And then there were 23

250

Gentlemen (and ladies), start your second-guessing.

First, what we know:

  • We know Nigel Dawes, Artem Anisimov, and Al Montoya were all just reassigned to Hartford.
  • We know that defenseman Andrew Hutchinson, who’s been in limbo for the better part of a week, was finally placed on waivers, and will go to Hartford if he clears.
  • We know that former first-round draft pick Marc Staal will be part of the opening night roster, as will Brandon Dubinsky, who will likely begin the season at third-line center.
  • We know the Rangers, for the time being at least, will carry eight defensemen, opting to keep Thomas Pock in New York.

    Now, what we can surmise:

  • That the decision didn’t take Tom Renney (and Glen Sather and Jim Schoenfeld) long. Granted, it’s safe to say this was discussed throughout camp, so it’s not like everyone just started thinking about it over lunch today. But if the weekend — and specifically, Dawes’ strong performance over the weekend — appeared to complicate things, it didn’t take long to sort out.
  • That the concern about not having a spot for Dawes on the first three lines was legitimate. On talent, or merit, alone, Dawes is one of the 12 best forwards in the Rangers organization. But Renney must have concluded he’s not the type of player you stash on the fourth line, or worse, bench for games on end. Hence, he will begin the season in Hartford.
  • That the combination of Montoya’s NHL salary, and the expected heavy workload for Henrik Lundqvist, were the deciding factors in keeping Stephen Valiquette in New York. As with Dawes, on merit alone, Montoya deserved the job. But maybe not if the job was playing 10 games all season when he could be developing further in Hartford.
  • That none of these moves are set in stone. We learned this last year with Dan Girardi and Ryan Callahan. I still think Dawes is the first call-up, and that could be just a few games into the season. And as Renney said today, there’s always the chance the No. 3 goalie — in this instance, Montoya — could be brought in for a spot start.

    Lots to discuss. More later…

  • About Author

    250 Comments

    1. Just curious but how do fake a cut on your hand? Does Vally have Michael Jackson makeup artist at home? Were not talking hamstring,groin pull which can be faked easily ala Weekes..but a gash on a hand? haha must have faked that!

    2. REPOST (from before I knew who was sent down):

      Sam, why would they start with 23 players unless they plan on sitting Orrweg every game before injuries? I would think they would start at 21, possibly 22 if Dawes makes the team, with Strudwick sitting. I think the difference between 22 and 23 is Staal. Last year they started with 22, putting Pöck and Orr in the stands. http://www.newyorkrangers.com/pressbox/pressreleases.asp?id=2311 I suppose Orr could start there again, especially with Florida first, with Hossa on the fourth line, but I’m not really convinced of his PK skills. I am going to be pissed if Strudwick makes the team over Pöck.

      I would take Prucha over Callahan. Their toughness is equal to me.

      The IR minimum stay is seven days, for those asking on the other thread.

      Doodie – Quite the opposite. If there is a major injury, they will call a player up from Hartford, if Staal is there, or try to make a trade if possible. Strudwick will only play more than 40 games if there are lots of minor injuries going around, like groin pulls and flus.

    3. Horrible precedent the Rangers are setting. No matter how guys play they dont get a chance at a pro job. Dawes and Montoya out played a lot of guys in this training camp. I wouldnt blame them in the least if they wanted to leave soon

    4. Dawes should have stayed over Dubinsky, but to be fair, I didn’t watch preseason games. Maybe they kept Dubi because he fights, so they can sit Orr. They should send down someone else so they only have one extra forward and defenseman each.

    5. ORR Punch Survivor....Barely!!! on

      Lol Good job Vally. At the last second his cut healed and Monty goes packing. I still wish Monty made the team, but eh. Vally and Hank are pretty good friends. Maybe he’d feel more comfy that way.

      This is good though, in my opinion Dubi deserves the shot more then Dawes, let Dawes take Shanny’s spot next season. If he retires, which i hate to say.

    6. what a joke that Dawes is gone and we have to watch Hossa play because he is good with the puck along the boards.

    7. “Just curious but how do fake a cut on your hand? Does Vally have Michael Jackson makeup artist at home? Were not talking hamstring,groin pull which can be faked easily ala Weekes..but a gash on a hand? haha must have faked that!”

      it was Renney’s plan all along so he wouldn’t have to play Montoya. Because if Valiquette played more than half a game in preseason and got lit up like a Christmas tree fans wouldn’t approve, so they decided not playing him at all. And hope the dumb fans just gobble it up with all the Kool-Aid

    8. Prucha and Callahan same toughness? Callahan trumps prucha in toughness, and it isn’t even close.

    9. ORR Punch Survivor....Barely!!! on

      SPIDERPIG

      Dubi isnt the best fighter in the world….he has balls, but he’s not gonna fight Janssen, and all those other retard enforcers and keep them in line. We need Orr.

    10. Good for Dubi- he looked great in preseason- faster, not afraid to take the body, fight, strong on his legs… not that dawes didnt look great as well (he will be up soon enough), but right now there is a glut at wing and an opening at center, so the center wins by default (not that either of them didnt earn their spot)

    11. ORR is Better then Strudwick, Strudwick is Better then Yenner, Jagr is Better then You! on

      ROB L

      Hossa is a 4th liner now…I rather have a 4th liner who is good at D, then a 4th liner in Dawes who will do nothing.

      Dawes will get his shot next year. he needs to be patient and have a great camp next year.

    12. Prucha is a cupcake that gets knocked on his butt often.

      Montoya played the best of all 3 goalies and gets sent down.

      Same old Rangers. Playing favorites and not giving draft choices a chance to win a job

    13. Gotta agree with these cuts are crap. Sorry, but Valiquette is pointless. I have no faith in him whatsoever. Gosh I hope Henrik finds his form. Hossa is a joke. We are carrying 8 D-men. So does that mean that Staal and Pock will not see the action that they need to see. I wouldn’t be surprised if Staal is eventually sent down to Hartford too. Montoya would have been good just because he played well and he is actually competition for Henrik. Henrik has seemed to play when he knows there is competition. Plus, Montoya needs to see NHL playing time just to up his trade value.

      Dawes got royally screwed. The only cut I agree with is Anisimov.

    14. Elena – “Dawes got royally screwed. The only cut I agree with is Anisimov.”

      Absolutely. He made the team last year AND this year, and he’s cut. He dominated the AHL last year, but I doubt he’s going to even try this year. What’s the point? You work so hard to make it to the NHL, achieve it twice, but are just sent down to the minors anyway.

    15. “it was Renney’s plan all along so he wouldn’t have to play Montoya. Because if Valiquette played more than half a game in preseason and got lit up like a Christmas tree fans wouldn’t approve, so they decided not playing him at all. And hope the dumb fans just gobble it up with all the Kool-Aid”

      So what your saying is Renney had Valiquette put a knife into his own hand because he is so bad that he didnt want him to play preseason games…and only play in games that counted because then the fans wont get on him if he loses a regular season game?

    16. Dude, Dawes needs to have a better camp next year to make the team. He was one of the top rookies in camp this year. He should have made the team, just like Montoya. Valiquette didn’t even play in preseason and he made the team. Montoya played than the rest of the goalies combined. Oops, I’m sorry if we don’t have Montoya and Dawes in Hartford, then they won’t win. (Sorry I don’t think these cuts were fair).

    17. Elena – have you ever seen Valiquette play? Aside from the game he started and won and those 2 spot shots in bad games last season? Just curious..cuz you said you have no faith in him..just look at his career numbers..everywhere he’s played he has done very well…including NHL

    18. Robby Bonfire on

      Who among us didn’t know this club would fuk it up, big time? This is a surprise? Sather was going to change his chicken-liver spots and actually give jobs to young players who out-performed older guys all the way through camp?

      Guess we can stop speculating that camp results and pre-season game performances change pre-concieved management notions and philosophy. This dirt-bag GM now thinks the Rangers are ready to challenge for the Cup, this year. Watch for more Dupuis’ and Krog’s to land here, before anyone in Hartford under 35 gets a chance.

      Sickening, isn’t it.

    19. Keeping Staal means they’re planning on playing Staal. Pock and Strudwick will sit. It’s the same logic behind sending down Montoya. They won’t keep Staal here just to have him sit half the games. He’ll play at least 70 games if healthy.

    20. Dawes didn’t have a spot on the team and will be brought up the moment someone is hurt. People are stupid. They complain about how the organization plays favorites, but yet they complain when their favorites get send down. DAWES HAS NO SPOT ON THIS TEAM. Plain and simple. Dubinsky has a spot on the team because 3rd line center was a bigger hole than top 6 winger. Especially since there is no hole in the top 6 winger spot. Who do you want Dawes to replace? Straka? Shanny? Jagr? Prucha? Callahan? Avery?

      BTW, considering who Dubinsky played with and the amount of minutes he was given in comparison to Dawes, Dubinsky was the much better and well rounded player.

    21. Okay, yeah, Montoya is probably better than Valliquette, but long term for the organization, they need to develop a kid like Montoya. Goalies get better by playing. Montoya won’t play in New York. That argument is valid before the Salary Cap is brought in, which makes it a no brainer. This is a business and long term decision in the best interests of the team. If Hank gets injured, Montoya will be recalled and he will play and Valliquette will continue to be the backup.

      Dawes deserves to be here, but part of being a GM is managing assets. Hossa and Pock might not be our top players, but they would surely be claimed if waived. This gives the team options to turn these assets into other players/picks/ whatever to further the development of the organization. He’ll be up as soon as an injury occurs (or a trade is made).

      How can anyone say that kids aren’t given a chance in this organization when Staal (who has yet to play a professional game) and Dubinsky just made the roster (and Mark Smith was released and picked up by Calgary and Hutchinson was waived)? This in addition to Callahan and Girardi cementing regular roles on the team. The year before that we added a slew of rookies including Lundquist, Prucha and Tyutin who are regulars.

      The organization has produced a genuine cup contender without stripping the cupboard bare. Anyone who can’t see that is only happy being miserable.

    22. Calm down people, if someone would’ve told you on July 1st that Dubinsky and Staal would make the team, you would have been praising Renney. 2 rookies to start the season is enough, let Sather make some trades then bring up Dawes halfway through if the other rookies have adapted well by then.

    23. Seamus O Riley on

      Is Malik still on the squad? Hossa?

      These are TWO holes that are completely unnecessary! We have the players to take away these positions!! C’mon, already! Why sabatoge our chance for a great, great season?

    24. Seamus O Riley on

      anthony October 1st, 2007 at 2:35 pm
      Dawes didn’t have a spot on the team and will be brought up the moment someone is hurt. People are stupid. They complain about how the organization plays favorites, but yet they complain when their favorites get send down. DAWES HAS NO SPOT ON THIS TEAM. Plain and simple. Dubinsky has a spot on the team because 3rd line center was a bigger hole than top 6 winger. Especially since there is no hole in the top 6 winger spot. Who do you want Dawes to replace? Straka? Shanny? Jagr? Prucha? Callahan? Avery?

      Humility not being anthony’s greatest asset, he did, indeed, forget that Dawes outplayed Hossa easily. He need not replace Straka, Shanny, Jagr, Prucha, Callahan and Avery. You missed one name, Anthony. People are stupid, you say.

      are you “People”, or is it just the rest of us?

    25. Everyone on here just needs to relax about Nigel Dawes. The season is not a day old and what the Rangers are doing is leveraging their assets and buying themselves more time to make a decision. This is a kid who they brought in to the lineup in Game 6 if the Semi-Finals last Spring so they obviously believe in him. Dubinsky made it over Dawes because he plays a position the Rangers are not as deep in. They need him as a 3rd line center or it would throw the rest of the lines out of wack. And leaving Staal up on the team gives him a taste of the NHL and the Rangers the opportunity to evaluate what D-Man to trade or waive as the season goes on.

      Demoting anyone else would have cost the team to lose that player and there is nothing to say Glenn Sather isn’t working the phones to trade Marcel Hossa right now so that can call Dawes back up and onto this team.

    26. “I am saying under all those bandages there is no cut”

      Ok well just to clear this up..theyre are no bandages..he has stitches and Ive seen it up close and in person.

    27. I hope Dubinsky making third line center doesn’t puch Prucha or Callahan to the fourth line. Otherwise, again, I’d be pissed. I still hope for Prucha to play with Jagr, which would give two rookies in Callahan and Dubinsky a strong veteran in Straka to play with them rather than a questionable defensive third-year player in Prucha. A Prucha – Dubi – Cally line would be a disaster on defense, especially if Mara is out there with them.

      I am interested to see who will play with Staal – probably Mara.

    28. “Strudwick and Valiquette should have been cut if Renney had any brains.”

      These two can rot on the bench and it won’t effect the development and the future of the Rangers. Valli will play 10 games.

      Who is Strudwick blocking by sitting in the press box for 500K?

      Your logic is flawed.

    29. Pierre – there are actually three rookeis on the roster with Callahan included.

      Seamus – In effect, Dubinsky is (hopefully) replacing Hossa in the top nine forwards.

    30. It may not be fair to Dawes but it was the right decision. Dawes is a top six winger and his competition is Straka, Jagr, Shanahan, Avery, Prucha, and Callahan. There really is no room.

      What’s interesting though is that half of the Rangers D are either NYR draft picks or Hartford products (Tyutin, Girardi, Staal, and Pock) and both goalies are either NYR draft picks or Hartford products (Lundquist and Valiquette). Add the four Ranger forwards (Prucha, Dubinsky, Callahan, and Hollweg), 10 out of 23 players are products of the NYR system.

      That’s pretty good.

    31. Here is another caveat:

      As someone who has played on a team that carried extra players (college and pro), the guys who sit can have a major influence on the overall morale of the club. IF a guy is sitting and he feels he should be playing, he can be a dangerous cancer. People who dismiss Valliquette and Strudwick’s intangibles in this regard are definitely thinking Fantasy Hockey and not real hockey. There was an argument about whether someone who plays hockey can know as much as someone who hasn’t played. As far as the game goes, I don’t think it matters. But for the intangibles and understanding how a team psyche works, I think it helps to have played.

    32. ELENA

      Did Hank have competition with Vally at the end of last season when he Goaltended for his friggin life. NYR just couldnt carry Monty, he’s gonna have to be patient just like Dawes. Like i said before i much rather have Hossa on the 4th line then Dawes.

      MIKE

      What the hell is that supposed to mean, Tyutin, Hank, Prucha, Dubi, Staal, Cally, Girardi all won there spots. What part of “THERE ARE NO SPOTS LEFT” do you not understand. If NYR cant bring up Monty because his cap, then its not there fault. Every team in the league has a starter and a shitty backup its not like were the only team. I honestly cant see how NYR fans are complaining. If Staal, and Dubi make the team which i think they will, that means NYR from 05 – 06 to now, have put 7 rookies in the lineup, also if you want to count Hollweg, but eh he’s not worth bragging about. I am not complaining at all.

      Lets go through where Dawes might have played…

      Straka – Gomez – Jagr (no room for Dawes)
      Avery – Drury – Shanahan (no room for Dawes)
      Prucha – Dubinsky – Callahan (no room for Dawes, and Dubi played on the 3rd and 4th line in pre season and got 1 goal and 2 assists while Dawes played with 600 goal scoring hall of famers and couldnt do much, except for notch 3 assists against basically the NYI farm team.

      Hoss – Betts – Orrweg (like i said, i rather have Hossa who can play a good defensive game, on a checking / energy line then have Dawes who will do nothing like last season. Betts cant center him.

      So he will have to wait for an injury. But he will be playing next year. So who f’n cares, this team got youth injected up the yin yang what is there to complain about?…seriously

    33. Puck, are you serious about Valiquette’s career numbers? He has played a total of 12 NHL games throughout his career and his numbers aren’t great. Had he played in preseason and I actually saw something good from him, I might have other opinions. However, his performance last year and his career numbers do not force me to have faith in him. Assuming that he is going to start around 12-14 games this season, he needs to be strong enough to put us in a position to win. He will likely play around 16-18 (guessing in case Hank has a bad night). However,in my opinion he needs to be strong and keep us in the position to win during those 12-14 games so Hank can get a night off.

      Furthermore as it was stated somewhere before, if Lundqvist goes down, Montoya will be called up to start and Valiquette will continue being our back up. That says something alone.

      Although Montoya will succeed in Hartford, I think it would have been beneficial having some healthy competition between Montoya and Lundqvist. Isn’t that one of the reasons we had Valiquette to start off with in Hartford last year- to push Montoya to the next level? Now Montoya won’t have anyone to push him in Hartford and Lundqvist won’t have anyone to push him to be the best goalie for us.

    34. “Valliqette will lose those games and Lundqvist will totally fold under pressure of no real backup and no rest.”

      What makes you think Vally will lose every start? He only won the only start hes had last year. And is 4-3 in his career. And just to clairfy some more..all 4 wins came when he started the game. Thats pretty good.

    35. “For Montoya’s development 15 games in NHL is a lot more than 60 games in AHL. Also don’t forget practicing every day with NHL players.”

      Is this new math? How do you figure? I play goalie and I’ve coached goalies for 25 years. You get better by game experience. Practice helps, but it isn’t the same thing. A professional goalie might even agree with you but more than likely it is his bank talking and not his heart.

    36. Elena – See heres where you’re not understanding. We arent looking for an Allstar Backup. Vally’s number through 12 games 4-3 2.72 GAA, .917 Save% is very good for a back up. Check out the numbers from most backups in NHL. They are in that same exact range. Adn every other league Vally has played he has been exceptional. Further more..is montoya was meant to start every game over Vally in NHL if Lundy got hurt..why wasnt montoya starting every game over Vally in AHL then? Hmmm

    37. Were the only reasonable cuts to make at this time and truly shows how deep and talented this organization is..Yeah, it’s a shame that Dawes is not in NY becasue his play merits byt, unfortuantely, there are other things to consider and I personally like the other 6 wingers on the top 3 lines better to start the season..But Dawes will be up soon enough if he keeps the right attitude, which a 22 year old kid shoould…

      And, of all the players, Hossa did the least camp to earn a job but Renney loves his “potential”..Still it wasn’t a Dawes vs Hossa thing, It was a Dawes vs Prucha/Cally for time on the top 3 lines….

      Hossa is a 4th liner black ace right now (I think he should sit totally at the start) while Dawes will get 20 mins a night in Hartford–a hrd pill to swallow but better for his development…..

      The first injury to a wing on the top 3 lines, Dawes should get the call..

    38. I will grant that Montoya’s being on the team would push Henrik. If not by the end of this year, then next year that would be great.

      (You see, in an intelligent discussion, there can be give an take. And I don’t have to resort to attacking the size of someone’s brain.)

    39. Seamus O Riley on

      Spiderpig October 1st, 2007 at 2:47 pm
      I beleive Sather is working to make a package trade of Mara and Hossa. That way, Montoya could play if needed or wanted.>>

      Spiderpig,

      I would love to believe that! I appreciate your optimism! I forgot about Mara….to me, that is hole #3 in otherwise is a really solid lineup. I don’t think Mara can even be compared to Malik, but it would be nice to see his high salary and poor defensive play packaged and gone. (Hossa as well).

      good post.

    40. Seamus O Riley on

      It’s comical when someone posts, “everyone here needs to shut up” or “everyone needs to just calm down”…

      What if we don’t want to shut up? What if we WANT to discuss line ups? This is the best line up (on paper) that we have had in soooo many years! I LOVE talking line up changes! I love being excited. I don’t want to calm down.

    41. Good decisions by management. Dubinsky deserves to be here over Dawes though Dawes deserves it over Hossa. Not sure where a lot of these people are getting the “Dawes will be called up after a few games” idea but it’s Rangerland, i.e., Fantasyland.

    42. “Is this new math? How do you figure? I play goalie and I’ve coached goalies for 25 years. You get better by game experience. Practice helps, but it isn’t the same thing. A professional goalie might even agree with you but more than likely it is his bank talking and not his heart.”

      almost every good goalie has started as a backup, including Richter, Ludqvist. That is how you develop young goalies in NHL.

    43. Seamus

      I agree, its nice to have something to talk about other then yenners basic Shanny and jagr suck BS.

      But everyone is taking this to a whole new level, everyone just needs to realize that we dont have room for Dawes, and next year NYR will most likely lose Shanny to retirment, and possibly Straka, and maybe Avery wont re sign, and Hossa might be dumped as well. So Dawes will get his shot soon enough, but he needs to earn it, if someone goes down with injury, he needs to play those games and do great. Then he needs to have his best camp of his career. Then we’ll see what happens.

    44. SAM ‘That the concern about not having a spot for Dawes on the first three lines was legitimate. On talent, or merit, alone, Dawes is one of the 12 best forwards in the Rangers organization. But Renney must have concluded he’s not the type of player you stash on the fourth line, or worse, bench for games on end. Hence, he will begin the season in Hartford.”… THAT’S HALF ABSURD, kids hear & fans say you ice your best players, so If he’s in the top 12 . Which is it best or not your best ?

    45. “because I watched him play and he makes Joson Muzzatti look like Brodeur”

      When did you watch him? In the Blues game that he won for us? Hmm..he played horrible with those 25 saves, and .92 Save % and under 2.0 GAA.No goals in OT,and making a game winning shootout save in his first ever appearance in MSG virtually saving the season. Horrible..and to hold those 2 spot shots in the other games against him when even our Vezina Goalie was being blitzed with goals would be unfair.

    46. Elena – You don’t need to have faith in Valliquette. He won’t play much more than 10 games, save for a few more if Lundqvist gets shelled. I predict Hank will be in net for at least 70 games, maybe 75.

      Robby Bonfire – Let’s spell this out: The Rangers have the best collection of youth, experience, size and stars they’ve had in decades EVEN CONSIDERING 1993-94 and Sather is screwing it up? People have this team picked as the beast in the east and you think this is bad? They’ve got more depth than just about every team in thier division and have no less than four prolific offensive forwards. And if any of their key players go down(Straka, Shananhan, Prucha etc.), they’ve got not one, but two bodies to replace them(Dawes, Anisimov), not including the augmented roles Dubinsky and Callahan would undoubtedlty make.

      Yenner: You’re truly a freak, dude. “I am saying under all those bandages there is no cut.” My god. next thing you’re going to say is that Sather called aliens to abduct Montoya in the Bermuda Triangle and is presently plotting with U.S. Robitics to create an Evil Montoya that will suddenly play real bad in Hartford, thus justifying the move. Valliquette is with the team because he can sit for 30 games in a row without ‘stunting’ his growth. Keeping Montoya for 15 games would be the equivelent of keeping Dawes for 5 minutes a game on fourth line…

      …Which…I will conclude by saying, sorry Dawes. You played good, but this is the NHL. Keep your chin up and you’ll be in the show sooner than later. I mean for christ sakes people, this guy is 22 years old. he’s got another 15 years to skate in the league. 20 or 30 more games in the AHL ain’t going to hurt the guy.

    47. Its dumb to bring up convos about the 08 – 09 season, what if Shanny and Straks do retire, it would be sweet if NYR brings up Dawes obviously, and also signs Rolston, i dont know how you all feel about him, but he’s one of my fav US players, right next to Drury and Modano. It would be nice to see him on the team, not that it matters now, but i just want to see what everyone thinks about him…Except Robby, and Yenner.

      He embarrassed Broduer in the all star game with those back to back goals in the same spot firing it through the 5 hole.

    48. “I am saying under all those bandages there is no cut”

      How do you go through life with such paranoia? It must be really hard.

    49. “Here is another caveat:

      As someone who has played on a team that carried extra players (college and pro), the guys who sit can have a major influence on the overall morale of the club. IF a guy is sitting and he feels he should be playing, he can be a dangerous cancer. People who dismiss Valliquette and Strudwick’s intangibles in this regard are definitely thinking Fantasy Hockey and not real hockey. There was an argument about whether someone who plays hockey can know as much as someone who hasn’t played. As far as the game goes, I don’t think it matters. But for the intangibles and understanding how a team psyche works, I think it helps to have played.”

      So why not put 2 humble homeless dudes in their spots?

      In NHL you need to have a good backup goalie. And why we need Strudwick at all when we can just go with 22 man roster? Because Renney intends to play him for far more games than we all dare to imagine.

    50. I do agree with you Mark about having a healthy discussion. Some great goalies don’t have to have great back ups. For example, Marty Brodeur hasn’t had a great back up in years. I guess my frustration is that Montoya and Dawes showed they deserve jobs. In Dawes’ case 2 years in a row. I just don’t think that is fair. However, he probably will be the first call up and might be here to stay by the end of the year.

      I just want to see more out of Valiquette and wish he would have had a chance to show everyone that he deserved a spot on this team. I think fans will be critical of this decision. If Valiquette starts one game and plays really well, my opinion might change. I just need to see more out of him.

    51. You have to think that the rangers are going to let the season play out and during the season the rangers will make trades to
      strengthen the defense and in doing so free up a spot for the younger players who should be up playing which would help the cap.

    52. Seamus O Riley on

      Hospo is right about Hossa. At age 26, having played with some of the best players in the world, Tom Renney is STILL talking about Hossa like he is a 19 year old kid….

      really, we know how he plays.

      In this order, Dump:

      1. Malik No question. Did you see that kid tell Al Hairwig?? THAT was funny.
      2. Hossa. No real trade value
      3. Mara $ issue, poor defense

      I do find value in Betts’ hard work.

    53. “So why not put 2 humble homeless dudes in their spots?

      In NHL you need to have a good backup goalie. And why we need Strudwick at all when we can just go with 22 man roster? Because Renney intends to play him for far more games than we all dare to imagine.”

      Is it possible that the Rangers organization knows just a little more than you do about hockey..and that maybe Vally and Struds are good hockey players who are capable of handling their roles? While at the same time are good teamates?

    54. ELENA

      Dawes made the team in 06 – 07, he just didnt prove he can stay in the NHL, and he played with Ward, and Betts, or some 4th liners like them. Which is the exact same case now. If he gets called up he’ll be playing with Betts and Hossa, which means it will most likely be the same exact thing that happened last year…We had a 3rd line center spot open for Dubi, or a 4th line wing spot for Dawes….which one would you rather want?

    55. I disagree about Mara. I think he is just above average as a d-man. He has a cannon too (just has to work on his accuracy!)

    56. First off, I for one cannot wait to watch 82+ games of Marc Staal and Brandon Dubinsky. I only watched portions of the preseason games (I actually had better things to do) but from what I saw of these two, they should be in the NHL. Staal displayed poise and the ability to move the puck out of his own zone. In essence, he looked like a less goofy and mistake prone version of our favorite whipping boy, Malik. He definately needs to add some muscle, but he has the skills to play now. Hopefully his situation will play out where half way through the season, Mara and Pock are discarded and he ends up playing with Sauer or even Roszival. He will make his mistakes but he will also make some incredible plays.

      It was very cool too to see Girardi on the Power Play and I do think that playing him with Tyutin will be a great pair. I noticed in the second Islander game several beautiful up-ice rushes from Fedor which led to nice scoring chances. I think this is a result of his confidence and comfort with Danny G.

      I am excited to see our kiddy line of Prucha, Dubie and Callahan. It will be a great forechecking line, with lots of speed. The most important aspect of this line will be their defensive responsibility. If they show the coaching staff they are a 3 zone line, they will get plenty of ice time.

      Finally, it is better for the team to have Montoya at Hartford, whether some people believe so or not. Look, the King is a similar type of goalie to Brodeur in that the more he plays the better he plays. His backup will get no more than 12 games a year and why waste Montoya on the bench when he too can play upwards of 50-60 games in the ahl. I believe Al only played about 40 or so games last year and he needs to show that he can be a dominating goaltender across a longer stretch of time. I do believe though at this stage, he could play for another team that was not contending for a cup. If he was our starter right now, it would be akin to the Penguins starting Fleury, except that Montoya I believe is a bit more consistent but not as flashy.

      I for one cannot wait til Thursday nite, although I do wish the Yankees game was not gonna be the same nite…Guess Ill be flipping back and forth constantly.
      -Ian

    57. Oh, one more thing….Watching the games, I was so used to having just one scoring line to watch from last year, that I constantly forgot that we had Drury too. I dont think we really get how deep our roster truly is. Its kinda scary….

    58. Elena- I think it’s a financial decision regarding Montoya more than anything.

      Yenner- I don’t think Strudwick is that bad. He sticks up for his teammates and he can fight of needed. He can play forward as well if there was an in game injury. Would I have been happy if he hadn’t resigned? Yes. But he’s here and he can serve a purpose. It was annoying having Dawes and Pock sit for long stretches last year. All teams will carry extra players and Strudwick might play once in a while, but he won’t cause a problem or develop resentment over not playing.

    59. I think the reasoning behind sending Dawes and Montoya down is to give them ample opportunity to continue to build their game. If either was starting with the Rangers their time would be completely limited. But, I do believe that Dawes will be the first call up if the second line or, hell, first lining isn’t producing as they should. I think it’s a pretty intelligent move. The team doesn’t want to lose Pock on waivers. I don’t give it long for Dawes to be up and I think if Val doesn’t show the good when Hank needs a rest, Monty will be pulled up. But for a goalie, it’s so integral for practice to make perfect.

    60. Seamus O Riley on

      Mark wrote:

      Colorado Mark October 1st, 2007 at 2:54 pm
      “For Montoya’s development 15 games in NHL is a lot more than 60 games in AHL. Also don’t forget practicing every day with NHL players.�
      Is this new math? How do you figure? I play goalie and I’ve coached goalies for 25 years. You get better by game experience. Practice helps, but it isn’t the same thing. A professional goalie might even agree with you but more than likely it is his bank talking and not his heart.>>

      Mark, the math might be a stretch but I think that top level experience is just irreplacable. The game is SO much faster in the NHL than the AHL. I don’t know, really, who is right in this argument. I think that Montoya might be called up here and there, but carry the weight at the NHL level. I wonder, also, if he is trade bait??

      It is a good problem to have.

      In high school hockey, up here in the North Country, they often bring up a freshman to practice with Varsity. He goes back to JV and his game is really improved.

      I don’t know about trading only a FEW NHL games for an entire load of AHL games, but I also see the value in letting him see the pace and the shot speed, accuracy, etc of the show.

      Imagine having Crosby come at you? The kid scores from his knees.

      Lundqvst got a HUGE education in the playoffs. I expect him, once he gets into the groove, to be even better this year.

      I do hope that he keeps away from the party life and stays focused. Avery worries me a abit.

      You can probably guess my age from this post. With your 25 years experience, you are no kid, either.

      thanks for a good post.

    61. Elena – blame Bettman and the cap. The Rangers can not afford Montoya as the backup to start the season. if they cut bait on Mara that could change things.

      As for the youth brigade – so instead of focusing on Staal, Dubinsky, Callahan and Girardi all making the team – you choose to focus on Dawes not making it to start the season. You choose to ignore the realities of 6 forwards on the top 3 lines being better than him (including 2 very young ones). That Dawes would be a waste and a problem on the 4th line where Hossa will play. Do you really think Dawes will put up points playing with either Orr or Hollweg on his line plus Betts. I see people post lines like its going out of style. I never see someone post 6 or 7 (in the event one of the 6 gets a penalty) forwards who the team should put on the pk. And that should consider who is playing on the pp as well as other game minutes.In other words a guy like Betts or prob even Hossa getting pk minutes is good for the offensive players to not have to play as many minutes. And if you think Dawes who is defensively very weak should be on the pk you are really out of your mind. And you choose to focus on guys like Strudwick who get a spot in the “top 23″ but will most likely sit in the press box the majority of the games. So don’t be happy that Dubinsky is 3rd center or Callahan in top 9 forwards. Be miserable that Hossa is on the 4th line and Dawes is in Hartford. Be miserable that Montoya is in Hartford because we can’t afford him. But don’t be happy that Staal and Girardi made the team.

      Colorado Mark – you make way too much sense to be posting. Especially when we have Einstein’s like Sybil here.

      aftrouskrieyrmnpkds – that makes as much sense as one of Sybil’s posts.

    62. Mark – I have to disagree with your reasoning with Montoya’s reassignment to hartford. I think finances were partially a factor but make no mistake..this team has some cap space and can create more if need be. I think the decision was playing time and development primarily. Plus I, Along with the Rangers organization feel Vally is capable of holding it down. So why waste cap space when you have a viable solution on the roster already for less salary and less need for development..makes sense to reassign Montoya completely

    63. I meant to ask this on an earlier thread: I have gathered the meaning of Black Ace to mean an older guy who can provide and emotional, coach-like boost to the team along with serving as a capable backup, but does anyone know the deravation of the term? I’m just interested.

      LI Joe – I think the PK forwards will be Betts, Drury, Shanahan, Straka, Hossa, and Avery. Maybe only Shanahan when another is in the penalty box.

    64. What part of “WE DON’T HAVE THE CAP ROOM” to play Montoya are you people having trouble with??? If he plays enough games to keep sharp and makes his incentives – I believe it cost us upwards of 1.6 mill on the cap NO??? I would love to see him as backup just as much as anybody. Just don’t think it’s in the numbers

    65. “Yenner- I don’t think Strudwick is that bad.”

      that doesn’t change the fact that he is bad.

      “He can play forward as well if there was an in game injury.”

      that makes zero sense

      “He sticks up for his teammates and he can fight of needed. ”

      he will not fight anyone with longer reach, he just hugs them

      “But he’s here and he can serve a purpose.”

      yes, to prevent Sauer or Baranka getting to play when there is more than one injury.

    66. Puck- That’s kind of what I meant. I do think if there were no cap implications, we would see Montoya on the roster.

      Seamus- I started coaching goalies at a summer hockey camp when I was 14. You can do the math! I think the Rangers will do a version of what the High School teams do in your area. Instead of calling up Montoya to practice, they will call him up when Lundy needs a break. Especially if Valli stumbles.

      LI Joe- It’s much easier to focus on the negative, so not surprisingly, many use this board as a way to vent. If Dawes made the team and was scratched for the first ten games people would be calling for Renney’s head even if we were 10-0!

    67. Would the ass clown with the Blog name of “Strudwick is better than nothing…..” just shut up already. You might be the stupidest person on this blog by a factor of about 10. You said, “Dawes at this point might be better than Straka.” That settles it. You are stupider than anyone else on this blog. Just shut up already.

      I will bet you any amount of money that Dawes’ lifetime achievments in the NHL will never surpass Straka’s. And I also guarantee you that if both were in the open market as trade bait, Straka would command at least 5x the value that Dawes would, even right now.

      I am guessing you are about 8 yrs old and have been to about 6 Ranger games in your life. And that you and your buttboy pal who send little blogs to each other probably sit at home and spank each other’s monkeys.

      Then you go on to say that Renney will use all his dirty tricks to make Dubinsky fail. Right, cuz Renney wants to see all his players fail.

      You are an imbecile.

    68. “And about Montoya, not only will he play at least 15 games and practice with the team every time, but also he will get to see the action from the best seat for 65 games and get tips from the coaching staff and be able to work with Allaire almost every practice.”

      Well I guess thats out now huh..

    69. *I am guessing you are about 8 yrs old and have been to about 6 Ranger games in your life. And that you and your buttboy pal who send little blogs to each other probably sit at home and spank each other’s monkeys.*

      Classless and classic! Beautiful. This sounds like Jim Rome ripping on O.J. or “2” (T.O.)

    70. Many of you guys are not thinking big picture. Stop thinking about just this year and think about the future of this organization. Dawes will be a Ranger for a long time to come and the Shannys and Strakas of this world will be gone. The hole was a 3rd line center. Dubinsky was CLEARLY the right choice. Why on earth would you screw with your entire lineup and their positions because one kid got a goal and 3 assist in his preseason stint. Remember Danny Goneau and his 10 game goal streak when they called him up? What happened to him? BIG PICTURE. He’ll be a Ranger. People need to think things out and not think that opening night is the only thing being played for. Jeeze!

    71. SpiderPig-

      Interesting question on the “Black Aces”. Originally, they were the first all black hockey line in the AHL, but the term that we use “Black Ace” for does indeed refer to your definition. I remember that Keenan and Mess used the term during 1994, but I didn’t know if it was just our team or if it was a hockey standard. (“Crash Line” used to bug me, because it was a Devils term!). But doing some research, it kind of helps add to the discussion about the merits of Msrs. Valliquette and Strudwick.

      ” Another unique social factor in the playoffs is the increased number of players on the team as NHL teams will have extra players up from their farm team and there could be as many as 30 players available to play. Since only 20 players dress for each game the extra players have to do extra on-ice and off-ice training to keep in shape and be ready to play in case of injuries. This group of reserve players develops an identity and they are referred to as the “Black Acesâ€? because they wear black jerseys in practice. As the legendary UCLA basketball coach John Wooden points out in his wonderful memoirs (Wooden & Jamieson, 1997), spending time with the reserve players and recognizing their efforts is one of the keys to any team’s playoff success as these players must have a positive influence on the team and be ready to contribute. The coaches that I have worked with have taken the time to build a positive attitude in the reserve group and the regular players also take time to mention the importance of the depth of their team when talking to the media. Spending time with these players is also an important role for the sport psychology consultant and I have thoroughly enjoyed chatting with these reserve players and helping them stay mentally and emotionally fit.”

      This is from “Athletic Insight”, the Online Journal of Sports Psychology

      http://www.athleticinsight.com/Vol6Iss2/ProfessionalHockeyPlayoffPerformance.htm

    72. So where’s the vote is Newman or whatever today’s name is make more hockey sense? I say Newman, but what’s his monica will say I’m Newman. The kid is a mud slinger…

    73. “Yenner- I don’t think Strudwick is that bad.�

      that doesn’t change the fact that he is bad.

      “He can play forward as well if there was an in game injury.�

      that makes zero sense

      “He sticks up for his teammates and he can fight of needed. �

      he will not fight anyone with longer reach, he just hugs them

      “But he’s here and he can serve a purpose.�

      yes, to prevent Sauer or Baranka getting to play when there is more than one injury.

    74. spiderpig – those are the likely choices for pk. Only concerned that Shanny and Drury’s minutes will be too much (since they’ll get pp time and their lines play alot and in Shanny’s case his age). I think Straka can handle it (pp and pk). I definitely don’t see Hollweg, Orr, JJ or Prucha doing pk. That would leave Gomez, Cally and Dubinsky as other possibilities. Also don’t see Dawes as pk when he’s up. From seeing Drury a bit in preseason I see him trying to block shots on the pk and that could lead to a problem with his concussions or some other injury. I’d like to see Cally given a shot at pk instead of either Shanny or Drury to balance the minutes better.

    75. Strudwick is Bla bla bla – you have the points of view of someone who was homeschooled by a Trailer Hick. Everything you say, you say as if its a fact and not opinion.

    76. Thanks, Colorado Mark. I was thinking that the “Aces” part of the term might be a poker reference to an “ace in the hole,” since the “Black” part of the term is accounted for in your research, as being the jerseys. Or, ace could just mean a good player, but he happens to be a backup.

    77. Yenner- If you have Strudwick in the lineup as a forward and a D-man is hurt, he can fall back and play D so you can double shift Jagr. If he’s dressed as a D-man and we lose a forward, he can spot shift at forward. I don’t see how that makes any sense. Notice I;m able to refrain from calling you names while making my point. Try it sometime.

      Hmm, so when does Strudwick decide if the guy has longer arms? I don’t remember that info being in any of the media guides. So you think he goes around with one of those Tailor measuring tapes and checks the guys arm lengths in warmups? C’mon, I know you don’t like the guy, but I’ve never seen him back down from a fight. I think one game this preseason he did that, but if you are off balance or fighting a lefty, you need to hold on until you have an opening. Sometimes it doesn’t come.

      Sauer will be here eventually, let him play a few gamesin the AHL. Baranka I don’t know about, but I think he has been leapfrogged by enough guys. AHL success can help players get to the next level. If you take away all the young D-men from Hartford to sit on the bench in New York, we aren’t developing any young D-men (like Girardi, who started int he ECHL, and Busto is doing the same this year.)

    78. Doodie Machetto on

      I’m late to this thread so I’m not going to read the 100 posts before me, most of which, I’m sre, are upset over Valliquette getting to stay over Montoya, and Hossa getting to stay over Dawes. My thoughts:

      1) No question that Montoya outplayed all Rangers backups, and even Lundy, in camp. Hank had a slow start last year also, so just because he had a bad preseason doesn’t mean he should lose his starting job. End of story. As for Vally, I think Montoya is just a victim of the cap. As much as it sucks, paying a couple of million for 15 games just isn’t worth it. Better to have the flexibility later in the season.

      2) There was one non-fourth line spot available. They chose Dubinsky instead of Dawes. Fourth line time for Dawes is garbage. He definitely is not above any of the top 6 wings, and we saw how the effect that 4th line time had on him. Lousy, ineffective play in the NHL, and then a REALLY slow start in the AHL once he went back down. Granted, he regaine dhis form and then did really well, but it’s important to remember how negatively the fourth line tie affected his performance. Instead of burying him there again over Hossa or Horrweg, better that he get to focus on the fine details of his game in Hartford. Sucks for him, but the value choice that was made was that it was better to bring up Dubinsky than Dawes. Personally, I would like to have seen Dawes up and playing on the second line, with either Straka or Avery in the middle on the third line and dubi in Hartford, but at the same time, this isn’t a rotten alternative.

      Let’s just focus on the positive: Marc Staal is on the team. Brandon Dubinsky is on the team. Strudwick will barely play. And carrying Pock as well will make competition for playing time among the bottom pairing defensemen like Mara, and if he goes through a bad playing patch, Tyutin. I am acknolwedging that Roszi and Malik are untouchable, however wrong that may be, especially in Malik’s case.

      In 2003-04, the only time these guys would’ve played would have been when the whole team was sold away. So, I’d say two rookies on opening night is pretty good, by the standards of ANY team in the league. You show me one team that is seriously competing for the cup this season that is dressing more than two rookie skaters. I guarantee there are none.

    79. Yeah trade Straka because we don’t want to win the Cup this year. We’d rather wait til Dawes makes the lineup, if he ever does, and we don’t have any vets left like Shanny, Jags, Straka to get us there. Dawes will carry the team to the Cup. Sure.

      The point I was making (you smart, witty 10 yr old that you are) was that the team this year has a chance to win the Cup. 99% of the coaches in the league would try to win the Cup with Straka not Dawes in the lineup.

      Again, I did not say Dawes doesn’t have talent. I am just saying that Straka is the kind of guy who can win a Cup and he has proven it. Dawes has not even proven he can do anything but play in one zone of the ice.

      And Imagination, I have been New Newman on this blog since last year. I never changed it to anything else to try and hide myself because people started to say that I was talking like a dopey fool (like some other people).

    80. Prucha is the most over rated guy in hockey. He does one thing (score) and he doesnt even do that great. Its not like he scored 40 or 50 goals. He scored 22 goals last year. Big deal. He puts out 40 points a year because he never sets anyone up. 17 assists a year? Are you kidding me?
      Combining that with his bad defense and his total lack of of physicality and what do you have? He trys to hit guys and falls on his butt. Other guys hit him and he falls on his butt. He is a powder puff. If a guy drops his gloves to fight Prucha, lets hope Petr doesnt cry.

      The Rangers shouldnt have even invited many of the young guys to camp if they werent going to keep them no matter how they played.

      Montoya out played Valley and Lundy and what does he get for it?

      Dawes outplayed Hossa, Prucha and what does he get for it?

      These 2 guys will end up stars on other NHL rosters one day while we pick roster spots based on who is friends with who.

    81. Doodie Machetto on

      I think Anaheim might be doing that, but they also had two of their three best players retire on them.

    82. I dont understand why people feel bad for Montoya. He has not real future here. He wants to be a #1..Well h isnt going to be that in NY. Its like someone actually trying to unseat Luongo in Vancouver..not gonna happen. Montoya is getting whats best for him..and that his first full season in Hartford as a clear #1 guy..he didnt have that in his rookie season(injury) and not last season(Valiquette). So let him play well and go to a team that needs him. We dont.

    83. “If he’s dressed as a D-man and we lose a forward, he can spot shift at forward. I don’t see how that makes any sense.”

      contradiction 101. Notice I’m able to refrain from calling you names while making my point. (even though you are a moron) Try it sometime. Also shove off with your condescending remarks, and get back to coaching those toddlers.

    84. And Imagination, I have been New Newman on this blog since last year…. I knew that but genius accusesme of using your name, & states non-facts , & off the wall opinions with little to back it up, if anything. JUST TO COMPLAIN!…the kid has serious issues…

    85. Robby Bonfire on

      tdchi – YES, Sather is screwing it up. The most overlooked factor in all of professional sports is DEPLOYMENT OF PERSONNEL. All the focus seems to be upon trades and draft picks and FA signings, but in fact, how a team sets it’s roster, and the responsibility it gives the players on the roster is what separates champions from contenders, and contenders from also-rans, short-term and long term.

      You bet Sather is screwing it up everytime he dispatches a young player who is ready to step in right now and do a better job than a veteran just playing out the string.

      Screwing around with the Mara’s and Strudwick’s of the world with better options in the system is just one example of many. Not trading Straka when Dawes is a beter option is another good example. It never ends with this gutless organization. This team has so many dead spots and so much age in key positions, just making the playoffs is the best expectation, until things change.

    86. “I dont understand why people feel bad for Montoya. He has not real future here. He wants to be a #1..Well h isnt going to be that in NY. Its like someone actually trying to unseat Luongo in Vancouver..not gonna happen. Montoya is getting whats best for him..and that his first full season in Hartford as a clear #1 guy..he didnt have that in his rookie season(injury) and not last season(Valiquette). So let him play well and go to a team that needs him. We dont.”

      some examples: Jim Carey, Jose Theodore, Byron Dafoe, Khabibulin, Kiprusoff, Raycroft, etc.

    87. “imagination
      October 1st, 2007 at 4:40 pm
      And Imagination, I have been New Newman on this blog since last year…. I knew that but genius accusesme of using your name, & states non-facts , & off the wall opinions with little to back it up, if anything. JUST TO COMPLAIN!…the kid has serious issues…”

      oopsie huh? got mixed up using all those names?

    88. tdchi – Are you serious man? Sather is doing what he has been doing for the last few years with his young guys and its actually paying off better than most NHL teams right now. Dubinsky – played better than anyone in last years camp and he was kept down..and now look..hes our 3rd Line Center, and ready for it this time. Callahan was kept in Hartford last year and at the end of the year he showed how much he grew as a player. Sather is working the farm system better than most. He isnt screwing anything up in my book. Not every kid who plays a few good preseason games is garaunteed a spot.

    89. Doodie Machetto on

      mike: see my post on Montoya. I understand your rage, but I really think Montoya is a victim of the cap.

      As for Prucha: He averaged 13 minutes a night. He had the most goals for any player averaging that little time a night. I don’t remember the exact stat (I read it much earlier in the summer), but I think it was 8 more than the next guy. He should be getting more icetime, not less. He had 30 the year before, remember? Dawes has only 35 and 27 goals in the *A*HL, while Prucha has 30 and 22 at the *N*HL level. Just a thought.

    90. Bonfire you can’t seriously think that Dawes is better than Straka. not offensively, not defensively, not on the pp and not on the pk. Your pro kids mentality blinds you from the facts. This is not Krog or either Ward we’re talking about. So you’re not happy with 4 rookies on the team. Staal, Cally, Girardi and Dubinsky. None of those 4th liner will be 4th liners either. Maybe Dubinsky in the 3rd period of a lead will be replaced by Betts. And I’m waiting for all the complaining from you on that one. Besides by my calculations Dawes shelf life is only 2 more yrs based on your previous rants. To be replaced by an 18 yr old.

      And this just in – the world is not flat. I’m done educating you for today.

    91. Doodie Machetto on

      LI Joe: I think Callahan is, but I’m not sure on Girardi. I don’t know how many games you have to play for you to not be considered a technical rookie for purposes of the Calder Trophy.

    92. Doodie have you ever seen that thing called an assist column? Last time I looked players get points for scoring goals and setting them up. 17-18 assists over a full year for a finesse player is obscene. Prucha played lesser minutes because the coachs know he is a 1 dimensional shooter who rarely if ever sets anyone else up and because he doesnt play defense. Add that to his cupcake checking game and you have the reason he didnt play more and why he was flat out benched 1 game last year.

      Also did you watch the playoffs? 2nd year in a row Prucha disappeared completely come playoff time. Oh wait I’m sorry he did manage 1 point in 10 games.

    93. Doodie Machetto on

      To my montage of a name: I agree with you entirely. He deserved to make the club. He is by far the best choice we had in our system for backup. But to have both him and Staal would have pushed us really close to the cap ceiling. I’d rather have the space to make a move later in the season if, god forbid, Lundy goes down with a significant injury to get a veteran backup for Montoya (who I think would deserve the starting job).

    94. I take it those are lists of goalies who started as backups?? Well you might know that not one of those guys started under Vezina finalits under 25 years old and have been all but handed the #1 job for years to come. Why do you care about Montoya? He wont play here..i think this camp showed that,..he played great and still couldnt get a spot..the team has no intention to use him other than a trading chip.

    95. “I take it those are lists of goalies who started as backups?? Well you might know that not one of those guys started under Vezina finalits under 25 years old and have been all but handed the #1 job for years to come. Why do you care about Montoya? He wont play here..i think this camp showed that,..he played great and still couldnt get a spot..the team has no intention to use him other than a trading chip.”

      no fool, it was an example that goalies can go from hero to zero vice versa very quickly. And Lundqvist could go bust any time, especially if he crumbles under the pressure.

    96. What will you all say when Hossa gets placed right back on the first line with Jagr?

      Don’t you see that is Renney’s aim, and it’s why Dawes was sent to Hartford?

      That’s why so many see Dawes vs. Hossa as the real problem. If Hossa plays only on 4th line, I won’t have a problem with it.

      But if he spends even one shift on 1st line, it will prove Renney has an agenda – because Dawes would be much better in that slot than Hossa.

      Our best forward lineup:
      Prucha/Drury/Jagr
      Dawes/Gomez/Shanahan
      Avery/Dubinsky/Callahan
      Hossa/Betts/(Orr or Hollweg)

      Renney’s watered-down lineup:
      Hossa/Drury/Jagr
      Shanahan/Gomez/Avery
      Prucha/Straka/Callahan
      Hollweg/Betts/Orr

      Dubinsky and Staal will have a couple of games at most before Renney comes up with an excuse to send them to Hartford. Net result: NO new forwards, NO new kids.

    97. Doodie Machetto on

      Baron: I agree that the decision was Dawes or Hossa. I also don’t think Hossa should start any games in the 1st line. But, in the midde of the game, our first line isn’t getting anything going, and we need to switch things up he plays Hossa up top in Straka’s spot for one or two shifts, just to give a different look and a rest to Straka, I wouldn’t mind.

      mike, you are contradicting yourself by wanting a kid on the team so badly, but then saying Prucha has had 52 goals in his first 2 NHL seasons, but that’s not good enough, cut him. 30 out of 30 teams would take Prucha over Dawes. And I did see the playoffs. I especially saw Dawes play the single worst game any Ranger had during the entire playoffs.

    98. OK. A little explaination would have done wonders with that list. But alright then..Basically your point means nothing. Your basing this on “What If” and after 2 straight years of being a Vezina finalist..the word “Bust” or “Crumble” becomes almost irrelevant. Sure injuries can happen that may derail his season/career..but so could Luongo and then what? How about if Kiprusof went down? My point is..Montoya is a great prospect to have..but looking at the CURRENT situation..he has no use.

    99. Doodie Machetto on

      Oh an mike, who was Prucha going to set up? He got most of assists during his short stint on the 2nd line with shanahan, but then after being removed from there, let’s look at the list of “goalscorers” he had the chance to work with:

      Cullen, Ortmeyer, Hall, Krog, Betts, Orr, Hollweg, Ward.

      Yup, he definitely sucks to only have 17 helpers when he played most of the season withthose dregs.

    100. Doodie Machetto on

      One small strategy note that merits note: Waiting to place Hutch on waivers was a good decision. There is less of a chance of him getting picked up today now that every team has made their cuts. Teams can see what defensemen are available instead of worrying that Hutch might be the best one that would become available. There are definitely a few that are above him in quality and price.

    101. OK Doodie if you say so. Sounds like you are a Cupcake apologist and he has every excuse in the book. What about the previous year when he had around 17 assists playing with Jagr and many other great players? What about before he became a Ranger in the Czeck Republic and still put up way low asists numbers?

      jagr
      straka
      gomez
      drury
      avery
      dubinsky
      callaghan
      shannahan

      All have a better impact on the ice than Cupcake. You can be sure Dawes would have more than 17 assists in a full season

    102. “Dubinsky and Staal will have a couple of games at most before Renney comes up with an excuse to send them to Hartford. Net result: NO new forwards, NO new kids.”

      Talented Mr. Hyena always finds ways to sabotage young players. He hasn’t stopped sabotaging Prucha from day 1. Immonen, Dubinsky, Wiseman, Lampman, Liffiton, Baranka, Moore, Bourret, Dawes, Kondratiev, Montoya, etc.

    103. “Talented Mr. Hyena always finds ways to sabotage young players. He hasn’t stopped sabotaging Prucha from day 1. Immonen, Dubinsky, Wiseman, Lampman, Liffiton, Baranka, Moore, Bourret, Dawes, Kondratiev, Montoya, etc.”

      Dude are actually a Ranger fan..seems like you cant stand the owner,cant stand the coach,or any current players. The only players you like are the ones who dont make the team.

    104. Doodie the problem is if they try to bring Hutch back and he’s claimed there goes 1/2 his salary vs our cap for nothing. I’d rather he be claimed now – no cost to us.

    105. MIKE

      Wow, you are a complete whiner. Dawes had his chance, and he did nothing. Prucha is on this team, and teams would love to have prucha’s 25 – 30 goals and 17 assists.

      he has POTENTIAL. He hasnt had a real playmaker in his last 2 seasons and he still managed to get 52 goals, Cullen and Rucchin SUCK.

      Dawes verse Prucha….id go with Prucha. Lol Cupcake, what would that make Dawes, a munchkin??

      We have whiners like Robby and Yenner, and here we go again.

      Thank friggin god Dawes is back in hartford, we have a whole lot of youth who should get a shot, and Dubi is one of them and he earned that spot. Now lets see what he can do, and if he can hold it.

      but to say Dawes deserves a spot over Prucha makes you sound like a complete moron, at least say he deserves a shot over Hossa, then some can take you seriously.

    106. Doodie Machetto on

      LI Joe: the point is, we’re not going to try and bring him back, barring some massive string of injuries to our defense. And if we get to the point where we need Hutch, that amount of cap space will be the least of our concern. I’d rather have a vet in hartford.

    107. Doddie News flash. Matt Cullen an all around player who plays defense, throws the body, kills penalties and doesnt get knocked on his butt like Cupcake actually had more points than Prucha. He also scored 4 times as man points as Prucha in last years playoffs when the game gets more physical and cupcake does his annual disappearing act.

      As far as Dawes goes he is short not small. Dawes weighs more than cupcake and is 10 times as tough.

    108. “The Rangers shouldnt have even invited many of the young guys to camp if they werent going to keep them no matter how they played.”

      Mike – Guys come to camp so that the big club can gauge their progress. The Rangers’ staff is certainly on the same page as Hartford, but Pearn Pelino, Renney et all don’t have time to see these guys practice day-to-day in Connecticut. In the case of Dawes, Montoya, Anisimov and others, getting sent down this year has little to do with thier readiness. It has to do them getting beat by more refined players that FIT with the club. Sure Montoya played well, but his contract won’t fit under the cap and he’s too valuable to rot on the bench. As for Dawes, he had a great camp and will be back. I wouldn’t however say he outplayed either Prucha or Hossa. Even if he did, the only guy he’d replace is Prucha (he doesn’t have Hossa’s size or checking ability) how many fans out there are up for ditching Prucha? Raise your hands…I’m not counting many.

      Robby: “You bet Sather is screwing it up everytime he dispatches a young player who is ready to step in right now and do a better job than a veteran just playing out the string.”

      And what makes you think they can do a better job? Was it Straka’s miserable season last year? Or was it how Dawes “wow’ed” ’em in his first stint? Vets have a proven track record, kids do not.

    109. Doodie Machetto on

      mike, I had a big post but it didn’t go through for some reason. I’ll highlight the main points:

      1) goals are much more valuable than assists.
      2) Ryan Smyth had a 36 goal, 20 assist campaign last season. Yup, he’s not worth anything because he could only manage 20 helpers.
      3) Before last season, Avery’s career highs were 15g and 24a. that’s less points than both of Prucha’s first two seasons. Prucha is only going to go up if given a chance.

    110. Any fan that would Dawes over Prucha has to be insane. What a bunch of whiners there are today, come back in a fuggin year, then maybe Dawes will get his shot, again.

      Mike must be Nigel, bitching about how he got sent down.

      Who friggin cares about Dawes, if he gets traded i wont give a flying fugg. Package him with Malik and someone else and send them down to the Yotes for all i care. All i wanted was Staal to make the team, and now that Dubi is making the team, that just makes it much more sweeter.

      Ha…Dawes better then Prucha…Lol prove it

    111. Doodie Machetto on

      The wingers will get their chance when Jagr, Straka, and Shanahan are all retired in two years. Shanahan will likely retire this year, and Jagr and Straka are both 50/50. That creates space for Bourret, Cherepanov, and Korpikoski. Byers and Moore can replace Hollweg and Orr in a year or two, and can slide up to fill in third line roles if other players aren’t retained (like Avery). Pyatt replaces Blair Betts, and possibly Dubinsky depending on how he develops. Anisimov probably doesn’t get a roster spot. Unfortunate, but you can’t find a spot for EVERY player that comes through the farm system. Otherwise your team would never have anyone over the age of 25, and your farm system would be hard to keep stocked.

      Dupont and Hillier are at least a few years away.

      Moore isn’t even that good by the way, so I don’t mind seeing him never make the team, unless it’s as a fourth liner.

    112. LOL comparing Ryan Smith to Petr Prucha is like comparing Petr Prucha to Cam Neely.

      What do they have in common?

      Goals are not more important than asists by the way. You have to be able to set your teammates up as well. If not you are just a puck hog that brings nothing else to the table.

      Did Gretzky just score? Does crosby just score? No they are great because they produce goals by setting others up as well.

      You dont seem to get that Prucha is one dimimensional. He does one thing on the ice and 22 goals are nothing to brag about? What is that like 100th in the nhl or something?

    113. Wow the negativity!!! Here’s a thought… we all know what the squad looks like now. It looks pretty damn good IMO. Staal made the team! Dubi made it too!!! I think we’ve got a hell of a team and I’m excited. Good blend of vets and youth, depth, speed, grit, leadership. Unreal. This team is ready to win. If anyone falters… there’s someone waiting right there for a shot.

      P.S. Montoya has a big problem… Hank’s in his way. I doubt he thought he really had a chance to make this team. The cap took care of that before he even laced them up. Montoya will be traded before the play-offs in a package to get a defenseman.

    114. Rangerbillyank on

      I would just like to say I agree with colorado mark, orr…., and puck…..and I don’t drink Kool-aid, just a rational hockey fan who has played into Jr A’s and doesn’t have to argue like a five-year old. Last I checked we weren’t re-building and don’t need our far team up here Talented. Every cup winning team has a healthy mix of veterans and young players. I believe we have that, hopefully we can develop the chemistry needed to be successful.

    115. MIKE

      Prucha is a GOAL SCORERRRRRRR he needs a set up man. He is not a playmaker at all, man please stop posting about this.

      What DOODIE meant was, some people like Smyth are JUST goal scorers, he’s not comparing the two players, all he is saying is that they are known for scoring, not making that beautful cross ice pass, and blah blah blah.

      The only reason Dawes isnt in the NHL, is because he didnt prove he can play at this level. The reason Prucha is here, is cause he has already proved he can. Dont attack Prucha just cause mighty midget didnt make the team, he is gonna have to wait till next year, and you are gonna have to get off this subject cause your not really convincing anyone, or at least not me.

    116. Prucha = Cupcake that disappears anytime there is contact.

      1 point in 10 playoff games last season when the team needed him most.

      Give me guys like Shanny, Avery, Calley, etc that play all around games and dont need one excuse after another.

    117. Dawes is a piss-poor defensive forward, as he proved in the playoff game vs. Sabres last year. He is one dimensional, an opportunist type sniper, but is a detriment in the defensive zone and is not tough or strong along the boards.

      He cannot play on a checking line or a 4th line because of his limitations, so his value is limited to the top 2 lines. and you don’t want him over guys who can play both ends and have already proved it in the NHL.

      I hope he is traded later on for playoff depth.

    118. If it wasnt for Jagr,
      Cupcake wouldnt even be on the team. Sather likes guys that can stand up for themselves not run away from fights and knocked on their butts all the time.

      Anyway the good news is the Rangers have 24 real players and one cupcake

    119. GLB

      Exactly

      If we do play him, then he’s playing on a 4th line that is checking / energy line. He will be on the ice with guys like Janssen, Lacrackhead, Brashear. He doesnt have a physical game, and he doesnt have a defensive game, and were not gonna dump Prucha just because little Dawesey can only play with scorers. please get out of here.

    120. MIKE

      Once again…your an idiot

      Who jumped on Colin White’s back like a monkey on crack after the Avery thing, it was Pruchs…He also gets into scrums, and he has a hear of gold and balls of steel and always gets up after getting hit hard.

      Jeez, are you Yenners brother, or Robby’s second cousin?

    121. Robby Bonfire on

      “Vets have a proven track record, kids do not.” OMG, how pathetic! You think like Sather. Vets, in fact, in too many cases, have too many BIRTHDAYS on their track record.

      Look, it’s not rocket science – when the rookie waiting in the wings is more talented, and ready to produce more now than the vet, you make the change. The Rangers have a glut of veterans they could replace right now, and IMPROVE THE TEAM, in the process. Struckwick over Sauer? You’re kidding me, except Strudwick has a “track record.” – a LOUSY track record.

      I would take Dawes NOW over Straka, but then I have guts and vision and most are tentative, scared of making a mistake, and myopic. I would even dump Mara for Sanguinetti, NOW. Sanguinetti cuts it or he doesn’t up here, but what if he is the next Greschner or Park who were dynamite in the big-time at 19? Tearing up the OHL right now, Sanguinetti is, too. He is so over-qualified to be playing with REAL kids, it is a joke. He is a man at 19, whether you can handle that, or not.

      At least if Staal gets quality minutes, not the 6-8 minutes Dawes got last year in his “trial,” that will be one thing I will be grateful for and relieved about.

      A “track record” of a level of play ranging from terrible to poor to mediocre (talking Strudwick, now), at best is not really a “track record,” so much as an indictment. And “experience” is not ABILITY, it is just experience. Ohhhhhh, this is going to be a long, difficult season suffering mis-deployment moves of personnel all over the place.

    122. Doodie Machetto on

      Robby, Straka still has a lot to contribute, on both sides of the puck. He was having the best year of his career last season before he got injured. For a month, he was by far the best and most consistent payer on the team. We’ll see how he does this year. If it’s not so good, I’ll be right behind you in calling for him to be replaced. as for now, he has shown no reason why he should be replaced.

      I’ll even agree for Sanguinetti and Mara, I would’ve liked them to keep Sang around for the 10 games we are allowed to see how he cut it before shipping him back to juniors.

      As for Sauer and Struds, there I don’t agree. It’s not because I think Struds is better or more deserving of the spot, because I don’t. It’s because I don’t mind sitting Strudwick for 10 games in a row and then playing 4 before sitting another 10. I would mind that a lot if it were Sauer.

    123. It would be amusing (if it weren’t so sad) to see guys go into full-on fecal hemorrage when their ‘pet’ kid gets sent down.

      It’s ragnarok, it’s armageddon, it’s dogs and cats living together…

      Dawes will be the first call up. He made the team out of camp last year and then didn’t play – THAT was worse for his development than getting sent down. Is it better to have a Dawes in HFD ready to be called up and immune to waivers than to try to throw the kid a bone and put him on the opening night roster and in the process lose a Hossa or a Pock on waivers for nothing and then have no one when a call up is needed? (Yes, I know there is a whole other list of ‘pet’ kids who are the next coming of [insert exemplary player here] that just need their chance… Faith-based roster mangement brooks no argument, N’est ce-pas?)

      Also, suggesting that a Straka or a Gomez is going to get or needs to get traded basically marks you as not being in the same time zone of reality as the rest of us – well at least that of the NYR mgt, and that is probably a good thing. If nothing else, you provide amusement for some, heartburn for others, everytime you get your collective panties in a bunch.

    124. “Give me guys like Shanny, Avery, Calley, etc that play all around games and dont need one excuse after another.”

      Dawes that friggin ewok rides under the *biggest excuse ever* in that he needs to play with top lines/players to produce. Fuuuuuuuck that. Did Theo Fluery and or Marty St.Louis play that card on their way up…?

      Okay okay–I actually admittedly have *no idea* either of their histories in that regard, but I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that they did not. I can tell you it took St. Louis a tremendous amount of dedication to break into the NHL and have the success that he has had, even after putting up very successful minor league numbers, and it will take Nigel the same dedication, if not more.

    125. Mike Milbury probobly thought he had guts and vision too.
      He certainly wasn’t tentative, or scared of making a mistake. I’m not so sure about the myopic bit though.

      Closer to home, you may be able to say something similar about Espo in his GM incarnation too.

      Not to be totally facetious, what you are describing is recklessness, not necessarily vision. Not every kid makes it in the NHL and not always just because they didn’t get a ‘chance’. And if you have a kid that doesn’t get it in the end (Jamie Lundmark anyone?) you’re stuck with a roster hole because you dumped the vet in your ‘vision’ of grander things.

    126. from what I saw Byers was the top rookie, Dubinsky was handed the job since he didn’t have competition, and Dawes was a victim of Hossa, Hollweg, & Orr, along with Avery & Straka & Dubinsky. If the 3rd center went to someone other than Dubinsky, Dawes makes the team.. Keeping 8 D is not a great idea. Yes I expect Dubinsky & Staal to get skyboxed & sent down, and matbe brought back up along with Dawes. Sather is not going on vacation for the season. He’ll be trying to adjust the roster for the playoffs.

    127. czechthemout!!!!! on

      mike said-Prucha is the most over rated guy in hockey. He does one thing (score).

      buddy ryan said-“chris carter is overrated.All he does is score touchdowns”.and make the hall of fame.

      doddie-anisimov will be this teams first or second line center in three years or so.

      someone here said strudwick is versatile because he can play forward.Says who.strudwick can’t even play defense.He is a great guy and a great lockeroon presense.But a water boy can also be nice and make people laugh.As a defenseman,strudwick sucks.He and malik should finish one and two in the pouriss trophy competition.

    128. LOL Jumped on Colin whites back?

      How about being a man taking off that P*ssy visor and fighting a guy from the front instead of always expecting teammates to fight for you?

    129. czechthemout!!!!! on

      imagination-Dubinsky was handed the job? Are you kidding?Did you watch any of the preseason games?I believe he was either first or second star against the devils varsity team.He than was promptly put on the fourth line with either hollweg,orr,or hossa that of course would stop any talanted player from scoring any points.It did not stop him though from standing up to andy sutton,a very tough fighter.he also was very effective on the p.k. and won something like 70% of the faceoffs.Oh and when drury was serving his penalty minutes renney in a major surpridse to me,actually used him on the powerplay and he promptly scored.He clearly deserved to make the team.Nothing was handed to him.I will say that i too was very impressed with byers.He clearly out played renney love child marcel hossa.but that is another issue.

    130. Doodie Machetto on

      CTO: the only reason why I don’t have that confidence for Anisimov is that Gomez and Drury are locked into such big contracts. I don’t think they want to keep him in Hartford for 3 or 4 years. Frankly, I don’t think Anisimov will stand for it, especially when he can make more money in russia.

    131. Bonfire – aren’t you a fan of other sports teams that you can enlighten with your play the youth mantra. Sauer will not be sitting in the stands like Strudwick will be. Sanguinetti – is so weak defensively he’ll make you think of Ozo and Poti not Park and Greshner.

      You have a one track mind. You probably thought some LA King or Edm Oiler rookie (or rookie wannabe at 18 yrs old) should have replaced Gretzky. And Pronger and Niedermeyer never should have been Ducks last yr – too old. Of course they wouldn’t have won the cup but at least the Anaheim Bonfire fan would have been happy. You and your ilk crack me up with your complete lack of hockey knowledge.

    132. To Strudwick is Nothing…..

      You make it so easy to refute your statements it is almost unfair. You said: “No fool, it was an example that goalies can go from hero to zero vice versa very quickly. And Lundqvist could go bust any time, especially if he crumbles under the pressure.”

      Henry’s recent crumbling under pressure: Olympic Gold Medal. Top goaltender in the Swedish Elite League during the NHL lockout. Best goalie in the NHL last season from January to April. Top 3-4 goalies in the post-season.

      I just don’t see it.

      The reality is, Montoya is on the wrong team. He very well may deserve to be a starter somewhere but that just ain’t happening with Henry on the Blueshirts.

      It reminds me of Beezer-Richter in the early 90s, but you were probably in diapers then. Either goalie would have gotten us to the Cup I think. In fact, Richter brought it home in 1994 and Beezer made a run at it with FLA in 1996.

      But at the end of the day, there was no room for both on the same team. One had to go. I am not saying that Montoya or Henry are Beezer and Richter (not yet, Henry is closer to either obviously) but they are both younger (I think) than those two were in the early 90s (and less seasoned).

      The ideal role for Montoya is to play 60ish games in a season, be dominating wherever he is, and then be traded. That would be his most value. Unless, bite my tongue, Hank has injury issues. Then we would need Montoya.

      Barring the unforseen, I don’t envision Montoya ever playing more than 20/season for the Rangers as long as Hank is on the team.

      Remember, they picked Montoya before anyone knew anything about King Henry.

    133. czech Dubinsky is good, but Renney didn’t put anyone at 3rd line center except Betts, Smith, & AA. Yet he used Avery & Straka last season as 2nd line centers & tried Callihan in camp with Prucha & Straka, and they were a buzz saw with Prucha getting 2 goals each time. Never did that line or those centers see a preseason game in that spot. Dawes has to be dejected and feel alittle setup. Dubinsky now has a Hossalike aura, which he probably doesn’t deserve.

    134. Doodie Machetto on

      imag: Dubinsky played at the 3rd line spot in the finale against Philly. Before that, he never played at the 3rd spot because Gomez and Drury were never dressed together. Therefore, he played in the 1 or 2 spot. Dubinsky is clearly the third guy on the depth chart in terms of natural centers.

    135. Can’t make the Rangers opening night lineup? quickly offer Dawes to Lou, Paul, or Garth and watch Nigel start his stellar NHL career as a Devil, Flyer or Islander this season! I have this terrible feeling that in a couple of seasons Nigel Dawes will become the next Martin St. Louis–a superior NHL goal scorer who is not given a serious opportunity by the team that drafted him to shine at the NHL level, only to succeed when he gets that chance from a Ranger opponent (also see Moose Dupont and Don Luce, etc.) Won’t our beloved Ranger brain trust ever learn. And don’t tell me playing with Betts as your center is a real NHL opportunity—Betts is the worst passing center i have seen in 45 years of watching the Rangers!

    136. Doodie Machetto on

      Akayama, I hav the opposite worry: that if we make room for Dawes and give him eery chance to impress that he turns into the next Jamie Lundmark.

    137. Doodie Machetto on

      But I’ll give you Betts: he is definitely the worst passing center that I’ve seen in my lifetime of watching the Rangers.

    138. czechthemout!!!!! on

      imagination-that’s right and dubi outplayed them all.As far as avery or straka and cally playing center,neither one looked good last year for a consistant amount of time.and cally’s obvious position is on the wing.if your upset about dawes,your are looking for the wrong scapegoat.look no further than renney and his love child hossa.

    139. Doodie Machetto on

      CTO: Dawes or Hossa for the 4th line? Seriously, who would you rather see there?

    140. Doodie:

      Lundmark never competed effectively at the AHL level–let alone in New York; while Nigel has been noted as a top Ahl player at least so far; i agree there are no guarantees; I just say natural goal scorers are hard to come by and often require careful handling at the birth of their careers (see the 3 years it took the great Guy Lafleur to crack the Montreal lineup on his way to the Hall of Fame)

    141. Doodie Machetto on

      I would’ve taken Byers over Hossa.

      Quite frankly, I’m surprised with how good Byers was for that 4th line role. I had him pegged for that next year but he really impressed me this year. Fact is, Sather’s big mistakes were signing guys to contracts that should’ve been let go:

      1) Hollweg
      2) Hossa
      3) Strudwick or Pock. I’d prefer Pock stay, but if they were intent on signing Struds, they should’ve let Pock go too.
      4) Shanahan (this is just a matter of taste, but I think we can all agree that the amount of money is much too high)

      Thank god he let Ortmeyer go. Imagine if we also had Orty on the team too?

    142. czechthemout!!!!! on

      doodie-I would rather have byers on the fourth line.dawes is a victim of the numbers.He played well enough to earn a spot.if i were renney,i would have promised him either straka’s or shanny’s spot next year or in case of injury this year.But knowing renney,his love child will be given either spot if and when it is available.

    143. czechthemout!!!!! on

      doodie-i agree on shanny.as much as i like him,he is NOT the sacrificing hero he is being made out to be.He still looked old and slow in the preseason and sored his goals against the isls 4th string goalie and jv squad.5.2million is no sacrifice for a 39year old player.he is getting 2.2million more that he should and that is why we will not have a quality backup goalie like al montoya on the roster.

    144. Doodie Machetto on

      akayama, Lundmark had very similar numbers to Dawes in the AHL. That also doesn’t count the fact that Dawes played for a much better team than Lundmark.

      Lundmark
      2001-02 Hartford Wolf Pack AHL 79 27 32 59
      2002-03 Hartford Wolf Pack AHL 22 9 9 18
      2004-05 Hartford Wolf Pack AHL 64 14 27 41

      Dawes
      2005-06 Hartford Wolf Pack AHL 77 35 32 67
      2006-07 Hartford Wolf Pack AHL 65 27 33 60

      A few less points per game, but close enough for comparison (not counting the lockout year when Lundmark was already pretty much confirmed as a bust).

    145. Doodie Machetto on

      CTO I couldn’t agree more. I just hope you’re wrong about about Hossa getting the top time opportunity over Dawes in the event of a injury.

      Of course, I hope there are no injuries first. But, if there was, I hope Dawes is the guy who comes up.

      Something I was thinking is that we are pretty thin on the right side. If Jagr, Shanny, or Callahan go down, who plays RW in their place, Prucha? Or does Bourret get the shot?

      And if Jagr goes down, we’re going to have much bigger problems than who plays the third RW.

    146. “Betts is the worst passing center i have seen in 45 years of watching the Rangers!”

      Amen

      I don’t really mind too much Dawes starting in Hartford(he is not my favorite prospect, but he did look good this preseason). But I do mind Valliquette and Strudwick being on the roster.

    147. czechthemout!!!!! on

      doodie-i think callahan has the ability to play on the first line for a long time.In fact i see his game transitioning to top line wing.He goes to the net and has a knack for being in the right place at the right time.He also showed a snipers touch with some of his goals last year.and than dawes can play 3rd rw.

    148. Lundmark had very similar numbers to Dawes in the AHL. That also doesn’t count the fact that Dawes played for a much better team than Lundmark.

      Lundmark
      2001-02 Hartford Wolf Pack AHL 79 27 32 59
      2002-03 Hartford Wolf Pack AHL 22 9 9 18
      2004-05 Hartford Wolf Pack AHL 64 14 27 41

      Dawes
      2005-06 Hartford Wolf Pack AHL 77 35 32 67
      2006-07 Hartford Wolf Pack AHL 65 27 33 60

      A few less points per game, but close enough for comparison.

      This is bullcrap. Have you seen both Lundmark and Dawes play in the AHL?

      Lundmark was a floater, basically useless if you needed someone for the corners or along the boards. He was basically despised by most knowlegeable fans during his time in Hartford.

      Dawes gets his hands dirty, is tough along the boards and in the corners, sticks his nose in front of the net and takes hits to score goals, will drop his gloves to support his teammates or defend himself, AND has a wicked NHL-level wrist shot.

    149. czechthemout!!!!! on

      doodie-i’m not sold on bourret yet.i saw many pack games last year,and he did look good in them,but his decision making is a little long and it he will not have the luxury of time at the nhl level.

    150. Doodie Machetto on

      CTO: I’m not certain Cally will ever be our number one RW. If all the hype about Cherepanov comes true, than he is likely the heir apparent to our #1 RW spot. But if it falls short, then Cally would be the guy, and let’s hope he improves to the point of earning it, as opposed to being the only guy who can fill that spot. But it’s definitely something we should try and draft (Right Wings), seeing as how we have 3 very good young defensemen, a glut of left wings, a glut of centers, and two starting goaltenders.

      Dawes is also a LW, so playing him on the right side doesn’t really solve anything.

    151. Robby Bonfire on

      Well, LI Joey, I’m a Phillies fan, and you can imagine how deeply “in love” I am with the likes of Moyer, Mesa, Alfonseco, Gordon and what’s left (nothing) of Lieber. You are right, LI Joey, professional sports teams need an old guy like Mesa with his 7.20 ERA to throw in there when the season is on the line.

      “GRACIAS DIO” for the fuked-up NY Mets and their glut of Conines, “Pedro’s,” Alou’s, Wagner’s and Glavine’s of the world. OLD GUYS ARE GREAT! Of course without them the Mets would have won a hundred games. LOL! And no one mentioned how old those guys are in conjunction with their collape. More convenient just to say they “Choked.” Actually the tank was on EMPTY and good riddance Glavine you strike-year instigating, millionaire-whiner butt-fuk!

    152. Doodie Machetto on

      So Robby, why is it that every team in the league that is making a run at the cup will stockpile, or try to stockpile, with veterans at the trade deadline or during the offseason? Is every GM in the history of the NHL wrong?

    153. Talented Mrs. Strudwick “once again I ask all those kool-aid drinking fools: when and how will Bourret, Anisimov, Byers, Cherepanov, Pyatt, Korpikoski, Dupont, Moore, Hillier, etc. make the Rangers?” When they earn a friggin’ spot. Out of all those guys, the only one close right now his Anisimov and this his his first professional season.

      Robby – Did I say anything about Struds? I don’t think so. Why? Because he’ll be playing only one position on this team: Left Out. I’ll be shocked if he laces up for more than 40 games…Now you choose to focus on two guys: Sanguinetti and Sauer. Both showed they have talent this year, but neither looked like the second comming of Greschner or Park. In fact, they looked dreadfully inexperienced and in need of more coaching. Besides, Gresch TORE up juniors and Park was a second-overall pick; both played at a time when the league was FAR more competitive. Apples and oranges with the two you list.

      Look, I can actually sympathize with you “pro-youth” guys pining like hell for an average team age that hovers precariously close to the drinking age. For some many years, it was what was lacking here. But the truth is, this isn’t the Rangers of old. The Youth aren’t getting rushed and are instead learning a thing or two in Hartford. They’re being rotated into service when it counts and that has translated into NINE (READ IT AGAIN: NINE-NINE-NINE)home-grown players on the roster(Pock, Dubinsky, Staal, Tyutin, Lundqvist, Hollweg, Callahan, Girardi, Prucha) and a TENTH in waiting(Dawes), makes all this BS blustering UTTERLY MOOT. That’s more than 40 percent of the team, drafted or signed out of juniors. I can’t remember a recent Ranger team with such a percentage.

      Get excited, because this is an exciting time in this team’s history. But this incessant whining and pining over youth is beyond tiresome. It’s asinine.

    154. “I’m not certain Cally will ever be our number one RW. If all the hype about Cherepanov comes true, than he is likely the heir apparent to our #1 RW spot. But if it falls short, then Cally would be the guy”

      I don’t see Callahan as a 1st liner, I think it will be Cherepanov and/or Bourret or some UFA.

    155. Doodie Machetto on

      Pock had 44 games last season splitting time as our #7 and as a top 6. Struds is lucky to break 20, especially since we are also carrying Pock. I think Slats is working the phones like crazy trying to unload Pock.

    156. Doodie Machetto on

      And if he can unload Pock, then Struds will still be lucky to break 30 (without any injuries to out top 6) and he didn’t screw us playing 8 last season.

    157. Pock was not 6th defenseman last season because Mara, Ward, Malik, Tyutin, Rachunek, Rozsival, Girardi, and even Kasparaitis and Ozolinsh in the beginning were ahead of him and he still managed 44 games with no major injuries.

      “Slats is working the phones like crazy trying to unload Pock”

      why? He is good as a 7th defenseman and is not expensive.

      “Struds is lucky to break 20, especially since we are also carrying Pock.”

      unless they get hit with injuries. And wouldn’t it make more sense to give those games to a callup like Baranka?

    158. Bonfire so with your Phillies in the playoffs shouldn’t you be on some Phillies blog imparting your significant knowledge to the uninformed there. You can always come back here after that – or maybe even find another blog of people to annoy. You conveniently ignored the rest of my message.

    159. Doodie Machetto on

      Pock was number 6 from the time that they demoted Kaspar and Ozo to the time they promoted Girardi, and was #6 again when Tyutin went down with his knee injury. He was #5 when Rachunek was hurt also, with Struds filling in that #6 role.

    160. Doodie Machetto on

      “he sure screwed Liffiton”

      I didn’t say Liffiton, just the team last year.

    161. Doodie Machetto on

      “why? He is good as a 7th defenseman and is not expensive.”

      Because Strudwick has no trade value and we don’t need 8 D. Pock would be in Hartford if it wasn’t garanteed thathe would be claimed off of waivers.

    162. “Because Strudwick has no trade value and we don’t need 8 D. Pock would be in Hartford if it wasn’t garanteed thathe would be claimed off of waivers.”

      But Strudwick is not good enough to be the 7th defenseman. It should be Strudwick who goes through waivers because he is worthless and to Hartford to captain the Wolfpack.

      If Strudwick is our 7th defenseman he will play at least 40 games, that would be a total disaster, we already carrying 2 lousy defensemen in Malik and Mara and Rozsival is not that far off.

    163. ” Dubinsky will wear #17 and Staal #18. The two rookies who made the team late last season also have new numbers — Dan Girardi #5 and Ryan Callahan #24.”

      WTF? 18 and 24 suck, couldn’t they come up with better numbers?

    164. My take..

      1.) Montoya was going down either way….we cant afford him.

      Im happy that he will get a good solid year in Hartford cuz vally is a lot better than Holt…so Monty wont be splitting games 50-50 like he was with Vally last year. In my opinion…we need to let Monty have a full solid year since he had a shaky start last year. And dont forget – we cant lock up Hank until January so its better to hold on to Al for a little while longer, until we lock up Hank Full time. A full season in Hartford will make Monty more valuable trade bait instead of 10-15 games with the Rangers.

      2.) Dubie

      Im happy he made the team but im disappointed that he’s 3rd line center. I think Dubie is more of a power forward type unlike Dawes…Dubie would have been fine on the 4th line.

      I’m mad because Hossa should have been on line 1 with JJ..that would move Straka to 3 or Avery to 3 giving us 3 solid scoring lines. Now Hossa is gunna have to play with Betts and OrrWeg again and do his usual 5 points in 40 games. Nobody is gunna score on that line….Hossa doesn’t belong there.

      3.) Pock / Staal

      Im glad Staal finally made it…and I’m glad we hung onto Pock (even if it was a no-brainer) because next year if we Hopefully let Malik go..or if anyone flops this year – Pock will be there. The strudwick thing is a Renny thing that we’ll probably never understand.

      —-

      Overall…im happy that we have more choices than none. Now we’re trying to decide how to shuffle around 10 forwards to make 3 solid scoring lines when 2 years ago we were trying to find a #4 forward who could score and help our 2nd line. Gunna be a fun year.

    165. “WTF? 18 and 24 suck, couldn’t they come up with better numbers?” …is there anythingelse of no substance you can find to complain about. Want to check their undies or cologne? I gues to you that’s humor…. GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE!

    166. O.K. “Old Boys Network,” how long will Shanahan hold up before his k.o. concussion for this season? Will Straka have a clue? God forbid, but is this Jagr’s tank season? Tell me assertively it is not. How about our boy Valiquette, will he win 1/3rd of his starts? You know if we dump some of the tired, old dead wood up front, we could get a rather nice back-up goalie up here.

      I think the chemistry and the morale throughout this organization has to be suspect. Too many guys on the way out faking it for the money; too many guys being held up, career wise, because management can’t make a friggin’ commitment to those under 30. Staal and Dubinsky will go down before Straka, that punch-drunk Hollweg, and Betts, who is virtually USELESS, get theirs. Sad, really sad. Keep hanging on to nothing.

      To think we have a contingent here which complains about Hossa??? I said it during the summer, I will say it again – Hossa scores more points this year than Shanahan. Take it to the bank, or speak up NOW if you disagree. We have enough hind-sight “experts” here to fill a Central Park muggers convention.

    167. Roszival was brilliant in the most recent playoffs. By far our best D. They should all have played at his level. The real season starts in April, and Roszival really showed up, whereas Mara went fishing a month early. And you knock Roszival? What were you watching, Judge Judy re-runs?

    168. Doodie Machetto on

      Robby: My prediction for Hossa: 15 goals, 8 assists. And I think I’m being generous.

      Prediction for Shanny: at least 25 goals, 32 assists.

      So I’m taking you up on that.

      I’ll do you one better: Straka has more NHL points than Dawes has AHL points (provided he doesn’t suffer some significant injury, meaning 15 games or more). Take THAT to the bank.

    169. I think my Phillies will get bounced rather quickly, so I am passing on adding my take at their blogger site.

      Plus I just don’t care for the “The Phillies made the playoffs” euphoria, in Philly town. Wild card teams “make the playoffs.” Division winners accomplished more than “making the playoffs.” Made for TV wild card garbage ruined the two major sports.

      And what is with all this celebrating in eight cities like the World Series was just won, when all they did was book some games beyond #162. Seven cities and their fans are going to be awfully disappointed, they can’t ALL win the Series.

      I think they celebrate joining the post-season lineup so emotionally because deep down they know the New York Rangers have a better chance of winning the Stanley Cup than they have of winning the Series. At least the Mets are home, resting now. LOL.

    170. Doodie –

      I respect your taking a public position re scoring totals for Shanahan, Dawes, Hossa and Straka.

      One thing, though, as older players are more susceptible to injuries than younger players, to qualify the projected numbers you post for Straka, on the basis of his staying sound, is a cop-out, and you know it. One of the factors I considered when predicting Hossa vs. Shanahan scoring totals, in fact, is just that, the injury factor. Shanahan might be comfortably ahead in December and then miss two-three months with a concussion or whatever. Shanahan and Straka’s time for being productive is on the bubble. My guess is this is their last time around the block.

    171. Robby Hossa in his dreams wishes he could outscore Shanahan , unless you’re talking about his brother.

    172. I think Avery’s photo is absolutely hilarious, and is intended to be, and I think the entire team is probably having a great laugh over it to the point where its good for morale.

    173. yeah i think hossa with a shaved head will show up soon…

      but doodie made a good point..maybe this is why elisha dumped him..

      and he isnt exactly getting back on the market with those shades…he looks like a half-bald kyle farnsworth lol

      although avery & farnsworth are on 2 different pages

    174. and by that i meant avery is a great player who changed our team and farnsworth sucks..

      i dont want this turning into a fashion blog lol

    175. Maybe I am the only one, but I can’t stand #’s 18, and all even numbers in the 20’s. And I love more rare numbers like 41, 43, 46, etc. I don’t understand why Callahan changed such a great number for such a lame one.

    176. 24 has been Cally’s # throughout most of his life, so he probably jumped at the chance to get his number back. I called that this past summer is a drunken convo with a friend hehe. I have a new respect for the #43 though thanks to Cally.

    177. oh I forgot, this is a kids blog, those guys are ancient history and before most births. I get the feeling 1994 wasn’t even witnessed by most here. Yet they are now experts.

    178. “I don’t understand why Callahan changed such a great number for such a lame one.”

      maybe it’s not lame to him?

      How many years did you play hockey yenner?

    179. Derf – I couldn’t agree more with all your points. Well said.

      Talented Mrs. Strudwick – “he sure screwed Liffiton, those 8 games could have been a stepping stone for a solid NHL career for him.”

      Since WHEN is this team a “stepping stone” for players to go on and have fruitful careers? Let’s focus on the pivitol word in the aforementioned sentence, and one that few here seem to understand: TEAM. What’s good for Liffiton or Dawes or any of those guys down there might not be good for the Rangers and their cup aspirations. Many of you forget the point of playing this game for most teams is to take a run at Lord Stanley’s big gulp.

      Now let’s go on a fact-finding mission here:FACT: The Rangers have a whopping 17 returning players this season(not even counting Strudwick). FACT: Little more than half the roster was on the 2005-2006 team. FACT: nine players on the roster are homegrown. FACT: The Rangers will dress three guys eligable for the Calder Cup and four “rookies” altogether.

      FICTION: The Rangers purposely stagnate guys in Hartford because they like spending lots of money on big-ticket players.

      What is assembled in NY is the product of three years of work that IS paying dividens. I’ve never liked Sather, not when he came here, certainly not when he signed a goat-like Messier or traded for Lindros or traded Leetch. I’ve often been the one screaming “Slats must go” during games where Jeff Toms was on the FIRST LINE. But I’ll give credit where credit is due: He’s got a helluva team here and every bit of the contender in the Atlantic, much less the east all around. Size, youth, skill, and seasoned veterans. Most of all, these guys have CHEMISTRY.

      Robby – I’m a firm proponent of Hossa and still think the guy will break the mold of a fourth-line grinder. But I have to say, I doubt he’ll best Shanny’s point total. And for your other points, I think Straka and Shanny are instrumental on this team at this point. Both have tremendous ability and are highly regarded. Even if their production trails this season, they’ll be worth their contracts in their ability to break guys like Callahan, Dubinsky and Dawes into the bigs.

      Akayama49 – Dawes has a nose for the net, no doubt. But to even put him in the same paragraph as Guy LaFleur is almost laughable. I’ve got no doubt Nigel will have a long and successful career, most likely with the Rangers. But a shoe-in for the HOF? I’d be more willing to side with Robby’s Hossa speculation.

    180. Doodie Machetto on

      Robby: Shanahan I’m saying is a guaranteed. I think Straka is much more likely to go down with injuries. I see Shanny getting those totals, ASSUMING he will go down for a bit. If he doesn’t, I think he could go as high as 30 g, 38a.

    181. Doodie:

      Straka was a plus-minus WASHOUT last year, second worse numbers on the team in this category, to Hollweg who is not supposed to score. Something is amiss with him.

      Dawes is down because management knows it can’t carry two little specialist left wings on the team. I would make the change to the future replacing the past, NOW, but you already know that. At least one or two others here see it the same way. One thing is indisputable, players past their peak are slipping physically, daily, weekly, monthly, etc. Players on the upswing are consistently improving. Time is NOT on Straka’s side vs. Dawes in this competition between them.

    182. Counting Callahan and Girardi as “rookies” may be technically correct according to NHL guidelines, however as they established themselves as regulars on the big club last season, they are not new, rookie additions this year. Interestingly, The Hockey News lists Dubinsky and Staal as “R-0,” and lists Callahan and Girardi as “R-1,” as in a rookie with one season, or a partial season’s experience.

      For now the number, in reality, is two actual rookies, one with zero NHL experience, and as we know, Dubinsky with a cup of coffee up here in a fill-in role. Sauer, Dawes and hopefully one or two others, will add to the rookie contingent in the near future. Some vets here now are going to break down during the course of this season, that is a given.

    183. Bonfire – Dawes was about the worst player on the ice especially defensively in game 6 vs Buffalo. But really not his fault due to 1) Renney putting him in that position where he hadn’t been all season and 2) he can’t help it defense is not his thing. BTW when can I expect the LaFleur s/b playing instead of Henrik comments from you. Finally – you’re so off base re Straka it’s laughable.

    184. Bonfire – you never counted Cally and Girardi as rookies in your previous rants re last yr. So they have to count as such for this yr. read it and weep – 4 rookies on the team this yr. Now please find something else to complain about. Because as sure as birds fly a Robby Bonfire complains.

    185. Ok, regardless of what everyone thinks is the lineup/lines SHOULD be, there is still some question of the what the lines WILL be.

      Where will Straka and Hossa end up? Will they give Hossa a shot on the first line? I think they’re going to leave it how it was last year with Straka playing alongside Jagr…

    186. Doodie:

      I have you down for your Hossa 15/8 and Shanahan 25/32 projected numbers; also your take that Staka in the NHL will outscore Dawes in the AHL. We can adjust their final totals to games played, letting us both off the hook as regards the injury factor, a very generous concession on my part as the old guys figure to go down before the young guys hit the sidelines.

      I like the Hossa propositon, but I absolutely LOVE the Dawes side of the your Dawes-Straka competition. Hell, Dawes would outscore Straka if they BOTH were in the AHL this year. No contest on that one, as I see it. Of course I was wrong on a bet back in 1975, so I am not perfect. LOL.

    187. “I never counted Callahan and Girardi as rookies last year.”

      Damn, Far Rockaway Joey, that is your wildest, dumbest, most stupid, insipid, unsupportable remark both here and in your lifetime of reading old Dell comic books for a living.

      Two players make their NHL debut and you would have us believe that I don’t consider them rookies?” Better scrap the slurpy’s for some wheat germ, old boy.

    188. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaah, I think Hossa does that and I think Dawes would do this over Straka……WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!! Enough already. And the guy that is complaining about jersey numbers, are you kidding me? We now know what the roster looks like. Why don’t we start making guesses on what the lines are going to look like instead of pointless BS. Or, if you are in the front office of the NYR and rub elbows with the coaching staff, then you can continue to make waves about how you think the team should organized. Sounds like a bunch of babies need a diaper change to me.

    189. Hell I have a great idea!! I was at the pre season game against the Islanders the other night. And you know what, I think this team needs to get younger!! Let’s scrap the whole roster, and the girls little rangers team that took the ice between periods are not proven players by any means, but they are young, real young, let’s bring them up to start the season, and I am not talking about just one or two of them, I MEAN THE WHOLE TEAM!!!!!! LETS GO RANGERS!!!!!!!

    190. “DAWES WAS ABOUT THE WORST PLAYER ON THE ICE ESPECIALLY DEFENSIVELY IN GAME 6 VS. BUFFALO.”

      Hey, you may be right about that, but Dawes is a kid on the upgrade, and now this is NEXT YEAR relative to last year.

      Also, so many here just naturally assume that old guys will repeat the numbers they posted, last year. The Nylander backers were notorious for doing this, as though at his age this year, Nylander is going to have another year like last year, which was an especially advanced-age career year by any standard you apply.

      Your car’s value depreciates from year to year, and athletes past their prime do the same thing, Nothing stays the same from year to year. Being ahead of the immutable change curve is the place to be. Change is the one constant.

    191. Thanks BlueClue!

      I love this line….

      “Dubinsky did the math. If Dawes was getting sent down to Hartford of the American Hockey League, then Dubinsky was golden.”

    192. Doodie Machetto on

      I think to start the season we are going to see

      Straka-Gomez-Jagr
      Avery-Drury-Shanahan
      Prucha-Dubsinky-Callahan
      Hossaweg-Betts-Orr

      Roszival-Malik
      Tyutin-Girardi
      Staal-Mara

      Not my ideal combinations, but that’s what I think Renney has planned.

    193. “Since WHEN is this team a “stepping stoneâ€? for players to go on and have fruitful careers?”

      it is more of a “junk yard” where all the old, obsolete, unwanted and forgotten come to play.

    194. Ted aka Anonymus on

      Mrs. Strudwick,

      If you feel that way stop posting your BS on this blog and go root for another team, but then again you might not even be a NYR fan. So rooting for another team is not a big deal you son of a motherless goat.

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