See what happens when that Jagr guy’s no longer holding him back?

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Brandon Dubinsky had a hat trick today in the “U.S.’s 9-1 win over Norway in the World Championships”:http://www.usahockey.com/.

If this against a nation other than Norway, I’d actually be impressed.

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101 Comments

  1. Rangers6830 on

    I miss my Rangers! Is it October yet??? :(

    True against Norway but still nice for Dubi.

  2. WeWantFishStix on

    Whats up all, i dont usually participate in the chats but i am always reading through. Id like to hear what you guys think about the new plans for the Garden and does anyone now when they will begin and if anything will be different by next season?

  3. I advise you guys to watch the wings/stars highlights. Datsyuk and Zetterberg are amazing. The last goal was absolutely insane. Pretty much Zetterberg beat 4 guys and dished it to Datsyuk for the hat trick.

  4. Add Ron Wilson to the list of available coaches. I see the Sharks let him go.

    Quenville, Maurice, Wilson, who else? I know there’s more.

    Probably the best pool of unemployed coaches the league has seen in a while.

  5. I saw that last night. And we will let them all get scooped up right in front of our eyes. Renney is just another one of our bust draft picks that we will hold onto for too long. We’re are likely going to let a good opportunity go to waste here.

    I still think he’s the biggest reason our team never really clicked this year and I don’t think he has the talent to take a team past the 2nd round. The talent to actually bring the best out of all his players. If anything, he gets the bare minimum from his guys.

  6. Quenville is actually the guy I wanted before he took the COL job. But he’s another guy that gets his team to the playoffs, literally, every year, and can’t get them deep. Him and Hitch, but at least Hitch won one in DAL.

    “I don’t think he has the talent to take a team past the 2nd round.”

    I think our D didn’t and won’t have the talent to get out of the 2nd round. If Rozy or Mara is your “vet” leader, you’re in trouble.

  7. Look at the 4 teams left…with the exception of Philthy(whom I still believe is only alive b/c of the teams they drew), the D’s are impressive. You’ve got one of the best in Gonchar, the size and toughness in Orpik/Gill in Pitt.

    Then DAL…Zubov, Norstrom, Niskanen(rookie, but awesome), Boucher(inconsistent, but nothing to overlook).

    Det…I don’t even need to explain that one.

    Then our own guys…. toots/girardi need to get their heads out of their asses. Staal is a rookie that played well. Mara may never reach is full potential. Backman sux. Struds? Rozy gave up, at least I hope he did. Otherwise there’s no excuse. Malik?

    There you have it.

  8. I hate when predictions like that are right too. When everyone in the hockey world said that our D was suspect. They were right. And it kept us from moving on…this year.

    If our cap room is spent up front AGAIN, don’t expect anything different next season.

  9. Backman needs to be waived. Let him spend all year in Hartford that way the insane amount of money the Rangers pay him won’t count against the cap.

  10. Then our own guys…. toots/girardi need to get their heads out of their asses. Staal is a rookie that played well. Mara may never reach is full potential. Backman sux. Struds? Rozy gave up, at least I hope he did. Otherwise there’s no excuse. Malik?

    Beer you’re missing my point. We all _know_ how good Tyuts, Rozsy, Girardi can be. We’ve seen it, those guys are PRETTY GOOD when they are on their A game. It’s Renney who did not cull the absolute *best* out of his guys. If all those guys stepped their games *up* the same percent that Mara did, were probably 2-0 with Philly right now.

    I agree we need a Vet, but Vets are not just born. Roszy could have become a legit Vet this season if he was worked right. He was exemplary last season down the stretch.

  11. Speed Ranger on

    I’m happy for those Rangers doing well at the IIHF… but still a selfish part of me wishes they’d emptied the tanks over here.

  12. And Renney lacks the capabilities to take the Rangers past the 2nd round because this based on what again? Oh yeah, the past two playoff seasons following a year in which we were swept after having gone years without a playoff appearance. I’m sure glad you’re not heading up our country’s cancer research….I don’t understand where you based your “facts” on so I assume it is simply your opinion that Renney is largely at fault because we had a cup caliber team that simply didn’t succeed because Renney couldn’t motivate them to.

    Granted there are many problems I have with Renney’s apparent game strategies and personnel decisions but that is typical of just about any coach — why the past two years have proven that Renney can’t get it done is beyond my understanding. What I think it exposed, is that there were several holes in our team and we didn’t necessarily fill them appropriately. At the same time you have to admit nothing about this season from the get go seemed like it was going to work according to the plan on paper…such is life. Call is cosmic power, karma, luck, whatever…saying this is more about the coach than it is about the players is a bit of a mental stretch….let’s face it, you just don’t like Renney but you also probably think you know a lot more about hockey (like most of us here) than you do.

    Bottom line, the Rangers are soft and on the slow side….they can win but if they get matched up with someone who has both and also is getting the bounces then it will be extremely difficult to overcome that (see pitt series). Until this is addressed then it may be more or less the same but Renney being the culprit, and I don’t really think his style, is a bit absurd.

    Also, does anyone think it may just be a bit obvious that we just got beat by Pittsburgh with all the “savior” anointing of Pen players going on in NYR chats. Malone? Puhlease! This guy is not the next John LeClaire or Pat Verbeek — gimme a break…let’s see what he does next year before throwing millions his way….a lot easier to find a solution with Avery than to bring in Avery sans antics into the mix and overpay him when we need that money elsewhere. Orpik, yes, I love it, and like many others, I too developed a mancrush for him after the way he manhandled just about everyone in Blue. We have desperately needed a Beukeboom style D man for years (Kaspar just never regained that form) so that is obvious and yes something needs to be down about the outlet passes and PP. Throwing money at Campbell and other chat room darlings is a huge mistake and will be more likely to result in another early exit than will be Renney behind the bench for another year.

  13. “(Kaspar just never regained that form)”

    Hey Rich, you should see me now man….
    (Check out PIM in Russian superleague)

    “I’m happy for those Rangers doing well at the IIHF… but still a selfish part of me wishes they’d emptied the tanks over here”

    Speed. I agree, I’m almost afraid to watch…I might see Rozival shooting the damn puck or smashing a Latvian and have to go thru TV screen

  14. renney was not the sole reason we lost, but his loyalties to his system and mediocre players (hossa, hollweig, ward, even betts)/players past their prime (shanny, straka, even jagr) have hurt us a lot. if that changes then maybe he can get it done,

    real test to see what he can do as a coach will occur if and only if jagr is not resigned. while jagr is here, renney will keep defering to him to the detriment of the team

  15. I don’t like Renney because his team often comes out looking unmotivated. I think we could have at least gone to 7 games with PIT if we had a coach who knew how to keep his guys going the whole way through, not letting up a 3,4, 5 goal leads, etc…. That’s the issue for me. I could give a shit who plays in a given situation. If you’re a solid coach, your players will go above and beyond not to screw up. It’s common knowledge that Renney is a “player’s coach” and that he’s very lenient with his personnel. Y’know, that’s FINE if you’re a team that gets *big* results. If that’s your means to an end, so be it. But that end has to be there, otherwise you look like a f*cking clown who’s been soft on your guys and as a result gotten soft results on the ice. Zero accountability results in things like Hollweg taking liberties in playoff games, etc. That’s just the most recent memory. Renney has never *made his guys work for it*. He seems like a nice guy but a poor leader and shitty coach. He doesn’t pose any threat to his players in ANY sense of the word, and that has proven to make for a chipper, smiling team that is just happy to get by with a point per game and enjoy smooth city livin’ afterwards. It’s shameful that there are people that are “proud” of the 2008 team. Absolutely shameful. What a disgrace. PHILLY IS IN THE F*CKING ECF AFTER BEING IN GUTTER LAST YEAR. THEY WENT THROUGH THE #1 SEED. CHEW ON THAT. CHEW. ON. *THAT*. Those fans should be proud. Here we’ve got the same line over and over:

    “Renney got us into the playoffs 3 years in a row after NOT MAKING IT IN YEARS. SO YAH I THINK HE’S A REALLY GOOD COACH.”

    Fools. _Lundqvist_, above all else, got you into the playoffs the last 3 years. and don’t forget, that is BARELY into the playoffs.

  16. I don’t think I was missing your point. I didn’t all season. You blame Renney. I blame the players and the (ahem ahem) Captian (?) for taking the 1st 60 games off. And letting his team down with a lack of effort.

    We know each others stances on pretty much ‘everything rangers’. There’s no point in going through this all summer.

  17. I don’t recall saying Renney got us into the playoffs. But if your thoughts are to be anything but just an opinion you have to produce something a bit more significant than 2 playoff seasons where we didn’t make it out of the 2nd round, I think for different reasons mostly.

    Regular season in the NHL means little IMHO beyond getting invited to the dance — injuries, passion, momentum, and lady luck factor in a lot more so Montreal’s #1 seeding and PHI’s success, as much as that makes me seethe with rage, is not all that shocking to me so nothing to really chew on.

    That said, I do agree there are some moments you can point to that perhaps would have led to different outcomes had Renney called a time out, went with Prucha intead of Hollywood, held off on the 4th line, double shifted Jagr and others, etc etc. I can second guess all day long but in the end it still comes down to the players — their farking ridiculous salaries should be motivation enough — who didn’t make the extra efforts in the corners consistently enough, the fact that our defense was overmatched, and we just didn’t have luck on our side in most situations.

    “Shameful” to be proud of the 08 team? obviously didn’t meet your expectations or their own but are we to only be proud of teams that win the cup? If we would have made it to the 3rd round would you be saying that Renney doesn’t have it to make it past the 3rd round? Maybe the players quit because the home town fans lucky enough to afford a ticket quit on them at the first sign of trouble….maybe they aren’t motivated to stage a giant comeback because their fans spend more energy on pissing and moaning than they do on rallying the troops (spare me the this is New York and we’re tough fans diarrhea). I just remember watching game 3 and instead of constantly hearing “Let’s Go Rangers” all I could hear were occasional boos and the Potvin chant that really should have no place during the playoffs unless it is against the friggin Isles

  18. Doodie Machetto on

    Salty, I agree, Renney doesn’t seem to have what it takes to get his team to the next level.

    But the weakest link in our coaching staff has got to be Perry Pearn. The only PP that the guy knows are his initials. Look at our lineup. Look at all of the PP specialist forwards we had, and you seriously mean to tell me that they couldn’t go at least 1 for 5 all season? Awful.

    What I disagree with you abotu is Dubinsky. Taking Jagr off his line won’t make him a #2 or 3 center. He is going to do that with or without him, and no better or worse in either situation. He is going to be a great player when he adds more muscle. Jagr will not hinder or accelerate his development. Dubinsky was still playing his game when paired with Jagr: just watch him in January without Jagr and then in February with him: he played the exact same game.

    Sean Avery, where did you go in round 2 again? OK, so he had a goal in the first game (that was very soft by the way), and he got hurt in game 3. But I didn’t see him drawing penalties in games 1 or 2, but I did watch him be a human turnover machine in those 2 games. Although, I can say this about every Ranger except Jagr and Hank, who both had an off game (Hank in game 3, Jagr in game 5), but definitely were our best (and only good) players that series.

  19. Headline:

    “FANS DEFEAT RANGERS IN 5 GAMES, HOLLWEG VOWS REVENGE’

    Insanity

  20. Doodie Machetto on

    We lost the Pittsburgh series in game 1. Blowing the 3-0 lead, going down late after having tied it, and Jagr hitting the post with 15 seconds left just took much of the wind out of their sails. We all saw how terrible the entire team was in game 2 (except Jagr and Hank).

    I said it before and I’ll say it again: I think game 1 was even more deflating than game 5 last year.

  21. We lost the Pittsburgh series in game 1…I said it before and I’ll say it again: I think game 1 was even more deflating than game 5 last year.

    Absolutely.

    Beer I was more contending that our D doesn’t really need as much work as it looks like right now. (and then I lost myself on a renney tirade when I started thinking about it all again). People are quick to blame them (our D) right now, and they are right, but it’s not about the lack of skill, it’s about the effort. We need a real quality vet paired with Staal… but otherwise…our guys can play the game when they’re up to it.

    Rick Kane, I was proud of the team last year when they pulled it together down the stretch, played with soul, punished ATL relentlessly, and then fought literally *tooth and nail* with Buffalo. THAT was a nice change at the time. I was dripping with with pride, I am STILL enjoying that pride from last year. That was some real effort and I think with a better coach we’d have pulled that series out.

    Renney is a smooth talking businessman, but the thing is you can’t swindle a player into playing well. You have to tap into their souls, and you can’t fake that.

    I don’t think Renney got the players truly upset the whole year. At no point did he make them “prove anything” to him. I would have planted the seed of doubt in them instead of coddling them.

  22. Beer I was more contending that our D doesn’t really need as much work as it looks like right now. (and then I lost myself on a renney tirade when I started thinking about it all again). People are quick to blame them (our D) right now, and they are right, but it’s not about the lack of skill, it’s about the effort. We need a real quality vet paired with Staal… but otherwise…our guys can play the game when they’re up to it.

    …..

    haha

    I don’t know if it’s that we’re missing the ‘skill’ either. Perhaps it just hasn’t matured yet. But the D that we’ve seen the last 3 seasons is not cup-caliber. Not yet anyway.

  23. “Beer you’re missing my point. We all know how good Tyuts, Rozsy, Girardi can be. We’ve seen it, those guys are PRETTY GOOD when they are on their A game. It’s Renney who did not cull the absolute best out of his guys. If all those guys stepped their games up the same percent that Mara did, were probably 2-0 with Philly right now.

    I agree we need a Vet, but Vets are not just born. Roszy could have become a legit Vet this season if he was worked right. He was exemplary last season down the stretch.”

    I really don’t think any of our d-men are top 3 quality at all. Rozy is just awful in the defensive end. Hes really the same player as Karel Rachunek except he hits and shoots less and gives up the puck more. Girardi showed why he wasn’t drafted on several occasions down the stretch and I think that has to do with the fact that Tyutin also was playing awful so they lost that confidence they had.

    Thing about Renney is that hes a coach that can get us into the playoffs, but won’t do much else. Hes a coach that expects his team to be motivated it seems like but never does much to get the ready for the game emotionally. I’m not saying I want to see him all riled up and yelling because I don’t think that really works all the time and in most cases the team ends up losing its cool when you do that. But lighting a fire under their asses behind closed doors and making EVERYONE accountable for their mistakes is something that I have no problem with and it doesn’t look like him or his coaching staff do.

    They always talk about how they only like to look at the positives. Well sometimes you have to say, “Hey, look at this, you messed up here, fix it like this…” The powerplay was a great example. It didn’t work in October or November. At some point around mid to end of November you have to say, ok setting up Jagr by the boards isn’t working lets change this up. You can’t be everyones best friend even though you have some great veterans who have earned a sense of respect. Theres a difference between disrepecting an HOF veteran and trying to change something that doesn’t work when that veteran player is involved. And if that player (Jagr or Shanny in this case) has a problem with it, then they really need to take a look in the mirror. By the time March and April comes around, thats too late to even try to make a change in style or personnel.

    We aren’t saying Renney is a bad coach. None of us believe that. We just think hes one of those coaches that can get you into the playoffs, but not much farther.

  24. I don’t think thats fair to say yet. I don’t think there’s enough experience under his belt yet.

    Anyone wanna look up how many seasons some of the ‘greats’ coached before they won? Then look at the players on those teams.

    I’m thinking guys like Bowman, Blake, Arbour, etc.

  25. I just took a peek. I wouldn’t call it research. But it looks like bowman & arbour both had a bout 6 seasons under their belt before they won anything.

    Don’t get me wrong…I’m not saying renney is near their level. But what were people saying about those LEGENDS when they couldn’t win either?

  26. Don’t get me wrong…I’m not saying renney is near their level. But what were people saying about those LEGENDS when they couldn’t win either?

    ………

    I have no idea, but I wonder if anyone said “welp. looks like theyre not trying too hard. lets wait for the coach to get some experience in motivating them.”

    thats the problem. Renney’s _style_ is +never+ going to win a cup, in NYC. The Rangers are already a team where players come to get paid big money and are not really expected to produce anything. Renney is perpetuating this instead of changing the foundation. Renney is better off going to another struggling young team while we bring in a real hockey guy whos gonna make guys like Tyutin or Girardi’s sphincter tighten up at the thought of making a lazy mistake.

    Fun Fact For Fun: Jagr had the lowest numbers of his career under Tom Renney. Even under coaches he HATED and would ultimately have fired, he put up bigger numbers.

  27. Sam,
    Now that the season has been over for a few days now..why not give us your grades on each player from the season? Since there is “officially nothing going on” I think it would be interesting. Thanks!

  28. ANd by “season over” I mean Rangers. Im still tuned in to the the playoffs even though Rangers are out. Should be Pitt – Det, and what a series that would be!!

  29. Salty et al. I must concede that I do agree with some of your points about Renney — I too have wondered that if Renney, being the “soft” coach he appears to be, has allowed our Rangers to get away with being soft themselves? It’s probably bias but I feel like I saw way more Rangers (with obvious and notable exception of Callahan, Dubi, even Mara, yes, I said Mara) let up instead of finishing their checks than I’ve seen on other NHL teams, especially those still playing.

    That said, aren’t there a ton of examples of hard nosed coaches who alienate their players and essentially destroy seasons because of their rigid, tough styles? Didn’t we have a few that didn’t work except for Keenan and Calgary didn’t go anywhere in the playoffs. I don’t know what the solution is but I would tend to err on the side of coaches that players at least enjoy playing for and therefore would hopefully respect enough to play hard for. I still think it is personnel first and foremost so I guess we’ll see next season.

  30. oops I shoulda probably said Hollweg instead of Mara but then that would be a case of when a Ranger should have let up and didn’t….

    as for topics to cover Sam, how about an insider’s opinion on the media coverage of the playoffs — not just the obvious like VS is awful — but analysis like why VS sucks so much, why someone hasn’t gotten fired yet for introducing the “in-game” bench interviews with coaches and players between shifts, and whether there is indeed a media bias working on behalf of Bettman’s darlings?

    I just hope that the next time Chris Simpson goes in for an interview during a critical juncture in the game in order to “sell” the game to the world, that a coach just goes absolutely Richter (as in scale) on her and makes her cry for asking such banal, boolchit questions when everyone should be focused on the ice. Give me Gary Thorne (absolutely no Clement) and a score box in the upper right of my screen and I will never say another word —

  31. Baranka to Russia….please tell me they got their Bs mixed up and they mean Backman to Russia!

  32. Devils advocate but Renney did manage to fire up at least one player during the season. Remember when Malik didn’t shake his hand then got benched. If I recall correctly he had a couple good games when he came back….

  33. Pavel – Detroit is obviously the better team. But a Sweep? I’d have to think Pitt could win a game or 2 at least.

    They are 9-1 right now. Theyve looked slightly less dominant than Detroit..given that Te west is a better crop.

    I’d say Detroit in 6 extremely entertaining games

  34. I like the Rangers. but im a hockey fan first. And I’ll admit..I love watching the Pens. They have it all.People hate on Sid..but that kid is simply amazing..and him with Malkin on the PP is great. No one who loves hockey can say a Pens game isnt good hockey. Regardless of team preference.

  35. czechthemout!!!! on

    Well,I can’t say I’m too surprised by Baranka leaving.I watched him play many games for the pack and 1 game this year for us.I thought he played very well against tampa deserved another couple of games.He also looked pretty good to me while with the pack.If you stop and put yourself in his place and watch shit like Backman,Malik,and Scrubwick labor out on the ice,making bone head play after bone head play and continue to get ice time,you start questioning if the orginization ever intends to give you a shot.I also think that Byers is now the next one to walk after this year unless he gets a chance.There also you see shit like Orr,Betts,and Hollweg f…ck up shift after shift and you produce at the ahl level but get no shot at the NHL.Very sad!

  36. Salty – I thought you _were_ proud of this years team a little over a week ago. What changed? Back to your old self again?

    Rick Kane – I’ve figured out those Versus interviews are done during commercial breaks. I can’t say all of them are, but I would guess so, because Simpson was interviewing Renney one time when Dubinsky was sitting in front of him, but Dubinsky was on the ice while they played the interview back.

    Baranka’s been injured so much that I can’t really mourn his loss, if it is true. Jessiman will probably walk, too, since his contract is up (if I remember correctly), and I can’t imagine the Rangers even want him here anymore, holding up a spot on their 50-man roster.

  37. I think Brooks has his numbers for Backman wrong in that article about Avery. Backman’s cap hit is $2.3 million, not 3.2, and his salary is $3.4 million next season, not 4, at least according to NHL Numbers.

  38. well my baranka jersey is now useless. Haha. Oh well. More about Renney, I think he’s agreat coach in developing young talent, like if the whole team was young and fed into his language, but with star veterans he doesn’t fit the mold. If we move on I’d say give him achance, but if the old guys come back then I don’t see him leading us to the cup. That was the goal this year so the fans expected it. Before the year started the players and coaches says they could get there, there work ethic or lack there of proved different.

  39. Salty – In my eyes, Renney has had pretty big results, especially being very close to the conference finals last season. Even not comparing to the years without playoffs, he has done well in comparison to the rest of the league, so his nice guy attitude works for me. Also, he has shown some strictness when necessary at key times of the year, based on having practices on planned off-days. He should do better with no Jagr-posse next year or in the future.

  40. It is interesting seeing the same results and frustration with the Flyers. Each game has had similiar story lines to the Rangers. I have to admit as much as I was pulling for the Flyers to begin the series I am now convinced that the Pens are playing at another level and have earned their spot in the finals. They have buried every turnover as they did against the Rangers while Philly has not been able to finish. Sound familiar.

  41. Several of you said it above and I agree: Game 1 was the worst of the year and cost the Rangers the series. Coming off beating NJ, going up 3-0 early in the second, no team that has aspirations to win the Stanley Cup loses that game. You guys can say what you want about Renney’s coaching, but it was the Rangers’ putrid defense -that horrific play by Roszival on which the whole series turned, and those equal stinkers by Tyutin and Girardi – that lost this game and ultimately the series.

    It was a disappointing ending but the Rangers ran into the best team in the East, and frankly, was the only team that had a shot to take them down and came damned close (Really, 3 of the Ranger losses could easily have gone either way). It was really a handful of plays. Roszival’s giveaway and miscue up 3-0 in game one, the BS Straka call that followed, the early whistle in game 2, Hollweg’s boarding in game 3 – there’s the whole thing right there.

  42. “Renney’s style is never going to win a cup, in NYC.” = speculation.

    “Even under coaches he HATED and would ultimately have fired, he put up bigger numbers.”

    So then the theory of not being able to ‘handle’ superstar ego’s can be disputed pretty fairly.

    I’m sure Jags wanted his option year to kick in, why wouldn’t he, right? So at the 1/2 way point when it looked like there was no chance, Renney was able to get this superstar ego in check and make him identify it isn’t about him. No?

    Salty, I know you and I agree that this team needs to move on from the Jagr-era. Do you think the absence of Captain Ego will help of hurt Tom Renney?

  43. Help for sure, but NYR will always be a team bringing in big names. Jagr goes, it’s not too long before there’s another “superstar” brought in (likely aging). I just don’t see Renney changing his inclination to let the stars have it their way, especially when the numbers aren’t coming anymore. That’s been the problem with this organization for years, and years, and years, and years. The biggest difference is we finally have a good goalie again, not Tom Renney being the savior coach. I seriously believe a computer could run the team better, like one of those NHL nintendo games. Tom tries way too hard to make things more difficult than they need to be and takes the whole team with him. I can’t speak for next season, I don’t know what the roster will look like. It may very well compliment Renney’s coaching, who knows… I have questioned Renney STRONGLY since the slide of ’05-’06. When everyone was choking down eachothers DNA over making the playoffs, I knew how badly we had blown a really easy and really special opportunity to take the Atlantic, and that reflected directly on Renney’s inability to motivate _this_ team. Two full seasons later, my argument is the same. Renney is too soft and should be coaching expansion teams and junior teams, *not* an Original Six team who had a really good roster and chance to have a special season.

    So yeah if Jagr goes I think we may see sides of Tom we haven’t seen yet, but I still question his capabilities of getting the BEST out of “good” players. I think by now everyone knows deep down you get unlimited strikes with Tom as long as you don’t insult him directly.

  44. I thought they were playing a game last night….never slept so good since my Islander days….is Pitt that much better than Philly? Or have “hands off the offense” rules made Jack a dull boy?????

    Look just because you can’t clutch and grab doesn’t mean you have to stop hitting people…does it??

  45. Doodie Machetto on

    Remember when we thought that Prucha27 was actually Petr Prucha? I think Larry Brooks is actually Avery’s father.

  46. Comrade doodie

    I am Larry brooks and I am not Avery’s father….John Belushi was

  47. Beer for Breakfast on

    It’s amazing, reading the Philly forums, how much they sound like we did here after the Penguins nearly swept us. No credit to the opponent, it was all the refs and what WE gave them — they did nothing. Pout pout.

    Reading that, I wondered — did we really sound like such whiners too? Kind of embarrassing.

    I gotta wonder, at what point does a team that’s only dropped one game through 3 rounds, get some credit for doing something on its own?

  48. Doodie Machetto May 13th, 2008 at 1:13 pm

    We lost the Pittsburgh series in game 1. Blowing the 3-0 lead, going down late after having tied it, and Jagr hitting the post with 15 seconds left just took much of the wind out of their sails. We all saw how terrible the entire team was in game 2 (except Jagr and Hank).

    I said it before and I’ll say it again: I think game 1 was even more deflating than game 5 last year.

    I was talking to someone about this just yesterday, and I totally agree…That first game crushed us and we never recovered.
    I’m having a tough time just watching any playoff hockey right now…though I have caught some of the Pit/Philly series…and I will say that whoever said we should go after Orpik is 100% correct. I would do what it takes to land him, even if it means not signing Avery. We desperately need to focus on our Defense and a finisher for Gomer…

  49. Sammy DeMeo on

    I was just thinking the same thing, Beer. Nobody here seemed too outraged when Pittsburgh had that obvious goal stolen from them the other night — for some reason nobody wanted to talk about that ha ha. I guess it’s better for the sake of the ol’ self-image that the “they want Pittsburgh to win” conspiracy thing gets preserved at all costs.

    Seriously though, how Toronto couldn’t see that was a goal on replay is beyond belief. I got a buddy who sells electronic equip downtown, maybe I should refer them to him?

  50. we all need to blame someone ( refs league, the kid, Franken-Malkin)

    You think Flyer and Ranger blogs are bad?

    Spend sometime on a Mapleleaf blog…I go on there to tell some of my Ukrainian border guard jokes and I wind up talking people down from Building ledges

    not even one final appearance in 40 years, crying about expectations of their adoring fans not being patient enough to rebuild,having to adjust to new NHL rules and cap-issues and yet….. Philly can completely rebuild in one season!!

    Hey,
    So Rangers were in top 8….thats all we really can say we deserve after this mediocre season heh??

  51. salty – I was JUST thinking the same thing with another ego coming to town. I think that slats realizes that to have success with Renney at the helm, he will need to bring in a certain type of player. And the case being that Renney was at the scouting helm when Dubi, Dawes, Staal, Cally, and others were brought in, it looks like that’s the direction the team is headed. We can only wait and see how it pans out.

    I am reluctant to concede that he may not get the best out of his “good” players. Dru & Gomer were right around their career averages, both playing with rookies should not be forgotten. Jagr, straka, shanny are aging vets with their best years behind them. If that’s who you were referring to as the ‘good’ players, you may want to examine just what you mean by ‘good’. “Has-been’s” would be more like it. Otherwise…that’s all the players I would categorize as “good”. The rest, average.

    The biggest gripe I have with most people assessments of Renney is that they focus on his relationship with superstars. Messier’s ego could fill a goddamn ocean. Jagr’s not far behind. And Avery, well, I don’t know why he feels like he can shoot his mouth off whenever he feels. He hasn’t earned jack sh!t…yet. Renney has been a keystone in developing “future blue” and somehow that is second to most NYR fans because they’ve been fed shovel-fulls of B.S. teams for a decade +.

    Renney may be the type of coach you need to build a team that he is able to win with. Whether it is successful or not, we will soon find out. I admire the dedication of slats and the rest of the brass to stand firmly on the path they are taking.

    If the team doesn’t make it past the 2nd round next season under Renney’s watch, well, I’ll concede my confidence in him then.

    If Pitt keeps that team together next year, winning the division is out of the question, and would put us hopefully no lower than 4th place at seasons end.

    side note: NYR have been the only team to beat Pitt in 7 weeks.

  52. Doodie Machetto on

    Pitt is losing SOMEONE dring the offseason, most likely Hossa, but possibly someone else, such as Orpik or Malone. Probably not all three.

  53. Doodie Machetto on

    I never had any conspiracy theory about Pittsburgh or New York when it came to officiating. I just said that it was awful, and Crosby gets star treatment, just as most of the game’s top superstars have had throughout the past 20 years.

    They definitely blew a few calls in the other direction as well, and I was quick to point those out when they did. We definitely lucked out a few times.

    The conspiracy stuff is ludicrous. Saying the officiating was terrible is quite another thing. Even so, we still have no one to blame but ourselves. If we took game 1, I think we would have won the series. But blowing a 3 goal lead, and giving up the late goal, hitting the post with 15 seconds left, that was it. I knew right then we would lose in 5 games, and even predicted to my friends which games we would lose and by how much.

  54. I agree with that as well. I was at the Garden last night for a Kanye West show, and I was depressed. My friends saw me looking at one of the Rangers clothing ads while we were taking the escalator up and they said, “Don’t do it man, don’t do it to yourself.” It was kind of funny. But there was a guy with a penguins hat on and I wanted to push him over the railing. I hate the offseason.

  55. Also, Hossa is proving a lot of people, including myself, wrong about him as a player. The guy is playing like a beast, and he could also have more goals if he scored on all of his opportunities. I am not saying we should sign him, but he is having himself a nice playoffs, and it looks like if he has a good center dishing him the puck he can bury some goals. Who would you all rather have on your team, Heatley or Hossa?

  56. Whats up boys and girls
    been too depressed to come here and see offseason news as of late
    I HATE RANGERS OFFSEASON
    Anyway, a few questions I’ve been pondering:

    With PITTS DEFINITELY not being able to keep there entire team intact next season, who do you think we are going to go after? Orpik? Hossa? I really don’t want Hossa as he’s gonna be so damn expensive, times 2 if Pitts wins the cup, but, I have a very good feeling Detroit is walking away with it this year, there jsut too damn good.

    Rosi Rosi Rosi – I say get rid of him. What say you?
    MAra – Keep/Cheap
    Vali – Keep/Cheap
    Hollweg – Get rid of him
    Shoestrom – Keep
    BAckman – Get rid of him
    Struds struds struds – Great man great team player, great stasch, what do we do with him?

    Pearn – If he leaves and we dont resign shanny, do you think there is anyway Shanny would take the PP job?

    No JAgr Straka Shanny talk other than the above.
    I think we’ve all beat that to death already and its only 5/14

  57. Here is one scenario with two possible solutions, and be honest;

    Crosby is streaming into Ranger end, you are fans watching and he is superstar with great vision and a clear mind…

    Solution A
    the de-man closing in on him is one of ( malik-backman-struds) What does crosby do beside smile wide??? what do you fans do besides close your eyes?

    Solution B
    The De-man is the one and only High-sticking-elbows sharpened-teeth showing-Kaspar!!!!

    What does crosby want?
    What do you guys want?

    1 year 600G
    I’ll play

  58. hossa wont be the same player if he is the only offensive stud on the team. lot easier to perform when u have a superstar on another line and you are playing with a superstar yourself. personally i don’t want to sign hossa, but i dont even see how we could. can you really pay four players 7 million a year for at least the next 4 years?

    i do like orpik tho and think he’d be a good signing to play with staal. id let roszy and mara go and let pock/sauer/potter compete for the final spots.

  59. Speed Ranger on

    Kaspar. Maybe we take up a collection for you? If a player’s salary comes from fan donations does it count against the cap? Now I’m laughing thinking of the suits in Toronto trying to seriously answer that question…..

  60. You laugh speed ranger but you know deep down Mapleleafs are like my only real hope…..maybe Atlanta too get to work with creepy loafer Kovalchuck ( poor mans Kharlomov)

  61. Speed Ranger on

    Kaspar —

    I would *never* laugh at you, considering those wicked hip checks you inflicted on a different Pens team circa 1993. Weren’t you the one who ended kevin Stevens’ career?

    I would love for you to be a Ranger again.

  62. Beer me, I was kinda trying to point that out before but I didn’t openly say it. I think Renney IS the right coach for the team of the future since he knows those guys and drafted them. Not to mention I believe he does preach to crash the net hard and take the body, its just something the older guys don’t do. If we have the same team like last year and base our team around Jagr and Shanny then we’ll get stuck in the 2nd round. If we move on and keep building around Gomez and Drury and the young guys, I’ll give him a shot. If we sign any veteran FAs, they should play the same style because then Renney won’t have to try to persuade them to play his style of hockey, which believe it or not is hard nosed.

  63. Johnny – For the 1st time in a long time I believe that from the top down there is a single focus. Develop youth, stay away from egotistical players, and play a simple game. Let’s just hope we’re right!

  64. Speed Ranger
    “Weren’t you the one who ended kevin Stevens’ career? ”

    Comrade Speed I dont know who it was; I normally close my eyes right before impact…like that time crazy nut Wendel Clarke hit me with 26 straight shots

  65. Refund!
    I was just elected to lithuanian sports stars hall of fame Man!

    hold’em a while they’ll go up in value once Bettman’s NHL expands into eurasia

  66. Sports Illustrated makes me sick.

    I don’t know who SI.com’s content manager is, but they have a link on the NY Rangers page that reads: “Rangers Take OHL Title”.

    Yeah, that’s the Kitchner Rangers a-holes! Read the G-Damn article!!

  67. We also have to remember that when Jagr came here, I believe Sather was still coaching. Renney helped with the drafts but he wasn’t actually coaching the team. Now with him coaching, we need to get guys that fit his style in here. I honestly think that with players that play Renney’s style, Perry Pearn’s powerplay will actually work. He’s a pretty smart coach that had a lot of success in Ottawa when he was there, a team that has always had a solid powerplay. If he has young kids that are willing to learn and give into the system, it will work. It really is easier said than done when you have stubborn vets that only like to do things there way. I don’t blame Renney or Pearn or any of the coaches for the veteran players being stubborn. It took Roenick 5 years to finally give in to a new system because he was out of a job and was spending time at the bar every night.

  68. Speed Ranger on

    Roenick — seems he turned his game around when he stopped drinking. Not to mention blaming everyone but himself.

  69. Doodie Machetto on

    “The guy is playing like a beast, and he could also have more goals if he scored on all of his opportunities. I am not saying we should sign him, but he is having himself a nice playoffs, and it looks like if he has a good center dishing him the puck he can bury some goals. Who would you all rather have on your team, Heatley or Hossa?”

    First, Hossa is not playing THAT well. He has had 100 chances because he is playing with Sidney Crosby. The fact that he doesn’t have at least 10 goals is a disgrace. In my mind, the guy still is a playoff slacker. If you can only pot 8 goals playing with the most creative center in the game today, with the literal dozens of chances he has had, you are not an elite playoff performer. Even the goals he is scoring are flukes, like the series clinching flub he had on Lundqvist. Hank had his shot read perfectly, Hossa just whiffed on it. And it’s not just havign a *good* center, it’s having the most creative center in the NHL.

    To tie it to your other question, if that’s Dany Heatley on the wing instead of Hossa, he’s got 12-15 goals, easy. I’d take Heatley any day over Hossa.

    “He’s a pretty smart coach that had a lot of success in Ottawa when he was there, a team that has always had a solid powerplay.”

    Yeah, a ton of success. How many times did they make it past the 2nd round in his 8 years? Once? Oh man, what a successful career. They won the president’s trophy that year. Good thing they turned all of that regular season success into something worthwhile in the playoffs.

    And sure, they had a lot of PP success during the regular season, but here are their PP numbers from the playoffs during his last four seasons there (the only numbers I can find):

    01 Playoffs: 0 for 16
    02 playoffs: 9 for 55 (16.3%, 7th)
    03 playoffs: 12 for 81 (14.8%, 9th)
    04 playoffs: 3 for 35 (8.5%, 13th, particularly embarassing because they led the league during the regular season with 21.5%).

    Now he can’t even get the regular season to work. Dump his useless ass.

    I’d say fire Pelino, but I don’t even know what he does. He is like Milton from Office Space. Go ahead and fix the glitch.

  70. “Roenick—seems he turned his game around when he stopped drinking. Not to mention blaming everyone but himself.”

    Thats what I mean. Roenick is/was arguably one of the best US born hockey players ever, Jagr is probably the best Euro player ever, and Shanny is another one of the greats and 1st time ballot HOF. Getting any of these guys to play in a system or role that is new to them because they need to play within it rather than have it based around them. Players like those guys I listed don’t want to come to terms with the fact that in order for the whole team to be successful, they have to kind of step out of the spotlight and open it up to a lesser role or a different role.

    People have come on here saying its Renney’s fault he couldn’t get those guys to give in. Its not easy to do. Its a very fine line between trying to get them to give in and eventually pissing them off. Plus Jagr will never throw his body around for 82 games just because he never has and never will. Shanny won’t because hes older and will break down. Straka won’t because once again thats not his style.

    Those guys who are the best at what they do for so long are very reluctant to change until its either too late or almost too late. Chelios still complains about his ice time and thinks he should play more, however at age 46 he has somewhat of an understanding why. Its hard to find star vets who are like Mike Modano and adapt to the coaching style when they are in their prime just to make the team better. He took a team built around him and changed his style to make the team better at other positions. Jagr and Shanny won’t do that (Jagr moreso than Shanny that is). So I don’t think we can judge Renney’s job as coach until he gets a team that is truly his own with the youth players, Dru and Gomez (both of which are in their prime), and a vet that fits the mold of the team Renney wants to build.

  71. Roenick—seems he turned his game around when he stopped drinking. Not to mention blaming everyone but himself.

    …….

    I always believed that the “handful” of players responsible for the mayhem caused in Nagano ’98 were:

    1. Roenick
    2. Tkachuk
    3. Chelios

    _Some U.S. players have been keeping late hours while in Nagano, and were spotted in local bars until the early morning hours several times in the last week. Responding on Sunday to criticism that the team was not taking the Games seriously enough, U.S. Coach Ron Wilson noted that “they’re men; I’m not going to throw a curfew at these guys. They’re the best athletes we have. They know how to take care of themselves.”

    Forward Brett Hull, one the players spotted out at a bar the night of the incident, argued earlier in the day that the players’ party image was overblown. *He added that players might have performed better if they had gone out more often.*_

    LOL

  72. “So I don’t think we can judge Renney’s job as coach until he gets a team that is truly his own with the youth players, Dru and Gomez (both of which are in their prime), and a vet that fits the mold of the team Renney wants to build.”

    or….Jagr buys into it 100%. And plays like he did the last 20 for a full 82. Without that committment, we face the same fate.

  73. or….Jagr buys into it 100%. And plays like he did the last 20 for a full 82. Without that committment, we face the same fate.

    ……..

    I’d honestly like to see a season without that “premiere star” if at all possible. I want to see what the young are made of, without Jagr’s supple dangling teat tempting them to feed off of … as opposed to hunting for their own kills. Let this team grow a real hunger for flesh. An authentic thirst for thick dark blood from the juicy veins of the East.

    Do people really want this team to grow any closer to Jagr only to have that crutch yanked out from underneath our dependant young? I CANNOT WAIT TO SEE HIM GONE. A WIN WITHOUT JAGR WILL _REALLY_ BE SOMETHING TO CELEBRATE RANGER FANS, FOR THAT IS THE REAL START OF THE NEXT GENERATION.

  74. I celebrated Rangers 94 cup fully knowing it was the Oilers 6th cup, I’d have no problem celbrating a Jags led cup but I agree this deferring to him all the time holds Rangers back…not just young guys (look at Rozival afraid to shoot all the time)….someone was at this earlier in week and i said its nothing against Jagr, in fact I respect him a lot more than I did during 90’s, he is a lot tougher than I ever thought, but this deferrence is very bad for team unless he’s playing like he did in last 20 games-nobody cares if Caps defer to AO because he’s banging it in every 5 minutes….but here I think its time to let him go…with much thanks for past three years

  75. reginald dunlop on

    so Sam’s not impressed with Dubi’s hat trick against Norway????? exactly how many career goals does Sam have in international competition???? ha ha ha……….and dont forget GUERIN from your 98 list

  76. Doodie Machetto on

    Kaspar, sounds like jealousy to me.

    Clearing his salary from the books won’t bring you back to the team, but take solace in the fact that you never left my heart.

  77. Speed Ranger on

    Salty — VERY interesting take, makes me rethink what I had assumed was just, you know, Americans on ice.

    JonnyD — agreed. Thing is, no coach gets the exact and complete team he wants. None of us get the exact and complete job we want either. It’s up to Renney and each of us to do the best he can with that. But I hear what you’re saying and I agree with you.

    And I don’t want Jags to go but Salty you are helping me prepare for it if he doesn’t return, so thanks for that too.

  78. See the thing is Jagr can’t play hard for 82 games and be healthy/ready for the playoffs. At 36 going on 37, he’s past his prime. Maybe a couple years ago you could get both, but not anymore. I know some may say thats BS, but none of us really know since we haven’t done what hes done for 17 years. None of us have been a top 2 target on a team where guys are always going after your trying to shut you down for 17 years. I’m going to assume no matter how good you are/were, it takes a physical toll on your body to the point where you just can’t do what you did before for an extended period of time. Thats why I agree we need to move on from the Jagr era and just build around what we have now or else we’ll look back and maybe Gomez and Drury will be past their primes. Nothing against Jagr, I love his heart and determination, just I don’t think his body can take the punishment for a full season + playoffs and we need to move away from that being our centerpiece.

  79. Also there is a rumor going around the Messier is open to coaching for any of the NHL teams looking for a coach. If its true, I’ll try hard not to laugh. Mark, start in junior or something then work your way up. I can’t wait to see what happens if this is true and when he tries to tell an NHL player what to do and they don’t do it, how he’ll handle that. haha.

  80. The King and Sweden into the semi finals with a 3-2 ot win over the Czech Republic, and now will face Canada. United States to play Finland tonight in a game that could have lots of fighting with what happened in their last game.

  81. Are the Rangers are stuck in mediocrity because they’ve often been able to buy a decent team but that doesn’t make a team great?

    Penguins terrible years led to Crosby, Malkin, Fleury and another big name draftee to trade for Hossa, plus they’ve drafted several other decent players. Red Wings had the Dead Wings era. Devils had terrible years in NJ and as the Rockies. Avalanche had losing years in Quebec. Plus you got two fairly recent expansion teams (Ducks and Lightning) with Cups. Hurricanes had bad years in Hartford. Even the Stars had some bad years before moving. That alone covers every cup since the Rangers won in ’94. Red Wings are the only original six team to win since Rangers and 93 Canadiens. More or less every other cup winner since the early 70s emerged after losing history and/or expansion.

    Side note: 94 Rangers benefitted from legendary performances from draft picks Leetch (9th overall selection) and Richter (28th). Plus during the season they picked up how many players that — probably — cost the team long-term in a big way. How often do those types of trades pay off in a Stanley Cup?

  82. Maybe this is a job for the crack statititions at the Journal News, but if the Pens win tonight, will this be the fastest a team has ever advanced to the Finals from the East? 13 games?

    That’s friggin sick right there.

  83. Sweden vs. Canada, Russia vs. Finland, tommorrow IIHF Men’s Ice Hockey World Championship.
    Lundqvist starting goaltender for the Swedes & Tyutin I believe is in the lineup for Russia.
    Here is the link:
    http://web.wcsn.com/index.jsp
    Also, for $4.95 you can watch the games live on the net.

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