OK, now I don’t know what to think

38

Lots of news on the second day of the draft, and only some of it has to do with who the Rangers picked.

Among the nuggets:

<li>The Rangers might not want to let Jaromir Jagr go after all, “reports John Dellapina”:http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/hockey/rangers/2008/06/21/2008-06-21_rangers_want_jaromir_jagr_to_stay.html.

<li>What is becoming increasingly clear is “the tumultuous Sean Avery Era in New York is drawing to a close”:http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/hockey/rangers/2008/06/21/2008-06-21_rangers_on_verge_of_letting_sean_avery_g.html.

<li>Larry Brooks reports the Rangers have been given the OK to “negotiate with free agent defenseman Brian Campbell”:http://www.nypost.com/seven/06222008/sports/rangers/rangers_given_ok_to_talk_to_campbell_116657.htm.

<li>If the Jagr talks go nowhere, there’s always Marian Hossa, who “said he is going to test the free agent market”:http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=3455558 despite an offer from the Penguins.

<li>And last but not least, congratulations to Suffern twins Justin and Drew Daniels, who were selected in the third and seventh round of the draft respectively by San Jose. The Journal News’ Jeff Gold “has that story”:http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080622/SPORTS02/806220356/-1/SPORTS.

The Rangers are expected to bring in all their draft selections for a prospect minicamp at the MSG Training Center this week. My plan is to check in from there tomorrow…

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38 Comments

  1. Good to hear that Jagr is still being thought of,Avery Have fun in LA,or where ever you go.
    Hossa NO THANK YOU…..
    Campbell not for that money….
    Orpik will be a Ranger by the time July 1st ends….
    I still see the Rangers making a trade to get a big power foward,there are none on the free agent market so a trade is the only way we get one.This is someone we REALLY need to get.I have no idea who for but it must get done…………………

  2. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Cap hits:
    Gomez: $7.35,
    Drury $7.05,
    Lundqvist $6.9,
    and possibly now Campbell for $7.0?

    That’s $28million between 4 players, none of which can truly put the puck in the net. What about a top-4 winger? I hear those guys are important these days too.

    I’m not against signing defensmen (the Rangers need solid defense badly), but Campbell isn’t the solution and certainly not at his price tag. I liked the Orpik-Streit suggestion from one of the papers and it’s 2 players for about the price of 1 Campbell.

  3. Well, the team needs a true #1 defenseman. I think a top pairing of Campbell and Staal would pretty much be the envy of the entire Eastern Conference. Then we just have to either turn Tyutin and Girardi into a #2 pair or sign 2 more guys to fill out the 2nd defensive unit.

    Honestly, if Roszival is seeking $5 million per, it is easily worth spending another $1.5 million to have an actual #1 defenseman playing in the #1 spot, as opposed to a #3 there.

  4. The Rangers right now have about $31 million tied up if they elect to waive Backman. That includes Lundqvist, Tyutin, Girardi, Staal, Drury, Gomez, Dubinsky, Betts, Callahan, Prucha, Orr, Dawes, Hollweg. So basically they need 3 defensemen – IMO all of them should preferably be top 4 guys – and 3 wingers, all of whom unfortunately may need to be top six guys.

    They’ve got about $25 million to work with. So if you sign Campbell for $6.5, and sign Jagr for $7, you’re down to $12 million to sign 2 defensemen and 2 forwards. Avery’s not coming back. Shanny should come cheaper this year, think $3 million. I’d prefer they not do it but I think they will bring him back and try to eventually groom a Callahan or a Dawes to take over his second line role while he drops down. Now you have $9 million to sign a backup goalie and 2 more defensemen. Assume Korpikoski cracks the lineup, hat’s an $800k cap hit. There’s still room. Do you forget about Shanny and also think about Hossa? I don’t know. Could be very interesting.

  5. Speed Ranger on

    Why isn’t our with Avery / Without Avery record enough reason to resign him???

  6. Dr. Ogrodnick on

    Speed Ranger; We also have a very good record with Malik in the lineup. Should he be brought back too?

    Peter; If we bring in Campbell the Rangers will need to keep Backman and his relatively low cap hit around. Personally I’d rather see Liles, Orpik, and Ryder signed.

  7. “Honestly, if Roszival is seeking $5 million per, it is easily worth spending another $1.5 million to have an actual #1 defenseman playing in the #1 spot, as opposed to a #3 there.”

    That’s EXACTLY right Peter!

    Bye Bye Sean-y. Let’s see who’s crazy enough to pay you $4mil. You ain’t worth it pal. I’m curious to see if he wimpers back into slat’s office after he’s laughed at by a few GM’s.

    For the first time, I can’t actually disagree with slat’s position is on ANY of these UFA’s. I have a feeling that Shanny will not be under contract with any team in sept. We’ll see what happens.

  8. I went to Suffern with the Daniels who got drafted by San Jose, thats pretty awsome for them

  9. Offering Avery $2.75 per is damn insulting on Sather’s part. How can he possibly think that’s what he’s worth? This kid has said on more than one ocassion how much he loves this team and would do anything to be a Ranger and Sather doesn’t care at all. We finally get someone with passion and who just loves to be here and Sather is just going to let him leave with an incredibly low offer from us.

    This organization is just terrible…

  10. From what I’ve seen, I wouldn’t say the Jagr/Avery era is necessarily over, just that Sather’s willing to gamble a bit. Sather’s made a very calculated move that he can get better value after July 1, after overpaying for UFA’s in the past (as good as Gomez and Drury are, those huge contracts aren’t exactly “value”).

    Roszival – I think he represents the most underdiscussed part of all of this. Sather hasn’t exactly given him the vote of approval as our present and future #1. Other’s have mentioned it here too…It looks like Sather would rather upgrade and pay someone else 6 or 7 mil than give Roszy 5. Which means he has to save money elsewhere to pay for that…

    Avery – Clearly Sather isn’t Avery’s biggest fan (and vise versa). Sather’s betting on those $4mil a year offers not materializing and Avery coming back with his tail between his legs. And if the crazy offers do come, he has no intention of matching.

    Jagr – Again Sather is pulling the “So, how much do you really want to be a Ranger?” tough love here. I don’t think anyone here would want or expect the Rangers to match if someone else offered him something like 3 years at 8 or 9 mil per. I can see Sather caving on 2 years if Jagr is willing to compromise on the money.

  11. czechthemout!!!!! on

    The “so called knowledgable fans”of this site are at it again.One guy thinks that the record of this team with Malik in the lineup is as legit a comparison as with Avery.Using that dumb logic is as valid as saying that their record with Scrubwick is good as well,implying that Scrubwick is as vital a player as Avery is to this team.
    One Fan dismisses him with scorn and sarcasm never once admitting that Avery has been as vital a player to this team as Jagr and Lundquist.Avery is not a 4million year player and even Sather has denied he ever asked for that much.He is however worth the 3-3.5 area that I think it will take to sign him.Another question than comes up.If Sather uses Steve Kelly as the comparison to Avery,why is it that he turned down a trade straight up for Kelly? The answer is becuase he clearly thiks as I do that Avery is the much better player.

  12. I thought signing Campbell was a good idea to solve the power play issue the Rangers have, but with the signing of Del Zotto coupled with Staal, Girardi, Toots and Sanguetti it certainly looks like that isn’t going to happen.

    I don’t see why the Aves would let Lilles walk after freeing up room by trading Tanguey and with Sakic possibly not coming back.

    That leaves the Rangers with the same problem on defense, unless they feel Staal can handle the job better this upcoming season or they make an offer to Streit out of Montreal with a three year deal.

    On Jagr: What’s his mindset? Does he simply want to come back to play hockey and make $6 million per season? Or does he want to win a Stanley Cup? Losing Avery, Shanny, Straka, Rozival and moving onto a younger roster the Rangers certainly don’t appear to be a team poised to win a Cup next season, especially with Pittsburgh, Montreal Washington and Philadelphia with stronger rosters.

    Signing Campbell/Streit, Orpik, Gratton or Brunnete and then finally Jagr and Shanny as the final piece would signal the Rangers are going for it again. But just signing Jagr and then sprinkling some youth around him doesn’t give me much hope of Lord Stanley coming to Broadway this season.

    So then which Jagr will the team get for the entire season? The same one we had this past season who plays at 75% game in and game out and who we all get frustrated with and clamor for his head only for him to turn it on if indeed the Rangers even make the playoffs?

    I think the Rangers either go all out again this offseason, sign as many high priced UFA’s as they can and go at it for two more seasons until Jagr retires.

    Or they cut ties with Jags this summer and move on without him, instead choosing to sign guys like Gratton and Orpik and becoming a much “tougher” team to play against game in and game out and wait for their kids like Cheraponov, Anisemov, Korpikoski, Sanguetti, Del Zotto and Moore to mature and develop.

    As much as I love watching Jagr play the game, I think he should wait and see what the Rangers look like come August 1st and then decide whether the Rangers have the roster he wants to play within.

  13. czechthemout!!!!! on

    As for Jagr,todays articles in the post and daily news confirm what I’ve been saying for years about Jagr.It is that he has more imput on the team than Renney.His type of player is the type that NEVER wins a championship(HE WAS A PLEB EARLY IN HIS CAREER).He bitches and moans about his linemates not being able to play “his” game.He complains about how the coaching staff wants to run the powerplay and ignores what the coaches want to do on the PP.He holds the puck along the side boards,passes it incesantly for 90 seconds with the rest of his czechmates,and than he takes a low percentage shot from a bad angle along the side boards.

    A break with Jagr must be made.This team needs to turn over leadrship to Gomez,Drury,and some of the younger players like Callahan and Staal/Girardi.Sather has to move away from the big name signings or it will paralize this franchise for years to come because of the salary cap.Brian Campbell is a nice player.He is however a complimentary player,not a franchise dman.Top pay him 7-8 million a year is absurd considering that you have in the system Sags and Del Zotto now who are the same type of player.This team needs to find a crease clearing dman,that’s the most glaring weakness on the team.Orpik will cost between 4-5 million,a sum much better spent.Their is even a cheaper alternative in Commodore and Kurt Sauer as well as Mike Sauer later in the season if he can recover from his injury.

    On a side note,I can’t believe that Sather is even considering Shanny for any other role than as an assistant coach or consulting type job.And as someone on here said at 3MILLION!!!!!!!!!PER.Thats just pain crazy.

    The bottom line is that in the course of building a team,you sometimes have to take one step back in order to take two or three steps forward.Doing what we’ve been doing is just stupid.We have been a mediocre team that is finishing in the middle of the pack and always drafting in the 17-21 range.That is unacceptable.We are not now nor have we been a Stanley cup contender and as an orginization have to take our lumps for one season or two in order to move forward.I am willing to be patient as a fan,is anyone else?

  14. I don’t get the Campbell thing. Is Sanguinetti the real deal Is he (less than) a year away? Did we just draft another offensive defenseman? Why would we bring in this softie for 7 mil per? Bring in someone like Lisle instead.

  15. Happy to hear the news about Jagr. I hope a deal gets done soon. Let’s go Jagr! Let’s go Rangers! :)

  16. As for Jagr, I understand about the double teams he draws. I see it. I also see that he does not take good advantage of it. He tries to fight through them on his own and does not pass well out of them. He moves the puck too slowly. So big deal he draws a double team. We were not exactly an offensive juggernaut as a result of all this open ice Jagr creates.

  17. czechthemout!!!!! on

    And why would Sather wan’t to trade a second or a third round oick in next years draft,a draft thought to be even better than this year’s for a ten day window? If Campbell’s
    agent can’t see the forrest from the trees that I say f-k him and his soft overrated client.

  18. I’m very suprised about the whole Avery situation. I thought it was pretty much a slam dunk that he was going to return. I would like him back but think the money he wants is too high and obviously Sather believes this also. I guess it will all depend on how much the market values him.

  19. Kasper’s Avery take:

    If you bring back the old suspects (Jagr, Shanny, Straks,Rozy)then you NEED to bring back Avery for ENERGY factor alone, these other guys are either older and slower (Straks and Shanny) or by their own admition they play less than 100% (Jagr) or just play halk asleep half the time (Rozy)

    but……

    If you let the old crew depart and make this more of a Dubinsky-Dawes-Staal-Cally team, supporting Gomer and Dru
    Then the ENERGY factor should take care of itself and Avery would not be needed and, because of negative attention from league and refs ( see Avery rule) may even be a detriment

    Your thoughts?

  20. First off Sather even said Averys agent isnt and wasnt ever asking for 4 Mil, so lets stop saying thats what he’s looking for
    As a guess he’s probably asking for anywhere from 3.0-3.6 mil with a two year deal
    We paid him last year what 1.9? so Sather prob wants to stay in the 2.5-2.9 mi per range

    And Sather has said from day 1 that he likes avery, he plays liek sather used to , and has a mouth to mathc his own.
    in the end, I think Averys love of NYC, fashion and his own profile in this city will be incentive enough for him to come down and meet SAther at a reasonable price.

    And I dont blame Sather for doing what he’s doing, he’s gonna get Avery for what he’s worth, not what the MARKET thinks he’s worth.

    2 years at 2.7 per year is what I’m seeing the final offer to be. if he says no, fuck him and dont let the door slap you ass on the way out

    Campbell – Even though Im not a huge fan of the idea, I do see Sather making a SERIOUS push for him. Fomrer teamate of Drury’s, etc etc. Im not saying it makes sense for his price, but if he can be had for 6-7 mil per year, I have a feeling they’ll do it.

    And where is any news of Orpik? does he even consider the NYR a team he would come to? Are we even on his list?
    Same with Streit and the others, I havent heard or read anything saying they’d like to come to Broadway.

    Shanny, and I am a huge fan of his, will unfortunately be back. Sather epsects him and wouldnt tell him to wait if he wasnt seriously going to give him an offer. ANd SHanny doesnt want to play anywhere else. Just hope it’s ALOt cheaper and with a lesser role, unless somehow he works his ass off with Chelios this summer and becomes and jugernaught! But I doubt it

    Bye Bye Backman, Malik, Rosi, Straka.

  21. The Rangers aren’t serious contenders.

    Signing Campbell won’t make them serious contenders.

    Any free agent signings should be for guys in their early to mid 20s who can potentially be on the team for 10 years. Signing skill guys in their late 20s only leads to overpayment at the end of their inevitable 6 or 7 year contracts. Of course with the exception of Drury and Gomez, who are being overpaid at the beginning of their contracts, yeesh, can you imagine them in a few more years!?

  22. Sather needs to move on and forget Jagr unless Jagr buys into the present game plan. Don’t see Jagr being happy and buying into the Ranger philosophy the way the team is built right now.

    Sather’s immediate need is for a crease clearing defenseman. After that, a forward to take Jagr’s place and an offensive defenseman to take Roszival’s place.

    Oprik may not be available since Hossa is headed to unrestricted free agency. That frees up $$$ for Pittsburgh to sign Oprik. What other crease clearing defenseman are on the market?

    Same question in case Jagr is not signed and Hossa deemed too expensive?

    Is Campbell the answer, or will the Rangers be outbidded by another team? If not Campbell, then who??

    Wasn’t that Swedish player the Rangers signed supposed to be a repacement for Avery?

    Even though I like both Gomez and Drury, the Rangers paid a hefty sum for them. That was market conditions and the Rangers needed change. Might have been better to use Cullen the way Carolina did and not have to sign both Gomez and Drury. Money saved could sure be used now.

    If Sather gives in to Jagr and builds around his desire to have things his way, then Sather is being Sather. Let him go, move on and build the team around Gomez and Drury since they were so expensive.

  23. I think the Rangers could certinly be competetive this season with a more balanced and tougher team. They could make the playoffs and with the right acquisition at the deadline could make some noise and be a more cinderella team.

    Out: Shanny, Jagr, Rozival, Straka, Malik

    IN: Avery

    UFA’s: Niklas Hagman, Jason Chimera or Ryan Malone on left wing

    Michael Ryder or Brian Rolston (who just rejected Minnesota’s latest offer to him) as a right wing signing

    Orpik or Commodore on defense

  24. kaspar – that IS a very interesting take. Certainly an angle that I haven’t heard. I guess you kind of hope that one guy won’t be the reason you have energy(avery) or one guy that your offense hinges upon(jags). Or for that matter, one goaltender (see the Stanley Cup Champs for an example). Not a bad thing when there’s a 1st ballot HOF’er sitting on the bench as a backup, eh?

    “Wasn’t that Swedish player the Rangers signed supposed to be a repacement for Avery?” I don’t know Lenny, from what I’ve read, it looks like he’s a ‘mini-avery’, a ‘Hartford edition’ if you will.

    And whether or not Slats is able to sign any big UFA’s, at least his attempts show that he is concerned about making the team better.

  25. I really don’t know what to think anymore. There are alot of options but one thing is for sure, you CAN NOT have half of your teams salary wrapped up in 3 players (gomez duruy). 21 million or whatever it would be with campbell is not what you want for your future.

    Make a tougher team and a grind it out team is what you need to do. As for jagar I would almost not want him back. Avery for no higher than 3.3 mill a yr ill take.

  26. kurt – I do agree with that. TB became a pile of shit with 3 big players up front and nothing to spend on the rest. BUT…even if we spend $21m on 3 players, the cap has gone up almost $7m since TB had their big 3 signed to those contracts. So…$21m within a cap of almost $57m isn’t then end of the world. It’s less than 1/2 of your cap. You can even add in Hank’s $7m and you’re at 1/2. I guess it all depends on WHO you’re paying those $$’s to.

    Gomer’s a pretty consistent hockey player. Drury too, regardless of if he’s making $1m too much. Hank’s entering his prime, and I’m pretty confident we’re looking at the next Ranger goalie to have his # retired. Campbell IS a question mark as to his value really being 6.5-7m. It just depends on how bad you need a guy to close the gap between making insane passes up and out of the zone and taking it end to end…cause HE can. And it’s been quite a while since NY’s had that guy.

  27. Dr. Ogrodnick on

    Czechthemout: If you are going to make the argument that Avery needs to be re-signed because of the Rangers record with him in the lineup, the same argument can be made about Malik. I’m sorry if logic is too complex for you.

  28. I dunno… I feel like letting Avery walk might not be a bad thing. The guy is always injured and is a detriment for sure but not in the lockeroom… more in the eyes of the refs and how they treat the entire team due to his actions.

    If he were consistently in the lineup and consitently agitated the way we all know he can… he’d be worth the 3.0 – 3.5m But that’s not the case. I love him and want him to stay but not for that kinda cash.

  29. ^ good point! he seems to get hurt alot and if were only gonna get him for 50-60 games a year how is he worth the 3-4 mil. though i do still want him back. if jags is back i want avery back aswell. and put back together the avery-dubi-jags line.

  30. PruchaOverated on

    Do people not realize Shanny never recovered from the knee on knee at the end of the season. I’m sure after the summer he will be fully recouperated. I think it’s pretty stupid to let go of a hall of famer who still works his ass off on the ice and hope one of the young guys can step in and fill his spot. Just a reminder Shanny was third on the team in goals and that doesn’t count the shootout. The penalty kill etc etc. I’m telling you right now letting him walk is a big mistake. Rangers are playing games with alot of our goals last year Jagr Shanny Avery. I don’t care who we pick up this team will be in the toilet without 2 out 3 of them.

  31. Campbell = pansy. 5m to Orpik (market value) is better spent than 7m+ to Campbell.

  32. czechthemout!!!! on

    dr.ogrodnick-

    let me spell it out for you.Your argument is a falicy.When the human pylon was put out to pasture this year the rangers continued to play well and win.Avery was in the lineup Malik was not.Malik could not touch Avery’s jock strap in terms of importance to the team.Let me ask you one question,would the rangers have made the playoffs the last two years without Avery in the lineup? When you answer that question you’ll understand why Avery is iportant to this team.

  33. Way to get some people heated up …

    Saying Avery is on the way out …is just a guess

    and throwing fuel on the fire…

    Sather wants to see what Avery is worth as an FA

    I guess we’ll see what that price will be ..

    Hopefully Avery will take the Rangers offer after seeing if

    there are other offers out there..

  34. “As for Jagr,todays articles in the post and daily news confirm what I’ve been saying for years about Jagr.It is that he has more imput on the team than Renney.His type of player is the type that NEVER wins a championship(HE WAS A PLEB EARLY IN HIS CAREER).He bitches and moans about his linemates not being able to play “his” game.He complains about how the coaching staff wants to run the powerplay and ignores what the coaches want to do on the PP.He holds the puck along the side boards,passes it incesantly for 90 seconds with the rest of his czechmates,and than he takes a low percentage shot from a bad angle along the side boards.

    A break with Jagr must be made.This team needs to turn over leadrship to Gomez,Drury,and some of the younger players like Callahan and Staal/Girardi.Sather has to move away from the big name signings or it will paralize this franchise for years to come because of the salary cap.Brian Campbell is a nice player.He is however a complimentary player,not a franchise dman.Top pay him 7-8 million a year is absurd considering that you have in the system Sags and Del Zotto now who are the same type of player.This team needs to find a crease clearing dman,that’s the most glaring weakness on the team.Orpik will cost between 4-5 million,a sum much better spent.Their is even a cheaper alternative in Commodore and Kurt Sauer as well as Mike Sauer later in the season if he can recover from his injury.

    On a side note,I can’t believe that Sather is even considering Shanny for any other role than as an assistant coach or consulting type job.And as someone on here said at 3MILLION!!!!!!!!!PER.Thats just pain crazy.

    The bottom line is that in the course of building a team,you sometimes have to take one step back in order to take two or three steps forward.Doing what we’ve been doing is just stupid.We have been a mediocre team that is finishing in the middle of the pack and always drafting in the 17-21 range.That is unacceptable.We are not now nor have we been a Stanley cup contender and as an orginization have to take our lumps for one season or two in order to move forward.I am willing to be patient as a fan,is anyone else?” – czechthemout

    I agree 100%.

    Sather has all his UFA’s cooling their heels until July 1. Avery and his agent should realize that Avery is no exception. It’s all about how much all our UFAs want to remain in New York. It’s about giving Sather the opportunity to acquire the players necessary to get the team deeper into the playoffs next season.

    Sather has to address getting better defensemen. Sanguinetti is probably a year away and Del Zotto two years. I wouldn’t overpay for Campbell when Streit has the potential to bring the same thing at a lower ingoing cost.I just hope he doesn’t overpay for Orpik either.

    Patience is what everyone needs, players and fans alike. July 1 will surely be very entertaing this year.

  35. die hard fan on

    Message to Sather:
    Say goodbye to Jagr, Shanny , Straka , Avery , Malik , Backman , Mara , Prucha ,

    Sign Campbell , Malone , and Hossa

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