Jagr back for finale


The first time the Rangers ice a full team will end up being the first game of the season. But at least they will have Jaromir Jagr back in the lineup tonight against the Flyers.

With Tom Renney wanting to give Nigel Dawes another look, he’ll sit Petr Prucha, and will also rest his top pairing of Michal Rozsival and Marek Malik in favor of Paul Mara and Thomas Pock. Sean Avery (groin) and Stephen Valiquette (hand) are also out, as is Artem Anisimov, who will likely be shipped to Hartford by Monday.

As for lines, you can expect Renney to stick with Brendan Shanahan and Scott Gomez together, and to give Jagr his first test run with Chris Drury.

Still unclear is how much Henrik Lundqvist will play, although Renney sounded last night that he wanted to give the Swede — who has yet to exhibit his best form this preseason — at least some more work before Thursday.

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  1. Hopefully Jagr/Drury can have the same success that Gomez/Shanny had last night show some early chemistry.

    With this injury that Valiquette has, does that mean he won’t be the backup to begin the season?

    And is there any update on Avery?

  2. The Flyers will definitely have an almost full lineup playing at home allowing to read more out of the game than last night against the Islanders….

    Sam do you have some updates on that ?… What a surprise the Kings leading 3-0 against the Ducks in London….

  3. Pavel – Yes, but there was really no chemistry between Jagr and Gomez so Renney wanted to see what Drury and Jagr could do. The chemistry that Gomez shown with Shanny was great.

    3-1 Kings now

  4. I’m 100% positive!! I was watching the Ducks vs. Kings game today and on the list had the Rangers vs. Flyers. Go check now if you don’t believe me. But yeah, it’s online.

  5. The Game is on Center Ice and why not sit Betts and Give Anisimov a game even if it is on the 4th line. Although I think the reason is Betts will center the 3rd line and Dubinsky will center the 4th line but if not then playing Betts tonight makes no sense.

  6. I realize they had it against two goalies who will never be in the NHL. But it wasn’t even the goals, they knew where each other were going to be on the ice and the passes were perfect. It was more then the goals that had me impressed with them.

  7. I think the game is blacked out. Not sure, but I read the thing that sadi blackouts for September 29 nand it says Rangers local viewing area will be blacked out. It doesnt make sense, but thats what it say.

  8. The game was listed earlier, and I was watching part of the preview to the leafs game, but I think their web feeds went down. The console won’t launch.

    The site (for the few times I have used it) is fairly buggy. Kinda supports the NYR in their suit vs the [f*cking-]bettman hockey league – they can’t even keep their ‘premier’ bband offering up and running.

  9. Anyone else reminded of the panthers/rangers away game shortly after the hurricane when it sounded like the announcers were using bad cell phones?

  10. Works now. Thoughts? Picture is at best so-so. No pause rwd functionality. The 4 screens sounds kind of cool, but on balance I wouldn’t pay for it. Center Ice off of the dish and Tivo is a better bet.

  11. Okay, in less than 3 minutes of coverage the idiot announcers have said the following:

    Hollweg is going to get a 20 game suspension for his hit on Timmonen (basically comparing Hollwegs hit to Downie’s) Gee, he only got 2 minutes? Dang those refs! ;-)

    Drury should get the instigator- and the refs conveniently evened up the calls.

    I hate Philly.

  12. when you get on nhl.tv you have to login right? then what? go to flyers page? i am logged in, itg welcomes me, and then i am unable to get the game going. anyone care to let me in on the secret?

  13. thanking you CML….i knew there was something to click….i watched the isles rangers game this way earlier in the week….got it now….really love seeing hte flyers promotions…what losers!

  14. Close everything down and then go to nhl.tv in a new browser – it has been working since the end of the first.

  15. “Strudwick holding on for dear life” .. is that a joke????? That’s not what I saw. I hate these announcers!!!

  16. “They felt Lundquist had it covered and he didn’t”

    “Biron does not give up rebounds”

    “The Rangers D are scared of the Flyers”

    “Teams used to SHAKE” when they came to play the Broad Street Bullies. They are doing a good job of recreating thatthat this year.”

    Just some of the brilliant nuggets offered by the homer announcers.

  17. 4 minute penalty? no dipshit

    GOD these guys are dumb

    Now he said DRury “goes in” for the other penalty?
    just AWFUL…

    glad I was typing this and didnt see the goal….

    those announcers are pitiful though

  18. “shanny started as a gang-buster last season”… wow what loser announcers, I’ve never heard that term for hockey in my life. And it now sounds like they’re reading off of a stat sheet.

  19. What is this crap, two 5 on 3 power plays for the flyers, I guess the refs feel that this is the only way the flyers can score, what a joke.

  20. 2-1 flyers scored on 2 seperate 5 on 3’s Dubinsky scored on a NYR PP earlier in the second. Most of the fights were in the first.

  21. 2-1 flyers. I don’t remember who fought with Gomez… it wasn’t a ligit fight… just a couple of quick jabs at the head. fairly okay game. Refs suck. Stupid calls that shouldn’t be calls. Rangers were scored on twice by 5 on 3s. I hate the announcers, they are dumb.

  22. “Flyer fans are even more retarded than Ranger fans” … and the thing that wrote this post knows only ridiculous comments . Go root for the fishsticks.

  23. It appears the flyers are trying to go back in time and try to emulate there broad street bully days. I hope they have good penalty killers or it will be another long season for them.

  24. God, the picture is even worse in the MTL v OTT game – looks like a reelplayer feed ca 1996…

  25. Someone tell me if one of the text messages on the screen reads “Flyers suck. GO RANGERS!” I have to finish some work, so I can’t check.

  26. Now it looks like a reelplayer feed from 1976 (no feed at all) – keeps going in and out – nhl.tv sucks

  27. Doesn’t it sound like the announcer is pronouncing Hank’s name wrong, like he’s saying Lungfist?? IT’S LUNDQVIST.b

  28. sounds (i still havent seen a second of the game) like dawes and dubinsky are duking it out for the possible final spot

  29. “jagr shoots and oh my he missed the net” okay.. so. It was deflected. What did you think he meant to miss the net?

  30. “Hollwegg hits ben eager, he should get a penalty, no?, i don’t think he should get away with that!” well get over it. it wasn’t a penalty. I’m sick of how when a Ranger touches a Flyer after getting hit the announcers are like ‘why did he do that?’ …”apparently they took the whistles away”, not when they feel like giving 2 consecutive penalties to the Rangers like they’ve been doing. Oh look, a Flyer penalty. Yeah!

  31. Hollwegg – “public enemy #1” … “he’s hitting everything that moves” … “Oh, penalty, he deserves it”

    The announcer deserves to get fired.

  32. Boy, I don’t know who is refereeing this game tonight but these ref’s truly suck. Eager runs Hollweg and hollweg didn’t have the puck and than hollweg drill a flyer with the puck and the ref calls a penalty on hollweg for charging, just brutal call.

  33. i love how the 3 guys who don’t have to clear waivers and the youngest members of this team are scoring goals in this game… don’t make the last 2 (not including a goaltender) cuts easy or anything

  34. Wow, I’ve seen everything now. There’s no doubt this ref should be investigated for betting on this game, he obviously bet on the flyers, calls Jagr for elbowing, jagr is 6 feet plus and the guy who tried to hit him looked like he was at best 5 feet 7 inches and ran in to Jagrs elbow, another unbelievable brutal call.

  35. That was truly the worse announcer calling a hockey game since I’ve been following hockey since 1967, that’s how bad this guy was, he must be brothers with the ref who called those brutal penalties against the rangers.

  36. Homer announcers is the biggest problem with the center ice package. I live in CA, so I only get to see half of the games on MSG. The other half are on whoever has the home feed. Some of the announcers are as bad as these two were…

  37. Too Boo-Coo,
    I’ll take your word on that, this was my first time ever doing this and since I live on long island, I get all my home team channels.

  38. It is truly funny that the three stars of this game were stall, dubi and dawes, three guys who probably won’t be on this team, where’s Vinnie Pooh and Bonfire, there going to have a nervous break down.

  39. The web center ice in new this season (and so far it sucks). As soon as I moved to California, I got a sat dish to watch the Rangers (couldn’t miss the Peter Nedved era…)

    Cetner Ice has probably 80% of the games played on TV. I get to watch LOTS of hockey. HNIC is fun sometimes too.

  40. Didn’t see the Gomez fight (the web thing didn’t work for most of the first). Drury came in second, but didn’t get pummeled. Was nige that he went after an enforcer that had just taken a run at Jager. Courage. Shanney won his.

  41. Was “nice” [fatfingered] that he (Drury) went after an enforcer (Cote?) that had just taken a run at Jager.

    Shanney didn’t pummel the guy he fought either, but definately landed more/better shots tha the other guy.

  42. Thought it was Cote? But whoever it was he had definatley just taken a run at Jager and was a bigger guy that Drury is, but then again that is about 3/4 of the league too.

    The Strudwick fight was more of a clutch fest.

  43. Good game…Just someone should tell the Flyers that if they’re going to be the reincarnate of the Broad Street Bullies, they’d better learn to fight. From what I saw, they lost just about every one. Orr KICKED SMITH’S ASS. Then Shanny kicked it again. Hilarious. If you’re getting your jock handed to you buy a 39-year-old guy who doesn’t even drop the gloves much anymore, the best policy is to avoid fighting altogether.

    Announcers: Worst ever. I could hardly sit through thier BS.

    NHL Center Ice: I don’t know if it was just this broadcast or what, but it was horrible. Quality of the image was good, but they spent more time showing the butt-ass Cryer fans than they did showing replays. If the games are like that during the regular season, this service will crash and burn.

    DAWES: He earned a spot on the team, IMO, with that redirect. Unfortunately, it’ll probably be at the expense of Dubinsky, who I also feel should be with this club. In truth, Blair Betts could end up soon on the outside looking in.

    Another player who was very visible again(in a good way) was TYUTIN. He’s skating with assertivness and authority, definitely looking more offensive. Me likes what I see.

    One guy I really haven’t been impressed with so far has been DRURY. I know it’s preseason and a lot of people say Dru comes on when the action heats up. But I thought for sure he’d make more of a splash. Frankly, I’d like to see him with Jagr and Hossa, instead of Straka.

    Overall, AWESOME team, AWESOME effort. Good things are ahead, for sure.

  44. TDCHI

    “NHL Center Ice: I don’t know if it was just this broadcast or what, but it was horrible. Quality of the image was good, but they spent more time showing the butt-ass Cryer fans than they did showing replays. If the games are like that during the regular season, this service will crash and burn.”

    100% true. This service could be incredible but it is just very unpolished. We need a clock to watch and replays of the significant action, at the very least.

    Jagr looks to be skating strong and moving around well in the zone and drawing attention to himself and then looking to distribute the puck, but he does look sloppy with the puck as well. That pass D to D pass he tried that got intercepted was awful, but it was also well played by that guy. Gomez, looks to be moving well but I agree, very quiet.

    I’m impressed with Drury so far although tonight was strange. You’d think he knows the rules there and had to know he was taking himself out for almost 1/3 of the game. Either way, it’s good to see him go to bat for Jags, and /i think he looks very good so far. I’ve been a Drury doubter but, I’m very excited about him.

  45. tdchi, you mean, this is what we’re gonna get with the nhl center ice online?? The dam scoreboard feeds??? OMG this stinks.
    I hope you’re wrong.

  46. Personally I would look at trading Gomez before everyone figures out what a huge bust he is.

    *I’ve* been saying this all along, stop copying me yenner.

  47. czechthemout!!!!! on

    the person or persons that should not be on this team are malik and hossa,hollweg.the kids really showed them tonight.this defense would look alot better without malik and strudwick in the lineup.Drury is really a heart and soul player.gomez looked good.dubinsky in somewhat limited action scored and was very effective.clearley should be the third line center.Dawes showed that he belongs.staal is already the third or fourth best dman oon the team,just a little more expierience UP HERe, NOT with hartford.

  48. Anyone concerned that Prucha’s roster spot is in jeopardy? After last night’s game, Callahan pretty much replaced him on the PP unit, Dawes took his spot at even strength. With the NYR’s continued dedication to Marcel Hossa, I wonder if Prucha is now the odd man out.

  49. too boo thanks i saw that last night but apparently now when you try to go there from nhl.com it goes to the newer site

  50. ORR Punch Survivor....Barely!!! on


    Hell f’n No…He wont go back to the fourth line. He’s gonna be on the 3rd and possibly 2nd.

    Ive been saying i want Hollweg gone…but if he can agitate like he’s been doing, then i want him here…as long as he throws heavy hits and injures guys left and right….with clean hits though.

  51. ORR Punch Survivor....Barely!!! on

    I was looking at the stat sheet…

    There was no Gomez fight…he didnt even get a roughing call…So im guessing it never happened..

    Gomez, Shanny, and Girardi had assists, Mara had 2 assists

    Dubi, Dawes, and Staal had the goals.

  52. Here is the kind of thing I am talking about on this blog…

    “Straka, Gomez, and Jagr look very expendable.”

    The idiot who wrote that either doesn’t know the meaning of the word “expendable”, is too drunk or high when he is writing on this blog, or is just a total moron. I cannot figure out which (or all 3 maybe)?

    That same person (with maybe the stupidest blog name ever, btw) says, “Maybe we should trade Straka to make room for Dawes?” Is anyone else up for having the webmaster just ban that idiot’s comments? Come on. That person is on this particular page of blog postings maybe a dozen times (and countless others if the same person is using a few aliases on this page, highly possible) and that person’s commentary is really an insult to anyone with half a hockey brain.

    Sam, ban that punk’s comments. They are useless.

  53. Newman he’s not a fan and he posts just to annoy and complain. He’s the Devils’ & Fishsticks’ advocate thru tearing down anything the NYR do, and putting down any fan that supports what they are doing. Thankfully his priorities & ideas are not Sather’s.

  54. New Newman – I thought Yenner’s most recent incarnation of a handle was actually mildy humorous, of course taken out of context with his hackneyed claims that Jagr’s over the hill and of course, the ‘trade Gomez’ comments.

    Yenner: I’m not sure what preseason you were watching but Gomez seemed like one of the better players out there in all four games I watched. Straka seemed decent as well. Jagr is the only one that seemed a bit invisible. But I wouldn’t take this as he’s washed up. JJ will be back with a vengence once he aclimates to his new pivot. That might take a few games, seeing as though he’s skated the better part of two years with the same guys…

    Frankly, I think the whole kids cluster will be solved next season when Straka, Shanny and posibly even JJ depart. Also, Avery and Hossa will both be UFAs at seasons’ end. So if Dubinsky and Dawes don’t play prominent roles on this team, they’re both VERY young and will certainly get a fair chance next season, if not sooner with injuries.

    LAST NIGHT: I don’t know who is claiming GOMEZ fought. By my count it was Orr, Dury, Strudwick and Shanahan. And the only guy that didn’t utterly beat the piss out of the Flyer fighter was Drury. Like I said before, if the Flyers are going to be the “tough guys” on the block, they better take Jessiman’s cue and get a boxer to give them lessons. Otherwise they’re nothing more than a cheap-shotting team that clearly looks like they’re trying to injure players.

  55. “don’t know who is claiming GOMEZ fought. By my count it was Orr, Dury, Strudwick and Shanahan. And the only guy that didn’t utterly beat the piss out of the Flyer fighter was Drury”

    Strudwick was more interested in hugging.

    “they better take Jessiman’s cue and get a boxer to give them lessons. ”

    it sure helped him, lol. Hockey fighting is no boxing, they all need to attend Boogard’s goon classes instead.

    “Frankly, I think the whole kids cluster will be solved next season when Straka, Shanny and posibly even JJ depart.”

    if they depart, they will sign new replacement UFAs.

    “Yenner: I’m not sure what preseason you were watching but Gomez seemed like one of the better players out there in all four games I watched. Straka seemed decent as well. Jagr is the only one that seemed a bit invisible.”

    Gomez looked good for a grand total of half a game. Straka has been beyond invisible. Jagr doesn’t look like the same player, seems to lack any passion.

  56. loser would be what the NYR would be following your skewed point of view. As usual you state non-facts as facts. Take a vote on who agrees with more than 10% of what you post. In your mind there is a conspiracy of one. Let’s find out so you get a glimpse of reality. One thing is consistent, that’s you being way off base just to be off base. My vote is your basically clueless on what the NYR should do this season. ANYONE ELSE AGREE? Of course you’ll believe only one person is posting with different names, but that’s your MO.So take everybodies name & post they agree with you.

  57. tdchi – don’t be so sure Straka will be gone next yr. I know the kid fanatics want that to be the case. I certainly hope not. He’s a very valuable member of this organization on the pp, pk and 5-5 offense and defense.

  58. “”Gomez looked good for a grand total of half a game. Straka has been beyond invisible. Jagr doesn’t look like the same player, seems to lack any passion.””

    It’s the preseason and none of those guys are fighting for a spot. They are bored. Give them the benefit the doubt here and don’t be so quick to write them off.

  59. ORR Punch Survivor....Barely!!! on


    Shanny was bored against the Devils…Which you bitched about.

    That’s how pre season is…sometimes vets show up, sometimes they dont. Every team had a star player not really playing during a game. It doesnt mean anything.

  60. well so far , not much agreement with the devil’s advocate. Keep plugging to find more to knock guys down, very constructive criticism. Little is good or ok, very original. Is Joel L a NYR yet? Trade Gomez straight up.

  61. Kid fanatics? How about old, infirm, washed-up, faking it journeymen and veterans fanatics? How about those living in 2003 in 2007, who don’t know the difference? How about Pittsburgh having the nerve to promote teenagers to the NHL, and who do those kids think they are, stepping on the ice and taking over the sport?

    I just love it when the oldies but goodies lovers say: “Yes, but those Pittsburgh kids are really talented,” in the context of it really isn’t fair to the Rangers to point out how talented other teams’ young players are, as the Rangers don’t have prospects that talented and precocious.

    I don’t want to hear this “kid fanatics” crap, anymore. There is more than enough old, dead wood on this Rangers team to recall about five of the recently dispatched, so called kids, who are really talented young men ready for the big time – except management and its legion of suck-up fans are gutless to an extreme and can’t see beyond their noses or beyond breakfast, tomorrow.

    Maybe the ever-popular Strudwick should run for Mayor – since “personality,” in lieu of ability, seems to be a requisite for a roster spot, around here.

  62. I’m gonna name my next puppy dog, “STRUDWICK.” Strudwick the puppy – got to like it. “Here, Strudwick, here boy – that’s a good puppy!”

  63. Robby don’t forget to take your meds. Then check the ages of guys on the NYR, then show who is close to Crosby, Malkin, or J Staal in talent. You sound like you’re having a puppy.

  64. Bonfire give me a break – Strudwick will be sitting most games in the stands. I know you don’t want Shanny here. But now you and your ilk also want core players like Straka and Rozy gone to make room for another kid or 5. There will be several rookies on the team this yr (Cally, Girardi, and prob 2 of the following 3 Staal, Dawes, and Dubinsky) maybe all 3. You act like a player doesn’t get any development if they don’t play in the NHL on October 4th. I really wish you would root for a different team (still not convinced you don’t).

    Also we can’t have too many small players who play the same game. Dawes, Prucha, Cally will be hard to get all three in the top 9 forwards.

    And Pittsburgh’s youth are mostly top 3-4 in the whole draft. We have noone like Sid the Kid, Malkin and their Staal. So to compare our youth to their’s is crazy.

    By your method of approx 5 young players at least at age 18 per yr, by the time a guy got to 23-24 you would look to replace them or there would be no room for that yrs 18 yr olds.

    BTW – I would have used Logan’s run fanatics but that was Colorado Mark’s so I used kid fanatics and that is certainly appllicable to yourself and several others.

  65. Also, let’s not ignore the over the hill veterans that Pittsburgh is carrying. For all of the teenagers, they sure are an old team.

  66. Robby Bonfire on

    My point, exactly, imagination – it is getting late to call most of our prospects “kids.” Christ, Sanguinetti, at 19, would be up now, were he with Pittsburgh, and would have a fine rookie season. Here, he will be lucky if he comes up by 23.

  67. Robby Bonfire on

    I speak for myself, BOZO, I don’t have an “ilk.” Go put on your checkered jacket and go shoot a rabbit or a partridge.

  68. Robby Bonfire on

    “Still not convinced I root for the Rangers. Convincing you that “A” precedes “B” would be a massive undertaking.

  69. Robby Bonfire on

    DUMP STRAKA, SHANAHAN, MALIK, STRUDWICK, MARA, BETTS, and HOLLWEG, and bring back Sauer, LIffiton, Sanguinetti and every other talented young player just killing time down on the farm – NOW! (National Organization of WINNERS!)

  70. Robby Bonfire on

    Yes, we have a quorum, Pittsburgh has too many greybeards. This is a byproduct of last year’s GM change, there. Craig Patrick was light years a better visionary than the new, myopic hack. And to think Patrick was originally affiliated with the Rangers, in the tradition of his family, the “First Family” in Ranger organizational history, what with what Lester, Muzz, and Lynn contributed on the ice and in the front office.

    I don’t know what Craig Patrick is doing these days, but how great it would be to bring him back as GM. He would be a perfect fit for keeping the minors to the majors pipeline flowing. Not bad at drafting prospects, either.

    The new guy in Pittsburgh is starting to look like a Sather clone. This is good for the Rangers, not so good for Pittsburgh, except that they certainly have the replacement parts in the system. I will not defend the Pens adding too many scrap heap rejects to their roster – it’s as dumb as it gets.

  71. Robby Bonfire on

    O.k., kids, with the new season just about upon us, I am all geared up, and all psyched up to share with you – my legion of adoring fans – my estimable Fibonacci Clutch Goal Scoring Even-Strength Numbers, for yet another time around the block. Understanding that you, “Strudwick The Puppy,” and Secretariat are all “chomping at the bit,” (har-har), as I do, trust me, I won’t disappoint you – only the old guys will disappoint you with the “results” they get on the ice, so be prepared to defend them and burrow-in for a long winter and a long season.

    Your friend, Bonfire – the Islanders fan, lol


    Just cause that load of crap is taking forever to pop out, dont take it out on the blog.

    My question to you Robby…is..


    You sound like an idiot, if you and Yenner and who ever the fugg else hate the NYR “oldies”, and want all those young farm boys, then JUST WATCH THE WOLFPACK, this way you can never run out of watching teens, and young boys. You are a weirdo.

    The way you talk about little farm boys, creeps me the fugg out. Enough already.

  73. Why don’t you just cut yourself with your Fibonacci numbers instead? It will fit your disappointment when possiby none of Dawes, Staal, Dubinsky, Anisimov make the team.

  74. Hello all, just a quickie…Was at the bar with the upstairs bar outdoor across the street from Penn Station Saturday nite, (the name escapes me at the moment), around Midnight, after the last pre-season game–getting ready to take the NJ transit back home.

    As my party and I walked out the front door, I saw a familiar looking smallish gentleman in a suit, with a distinct hockey-like cut up face, standing in the middle of a small group that was getting ready to enter.

    To my surprise, the smallish gent I saw was Chris Drury. To my greater surprise, I soon saw that he was surrounded by fellow Blueshirt newbie Scott Gomez, Jason Strudwick and behind them, strolls King Henrik, looking spiffy in his crisp suit and typically well coiffed ‘do.

    Like an idiot, I yelled, “Go Rangers!”, first to Drury and Gomez, who looked a little surprised, then to Henrik, who was the only one who smiled and he was the only one who looked like he actually enjoyed being recognized.

    Colton Orr walked outside, away from the group to make a cell call–but the key thing was that it was great to see this core bunch of Rangers hanging out together on a Saturday nite–a little pre-season Bonding can only do our boys good!

    Well, I continued on my way into the NorthWest entrance to Penn Sation, ready to walk down the steps, when to my even greater surprise, riding up to the top of the escalator comes a tall gent with a strikingly familiar countenance–another hockey face appeared– and there was Brendan Shanahan, coming up the escalator with Sean Avery close in tow. Again, I yelled, “Go Rangers!”–Shanny smiled; Avery looked mildly annoyed. I can see why guys want to punch him in the face–it’s just the vibe he gives off–which ain’t a bad thing if he’s on your team!

    Anyway, I thought it was cool that all of them got together to hang out on a pre-season Saturday nite to do a little bonding and chemistry building. Hope it bodes well for the season to come…”Go Rangers!”

  75. I know who I want as Bobby G’s brother Booby G , and he can do the stunts for real. Starting with the apple on his head.

    Sanguetti is ready for the NHL? ABSURD!

    No answer for the Penguins? Shero has been the GM, PatricK was in 2005. Shero resigned & traded for old guys & a goon. But if the NYR do it , it’s not ok. DOUBLE STANDARDS!

    complain, complain, complain….go play fantasy hockey….

  76. How much better was Greschner at 19, than Sanguinetti? Greschner stepped right into the NHL and immediate stardom. Sorry you have no faith in young phenoms and a vacuum for knowledge of league history when it comes to the success of literally dozens of under-20 players over the years.

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