Let’s revisit this (Updated)


I’m off to catch a train, so I’ll have to chime in with more on the latest debacle in a bit.

Here’s quick summary from the Rangers’ perspective: They did didn’t score early, got frustrated, and then fell apart.

“You can feel the tension and frustration when things aren’t going well,” Drury said. “Maybe if we have that game on the road, it’s 0-0 after two. But we got off page a little bit. And then we started doing things that weren’t in our system.”

Here’s the other possibility: That this is a flawed team that simply came into this afternoon unprepared, and that became more apparent as the game went on.

Updated, 6:38 p.m.: Meanwhile, it shouldn’t come as a surprise that Tom Renney didn’t bite on a question today about Wade Redden.

As long as I’ve been covering the coach, he has refused to single out players who are struggling (the exception being players who Renney has singled out on his own via a benching or a scratch). That a coach chooses not to chastise his players in the press is a mostly admirable trait. But it can be frustrating to reporters who want an answer on a player who has appeared adrift this season. And as much as I like dealing with Renney, it’s part of the reason such questions can be a waste of breath.

“I think it takes on that appearance,” Renney said when asked whether he thought Redden lacks urgency. “I don’t think that’s the case, but it takes on that appearance. Could you not say the same thing about Marc Staal? He’s a calm, cool, collective, poised guy, and I’ve had comments to me that say, ‘Is he engaged? Is he intense?’ I’d have to say yes and so is Wade.”

Of course, most fans would note the difference this season between Redden and Staal is that Staal isn’t beaten to nearly as many pucks, or beaten on as many odd-man rushes. Renney is smart enough to know that difference, too.

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    This is Rangers in a nutshell;

    First period today is wide-open; they had lots of chances; very exciting up and down play;

    In between periods gutless Troutwig interviews Perry pearn and Both of them agree that coaches do not like that type of play; Pearn promises that they will be told to…”tighten it up” during the break

    second period boom boom boom…yes get back to the system boys!

    You know the result

    Fire Renny

    And dont cry “we’re 17-8 how can you do that’

    Its because no one should believe in records at this point of season..we are all smart enough to know that this team, as currently constructed and coached, cannot play with the Penguins-Caps-Sharks-wings-Ducks..unless Hank stands on his head

  2. Repost:

    Great posts guys! Love commiserating with fellow fans.

    Honestly, this was just another Ranger loss on a Sunday afternoon, ones we have seen far too many times in years past.

    What I do not like to se is Henrik throwing his stick, having a temper tantrum on the bench. You are a professional, Henrik, take your lumps, and move on. Obviously easier said than done, but didn’t like to see that and I do not like how he pulled himself from the game last week. I don’t know what that’s all about.

    And oh that’s not all. We have Captain Clutch, Chris Drury throwing his broken stick and hitting the ref. He broke his stick on a 40 ft slapshot and he carries on like that?

    First of all that crap is unacceptable behavior on my bench. And neither Renney or Sather will say a word about it.

    This is such a country club in New York.

    I watched Montreal play the other night. They are not looking good at all right now. I thought they were going to be one of the top four teams in the east and I thought Boston would just get in to the playoffs, boy was I wrong.

    Wade Redden is a waste of space out there and in my opinion there should be lots of scratches next game and a few call-ups on defense.

  3. Great posts guys! Love commiserating with fellow fans.

    Honestly, this was just another Ranger loss on a Sunday afternoon, ones we have seen far too many times in years past.

    What I do not like to se is Henrik throwing his stick, having a temper tantrum on the bench. You are a professional, Henrik, take your lumps, and move on. Obviously easier said than done, but didn’t like to see that and I do not like how he pulled himself from the game last week. I don’t know what that’s all about.

    And oh that’s not all. We have Captain Clutch, Chris Drury throwing his broken stick and hitting the ref. He broke his stick on a 40 ft slapshot and he carries on like that?

    First of all that crap is unacceptable behavior on my bench. And neither Renney or Sather will say a word about it.

    This is such a country club in New York.

    I watched Montreal play the other night. They are not looking good at all right now. I thought they were going to be one of the top four teams in the east and I thought Boston would just get in to the playoffs, boy was I wrong.

    Wade Redden is a waste of space out there and in my opinion there should be lots of scratches next game and a few call-ups on defense.

  4. I left the Garden at the start of the 3rd. That was the worst game I can remember seeing. Get Rozsival off the team, along with Kalinin while you’re at it. Get ANYone on the team to throw consistent hits and stand up at the blueline. Hit the net once in a while – it’s that red thing with the mesh between the posts.


  5. The post-game media session with Renney was hilarious regarding Redden. Everyone knows he is and has been dreadful, horrible, an astonishing bust, and one guy tried to sound out Renney about Redden’s lowkey (ahem) style of play that might (ahem) suggest there is an absence (ahem) of urgency.

    Amazing that no one has the sack to ask a very simple question such as those that are asked of the baseball managers in this town every freaking day!

    “Tom, Redden has clearly been terrible. How do you get him to play better?”

  6. watch it kaspar – the ruler of the board will tell you to die in a bus fire with talk like the last paragraph

  7. All Hail King Henrik on

    What the Heck,

    I, too, would probably take the same contract to play for the cup in an city other than New York if I was Hank. And you’re right–I also DOUBT that he came over saying that New York was the only team he wanted to play for.

    HOWEVER, that was then, this is now. Now, he IS the KING of NY, and I’m sure he doesn’t want that to change. I wouldn’t worry about him going anywhere at this point. Like I said in my last post, all else equal, would you rather plan at MSG or somewhere else (even the contenders you mentioned–Boston Gardens, Joe Louis Arena, etc.) Hank IS NY.

    On another topic, I LOATHE day games; I always have. Hockey should be played AT NIGHT; I despise watching games during the day. None of this is helped by the fact that the Rangers record in day games has been horrible the past few seasons. End the Matinees…7PM faceoffs ONLY, or even better–7:30.

  8. sorry for the two posts all.

    I have a question about our defense.

    WHy is it that the same 6 have played night in and night out on this team? I mean, each of these guys knows they aren’t coming out of the lineup, so what’s their motivation to play harder? Why isn’t there anybody in the AHL pushing these guys out of the lineup? I mean they changed those rules about call-ups and not having to clear waivers for some players, so why aren’t there new faces in this lineup every now and then?

    IMO Korpikoski should be sent down to the AHL and not get infested with this crap style of hockey Renney plays. There’s obviously no room for any type of freedom to be creative on this team so why infect him? At last put Rissmiller or Dawes in there and let the kid score goals in the AHL.

  9. Lou Lamoriello on

    Any chance Renney would have a job if I was the Rangers GM?

    PS Perry Pearn would have been gone well before Renney…..

  10. Kaspar
    You are right is saying that. I believe this team does have talent. It all depend on what night the “talent” wants to show up. This team is perfectly capable of being a top tier team, but only on nights they want to show up. Their in lies the coaching staff. The coaching staff SHOULD get the very best out of their players. If not then bring someone in behind closed doors to get their heads straight. Motivational coach or a sports psychologist. What is the harm in that?

    I dont mind seeing passion like that out of a player. LQ wants to win night in and night out. He has commented that he is VERY competitive. And yes he is human. He has emotions just like all of us. He is professional but mostly all players show emotion at one point or another. Just think about what we DONT see when the camera go off and doors are closed…
    But you are right and I think we will all agree that Redden is a waste of space. Perhaps you should all google his wedding pics and see what his wife looks like, maybe the honeymoon really isnt over. LOL

  11. Vogs you r right
    Prucha, Dawes and now Dubi ,right before our eyes, getting the fake system jammed down their throat and getting stagnant

  12. All I can say about the Rangers game today is: GREAT WIN BY THE GIANTS!!!!

    Alright; Redden stinks! THE PP is awful. Time to get Prucha in for a game, ditto for Dawes.

    Another thing; look, I don’t want to sound ungrateful for the 94 team and I am grateful for everything they did for this franchise and the fans, but can MSG Network please stop ramming 94 down our throats with this greatest hockey endings crap already?

    I’ll love 94 forever (91-92 was pretty good too) but I WANT MORE. We deserve more as fans and the city deserves more. We’ve had stupid management run this team for a decent amount of it’s existence, the personnel has been fine.

    Hey Red Dutton, I hope you read this, here’s the one-fingered bird salute to you.

  13. vogs roster limit 23. they have 15 forwards and 2 goalies leaving 6 dmen. and the only forward who can freely move from nhl to ahl is korpo. at some point 1 of the forwards will have to be moved for extra cap space (and possibly to have the 7th dman you mentioned)

  14. Lou Lamoriello on

    I’m trusting Slats won’t make any changes any time soon. We’re relying on that here on the other side of the River.

    If the Rangers can’t execute a Power Play, exactly what would be the deterrent to physically man handling this team any time you play them?

  15. Lou
    That is the worst part of the failure of the PP..hey? why not run the goalie too right, break LQ’s arm or something

    By the way..any chance of you firing Renney for us and getting your little Rlmer J Fudd looking self behind the bench?

  16. I have a question. Following hockey all my life and playing it most of my life. Why OH WHY does Renney just put the 1st and 2nd line out on the PP? Why not mix the players from the top 3 lines up? I dont understand this concept? And consistently putting the most inept defenseman out on the point? Why not try a 4th forward? Why not try something new?

  17. come on Renny backers, we need to hear what you think will make this team play hard, play with heart and guts that is not there now for a month! that;s the first thing, play hard evry shift and then worry about whsoe roster is better, wash (? really? with Poti and that goaltending?) or anyone else

  18. Lou Lamoriello on


    Sorry…Can’t break my Contract. So don’t expect to see my Elmer Fudd impression back there any time soon..

    Oh yeah…Heckuva an idea about running the Goalie. I’ll have to speak to Brent about it…

  19. Kaspar

    you are right… They were head hunting LQ’s most of the game with high shots. Was anything said about it? Probably not.

  20. MAKO — Very simple answer to your question: Because Renney is afraid. He cares more about pleasing Sather than he does about winning.

  21. Dubi or not Dubi on

    Kaspar, in case you didn’t check the board early this morning, here is what I wrote at 8:34…

    “Agreed with Salty on the “Exciting Hockey”. The Rangers play anything BUT exciting hockey. My favorite is when they play a wide open (AKA Exciting) first period (Which has happened like, four times this year), the first thing Perry Pearn tells John Giannone is that they need to tighten up. They PREACH boring hockey, the problem is that the boring hockey leads to moments of wanting to pull my hair out from the defensive lapses.”

    Kind of funny how that works huh!?

    I’m very glad they played at the same time as the Giants today. I was planning on watching the replay at 8 tonight, but it doesn’t look like that will happen now.

  22. Lou Lamoriello on

    If it were me, I would:

    Put Redden on Waivers. If anyone would be stupid enough to claim him, there would be cap space, if not, send him to Hartford, which would also clear up cap space.

    Bring in someone else to run the special teams

    Fire Renney

    Get tougher and hungrier….quickly

  23. I asked Stema today what he thought of wade redden and he said he is average, he is making toooooo much money. I agreed with him. I actually think this whole team is full of crap. I am up for anything I am throwing in the towel after days like this.

  24. Dubi or not

    You know what? I do remember reading that this morning or last night

    Thats dead on! It came true almost word for word and this buttkisser Trouthead and Pearn are laughing about it AND saying they must do it!!

    Dont go near Hank….he knows Karate

  25. czechthemout!!!!! on

    What a pathetic display of crap the last three ghames to two of the worst teams in the league! Two OT wins and an embarrassing shutout loss at home. The team was once again not prepared to play.That being said,they still had a decent first period and could have easily won this game on talent alone.But no,Pern told an MSG shill after the first that they would tighten up.That sure worked well didn’t it?

    I won’t go on a long rant but it is more and more obvious that Tom Renney needs to be replaced and soon while it’s still early enough to make a difference.I really beleive that this team could start a free fall now that their schedual is about to get significantly tougher.

    RENNEY MUST GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  26. GardenFaithfulinFLA on

    C’mon folks – the Rangers had success today. They successfully showed all the kids at Kid’s Day “how not to play hockey”.

  27. LI Joe:

    I am aware of the roster limit, but what exactly is going on with the management of this team?

    They sign guys like Rissmiller, Fritche, Prucha and Dawes and then they sit in the stands.

    What do we need all these guys for? Get em outta there via trade or move to Hartford and get some bodies on defense, it’s 1/3rd the way through the season and neither Renney or Sather can figure out who’s going to be in New York all season?

    If you’re going to make an offer to Zherdev than clear up some space on the roster. There’s just no acountability on this team.

  28. This redden is the biggest clown I have ever seen. Someone light a fire under his ass

    Here’s a good one for you hockey nuts – the two worst things said on/by the Rangers this season:
    1. We need a guy to finally be able to work the powerplay, a la Leetch – Redden will be the quarterback of the powerplay. Ha what a joke that is!

    2. Who said this? I have a hard time shooting the puck if it is not a perfect pass. Not a direct quote but you get the idea. What a pathetic statemmt to make! He has def. gotta go. I can’t believe the media gave him a pass on that ridiculous statement.

    This team’s in trouble!!

  29. MAKO –

    I certainly think it is the job of the professional athlete to display sportsmanship when things are going well, but most importantly when they are not.

    Kids all over the Garden today and our captain throws his stick and our goalie throws a tantrum on the bench.

    Sorry, they’d both be fined. Hit em in the paycheck.

  30. Here’s my solution:

    1.) Trade our constant scratches and/or underperformers
    2.) Call up Potter
    3.) Bench Rozsival for 5 games

    If that doesn’t shake things up, then fire Renney. No excuses.

  31. vogs – fritsche was a trade after they signed voros and rissmiller (part of the z trade). roster limit for this yr has no effect on signing z for next yr unless someone like rozy or redden is somehow dealt. if somehow the Rangers wind up $ 1 mm under the cap this yr they can not use that towards next yrs cap.

  32. pavel – the team has been very lucky this yr with only Gomez being injured. that won’t last. so maybe they can jettsion 1 forward (doubt any of the extras have any real mkt value so trade is debateable) but they need a couple of extras for when injuries do come.

  33. What I find most upsetting about today is that it wasn’t a surprise. I watched the first period, kinda enjoyed it. Missed the first part of the second, and when I tuned it by then it was 3-0 and I wasn’t even phased. I was surprised, but not shocked. That’s awful!! Before last week, I would have been knocked off my feet if I saw that. But this team seems to have that lazy, “we’ll get it done in the last 2-3 minutes, or shootout and just let Hank do all the work” mentality.

    Three Rangers are getting a raw deal right now: Staal (paird with Bozsival), Prucha, and Lundqvist.

  34. Dubi or not Dubi on

    Is it bad that I am almost happy that they lost badly? I really do feel like this team needs to take a step back in order to take two steps forward. I think the management from top to bottom needs to be changed. Sather is definitely a worse GM than Renney is coach. Sather has been around for 10 frigin years now! All he has done was sign lots of big name free agents, clean house, and now back to signing big name free agents for too much money. Of course he created a team built for speed and forecheck, and the coach refuses to play that time of game, so who knows…

  35. OK, lets start about what this team needs on the ice.

    First and foremost, some solid defense. Bring in a 7th D-man and let the boys earn their spot on the ice. Once that is established it will let Staal and Mara (maybe even others) work on their offensive game….but Defense must come first.

    Our offense needs a spark, what that is, I don’t know. Might even be Shanahan…or that 7th D-man. Renney could only hope they find that spark or I could forsee him being out of the system in the next 1 or two years.

  36. the problems with the Rozivals-Drury and Gomez is that they are exactly what they always were…except they are getting paid like they’re Lidstrom-Hossa and Crosby

    Redden is kind of the same story….

    Its big bucks and long terms that make these guys look like they’re under-preforming when they are playing like they always did…we expect more because of the money

  37. DR HOUSE

    That’s exactly the problem, though! There is NO accountability on the team. Rozsival and Kalinin (-10! Minus freaking ten) can continue to suck with impunity, never be called out by the coach on it, and never have any risk of losing their spot to an up-and-comer. The Rangers desperately need a seventh defenseman to breathe down the other 6’s necks for their job.

    Get Prucha out of town for a bag of pucks, bring up Corey Potter or Bobby Sangs for a game, sit down Rozsival, and see what clicks. Honestly, what do they stand do lose by trying this at this point? They’re playing miserable lazy hockey, barely squeaking out wins in OT over garbage teams, or being blown out. And their schedule’s about to get a lot tougher than it has been…

  38. Took my little 7 yr. old nephew to the game today. Aside from the obvious nothing to cheer for, stinker of a game played by the home team the Rangers billed this as “kids day.” Kids, day – shouldn’t that mean giving these future fans a little trinket when they walk in the door? A poster, a towel, a cheap pennant, a pin? Something? How cheap of management to ignore the opportunity to give the little kids a small thrill.

  39. i honestly think Slats screwed us this year. How dumb is he? seriously.

    Stop trying to sit Rozsival he hasnt been that bad these past few games. Why dont you get on Wade Redden he aint no bargain.

  40. RetireBradPark's#2 on

    After today’s disgrace, I’d like to think Renney told his team, “Get a good night’s rest. You’re not going to like tomorrow’s practice.”

    I’d like to think. I’m sure he didn’t.

    Yet another day Wade Redden didn’t earn the $79,268 he was paid.

  41. Did you watch today? Rozsival is useless. Redden blows too, I never said he didn’t. Staal Mara and Girardi stay, the other three can be shot out of a cannon into the sun for all I care. Redden probably keeps getting distracted by the snow on the ice and thinking it’s coke.

  42. The only way this Ranger team wins is by playing solid defense, generating a consistent forecheck, scoring on the powerplay and simply outworking the other team. The Rangers cannot play exciting, wide-open hockey–they simply do not have the players. If the Rangers are going to win this season, “boring” hockey is the only way.

  43. It was matinee game; not to make excuses which is dumb but the Rangers have never been a good 1 PM team.

    They should hire Tom Coughlin for like a day or two and have him get in their faces.

  44. ALL HAIL,
    I really hope you are right. This team would be terrible without him.

    MAKO, Kaspar,
    When was the last time Zherdev tried to fly down the ice and pull a thousand moves to get to the front of the goal. I feel like in the beginning of the season he was dipsy-doodling everywhere and now he will only try moves every once in a little while.

    Also when was the last time you saw a real goal celebration. Do you remember the beginning of the season when Voros, Dubi, and Z used to go nuts after scoring? Where’d that go?

    Holy crap! Someone actually said it. I hate that every 5 minutes I’m supposed to watch Mattheu score and then I have to watch them win the cup again and again. Didn’t they just do the same concept for a video like last week? All the time, thats all I hear.

    Regarding your statement at 6:57. After the first 3 goals I really wanted the Rangers to get completely shelled so that people could clearly see that there is something wrong with us. We need a change very badly. I also was hopping for another sh goal so we could change that up as well. I would say the only untouchables on our team are Staal, Dubi, Z, Hank obviously, Mara, Callahan, Voros, Korpi, and Betts. I wouldn’t mind trading anyone else on this team.

    Michal Blowsitall. I like that. I actually think he had a good game today…but his good game isn’t the game we need. We need more.

    And perhaps we could use that bag of pucks that we will trade for Prucha to learn how to shoot on net. Everytime its either in the goalies chest, or its wide or high. We need somebody that can snipe. Maybe Sundin?

    79,268 for not working hard for 3.5 hours. I just worked for 5 hours and got paid 50 plus made 20 in tips. I thought I had it good.

  45. There needs to be a 7th Dman on the roster. It doesn’t hurt to sit a guy for a game or two to “watch”. These guys have no accountability. That 7th Dman would have these guys looking over their shoulder. That would be all the motivation they need.

  46. We have all heard the Perry Pearn intermission report today about how we need to make everything boring…and know how that worked out.

    Here is a quote from Lundy and others

    Asked what he was most upset about during the game:
    He answered…”For letting in three goals quickly and not being able to finish the game, obviously I want to play. I compete. If i dont get to finish the game of course I get upset and dissapointed.
    Stan Fischler added: “You weren’t getting a lot of help”
    Henrik:It doesn’t matter. I play my game and we all try to work hard out there…..”If you think I’m going to be sitting on the bench and smiling and satisfied you don’t know me”

    Scott Gomez later on was talking like nothing had happened at all. He didn’t blame himself or anyone on the team. He didn’t say they got outworked. He just said they are a “good team and worked hard”. Then he joked about a reporters outfit so he could get out of the serious mood. Great way to bail from the Alternate captain. He needs to wipe that cocky smile off his face after a game like this. Then Stan said it was the day after Thanksgiving…check whats in that pipe of his.

    “We had a couple of nice wins in this last little while(really these wins have been nice?), one against this team here”
    Then he addressed that nobody backs Henrik up.

  47. No one can score. Again. Expecting Drury or Gomez to be superstars is a joke. And Fritsche and Callahan are so valuable that Prucha can’t get in a game? Please. Of course he doesn’t want to go to Hartford — that’s where players go and don’t come back. Either play him or trade him, but don’t pretend he’s worse than most of the forwards on this team.

  48. And one last thing: Who are we expecting finishing from?
    Gomez?-Never scored more then 19 goals in his career
    Drury?-Had 2 great seasons with Buffalo (an offensive minded team those years), but other than that has never scored more then 25.
    Callahan?-Never gotten more then 10 and is a consistent third liner
    Zherdev?-The coach isn’t letting Z play his style and will not score more then 25 because of that
    Naslund?-will probably get 25-30 goals
    Dubinsky?-Seriously declining in play. He looked amazing last year, but then again he did have a HOF next to him in Jaromir Jagr. No matter what people say, JJ always made the people he played with better and I would have loved to have him back this season
    Third line?-With the amount of playing time there receiving you can think again
    Fourth line?-Haha.
    Redden, Rozi?-the great PP QB’s that replaced Jags. Jags was holding Rozi back last year…They are doing an amazing job so far.
    Girardi, Kalinin, Mara, Staal?-None of them have a nice shot, but they are all getting more points then the two above because they throw the puck on the net.

    Anyways-my point is we don’g have anyone to rely on to put the puck in the net on a consistent basis anymore and I honestly don’t even see us making the playoffs anymore after today’s performance.

    Maybe this is all just frustration from today though?

  49. REPOST(in light of Sam’s update)

    November 30th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
    The post-game media session with Renney was hilarious regarding Redden. Everyone knows he is and has been dreadful, horrible, an astonishing bust, and one guy tried to sound out Renney about Redden’s lowkey (ahem) style of play that might (ahem) suggest there is an absence (ahem) of urgency.

    Amazing that no one has the sack to ask a very simple question such as those that are asked of the baseball managers in this town every freaking day!

    “Tom, Redden has clearly been terrible. How do you get him to play better?”


    What does it tell you about Renney that he would use Staal (!), totally unbidden, to cover Redden’s ass. As if their play has even been close to comparable! Disgusting to slime Staal that way.

    This laughable denial of Redden’s abysmal play is rooted in one thing: Fear of pissing Sather off. And that is why it is very hard to respect Renney in any meaningful way.

  50. All I know is I’m getting sick of Redden.
    And I’m sick of assholes fans booing Rozi, it accomplishes nothing and does nothing to help him regain confidence. Face it he isn’t going anywhere, so we might as well root for the guy to play the best he is capable.
    As far as money goes, I had nothing to do with contracts but frankly Rozi and Redden for that matter are grossly overpaid. Mara is doing an absolute bang up job and he makes a million and in my book he should be making 3.5 mi a season.

  51. alex b (the poster formely known as czechthemout!!!!) on

    what the heck-

    Your comments about dubi are simply wrong.He has 16 pts so far this year after about 27 games.He only scored 40 pts last year,so he’s on pace to surpass that amount.The problem with what’s happened with him is the moron behind the bench decided to breakup his line for several games and it through him off a little.I will say that he has played a couple of bad games but certainly much less so than most of the other so called stars.He helped jagr more than Jagr helped him as eveidenced by Jagr’s improved play after they were matched up.

    The problem on this team is that Renney is killing the development of many of our youg players.He is stifling their creativity if god forbid they make one mistake,while he coddles his favorites and brown noses the vets that Sather signed for ridiculous contracts in an attempt to be a team player with cigar puss.

    I appreciate your frustration,but like some on this board it is misdirected in some instances at the wrong players and not at the horrid coaching and managment.

  52. I really wanna see what Potter can do already. I don’t expect him to be Bobby Orr or even James Patrick, but heck, he’d push guys.

    As far as a D plan for the Rangers, here’s my looney idea; let Kalinin walk after this year and sign Bouwmeester for $4.5 million. Waive Redden and send him to Hartford and keep him there until he’s had enough and will take a trade to anywhere.

    Yeah it’s a lot of money, but it’s the Dolans money and they owe it to put the best product on the ice.

    What The Heck-As I said I’m forever thankful for 94 but after Graves Night, I really want all this stroking of 94 to end at least until the 20th Anniversary. Let’s build some new memories and if not something like 94 in the immediate future, I’ll take something like 79 or 86 in the next 2-3 years.

    Here’s my arrogant conceited statement tonight; the Rangers will not be true contenders until Anisomov, Grachev, Del Zotto, and Bobby Sags are ready for Prime Time with a Fouth Line led by Hagelin that can score.

  53. onecupin67years on

    Start trading.. even Hank. you don’t need a superstar goalie to win the cup. look at Osgood, surround an average goalie , not Valle or Weeks type,with solid players and you’ll win, but the Rangers screw up everything,their scouts stink, just look at their picks and free agent signings, player development is for the birds.

  54. staal – mara is approx $ 2 mm (still reasonable)

    alex b czechthemout – if blame renney for dubi you should also blame for drury and gomez. otherwise your comments appear biased in favor of certain youth over some vets. might just be the style of play Renney approaches the game with that stifles ALL his offensive players

  55. I think our 3rd line is the worst in hockey history. Fritsche is lucky to have a job and Voros is no more than a 4th liner. Korpikoski is being wasted playing with these two.

  56. Renney and the other coaches have to have the Rangers play a tight, defensive game because the team simply doesn’t have the offensive talent to win in a loose system. Tell yourself whatever you want, but if the Ranger coaches let these young guys just open it up, the Rangers defense would get even more exposed for the mediocre corps it is, and Hank would get shelled.

    That’s why the entire key to the Rangers is the awful, awful power play. It should be what allows the Rangers to score enough goals to win. Too bad it’s beyond shameful.

    Beyond Hank, the Ranger players are simply not great. Perhaps Staal will be a special player. Beyond that, I’m not convinced any of them are superstars. Which is what true championship teams need.

    Of course, watching the Rangers win is awesome and I hope they get back to doing it and I hope more than that they prove me wrong by winning a cup with a team of journeyman (and a Vezina caliber netminder!).

  57. ALEX B,
    Believe me, Dubi is my favorite player by far. He works hard and always seems to have a knack for where he needs to be. I’ve just noticed his finishing abilities declining and I hope it does not continue on. Also I don’t think you can say that Jags didn’t help Dubi at all. He was his mentor the same way he helped Nylander, Prucha, Straka, Cherepanov. Dubi became so much stronger because of Jags, I just hope he mantains it.

    If you read in my posts somewhere, I put him as an untouchable and as soon as he signs a deal with the Rangers I am getting his jersey.

    Did you just honestly say trade Hank? He is the only good deal we have. I think I would trade Hank for one person…Alexander Ovechkin, and there is only so much he can do as well. That comment was ludicrous.

    MIKE A,
    I was not alive for the 79 or 86 playoffs so I don’t know much about it. I can tell ya that they didn’t win the Cup and in my eyes, I just want to build a team that will earn there money and take me to a cup. This was the team Renney wanted, now lets see what he can do with it.

  58. Rob,
    That is why they created all of the offense against the Panthers in Florida? Voros is right at the top of the list for goals and scored when he was on the top 2 lines. I’m sorry, but if you are going to say that the third line is the worst line ever, then you need to say our first two lines are just as bad because they have seen much less production put together then the 3rd line with double the time played on the ice.

    The problem with playing a defensive minded game is you need to have a strong defense for that and a offense that can turn it on when need be. The best moments of the Rangers has been when they get rid of the defense first mindset and go on an offensive mean streak. Thats why we are so productive in games that we are trailing in the third period. If we played like that all the time, we would be a playoff contendor. Unfortunaly we only play 20 minute games and only think about our D when we severely need production up front

  59. sather took this exciting team of a year ago with Avery and a superstar in Jagr and has completely ruined this team for the next 6 years with Redden and Rozival. 6.5 a year for Redden? are you kidding me? He is a mirror image of Marek Malik. We could have Sundin right now, or Bouwmeister next year. Sather u suck.

  60. What the Heck –

    I share most of those sentiments with you.

    Gomez only scored 33 goals one other time in his career other than the 19 you mentioned. My problem with him is he has a head of steam with the puck and 65% of the time he looses it at the offensive blue line or attempts to make a pass and its in someone’s skates.

    You can see LQ’s emotion in the interview. But Gomez kills me with that cocky “everything’s” ok smile. It really drives me crazy.

    Im sure the coaching staff said something to Zherdev about his dipsy doodling. I mean if the kid has skills let him show them. What’s wrong with letting the kid showcase his talent. BUT give him back up puck support, just incase he coughs it up.

    On that player list. You missed Sjostrom. I’ve read some negative comments about him. But this kid is a great hockey player. He is a VERY smart two way player. If you remember the Pens series he played Malkin very tight and stopped him from scoring a few times. He really should be on the third or second line. He has size and strength and works hard every shift. Again misused do to Renney’s “system”.

    Im afraid of the trend that is setting in with this group its gonna be a messy December,…

  61. eric – sather has made some big mistakes as you pointed out. redden for 6 yrs and rozy for 4. also relatively poor drafting especially in 1st rd.

    i’m not so sure they were always that exciting last yr. JJ didn’t really try until end of season and playoffs. Avery and Dallas is near bottom of league. 4 yrs was 2 yrs too long for him.

    I doubt either Redden or Rozy will finish his contract here.

  62. alex b (the poster formely known as czechthemout!!!!) on

    LI Joe-

    I blame Renney for not only Dubi,I blame Renney for distroying Peter Prucha’s career after a 30g and 24 g seasons.I blame Renney for playing both Gomez and Drury with the wrong players.I blame Renney for his double standard when it applies to accountability.I blame Renney for not playing Dane Byers instead of Colton Orr thus getting a promising tough player who hits and can score injured by a useless scrub in the minors.I blame renney for overplaying Betts.I blame Renney for not recognizing that Lundquist was better than Weeks until Weeks was injured and Renney was forced to play him.I blame Renney for blowing the Buffulo series,the Penguins series last year.I blame Renney for J.Ward,Jason Krog,Brad Shitsbister over Ryan Callahan.I blame Renney for not being able to force his team to play with passion,to make his team dictate the style of play in a game,to make in game adjustments,when plan A is not working.I balme Renney for having a shitty powerplay now for 3 1/2 seasons and not be able to fix it.I balme Renney for trying to defend Redden’s awfull play by comparing his play with Staal’s.Redden can not even touch his kock strap!.

  63. MAKO,
    I almost threw Sjostrom onto the list. I had him written down but then deleted him. I just feel that he is not an “untouchable”. He has showed great poise, but nothing really stands out about him. The problem with the “untouchable list is half of them are not signed for next year and we are going to have to put some of them on the market. We are screwed over for many years to come because of some of these bonehead signings. Can you just imagine Jags and a solid D being out there with this team instead of Naslund and Redden (combined for over 10 mil per year). We would be a dominant force.

    This December will be a hard one, but nevertheless, Im am Rangers fan through and through and will watch them till the end.

    LI joe,
    I really hope your right, but other managers aren’t as dumb as Sather and will know that he made a dumb mistake. So who would honestly pick up their rediculous contracts?

    I’m guessing you don’t like Renney?

  64. alex agree on some disagree on others.

    don’t agree on Weekes vs Henrik (he came to Henrik faster than you think despite what he said publicly). plus that is very old news.

    Gomez Drury more about Renneys style than playing with wrong players.

    can’t blame him for Byers injury and Orr has played well. plus Dolan has insisted on orr playing every game since the Philly fiasco.

    Buffalo was not really Renneys fault but rather bad karma and the icing that kept tired palyers out there. Pitt was far better than us so definitely not on Renney.

    Redden is terrible. that is on whoever decided to sign him and whoever recommended him.

  65. alex, i agree with many of your points.

    You summarize Renney’s faults pretty succinctly. I think Betts and Orr play their roles well, but playing them 14-17 minutes a game is obviously too much. I think Redden has been bad, but Weinman’s doing a good job drawing the limelight away from Rozsival (who has been our worst defensmen all year). Sam even said something to the effect of “redden will be able to escape the spotlight with the fans X now marking Rozsival…” whatever, that’s him doing his thing. He’s got his favorites (Drury & Rozsival), but it makes me sick to eschew the responsibility from them by throwing Naslund uder the bus (4-5 weeks ago when Drury was struggling) and calling Redden out (the last 3 weeks).

    I hate how our “first line” which is worth about $15.5million looks like a third line. I hate that Lundqvist’s chance of having AWESOME numbers this year is being jeopardized by a bunch of lazy bastids who are afraid to take or give a body check. I hate how Prucha just rots. I hate how Dubi and Z get benched if they don’t score but Drury and Gomez get 3x as much skating and PP time to “get them going.” I hate how Z gets sat a period for a penalty but Drury gets extra time when he lets up two SH goals in the same game…these are ALL things Renney needs to correct. I don’t care how badly Sather has organized this team nor do I care how many players he’s over-paying. Renney’s got a job to do and in my book, the same defensive lapses and weak offensive production that we all saw starting from game 3 or 4 is the same crap we’re now seeing…fix it! The formula is broken. Sit a veteran, for goodness sakes! If they suck, sit them! Anyone who’s bagging it out there shouldn’t get another shift, that punishment shouldn’t just be reserved for the younger players.

    Anyway enough ranting for now – I’m really dissapointed we havent gotten out of this funk yet, what’s scarier is that I don’t know what they need to do to fix it.

  66. What the heck – i see rozy going back to europe like the other kaspar did – loophole in cba. redden will be bought out no later than when cba ends and teams will most likely be allowed that tactic like the rangers did with holik.

    I don’t see other teams making deals for them but there are other ways around it.

  67. What The Heck-I wasn’t born for 79 and in 86 I was 5 years old and the only sports words I knew were “Let’s Go Mets” but after following the Rangers since 1989, I know that neither of those teams had a true superstar and both relied on goaltending and solid team play to get as far as they did. Heck, from talking to Rangers fans the 86 team was VERY mediocre and just got hot at the right time.

    Renney isn’t a perfect coach, but I’ll take him over any of the garbage they’ve had at the end of the Smith run and beginning of the Sather regime. He’s got this team to the playoffs three years in a row and has restored the culture and made the Rangers into a respected team. He may very well not be the guy that gets the Cup to NY, but he’s the man for now.

  68. “He’s got this team to the playoffs three years in a row and has restored the culture and made the Rangers into a respected team. He may very well not be the guy that gets the Cup to NY, but he’s the man for now.”

    Good quote, alot to digest, and here’s my take…
    I don’t want a coach who can “make the playoffs” and I don’t want the guy who is “the man for now.” Mediocrity is great, except when it’s been earned on the backs of Jagr, Lundqvist and even Sean F’ing Avery (who sparked this team into the playoffs 2 years in a row). I bet most of the slouches post-Keenan, pre-Renney, would have made the playoffs with Lundqvist and Jagr. And because of that, defining Renney’s true successes is extremely difficult, they are intertwined with the success of players who have led this team to the playoffs.

    This year, you could make the case that Lundqvist is carrying Renney once again and while I want Hank to do well, he’s only compensating for poor coaching, horrid defensive play, and a PP that never gets revamped.

  69. TRUE FANS,
    Good point with the problems that need to be fixed have been the same problems and nothing has been changed. Put a 4th offensive player on the PP, do something. FIRE PP.

    LI JOE,
    I really hope you are right. How long do you think it will be?

    I only finally developed the concept of hockey in 94 when the Rangers won it all. I was only 5 at the time but I still remember it like it was yesterday. Also I agree with the Renney comment. He has been the best coach since Keenan, but that is really not saying much. I think once a GOOD coach gets on the market I think we could fire him, but right now he is the best for the job unfortunately.

  70. Joe, what hatred? There is differential treatment of young players when they struggle and the big-contract players (who seem to get MORE support and MORE ice time). That’s not hating on Drury dude. I know you and he have a retirement fund together and plan to move to the Riviera where you’ll mother his children, but give it a break. I’m not bashing him no matter how hard you try to twist my words.

    BTW: Why are you hating on Dubinsky? He’s +5 for the season and your Hubbie is a -5. Are you F’ing Tom Renney?! I mean, I know you’re already F’ing Drury, but are you ACTUALLY Tom Renney hating the young kids and man-crushing Chris D?


  71. what the heck – i think rozy will be gone after this season. cap will come down and z and dubi will get more money (although in dubi’s case not the lotto numbers some think especially since the Rangers can bring him to arb).

    i hope they can keep mara but only if he and his agent are reasonable. i am not at all concerned about prucha or dawes leaving. hope rissmiller can somehow be gone too. cally should be kept for reasonable number especially since his production has been ok but certainly not worthy of great salary increase.

    redden, unfortunately, will be 3 yrs including this one since that is when cba ends.

  72. onecupin67years on

    This team lack an offensive catalyst , Avery was the closest one they had ,when he scored the rangers won and were a better team with him, but thats the past. So far no one has stepped up, including Drury , Gomez and etc.
    I don’t think Sather, Renney and the Dolans are happy with this teams chemistry despite being in 1st place, I think its a matter of time with a few losing streaks that they fall from grace.
    They traded Ward and other FA signings when they were busts, lets hope they make some good moves.I would be open to trade anyone on this team for the right price ,including Dubi,hank, staal etc, if it makes them a better team.
    It sounds radical and some moves won’t happen, but this team instead of getting better every year becomes uncertain, great goalie, so so D and very anemic scoring.

  73. true fans – (aka my 2nd fav poster)

    i appreciate what Drury and Gomez bring to table. despite what you think there is no man love going on. Drury is at or near the top in goals, kills pk, is often in front of opposing teams net.

    I resent the youth brigades attempts to throw him or gomez under the bus. the Rangers are a team and despite what some think 1 line won’t do it all by themselves (meaning the dubinsky line that some are crowning as be all end all). and we are not ready for a 22 yr old captain.

  74. True Fans,
    Its crazy to see that Voros has the best shooting percentage, but seems to get little to no time now. Even when he had the hottest line in Florida he got little time.

    LI Joe,
    I was one of those rediculous people with the insane 7 mil dollar contract people. I honestly wish that Drury or Gomez would be traded as well. They are great players undoubtedly. But I could see us getting 3 or 4 great players for the 14 million we’d have in our pockets. Any chance of that happening?

  75. Joe,
    Thank you (I take that as a compliment).

    I’m not calling for Dubi to be captain. I’m not saying the Rangers would be a better team if they used rookies instead of Gomez or Drury, they would be a worse team without a doubt. Discounting Sather’s hand in all this, Gomez and Drury show up and work hard almost every day. They’re grind-it-out kinda players. Renney treats them differently than the rookies, and that’s what bothers me. When Drury was slumping, that bothered me too. But that’s NOT what I’m upset about right now.

    It would be *nice* if the top line (aka Drury-Gomez-Callahan) line produced more and/or played more of a puck possession game, but I don’t expect them too. That said, there are certainly expectations of a line that makes close to $16million but, again, that disgruntlement can *only* be addressed to Glenn Sather, not necessarily those players right now.

  76. As I said Renny makes a good assistant coach or a scout . Get Messier behind the bench and add a speedster who can fight and hit. Trade Dawes and Prucha for tougher and gritter guys . We lost Avery’s speed and tenacity . We need that back!! Voros is tough but we need speed . We haven’t got guys like TOOTOO from Nash or back in 94 we picked up grinders and hitters , Matteauuu and other fiesty Peca types. Peca would have been good but then again he is too small. We are going with 2 softies in Gomez and small Drury that we need some larger grittier guys to complement them.
    Dubinsky is a step in the right direction and Naslund is what he is ..just plain good. He has been throwing check and he shouldnt be the guy. If we are gonna take a run at this thing then maybe Shannys toughness is what we are missing..old n slow sometime wins the race.

  77. LI Joe — Pittsburgh may have been the better team last spring, but they were not 4-1 better than the Rangers. That is a wipe-out, and the the teams were far more matched than that score indicates, and that is absolutely within a coach’s fault radius. Therrien totally outcoached Renney in the media and on the ice; Renney could do nothing to stem the panic in Game 1 once the 3-0 lead was cut into; Renney putting Hollweg on the ice in Game 4 right after the comeback is out-and-out malpractice.

    Buffalo? Bad karma? You’re too good for that one, Joe!

    And remember who those tired players were on the ice after that icing? Jagr-Nylander-Straka. Even Renney himself said he blew it there with having that line out there then, so that’s a settled issue.

  78. what the heck – short answer NO

    at least 1 maybe both has a no trade 1st of all.
    2nd – very few players who are really worth anything will reach free agency. the player who you covet will be the next one you want gone. the Ao, iginla, Sid, Malkin Joe Thorton types do not reach free agency. there certainly won’t be 3 or 4 of them as you hope for.

    the rangers problem has been pretty bad drafting (see 2003 as example). another issue is unlike Detroit and Pitt no one comes here or stays here for a discount.

  79. The worse Redden and Rozsival play, the more the coach makes excuses for them, coddles them and even increases their icetime. Why?

    Because his first priority is not winning but stroking Sather. Renney wants to win, he truly does. Just not nearly as much as he wants to protect and be protected by the lazy GM.

  80. The arrogance is Sather and Renney taking credit for the last 3 year’s playoff berths, instead of Jagr & Lundqvist. Jagr would have been fine last year if he wasn’t forced to play this boring defensive system. He lit the league when Renney let him play, then Renney changed to defense first. Remember how fun the team of Jagr, Nylander, Sykora, Kaspar was? Even the next year with Shanahan and Avery. Then Sather let them all go for the boredom of Drury and Redden. At least Zherdev has some flash.

  81. Gresch – pitt steamrolled all teams in the east so yes they really were 4-1 better. could we have lucked out another yes but that would have been luck. I hate Hollweg as much or more than anyone. But Pitt outplayed the Rangers big time in that game. when they had Sid, Malkin, Hossa at forward (for starters). look at the tapes it was not pretty at all. sometimes you have to admit the other guy was just flat out better.

    believe me Buffalo was thisclose to going up 3-0 in games too. they were quite a bit better than the Rangers. the fact we were 7 secs from being up 3 games to 2 was kudos to the players and the coaches. they gave their heart to that effort and losing game 5 hurt bad. hurt me as a fan bad too.
    BTW even if they got by Buff they would not have gotten past that ottawa team.

  82. LI Joe,
    I’m not looking for the AO, Malkin, Crosbaby, I’m looking for the $3-4 million dollar player…Gagne, Corey Perry, Zach Parise, Hemsky, Heatley, Sedin, Kozlov, Kovalchuk, Elias, Alfredsson, Backstom, etc… AO would be the 14 mil himself. I want 4 good players instead of having only 2 good players, in which one of them can’t even shoot a puck.

  83. what the heck – many you name would be $ 7 mm or more if reach open mkt. Parise, Heatley, Kovalchuk, Alfredsson at the minimum. Perry probably too.

    Gagne with concussion history is bad risk. sedins come in pairs and i don’t think can carry a team. i would guess the vancouver boards are littered with people who want them out of there. doubt you would want elias or kozlov at this stage of their careers. th eold expression is operative here – be careful what you wish for you might get it.

  84. Joe, are you defending the salaries of Drury, Gomez, Rozsival and Redden now?

    For that money we could have a Heatley, Richards, Phaneuf, and Mike Green…straight up. Adds to about the same money. And you’re telling me wishing for them would make this team worse…how…?

  85. by the way there is a limit 1 player can get of 20% of a teams cap. sop if cap was $ 55 mm then AO could “only get” $ 11 mm. plus he is on a really long term contract.

  86. rozy and redden NOT AT ALL. I think Drury and Gomez (like many athletes) are somewhat overpaid as well.

    no we can’t have those guys you mentioned. they sign with their team before they reach free agency. this is not a matter of trading say drury and redden for phaneuf and richards (obviously a no brainer). the reality is those type guys don’t reach free agency unlike nhl09 or whatever game you play.

  87. LI Joe,
    My point was that there are a lot of hard-working guys that can score out there and are as good-if not better then Dru and Gomer that would only get paid 3-4 mil. Zherdev for example. I think he is better then Gomez and will only cost 3-4 mil. I would love to have both of Drury and Gomer on the team but not at 7 mil each. If they would take a pay cut down to 3-4 mil each I would be extremely happy. Then we would have a Stanley Cup caliber team

  88. LI Joe — I’m not persuaded by your arguments concerning the past two playoffs. But then you probably already knew that…

    I’m out of here, long week ahead.

  89. unfortunately they can’t take a pay cut (except for the escrow that all players are subject to). of course i wish they were getting $ 5 mm each just like i wish each and every Ranger player was getting less so we could bring others in. i also wish there was no cap period. unfortunately not the reality.

    Z will get more than $ 3 or $ 4 mm I think.

  90. “no we can’t have those guys you mentioned. they sign with their team before they reach free agency.”

    So Joe Thornton, Heatley, even Jaromir Jagr (who was in the 120s in points his first season), Brian Campbell…those guys never got traded or saw the open market? Thanks for clarifying.

  91. gresch – for all i care they would make you coach (or anyone other than truefans or salty and maybe a couple of others). i have no love (or hate) for Renney.

    all i’m saying is we were beaten by far better teams each of last 2 yrs. you can believe otherwise if you like.

  92. _Well hey… You win some, you lose some._

    _We’ll be fine, every team has it’s off nights._

    _Renney is a great motivator and I’m sure he will fix the mistakes from tonight and the team will turn the page next game._

  93. My point was to say that elite players do hit the open market (see Hossa + the guys I mentioned). The Rangers offered elite contracts to non-elite players. For that, we will all bear that burden. GM’s should wait for the players to throw that money at. Sather didn’t, and because of that he won’t be able to throw money at upper echelon players for the next 4-5 years.

  94. true fans –

    Joe T was traded in a steal of a trade before we had Gomez or Drury.

    Heatley was traded for hossa.

    We received JJ at a very favorable 1/2 cap hit before the cba was negotiated. if he reached a certain point total he would still be here at that favorable cap hit.

    I would prefer Campbell to either Redden or Rozy. or preferably none of the 3 and build with our own dmen (or 1 yr contracts as fillers).

  95. LI Joe,
    I am actually thrilled that there is a cap nowadays…because beforehand old veterans would just come here to retire…

  96. what the heck – 94′ would not have happened if there was a cap. the era from 01 to 97 was actually pretty good except the 1 yr they missed the playoffs.

  97. LI Joe (November 30th, 11:24pm):
    “true fans – keep believing that real difference makers will reach free agency.”


    Sir, thank you and Good day!

  98. they were the best we could do. it was either that or fall to bottom and really build through the draft.

    they are 2 very good pieces of a puzzle but certainly can’t do what the AO types can do by themselves.

    and dolan would never allow the complete rebuild.

  99. Joe from LI

    I’m with Gresch —- you continue to have trouble seeing that the 4-1 loss vs. Pitt was outsized first and foremost BECAUSE the disparity in coaching performances was so great.

    No one around the Rangers — players, fans or media — looked at that series as a huge uphill battle. A tough series, no question. But not a mismatch in any way. Go back and read the press. The Rangers were favored to win in many, many corners. To say that the verdict was essentially pre-ordained by the names on the roster is simply not in accordance with the facts.

  100. Joe,
    Obviously there’s a cost/benefit analysis when you sign players to such huge terms. I’m not sure 7 years and 5 years were the right terms. Certainly Reddens’ 6 and Rozsival’s 4 were wrong.

    And I don’t blame Gomez or Drury for the slump this team’s in now either. Today was actually painful because there seemed to be nothing anyone could do to stop the bleeding.

  101. ford – pitt was 12-2 vs the east in the playoffs. the talent disparity was very evident by watching the series. keep in mind before the series us Ranger fans saw what we wanted to see. and again watch the dvd’s – it was a very 1 sided series.

  102. This team was fine before Renney really sunk his teeth into them. Look no further than the Detroit game. That team has completely disappeared.

  103. true – as i pointed out above i would have loved for Gomez and Drury to sign for less money say $ 5 mm each and 5 yrs each. still appreciate what each brings though.

    the dmen i think we agree on.

    coming out of the lockout i actually wanted to finish 30th as was predicted to really get our own impact player. dolan will never allow it. he is a big part of the problem as everyone blames renney, sather, or this player or that player.

  104. Joe

    The more talented team often loses emotional, fraught playoff series. But not when Therrien eats Renney’s lunch before the series even started re: Crosby, the diving, and the refs in general, and Renney is too nice and too shocked and too off balance to know what hit him.

    A top-level coach who wants to win more than he wants to be admired for his diction, with HL in net, Jagr on a roll, and a 3-0 lead in the first game on the road does not lose that series 4-1. Period.

  105. ford the 3-0 lead was very short lived. and look at what pitt did to Philly blitzed them as equally as they did us.

  106. I didn’t want them to sign Redden, I accepted it, like when a relative or friend starts dating someone I don’t see eye to eye with and hope it works out. It hasn’t. I was all about Commodore, Hainsey, and J. Smith.

    The Rangers didn’t have the highest payroll back in the late 80s/early 90s, it was. St Louis who used to. Pretty much all throughout the 80s and pre-Messier, the Rangers were run like a cheap second tier team. Who was their biggest star n the 80s? Beezer? LaRouche? Freaking Barry Beck? I think 98-04 was trying too hard to make up for it.

  107. One more thing; Vannanen who plays for Philly now was out there for the cheap. $1 million and was playing in Europe last year. He has 6 points and is +2; even in the old NHL, I’d take him and Commodore over Redden and Roszival any day of the week.

  108. The NYR-PIT series last year was remarkably close. Every game was a close one. We could certainly have beaten them with a better coach, I have no question.

    This team is about to spiral out of control unless something is done. Hold onto your hats children, things are about to get ugly.

  109. Joe

    You clearly discount the importance of the coach in a playoff series. So be it.

    But know that many people in high places do not agree with your belief that Pittsburgh was the far better team. Allow me to quote Tom Renney himself: “We beat ourselves.”

  110. ford – discount somewhat yes since the team with better players will win most often. yes if we could have Scotty Bowman in prime tha tmight have made for a closer series.

    i would just as soon most posters get their wish about renney. if for no other reason as i am sick of reading the complaining.

    also don’t like remembering bad memories especially losing the buff series which bothered me much more than the pitt series since we were thisclose to being up 3-2

  111. Let’s all be more Zen-like. Blame nobody. Nobody is at fault. It’s just a big cosmic groovy thing, with the odd(?)hiccups, nothing is perfect, as long as you try…or as long as you say you try…or as long as some of them try…or at least execute some of the time…or as long as Mr. Thomas Renney is befuddled and puzzled…Golly gee, just what the heck is wrong with my boys out there, they once again forgot every gosh-durned thing I told them.

    But don’t, I repeat don’t, ever stoop to that shallow and mean-spirited practice of blaming the guy in charge.

    As I said, be more zen-like.

  112. topcorner – as i said in my last post i would just as soon renney be gone so the complaining will stop. so feel free to blame him for whatever. as long as people blame him and not blame other posters here.

    i’m getting to the point of either he has to go or i have to stop reading the comments.

  113. LI Joe

    Just venting. I’ve read some of the threads here, love this site, smartest hockey people around obviously Sam is a claass act too. but nothing I wrote is directed at anyone here, or their views. I just cannot stand the direction this team has moved, compared to what they could be. I can’t stand listening to his b.s. post-game dissertations all well-reasoned and self-composed, I hate what some really good players become playing here. I simply trust my gut and wish he was gone. I know it won’t happen, though.
    I cope with it by posting things like above.

  114. top – well maybe some of the real activists have to get their voices heard at the garden. start a fire renney chant. the internet can only do so much. not saying for you to start the chant but i’m sure there are some who post here that can lead in that endeavor.

    they’ve used that tactic before. if someone really feels that way show it vocally at the garden. i’m sure others will follow.

  115. If I were a GM, I would never give anyone more than a 4 year contract, unless I was getting a real bargain AND was confident that that player would not get lazy and lack motivation after getting a long term deal.

    Give me Sather’s job or give me death!!!

  116. “There’s a certain standard that we have to pursue every day. Hopefully we are setting a standard for everyone here to really pursue and identify with.”
    – Tom Renney

    Of course I can’t prove it is authentic but it sure sounds like him.
    Okey-dokey, time to pursue and identify.

  117. i noticed in todays paper that Pock was put on waivers by the Isles. I guess he wasn’t as good as some used to think.

  118. Have to agree with most of what has been said of the D (Redden & Rosi), the scorers, and our supposed FIRST LINE.

    I jsut don’t get this though: 2 years – terrible POwer play.
    YEt Renney and Pearn REFUSE to change it other than removing one D man for another.

    I mean who the hell says your First two lines, in tact, MUST be used on the Power Play?

    I really think Renney has this year and then it’s over. Sather won’t live with 3 years of early exit playoffs after all there talk in the offseason about moving foward and the complete retooling of the roster.

    2nd/3rd Round exit = New coach in 09-10

    And as fans, even in losses, all I want to see is HARD WORK.
    PAnthers totally wanted the win more than us yesterday and it showed. I know we step up against tougher teams (We’ll see this week) but its the lack of emotion from the whole team like yesterday that infuriate me.

    Honorably Mentions:
    Hank, Voros, Dubi, Drury.
    t least I could SEE they were pissed off and trying to win
    Everyone else jsut walk through the game

  119. What the HECK –
    It would have been nice if JJ was offered a contract. But like he said when they signed Naslund he knew he wasnt coming back. But if they didnt sign Redden & Roszi to those obscene contracts. It would have been nice to see JJ with Nazzy, Gomez with Z as the first two lines.

    Now Renney, the Media and Rozi dont have anyone to blame for their horrible PP because JJ isnt on the team. They put the same damn players out there with the same boring, predictable play.

  120. If Drury and the others hit the net in the first period it would have been a totally different game.

    Dubi has been awful… -3 yesterday. He can’t score and constantly over handles the puck and turns it over.

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