Where do they go from here?

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Whether there are any lingering effects from Tuesday’s “theatrics between Sean Avery and Marek Malik”:http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080207/SPORTS01/802070399/-1/SPORTS, I suppose we’ll know today.

I got the sense Tom Renney was going to address the issue between the two, and I would imagine the two might have to talk on their own as well.

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Meanwhile, it seems a lot of you see this as evidence that Sean Avery’s well-documented dark side is starting to emerge.

I don’t blame you. Avery had a bad game on Tuesday, he’s the player most likely to cause a stir in his own dressing room, and frankly, given the assorted hand injuries he’s been dealing with all year, he can’t handle the puck all that well these days.

But the other side to consider is this is just what you get with Avery. He is going to keep everyone on edge, even within his own room, and can be somewhat of a distraction. If he wasn’t around, there is a good chance this team operates at a nice, quiet hum.

But guess what? I’m not sure that’s a good thing.

While Avery’s actions can occasionally be selfish, it doesn’t seem like it’s n enough to be considered a real concern. And he’s still been a player who gives the Rangers a spark they otherwise might lack.

In other words, let’s reserve judgment for a little while. If this spirals into something more, then let’s talk. Otherwise, I just think it comes with the territory,

More from the skate later….

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47 Comments

  1. Bring back Lohan on

    Someone asked a great question the other day, if they fought during the game would they get a penalty?

  2. OldTymeHockey14 on

    “If he wasn’t around, there is a good chance this team operates at a nice, quiet hum.”

    Without Avery this team would operate more like a nice, quiet HO-HUM….

  3. Well put Sam!

    I tend to lean more towards the ‘it just comes with the territory’ notion. We all know Avery is a very emotional individual and for anyone to think that he changed when he came to the Rangers is a bit naive. Now with that being said, you can argue that with that emotion, the consequence of turmoil can arise. However, I tend to be the optimist and I truly believe that he has thoroughly enjoyed his time in New York and that he will use the emotion to not only catapult his game, but catapult the team into the right direction.

  4. “Someone asked a great question the other day, if they fought during the game would they get a penalty?”

    No, because that would never happen. It would be an embarrassment to the team and the players involved.

  5. No, because that would never happen. It would be an embarrassment to the team and the players involved.

    …..

    That’s pretty naive. Although I agree it woul dbe beyond bad, it was a hypothetical question, becuase anything can happen.

  6. His antics on and off the ice seem to be the same. Hey, he’s livin life. First he was with Cuthbert, then he gets to punch Malik in the face! Jealous anyone?

    When we made the deal for him, I liked it. But I was quick to say that he needs to be on a short leash. Shanny played/is playing a good role (and a tough one) to curve Sean’s fire towards gametime. “Comes with the territory”…you bet ya! That short leash I speak of has to be held by the GM, by the coaching staff, and by his teammates. The question I ask is, Is it worth it?

  7. Every contact sport has these incidents from time to time. Do you remember Vince Young slapping that DB in training camp? Do you think Beukeaboom and Olzcyck were bad apples when they dropped the gloves? It’s Avery, and it will be overblown. But everyone better remember one thing: Avery is the Rangers’ catalyst. He is their alter-ego. He is everything the reat of them are not: BALLSY!!! So, this should be expected, it should be forgiven, and it shouldn’t be any more newsworthy than the Beuke-Eddie O scrap in 1994.

  8. As always perfect Sam. Avery just talked the other day about how much Renney has done for him, we also know he loves is here. I don’t think he is going to jeopardize his spot on the team in anyway with his antics. I truly believe he is turning into a great emotional leader I think this was just a way of getting the team fired up. Everyone has there own way.
    I don’t remember where I read it yesterday but this was the first fight in a practice since Beuke and Eddie O took each other on during the 94 season. They were both big parts of that team Beuke on the ice Eddie O more as a black ace but he started all the Heave Ho stuff, so I guess what I’m getting at is this can bring a group closer together more that people think.

  9. Bring back Lohan on

    Thanks Salty, at least some are picking up on it. How come no one commented on the fact that the Chix Fingers in the luxury box gave me the runs? I mean that was probably the most important post of the day.

  10. Lohan-

    That’s ok. There are a lot of people who are all disgruntled about how the season has gone. And they like to jump on anything that resembles a positive post or any question whether it be sarcastic or not. I like to have a little fun with it myself. I personally don’t mind when people jump down my throat on here. Especially when it is over my being sarcastic or just making a comment of my own. I get a kick out of it :)

  11. Did anyone see that Matt Cullen missed a few more games with blurred vision? Can’t rush coming back from concussions man.

  12. Bring back Lohan on

    Nasty, why you gettin all in my grill man? HA! Maybe we should drop the gloves a la Aves and Harry????? That sounds more like a place to buy Pears…..

  13. Seamus O Riley on

    I have not been a big Avery fan since he got here, and that is well documented. But I have also acknowledged his impact on the ice and think he deserves a contract, but it is contigent upon this:

    What did Gomez (our future captain, I hope, to bring in Devils defensive responsibility and winning ways) think? Did he and others think (outside of any Czechs) that Malik needed this?
    OR

    was it divisive in the lockerroom OTHER than the Czech posse?

    If he is a trouble maker in the lockeroom, don’t sign him.

    If the lockerroom, for the most part, cheered this, sign him.

    It is just something very difficult for us, on the outside, to really know.

    Renney speak: “It is fine”
    Translation: “I have no control over my players. Sure a practice is optional and only 3 show up, so what?”

  14. Seamus I agree 100% with your points. I am definitely a fan of Avery. Partially because of his spark to the team, and partly because I, myself, can definitely be a major as*hole at times. That being said, I don’t think there is going to be a Czech contingency for that much longer with the team. I see Jarg probably being the only Czech here next year. I don’t think Malik will be back, Prucha is probably going to be dealt if we make a trade, and Straka will probably retire after this season. I don’t think building a team around Gomez, Drury, Hank, Avery, and Dubi is bad by any means.

  15. When I read this yesterday is reaked of a set up to me and it does even more now. The team was lifeless and showed no fight on Tuesday and the one person Tom Renney could tell to go start a fight in practice to get the teams blood flowing and get away with it would be Sean Avery.

    It would be a plus plus for Renney. It would further validate everything good Avery has been saying about how Renney understands the type of player and person he is and doesn’t try to change him and Avery can look at is as being asked a favor from the coach to help the team almost. Its almost a leadership type of position for Avery to be in. And by having him fight Malik it gives Renney the opportunity to walk over and pat the guy on the back and shows the rest of the team that the guy who has had the worst run of luck (or play) this year is still standing there not backing down and continuing to fight so they all shoulud be.

    The fact Avery didn’t talk to reports after makes me further believe in my mind that it was a planned event.

    I think if Renney orchastrated the whole thing was brilliant move. We will see what kind of effect it has tonight.

  16. This is honestly not a big deal. It happens more than people would think. Maybe not to this proportion where they just drop the gloves and go at it, but it happens. Happened in Ottawa like 2 weeks ago when McGratton and Emery faught each other in practice. After the fight they laughed about it and said it was all good. They were probably frustrated with things so Avery took offense to what Malik was doing and they went at it. As long as they left it on the ice and can get along in the locker room, then its really nothing big.

  17. It is just something very difficult for us, on the outside, to really know.

    Renney speak: “It is fine”
    Translation: “I have no control over my players. Sure a practice is optional and only 3 show up, so what?”

    ————–

    I’ve never seen a quicker contradiction in my entire life. If you don’t know what’s going on in the lockerroom, how the hell do you know … nevermind.

  18. Seamus O Riley on

    you know, in terms of the split lockerroom (is it one “r” or two?)….

    Jagr and the pretty passers, no hit VERSUS Shanny and the backchecking hitters, shoot more, etc

    I think Prucha actually is more on the North American side in terms of how he likes to play.

    Having NOT come into camp with new muscle means he is a concussion waiting to happen. I love his heart, and think if he got more power play time, he would crash the net more, but I also think he is going to be trade bait.

    Next year is SOOO promising. Let’s say we get a butt kicking coach who LOVES to see kids PLAY through their mistakes.

    Next you have Gomez as the Captain. He has 10 years experience with the winning ways of the “boring” NJ Devils, defense first mentality. Imagine how Lundqvst could do with that?

    At one point, our defense was number 1 in the league. Then, Renney made changes and put Malik back in, which changed, dramatically, Rosival’s responsibilities.

    Also, 3/4 of the season almost done and we still DO NOT have any set lines. Guys have NEVER gotten used to playing with linemates. I thought that even Renney would have let lines settle in by the first QUARTER of the season.

    He may be a nice guy; a very nice guy and I HATE revolving door coaching, but he has to go.

    Drury is finally getting comfortable in NY and playing his style. It will be a great fit with Gomez for next year.

    I hope Renney stays off of Callahan;s back and just let him play.

    Staal has been really solid for a d=man so young.

    We have a promising post-Jagr future. We really do. We just need a strong coach who will let kids play thru mistakes.

    I love that Greg Moore is up. Give him a chance. He is a very responsible, defensive minded guy who, from what I know of him up here in Maine, is supposedly a GREAT locker-room influence. Very serious about hockey. Not a party guy. Works very hard, eats, thinks, breathes hockey.

    I have heard it said that Shanny is shot and his recovery is slower and slower as he continues, at his age, to party hard at night. Sad, if true.

    Love Straka, but he has to let go of Jamomir and shoot ze puck.

    Love Prucha’s heart, but he is so small…

    Love malik’s size, but he is way smaller than prucha.

  19. Seamus O Riley on

    Beerme wrote;

    Beer Me! February 7th, 2008 at 11:08 am
    It is just something very difficult for us, on the outside, to really know.
    Renney speak: “It is fine”
    Translation: “I have no control over my players. Sure a practice is optional and only 3 show up, so what?”
    ———————
    I’ve never seen a quicker contradiction in my entire life. If you don’t know what’s going on in the lockerroom, how the hell do you know … nevermind.

    Beerme, we do know those comments because that is a Renney quote.
    It is only my interpretation. I see Renney as a weak coach. I could point to many things that support that, but it has been said ad naseum.

    Where is the contradiction?

    What I said about NOT knowing in the lockerroom had nothing to do with Renney, but everything to do with how the team views Avery.

    I think you missed what I was trying to say.

  20. you’re all over the place today seamus and I’m not in a good mood, so here we go…

    “PLAY THROUGH MISTAKES”!??!?!

    Staal, girardi, toots, prucha, HANK, Dubinsky…They’re all young and all have regular ice time, and all play through there mistakes. I understand you want to throw the season away, for whatever reason(it doesn’t matter), but you’re just not right this time.

  21. your contradiction is that you don’t know what is going on in the lockerroom, but you know what’s going on when the coach says something. ??? So if he says something IN the lockerroom you don’t know, but if it’s outside you do?

  22. Bring back Lohan on

    They can kill each other for all I care. Just get me at least 1 pt tonight and I will feel pretty good. You’ve got to assume that Philly is HUNGRY as hell to get another crack at us. Washington SHOULD BE (key word) a win for us. So three pts in the next 3 is a must. 4 or 5 and we’ll all be pretty happy. 6 pts and I may not know what to do or think…

  23. Bring back Lohan,
    Washington should be a win for us?
    Obviously you haven’t been following the play of the capitols.
    There now in first place in there division and there playing very well.

  24. Bottom line is he isn’t going anywhere. So if you think we have no shot with him at the helm, then you may as well follow another team. That position is not changing anytime soon, so get over it.

    I’m tired of this debate. Typical F’n Ranger fan.

  25. IMO the rangers playoff hopes are going to go down to the last few weeks of the season and it probably will be for the 7th or 8th spot or they might not make it at all.

  26. Bring back Lohan on

    Beer Me, you are bitter today. AND I LIKE IT. Any way we can get you to lace them up today. We could use your fire. I know who I am NOT going to piss off today!

  27. Seamus O Riley on

    Beerme,

    you are right that I am all over the place; threw out a lot for any discussion. I am not so much as throwing away this season (still want the playoffs) but realize that we are a .500 hockey team Sometimes we are brilliant (Montreal) and other times, we are so bad that we appear like a last place team.

    I do feel that Renney jumped on Callahan and punished mistakes by cutting ice time much more than he did with others. Did it matter how badly Malik played during a game that went into OT? In that fast paced four on four hockey, there was Malik out there.

    I also feel that some of the younger players you have mentioned have had ice time cut after mistakes. I don’t agree with that philosophy. I don’t think that Renney, or whoever is in charge, is really great at developing youth….but that is for a different argument.

    I feel (I do not know, I only can guess) that Renney yields much to Jagr. I do suppose you might say that can be supported when Jagr sat out the shootout and took a load of ******* from the fans. But, hey, who is the coach? Jagr, or Renney.

    sorry about your mood. Friday is almost here. You having a bad day at work? Maybe tonight’s game will do us both a world of good….Montreal game and the Giants were fun to watch even though I am a Jets fan.

  28. Seamus O Riley on

    I have said repeatedly that Renney is not going anywhere. I base that upon Isaiah.

    Just my own deduction. That makes me a typical F***ing Ranger fan?

    You paint with a broad brush. Perhaps you’ve downed too many beers and lost too many braincells.

  29. Hey Sam, I don’t blame Avery at all. From the sounds of this fight, it seemed like he was trying to light a fire under Malik for the entire team. This is something that the coaching staff has been trying to do all year. So I don’t understand how this has anything to do with Avery’s past. He made an outstanding point with Malik, and I hope it sticks for the rest of the season. We need him to start playing better so we can: trade him or use him as needed.

  30. Bring back Lohan,
    OK, I’ll remember that when the rangers play the caps that there the caps anyway you slice it. I think your under estimating the caps here but I hope your right.

  31. Cuch you said what I said only better. People can hate Renney all they want this guy is going to get us a cup in the 3-4 years. He is definitely smart enough to orchestrate something like that.

  32. I just think there is so muck parity in the eastern conference that it is hard to predict who is better, worst, making the playoffs and not making the playoffs. It makes it more exciting to watch, I guess, I rather see the rangers kick a@@
    but I’ve already come to the conclusion that this team will win some, than lose some, they might make the playoffs, they might not make the playoffs.

  33. Beer Me, you know he isn’t going anywhere just as much as Seamus knows the translations of what Renney says.

    I’ll tell you what I see, I see a team that has absolutely zero thirst to win. They would *like* to win, but they’re not willing to do whatever it takes, and that’s pathetic.

    So it doesn’t matter what Renney does or says to the media. It doesn’t matter how you translate what his words, his team is not translating wins on the ice, thats the only translation anyone needs. *That* is the bottom line. And lets be real, this fight came out of pure frustration. There is a serious lack of control in the locker room. I don’t thik Avery is the problem, but I’m sure his personality in this situation isn’t helping.

    This team is so shot its not even funny. Some of you will try to say that The Leafs are the biggest joke in the league…but I’m sorry, they we’re not projected to be the contender that we were. Kinda sad to see this “big year” get pissed away, but thats NYR for ya. Zero thirst.

  34. “Perhaps you’ve downed too many beers and lost too many braincells.”
    I would not argue that in a million years!

    As far as the ‘typical’ thing…I say that b/c year after year after year, no matter who is behind the bench it’s “we need a new coach”, and when we changed, it buried us further and further. It’s not the answer. The answer here is patience.

    The Jagr/Renney thing…I HAVE said in the past that I think (on occaision) he has been too yeilding to the captain. I think its in part b/c he wants to keep his job, another part b/c he wants him to play through it (sitting jags down sometimes is what probably just what jags wants), and part b/c he wants to show other guys that you CAN play through bad times and get your game back.

    work, cold, broke, hearing in Feb while in a playoff position say we won’t make it…add all that up and you get one pissed off BeerMe!

    Glad you’re enjoying it Lohan

    Seamus, it could have been anybody, but I chose you. Cheers buddy.

  35. “Hockeypuckz
    February 7th, 2008 at 11:36 am
    Cuch you said what I said only better. People can hate Renney all they want this guy is going to get us a cup in the 3-4 years. He is definitely smart enough to orchestrate something like that.”

    Congrats hockeypuckz! you’re my new best friend! LOL

    Salty – you’re one-way thinking is as bad as Dawes’ one-way play. I like your passion, but that’s about it.

  36. Yeah, but sometimes going in with lofty expectations can work in reverse. The year we were predicted to finish last we played a hell of a year. I don’t think where we were predicted to finish means shit. I am sorry, but that is just my opinion. I will say this as well. I wouldn’t care if this team made the playoffs by one point on the last day of the season and then went on to win the cup. Some people feel otherwise, but anything can happen in the playoffs.

  37. All –

    Please note: Tomorrow, or possible later today/tonight I will calm down. Until then…well, you get it.

  38. hey, i may not be as old a ranger fan as some of you guys but this is not a hungry team and this is not a coach that makes you hungry. 94 was everything to me especially since i was a kid . i have thought alot about renneys coaching style versus what we saw in mike k in 94. i think he would have those guys skating suicides until their legs fall off and when jagr refused the shootout, iron mike would have taken his c off his jersey righton the spot and then told the press about it.

    beerme, what are you like the tool of the nasty here?

  39. It’s always bothered me that Avery is seen as the guy this team needs to win. Don’t get me wrong, for the most part I like what he brings. However it still erks me that a loose canon was needed to turn last season around. I hope they can work things out.
    Wasn’t it just the other day they were talking about how Avery has changed due to the coaching staff the “brings out the best in him” and “channels his energy”. He was saying how things were different with the Rangers, compared to the previous teams he has been on?

  40. haha beer me, there’s no need to calm down it’s no way to go through life, live on the edge.

    the thing is….SEAN AVERY IS LIVING THE LIFE.

    he’s a solid hockey player on a huge market team playing in the NHL causing a stir, getting stories written about him left and right, publicly known as the most annoying player to play against, making millions. all that would make anyone happy…

    but not only tha, he went out w/ the girl next door (elisha cuthbert), lindsay lohan, and he just got the opportunity to fight w/ and punch marek malik in the nose.

    if i’m not jealous of this guy, i don’t know who im jealous of. I heart sean avery.

    now, with regards to hockey….another great post by sam. no matter what the problems are with avery, the fact that he brings life and energy to this team is the important thing. without him, this team would be so lulled, so boring, that we’d all hate it.

    so yes, wait to cry about the cancer (ironic eh) in the clubhouse he is etc b/c right now he’s exactly what we need…

  41. I love all the people who talk about Prucha’s durability and how he’s a walking concussion, etc. None of youhave any idea what you’re talking about. The list of players who’ve missed more time than Prucha due to injury over three years is long: Rucinsky, Rucchin, Shanahan, Straka, Avery, Malik, Callahan, Betts, Ortmeyer…

    For 3 years I’ve been hearing the same story, yet the only time he got hurt was on a knee to knee hit. If he was going to get concussed, it would would have happened by now. The only player who’s the recipient of more dirty hits than Prucha is Jagr.

    A not on Renney: He may have been the right coach for 05-06, and maybe even 06-07. But the roster has turned over a great deal and he may not be the right coach for this group.

    Whoever thought the Malik/Avery incident was planned is a complete conspiracy theorist. If it was, it’s an even bigger indictment of Renney that he needs Avery to do the dirty work for him, and I just don’t buy that.

  42. Anything can happen in the playoffs when you have a team with a willing heart who has battled all season to claw a playoff berth *despite lack of talent*. We are the complete opposite, if you can honetsly say that you think this team lacks talent needed, yet plays with enough heart, speak now or forever hold your peace (and piece). There’s not a soul on this blog who can muster up the nerve to try making that argument.

    And let us not act like “The Playoffs” is this magical fantasy world where teams that have slacked off all season miraculously come to life and make runs. The playoffs is where good teams become great teams and eat, jokes who slide into the show, alive. Argue back against me, but you know its true.

  43. prucha, orts wasn’t hurt but out because of a serious health problem from an off the ice incident.

    Seamus, our defense started sucking when renney put Malik in? I believe it was the other way. Malik played a lot at the start of the year when our defense was great until he ran into some nagging injuries. Then after that the defense sucked. Plus its not just the d-mens fault. Renneys system involves a team defense where every player is involved. When they stopped backchecking hard, the goals started to pile up against henke.

  44. “While Avery’s actions can occasionally be selfish, ”

    ————–

    give me a friggin break, Sam.

    it is MALIK who walked out on his team when he was told he was scratched that night.

    it is MALIK who refused to shake the hand of his coach after a win because he was still pouting.

    and it is MALIK who refuses to fight or play physical for his teammates, while Avery does it all the time.

    there is only one selfish player in this dustup, and it is MALIK, the selfish pouting team-walk-out-on jackass.

    I resent very much your writing about Avery as selfish when it is MALIK who is the selfish a-hole in this situation.

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