Speculating short and long term


There’s no point in reading too much into what took place on the ice on the first day of the Rangers development camp. Most of the players hadn’t been on the ice full-time in months, and many were just getting to know one another.

But for the record, yes, Michael Del Zotto and Bobby Sanguinetti, the two Rangers first round draft picks present today, stood out, and even spent some time as defensive partners. I asked Tom Renney to compare the two defensemen, and while Renney deferred to Sanguinetti’s age and experience, he said the two are cut from the same cloth.

“Bobby’s a bigger, stronger kid a year later (actually two years) and he’s been exposed to us and what we do,” Renney said. “But the instincts are similar, the intuition to jump and make things happen. You can see that Mike wants to get involved.”

As it happens another puck-moving Rangers defenseman was in the building today: Michal Rozsival. Rangers property for at least another week, the defenseman was said to be working out in the weight room after undergoing arthroscopic surgery on his hip a few weeks ago. But who knows, maybe because his days in New York are numbered, he also wants to stock up on all the free sticks and tape while he still can.

And speaking of free agency, Renney didn’t want to go into great detail about what he hoped happened by July 1. He said bumping into Rozsival was the first contact he’s had with any of the Rangers free agents so far, but he sounded willing to jump into the fray if called upon.

“If the boss tells me to phone someone, I’m all over it,” Renney said.

The coach did say the team has had conversations with all of the UFAs, even if just touching base, and it’s safe to say some of those conversations will heat up this week.

Will the Rangers prevent anyone from hitting the open market at this point? I’m skeptical. That’s not to say they don’t want certain players back, and that includes Jaromir Jagr. But I have a hard time believing either side would let things reach this point if they didn’t want to see what lurked on the other side of July 1.

OK, I’m off to a dinner. More later…

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  1. Sam,

    I think you ” Rozsival”ed when you meant to “Renny” in the 3rd paragraph..

  2. czechthemout!!!! on

    Why all the worry over Avery? We did just sign the Swedish version of him.This kind of reminds me of when they traded Zubov and than signed Bruce Diver to replace what Zubov brought. How did that one work out?

  3. Avery is great but he’s not even in the same league as Zubov. Dude is still going strong today. Every great team or great band has one guy who just goes about his business and doesn’t make a scene. Zubov was that guy for the Rangers in the early/mid 90s.

  4. Zubov will probably in the hall of fame when all is said and done. Can’t say the same for Avery.

  5. Sam, how did Anisimov look? I think it’s interesting and great how he showed up for this camp. If he bulks up lik 10-15 pounds, I think he has a great shot to make the team out of training camp. I’m curious how he’s progressed, if his English has gotten better, and if the dude got to at least go back to Russia between April and now.

  6. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Isn’t Artem Anisimov a center?
    Dubinsky – Gomez – Betts – Drury

    Ummm…yea. Not sure where he’s making the roster.

    Call me when Avery gets 20 goals in a season… which will be never. If we don’t resign him, it’s gonna take a classless organization like the Islanders to pick him up. He has really worn out his welcome across the NHL. He makes our whole organization and sport look classless by the way he plays. I really am sick of him.

    In response, please also call me when Drury has an elite year as well.
    How about cracking 70points or even a +10 for $7.1 million?

  7. czechthemout!!!! on


    You guys missed my point.I wasn’t comparing Avery to Zubov.I was just pointing out this teams penchant for dumb moves and trying to relicate what they already have on the cheap!

  8. I was just pointing out this teams penchant for dumb moves and trying to relicate what they already have on the cheap!

    but keeping Avery won’t be cheap


  10. czechthemout!!!! on

    Salty- with respect,read my post.All I’m saying is that the swedish kid that they signed in way will replace Avery,even thought that is what the team is implying with his signing.

    If anyone has the NHL network,you can watch game 1 of the devils series and and see what Avery brings.

  11. czechthemout!!!! on

    At a boy Glennie,let’s bring in another primadonna to play with Jagr.

  12. http://sportsnet.ca/hockey/2008/06/23/rangers_sundin/
    Rangers received OK for Sundin talks
    Monday, June 23, 2008

    Sportsnet.ca –- The New York Rangers were granted permission by Maple Leafs general manager Cliff Fletcher to talk to free-agent-to-be Mats Sundin before the Montreal Canadiens were last week, Sportsnet has learned.

    Sources say Fletcher granted the New York Rangers permission to talk to Sundin even before the Canadians got it in an attempt to trade the Maple Leafs captain for an asset prior to him becoming an unrestricted free agent July 1.

    The Detroit Red Wings would also love to add Sundin to their lineup but did not ask the Leafs for permission to make contact before July 1.

    If Sundin makes the decision to cut ties with the Leafs and resume his NHL career with another team, New York and Montreal are believed to be his top two destinations of choice.

  13. If Anisimov plays well, they’ll find room for him. Drury could move to wing, or Anisimov can play wing. He played wing with Jagr and Gomez in scrimmages last training camp.

  14. I think were going to be alright. The Rangers have a ton of options and options are good. The players we have had have not gotten done two years in a row. So I think they are making the right move in not resigning most of our freee agents.

    As long as we have someone that is LIKE avery i think that will be fine too. It would be nice to have a line that plays like avery but has anyone thought that if we resigned aver and he had this sweedish sid on with him along with whoever in center that could be a good line but avery for the right price. Not saying thats what I woulkd do but just throwing it out there.

    I think we all like avery for the way he plays the game and as long as we dont lose that and if its cheaper hey why not.

    For once it seems the front office has a plan and well just have to wait till July 1st to see. Whether it is the right plan remains to be seen but at least they seem to have one.

  15. From Blueshirt Bulletin, the three best players on the ice were Anisimov, Tomas Zaborsky and Del Zotto today. Renney said Anisimov needs to gain more weight and strength before he’d be considered for a position with the Rangers and that makes sense to me. Supposedly all of the undrafted free agents looked overmatched and none will be asked to come to camp in September but it was only the first day.

  16. Anisimov will be interesting. I would have thought that by midseason last year they would have tried him on the wing because all the center postions are taken.

    Say what you want about Bettes but he is a big part in the penalty kill and plays hard. I would not replace him on that 4th line he fits right in with 4th line style of play.

    Anisimov would have to play in the top 3 lines and he not seeing time there unless a injury so i really dont know what they are doing with him.

    And r they planning on bringing up Sags this yr or what. I mean what is the time table for these guys like Anisimov and Sags and not only them. Sam anything??? anyone???

  17. I have to say, I’m a bit upset at all of the negative Avery talk. For starters, all of the discussion should be about these young guys who we’ll hopefully see within 3-4 years on the big club.

    Of course now since I’m annoyed with the Anti-Avery remarks I can’t get it out of my head. Hockey is a sport, one watches a sport to be entertained, the Rangers are not an entertaining team. Sean Avery is an entertaining player. Rangers+Avery=Entertaining. That’s really the bottom line to me. When Avery has been out of the lineup or not on the team, these Rangers have put me to sleep some nights. With Avery, there is no sleep.

    There is no replacement for him, I wish there was. I’m not thinking coherently, but you all get my point.

  18. pierre kidneystones on

    you are absolutely right, Dubie Rules.

    also, they are about 57-24-16 with Avery, counting playoffs, and 9-13-3 without him.

    don’t forget, when they acquired him in Feb.’07, they were on the outside of the playoffs looking in, and going nowhere fast. some negative effect he had, eh?

  19. Dubie Rules – would you sign Avery for 4 yrs and say $ 19 million. I would not. 2 years and $ 6.5 million. You would not like the Avery in the 2nd half of a 4 year contract.

  20. Dubie Rules – I meant 4 yrars $ 15 million not $ 19 million. still wouldn’t do it. Detroit and others survived without Avery. most of their players signed for hometown discount. we’re already paying Tyutin, henrik, gomez and drury too much. before you know it Dubinsky and Staal will want theirs. short term pain long term gain.

  21. I’m ready to see Avery gone too. I like him, but not for the money he expects to get. It’s really his choice if he wants to stay a Ranger (and in NYC) or not. If he was wise he’d take whatever he could get from us… he’s never going to thrive and get his metro jollies off anywhere else…

    (we all saw this coming a year ago when they first went to arbitration)

  22. Dubie, to me winning=entertaining. I like Avery a lot, really do, he’s the spark plug this team has missed since Tik, but $4 million is a lot.

    Anisimov has two months to gain some weight. He’s gonna be fine.

  23. Listen, Curb Your Enthusiam is entertaining. If you want ‘just’ entertainment, pick up a book or go to the movies. I’ve seen 0-0 hockey games that are entertaining. If you want a F’n side-show, then Avery’s your guy. He’s more worried about tellin yo-mama jokes than trying to play to his potential. Unless that IS his potential. He’s not worth nearly what he’s looking for, and that’s a horrible attitude to have around a young team that are all going to be looking for contracts in 1-3 years.

    On the prospect camp…I guess it’s just day one gitters/rustiness. Hopefully we hear some better news today. Anisimov ain’t puttin on 10lbs before training camp. Looks like he’ll be a mid-season fill-in.

    Sundin? I’m a little surprised at that one. But whoever called him a ‘primadonna’…not quite. Although I think he should have waived his NTC at the deadline last year, for the good of his team. He’s a true professional, a hell of a hockey player, and a great captain. Still has the heart to play each and every night(ahem ahem), he’s what a captain should be.

    Not that I think we should sign him, because I don’t. But I’ve always liked him as a player. Signing him woulda been great in ’02, not so sure now.

  24. I can’t blame Avery for wanting to get paid. If I were him, I’d be sitting there looking at Gary Roberts getting $2.5mn, Darcy Tucker at $3.0mn and Scott Hartnell at $4.2mn in 2007-2008.

    Now if I’m Avery, I think you can make a reasonable case that he’s a better player than Roberts and Tucker, and that he’s got Hartnell like upside. Plus the cap is rising.

    I think fair value is probably somewhere around $3.0-$3.5mn and I would be more than happy to have him back. In my opinion, the off the ice Avery that is rumored to be such a nuisance in the locker room will mature the longer he’s around. Frankly, other than the Malik fight, I never really recall hearing anything all that negative.

  25. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    JJP, I agree entirely.

    Beer, winning games is first and foremost but Avery helped win games and turn 1-0 wins and losses into interesting games. Btw: the rangers aren’t one of those teams that play interesting low scoring games by virtue of their trap and inability to transition.

    Beer, completely agree on Sundin. Big man with an edge and interest in winning every game.

    Duby Rules, you make a fine point but it lacks any praise of Chris, the ‘winner,’ Drury, a fatal flaw.

  26. I think the problem with Avery is he is thinking Hartnell and Slats is thinking a Roberts upgrade and they are $1.25m or more apart.
    I think Jagr will sign for $4.5m plus bonuses (hopefully tough ones to keep him motivated).

    I’m not sure i like these Sundin or Campbell rumours, they both seem to be out of our price range. The thing is with our young defensemen being paid peanuts we can absorb a pricey D-man for the next 3-4 seasons so will Slats splash the cash? Sundin signing i think would move Drury to LW on one of the top 2 lines and drop Dubi to #3 C.

    As for Sanguinetti and Ansimov, i think they will get a long look in camp but are destined to be #1D and #1C at Hartford to start the year. Korpikoski could stick and possibly one other, depending on what happens in free agency.

    Anyway thats my take….feel free to do the usual and rip it to shreds while posting ridiculous trade Drury comments…!!

  27. “winning games is first and foremost but Avery helped win games and turn 1-0 wins and losses into interesting games.”

    I wouldn’t argue that. But his value is right about where Slats pinned it. $2.75/per.

    I can’t believe the days have actually come that I agree with Slats. Next thing you know I’ll start listening to my wife.

  28. Sam, good stuff on Rozi if its true. I wouldn’t mind seeing him walk. He’d be too much for too little.

    As far as Sundin…how boneheaded would this be…
    Gomez, Drury, Dubi, Betts….Sundin
    So if I follow this logic the Rangers are going to have either 5 forward lines…lol
    or they are gonna trade 1 of the 4 others.

  29. Salty
    June 24th, 2008 at 12:27 am
    I’m ready to see Avery gone too. I like him, but not for the money he expects to get. It’s really his choice if he wants to stay a Ranger (and in NYC) or not. If he was wise he’d take whatever he could get from us… he’s never going to thrive and get his metro jollies off anywhere else…

    (we all saw this coming a year ago when they first went to arbitration)

    Salty…good stuff.
    Could we go so far as to say
    …dare I…
    Sather has played this one smart(ly)

  30. To me, it’s not even so much about what you pay Jags. It’s more about what his role will be. I think as a captain & a leader he’s atrocious. He has no interest in giving 100% every night. Whether it’s a matter of “he can’t” or “he won’t” is irrelavant. If he’s not going to play hard everynight, then you don’t get paid like one, and you sure as hell aren’t a teams #1 RW, or #1 anything.

    It’s the catering to Jags that has prevented the team from reaching their potential. The blame for that falls all over the place. Slats built a team in ’04 that had all of Jags’ buddies, in large part of his request. Then they slowly dissapeared over the last 2 seasons. It’s never been ‘middle of the road’ for Jags. It’s either a teammates that compliment him (pitt), or a team that suffers because of his presence (wash, ’08-’09 rangers).

  31. Beer.
    your just married, believe me, she will break you.
    Some hang tough for a while, or think they do
    but we all break.

  32. I like Sundin and he is another good character guy like Shanny. That said, first priority is D and this team needs both grit and a good transitional defenseman who can make good break-out passes. I don’t know who is more important an Orpik or Campbell / Liles type, but this has to be the first priority. Campbell & Staal would be awesome.

  33. staal – you’re not helping dude! haha

    campbell/staal would be sweet. I’d love to see it. We’ve seen a little grit from Staal here and there. And that’ll come more with getting the NHL timing and adding a few lbs. I don’t think you’re a contender without that lights-out #1 dman…campbell.

  34. I didn’t mean to imply ‘lights-out’ as ‘shut-down’. Moreso, “hands-down” #1 dman. We haven’t had one since the great #2.

  35. To me, it’s not even so much about what you pay Jags. It’s more about what his role will be.

    Bingo. I’ve also come to the conclusion that Jagr will simply not accept a “lesser role”. The fact that he is considering Omsk just shows me how interested he is in being the top dawg again. I really hope he goes, he brought this team down last year, and he has the potential to retard the growth of the rest of the team again this season.

    I dont think he signs for anything less than $6M, and even that is a strettttch…. you dangle $~12M/per in front of an ego like JJ’s, I’d be surprised if he doesn’t bite it.

  36. I think the Rangers are better with Jagr on the roster than without him. While it would be nice to bring in a homegrown player to take his spot, sorry I just don’t see anybody in the system who is going to make the team and be an offensive powerhouse. You just don’t spend multiple years in the AHL if you’re awesome.

    Its not a secret that Jagr doesn’t play with the same intensity for 82 games, he hasn’t since the early ’90s yet he’s still been great. A two year contract is a perfect transition. I guarantee people will be all over his jock again if he scores 30+ goals.

    In terms of Avangard Omsk, I’m sure they’ve offered him more money but I actually believe Jagr is more keen on staying in NY than moving to Russia.

  37. “Drury for Cheechoo & Campbell, straight up”

    Answer – NO

    Why in the hell would Sather be going after Sundin?
    So far all these reports have us going after Sundin and Hossa?

    Why is there zero talk about D men, the one thing we REALLY need?

    Campbell and Staal would be a nice pairing, and I would so rather see the $$ spent on a real #1 Dman than a one year vet deal.

    No to Sundin
    No to Hossa
    JJ 1-2 years 5mil + incentives if not Bye Bye
    Avery 2.75-3.1 for 2 years or Bye Bye
    Shanny – lesser role, less money 1 year deal if not By Bye
    Straka – going to Czech land and Im pretty sure there not going to even make him an offer
    Rosi – Trade quick or let him hit the open market
    Mara, Valli resign (MAra a discount, Valli slight Raise)
    Trade Hollweg & Backman (PLEASE get rid of Hollwegg)
    Offer sheets to Sjoestrom and Dawes
    Winger for Gomez or maybe a Hartford kid out of camp

    and as with the above posts, why in the hell are we even considering another center? We need scoring wingers and Dmen damn it.

    I have this terrible feeling Sather is going to screw up this team for next year. Wow what a shocker.

  38. Doodie Machetto on

    “How about cracking 70points or even a +10 for $7.1 million?”

    Dude, he’s overpaid too! That doesn’t change the fact that Avery shouldn’t be overpaid!

    I like how everyone points out those records with and without him in the lineup. How about looking at some deeper things. Look at Jagr’s efforts down the stretch of the last two years, where his points shoot up. He has openly admitted to saving himself for the end of the season and the playoffs. Also, look at Hank’s inconsistent performances. Avery has no effect on Hank giving up a bunch of softies, but, coincidentally, Avery has been around down the stretch when Hank has been on fire.

    And that win-loss stuff applied to Malik too, but where were all the people rallying for Malik? It’s all BS. That stat is the most meaningless stat to me. I bet there is an equally startling stat for Colton Orr, or Petr Prucha, or Nigel Dawes, or Tomas Pock, or any ridiculous player that is in and out of the lineup. Look at the stats once we acquired Christian Backman, I bet our record was fantastic afterwards! Look at our record with Valliquette in the lineup, make him our starter! That is the least valuable thing people can point out. Look at the fact that he misses 20 games a season. Yup, 4+ millon for 60 mediocre games.

  39. Doodie Machetto on

    On Sundin: Montreal has the EXCLUSIVE right to negotiate with Sundin. So anyone telling you that Rangers are negotiating with him is wrong.

    Second, has anyone else noticed that the Rangers are linked with EVERY big UFA? They just attach the Rangers’ name to any player. Trust me, we’re not looking for Sundin. We need wings, not centers. Glen isn’t that stupid. Give the guy SOME credit.

  40. Doodie Machetto on

    “Indeed, we’re told that the Rangers have held conversations with both the centerman and his representative, J.P. Barry, after having received permission to do so by Toronto. ”

    Whoever told Brooks this is wrong. The Rangers have not received permission from Toronto. Via Spector’s Trade Rumors:

    “NEW YORK POST: Larry Brooks reports of sources in Europe and North America claiming Rangers GM Glen Sather is interested in signing both Jaromir Jagr and Mats Sundin, claiming New York is Sundin’s desired destination and the Rangers have been in talks with his agent after receiving permission to do so from the Maple Leafs.

    NATIONAL POST: Michael Traikos reports *Maple Leafs GM Cliff Fletcher denied reports he’d given the Rangers permission to speak with Sundin, stating the Montreal Canadiens have exclusive negotiating rights*. Traikos and TSN’s Bob McKenzie also report Sundin’s agent saying his client is in no hurry to decide on his future plans, with McKenzie saying things are moving too fast for Sundin right now and he’ll decide on his own good time what he’ll do.

    TORONTO SUN: Lance Hornby reports the Florida Panthers might be a dark horse for Sundin’s services now that they lack a first line center.

    SPECTOR’S NOTE: Exclusive negotiating rights means no team other than the Canadiens can speak with Sundin or his agent. That of course doesn’t mean it isn’t possible some sort of back channel talk by the Rangers to let Sundin know that they’re interested in him but they can’t make an actual pitch to him. It wouldn’t surprise me if the Rangers try to land Sundin if they fail to re-sign Jagr but I don’t see Sather signing both, as that creates a log jam at center with Scott Gomez and Chris Drury, who probably wouldn’t be happy playing the wing. “

  41. If we actually signed Sundin, I would really give up all hope for this team. As of now I’m ready to give up if we sign Jagr for 2 more years. That will be a twisting knife in my heart. Jagr might make the team better “for now” but it will hurt us more down the road when he’s really gone and our young guys don’t know how to play without him. Please, for the love of all things holy, let him walk. He’s a nostalgia act and you all know it.

    I would also trade Drury for Campbell and Cheechoo in a heartbeat. HEARTBEAT.

    1. ANYTHING possible to shed that contract should be considered

    2. They both have potential to be better individual players than Drury. I’d rather have a Forward who scores or a defenseman who prevents scoring than a guy who is “kind of good” at both. GTFOOH with that.

  42. well thank God
    I give Sather credit but if the Sundin rumor was true he would have lost all my respect.

    I completely forgot about Tomas Pock
    Whats his status, I know he’s been in HArtford, does he have a shot this year at makin ghte team again or is he a bye bye

    And what about Hugh Jessiman, is he just going to be a permanent Minor leager or is there anything he can do to crack the lineup this year.

    Im hoping we get at least 1 or 2 guys (inluding Korpikoski) to crack the team out fo camp

  43. doodie – I couldn’t agree more with the ‘wins when in the lineup’ B.S. And that’s a GREAT point about Hanks timing of poor play and great play. The only player I’ve done the research on is Malik. And while it wasn’t too impressive with him in the lineup vs without, we were OVER .500 with him, and under without. It’s a B.S. stat, but its the only one he’s got on his side.

  44. I think we can all agree if Jagr left, the team would be in a better position to move forward, but lets be real, SAther and Renney and Jagr do not want that to happen, so I think its just a forgone conclusion that he is back next year and maybe for two. THen our growing pains can begin without JAgr leading the way.(or dominating the decision process for the whole team)
    Right thing to do in keeping him? – NO (and Im a JAgr fan)
    IS change hard and are people afraid of it – Yes (SAther & Renney & Jagr)
    Would we HAVE to grow as a team from within without JJ? – YES
    Would we be better of – Probably Yes

    Unless JAgr shows from day one next season that he’s here to play his ass off, its really a big unknown as to what he will be playing like next season

  45. Doodie Machetto on

    “To me, it’s not even so much about what you pay Jags. It’s more about what his role will be. I think as a captain & a leader he’s atrocious. He has no interest in giving 100% every night. Whether it’s a matter of “he can’t” or “he won’t” is irrelavant. If he’s not going to play hard everynight, then you don’t get paid like one, and you sure as hell aren’t a teams #1 RW, or #1 anything.

    It’s the catering to Jags that has prevented the team from reaching their potential. The blame for that falls all over the place. Slats built a team in ‘04 that had all of Jags’ buddies, in large part of his request. Then they slowly dissapeared over the last 2 seasons. It’s never been ‘middle of the road’ for Jags. It’s either a teammates that compliment him (pitt), or a team that suffers because of his presence (wash, ‘08-’09 rangers).”

    I think you’re half right. The guy understands his physical limitations. I think he would like to try the whole season, but would rather be at his best down the stretch and into the playoffs. As a result, he can’t be built around because he can’t lead the team the whole season. When he’s on, as he was down the stretch and in the playoffs, he’s the team’s best skater, hands down. But he paces himself, which is why he had something in the tank late in the season, unlike Shanny, who was finished by January.

    That said, I don’t think the failure of his time in Washington was because he wasn’t surrounded by who he wants. It’s because his team sucked. I mean, they flat out sucked. The success of the Rangers coming out of the lockout was partly done by bringing his friends, but it wasn’t meant to be a long term thing. Basically, Slats had sold the entire team before the lockout, and so he wanted to get a team identity, quick. He had Jagr, and so he signed as many Czechs as he could get his hands on. He added Nylander who played a similar puck possession game, and boom: we had a very European team. They meshed well as friends because of their common identity as Europeans, and it worked a lot better than I think even they expected, but it wasn’t intended to be a long term thing, but rather just a product to put out on the ice for a year while our prospects and other things panned out. The next year they jettisoned some parts of it because they were starting to implement their prospects and longer term parts. Then last year, even more. Next year, it could be only Petr Prucha! Who knows.

    Point is, the team was built around Jagr because he was a stud and we needed to do something to have an identity, quick. Now, he is not the stud he used to be (or at least, can’t be for an entire season), and so the team shouldn’t be built around him. Last season the offense was still focused around him, and it was bad for most of the season. Next year, it shouldn’t be. But that doesn’t mean he can’t be an effective member of the team. He just needs to accept the lesser role. If not, let him go. He deserved the C when he got it, and he deserved it last season as well. Maybe now he can pass it on, but if he accepts the lesser offensive role, I think he should still keep it. It’s a sign that he cares more about the team than him, which I think is a good quality of a captain. If he doesn’t accept the lesser role, I don’t think he should come back, as captain or in any regard.

  46. If you sign jags for 1yr, then 7/1/09 the best RW FA’a available are Gionta & Afinaginov. Of couse that depends on how their respective seasons play out this year. The availablitiy of UFA RW’s just isnt there. It will have to come via trade if we’re going to have a true #1RW in NY. 7/1/10 is even worse. Good thing we stocked up on some youth…we need all the trade bait we can get.

  47. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Salty, in a heartbeat! Replace Drury with any other 3rd line center in the nhl and you won’t even notice a difference. And then you 2 guys who will produce too!! Actually, you might see improvement in the PP if you replace drury and perhaps better 5on5 performance from the wingers Drury played with as well. At the same time, I don’t wanna pay Campbell 7mil on his own, not worth it. Liles and Orpik are much better options as UFA’s.

    Doodie and Beer, its one thing to talk about team records when its 10-20 games. But when a team is 30 games over .500 with a guy and below .500 without him, that seems like more than a coincidence. Why did the Rangers go from a losing streak of between 4-6, and 10th place in the East to winning like 5 or 6 in a row IMMEDIATELY starting the game Avery was aquired?

    I assume you both watch the games, a lot of games as I do, and there seemed to be a different Rangers team on the ice and a completely different temperament with Avery in the lineup.

  48. Granted, the team in Wash was horrible. And with breaking up with a long-term gf, tax problems, and gambling debt, not many people would prosper.

    I’m just ready to move on. I don’t know what else to say. I guess if he takes a lesser role, the devil may want to buy ice skates…it’s gonna freeze over pretty nice down there.

  49. “different temperament”. Sure, I’ll buy that.

    Still not worth more than $3m/1yr though. Not on my team.

  50. thanks UK. I guess HTFD is pretty nice when you make $685k. He better get used to it.

  51. Doodie Machetto on

    “I guess if he takes a lesser role, the devil may want to buy ice skates…it’s gonna freeze over pretty nice down there.”

    Touche. Truefans, I can understand that you think Drury isn’t worth 7 million. But I’d say that he is definitely better than most, if not all 3rd line centers in the league. He had 25 goals last season, leading the team. Find me another 3rd line center that did either of those things, let alone both.

  52. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Beer, I agree. I think 3 years at 9-10million is a fair deal for Avery. But some fans on here wouldn’t even take avery at league minimum.

    Don’t need to give the farm away and sign avery for Drury numbers, but about 3million for 3 years because this team was better with him, without a doubt.

  53. drury has a tough +- bc he kills penalties.. and cheechoo disappeared last yr..i would rather have drury and campbell.. f sundin

  54. Doodie Machetto on

    I’d give Avery 2 years at 4.75. No way I’d lock into him more than that. He’s a loose cannon, and could become a locker room cancer at any moment.

  55. Doodie Machetto on

    don, PK doesn’t affect your +/- unless you score a shorthanded goal, in which case you get a plus.

  56. ok, cool. I said a while back that the $9.5/3yrs was the right deal. But I’m questioning the length of the deal now. I think he’d be far to comfortable knowing he’s got 3 years. Seems like the kind of guy you need to keep on his toes. Always dangling the “moolah doolah” that he craves out there.

  57. Some more Clarification on the Sundin/Rnagers discussion
    TSN reports the following:

    – Sundin’s representatives asked the Leafs for permission to talk to the New York Rangers before any negotiating rights changed hands and were granted that permission.

    – Sundin’s representatives spoke to the Rangers to find out if they would be interested in acquiring Sundin’s exclusive negotiating rights but were told that was not something the club intended to do. No substantive talks with the Rangers were conducted after that.

    THANK GOD Sather said he wasnt interested, I thinK Sundin would have been looking for the one year, pot of gold on Broadway that we used to shell out yearly. YEah for Sather that that period is finally, hopefully, dead as can be.

  58. doodie.. yes it does.. it goes against the penalty killers if scored against and for the penalty killers if a shorthanded goal is scored for but not for the pp scorers..only against them if shorthanded goal scored against

  59. First of all why would we trade duray for cambell- and cheechoo when we can get campbell next week? how about Duray for Cheechoo and their #1 pick next year,After all that I wouldn’t trade Duray…………

  60. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    sausageface, i’m sorry you’re wrong.
    PP goals *do not* give the players from the team with a man advantage a PLUS *nor* does it give the penalized team a MINUS when a powerplay goal is scored.

    The only possible resulting plus/minus is when, for example, the Rangers have a powerplay and allow a ShortHanded goal. Then the Rangers PP will get a MINUS and the opposing 4 players will get a PLUS.

    Google it.

  61. Doodie Machetto on

    don, it does not count as a minus:


    *Whenever the team is scored against while at even strength or on a power play when the player is on the ice, his plus/minus is decreased by one.*

    those are the only situations for a minus.

  62. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Doodie, do I really need to find another center who spent half the season on the top-2 lines, used more than 65% of their team’s PP time (certainly, the starting minute of 90% of ALL Rangers PPs) and had 12 PPG’s and 13 regular strength goals?

    I could name that player and in less than $5million dollars, if you’d like.

    Tying Jagr with the team lead of 25 goals and having 58 points will getting about 20 minutes of hi-quality ice time a game is not something to gloat about. Drury was, by-and-large, a failure. Matt Cullen brought a similar game in a far diminished role. Drury is a third-line center getting paid top-center money, and for that reason I’d trade him to anybody that would take him and offer ANYTHING in return.

    Cap question guys…
    If we were to trade Gomez in 4 years, he’d have (i’m quite sure) 2 years remaining on his contract; one year at $5mil and another at $4million. Now, would the cap-hit to the team that aquires him be $4.5 million or would it be the same $7.35million hit that we are currently absorbing?

  63. Doodie Machetto on

    Drury is better than you give him credit for. But he is definitely overpaid. No argument there.

    But to answer your question about Gomez, it’s 7.35.

  64. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Doodie, do you know who else had 13 regular strength goals?
    …your boy, Sean Avery! haha.

    What does that tell you? I know Avery’s a winger, but in 25 fewer games he was JUST AS productive 5on5 as Drury. It makes you wonder if Avery, given powerplay time and playing a full-season, might have outscored your beloved Drury and had those 20 goals?? Hmmm…ring ring, guess who’s calling? haha

  65. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Doodie, that’s kinda weird then with Gomez. They’d be looking to trade to a team with a low pay-roll who can absorb the cap hit of $7.35 million while only actually paying an extremely wise $4.0million.

  66. It’s going to be awfully boring around here without Avery. Wake up Sather and re-sign the fan’s favorite.

  67. doodie..u r right.. i thought it was the other way around..any way..i think people get way too excited for players that they don’t see all the time..check out cheechoo’s stats..not that impressive..and fewer points that drury..drury is a born winner..he’s here for a reason..dubi can skate with jagr we don’t need sundin

  68. doodie..u r right.. for some reason i though it worked against the pk..any way..i think people get way too excited for players that they don’t see all the time..check out cheechoo’s stats..not that impressive..and fewer points that drury..drury is a born winner..he’s here for a reason..dubi can skate with jagr we don’t need sundin

  69. Doodie Machetto on

    Avery’s goals came in a bunch. He was hot for a short period of the season, and did nothing for the rest. Two goals in early November, then nothing for 16 games until January, where he scored 2 in 3 games. Then nothing until February, where he got hot, and scored 7 goals in 12 games. Then he had 2, 2 goal games in March. Way to be consistent.

    Also, Avery had more ES TOI/game than Drury, although it was close. But point is, they had pretty similar icetimes. And let’s not forget who their linemates were during those times. Avery had Gomez. Drury had a rotation of Prucha, Dawes, and Callahan. Gomez is the best passer and fastest skater on the team. Dawes/Callahan/Prucha are 3rd liners. So, again, not a fair assessment.

    Also, Drury led the team in shorthanded TOI/g, so that would make his ES a little less effective too.

    And I like how you neglect the PP aspect of it. Avery had a little less than half of the PP TOI/g than Drury, yet Drury had 12 PP goals, and Avery only two. Hmmm…

    If you’re trying to say that Avery is as good as Drury, you will NEVER win that argument. I didn’t like the Drury signing, and still don’t, he’s grossly overpaid. But to say Avery is anywhere approaching his level is laughable.

    Chris Kelly just signed for 4 years at like 8.5 million. Does Avery think he is honestly worth double that? Get real.

  70. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Beer, its possible both have NTC’s, I was just thinking hypothetically if the rangers didn’t want to lose Gomer to UFA market the following year. Drury is a straight 7.1 million next 4 years so the cap hit and actual cost are the same.

    Anybody know the reasoning behind hanks contract? It jumps back and forth between 7.75 and 6.875 once or twice, a staggered contract.

  71. Doodie Machetto on

    Truefans, think about small market teams that aren’t spending to the cap. They can afford the cap space, while keeping their actual payroll slimmer.

    Of course, the idea is, with such a big contract, you don’t get traded until the last year of it.

    And to answer another question, Drury has a NTC.

  72. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Doodie, you’re wrong in your comparison. Avery’s goals, I believe, mostly came when paired with Jagr and Dubi. Also, when Avery saw that ‘half as much’ PP time it was almost exclusively with the second PP unit. Lest we also not forgot Drury played 2 stints at center with Jagr and couldn’t mesh. Avery also spent games centering the 3rd line and 4th line halfway through the season and during injuries.

    All in all, I’m not saying Avery’s better than Drury because they’re different players in different positions. But I do believe Avery, besides being injured those 25 games, succeeded in his role while Drury was a failure. Not only was Drury a failure at being a top-2 line center, he was also a failure in the playoffs…and that would be the case even if he was making 5million!

  73. Drury played to his average #’s. So did Avery.

    Drury was only a failure if you’re measuring against the ‘hype’ that followed him to NYR. Measured against what he delivers year after year…he was right on par. Overpaid or not. Which he is, but that’s never been in question.

  74. If you want to find the biggest failure of last season, it would be Jagr.

    Not the worst player, but furthest from playing their best. Even Malik played pretty much the same as always.

  75. The issues with Sundin are as follows:

    1) The guy is 37. He is on his sunset lap. He’s old. This is classic old Rangers mentality if they sign him.

    2) Last year he would not waive his no trade clause to go to a contender. Doesn’t that say something about his motivation?

    3) Now he wants to test the market and says NY is where he wants to go? Puuhhhlease! He thinks the Rangers will pay up for him, but last year he didn’t want to go try and win a Cup? No thanks.

    4) Drury might have to go play wing? Again, no thanks.

    Don’t need Sundin. Send Shanny packing as well. We need to get younger and hungrier, not old and wise but lacking energy and motivation.

  76. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    And Beer, what about Drury and clutch goals down the stretch and in the playoffs? He scored to make it 5-1 against Montreal, but what about 6-5 when the Habs came roaring back? I think that game went to a shootout too and drury didn’t score then either. I think drury had 1 game winner in the playoffs, a 4-1 goal in the game the devils came back to make it 4-3.

    Where’s the winner? Where’s the clutch?!! He ended up playing 3rd line and doing almost nothing in the playoffs and his supporters here (on this blog) wanna call Avery the clown?? Beer, not to you specifically, but anyone reading this, if you’re a supporter of Drury, and an Avery hater: then you are the true clown. Now compare those stats, Drury vs. Avery in the playoffs.

  77. Whether or not Drury played to his numbers, I still can’t understand why people want him here with that bloated contract and questionable production. Like TrueFans said, I would trade him to pretty much *any team* that was willing to take that $7M hit off our hands. If you wouldn’t _hypothetically_ trade Drury for Cheech AND Campbell at the drop of a hat, I think you care less about the Rangers future and more about that $250 to dropped on your #23 Rbk Edge sweater. It’s not even about those players, it’s about the fact that you get a mulligan on that giant mistake contract.

    Drury = Handcuffs

    We can only pray he asks for a trade AND that someone is willing to take him at that point. To be honest, I don’t think Drury will be here through season after next. Something will happen. We simply cannot afford to keep this player through the remainder of his contract if we intend to compete for a championship.

  78. Again…’hype’. We all know he’s capable of it. It ended our season once! I wouldn’t call the guy a failure though. I think it’s just the wrong term.

    And to address your (indirect) statement, I’m not a 100% ‘avery hater’. I just think the guy is an ego-tystical jerk-off. And one who’s looking for way more than he’s worth. A bad influence on young developing talent. A side-show. Amongst other things. But I still wouldn’t say I’m an “Avery-hater”. I kinda would like to see him get $4mil per though. Just to watch him get torn apart like Drury does around here.

  79. re Drury – he played 1 year lets see what he does this coming year before anybody throws him under the bus. he has a lot of pride and does a lot of great things away from the puck. its not only about goals re production. and I’m saying this acknowledging that he is overpaid. but with the cap going up that will help mitigate that. and the only reason he is the “3rd center” is Dubinsky is playing with jagr. if Jagr does not come back Drury is 2nd line.

    re Avery – its not about being an Avery hater but rather the contract especially the years he’ll want. 2 yrs and $ 6.5 million yes. 4 yrs and near $ 4 million per no thanks, the last 2 years if not before you would want him off this team big time.

  80. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Beer, the avery hater comment wasn’t directed at you. You already mentioned 3 yrs at 9.5mil, which I think is very fair.

  81. I wouldn’t call the guy a failure though. I think it’s just the wrong term.


    Agreed. Just as “absolute winner” is the wrong term as well. I’d say “poor signing” pretty much nails it.

  82. true – I know, just felt like addressing it…again. haha

    I don’t think “poor signing” is even right. “overpaid” nails it.

    But ‘you’ can’t use overpaid guys to justify other players salaries. Exactly like the case of Tucker. Go read a Leafs blog back from mid-season and they’d tell you the guy’s not worth d!ck. That mistake shouldn’t justify anyone else’s salary. Same thing with toots. He’s overpaid by at LEAST $500k/yr.

  83. Eventhough Drury is overpaid, I still like his play. I wouldn’t have offered that much to him, but if it were I that were offered the dough, I woulda signed the fuggin contract too. So don’t run the guy out of town…it’s slats’/maloney’s fault in the 1st place!

  84. SeamusORiley on

    anyone worry about Avery being injury prone? He plays bigger than he is…
    just another thought in the ongoing Avery debate…

    I wish we had signed him during the year when he was a bit off his game…I think Sather does not like him.

  85. Even though Drury is overpaid, I still like his play.


    He’s a +good+ hockey player, for sure. I have nothing on him personally, although I do contend he is and potentially will be a poor captain if we gave him the letter. The only reason I’d want him “gunned out of town” is to make cap space for a real difference maker that we wouldn’t have to go calculating ridiculous statistics on to justify their presence.

    It’s becoming painfully obvious that signing Chris Drury is going to cost us other signings for the next 4 seasons. It was absolutely poor signing on Glen’s part, I don’t fault Chris at all for signing the paper or anything silly like that. It just sucks that this huge handicap is on us now that we apparently know what we need to do, we just won’t be able to afford it with the contracts we’re shouldering and a GIANT part of the pie going to a player who is apparently not going to be held responsible for doing a GIANT part of the work.

    In retrospect I would take Matt Cullen back in a heartbeat and I hated him by the end of the season. I salivate at the thought of paying only $3M for that type of player/production. I seriously am at a loss with Drury though. He’s just like this awkward rigid sopressata that youre not sure where to put him… and I love how the media is feigning concern for him losing his position if Sundin was signed… thats part of that $7M deal buddy, you play where you are put.

  86. If Tuomo Ruutu and his 10 goals, 22 assists in 72 games signs today for $2.25mn/year its hard for me not to see how that is not the floor for the absolute floor for Avery’s contract.

    What do people really think Drury should have gotten paid?

    I’ll stipulate that he’s overpaid but I don’t think by that much, maybe $1mn tops. I’m sorry but I can’t help going back to the fact that 1) centers get paid more than wings, and 2) you need defensive forwards and guys who can win faceoffs.

  87. Hey, NYR offered Avery $2.75m. HE turned it down. At least Rutuu’s scored 20 goals once. Rutuu’s was also a 1yr deal. Something Sean “Strike A Pose” Avery has refused.

  88. You know, not for nothin here…but Avery got tons of ice time this year and didn’t break 20 goals. Prucha with the same time 2 & 3 seasons ago not only broke 20, but 30. Sure, Avery brings a lot of things that Prucha could only dream about. But Petey is only making $1.6m.

    For a team that finished 25th in goals scored, maybe that ‘grit’ isn’t the most important thing.

    I don’t know…I’m just thinkin out loud.

  89. What do people really think Drury should have gotten paid?


    During the Buffalo series, when they first started talking about Drury maybe going to the Rangers…. I was saying “I don’t want him at all”. I saw how sluggish (no pun) the Sabres looked in the playoffs and I thought a lot of that had to do with Drury being a quiet little pussy on the bench and in the locker room. I also noticed that “Captain Clutch” had to share his captaincy with pussy #2 Danny “Boy” Briere…which is pathetic and Drury should still be ashamed that they didn’t let him shoulder it on his own (although it’s understandable now after watching him for a year why they wouldn’t).

    I eventually said, I’d take Drury at NOTHING MORE THAN *$5M/per* and he DOES NOT get to wear our C, possibly an A down the line… *but I did not want Drury, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES brought to the Rangers to be “the guy”.*

    I always wanted Gomez here, from the minute I heard it was a possibility. I will admit, I truly thought he and Jagr would work together famously. Gomez is overpaid as well, but once you start (I’m saying this like it might ever fucking happen) building your offense around him, it will pay off.

    Gomez is way better at what he does than I ever expected, and I’ll tell you one thing…if you’re looking for “entertainment” as a lot of people have mentioned the last few days, look no further than Scott Gomez as one of the most entertaining skaters MSG has ever seen. Even a guy like Crosby simply cannot move the puck from one zone to the next with such ease as Alaska Scotty. Enjoy this player while he’s here, and just hope we find him a player to finish what he starts because we will be in for a real treat.

  90. Offer Avery a 1 yr, 3m deal. If he can play more than 2/3 a season and get 50 points, then he can have 4m the following year.

  91. I can’t believe some people here are questioning the heart of Mats Sundin. The guy is 100% pure effort. The reason he didn’t waive his NTC at the deadline is because the media in TO was attacking him saying if he left he’d be abandoning the team. Now that he stayed and is thinking about going elsewhere to free up cap room for the Leafs, they are saying he’s a liar. The guy is a great captain. He defends his players, he has 100% passion for the game and goes out there every night giving it his all. Now if he wasn’t 37 I’d say sure I’ll take him because I could see him and Jagr having similar chemistry to Nylander and Jagr. However I don’t want to see either in a Rangers uni next year not because I don’t like them, but just because its holding us back from the future.

    And I’d take that Cheechoo/Campbell for Dru trade in a second. Actually less than a second. I think we all really like Drury, just not for the contract. Campbell has proven that in the East he can be dominant. Cheechoo I think just needs a change of scene, plus working with Gomez is better than working with Thornton in his case (even though they were split up earlier this year). Thornton is a much better playmaker/passer than Gomer, however nowhere near as fast. I think with Gomez’s speed, Cheechoo could be effective again and could score 40 or more goals.

  92. Oh also, Sundin still wants to play in the NHL, but he is considering retirement because A) he just or is just getting married during the offseason and B) since he’s getting married, if he can’t devote himself 100% to the game of hockey, he doesn’t want to play. unlike what people think Jagr might do where he’ll talk behind peoples backs, when Sundin says something and the circumstances around it don’t change (like the did in the Leafs situation), then he means what he says.

    oh, his future wife is pretty damn hot.

  93. fans need to learn about the GM plays the press for his own benefit game.

    Sather, like many GMs, plants rumors in the media to get the fans on his side in negotiations.

    Avery never said he wanted $4 mil. Sather planted that rumor to get just what has resulted, fans siding with Sneerlip because they fancy themselves junior green eye shade GMs with OPM. even though it is accomplished on a false rumor.

    by the same token, agents also plant rumors to help the player. so it goes both ways. but, we know that Avery himself has NEVER said he demands $4 mil

    I hope he goes to the Pens and sticks it up Sneerlip’s ass

  94. ok, I asked him. He didn’t really give an answer though. He just started singing…. “I’m too sexy for my shirt, so sexy it hurts”… I told him I’d call back.

  95. bottom line if you know anything about hockey drury is more valuable than avery.. my over/under for games played next yr by avery is 45..that is if he isn’t in the miss america pageant

  96. Avery never said he wanted 4 million…his agent did though.

    Also question, if you guys could have Jagr for maybe like 6 mil or Sundin for a little less than that to be captain, who would you guys take if you had no other option but to pick one of the two?

  97. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Sundin for one year. Jagr for never. His hearts no longer in NY, his performance shows it. Its the cycle he followed everywhere else too.

  98. Speed Ranger on

    Jagr over Sundin. Jagr and Avery will both be resigned. Now everybody go find a happy hour!

  99. how can you say that you would not want drury, whe did over pay but what can we do. he scored more goals than everyone (tied jags)on our low production team. and also as i remember (could be a little hazy) but his +- went way down real quick at the begining of the season (maybe feeling the pressure of playing here)but he started playing the way i expected him to and as i heard the coaching staff expected him to play the latter half of the season. also he was born and raised a NYR fan and personally if i (or any other NYR fan that plays)got the chance to play in the garden as he does i would give it my all every night, and i think we will see this over the next few years and hopefully one day our new core of drury, gomer, hank, dubi and staal will bring us the cup.


  100. if we got a chance to trade drury’s deal for a guy with equal production and a d-man that helps us on the PP and in front of our net for maybe 3 mil more, I’d do it. 7 mil/1 is more than 10 mil/2.

  101. Number one, you all have way too much time on your hands.

    Number two, comparing Avery to Drury is stupid. Someone else mentioned that and it is completely true. They are different players who play different styles. Drury plays like your grandmother drives (slowly and carefully and painful to watch) and Avery plays like that 17 year old who just got his first car.

    This team isn’t winning a cup soon. With Hank in net, the playoffs are a possibility every year, but even a hot goalie can’t score goals for his team also. I’m not going to speculate where the Rangers will finish last year because I don’t know who will be on the team, but I’m not feeling very optimistic…

  102. This just a test, keep posting from office and it doesn’t take…even when I’m not posting George Carlins 7 dirty words….

  103. SeamusORiley on

    OK, I have to ask:

    How would you know if the GM is planting false stories in the press in order to get fans on his side?

    Seriously. Gene Pool: how do you know such a thing?

  104. SeamusORiley on

    Sather called Avery a detriment to the team. That is just not a good thing.

  105. Avery is completely gone. So now I want to bitch about how I don’t want Tucker.

  106. JDP
    I think your defense of Mr. Bettman was a bit simplistic, but I know you have only so many lines of type you can devote to it. As fans, we get to question Bettman and the league office. Obviously it takes business acumen to run an organization like the NHL, but it is also not that hard to understand why many folks think he is way too unknowledgeable about the game.

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