Mental health day?


With the opening of the doors to the dressing room post-game last night came news that Tom Renney was giving his team a previously unscheduled off day today, suggesting any of the following:

A) The team is physically banged up and needs a day of rest.

B) The team is mentally and emotionally banged up and needs a break from the rink.

C) The coaching staff and upper management needs a day to construct a new plan before things get even worse.

D) All of the above.

I don’t know the answer, although it’d be worth asking  tomorrow. It’s true there are only so many line rushes and defensive zone coverage drills a team can put itself through in practice. At some point it’s just a matter of execution in a game, and obviously right now, that part is lacking.

If you look at the Lightning’s first two goals last night — even with Fedor Tyutin’s mindless deflection past Henrik Lundqvist — you saw an opponent rotating the puck in the offensive zone enough to eventually find the Rangers overcommited to one side of the ice.

As Renney said,  players are almost trying too hard to make the right defensive play that they’re being caught out of position. I believe this is true. I also believe the team is perhaps so focused on its defensive responsibilities that the necessary instinctive parts of their games have been compromised in the process.

All of this points to a team that right now lacking a certain intangible quality — confidence, composure. Whatever the word is, it’s not far off. But it is enough out of the Rangers grasp right now that it’s costing them crucial ground in the standings, and last night, the frustration was palpable.

Some other notes:

<li>A big topic of conversation last night was Renney’s use of his HBO line to match the Lightning unit of Vincent Lecavalier, Vinny Prospal, and Martin St. Louis.

Bear in mind that’s the same tactic the coach has employed successfully against Tampa Bay dating back to last season. The difference is the Rangers took early leads or were at least tied in those games, and were then content to shut down that unit at any cost. But when the Rangers fell behind early last night, the HBO’s heavy ice time came at the expense of the players who could get them back in the game, namely Jaromir Jagr, Scott Gomez, and Chris Drury. It wasn’t an issue by the third period. And of course, that’s when the Rangers made their surge.

<li>Brendan Shanahan was able to play last night because team doctors and trainers deemed he couldn’t do any more damage to his knee. It was a welcome addition for the Rangers during their string of third period power plays. But at even strength, Shanahan didn’t have much to give, and he didn’t spend any time killing penalties.

More later…

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  1. Shanny is not 30 anymore.. he needs the rest, and we could’ve used some youth last night… plus I really want to see Parenteau in action. As for Renney, when is enough..well enough? How many times will HBO be out with 5 minutes left in the third period when we’re behind? This is ludicrous!

    I’m not saying fire the guy, but something needs to be done to shake up the players and coaching staff.

  2. I’m starting to think the team is over coached. To the point that they are mentally worn.
    Just let them go out and skate.
    There is something definitely bothering Hank cause he is letting in some goals that are just not typical of the King.

  3. Sam – There HBO line was played too much but they are constantly our 2nd best line and play the best defesne..We need to get more offense out there, but if HBO wasn’t marking Lecav’s line, they probably score more..Renney has to fond the balance somehow..

  4. Doodie Machetto on

    Maybe we’re just seeing he is a streaky goaltender. Every season he has had long stretches of average to subpar play, as well as long stretches of lights out play.

    Season 1: lights out until the end of the season and playoffs where he lost it. He blamed it on migraines.

    Season 2: started out mediocre, but became lights out in January for the rest of the year.

    Season 3: Started lights out, but has been average at best for the past month.

    Seems like he is streaky.

    Seeing how well the big guns did in keeping TB from scoring, maybe it shows that HBO is useless, as the top line can hold the puck in the zone against other top lines (and since they are worse defensively, we’ll have a better chance of scoring). Renney used to play Straka-Nylander-Jagr against other top lines, why not try the new version with Gomez this year? HBO sucks, plain and simple.

  5. Like many readers here, I’ve been a big Renney supporter, but now it’s starting to get a bit tough to maintain that support. There are just too many questionable moves, of course starting with the overuse of the fourth line. But it goes beyond that: playing Shanny on the PK, sitting Lundqvist in Vancouver, the PP units and the execution of the PP. It is inexcusable that on a minute and a half 5-on-3, the Rangers didn’t pass it once across the crease. Before the third period, I thought it was the worst game that I watched all season–no emotion whatsoever. Perhaps the team has stopped responding to him. Obviously when a team goes in a slump, blame is directed towards the coach, but in this case, there have been many questionable moves.

  6. It’s great that Shanny played. Nothing like watching him wear his invisibility cloak until the 3rd, then shed it to miss the net 4 times in a row on our failed 5 on 3. Shanny is 37. Would giving him a night off every once in a while be so terrible?

    Renney seems lost. It’s like he doesn’t have any idea what to do when Jagr and Lundy aren’t carrying the team.

  7. i agree we need some kind of shakeup but the question is. IS blaming renney and getting rid of him going to change the team from missing the net on 6 out of seven shots during a 5 on 3 no matter who the coach is no matter how many times the HBO line is out there if our power play unit cant even hit the net they will never make it to the playoffs.

  8. thats actually an awful thing to say and I really don’t mean that at all. Sam if you could delete my last post, I would appreciate it.

    just so frustrating. his head needs to roll along with a few others.

  9. another thing i things its hurting Malik more by sitting him every other game either play him and listen to the boos or get rid of his a%%

  10. REPOST:

    ROB L. You are even because you shut down the top scoring line of the other team which is what our 4th line does and does very very well. They are not paid to score goals. Why is it so hard for you all to realize?

    The 3 other lines need to score that is their job and they all stink at that right now and the fact that they do not play D or back check is why they are minus.

    Do you all know the meaning of a checking line?? Who gives a s**t if they play 20 minutes. If the other team’s top line does not score, success. Ours should score.

  11. REPOST:

    I agree 100% with Richard.

    All you clowns on this blog saying that the 4th line sucks and Renney shouldn’t play them, are ignorant. Do you guys know the role of a checking line? It is to stop the other team’s #1 line. Lecavalier, Crosby, etc etc. Why you ignoramuses can’t see that is beyond me!

    If HBO can go 15 mins or 18 mins or whatever and keep Lecav, St Louis, and Prospal off the scoresheet (EN goal doesn’t count) then that means Jags and crew have 45 or 42 mins to do their thing. THEY ARE NOT DOING IT! -3 by Drury, Jags, and Gomer is just unacceptable!

    Now I agree that the 4th line should not be playing when we are down by a goal with 5 to play. But to fault Renney or the 4th line, when it is clearly the 5 on 5 play of lines 1-3 that is really sucking butt, is just misdirected frustration.

    The best line on the ice last night in 5 on 5 was the 4th line. Anyone who disagrees wasn’t watching the game that I watched or they just don’t know anything about hockey.

    This team has no heart. They don’t try until they are down by 2 goals or more.

    We need an iron fisted coach to handle the heartless punks we have on the team.

  12. Revisionist history by Glen Sather!!

    From the Detroit News:

    Glen Sather, the architect of the Oilers dynasty, hasn’t had as much success as Rangers general manager, although the Rangers have rebounded post-lockout. (They were high-spending playoff-non qualifiers before the season without hockey.)

    Sather told the Vancouver Provinence that when he signed on with the Rangers, he knew it would be a difficult task rebuilding them.

    “The farm team had won the American League with an average age of 31. There were no prospects. I knew that when I was offered the job, it was not going to be a short process,” Sather said.

    A lot of his free-agent signings didn’t work, but Sather felt he had to try something to get the Rangers competitive.

    “There’s things we did that I wouldn’t do again,” Sather said. “But there were a lot of players already under long-term contracts for a lot of money — and there’s really no way to fill holes without draft picks and youth. We had none of that.”

    The Rangers are more stable these days. When Sather signed forwards Chris Drury and Scott Gomez last summer, and Brendan Shanahan the year before, it was more to augment what the Rangers already have.

    But Sather knows there’s still plenty of work to do. The Rangers, with 45 points, are in seventh place in the tightly-bunched (after Ottawa) Eastern Conference standings.

    “I have plenty left to prove,” Sather said. “It’s not like putting up a building on Madison Avenue and saying, ‘OK, it’s finished.’ Hockey is never finished.”

    The western Canada native misses his roots.

    “I’m not a New York guy,” Sather said. “Canada, the West, Banff — those will always be home. I just spent a week in Banff shoveling snow, taking the grandkids on a sleigh ride, skated on the river a couple of days, saw a couple of bull elks fighting each other. It was great.

    “I like New York, though. It’s been good. But it’s the same challenges as everywhere else. You gotta be bad for a while to be successful today unless you’re really lucky.”

  13. My biggest complaints with last night’s game:
    • How could Orr and Hollweg play over 13 minutes in a game we were losing since the first half of the first period? As they said on MSG, about half of their minutes were in that period, but one we were losing, they probably should have been cut down a bit, although I guess they only had 3 1/2 minutes per period in the other two.
    • Tyutin made such a weak play on that first goal, just letting the puck go off his stick without actually making a play to block it.

    Now we see what happens when the Rangers try to play too offensively, giving up bad defensive plays that lead to goals. I wish they could do both, but it’s probably too much for their mental capacity.

  14. It is not how much he plays the 4th line. It is WHO IS ON THE 4TH LINE that is a problem. I don’t believe in compromise in sports. The 4th line needs better players who can shut down and also score a bit. No compromise. It is not a 4th line . It is a 6th line. That is the argument.

  15. I think Sam is closest to the problem: “the team is perhaps so focused on its defensive responsibilities that the necessary instinctive parts of their games have been compromised in the process.”

    This team has been coached into playing not to lose and then, too often, the other team stabilizes, the other team’s goalie gains confidence, and by the time our team realizes it needs to be aggressive and play exciting, going-to-the-net hockey, it’s too late. We need to come out crazy and show teams we have that “talent,” because I suspect we do. They’re just mis-used and afraid.

    Let our guys play to win. This defensive thing is not working for these players. You can’t change them — but a good coach and staff should be able to change their “system.” ADJUST!!!!

    Oh, and lose Hollweg. And, no, I don’t expect the checking line to score — he just stinks. And whoever made a point about the Rangers not passing across the crease, right on.

  16. I have never in my life of watching the Rangers have seen a fourth line that scores as little as the one the Rangers have right now but yet plays more than the 3rd line on a consistent basis. It boggles the mind.

    Hollweg has to go and Orr should only be playing against teams that pose a physical threat to the Rangers. We need 4th line players who have the ability to score. Heck when Sandy McCarthy was on the Rangers he scored more than these bums do. At least he was scoring 10 goals on the 4th line. We’ll be lucky if any of these guys reach 5.

  17. a 4th line should be thrown into the rotation and rolled, i don’t care how good they are at ANYTHING…if you were introducing a new fan to the first period rangers last night, he would have been convinced that HBO was our first line.

    but what was painfully obvious was that renney used the moore-shanny-dawes line as his 4th line, and HBO as his checking line.

    the main problem i had with renney’s first period gameplan was his matchup strategy – you’re playing a team that absolutely SUCKS on defense, and our first line had two great shifts of cycle and pressure. shouldn’t that give our head coach a clue that it’s probably right to put the 1st line out there when they’re rested? i know we’re supposed to be playing a defensive style these days, and that renney was probably trying to make the point that these guys are working harder than anyone on the team, but come on. the drury/gomez/jagr line looked pretty decent despite a few chemistry blunders. i’d like to see it again on thursday, and more of it.

  18. Newman and Richard. there is no need for a repost. I read and fully understood your comments the first time. The bottom line is the 4th line is overused.

  19. Sam, any more on Avery’s broken hand? What’s with the “I’m done” comment and subsequent spin job?

  20. Anyone else never been this frustrated with any team before? This is a new feeling. Years and years of awfulness, yet this somehow hurts more than it ever has before.

  21. Richard,

    You are the voice of reason in a sea of screaming chicken littles.

    Great Post!

    The fourth line did a great job of checking the Bolts No 1 line. Hollweg even got Vinnie in the box with him and that’s a great trade off imho.

    Come on. Avery out, Straka out,Shanny playing hurt, Callahan down, 2 Pack players in. Renney may mix up his top lines too much this season but he had no choice but to churn them last night.

    Teams still over .500. Everyone should just chill and support the team and the coaching staff.

    As constructed, this team wasn’t going to win the Cup anyway. Be thankful they have made the playoffs since the lockout and are headed in the right direction organizationally.

  22. I would imagine watching the Mets tumble last season had to be pretty awful..but not for in as long as I can remember have I been this frustrated with the team. Where is the hunger and desperation?

    However, I think Shanny playing last night was another sign of the leader he is in the locker room. But I’m getting beyond tired of all the bs excuses..and according to today’s articles so is the team–the problem- actions speak a whole lot louder than words.

  23. Forced into hiding.... on

    Why would Renney use Drury out of postion last night?

    At what point does Prucha stop getting a free pass from the fans?

    If Tyutins last name was Malik he would be booed for his play last night…Is there any other defensive pair that is more overmatched then Girardi and Tyutin? They have looked terrible the past month or so..

    Isn’t this the same fanbase that said Sather would never go to a defensive first system? You guys can’t have it both ways….

  24. I’m so sick of people complaining about the 4th line and Renney. This is a city that wants to see what Renney calls Junkyard Dog hockey. The 4th line give it game in and game out, they bang on the boards get the puck to the middle like everyone wants but its not good enough because they don”t score. Don’t you people see Renney is sending a message, he’s saying if you’re not going to do it these guys are willing and they are going to play, and not just create chances but play hardnosed defese, they are all willing to pay the price to win. Jagr is playing off to the side every game and on the few shifts recently when he rushes to the middle it’s amazing how good he can still be, he’s needs to man up and learn to take a beating and deliver us the damn cup. he’s the captain it’s time to lead by example because we know damn well Shanny is the vocal leader.

    We need to make a trade I would love to see them get another player with Avery’s intangibles to play him with when he comes back. Not sure who is out there that plays with the amount of skill and nastiness he does. Drury and Gomez have show glimpses of that themselves but I believe they follow the whole “as Jagr goes we go” theory. Which if thats true then it goes back to what I said the captain needs to man up. Maybe we could have him spend a day with Messier. Maybe we could collect money and pay for him to go to the Messier Leadership Camp, it’s on $11,111.11.


  25. The first line was dominant last night and looked to click right from the moment they stepped on the ice. With people out I have no problem with that first line. And I liked Staal joining the rush.

  26. Gomez has been our best player for the last 2 months and he is leading the team in points. So he has done a hell of a lot more than show a glimpse of himself.

  27. Yeah, Toots, especially, has looked mediocre.

    And everyone that says “stop whining” and “it’ll be okay,” I don’t understand. It’s not okay. They lose — a lot; and a lot of games they shouldn’t lose. And, more importantly, who watches a team not caring if they win or not? I know it’s the regular season, but good, fun-to-watch teams win during the regular season — even in hockey. Playing well in the regular season shouldn’t be gravy, it should be how you become a legit playoff team. And being a passionate, I-wanna-see-wins fan during the regular season shouldn’t be scoffed at, it should explain why you’re so excited during the playoffs. I mean, I’ve heard of fair weather fans, but “spring-time fans” are even lamer.

  28. The season is half over. There are many games left to play. Don’t praise this team after one or two wins and then give up on them after losses. FAIRWEATHER FANS! So many of you on here are. It honestly makes me laugh. I don’t get too excited or too upset when they win or lose. Am I any less a fan? No I am not. We are still hanging on to a playoff spot. It is dumb to say right now that this team will not make the playoffs. You can be upset with the coaches, with the players, with whoever you want, but don’t change from happy to pissed off like it is a light switch. Some of you in here make me really laugh out loud. And not because I think you are funny.

  29. Chris F. –Throw em if you got em. as long as you don’t throw them at the 4th line because they should be starting the all star game in some peoples opinion.

  30. I am not scoffing. All I am saying is, don’t praise one night and then hate the next day. This team is mediocre at best right now. We all know it. They have had flashes of great play, but they are not a great team. They can be a better team during this regular season, but they will not be a GREAT team, like a Detroit. They can however make it to the playoffs and then it is anyones guess as to what happens.

  31. I’m overly obssesed with this team and hockey in general. Seeing them lose these games and all the other crap and watching other teams at the same time makes me realize we don’t need to hit the panic button because were not that bad off.
    Yes something needs to be done and yes nasty1 you’re right Gomez has show more than a glimpse of himself but I think I meant more that I see glimpses of him playing with an edge he’s not afraid to get banged around and hit back, I’d like to see the whole team do that. I’m well aware of what he has done statistically. I also fully agree with you people flip like a light switch and panic, it’s cliche but it’s a marathon not a sprint. Renney has a plan he’s going to coach them out of this, like i said I truly believe he is sending a message to the whole group by playing that 4th line so much.

  32. I think Sather has done a good job building for the future. But I just don’t like the guy, and the smug look he always has on his face. I was to punch him in his fossil face and slam the cigar right down his throat. I am not sure where this is even relevant right now, but just thought I would throw it out there.

  33. Correction:

    I meant I want to punch him in his fossil face and slam the cigar right down his throat.

  34. Staal Wart January 9th, 2008 at 10:18 am
    I’m starting to think the team is over coached. To the point that they are mentally worn.
    Just let them go out and skate. >>

    Wasn’t this something that Mark Messier intimated about Renney awhile back??

    On the ESPN board, guys were posting BEFORE the game that they had “better not” see minutes given to Hollweg…

    oh well.

  35. I am overly obsessed too. But I have to keep a realistic look here. Look at the amount of points we have. Look around the league. Nobody is sooooooooooo far ahead of us, although the Devils are really putting their foot on the pedal. Ottawa and Detroit are the only teams I consider unreachable point wise. Everyone else is catchable. And I still think we could win the division. The games I consider most important for the rest of the season are the ones in which we play division rivals. Plain and simple. Am I saying other games are not important? No. But I think you all know what I mean.

  36. The season is far from over but right now this team looks as bored and as uninterested as it did last year at this time. Why wait until March to play like they care? This is a winnable division and letting the Devils, Pittsburgh or Philly take control at this point would be a mistake. The higher the playoff seed the better it will be for the Rangers. There won’t be any soft Atlanta team waiting in the first round for the Rangers if this continues. If they end up in the 8th slot they’ll be facing Ottawa in the first round and facing a first round exit again.

  37. Of our remaining games with have 18 against division rivals. That is a lot of big games folks.

  38. So instead of 36 points at stake it is really like 72. When you consider gaining points and taking away from other teams.

  39. To get back to Lundqvist’s problems –
    When he hasn’t been on top of his game in the past there were always legitimate reasons. Having migrains and trying to play goalie has to be nearly impossible. How do you focus?

    Last season he had similar problems with vision and supposedly a problem where he was grinding his teeth in his sleep. Yeah its not serious but it can have a effect on your game.

    This season, he played great for the first couple months until this past month.. And it was again mentioned that his dad is recovering from brain surgery. Although Lundqvist says this isnt an excuse, come on. How can you focus when your family is going through something as serious as that?

    He is a great goalie as we have seen, and although it is really pissing me off seeing him play like this, there are reasons. Yea, he has been streaky, but at least it isn’t happening for no reason at all. I am still confident that he is the goalie of the future, and as he has already proved, he will carry this team when it needs to be done.

  40. Seamus – what exactly did Vancouver accomplish when we was gone?

    Nasty & Hockeypuckz – you’re posts brought me back to life here. Glad to see there are understanding fans. A lot of us live and die with the team. Others know that there’s another game to be played tomorrow, and more after that. Hey, if March 1 rolls around and we’re teetering around .500, there is reason to be worried. But not with a conference this close.

    And I don’t remember who it was but someone mentioned using the 4th line to demonstrate the ype of play Renney wants from the rest of the team. EXCELLENT point.

  41. seamus – that’s when “he” was gone. Renney that is. Know what? don’t answer, we all know.

  42. So I was at the game last night. Terrible. Absolutely terrible. They might as well try to reacquire Pavel Brendl. What’s the point of getting all of these “stars” when they are on the BENCH while the FOURTH LINE is on the ice. God knows I love the gents on the 4th line but Renney plays them like they are the go-to guys that they signed in the offseason!

    My assessment… It’s time for Renney to go. I NEVER get on the coaches but this time it’s just too obvious. This guy is so f’n headstrong is his “SYSTEM” that it is taking away from the talent of this team. His system may work elsewhere. Who knows? But obviously with THIS crop of players it just isn’t working. Time to try something different. I don’t think the frustration that we’re seeing on Jagr’s face is only from losing. I think it’s from playing in a defensive system that is cramping his and everyone else’s style.

    TIME FOR A CHANGE! Also, get someone who actually stands up for his players. I’m tired of bad calls going un-argued. Do your job! UGH! FRUSTRATED!


  43. The truth about Henrik would appear to be that there are “Two Henriks”, one who’s pedestrian at best and one who’s lights out. Both have consistently showed up over the last 2 1/2 years.

    As for the Rangers, other than their 9-1 stretch they’re 11-17-5 this year, and that 9-1 stretch was when the right Henrik showed up. Sounds to me like a bad team that played well for a few weeks and is still “in it” because nobody else has taken off – until now. And I’m sorry but the Devils no longer have the edge on us talent-wise – there’s a whole different reason they’re in first.

  44. Dr. Ogrodnick on

    Not that I put a lot of stock in +/-, but our 4th line has the worst combined +/- of any line combination Renney has used all year. Certainly not indicative of a “shut down” line. Look, I realize we have to roll 4 lines, we have key players in their mid to late 30’s. Can’t ask these guys to skate every 3rd shift. But when we are losing the game from the early 1st period on on a night after 2 days off when we don’t play the next day, you have to curtail their ice time.

    Renney coached right into Tortarella’s hands. He let Torts dictate the matchups while keeping our best line off the ice, despite being at home.

    It’s great that Shanny has enough heart to play, but he was invisible the whole game, except of course when he was missing the net 4 times in a row on the 5 on 3. He’s 37. Would giving him a night off now and again be so terrible? A coach who had a sack would do it.

  45. Doodie Machetto on

    “It is not how much he plays the 4th line. It is WHO IS ON THE 4TH LINE that is a problem. I don’t believe in compromise in sports. The 4th line needs better players who can shut down and also score a bit. No compromise. It is not a 4th line . It is a 6th line. That is the argument.”

    Bingo. Dump Hollweg, use Orr sparingly. Get better players on the wings, Byers for sure as one.

    “When he hasn’t been on top of his game in the past there were always legitimate reasons.”

    Maybe it’s just BS excuses. How do you test to see if someone has migraines? You just ask and he says so. He just seems to lose his focus, a lot.

  46. Dr. Ogrodnick on

    As far as Lundqvist goes, his father just had brain surgery, so its entirely possible his focus isn’t all there. As poor as he’s been the last month,I can’t help but wonder if he’d be a little fresher if he had gotten any goal support at all this season, and didn’t have to steal most of his wins.

  47. Doodie Machetto on

    “Not that I put a lot of stock in +/-, but our 4th line has the worst combined +/- of any line combination Renney has used all year. Certainly not indicative of a “shut down” line. ”

    That’s a lame argument. The other lines have a few goals between them. The total goals on that line this season is 3. So even if they shut down well, it’s gonna be hard for them to do well in plus/minus.

    They suck, but looking at plus/minus to show they are bad at shutting down other lines is a crappy argument. Instead, you can look at plus/minus and say yeah, they shut down the other lines, but they are still a big minus because they can’t put the puck in the net. That’s a good argument as to why that line sucks.

  48. Well, I believe it has reached that certain point where heads do indeed need to roll.

    Now, I am not an expert, nor do I claim to know the end all, be all solution to the problems the Rangers face right now. None of us do because that is not our job. But what I do know as a fan, is that a serious shake up needs to occur. I don’t say this because this is what everyone wholeheartedly believes should be done or because they are currently playing poorly. No. This is something that is on a much, MUCH higher scale than the aforementioned.

    Concern Number One:
    I express extreme concern on the organization as a whole. From the General Manager down. My concern is the reincarnation of the Rangers of old. The “You come to New York, get the big bucks, and not feel the need to perform night in and night out” Rangers of old. Now it hasn’t gotten to that point, but can you honestly say that Glen Sather isn’t in the process of rebirthing a similiar idea once again to the Big Apple?

    The Drury & Gomez signing at the time, sent a very faint signal to me that raised a little red flag. I was, and consider myself still OK with the move though given the fact that they arent over the hill players and I do indeed look forward to having them on the roster for years to come. But on that same token, I have been forever traumatized by big free agent signing busts in the past. The fact that it is rumored that Sather is STILL pursuing the likes of Ed Jovanoski and during the summer was on the cusp of acquiring Sheldon Souray says a lot to me. Many would argue that his reasoning for pursuing these big names was merely due to the fact that he believed he could win a cup. And I still feel that he believes in this mentality. I personally don’t agree with it nor to I condone such actions to be taken. It’s almost as if they exceeded expectations two years in a row with their new system and all of a sudden due to the success, it warranted bringing in big names to guarentee a cup. And that is where Sather got too excited. It is almost like he had something growing, something BIG, and he stunted that growth.

    I am not saying that bringing in Drury and Gomez was a terrible idea at all, but, the mere fact that he has that mentality doesnt bode well for the organization or for the fans. And I sincerely fear that if the Rangers woes continue, he will make a really really bad move in which he will give up a lot of young talent to bring in another over the hill player, thus reverting back to the Rangers of old. I hope that this concern never becomes a reality.

    Concern Number Two:
    Why we broke up a near perfect team chemistry for two consecutive years is somewhat beyond me, but I guess money usually has a significant impact on stuff like that and things change all the time. I understand and accept. But,I do miss the Moore’s, Ortmeyers, Wards, Cullens, and Rucchins of this world. Boy did they provide such a good spark for this team. But I won’t lament on the past. Whatever. What’s done is done. Old playerse are gone, new ones are in. But, I figured they would be examples of what we are in desparate need of. Ovechkin for example pours his heart on the ice every game, and he is in a terrible hockey city.

    For whatever reason, that spark is no longer here. It’s what pushed us through so many hard times and what motivated so many players and what really gave the garden crowd a huge lift. We dont have that. We have Avery, yes. But, honestly I am almost sick to my stomach hearing about Avery ALL the time. Avery this and Avery that. Yeah, we get it. Avery adds a spark to this team. No Schit. But you know what? We concentrate more on what Avery can provide for this team rather than what everyone else should be doing or what everyone else ISNT doing. Avery isn’t the solution to everything. And every reporter, every analyst, most fans think he IS the answer to everything. He isn’t. Adding more players LIKE him and getting your team on that same mentality on the other hand IS the solution, at least it’s a good segue into it. Right now, it is not apparent at all. They just seem so lethargic right now and I don’t get it. I don’t get it at all. This is why a reality check is in order. Whether it’s letting the coach go, trading Jagr, bringing up the entire Wolf Pack, I DON’T CARE. But Sather has to fix it, and fix it soon.

    Sadly, I see this getting a lot worse before it gets better.

    Sorry for the length guys.

  49. Dr. Ogrodnick on


    The Betts line is a -25 combined. Considering the fact that they bring no offense to the table, a -25 combined for a line who’s sole contribution is to be a shut down line is poor and tells me they aren’t getting it done. Certainly not at a pace that would warrant expanded ice time, and definitely not in a game where we are trailing.

  50. Doodie Machetto on

    Dr.: If they face the top lines night in and night out and are only a combined -25, that’s amazing. That’s like -8 a player. That means they’ve been scored on 8 more times than they have scored. They’ve scored what, 4 goals this season? So that’s 12 times they’ve been scored on. To be scored on 12 times 44 games into the season, when all you do is face the best the other team has to offer is AMAZING.

    Now, if they could each score a few goals, they wouldn’t be a minus at all. THAT’S the problem.

  51. I’m not sure what was stupider the mindless turnovers or the fact that Renney matched the 4th line against the best player in the game. Renney played right into Tortorella’s hands. The top players were glued to the bench in the first. By the time stopped with the retarded matching it was 4-1. Shanny looked awful 5 on 5 he made a terrible play with the puck leading to Tampa taking the lead. He added to the mess on that goal by joining Tyutin in chasing Hlavac. The Rangers defense made Chris Gratton look like the star he was earlier in his career even worse they made Hlavac look like his Czechmnates best circa 00-01. Jagr was flying all over the place as was his linemates but their momentum was stalled by their own coach. The turnovers continued with Drury and Gomez getting tangeled up as well as a bad Dubi turnover leading to a pp goal. Dubi getting benched was strange when the heck is Hossa gonna be made accountable? The Rangers ended up making a comeback but it had alot to do with self destructing. The Lightning are a putrid defensive team with bad goaltending and they don’t play well with the lead or in the third and it showed. The Rangers totally dominated the third with the top line leading the way. Renney putting Dubi with Dawes and Shanny worked as well as Dubi seemed reivivorged after the benching. Mara probably played his best game of the year. The more pp time he gets the better he looks imo. Lundqvist can’t really be faulted too much on the goals but but he looked shaky. Lundqvist seemed to be droppiong to his knees on every shot. Once the Rangers got too 4-3 down the Bolts imploded more the Mara shot off the post was by far the best chance. Did Prucha even play last night? Ottawa took advantage of Tampa and came back on them the Rangers couldn’t get the job done after their coach put em behind the 8 ball. I put the loss squarely on Renney alot of blame should go on the team d too though. Next up is the Flyers I expect Betts to be matched up against the Richards line and Hossa matched up against the Briere line. Jagr will get 12 minutes of icetime Hossa and Hollweg over 25 and Dawes will get two minutes of icetime(at most)

  52. Btb Ortmeyer scored his 4th goal last night. I bet he’ll end up outscoring the 4th line and Hossa. I’m glad Sather choose Hossa over Orty.

  53. Confirmed: Getting much worse before it gets better.

    The kicker, and the reason I want to just *smoke* the people saying “don’t worry, it’s early, the playoffs are different” etc…is that there are NO signs pointing to improvement what so ever… no changes coming. No dramatic shake ups, no trades.

    Ted Nolan benched the shit out of Miro Satan the other night cause he was not playing the way he’s supposed to. Then showed Satan leaning over and intently watching the game, chomping at the bit for a chance to get back out there. That kind of thing needs to happen here.


    Renney is not a good coach.
    The power play is atrocious.
    Renney has benefited from a hungry Jagr and an outstanding Lundqvist.
    Those two have covered up for his many flaws.
    Betts, Hollweg, Orr and Hossa are one click past useless.
    (Betts has 7 assists in 191 games with NYR. 7.)
    Ryan Callahan is a nice marginal prospect, but giving him 24 games to get going was a bit much, especially at the expense of Nigel Dawes.

    It is time to shift the paradigm to further enhance the expectations of the hockey club.

  55. Forced into hiding.... on


    Isn’t Renney benching the whipping boy now? Hasn’t Renney benched guys like Hossa this season?

    You can tell the fans that were beaten as a child…They only relate to harsh treatment of players…It’s sad..

  56. They really need SOME kind of change. At this point I don’t even care what it is. That dressing room does NOT believe in itself. They need someone to come in and shake things up. Whether that’s a coach, a defenseman, a foward or Al Montoya- I don’t care. All I know is that something is needed. This is Sather’s job- to recognize this and make it happen.

  57. Forced into hiding.... on


    Burns has been Cancer free for two years. He has a job working for the Devils..

    Nice try at a dark humor though..Next time try using your brain…

  58. Drury-Gomez-Jagr Dawes-Dubinsky-Shanahan(put together mid second period) Hossa-Moore-Prucha Hollweg-Betts-Orr

  59. Drury Gomez Jagr
    Shanahan Dubinsky Prucha
    Dawes Moore Hossa
    Orr Betts Hollweg

    I think these were the lines. I only remember the Betts line and Gomez line for sure. Those were the only two on the ice last night.

    Staal Rosi
    Girardi Tuyts
    Mara Struds

  60. Salty,
    Good call. There are NO signs of anything getting better… or even changing.

    This squad plays a defense first system and gave up 4 goals to Tampa.

    This squad that has Jagr, Gomez, Drury and Shanahan have had problems putting the puck in the net all year. Especially so on the powerplay. Last night was no different… when the game was on the line, they didn’t have one really good scoring chance in 1:24 of 5 on 3.

    That’s telling.

    They aren’t out of the play-offs race yet… but how long do you wait to realize that this team is in trouble?

    Does the coach giving them an unscheduled day off tell you anything?

  61. The HBO line may do a decent job against top lines, but checking lines are supposed to have potential offensive ability. Look at the Devils who play the most boring defensive hockey in the league, their checking center (be it Madden or Holik back in the day) could always score. I am fine with using Betts and Orr every day on the 4th line and pk duty for betts. But Hollweig and orr should not get more or even remotely close to the same amount of icetime as prucha, dawes, or dubinsky and now Moore. Hossa and Betts should be the fourth line with a rotation of orr and byers. hollweig may be a great guy in the lockeroom but his shot is pathetic, and he still is prone to take bad penalties(or at least he will never get the benefit of the doubt). But these are Renney’s guys so I don’t expect anything to change in this regard.

    Jagr’s line could have done fine against vinny and st. louis who are not known for their defense. come playoff time do you want guys who can potentially score on the ice or people who can at best keep the other lines at bay without adding a sniff of offense?

  62. Thanks Nasty! By the way, when did Messier say that Renney overcoaches? Is Renney the Tony LaRusa of hockey?

  63. longtimerangersfan on


    January 9th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
    January 8th, 2008 at 10:08 pm
    “If the Icelanders win tonight, the Rangers will officially drop out of the playoff picture.”

    Beer me said: OH! I totally missed them say that the season ended today! How did I miss that??!?

    Beer me, what I meant was that they are out of the playoff picture NOW if the Islanders win but I was incorrect…they only needed a tie and now the Rangers are in 9th place.

  64. longtimerangersfan on

    January 9th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
    January 8th, 2008 at 10:08 pm
    “If the Icelanders win tonight, the Rangers will officially drop out of the playoff picture.”

    Beer me said: OH! I totally missed them say that the season ended today! How did I miss that??!?

    Beer me, what I meant was that they are out of the playoff picture NOW if the Islanders win but I was incorrect…they only needed a tie and now the Rangers are in 9th place.

  65. Isn’t Renney benching the whipping boy now? Hasn’t Renney benched guys like Hossa this season?

    You clearly do not understand many things, do you?

    Messages need to be sent to players that are not living up to their capabilities. Hossa is shit, and is basically not even on the team, very very very poor example by you. Benching him doesn’t mean anything, he shouldn’t even be here to begin with. Benching Satan is a pretty substantial move by Nolan.

  66. sure steve- jags, drury and gomez, shanny, dawes and moore (to start), pruchs, dubi and hossa and hbo, with staal and rozey, struds and mara, and toots and girardi.

    the worst loss of the season for me last night. i’m watching a team and a coach with no sense of urgency, getting down 4-1 to another hapless team on a downward spiral. he’s rolling four lines and they need goals. i have never seen any team get shots blocked like the rangers do. coaches tweak things during the course of games when they’re not working. this one doesn’t. it’s getting too late in the season for this team to come together. drury? what a mistake. when he’s not moving his legs what a detriment he is on the ice. this team is a mess. sad. and then a possible comeback, a 5 on 3, pp after pp and this rookie goalie starts playing like hasek. worst loss of the year afaic.

  67. So I just came back from lunch and I know this is off topic. But its funny to me. I sit at my desk all day going back and forth from the site but some people don’t post anything till lunch timeish. Slackers the Rangers Report is an all day affair. Just kidding but I thought it was a funny assessment to break up the monotony of the same conversation about TR and the 4th line.

  68. Doodie Machetto on

    “Burns has been Cancer free for two years. He has a job working for the Devils..”

    Actually, I had no idea. Too bad he’s with the Debbies.

    PS, you know the Rangers are bad when they’re losing at home while the Knicks are winning at home.

  69. longtimefan – 6 points out of the div lead with 39 games to play is not out of the playoff picture. if you’re done, then be done. bye.

  70. Doodie Machetto on

    Beer Me! I think you’re missing his point. He’s saying that they currently do not hold a playoff spot. Nothing more, nothing less.

  71. I just want to know what it feels like to be a Red Wings fan for a few years.. I mean look at them.. when was the last time they sucked? Why can’t we have the same feeling as Rangers’ fans/!?!

  72. why can’t the team play with the urgency and energy that they had in the 3rd period? If they played the entire game that way they would have 2 points today. What happened to playing every shift like it was your last?

    and why the hell is Tyutin deflecting an unobstructed point shot? Lundqvist would have eaten that shot up.

  73. Agree about Drury being a detriment on the ice about 60% of the time. I was the the game last night… he just fumbles pucks consistently. What *really* upsets me is that they let him wear the *A* in Straka’s absence. The man does not deserve it yet, if you are willing to give it to someone as new as him to the club…how are you going to not give it to Scott Gomez? Gomez shows up to skate every night, never takes a shift off, and is only getting better and better every night. Drury is simply not clicking in NY. Here I am thinking of all the things we could get for Drury and his contract that would fit in for the future of this team, and we’re prepping him to be our next *CAPTAIN*??? I like Drury and all, his goal the other night was awesome and finally showed us first hand some of that “clutch” shit… but I watch him like a hawk, and what I see *most* of the time is fumble/giveaway/slowfeet/slapshot from 10 feet away. Okay, he’s winning faceoffs, so is Blair Betts. Drury has played like a 3rd liner all year. I like him but something needs to happen to light a fire under his ass, and giving him the *A* is not that something.

    He did have a big hit last night though, that really got the crowd going.

  74. Pavel- the last time the redwings were under .500 was 1990 and they were only about 6 or 7 under.

  75. Forced into hiding.... on


    Renney has benched Nylander in the past….He has benched Mara, Malik, Prucha, Callahan, and Hossa this season at times…What else do you want…

    If you want to bash Drury that’s fine be my guest but take into account he was playing out of postion last night. Drury is also valuable on the pk and on faceoffs..You realize how important those things are don’t you?

    It’s time to open your eyes…complain…jump up and down but do yourself a favor…don’t be joe q rangers fan..think outside the box and come up with a solution..

  76. “Renney has benched Nylander in the past….He has benched Mara, Malik, Prucha, Callahan, and Hossa this season at times… *What else do you want?*”

    AGAIN, Look at the players you mentioned!!! They are NOBODIES! Renney bullies players but *does not have the balls* to pull that move on an “important” player like Jagr/Drury or Gomez/Shanahan (if it were needed, which luckily it’s not). His big name players have nothing to worry about. Drury being on a cup team way back when affords him captaincy in NY 8 years later?? Sorry, I don’t f*cking agree with that at all. He’s done nothing special here to speak of. Maybe he does a pre-game voodoo chant in the locker room or something? Gimmicks seem to go along way with this team, if you can’t play hockey, you can at least be a “good/fun/team guy” and keep your roster spot huh?

    Also, Nylander isn’t/wasn’t a big name player. He was GREAT here, but he was never a threat to Renney, and he had no problem giving him a seat. Not to mention…and do you remember what happened with Nylander after he sat? I think you do.

  77. C) The coaching staff and upper management needs a day to construct a new plan before things get even worse.


    This is what I’m hoping for at the very least…it’s high time.

  78. Bring back Lohan on

    Hey, couple of thoughts….
    1) Someone called the people that are nervous, panicking, whatever you want to call them, Fair Weather Fans. That just doesnt make sense. Would they be on a Rangers blog if they all the sudden gave a shit? Probably not, I would bet 95%+ of us are lifelong Rangers fans.
    2) I disagree with those who are bashing Drury and also Betts. In Betts, I couldnt ask for a better 4th line center. The guy plays hard, and he is willing to go face first into a hard shot to block it. That takes the BALLS that all of us want our team’s players to have. As for Drury, I think he has played great over the last 10-15 games. Not scoring a ton is a bit of an issue, but I believe he can break 30 still.
    3) My most important point. What the hell was TB’s Roy doing? Was he threatening Orr? I bet a suspension could come. That was just WEIRD. Anyone have any more insight on what went on there?

  79. Bring back Lohan on

    One last thing…
    what if Renney holds a press conference and starts to cry a little bit on the podium….I mean, it helped Hillary win right?

  80. Forced into hiding.... on

    Mara, Malik and Prucha are no nobodies. Look at there careers then come back to me..

    Then when your done doing that look at Nylanders career. You are simply clueless and i’m done responding to somebody that is the thomas pock of posters…

    now i know why i don’t miss posting on message boards…

    Salty in the future think before you yourself a favor because you sound like a fool

  81. Hartley is crappy. the thrashers are playing better under the GM Waddell than under him.

    and the red wings have flopped in the playoffs for the last several years, and they now have trouble even filling the JL arena. their fans are upset with the early playoff exits, and with the euro style hockey with no tough guy such as Kocur, probert, Mccarty as in the past. in fact, they now have Mccarty in the minors ready to bring him back because they are so vulnerable to rough stuff in the playoffs like Anaheim did to them last year.

  82. “Mara, Malik and Prucha are no nobodies. Look at there careers then come back to me..”


    You don’t honestly speak those names (or Nylander’s) in the same context as as BRENDAN SHANAHAN, JAROMIR JAGR, CHRIS DRURY, & SCOTT GOMEZ, do you? What a *dipshit!!*


    Also there/their/they’re… work on those for a little while, and then you’re allowed to keep talking in here.


  83. Forced into hiding.... on


    I’m done…you’ve proven my point, retards can be provoked..

    when your best response of the day is “lol” I’m wasting my time..

    also my grammar is off and i still don’t care..

    again, i’m done!

  84. Western Canada Survivor on

    Jim Schoenfeld or Pat Quinn would need about 3 hours with this team to whip them into shape. Pat Burns would be ideal, but no way the Devils give him up.

    I think the key here is that Renney is just in way over his head. Outside of his one season coaching the Canucks (mind you, another highly underachieving team that Renney forced to play a defensive syste-sorry but Bure, Mogilny, Naslund are not a fit for that system, hence the reason they missed the playoffs), this is his only professional coaching experience outside of the Juniors. It’s kind of like a college baseball coach managing the Yankees.

    I appreciate all of the differences of opinion here, and don’t get me wrong, plenty of guys aren’t playing up to snuff, but I think it’s pretty myopic to say that Renney is not a major culprit. Additionally, we are 4 points less than we were at this point last year. Finally, on a personal note, I don’t want to disclose on this board how much I spent on going to Canada this past week, or how much I spend on season tickets, or however much I spend on this team, and certainly nobody forces me to buy tickets, but it’s kind of insulting to be called a whiner and blind–I put a lot into a team that should be much better and that has shown signs they can be. The East is such garbage and we are 8 points out of last-it is time to panic a bit.

  85. “I’m done…you’ve proven my point, retards can be provoked..”


    I thought your big point was MALIK, MARA, HOSSA, and PRUCHA are hall of famers???


    dude, stick around this is good stuff that keeps the board alive

  86. czechthemout!!!!! on

    Reading some blogs on the team today,couldn’t believe some of the garbage I read.All the Renney defenders were out in full force,particularly on this site.Some of the doozies that came out today:

    “The fourth line is -24 combined,that’s great.Being that they’ve only scored 3 goals between them they are matched against the other teams top line they are really doing thier job” NO THEY ARE NOT.If you extrapilate those numbers,that gives you an almost -48 on the season hardly a good shut down line.I think that one came from Doodie.

    Than there was one where someone said that Renney has some sort of secret game plan or system that he’s yet to unviel and is waiting for the last part of the season and the playoffs.

    Than a more recent post that said we are only “4pts below where we were last year”Well lets see,since we barley made the playoffs last year,extrapilating from where we are today,gives us about 6or7 pts less than last year.Say bye bye playoffs.

    Their were other less outragous quotes and posts here and on some other blogs that I just did not wan’t to show here.

    It’s amazing what a grip on the psyche RENNEYADE has.Even after such a completly disgracefull coaching performance,some are still intoxicated by it.

  87. dlb – You’ve got it all wrong about the Red Wings. They don’t fill seats for the same reason that the Braves don’t: They win so much in the regular season, they don’t care. The playoffs are all that matters to those fans.

    IT has nothing to do with “lack of a tough guy”. they have one of the NHL’s all time toughest in Chelios, not to mention Dallas Drake and Kirk Maltby.

  88. So I guess it’s safe to assume that Renney will do better when players like Shanahan and Jagr are off the team and replaced by the likes of Cherepanov and Anisimov? It sounds like he does better with less achieved players.

  89. prucha , you don’t know what you are talking about. maybe if you went to the source you would know something. fyi, they did a SURVEY of actual red wings season ticket holders, and those were THEIR reasons for the dropoff in interest in the wings. so, don’t try to hand me any theory, this is what the ACTUAL red wings season ticket holders say, period.

    and if you think that Chelios and drake and maltby are tough guys, you are really out of touch.

    chelios is 45 and just pokechecks nowadays, and the other 2 are agitators who do not fight and they are injured as well

  90. Czhech

    Well researched . Renney and the Renney media cannot hide those facts. It is an insult to every knowledgable Ranger fan to keep those facts out of the everyday Ranger print. It doesn’t count if it shows up in blogland. The facts belong In PRINT. When Messier or someone similar gets his hands on this organization it will change as fast as NYC did when Rudy Giulliani became Mayor. Accountability from the TOP down. Not from the 3d line down.

  91. renney could not organize a 2-car parade.

    it is telling to see the fawning media continue to downplay any criticism of him. as long as they get some nice quotes from a nice guy, he can blunder all he wants.

  92. M Hurley – you’re using Bettman math. according to the standings 7 teams out of 30 are under .500. if you add in OT losses and shootout losses you would be much closer to the real number of 15 (exactly 15 in fact including our Rangers)

    our youth is so far overrated it isn’t funny. especially our normal 3rd line (some combo of Cally, Prucha, Dubinsky and throw in Dawes for good measure although one poster is ready to put his name up in the rafters. missing Avery and Straka and with Shanny significantly impacted by his latest injury we need both the youth and so called stars to step up. neither are. JJ is pouting over the system. But for the youth fanatics who want more and more youth in the lineup. be careful what you wish for unless your goal is a top 5 draft pick. Dawes and the Hartford guys are not the short term answer (this yr or seemingly next). I don’t think we have any Rick Middleton’s among guys I’ve seen wearing the RAnger blue this yr among the forwards.

  93. I think Renney winds up getting a pass because he followed the most miserable coaches ever to stand behind the bench in Low and Trottier (and Sather), guys who aren’t even coaching peewees now. Renney did, in fact, get the team to once again give a rat’s butt about the sweater and take some pride in their game. Unfortunately that’s only about 50% of the job – the other half is actually coaching.

  94. czech/ John M last night’s game was one of the worst coached games ever by Renney & any other coach. It was shameful from top to bottom, and they almost came back

    “There’s no question you run the risk of a checking line taking up lots of minutes from your guys that might be able to score goals and win games for you,” Renney said. “But’s that the coaching decision, and I have no problem with that.”…

    he should be ashamed to make that statement without saying more than that. I’m tired of him blaming the players when they lose, and taking the credit when they win. He’s not man enough to admit a mistake. That’s not a leader. He doesn’t have the desire & the rest needed to win The Cup.

  95. Bill Clement is a guy we could use as coach.

    The 4th line shuts down the other teams top lines: Lecav, Crosby, etc. Now you guys want them to score goals too? Damn, why not ask them to solve world hunger while you are at it. Gimme a break.

    Lines 1-3 play like dogpoop and we blame the 4th line and Renney? Tough crowd. Those guys on lines 1-3 should try scoring goals at 5 on 5 and set an example for the 4th line.

    Look, last night Renney matched Torts. That was probably a dumb move. He should have been double shifting the first line from the outset. But blaming the 4th line isn’t the answer.

    What about blaming -3 Jags, -3 Drury, -3 Gomer, or -2 Shanny? What about blaming Gomer for not hitting anyone in the D zone? What about blaming the 10 shots we took from the point on the 5 on 3, of which like 9 missed the net? Rule #1 on a 5 on 3 is, you don’t take slappers from the point, you pass it around til you have the open shot. That is basic coaching at its simplest. Some of that is on the star players and yes, some is on Renney.

    But no way anyone here in their right mind can take shots at the 4th line for their play last night.

    Renney can’t get them motivated. Yes, given. Renney has a lot of them playing individually still. Yes, given. Renney has no balls to discipline Jags or anyone on his level for slacking. Yes, given. Perhaps Renney is to blame for terrible decision making.

    But please don’t blame the 4th line.

    Also, there is so much parity in the East that until the Rangers are in 12th place in the conference and out of 8th by like 10 points, I am not writing them off. I will be disgusted and sad and pissed off, but there is still a chance for them to do OK. And I have said this before, in a 7 game series, only Ottawa has me nervous. We are playing well but not scoring. Wins matter, I know. But in a 7 game series, a few bounces (and no stupid deflections n favor of the other team) and all of a sudden we have a decent chance.

    BTW, Sather is the headless man in this organization and commenting on Dolan is not even worth the typing. It starts from the top down.

    And on the Detroit Red Wings and their success and any players in any other city outside of NYC, there is nothing else to do in Detroit other than watch sports. In NYC you have hot chicks, sick bars, nightclubs, restaurants, theater, museums, etc etc (not that any of that is part of what I do anymore now that I have 2 kids under 2.5 years). But all these players come here, get paid big jang, and then run around and party like rock stars. In Detroit all you have are the Pistons and gang bangers. There are no distractions. I truly believe it is easier to be a pro athlete in cities other than NYC because of all the bright lights here.

    Why do you think the song goes, “…if you can make it there you’ll make it anywhere….” They didn’t write that song about Detroit!

  96. Doodie Machetto on

    ““The fourth line is -24 combined,that’s great.Being that they’ve only scored 3 goals between them they are matched against the other teams top line they are really doing thier job” NO THEY ARE NOT.If you extrapilate those numbers,that gives you an almost -48 on the season hardly a good shut down line.I think that one came from Doodie.”

    You misunderstand me. I’m saying they shut down the other team’s top lines well. Which they do. Dividing that by 3 (as it is a COMBINED minus 48) gives you 16 goals against by the other team’s top talent over a whole season is AMAZING. You figure a good defensive team gives up around 220 goals in a season. That would mean just over 1/15 of our goals against were from the other teams’ top talent at even strength. That would be unheard of.

    The PROBLEM is that if it could actually score some goals, it wouldn’t be such a big minus. It also would provide the top lines from carrying the complete offensive burden.

  97. I DON’t blame the 4th line. they ARE doing the job Renney gives them. I blame RENNEY when Hollweg gets a late game penalty in Edm. because he should not have been out there in that situation. that is RENNEY’S fault. that is why I partly disagree with posters who bash the 4th line. that is RENNEY who puts them in that situation, and the more ice time he rewards them with tells them to keep doing the same thing.

    the problem is RENNEY, not the 4th line guys. they don’t send themselves onto the ice. guess who does.

  98. goal by Prucha on

    New Newman, no one expects the 4th line to score. No one said they expected them to score. It was a dumb move by Renney to have them out there so much when we needed to score.

  99. New Newma,

    I dont think people are blaming the 4th line, but the fact that those are the players renney wants out there against the top guy is reflective of what kind of coach he is. he likes the scrappy players without much talent who will play perfectly in his “system.” It is clear he does not know how to handle elite offensive players (he does know how to defer to formerly great offensive players tho) or develop offensive talent in young players. if he did he would have played prucha on the powerplay consistently the last two years and hossa would never have been above the fourth line. bottom line i don’t think any of our young players are going to blossom into stars under renney and pearn who has no idea how to coach the powerplay. Pearn and Renney claim they tell the players to camp in front of the net and shoot the puck more on the powerplay, but it doesn’t happen. If the players aren’t doing what you tell them you bench them, regardless of the name on the sweater. Renney would never bench Shanny or Jagr…Keenan isn’t the answer even if he was available b/c he isnt the coach to develop a lot of youth either, but you need a coach like him who would hold every player accountable..just ask the man who’s number is about to go up in the rafters

  100. Adam and his apple on

    hilarious how this blog gets way more comments when the rangers are suckin, people love to dwell on negatives instead of rejoicing on the positive, now i know its obvious this rangers team has problems, well turn it around, just wait for after the allstar break, we only play well when we have to, so when we really need it our team is gonna pick it up, trust me on this

  101. yeah, let’s all put our heads in the sand and just trust this used-car salesman that everything will be hunky-dory if we just wish upon a star.

    and incidentally, YOU are being negative toward negative posters. so practice what you preach.

  102. Adam and his apple on

    renney is smarter than you guys think, he has a plan in place, hes always found a way in his first 2 years, im giving him the benefit of the doubt, why is everybody so quick to fire him? hes the best coach weve had for so long, you really want a coaching change in the middle of the season? then our chances to win the cup are greatly decreased, we gotta stick with our guns and hope for the best, i think a trade might not be such a bad idea, or just get rid of 2/3 of that 4th line, hollweg and orr are spare parts, the black aces of this team, that kid greg moore looks like he really fits, has some decent hands, throw him and hossa on that line and it doesnt looks so damn bad anymore, no need for a checking line anymore, in this NHL, just have 4 lines that can score and move the puck, if you have the puck the other team cant score

  103. Adam the apple, from your mouth to His ears. When you wish upon a star…..

    So it seems clear that Renney is to blame more than anything else right now. That is the gist of what I am reading here. I don’t disagree. Do you blame the coach or the players for not being coachable? Clearly Jags doesn’t want to hear how he should play.

    But it seems like we want Renney’s head. I truly think you have to give him til the end of the season. If no playoffs, can him. If we exit in the first round, can him. If we win 1 round, he kinda has to stay, IMHO.

    The parity in the East just might save his butt.

  104. “But it seems like we want Renney’s head. I truly think you have to give him til the end of the season. If no playoffs, can him. If we exit in the first round, can him. If we win 1 round, he kinda has to stay, IMHO.

    The parity in the East just might save his butt.”

    This is what bothers me, it’s like there’s no thought process involved. The Rangers barely making the playoffs the last two seasons does not necessarily make Renney a good or even decent coach … suppose they squeak in again this year … I still think Renney should be canned. There’s no reason for a team with this calibre of players to be in 9th place, other than being a poorly run/organized club. It’s gotten to the point where if you don’t recognize this as beyond awful, I’ll give you credit for being a blindly faithful fan, but I’d also question your ability to see the big picture and understand that this is a really bad situation with no visible light at the end of the tunnel.

    Laughing stock of the NHL. Again.

  105. Exactly the east is so weak that merely winning one round in the playoffs shouldn’t ensure Renney gets his job back. and apple it would be great if they got rid of hollweig but we locked him up for two years and Renney loves the guy, so I don’t see him or Orr going anywhere. If Straka is going to be back as soon as Thursday I would put Prucha (and if Renney really needs a defensive presence on that line by all means use his wunderkin Hossa) with Jagr and Gomez so Drury can center the second line

  106. and was Renneys plan the last two years for Jagr/Henrik to carry the whole team two years ago and then have Sean Avery play out of his mind for 20 games so the Rangers could sneak into the playoffs? If so then he is a genius.

  107. Western Canada Survivor on

    A team who has a defense consisting of Karel Rachunek, Sheldon Brookbank, and Mike Mottau is six points ahead of us. The Caps are 4 points behind us. The East is a joke-there is no reason we should have to squeak into the playoffs again. I don’t watch this team hoping that we can latch onto the eighth spot-we’re better than that.

  108. “and was Renneys plan the last two years for Jagr/Henrik to carry the whole team two years ago and then have Sean Avery play out of his mind for 20 games so the Rangers could sneak into the playoffs? If so then he is a genius.”

    thank you thank you thank you for having a working perception of reality

  109. “WCS. their netminder has carried them for 15 years. lundqvist will NEVER have those #’s.”

    There’s a lot of truth to that BM. But let’s be real about it too: NJD has a culture of pride and winning in the locker room. They are a very well run, no bullshit team. They are another team like Detriot, that is somehow always good….and it’s not 100% Marty. That team expects to win and finds a way. Now that Marty is softening they seem to be putting more pucks in the net to compensate. I don’t think NYR will ever have that kind of ethic. They will alwyas be my love, but I’m starting to think I may need to adopt another team to follow/supplement, that I can actually be proud of from time to time. Might be nice keep an eye on the black cawk kids to see if they can bring hockey back to chitown.

  110. Ladies, ladies please. Let’s all just relax. It is easy to see what is going on here. All the back and forth insults is just too much now. The team is not good right now. There is not a think that anyone on this blog can do about it. We have to just watch like the rest of the fans and see how it all unfolds. I know some of you are PMSing, but just relax a bit. I really am not too worried just yet. Can me blind or whatever you want, but there is a whole lot of season left to play as I said yesterday. And 18 of the games are against division rivals.

  111. Salty – bite your tongue! haha
    And if marty isn’t 100%, he’s 99%. Do we see what happens when Weeks plays?

    Nasty – i’m on your side. i’m staying out of these conversations for now. A voice of reason only falls on deaf ears here.

  112. SAM – I know you’re probably at the rink already. But we’d like to know what some of the guys did with their unscheduled off-day.

    Did Malik get that AK-47 he wants so bad? Did he buy new luggage?

  113. nasty- didn’t mean that YOU were staying out of them, meant just myself.

    for clarity’s sake.

  114. I hear ya. I just felt like being a little sarcastic because it gets a little ridiculous in here sometimes. It is one thing to vent, it is another to beat some things to death.

  115. “Can me blind or whatever you want, but there is a whole lot of season left to play as I said yesterday. And 18 of the games are against division rivals.”

    I’m just curious what you think, if anything, is going to change for the better in the next couple of months? I’m trying to wrap my head around how you guys can honestly come here, play holier – fan – than – thou and claim you’re “not worried”, y’know? How is this not blind faith?

  116. Pete had the only response to my question, which I guess means that Renney won’t be better with the younger player replacements next year. I don’t buy that, since he played with a bunch of nobodies, to add to Jagr, Straka, and Nylander in 2005-06, and made the playoffs, although finishing weakly, losing nine games.

    I’m worried, but the sky is not falling for me yet. We should be a lot farther ahead, but we were in first (in the division) at some point, and we’ve beaten Ottawa, so I’m pretty confident we can climb back up. Remember that the Devils haven’t beaten us or the Islanders yet, so that will pose a problem to them winning the division.

  117. Because I believe that we have the right people on this team but they are not playing the right system. I said all year that I would rather this team play the way we did in the beginning of the season and win 1-0, 2-1 games. Everyone bitched and moaned that we need to score more. Yada yada yada. Well we can score more, but we lose. Against our division we have been solid and can make up a lot of points of we can keep on the strong play against the division rivals. There was a point in my post in mentioning the 18 games against division rivals. Wipe the hate and anger out of your eyes and realize that.

  118. Doodie Machetto on

    “Because I believe that we have the right people on this team but they are not playing the right system.”

    So… new coach then?

  119. I don’t know if it is a new coach, or just go back to playing defense only hockey and just wait to capitalize on the other teams mistakes. If we can’t win the way we are playing now…..

  120. on the bright side, over the last 5 games strudwick has played his best hockey as a ranger.

    let’s all take a step back from the proverbial ledge and see what kind of adjustments are made tonight. remember that we’re playing minus 2 of our top 6 forwards.

  121. That is what I mean. Great teams can win when 2 top 6 forwards are out. The rangers can not. Because we are not a GREAT team, we are a mediocre to good team at best.

  122. I liked what was happening at the beginnning, we were winning the 1-0 games, because it seems like the more goals we score the more Hank relaxes in net(meaning letting in goals that shouldn’t be let in). I’m not heading for the train tracks yet. Is it getting annoying watching Us play 1 period a night? No doubt. We didn’t wake up last year until we had about 25 games left. I think the leadership is too good on this team for them not to pull out of this. Everyone on here is frustrated, as am I, but don’t ridicule some fans on here because they have their own opinion. We are all frustrated, its a pain having all this talent and no results.

  123. I have not ridiculed anyone, I am just trying to gently, and with some humor help a few people away from the ledge.

  124. Bring back Lohan on

    hey, no one answered me yesterday….what the hell was Roy on TB doing in the box? was he threatening orr? strange….

  125. longtimerangersfan on

    Doodie Machetto
    January 9th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
    Beer Me! I think you’re missing his point. He’s saying that they currently do not hold a playoff spot. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Thanks, Doodie…thought I made myself clear but apparently not.

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