubinsky is 51.8% while Sam’s Boy Drury [SBD] is 48.4% on faceoffs. I love how some people love Drury. No offense (pun), but if Drury’s real stats made it to the papers people would realize what he actually is. I don’t mind the player, I dislike the blind love for him and Sather’s ba-jillion dollar contract.

    *BTW:* Drury’s on pace for a season 39 points!! hahaha…I don’t even know what to say to that.

  103. Fitzy, Brandon, Rmant:

    Do you guys go to the Garden with your parents, with balloons and with your faces painted with the Ranger crest?
    Do you try to get your faces on the big screen between periods? Do you even know who won the game when it’s over?

    You are the ideal Ranger fans for the Dolans! They love you guys – you’re willing to take 11 years of incompetence from Sather, a clueless coach who is impeding the team’s progress, and a coaching staff that can’t get 5 talented players to score a power play goal.

    Dolan wants you to keep bending over and asking for more… which is exactly what you are doing by supporting this horribly-run organization despite all its’ flaws.

    Some of us can see that the players are better than this. We can see that a good coaching staff could improve the team greatly. We see Renney for the lousy coach that he is. And yes, we want changes made to fix the big problem.

    Renney would have the 1984 Edmonton Oilers playing for the tie. He’s clueless, stubborn and he’d have been fired long ago if not for Lundqvist saving his ass.

    I became a Ranger fan in 1970 and I’m TIRED of this organization’s screw-ups. With the exception of 1994, they are going on 68 years of ineptitude!!! Isn’t that enough? Don’t you want to see the Rangers respected like the better teams in the league? The only way to do that is to clean out the management team. Dolan isn’t going anywhere, but everyone else starting with Sather on down, needs to be shown the door.

    “People like that” are the ones that get changes made by showing their displeasure with incompetence. “Fire Renney” needs to become the new “Potvin Su*ks” chant at the Garden.
    We are the people who the Dolans hate. BUT we are the true Ranger fans.

  104. Who Needs Lohan on

    Nasty 1,
    I hear ya…it all depends on your primary concern…if its your kids well being I think you have to go with the King. I dont trust any dude who wears makeup around my kids. On the other hand, the King definitely has got to have a bad side. Id suggest hiding your valuables and keeping the wife at a distance, have her plan a book club night or something….

  105. doodie – you got it. meant ‘so far this season’ in terms of losing 3. To me, that says something about the resolve of the team. Able to identify at least ‘just enough’ to stop the slide, and use the mistakes as a lesson. Ease of schedule has helped that in some aspects, no doubt.

    wd – you just read what you want to read. and unless you’d like to tell us what name you were posting under back in sept (when you were not posting as wd40), you would have missed me saying that I thought cally skates like a cat in a bathtub, I had high hopes(like everyone else) that dawes would breakthrough this season(and has thus far let us down), that prucha shoulda been dealt long ago(which i’ve repeated several times since), that there’s no question that this team is made up of nine 3rd line fwds and three 1-2 line fwds. But you keep reading what you want, and thinking everything revolves around coaching, and that every loss is a direct reflection of coaching, and that every win should be credited to goaltending, as opposed to limiting quality scoring chances, which IS a result of playing a sound defensive game. WHICH…there is no doubt they have gotten away from lately, and is again headed back in the right direction. Which IS a coachable aspect of the game. And if you want to talk about the team as a whole, I think they’re a few moves away from being the favorite to win the division. I’d be more than happy with that. Regardless of what the playoffs bring.

  106. HAHA, exactly! And that just isn’t cool. But on the other hand, with Ronald, the next thing you know the doorbell will be ringing and in walk The Fry guys, Grimmace, the Hamburgler, Mayor McCheese, and Officer Big Mac. I just see things getting out of hand either way.

  107. I vote Fire Renny

    No hatred of the guy he just has baggage now; allstars, HOF’s and cupwinners cant play for him…all you pro-Renney guys are quick to point that out; I’ve been reading Drury is passionless, Gomez is an idiot, Shanny shot too much, Jagr was a time-hog …on it on it goes…responsibility falls on the leader…thats Renny

  108. Who Needs Lohan on

    Yeah, and we all know that Ronald must have at least something to do with the Grimace’s default face!

  109. I’d leave my (unborn) children with Ronald. At least you’d know they’ll just be fondled a little.

    With the King…he seems like the kind of guy that would do some creepy sh!t. Like make the kid get a sunburn, then peel off the skin and make fuggin soup with it or something.

  110. rocketnyr you are obviously not a real fan. Half of the Garden doesnt know who Potvin is. The losers chant dumb stuff for attention. Watch the game thats it.

  111. Who Needs Lohan on

    Nasty1, i still havent stopped laughing at that last post…my assistant is looking at me like I am nuts!

  112. “AVERY CANNOT GO TO CHARLOTTE. His NTC includes not being sent to the ECHL.

    Beer me! what? was good ol Aves planning ahead or something?

  113. Who Needs Lohan on

    Sorry about the tangent, I just couldnt read any more bickering about the NYR, my indifference has now moved on to this blog. Figured Id start a better conversation….it worked!

  114. So the Devils have had a good sampling of games without Dear Marty.

    What is the story? Is he a great goalie? Can we tell now that Weekes and Clem. have had games to play in? Is it the defensive style that makes him good (better than he really is)? Is he an average goalie in a good defensive system?

    I hate the Devils!

    And why have the NYR played 6 more games than a division rival at this point in the season?

    Sorry – too many questions.

  115. If they are dealing with Dallas for Avery, they should ask them to throw in Lundqvist, the other. The Dallas situation shows why you don’t have two GMs. Two guys going into two different directions — the old guard there Modano and Turco never wanted Avery from the start, they never tried to integrate him into the team. The guy can be dumb, but he’s not Mike Danton who deserves to be locked up.

  116. LMFAO!!!!

    I am having more fun with this debate than talking about the same old crap. Sorry, I am just burnt out with it. I just want to WIN! I do want the team to get better and play better all around, but I want them to win. Plain and simple. I understand everyone’s concerns and wants for this team, and to each their own. I am a DIE HARD fan, and I want this team to get two points every night. Unfortunately that is just not going to happen. I will say that we are not first in our Division on sheer luck alone. Yeah, we don’t always win pretty, but we still have a boat load of wins. I totally agree to a degree with what people say on here. I think we could take a little of this posters ideas and opinions and sprinkle them with a little of that posters opinions and come up with something that everyone could agree on. Like a big old bowl of Diarrhea Chowder. Ummmm, Diarrhea Chowder, sounds like something the King would try to make people eat.

  117. Send Renney and Pearn to the minors and bring in Shanney and Sundin as head coach and assistant coach respectively. done and done

  118. rocket – I really don’t care who thinks they’re ‘more of a fan’ or a ‘better fan’ for doing this or that. To me, it sounds like you’ve lost having PRIDE in your team.

    When I put on my NYR gear, it’s not for their performance vs ATL, or their performance this season, who’s on the top line, who’s behind the bench, or even the cup in ’94.

    It’s because I’m a proud fan of the NYR. Win, lose, or shoot-out loss.

  119. Only an amateur hockey fan would give or blame a coach for their players. true, many coaches can squeeze blood from a stone and there are different ways to do that. But no one gives Renney credit for this team. The fact is that they are a sub par offensive team in an effective defensive scheme (which Renney is in fact resposible for). It isn’t the coaches fault when the team refuses to shoot the puck when they have an open lane.

  120. Rmant, how do you think Renney measures up in the managing on-ice player personnel department, specifically w/ the PP????????

  121. Nasty- You are wrong, we don’t have boat loads of wins, we have boat loads of shootout wins. If you subtract them we are just over .500. With the goaltending we have that truly is shameful. And I am actually very positive about this team but facts are facts.

  122. Fat Billy Mays on

    pemoco –

    Holy daz-ola, I’m not sure what kind of crack you’re smoking but Blair Betts is the one guy who this team can count on to always give 110%, be defensively responsible, and block shots. Guys like that are HARD TO FIND. Yeah, he has hands made of stone and couldn’t score if the other team was just using a shooter tutor, and yeah, the other teams all know that. And no, he has no size either, but he’s got moxie, and as far as coach Renney (and I) is concerned, that’s what really counts around here. Give me a player with moxie over a 30-goal scorer anyday of the week and I’ll produce Cups. That argument poignant enough for you?

  123. I don’t hate Renney. The only thing you can fault him for is being too loyal to players. Rmant, I agree with what you just said to an extent. If he threw the “stars” on this team in to the doghouse a few times, he could then make them shoot the puck, because they would fear the embarrassment of being benched or scratched and not play. Even a game or two could be a big enough wake up call for some players. I don’t think this is enough to fire the guy, but it is definitely a flaw of his.

  124. “what? was good ol Aves planning ahead or something?”

    Kaspar – Not for me to say, I’m already on record of thinking the guy’s a joke. And that if the owners of NHL franchises care about the league, they should let him rot in europe. But to be honest, I don’t think avery cares enough about the game to even consider it.

    Just my opinion…I’ve met the guy, and he’s a d!ck, but it’s not enough for me to know his thought process.

    That’s for his new shrink to figure out.

  125. The Rangers give up half a dozen odd man rushes a game man!

    What kind of system is that? I beleive its called “The Lundquist system”

    They’ve been scoring less and less every year; 3 goals is an outburst..AND IT DOESNT MATTER WHO PLAYS HERE

    We keep shuffling them in and out and Renny is never the one responsible

    Amazing

  126. Rmant, funny, the last time I checked the stats of the new nhl, and I looked in the wins for the NYR category, it says 19 wins, and not shootout wins. If we go back to playing the old way and take away the shootout, then come on back to me and bring the same argument and I will tell you that you are 100% correct. But as long as this is how the NHL is recording wins and losses, I will tell you that you are wrong. For now or until the change things, two points is two points no matter how you get them.

  127. Who Needs Lohan on

    “But on the other hand, with Ronald, the next thing you know the doorbell will be ringing and in walk The Fry guys, Grimmace, the Hamburgler, Mayor McCheese, and Officer Big Mac. I just see things getting out of hand either way.”

    Sorry to be redundant but that was the funniest thing ever said on this blog, just wanted to make sure it got its proper due…

    What if we through Long John Silver into the debate…..hows that for a curveball?

  128. Rmant writes: “The fact is that they are a sub par offensive team in an effective defensive scheme (which Renney is in fact resposible for).”

    Effective defensive scheme?? Are you joking?? Blind?? Do you know how many odd man rushes this team has allowed this season?? How no one punishes the opposition in front of the net?? How defensive coverage in their own zone constantly breaks down, because they do not know what to do when they don’t have the puck??

    This is what kills me about Renney apologists. They point to a defensive scheme that DOES NOT EXIST. It is LAUGHABLE.

  129. Why don’t we give credit where credit is due and not give any to Renney for the Ranger’s “system.” I think the defense first, rely on the goalie deal has already been perfected by those dirtbags over in Jersey. I despise the man because he heads up the Devs, but it’s Lou’s system, not Renney.

  130. Nasty- Last time I checked you can’t win shootouts in the playoffs and that’s all that matters. The regular season only prepares you and seeds you for the playoff run. And those you have to win on the ice. This team can barely win on the ice, unless it’s a 2-1 squeeker… So don’t quote me league rules….

  131. nasty – right on brotha. 2pts is 2pts…and it’s only December. The argument WILL be brought to you about no shootouts in the playoffs. Valid? sure. But this is 30 games in. Still got 50 to go!

  132. Thing is, Kaspar, if you’re gonna give up 5 odd man rushes a game and 2 of them are winding up behind Hank, fine. But then those odd-man rushes have to be coming about because defensemen and forwards are moving quickly through the neutral zone, getting the puck deep and putting loads of pressure on the opposition, getting their own odd-man rushes and scoring off a bunch of those. What the Rangers cannto be (but are) is this team of guys playing a “defensive” system who give the puck up in the neutral zone, don’t get back into defensive coverage at all, and on top of it cannot even change lines efficiently enough to avoid odd man rushes the other way.

    I mean really, never mind practicing the PP. Practice changing lines!

  133. Other than last night, every OT this season has been the Renney system… fall back and hope for the shootout..

    Look at our biggest OT (playoff) disappointments… the team was unprepared and lost!

    FIRE RENNEY!

  134. ctrain

    During the Devils’ Cup years, Brodeur faced three odd man rushes a month. Lundqvist often faces three odd man rushes before the first TV timeout of the night.

  135. Lohan, thank you for the credit on the Ronald thing. I was laughing when I wrote it.

    As for shootouts. Who is to say that we lose a game in the playoffs that goes to OT? You never know what happens. Yes it takes goals to win in the playoffs, but more than that is takes superb goaltending and team defense. Especially when you go in to OT.

  136. Hey guys, I’m planning to head over to the Toy drive at Bryant Park today and I was wondering if anybody knows whether the Rangers who are appearing will sign items you bring (Poster, Helmet) or doo they just sign pictures provided to you by them at the event.

    As for Sundin, If we can get Sundin and Avery and it only costs us Rosy, Prucha and Kiorpi (in the minors) i say why not.

  137. Hey Renney lovers – don’t forget about bench minors.. Rangers are tied for 3rd for most in NHL (5). That’s a reflection of the coaches ability to manage the game and his players.

  138. Nasty…

    Come back to US during the playoffs when there is no shootout. All those shootout wins during the season mean less than nothing then, because they only allow sub-par teams to look better than they really are.

    The shootout is a gimmick that will block some quality teams from getting into the playoffs even though they are better than other teams who happen to have a good shootout record.

    In the Rangers’ case it’s beneficial, because they are much worse than their record shows. But is it fair? Not to me.

  139. Look man, I am not going to sit here and try and convince anyone that I am right. I always say, in my opinion and so on and so forth. You see things your way and I see them mine. So be it. I could give Grimmace’s purple c*ck who agrees with me.

  140. “This is what kills me about Renney apologists. They point to a defensive scheme that DOES NOT EXIST. It is LAUGHABLE.”

    preach, dewey. spot on.

    Peter, good post by you too.

  141. You make me laugh man. “Come back to US during the playoffs when there is no shootout.”

    “US”

    Oh no mommy, the cool kids aren’t including me anymore. They won’t let me sit with them at lunch and shoot spitballs at Mr. Ungaretta anymore. What should I do mommy.

    You are too funny my friend.

    I won’t come back to anyone. I wasn’t looking for approval from you, I was just stating my opinion.

  142. Nasty,

    It is an “us” vs. “them” thing on this board now.

    Sadly, I thought we were all Rangers fans, guess not.

  143. On the term of bench minors, a Jacques Lemaire coached team has 1 more bench minor than us, should he be fired? Is he an awful coach?

  144. I always say look at the eyebrows, but I prefer hard wood floors anyway.

    Hey man, I don’t care who thinks what about this team. A Ranger fan is a Ranger fan. Agree with me, disagree with me. Whatever.

  145. People need to get over Avery. He’s not what this team needs, by any means, and Glen Sather is not touching him with Kevin Lowe’s d–k.

    On another note, I’m so fed up of reading the letter perfect quotes from the rangers on showing up for work, preparing, playing hard, coming out energized. These guys all talk the talk. Shut up and do it. Play hard. Score goals. Make some hits. Then shut up and do it again.

    They really did learn something from Shanny, Mr. “I’m happy to play less time” as I eat up way too many minutes and become exhausted.

    Okay, sorry for the vent.

    Go Rangers.

  146. “During the Devils’ Cup years, Brodeur faced three odd man rushes a month. Lundqvist often faces three odd man rushes before the first TV timeout of the night.”

    Well said Gresh

    watch the game 6 coverage of the ’94 NYR-NJD series and even in its infancy; lemaires trap system is mentioned and so is the fact that the Devils had not given up an odd-man rush for 2-3 games; Bill Clement comments on it twice during the braodcast…and the scary thing is it got even better ( or worse depending on how you feel about the trap) as the late 90’s wore on

    Danyecko-Stevens-Neids cannot be compared to the NYR stick checking dee men

  147. Yuck! By “hard wood” floor, I didn’t mean “HARD WOOD.” I just meant that I don’t like carpet.

    :)

  148. The shootout/Playoff topic IS a debatable topic.

    Senario:

    NYR win 20 games via shootout in a season
    NJD win 19 games via shootout in same season

    Rangers finish 8th, devils finish 9th.

    Still matter how you get your points?

  149. The shootout/Playoff topic IS a debatable topic.

    Senario:

    NYR win 20 games via shootout in a season
    NJD win 19 games via shootout in same season

    Rangers finish 8th, devils finish 9th.

    Still matter how you get your points…in the REGULAR SEASON?

  150. Hey Rocket,

    If you’re tired of it, STOP watching them and STOP pretending to be a fan.

    If you haven’t noticed, it’s a young man’s game out there. Just because you’re going through a mid-life crisis and probably have been tapping the same ass for the last 25+ doesn’t mean we have to listen to you’re incessant whining and non-stop negativity.

    This isn’t the 70’s anymore. If you think “rooting against the Rangers is going to change anything, I got news for you, you’re living in a hippy purple haze. There’s a waiting list of season ticket holders for the Rangers that’s over 10,000 long. Do you think they care if you stop coming to games?

    No.

    At the end of the day, some of us still love this team, for better or for worse.

    And since you’re “so old” and have been to “so many games” and watched this team for “so many years”, you should know that this is sports. Whenever you signed on, you signed on for life. If you don’t like it, take the Devils on as your team. They’re real easy to watch. They’ll play average all year, make the playoffs and bow out first round quietly.

    Opinions are one thing, wanting people fired or trades are even fine, but rooting against your own team while they still have a LEGIT shot to do something special is downright ignorant.

    That’s the kind of negativity no one needs.

  151. So you assume that if we went to 9 OTs in the playoffs we would lose all 9 of them?

    How is that logical?

    It takes 2 teams to go to OT, it takes 2 teams to go to a shoot out.

    Who’s to say we wouldn’t go 9-0? It’s just as likely as 0-9.

  152. If “Ifs and whats were beers and nuts” we could have a party.

    So party on party people. Party on.

    Let’s Go Rangers!

  153. Who Needs Lohan on

    i dont mind a little Hitler stash myself, just so you can tell the are indeed old enough!

  154. Rangers sucked lasy year in OT in the playoffs. 0-2 if i remember correctly. 0-3 in their last 3, which is depressing.

    Im happy they managed to win last night, especially in OT, but still, they let THAT team stick with them the WHOLE GAME. That’s sad. Vally saved the day, if not for him, there would be some major crying going on.

    I hope Nyr rapes the Canes to hell n back, and Mats decides to play here. Rozi NEEDS to get traded, and Pruchs does as well, so he goes to a team that actually wants to play him.

    Eh, maybe the Brat Hawks are still interested in him.

    That was a cool story aboot them. Good stuff.

    Anyway, dump Rozi, Pruchs, Danny F, send Korp down to the minors, and that’s that. Trade Kalinin if possible. He just flat out sucks.

    I thought Redden was alright last night, managed to pick up 3 assists, and was a +3, which is always good. Besides missing on that shot, that was the only major mistake i remember from last night, unless im forgetting something. I don’t even know if you can call that a mistake, sometimes it happens, waddya gonna do ?

    I like Potter, and i wanna see him play in Kal’s place, or Rozi, but then again, maybe getting a couple of D-men in a trade is the right way to go. But at the same time, you gotta start somewhere, so who knows, maybe he’s ready for the full time job.

    I still want Tootoo, but it wont happen.

    As for Aves, i bet my right nut that he retires if the Stars don’t want him back. Like i said a while ago, these days it seems he’s more interested in Fashion than Pucks. Its kinda gay, but he was banging Cuthbert, so he gets a pass, granted she is the new Puck Bunny, but he should still get points for that.

    She has some bad taste, Phaneuf, Komisarek, Aves, they look like Lord of the Rings characters. Who knows, maybe Bob has a shot with her.

  155. Hey stop with the Negativity sermons already; could go to Blue Shirt Bulletin If I wanted to be or read scoldedings..its just hockey and we’re just fans on a blog; I watch the news too and I dont like much of what I see…If someone thinks he’s helping NYR by writing that Renney should be fired so be it…theres no proof sitting here saying “think positively” works either…70 frickin years 1 cup!!

  156. If the Rangers do nothing, they will finish with 102-107 points. If they finish second or better in the conference, or if they maintain home ice for the first two rounds, the chances are better than even that they make it to the conference finals.

    That is with doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

  157. Hey stop with the Negativity sermons already; could go to Blue Shirt Bulletin If I wanted to be or read scoldings..its just hockey and we’re just fans on a blog; I watch the news too and I dont like much of what I see…If someone thinks he’s helping NYR by writing that Renney should be fired so be it…theres no proof sitting here saying “think positively” works either…70 frickin years 1 cup!!

  158. doodie machetto on

    “But on the other hand, with Ronald, the next thing you know the doorbell will be ringing and in walk The Fry guys, Grimmace, the Hamburgler, Mayor McCheese, and Officer Big Mac. I just see things getting out of hand either way.”

    My fiancee used to wet herself when she was little whenever she saw the McDonalds “Moon Man.”

  159. “Amazing how the Atlanta fans come dressed as empty seats”

    Ahahaha, that was funny.

    Best part of that game was hearing the “Lets Go Rangers” chant, then the ONE little girl chanting “Wets Go Thwashars”

    That team needs to leave, and go to Kansas City, then Kovalchuk will definitely want out of there. If not already.

  160. “Its kinda gay, but he was banging Cuthbert, so he gets a pass, granted she is the new Puck Bunny, but he should still get points for that.”

    Ha! Good one Orr. I think you get a “Gay Pass for Life” if you’re hitting that.

  161. the place hasn’t changed lots of kids and young people that are BIG NYR fans. It’s going to be a looooong season.

  162. If Gomez and Dubinsky would step up their play, even slightly, so that they finished the year with 20+ goals instead of the 13+ goals they on pace for now, the Ranger’s would more or less easily win the division, almost certainly win the conference, and be a favorite to make it to the finals.

  163. It’s hard to imagine the proposed Avery/Rozsival rumour actually coming to fruition as it’s been discussed. At the end of the day the Rangers would:

    1) Lose a top pairing defenseman in Rozsival(debatable I know)
    2) Pay Avery on a buyout (2/3 of the deal or $7.75mn, which gets spread over 4 years against the cap)
    3) Net between the two you gain roughly $3.1mn in cap space over Rozsival’s remaining years (4 years)
    4) You have $1.9mn in cap space taken for a player not playing (4 years)
    5) You get nobody in return, assuming Avery goes to AHL

    It sounds like a bad deal to me. I also can’t believe that NHLPA wouldn’t have an issue with this either.

  164. brandon, you’re a scummy lowlife for attacking rocket personally about his age and the “tapping,” etc. Eff u.

  165. Rangers can’t take back Avery. Someone would have to clean up after Giannone wetting his pants.

  166. I’d take Avery back in a second but yeah, as constructed according to ESPN, that deal seems pointless. Assuming he’d even suit up, he’d spend the season floundering in Hartford, we’d lose a top defenseman on a team with guys like Kalinin and Redden suiting up, and you’d free up minimal cap space. I don’t see the logic in parting the seas for Mats Sundin.

  167. Brandon,

    I love people like you….. Someone that tells someone else that’s a fan of a team that they are fans of too how to “be a fan”. That’s ALSO ignorant.

    Brandon’s obviously never heard of wanting the “sh*t to hit the fan” or things to get worse before they could get better.

    A LOT of people want heads rolling. They want change. That’s usually how it works.

    Because usually most fans like you (and notice I did not put the word fans in parenthesis unlike someone like Brandon probably would because thinks he’s “above” that type of thinking. But you wont get that BS from me, Brandon. It doesn’t make you or rocketnyr any less of a fan for having different VIEWS) usuaslly don’t care enough to want change. They just see the record, the coach with a good vocabulary, and a team that WAS playing in over their heads. When the realists see’s this team for who they are. A good team with A LOT of flaws. (Mainly the coach)

    If you aren’t familiar with me, Brandon, let me explain:

    I don’t HATE Tom Renney. I think he’s a nice guy and a good coach. Good enough to get us back to respectability and the playoffs. But not good enough to get us to the next level.

    Assuming you were a fan in 1992-1993, Roger Neilson ALSO had a good record overall with the Rangers and one of the team’s most winningest coaches, like Tom Renney. But he was too defensive minded or had the wrong philosophy take to them to the cup. Like Tom Renney, they both have the wrong philosophy to take them to the next level or to a cup. This is when Messier had him fired, and the next season we got a great coach with the right philosophy.

    And please don’t respond with “well who do you want to be brought in” because if I named some coaches, you’d probably just say give the “that coach doesn’t cut it in the new NHL” excuse. That’s gotta be the worst excuse ever.

    When in fact Renney can’t coach his way out of a paper bag, and a guy.

    Back to what I was saying…..

    I appreciate your passion, Brandon, but saying that because someone wanted them to lose last night doesn’t make them any less of a fan.

    For instance, I wanted them to lose last night too!!! My reason was that before the game, Stan Fischler said that this was a “must win” and that if they didn’t win tonight, that there could be changes by Friday.”

    So essentially, I didn’t want them to lose, but after hearing that, I wanted them to lose. Could you imagine if they had lost to Atlanta? Instead we’re left with the same old propaganda. That they could now at least take something positive out of last night. Now if they had lost MAYBE they would’ve been forced to make ANY kind of change. Benching someone, call someone up from the minors. ANYTHING!!!

    Brandon, I appreciate your fandom of the Rangers, but saying stuff like “well you’re not a real fan if want them to lose” just looks childish and silly.

    Like I said before, it’s not because we want to see them lose, it’s because we want certain things to get worse before they can get better.

    I want the Rangers to win every game, but last night I just didn’t care if they lost or not. Is that so bad? One game where I didn’t care? And it’s not like I was upset when they won. But instead me being happy, last night I was just like “whatever”. I wasn’t upset they won though.

    Brandon, i’d appreciate aresponse.

    Sorry to everyone for the long post.

    Let me get off my soap box now.

    Let’s Go Rangers!!!

  168. with th economy meltdown it seems a few teams won’t be able to play the “lets get Sundin for the Rangers” so sather is limited….

    most teams wont be able to afford our *uck ups (atlanta, phoenix, tampa, florida, nashville, buffalo, islanders, st louis, anaheim)

    others have no cap space to take a rosival (calgary, chicago, boston, detroit, edmonton, montreal, jersey, philly, san jose, washinton)

    possible traders: carolina, columbus, colorodo, dallas, LA Kings, minnisota, ottawa (how ironic), pittsbugh, vancouver

    The NHL “seasonal” trade roster freeze coming up (dec 19th) I can’t see this happening before xmas.

  169. get rid of rozy and ansiminov and try to waiv someone down to the AHL. that would definitely free up cap room

  170. No, I watch the game objectively and can tell when the team is not performing well. Our team certainly is having trouble scoring and is going through a period of difficulty. Any idiot can see that. But you will never hear me say anything to the effect of “I want this team to lose” or “Im sick of this team” Which I have read around rangerland recently. It just seems selfish a juvenile to want a team to lose because they are not managing things the way YOU want them to.

  171. Rangers could offer Sundin $5.5 million/year, which would be prorated to $2.7 million for 40 Games ($67K per game). This assumes the $1.2 million that Larry Brooks reports the Rangers have available under the cap, plus they would have to move the salaries of Prucha and Fritsche by game 33. I like both players, but if Sundin were to agree to the deal, it would be hard to pass up.

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