A goalie controversy?


OK, maybe not.

But Tom Renney said he’s still contemplating his choice in goal for tomorrow against the Caps.

Was that even a consideration before today?

“No,” the coach said.

My vote, which counts for nothing:  go back to Stephen Valiquette.

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  1. I would say put up a poll, but it’s obvious that practically everyone here wants to se Valiquette again. Since he’s considering it, I’d say he’s actually gonna use him.

  2. play vali tomorrow will he have a other shut out probably not but they will win get henrick signed in the next 5 days and then he comes back to playing like he should. How does that sound to everyone

  3. Gomez said in the post game they just play good against the east teams and just don’t play well against the western teams.

    At this point, I wouldn’t bother signing HL for next year. If somebody gives him an offer sheet, let him go for the 5 draft picks. Between Valiquette, Wilkman and as a longshot Montoya, we should be adequately protected in net for next season.

    If nobody signs HL, sign him moderately for next season and let him battle it out with the other three guys. Definitely sign Valiquette again.

    Some players start out looking like they are world beaters and eventually the opposition figures them out and their production drops considerably. Prucha, although I still like him, and Tyutin are two of those guys and it looks like Lundqvist is another. Similar to some pitchers in baseball who the batters can’t figure out at first but eventually, after seeing enough times, the get on to him and start pounding him.

    Too bad about Jagr. I don’t think his shoulder has ever healed properly and without that blistering shot, plus he has definitely slowed down through age, he looks more like Marcel Hossa out there. He can still rag the puck but is definitely a liability defensively due to his usual unwillingness to come back into the defensive zone when necessary.

    Time to dump him, Straka and Shanny after this season. All three had solid NHL careers but it’s time to move on for all three.

    Just hope the lion doesn’t do something stupid like giving up kids for 38 year old relics. I wouldn’t bet on it though!

  4. They won’t get rid of the kids… maybe 1 though… I’d still say Prucha or Dawes (although I would rather see Dawes stay)

  5. What happened to the days of riding the hot goaltender without FEAR of hurting someone’s feelings? Play Valiquette until he loses, or at least until he looks shaken. He looks MIGHTY confident out there while our other superstar goalie looks like a shell of the man who took us to the playoffs last year. Maybe Lundy needs the pressure. Who knows. All I do know is that he’s been giving up 3-4 golas per game even when they do win; and while that might not be entirely his fault alone I haven’t seen him save a game in a long time.

  6. I’ve noticed things that I don’t like with lundqvist.

    1. flops way to much and reacts first before shot is taken
    2. gives up way to many rebounds
    3. Does not handle the puck well at all
    4. gives up way to many soft goals

    This has been lundqvist for most of this season.

    Did we as new yorkers over rate him or is it something else.
    What ever it is if the rangers want to make the playoffs and be more consistent than from what I’ve seen i would play vali, screw lundqvist. If I was sather I would not jump to sign him for big bucks and many years. I would wait and maybe even go to arbitration again.

  7. “What happened to the days of riding the hot goaltender without FEAR of hurting someone’s feelings?”

    I agree 100%…this overuse of goalies-league wide-makes no sense. I went to a great hockey stats sight;


    No goaltender has played over 70 games in a season and went to a Stanley cup (other than crazy Marty in NJ) since at least 1989—-(I went back thru the years and I stopped checking there)Anybody with as little of a life as me can feel free to go to the site and continue checking

    Point is, as great as people remember Ken Dryden and Billy Smith being-they were “definite #1’s” only in playoffs, during seasons they split time “evenly” with Bunny Laroque and Melanson and Resch before him…they were 1’s and 1A’s

    Anyone here remember Gilles Villemure? It didn’t lesson Giacomins legacy to split time with him did it? And JD? I don’t think he ever played more than 40 games

  8. Valiquette? Yeah, ok, tick off your franchise goalie like that. Sure, brilliant. Hank starts tomorrow, no questions asked. We’re not talking about Kevin Weekes here.

  9. WOW. Are you kidding me? We would not EVEN BE IN THE PLAYOFFS without the start King Henrik had. Are you guys absolutely out of your minds? Do you remember how good he was against buffalo last season or the start he had this year? Plus he was doing fine before the last two home games in which the TEAM didnt play well. I have no problem going back to Vally for the game against Washington tomorrow…Renney should do that, but to not give HL a longterm contract? Let him battle it out? Thats nuts…this guy is the best goalie we’ve had since Richter and your gonna let him walk? Great idea.

  10. That was a terrific win. That was some old school Hockey no? We had a line brawl along with plenty of gritty play throughout the game. Orr totally tuned up Cote. I wish the linesman would have let Avery and Richards go. This was a much better game by Valiquette then his last shutout where he faced very little shots and even less quality shots. Valley was on top of his game and even got lucky at times when he missed the puck with his glove and the puck went in. Valley’s best saves were on Jones and Lupul. The stick save on Jones was sick. ;upul went around Bozisival who was putrid again. Bozsival even dogged it on an icing where he he was beaten to the puck by Kapanen leading to the Flyers controlling the puck the next few minutes. Jagr had a rough game he had maybe 3-4 turnovers in the first and later in the game botched a couple scoring chances Marcel Hossa style. It is rather sad seeing him do that. The Dawes-Dubinsky-Prucha line was very good. They controlled the puck and outskated the pylon like Flyer dmen. Dubinsky though did take two unnecessary high sticking penalties. To he credit he did hang in their in a fight vs Richards. The pk was flatout great. They held the Flyers to only one shot their first couple of pp’s. Callahan looks like the Cally we knew and loved from last year. He was hard on the puck looked good on the pk and had a breakaway and as taken down but no penalty shot? These days they call for penalty shots for so much less. The pp lead by the Drury-Gomez-Dawes unit looked good. Nice second effort by Dawes on his goal. It was nice to see Renney come to his senses and use that unit as his top pp unit. Dawes and Drury got good traffic on Gomez’s goal. Staal had one of his best efforts. He was just a beast throwing the body, holding the line good on the pk. He is quickly becoming a top shutdown dman imo. Valley deserves alot of credit imo he’s the best Rangers backup goalie since Healy. It will be a tough one vs the great Ovechkin tomorrow afternoon. May God have mercy if Bozsival or Strudwick is out there against him. The need to stay out of the box and forecheck hard against a shoddy defense and fading goalie.

  11. Whoa… no way we let Hank go. He’s inconsistent I’ll give you that… but come on! The team isn’t playig well in front of him and he’s had some off ice issues.

    Sign him now (especially since he’s lost money over the past month or two) and then sit back and watch.

    IF he turns out to be a bust (big IF) then we have some guys ready to take over.

  12. I wouldn’t let lundqvist go but i wouldn’t rush in signing him for allot of money for allot of years either.

  13. I was just reading the recap of the game and saw this:

    “The Rangers are a good defensive team,” Flyers coach John Stevens said. “Their defence is mobile. They are big. They have been one of the best defensive teams all year.”

    Ummm…really? Seriously? Can I smoke from his pipe too?

  14. Well we don’t give up a lot of goals if you look at the GAA and where we stand up agianst the rest of the league…I say start Vali tomorrow, but it’s righ tback ot Lundquist…it’s no secret that Lundquist is our horse and that th eKing is going through a long slump, but he’s really the face of our franchise, the goalie of the next 10 years, and this will be a good push to kick him back on track…the days off alng with the sitting he’s doing this weekend will stir the ultra competitive Lundquist, we’ll be alright in net for the rest of the year…it’s the other places I’m worried about

  15. There’s one thing I know for sure and that is DP sucks for the islanders. Tonight minnesota had only 14 shots on goal and won 4-3. Enjoy DP for the next 10+ years islander fans.

  16. Valiquette is a journeyman goaltender. Did he even have to make one tough save all game long. All this talk about playing Valiquette tomorrow is a mistake in my opinion.

    When Lundqvist is in there he’s facing 2 on 1’s every other shift. He’s a world class goaltender who needs the team to play better in front of him. If this team is going to go anywhere Lundqvist has to play and the team has to play better in front of him.

  17. Rob L.,
    I hear what your saying about lundqvist but vali made some point blank saves that were excellent saves tonight. I mean the Flyers had 31 shots on goal.

  18. Shame on all of you who said to Stevie V. is not all that and that the Rangers should go after Cujo. Stevie “SPIDEY” Valiquette showed today he is the real deal. Way to go SPIDEY!

  19. Valiquette got two shutouts and that’s got to be worth something. Send him out again.

    If sitting a couple games somehow destroys Lundqvist then it was just a matter of time anyway.

    At this point I still think Lundqvist is a keeper and a winner. Even the best have some terrible games or slumps.

    In a lot of ways being a goalie is just like any other position, you don’t always have to score a goal or make a huge save every game, mainly you just have to make the plays you need to make, but to win somebody on the team has to do something that makes a difference.

    Rangers are just another team in the middle of a league with a lot of parity. (But yeah, we expected more.)

    I’m not predicting a championship, but I’m not giving up because:

    1. The way they got their act together last year.

    2. Nobody in the East has been consistently good.

    3. Gomez and now Drury are coming along.

    4. I still think Lundqvist can do it.

    5. A lot of teams that win in the end are kind of surprises.

    Plus, it wouldn’t be any fun to be a fan that way. :)

    “Never tell me the odds!”

  20. Adam and his apple on

    tom renney should have stripped jagr of the captaincy long ago, he doesnt lead by voice or by example, hes a bum, hes a malcontent, you can tell by his body language that he just isnt happy, the majority of his play is on the perimeter with his back to the net, im so fed up with his play, whos with me?

  21. Vally is hot. Hank has played like crap. Play Vally, let Hank rest and think about signing that stupid contract.

  22. No, I don’t think Jagr is a malcontent, I think he never recovered from his shoulder injury and got old at the same time. I think he is trying the best he can, problem is he’s finished!

  23. Valli/Valli/Valley should play tomorrow. And, you know, no matter what happens in his Ranger career, I think he’s going to finish up as a number one somewhere.

  24. Go with the hot goalie. Period.

    You won’t be messing with your Number 1 guy here. You’re rather relying on his competitive fire, to bring out his best, WHEN he’s called upon.

    If someone asked Henrik, HE”D say play Valli tomorrow…

  25. This made me laugh – “Steve Valiquette prepares for each start by spending part of his morning in a tub full of ice.” So I guess we’ll know if he’s starting if he’s really cold really early. It’s not a bad thing to sit down the number one guy once in a while. A lot of teams do it, playing the hot goaltender. Only aboutt a third of the teams I would guess have one established guy who plays no matter what unless he is injured. Otherwise, if he is playing badly and the backup plays well, the backup plays for a few games. I still think Lundqvist is the real deal, but he has not looked as elite as before.

    Rob L. – Valiiquette definitely had to make tough saves today, but I think there was only one or two through screens, only one he didn’t see. His height makes up for some things, too. It’s weird how he looks awkward, or at least different from Henrik, when he is in goal, but generally does a good job.

    lennynyr – Maybe Lundqvist should only get another one-year deal at this point, but then if he plays well again, they’ll have to sign him for so much more. I think the smart bet is to lock him up now, but his agent probably won’t go for such a discounted price.

    I’m still amazed at how that Gomez goal went around everybody on its way in.

  26. The only difference between Hank and Huet is that Han isn’t from france. They’re basically the same goalie.

    Shoot high and you can have alotta sucess, shoot low and you obvously don’t watch enough tape, you’re a moron, or you can’t elevate the puck.

    The idea of letting him go for 5 picks really interests me actually. I’m obsessed with the fact that Hank may have already hit his peak.

    I really wanna see how good Wiikman can be, and Montoya has better pedigree (and a glove hand) than Hank.

    Montoya could put up Hank ’07-’08 #’s EASY. Today!

    Either that or do a trade and sign with Tampa, gettin one of their big 3.. Many options, you should never be satisfied with your team.

    All of this aside, I hope Hank just turns it on tommorow and never looks back.

  27. Dunny,
    excellent observation, I agree about shooting high on lundqvist. That’s why i think us new yorkers have over rated lundqvist. The reason being is because the league has the book on lundqvist. lundvqist from what i have seen sometimes reacts before the puck is shot therefore given the shooter the advantage. Lundqvist has been flopping allot most of the year, giving up shots high and given up rebounds where Vali is a straight up goaltender like martin Brodeur and can handle the puck and doesn’t give up rebounds. That’s the botom line from what I’ve seen this year between the two goaltenders

  28. I am trying to say here is Lindquist has been flopping, reacting before shots, given up softies, rebounds, terrible at handling the puck for most of the year. Vali, doesn’t give up rebounds, handles the puck well and stands up and doesn’t react before the shot is taken. I think Vali should play more, maybe he is the spark. Since I’ve been following hockey and it’s been long, goal tending is the key to success to winning. I would play vali until he comes down to earth. Why not, what do the rangers have to lose? There struggling to make the playoffs now. Play Vali tomorrow, it’s a no brainer.

  29. I haven’t been sold on Lundqvist just because we got beat last year in the playoffs (thanks to Nylander icing the puck in game 5) and Lundqvist getting beat up top. Its something he worked on in the offseason and was doing at the start of the year, then he got back into his old habits of dropping down his shoulders. That combined with the fact that hes deeper in his net this year = more goals scored up top.

    If Allaire can get him back to facing the shooter and not dropping his shoulders right away, he’ll be back to being one of the best goalies in the league. I think long term he’ll be the real deal so we can’t let him go, he just need to work out of this slump. And Vally’s numbers when he starts are insane this year if you take away the Phoenix game which was 100% not his fault. He should start tomorrow to maybe get the team and Henrik focused.

    Don’t forget what Vally did for us last year. People don’t want to admit it, but he won that St. Louis game for us and all of a sudden the team turned around. Also, Jagr can’t buy a goal. I feel bad for the guy cuz hes trying so hard, almost too hard, but its like hes an old vet that is aging and should probably call it quits. He’s not fast anymore, his stickhandling is pretty bad, all he can do is just clear out in front of the net. Its a real shame because I know people don’t see it, but he really cares about this team winning. I really hope he either A) heals up or B) finds a way to turn it around just because hes one of the best of the generation.

  30. The Rangers play far better with Vally in net. Lunquist hasn’t played his A games for quite some time now. Keep Vally in until the Rangers lose. Maybe the competition will sharpen Lunquist’s game. Too many penalties in Philly. I’ve never seen so many block shots in my life. Great team defensive game.

  31. Dunny, Montoya can’t put up Lundqvist numbers in the AHL, what evidence do you have that proves he can do it in the NHL? He’s can’t even hold the #1 spot from Wiikman.

  32. i know this has not thing to do with the goalie situation but in recent month dubinsky has been arguably the best ranger and jagr has been struggling mightily of the last few weeks. earlier in the year when the team was in a slump renney put dubinsky with jagr and it worked with moderate success. so it stands to reason that it would work better the second time around. if renney is going to continue to juggle lines i think it would be a good idea. especially if these hypthetical combos wind up having callahan and gomez on a line together. gomez can set em up as good as anyone and callahan has been shooting the puck with force lately, could be a good match.

    as for the goalies…. in a dream world hank would start tomorrow and play lights out. although valli’s looked good he is obviously not a long term solution, this team will go as far as lundqvist can take them. ive been looking at this 5 day break as a possible turning point for the rangers and i cant see that happening with hank being pouty that he hasnt played the last 2 games. unfortunately you have to massage egos not break them down. so with that in mind i think it might be best to have hank in nets tomorrow. although you wont hear me crying if valliquette gets the starts.

  33. We lost all trade leverage with Montoya, we should’ve traded him last year…what’s going on with him in Hartford?…who is Wiikman?

  34. longtimerangersfan on

    It should be Vally’s net untill he loses it…”end of story.”

    Someone said that the Rangers played better in front of Villemure but I don’t recall that. I do know that when Giacomin was “right, he was roamin” meaning that he was a good puck handler behind the net. All goalies
    were “fair” game then too and could be hit just like any other player. IMO they sould go back to that rule.

    Sam and Joe were talking about when the league went to two refs that one would watch the puck and the other behind the play…they should go back to that as too many times the ref outside the zone calls penalties and the one right on top of the play doesn’t. They should also go back to the face shield rule if you fight with it on, and extra two minutes!

  35. longtimerangersfan on

    For all you “trade Prucha” people these are some stats from the Rodent.

    Even Strength Scoring
    Adjusted For Time On Ice
    Last Quarter (21 games)
    G/60 G forwards only
    1.75 6 Brandon Dubinsky
    1.19 3 Brendan Shanahan
    1.16 5 Chris Drury
    0.98 3 Petr Prucha
    0.78 1 Ryan Callahan
    0.73 2 Nigel Dawes
    0.70 4 Jaromir Jagr
    0.70 2 Ryan Hollweg
    0.60 2 Sean Avery
    0.44 2 Martin Straka
    0.36 2 Scott Gomez

    Power Play Scoring
    Adjusted For Time On Ice
    Last Quarter (21 games)
    G/60 PPG PPTOI forwards only
    4.23 2 28:21 Petr Prucha
    3.05 4 78:45 Chris Drury
    2.38 2 50:21 B. Shanahan
    2.11 1 28:29 Sean Avery
    2.01 1 29:48 Nigel Dawes
    1.37 2 87:36 Jaromir Jagr
    1.32 2 91:14 Scott Gomez
    0.95 1 63:23 Martin Straka
    0.00 0 51:28 B. Dubinsky
    I think that if Renney gave him a fair amount of ice time he would have better numbers too. The kid (always) hustles!

  36. WOw, I knew Prucha was being shafted on his time, but I didn’t realise exaclty how it shaped up. I wish he would get more time, we could really use numbers more like his rookie year.

  37. Colton Orr whipped Riley Cote big time.

    When was the last time we could say the Rangers beat up the Flyers?


    I like your points you made about Jagr, Henrik, Shanny, etc.

    I think this team will be much better off once the older players leave in the offseason. They have had great careers, and may contribute this season still, but it is apparent that younger legs are needed in today’s NHL, just a different game now than it was 10 years ago, although the game as a whole was better 10 years ago.

  38. Ovechkin, Backstrom, Semin, Green are not found on the Flyers roster. A win today will be huge for this team.

    Caps are one of the best in the East and have the best player in NHL on their squad, sorry Sidney and sorry NHL, Alex O. any day of the week.

  39. newsday is also saying that it’ll be vally again….which i’m happy about…that being said, i’m also concerned…washington is a completelt different team than the flyers are…

    the flyers are a crash the net and get the puck deep team, which vally has been great against

    the caps are a quick puck moving team who relies on passes and shots rather than crashing the net in order to score…

    i think vally lines up much better against the flyers and teams like that because of his size, but i agree with giving him the start today…big game! let’s go rangers!!

  40. And while I still maintain the position that there is nothing more ridiculous looking than a male over 15, who does not play hockey, dressing up in a hockey jersey; I have donned my Kaspar jersey #6 because It is 4-0 recently.

    Go Dubi, go Rangers!

  41. Two things:

    1. Hank’s not been playing great, but this turning against him is crazy. He needs better focus, competition from within the org, and for Renney not to accept Hank’s own evaluation that he can play 70+ games.

    2. In defense of Jagr, having watched a lot of the other superstars of the game on my tv package, I can say that JJ is the only player who is forced to play night in and night out with opposing players draped on him so aggressively. If anyone rode Crosby or Iginla or even Ovechkin the way they ride JJ, the league would put a stop to it immediately. It’s as if Jag has been grandfathered in to the “clutch and grab” system the lockout was supposed to have stopped. Sure, maybe Ovechkin would hurt anyone who tried, but still.

    Go Rangers!

    Oh, crap, did the Center Ice have to air the Washington feed? These guys’ voices are painful.

  42. Beer Me is gIT’S TIME TO FIND OUT WHAT JAGR’S WORTH BLUE CHIP: It’s time for the Rangers to consider trading Jaromir Jagr, but only for a lot.

    February 10, 2008 — PHILADELPHIA – Scott GomezScott Gomez is 28, he’s in the first season of a sev en-year, $51.5 million contract, and he’s been the RangersNew York Rangers ‘ best player in 2007-08.

    Jaromir JagrJaromir Jagr will be 36 on Friday, he’s in what appears to be the final season of his contract, and he’s on pace for his least productive season since he was a rookie in 1990-91.

    When the Rangers look to next year, Glen Sather’s obligation will be to find a first-line right wing who is compatible with Gomez, rather than to find a first-line center who is compatible with Jagr.

    Which is why the Rangers GM is obligated now to find out what he can get in return for Jagr as the Feb. 26 trade deadline approaches.

    It is difficult now to conceive of the scenario under which Jagr will return to the Rangers next season. Before his latest slump, Jagr had just begun to navigate a reasonable path to 84 points and the initial option trigger on his contract. Now, though, that road seems a dead end. Held pointless in yesterday’s 2-0 victory over the Flyers, Jagr needs 37 points in the final 24 games to hit the first trigger, with the second a playoff round victory for his team.

    Sadly, there is little in his body of work this season in which he had recorded 47 points in his first 57 games that suggests he is capable of mounting such a scoring surge. As such, without triggering an automatic one-year extension of his cap-friendly deal, Jagr will become an unrestricted free agent this summer.

    In that case, the Rangers owe it to themselves to see what bounty Jagr might bring back on the rental market. Surely he is a more proven and valuable commodity than Marian Hossa. Surely he is as equally attractive as Mats Sundin.

    In the right spot, on a team where he would be surrounded by more complementary talent and wouldn’t necessarily have to carry the offense – Detroit, anyone? – Jagr could very well be the difference between winning a round or two and winning the Stanley Cup.

    This is not a call for Sather to give Jagr the bum’s rush out of New York, my goodness it is not that. Jagr has been an immense Ranger throughout his Broadway tour; Sather’s best acquisition and the best big-name acquisition since Mark Messier. Jagr is the individual most singularly responsible for the franchise’s return to hockey credibility following the lockout. He has earned credit in New York. No one should ever forget that.

    Jagr put the Rangers on his back and carried the franchise out of the Dark Ages into this Renaissance Era. When the world believed the Blueshirts would finish at the bottom of the league in 2005-06, Jagr guaranteed a playoff berth on the first day of training camp and then delivered on that uncharacteristic pledge with a Hart Trophy-worthy campaign in which he established franchise records for goals (54) and points (123) in a season.

    The Rangers have changed since then. The Euro is no longer the currency in the room. Jagr has not changed. He can’t or he won’t after 17 years in the league in which he has carved a Top 25 all-time career. He wants and/or needs to play a slow-down puck-possession game with linemates who share his vision. Gomez needs to play a hurry-up, give-and-go game with linemates who share his speed.

    Jagr is a very bright, very aware individual, sensitive to his environment. He understands the situation as well as anyone. The fact is, whether he would ever publicly acknowledge this or not, Jagr likely would be better served himself by continuing his career elsewhere. Indeed, he probably would be best served by playing in the West, against defensemen who aren’t so familiar with his game.

    As a Ranger, Jagr is matched against the same defensemen game after game after game. There’s nothing he has that the Zdeno Charas, Hal Gills, Derian Hatchers and Mike Komisareks of the conference haven’t seen dozens of times. He’s begun to get pounded routinely again; punished as he holds on to the puck longer and longer, desperately trying to create something for himself, desperately trying to be the force he was two years ago, the force he was in Pittsburgh.

    Again. This is not a cry for the Rangers to dump Jagr. There is no reason whatsoever to send him away on the cheap. He does have the ability to get hot. He does present a huge challenge for a potential playoff opponent.

    This is, however, a reminder that that the Rangers have an obligation to investigate what they would be able to bring back for No. 68 on the rental market. Detroit should be interested. Phoenix and Wayne Gretzky should be interested. Dallas and Brett Hull should be interested. If even two teams are interested – and perhaps there would be five – Sather could raise the ante.

    This season has never been about only this season for the Rangers. This trade deadline can’t only be about this season either.

    The future is about Gomez. The future may arrive as soon as Feb. 26.

    oing to have to get drunk to deal with this “typical ***** Ranger fan”. Put down the gasoline pump and read:

  43. Who do we want to lose today, PIT or PHI? I think PHI because we have more games left with PIT and PHI is closer to us in the standings. I’ll be keeping one eye on that game since it’s on TV where I am.

    Marc Staal leads all Rangers D with a +4 according to MSG’s stat. Good for him!

    From that Hockey’s Future article that was linked here, it’s amazing that *eight goaltenders* have played for Charlotte this season. Holt is now on loan to an Idaho team. That’s such a funny thing in the minors – on loan. What if you play your real team? Or are you not allowed to?

  44. Avery needs to keep his mouth closed to the refs… they will give him unsportsmanlike if he breathes to loud.. jaw at the players but not the refs…

  45. Hockeyman Rangers #2 on

    Nice SAVE Vali, I have to say Vali has really stepped up and is playing incrediably

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