Breaking news! Rangers aren’t done with their offseason maneuvering!


An urgent press release from the Rangers just came across our desk here at Blog Headquarters, disrupting our midsummer slumber.

News on Sundin? Shanahan? Is Glen Sather stepping down?

Actually, the team has changed the start time for its December 7 game against Calgary from 7 p.m. to 7:30.

Phew! That one was weighing on me…


Meanwhile, on a serious note, some of you have reached out to me to lament what’s happened to the comments section, where personal attacks and impostors have become commonplace.

I’ll be honest that between vacation and other assignments, I haven’t been nearly as diligent in monitoring the comments or cleaning up as I need to. That, I can assure you, will change as we get closer to training camp, if not immediately.

I owe too much to the people who have supported and contributed to this site to allow it to be ruined by a handful of knuckleheads (In fact, I thought of my own blog when I read “this New York Times Magazine piece on internet trolls”: Check it out. It might sound familiar).

So for those you who have had to put up with this nonsense, consider this an apology. For those of you who are causing it, consider it a warning.

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  1. Wait…the big press conference announcement was for a time change for a game?? Or is there really a press conference going to go down for some big news???

  2. Sam, I know the NYR website roster is not finalized as of yet. But after checking in yesterday notice that Nigel Dawes has been removed. I would understand this if he was undecided as to what # he wanted (as is the case with Dan Fitsche). Is a trade coming, any info or rumors?

  3. Bleed, is almost usually never updated to have an accurate roster during the offseason so I wouldn’t look too much into it. In 4 weeks or so the Training camp rosters will be posted and until then, chalk it up to laziness.

  4. Hopefully by the start of camp this blog will be able to get rid of the troll, cause there’s only one. Im looking forward to everyone’s apology when that happens, and you realize im not Bonfire. But for now, keep thinking what you think !!


    I didn’t name call, that was in the last post. This is a new post, so hopefully the same BS outside of Nyr wont be brought up. If you don’t like me, do what a more mature person would do, skip my posts. That’s what i do to the people i don’t like, so you should do the same, instead of picking fights. Your move, bub.

    Anyway, Jason is right,, just like is flat out lazy. I think Hall was under the roster by the time the Sabs eliminated the Rangers, they only update there posts, thats aboot it.


    There’s no press conference i heard aboot, unless MSGNY remembered they cover Nyr as well as the friggin Phillies, and other baseball teams outside of NY, and decided that there gonna go hunt down the new blue shirts and interview them. But i doubt that. That annoys the hell out of me, MSGNY covers baseball team outside of NY, but during the hockey season they cover only Nyr, NJd, Nyi, and Buf, but not the Flyers, and Pens. I find that annoying, even if i could care less aboot those teams, i just like the idea that they cover the whole division. I don’t care that baseball is a hell of a lot popular THEN THAN hockey. The Yankee’s and Mets don’t even play on MSG, same with the Giants and Jets, so why do they get more coverage THEN THAN Nyr !!!

  5. Thanks, Sam. Wading through the nonsense on here lately has made it hard to follow and certainly discouraged me from checking in or posting. Bet I’m not the only one.

    Of course, the lack of any news didn’t help, either.

  6. Thank you, Sam

    Interesting article. I guess it would be naive to think that there would not be a downside to Al Gore’s internet.

    If this site was for the Beijing Rangers, we would be able to water torture the trolls. Too bad.

    Can someone please tell me about their pick-up games. I need some hockey news.

  7. Sam thanks for the warning to the “Trollers”/Looser Imposters…I stopped posting for awhile because its not even mildly entertaining to read some of the comments posted that have nothing to do with our team…
    Oh and I’ll mark the time change on my calendar.

  8. Hockeymanrangers on

    Ok this is the way I see it with this schedule change. This will affect all the lines, now Dubinksy will be up with Gomer and Zherdev. And this also means that Dawes will NOW be up on the second line with Drury and Callahan. And with the 30 minute change Valiquette just may have to get the start as this just might be to late for the Henrik to stay up. WOW this is a really big stuff this means we could make the play offs or we could not make the play offs. Sam you are really something else, something of this stature maybe should of just been kept it to your self. Do I have anyone going yet????

  9. Does anyone seriously think that Shanahan is really capable of contributing to this new line up? I have many questions, but I think that the largest is finding out where he sits – I think perhaps on the special teams, but other than that, I am not sure he has the legs left to contribute on this re-constituted team – your thoughts? And if not, do we look for a veteran player with a similiar history to try and fill that void? I really dont see a natural leader with what we have – Drury?

  10. This is the best blog for ranger fans I check it multiple times per day even during the offseason…I don’t respond very often but the updates, and the sense of humor Sam has, this blog needs to remain for a very long time and I hope the adolescence of whoever is causing a problem matures…Sam keep up the great work!

  11. SEAN

    He can probably still play with this team. I wouldn’t mind seeing him with Dubi on the 3rd line. Thats the thing, if Mats is totally out of the picture, and Anisimov turns heads in camp, and shows he can play in the NHL, THEN THAN we can move Dubi to the wing, if he’s comfy cozy with the idea. If not leave him where he is, there’s no point in rushing the kid, let him play with Cally on that 4th line, and either Pruchs or Dawes.

    One thing im looking forward to seeing is, if Mats doesn’t get signed, and Pruchs doesn’t get traded, seeing how Pruchs plays. This has to be the year he really steps it up, cause the last 2 deadlines he was rumored to get traded, and now he is rumored again, if he wants to stay in New York, THEN THAN he has to show he is worth hanging on to. I hope he can go back to his rookie ways, but who knows. If he does get traded and we don’t re sign Shanny, THEN THAN i hope Korpedo can really have a great camp and make the team like Dubi did.

  12. Derf (The Real One) on

    Derf August 5th, 2008 at 2:31 pm

    The guys here play once in a while at Chelsea Piers, Timay, the GMHC is for Gay Indians!! Half of us are playing as we speak!!


    SAM….not me again. Whoever is typing this please use a diff name lol..

  13. I stopped posting here for a while, partly from being busy, and partly from a WHOLE lotta nonsense… I’d love some form of regulating, so you can’t rip off a name and post dumb/homosexual comments as them.

    And a REAL out there thought. Is it possible they moved the start date for the Calgary game so they could hold maybe, a retirement ceremony beforehand?

    The REAL Jeever

  14. Dawes Fan Club on

    I, too, am wondering what is with the dropping of Dawes from the team roster at the Rangers official site? Been down for hours, yet no trade news or anything that I can find, anywhere.

    Anyone REALLY know something?

  15. BlueBlood209 on

    I am sure that Shanny can contribute. It’s great that we will have a younger and faster team, but that does not mean that Shanny can’t be a good fit. His legs may be going (but who knows as he had multiple injuries toward the end of the season), but he can still shoot. Let’s not forget he and Drury were trading places for leading scorer for a good part of the season. Not every play requires that every player skate like Gomez. We will have 2 fast, top young lines. Not every line will work like greased lightening. The younger faster guys carry it in and let him get set up for that wicked slap shot? He’s also great at standing in front of the goal. He’s a big body, a fairly tough customer, and he still can shoot. Stop rolling all 4 lines so consistently throughout the game, or maybe don’t have him on both the penalty kill and the power play along with his regular minutes. He brings the ability to score, to win in shootouts and to mentor these kids. It sounds from all accounts like Zherdev can be a handful. I just don’t see some of these younger guys listening to our “veterans” in their 20s. We need a respected 600 goal scorer to captain these kids for one more year. I’m also a bit tired of every one writing off all of Shanny’s abilities because he played through injuries and never got the time off to fully heal before the playoffs. He went from being a hero to being disposable in a flash. He is a class act (waiting, as he did last year) to see if he will be offered a contract. He is still a huge scoring threat and a leader that we need. With Renny’s system I’m more worried about our inability to score goals than finding more D men or tearing the whole team apart to fit Sundin.

  16. GardenFaithfulinFLA on

    Thank you for your comment – eloquently said. I couldn’t have expressed Shanny coming back any better. I truly believe that he’s the missing piece – the point of balance between the new and the old.

  17. ORR – As somebody reminded us a couple of weeks ago, Bonfire left in January (I believe), not at the beginning of last season as you said, because he couldn’t deal with Sam making a joke about Maurice Richard’s 50 goals. Even though he is such a whiner, I don’t think he is that childish to be trolling here now.

    The issue, to me, is that registration would discourage new posters and blocking email addresses and IPs can only work to a certain point, so it may be best to just wait it out until summer ends and the little kiddies go back to school and the trolls go back under their bridges. Actually, the best thing would be to erase the bad posts, if anybody at LoHud has the time to check these blogs. Once the season starts, things should get back to normal. Hopefully, we don’t lose too many good posters before then. I may not be posting, but I will still be reading. The more news that happens, the less trolling there is.

    Sam – Unlike what GardenFaithfulinFLA said, in no way does this reflect on you or you team here or the Rangers or their fans. That’s just ignorant, since these are just internet troublemakers.

    I suggest that everybody ignore the bad posts, as I hope to do from here on.

  18. BlueBlood209 on

    GardenFaithfulinFLA – Thanks, meant every word of it! I agree with your assessment – the missing piece between young and old. With all of the stars AND quality youngsters we had last year we still faced the problem of “chemistry”. People will say that was all Jagr, but not so. I think Shanny for one more year also makes the transition easier for the kiddies and the newcomers to learn to fit in with our stars. Just a small measure of consistency. Let’s not forget Shanny even had to have a word with King Henry last year on his comments to the press. This guy is just an asset all the way around – no matter his foot speed. Let’s get him signed!!!

  19. So Much for That on

    Sam – Your blog has been patrolled by losers since the beginning of last year. Just because someone posts here daily, it doesn’t mean they aren’t an asshole. Half of the people who’ve been posting here for the past 2+ years are the most immature and insulting group of people that I’ve ever seen post.

    I don’t do much posting here (for that very reason), but I read the blog daily. For every well thought out post, there’s an idiotic one to follow. People who don’t “fall into line” with the likes of New Newman, ORR, Beer Me!, etc. are quickly insulted and chastised. They can’t accept that anyone would have an opinion different from their own, and if you do, you’re insulted to no end.

    The quicker you get rid of know-it-alls like them, the better your blog will be.

  20. Haha, Beer Me! is definitely not a know-it-all; he’s a good guy. I can’t vouch for the other two, though ORR really isn’t either, he’s just loud.

  21. Think of the value we got out of Strudwick. A vocal leader, a selfless teacher, a protector of teammates, ready to do whatever was needed for the team. Now add the second highest goal total on the team and you have Shanahan! Even at half the speed and on the third line, you get value!

  22. BlueBlood209 on

    Old Fogey – EXACTLY!!!! I’m still lamenting the loss of Struds – terrific teammate!

  23. GardenFaithfulinFLA on

    People’s perceptions can be a funny thing. We are all aware of what’s been going on here and other places but there will be the person that doesn’t know what it’s all about and first impressions are lasting. I for one being in FLA (I grew up 5 miles from the Rangers old practice camp)am very grateful for Sam and the other folks for what they do for us fans. I just hate to see it disrespected.

  24. SPIDER

    Yup, i am loud on the blog. Actually my voice is a little Drury-ish, the ladies love it.



    Lol, gimme a break, im happy when someone disagrees with me, or not. Its a blog. Girls just wanna have fun, and i just wanna talk on a blog, cause there’s nothing else to do in the summer with the heat. What everyone should just do, is skip the posts of the people you don’t like THEN THAN you wouldn’t get into a friggin argument you don’t wanna get into.

    Everyone keeps complaining aboot this person that person, take the simple way out, and skip the posts. Anyone who says that persons immature, that person is a child, blah blah blah, your just as much cause you always find the need to reply. Everyone here is immature in there own way, even Sam is, with that post today. Just go along with it or skip the posts, no need to whine aboot it every chance you get.

    So do that, and we’ll probably have less problems.

    I don’t know what’s wrong with Newman, and Beer Me!, they seem like cool people on the blog, along with a few others like Spiderpig, that Salty guy, Doodie, Kaspar, and others.

    But eh, i guess whining and complaining is in the blood of an NYR fan, there’s no stopping it.

  25. FOGEY

    Yup, yup, yup. Shanny on the 3rd line with Dubi, and Cally, or Pruchs is nice.

    I like the idea of bringing Mats in like ive been saying, but by each day im really getting sick of him, and his waiting game. Ill never be against bringing in Shanny at all. I wouldn’t mind it. Blueblood made a great point, guys like Dubi, Staal, Girardi, Cally, Dawes, they need a guy like Shanny, and even Gomer when you think aboot it. Dru is a leader, but a different kind of leader, he leads by example, Shanny is the guy with the speeches, etc. If Shanny signs with the Pens, that will suck badly, J.Staal would probably get a hell of alot better, along with Sidney Crabby. Some teams need a players like him.

    Its not like were bringing him in for his leadership, he can actually contribute some goals around 20+. So it isn’t the worst move this team can make.

    Take Shanny off the PK, thats a start, don’t over work the guy. He’s great on the PK, but ill never understand why Renney wanted him there

  26. Before free agency began, I would have liked Shanny back, but now that we have so many bodies, I can’t see him fitting in, especially when Sather decided to pay a million each to Voros and Rissmiller for some strange reason. They don’t want to pay them that much to languish in Hartford. I’m sure Rissmiller could have been had for $300,000 less, but Voros looks to be a bit more talented, so getting him locked up for three years necessitated more money per season.

  27. Guys and gals….don’t worry about Dawes’s name not being on the website. Jamtin and Fritsche are on it. It’s probably some intern running the site. The roster isn’t set, but Dawes making $575K is nothing and trust me, it’ll be one of the best bang-for-buck deals in the NHL this year. I say Dawes gets 57-60 points.

  28. MikeA …

    Completely agree !!! If the Roster stays the same as it is now, I think Dawes plays on the 2nd Line and scores 55-65 points this year. The fact we have that much potential scoring on the wing @ $ 575,000, there is no way he is traded.
    Remember Dawes could have been offered an “offer sheet” and no-one did so unless he is part of a trade package deal (with Rozsival or something) I really dont see trading him and his low salary straight up with someone or for a draft pick

  29. been missing you folks… I find it ironic that the more time I spend *away* from this blog, the *more* offensive/ridiculous it apparently gets… who would have thought such a thing?

    hope all is well for you my friends, talk soon when it’s worth talkin’!

  30. I second that salty. I have been reading but not contributing anything. I hope all is well with the folks I have gotten to know the last two years.

  31. Dawes Fan Club on

    You can look at Shanahan’s goal total in 2008, and/or you can look at his shooting percentage – down from 14% two seasons ago, to 8 1/2% this past season. Given his age and his major concussion of two seasons ago, the trend toward his becoming a liability and outliving even his own usefullness, is unmistakable. This is not last year, redux, and certainly not his prime. This is his swan song, and the team needs to break with Shanahan – now – and acknowledge the painful reality that he is done. Best we can do is congratulate a good man on his impact HOF career – and move on.

  32. Sheriff Weinman is rolling into town and he’s taking no prisoners!!

    I was at the rangers website checking out the roster to see who chose what numbers when I came across the name Andreas Jamtin. I totally forgot they signed him out of Sweden. If I remember correctly he’s kind of a poorman’s swedish Sean Avery. I think he’ll be a real wildcard coming into camp; i wonder if he’ll crack the line-up. Thoughts?

  33. BlueBlood209 on

    Dawes Fan Club – You have a point, but lets face it – the goal scoring was low across the board last season. And low or not, in decline or no, he was still a dangerous guy. Put him on the third or fourth line and I think you will still see 20 goals. Can the same be said for other 3rd and 4th liners? Also as some of the others said, he was used on the PK way too much, and since we had so many penalties that is bound to have an impact. Not saying he isn’t starting to wind down, just that I still think he’s a valuable guy.

  34. nasty – I saw that your boy Brick did pretty well on Amer. Gladiators. Good stuff.

    pig – thanks for the support….that comment caught me off-gaurd as well.

  35. I have an idea about the trolls/idiots on this blog…Ignore them!!! It’s plain to see when someone is being a moron, so when we see an idiotic/nasty or inappropriate post just ignore it. If someone is insulting and disrespects your opinion ignore them. Irrelevance is the most powerful tool…

    A word about Shanny. I think he should definately be signed if the price is right. I can see him on the fourth line with Frische and either Orr/Voros/Rismiller. Even if Shanny scored 12-15 goals that would pretty much quadruple the entire fourth lines offensive production for last year, and that doesn’t count what his line mates contribute. All of a sudden the fourth line would be dangerous and other teams would have to match players against it instead of ignoring it.

    And someone above mentioned Shanny’s shooting percentage being down. I wouldn’t pay much attention to that stat, it’s basically useless. Rememeber, shots don’t need to go in to create scoring opportunities, scrambles and offense. Goal tenders get tired, shot gets deflected. All of that is positive. The fact that the old man still gets into good shooting position so often is what we should be looking at. It shows his experience.

    Without having to carry the offensive load, Shanny on the fourth line at a discount is priceless!!

  36. Obviously we are top heavy with third and fourth liners so manking room for Shanny is the problem. I personally don’t see the need for a bunch of our players. I’m not sure what Sather has in mind with Betts, Prucha,Voros,Jamtin, Rismiller,and a host of other middle of the road guys. I’d make up a nice package for a bonafide second line guy and trade them. That way we would have a highly productive top 2 lines and a solidly productive 3 and 4 lines.

    I’m comfortable with the defense. I know alot of guys with yell and scream that they are soft, but I think they will be even better than last year and last year they were among the top in TEAM defense. And as much as some might not want to admit it or adapt to it, the Rangers incorporate a TEAM defense, so the need for a big time Dman isn’t necessary.

  37. Just weighing in with my two cents on Shanahan.

    I listened to an interview this spring with one of the Giants talking about Strahan. Basically the interviewer was asking about Strahan’s last minute decision to play last season. This guy pointed out that a player like Strahan knows how to play at a very high level and has been doing it for a long time, well past the point where most players retire.

    Why do I bring this up? For me, it provides a framework into thinking about Shanahan. The guy has been playing in the NHL since ’80s and has managed to make the transition into the “new” NHL style post lockup. Most would agree that he is a fairly smart player, given his work with the union and the advocates on this board that he become a coach.

    I think the guy knows whether or not he can successfully contribute over a season, he knows what is required from a physical and mental standpoint.

    Personally, I’d like to have him back if we can squeeze him in under the cap. I’ll take a Hall of Famer and a leader over a third/fourth line player with “potential” any day of the week. I’d like to believe that his low production from a historical perspective was due to injury and he bounces back. At the same time, there are intangibles unrelated to his on ice production that add value to the team.

  38. Dawes Fan Club on

    Dissent re Shanahan’s possible retention. The club turned the corner re Jagr and Straka, why not fully commit to the new, younger generation and go all the way, rather than do a reverse gear Shanahan retention and Sundin signing, if that comes to pass. Stay on course, Rangers, don’t do a 180 every other month!

  39. JJP-
    Well said..great post. A decrease in production is reflected in his a decrease in his salary. No one expects Shanny to put up the numbers he did early in his career, but a cagey veteran like himself will always surpass his salary in productivity. In my view, that is how we judge a player. If the average 1million dollar salary contributes an average of 15 goals and 30 assists and we have a player that we pay 1million and he contributes 20 goasl and 35 assists then he was a solid acquisition. I believe Shanny would be a solid acquisition if they can fit him under the cap.

  40. I’m torn on the Shanny saga. He’s one of my all-time favorite athletes, and he’s played well for the NYR. The problem is, I know that my loyalty to Shanny blurs my vision of what’s right. I’d have to believe that many fans have the same problem. Resigning shanny would be the complete opposite of the “Younger and Faster” mantra that has been initiated this offseason.

    Veteren leadership IS very important to every team in pro sports. But is signing the oldest guy(s) you can find the right or only way to go about it.

    Even without shanny on the team, there’s tons of playoff experience, including several trips to the finals, and a handful of cups as well. At what point do you draw the line at how much veteren leadership do you need?

    Pitt didn’t need too many veterens to best the entire eastern conference. I would never say that vet-experience is overrated, but there’s a fine line when you endulge too much in yester-year.

  41. Dawes-
    I’m not against a youth movement but they have already committed to that and are in danger of overcommitting. They are the 2nd youngest team in the NHL and none of their youngsters are bonafide all stars. All I’m saying is that Shanny for one more year at a discount would greatly help this team this year and in the future. There are no young guys in Hartford waiting to knock down the door of the line up this year. Most will not be able to produce as much as the old man will.

  42. Beer me
    Pitt had Gary Roberts. They don’t get much older than him. they also had Hal Gill at 33, Darly Sidor at 36, Gonchar at 34 and now Satan at 33. They are plenty old, in fact considerably olderer than the Rangers. Even if the Rangers sign Shanny their entire roster would only have 3 players over 30(Drury,31- Naslund 35- Redden, 31). They can more than afford and actually need Shanny’s leadership and experience. For some reason there is a misperception among ranger fans that the Rangers are so old and not young and fast. look at the roster, your totally wrong. they are TOO young!!!!

  43. I’ve thought of how to respond to that, and I’m really sure. Mainly, cause I’m not that interested. No offense. You’ve used 2 different rosters to make that point. That was not the intent of my comment.

    “For some reason there is a misperception among ranger fans that the Rangers are so old and not young and fast. look at the roster, your totally wrong. they are TOO young!!!!”

    Does “your” there mean me? or the “fans” that you referenced? I don’t believe the rangers are old OR young to be honest. I think AGE-WISE, they’re a pretty well-balanced team.

  44. I’m very upset that my two attempts at posting with a link didn’t work, maybe because it was way too long, because I have something *real* and *new* to discuss. I have been reading the “Puck Daddy” blog at Yahoo! – NHL, and it’s pretty good, especially the posts that collect all hockey news.

    Apparently, Cablevision wants to sell some of its assets to raise its stock price; unfortunately, this does not seem to include anything related to sports. Even so, an analyst broke down the teams’ values separately and said that the Rangers are worth only $300 million while the Knicks are $500 million. I would have believed this a few years ago, but I don’t understand it now. This must be driven by higher prices for Knicks tickets and more merchandise sales, I would guess.

    Also, the blog linked to a story about Sakic in the Avalanche’s series against the Red Wings in the playoffs, seeing the quick Wings flying past him, and when a superstar sees that, he goes on to think that it is time to retire because he can’t be the consistent star that he used to be. It would seem that Shanahan is not experiencing this, even though it seems to all of us that he is slower than the average player.

  45. That is directed to anyone who believes they are too old as a team. They are not too old.
    You say:
    “Resigning shanny would be the complete opposite of the “Younger and Faster” mantra that has been initiated this offseason”.
    Veteren leadership IS very important to every team in pro sports. But is signing the oldest guy(s) you can find the right or only way to go about it.

    What “younger and faster” mantra is there that the Rangers went after this post season?? You totally made that up!! They signed Naslund who is 35, Rosival who is nearly 30 Mara who is pushing 30 and Redden who is 31. And none of those players are “faster”. The host of other middle of the roaders they signed does not support your argument either. Just because they signed Zherdov does not mean they have a “mantra”. That “mantra” is in your head. They are going for a well balanced team with a good productive defensive minded system who have a combination of speed and grit.

    Your comments INSINUATED that signing Shanny -due too age related reasons- might might be a mistake. I am debating that premise on the grounds that the Rangers could well afford the experience in their line up because they DO NOT-
    “Even without shanny on the team, there’s tons of playoff experience, including several trips to the finals, and a handful of cups as well”.- have all that much postseason experience as you so say!!!

  46. BlueBlood209 on

    Whether or not the team as a whole is too young (which I believe it is) or not is not really the question. The other “older” players we let go, a la Jagr and Straka, were our first line guys. Shanny has said he would take a reduced role at a reduced price. Nobody is saying we should build the team around him! The question is really more this — is he better than the other 3rd or 4th line guys we have? Is he smart with the puck, can he create scoring chances and get some goals? I say he is the most bang for the buck that you’re gonna get out of a 3rd or 4th liner. He’ll fit in where we put him. As stated above he could actually make our 4th line dangerous as a scoring threat and still play a smart defensive game. Put him on the 4th line and the power play – he doesn’t really need the speed in those capacities. Twenty or so goals should not be thrown away so lightly when we lost so many top scorers and we don’t know if all these players who “needed a change of scenery” are going to click.

  47. rmant – I’m just not interested in the debate anymore man. sorry. I love shanny, I just don’t want him back this year. Numerous reasons that I’ve stated here many times in the past. News is slow, but I don’t feel like repeating the same stuff over and over anymore.

    pig – good stuff. I don’t read that too often, but I’m familiar. It would be my understanding that the ‘value’ or ‘worth’ of any franchises are in large part determined by the revenue that they generate. Believe it or not, even with how bad the knicks suck, they still sell more hats, shirts, jerseys, etc. than the Rangers.

  48. That does raise an interesting point, from a Rangers perspective. Or any other team participating in games overseas.

    Will the games in Europe help generate revenue for the NHL? Will people go home from the games, go to and buy the merch?

    The portion of ticket sales (and if ANY concession) profit would be a mere drop in the bucket in terms of additional revenue. So they’re not counting on the 4 games (THEMSELVES) to be played this season, or the 2 from last season to help in that dept. But rather the growth/exposure.

    I don’t think an intercontinental league is part of the plan. At least I hope not at this point. The interest is already there for the sport. But what can you do to sway someone in Sweden or the Czech Rep. to buy a Rangers jersey with Rozy(haha) or Naslund on the back instead of their National Team jersey? At least on a large scale.

  49. How much veteran leadership does a team need? The Pens didn’t have all that much and they made the finals. We have veterans in Drury, Gomez, Naslund, Betts, Rozsival, etc… how many more do we need? It seems we have more than enough leadership vets.

  50. The Shanny debate gets more play then the Impeachment hearings…Oh wait! Thought I was on the Foxnews blog.

    welcome back Sam!

    glad to hear you will clean up the trollers

  51. Beer me- I threw out the debate for the entire blog, if you don’t feel like discussing it then feel free to pass on responding, but hitting and running isn’t the best way to have a blog. You can’t retort then claim not to be interested in the subject. if that’s the case then stay out of the discussion altogther. I didn’t direct at you, but you answered up.

  52. “if that’s the case then stay out of the discussion altogther.”

    yes sir. sorry sir. There’s no reason anyone can’t voice an opinion. relax.

  53. Rmant, yes. Rozsival has almost 500 games under his belt and Betts almost 300 (then again he’s 28 and has played all over the league).

  54. Rmant and Blueblood209 …

    I agree 100%. The ONLY reason the Rangers havent signed Shanny yet is because of the fact they’re still in the running for Mats Sundin. The second we find out Mats is retiring or going to another team, then you will see Shanahan re-signed.

    Going into this off-season, i really only felt the Rangers needed to “tweak” the team. They had the 4th best team defense in the NHL, and 1st best in the Eastern Conference last year. Our problem last year was chemistry. We brought in Drury and Gomez, and gave full-time roster positions to Dubinsky, Staal, Dawes, and Callahan.

    Obviously, Backman and Malik had to go and You can argue over Avery and Jagr’s worth. But BRINGING SHANAHAN BACK HELPS TRANSITION this years team from last years team. We ARE the 2nd youngest team in the league and we’ve replaced productive veterans with questionable players.

    Maybe the question marks of Zherdev, Naslund, and Redden fall into place … maybe they dont? No matter what, chemistry will be a huge question mark again and i for one, would like to see at least see 1 line combo from last year return

    Sign Shanny, Give him the “A”, not the “C”, because there is no better third line player and i think Dubinsky could really benefit playing with him this year, just like Jagr last year.

    I am very optimistic about this team making the playoffs, … but in retrospect I think this team would have been fine, and had better chemistry if we just lost Jagr, Malik, Avery and made the trade with Backman and Tyutin. Having Straka and Shanny, trading for Fritsche and Zherdev, and signing Redden would have been enough for me.

    Id take Straka over Naslund, and Shanny over any two 3rd and 4th line players we’ve acquired this year.

  55. To keep the *good* conversation going, I’ll move on to my next point. Who can we realistically expect to trade? Prucha showed that he can be a big scorer, so $1.6 million is a potentially great bargain in his fourth year. While Dawes and Callahan have not proven much, they are going into their second seasons and have shown that even while they are not scoring that they provide energy and impact on the ice. Voros, Rissmiller, Redden, Naslund, and Kalinin were signed as free agents, and you generally never see those players traded while still in the offseason, though I could see potentially trading one of the first two if one loses the competition in camp and is not in the starting lineup. Drury and Gomez obviously aren’t going anywhere, and hopefully the same can be said for Staal and Dubinsky. Rozsival and Mara were also signed as free agents from our own team, so it could be a possibility for trade, but not likely.

    That leaves our trade chips on the NHL level as Zherdev, Fritsche, Girardi, Betts, Orr, and Pöck, which doesn’t leave room for much. Zherdev is slated as a top-line player, so he won’t be shipped out to find a second-liner, but some combination of three of the other five could find someone out there. It is likely that another team would want one of our fast forwards like Dawes or Callahan, but maybe they would be satisfied with an AHLer like Moore instead. The only issue remaining would be trying to find room under the cap because second-liners aren’t too cheap unless they have recently blossomed, in which case another team wouldn’t want to make that trade.

    Let’s say for the sake of argument that we trade Betts, Fritsche, and Girardi for some decent left wing. That would open up a spot at fourth line center, and possibly another bench spot for a prospect to make the team or to sign Shanahan, but it would leave us unsure of our fourth line defensively without Betts.
    LW: Naslund, 2nd-line trade guy, Dawes, Voros, Rissmiller
    C: Gomez, Drury, Dubinsky, Moore?
    RW: Zherdev, Prucha, Callahan, Orr
    D: Redden, Rozsival, Staal, Mara, Kalinin, Pöck

    Personally, I think the team is done making moves until at least a few preseason games are played, but probably not even then. If they do trade from the NHL level, it would have to be one of those six players.

  56. Actually.. here’s a question for everyone.. when is a player considered veterany enough to be a veteran? 5 seasons?

  57. Pavel- What have they accomplished in the league besides simply playing in it that qualifies them as a leader of a team???

  58. Beer me- if you voiced an opinion then opened it for debate that’s fine, but don’t voice an opinion then when someone retorts you say you aren’t interested in discussing it. That aint right dude!! It’s wimpy!

  59. Wow, I totally forgot Sjostrom, and I’m not really sure where he would fit in my final scenario, so I would include him in my hypothetical trade instead of Betts or Fritsche, so we could be left with a fourth-line center. As it stands now, he is probably our third-line left wing if Prucha is moved back to the right side as he should be.

  60. I think the best bait is prucha. He has go to go.Him along with some og the 3/4 line glut along with a pick for a solid 2nd liner is what we should be looking for.

  61. I find it hilarious that Orr is oblivious to the fact that he is one of the trolls/idiots that has ruined this blog.

  62. haha pig – that’s funny, cause everytime someone posts a lineup, they end up forgetting someone! We have too many ‘tweeners’. That’s for sure. What we do with them, we can only wait and see.

    I’ve always been an advocate of trading prucha…when his value was high. I don’t think moving him at this point is the best idea. A $1.6 ‘salary dump’ sounds ridiculous to me. THOSE are the salaries you keep! I will say this tough…I’ve dogged Prucha quite a bit last season, but I DO hope he breaks out (again) this year and produces. It will be dertermined by his linemates I think. He is only effective in open-ice, and he needs to play with someone that can open the ice up for him.

  63. Dawes Fan Club on

    Agreed, the Sundin situation impacts the Shanahan situation, although not retaining either one of them makes more sense.

    Another factor to consider: what if Shanahan plays poorly in camp and is obviously a step slower – does he even make the team? Furthermore, bringing him back for leadership and reasons of popularity and sentimental Public Relations fodder at the expense of overall team play, demonstrates – and the Rangers are good at this – a preference for “making the playoffs,” over taking a step back before taking a giant leap toward winning the Cup, itself. I would rather have the club win the Cup in two-three years and take whatever medicine needs to be taken on this path, in 2008-2009, then just make the playoffs every year for the next decade with a different annual nucleus of downside veterans who are “popular.”

  64. spiderpig…

    I dont think just because you re-signed with a team that makes you trade-proof. Being re-signed to me, either means’re good enough to play on the team the next year OR 2. Management didnt want to risk losing you for nothing to free-agency. SO BY BEING RE-SIGNED, I THINK IT MAKES YOU MORE OF A TRADE OPTION THEN SOMEONE WHO NEWLY HAS BEEN SIGNED. Just look at Danny Boyle, he signed a 6.7 million dollar contract over 6 years and then was traded (not to mention had a NTC as well). Then there is JBo and Vermette, recently signed and still on the trade block.

    The 2 best trading options for the Rangers are Prucha and Rozsival. Prucha still has value for a young up-and-coming team to gamble on such as Van, LA, Atlanta or Flordia. Rozsival has the most trade value being a decent offensive-defensmen. There are a ton of teams that we could trade him to, and get a decent return.

    overall, as far as this off-season goes:
    I think Prucha will be traded no matter what (mostly to make room for Shanny, or just room in general) and Rozsival will ONLY BE TRADED if Sundin is in the picture. I think you could see Betts possibly gone and definitely Rissmiller over Voros (even though they are the same player) because he only has a 1 year deal over Voro’s 3 year deal.

  65. Anyone think sending Prucha to the minors for a short while would improve his confidence and maybe his play. Thinking of Callahan last year…..seemed to do wonders for him. Just a thought.

  66. blueblood – I know a few of us discussed that at great length during parts of the season. The problem is, it can’t happen. Without a 2-way contract he’d be scooped up in a second on waivers, and if not GARUNTEED on re-entry waivers at 1/2 price.

    It definitely worked for cally, and dawes earlier on. The only way they could swing it with prucha, is to leave him there the entire season…obviously not making much sense. The thing (for me anyway) with the dude, is that he has NOT listned to the request to put on a few pounds.

  67. “Rozsival and Mara were also signed as free agents from our own team, so it could be a possibility for trade, but not likely.”



    somerset – So, you just took the time to post the exact same thing I said. It is a possibility, but unlikely. Boyle was actually signed during the season, like Tyutin for us, so he doesn’t count, especially with new ownership coming into the picture. It looks like Vermette was an RFA, so he doesn’t count either because it is more common for teams to sign their RFAs then trade them because they have more control of an RFA than a UFA. And I have no idea who JBo is, so come with some better examples.

  68. BEER ME – Thanks, I didn’t realize it would gum up the works that badly. Shame though. It is possible that he just doesn’t gain weight – but you’re right for his style of play he NEEDS to be a bit heavier. Thank god the kid is like Gumbie for the most part. I hope they move Callahan up and leave Prucha with Dubi and possibly Dawes – he seemed to do well on the Kiddie line. Do you think it possible he might get moved up to the Gomez/Zherdev line for instance because of his speed though?

  69. I think on the PP it’s a possibility. And it would be awesome vs. certain opposing lineups. But I don’t think it has the size to get through 82 games.

  70. Unfortunately, the NHL sucks in that way to have a player need to pass through waivers after playing in only two years in the league maximum, and anywhere down to 60 games, so a player could be subject to waivers after only one season. The MLB has a much better system where it is a five-year period of being exempt from waivers, if I remember correctly. I still contend this hurts the NHL more than it helps, since it keeps players down in the minors longer, but allows more players who have made it to the NHL keep their spot there when they might not be deserving. I think that even Dawes would have to pass through waivers at this point, since it looks like he signed his first contract in 2005, so his time away from waivers is up after three years.

    Disclaimer: It’s all very confusing, so I might be wrong.

  71. spiderpig …

    Jbo is Jay Bouwmester. It really doesnt matter whether you are Ufa or Rfa and re-signed, the root of re-signing players is 50 – 50. 50% of the re-signing is “the player could help our team next year” or 50% of the re-signing is “I have a highly coveted player and im not going to lose him for nothing (UFA) or for some draft pick compensation (RFA)”

    Resigning Mara and Rozsival give the Rangers a better team then what was offered on the open market, but if a trade or Mats Sundin rolls around (and you know Sather is waiting on that) They are going to be the first to get moved !! More Rozsival then Mara because off his value and salary

  72. Thanks for the explanations guys….still confused but I bow to your superior knowledge, at least on this particular issue!

  73. EVERYONE !!! … WHO WOULD YOU SEE TRADED (in order of importance/return value) FROM OUR GLUTTEN OF 3RD AND 4TH LINE FORWARDS???
    I’d really like to get a consensus of where these players stand.

    I gotta say (More likely to least-likely to go):
    1. Prucha
    2. Rissmiller
    3. Betts
    4. Orr
    5. Jamtin
    6. Sjostrom
    7. Voros
    8. Fritsche
    9. Callahan
    10. Dawes
    11. Dubinsky

  74. Somerset
    Really – Orr 4th? He’s our enforcer – don’t think we got a new one did we? He isn’t much offensively (at least not without Shanny’s stick), but he did ok on the shutdown HBO line….how much could he be making??? Can we get a better tough guy for the price?

  75. blueblood209 …

    I would like to know everyone’s list thats why i posted mine. What would your list be?? I think Voros was signed to phase out Orr. Enforcers who have scoring touches, are the way the Rangers (and the league for that matter) are heading.

    Callahan and Dubinsky play with heart and drop the gloves if necessary too. Also, Jamtin is an enforcer as well just recently brought in. I think Orr stays this season but he is UFA next year and will more then likely be phased out … which is a shame cause i like him

  76. BlueBlood209 – I looked up the info on, but it’s still confusing to me.

    somerset – Usually when a team is thinking about losing a player for nothing, they will trade him at the trade deadline. The NBA is the only league I can think of that does this sign and trade procedure, which I think is for cap/luxury tax reasons, so maybe we will see that more in the future of the NHL, but when was the last time you saw a team sign a UFA, even their own, only to trade him before training camp begins? You just don’t see that because it doesn’t make good business sense, especially when it would seem that, in this case, Roszival would get less money from another team. You don’t want future players considering signing with their team thinking that they could be traded to some place like Edmonton where they don’t want to play.

  77. Somerset
    I mostly agree with your list, think that is some pretty good persepective – think I’d drop Orr down a notch or two simply because we need him. I believe that Jamtin was referred to as “avery lite”, and as willing as Callahan and Dubinsky are, they’d get creamed by Brashear or any of the real tough guys. We had Struds last year, but I don’t see another heavyweight there. Also, I don’t believe he’d make great trade bait. Don’t think I’d put Callahan before Dawes either….I love Dawes but Callahan seems to be coming on strong, I don’t think they’d part with him.


    Way to early to consider trading Dawesy. He could put up 20+ goals, but Cally is another story. I like him, but who knows, maybe Slats would consider trading him, especially if he has a bad start to the year. Honestly last season after he scored in that first game, i thought he was gonna put up 20 goals at least. The only good thing to come out of his game sucking was Dawes coming up and stealing his spot, and THEN THAN Cally stole Pruchs’ spot. Im glad both are on the roster though, and i hope they don’t get traded.


    Jeez enough already. Everyone is happy, chatting, getting along, and your already trying to start a fight. Show some respect for this blog and move on, i destroyed the BB comments section, deal with it. If you got a problem THEN THAN write aboot it in your diary, but quit trying to start trouble, and don’t be such a child.

  79. spiderpig …

    I agree 100% — I think Sather did a good job locking up both Rozy and Redden. We have alot of young D prospects that could learn from both of these players.

    I said earlier Rozsival is ONLY getting moved if Sundin is an option … end of story. Nothing less then Sundin could break with the traditional “Signing of UFA’s” that you mentioned.

    However, you know Sather is salivating over Sundin and if he chooses to play here you could expect him to “break tradition and Rozsival will be gone.

    I think Prucha is gone no matter what this off-season, whether its to make room for Shanny or Lauri Korpikoski, Prucha is gone !!!

  80. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    BlazingBallz:I find it hilarious that Orr is oblivious to the fact that he is one of the trolls/idiots that has ruined this blog.

    And that must make you the other.

    Orr, although inflammatory at times, does bring good arguments and hockey knowledge to the board. You, on the other hand, bring insults and nothing hockey related. Guess which is the worse evil?

  81. somerset – Well, as you know, I am 100% sure that Sundin won’t be here, so I guess that’s where our disagreement lies. We shall see what happens, though.

    ORR – This is what I’m saying; did you even comprehend my post? I said Dawes and Callahan will not be focused on by Sather as a trading chip. Maybe Callahan will be traded if a team wants more talent than my hypothetical trade, but I said those guys are staying here. The people I think could be traded are mentioned in my second paragraph there.

  82. People who think Shanahan’s offense creates offense for others must spend a good part of the games texting or something.

  83. spiderpig …

    thanks for having a disagreement with me without resorting to name-calling. Exchanging ideas and opinions, that is what these sites are all about. Hopefully we’ve proven you can do that without stupid, childish posts !!

    You seem content with the roster staying the way it is until camp starts. Do you think at that point the Rangers will start trading people?? I cant imagine having Rissmiller or Voros in Hartford, as well as any newly signed player. It seems like such a waste to acquire players to have them play in the minors, especially if they were only signed/re-signed to a 1 year deal.

    you have to think the salary dump has to start with returning players that didnt have contract disputes this season: Prucha, Betts, and Orr (callahan, dubinsky, staal, and girardi fit in this category too but i dont see them going anywhere).

    Then i think you look at the re-signees as next on the chopping block: Rozsival, Mara, Dawes, and Sjostrom.

    Then i think you look at the new acquisitions: Zherdev, Kalinin, Voros, Fritsche, and Rissmiller (which is a shame cause i dont see anything in a player like Rissmiller other then his size?).

    Obviously, Gomez, Drury, Lundqvist, Naslund, and Redden aren’t going anywhere

    so who are your priorities, and when do they get dumped in the season?

  84. somerset – At this point, we have 23 players, which is what the team started with last season before injuries quickly arose and Pöck was sent to Hartford. I am content with that, only to the point as this is what we have now. I’m still puzzled about signing both Voros and Rissmiller, but they are here now, so you can’t do anything about it. I would imagine Kalinin and Pöck will battle for 6/7 D, and Rissmiller and Fritsche will start the season as scratches. We might see three different healthy scratches over the span of the first two games because they are back to back overseas. If somebody like Korpikoski or Anisimov is a real stunner in camp, then I could see Callahan and/or Fritsche being traded, since Fritsche was a secondary player to Zherdev in that trade. Prucha is always mentioned in these trade rumors, but he will likely be here due to his experience relative to others and his low trading value right now, so his production will be a real key, as I project that he will be the second line right wing with Drury and Dawes.

  85. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Spiderpig, you may very well be right about second line with Drury between Prucha and Dawes, but i think that’s going to be a nightmare.

    None of those guys can stay on the puck more than 5 seconds. I think Prucha’s only chance for success would be to play with Gomez, Zherdev, or Dubinsky on his line. Those guys can carry the puck and let Psquared get setup for one-timers and trash-goals.

  86. Yeah, this is why I don’t like to make line combinations in the offseason; too many issues with chemistry and the like. I know the Dawes-Dubinsky-Callahan line was good last season, but I think Dawes should be a line higher than Callahan. I can’t remember if Prucha played with Dawes or Callahan when he was with Dubinsky, since he played LW most of last season, but Dawes-Dubinsky-Prucha could work as a second line if those players fulfill their potentials. Would Drury work with Voros and Callahan? That’s what this season comes down to: a bunch of “ifs,” “potential,” and questions that we can’t answer until the team plays a couple of months.

  87. A little gasoline for the fire, courtesy of Sean Avery in his first press conference as a Dallas Star today:

    On his attraction to the Stars: “It’s certainly a better team than the one I formerly played on. That’s really the most important thing it comes down to is being able to come in and win. This is a better opportunity.”

    True or not, I don’t appreciate that. When he returns, I vote we boo his ass.

  88. didn’t dawes play with gomez alot last year… a zherdev gomez dawes line seems like it could really work

  89. I don’t get why people seem down on Prucha as much. Maybe I’m naive, but he came from nowhere, had a solid rookie year, then got his ice time yanked. the little time he spent on the ice, he was 3rd line, and still got a few chances. I say give him a GOOD chance, ice time, and see how he does. if he flops then, well you know where he stands. at least give the kid a chance. he’s done everything he’s been asked to do, and fought like hell when he’s on the ice.

  90. Dawes Fan Club on

    IF Shanahan goes to Pittsburgh, just remember the rah rah “I want to be a Ranger” hot air balloon con job he pulled on us. And what was so bad about playing in Detroit? Oh, pardon me, the money was greener, elsewhere. Can we all learn a lesson here that these mercenaries and their agents have no allegiance beyond their own bank account? And what they say for public consumption counts about as much as a return trip ticket on the Titanic.

  91. PETER

    That pisses me the hell off. I have always been a hufe fan of Aves since he was with the Wings, for him to say that is fugged up. He played with a team full of players who had his back, and made him feel at home. I wanna see Morrow, and Ott do the same when they openly admit to how much they hate him.

    That was dumb for Aves to say. New York was a more welcoming home for home, more THEN THAN L.A.

    Now im pissed, im starting to turn green.

  92. Bonfire aka dawes fan and whatever name you were using before this oh yeah power surge – detroit did not really want shanny back. we would be best served to do the same. don’t like agreeing with you but on this one i do at least with regard to shanny. don’t agree though that we should put as many 16 year olds in the lineup as you want.

  93. BlueBlood209 on

    Avery working hard at getting under the Rangers’ skin already – its what he does, right? Any bets on who will be the first Ranger he starts us with? Running Lundqvist? Mouthing off to Gomez? Or maybe he’ll try to make Dubi defend someone. What do you think?

  94. First Time ever posting … BUT reader for a long time,
    first of all, please go to and watch avery’s press conference with dallas !!!!
    “Umm you know, i cant wait to play here, obviously this team is better than the team i was formerly on”
    Are you kidding Sean Avery !!!
    Love the guy but, after that comment, peeeaccceee

  95. I don’t know why the Avery comments shock anyone. He’s a pompous, self richeous idiot. He was in Detroit, he was on Los Angeles, he was here and on his first day in Dallas, he is there. The reason most of us didn’t call him out on it and adored him for it was because he played for us.

    The guy is bush league and I hope that the people who were crying and belly aching that Sather didn’t resign him (Avery obviously did not want to be here after we learned the details of what he was offered) will realize what kind of a deterrent he actually is.

    I hope he has fun in Dallas, he won’t have to go tanning during the winter months while dating his 50 year old cougars. Dallas now had Terrell Owens V 2.0. I hope Dallas likes him because they are stuck with him for 4 full years, that’s 2 more then he’s lasted anywhere else. Hey, better them then us, I hope he and they choke on it!

  96. That game in late October at MSG is gonna get ridiculous, we all saw how Sean played against the Kings last year; over the top.

    I garuntee he’s gonna go try and take dumb runs at Zherdev and one of Cally/Dubi/Staal is gonna have to step in and sit him down.

  97. that guy who loves the rangers on

    That will only really end in his demise if he thinks that will work.
    Voros, Orr, or even Callahan will absolutely devastate that guy.

    To tell you the truth I honestly feel we will see one thing that has probably never happened in NHL history happen this year when Steve Ott and Avery fight each other. You all must agree that is at least a half-decent possibility for the upcoming year

  98. BlueBlood209 on

    MikeA- Rangers played the Kings in February ’08, but I honestly don’t remember how Avery acted. I’m pretty sure he was in the line up though.

  99. GardenFaithfulinFLA on

    I’m glad you got that up there – I tried posting last night and it didn’t work. It’s an interesting read if anything. Makes me wonder if the players that were out there to be had weren’t interested because they were a little apprehensive about signing with the Rangers because of Bettman’s threat.

  100. Finally something good to talk about today.

    I asked the question on 7/2, “How long until Avery dogs the Rangers?” Answer: 8/6. He is what he is.

    Rangers for sale? please please please please please please… I’m sending my letter to Santa early this year.

  101. BlueBlood209 on

    Jason & Mike A

    There is a you tube video of an interview with Avery (as a Ranger) before the game against the Kings in February, which also shows him scoring a goal against them. Can’t get the link to go here sorry. The title is, “Sean Avery interview: 1 year as a Ranger; Feb 5th 2008”

  102. How could somebody be surprised that Avery’s burning his bridges behind him? Those are the same type of comments he’s made his whole career. I loves Avery when he was with us, and I still like him now. I just realize that he’s blowing hot air and being inflammatory and controversial. I loved him for that while he was here, and I can see it for what it is now.

    As far as trying to run Henrik, I’m pretty sure Joel might have something to say to Avery about that.

  103. Guys – great response to the original Shanny post. I agree with most of what was said – I personally am torm b/c Shanny brings an intangible to the squad – but for me, it is all about speed and skill. He can still set up in front, and also is dangerous when planted there. However, some of the youngsters need to have a great camp and produce. If they dont, we are simply an NHL team, and not something more. I am ready for these Rangers to really make a serious run to a conference final – they have had the tools the past couple of years, but I feel did not gel when it mattered most – you had more individual play then you had team play – that wont get you to a conference final.

    Shanny is a great player and is truly a unique guy to have as a leader and 3/4 liner – but I am torn about the overall direction – perhaps the Sundin situation will clear up his status. I really want in my gut to have Shanny back – but when I look critically at the overall team and skill set – I am not sure he fits. Some of you have posted that he would make a good 3/4 liner. I agree – lets see what happens.

    Now – How in the World do we fix the pp?

    Sam – Love the blog – submitted yours to the USA hockey magazine – they ran a story this month on great blogs – and yours was not listed! I hope I straightened them out

  104. Jeever
    You’re right — I forgot about Joel. Should make life interesting if Aves pulls his usual stunts with the goalee – great point!

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