At the risk of stating the obvious


I just finished doing a series preview capsule for tomorrow’s paper in which I break down the Rangers and Penguins by position.

What I’ve come to decide, though, is that other than between the pipes, the series isn’t going to come down to any clear advantage on either side. For the Rangers at least, I think it’s going to come down to two things: limiting turnovers and staying out of the penalty box.

Point is, as good as they were against the Devils, the Rangers were hardly airtight. And if it’s one thing to cough up the puck to John Madden or Sergei Brylin and let Henrik Lundqvist bail you out, it’s quite another to make the same mistakes against Crosby or Malkin.

Meanwhile, the team skates at 11 before (finally) jetting to Pittsburgh. I’ll be going first thing in the morning.

By the way, here’s my story in today’s paper in which  I “delve into some of the series subplots”:

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  1. Re: Hartford players, see the blueshirt bulletin but there will be call ups and remember Dawes DID play. Hutch probably won’t be up because of waivers same for Gratton. I’d expect Potter, P.A, Byers etc.. and a few others..but remember Strudwick, Malik, Prucha and Orr will all go in before anyone from Hartford will.

  2. Nasty – I hear ya about using #’s with Avery. I agree that his ‘antics’ support his asking price. I just don’t know how you value an intangible. Apparently Slats has the same problem. I will reserve my own judgement on his ‘deserved salary’ after the playoffs have ended. BTW, I’m reading through the CBA looking for bonus requirements. This is what I have so far…

    (2) Performance Bonuses shall be allowable under this
    Agreement only for:
    (i) Players with Entry Level SPCs under
    Article 9 of this Agreement;
    (ii) Players aged 35 or older as of June
    30 prior to the League Year in which the SPC is to
    be effective, who have signed a one-year SPC for
    that League Year; and
    (iii) Players who are “400-plus game
    Players” for pension purposes, and who: (i) in the
    last year of their most recent SPC, spent 100 days or
    more on the injured reserve list; and (ii) have signed
    a one-year SPC for the current or upcoming League

  3. I don’t know. From what I’ve read, the ONLY shot he has at any bonuses is if he signs a 1 year deal. I know Girardi has a multi-year deal and has bonueses coming to him…but he’s on an entry-level contract. Looks like Avery’s $ is “straight up”.

    S – Dawes did play that one game. I’d have to believe he was on the NHL roster from the deadline on. Just a healthy scratch. I don’t remember though. And I don’t know where to look it up.

  4. good article Sam… THe only thing that gives the Rangers any type of edge (besides Hank) is that we went through a sweep and then tough series last year, and the Pittsburgh kids are in the same boat this year.

  5. Repost
    Yeah the Rangers have been battling! They don’t like to lose and the Rangers have been really strong in third periods which is awesome!
    I think if Avery has another series like last (and not like against Buffalo) than . . . well try 3 mill.
    I hope their overconfidence back fires. The Rangers were to confident going into Buffalo and were caught flat footed. This time the Rangers are ready.

    I hope Jagr overcomes the boos and has an awesome series. Ad I hope e don’t match lines. Renney didn’t do it against jersey- he made them match- and we should do the same thing here. By forcing the fourth line everytie Crosby is out there the RAngers offense is severly limited. ANd no return of the H-B-O line that leaves no room for Sjostrum. Sjo- Betts- Orr should be fine. Also if he is skating well double shift Jagr every once in awhile. It will give Shanahan a rest every other shift or so and keep him fresh. What do you all think?

  6. according to oth the Rangers and Penguins average age is 27.5 I like the experience and mix of our players and team better then theirs, I just think the balance will favor us, though that alone doesn’t win the series.

  7. A lot of these guys have so much displeasure for Sean Avery that they won’t pick the Rangers to win. To have that kind of impact on someone’s decision making is so amazing to me. I love it actually.

  8. I think it’s great that everyone is so blinded by the Cros. Honestly we tend to do 100x better when no one expects us to.

  9. Let me ask you all this. Remember when that kid took the hockey puck from behind the net and did a lacrosse like move and put it in the top corner? Everyone thought that is was the best thing since sliced bread. That is not too unlike what Avery did. I mean it is non traditional. That can be considered Bushleague. But it wasn’t Sean Avery, and it wasn’t done by and agitator so it was the greatest thing in the world. If you want to go after the guy then go after him but at least admit it is because you are biased towards him.

  10. I like it when guys that are still playing make their predictions. I like Billy Guerin and I always have. I like the fact that he picks us. He played both teams during the course of the year, and he would be one of the first people I would really listen to. What other reason would he have to pick us other than really believing we can win? He plays for the Islanders, one of our hated rivals. Just goes to make me like him even more.

  11. Seems like no one outside of NY (and even most here) aren’t giving the Rangers any credit. The Rangers are on an impressive run having only lost three games in regulation inthe past 30 (including playoffs). The Rangers are a team that fight hard. They have been very strong in the third period. Henrik is better than Fleury (I don’t care how good he has been down the stretch). We have no offensive defenceman like Gonchar but our defensive corps are just as sound defensivly as Pittsburg. As for offense they have Crsoby and Malkin a great one two punch complimented by Sykora and Hossa, the snipers. We have exprience on our side. Shanahan knows what to say to the team and has strong leadership. Jagr has been skating like its ten years ago and even if he doesn’t put up the points like he used to (8 in 5 games ain’t bad though) he dominates the puck and wears out the other team while opening up ice for his own teammates. Gomez toyed with the devils and is one of the best playmakers in the league. Drury is captain clutch scoring game winning goals and winning face-offs. Dubinsky and Calahan have made themselves known with hard hits and aggrssive play. So given that I think it should be a pretty even series and I think the Rangers will win because when you have two even teams experience usually plays a big role.

  12. Rangers in 6!
    Rangers were the better team during the regular season & have been playing great hockey past 2 months under pressure just to make the playoffs.
    Jagr & Hank are playing their best hockey of the season past month. Power play has dramatically improved, Gomez & Drury are showing why we got them, for the playoffs, especially Drury of late who has really turned it around after a poor start.
    Granted that Crosby, Malkin & Hossa are incredibly dangerous & capable of scoring out of nowhere. We had way too many turnovers in our end against the Devils which the Pens are more capable of converting than the Devils were, however I believe the Rangers will have plenty of scoring chances against the Pens & have the talent to convert.
    We were more tested in hard fought, tense games than were the Pens in the opening series & that is a plus as well.
    The biggest reason we will win is that this Ranger team has showed great heart, courage, and the ability to keep bouncing back from adversity all year, under great pressure, while a lesser team could have easily folded.
    I love the balance & chemistry this team has, experience, youthful energy, & proven winners all believing in their system and having learned how to make it work.
    Can’t wait for Friday!
    Go Rangers!

  13. Another thing is the team has showed quite clearly they don’t give up. There were some of the Pens games when they fell behind and they lost all momentum..even when the Rangers lost in OT to the Devils they were cool headed. They were cool headed when the calls weren’t going their way. They are cool headed now that everyone is saying Pitt has this thing easily. The fact is Pitt faced a barely there Ottawa team that had ONE line that could score. They had shaky goaltending too. If Hank can steal games this series, we’re money.

  14. If avery can shake up a guy like broduer who is a vet…imagine what he can do to a babyface newborn like fluery. I think he will be able to draw a lot of penalties just by getting close to fluery and the pens overreacting.

    We have to take advantage of our power plays.

    I’m so nervous, I’m ready to get this going…I have a soccer game at 8 so I will miss the 3rd period. Unless it’s the finals, I can’t trade playing a sport for watching a sport.

  15. Beer- I agree Renney & Co are certainly there to calm them and they do a great job of it. But I wouldn’t take away from Shanny, Jagr, Dru, Gomer etc also having a voice in keeping everything cool and collected.

  16. I have traded nothing to watch the games which is why my thesis is not yet finished. :-( Speaking of that i guess I should stop wasting time.

  17. I’m fired up, can’t wait for tomorrow. I really like many of your assessments and am happy to see everyone is looking at the Rangers and our status positively, rather than looking at us from the negative light we so often see in these blogs and forums, etc.

    I could go on all day, but I just want to make one quick point. John Madden and Zach Parise are not Crosby and Malking when it comes to putting the puck in the net; however, Crosby and Malkin are not Madden and Parise when it comes to forechecking… which is one reason why I think we turned the puck over so much.

    The Pens score a lot of goals off the rush, versus a team like the devils who score predominantly from cycling and battling. We actually match-up better against a team like the Pens because we clog the neutral zone and they never dump the puck in.

    I’d hate to give the Devils any credit, but one thing I learned about them is they are a tenacious forechecking team. You’re not going to see that with the Pens… even guys like Rutuu and Roberts are very beatable down low.

    I think their style plays into our gameplan beautifully. It’s a reason we beat them 5 times this year.

    If we stay out of the box and don’t get caught up in the diving that will inevitably take place, I think we will dominate the series and take them in 5.

  18. True Fans Bleed RW&B on

    There are way too many x-factors for anyone to predict this series. While I do understand the strong case made for the Penguins, there are still the Jagr-,Avery-, Lundqvist- (and Fleury-), plus the Hossa-, and Hal Gill-, factors to consider. Too many unforeseen BIG players with the ability to turn this series in either direction.

    I think Laraque will have a very quiet series, but let’s not forget Ruutu who might be just as active as Avery.

    Also, for everyone claiming the Rangers won the season series, there’s an asterisk next to it…the Penguins look at their season series against the Rangers as 3-3 because 4on4 overtimes and shootout wins don’t matter in the playoffs…it’s still 5 on 5 hockey. On top of that, when you add Marion Hossa (historically silent in the playoffs, or not), then you have to like your new team’s chances.

    I’m pulling for the Rangers, but I believe they are playing the most challenging team from the East.

  19. Nice Brandon good point about Pandolfo and Madden.

    I like to stay positive about hockey (usually I leave the forums and boards that are all negative all the time) I have one kid on myspace who was continually bashing the Rangers- even when they won he found somehting to be miserable about so I told him if he sent me three good quality positive comments in a row I would send him an autographed puck! It worked and he is still being positive- atleast to me. Which is all I wanted. I lot of people get mad at me and say I don’t really care about the RAngers but I just can’t do the whole doom and gloom thing. Because what I like most about sports is that there is always next year to improve and do better and life is negative enough I like to keep my sports thinking positive. It worked pretty durn well with the Giants this year!

  20. I agree true fan. I don’t think there was anyway to get to the Stanley Cup without playing the Penguins. If it didn’t happen this round it was going to be next round. But I think the Rangers have a good chance of beating them. It should be a close series and a long one.

  21. I’ve lost all respect for Melrose, he is a espn puppet. When Montreal was playing great the last month of the season Melrose said that he now picks Montreal to represent the east in the stanely cup finals. This morning I saw melrose on ESPN saying that he picks the Flyers to beat Montreal. I almost fell off my chair. Melrose changes his prediction like the weather. He has no credibility.

  22. I’m the kind of person who’s never worried about a guy like Hal Gil b/c he may just be the worst skater in the NHL. He’s REALLY slow and takes A LOT of dumb penalties.

    Laraque might not even dress according to some sources. What do they need him for? He’s a fighter, not even an enforcer, just a fighter.

    There may not be 4-4 and shootouts in the playoffs but the fact of the matter is we still beat them 5 times. They can look at it however they want to. Do I think that’s the reason we’re going to win? No. But that is the reason its no walk in the park for them.

    I still think the Penguins made a monumental mistake trading their workhorse young players for Hossa, who they may not even be able to keep for very long. They are NOT a win-now team and I thought it was a premature move.

    We’ll shut him down as we did last year.

  23. Anyone have any insight to Hollweg’s role in this series?

    I love players like Hollweg, but you have to consider whether inserting Orr or Prucha into the lineup could be beneficial.

    I know a lot of you are not high on prucha, but he can score (sometimes) backchecks furiously, is fearless, and has a very good hockey IQ when it comes to being in the right position.

    I don’t think Renney will change the lineup unless we lose a game, but I’m curious if all three of those guys will rotate or not.

  24. Dubinsky is very smooth with the puck. He is the second best player on our team in taking the puck from his own zone down in to the other end.

  25. The play that Dubi made against the Devils when he chipped it over the devils stick and had the 2 on 1 rush with Straka. He perfectly passed the puck to Straka and Straka buried it. That was one of the nicest goals of the series.

  26. Did I miss this quote somewhere? This is from

    Jagr expects the booing to intensify in the playoffs, but says, “That shouldn’t make a difference. I’m not going to cry about it.”

  27. Lady Byng fonalists

    Martin St Louis

    correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t Louis have a propensity to diving…

    and I saw somewhere Dubi was in the top ten of rookies but I don’t know if there is any way to find out what he ranked in consieration…

  28. I thought Dubi would be a finalist for the Calder he is underrated.
    And I think Orr should be in over Hollweg. I liked Hollweg but this year it seems to me like he is taking a lot more dumb penalties and making bad hits.

  29. Unless it’s the finals, I can’t trade playing a sport for watching a sport.


    I hear you on this for the regular season, but playoffs are a horse of a different color. Friday night our game is actually at 10:40 so the team is meeting up to watch the game around the corner before our own game. It’s just going to be very difficult to resist heavy drinking before skating.

  30. But yeah I will skip my own games at this point to catch an NYR 2nd round playoff game. Luckily, It hasn’t been a problem yet and I’ve only skipped a pick up game. If we go deep, it may eventually come down to choosing. That’s wha I would consider a “quality problem”.

  31. There is a good read on Avery on CNNSI, but it won’t let me post it on here for some reason.

  32. Doodie Machetto on

    Some responses to the earlier thread:

    SP: Yes, I definitely meant Laraque. Sorry, I haven’t been sleeping well. I mixed up Salvador and Montador during the Devils series too.

    Beer Me: ” It started to become a ‘problem’ when people were throwing these mammoth ‘pi on the ice.”

    Actually, it became a problem in 1996 when the Florida Panthers fans would pelt the ice with rubber rats after they scored a goal. This was started as a result of Scott Melanby slapshotting a rat against a wall, killing it on opening night. By the time the playoffs rolled around, over 2000 rats would hit the ice every time the Cats scored. Goaltenders would have to hide in their nets and wait until it was over. At the same time, Detroit was throwing some mammoth octopi, but the league wasn’t too concerned with that because it’s easy to pick up a few octopi, but it took a long ass time to wait for 2000 rats to come down and then pick them up. So during the offseason, they instituted a delay of game penalty for it.

    Nasty: My beard is itchy on the chin and along the bottom of my face. The neck isn’t so bad.

    Someone said that NJ scores their goals from cycling. That’s just patently untrue. NJ is an odd man rush team. They force offensive zone turnovers and then break on you. During the regular season, that’s how they scored most of their goals against us. They did so less in the playoffs because the Rangers were coached to prevent such things, but it still happened a couple of times.

    No, the key to this series is going to be the penalty box. Our PK, which was great all season, was just AWFUL against the Devils, who boasted the worst PP during the regular season of any Eastern playoff team. If we end up in the box and our PK remains that bad, Pittsburgh will destroy us.

    The flip side of that is our PP, which was only slightly less anemic during the regular season, was even better than theirs, although their PK was not as strong as our during the regular season.

    Bottom line: if we stay out of the box, we have a shot. If we go in, Pittsburgh will destroy us. If they go in, I like our chances.

  33. Speaking of Dubi, he had 6 pts in the opening series 3 goals 3 assists, he won alot of faceoffs, took the body, not bad for a Rookie

  34. Doodie Machetto on

    Dubinsky is tied for the league lead in playoff points by a rookie with one of the Kostisyns, but that guy had 7 games.

  35. doodie – I’m sure I could do the research. But Det was throwing octopi long before FLA had a hockey team. The nhl just started to crack down on it around that time. That’s all. Det was first though. By many moons. And I referenced the rats. Don’t skim.

    And NJD don’t cycle well, that’s why their PP sux. Yes, they are purely and odd-man rush team. Have been for a while.

    nasty – I’ve been trying to post that for a while. no luck either

  36. Let me ask you all this. Remember when that kid took the hockey puck from behind the net and did a lacrosse like move and put it in the top corner? Everyone thought that is was the best thing since sliced bread. That is not too unlike what Avery did. I mean it is non traditional. That can be considered Bushleague. But it wasn’t Sean Avery, and it wasn’t done by and agitator so it was the greatest thing in the world. If you want to go after the guy then go after him but at least admit it is because you are biased towards him.


    Not too unlike what Avery did? To compare lifting the puck onto your stick and tucking it into the net in one smooth move to waving your arms in front of a goalie is comical.

    One move can’t even be pulled off by most NHL players, the other can be pulled off by a kindergarten student.

    Not even in the same stratosphere.

  37. REPOST:
    “You know I understand that Jagr left Pittsburg and it was bad (I assume money was involved I don’t know) but Jagr is always so respectful of Mario you think he would say hey fans this guy did a lot for you have you forgotten everything? I hate the way they boo him all the time.”

    First off Jagr got traded to a team he didn’t want to go to. This all had to do with their coach, a fellow Czech (can’t remember his name) that expected him to do way too much. So Jagr and him didn’t get along. Then the media was trying to make Jagr sound like he was making negative comments towards Mario when that was not the case.

    Also, there was an issue with money but originally Jagr said he would stay for less and then the whole fallout with the coach and the media happened. He asked to be traded to the Rangers, a deal I think was close to being done until at the last second Patrick traded him to Washington where he was miserable for 2 1/2 years. Finally when the Caps were disappointed with Jagr’s play and he got a chance to go to the Rangers, the Caps made the deal and now Jagr is the happiest he’s been in years. Pretty much Jagr gets booed because he is the scapegoat for poor management of all those years and the fans don’t know the true story behind why he left.

    Oh I think the problem with his coach was when Jagr first hurt his groin and had hip flexor problems in 2001 and the coach said he wasn’t tough and should play through it or something like that. Jagr never had a real serious injury before that but played through the minor ones he had and the fact that his toughness was being called out did not sit very well with him. I’m pretty sure thats what happened and why him and the coach didn’t get along.

    Also to the people who say we can throw off Fleury easier, lets not forget Fleury isn’t full of himself like Brodeur is. Marty expects the beat the Rangers 9 times out of 10 just because he did for so long. The fact he couldn’t beat them and Avery was running his mouth the whole time caused him to go see a psychiatrist this off season. Fleury doesn’t have that mentality or the history against the Rangers. If anything we’ve lit him up so he still has stuff to prove. This series should be great. I know people outside NY aren’t giving the Rangers much credit, but why should they?

    I mean we didn’t really do anything special during the regular season then beat a Devils team that can’t score. Not to mention we are expected to beat the Devils after the regular season series since Henke and others always seem to step up to play them. I’m not doubting the Rangers chances at all and I think they will be successful, but I’d like to see what they will do against a team that they don’t have a huge rivalry against, especially one thats extremely talented.

  38. ….
    The Red Wings’ tradition began in 1952 when two fishmongers realized that the number of tentacles on an octopus matched the number of wins then necessary to win the Stanley Cup.) Octopus-tossing is officially proscribed, but arena superintendent Al Sobotka tacitly encourages it by twirling octopuses over his head as he chugs off the ice after cleaning them up. In this year’s playoff innovation, some Oilers fans threw hunks of prime Alberta beef onto the ice in response.”

    Sobotka said in 1996 that an unofficial record of 54 octopuses were thrown during one game of the 1995 Stanley Cup final series between Detroit Red Wings and New Jersey Devils. He also stated that Detroit fans throw an average of 25 octopuses per playoff game. [5] For his tireless efforts, the Red Wings named their octopus mascot “Al” after Sobotka.

    According to NHL rules, if any fan throws an object on the ice in celebration, the supported team could be issued a delay of game penalty. However, the NHL tends to look the other way when Sobotka does his stuff. Frank Brown, the league’s vice president for media relations, said in response:

    “Every so often, an octopus slips out of someone’s hands, and Al is right there to take care of the matter. And he cannot be blamed if, as it tries to break free from Al’s grasp, the octopus lifts Al’s arm and twirls itself in the air.”[6]

    In the 2008 playoffs, the NHL issued a warning that while they were fine with Octopuses being thrown on the ice, the Red Wings would be fined $10,000 if Sobotka twirled the Octopus in the air, as bits of the Octopus were getting in the ice and on the opposing goaltender.

    And there we have it.

  39. Beer, sorry bud but you’re 100 percent wrong about the Devils. Not that this should be an issue. First, why would you cycle on the Power Play? There’s one less guy out there, hence no need for cylcing.

    Second, while the old Devils would rely on countering mistakes with odd man rushes the “new” Devils relied on their forecheck for most of the season to creat turnover and goals.

    They don’t really have the speed or talent to be an odd man rush team.

    I hate them, seriously, I do… but I think they probably forecheck harder than the penguins. This is the reason I think we’ll make less mistakes in our own end.

    Detroit has been throwing Octopi forever. The Rats came about with Mellanby on the team in Florida that year. It got so ridiculous the league had to crack down. They would score and LITERALLY thousands of mice would be thrown on the ice.. including a dead one from time time.

  40. I’ve lost all respect for Melrose, he is a espn puppet. When Montreal was playing great the last month of the season Melrose said that he now picks Montreal to represent the east in the stanely cup finals. This morning I saw melrose on ESPN saying that he picks the Flyers to beat Montreal. I almost fell off my chair. Melrose changes his prediction like the weather. He has no credibility.


    Why can’t Melrose change his opinion? I admit, he’s an a$$, but as each round progresses, you find out different things about the team that would lead you to change your previous analysis. That’s sports. It isn’t static, it’s fluid.

    I think it’s fine for a guy to change his tune. I think that gives you more credibility (admitting you have an open mind) than someone sticking to their guns for the sake of trying to be right.

    Look at all the pundits picking Ottawa to win it all in October. You’d be ridiculing them now if they picked the Sens in April.

  41. Hey Jackass, I mean Peppery. What I meant, and I am sure everyone else but you got it, was that the complaint about avery was that he did something that was classless. Well to pull off a move, that is amazing to watch, but that is something a goalie has not been really trained to expect, is unorthodox and can fall in to the same category. And trust me, to get the puck on your stick and whip it in like that is not that difficult.

  42. Peppery

    You’ll recall that both maneuvers, even the one perpetrated by the “kindergarden” student, led directly to goals scored by both.

  43. Hi, my name is Peppery and I like to come on to sites and disagree for the sake of disagreeing. You talk about things a kindergarten student can do. What grade are you in son?

  44. PP 101.

    You cycle on the PP to draw the 4(or3) defenders out of the shooting lanes and create extra room to move the puck. In the process you draw the goalie side to side making him look through traffic and never give him the chance to get set or square to a shooter.

    I could meet you with a dry-erase board if you still dont get it.

  45. Doodie Machetto on

    Beer, missed the rat reference, but you’re missing my point. The league didn’t really care about the octopi. I know they had been doing it for a long time before that. Think about what that impies: acquiescence. The rat throwing is why they made the crackdown. In the offseason following the rat throwing, the league made it a penalty to throw stuff on the ice. They had to ban to octopi if they wanted to ban the rats. Even so, they still pretty much have let Detroit get away with an octopus or two so long as it was cleared up quickly.

    My point was, the rats were the target of the delay of game penalty, not the octopi.

  46. nasty – you’re totally feeling like me right now. Give me anything to debate. please! I’m so bored. And with salty no longer bashing every piece of the organization, it’s getting dull around here.

  47. I think alot of the turnovers vs. NJ had to do with the forecheck pressure they put on. I dont think Pittsburgh pressures close to as much as the Debbies.

  48. Brandon –

    Agreed with you on the Devils. Parise, Elias and Langebrunners were rleentless down low during the season (I had Parise on my fantasy team, so I paid a lit of attention to the Devils).

    They definitley scored a lot on offensive zone possession, not on the rush. It wasn’t necessarily a cycle, but they’d work the puck down low and behind the net.

  49. doodie – no worries man. I think I knew what you meant. But I wanted to make sure you knew, that I knew about how it all went down.

    Now that we’ve settled that…you’re opinion: Why is it necessary to cycle on the pp?

  50. And Peppery, if you are trying to take over for our old friend Salty, you need to pick a new name. I would say a few months ago, you and he could have hopped in the Suburban and headed on down to Downerville, but he has since turned a corner. I don’t know if there is any help for you. I am sorry.

  51. Beer, how so? I gave my opinion with justifed reasoning and analysis and all you did was come back with a “you don’t know anything about hockey”.

    That doesn’t seem like a response from someone who is loaded with an arsenal of hockey knowledge.

    I’m allowed to disagree with you. I just happen to think you’re wrong about the Devils.

    There are three types of power plays, none which involve cycling.

    1. Umbrella: Spread offense, work the puck around, try to create as many 2 on 1s via passing.
    2. Shooting: Take high percentage shots, mainly from the point… crash the net looking for rebounds.
    3. Triangle: Form triangle in front of net, look for perfect pass and one time goals.

    Where does cycling factor in?

    I’m all for having an adult discussion. If you want to get personal, I can go that way, but prefer not to as I’m pretty excited about the rangers and playoffs and don’t need that kind of bad karma.

  52. Nasty – Don’t get pissed at me because you made a foolish comparison. Goalies are supposed to look through the net when an opposition player has a puck behind the net, that goalie should have seen what was happening. The player caught the goalie sleeping.

    Adam – What I recall is that Avery scored while his stick was on the ice, facing the passer. Not while his back was to the play, face washing Broduer. I give him points for style, but not substance.

  53. Doodie Machetto on

    “Second, while the old Devils would rely on countering mistakes with odd man rushes the “new” Devils relied on their forecheck for most of the season to creat turnover and goals.

    They don’t really have the speed or talent to be an odd man rush team.”

    Are you kidding? Dude, that was their offense, all season. If they were a forechecking team, they would have scored a lot more goals. Instead, they sat back, played defense, waited for you to make a mistake in their zone, and would break on you. Beer is 100% right about this.

  54. Doodie Machetto on

    Looks like it’s going to be one of those days on the blog.

    I think we’ll all kill each other before Friday at this rate.

  55. Beer Me! – Wouldn’t you say that puck and player movement is necessary on a powerplay, but a traditional cycle (keeping the puck in the corner by “cycling” players) isn’t?

  56. Our 4th line forechecks relentlessly and doesn’t score goals. Just because you’re forechecking doesnt mean you score. All it does is lead to chances. They don’t have finishers. Save for the goal that went off of Blair Betts in game 3, name me a goal they scored off the rush… I acutlaly don’t even remember.

    Also, I think you guys are confusing cycling from “working the puck”. If you move it around to create 2 on 1s on the power play, that’s not cycling. Cycling is what is is by definition, a cycle. A circular motion in the corner of one player dropping the puck to another and then replacing said space.

    It’s a mute point really. Let’s move on.

  57. Peppery, I am not mad. But you failed to see my point in the original post. A goalie is taught to take a peek behind the net. But if he wastes his time looking too long he risks missing a feed in front and a slam dunk goal. That move is not something that is taught to players. It was a player being creative. I don’t know if it is in the rule book or not that it can’t be done, and neither is what Avery did.

  58. Doodie- The Devils are a forechecking team. They are one the most aggressive forechecking teams in the league. They always had 2 men in. The entire series.

  59. Nasty or Beer Me — how much trouble would it be to type in the link? I looked for it without success.

  60. doodie – honestly, I was HOPING for one of ‘these days’. Its been boring.

    Brandon – If you’re sticking with “there are 3 types of PP’s”, then I’m sticking with you not knowing much about hockey. Let’s stop this before it goes any further. We’re on opposite poles on this one.

  61. Brandon for much of the season the Rangers didn’t cycle the puck on the PP. They just stood still and passed it around to each other…When the Rangers are cycling and moving around the ice on the PP…that is when it has worked.
    Definitely wrong on that point…

  62. No I know what cycling is and we do that on the power play. Continually keeping it in the corner and switching players. Yeah the Rangers do that on the power play. Not confusing anything here.

  63. Nasty 1 – Either way, I don’t think the comparison is apple to apples. One maneuver is in the spirit of the game, the other isn’t. I just don’t see how anyone can say otherwise.

    But hey, we’re allowed to disagree, apologies if I was harsh in my original post.

  64. Fair enough Beer, but any other types of power plays are just variations of the ones I listed. Pretty standard stuff really.

    It’s not important. The only reason I brought this whole thing up was b/c I don’t think Pitt is going to forecheck as hard as the Devils, and as a result I don’t think we will cough up the puck like we did from time to time in round 1.

    Moving on…

  65. melrose’s points was accurate tho, if we make similar turnovers in our zone against the pens they will score. so im not that mad at him here. and do you think guerin may be campaigning to be signed by the rangers?

    and nasty i think even his teammates would privately admit they didnt like what avery did as it went past being unorthodox

  66. speed ranger – you’re asking too much here. :)

    Go to Then scroll down and click on ‘sports’. That’ll bring you to CNN/SI. Scroll down again, and you’ll see an article named something like “broadway bully”. May the force be with you.

    “Wouldn’t you say that puck and player movement is necessary on a powerplay, but a traditional cycle (keeping the puck in the corner by “cycling” players) isn’t?”

    The definition of cycle is confusing the conversation. the conv is MOOT.

  67. Jorek – The Rangers without a doubt do not cycle on their PP. Jagr stays in one spot (half boards), Dubinsky stays close to the goal line or in front of the net, Straka floats, the D stays high. You hardly ever see any deviation, which is why our PP was so ineffective.

  68. Mntreal v Flyers- Montreal in 7
    Rangers v Pittsurg- Rangers in 6

    Stars v SHarks- Stars in 6
    Detroit v. Aves- Detroit in 7

  69. Beer Me! – If you want don’t want to talk about it, that’s fine, but I don’t see how you can have a convo about whether or not the Rangers cycle on their PP without knowing what cycling is, which apparently, not everyone here does.

  70. Thy without a doubt do cycle on their pp. When Jagr takes it and dishes it back to DUbinsky who then dishes it to whoever was coming around the net and so on switching places. Everyonce in while it gets back to the point and then goes back to the corner for more cycling and no shooting.

  71. I want Dubi to really learn how to fight. The kid has the make to be a really good power forward.

  72. peppery – #1, we weren’t talking about the rangers PP. #2, cycling is not just player movement. #3, I’m moving on.

    I want to chime in on the “lacross move” vs Avery’s face-gaurding.

    I DO think it’s comparable, in the ‘spirit of the game’.

    Bradon – In those terms of devs forcheck vs that of pitt… I agree. I don’t think that pit has to ‘rely’ on the forecheck to create chances, and that’s why they won’t. I think if they chose to, we’d be in trouble. There’s much bigger bodies on pitt than nj.

  73. Nasty, saw your new pictures, nice stuff man. You’ve got more of a longer fine hair, I’ve got shorter scruffier hair. Two different beards, one love for a team.

  74. nasty – Odd point, but a good one. It’s unusual that fighting could be the one thing that a player is missing from being a true power fwd, but it’s the case here. His 22nd b-day is next tuesday I think. Hopefully with age will come the ability to fight. Maybe?

  75. My friend and I have a wager on the Rangers pens series. Loser has to display the winning team’s logo on their myspace page as well as a declaration of love for said team.

  76. Beer Me! – No one said cycling *is* player movement. Reread the post, or move on, either way I could care less.

    And way to back up your point on the “spirit of the game” comment. The object of hockey is to put the puck in the net using your stick. I don’t see how you can compare. Now, *I’m* moving on.

  77. I just checked out your beard contest- good job guys! Definitly growing beards better than the younger Rangers.

    Shouldn’t there be a new ost soon I think we need it!

  78. Question, re: octopi/rats — does anyone recall if Montreal was issued a delay of game penalty – this past January- when, down 0-5 vs. the Rangers, all the fans through those give-away visors onto the ice? It certainly was effective motivation for the Habs, penalty or not.

  79. Beer – That is strange, yet somehow they aren’t the same thing. If a forward covers for a “D” who pinches, they both move and switch places, but it isn’t cycling, now is it?

  80. Peppery they are cycling in the corner. They pass it back keeping it in the corner sometimes they will turn around and not pass it but keep it in the corner area while others move around to get open. That is cycling! Keeping puck in corner!

  81. Beer I am just thinking of a few of my favorite players that were power forwards. Messier, Tkachuk, Shanny, and Neely. All three of those guys could at one point, fight with the best of them, and beat the snot out of a lot of the players in the league.

  82. Here are my picks Flyers in 7; Rangers in 6, Wings in 6 & Sharks in 7; Agree with earlier post by Jorek. Need Orr(if he’s able) in place of Hollweg. Go Rangers

  83. Beer – That’s because you don’t understand the game. The logic behind what I said is pretty simple.

    Let me explain it to you slowly…Two players can switch places, but that does not constitute a “cycle”. Cycling occurs in the corner, when the puck is kept deep by 2 or more players rotating up the side boards and throwing the puck back into the corner.

    | X
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    | X

  84. That diagram looked way better before it got posted, but it just showed me what a waste of time it is trying to explain something to a guy who just changes the subject when he sees he’s wrong.

  85. Peppery that was what I was saying about Jagr and Dubinsky and then who ever comes form behind the net they are passing it back to the corner! So uh you said its not cycling.

  86. Jorek – I don’t know what PP you’re watching, but the Rangers aren’t doing that.

  87. Ha, I totally am in agreement with Peppery, albeit I feel a little bad for starting this whole chain of posts on cycling, kinda funny actually.

    That diagram is absurd, but I like the effort Peppery.

  88. Cycling is a circle. Three players can cycle, two players can cycle and if there are 4, you’re probably in big trouble.

    Anyways, it can only be done in the corner, not behind the net. It involves one player passing the puck backwards to the corner and then circling (or cycling) back up to the top of cirlce then making his way back to said corner. While this one player is doing this, the other 2 players are doing the same thing. It kills time, wears the D down and eventually should result in breaking the cycle and getting a shot on net.

  89. Speed Ranger: No penalty I’m pretty sure, It was an outrage.

    I think the Rangers end up cycling more on the PP out of necessity than that being the game plan. I’m sure they’d like to get peripheral player and puck movement going more than they do… but seem to have trouble getting that going sometimes and they get caught trying to maintain position deep, hence some cycling. Maybe I’m wrong.

  90. Ok I didn’t mean they cycle behind the net I was just saying that is where the other player comes form at times. They do cycle on the power play. It happens. I watch a lot of games and that what they do.

  91. Can everyone please put their hockey knowledge penises away? Mine’s bigger. No mine is. No mine is. Enough already.

    Let’s get back to the task at hand……

    Pitt and the Devs are nearly polar opposites in terms of their style. The Devs can’t score on an empty net, the Pens have more firepower than nearly any team in the league. What do you u guys think are the keys to containing this?

    You think Renney will try and match lines as best he can?

    Do you think Jags gets double shifted like he did vs the Devs?

    Which PP style would be best against the Pens? (Again, keep your “I’m smarter than you” convos out of it.) You think Jags’ line of Euro style keepaway works better than Drury’s line of shots from the point/crash the net? Why?

    Let’s go….

  92. Opie & Anthony were talking about Avery and the shirts being nixed today…. Opie, a die hard Isles fan and Ranger hater said that as much as he hates Avery, the move was brilliant and awesome…. and then I started going back to sleep but I think they commented on how dumb of a move it is to but the cuffs on a player like Sean…and that it’s impeding growth of the fanbase. I could be confusing this though, as I was in and out of sleeping and they were my alarm clock. I’ll DL a torrent of the show tonight and listen closey and without any “morning stiffness” clouding my judgement.

    Opie has also said in the past that although he hates the Rangers he doesn’t mind seeing a good hit thrown on his team by a Ranger for some reason.

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