Avery and Rangers breaks off talks

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Amidst the warm and fuzzy sentiments of the Rangers’ nine-game point streak, Sean Avery confirmed today that he has broken off talks of a contract extension with the team.

“We’re extremely far apart on each other’s views of what I am worth as a player,” Avery said.

The left wing, who went through a bitter arbitration dispute with the team during the summer, added that he didn’t anticipate talks resuming before the end of the season.

“I think it’s probably mutual,” he said of whose decision it was to break off talks. “When you’re not agreeing on a monetary value when you’re negotiation a contract, there’s no point in beating a dead horse.”

Avery has stated numerous times that he loves playing in New York. He repeated that today, but also sounded like he wouldn’t be afraid to walk away if need be.

“I certainly love playing for the Rangers, there’s no question about it,” he said. “But I’d probably say that window is not as open as it has been in the past.”

Curiously, when Avery was asked if his increased production of late — he has seven goals in his last 11 games — has had any impact on negotiations, he said his view of his worth as a player hasn’t changed. Right. But unlike, say, two months ago, he actually has a leg to stand on. Fact is, it’s harder to sell a team on your worth when you’re not even in the lineup, let alone not scoring goals.

As for what it all means, naturally the reporter in me isn’t going to complain that Avery decided to go public with his contract situation. But if I were one of his teammates, I’m not sure I’d be as thrilled. While everyone from Avery to Tom Renney said the player’s looming free agency won’t be a distraction, it’s still an element an otherwise unified team can do without as they approach the final month of the season.

Not that Avery still isn’t a source of amusement. At one point in practice today, he and Brandon Dubinsky collided on the ice during a drill. The two quickly apologized to one another, but Jaromir Jagr decided to take it a step further, bringing the three of them together for a group hug.

Later, when news that Avery had spouted off today made its way through the dressing room, Brendan Shanahan said to Jagr, who temporarily served as Avery’s spokesman, “He should have stuck with the arrangement when you spoke for him.”

In other news:
<li>Henrik Lundqvist will start tomorrow against the Islanders. Tom Renney also said he didn’t anticipate making any lineup moves, meaning Jason Strudwick, Ryan Hollweg, and Petr Prucha would again be scratches.

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143 Comments

  1. newman relax it is called negotiations… who would offer Aver y more $ next yr.? I think no one, he is a big fan favorite and has played well here.

    this is all part of the game…

  2. So HNIC was telling the truth afterall. Not a big surprise here on the talks breaking off. Avery is surely a catalyst for this team. However, he appears to be one of the most selfish and egotistical players in the NHL. How that gets the rest of the guys going, I have no idea. And there’s no doubt that he’s contributing more than some guys who are making more dough than he is. Unfortunately we don’t have the freedom of arbitration this time.

    Do you give him the big payday and go into next season with a D that’s just as soft as they are now? Or let him walk and bring in what we’ve needed for a long time?

    Newman – Your last post on the last thread was amusing. I’d rather see him take that one home too!

  3. Seriously folks there is no need to worry. This is just an old timer who played a similar game (Slats) going after someone who he sees a lot of himself in. He’s testing him. There is no way they would let him walk his stock has been to high and if they were going to unload him it would have been last week.

  4. Right off the bat, how much does Avery want, and how much do we (I you boardlings!) want to pay him? Give us your highest you’d be willing to go!

  5. Regardless of his attitude/ego, he is hands down the most important aquisition the Rangers have made since signing Jagr. He is the most important player to this team’s success. And Sather better recognize that, otherwise Avery will walk away from the Rangers. Just look at the team’s record with him out of the lineup to see what that would lead to.

    I’m not saying he needs to get every penny he wants, because I’m sure he is asking for too much. But Sather better not gamble with this one and try to low-ball this deal. I understand that it’s the nature of the negotiating beast, but some players are just too important to risk insulting and parting with. He is a player we need to have with respect to the present and the future.

  6. I think signing him to a 1 year deal and then re-negotiating a long-term extension (the same approach we used with Henrik) would be the smartest thing.

    Avery isn’t stupid, he knows he’s fragile. If he takes that approach and gets injured, his value drops.

    All things considered, in Avery’s defense, he’s worth more tot he Rangers than he would be to other teams, and I think he knows it. That also means he won’t get as much from another team as the he would from the Rangers.

    It just makes sense that they get a deal done, this is really a situation where both parties need each other. He plays on the first line here, but would be no more than a 3rd liner on most other teams.

  7. Jeff – hard to argue that. But let’s just say he’s looking for 5 years 20mil. $4mil/yr can get you a very solid dman. Do you try to sign this (unnamed) dman or sean avery?

    zg – I’d probably say $3mil/yr is about right. The term is what the question really is. With his injury history and (past) temperment issues I wouldn’t want to lock him up for anything more than 3 yrs. max. And if slats is going to take that approach, it could cost us.

    The absolute worst thing we can do right now is overpay anyone else. When it comes to the business side of it, when it no longer makes sense to overpay a guy…you walk away.

  8. Hilarious that Ranger fans have fawned all over this guy, treated him like a rock star around the city and in the stands, even to the point where other men are discussing his clothes, glasses, girlfriends, and interest in music, and yet everyone is shocked and appalled when he thinks he’s god’s gift to the organization and city.

    Of course he has a ravenous ego — we overfeed it.

  9. Sather, Stop toying around with Avery and play him (do you remember what happen to MORRIE in Goodfellas comeon, pay him Morrie)LOL

  10. If Avery is rational, he will sign with the Ranger’s, because they will beat any offer he can get from other teams. If the Ranger’s are rational, they will offer Avery exactly 1 dollar more than other teams are offering.

    However, we know Avery is a little off, and would go somewhere else if he felt disrespected. The trick is, how much more than the other team do the Ranger’s need to offer to keep Avery in the fold?

    Call this the “Avery Ego Bonus”! Even if he is worth four million to the Rangers, as long as he is only worth two million to other teams, Sather has no reason to offer him his worth!

    Get your stinking paws off me, you damn dirty GM!

  11. I wasn’t saying it like I was afraid of the discussions. It was more a case of, “Shut your pie hole, play the game, let’s get the job done, and then let’s talk $.”

    Here is a measuring stick….at least I think it is: What does Chris Neil make?

  12. salty – I’d jump all over that deal.

    newman – EXCELLENT point there. Neil makes 1.2 this year and is a UFA this summer. He’ll get a raise (probably). But not what Avery’s looking for. And I’d take either one. But there’s no doubt we need a player like that in the lineup.

  13. Elliot – Chris Neil plays on the 2nd line.

    Avery should get paid what Darcy Tucker gets paid, $3 million per.

  14. The answer is that cigas-puss thinks he is a genius thats why he is low balling avery. But since he still thinks its the 80’s he is an idiot and a hasbeen. Your answers for all of your why does or did sather do that are answered my friends. Just read my post from the beginning, end of story!!!!! Do you really want to face Sean if lets say the cryers or asslanders pick him up?

  15. Actually, a good point is Jagr. Without Jagr, Avery goes back to being a second line player.

  16. Avery might be looking for more than just $3 million per

    The Rangers would be nuts to give him much more than that

    Avery in Detroit?The bars close at 11 there.Ask Ron Duguay who felt he was traded to Siberia after leaving NYC

  17. Prucha27 you continue to puzzle me. You slap Eliot in the head. Thank you. Then you say Avery should make what Tucker makes. A decent point. Then you say it doesn’t sound like Shanny likes Avery much. Challenge. Shanny knew Aves from his Red Wings days and was one of the guys that pushed Slats to sign Avery. So I am not sure about your last comment.

    Reality is, Avery is a spark plug. He is deceptively quick. He is a good hitter. He has decent hands and is tough to push off the puck. He pulls the other team off their game sometimes. Those are his attributes. His weaknesses are that he takes some dumb penalties. He shoots his mouth off. He is selfish.

    I thought Chris Neil was a good comparable player then Prucha mentioned Darcy Tucker who I think is as well. I don’t know crap but something tells me Avery is worth somewhere between 2 and 2.6mm per year. Tucker is overpaid at 3mm per year. And Avery might be worth more than Chris Neil.

  18. I think Avery is asking for more than $3 million a year for 3-4 years. Given that he’s making roughly $2 million this year, I’m sure boosting him to $3 million is not a big deal to Sather. If they’re that far apart, think that Avery is asking for $5 million for 5 + years. That’s “far apart.” $1 million a year in this world is not “far apart”. Or maybe Sather is lowballing him by insisting on a 1-year deal, which wouldn’t be terribly surprising given that Avery’s really only started playing well over the last few weeks.

  19. agreed. Anything over $3mil per is too high. I don’t think he has a chance in hell of getting that anywhere else. Who knows what the #’s really are.

    They should let us, the fans, decide what to give him!

    If he’s asking for less than $3mil/per and the deal is not done it’d have to be for more than 5 years.

    I’m taking the pessimist side on this one. I think he’s going to walk. Or Slats will overpay him. Lose/Lose for slats at this point.

  20. Newman – I didn’t slap anyone in the head. Neil simply plays on the 2nd line, not the 4th.

    And in my opinion, it doesn’t sound too much like Shanny likes Avery. When ever there’s a story about Avery talking, Shanny is telling him to shut up. There’s also the story about wehn Shanny was a Red Wing and Avery a King that Avery took a run at a Red Wing and Shanny skated over to the bench and told Avery “If you do that again, I’m not going to answer your phone calls anymore. Than you can call someone els to bitch about your teammates and how bad they are.”

    That sound like a guy who’s an Avery fan?

  21. I’d agree also that Avery falls right in the category of Tucker/Neil. Not one of those guys should be earning $3mil+ though.

  22. Beer Me! – That really depends on a whole lot, most importantly the unnamed dman’s potential role on the team, his age, and how high of a roof he has. I would be lying if I said I knew every detail about our prospects, but I believe with Girardi, Toots, and Staal already playing plus the eventual additions of Hutchinson, Sauer, Pock, and Sanguinetti, I believe the Rangers’ defensive future is pretty secure. So in my opinion, I’d take Avery over that unnamed defenseman.

    As far as Chris Neil as a measuring stick, I don’t think Neil’s worth for Ottawa is remotly close to Avery’s value for the Rangers. If we’re painting with a broad stroke than yes, they do fulfill similare “roles,” but that is a pretty big generalization.

    To be honest, I can’t even really put my finger on it, but all I know is there are few players out there that I watch during the game regardless of where the puck is or who else is on the ice, and Sean Avery is one of those players. He could be at the opposite end of the ice from the puck and my eyes are on him, because at any moment he could change the outcome of that specific shift, along with the outcome of that specific period and game. True, it’s not always for the good, but I’m willing to take the bad for the good he brings, because regardless of how selfish he may seem, I do believe that all of his little antics, are all attempts at increasing the team’s chance to win the game, for the betterment of the team as a whole.

    You need players like that in order to succeed.

  23. its Shanny’s job to shoot down the antics of players like Avery. That’s why he’s the most important player in the locker room. You need that sort of presence in the locker room. Doesn’t mean he dislikes Avery on any level. And when Shanny leaves (whenever that may be), it will be the responsibility of players like Drury and Gomez to keep him in check.

    And comparing sean avery to chris neil is a total joke. Avery’s skill level far and away exceeds that of Neil’s.

  24. “I don’t know crap but something tells me Avery is worth somewhere between 2 and 2.6mm per year. Tucker is overpaid at 3mm per year.”

    I agree with you, but there is that little word “relativity” that means so much. Avery on NYR is an ice cold bottle of water in the desert. Many other places that bottle of water costs a dollar, but in the desert, where and when you need it, you’ll pay much more.

    “Shanny and Avery are boys. There’s nothing else to it.”

    Ya… if you can’t see this, or actually think Shanny *dislikes* Sean…. eh… I’m not even going to bother…

  25. On the topic of Avery as a source of amusement: My daughter had the good fortune to be the Blue Crew Kid at yesterday’s game. She’s a huge Rangers fan and had a blast. At one point, as she skated off the ice, Avery noticed the pink laces on her hockey skates. He leaned over the bench and said to her: “I like your laces, they’re really cool. Do you think they would work for me?” What a goof!

    PS – Thoughts on when we can expect to see Prucha back in the line up?

  26. Yes, please don’t bother. With you being in the lockeroom, and all.

    You people make it like Shanny would come out and say it, even if he hated Avery. He’s not that kind of guy, he has too much class for that.

  27. Jeff – the whole ‘unnamed dman’ thing is very vague, I know. The point of my statement really, is that if you’re going to throw all kinds of $ at the guy, you’re taking it away from adding a piece that we need elsewhere. This is definitely not an easy thing to decided on. I’m REAL glad that’s not my job. Slats vs. Avery…’who has the bigger “ego”‘ is really what this is about.

    I don’t think the comparison of Neil & Avery is that far off. Their career #’s are extremely close. Toughness, pretty damn close too. Avery seems to fit NY as well as NY fits Avery.

    salty – “cold bottle of water”. You’re on the money today man.

  28. I think Avery will show his worth more int he playoffs, when the games get “rougher”. Do i like Avery on the first line, right now yes. BUT what happens in 2 years if Jagr isn’t here, so I like Avery on the first line then, NO! Avery is a complimentary player on that line. He is better than Hossa was yes, but without Jagr on that line I don’t like him there. Problem is worst case scenario we will need to replace, Avery, Shanny, Jarg and Straka next year and that spells rebuilding. If I had to overpay him I would overpay him for one year, but I don’t liek that idea either.

    Besides realistically where is he going to get paid $3+ million per year??

  29. “realistically where is he going to get paid $3+ million per year??”

    IMO? nowhere. But we’re ALL speculating on what we believe the negotiations are.

  30. Prucha Fan – on the previous thread there was some discussion about prucha’s place in the lineup. If you’re interested in the opinions here, you’ll find it there. enjoy!

  31. Shanny and Avery are boys. I had dinner with Shanny last summer and asked him who is favorite teammate was and he said it was Avery. Said they are real tight. I beleive they sit next to eachother in the lockerroom too. Salty and Beer Me got it right.

  32. At times, Sean Avery is the best player on the ice for this team, the most capable of changing the game.

    His penchant for taking bad penalties seems to be a thing of the past, and what’s happening now is that he’s having calls thrown at him (or not given to him when he’s tripped/hooked/etc.) because of his reputation. It’s hard to argue that he’s played the game largely devoid of his “antics” which, by the way, changed the entire Atlanta series in last year’s playoffs by irking their two best players.

    Comparing him to Chris Neil based on statistics is foolish, especially in hockey, a sport that has more to do with emotion and effort than any other. Since he’s been back healthy, he’s been playing out of the stratosphere of guys like Neil.

    Also funny how people credit the upswing in scoring to playing with Jagr. A lot of people on here wanted Jagr traded a week ago…but I digress.

    My point is that Avery is not an expendable part of this team. He means more than any “unsigned d-man to be named later” and any other pesky forward in this league. To not re-sign him is an absolute disaster and, as ridiculous as this sounds, will probably mean the Rangers will miss the playoffs next season.

  33. Salty I’ll say it for ya. Prucha27 there have been articles before about how Shanny and Avery have been spotted out on the town together numerous times carousing and what not, not for the team but together for fun. Bars, fashion shows, etc. Shanny is one the reason Avery has become the player he is. He’s helped to reign him in and make him a better locker room presence not a pest. Besides this a blog about the rangers not freaking page six look at what we are posting.

  34. Prucha27….just when I thought you were going OK with your comments you add some assinine comment about what Shanny said to Avery when he was on the OTHER team. How silly is that? And the extent of what he said was, “Do that again and I won’t be your friend!” That sounds like EXACTLY something I would say to a guy I was buddies with on the other team. Come on man. Again, Shanny was the one who convinced Slats to get Avery. Nowadays they are saying stuff about each other like my bros and I say to each other. Shanny and Avery are pals and I would bet my season tix on it.

  35. rob c – I swear to god that my brother just said the same thing you did…almost word for word.

    If league-appointed aribtrators rule on salaries/contracts based, in part, on statistics, it seems pretty fair to use them in a forum such as this.

    If you think that Avery on or off the roster next season will determine if we make the playoffs or not, I think you should rethink that statement a little. I don’t want to completely discredit Avery’s presence. But I don’t think the teams ability to make the playoffs rests on his shoulders. Afterall, he wasn’t here in ’05-’06.

  36. This whole Avery conflagration reminds me of something:

    Avery is one of nine unrestricted free agents for the Rangers. They include are first defensive pairing, the wings on the first line, the two alternate captains, and two other defensemen.

    Additionally, there are two restricted free agents in the top two lines as of yesterday. I know many of you want to blow up the older part of the roster, and I agree in a big way. Making a commitment to these younger forwards (Dubinsky, Dawes) just like they did on defense (Tyutin, Girardi) is in line with the professed dedication to youth.

    However, there are probably a couple of steals among our current crop of UFAs. While the most talked about is Avery, who doesn’t seem to give to pucks about a home town discount, players like Shanahan, Jagr, Straka, and maybe even Jagr’s #1 Fan Rozsival, would all be willing to sign at below market value for the chance to stay together.

    If that is the case, I don’t see a reason for the Rangers to not be able to both resign their youths till their UFAs while maintaining their veteran presence.

    In between one and three years, the vets will retire, just when the current star players (Gomez, Drury, Ludqvist) will be reaching their primes, and plans will be made to pass the batton forwards.

  37. Parros – Good, I stand corrected. I’m even glad I was wrong!

    But better to hear it in a story like that than some wild speculation. Obviously, you can’t tell anything deeper from a quote you read in the paper.

  38. All smiles today huh? Maybe I should take the weekend off more often…

    I’d really like to keep Sean. But it’s also a good point that without Shanny around to reel him in every so often… you might see more and more of the dark side of him emerge.

    Again, I’d like him, a lot. He’s certainly replaceable, but, not easily.

  39. New Newman – I could really care less what you think of my posting, to be totally honest.

  40. zg – you almost had it there. But @ 31, if Drury is not in his prime… I don’t know man.

    one other thing RobC – “Also funny how people credit the upswing in scoring to playing with Jagr. A lot of people on here wanted Jagr traded a week ago”

    There’s some truth to that for sure. However, I think when most people were calling for Jagr to be moved, it was based on his lack of production. Looking at it in the view of how he can open up ice by being double-teamed(sometimes) and you have a winger on the other side that’s reaping the benefits. Why wasn’t it working with any other combo? If Jagr retires(who knows) does the productivity continue?

    I don’t have the answers. And only time can answer them. It’s a gamble for sure, and the wager is a multi-million dollar, multi-year commitment.

    I almost don’t care what they pay him. but so help me if Slats throws a NTC at him.

  41. Happy to help Prucha27

    Now who else is pumped up for the home at home this week vs the Fishsticks!!! Thank God they traded that d-bag Simon – what a freak he is!

    LETS GO RANGERS!

  42. Doodie Machetto on

    Fuck him. He is too frequently injured, and sure he’s been good lately, but he was pretty much a nonfactor for most of the season. I also think his being good now is also partly due to how great Dubinsky has been, and from getting more space from playing on Jagr’s line.

    It’s a roster spot we could use on another player (hello Prucha) and money we can use on another D-man.

  43. zg, I’m sorry, but

    1) We don’t need ALL of that “verteran presence”
    2) Gomez and Drury should be in their primes *right now*. To “wait around” to give them the tools they need as individuals to be successful is beyond absurd to my mind. We need to literally cater to those two guys on ice needs, starting the second this season ends, because I firmly beleive they have both been wasted this year, and could have been used much more effectively.

    Get Gomez at least one wing that can keep up with him, it is *crucial* to this team going forward.

  44. haha – doodie you kill me sometimes man. lol

    I’d like to keep him around, but the asking price may be too high.

    My prediction…He hits the open market on July 1st. Signs with the Rangers for the deal that’s on the table right now by 7/10.

  45. Doodie Machetto on

    “as ridiculous as this sounds, will probably mean the Rangers will miss the playoffs next season.”

    You’re right, it is ridiculous.

  46. STILL KILLIN ME!

    What’s going on today? How come I’m agreeing with Doodie and Salty? I think I may be getting sick.

  47. Beer Me-

    Obviously statistics hold some weight…to totally discount them would be silly…but Avery is starting to put up numbers anyway. He seems to have the speed and skill to be a 30-goal guy in this league…just look at the pace he’s on now.

    I was obviously exaggerating about them not being able to make the playoffs in 08-09 if they don’t have Avery, but it was to make a point about how valuable he is, in my opinion. I’m deeply biased because I’m a HUGE Avery fan. Despite his now occasional antics, he’s a throwback player who approaches the game the right way. He skates hard. He hits. He makes the smart pass. He can finish. He’s fiery. He cares about his team and its success. This is where I disagree with those who claim he’s selfish.

    I just think this team lacks an edge without Avery and guys like him are not easy to come by. He’s such a perfect fit in New York, I don’t think you can put a price on him.

  48. Avery’s taking a big risk here by playing hardball (no surprise there though). IF he can keep playing like he has the past few weeks the gamble WILL pay off and Sather will overpay him. BIG IF.

    His production is sporadic and his health is a serious concern. Not to mention that even when he is playing well… other teams can and will take liberties with him that WON’T get called… (and he has to be an angel to stay out of the box) which makes production that much more difficult and in Staher’s words he can be “a detriment to the team at times”.

    Bottom line… Avery doesn’t want to leave and knows that going elsewhere may make him more money (I can see another team signing him just to get him out of a Rangers uniform) but I doubt he would be recieved in the lockeroom or by the fans the way he has been here.

    He’ll sign in off season for 3-3.5M for 2 years (if he stays healthy).

  49. Avery has been treated like a rock star by Ranger fans and he’s been given the benefit of the doubt more than any other Ranger it seems. He’s even been able convince some fans that he is the most important Ranger, although that is a bit delusional. I love him too but there is a side to him that is immature and selfish. There was no need to bring this to the press unless he’s trying take advantage of the fan’s affection for him to force management into a better deal. Shanny was right it was better when he let Jags do his talking. I still think and hope a deal will get done and Avery stays a Ranger.

  50. Doodie – have read your posts and you seem to know what you are talking about but Prucha over Avery. Are you insane. Prucha is thru. I’m sure he was shopped at the deadline but no one wanted him. He hasn’t done a thing since his rookie season. Let me ask you this – which headline is more believable.

    AVERY’S ANTICS HELP THE RANGERS SOVE THE DEVILS IN FOUR
    or
    PRUCHA POWER RANGERS PAST DEVS IN FOUR.

    The opponent and the score I just threw in there for a little color but my point is can you really imagine Prucha doing anything to single handedly win a playoff round. I would say no way no how. He might score a goal or get a couple of assits… but turn around and win a series… I seriously doubt it.

    Avery did it last year with Atlanta.

  51. Prucha27, it’s obvious you don’t care about what I think of your postings. If you did, you would stop making stupid ones for me to crush.

    Avery and Shanny are friends. Period. End of story.

    Next you are gonna ask when Prucha will replace Dawes or Betts….again!

  52. RobC – I know there are a LOT of huge avery fans. And I accept that people are bias in this debate. And I like Avery too. The games are often more fun to watch when he’s there.

    But where my line of thinking is taking me on this one is that he’s not worth to other teams, what he’s worth to us.

    You named a lot of positives there, that are mostly true. But I’d like to see some reasons why you don’t think he should get what he’s looking for. Put yourself in the GM seat and fire away the same way. Just try it. Don’t worry, Sean will not find out if you said bad things about him. And it won’t make you less of a fan.

  53. Question:

    The Rangers are currently opperating at 90% point efficiency over the last seven games. They have 16 points out of a possible 18. They are sixth in the league in goals against, and are currently getting scoring from three, sometimes even four, lines.

    Question is: Do you want this exact same lineup back next year? Why, or why not?

  54. I also would love to keep Avery, but I simply can’t understand how he thinks he is worth more than 2-2.5 million. He has been in and out of the line up all year, and I agree with Sather (sorry), that some of his outbursts are detrimental to the team environment. This “going public” does absolutely nothing to better the team, in fact it is completely distracting.
    Don’t get me wrong I love Avery and want him here as a member of this team but at some point enough is enough

  55. This is not good…

    Avery is an emotional guy. The chemistry is not something to mess with – what with 16 games to go and a team sitting in the bottom of the playoff picture.

    This is not needed at this time in the season. How can it not be a distraction to the player and consider that the player is a very outspoken, emotional personality.

    How can it not be a cause of distration to the team if said player turns negative? I don’t like this one bit. I think it is worse than the arbitration friction from last season. At least that was post playoffs…

    Not good.

  56. zg – I’m going to borrow something if you don’t mind:

    Question:

    “The Rangers are currently opperating at 90% point efficiency over the last seven games. They have 16 points out of a possible 18. They are sixth in the league in goals against, and are currently getting scoring from three, sometimes even four, lines.”

    I want to change the question though…

    Why would Sean Avery go public with this RIGHT NOW?

    And that works right into Staals prev post too.

  57. I would love a similar lineup but with some new faces for sure!
    No Malik, Strudwick, Shannahan, and possibly Straka and I really don’t see Jagr going anywhere unless he wants too much money-He’s not worth the big bucks anymore.

  58. Staal Wart:

    I must paraphrase this:

    “I would love the same lineup, but with a new top defensive pair and two new top six forwards and a new top 9 forward.”

    This is the same?

  59. Avery helped us into the playoffs last season and with this and possible other distractions Avery could be the player who helps us miss the playoffs this season.
    Oh Avery went public now probably because look at the Rangers record with Avery healthy and playing his best…unfortunately its taken 60 games for him to be his healthy best.

  60. Doodie Machetto on

    Beer Me, my point is that it sets a bad precedent to give him money. Then the next guy that goes in Slats’ office will say he wants comparable money.

    For instance. At my painstaking effort, I’ve compiled this stat. When Nigel Dawes is in the lineup, they are 25-15-5. 28-9-4 with Avery. Statistically, they are similar. In fact, without Avery’s recent hot streak, Dawes has Avery beat.

    Suppose Avery is looking for 3.5-4 million per. What do you pay Dawes then? He is gonna say: I’m statistically similar to Avery, we win at a good percentage when I’m in the lineup, but in addition, I’m younger, I have higher upside, I take far less penalties, and both of my wrists are fine. I understand you value him a little higher, so I’m willing to get paid a little bit less. How about 3 million per?

    Would you pay 3 million a year to Dawes? Absolutely not. Let’s get over everyone’s man crush for Avery and just look at this from a realistic point of view. Overpaying him will have bad consequences for the rest of the team. He’s not worth that much money. He doesn’t draw penalties the way he used to, he is injury prone, and without his hot February, he’s got 4 goals and 11 assists in 29 games.

  61. New Newman – You really haven’t crushed anything. You stated your guess, which just happened to be right. Parros stated fact.

    That being said, if these little victories give you something to live for, then by all means, whatever it takes to get you through the day. Enjoy! You apparently need it much more than I do.

  62. AAAAAAAAAMEN doodie.
    (BTW, I was being serious when I said you were ‘killin’ me.)

    I actually did that same research back around December looking for the rangers record with and without Malik in the lineup. The findings: we were above .500 Hey, take it for what it’s worth, but I always say…If you’re going to use that stat for him, you have to use it for everyone. Could that record with Avery in the lineup have anything to do with Hank being on one of his good streaks? So I totally see what you’re saying, and totally agree.

  63. I am not convinced that the same lineup would be the way to go.

    With Shanahan (39), Jagr (36), and Straka (35) all on their possible last contracts, I wouldn’t be surprized if the Rangers took out a pad of paper and wrote down these numbers:

    19,23,17,15
    51,5,41,55
    30

    25,10,24,20,44,28

    This is the list of player’s that belong to the Ranger’s contractually. It includes 4 centers, 6 wingers, 4 defensemen, and 1 goalie.

  64. Doodie Machetto on

    Here’s another 2 arguments against paying Avery what he wants:

    1) We paid Straka 3.3 million for the outstanding first half of the season he had last year, where for about a month and a half he was far and away the best player on the team. He finished with 70 points in 77 games. Avery has never even had 40 pts and he wants more money than we gave a 70 pt player?

    2) The player to whom Avery can best be compared is Darcy Tucker. Avery might agitate a bit better, but Tucker is a much better hockey player. Tucker gets 3 million per, nd he plays for a team NOTORIOUS for bad contracts (it also has a NTC). So, even assuming his contract is good, he scores significantly more points and goals than Avery, every single year. In other words, there is no way that Avery is worth more than 3 million a year to any team in the league.

  65. Jay…WORD! Scroll back to the top of this string of emails. This was exactly what I meant when I started by saying, “Like we really need this now….” And it does go to Avery’s personality to do it at this time. All about ME not about TEAM with Avery, most of the time!

    Prucha27….I have said this before many times and no one cares to believe me…but I really don’t give a S. I have a friend who is on the inside of the NYR organization. You call somethings opinion, like, “Prucha should take the place of Betts or Dawes.” I say things that I know to be fact like, “Shanny and Avery are pals.” Sometimes I opine that so and so is better than someone else. But I don’t make opinions based on stuff that is able to be proved.

    Remember this past fall when I told everyone that Malik was shopped in LA last summer? Everyone said I was full of it and was just stirring crap up. Well, it turned out to be true. The guy I am friends with told me as much.

    It’s when you support your baseless opinion (Shanny hates Avery) with some utterly stupid comment about what Shanny said to Avery during a game when they were on opposing teams, that causes me to throw a whole bag of “Shut Up” at you.

  66. Doodie Machetto on

    On a different note, it looks like with Sjostrom and Backman here, Hollweg and Strudwick are going to be able to play A LOT of Rock Band.

  67. Beer Me –

    To try and play along, here are three reasons I wouldn’t want Avery back (this is not easy, haha)

    1. His reputation and its affect on the ice. This has thoroughly been on display the past two games; yesterday’s diving incident and the 10-Minute misconduct in the Carolina game. Sean committed no infraction in either case but was still sent off the ice. This is potentially detrimental to the team because the league and officials hate Avery, even if the hate is misplaced.

    2. His quotability off the ice. While it provides colorful fodder for fans and journalists, it could also motivate the other team. Aves definitely has the potential to provide “bulletin board material” for opponents.

    3. Injury prone. Perhaps it wasn’t an issue until this season, but he has picked up at least two hand/wrist injuries this season. This might be cause for concern.

    Definitely a good way to think about the situation, but I think it’s clear that the positives outweigh the negatives. In a perfect world, you shouldn’t have to overpay for any one player, but certain instances call for unconventional decisions. This, I believe, is one of those instances. This guy just fits…I don’t know how else to say it. Avery, despite being hated around the league, is loved in the Rangers locker room. He’s even able to make Jagr smile!

    I would give Avery a deal of 4 years/$12 million, plus incentives (games played, staying below a certain number of PIM, points, etc.).

    One final note: I think this halt in negotiations has to do with Slats trying to keep Avery motivated through the end of the season and the playoffs. It seems like it’s the right psychology with a guy like him, as opposed to more even-keel guys like Girardi and Tyutin who already signed extensions.

  68. ZG,

    In that list of yours two questions.

    1. Who the hell is #41, Valli is 40 and not signed

    2. Where is #18??

  69. doodie – the newsday article I linked above states that it’s believe that Avery is looking for around 2.5/per.

    It’s us, speculators, that are saying 3.5

    No one really knows the #’s. It would be absurd though to think that if he’s only looking for 2.5 the deal would be done. Unless it’s a DP/Ovy deal.

    Rangers sign Avery: 15years $37.5mil. LOL

  70. Escalating contract, 4 years, 12.5 million.

    2.5, 3, 3.25, 3.75, option for a 5th year at 3.5

    MEET HIM IN THE MIDDLE SLATS. There IS a dangerous precedent being set here – the Dawes example. However, I don’t see Dawes killing penalties, agitating opponents, etc. He’s a different kind of player. To compare Dawes and Avery is to compare Teemu Selanne (a pure goal scorer) to a guy like Dino Ciccarelli.

    By the by – whoever compared Neil, Tucker and Avery – Neil is an enforcer more than anything – he’s an enforcer who doesn’t drop the gloves. Tucker is a better comparison. Avery should make SLIGHTLY more than Tucker if only because Tucker is NOT the spark plug of that Toronto team – he’s not the guy that really makes the team riled up.

  71. New Newman – I shouldn’t matter to you what I believe. My opinion wasn’t baseless, it was based solely on quotes that I read in the paper and on blogs. I didn’t preach it as gospel, I merely made a comment on how it “sounded” based on that.

    Turns out I was wrong, it happens.

    I just don’t see the point of you getting so bent out of shape about it, and getting sort of aggressive, that was really unwarranted.

  72. Doodie Machetto on

    2.5 is a little different of a story. If he’s really looking for only 2.5, it’s a little harder to justify not being able to make a deal.

    Not at 2.5, mind you, but something close. Like, 2.25 or something.

  73. Beer Me – 2.5? Is Slats really pennypinching Avery like that? If Avery wants 2.5 I’d give him that in a HEARTBEAT. In fact, I’d give it to him 6 times over, as in 6 years, 15 million.

  74. Actually I was doing a little comparison….for those who care:

    Darcy Tucker has 24 pts in 59g this year, Avery has 25 in 41g.

    Last year, Tucker 43 in 56, Avery had 48 in 84, but 20 in 29 with NYR.

    2yrs ago, Tucker 61 in 74, Avery 28 in 55. 3yrs ago, Tuck 32 in 64, avery 39 in 75.

    So you could argue that there is only a small difference in points between the two. Also, Avery is 5 yrs younger than Tucker.

    Tough call.

    And lastly, let’s not forget all the extra sounds (and sometimes noise) that all the mgmt hears from players and personnel on the team as well as other GMs around the league that factor in their decisions. Clearly we can’t know all the stories and what goes on behind the scenes in these negotiations.

    At the end of the day: supply, demand, and replacement value. That is what determines what Avery will get.

    I am not sure, but I am guessing what is opined on Rangers Report MIGHT NOT factor into Avery’s contract.

  75. Rob C – thank you for a fair and complete assessment. And I agree on both ends of it for sure. I can’t tell you what that # should really be. I don’t think anyone including Slats & Avery could either.

    Some of the facts that are scary is that we don’t know if it’s the chemistry with his linemates is just that good or if he’s hitting his stride and showing us what he can produce. And with one of the linemates only a year or two away from retirement, why lock him up long-term?

    Also, being that we don’t know if the production will keep up, AND also don’t know if the injuries will hamper him throughout his career. You’d kinda have to believe that hurts your negotiations.

    I just don’t know at what point you say: “then walk”.

  76. Prucha27….Sorry man…Slow day at work and we have the Fishsticks in a home and home coming up. I am fired up with nothing to do!

  77. Also Prucha27….you wrote: “My opinion…was based solely on quotes that I read in the paper and on blogs.”

    Let me teach you something. It is simple and true, and in this day and age if you don’t follow it you will get in heaps of trouble. Don’t believe anything you hear and almost none of what you read and only a fraction of what you see.

    With the internet and photo shop and blogs and cut and paste, you are just asking yourself for trouble if you don’t have a massive filter on the information that floats by your brain.

  78. The only thing that’s real hard to compare Avery to Tucker with is the contracts. The ONE thing we’re trying to do. The reason I say it’s hard…Tucker plays for TORONTO! Don’t we all know what kind of F’n mess Ferguson created up there? Yeah, Tucker makes $3mil, but doesn’t earn it. At least in my opinion and that of fans of the Leafs.

    Rhommy – If Neil is just an enforcer, I’d much rather have him than Orr or Avery. His point totals in his career are better than Avery’s. And he’ll fight the big guys. … Unlike Sean.

    I want to say again though that I DO WANT to sign Avery. I’m just trying to play both sides on this one.

    And as far as the 2.5 mil goes. that’s coming from that Newsday article. I’m not making it up, and I have absolutely nothing that can prove it right or wrong.

  79. SIGN HIM FOR 2.5 NOW!!!!!!!!!

    Please.

    Although… if that’s how “far apart they are” I don’t believe it. That’s what? 600k.

    Come on! Sounds worse than that… it has to be.

  80. Doodie Machetto on

    Rhommy, Dawes killed penalties in Hartford. He hasn’t been given the chance to yet, but there’s no reason why he couldn’t. They’ve already started showing Callahan, and my bet is Dawes is next.

    As for Avery being paid more than Tucker, how can you possibly say that? Tucker, when his contract was awarded, had just put up 60+ pts 2 years before, 43 pts is 56 games that year, and had had 3 consecutive 20 goal seasons. Avery has yet to crack 50 pts, is yet to score 20 goals, and even with his current hot streak probably won’t do it this year either.

    Most importantly, he doesn’t agitate as well as he used to. Ever since the Blake incident, he hasn’t really drawn very many penalties without taking some himself. He’s just not worth 3 million, end of story.

    2.25 million 3 years.

  81. Avery is currently on a torrid pace. In the past eight games, he has six goals. Over a season, thats 61 or so. He is currently playing on his team’s top line. He kills penalties and plays on the power play and is in great shape conditioning wise.

    He could see himself as a poor man’s St. Louis, in which case he could be asking for top line, all star numbers. That would be in the range of 4 to 6 million a year with a long term.

    He and Dubinsky play well together, but he hasn’t clicked, as far as I know, with either Gomez or Drury. The only reason in the world why Avery is on a top line is because Jagr and Dubinsky are meshing like bedfellows. Take either away and I don’t think he looks like a top liner.

  82. beer me

    career totals – chris neil

    443GP 58G 65A 123P 42+- 1,099PIM

    Avery

    363GP 61G 98A 159P 13+- 1,037PIM

    I’d say Avery’s on a much better pace ;/

  83. Doodie Machetto on

    Beer Me, I pointed out Toronto’s recent notoriety in bad contracting when I gave Tucker’s numbers. Not even thinking about whether he is being overpaid, which, he is, just looking at the numbers in a straight comparison, without the subjective valuation, it’s not worth it.

  84. Doodie Machetto on

    zg, something else that I had pointed out earlier. Just because he is doing well right now with Dubinsky and Jagr I think is more of a reflection of just how good Dubinsky has been, and the added space you get from playing on a line with Jagr.

    Look at Avery’s goals during this hot streak. A couple of softies, and a lot of garbage. Whic is fine. But you don’t pay a garbage goal scorer 3 million bucks.

  85. Avery did well against Atlanta (who didn’t?) last year but was absent against Buffalo. I think he is a tad overrated.

  86. rhommy – thanks for the research. Do you think you can check those GP’s vs. how many seasons it took to do it? I think I’d still take either one though.

    doodie – do me a favor…post something that I don’t agree with, would ya? Somethings not right today.

  87. What a fun day on the blog huh? I’m outta here, check back later Ranger Fans!

    Avery … Hat trick tomorrow night vs the ‘sticks. ;)

  88. He also gets 2 or three breakaways a game… courtesy of the attention the other two draw and their playmaking abilities.

    I dunno.

    Maybe the contract talks “were” close and then once Sean stepped it up, HE walked away raising his price.

    Outlandish?

  89. Let’s assume Avery signs somewhere else- is he going to play on that team’s first line?? So another team is going to sign him for let’s call it $3.5mill a year for 4years (assuming that is what he thinks his worth is) to play on their 2nd line??? I don’t see it. If he wasn’t public enemy number one he would get the money, but he takes penalties too. Yesterday with his Superman leap for example, i mean jesus he should have shot the puck not tried to fly like Clark Kent.

    How about we scratch him and put Hollweg in his place??

  90. I was just kidding with the Hollweg comment boys and girls. Just felt like stirring the pot some here.

  91. I was kidding about the Hollweg comment. Just wanted to stir the pot alittle here

  92. Bottom line is this- Avery wathced guys like Gomer, Drury, Henrik,etc get the kings ransom in yearly salary and now he wants his fair share. The success of a team is measured by WINS and WINS only….If Gomer had 100+ points this year and the Rangers record sucked, would us fans still be excited? Hells no! Avery in the lineup give this team a higher chance to win hockey games….He has shown he puts it all out there…holds nothing back on the ice….which is alot more than I can say for the large amount of pansies that took big $$ from the Rangers and skated around like a bunch of douches…..Give Avery 3 years @ 3.25mm and lets call it a day!

  93. zg, please READ what I wrote, I said I would love a similar line-up. Similar does not mean same, it does mean, “having a resemblance”
    So I said a similar lineup with a few new faces.
    I do not stand corrected

  94. Doodie Machetto on

    “Give Avery 3 years @ 3.25mm and lets call it a day!”

    Thank God you aren’t the GM.

  95. This is Sather’s overpayment coming back to bite us. Fish stated on his site once he epxected Toots and Girardi to account for 3-3.5mill per year with new deals, well Toots got 3 by himslef. And again I’m sorry but Hank was RFA (this is why he didnt go to arbitration) and as such we could have matched any offer, does anyone really think someone would have given him MORE than we did. We can’t overpay everyone, and with raises for Dubi and Dawes it looks like Avery will be odd man out

  96. “Thank God you aren’t the GM.”

    Yes…thank goodness…because if I was the GM..I would be installing a winning tradition to the NY Rangers year in and year out. Furthermore I would be accessible and media friendly to address any questions or concerns about my hockey club.

  97. I find it funny that everyone says that the only reason that Avery is scoring now is because he is with Jagr and Dubi, and they open the ice for him. Then, can you tell what is the difference now with that line on fire and that line earlier in the year, when Dubi played with Jagr. Avery, is what has made that line click and given them great chemistry. He is worth the 3 mil a year.
    Did anyone see the segment on the top 3 must have players during the intermission of yesterdays nbc game. It was Avery, Ott and another guy. It seems that others appreciate his value.

  98. PJ:

    Henrik would have been signed to an offer sheet last summer if we hadn’t taken him to arbitration. If that had happened, do you really think that it would have been for less than what he got now?

    An offer sheet contract represents the highest offer that any other team is willing to make for a restricted free agent. If you are so convinced that it would be less than what we ended up paying, why would they have avoided it like the plague?

  99. LONE RANGER, are there any current GM’s on the NHL NBC? I thought not, so above means nothing. It is the GM’s that do not like him.

  100. Moreover,

    Why would other teams lock their RFAs up way before the summer? Buffalo is overpaying for Tomas Vanek because he received an offer sheet. The Rangers, Flames and Pens are underpaying Henrik, Dion, and Sidney for this very reason. Dustin Penner is being paid top line power forward dollars at a very early age, when no one would confuse him with Tomas Holmstrom!

    By making an offer sheet to an RFA, two things can happen, both strong for the offering team. They get a player they would never have otherwise gotten at a contract they are happy with (after all, they made the offer) or the home team matches, in which case they end up paying MORE for a player than the otherwise would have.

    The draft pick compensation is irrelevant to GMs who’s jobs are on the line, as they won’t be around for them to be missed if the player doesn’t pan out.

  101. ZG- they avoided it as it took away control from NYR. Realistically what team would have given Hank $7mill per year???? and if they did then we could justify it. We bid against ourselves and overpaid.

  102. eff the guys who doubted this. I broke this news from hnic 2 days ago.

    and Sam, what you wrote is dead wrong. Avery being out injured showed even more why they need him,. because they were under .500 without him, and are 42-17-11 I think with him.

    so, his value should have been more apparent when he was out.

    and I don’t see you writing about jagr and his selfish personal contract goals with the same negative tone you used in saying if you were Avery’s teammate you would not like etc.

    it’s obvious you are biased toward jagr, you show that all the time with your fawning crap about him.

  103. Richard, this is true but you did not address the first part of my post. Do you not agree that since Avery was added to the first line, it got Jagr going and the line started to click big time.

  104. loneranger,

    I’d put forth the fact that Dubi has matured and excelled at a nearly alarming rate as one reason. Avery is a part for sure but don’t discount the other factor(s).

    Might I also say that I feel Jagr is just now starting to realize he can’t beat every d-man (d-men) one on one anymore and that he needs his linemates to create space just as he must create space for them.

    The puck movement from months ago with ??? – Dubi – Jagr is light years away from what you see on the ice currently. There is still some down low work… but the goals and chances come off of rushes.

  105. yeah, you’re right loneranger, let’s see jagr with his other line combos this year. oh, he did shit without Avery. with gomez and straka he was having his poorest season. so, avery gets the pouting craptain going too. and dubi is a big part too, obviously.

    I love how the fans know it, but the forum board amateur GMs and cake-eater sather himself think they can deny the obvious.

  106. Here’s why the line clicks now:

    1) Dubinsky has grown in leaps and bounds since then. Look at his play during late December and January as proof of the fact that he was MUCH better than he was when first on Jagr’s line. For a while I would not have hesitated to say that he was the best forward on the team.

    2) Jagr has stopped trying to do everything himself. This has made him a lot better since he is clearly unable to do everything by himself anymore. As such, he is actually capable of building some chemistry when he is actually playing with his linemates as opposed to having his linemates play with him.

    3) The rest of the team has started to click offensively, making it harder to shut down Jagr when you have to concentrate more of your defensive effort across different offensive threats.

    Did you see how Jagr sliced up Philly when they were giving him space? Even Eddie Blowczyk could see it.

  107. bs. the great skating by Avery and dubi on the left side of the ice and down the middle, opens up space for poutass to get a much easier path to the net with the opp team worrying about the other 2 guys.

  108. Dude, no one will ever guard Avery over Jagr. That’s why Avery ends up with as many breakaways as he does. Other teams don’t respect him enough to cover him. They double team Jagr and cover Dubinsky.

    Avery is a C+ offensive talent. There, I said it. Let me turn your argument on you. Where was Avery’s point production BEFORE he was with Jagr and Dubinsky? Nowhere. At least Jags and Dubinsky were still getting points, even if it wasn’t as much. Avery is NOTHING offensively to this team if he wasn’t playing with Dubinsky and Jagr.

    The guy that deserves the most credit is Dubinsky. End of story.

  109. Dave,
    Not trying to stick up for Sam here, he’s a man and could do that himself, however, I don’t see in any of his posts “fawning” as you say, over Jagr.
    You sound a little bitter man.
    I do believe that you are fawning over Avery.
    Sure he’s not a bad player in fact he has been quite good since join Jags and Dubi.
    It is Averys absolutely retarded comments to the press that make him an idiot, and the distraction that this team does not need.
    I’m not a huge JJ fan and I never have been…
    I could understand people fawning over Jagr though. He is one of the greatest players of all time. He like Gretzky, Lemieux, etc are players that would classify as “fawners”
    Avery…nah nothing to fawn about.

  110. this coming from the dope who said Parise was no good. you know squat about hockey, as your judgment about Parise was so outlandishly stupid.

    the only C+ on that line is poutass. Dubi and avery are the guys who make it go.

    guess what? over the last 2 seasons, with jagr in the lineup, and before they got Avery and with him out, they are under .500

    so jagr, over a long sample, has done squat to win games here in the last 2 seasons.

  111. You guys and your “this guy makes the team win” and “the team can only lose with this guy” and “trade him!” and “trade for him”…They are all hockey players, and aside from a very very few in the world, there are dozens who would produce the same results in the same positions.

    For example:

    Jagr, Dubinsky, Avery are producing at a strong clip, and have been for, like, seven games. This is true, but the fact that other teams have other lines that also produce at strong clips means it can be done with people who’s names are not Avery and not Jagr and not Dubinsky.

    Stop fetishizing the players!

  112. You have a good point about the Ranger’s record when Avery is in the lineup. I wanted to do some more digging, and I found some interesting statistics.

    The Ranger’s, this season, have a winning percentage of 100% when outscoring their opponents!

    What do you make of that!

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