Actually, it’s more complicated than that


A quick thought over yet another double-decker peanut butter and jelly sandwich (hey, diapers are expensive, so something has to give):

After games like last night comes the inevitable sentiment that the whole one point for a shootout or overtime loss is a pathetic consolation prize. There’s no question that column does water down the standings, and if ever there was a night when the Rangers deserved to go home empty-handed, it was last night.

And yet having said all that, there’s still really no other way around it. I doubt I’m breaking any new ground here, but it’s worth repeating that the up-and-down, gambling nature of 4-on-4 bears little resemblance to the three periods that preceded it; and that the shootout has about as much to do with deciding the better team as a contest over who has better uniforms.

The point is that if the Canadiens had another few minutes of regulation to work with, they probably win the game outright given their momentum. But as it was, the hockey game itself ended in a tie. Everything that followed falls into a new category.

That’s my opinion at least. But that might just be the peanut butter talking.


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  1. If they have to keep overtime and the skills competition shootout, then do what they did when they first instated regular season overtime in the early 80’s. Winner take all. 2 points for the winner, none for the loser.

  2. NJBD, completely agree with you in principle. For now, we just feel lucky we didn’t come away from last night empty-handed.

    We need 26 of the possible 40 points to reach last year’s total of 94 pts, which of course got us the 6th seed a year ago. That means going 13-7 down the stretch. Extremely doable.

  3. Nothing last night discourages me about the Rangers chances… they got a point and played pretty well … I think Lundqvist could have done better but overall it was just one of those games … remember Rangers came back from an 0-3 discrepancy to beat Montreal 5-3 so paybacks are a …

  4. Doodie

    I’m not sure if the link I posted to YouTube worked, but I suggest you go there on your own and type in “Jagr” to see graphic evidence of how wrong you are.

  5. Statistically speeking, what does a number 1 center or forward look like? How much does one cost? Are there any players on the rangers that will fit the description in two years?

  6. I dont get why people are so worked up about the game. It was actually one of the best games I’ve seen this year just due to the comeback. If anything, this SHOULD make the Rangers a better team from now on. They got a ponit and can move on. Its not like due to this loss, they immediately suck and need to trade everyone. They are starting to put it together and look like an offensive powerhouse that they should’ve been. They just need to understand that no lead is big enough and they need to keep firing away and skating hard and scoring in order to win.

  7. I agree with Jonny D. I’m not concerned about the outcome – its one game and they did get a point. My only issue with the game was the lack of physical play. The Habs played physically and with impunity. They had a lot of high elbows and Dawes is lucky he got out of the way of that hit.

    They ran our players and the Rangers didn’t respond. We needed someone to really hit Kovalev, Koivu, Higgins etc. With Orr out of the lineup someone needed to step up.

    I can’t understand why Holliweg or Strudwick didn’t fight Komisarek to send a message. Dubinksy gets credit for his effort but he obviously can’t fight and it doesn’t deter anyone if the threat is a joke. I maybe give Avery a pass due to the healing wrists.

    Frankly, I think Shanahan should have mixed it up with someone. God knows Jagr (despite his size/strength) and Straka aren’t going to put anyone in their place. Shanahan wears an A, it would have been a good lesson for the young guys and its not like he’s never fought.

  8. how about one column in the standings- wins?

    do you think you would see teams sit back with a tie game late third period (or overtime in the pre “loser point” days) if you gave ZERO to both teams for a game ending in a tie? Give nothing to those who “play for the point”!

    Since the shootout is here to stay maybe 2 points for a traditional win, 1 point for shootout win and 0 for a loss?

  9. JJP, I agree with your post 100% and said something similar earlier. As soon as we were up 5-0 they just put a pounding on us. Nobody retaliated. We went in to a shell and that was it. I wouldn’t have even minded someone on our team giving someone a cheap shot to shake things up a bit. But nothing happened and the rest is history. No pun intended.

  10. Since the shootout is here to stay maybe 2 points for a traditional win, 1 point for shootout win and 0 for a loss?

    That is not a bad idea at all. It will force them to go for it in OT.

  11. I’m sorry, that ” we got one point, it’s no big deal, blah blah blah blah blah” is crapola.

    That was a horrifying collapse on the shoulders of everyone on that team. I’m gonna keep on tuning in and I hope the Rangers win the Stanley Cup.

    But shame on them for allowing that to happen and shame on them for being a team that hasn’t played 60 minutes all year.

    That sucked s–t.

    And, god-dammit, now I’m jonesing for PB&J. Thanks, Sam.


    Since Jagr has been a Ranger, he has not had “moves”. The point has already been made that he’s more of a chess player on the ice than he is a stickhandling dynamo that fakes people out if their skates. He knows (knew) how to exploit weaknesses in the opposition and pump the puck through a goalie. He was never a Bure, although I’m sure you can find *highlights* where he might have had a couple of moves. You can say the same thing for Cam Neeley though.

  13. As for shootouts, would they end NBA games with a dunk contest? And, the shootouts not even that tense a spectacle since only one point is being won…

    Okay, I need to turn off this internet business for a while.

  14. Shanahan wears an A, it would have been a good lesson for the young guys and its not like he’s never fought.


    He should be worrying about keeping up with the play and getting his shot off, not trying to pick a fight with someone.

    I’d like to see someone fight Jagr and beat him until he pissed himself. I bet he’d start scoring goals after that.

  15. Dr. Ogrodnick bows to Leetch on

    This was the kind of loss that sticks with a team for a while. Hopefully it doesn’t, but it wouldn’t suprise me if this loss sends them into a 3 or 4 game funk. Way to go conservative Renney, way to be unable to direct this team from the bench.

  16. There is a problem with the arguments used by those who oppose the extra point. While it is true that the standings get bunched up because of the extra point, (teams that lost in OT/SO do get a point and can move up), the problem is that winning an important game in overtime is 50% as effective as winning in regulation. With the teams competing very closely, the difference between an OK team and a great team would be the great teams ability to keep standings points away from their lesser opponants, and steal the consolation point away from their equals.

  17. HA SALTY! Write down this date. This may be the only time we agree on anything this year!! Shanny just came back from an injury, fighting is the last thing he needs to do.

    Buffalo then Florida…3 out of 4 points on back to back nights would be acceptable. Especially if Vally gets one of those starts. no?

  18. Oh please stop moaning. Rangers screwed up with Lundquist – he can not stop anything. They shuold trade him if they can. Lundquist for Richards straight up. Make Vally our number one and bring Montoya. I am sick of watching Lundquist play. Thins team is going nowhere with him in the net. They should either trade or sit him down for the rest of the season. He is a hole not NHL goalie. I blame him for yesterday’s loss. I don’t care if they win all of the games after this one – they are still not making it past the first round in the playoffs this year.

  19. onecupin67years on

    i never liked the BS.tie system and bush league for the “Nuveau” fan not the hockey purists.It waters down the game and i believe the players have less incentive to win “gee boys we got a pt tonight, ehh”

  20. Lundqvist for Richards? I can’t believe what I hear on this site sometimes. Everyone hates Hank now. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Maybe we could have paid less for him, but the guy is a top goalie in the league. And we would not even be in the situation we are in if not for his play to start the season.

  21. onecupin67years on

    Sam, why doesn’t the NBA have a free throw contest for games that end in a tie,home run derby for tie games in the baseball, and a field goal contest in the nfl for ties? bettman’s trying to make hockey like soccer to garner more

  22. I agree with Ivan and Nasty. I would like to see 2 points for the win and 1 point for an OT win and 0 pts for a loss. A loss is a loss why be rewarded.

  23. Beer Me I actually even meant to respond to you about Renney’s crowd quote until I saw something else I had to copy/paste/respond to.

    Agree 100% that was more a shot at the MSG crowd than it was about MTL.

    Although I am still very curious as to WHY MTL did not get a penalty for the delay with the banners on the ice… wtf? Is there a time limit they have to get it cleaned up or something?

  24. The Canadiens are the types of team that you see if you make the playoffs. So build the Rangers to be like the Canadiens or Senators or Red Wings, or Ducks are. If you want to make the playoffs and succeed. Thats all I got to say. The team as is is not able to play the best teams.

  25. I like changing the rules so that there are 3 points up for grabs every game. 3 points for a regulation win, 2 points for the OT/shootout winner, with 1 point to the OT/shootout loser. Then no more “phantom” points to junk up the standings, and teams will get rewarded with how “well” they win the game.

    Hopefully that will create an incentive for teams to play hard for all of regulation instead of easing up in the final minutes to guarantee a consolation point. The league added the guaranteed point so that teams wouldn’t go ultraconservative in OT, but now they are doing so at the end of regulation. They didn’t resolve anything, just repackaged the problem.

    And hopefully one day the shootout gets phased out regardless. It’s a gimmick that’s growing old real fast.

  26. what it came down to is that THEIR CAPTAIN had moves and clutch play and late-game leadership in him, and ours had his usual choke in him.

  27. Until I see a losing streak that is a direct result of last night’s disaster or we are mathematically out of the playoffs, I am not going to pinpoint games that “ruined” our year. It’s not worth it. They have to just get back up and focus on the next game. Simple as that. You can’t dwell on the past unless you are over and out. You can look for things to build on and things you can try to correct, but you can’t let it get to you. The players definitely have to look ahead. Why should we let it get to us so much. I am a fan as much as anyone in here, but seriously guys. This team has turned things around a bit of late. And I have said a million times I will take whatever point we can get. Yes, we blew it big time last night, but it happens, get over it and on with the next game. This team is going to make the playoffs and then who knows what happens. You can jump down my throat and ridicule me for saying that, but you never know what can happen. We can back and beat the habs on superbowl sunday and they returned the favor last night. These kinds of games happen. To be so negative because of it and to cry about it all day today is ridiculous.

  28. Kirill,

    Last night’s loss cannot be pinned on any one player – Lundquist didn’t pick up the slack for the team D, but it’s not all his fault. Some of those goals were from 10 feet out in the center of the slot.

    That said, I think he could have been the difference maker in the 3rd, but wasn’t…

  29. Whoever said Hank for Richards is a joke of a fan.

    You know maybe last night can be chalked up to a letdown and nothing more. Sometimes teams just shit the bed. Say what you want about Renney and whatever the coaching staff does or doesn’t do and what ever our ghost of a GM does or doesn’t do. When it gets down to it there are 19 players dressed every game who have the chance to make something happen (we’ll let Vally slide since he was riding pine). Someone has to step up don’t wait for the coach to do this or do that, step up. This is on all the players not the just Hank, not on Renney. When each line and d pair jump the boards they should be saying this is the shift where i win the game. I’m looking forward to Saturday now to see this team take a step forward.

  30. I say you come right back with Hank in the next game. Let him just play now. He was fine in the last two games. Any goalie would have played like that last night. The D was awful in front of him. Folks, just because we were up 5-0 doesn’t mean we owned the game from the opening puck drop. Watch the game again. Montreal is one of the fastest teams in the league, right up there with Carolina. Our team defense against fast teams has been suspect all year.

  31. salt – I don’t think there was a delay of game b/c it was in MTL. If I remember right, I’ve seen that crap in boston a bunch of times in my lifetime and never see the penalty called.

    hockeypuckz – agreed. ‘blame’ must be equally shared on that one. I’m ready to move on.

    nasty – you know I’m with you on your 3:11 post.

  32. Doodie – We tend to view the situation similarly and be on the same page about most things. Would you have been miffed if the Rangers won in the SO? I was hoping they would, but I was later satisfied that they didn’t. It makes lasts nights collapse a little harder to sweep under the carpet when you don’t pull out the win.

  33. On a completely unrelated note:

    I’m glad to see that Darren McCarty is making a comeback to the NHL. And that the Wings are “close to offering him a contract”. Though I don’t know him personally, I’ve always read good things about him, saw some interesting pieces on him on tv as well. I am a fan of his play and person. He went through some tough financial times(filed bankruptcy) right around the time his play slipped and he exited the NHL. Good to see the guy back.

  34. Guys, I agree that last nights loss is not only on Hank. But c’mon when was the last time when he was actually solid? When he would bail out the team when they needed him? I mean Jagr and Shanny will be gone next year, but I still do not see our top goaltender – he gets rattled every time once he lets in a bad one and then it is all downhill from there. So far from what I have seen from Hank is he can be on fire for half of the season and then he just magically disappears. All 3 seasons that he played for the Rangers it has been the same. So I do not know if he is one the top goalies inthe league although his numbers suggest it. Having a good half of the season does not make him a top goalie. I am sorry for ranting – but this whole team is built like crap. YOU DON’T LOSE IF YOU ARE UP 5-0, YOU JUST DON’T!

  35. Beer totally with you on Darren McCarty great tough guy who was always fun to watch when he was in Detroit.

  36. LES STUPIDES FANS of Montreal can all go and spank their little tiny shoe string french fry of a le putrid pricks.

    What were they giving away last night–Le portable spank rags?

    They booed when the refs called icing against their Habs–they are all ignorant of hockey and are all blindly stupid drunks.

    Actually, I would trade Renney right now for one of those special spank rags. He did nothing last night when his team needed him most. During the timeout-he said his “come on boys.” and that was it. He’s pathetic.

  37. Kirill, I think something you and many fans seem to forget he is still a young goaltender and he’s going through some growing pains right now. I assure you he will be the best player down the stretch and if he isn’t I will let you tell me what an A-hole I am.

  38. Hockeypuckz :

    Well, the last time I have seen Hank step up was in the begining of the season – when Rangers could not score a goal even if their life depended on it. So I don’t know, I hope I am wrong. We’ll see.

  39. stopwiththefourthlinealready on

    We all want a defenseman for this team and campbell is clearly the best available…. So I ask myself what is a fair offer that might work for both teams. Keeping in mind that we do not want to mortgage our future for a potential playoff run, especially one under renney, here is what I think we should offer.

    Marty Straka and Michal Rosival for Brian Campbell. I think both teams if they thought about it would do it and here is why. Straka has a nonstop motor but realistically is old and underperforming these days. He probably will not be resigned anyways. We have lots of young kids who have the fire and deserve the playing time(prucha will be back soon, hossa, greg moore, anisimov, Paranteua, Bourette). Straka on the other hand would help the sabres as a player who can play all 3 forward positions and play at any time and maybe more importantly for them a leader. Brian campbell would instantly become the rangers best defenseman, and would spark our Power Play as a Leetch type. And lastly the sabres save face by getting something useful in return, not just letting campbell walk like drury and briere, and not mailing in their season. In rosival they will get a defenseman that will be able to contribute for a possible playoff run this year, sparking interest for their fans.

  40. All in all. Its great to see the Rangers offense come through huge in the last 3 games. 12 goals in 9 periods of hockey is exciting to see finally. Dubinski, Calahan, Dawes, and Stall are beginning to contribute positively every night. That is a great sign for me. The bigger minutes defense corp of this team is M I A nightly as Henrik struggles to stay on his feet longer and not flop around as much. It makes the goalies job a huge amount more difficult. That being said, 12 goals in 3 games helps the defense and the goalie quite a bit. I will bet if the Rangers keep scoring at this rate , they will make the playoffs and they will go far into the playoffs as well. There is no antidote for more goals on the scoreboard than your opponent has. It always results in a win. While there will be a night like last night here and there. The prospects for winning are greatly enhanced when the Rangers are scoring a lot of goals.

  41. Kirill,

    I agree with you on your assessment of Lundquist – just not about last night’s debacle. I think he’s been inconsistent and he’s not even close to justifying that he has really earned that huge contract. I have said consistently that it was a mistake to reward him so early.

    I like Tyutin’s comment after he resigned about how he plans on proving that he deserves his wage increase. Lundquist should take notes…

  42. forthline – that’s not even close to enough for campbell. It was rumored that they would take Sanguinetti and then some for Campbell.

  43. Also, the team toughness needs to be addressed. As soon as Orr is out of the line up the other teams can whatever the hell they want. I mean I understand trying to stay out of penalty box but someone should have taken Komissareks head off for all the crap he was doing. And Begin should have been ridden into the wall for the high hit on Tyutin. They got pounded into submission last night.

  44. stopwiththefourthlinealready on

    I bet they would accept that…. you may have to take a bad contract back too though. Possibly Kotalik or Kalinin. But I wouldnt be too quick to write it off. They are thinking about prospects right now but its not out of the question that they make the deal and go for it this year. Maybe resign rosival who would cost way less than campbell

  45. buffalo would not want straka anyway. they would want younger lower paid players in return, like Girardi and sanguinetti

  46. Also, the team toughness needs to be addressed. As soon as Orr is out of the line up the other teams can whatever the hell they want. I mean I understand trying to stay out of penalty box but someone should have taken Komissareks head off for all the crap he was doing. And Begin should have been ridden into the wall for the high hit on Tyutin. They got pounded into submission last night.


    AGREED, what exactly was Strudwick playing for last night if he wasn’t going to go after Begin or Komisarek. We all knew Dubi was going to fight him but he was still a prick after the fact. Even Mara could drop the gloves. I got punched in the face twice last night in my game let me tell you something it’s not horrible. Team toughness is definitely an issue with Orr out of the lineup. The other need to man up in situations like that. Hollywood was one of the leaders in FM’s his first year they guy hardly drops the gloves now he just runs guys and pisses people off. Homeboy need to fight to show he isn’t just a Rockband allstar.

  47. stopwiththefourthlinealready on

    Buffalo needs leadership… and you know what if i had to trade girardi and straka for him instead of rosival it would be worth it. Campbell is young you would have to re sign him and you have staal and tyutin and sauer and sanguinetti and baranka and all these young defenseman. I like girardi too but they cant all be here forever and you have to give uo something to get something

  48. Sam when the NHL decides games the same way in the regular season as in the playoffs, or at least plays one full 20 minute OT period 5 on 5, it might step up from WWF territory. It needs to be changed, but so does buttman & his refs that handed that game to the fans in the stands.

  49. Doodie Machetto on

    bklynblue, you can’t have 20 min OTs in the regular season. The way to do it is to make Regulation and OT wins worth more, and shootout wins worth less.

  50. you don’t get it pal. sabres do not want straka, or any other washed up vet. their payroll is the main issue for their tight owner. that is why they let vet UFAs walk year after year.

    they got burned having to give outlandish money to keep Vanek after he got an RFA offer from edm, and golisano is not a big spender

  51. Rangers owned the first half of the game and the habs owned the second half of the game end of story! They both had the chance for the extra point in OT/Shootout and habs got it no matter how it was played. Its part of the game now …..just like all the phantom calls…WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT!

  52. the owners love the phony point system now because it allows them to pretend that everybody is “over .500″ and that “getting a point” covers up the reality of a loss.

  53. Good point about the O clicking and scoring goals. I like what I see in that regard. But why is it that the D cannot keep their side of the bargain up when the O is clicking? Same thing when the games are 1-0. The D is playing out of their minds and the O is sucking wind. Can’t we just get a string of games where their O is clicking and their D is not doing stupid things? Is that too much to ask?

    I mean I know the type of games dictate the type of play. But when you go up 5-0, you would think someone would say, “Gee we need to keep doing what we are doing and taking it to them.”

    Oh wait, that goes back to the first discussions on the blog I had last night about questioning the ability of a certain person who kept claiming that the Montreal fans won the game for the Habs.

    We go in circles….Or, I go in circles I guess.

    And BTW, the discussion about that same person taking a shot at the fans of the Rangers by complimenting the Habs fans….that is a load of horsepoop. We are paying fans (season tix since the early 70s) and this is NYC. Either get the F-ing job done or get the F out of town. Don’t make excuses, not take any of the heat, and then blame the fans.

    I don’t throw crap on the ice (none of us do) though very often we should be allowed to based on the product we pay to see.

  54. The coach I want for the Rangers is that double talking guy on the NHL Network commercials. At least his double talk is humorous compared to Renney’s double talk.

  55. Orr misses one game and all of a sudden people who said he is useless and should be replaced realize that players have a role to fill. some folks on this site kill me. They hate the fourth line until they realize they have a function.

    Here is a possibility that many won’t like. Jagr scores 80 points and we are out in the first round of the playoffs. That would bring him back for at least 1 more year. I think chances are almost 50/50 with the sudden scoring.

  56. I don’t like Jagr at all, and want him gone, but I am sure he will be back no matter what, because they are playing in prague next season opener, and I doubt they will do that with belief the entire czech posse is gone.

    that is why I am livid about them playing there. it entices the rangers to keep guys who should be gone to make room for more kids like Dubi

  57. One question – How can a guy score 54 goals without having any moves. Some a youze guys have got to be kidding?

  58. One question – How can a guy score 54 goals without having any moves.


    You’ve completely missed the point. If you reread the last 2 threads, you will find your answer!

    Bottom line is it depends ho wyou define “moves” because there is a certain type (see 1 on 1, breakaway deke-ing, etc.) Jagr’s 54 goals in NY came largely from screened shots from the right boards on the PP. Couple that with popping in plenty of goals all from *shooting* pucks from the perimeter… and it’s really not that difficult to understand how a player can have 54 goals and not have moves. Kovalev had moves in NY but did not have goals. I score goals but I’m the fisrt to admit I have zero hands, I use speed and positioning to have my small success. Sure Jaromir Jagr has made SICK moves in his career, but it’s not his “bread and butter”, never has been. Being ridiculously strong on the puck and finding a way to get his once unstoppable shot off is where Jagr racked up his 1600 points.

  59. Bring back Lohan on

    Hey, I want to address something on Lundqvist. Does anyone else notice a big change on his approach since he returned from the back to back Vali starts? Seems that he is in a mode where his one and only goal is to stay positioned well and stop the puck, putting the idea of not leaving juicy rebounds on the “back burner”. In other words, he’ll knock a puck in the corner instead of stopping it for a face off, or he’ll stop a puck with the idea that his D will clear it out instead of covering up for a d-zone faceoff. Does anyone else see this lately? I mean to be honest, he is playing exactly like (I hate to say it) Weekes did last year. I mean exactly like him, everything to the corners, and the tough shots equating to stoppping the first one so a juicy rebound is left there for the taking. SO when the team has played sharp like the last 2 1/2 games he played well. But when the opposition was outplaying us like the last 1/2 game, we couldnt keep up. There were no stoppages, nothing to stop the bleeding, no d zone faceoff (which we are good at) to take the pressure off. So many pucks left in our own corners only to have a more aggressive, faster skating opposition there to abuse us. An observation I would like your opinions on…….

  60. NYR, did you watch his goals 2 years ago. He was fat and out of shape. He backed in like he was posting up in basketball and would just turn and shoot. After the shoulder surgery, he promised to get himself into shape and be able to skate somewhat like he used to. He lost 15 pounds, worked on his skating, and became a better overall player.

    Jagr is 35, almost 36. Hes got a bad shoulder, hip flexor, and groin. He’s trying to change his style of being a “Me, Me, Me” player and has turned into a guy that is trying to show other guys how to do things right. Sure hes not vocal, not all captains are. However he is leading by example, even though most of you don’t see it.

    And I just laugh at people complaining so much about last nights game. It happened and the only thing they can do about it is just move on. Take the positives out of it, which is pretty much the 1st half of the game. And look at the negatives as a point to play the whole 60 minutes. Some of you…most of you actually clearly never played hockey and weren’t in a situation like what happened last night. To just complain that its all Henkes fault when 3 of the 5 were deflections or say that this game has ruined the season and they need to trade people is just a joke. Sure it wasn’t good what happened to them, but you just gotta move on since you can’t change it and learn from it. I think this team can do that. I’m not saying they will, but they definately can.

    Jagr never played defense, yet now hes the 1st one back on the backcheck (except when he takes extended shifts which is the one thing i’ll say he needs to stop doing). He’s looking to make other people better and getting them the puck instead of shooting it all the time or trying to do everything himself. Hes going to optional skates to work with Dubi and other guys on stuff.

  61. Doodie Machetto on

    Interesting on Lundqvist. I did notice that he hasn’t had that amazing rebound control that he once had when he was first entering the league and thinking of where he wanted the rebound to go before making the save.

  62. look, a goalie is either hot, or he’s not. case in point, Ty Conklin. he is on the roll of a lifetime. he has never played better in his whole career.

    sometimes things go right, and confidence builds, and it becomes the hot stretch. like Dubilewicz of the Isles last season at the end. he got on an unconscious roll and got them into the playoffs. can he do it all the time. no way. is he better than DiPietro, no way.

    that is why I prefer the ride the hot goalie system. you win you play again, you lose you sit.

    that creates the best incentive for goalies to stay hot.

  63. Salty — I got to be honest, when you start referring to your own hockey skills in a discussion of Hall of Famers, you lose me.And the original discussion was a response to somebody’s stupid remark that Jagr had no moves, not that it wasn’t his bread and butter. But that he had NO moves. You at least qualified your point, and I respec tthat. But no moves? Ever? You know that is an insane thing for the guy whoever it was to write.

  64. I also noticed lundqvist leaving lots of rebounds lately, when in his first season one thing that impressed me most about him was how he swallowed everything that was shot at him, and honestly I think a lot of it has to do with positioning. It’s easy to swallow pucks up when they strike you in the chest or hips, but if your stopping everything low with kicks or high with the blocker, it’s very difficult to get a handle onto the puck and hold onto it. So perhaps the positioning he was at one point so known for has left him at this point in time… it happens to me and other goalies I know from time to time, just sorta lose your reference points on the crease and the ice, not saying any of us are pro level, but I’d imagine pro’s would be prone to the same kind of little glitches from time to time… I think he needs to go back to basics and work on things like positioning and timing, and for christ’s sake stop trying to handle the puck already…. All that said, I still think he has a great goalie inside him, possibly the best in the league and if not that then two 3 certainly, he just has to find that again, and perhaps the best thing would be for him to sit a few, it’s hard to get your instincts back when your still playing constantly because every error leads to a further setback

  65. Jonny D — Go look at the Ranger dvd of the ’05-’06 season and tell me after u see Jagr’s MANY bursts around guys and then dekes on Esche, DiPietro, Raycroft, Belfour etc.

    and then come and explain what fat and out of shape is. 54 goals 69 assists — all right the guy is not the greatest ever, Bobby Orr is, but the overstatements on this site are hilarious.

  66. let’s see. a 20 y.o. kid is showing jagr how to play, and you are claiming jagr is leading by example. hah, it’s the other way around.

    jagr sure led by example last night when he loafed off the ice while the habs had a 3-on-2, and he basically gave them the first goal, which ignited their comeback.

    yeah, some example.

  67. You at least qualified your point, and I respec tthat. But no moves? Ever? You know that is an insane thing for the guy whoever it was to write.

    I’m not comparing myself to hall of famers. I’m just pointing out that players can be successful on all levels if they know and play to their strengths, Jagr’s strengths were never about beating a guy through the legs and then amking the goalie look silly.

    And this all started from the arguement that Jagr “has no moves” for the shootout, which is true. Same goes for Drury. Same goes for Shanny really, however, he scores.

    Sykora = moves
    Nylander = moves
    Malik = best move ever ;)

  68. Dallas Stars cut ticket prices 10 years

    I like it. hope it becomes a trend.


    We’ve got to rekindle our lost fan base,” says Cogen, who helped bring the team to Texas in ’93 and returned last November after a stint with the Rangers. “Take them back to a happier time.”

    In conjunction with the 10th anniversary of the franchise’s only title, fans buying full-season tickets for 2008-09 will be afforded 1999 prices. Wow. Tickets which this year cost $53 per game will next year cost $33; the $33 ticket down to $21. Other bargains will permit existing season-ticket holders to move down 10 rows for the same price.

    “It’s a bold strategy,” Cogen says. “We’re basically cutting-and-pasting ticket prices right from Reunion Arena 10 years ago.”

    Something needs to be done, and kudos to the Stars for doing it.

  69. nyr – I remember him doing it, but that was mostly last season. He even said he was out of shape. He had 24 ppgs that year, a lot of which were one timers. Then his other goals, especially against the flyers were just him backing in. I’m telling you what Jagr said about his own game. He said he needed to be faster and lose some of the excess weight. He did that, which is why he has the ability to go one on one again, something he couldn’t do on 05-06.

  70. “Either get the F-ing job done or get the F out of town.”

    You said it right there. You said EXACTLY WHAT I HATE about ‘those’ fans. It’s because guys aren’t around long enough that it doesn’t work! You’ll have to take Mike Keenan out of the equation here…But if your theory is correct: the ‘get out of town’ one, THAT’S exactly why this team has one cup in last 6+ decades. You have to stick to a plan to fruition(spell?). Either it’ll bomb or you’ll have your name on the cup. But 2 years isn’t granting ANYONE’s plan enough patience.

    Relax man. There was no ‘blame’ being laid on anyone. It quite possible could have been just a statement first of all. Second, HE’S RIGHT! ‘get the job done…’ you’re probably the first one to boo when you don’t like way a player tucks in his jersey or has blue skate chasis. IF he was taking a jab, it’s deserved.

  71. Bring back Lohan on

    Dan and Doodie, Im not so sure that what you are seeing the last 3 or 4 games from him is a result of being off though. He really looks like he is changing his approach. I never played hockey other than against my garage in middle school with my friends in the 90s, but I have watched a lot of hockey and like to analyze it. Maybe some of you future HOFs can chime in on this as well. Is it possible that his throwing of rebounds into corners (or at least attempting to) is a result of a coaching decision. In other words, the slow it down, take a faceoff when in doubt attitude slows the game down and doesnt let you transition quite as well. But putting it into corners or behind the net and moving the puck quickly does create more offense. So when your team is on top of its game and is skating and winning loose pucks, you can turn that into more offense (ergo the last 3 or so games). But when you are a bit slow, on your heels (like most would be in blowout game) then it leads to a shitload of chances agaisnt. I guess my point is, is that I think maybe his play is a result of a coaching move not necessarily his goaltending being off. Am I being stupid or is this a possibility…..?

  72. Doodie Machetto on

    Lohan, when you’re being crushed by the other team’s forecheck, maybe stopping play and taking the faceoff is the better decision, no?

  73. Lohan… agreed to a point. Though I must say it’s also looked to me like Hank hasn’t been ABLE to freeze the puck as much as he’d probably like to.

    If you look at the goals in the two games prior to last night (and various other times throughout the season) you’ll see a very well postioned goaltender “fighting the puck”. He makes the initial save but loses it quickly after.

    Against Buffalo one squeeked through his pads… same against San Jose. There was at least one of those last night.

    A goaltender that’s “ON” will be able to make the initial save and do whatever he feels is the best play with reguards to the rebound… or on really good shots… whatever he can do… which may be a deflection into the corner/crowd.

  74. Doodie Machetto on

    Riche, I agree with you completely.

    Flyers traded away Vandermeer for a third rounder. If that’s his price, we should be able to get at least a 4th rounder for Malik, no?

  75. Bring back Lohan on

    yeah I agree Doodie, Im not saying I agree with it, im saying thats what it looks like he’s doing. Got to slow it down sometimes…..

  76. lecavalier dogged it back on the 2nd goal. they gave up a 3 on 2 to vnek with less then 2 minutes to go.

    lecavalier dogged it I saw with my own eyes.

    2 more points given away by a team…

  77. Yea Lohan I agree that it is probably a bit of a coaching decision, which is a mistake in my book, let the dude play how he was good at playing, im sure him attempting to handle the puck and make passes now is also a coaching decision in some ways… Honestly, I think right now he needs to be left along and find his own way, rather than be tinkered with by a coaching staff, and the team needs to then learn to react appropriately to how he is going to play… he was obviously doing something right at some point or another… To me the issue is just he is thinking about his game rather than playing it… We all get it in most anything we do, you do your best when your just reacting out of instinct and gut, when you get into your own head and start micro-analyzing, you just get in your own way and think yourself into little holes that you get stuck in… and to anyone who says “they are professional athletes and that shouldn’t happen”, I think your forgetting that they are humans too… Hank is a 25 year old guy, same as me, sure he’s a WAY better hockey player than I could ever be, and has tons of money, but take that away, and he’s a 25 year old guy, living in a country that he was not raised in, in the biggest city in the world none the less, and under tons of pressure. Has he been not so great lately? absolutely…. but who on this team has been GREAT lately? nobody…

  78. the rangers should trade for Liles from Colorado.. He would be all they need to be a very competitive team, he can really skate, better nad younger and faster then boyle…

    I think he is a UFA at the nd of the yr. so the avalanche may be interested in trading him

    trade malik or mara , montoya and 2 other prospects/picks…..

  79. stuart – I wish they would’ve made that trade 2 months ago when it was first rumored. But I remember then asking for Prucha. Which I am fine with. I don’t see that being a deal that will be made ‘straight up’ though.

  80. According to the Post today we are in with a good chance of getting Boyle, his NTC means he can almost demand to be traded to the Rangers so we may be able to get away with giving TB a little less.

    Also it mentions a Rucinsky for Malik deal with the Blues.

  81. I don’t know, any deal that gets rid of Malik has to be strongly considered. Rucinsky is a good penalty killer and he could replace Hollweg on the 4th line. Get JD on the phone and make that deal.

  82. Problem is I doubt they are going to put Rucinsky on the fourth line if we get him. They will probably play him with Jagr because they are buddies. And moving Malik leaves us thin on D. I know we all hate him, but we need a D man. From somewhere, and not from Hartford. We need a proven first line guy.

  83. Rucinsky -NO NO NO
    How many times has he been here? Why why why would we want him back? Let the Blues Keep him, go after after Boyle and Campbell if we can, trade Malik, and a few prospects. (Montoya?)

    I still think, even though it may be improbable, that Campbell would be a fantastic addition to our team. Imagine him with Staal? What a pairing.

    Boyle would be a well rounded choice as well, PP set up man with a shot. If not, I hope Sather doesn’t do something stupid (NO RUCINSKY!) 5days until we know for sure who will be in blue and who won’t

    As far as JAg’s and Hank are concerned, I think Montreal happened, and it’s over, nough said. we got a point, albeit a disappointing one, and now we go to Buffalo then have Florida at home, so it’s another huge weekend where we need all 4 points (i’d take 3)
    The islanders are on a roll and creeping up on us, as is Boston and Buff, as there all only a game or two behind us.
    We have to concentrate on whats coming not whats already happened
    20 games left = 40 attainable points
    My optimistic predictions:
    14-5-1 = 96 points, or
    13-7-0 = 94 points or
    12-6-2 = 94 points
    which hpefully leaves us around 4-6 in the standing
    And of course there’s also the option of God interveining, JAgr Shanny Straka Dubi Cally and Avery going on a tear, Hnak playing prime time hockey leaving us with:
    19-1-0 = 106 points
    BUT, I digress

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