And if it’s true…

164

If it really is the Rangers’ intention to cut ties with all of their big free agents, you would have to think they have some sort of plan in place. Whether it’s going after A-listers like forward Jonathan Cheechoo or defenseman Brian Campbell, or whether it’s their plan to work around the edges and not make any major moves at all, the subtext is probably a team that wants to get younger, quicker, and frankly, more cohesive.

Like I said, I’m a Jaromir Jagr proponent, and not only because he leaves us media types endless material to scribble into our notebooks. There are still very few players whose presence you feel the moment they step on the ice. For most of last season, Jagr struggled to produce. But even in the darkest days of last season, he was that presence, and a dangerous one.

Still, a lot was made of how Jagr reinvented himself last season, and I think that’s only partially true. The reality is he is still very much an offensive-minded player who probably is an incongruous fit for Tom Renney’s five-in-the-picture system. And let’s face it: as much as I took a personal liking to him, and I always felt some of the criticism he received was either overblown or ill-informed, I don’t doubt he’s a handful to coach, or to have as a teammate.

The point is that you deal with those peripheral issues if either A) he’s locked into your roster, or B) you feel you can re-sign him to a reasonable amount. But if you can’t make the economics work and other teams can, then you start seeing the merits in the clean break.

And like I’ve said before, everything starts with Jagr. If you don’t have Jagr, you don’t keep Martin Straka, and suddenly even an inconsistent Michal Rozsival loses some of his luster (and speaking of which, one would hope Petr Prucha would crack the lineup in Prague if he is in fact the only remaining Czech on the Rangers roster).

And once you’ve started down the road of starting down a new path, you don’t see much point in keeping an aging Brendan Shanahan around either.

As for Sean Avery, both Jagr and Shanahan were the left wing’s checks-and-balance system. Avery could cut loose on occasion, but there was always the presence of the two veterans to keep things under control. I think Chris Drury is an invaluable player to the Rangers, and if he is indeed the team’s captain when the puck drops in Prague, the team will be in fine hands. But for some reason, I could see Avery testing Drury and Scott Gomez more than he would a couple of first ball Hall of Famers.

Granted, this is all speculative at this point, and frankly, I still think the best move is to bring back Jagr for at least one more season. The Rangers might think they’d be better served long term if they turn the page now. But in the new NHL, you can’t look beyond the season right in front of you. And I still think the best chance of winning now is with No. 68 on your side.

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164 Comments

  1. Youth is important, but tested New York veterans are important as well. Chris Drury is fine, although he’s in the running for the most boring interview ever, but is he really that much of a dominating force? Can any of these free agents be guarantees to succeed in New York? When did Jonathan Cheechoo become so amazing? Why do we have to start all over again — this just seems like bad management. But then, who ever heard of bad management in New York?

  2. Doodie Machetto on

    Repost:

    I hope that Malik was a foregone conclusion, and that’s why his name was left out of the report.

    I’m a little upset about Jagr, but cool with everyone else going away. I have long been an Avery detractor due to his off-ice behavior and salary demands. Avery is becoming an NHL pariah. It’ll be interesting to see who will want him considering all of his antics, and especially at what price, certainly not what he was trying to get from Slats. And if he signs with the Islanders, I would change the Potvin sucks chant to Avery sucks in a heartbeat. He would be the ultimate sellout. Actually, the Devs would make him the ultimate sellout, but the Isles would be pretty close. So would the Leafs. Man, I’m already feeling better about him leaving.

    Shanahan should retire. Straka could be useful on a lot of teams, but at a much lower salary than he received last year. Rozsival will find a new home pretty easily as well.

    As for pitching for Redden or Campbell, I can’t say I’m crazy about either. Both will be grossly overpaid, and Redden is already on a career decline. I think by disgarding Jagr et al they are basically saying that the youth of the team should take over, and part and parcel of that should be not signing vets to bloated contracts. Yes, we need a puckmoving defenseman, but why lock ourselves in with some monstrous contract, only to have the guy flop in NY, as so many of our big contracts usually do. If I had to pick one, I’d pick Redden, simply because he’ll probably be about 1-2 million cheaper, and has much more playoff experience than Campbell. Also, I disagree with this post and Larry’s report. I think Campbell is likely to return to San Jose.

    I think the Rangers should target some mid level UFAs, like Radim Vrbata before considering trades, as those costs us assets. My boy Malone seems destined to be out of the price range I’d pay for him.

    Oh, and as for Tucker, maybe, but only if he can be had on the REAL cheap, which, if he is bought out, he should accept since he’ll be getting paid by Toronto too. I’m talking, 1.2-1.5 million, tops. And for no more than 2 years. Basically, he can be a placeholder.

    Anyone know Cerepanov’s status with the new Russian league in place?

  3. “When did Jonathan Cheechoo become so amazing?”

    I don’t think it’s a matter of him, alone. But you’d have to think that his style and Gomer’s style would be like 2 pea’s in a pod.

    A fine assessment by Mr Weinman, but the thing that gets me, is that that post should never be written. If that much depends on 1 guy, you’ve built your team all wrong. And you should fix it asap before it gets worse.

  4. The fact is this: There is a 56.6m cap for next season and we have 24.5m in cap space…even more if Backman and Hollweg are waived.

    Campbell SUCKS, period. He’s so soft. Streit has that offensive-dman talent, but he’s also decent on the blueline.

    Redden SUCKS.

    Orpik will be overpaid.

    I guaran-f’n-tee you that Sather will sign two more ludicrous contracts and this team will go no-where yet again.

  5. Cheechoo is something of a Petr Prucha in peetering offensive production, but he does have a 56 goal season under his belt KC!

    KC, this team was rebuilding the second the Rangers didn’t sign a prolific winger and 2 solid defensman last off-season. With those 3 pieces, plus Nylander (sans-Drury), the Rangers may have ousted the Penguins, especially given that Jagr’s performance would probably have been better as well. Alot of what if’s, but that’s in the past and these are the pieces we have. Time to rebuild. Perhaps 1st round exits for a couple years before making a REAL run for it.

    Sam W., “he would a couple of first ball Hall of Famers.” Would this be a “grand ball” with pumpkins and glass slippers? =-)

  6. In my mind avery is a must to sign. He does everything and is not afraid to mix it up. Thats what the rangers lacked throughout the whole team last year. HE is a great guy and needs to be back.

    As for all these trades, I just want to know who your giving up for these top forwards and defensemen without compramising your future.

    I guess all we can do is sit back and wait and see.

  7. Doodie, I’ve never posted a disagreement with your assessments before but hating Avery for leaving the Rangers for more money is a near-sighted approach to what guys do FOR A LIVING! It is a game, but these guys are doing this for themselves, their families, their pensions, all of it – and if you hate Avery for leaving a team for more money then you are going to end up hating about 60+ percent of the NHL for the same reason.

  8. Does anyone else truly fear that any of Dubinsky, Staal, Sanguinetti, or Cherepanov might be traded to move up in this draft?

  9. I am a huge Sather fan right now. Let them *all* walk baby. I will absolutely cream myself if it comes true.

    I wouldn’t worry about Avery either. He seems ineffective against his former teams. I kinda hope he does sign with the Isles if not with us, so we’ll still get to hear about his antics. Rocha nailed it, he’s just another piece, not the “lynchpin” so many want to say he is.

  10. Beer Me nails it. When you have so much revolving around such an extremely “iffy” player in Jagr… something is wrong. Now, more than ever, as highlighted by Sam’s post…is the time to let Jagr walk.

    RE: Cheechoo

    My impression of Jonathan was that he is a great garbage goal guy, not a “speedy sniper wing”…. am I wrong? I honestly have no idea, I’ve seen him play maybe thrice. If that be the case though, I’d imagine him on Drury’s wing anyway, rather than Scottie’s…

    I’ve got a giant rod with all this “cleaning house” talk… GIANT.

  11. About avery, He didn’t mean he is a great guy like off the ice, I meant he is a good teammate and will stick up for his team at any point in the game.

    IF we let him go we just need someone that plays a physical game and also scores goal. We should create a grind it out physical but scoring line. Pair that with a top line that main job is scoring with a speed line and the 4th line that goes out and creates energy by throwing the body we should be good.

    Who will be on the those lines is the million dollar question.

    As for trading Dubinsky, Staal, Sanguinetti, or Cherepanov in the draft I don’t think so. They really should all be untouchable. In two years you could have what the pens had this year a good crop of young players. Mix in gomez and duruy with some role players you have a winning team.

    This year is definitly the make or break year. These signings will either propel us to the next level or set us back two or three years. It is rare you have this many players up for free agency.

  12. _There are still very few players whose presence you feel the moment they step on the ice. For most of last season, Jagr struggled to produce. But even in the darkest days of last season, he was that presence, and a dangerous one._

    Sam, you call it “presence”, but at this point, I call it “hype”.

  13. Pavel,
    I highly doubt it.

    I’m not sure why so many people are freaking out over this team not re-signing these guys. Haven’t most of us been predicting a rebuilding period? Straka was a foregone conclusion to go back to the C.R. Jagr has been all but wearing shirts that say “I’m not playing in NY anymore.” Rozsival’s a bum.

    Avery, however, is one guy I think the team needs to sign. He makes the games interesting. He brings an added dimension and attitude as well. Perhaps, Jagr-less, the team won’t be so panzified and won’t need that Avery personality. However, the Jagr-Straka and even Nylander versions of the Rangers needed one guy to go into games against opponenets and say “I’m the sh!t and I’m gonna show you with my fists and on the scoreboard.”

    The Rangers record with Avery speaks for itself. He didn’t carry them through the second round, but he was a huge part of getting them to the playoffs past 2 years and arguably the most important player the Rangers had winning the first round series’ in ’07 and again in ’08.

  14. My only concern is Jagr’s replacement. He is one of the only players in the world who can be constantly double and triple teamed, and still manage to put up points.

    Opposing teams match against Jagr because he’s a threat…a world-class threat.

    Unless there’s a Kovalchuk or Ovechkin coming to NY, Jagr’s presence will be missed IMMENSELY.

    With that being said, I think Avery is great, but if he’s going to cripple the cap, then no. He’s too risky. He missed 1/3 of last season due to injuries, but then showed up in another round 1, but disappeared in another round 2. Is that worth 4m?

  15. The Rangers record with Avery speaks for itself. He didn’t carry them through the second round, but he was a huge part of getting them to the playoffs past 2 years and arguably the most important player the Rangers had winning the first round series’ in ‘07 and again in ‘08.

    ……….

    very true point

  16. “Unless there’s a Kovalchuk or Ovechkin coming to NY, Jagr’s presence will be missed IMMENSELY.”

    That is exactly what I am worried about. If you don’t sign him, and don’t make a trade for a top goal scorer, this will be a rebuilding year unless a couple of guys come out of the wood work and start making up for the production.

    The only ones I would resign are Jagar(maybe) Avery and maybe mara. Its time to start with the youth. Make a trade or make a move in free agency that gets us younger.

  17. The concensus seems to be: let everyone walk except for Avery. But it will be Avery, of all of those guys to be the most overpaid for his production. Sure, if you pay Jags $7+mil, you’re probably overpaying. But the guys got a coupld of rings, and a butt-load of trophies. HE has the potential to pull out one last ‘special’ season. But maybe that was 2 years ago. With Avery, the guy hasn’t put up sh!t since he’s been in the league. Apparently Hollweg is the guy that loosens everyone up in the lockeroom, but you don’t see him crying for more $ b/c of his intangibles. Avery would be a huge mistake to pay even close to $4mil. That’s $1.5m more than he’s worth.

  18. “worth”; based on production.

    Throwing “yo-mama” insults on the ice doesn’t equate to millions of dollars. That’s dillusional.

  19. With that being said, I think Avery is great, but if he’s going to cripple the cap, then no. He’s too risky. He missed 1/3 of last season due to injuries, but then showed up in another round 1, but disappeared in another round 2. Is that worth 4m?
    ……….

    Considering that the Rangers paid Shanahan $5.3 million, Rozsival $2.8 (??) million, Malik $3.0 million, Straka $4.0 million, and Drury $7.3 million.

    That’s a combined $21.5 million for guys *WHO DID NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!* in the first round OR in the second round!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    That Avery money (granted, $3.5million per year or less), doesn’t look like it’s so poorly spent.

  20. Pavel, Kurt, Beer;
    You all talk about resigning Jagr because:
    1) without him (or 8, or Kovalchuk) it’s a rebuilding year
    2) Jagr might have one more “special” season left
    3) without Jagr we are rebuilding.

    So I ask this, if the Rangers re-sign Jagr…what do you think they’ll do?
    They’re not winning the cup! No chance in hell. The won’t be able to beat 3 teams in the West and another 2 in the East – even if the stars aligned and the team faced no major injuries.
    THUS, what’s the point of signing Jagr anyway? He’s not bringing a cup back to NY, period! There’s just not enough money to buy the necessary components, there’s not many guys available anyway, and there’s not enough pieces currently in this puzzle either at home or on the farm. Sorry.

  21. Doodie Machetto on

    “Doodie, I’ve never posted a disagreement with your assessments before but hating Avery for leaving the Rangers for more money is a near-sighted approach to what guys do FOR A LIVING! It is a game, but these guys are doing this for themselves, their families, their pensions, all of it – and if you hate Avery for leaving a team for more money then you are going to end up hating about 60+ percent of the NHL for the same reason.”

    Truefans, it’s not that I have a problem with the fact that he wants more money than he is being offered. That’s the nature of the business. It’s that he so grossly overvalues himself that bothers me. He wants 4 million plus. Shanny got 4 million in his first year here, coming off of a 40 goal season. Demands like that show he puts himself above the team because it destroys our salary structure. He should damn well know he isn’t worth that much. It’s an arrogant demand, coming from an arrogant player. His media embargos? His trash talking? The guy isn’t a team player and so I don’t want him on my team.

  22. This is really a make or break year with all these options. I really wouldn’t resign that many people bercause they obviously don’t have what it takes to take us to the cup. We have had two opportunites and they haven’t done it. So its time to move on and spend the money on someone different.

    i like the Jonathan Cheechoo thing. Will he be the problem solver, obviously not but could be a piece to the puzzle. With this crop of free agents and not alot out there, were going to have to make some sort of trade at some point. But I would not give up chev or sags for anyone. Imagine sags and staal together. There is your top defense pair. If sags plays on the opposite side. (not sure on that)

  23. true – let the record state that I’ve wanted jagr dealt since nov/dec of ’07. I was using him as a balancing factor for signing avery for too much. screw ‘the captain’.

  24. If he’s not going to sign the Czech retirement club, he should at least trade away the rights to our UFAs and get something out of it.

  25. Sam, it’s time to move on, let Jagr go.
    He’ll never sign a 1 year deal….give Drury the “C”.

    Big signing has to be for a “D” man first.
    I look forward to seeing Dawes, Dubinsky and others continue to develop.

  26. Kind of scary that we’re potentially losing so many veterans. I know that most fans will be happy to see Malik, Rozcival, Straka and Shanahan go and they have more mixed feelings on Jagr and Avery.

    That said, that is a lot of roster spots to potentially have to fill. There’s 29 other teams that will be chasing the same impact free agents, so there’s no guarantee we come out of this summer with a markedly better team.

    I like the idea of giving younger guys more ice time but I’m not convinced anyone other than Staal or maybe Dubinsky has the potential to be a stud at the NHL level. I think 2008-2009 could be pretty painful if we only add one or maybe two impacts veterans and then go with homegrown players.

  27. True Fans Bleed RW&B

    What you said is true but Jagar gives you a proven piece. Has the rings, has the goals. I understand what your saying though, its a good point. He can’t be a go to guy and if we do resign him he has got to take a pay cut. But you have to have someone on your team that says to the other team, ok we really need to pay attention to him, and when that happens you need other guys to step up and get it done and that is what the rangers have been lacking. I am saying if you take that out of the equation you dont have that player and then the attention of the team is toward the other guys.

    To me there should be no reason why this should be a rebuilding year though. you have enough options to sign or make a move with without rebuilding.

  28. first and foremost im glad that shanny, rozi and straka won’t be back.
    but im just curious as to how anyone thinks that jagr and avery leaving is going to make this team better? who’s going to replace them? we couldnt score goals to save our lives last year and now jagr is gone? and as far as avery is concerned, i hate to beat a dead horse but man, our record with him in the line up proves his worth.

    i’m pretty fucking confused with what’s going on. maybe the plan really is to finish last and grab tavares, if its not, i need some explanation how were going to replace a top line wing and avery’s bad mouth not to mention one of our top 2 dmen.

    smooth moves slats. avery is going to be a fucking islander.

  29. Doodie Machetto on

    I hate the Cheechoo thing. He’s struggled the past two seasons with Joe Thornton; Scott Gomez isn’t gonna change that.

    The worst part is we would have to give them our assets for him. F that.

    I think we should just pick up some placeholders and play some kids. My idea for placeholder wingers: Radim Vrbata, Niklas Hagman, Pavol Demitra, Michael Ryder. They can be had cheaply enough or on short enough term to make them worthwhile to hold places while our kids get more experienced and can carry the team. If Hagman, Vrbata, or Ryder click, we can bring them back for a longer term.

    I’m not suggesting we get all of them, maybe just one or two. I also haven’t abandoned my Ryan Malone desires, but he seems to be going for more than I wanted (6 years, 24 million was what I wanted, but he seems more likely for 5 years 25 million).

  30. I think 2008-2009 could be pretty painful if we only add one or maybe two impacts veterans and then go with homegrown players.

    ……..

    Growning pains never hurt anyone.

    Making the playoffs doesn’t mean you were ever really in contention for the Cup.

    With the right rebuilding moves now, this team should be ready for a True Blue shot by Drury’s contract year. How much $ is Cheech’s contract? I think it’s worth it to hold out for Ilya. That guy is hardcore.

  31. CraigWeather on

    True Fans Bleed RW& B,

    Uhhh…. Am I missing something here? 3 teams in the west and 2 in the east? Pretty certain it’s 3 teams in the east and 1 in the west.

    For those who want Jagr back…. look, he’ll be tough to replace but truth be told, he’s holding us back. Too much revolves around him… and lets face it, Gomer & Dru don’t cater to his style. That’s the issue at hand! There’s too much catering to a man who had a VERY illustrious career and a GREAT run on broadway. That time has passed… and he doesn’t have enough in the tank to sustain the effort he put up during the playoffs. What more proof do you need? The guy flat out said it himself.

    -Good riddance to Rozi.

    -Straka brings so much effort to the ice game in and game out, but he just can’t finish anymore. I’ll be sad to see him go, but it’s a necessity at this point.

    -And finally, Avery. Avery Avery Avery…. What to do, what to do… Look, I’m torn when it comes to his return or departure. Fact is, he’s not worth more than 3 million a season. We all know this despite the fire and desire he brings on a continual basis. He’ll be near impossible to replace for the niche he fills. Darcy Tucker is most certainly a step in the wrong direction. We get older… and truth be told, the guy’s a poor man’s version of Avery. Here’s hoping Avery’s willing to curb the ego for what he’s truly worth and stays. If not…. well, thanks for the memories and we’ll miss ya.

  32. Doodie Machetto on

    shesends, you’re being shortsighted. the team wasnt going anywhere WITH Jagr and Avery. Better to jettison them and look to the future.

    And if Avery signs with the Islanders, he’ll be a sellout.

  33. Doodie Machetto on

    Cheechoo is 3 million cap hit. I’d say he’s worth 2 million, maybe another 500k for his name (AWESOME), but not 3 million.

  34. oh yea doodie. I forgot about Ryder. I’d love to see him on Drury’s wing. of course for the right price.

    shesends – one of the reasons we COULD score more goals without jags is that everyone will stop differing to him when they cross the blueline. The pp will be more successful without his 2 f’n cents also.

  35. Doodie, I agree with the first part. Agree to disagree on the latter.

    FairWeather, I’m not sure what you mean…? I only see one clear team from the East that the Rangers need to PLAN to beat. It’s such a mediocre conference and only Pittsburgh stood out this year, although I expect Ottawa to be better (especially if they get a no-nonsense goalie and re-sign Hossa, the team that Hossa says he wants to play on).

    In the West…ummm, Detroit, Dallas, and San Jose! They’ll beat the Rangers any day bro. Maybe even Anaheim too! (pending Neidermayer and Schneider contract negotiations)

  36. Cheechoo had major surgeries last year, and wasn’t even on Thornton’s line most of the season. He was demoted to third line. He went on a hot streak when he started feeling better.

    Cheechoo and Gomez would be amazing!

  37. JD sent a 4th rnd pick to Nash for Chris Mason. And Nash resigned ellis. good trade for JD.

    and so it begins….

  38. Doodie, just want to point out that Cheechoo had scored 56 goals on a $3million contract. I can’t say why his production has dropped the last two years (37 goals and then I think 23 goals).

    However, and I know i’m going to get bashed for this, but Cheechoo has scored more goals in 2 of his last 3 seasons than Drury and Gomez netted, combined! $3.0 million vs. $14.4million. Hmm…..

  39. Doodie Machetto on

    That was a HUGE trade for JD. What a Coup! We got Backman for a third rounder at the deadline!! AWFUL.

  40. sh!t, even the 23 goals @ $3mil is better than Avery having NEVER put up even 20 goals asking for $4mil+. Just talking about it makes me hope he DOES sign with NYI.

  41. I don’t really understand how anyone thinks we’re going to be a better team next year. Regardless of what you think of Jagr’s cost, he did in fact put up points and in my opinion having Avery in the line up was a positive contributor as well. Those are two big holes to fill.

    A whole quarter of our team might be new to NY next year and there will be high expectations right off the bat. Look what happened with Gomez and Drury, it took them a while to adjust and get in a groove.

  42. Cheechoo is 3 million cap hit. I’d say he’s worth 2 million, maybe another 500k for his name (AWESOME), but not 3 million.

    …….

    Cheechoo only $3M hit? Totally worth the risk, IMO. Not even to be the Gomez wing either. I’d say put him with Drury. I thought Cheechoo would be at least $5M. I would trade some chumps for him.

  43. “They’ll beat the Rangers any day bro. ”

    Except last season.
    ………..

    Dallas and Anaheim both beat the Rangers. The one game you’re referring to, I think, was the Rangers beating San Jose. However, that came on a night Lundqvist saved 29 of 30 shots and in the middle of a streak where SJ lost 5 straight including games to Edmonton, Islanders, and the Devils.

    The Rangers weren’t beating Detroit either, no matter how much you wished they would.

  44. Why does everyone look at goals versus contract? Its stupid, you actually have to have other skills on your team to play successful hockey.

    Gomez might not score as many goals as other players but there’s probably only a handful that can go north to south carrying the puck like he can.

  45. Doodie Machetto on

    uhh… First off, Drury had 37 two years ago, equal to cheechoo’s total, and last year, Drury had 25 to Cheechoo’s 23. Second, the year Cheechoo had 56, Gomez and Drury combined for 66, so your statement is entirely false.

    Second, Gomez is a set up man, and wouldn’t expect him to score more than a guy who is supposed to score a lot of goals.

    Third, Cheechoo had Joe Thornton, the best passer in the game.

    Fourth, Cheechoo’s game is on the decline. 56, 37, 23? Yeah, THAT’s the guy that we need.

  46. “I don’t really understand how anyone thinks we’re going to be a better team next year.”

    I don’t think it’s a matter of “better next year”. it’s a matter of “why would it work next year if it didn’t this year”. AND…it’s just time to move on.

  47. Doodie Machetto on

    Truefans, I was talking about San Jose, and how is it bad if Lundqvist stopped 29 of 30? That shows that the Sharks couldn’t score. Nabokov stopped 30 of 32. Whats your point? Rangers won, Sharks lost. So not ANY day, eh bro?

  48. Doodie, you’re right. I forgot Gomez brok out of his 13-15 goal seasons and had a 33 goal’r. However, you’re still trying to say TWO guys who combined for:
    63, 50, and 31 vs.
    56, 37, 23 from one guy (in the same seasons) who makes $11 million less!!!!

    Ummmm….yea. Haha.

  49. CraigWeather on

    True Fans,

    I thought you were referring to the playoff setup (quarters, semi, conf finals, cup). And for the record if I was a “fair weather” fan I’m pretty certain I wouldn’t be posting here while in the midst of a newscast (my job)/during the offseason.

  50. Doodie, the playoffs are a 7 game series. Catching San Jose on one off night when they’re in a slump doesn’t mean anything.

    In 7 games, the Rangers won’t beat Detroit, Dallas, or San Jose. I would think Anaheim and maybe even Calgary would be a handful too.

    There are dreamers who think the Rangers shouuld sign Jagr for one season and make a run for the cup! It ain’t going to happen, and the main reason is because (even if they did beat the entire East) they will NEVER win 4 games against a Western team. Heck, what was their record against the West last year…? 1-11-1? Something like that! And that includes playing Phx, Edm, and LA i’m prett sure.

  51. Doodie Machetto on

    Cheers Beer, it isn’t about being better next yer, it’s about taking the team in a new direction because the old one wasn’t going to work.

    If you think that there is any set of circumstances this year that would have the Rangers winning the cup this upcoming season, you’re wrong. They have too many holes, no matter who they brought back, let go, or bring in, unless there was no salary cap. I mean think about it, we need a top scoring winger, a top puck moving defenseman, a top physical blueliner, and maybe a depth scorer. How much additional cap space is that, 20 million? and then we would have to round out the rest of the team. It ain’t happening!

  52. If you think that there is any set of circumstances this year that would have the Rangers winning the cup this upcoming season, you’re wrong.
    ……….

    But they beat San Jose 3-1!

    (sarcasm)

  53. doodie – I wouldn’t say there’s NO chance. Before I say this, I’ll say that all of us would have felt the same. Ok, let’s not forget that a good portion of the season we had ‘average at-best’ goaltending while Hank’s mind was on his father. At that point of the season, Ott had leveled off, crosby was hurt, NJD hadn’t started their ‘drive’ yet, and the conference was there for the taking. Climbing to the top is tremendous momentum going down the stretch. Things could’ve been different if Hank was on his A-game. He wasn’t.

    If he can put up his first 100% complete (consistent) season, things could take a turn for the better. There were a lot of reasons our season ended when it did. Not just the UFA’s playing like garbage.

  54. I hope Avery walks — I don’t even dislike him — just so incredibly tired of hearing his name. This is hockey, not a fashion show.

    That said… I too, am a bit excited about the prospect of ‘clearing house’ — even we if SUCK next season.

    I thing we can all agree the games can’t get much more boring.

  55. Doodie Machetto on

    True, look just at Drury’s numbers then. 30, 37, 25. Not to mention the much more complete game that Drury has (leadership, a winning culture, penalty killing, faceoffs, crunchtime scoring)

    How about points for Gomez? As I said, Gomez is a setup man, not a finsher. Cheechoo: 93, 69, *37* . Gomez: 84, 60, 70. Again, not to mention the more complete game (puck carrying, faceoffs, penalty killing, passing ability, leadership, a winning culture). Cheechoo is a one dimensional player, and teams have figured out how to shut him down. If Gomez or Drury don’t score, they have more to their games.

    Oh, and don’t forget the playoffs, where Drury and Gomez are infinitely more valuable.

    We’ll have to agree to disagree again. Cheechoo has had nothing but goals expected of him when being fed passes from the best passer in the game. Even with that, he couldn’t really produce last season. Remember where he was before Joe Thornton? Nowhere. Even in the middle of his 56 goal season, he had basically done nothing until he and Thornton clicked.

    I don’t want to trade our assets for him. Period.

  56. You’ll get no argument out of me. I wanted those guys traded near the trading deadline, let them go and make this team Drury’s and Gomez’s team and get younger. The new NHL is about the young talent, not the old now and once talented years ago.

  57. Beer,

    Hanks SV% was in the .920’s for the first 33 games of the season…then it plummeted to .906 and he built it backup to .912 by seasons end.

    Hank has had these season streaks of 20-30 games great, 20-30 games mediocre. I don’t know why, but a SV% of .910 or better (as you know) is solid. Part of that was the collapse of the defense, while they didn’t let up lots of chances, the ones they did allow were generally HIGH quality. But still, Lundqvist wasn’t making saves he had at the start of the year (or the end of last year).

    Will we ever see Lundqvist put up 65-70 games of 100%, .925 SV% hockey? Maybe…? But he’s not shown that he has the body or mind to do it yet. However, consecutive seasons of .922, .917, and .912 ain’t bad either.

  58. “ain’t bad” doesn’t win cups though. I’m sure he’s capable of winning the Jennings. Probably multiple times over the next 12 or so years. But if you want to win, you need to be stellar. You have to put your team in a position to win EVERY single night. Inconsistant ‘tending is a nightmare. And we’ve gotten that for 3 years. He’s 10x better than the majority of the goalies out there, but there’s more. That’s all I’m really saying. And it’ll take that ‘more’ to cover up for the lackluster D. And the first 3 years of your career being nominated for the Vezina “ain’t bad” either. But it’s not the same as winning it.

  59. And if that M F’er doesn’t stay in the goddam crease, I’m going to take his leg pad and shove it up his &*#$^*@% @$$

  60. look just at Drury’s numbers then. 30, 37, 25. Not to mention the much more complete game that Drury has
    *(leadership, a winning culture, penalty killing, faceoffs, crunchtime scoring)*
    ……….

    SHOW ME THIS! SHOW ME!
    “A winning culture?” (do other guys bring losing cultures?)
    “penalty killing?” (does blair betts deserve between $3.0-$7.5million?)
    “faceoffs?” (this applies to half the NHL centers)
    “crunchtime scoring” (SHOW ME THIS! SHOW ME!)
    In the playoffs this year, where was Drury?! WHERE?!

    This Drury nonsense has got to stop. He’s Sather’s problem, he signed for alot of money and now we have to deal with building around him. But don’t lie to me or yourself.

    BTW: Cheechoo, before Thornton, had a 28 goal season. That was a his sophomore year! One of the other posters here also said he was demoted to the third line. Fact remains he didn’t play a full season and he averaged 16 minutes of ice time (fair less than gomez or Drury). However, if the Rangers wanted to trade Prucha OR (not both) another 2nd/3rd line winger for Cheechoo then I’d do it. $3.0 million for a guy who should score 30 goals…why not?

  61. Does anyone else understand why Pitt would be more concerned signing Hossa than extending Malkin? It seems bizzare to me.

  62. Avery – 3mil per two year deal is THE MOST he’s worth
    IF he says no, fuck him and he’s lying that he bleeds red and Blue

    JAgr – lower price, 1-2 year deal, semi-reduced role
    Fact is, without him, were not getting anyone whose putting up 71 points (and that is his WORST year) So discoutned he’s worht it, let Dury and Gomez lead with him still putting up points, then we wont need to go out and spend like crazy on someone else. If not, bye bye Jags you were great

    Straka, Shanny, Rosi, Malik – Shanny and Straka were great -bye bye
    Hollweg, BAckman – Just go Bye Bye

    Valli, Mara – Re sign -Valli slighlty more, Mara less. if not bye bye

    HArtford Boys – Korpi, Byers, and whoever else comes to campe who may make it.

    The rest is all specualtion and we’ll jsut have to wait to see what magical moves Sather is willing to make

    Roster will be:
    JAgr – ?
    Avery – ?
    Gomer
    Drury
    Dawes
    Cally
    Dubi
    Staal
    Toots
    Girardi
    Hank
    Valli
    MAra
    Orr
    Betts
    Sjoestrom
    Prucha

    5 spots to fill, with hopefully 2 from Hartford.

    I can wait to know who the hell is on our team already!!!

  63. *Being demoted to the third line and injured was this year.*

    I agree you can’t compare Gomez and Drury with Cheechoo, but if a trade presented itself straight-up for one of our middle-line wingers, you woulnd’t do it?

    BTW: I’m wondering how much you’ve actually watched Cheechoo that you have this clear bias against him…perhaps you live in Cali and see him regularly?

  64. This has got to be the most bi-polar off season ever. Sather doesn’t know whether he (and his team) are coming or going.

    Let me get this straight… our choices are…

    Let Avery, Jagr, Straka, Rosi, and Shanny walk… fill from within.

    Let the same walk and chase overpriced, over the hill free agents.

    Keep the above mentioned names and hope for a different outcome than last season.

    WTF!!!???

    Are these the only choices? Christ! It’s like a presidential election… the lesser of evils but they’re all just as evil as the next!!!

    There can’t really be talk of losing Sags or Dubi to trade up either… can there?

    Why does it feel like the old Rangers theories are back at it?

  65. Beer, were you the person who posted the link to a Pitts Times article which said the Pens are interested in dumping Malkin? If not, these were the reasons that I read for Malkin possibly leaving in 1-3 years (in addition to the reported $15million offer from Russia)…
    1) he’s not learning English fast enough
    2) only plays well when Crosby’s hurt
    3) Poor finish in playoffs, and…
    4) made a demand to have Gonchar extended in order for him to stay

    Perhaps Crosby doesn’t like Malkin too…? Remember, they’re both naturally centers, and in so doing, resigning Malkin doesn’t nearly help Crosby as much as signing Hossa.

  66. So….with all this talk about personnell we seem to have stopped talking about Professor Renny;’s system…ya know “act responsible in your own end and make appropriate decisons in the nuetral zone blah blah..”

    Were we 25th in the league in scoring because all these offensive minded guys got old or melted down together? Some bizarre coincidence? or was it an un-inspired, negative approach to the game handed down from the coaches; these 1990’s Trap-graduates??

    If it was the coaching is it going to change? will Renney evolve? If he doesn’t you can add all the offensive talent you want and they’ll still be playing for ties from late in the second period on…we played over 20 tie games last year!!!

  67. I don’t remember if I posted it, possibly. I really don’t buy anything I read though. Just like ‘ol Brooksy’s article today.

    I thought the same thing about Crosby not ‘liking’ him too though. But with the amount of talent Malkin has (more than Hossa I believe), how could you not find a way to make it work? right?

    riche’ – I don’t see them moving dubi. Potentially Bobby S. though. The dmen that are available in the top 5 are straight-up nasty, and most NHL ready. Luke Schenn would be my pick if I had #5 or #6 overall. The guy’s Pheneuf 2.0

  68. dammit kaspar! you had to bring that up right?

    It will only be different with a different roster. yet another reason to ditch #68 & co.

  69. Guys,

    Think about what kind of team it takes to win the Cup. Unfortunately, I don’t see Jagr as a “win-at-all-costs, do-whatever-it-takes,” kind of guy. He is a powerhouse power forward, but he is not a bruiser. I am not saying I want him to play that role. What I am saying is that when your captain is not willing to mix it up, grind it out, and pound people and lead by example, the whole team’s attitude suffers.

    Basically I am saying that with Jagr we are too Euro. Malik, Rozy, Straka, Tyutin, etc etc. You get my point.

    The mgmt needs to decide what kind of a team they want to build. It’s almost as if they sign Jagr and Avery, they are sending further mixed signals. Because if Straka and Rosy get resigned AND Avery does, this team does nothing spectacular next year as they have no real identity, IMHO.

    I don’t have the answer. But I know that a tougher, ballsy team with attitude goes further in the playoffs than a flashy offensive team. Detroit this year was an anomaly because their Swede contingency was a bunch of animals. BTW, I find Swedes tougher in general than Euro players.

    Just a thought….

  70. Doodie Machetto on

    True Fans, my brother is a Sharks fan. I’ve seen a lot of him. He’s very one dimensional, and teams have figured him out, and that’s why his numbers have been dropping. There is a reason he was demoted and it wasn’t because he was injured. It just wasn’t working with Thornton. If you can’t make it work with him… I don’t know who you could work with.

    Beer, there are a few concerns as to why Pittsburgh is more concerned with Hossa than Malkin.

    1) Crosby needs a wing, and it is a disservice not to give him an elite one.

    2) Hossa will be cheaper to retain than Malkin. Malkin is expected to pot the maximum contract when he needs to be resigned. Hossa has said he would take a discount for a true contender. That extra 3-4 million is a lot of cap space, and basically is the difference between keeping Brooks Orpik and Jordan Staal, or not keeping them.

    3) How long will Malkin be happy playing second fiddle to Crosby? The guy is the number 1 center on every team but 3 or 4, and one of them happens to be Pittsburgh (Detroit, Tampa, and SJ are the other 3). By next year, I’d cross San Jose off that list, and would cross off Detroit if Datsyuk and Zetterberg didn’t have so much chemistry.

  71. “But I know that a tougher, ballsy team with attitude goes further in the playoffs than a flashy offensive team.”

    (ahem, ahem) Ryan Malone.

  72. True:

    I like Cheechoo a lot, and wish Sather would do just about anything to get him here. I was just saying that because he was playing hurt this year, he wasn’t used much on the top lines. Once he started feeling better, he got more minutes. He’s a solid sniper who actually shoots the puck. He’s the guy Gomez NEEDS.

  73. Doodie Machetto on

    Newman, too Euro… like Detroit? How did they do again this season? I forgot. It’s not about their backgrounds. Jeez, I thought this would be dead already.

    PS, I don’t know what playoffs you were watching, but Jagr was our best skater in the playoffs, bar none.

  74. I know in PA I could get killed for saying this. But I think that Malkin will produce more over his career than Crosby will. Crosby’s size is unbalanced with his tenacity. Now for some; Theo Fleury, St Louis, etc. that may not have been a huge issue. But their talent is nowhere near that of Crosby. Cindy needs to play like the little b!tch he is and he’ll have a room full of Art Ross trophies. Malkin is a F’n giant built like a brick crap-house.

    just my opinion…wtf do I know.

  75. Beer me says:
    “It will only be different with a different roster. yet another reason to ditch #68 & co.’

    I hope so comrade…I know all good teams play a system but it seems the ones that flourish have some kind of positive uptempo aspect to them….maybe its the players…I just keep noticing that in interviews renney seems in control and confident but in a game when the camera shows Renney he seems overmatched and befuddled…maybe its just me..

    we’ll see

    I just keep thinking musically just because the Beatles system was to write their own songs that didnt mean “anyone” can do it or do it well. Maybe Detroits the Beatles, the Dev’s were the Rolling Stones and we are (gulp!) Herman’s Hermits

  76. Doodie Machetto on

    Newman, I didn’t read the end of your post. Let me adjust mine:

    So now we make an exception for Swedes? They are European, and Detroit’s game was pure puck possession, just like the Rangers a couple of years ago. Thing is, they had a full team; we only had one line.

    Meanwhile, you forget the Nancy boy North American teams (yup, NJ was really an intimidating physical force!). It’s a sign of true ignorance when you judge people on where they’re from. Truly assinine.

  77. Beer, Malone’s going to be way over-paid and he’s only a glorified Sean Avery. I’m not even going to waste my time on his stats but having sub-30 goals on lines with Crosby or Malkin and those guys plus Sykora, Gonchar and some of the year with Hossa on the PP and that’s not saying too much.

    Newman, your comment is welcomed. I do agree. However, it is peculiar that we share that general sentiment and Lidstrom captain’d this year’s cup team. Granted, they did have Franzen, Stuart, Holmstrom, Lebda and even Datsuk who were all throwing big hits and defending Zetterberg every other shift that the Penguins took unpenalized liberties.

  78. The NJD of the late 90′ early 00’s were the most boring brand of hockey known to man. But, HIGHLY competitive. Playing a system only works if EVERY player plays it. When one guy and his ‘boys’ don’t buy into it, it won’t work.

  79. Prospect for prospect trades are dangerous in that you don’t know A) what you’re getting… but more importantly B) what you’re giving up.

    Trade up with Sags and hope for the best? OK. I’ll buy that. But just because you do it doesn’t mean that it’ll work… or that 3 years from now you won’t be kicking yourself for having done it.

    Stepping up your game from one level to the next is NEVER something that anyone can forsee. Sometimes it looks like a lock and it is… and sometimes it’s not even close.

    I’ll just say that I’d rather go that route, however, than go after Redden or (GOD FORBID) Campbell. To me that’s a step in the wrong (read early 2000’s Rangers) direction.

    Can Sather just look at the FA market and say “Nope… the solid D-man we need just isn’t out there… I’ll pass”. Or is it just too much like a kid in a candy store with money in hand?

  80. I don’t care who the Rangers roll next year as long as they are “more cohesive” on the ice. One team, one style. Not some guys skate, others float. What did Babcock say about the Wings: “there best players are the best workers”, or something like that? That shouldn’t be an observation but a prerequisite on the Rangers.

    Oh wait…there’s one guy, and one guy only, whose employment next season has had me on tenterhooks all spring. Please Glen, please, do not resign Brendan Shanahan. Slow, doesn’t hit, loses battles for the puck along the boards because he doesn’t do gritty anymore, will never fight again, always on the PP shoots high because he’s more likely to score but then there’s never any rebounds only he looks like he doesn’t care about that. And, he only skates hard during the shootouts.

    Who cares if he is a likeable guy. He should retire and do TV. Like between the benches work.

  81. For the record I’d rather have Malkin as well. He may not have the marketability but I prefer his style to Crosby’s.

  82. I know full-well that malone will be overpaid. I’d rather overpay him than avery though.

    I just really want to see some F’n size up front. Cally loves to hit, but he looks like a midget. Hollweg likes to hit, but he’s a f’n clown. Dubi likes to hit, but he’s more valuable than throwing his body around wrecklessly. Avery…may not be a ranger next season anyway. Orr has his role, and plays it to a T, and he’s too slow to keep up and hit people at the same time. So where’s our size? Where’s our intimidation? It sure as hell isn’t on the back end. Unless you trade up for Schenn tonight.

  83. Doodie Machetto on

    And Newman, what about Dallas? They had a lot of Finnish players, and they were a great, physical team that worked hard also, and I think would have won the Cup if Detroit wasn’t so good. Shall we make an exception for Finns too?

    Most of Pittsburgh’s top players were European too. Hossa, Malkin, Sykora, Gonchar, that’s 4 out of their top 7 point getters in the playoffs, half of their top goalscorers in the playoffs (Sykora is in a 4 way tie for 3rd). Malkin and Hossa had by far the most goals.

    So in other words, aside from Sidney Crosby and Ryan Malone, all of the top players that made it to the Finals were European.

    But no, you’re right. Europeans aren’t any good. My bad.

  84. I’ll kill myself if the Rangers try to replcae Jagr & Avery with Cheechoo & Tucker.

  85. Hey Jeff L.

    Don’t do it!
    If they trade Avery and Jags for Cheechoo and Tucker and you feel very depressed dial this number

    1-800-JOEKOCUR

    He will tell you how he single handedly won 1994 stanley cup with MC Hammer style moves

  86. Doodie Machetto on

    I’d rather have Crosby than Malkin so all of the calls would go my way. Duh.

    Malone will be grossly overpaid, yes. I think he is worth about 3.5 right now, but his value could increase to 5, so I would take him at 4. But he will certainly get 5 on the open market, so I’m not exactly about to commit longterm for that much.

    As for his numbers with his linemates, I wouldn’t be signing him just for his numbers. I’d be signing him for his size. He’s a big boy, and in Pittsburgh, that wasn’t so necessary when your center was Malkin (he didn’t play often with Crosby), because it was just either get open, or look for Malkin when he’s open, not crash and bang. But he definitely has some snarl to his game, and I think could be a good power forward if used that way. Thing is, Pitts don’t play that game, at least not on their top lines (Ruutu, Robert, Laraque). I think Malone is good for 20-22 next year on a playoff team, otherwise numbers comparable to Avery this year on one that isn’t.

    Don’t forget, he potted 22 the year before the lockout: Pre Crosby and Malkin.

    OK, lunchtime is over, back to work. One last thing though. I think we can all agree on something: it sure is great to have something to talk about again!

  87. Comrade Doodie!

    I thought talking about NYR was what you did for work….You mean you really not Stan Fischler??

  88. Emery & Cloutier are on waivers right now.

    If they pass through, they can be bought out.

  89. Doodie Machetto on

    “I thought talking about NYR was what you did for work….You mean you really not Stan Fischler??”

    I’m so insulted right now, I don’t know what to say. Fischler? Kaspar, I thought we were Comrades! To think, I was going to suggest we look to the KHL for a certain Lithuanian born defender.

    You’ve hurt me.

  90. Doodie Machetto on

    Cloutier is going to retire. He’s never recovered from his surgery.

    Emery will find a new home fairly quickly, although, he won’t be paid much and will be on a tight leash.

    PS, so much for work.

  91. “The fact is this: There is a 56.6m cap for next season and we have 24.5m in cap space…even more if Backman and Hollweg are waived.” If we waive them, we still pay them. Its not free. And I don’t think waiving Backman does anything. It would mean we lose our pick to Nashville (it just got dealt for Chris Mason). Backman isn’t as bad as many think. Give the guy a chance before we jump down his throat and if he can’t handle it. We have Pock and other guys that can step in. Then waive him mid season since you have to pay him anyway. Also Backman is real good friends with Henke from their Olympic and junior days, so getting rid of him would probably piss Henke off as well. Although I don’t really care about that. haha.

    whoever said cheechoo was a prucha like guy in offensive production didn’t watch him. the 50 goals weren’t a fluke, just him and thornton worked great together at first and then lines were mixed up and stuff. hes a much better player than prucha.

    and I like this. I’m sick of this “look at our record with Avery” and the “but he is the only one that sticks up for people”. he WAS the only one. The young guys all play with grit and thats how they are taught in Hartford. Dubi, Cally, Byers, Dawes, everyone in Hartford would stick up for each other. We had too many softies but moving forth we won’t and Avery’s worth is a lot less. Plus I have a feeling without Shanny around, he’ll become a clubhouse cancer again.

  92. Can’t you waive them before game 1 and have them NOT be a cap hit?…like they did with Kaspar last year.

    Backman is too soft. I’ve seen his offensive upside a few times, but they are few and far between. I’d rather have Mitch Fritz on the blueline than Backman.

  93. I know we dont like them but there was an article (hidden within ads in the NY post) that rattled off some Devils 1st round picks: I’d like one of you guys in the know to do a NYR comparison.

    Between 1987 and 2005:
    Parise
    Zajac
    Brendan Shanahan
    Scott Neidemyer
    Brian Rolston
    Fat Marty
    Scott Gomez

    i think I forgot one, anyway….Give me Rangers from 1987 to 2005

  94. Doodie Machetto on

    Oh, intresting side note: that fourth rounder that the Blues traded for Mason was our 4th rounder that we used to get Backman.

  95. Johnny D, love your post – agree almost entirely, although I am a larger proponent of resigning Avery for a 2-3 year deal at the right price.

    I was the guy who said Cheechoo was like Prucha in that their performances have declined dramatically the past 3 years….it wasn’t a comparison of their skill level or styles of game, rather just a similarity in PEAKS and declining production post-lockout (56, 37, 23 vs. 30, 22, 7? [i’m not looking it up]).

  96. Everyone is so down on Backman but I don’t think he got a fair shake on Defense. It was almost like everyone envisioned Ozolinsh-part II and wrote him off already. Fact remains, Girardi use to hit, Tyutin rarely hits, and Mara started hitting, but nobody does it regularly and others don’t do it at all (although I hope Staal starts).

    So if you’re going to hate Backman for not hitting then hate the entire defensive corps too.

  97. “I thought talking about NYR was what you did for work….You mean you really not Stan Fischler??”

    That was mistake Comrade…I was mean to say Red Fisher!!

  98. From ME, Backman deserves the same chance that Malik got for the start of last season. I’ll give him until thanksgiving. Xmas if the team’s doing well.

  99. Doodie Machetto on

    Actually, you can waive them at any point and not have them be a cap hit. You still pay their salary, but no cap hit. Unless they get claimed on reentry. Then you are on the hook for half of the salary.

  100. I don’t care if they’re still being paid, I’d rather them not be on the active roster.

  101. Doodie Machetto on

    Right. Payment of salary doesn’t matter for the Rangers because they’re a wealthy team. But for an economically struggling team, it’s a big deal.

    As for Backman, I’m gonna be pretty patient with him. He had some flashes of solid play and even strung 2 or 3 solid games together. I’ll give him 15-20 games before I decide.

    I will be very strict with Fedor Tyutin though. I give him 10 games to show he isn’t the new Malik. He has just been awful since December, with no end in sight.

    Good thing Slats locked him up at almost 3 million for the next 4 years!

  102. To me, Rozsival was actually the worst evil on the Rangers defensive line (and perhaps second on the entire team only because of Hollweg’s timely miscues and skull crushing checks). Rozsival turned the puck-over, stopped being effective at transitions, was slow to get back into the defensive zone (even after getting beat on blue-line offensive pinch gone bad), porous defensively, porous down-low, failed to get the puck off the boards, and stopped scoring on the PP after the first 30 or so games.

    So how could Backman be any worse than that?

  103. Good thing Slats locked him up at almost 3 million for the next 4 years!
    ……

    Right, good thing! Let’s just sign Hollweg, Purinton, and Drury to 4-6 more years!!! I mean….haha

  104. There’s 2 different sides to the Jagr argument. I am at almost every home game and I rarely miss an away game on the tube. I love paying close attention to on ice strategies. The fact is though that Jagr always has more than 1 defender on his backside. This should realistically leave the rest of the ice 4 on 3 in our favor. Now argument 1 dictates that the rest of the players on the ice at the time need to step it up a notch which they really haven’t done consistently. Argument 2 says that the coaching staff and/or players are working on forcing everything to Jagr whether there’s an opening or not. If #1 is predominant, then you sign Jagr and fix the line. If it’s #2, it just isn’t going to get any better so you need to let Jagr walk.

  105. troj
    they even force everything to Jags on PP!!!
    This is why I say bad coaching you replce Jags with anyone ( sundin, Hossa, Oprah)and its the same

  106. you have to waive to minors though I though. If you waive to cut you still get a cap hit. Either way i like Backman on the PP and as a 5 or 6 in the back. Let’s give the guy a real chance and a fresh start before writing the guy off. Now he’s used to NY so maybe he won’t try too hard where he screws up. Plus if our forwards move on the breakout, his giveaway problem is solved since he actually will have passing lanes.

  107. I’ll agree that Straka, Shanny, Rozi, Malik, Hollwegg and Backman should all be allowed to go elsewhere.

    However, I think Jagr should stay on another year at $6 million with incentives and Avery at $3 million, leaving us with about $15 million to sign Orpik and Campbell.

    I would then make an offer to Brunette in Colorado or Gratton in Tampa.

    We have Anisemov, Korpikoski, Moore and Byers to challenge for spots out of Hartford.

    I also think that if you made such an investment in Drury and Gomez the Rangers should continue to make an investment in their team by signing Campbell ($7 million) and Jagr ($6 million + incentives) and Avery ($3 million). I think with these five players, plus Hank in net and Sanguetti, Staal, Dawes, Dubi, Cally and Betts the Rangers are just as god as any team in the east, the best team being Pittsburgh.

    Brunette, Dubinsky, Jagr
    Dawes, Gomez, Callahan
    Avery, Drury, Sjostrom
    Orr, Betts, Byers

    Campbell, Staal
    Orpik, Sanguetti
    Tyutin, Girardi

    You pretty much have the same nucleus of players from last season with a better PP and more speed and hitting on defense.

  108. When you clear house, as in a legit serious cleansing, as we did before the lock-out in 03-04, you don’t just start “rebuilding” with only homegrown players 4 years later b/c you got ousted in round 2 of the playoffs in back to back years with still a VERY young team (second youngest in the entire league), not to mention a handful of new faces.

    I think Sam’s assesment is dead on. A great mix of youth and veterans wins in this league. Show me a team that has gone to the cup finals with only pre-pubescent faces. Even a perceived “young” Pitt had more than their fair share of aging vets (e.g. Roberts, Gonchar, Sykora, Gil).

    You can’t replace a guy like Jagr, you just can’t. Maybe 2 years from now a guy like Dubinsky will start having 35+ goal season, but not next year.

  109. Here Kaspar
    NYR #1 dfraft picks

    86- Leetch
    87- Jason More
    88—–
    89- Steven Rice
    90- Michael Stewart
    91- Alexei Kovalev
    92- Peter Ferraro
    93- Niklas Sundstrom
    94- Dan Cloutier
    95——-
    96-Jeff Brown
    97- Stefan Chemeski
    98- Manny Malhotra
    99- Jamie Lundmark & Pavel Brendl
    00———
    01-Dan Blackburn
    02———
    03- Hugh Jessiman
    04- Al Montoya & Lauri Korpikoski
    05- mark Staal

  110. Without Jagr Dubinsky would not have played in the playoffs.
    ……….

    Gomez had a strained or broken rib, Drury tore some rib cartilage or muscle, Betts took a slap-shot to the face…Every other center was injured, and you don’t think the Rangers would have given Dubinsky a chance to rest at least one of those guys?

    Laughable.

  111. I like the fact that they are taking this approach…
    Would the Rangers get a chance to match offers…if so they prob would overpay for a player like Avery…
    If he’s only offered 2.5 or 3 mil. he will get a clear message that he’s not worth 4 mil or whatever he’s asking…
    To busy to check all the posts…
    Catch up later…

  112. Doodie Machetto on

    “you have to waive to minors though I though”

    Johnny, thats what waiving is. It’s the process of passing from the major club to the minors. If the guy fails to report, you can then suspend him, and not pay him anything, salary included.

    vogs, wow. Hook me up with your dealer, because I definitely need whatever you’re on.

    Let’s start from the top:

    1) Avery will not accept 3 million.
    2) You neglect to factor in the contract amounts for Brunette and Sanguinetti, as well as a backup goaltender.
    3) Who scores goals? Callahan? Dawes? Yes, they will all of a sudden both transform into 20+ scorers. Brunette and Jagr are the only wings on the team there who have scored more than 20, or have had 30 assists. And besides Avery, none of them have ever come within a sniff of those numbers.
    4) Sanguinetti is a year away from being ready for the NHL, maybe 2. Yet, he is our 2nd pairing defenseman.
    5) Jagr’s incentives will count against the cap NEXT year, plus we will be handcuffed salary wise during this season, should we need to make a trade or bring someone up from hartford. Besides, Jags isn’t looking for a one year deal.
    6) Where is Petr Prucha?
    7) Where is Backman?

    That team is just as awful as the team this year. Sorry dude.

  113. Doodie Machetto on

    What does everyone think abou Paul Mara? Let him go, or bring him back for a certain price?

  114. “Johnny D, love your post – agree almost entirely, although I am a larger proponent of resigning Avery for a 2-3 year deal at the right price.”

    I agree with that. I was just saying if he isn’t going to take less then we’re fine without him.

    “To me, Rozsival was actually the worst evil on the Rangers defensive line (and perhaps second on the entire team only because of Hollweg’s timely miscues and skull crushing checks). Rozsival turned the puck-over, stopped being effective at transitions, was slow to get back into the defensive zone (even after getting beat on blue-line offensive pinch gone bad), porous defensively, porous down-low, failed to get the puck off the boards, and stopped scoring on the PP after the first 30 or so games. ”

    I said it and my friends laughed at me but I believe Malik was made to look worse thanks to Rozsival. If you noticed, when Rozy was out there with Malik, he played….ok he looked better. Malik made up for a hell of a lot of his mistakes. Because of that he was caught out of position and stuff like that making him in turn look worse. When Rozsival was with Staal, those flaws showed a lot and when Malik played with Mara he played much better. I’m not saying I want to keep Malik because I want him gone just like everyone, but I’m just saying that a lot of people gave him crap when he had to cover almost two positions and make up for Rozsival’s major mistakes.

  115. You can’t replace a guy like Jagr, you just can’t.

    …..

    The point is, we don’t really need to. We can afford to have that “hole” next year while our kids learn about winning and losing the hard way, without Uncle Jagr to rely on. Without Jagr, we’ll see who is thirsty enough to step up.

    I promise you, not having Jagr will not cost us winning a Stanley Cup.

  116. “Johnny, thats what waiving is. It’s the process of passing from the major club to the minors. If the guy fails to report, you can then suspend him, and not pay him anything, salary included.”

    You can waive to cut though too. If you cut a player, its pretty much buying him out and that counts against the cap I thought. If you send him to the minors, just hope he gets claimed right away. Either way we shouldn’t do that to Backman just yet.

    And I’m not sold on Dubinsky being a “star” as some have said. I think he’ll be good but not a top star in the league. Sure playing with Jagr helped, but he helped set AHL franchise records with the pack when playing with Immonen (who is gone to Finland) and Dawes. He definately needs work, but I think its better for him to find his game himself instead of rely on Jagr because when Jags finally does hang him up, how is Dubi supposed to adjust to playing without him? Better to do it now when he’s young.

  117. Whenever there is a guy with some talent and you know for a fact that you never question his heart, you bring him back. Mara is that kind of guy. Definately want him back.

  118. Mara was the most solid, yet, under-rated defensman the Rangers had this past season. No question in my mind he proved his heart and worth. His playoff performance was even better than the regular season (challenging Malkin and playing physical). Maybe $3.0 million…?

  119. Doodie Machetto on

    Johnny you’re confusing a couple of different things. A player can only be bought out from June 15 to June 30. He has to pass waivers to be bought out. After that, if a player is on your roster, and they are eligible for waivers, you can waive them, but they only will report to your minor league club. At that point, you are still paying their salary, but it won’t count towards your cap. only guys on your pro roster count against your cap, based on a pro rata distribution of their cap number against the number of days on your roster. I think there were 187 eligible days last season. So every day on the roster counts at 187th of your actual cap hit for the season. At no point can your projected cap hit be above the maximum allowable at any point during the season, nor can your actual cap hit rise above the cap ceiling.

  120. Doodie Machetto on

    Pavel, Yes, but LA wouldn’t.

    I’d bring Mara back for 2 or less. Otherwise, let him go too.

  121. “Here Kaspar
    NYR #1 dfraft picks’

    Thanks 22!

    Wow! Pretty barren between Kovi and Staal heh?

    There-in lies the root of our struggles possibly……..

    trying to be Positive though, under Slats: Staal and then lower round guys Dubes, Hank, a few others

  122. Pavel..

    No under no circumstances do I make that trade to LA..

    tyutin cannot hit the side of a barn but he is a legit top 4 d man, dubi has a legit future, etc…

  123. guys just because bozos talk about certain moves do not mean they will happen. I assume the person who said the rangers were the 2nd youngest team in the league is accurate the futre is bright;; dubi, cally, dawes will all get better. so will staal and girardi…

    straka was not a top 6 forward last yr..

    if I was the boss I would bring back Jagr for 2 yrs and Avery for 3 yrs (at less then $4 per yr.) and then let shanny, straka, malik, etc all go.

    Mara at a couple of mill a yr for 2 yrs also may work, I did think he came up big in the playoffs and is a legit 3rd pair d man….

  124. Can’t trade Dubi….just ordering Ranger jersey with “Dubinsky’ on back although last one had Kaspar on back and you know what happened next….Holy Crap! you better hope I dont put hank on back next! Make checks out to Kasper Inc.

  125. Wow Pavel, that has to be the worst trade proposal ever.

    You want to trade one of the best up and coming big centers in the league (proven alreadY) and a 2nd line D-man (on any team) who hasn’t peaked for a guy who’s had arguably 1 1/2 good seasons in Cammalerri and some no-namer at #2 who could be an Alexander Daigle for all we know.

    Talk about risky and completely unnecessary.

  126. SeamusORiley on

    Kasper wrote:

    “Kaspar
    June 20th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
    Can’t trade Dubi….just ordering Ranger jersey with “Dubinsky’ on back although last one had Kaspar on back and you know what happened next….Holy Crap! you better hope I dont put hank on back next! Make checks out to Kasper Inc.

    This is funny. Years ago, I would not let my kids get a jersey with any name on it but there own. I called it the “LT Factor” whereas as soon as you spend big bucks (3 sons!) on a jersey, the athlete will be arrested for

    a. beating his wife
    b. kiddie porn
    c. crack

    the ONLY athlete that I suspended the LT Factor rule on was Wayne Gretzsky. ’nuff said.

  127. the ONLY athlete that I suspended the LT Factor rule on was Wayne Gretzsky.

    ………

    Thank God you spelled it wrong or something bad might’ve actually happened….

  128. “the ONLY athlete that I suspended the LT Factor rule on was Wayne Gretzsky.

    Thank God you spelled it wrong or something bad might’ve actually happened…”

    I wear this shirt of a guy goes from playing in NYC to Hartford to St Pete (Russia) just about to sign in Siberia!!!

    Someone must have worn a Janet Jones Jersey at one time….

  129. Look,there is only one reasson and one reason only that ALL the names we ‘ve been talking about to re-sign or not since the season ended is the salary cap,with no cap,Avery,jagr at least would beb signed already.

  130. czechthemout!!!! on

    My prediction for our first pick is unfortunatly going to be Jared Staal.It will be yet another draft where we will look back on and talk about all the players Drafted after him that go on to have great careers.

    I would like to see us trade up and pick up either Doughty,Bagosian,or Filatov.If we stand pat I’d love to see John Carlson.Lets hope for the best.

  131. I live in Calif. I have Directv, I can’t find the daft, any ideas???

    the nhl network has a old playoff game..

    thanks,

  132. Rangers fans are clamoring for Sather to make a major move for Brian Campbell, but I think the team should cut costs on the blue line, not add them.

    The Rangers have a great goalie and they play a defense-first system where their forwards are willing to do a lot of the dirty work in their own zone. Rozsival, Malik and Mara aren’t exactly Norris Trophy candidates–instead of paying $3-4 million per season for those three, don’t you think the Rangers can get a few defenseman who won’t do any worse that will cost less?

    Decent forwards this season won’t come cheap.

  133. Just to focus on the Avery situation. He, and without doubt his agent realize he is at the very peak of his $$ value right now. I guess everyone has their view, but objectively it would be wrong to say he did not add value to the Rangers the last one+ seasons. I just would hate to lose that level of grit. With the roster as it sits right now, who would provide that quality. It’s a quality, it’s not an ‘intangible’. I’m getting really sick of that word, as it basically means someone is not thinking hard enough.

    I would not pay him more than 3 mil, but I hope Sather does get him back. I’m also counting on a guy as full of himself as Avery to simply detest the idea of being anywhere but NYC. If anybody fits that description, it’s Sean A.

  134. ranger picks on

    Fedor Tyutin (second rd)
    Alexei Kovalev
    Doug Weight (second rd)
    Dan Cloutier
    Tony Amonte (fourth rd)
    Henrick Lundqvist (seventh rd)
    Brandon Dubinsky (second rd)
    Ryan Callahan (fourth rd)
    Marc Staal
    Bob Sanguinetti
    Artem Anisimov
    Alexei Cherepanov

  135. maybe its me but I really think a lot of fans are overrating Dubinsky. One of the best up and coming big centers? I don’t know about that. Will he be good? Definately but one of the best in the league? You guys clearly don’t watch the west then. And camalleri is a better player than dubinsky. I don’t want to make that trade but I just wanted to point that out. Camalleri is the real deal and Dubinsky needs to show me he can do it consistently without Jagr for me to say the same about him.

  136. Ranger Picks – I read your post. just wondering what you are getting at? I don’t understand. Please explain.

  137. Jordan –

    I absolutely could not possibly disagree with you any more than I do. First of all, I’m not sure if Renney actually wants to play a “defense first” system. I think out defensemen were so generally inept at moving the puck and getting that first pass out of the zone. As a result, you had a whole slew of forwards – Jagr, Gomez, Shanny, Avery, Prucha, Dawes – who actually have very little interest in doing the “dirty work” forced into playing that way. Meanwhile the team’s #1 defenseman – Rozival – is really a #3 (on a great night). What the rangers need are more highly skilled and more physical defenseman. How else was Staal able to emerge as the most reliable defender midway through his rookie year?

    Yeah, there are holes to be filled at forward, no doubt. But the Rangers need defensemen who can actually play defense, have a solid point shot, and move the puck effectively. Let’s face reality – Tyutin and Girardi are a great third pair. Staal is a number 2. 3 of our top 4 need to be found, drafted or signed.

  138. czechthemout!!!! on

    Jonny D-

    I respectfully disagre with you.Dubi got Jagr going more than anyone else.I think Dubi will be great one day with or without Jagr.

  139. Peter,

    Mara, Malik and Rozsival earned more than Campbell this year, all in the final years of their contracts.

    I didn’t say they need to cut quality–but there’s got to be better options out there for a reasonable price, but 40-goal scorers don’t sign for peanuts.

    I just don’t think Sather is good at signing defensemen (both at determining their cost and evaluating their abilities). Every defenseman that can “move the puck” has his salary and relative value inflated. Every “good-passing” defenseman that Sather has brought over in recent seasons (Poti, Mara, Ozolinsh) has gotten paid a little too much for the crap they’ve produced. Last year, everyone was going crazy asking the Rangers to sign Souray because he’s a great passer, great shooter, etc. Montreal’s power play still finished top of the league (and performed a little better, too) without him this year. Is Sheldon Souray really worth $5.4 million in a salary-cap league?

  140. I don’t know him at all, wish I knew more. All I know is I heard he has slipped a bit in his ranking since the time when he was thought of as maybe a #2 – #5 pick. That doesn’t really mean anything, though. I’m told he has great skills. In other words I know nothing.

  141. pierre kidneystones on

    screw jagr. he wants 2 years, which is his personal agenda, not in the team’s best interest. and he brings with him the czech clique, sittin’ on a couch together.

    Avery is a winner, jagr is a whiner.

  142. pierre k – 2 years could be an excruciatingly long time to be watching Jagr. I actually care a lot more about the Rangers future and my satisfaction as a 40 year fan than Jagr’s pride, bank account or otherwise. I say goodbye to him too, here’s hoping we both get that good news soon. Chips fall where they may, it’s not like the points Jagr scored will not be claimed by someone else.

  143. Totally agree with you Sam. Bring back Jagr for one more year. I also agree about Avery, could see him testing Drury or Gomez without Shanny or Jagr there.

  144. For some reason i think Jagr and Shanny put Avery in place aside form being in New york.
    I dont picture drury or gomez doing the same.
    but who knows

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