Worth asking

188

When a team loses two straight and scores four goals in its last four, the addition of a 600-goal scorer suddenly doesn’t sound so ludicrous.

So for those wondering, yes, Brendan Shanahan is still skating and working out regularly in hopes of returning to the NHL this season.

“He’s still looking forward to playing,” Rick Curran, Shanahan’s agent, just told me.

Whether that means Shanahan could return to the Rangers is another matter. As opposed to a few months ago, when Curran spoke liberally about Shanahan’s desire to return to New York, it’s clear the agent has been told to remain hush about his client’s intentions. He wouldn’t go into details about what teams they’ve been talking to, but he did clarify that when Shanahan told Larry Brooks in late October that “the player would be willing to talk to other teams”:http://www.nypost.com/seven/10292008/sports/rangers/shanahan_wont_wait_for_rangers_135879.htm, that didn’t mean he would no longer be willing to talk to the Rangers.

In other words, the door remains open.

“We haven’t closed the door on anyone,” Curran said.

Update, 10:22 a.m.: Somewhat unrelated, although Brendan Shanahan does play a part, is “this story from Chris Botta about Sean Avery’s run-in with Garth Snow last year”:http://www.islanderspointblank.com/2008/12/when-avery-attacks-confrontation-with-snow-racial-taunts-at-nolan-showed-the-dark-side/.

Update, 12:29 p.m.: Some notes from practice:

Paul Mara, Blair Betts and Dmitri Kalinin were out with “maintenance”. Wade Redden skated but is still only questionable for Wednesday against the Thrashers.

Practice was highlighted by a good 20 minutes of sprinting at the end. Or at least it seemed like 20 minutes. Either way, I was tired just watching.

Altogether, it was a fairly serious tone in the locker room.

“I think it’s everywhere,” Chris Drury said of the second-guessing surrounding the Rangers. “We got off to the start we got off to and everyone around town is patting us on the back. Now we’re getting booed. I think it’s coming from everywhere. We just have to get back to winning ways and working hard like we did earlier.”

Update, 3:37 p.m.: Fair point from a commenter about an earlier post on Shahahan, which I’ve since decided to revise. It does insinuate something negative, and since I don’t know the whole story, I shouldn’t speculate. What I do know is that Shanahan was reported to be close to signing with the Flyers last month and the deal never came to fruition. Somewhere along the way, there was also a report of the two sides being apart on compensation. Beyond that, I can’t say why Shanahan is still a free agent.

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188 Comments

  1. He’s actually got 650 goals (and 690 assists). But who’s counting? Sign him, bring him back and fix the mistake of him not playing for us for a third year.

    Oh, and so much for the new Rangers “speed” game that was supposed to make it a bad idea for “slow-skating” Shanny to play for this team.

  2. IMO —

    I think the Renny era has run its course.

    His type of coaching was needed to bring the team from the nether regions to playoff contention / respectability.

    Now is the time to bring in another coach to bring them to the next level.

    This is standard business team building – as your needs change your team changes. One accountant will not bring you from a start-up to a fortune 500 company.

  3. I agree with Shanny fan

    What did happen to our “oh so fast team Shanny couldnt keep up”? ITs gone the way of the dodo!

    I think that if Sundin decides to play somewhere else, Sather is gonna dump Fristche and maybe even dawes or send them down to make room for Shanny.

    I actually thought this all along. Sather WANTS SUndin badly, but if it falls through, Shanny is his back up.

    At least if they sing him he shoul dbe able tom ake it the entire season.

  4. REPOST

    December 8th, 2008 at 10:54 am
    MikeNJ

    IMHO I really dont think Sundin is coming to the Rangers. They would have to move Redden with Kalinin or at least 6-7 million dollars worth of cap space to fit him. Which hell I’d move Redden & Kalinin for Sundin. But then we need 2 top 4 dmen and honestly what team would want those 2? Its too late to sit either one or “bench them” to get them frustrated so they leave the club. Rumor has it Sundin is supposed to sign with someone by December 15th.

    Hell I’d even trade Drury back to Buffalo for Paul Gaustad to make room for Sundin.

    Shanny stopped producing at the end of the season. Wasnt that great in the playoffs & his wrist shot in the SO goalies caught onto…

  5. not going to matter who they sign. still have the same coach. he’ll have sundin center for voros and orr, and put shanahan with betts and sjostrom. or maybe he can move sundin to wing, give that a try. or etc etc

  6. Septemous is rightenous

    “IMO—
    I think the Renny era has run its course.

    His type of coaching was needed to bring the team from the nether regions to playoff contention / respectability.

    Now is the time to bring in another coach to bring them to the next level.”

    There you go; nice guy, better than Trottier and the rest but:

    FIRE RENNEY

  7. I will take Brendan Shanahan over anyone on this team right now. He is the exact type of hockey player this team lacks.

  8. kaspar,
    who is the new coach going to be. the reeney supporters will tell you that torts can’t coach in the new NHL, laviolette can’T coach in the new NHL either.

  9. Renney haters –

    You can change the coach, but unless you address the talent (questionable D and a DRAMATIC LACK OF SCORING), it won’t matter much. This is not a Stanley Cup roster. You’re kidding yourselves if you think it is.

  10. this is renney’s team, these are the players he drafted, these are the players he and his coaching staff recomened signing. he does not get a walk on the personal because he is the coach. he was the head of player personal before he became coach. this is his team!

  11. Agreed with Rob C….and I think it’s about time we hear from Sather. Like him or not, Renney is held accountable; Sather is never around for a quote…I think, pending the outcome say, the next five games- if Sather doesn’t either (a) address this team’s glaring problems and/or (b) speak directly to fans- I’d say it’s about time for him too.

    Also, that post on Avery vs. Snow is interesting – I thought that he could maybe come to LI, but that seems off the table…

  12. Sam –

    Your comment on Korpikoski’s jersey number reminded me of my own question. I want to buy a Marc Staal jersey, but heard last year that he still kinda wanted #14 (his number in juniors). Now that Shanny is out of the picture, is it possible he’ll switch it up next season? Or is he gonna stick with #18? Thanks…

  13. rob c, there is more than enough offensive talent on this team for it to be in the middle of the pack scoring wise, not 29th! they are gripping because the coach is gripping. Fear rules

  14. And of course, I probably should have read that latest post that Shanny’s return isn’t entirely out of the question (although extremely unlikely) before posting about Staal’s jersey…

  15. The expression is: “One step backward, three steps forward.” In the case of Shanahan it would be: “10 steps backward, then fall into the abyss.” What an utterly preposterous supposition, -signing a player who is washed-up – as the way of addressing your ever-mounting problems. Just exponentially increase your problems seems to be the rationale. Intelligent teams sweep out non-producing vets and bring in more kids, but not here. We sweep out the wave of the future and bring back the faded past. Terrific!

    The biggest problem with the Rangers is the lack of offense. The offense is not scoring because the TIMING is off. The TIMING is off because the coach cannot go two periods of hockey without juggling the lines. This team needs a coach who meshes lines and players, rather than a coach who upsets the chemistry as his “solution” to the lack of offense.

    Four players on the ice for 30 seconds last night. The coach let 30 seconds go by without tapping someone on the shoulder. The players don’t even know who they are skating with and when they are supposed to be out there.

    With or without Shanahan or Sundin, this team is collapsing toward not even making the playoffs. Even then this coach’s job will be secure, although I hope I am wrong about that. And Scott Gomez is NOT Jesus Christ walking on water, Mr. Renney. He was the worst of the worst vs. Calgary, so naturally he got all those minutes of ice time down the stretch.

  16. cakewalk,
    absolutely correct. constant line changing,overuse of the 4th line and poor ingame coaching. all major faults of the coach. he must go, but he won’t.

  17. While on the subject of Gomez; shouldn’t he play with Voros- reason being is that Gomez skates around the periphery, while Voros is good at getting in the slot- this would allow Gomez to either draw two guys to him and dish it to Voros or if no one bites on Gomez he could go to the net strong and force a rebound…just a thought…for now, maybe making sure we have the right amount of skaters on the ice should be the focus…

  18. hey mako,

    where did you hear the rumour about sundin signing by the 15th? cause that totally just got my hopes up.

    also, i REALLY think that if the rangers dont get their act straight before this road trip, something seriously needs to get done, a MAJOR change.

    p.s. JAGR PLEASE SAVE US! RUSSIA IS TOO COLD ANYWAY

  19. Staal Wart December 8th, 2008 at 11:46 am

    Repost with a few changes…
    Staal Wart December 8th, 2008 at 9:56 am

    I haven’t posted much lately, because frankly I just needed a break, but I just have to comment because I have been known to look at the big picture with Renney and overall I liked what I saw, not everything, but like I said, BIG picture. However that being said, I was at the game last night and and I just don’t see a motivated team at this time. I see a frustrated Lundquist who from what I saw didn’t even go to the bench during TV timeouts like every other player.
    I see a team who playes on the outskirts of the offensive zone and outside of Zherdev has almost NO scoring punch…I mean nothing…I remember 1 scoring chance last night and it happened in the first 30 seconds of the game. I hate to say it but last night the most action I saw in the offensive zone was from the 4th line…NOT GOOD! Orr, Betts and Sjo looking dangerous? come on!
    Gomez has no finisher, he does the same thing, skates the puck up the ice and its a thing of beauty, but there is no one in position to do anything so…he goes behind the net sends it to the point for a shot that takes a millenium to get off and ends up being blocked when in stead there should have been a winger skating behind him for a drop pass and one timer.
    I also saw a team that botched a line change so bad that for almost 30 seconds we had 4 skaters on the ice.
    Like usual I can’t put all the blame on Renney, some yes, line changes shouldn’t happen like that. He needs to go back to the drawing board on his so called system. There is always one too many passes, that lead to no shot or a blocked shot. Does this team know about 1 timers? or at least just a quick shot toward the net?
    But ultimately its Sathers job to get a finisher for Gomez. Its Sathers job to surround Drury, Gomez and Zherdev with players who complement them. Its Sathers job to know the scope of the league and find players who fit in here, and not just thorw money at free agents because they are “available”. Don’t get me wrong, I think we have a good team base here but we need a few more offensive parts that fit.
    On the other hand its also Sathers job to not just throw money at a washed up Redden, I can’t believe that he is here for the next 6 years. WTF!!! Potter looked shaky at first but I have to say, Potter in one game outplayed Redden and he throws the body. I know some will disagree here but…I’d rather have Rozi and his contract than Redden with his. Rozi at least shows signs of competence.
    Sather has been here longer than Renney and frankly outside of landing Zherdev, Gomez and Drury who I like he has sucked!
    So before calling for Renney head please aim for Sathers!
    BTW…I heard fire Renney chants last night from lets see…
    4 people…so I don’t think that movement is quite off the ground yet.

  20. TrueBlue – I personally don’t think Voros is good at anything. His hits are soft, he’s ineffective in the slot, he doesn’t agitate. Why do we have this guy and not Sean Avery?

    Like I ranted last night, I would take last year’s roster in a heartbeat over this one. There is so much crap on the 08-09 Rangers, it really bothers me.

    I will stand by my position that it’s not Renney, it’s the personnel, until the personnel changes. If the Rangers make some moves and nothing happens, then I will start questioning whether or not Renney is the right guy. The bottom line is, Renney has done great things with this franchise and doesn’t deserve the axe yet, especially with the team near the top of the standings.

  21. I agree with alot of the blamers of Sather ( mostly for the Redden and Rozi contracts coming together; one would have been a chance but both!!)

    After that, though I do not belive they are world-beaters offensively, I think Reney has not maximized the offensive potentials he’s been given

    Said it yesterday on the blog; March 31st 2007 was the last, AND ONLY, time since Oct 2006 that Rangers gave up 4 goals (or more) and still won a game; they have gona ll year this year and all year last year without overcoming that…this year all the good teams have done it 2,3 and 4 times SO FAR!!

    I think Laviolette would be a big improvement
    Torts I’m not too sure of

    My biggest gripe with Renney, and some in the media, is they continue to support the myth that this guy has a system
    , above and beyond Lundquist holding a team to 2 goals and we win ( probably in a shoot-out)

    I’m not blind, I can see the reliance on Puck Possesion that he plays but unless its combined with agressive, 2-man in forechecking, rushes in that have 1 man going to the net then the offense cannot pressure the other teams dee enough to be effective..this is the type offense that all six teams that have gone to the finals in the last three years have played-including Carolina in 05-06

  22. Signing Shanahan wont make us any worse than we are right now. As much as I like Tom Renney, its time to move on in that aspect as well.

    As for Sundin vs Shanahan though, as much as I would love to see Sundin play for the Rangers, he will command much more money then Shanny would. Bring back No. 14 for another season. It should have been that way from the start.

  23. Hmmm seems as though reporters wont touch “only 4 men on the ice for more than 30 seconds” with a ten foot pole.

  24. All I want for Xmas is a new coach?

    I am not QUITE there yet, but I am starting to lean that way.

    If I had faith that Renney had a real game plan, I wouldn’t be leaning that way. I mean either they have a system that no player is following or they don’t have a real system. Either way, it doesn’t appear to me that these guys have any cohesion nor that they really believe in the coach.

    It starts with the juggling of lines. I saw this quote: “Renney….has utilized 31 different line combinations in game-opening rotations.” This was in Brooks’ article in the NY Post today. I don’t know EXACTLY what it means but since the NYR have played 30 games this season, I just think 31 different line combos in 30 games sounds like a ridiculous amount.

    Another thing…the PP. Time for Renney either to own up to the PPs futility or get rid of Pearn or something. I mean 8 shorthanded goals on the season? WTF? Can we just decline these penalties?

    Lundqvist is starting to show signs of frustration. He is a pretty softspoken Swede as well. You know there are problems when he is visibly upset. The last thing we want to do is piss off our franchise player.

    And Sam, please, tell Gomer and Drury this is their team now. They play like they are waiting for some leadership to emerge. They are the F-ING leadership.

  25. Who Needs Lohan on

    Maybe I am being a little bit of a conspiracy theorist, but if a similar situation to the 4 men on the ice happened to lets say the Mets and Yankees the media parade would have augmented it into the worst thing to happen to the city of NYC in years! Is it that the media just covers enough hockey so that they can say they cover hockey, or is there something else going on?

    You’ve got to wonder if these journalists (sorry Sam, you included) dont ask the questions that should be asked out of fear of losing their jobs? Can Sather have a stranglehold on the media coverage of his team? Sorry, but one has to wonder….

    If anyone has any balls, ask abooot these three questions and we will all be happier…

    1. Your PP fails time and time again….why is Staal not given a chance, Prucha? and why does Pearn still have a job?
    2. You constantly change the lines….dont you think it would be a good idea to set the lines and let them have a chance to gel?
    3. Lundqvist clearly appears frustrated and frankly that frustration appears to be point towards you, can you address that?

    GROW A PAIR!!!!! If only the coverage by the media could learn from Paul Mara on how to step up!

  26. All i want for Christmas is for the NY Rangers to play hard and act like they give a cr@p for 60 minutes each nite… 65 minutes if we make it to OT… and a few minutes longer if we make it to the shoot-out.

    That’s it.

  27. Agreed Who Needs- not to diss Sam, or any of us for that matter, but I don’t think people in this city care enough about hockey to garner that much coverage…

    Rob C, back to Voros- you may have a point, but I’m of the opinion he can be a lot better than he’s been (and a lot less of a liability than Avery) and my idea was more about getting Gomez utilized better.

    As it is he bursts out of our zone, through the neutral zone and then gets stymied in the offesnsive zone. If we had people at the net it would force the issue more…

  28. Bring in Shanny, Sundin,Ovi, Spezza, and Heatly..and keep playing Renney Hockey… We still will not score …

  29. Lohan
    thats exactly my frustration; I dont hate Renney I just think he’s peeked and he’s tryin to hold on; “we’re going to win a lot of 2-1 games??”

    Has he been watching? The “system”, the dee and even Hank are collapsing and guess what? 2 goals is becoming a 50-50 proposition.

    All the media are afraid if they go for the jugular like “what are you doing while its 4 on 5 for 1/2 minute” or “Did that happen because you shuffle lines every shift” or “Is Hank getting pissed at you personally Tom?”

    If they ask these, Friendly Tom will cut them off and they wont get the agreeable “You may be correct in that assumption…” interview

    I want answers

    Said it before the season, biggest change had to be the way Renney coaches

    You can juggle the personell every year for this guy and its always the same, 30 regulation wins, no PP, no scoring and reliance on 60-70 games a year Hank

    For God sakes he’s been given Jagr-Shanny-Drury-Gomer-Straka and Prucha (30G rookie) and we blame every one of them until theyre gone but never him

  30. wd40,

    It should be obvious to everyone that this team has problems, both coaching and player personnel problems.

    It bothers me to see new line combos every other game, players need time to gel with their line mates and sometimes that takes a few games or weeks. Also using the 4th line with 5 minutes left has FINALLY gotten to me. The problem is, they are the checking line, checking lines are usually a 3rd line and not a 4th line, when I was growing up, watching the game, the 4th line was the enforcer line, not a checking/shut down line. Playing Orr is good and all but when he is out there to generate offense with 5 minutes left to play when you’re down, there is a problem.

    With the player personnel problems I see. 3 suspect D-men are killing me. No need for both Redden and Rozsival, none at all. Rozsival looks uneasy with the puck at all times, especially in his own end, he has lost his ability to effectively play a 2 on 1 and just generally does nothing with any type of authority at all.

    Kalinin is the other but I won’t throw him under a bus because he made a great play in the 3rd (may have been the 1st) when he just got a stick on a one-timer that deflected it over the net and saved a goal.

    Gomez, while he is a great skater with great moved, can not put a pass on anyones tape when he is rushing up the ice with the puck, it is always a little too far in front of everyone. He is killing the plays that he sets up with non-effective passing.

    NO ONE crashes the net, everything is on the perimeter with this team, especially on the PP which I don’t even wanna to gripe about today because I don’t know where to start.

    We have NO snipper, no one to fear with the puck or in the slot.

    While it may be time for Renney to go, who do you pick up? Laviolette? Maybe… Hartley? No thanks. Crawford? Same as Hartley. Schoenfeld? He didn’t want the job years ago and shouldn’t get it now. Paddock, Hannon, Quinville? No, No, No.. we’d be in a worse position with any of them.Tortarella? The right guy for the job if Renney is to go in my mind but with his allegiances to Renney, that might not happen as easy as bringing another coach would be.

  31. TrueBlue – I can’t argue with Avery being a potential liability, but Aaron Voros is not as advertised. He has no impact on the game, whereas Avery could change the complexion of a game in one shift. But yes, I see your point about Gomez, and it’s a big question…how do you get more out of him.

  32. 3 regulation wins in the last 17 games!! only 3!! If that isnt cause for concern than i dont know what is.

  33. Its a good thing that Hank doesnt have two cup wins to go with his gold medal or else he might just get the gumption to whisper into Sather or Dolans ear “I just played my last game as a ranger”

  34. jason – somewhere between 50% and 75% of the anti renney stuff is justified. but i don’t have a problem using the 4th line down 3 goals and 5 minutes left. the game is lost and tiring out or even worse getting a key player injured is not a good idea. think jagr game 1 vs the devs a few yrs ago. we were down at least 3 goals maybe 2 minutes left and he gets hurt on the pk. end of series. that was probably renneys worst move in all his time as a coach.

  35. Sam must be cracking up reading some of this stuff. We should re-name this blog “Rangers Armageddon” after every loss.

    Calm down people. Did you really think they were gonna be a first place team all year? Look at the roster!

  36. GeeryD
    you’re crazy man

    I liked Nolan a lot
    does unconventional stuff ( remember when he had Isles ice the puck like 6 times in the first few minutes of a game last year? Trying to take the crowd out of it and slow down NYR who were rolling at the time)

    He’s probably on the outs though ( from the GM club I mean)

  37. Interesting article about Avery. His comments there were a lot worse than the comments he got suspended for. Also shows how important Shanahan was to the team. Gomez and Drury don’t come close to being the leaders Shanahan and Jagr were.

  38. Gerry… I would like Nolan too… He really seemed to get the MOST out of his awful Isle’s squads. Not that they were good, mind you… But they played as well as they possibly could as with extremely little talent/leadership.

  39. damn, the fans, the media, the GM, the coaching staff are all morons.

    Shanahan? Are you retarded? A new coach and new system is what’s needed.

  40. LI Joe,

    In my “rant” I was primarily talking about last night, down 2 with 5 minutes left. All we needed was 1 to change the game around, and then you don’t know what happens in the last minute with the extra attacker, especially with the PP but Mara loses his stick on behind the net with Bourque and Girardi let’s his man dictate that he goes to the wrong side of the net leaving Bourque alone essentially ending the game.

    I HATE to say this but maybe a player like Kovalchuk, who is available, wouldn’t be the worst thing for this team.

  41. Renney can’t coach in old or new NHL. He is a garbage coach that got lucky. He is in an organization that only hires terrible coaches and take a while to realize that they suck. He is lucky he got a goalie like Lundqvist. This guy wouldn’t last 20 games in NJ even with Brodeur in his prime.

  42. As for the team not having offense — Every player in this league is capable of offense.

    Look at the devils – they went from a 2-3 goal/game team with the marty system – to a 4-5 goal/game team under the clemmonson system.

    The only difference was a coaching decision to open up the offense.

    To say this squad couldn’t score more in a different system is IMO wrong. There is a lot of goalscoring on this team that is being stifled by uncreative play.

    The rangers play boring hockey (now watch Chicago or Detroit and see fun hockey). I think that is the renny defense first mindset. Hank will stop pucks. Let the them ride!!

  43. Kovalchuk would be great if there was no salary cap. No one will trade for Gomez, Redden, Rozsival or Drury’s contract, period.

    We will not get much in return unless Dubi, Zherdev, Staal or a top prospect like Anisimov ar ein the deal.

  44. Pavel,

    Good catch, I didn’t realize he was making over 6 mil a year. Though, by the time he gets dealt, his cap hit will be around $3mil for this year.

  45. One thing to note last night – Girardi and Mara got the lion’s share of powerplay time at 4:43 each, followed by Rozsival 2:56, Staal 1:43, Kalinin 1:39 and Potter 0:17.

  46. I hope NHL increases the goal net by about 10-15%, I really like the cureved goalposts. The way the nets are, I could just stand there wearing goalie equipment and not even move to make a save and my save % would be around 75%

  47. Here’s the thing…..Renney would have to be convicted of murder to be fired. If Isaiah did what he did and didn’t get fired (still being paid as a “consultant” I guess) I imagine it would require an earthmoving event to get Renney fired. Maybe he can come with his own “sloppy seconds” comment?

    I continue to think that Renney was a good coach to get the NYR back to respectability. Where my doubts lie, as referred to in the previous post, is whether he can get us to the next level. It’s only December, but it gets late pretty early.

  48. I remember last night before the game John Gianonne asked Renney a question about what he said to his team after the 6-2 loss to Montreal. This isn’t a direct quote, but it goes along the lines of this :

    “I felt I didn’t need to say anything to the team. The loss resonated around the whole locker room”

    HORRIBLE answer. It just assures us fans that he’s WAY too soft to be a coach. I’d love to see Mike Keenan’s angry face behind the bench. I really wouldn’t want Laviolette behind there, and the idea of Nolan isn’t bad at all. I’ve always likes his attitude.

  49. What happened with Shanny and the Flyers is that they started scoring goals and winning games and so had no need for him at all. Unless the Rangers feel his leadership would help, neither do they have a need for him. While it sounds logical, to sign a 650 goal scorer because the team doesn’t score enough goals, the answer is obvious.

    If Henrik had not emerged, would this team have made the playoffs at all the last 3 years? Is Renney actually a good coach or does it just look that way because he was better than a couple of guys who shouldn’t even be coaching at the mite level? And how far would this team have gone the last 2 years with Laviolette or Torts coaching them? EVERY YEAR its the same, no matter who is on the team. No scoring, ever, winning too many games in shootouts, and never, even despite winning streaks, really playing the kind of dominating hockey that wins Cups. I’m sorry but enough already.

  50. Matty,

    As much as you’d like to see Keenan’s angry face behind the bench, I’d rather see a calm face behind the bench that punishes a team after a poor effort the next day in practice that shows them that that type of effort is not acceptable and knows which buttons to push for which players.

  51. Matt,

    I’m not talking about “off ice conditioning,” I’m talking about making them skate and do drills WITHOUT pucks until they can’t feel their legs anymore.

  52. Let’s go back to every preview that was written about the Rangers back in early Sept. Everyone had the same thought process. “They’re a question mark”.

    They still are.

    Your season is measured by how you finish. Not by your bad stretches. They happen to everyone. It’s about how you respond to these bad stretches that define your team, and ultimately decide where you finish. Thus answering the question of “how good is this team?”.

    Sure, different team, different story. But someone above stated ‘Renney couldn’t coach in the old nhl or new’. While that little doo-dad is absurd on a number of levels, believe it or not it IS relavent in this conversation.

    Reason: Barry Melrose. Most folks said something very similar about TB (they’re a question mark, still are). They’re part of the weakest division in the Eastern Conference, arguably in the entire league.

    5-7-4 w/ Barry (.312)
    1-5-4 since Barry (.100)
    (btw)

    A mid-season coaching change would be a disaster for the NYR. I don’t believe that ALL of this should live and die with the coaching staff. There are too many moving parts of a franchise (that’s currently leading their division) to find 1 aspect that’s failing the rest.

    Such was/is the case in TB, and so is true in NY. It would also be a disgrace if Dave Tippett was shown the door.

    Your coaching staff isn’t the problem NYR fans. (ok, maybe Pearn a – little – lot.)

  53. 2 points i want to make about some of the responses i’ve been reading in the last few posts from sam.

    id rather dump chris “captain crap” drury than gomez any day of the week. drury is a glorified 3rd line center. at least with gomez we know he’s capable of centering one of the top 2 lines. now if only we had anyone who could play with him, let alone finish…

    also, again… do you really think firing renney in the middle of the year is going to change things? this team isn’t going to just catch fire if we dump renney. changing the system takes time and patience. its also something that works out best when the team gets the guy they want rather than panicing and hiring a retread mid season. i’ve said it before and i’ll say it again. if we’re going to change our coaching staff it needs to happen in the off season.

    we don’t have the horses. no one on this team can just take a game over. you think firing renney is going to change that? enough with the fire renny posts. its not going to happen mid season. i’m no renney supporter but i’m also not petitioning to get him fired because that to me spells disaster for the rest of this year and in a hurry.

    oh. one more thing.

    chris “captain crap” drury is a -7 and gomez is a -9 on the year. neither of them will score 20 goals this season.

    great moves slats. you can chalk redden and naslund up on this list as well. redden is a total stinker and naslund is slow and unproductive in anything but shootouts.

  54. Question Mark…AMAZING post. THANK YOU!

    Key word today, people…PERSPECTIVE! Look at the calendar.

  55. Mid-season coach change did the Caps pretty well eh? Caps went 37-17-7 when he took over the team November 22. He was offically their coach December 26, 2007. ANNNND won the Jack Adams award for Best Coach.

  56. ROB C

    Yeah, if Renney gets fired then who knows, things might not change, and things could even get worse since, the new coach would have to get used to the players, and the players to him, but even so, i think for this team, they really like Renney, and these guys aren’t doing what they’re supposed to be doing, and we can blame it on Renney, or just blame it on the players, but Slats needs to fire this guy, to wake his team up.

    I cant see any other way for this team to get its shit together. The players aren’t scoring, the d isn’t defending Hank, fire Renney, and maybe they’ll feel responsible, and turn it around.

    As far as signing Shanny goes. Id prefer Mats, but if there’s no way of getting that done, then what ever, sign Shanny. Im really interested in seeing how he bounces back, after all that’s happened, cause he has a lot to prove.

    Im not against this at all.

  57. Wadda ya gonna do?

    This team is free-fallin’ and it won’t come close to stopping this time until the excuse “look at our record” can’t be used anymore.

    Think it can’t get worse? Wait until we lose 5 of the next 6. (We may pull one shootout win out of our rear ends).

  58. 35 is the new 25
    9:15am is the new 8:30 (at least i say this when i am late for work)
    and January will be the new October for Shanny, in other words he may have his legs come May.

    I say SIGN HIM.

  59. Peter, I agree with you 100%. Renney is, was, and always will be a charlatan. When was the last time Lundqvist had even a mediocre night and we won? Probably in 2005.

    Renney “looks so good” to some people because they are comparing him to some of the worst NHL coaches in history. There is literally no case for Renney being a good coach anymore. No case.

    Please, Lord Almighty…. Let Renney be fired and stir some fire into this team. We have lots of talent. No reason in the world this team should be shut out at HOME two games in a row.

  60. So
    I give you this team

    Shanahan-Jagr-Drury-Gomez-Straka-Avery
    Prucha-Betts-Orr-Hollweg-Sjostrom-Dubinsky-Callahan-Dawes
    ( This after struggling to score in 2006-07 and adding Drury and Gomer)

    And you go out and score less than 2.5 goals a game.

    Then claiming that the older guys are holding back the team and the PP we purge them

    So out they go! everyone was happy! and you get Naslund and Zherdev and you still can’t score

    Someone mentioned Kovalchuk above; that like inviting a steak lover to Mcdonalds

  61. Salty
    “Peter, I agree with you 100%. Renney is, was, and always will be a charlatan. When was the last time Lundqvist had even a mediocre night and we won? Probably in 2005.”

    Salt
    I did the research

    March 31 2007 only ranger win since Oct 2006 where we beat a team that scored 4 goals or more; THATS RIGHT ALL LAST YEAR AND ALL THIS YEAR

    Sjose, Det and Pitt have done that three-four times so far THIS SEASON!!!!Mont,Boston Anahaien 2-3 times each

    Its time for renny to go

  62. Rob C, you on crack bro? They’ve won 3 regulation games in 17!!! And you’re not concerned? Geez, you have a pretty nice, stress-free life.

    I hate it. I can’t stand it! I saw this coming and that’s why it eats me up (BeerMe, LIJoe, others can testify to my “negative” remarks … which have proven to be very accurate criticisms).

    This team would be OK if not for:
    Renney accepting mediocrity and lazy efforts
    Renney tinkering with every line, every damn game
    Renney forcing a system on them that hasn’t worked for them!! Let them run-n-gun already. Hank faces odd man rushes every 4 minutes as it is, might as well let them happen for a reason.

    I wonder what’s actually wrong with Sean Avery (personally/mentally – BTW: That Islanders article link is BullCocka because he never quotes Snow and just says “snow suggested he listen to shanny and keep walking…” haha, yea and had no fine choice words for Avery? Avery ain’t a saint and I’m sure he instigated this; but I’ve learned from Isles beat writer Greg Logan that most beat writers love to squew their story’s…and i’m sure the Chris Botti piece isn’t the only one we’ve seen today.

  63. Lunqvist is our highest paid player and when someone is making the most , you build a team around them. Sather needs to trade anyone , I mean anyone ( except Staal , Z and Dubinsky )and get 2 not 1 ..2 Hulking stay at home Defensemen , PERIOD!!! Half you knuckheads ( sorry but )are fighting and saying its the Coach or noooo its personel.
    ILL tell you what it is …it is both .Stop argueing a mute point . Renny is a personel guy not championship coach. He needs to go and we HAVE TO TRADE for 2 mutha fluckin stay at home defense men for HANK and Staalsie. Throw inminor leagers to fill forward spots..i dont care …WE NEED TO KEEP HANK aboard …we pick up the goalie of a centry in Hank and leave him out to dry ..shame shame

    The system isn’t working and all you who thinks a coaching change would maybe hinder the situation…..come on fer fuk sakes – Renny has lost the team , sent him to the scouting department.

    Shanny , Sundin …yes but in reality we need a Accoin or a Blake type of player. If this team had Pronger ( we wish) , we wouldnt need half the shtuff ya all say.

  64. Yes, we need better defense greg (but it’s moot point not mute point – unless this is a deaf person making a point).

    But as for coaching, and while I agree it’s not all Renney, what is Messier doing these days?

  65. using boudreau as a example for how a coach change can work is bullocks. what happened in washington was a big surprise and everyone talks about it still today, especially now that some teams are firing coaches. i’ve heard at least 5 or 6 people in the last week that have their feet stuck firmly in the nhl world talk about how the instance with boudreau never happens. looking back through history i challenge anyone to find even a remotely comparable instance of a team firing a coach and then ending up with boudreau like results in the same season they fired their first coach.

    im going to refer to drury as captain crap the rest of this year.

    and for the last time, is it renney’s fault that we have the personnel we have? is it his fault no one on this team can consistently score goals? maybe. or maybe im still right when i say WE DON’T HAVE THE HORSES.

  66. Greg L…they don’t look interested out there. The only guys who give two craps are Hank, Z, Naz works hard but hasn’t been so productive, Staal and Mara look OK. Cally works hard but I think we know what he can offer for production. Prucha has looked good since coming back and the 4th line is, well, the 4th line. But guys like Drury, Gomez, Dawes, Fritsche, Dubinsky, Korpikoski, Voros, Redden, Rozsival, and Kalinen have just looked bad! They don’t work hard. They don’t seem to care. Sloppy plays everywhere, terrible zone coverage, awful passes, ugg…it’s just ugly out there.

  67. Shesend, Renney stifled Jagr from a 123 point scorer to a 71 point player. That whole time, Renney was “perfecting” his system. Obviously Jagr’s own age and disinterest in the team (along with his shoulder injury) but it’s quite obvious Renney’s system has held this team back. When they get OUT of the system they play great! (reference 3rd period come backs…3 or 4 of them I think).

    Obviously Renney’s system is sh!t too if the defense lets up breakaway after breakawy, the PP can’t score (compliments of PerryP), and they even lead the league in SHGA. Sweet.

  68. Renney might have lost this team but….as far as mid season coaching changes; boudreau is a great point

    Boudreau in Washington did a good job with personall that included Ovech, Semin, Backstrom, Green and then they added Federov and Huet…this was not a miracle; it was getting the most out of a talented young team and they’re gonna get better this year..they did what the Pens did the year before…THEY DEVELOPED..no miracle

  69. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO lets throw ’em all on waivers ..Redden ,Rozival,Gomez and Drury after we exasperated all trade attempts. Lets go into rebuiling mode even deeper!!! Make Dubi captain and buy buy buy BIG , MEAN , NASTY defensmen !!! If we can’t score with over 25 million in 4 players …lets dump ’em and build from Hank out…DUBI , Staal and Z are the only un-touchables….We are still in first place …new guys would keep up the pace just a good as all these floaters ( Gomez).

  70. Shesend

    No matter what. It worked and if I wasnt at work or errr lazy I would probably find another example of how firing a coach can turn things around for a hockey team. Either way, what is the risk? They stay a mediocre team and sink to the bottom of the confrence or have balls and shake things up? Which could lead to the team responding or sinking to the bottom of the conference. We already know what we have seen for 4 years of “Renney Hockey” I think all of us want a change. They players arent responding to this man anymore…

  71. Kaspar,

    You said the key words: “Getting the most out of…”

    How much of this “the sum is not greater than the parts” BS must we endure?

    Just about every player on this team is underachieving. The notable exception being Hank and Renney is definitely losing him. You can see it in every look, action, remark.

    This team’s in a bad way for sure. I long for the days when it was just the horrendous powerplay. Now, that unfixed, clunker isn’t even worth discussing.

  72. True blue you are correct on both posts. Messier over Renny as coach??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA …..you tell me who holds more accountabilty out of the two . If Renny has a plan , it’s not working ..Messier ‘s presence would take heat off of some of the players. Messier is as coach is a must….but dream on.

  73. look, im not saying im not in favor of renney getting the axe. ive seen how no one responds to him anymore. i know it but im cautious of what’s going to happen if we do it in the middle of the season.

  74. The only plesant surprise on this team has been Zherdev. Because A. he was a WC player who was unhappy with his situation and B. is responding to NYC and the Rangers. I think Z does his own thing out there and with the right coach and practice with concrete players who are supposed to be his line mates. He is going to be a dangerous player. I have always called him “the poor mans Ovechkin” by no means am I saying he is the same with Ovie, but with the right combination and motivational coach. This kid could be AMAZING!!!

  75. When will Drury step up and do anything Captain like?!

    Do you remember a couple weeks ago (Sam can refresh us on this) but there was a player’s only meeting when the media was kicked out…if I recall, Naslund was the one who scheduled that and kicked out the media, no?!

    Weinman, how much is Drury leading this team off the ice? Is he the leader? If not, who is?

    I’m sure you ALL remember Shanny fighting Brashear to spark the team out of their 7 game losing streak…what’s Drury done and what is he doing?! (i’m asking, not criticizing…yet)

  76. Hank is the Bright spot because he does not have to play the Renney system. He plays goal. If he was a skater , he would be suffering the same under achievements as the young and old Ranger skaters are. Poor Naslund. He left the Canucks looking for more offensive minded teams. What a bait and switch Naz was sold in NY . What a shame.

  77. Reney has no system this is the same thing that happend last year and two years ago. win a couple loose a couple win a couple and then get shit on by a good team in the playoffs. we needed some one to turn us around now we need some one to take us to the next level

  78. I agree with Question Mark.

    Everybody always points to the coaches when its the players. The Rangers dont have go to guy. Oh yea your crazy if you think the team needs an Aucoin he aint no bargain either.

    Maybe some fans need a lobotomy when it comes to the rangers cause they talk out of nowhere.

  79. Anyone crying about firing renney now being the wrong time…

    Wrong as compared to what? you wanna hold on so they can outclassed by Pitt, Mont or Philly in playoffs??

    The Melrose comparison is valid:Tampa stunk last year, they hire Melrose they won 5 of 16 games..they still stunk and so what? they stink worse??

    Renneys rangers were mediocre on 2006-07, in 2007-08 and they’re still mediocre..anyone fooled by shootout wuins here? 11-9 without the gimmicks

  80. I’m glad Renney finally had some balls and punished the team with some sprinting. Wish he made em do HErbies for 20 minutes instead though. Talk about not feeling your legs anymore

    These are the things I want for the next few games:

    -Consistent lines for the next 5 games straight
    -Perry Pearn REMOVED from constructing the PP
    -Marc Staal and Peter Prucha on a PP unit EVERY ONE of the next five games.
    -Redden sat for the next 5 games to let him re-hab his crotch, AND so Potter can show how a freaking hit is thrown.
    -Voros standing in front of the net and staying there.
    -Hank being protected.

    9 games left this month
    IF we come out of this with a 10-2, 9-3, 8-4 or7-5 record so be it, I’ll take the above 500 play and the points and start off the new year with whatever moves Sather is going to make

    If its the other way around, 2-10,3-9 etc. then shit better hit the fan, asst coaches better get reevaluated and or replaced, and the parts were missing Sather better figure out how to get in here.

    And I totaly forgot last year of 6 or 7 in a row was in Dec right?

  81. Sam I agree with other posters here… you have been VERY lenient on Drury and Gomez … they are the face of the team … why are they getting a pass…. If Jagr ever played as bad as those 2 have for extended periods of time he would get roasted in the press … do not blame Callahan or Dawes or other young wingers… it is the centers that are causing these problems…

    That being said the only thing they can do is fire the coach .. Redden and Gomez should go in a trade but I am not sure if they have no trade clauses …

    Send Redden to Dallas for Avery … then send Gomez to Vancouver for a defenseman … sign Shanny and Sundin with the cap room you got by dumping these 2 second line players… so if you cannot do that, Sather ain’t leavin’ so fire the coach … see if the new coach has the same affect as Boudreau did in Washington.

  82. Ahahahaha

    Messier as coach ??? Yeah that’s just what these players need, to see Messier cry when a Ranger takes a penalty. Mess is such a baby, he cries more than a newborn.

    GREG L

    Yeah this team needs a “Hulkin D-man” as bad as i need to see Brashear get knocked out. But who is out there, besides Aucoin who is rumored to be traded ?

    I like Blake, and i wanted him at the deadline. But supposedly he didn’t wanna go anywhere but San Jose, or Anaheim. Obviously a similar situation to Shanny not wanting to go far from NY, for his family.

    Renney has to go, Pearn has to go, Rozi has to get traded, im sure a team would take him. Who knows maybe if we throw in some 3rd liners, maybe we can get Jovo out of it, maybe Carcillo to throw in as well, just for some physicality.

    This team needs a change. Hank gets bumped non stop, without anyone doing a thing aboot it. Semin got away with mauling the way, as well as Nylander. This teams soft, and they need toughness.

    I don’t care if making a couple of deals holds us back, and we manage to sneak into the playoffs, but this team needs a change.

    They’re just like the Smurfs, its depressing.

    I still cant get over that 30 second shift of only 4 Rangers on the ice. Has that ever happened in the NHL before ??

  83. Captain Crutch Drury
    Coach Hyena Renney
    Smiling idiot Gomez
    Even a Caveman can do it Rozsival
    Tie Salesman Pearn
    Who the hell knows what the hell he does Pellino
    Gone Fishing and chewing cigars Sather
    2.5 assists Betts
    Orr who gave up fighting but hasn’t yet learned scoring

    This team rocks!!!

  84. “Who the hell knows what the hell he does Pellino”

    He’s the brains of the operation; satellites, GPS tracking devices, wrist-watch walkie talkies and two way mirrors etc…

  85. HOUSE

    So what ?? Yeah it is the players, they’re not giving 100%, if they cant do that, its up to the coach to bring it out of them, if he cant do that, then the players have to pay the price for not giving it 100%, and that’s firing the coach, and maybe, just maybe it might wake these players up, and make them give 100%.

    Either way, i cant stand Renney, he’s a horrible coach, he’s clueless, he doesn’t know how to use his players, he gives his 4th line way to much ice time. You can go on and on.

    This is something that should have happened last year. Now there is two good coaches available, and even 3 if you wanna count Nolan, which i have a hard time doing after his comments on Hollweg, after the Simon incident. But they’re better than Renney. Yeah, they both got fired, but look at what they had to deal with.

    Give me a coach who benches his 4th line in OT, unless they take a penalty. No reason Betts should be on the ice in OT.

  86. “He’s the brains of the operation; satellites, GPS tracking devices, wrist-watch walkie talkies and two way mirrors etc…”

    Don’t forget the fog machine and the Swedish goaltender…Tadaa!

  87. “i challenge anyone to find even a remotely comparable instance of a team firing a coach and then ending up with boudreau like results in the same season they fired their first coach.”

    Uh, what about Quenneville in Chicago?

  88. The fact that we were the most overworked (in terms of games played) team in the NHL over the first two months hasn’t helped anything.

  89. Ok – I am not (yet) a Renney hater but got to point out the Renney blunders of late.

    1. at least two bench minors in the past 4 games for too many men. In mitey-mites you will probably get a pass for having too many men on the ice once a season… but after that there are no exuces.
    2. 30 seconds of 4 on 5 last game. no excuses.
    3. Dawes been crap all year (most of it at least)… guy plays a spirited game vs Montreal when most others don’t even show up… so what does Renney do next game – benches him.
    4. Gomez plays his worst game of his career vs Montreal and then follows it up with a real stinker in the first period vs Calgary. so what does Renney do – gives him more ice time.
    5. How many dumb penalties has Voros taken the past 3/4 games…. I can count at least 3… Think he got benched for maybe 5 minutes then right back at it. No accountability.
    6. Drury still where’s the C despite showing zero heart this year. Last time I thought “damn Drury is a bad ass”… was when he scored that goal with 7.7 seconds left and knocked us out of the playoffs. Has not done much as a Ranger.
    7. the line changing – rather mixing – has got to stop. My head is spinning with all the combos he is trying. Could you imagine being one of the players! There is no chance of building any chemistry as he mixes things up at the first sign of a problem.
    8. it is apparent the King is losing faith in Renney. Hey I would be to if I were Hank… he just gets shelled every night!
    9. Team playing with no heart… a one off random game is tough to blame on the coach… but an entire month. Tough not to.
    10. someone alluded to this earlier… he just is not that dynamic – his reponse to everything is lets switch up the lines. Not lets try this different tactic. His only move is switching the lines up even though the team makes the same mistakes night in night out.

    anyway… not giving up on him just yet. As dumb as Renney looks when the Rangers are losing he somehow seems to look like a sage when they are winning. Like he is the only one that can get thru to this team of misfits!

  90. Having the coach fired doesnt guarantee the team will wake up. Its absurd to blame everything on him. If you guys want a bunch of has-beens then root for Carolina. The team always comes out of it and firing the coach is not gonna help. They need a spark from a player example Shanny or Sundin i really dont care which one.

    It it aint Renney’s fault Sather pulled his bullcrap this offseason. Even if Renney did have an opinion slats wouldnt listen anyway he is too caught up in his own fantasyland.

  91. Orr- I’d love to see you say that regarding Messier anywhere near him in person. Anyway, not advocating this, but pros of Messier as coach include:

    (a) He’s a leader, can relate to players and be tough on them if need be
    (b) Obviously he brought us the Cup
    (c) It would allow Sather to not take the heat and would not threaten his (Sather that is) job- the last thing I remember hearing was that gaffe that he (Messier) would like to be GM.

    The cons are somwehat obvious as well;

    (a) failure would tarnish his rep in NY
    (b) may not be good coaching material etc…

    Anyway, I think I fall squarely in the following camp:

    (1) It’s not entirely Renney’s fault
    (2) We don’t have the “horses” or a good enough roster
    (3) We always knew we needed better defense
    (4) Redden and (to some extent) Naslund were mistakes – Sather’s mistakes
    (5) But, most importantly, we have, on paper, enough talent offensively to score more than we are — and that’s as troubling as our lack of support for Hank.

  92. Parros
    never fooled by the “sage” thing even during wins; you meant the shoot out wins right?

    I’d be a sage if I had Hank in nets on most nights; but I’d still be talking my same old nonsense

  93. Ted Nolan is such a great coach he cant even stay in the freakin league whether its sleeping with players’ wives or not winning. Renney is a heck of alot better than, and you would know that if you went to the coaches forum last year.

  94. “Renney stifled Jagr from a 123 point scorer to a 71 point player.”

    And admitting that he took nights off(like a 1/3 of the season) had nothing to do with it? You’re a clown.

  95. HOUSE

    Renney is so far up Slats’ ass its scary. He doesn’t have a negative thing to say aboot anyone. He’s a pussy, he’s scared of his own Vets. He wont bench them because of the amount of money they make. He’s a shitty coach, either way, he needs to go.

    He was handed a team that nobody knew aboot, a star goalie, and a HOF that people didn’t take serious any more. Ill give him credit for that season, but after that, i think he’s been hanging onto his job only cause Hank is one of the top 5 goalies in the league. If we had Weekes, Vally, Montoya, Dunham, or anyone in net besides Hank. I highly doubt the team will be the same, and im pretty sure he wouldn’t have a job.

    He’s the most overrated coach in the league.

    Don’t get me wrong, Slats isn’t a spring chicken, but still, Renney cant control this team. All he does is make bad decisions, wrong decisions, blah, blah, blah.

    And to be honest, i don’t thin Sundin even wants to sign here, after the way this teams been playing. We get raped by the two other teams that he’s interested in, which didn’t help. Nazzy is gonna have to do talk him into it, but who knows.

    I will give Renney credit for one thing, he finally put Gomer on wing, and put him with Dubi, but at the same time, Gomer was – 3, and had a horrible, game, and didn’t deserve more ice time.

    Im sick of taking the bad with the semi good with this guy !!

    FIRE RENNEY !!!

  96. Keep digging, keep digging, keep digging.

    Pretty soon you guys will be able to put Renney on the grassy knoll.

    It’ll be Renney’s fault that Avery is dooshbag too soon enough.

    Keep digging, it’ll get you deeper into the barrel of sh!t you’re already in up to your ears.

    Is global warming his fault too?

  97. if the rangers do fire renney(move him upstairs) the diretion they will go is schonfeld. he nows the personal and what has been going on in hartford as well the big club. not saying i would or would not, but i think that’s what they would do if they pulled the trigger on renney.

  98. everyone has to stop saying that the rangers need a finisher/goal scorer/sniper. what the hell do you think naslund, zherdev, and drury are?! there supposed fill in those roles you schmucks. unfortunately, thats not happening. so one guy isnt gonna make the difference unless its jagr. and we all know hes not getting $10 mil in the nhl.

    some people just find it hard to believe that players sometimes dont wanna play for their coach anymore. and if thats not evident, then you all must be blind.

  99. When was the 4 on 5 even strength play last night? I remember watching the game and vaguely remember the incident but I wanted to go watch it again.

    Here’s one thing I can say, having played a fair bit of hockey myself…..If I am on the bench and I see some situation like this that goes on for more than 3 seconds, I jump on the ice and just start skating.

    So while I think that situation is the coach’s fault because clearly someone doesn’t know it’s their turn on the ice (are we sure this is the coach’s fault?), I could very easily say that none of the players give a S or one of them would have jumped on themselves and sorted it out.

    I could be wrong on this, and I am mighty annoyed with Renney right now, but being paid a lot of $ and not working hard is BS on the players’ part as well.

  100. jason,

    i know what ur talking about, but im saying while they should be getting worked forever they have had off ice as what was scheduled but renney wouldnt change it

  101. It really is mad funny that Dawes scores, and then he is scratched next game in favor of hurting Betts, useless Orr, and slumping Gomez and Drury.

  102. And someone said it earlier about Voros and I had mentioned this…he is playing his way onto the 4th line. I like Sjostrom for Voros pretty soon. Too many dumb penalties and no more grit or heart from him.

    When I wonder if Renney is nervous to cross Sather, him not making Voros a 4th liner and putting Sjo in has me thinking he is scared of Sather. Same can be said of Renney not taking the big $ guys to task for sucking as much as they do.

    But at the end of the day, do these players really want to play for Tom Renney?

  103. Well, I’m glad there’s at least a few people that aren’t ready to jump.

    I’ve seen Steve Zipay playing the Sundin tune for a few weeks now. It might not be that bad of an idea. We’re almost to the 1/2 way point. I guess the same goes for Shanahan at this point. Everyone seems worried, as do I, that he won’t have enough in the tank. But if he’ll wait a little longer, and the players on the ‘deadline block’ are more defined, we may see that he’s an extrememly viable option given the fact that he comes with a relatively small cap hit and you don’t have to give anyone up.

  104. ~~~~ F A I R Y T A L E LAND ~~~~~~

    Coach : Messier

    Player development : Renny …or bathroom attendant (just kiddin)

    Sundin ,Jagr and Avery in …

    Rosival , Drury and Redden out …

    TooToo for Prucha ( both can’t score )

    Phenuf or Pronger or Blake or Orpik or Jovo or any lottery guy to scooop.

    A 2 givaway rule to any vet (Gomez) a period of being Benched.

    Callahan ,Dawes, Betts , Kahlin and shoey are expendible to make it all work.

    Sags and Delzotto combination are poised N primed for the big leagues.

    ORR and TooTOO make a real 4th line.

    Shanahan for 1 Million , back as a 5th defensman and used in POWERPLAY .

    Guys like Z , Dubinsky , Voros and Gomez will be pieces that would fit in nicely with this group . Messier leads this group and NO ONE will argue anything Once Messier gives that stare…

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  105. New Newman

    I have always wanted to see Sjostrom on a higher line. The kid has talent. You just never see it because he is buried on the 4th line. Definitely Voros on 4th line.

  106. new newman

    voros should be on the 4th line. he hasnt done anything since idk nov 1. and he shoudnt be on the pp becasue our d man dont shoot so the puck is always on the outside so having a guy who only stands in front of the net is worthless.

  107. Yeah Right:
    ‘”Renney stifled Jagr from a 123 point scorer to a 71 point player.”

    And admitting that he took nights off(like a 1/3 of the season) had nothing to do with it? You’re a clown.’

    And RENNEY STILL put him out on the ice after knowing he was bagging it!! haha. You prove my point further. No doubt, Jagr’s offense struggled in this system but Renney’s inability to discipline veterans (as he overplayed Jagr during lazy streaks, and now Gomez) is another example of why he’s a BAD coach! He’ll sit Dubinsky or Zherdev, but the vets “have earned it.” Bull Sh!t!!!! If a vet doesn’t show up, put their arse on the pine a couple shifts…send them home the next game. Accountability from the vets should be even greater than that from the young guys, that’s what their experience and their pay checks dictate.

    So I guess you’re the only clown here Yeah Right because you supported my point. Gracias.

  108. Yeah Right. I also said this too: “Obviously Jagr’s own age and disinterest in the team (along with his shoulder injury) but it’s quite obvious Renney’s system has held this team back.”

    Are you BeerMe or LiJoe?! hahaha… the pranksters around here, too funny you guys.

  109. SHANNY,JAGR,MESSIER,SUDEN,EVEN THE GREAT WOULDN’T HELP THIS TEAM, WITH THAT COACH, WITH THIS SYSTEM,2 PLUS YEARS. IT DOESN’T WORK.WE’LL BE OUT IN 2ND ROUND AT OUR BEST.
    RENNEY NEEDS TO GO.

  110. Sam- The 12:40 post insinuates there is some sort of negative issue regarding Shanahan. Do you think that is good journalism putting that out there like that? Either tell the story or don’t if you even know a story otherwise give the guy some respect. Between this and not asking Renney about the 4 men on the ice last night you are starting to show us a lot about you. Quit talking about food all the time grow a pair.

  111. onecupin67years on

    Didn’t we all wonder where the scoring was going to come from this year after jagr left?
    Did we all expect Drury and Gomez to score 25 plus, Prucha to re-emerge?
    But instead there is a scoring drought and players aren’t developing to their potential. Forget Shanahan , do you actually think that his presence will ignite this club on a scoring streak ?
    This team needs moves from the Top (GM and coaching staff) and a tweaking of the line up , once a motivating Coach is in place I think the players will respond and earn their money ,if they don’t respond, then move ’em out.

  112. Messier cries with PASSION , mr Orr …Passion….Pa s s i o n …You never saw him cry on the ice !!

  113. onecupin67years on

    And some bloggers are blaming Henrik for the team’s poor performance based upon his goals against average which has recently risen.
    What is actually is , is a reflection the teams poor d , the poorer they play in front of Hank of course his numbers will rise.How can he win a game when the team doesn’t score? or his Renney depending on another shoot out win?

  114. Greg,

    Orr only remembers Messier’s 2nd tour with the Rangers, he was too young to have any recollection of anything from 91-97.

  115. REPOST,
    Lets start with the most recent games and work backwards
    Opponent SA GA Save% SF GF Shoot%
    Calgary 20 3 85% 31 0 0%
    Montreal 39 6 85% 20 2 10%
    Pittsburgh 31 2 94% 27 2 7%
    Florida 30 4 87% 37 0 0%
    Florida 41 3 93% 46 3 7%
    Tampa 29 2 93% 35 2 6%
    Phoenix 36 1 97% 36 1 11%
    Vancouver 17 4 71% 42 3 7%
    Overall 243 25 90% 274 13 5%

    An average shooting percentage during a game according to NHL.com is around 10%. This means that Lundqvist has playing par hockey. Wait, what was that? The King, par? Can you say MVP (Most Varied Player)? At the begininng og the season he was at the top of the charts and could do no wrong? Whats happened? Another thing is if you would like to consider that the teams that he has been facing have a shooting percentage way below the 6% mark thus far this season, you could say the past 8 games he has played well-below subpar. Is he mad at the coach? His team? Whats going on in his head right now. Also, lets not just through the blame all on Hank right here. The shooting percentage of this club lands around 5%. That is the lowest in the league. Could it be that they are taking shots from the points and just hoping for deflections because its Renney’s style? Or is it just the lack of talent on this team? I’ll leave that up for you to decide…but my main point here is Henrik is looking Sub-par when we need him to be stand-out and the team isn’t really helping him out.

    Am I blaming any of these games on Hank, No. You need to score to win, but do I know that I have seen Henrik make saves on those shots that went in before. YES. He isn’t playing to his fullest potential and I can not wait until he comes back…hopefully with the team. Lets hope Hank is not checking out.

  116. Vrbata is going to Russia, and that clears his salary off of TB’s cap. If he comes back, the cap hit remains to TB. But to go play in Russia, he has to clear waivers. So could another team try to sign him and have TB pick up half the salary? I’m sure there would be a lot of legal wrangling there

  117. biggest barometer is not shots for/shots against; its what kind of shots; you saw two calgary goals last night where they sent one guy for the net and the other passed into the crease to get the goal

    When was last ranger goal scored that way??? No offense

    and…the Rangers dont defend that kind of play well either

    they have been found out
    thats how you beat ANY GOALIE yes even the great Lundquist

  118. Captain Crutch got a team worst 9 hits in 30 games. This is our fearless leader, what an example he sets! not vocal, not physical, not creative offensively.

  119. Why would we ever blame Lundqvist? He’s been hung out to dry on most goals scored against him this season because of Mr. Minus Kalinin and Blozsival…

    Anyone else notice that Blozsival played better when Potter came up? If only Kalinin was more motivated. I doubt he has a NTC.. a 7th rounder for him would be a steal.

  120. onecupin67years on

    last nights bloggers suggested that henrik’s upward average is a result of him not being as sharp as he was in oct and nov,but what it is is 1) his D and offense have produced and prevented nothing in his favor , shootout wins are a tribute to hank.
    and Renney will play him to death like he did to jagr last year

  121. Parros,
    I do not agree with #5. Everyone complained the first time that Voros got benched and they would complain about a second. Voros did not trip the guy on purpose, he just accidently had his stick through the guys legs. I dont blame him, it happens.

    Also #6 is wrong also. Although Drury is playing so inconsistently, you can not just strip your captain of the C unless he does something obnoxious to the team. The stripped Patrick Elias of his C when Langenbrunner came back and ever since then Elias has been terrible…I’m glad we didn’t sign him when we tried to two years ago.

    HOUSE,
    I completely agree with your statement at 3:46

    NEWB,
    I completely agree with your statement at 3:02 as well
    But your comment at 3:05 I think is wrong. We have enough grit on the fourth line and need some on the first 3. While I do think Voros and Dubi and Z have lost passion (Can you say Tom Renney? Thats skeptical though), I do think that he is a legit top 3 line foward maybe even top 2 as he demonstrated earlier this season when him Dubes and Z went crashing to the ice after every goal.

  122. Onecup,

    Martin Broduer averaged well over 60+ games a season for the Devils and it seemed to work out pretty well for them.

    No one ever questioned whether he would burn out and they did win 3 Cups.

    If Henrik wants to be in the conversation with the greats, there is no “burning out” or being “played to death”.

    He’s a young guy, he can handle the heavy load.

  123. MAKO,
    I am! I think that when his efficiency goes down the slightest bit, our team can’t win. We need him to be the best goaltender in the league, or else we fail

  124. Kaspar,
    Do you think teams reserve there best shots for the Rangers? Do you think they say hey, we know who we are playing tonight, so we have to make these shots better then last game when we decided to have crappy shots. Teams are getting the normal amount of shots, and of course you can argue that they are above average shots, but there are no stats to back that up. What I’m trying to say is, I think Lundqvist could have stopped at least 2 of those last night if he was on top of his game.

    Pavel,
    I’m not really blaming him. I’m just showing how much our team relies on him. If we had around a 10% average shooting percentage then I could start blaming him, but we don’t.

  125. There are people on this blog actually blaming Lundqvist? Are you f-ing kidding me? You people don’t have a f-ing clue about hockey.

    If you were the goalie and the other team ran at you with impunity, how long would you take it? If the D in front of you never took the body and never cleared the front of the net, would you put up with that? If the leaders on your team playing forward never played the body and only poke checked when the guys they were defending danced in the defensive zone with the puck, would you lose your sharpness? If you had a 2.33 GAA, led the league in wins and minutes played, and your team still was a bunch of pu$$ies who lacked heart and grit and only scored 2.50 goals a game, would your performance start to suffer?

    You idiots blaming anything on Hank are just f-ing dopes who should go play in traffic. Then come back and thank him for the points he has stolen in the shootouts you assclowns!

  126. A 2.33 GAA is not a good thing. That means our team is scoring more goals then the other team. Which means for the games that we have won our GF is higher then the GA. And read my last comment, I know I’m going to have to say it 100 times to explain myself…I’m not blaming Lundqvist, I’m saying when he is not at his personal best, we suck because we need him 100 percent of the time. Without him we are crap. Hence the mark about the shooting percentage

  127. And on the Brodeur comparison….Brandon, here’s one thing I have to add: Gomer and Drury are the only guys on this team who have won a Cup. Every other player needs to prove their worth. (And in fact, Drury and Gomer need to play like they still want to win the Cup.) But to compare Hank to Brodeur in this capacity is misplaced. Brodeur knew there were other guys on the team that gave a crap (they had already won a Cup, he knew they had the ability) and the coaching staff in NJ was not afraid to let players know that they were not giving enough effort. So if Brodeur put in the effort, the other players would step up their game. Not one g-damn Ranger shows Lundy that they care….not one! And Renney doesn’t hold players accountable, so the players don’t care.

    DO NOT BLAME LUNDQVIST.

    Hank is the reason we are above .500 right now.

  128. “Which means for the games that we have won our GF is higher then the GA.” Hahaha…no really?

    The Rangers have one more goal scored than goals allowed. They should be a .500 team without the shootout. What’s worse is that in wins they are an average of 1.2 goals ahead but about 2.2 goals behind in losses…Win small and lose BIG!!

  129. Heck
    I belive Hank has off nights and bad games, last night wasnt his best showing for sure

    I think we agree but are so used to argueing our points; when I defend him to point out errors in the way the Rangers play in front of him; I’m agreeing…we rely WAY TOO MUCH on him

    and my whole point, with Renney anyway, is that he gets away with having a system labeled “defensive’ only because of Hank…who after all is human

    Plus I think the gig is up…

  130. Kaspar,
    I agree

    True Fans,
    I never said he was the problem. I’m saying he’s been the solution. And once that solution starts to fumble the slightest bit, like every goalie and star of the game does, our team starts to suck because we have no offense.

  131. Wait…hold on…I meant I agree with the 4:01 statement. Haha. I love Hank. I actually have a Hank jersey and I hope he thrives and stays with our team for his whole career. Hank for MVP.

  132. True Fans,
    My bad. I don’t want people thinking that I think Hank is the reason we are losing because, to be honestly, you need to score to win games and some of those games that we have lost we either relied on Hank to take us to a shootout or we haven’t scored at all.

  133. onecupin67years on

    Hi Brandon , Like Marty or not he is a great goalie.
    Brodeur had teams in front of him which were great Defensive teams, they limited the shots he got as much as possible , and when Marty had to come up big he did.
    You can’t expect every goalie to play the minutes Marty did, look at him the past several seasons in the playoffs he wasn’t as sharp as he once was, of course age becomes a major factor.

    are there nights when Henrik suck ..sure ,but you can count them on 1 hand.
    And one major problem with the Rangers is that they always seem to have come from behind , Henrik seldom has the night off by a dominating effort by the guys in front of him.

  134. Pavel

    “December 8th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
    And some bloggers are blaming Henrik for the team’s poor performance based upon his goals against average which has recently risen.”

  135. Wait…I have an idea that might completely change this team. Why don’t we try this thing I learned about in science class today…its called winning. Its a concept developed by the ancient Greeks in the mid 1300’s when a man by the name of Arthrocydes developed a sport by the name of “sparring”, the person that became victor was the “winner” and the other man was the loser. I heard it works out great for other teams. We should jump on that boat, I think one of the stops along the way is the Tom Renney fired islands, and hopefully the Rozi traded Panhandle

  136. Onecup

    Good post; Devils ahd run-away defensive confidence; great goaltender and great defensman… Stevens, Danyecko, Neidemeyer and the rest defended, banged, skated and passed the puck out as good as any defensive team ever…

  137. Renney puts the 4th line out in the 3rd period when we desperately needed goals because he thinks he coaches the 06-07 Buffalo Sabres. The man has problems please fire him, Rangers.

  138. “Its a concept developed by the ancient Greeks in the mid 1300’s when a man by the name of Arthrocydes developed a sport by the name of “sparring”, the person that became victor was the “winner” and the other man was the loser”

    Classic; ancient Greece…1300’s… classic
    reminds me of Belushi in Animal house “Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbour!?”

  139. His GAA is worse because of all the odd man rushes we give up, failure to clear the zone and general USELESSNESS against a good forechecking team. :(

  140. onecupin67years on

    Who are the Rangers scouts?
    WE never ,never got the stud offensive player,
    biggest names in the past are leetch and richter who won the cup,they’re hall of famers for sure ,don’t know about Kovalev.

    we always buy the studs after their prime except for messier he was at the end of his best years.
    We bought lafluer geoffrion, shanahan,gretzky, 88. any more?

  141. Here is the funny thing of why this blog is a lot like heated discussions men have with women….

    When a woman yells at you, 80% of the time it is because they are pissed off at something you said or did, or even something that someone else said or did, anywhere from 1 day ago to 2 weeks ago or longer. (BTW of the other 20%, half that time it is because you either left the seat up or left your underwear on the floor and the other half is for no good reason at all.) But I digress…

    I think 80% of the time on this blog when there are heated debates it is because we are just f-ing pissed that the Rangers suck so bad and that there seems to be no leadership. Maybe the other 20% we actually cannot stand the person we are replying to? But then I think about it more and it is more like 10% of the time and the last 10% is for no good reason other than you want to be a d*ck.

    But this blog is funny…sometimes I feel like I am watching (and participating) in pissing matches just cuz people would rather piss.

  142. Hey new newman my calculator broke doin all that math..

    What you mean is we’re idiots 80% of the time and then we sleep; right?

  143. LMFAOOOOO KASPER. Just the name was effin hysterical, I googled it and laughed my ass off for 10 min. Thanks man, I needed that.

  144. “Kaspar,

    you saw two calgary goals last night where they sent one guy for the net and the other passed into the crease to get the goal”
    ________

    Dont forget we saw the same style of goals in the Montreal game as well.

    I mentioned on here a few days ago that I havent seen the rangers score in this manner all season (to the best of my memory).

    The opportunities have been there… but they arent taken.

    With the current personnel, this team is much better suited to an up-tempo, forechecking style, rather than a sit back and play defense style that Renney preaches.

    No, we dont have anyone who is gong to lead the league in scoring. But what we do have, is a team that is capable of haivng very well rounded scoring throughout the lineup.

    The problem lies in that the players that we have are being utilized improperly, which is why there are people who blame th eplayers and people who blame the coach. Both sides are ‘correct’ in a sense… its just different views on what needs to be done to fix it.

    The fact of the matter is that its blatantly obvious that SOMETHING needs to be done.

    Either change up the coaching staff and bring in someone who will preach and up-tempo style that emphasizes this teams strengths…

    Or change up the personnel to a set of players who can play the way Renney wants the team to play.

    I, personally, stand on the side of changing the coaching staff. We take far too many ‘too many men’ penalties, and the other night had 30 seconds where we only had 4 men on the ice.

    Clearly Renney is too busy changing the lineup than he is paying attention to whats actually going on on the ice. The players. Nobody can keep track of who they are playing with and who they should be going on for and all it does is create mass amounts of confusion.

    And I still wouldnt be surprised if Hank asks to be traded. Even a Vezina finalist can be made to look bad when hes hung out to dry night in and night out.

  145. The only team that LQ would want to be traded to would be the Wings. Swede’s o’ plenty. No cap space for him though, unless we get Hossa LOL

    But the chance of that happening, slim to none…

  146. “MAKO

    The only team that LQ would want to be traded to would be the Wings. Swede’s o’ plenty. No cap space for him though, unless we get Hossa LOL

    But the chance of that happening, slim to none…”
    ____________

    Granted Im not him… but if I were LQ i’d take any team that can give me more help than the Rangers do.

    I agree, I doubt hes going anywhere anytime soon. He is, after all, The King of NY. But I wouldnt be surprised if it happened.

    I see him get more and more noticeably agitated (which isnt typical of him) as each game passes and nothing is improved in front of him.

    Frankly, I think he needs to say something to the entire team. Maybe thats the kick in the pants they need… hell, someone has to do it, cuz Renney sure isnt.

  147. I never blamed Henrik. If anything, I implied praise.

    The only reason we’re afloat right now is because of his grit and hustle, which unfortunately has stood high above the rest.

    My only comment was that we don’t need to worry about Renney “buring him out” or “playing him to death”. This is a young guy who’s in the prime of his career. He’s shown he can handle the load and relishes in being relied up night in and night out. He loves to play.

    I say roll him for 65-70; despite playing half decent from time to time, I never feel comfortable with Vally in net… no matter how many times he beats the Flyers.

  148. Im gonna get it for this. But the Wing would be damn near impossible to beat if he was there. Plus he’s be on cloud 9 with all of his countrymen there.

    I see the same things as you do, its a pity these idiots cant get it together. I see that him yelling at Gomez did absolutely nothing.

  149. Couple things:

    1. Anyone that’s blaming Hank has got shit for brains! We would be a 500 team if not for him, and lately the D has been leaving him out to dry!

    2. Dubinsky has been a horror show. Where has he been after the first week of the season?

    3. Gomez is a joke! He is a one man team that can’t seem to play with anyone. Keep your mouth shut Gomez and play the f….in game. I am sick of this shit!

  150. previos years MSG had a show with inside access to the rangers draft. one particular year a Rangers scout recomended drafting a highscool forward with the rangers first pick. Don Maloney laughed him off and drafted Al Montoya. That highscool forward (a junior at the time) was Blake Wheeler. wouldn’t he look nice in Blue right now.

  151. Wouldn’t it be more likely that if push came to shove (and I think we all hope it’s coming to that in a way) wouldn’t management give Hank a say in a trade that would re-shape the D? I think that would be a more realistic outcome than a trade of him from NY…

    With that said, this team is really hamstrung in the cap dept. now and next year presuming you want to hold on to Zherdeve and Staal etc.

  152. Hate to ask to, but say we wanted to “cut” Rosy or Redden b/c we couldn’t trade them…how does that work? Some of you guys really know your contracts / cap rules…would just be curious b/c this might become a factor…

  153. BullDog,

    What are you talking about? Wheeler was 17 when drafted, his birthday is August 31st making him 18 by the time training camps opened and he finished HS when drafted and was playing for the Green Bay Gamblers of the USHL the following year.

    Plus he never signed with the team that drafted him. If the Rangers wanted him that bad, they could have signed this past offseason when he was unrestricted.

    Also, he was drafted 5th overall that year, Montoya was drafted 6th. Even if the Rangers wanted him, he was off the board when it came time for them to draft

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