Broken promises

119

UPDATE, 12:22 p.m.: The Rangers just announced that Michal Rozsival will play for the Czech Republic in the World Championships, joining Fedor Tyutin (Russia), Henrik Lundqvist (Sweden), and Brandon Dubinsky (USA) in the tournament. 

You’re right. I did say I’d be back with more yesterday but never returned, and for that you can blame Tom Renney, who didn’t finish up his exit interviews until late and thus didn’t meet with us scribes until shortly before dinnertime.

And then for me there was a newspaper deadline, and kids to feed…and let me guess, no one’s interested in my excuses.

But with a night to sleep on it, there’s still no shortage of questions surrounding the Rangers heading into the offseason, particularly in the wake of Jaromir Jagr’s quasi-declaration that “he wanted to be back with the Rangers.”:http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080507/SPORTS01/805070384/-1/SPORTS.

It was certainly the most light Jagr has shed on the subject to date, but there’s still a long way to go before a deal is struck. For one, having never been a free agent before, Jagr may need to be dazzled by a contract offer from Glen Sather. And given Jagr’s age and the team’s salary cap constraints, Sather might not be in much mood for dazzling.

Plus, while Jagr saying he only wants a two-year deal could be perceived as a break for the Rangers, only a one-year contract can be used for the one-time only 35-and-over contract that was used this year for Brendan Shanahan.

Finally, even if Jagr indicated yesterday he wanted to stay in New York, that doesn’t mean he still doesn’t have questions about his role on this team moving forward. And while Renney yesterday said Jagr would return as the team’s No. 1 forward, that doesn’t mean the player is going to completely love everything he hears. So in other words, it’s complicated.

Meanwhile, some other thoughts:

<li>When Brendan Shanahan said yesterday that he thinks he can still be a productive NHL player, I asked him if he would be open to having a different role with the team next year. Because in my mind — and apparently in Renney’s as well since the coach touched on the same subject later — the only way the Rangers can consider bringing Shanahan back is if the veteran agrees not only to less money, but also less ice time. Here was the player’s response:

“I’ve never been a player to complain. I have always done what the coaches have asked me to do. I’ve always tried to set that example, long before I came to New York. But I do feel the eyes of our younger players on me, so I feel a great responsibility in being a professional with all things that come toward me in an NHL season.

“Sometimes the biggest thing you can do for your team is sometimes step back. It’s happened to me this year. You can talk to Tom and talk to anybody and whatever they’ve ever asked me to do I have always done with great determination.”

If Shanahan would agree to a diminished role — fourth line maybe, with most of his ice time on specialty teams — the idea of bringing him back no longer seems so absurd. But even then, a lot has to hinge on whether he can return to the player he was before his injury on Jan. 5. Because if he can’t, it may be time to say goodbye.

<li>When Tom Renney was asked what the difference was in the Penguins series, the coach predictably pointed to himself, specifically when it came to the Rangers’ shortcomings on specialty teams.

“Any honorable coach looks at himself,” Renney said. “Could I have been a difference? I’m on Page 2 of that little novel.”

Here’s what I’ll say about Renney. I know many fans are divided on him, and that’s fine. For all I know, he might not be the best tactician to lead this team. But the mere fact that the coach will recognize his own failures and strive to improve them is something that shouldn’t be taken for granted.

Because there’s a lot of coaches out there who are not only wrong in certain areas, but who are not even willing to recognize as much.

There’s a word they use to describe coaches like that: unemployed.

Renney, meanwhile, isn’t going anywhere.

<li>As for the next generation of Blueshirts, I asked Renney how many players out of Hartford he thought could compete for a job next year.

The coach said five, although he wouldn’t specify who. I would have to assume one is Lauri Korpikoski, who introduced himself to the NHL with flair on Sunday. But don’t count on Bobby Sanguinetti. Renney wouldn’t rule the former No. 1 draft pick, but he did say the team would more likely err on the side of giving Sanguinetti another year of seasoning.

OK, that’s all for now.

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119 Comments

  1. MSG NY had some comments from Avery that sounded a much stronger tone of humility. I hope he is back next season.

    Sam, did you get a chance to talk to him?

  2. Repost:

    The best way to look at what we need to do is as follows. As an organization we do not owe anyone anything. We need to do what is best for the team in moving forward. What have to do what makes sense. If we know that there are not good options for next year, then I can see signing Jagr for a year or two tops. But there is no questions that we need to part ways with Shanny and Straka. I am sorry, and I respect those guys a lot, but I want this team to change direction. The penguins have a core of young great talent, and every year that we sign these older vets is another year that we don’t have a core of good young talent. I am not saying that we don’t need a veteran presence on the team, because we do, but we have Gomez and Drury now. Those are two veteran players, that are not old and both have a lot of leadership qualities and have won cups. I invision Gomez being our number one center next year, with Drury being number two and dubinsky being number three. We need a goal scoring winger to play with Gomez. Someone who can match his speed and find openings. We all said so many times that watching Gomez skate was a thing of beauty, only problem was the guy would fly up the ice gain the zone and be all by his lonesome, and it was pretty damn sad. Someone said yesterday that Avery was faster than Gomez, and although Avery is pretty fast, Gomez is absolutely faster. I never fully appreciated what that guy can do until I have watched him more closely as a Ranger. He had a great year for us. Best Ranger in the regular season by far. Goofy grin and all.

  3. I will take back needing to part ways with Shanny if he;

    A. Was hurt at the end of the season and in the playoffs and that is why he seemed so so so slow and didn’t take the body and was really ineffective, except for on the penalty kill, and can completely heal and be quicker and take the body.

    B. Accept fourth line minutes and a much much reduced role on the time.

    C. If we don’t sign Jagr and we do sign a legit winger for Gomez.

    I DO NOT see the need to sign both players.

  4. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Would it be safe to assume that the only way we sign Jagr is via signing Straka and/or vice versa? I think that added caveat makes signing Jagr less attractive. Jagr, on his own, would be a good $5million signing (almost his cap-hit this past year) but adding up to $10-$12 million with Straka just becomes too much of a burden for an aging team which may also have to fill the voids of Avery, Shanahan, and most certainly Rozsival. I can’t stand the people saying Rozsival should come back for $4-$6million. I would pay Rozsival league minimum and have him play the role as 7th defensman, he was that bad the last 50 games of the year.

  5. Guys I don’t know what to think…
    I agree with Nasty that we do have great Vets in Gomer and Drury…and they are the future of this team…
    Shanny on the 4th line with PP and PK time is fine with me…but JJ as our number one forward…I like him alot and want him back but I also want to see the organization cement there commitment to youth…
    That being said, and I know it was only one game but, Korpikoski looked really good, lots of speed and his goal was really nice…will it translate to a roster spot and can he do it for a season…time will tell…but I liked what I saw…
    I also would like to see Animisov get a shot next season…the guy is huge at 6′ 4″. I know he is also a center but these are things I don’t have to work out…I just want to see him get a shot…

    Guys a good read on the Ranger woes/season…
    http://hockeyrodent.com/RODENT.HTM

  6. True Fans I agree Rozi has to go…or be a 5-7 d-man…it seems he has a decent game, then tanks…its terrible…
    I’d love to see Ivan Baranka up here as well as Sanguinetti, Sauer as well as Liffiton.
    I’m not saying that all these guys should be on the team next season but are these guys as bad as Malik, Backman,or even Rozi…I can’t believe they would be…

  7. If we had a legit scoring winger to play with Gomez on the first line and had the cap room to have a great second line featuring Dubinsky and Jagr and someone else it would be a great 1, 2 punch. But it is just not realistic.

  8. “Shanny Lite” over “TOP LINE JAGR” any day of the week.

    It’s dawning on me at this very moment that next season *could be even more frustrating than this season.*

    I just really hope Jagr doesn’t come back. It’s scary how much control he has over everything, and it’s scary that NYR seems so eager to have him back, and even moreso that his showing strong interest. I mean, after this weak season and then strong playoffs, Jagr is left with nearly ZERO determination to bust his ass during the reg season.

    And Sam, I’m sorry but I have to call major league BS about Renney being this stand up coach who’s willing to “take responsibility” for the PIT series, especially due to the the failing PP. Can we please not pretend that this was a big surprise in the series??? Renney had 82 games to fix the power play. An entire season, and nothing of substance changed. It was the Jagr show. Now Renney comes out and says “PIT was my fault, I should have had a better PP”?? It seems like he trying to play it off like he didn’t fully realize it was going to be an issue, while it was THE blind spot all season.

  9. and he didn’t change up the power play at all during the series, he kept sending the same guys out there. I think it would have been a very different series if Prucha was playing on the 2nd line and on the 2nd pp unit the entire series instead of shanny. not saying prucha would have necessarily torn it up, but a good coach would have recognized right away that shanny was in trouble and only played him on the fourth line and with limited pk time (as lets face it he wasnt that good on the pk and his play did cost us a few goals against on the pk)

    and as much as i like that shanny implied he would be willing to accept a lesser role. i heard the same from messier and others beforehand and i don’t trust renney not to pull a kid off a line during a close game and put shanny there b/c of his gut, he has already done that when shanny was supposedly on the 4th line

  10. The coaching needs to focus SOLELY on the Power play. Get it to 20% and we’re a shoe in for the ECF in 2009.

  11. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Agreed, Salty. Every other team will be looking to improve this off-season and with Huet available (after a strong playoff campaign) who knows which teams will be better via free agency. The Rangers have too many holes right now to even predict whether they’ll be a playoff contender yet.

  12. Yes there is. It’s like me saying, as long as Malkin/Crosby stay in Pittsburgh, they’re a shoe-in to win the cup sometime in their careers.
    This team has solid goaltending and despite feelings of “mediocre defense,” the team was still 3rd in shots-against in the NHL, despite Rozsival, Malik, Backman and Tyutin’s constant turnovers. All this team needs is a physical d and an effective power play.

  13. Mike from previous thread you advocate trading for Kovalchuk where you offer besides our number 1

    Paranteau – career minoir leaguer
    Hutch – same as above + free agent
    Wikkman – dubious future
    Potter – the best of the bunch but that doesn’t say much

    and you call these our best prospects. would you at least take the Atl GM out to dinner before you **** him.

  14. To trade for Kovalchuk they are going to want good youth, the names they are going to want are going to be Staal, Dubinsky, Dawes, Callahan, Sanguinetti, maybe Prucha.

  15. repost

    Foo fighters were on msg last night. a lot of their songs are on Ranger warmup so served as painful reminder.
    last year was more painful, we were much closer to winning that series last yr than this one.

    no to Hossa – years he wants and huge $ he’ll be mid 30’s or more when contract ends just like Drury will be. we’ll need money for our own guys in a couple of years.

    so 1-2 year contracts are the way to go.

    Tyutin’s was too long for what he’s giving us.

    Shanny is done great guy and great hall of famer. I hope his full salary including bonus hit this year.

    Malik is obvious

    Can see 1 of Rozy or Mara here. would like to trade one of small but talented forwards (in a package) for a good hard nosed d man. Can’t believe someone mentioned Souray. His salary and years is a non starter here.

    we need size and skill on forwards too. even 6’1” would be an improvement. maybe we’ll sign Dupuis. just kidding I think but he is pretty solid.

  16. any trade to get kovalchuk would take the russian and probably staal and then first round picks so thats not going to happen

    and just b/c pitt has malkin and crosby doesnt mean they are ever going to win a cup. this is probably their year (as they will lose a bunch of players after the season)and I don’t think they are good enough to beat the west

  17. Staal and Dubinsky should be untouchable. But if the right deal came along, you would have to think that trading Dawes, Prucha, Callahan, even maybe Sanguenetti could be a realistic option. To me, a trade involving some sort of combination of the above players is realistic when you are talking about a player the age and caliber of Kovalchuk. The guy is going to be a top 5 goal scorer in the league for years to come.

  18. Nasty = don’t think Atl would do that deal. other than Sanguinetti you’re offering 3rd line players for a top 10 in the league in his prime. quality trumps quantity every time.

  19. Dawes and Prucha, given the opportunity, can both be 2nd line players. I definitely believe that. I am sure a deal would include some picks and whatnot too, but I am sure we have a package that we could offer that doesn’t involve Staal and Dubinsky, that they would go for.

  20. It is kind of funny that we are even talking this much about a trade for Kovalchuk. Yeah, it would be great, but there has not been even a rumor about that even being a possibility. I guess it is just a bunch of wishful thinking by a bunch of guys whose team just got bounced from the playoffs. Ha.

  21. The five kids from the Pack with the best shot at competing for a job next season: Korpikoski, Byers, Moore, Baranka, Potter. Renney might have played coy, but it’s pretty obvious if you’ve followed Hartford. Not to mention that those are the 5 players who got callups during the course of this season…

  22. Was the last playoff game the first time Korpi saw any time in the NHL? Or was he called up earlier in the season or last year?

  23. Let’s not worry about Kovalchuk until at least the trade deadline or next summer. He should be a priority if he goes UFA in July 2009.

  24. Dellapina says to expect the Rangers to go after guys like Streit and Smith in the off-season via free agency.

    Streit would be good and can QB the power play…Smith is a little slow, no thanks.

  25. Nasty, that was Korpi’s FIRST NHL game :)

    I like that he actually shot the puck, instead of being really nervous with him. That’s a great way to start your NHL career..right in the most intense part of the year! It can make or break a player, and I think it gave him the confidence to say, “Oh yea, well I scored in my first NHL game against the best team in the east!”

  26. Dellapina also said that Avery had a heart attack and then tried to justify it by making up some BS story. I am not going to read anything by him anymore. It is one thing to report something you believed to be true and then find out it wasn’t and say that is what happened. But to then go and try to give it credibility is just horse shit.

  27. kovalchuk is signed through 2010 and no atlanta is not going to trade him at all until right at the deadline that year so its just wishful thinking. gaborik is available that year too.

    of those five hartford players none of the forwards are better than 3rd liners maybe korpedo has more upside to be a 2nd liner, but our system is just so stocked with 3rd and 4th line players. staal and dubinsky should be untouchable and the russians and sanguinetti should only be moved for an truly elite yougn player but i would package any of our other young guys to get a winger or to move up in the draft and get a good punishing defenseman

  28. my bad gaborik is free after next season hed be a great player to play with gomez

  29. Oh my bad, I read nhlnumbers wrong. Gaborik/Havlat are glass, and Gaborik as no post-season presence.

  30. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Pavel, are you sure about that? “*Gaborik as no post-season presence.*”??

    Before this year’s playoffs 0’fer, he had 12 goals and 21 points in 23 post-season games. That’s pretty good. I didn’t pay attention to him or the Wild this post-season, so I don’t know why he only had 1 point in 6 games, but before this year his playoff stats are respectable to say the least.

  31. Speed Ranger on

    Hey. One of you fabulous regulars posted a link to a photo of Crosby and a Senator — down on the ice near the boards during the Ottawa series.

    I know it’s a long shot, but if you could repost w/o going to any trouble I’d appreciate it. Thanks!

  32. wait on kovalchuk. Trading for him isn’t worth it for what Atlanta would want. I’m pretty sure he wants out and playing in a place like NY with the potential competitiveness and youth we have as role players, we have a good shot at luring him here. Plus with Gomez, you know you’ll have someone to feed him the puck. Also there is our pointman on the PP. Not saying its going to happen but we need to heavily pursue him.

    Someone mentioned the fact he doesn’t play defense last time I posted the idea. I’ve seen him play pretty solid D the last two years for a guy that has always been offensive minded. Even Jagr’s D was better the last 2 years and he was known as a guy that never got back. Plus if put with the right guys, he won’t have to worry about it and can just focus on scoring and hard forechecking since he is an aggressive guy who hits a decent amount too.

  33. I believe Gaborik played with an injured hip and had surgery like a week ago. They said that was mostly causing his down performance.

  34. Guys, Kovalchuk is wishful thinking…Atlanta has to sell tix too you know, and I doubt they are gonna give him up for untested prospects

    And Dellapina is a tool…

  35. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Parros, those jerseys don’t look so “re-designed.” haha

  36. “Plus, while Jagr saying he only wants a two-year deal could be perceived as a break for the Rangers, only a one-year contract can be used for the one-time only 35-and-over contract that was used this year for Brendan Shanahan.”

    Can someone explain this to me?

  37. all of shannys bonuses (like a couple mill) will be counted in the 2008-2009 salary cap so shannys cap hit this year was like 3 million or so. but this only applies to one year deals

  38. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Sounds like incentive based contracts can only be 1-year deals. Jagr, expecting more than a 1-year deal, could not have it structured using incentives (e.g., 30+ goals, # games played, playoff rounds won, etc…). The bonuses, in theory, motivate the player but can also be deferred to the cap hit for the following year. Basically, Jagr is expecting a straight up $7million per year, for 2 years, deal or something near that.

  39. The five who will probably battle for playing time with the Rangers who were with Hartford last season will be: Korpikoski, Dane Byers, Greg Moore, Ivan Baranka, Artem Anisimov and Hugh Jessiman (longshot).
    I think Byers could take Hollweg’s place on the 4th line LW spot. I think Sjostrom will move up to take Straka’s role as a PKer and 2nd/3rd liner. And I think Korpikoski will definitely play a role at some point with his speed. Parenteau isn’t going to be in the organization so I think he’s not an option.

  40. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Pete, according to blueshirtbulletin.com, the Rangers absorved about $3.8million (after bonuses) of Shanny’s contract as a hit against this current years cap and an additional $1.5million will be the hit on next year’s.

  41. Rangerrotty on

    What about these guys? All free agents this summer:

    Position $ Current Team Age
    Jason Williams Center $1,600,000 CHI 26
    Brad Stuart Defense $3,500,000 DET 27
    Brian Campbell Defense $1,750,000 SJ 28
    John-Michael Liles Defense $1,400,000 COL 26
    Mark Streit Defense $600,000 MONT 29
    Ryan Malone Left Wing $1,450,000 PITT 27
    Michael Ryder Right Wing $2,950,000 MONT 27
    Adam Hall Right Wing $525,000 PITT 26

  42. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Rotty, Adam Hall? haha. I think Dupuis is also a UFA!
    Ryder, Malone, Streit, and Liles have all been hot topics of convo. Brian Campbell won’t get less than $6million, do the Rangers want to spend that? How old are Williams and Stuart?

    Salty, you would expect Gomez to be invited so that is puzzling. As far as Drury, I’m pretty sure with his Ab-tear (‘rib injury’) he wouldn’t be doing anything for awhile. Plus, I think Team USA likes to invite good players, or at least that was their policy in the past…I don’t know. haha.

  43. Rangerrotty on

    “Rotty, Adam Hall? haha. I think Dupuis is also a UFA!
    Ryder, Malone, Streit, and Liles have all been hot topics of convo. Brian Campbell won’t get less than $6million, do the Rangers want to spend that? How old are Williams and Stuart?”

    Williams = 26
    Stuart = 27

    I think Campbell is worth it. Stuart…ehh… I know Hall is a stretch, but he is young and cheap. Malone would be fantastic. Ryder may even be able to play with Gomer.

  44. Speed Ranger on

    Salty – not sure but I think there is an upper age limit, world championship.

  45. How can you replace an 80+ scorer who led your team in points in the playoffs (win or lose)?

    You can’t just throw in Korpikoski or sign some bum and expect to finish in the top half of the conference, let alone the division.

    When you let guys like Jagr walk because you’re “committed to youth” you become the Devils. And if that’s not a team showing signs of rock bottom, I don’t know what is.

  46. Thanks for the explanation. F Dupuis. He decided to start playing the second the Rangers traded him. Kind of like that guy that in Carolina who got ROCKED this past season.

  47. dont think there is an upper age limit as brodeur decided not to play this year but he could have. hall was terrible for us and cant skate…no thanks.

    if sjostrom is on our 2nd line we are gonna be in for a long season next year. campbell is good but not 6+mill for the next 6 seasons good.

    of the defensive free agents id take a look at orpik and maybe liles if he will take less

  48. only 7 million to keep Jagr for 2 more years? That’s a great idea. I do not get all the complaining about this.

    Would you people rather have the Overrated Hossa at around 10 million for 6 or 7 years? And handicap our team with a worthless salary cap? He’s not that good and doesn’t deserve that money.

  49. the devils let players go who still had great years left b/c they were cheap (neidermyer, gomez and rafalski). but jagr leaving this year is not like the devils letting scott neidermyer leave. jagr is past his prime and letting him go would be the rangers deciding it is time to stop building their entire team around a fading player and instead focus on the two centers they signed last year for 7 mill a year

  50. Drury and Gomez at their best right now are still not even in Jagr’s league if he plays at 50%. They can’t change the game like he can.

    Plus, I don’t see the Rangers building “around” Jagr.

    We put the SECOND YOUNGEST team on the ice this year. Only the Sharks had a team younger than ours. How are we building around him? He’s our #1 forward. Unless you can bring in a top 5 player, he can not be replaced. He’s still a top 10 player in the league — few guys can change the game like he can.

    We lose Jagr and don’t fill his shoes with some HUGE, we won’t make the playoffs.

    YOu need a big time player to win. Every team has one. If you let your big time player go. You’re just an average team with average players… just like the Devils.

  51. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Noonan, I’d rather not put a penny more into Jagr than we have these past years ($4.84 million, i believe). The only reason to keep him is because he has shown he can be successful in the playoffs and paying Jagr to get 70-80 points is easier than trying to replace those points. That said, who even knows if Jagr wants to come back? And to get Jagr back, won’t the Rangers have to offer Straka a contract too? That’ll be another $4.5-$6million…talk about baggage!

    Chris Drury, 2002 Olympic team, 6 games, 0 points. Ewww, CLUTCH! Zero All-Star invitations. Calder Trophy winner (with 20 goals, 24 assists). On his past 3 teams, all playoff contenders and fairly good teams, he has been a combined -13 (-11, +1 [Buffalo], -3 [NYR]). Can people please stop with this guy! We paid him money, I get it and its done so there’s nothing else to say. But he’s scored how many “clutch” goals? I remember one against us, not for us. Thanks.

  52. “Drury and Gomez at their best right now are still not even in Jagr’s league if he plays at 50%.”

    Laughable. Jagr refused to keep up with Gomez’s pace. Drury is an enigma. I still don’t see how he fits in NY @$7M besides a jersey seller. I’m starting to get over that, but don’t even bother saying Drury and Jagr in the same sentence, that’s just a joke.

    “He’s still a top 10 player in the league—few guys can change the game like he can.”

    _Perhaps_ Jagr “can” change a given game, but it means cock because for whatever reason, he _usually doesn’t_.

    “We lose Jagr and don’t fill his shoes with some HUGE, we won’t make the playoffs.”

    Who gives a shit? Are you already thirsty for another 2nd round exit? Selfish. Disgusting. You already admitted you have a Jagr crush. I can’t wait for the day he’s gone and NYR is permitted to fully embrace a TEAM game where coaches coach and players play.

  53. Pete, I agree with all the rebuilding. We have to let Shanny go-unless he takes a lite Teemu-like contract. Straka probably won’t take less money so he’s gone and abominations like Backman will be as well. People like Rozsival may demand too much for what it’s worth, etc. I could name 10 players who should and will probably go to make cap room.

    But Do you think Dubinsky has all his success without Jagr? It’s not like we’re keeping this guy into his 40s. 2 more years, then byebye it’s been great thanks for the ride. He lead the team in points that struggled to score and if you go to NHL.com, you’ll see he is still leading the playoffs in points. He has something left and the young guys, especially Dubinsky will evolve around this guy. There are some things you can’t verbally teach players.

    Try not to be so symbolic about this ‘rebuilding’ phrase. Replace Jagr with any kid from the farm or a mediocre player and the Rangers wouldn’t have made the playoffs. Rebuilding would be re-signing Jagr for two measily years and not going after someone like Hossa who wants mad money and mad years.

  54. Salty, thanks for referencing my man crush (no homo) on Jagr.. very funny.

    I don’t think we need to go back into a whole rebuilding process. We’re still better than the teams in our division. I doubt the Pens can hold on to Hossa, which makes them a much different team.

    While we don’t need a quick fix, we would definitely need a prolific scorer to fill Jagr’s shoes.

    Maybe we’ll all be wrong and the young boys will become men next year. Eventually, they’ll have to.

  55. Jagr is a BARGAIN at 4.84 million. What the hell is wrong with you?

    “And to get Jagr back, won’t the Rangers have to offer Straka a contract too? That’ll be another $4.5-$6million…talk about baggage!”

    I don’t think Jagr said this was the case. Straka must take less money wherever he goes and be avoided by the Rangers at all costs.

  56. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    “*There are some things you can’t verbally teach players.*”
    Yea… like hustling!!

    But, apparently, you can’t teach that to old players either as Jagr admitted to slacking off during the regular season. Great example for Dubinsky.

  57. Two more years before those boys we need to rebuild around will possibly be ready for the NHL. That’s why 2 more years for Jagr makes sense he’s not going to cost that much money and NOBODY is going to fill his shoes at RW next season.

  58. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Noonan, Straka already said his decision is based on what Jagr does!!!

  59. “But, apparently, you can’t teach that to old players either as Jagr admitted to slacking off during the regular season. Great example for Dubinsky.”

    HAH that’s a good one. At the age of 36 you rather he give it his all every game and come out like Shanny this year in the post-season? That’d be really productive.

    Jagr and Dubinsky clicked quite well, actually.

  60. Noonan

    “Two more years before those boys we need to rebuild around will possibly be ready for the NHL. That’s why 2 more years for Jagr makes sense he’s not going to cost that much money and NOBODY is going to fill his shoes at RW next season.”

    …and the power play will suck for two more years also!!

  61. “Noonan, Straka already said his decision is based on what Jagr does!!!”

    LOL I care lots I want him GONE. The quesiton is: is Jagr’s decision based on what Straka does? I don’t think that’s the case.

  62. “…and the power play will suck for two more years also!!”

    Jay, don’t blame the PP on Jagr. This is on the defense and Renney. When Paul Mara is QBing the powerplay in the postseason and it isn’t due to injury, you have defensive issues.

  63. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Noonan, Jagr’s the captain. You’re the one talking about him teaching Dubinsky on the ice, non-verbally. Can’t have one part without the other, and Jagr admitted he didn’t work hard this year. Your own arguments are self-defeating, deal with it.

  64. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Noonan, I think you completely just discredited yourself with your PP argument. It’s “system” has problems, but any idiot who hasn’t watched Rozsival dish a pass to Jagr when there was an OBVIOUS shooting lane is blinded by 69(minus 1) love. The PP failed mostly because every player on the ice wanted to give Jagr the puck. Blame it on Renney, blame in Jaromir. But his presence there handicap’d the team’s ability to make smart decisions and caused them to shoot the puck less. Fact.

  65. “Can’t have one part without the other, and Jagr admitted he didn’t work hard this year. Your own arguments are self-defeating, deal with it.”

    I know the truth hurts and you can’t get over it–like most the people who dislike him for being honest. I like that he actually admitted it because he was a BEAST nearing the end of the season and everyone knew what was going on.

    Aside from goaltenders, I don’t know one player besides maybe Ovechkin who gives it his all every game. Do you know how tiring a season is? Good thing A08 is young. Now name one 36-year old who gives it his all every game? They usually move them to the 2nd line so they don’t see so much ice time.

    Jagr gives it his all every game and he turns into Peter Forsberg and/or is invisible in the playoffs. ANSWER THIS QUESTION PLEASE: How is that productive to winning a Stanley Cup?

    Quit harping on this issue you are the one self-defeating any of your arguments.

  66. Noonan,

    Jay, don’t blame the PP on Jagr. This is on the defense and Renney. When Paul Mara is QBing the powerplay in the postseason and it isn’t due to injury, you have defensive issues.

    I do blame Jagr. Renney also (and Pearn) for not stepping in and running it properly early on. He is on the ice for 1 min. of PP time (early in the season it was 1:15-1:25) where no shots were taken unless Jagr took them. Jagr dictated that PP thery which included having the D not shoot.

  67. “The PP failed mostly because every player on the ice wanted to give Jagr the puck. Blame it on Renney, blame in Jaromir. But his presence there handicap’d the team’s ability to make smart decisions and caused them to shoot the puck less. Fact.”

    How did I discredit myself? It looks like you just stuck up for Rozsival, the player you called out for being so terrible.

    Is Jagr the coach telling the players ‘IM ONLY ONE ALLOWED TO SHOOT ON PP! MEMEMEME PASS TO ME! IF NOT I TELL COACH AND YOU GET SUSPENDED ONE GAME!’ no it is the coaching system and players who spoon-feed Jagr that was much of the problem.

  68. “I do blame Jagr. Renney also (and Pearn) for not stepping in and running it properly early on. He is on the ice for 1 min. of PP time (early in the season it was 1:15-1:25) where no shots were taken unless Jagr took them. Jagr dictated that PP thery which included having the D not shoot.”

    So it’s Jagr’s fault the defense didn’t shoot. Got it.

  69. It doesn’t matter WHY they don’t shoot. It matters THAT they don’t shoot. If Renney can’t get through to this guy that his PP strategy blows – then it is Renney’s fault. If Jagr can’t accept that his PP strategy blows – he shouldn’t be the “C”. The “C” does what is best for the team.

  70. So it’s Jagr’s fault the defense didn’t shoot. Got it.

    EXACTLY

  71. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Noonan, please copy and paste where I defended Rozsival? hahahaha. Thanks guy.

    And, Noonan, I don’t know if you have watched enough games but Avery and Prucha use to get the puck and shoot on the powerplay (when they saw powerplay time)…guess who STOPPED seeing powerplay time? Aaron Ward (thank goodness he’s gone) also liked to shoot on the powerplay, where’s he playing?

  72. Jay your logic is flawed beyond belief. Young players and irresponsible defenders wanting to spoon-feed Jagr the puck isn’t Jagr’s problem.

    I’m the one mad at players giving up shots to predictably pass to Jagr. Maybe Jagr should have stood up to Renney because he’s the C and said something. Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t but it is the coach’s job to fix these things. Renney failed.

  73. Tony from AZ on

    How come we never have a body in front of the goalie on our power play ?
    Seems to me a big fat body screening the goalie would help. Guys like Mara, Orr, hell even Malik could give the goalie fits.
    I don’t know, I’m just as frustrated as the next guy.

  74. hey Noonan, get a clue. the PP was run the way JAGR wanted it run. there was a public discussion by Renney and jagr about that. renney wanted shots from the point and traffic in front, a basic PP. but jagr said, and I quote, “that is stupid”

    Jagr wanted just what they did, which was rosival deferred to jagr, when rosival had a wide open shot, he would instead pass to jagr at the halfboards so he could get cheap assists. it was a perimeter passing disaster. a few fancy goals, but mostly game-costing failure.

    also, you don’t seem to get it about how Jagr demanded his own posse like straka, malik, rosival etc

    also you don’t seem to know that jagr was paid 8.3 mill last year and he no longer will get almost half of it from the Wash Caps.

  75. Noonan

    If it were just young players you have a point – but it is not. It is Rozy and others also.

    How else can you explain Jagr at the half boards and Rozy up top, Jagr passes up top and Rozy passes back – add in a D-to-D pass. Rinse, repeat for 40-50 seconds. All year long we saw this and it cost us many games.

  76. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Tony from AZ, his name is Chris Drury. I thought we had a second guy, with a new technique (let’s call it “The Avery”) used for 5-on-3 situations. But Sean was slapped on the wrist and sent to timeout for that. Good question though, not even any big tough wingers to get in the crease a la Holmstrom or Smyth style.

  77. You didn’t defend Jagr my bad. You blamed Jagr for Rozsival not shooting. fallacy of logic?)

    “And, Noonan, I don’t know if you have watched enough games but Avery and Prucha use to get the puck and shoot on the powerplay (when they saw powerplay time)…guess who STOPPED seeing powerplay time? Aaron Ward (thank goodness he’s gone) also liked to shoot on the powerplay, where’s he playing?”

    That is an interesting conspiracy theory! I’ll give you that. Maybe they were all afraid of losing their jobs for shooting the puck on the PP.

    How much playing time did Prucha see outside of the Wolfpack last season? I know Avery failed to crack 60 games again, is he a top PP guy? BTW I recall Avery seeing some time up until that devils series. I think Renney got mad at the face-guarding thing with Brodeur.

    Aaron Ward got traded for sucking and calling out Jagr (I heard).

  78. “Jagr is a BARGAIN at 4.84 million.”

    300lbs of sand at $6 is a BARGAIN as well, but is it needed?

    Look, if youre worried about staying mediocre for the time being, go throw money at Jagr and hope he decides to show up a few nights out of the year. If you want to build a TEAM with solid values from the CORE up, you tell Jagr “thanks for everything” and you make him a VERY lowball, borderline insult offer to see just how much of a Ranger he really is. Dare him to stay. I think the single most important thing here is that our kids grow up on the work ethic of guys like Gomez, Drury and Lundqvist. We have an opportunity to change the image of the New York Rangers right now, from lazy, overpaid, underachieving veterans, to young hardnosed, hard working “grind out the win” team that *does not tolerate anything less than 100%*.

    Jagr has zero incentive to produce next season if we sign him. He had all the incentive in the world this season to trigger his option year and he fell WAY short. Chew on that for a minute.

    Don’t you guys realize how massive of a joke the Rangers are in the hockey world? Telling Jagr to take a hike right now is a GIANT step in the right direction. He is training wheels for our fledgling team, the sooner he is gone, the sooner our boys find out what it takes to win without him.

  79. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Noonan, I believe Ward called out Jagr for not working hard enough, not earning the “C” on his chest, and disagreeing on their PP strategies. It happened in Tampa, Ward was yelling at Jagr (I think for the PP) and Jagr was yelling at Ward to “worry about your defense.”

    Avery saw powerplay time early on as a Ranger (e.g. last year). The only time he now sees is 5-on-3 or when the Rangers have several PPs back to back and the main 6 guys are tired.

    Prucha had PP time his first year, and I believe he 15-17 PP goals. His PP time dropped drastically last year.

    The inference is that guys who shoot clearly don’t mesh with Jagr’s strategy…are they purposely demoted because Jagr complains? I don’t know. But it’s clear that this year, Jagr’s PP strategy didn’t work. This year, I don’t even remember any of the open-net slam dunk type goals that Nylander, Straka, and Jagr would set each other up for the 2 years prior.

  80. I don’t know about that “that’s stupid” remark I didn’t hear of it.

    As for Jagr demanding his own Posse, is Jagr the GM? Straka was good on the Devils, so was Malik on Vancouver, and so was Rozsival.

  81. I just don’t think we can blame the PP on Jagr based on conspiracy theories. I’ll leave it at that. I agree it was centered on him too much and players were force-feeding him all the time, but isn’t that on the coach? If Renney is giving in to these so-called ‘demands’ and telling his players they can’t shoot it must be all about Jagr then he is SOFT and needs to go.

    He couldn’t even figure out his lines 70 games into the season how do we expect him to figure out the powerplay?

  82. and while jagr helped dubinsky, dubinsky definitely still passes to him way too much to the point where his own scoring has not yet developed, thats why i want to see dubinsky play without jagr.

    you sign jagr it pretty much means you have to at least sign straka and maybe even rozsival.

    renney does not have the balls to stand up to jagr so jagr is gonna be the one telling dubinsky what to do on even strength and the pp.

    and i dont think its that unreasonable to think that prucha could get at least 25 goals if he was playing on the 1st line with gomez and on the top pp unit and in overtime. its not like jagr scored 50 goals this season. and part of the problem why we had such problems scoring the whole season is that renney kept switching up the lines to find a center that jagr liked.

  83. Noonan

    “..If Renney is giving in to these so-called ‘demands’ and telling his players they can’t shoot it must be all about Jagr then he is SOFT and needs to go.”

    1) Nobody ever said Renney told the other guys not to shoot.
    2) Maybe Jagr is just a whining child when he doesn’t get his way and Renney needs to balance that with coaching an entire team.

  84. It honestly is churning my stomach to imagine even 1 more year of Jagr, let alone multiple years. CHURNING MY STOMACH THAT IT COULD ACTUALLY HAPPEN.

  85. So Jagr dictates players giving up shots because he is a puck hog and controls the team. I’ll have to look into this.

  86. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    Salty, I doubt it. I believe Jagr is sly in his words, he’s smarter and a little more introspective in what he says than we’re led to believe. Example, last year, when Lundqvist made the mistake of passing to Drury, who setup Briere for the goal-line stop that Lundqvist was forced to make Jagr said something like ‘Hank, he can pass to Drury next year, not this year.’ After Lundqvist was nominated for the Vezina this year, he said “It was my defense. We’ll see what he does next year.”

    I really think that he’s already made his plans and moving on. Heck, 2 months ago he even said “I know what I’m going to do” but that he was going to wait until the end of the season to finalize his decisions. We’ll see, but I doubt he’ll be back. But as much as Jagr has complicated the offensive chemistry of this team’s PP, his 15 playoff points (if the Rangers get that far) and even his 25 goals and 71 points in the regular season won’t be easily replaced.

  87. “..his 15 playoff points (if the Rangers get that far) and even his 25 goals and 71 points in the regular season won’t be easily replaced.”

    Not easily but certainly possible.

  88. ”..his 15 playoff points (if the Rangers get that far) and even his 25 goals and 71 points in the regular season won’t be easily replaced.”

    nor should it be easy… they should fricking grind it out….

    Rangers minus Jagr, I think people would be pleasantly surprised as the season progressed.

  89. and look at philly, with gagne out all year they didnt have any elite offensive players and they are still in the playoffs. their young kids stepped up as did two former rangers in Knuble and Umberger (a kid himself who sather refused to sign). maybe prucha or dawes could actually become legit scorers if they were given a chance.

  90. Rangers do not need Straka, Rozsival and Malik. So, is Jagr staying with his fellow countryman out?

  91. I would like to see JJ back but let me add this…
    If Jagr really wanted to stay in NY he very easily could have…all he had to do was score 40 goals or have 84 points…so if he had worked harder in the regular season…just a little harder actually, he would have automatically been a Ranger next season…end of story.
    But as we all know he didn’t so…now the Rangers and Jagr are faced with this decision…
    Regardless I agree that a true youth movement has to leave players like Hossa out of the picture…and focus on keeping players who influence the youth, like Jagr. However the problem here is that a precident was set by signing Gomez and Drury to huge deals…and Jagrs numbers are better than both of those players so obviously he’s gonna want more money. The key to all this is that while Jagrs numbers are good they still aren’t near the top…he was 35th on the points list…and to me that is just not worth huge money and for the record neither are the contracts that were handed to Gomez or Drury…but that is over and done now…
    but Jagr is still gonna look at those 2 players and think he’s worth big money…
    In my book the only Ranger player to deserve the big money was Hank. Even though he had a tough season with personal/ family issues…

  92. czechthemout!!!!! on

    So much for changes.Well it looks like the geritol brigade is comming back next year.They will be a year older,a year slower,a year softer and will miss the playoffs.As I said before,I would only bring back Jagr at 10mil for two years.Every one else should start enjoying their retirement.
    What will piss me off is if Straka,Shanny,Rozy,return but there is no money left for Avery.That will be the end of this teams marginal success both in making the playoffs and ifusing youth into the lineup.

    As Ron Duguay said,this team needs to add gritty players who can play like Avery,Callahan only bigger.What we don’t need is shit like the HBO usless line anymore.

    I wan’t this team to sign Mike Commodore,and Wade Redden in addition to Mikael Ryder as out side free agents.

    My ideal team would be as follows;

    Avery-Dubinsky-Jagr

    Dawes-Gomz-Ryder

    Byers-Drury-Callahan

    Sjostrom-Korpikoski-Jessiman/Moore

    Staal-Redden

    Girardi-Tyutin

    Commodore-Mara

    Speed,size and alot of gritt

    What do you guys think?

  93. “If Jagr really wanted to stay in NY he very easily could have…all he had to do was score 40 goals or have 84 points…so if he had worked harder in the regular season…just a little harder actually, he would have automatically been a Ranger next season…end of story.”

    But he was saving himself for prom night….oops…the playoffs.

    salty – the ‘sand’ comment was a good one. and my answer is ‘no’.

    I really don’t ‘hate’ jags. I just want to see my team go in a different direction. It was one thing when there was jags, straka, rucinsky, sykora, rozy, prucha, malik…sometimes those plans DO work. It helped us make a (new) name for ourselves, and I am greatful. But those days are past us, and we can’t dwell on them.

    In the words of Tom Petty: It’s time to move on, it’s time to get goin. What lies ahead, I have no way of know’in…

  94. no Jessiman, Commodore overrated and will be tons of cash. I like other defenseman better, but it’s one of the better proposals i have seen!

  95. Hockeyman Rangers #2 on

    This pole to the right is bogus Jagr or Lundy in my book do not deserve mvp. Gomer or Dubinksy in my book.

  96. Redden is SLOW, had a terrible season, and was part of the reason for the Ott meltdown

    and Commodore is worse than Redden

  97. What *mental midget* came up with the idea that Straka would get $4.5 million?! He only made $3.3 million this year, and would probably only be signed for less than that.

    I have to admit, I really don’t know what I want or what will happen at this point. I think I need more time to be further away from the 2007-08 season, at least in terms of the Rangers. I am starting to believe Salty in that the young players have the ability to step up, similar to the examples here of the role players in 2005-06 and the Flyers without Gagne this season, but we have a better goalie than both of those teams (since Henrik was a rookie in 2005). Right now, I’m thinking we need to find a scoring left wing somewhere. I think bringing back Shanahan would be the best out of the old guys because he is less selfish than Jagr and he can play good defense. I would put him with Drury, Dawes and Callahan back with Dubinsky, and find some players to play with Gomez, probably putting Avery with Drury, as well. I think pairing Mara with Staal wouldn’t be such a bad idea, even though that doesn’t sound like a very good first pairing. I am glad, though, that people have come around to appreciate Mara more. We need to find a new #1 because I don’t think Staal is ready for that. Maybe split Girardi and Tyutin and open the sixth spot to all competition from Hartford, which will leave us with three “second pairings,” if we’re lucky.

    czechthemout – I’m impressed that you actually came up with a viable option. I just disagree with Commodore, especially with Mara, Byers and Sjostrom should be switched, and Betts will be on the fourth line.

  98. Doodie – I believe I have seen it since the lockout that players have *not* been called for high-sticking due to a followthrough.

  99. Hoping Dane Byers gets a shot next year. He seems like a big, skilled power forward and is not afraid to mix it up. We need that, big time.

  100. Sam, Renny needs to strive to improve the Power Play, or did he not recognize that failure all year long?

  101. I am looking forward to the Detroit/Stars series. I think Detroit will win, but Dallas has surprised me all year.

  102. Anthony (Abev) on

    Hey Sam,

    “only a one-year contract can be used for the one-time only 35-and-over contract that was used this year for Brendan Shanahan.”

    This sounded new to me so I had to scour the CBA to clarify this and I cannot find it anywhere. AFAIK there is no ‘one-time only’ limit on 1 yr contracts for age 35 and older? It’s very possible I missed it as the CBA has a tendency to allow for interpretation. Maybe you could clarify?

  103. Pete K Sec 421 on

    Just a quick thought.. Baranka, Sanguinetti, Sauer get called up, Wally Backman, Malik, Rozsi, all go bye bye!! I know Wally is under contract, but we can send him to Hartford ala Kasper! If we have a bunch of kids on D, and maybe pick up one bruiser, I think we go farther in the playoffs, and they also gain valuable experience. Plus, if Sanguinetti gives up a puck in our zone which leads to a goal, he’s gaining experience, and won’t do it again. Doesn’t That sit with you better than if it was it was Rozsival doing it, and not learning a damned thing?

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