Still on hiatus


I’m still on vacation but at least back in front of a computer and I see not everyone in the comment section has been on their best behavior.

Maybe it’s the heat…or maybe some of you need to make better use of your time. We’ll revisit that soon.

Meanwhile, the Rangers are apparently interested in Michael Peca, or at least Michael Peca is interested in the Rangers. I like Peca, always have. But again, I’d prefer to have seen the Rangers hold on to Matt Cullen.

In other news, for those of you from the immediate area, check out “our impressive coverage of the Empire State Games”: I wish I could take credit for some of it, but I can’t. Like I said, I’m on vacation.

Until later…

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  1. I am one ranger fan who is not for getting Mike Pecca. Pecca is past his prime and has been injury prone for a few years now. I want to see the rangers sign avery to a multi year contract because he is one of the reasons the rangers turned around last years season.

  2. ORR Kicks Yin Yang....( Again ) on

    I still dont know if i want Peca or not….Like i said before….The one thing that makes me want NYR to sign him…is his optimism….He really believes he’ll help any team he signs with….

    But i dont know….All i know…is if he signs with TOR….TOR is just gonna be tougher….

    Thats a team i dont look fowward to versing……Sundin…Blake..Tucker..Mccabe..Kaberle..Toskala…Foget about it..

    Hopefully Avery kicks Tuckers a** and Orr kicks Belaks a**

  3. I agree. I would defietely take Cullen over Peca any day. Peca has never really lived up to his potential and has been traded many, many times- there must be a reason for that. Too bad Sather bumped up Cullen’s contract to more than it was worth.

  4. Is Peca the last remaining piece. I doubt it. So I say “pass”. (I’m of the belief that a defenseman is the keystone we need.

    IMHO we should give the youngsters in camp a chance to grab that 3rd line center position. If someone steps up… great! (could make for a really interesting year… esp. if Callahn and Prucha are on those wings)… if not we can fill from within the current roster or shop for a 3rd line man down the road. Whoever that may be, may not be as good as Peca… but they won’t be as much of a risk either (hopefully) and should come cheaper.

  5. ORR Kicks Yin Yang....( Again ) on


    I agree that we need 1 more D man……Is Jovonovski the answer…???

  6. I personally say no also to Jovo, he makes to much money. I think he makes 7 mil per year and is getting up there in age. I do agree we need to improve our defense.

  7. Colorado Mark on

    Orr- I don’t know, I kind of disagree with your reasons for wanting Peca. How many guys that are looking for a contract DON’T think they can make a team better. What are they supposd to say? “I’m just looking for someone to pay me so I can coast the rest of the season. Truth is, my knees are shot and this is probably the last contract I’ll sign.” You sign a guy if YOU think he can help a team, not the other way around.

    I don’t think his health history is worth dealing with and I’d much rather give a kid a chance with Drury, Gomez and Betts probably taking most of that ice time anyway. Besides, aren’t we in danger of becoming a failed rotiserie league team with all these new players? Dubinsky would be new, but at least he’s not new to the organization. Peca would make three of our four centers brand new to the organization.

  8. Colorado Mark on

    I think we should be done with adding new players. We have 9 NHL D-men AND Staal. Lets see how training camp pans out first.

  9. Colorado Mark,
    I agree, at this point lets sign avery and hossa and go into training camp and see what we have and even start the season and see what develops and go from there.

  10. Orr. I don’t know about Jovo.

    I’m inclined to agree w/ Colorado Mark. Jovo’s price may be too high for our situation.

    Let’s see what happens at training camp. I’ve never seen Marc Staal play… but in all that I’ve heard and read he sounds like the real deal. If he is and can bring it this year… we may have our last piece.

    We’ve made a ton of moves this off season (some great (hopefully), some… we’ll have to see about). But one thing is for sure… this team will look very different this season.

    Let’s see what happens on the ice as opposed to on paper.


    Agree 100%

    Believing Peca’s sales pitch is akin to picking up the phone to order something from a Ron Popeil infomercial at 3AM. *Buyer beware!* Cullen had the same optimism which he of course flip-flopped when the trade dropped. These guys all have their own little campaigns going. I’m still not sold on Drury being completely psyched to be here despite his words, while you can’t fake a smile like Gomez had across his face at the press conference.

    Peca *stinks* of a guy looking to coast in a Blueshirt for his final pay days. Sorry buddy, not here. Not anymore. This is the new stuff.

    And yes, I am skeptical of Jovo too. But we need Peca like we need a hole in our heads.

  12. Doodie Machetto on

    Salted: in response to your post on the last thread:

    I think Burke will wat the full 7 days he has to make his decision, but in the meantime, he will get on Nieds and Selanne to make up their minds.

    Otherwise, Lowe gets what he wants, and is an idiot. I’m seriously starting to think he may be one of the worst GMs in the league. Everytime I see his name in the news, I think to myself “How is this guy not fired yet?”

  13. ORR Kicks Yin Yang....( Again ) on


    I definently agree with you….Like i said on a previous post….He sounds obtimistic…but at the same time he sounds desperate….

    Jovo…i dont know about him either….I like Mara….and im a forgiving guy….I wont be as hard on Malik as i usually am…But then again i kinda want kaspar to be phenominal in camp and make the team cause we can use his energy with the loos or Orty…and Hollywood hitting like an 8 year old….

    But i really want Staal in the lineup…..

    Does anyone know the day Training Camp opens???

  14. We have enough defensemen already, and they are good enough at playing defense, maybe because they don’t produce any offense. At the worst, we could waive/demote somebody who is not playing well and replace him with Staal, who will most likely begin in Hartford due to our eight guys for six spots predicament, which would include Kaspar, but make Strudwick the seventh defenseman. A good way to alleviate this would be move Pöck or Struds to the fourth line wing if Jessiman or Moore aren’t gonna be with the Rangers because it is useless having Dawes/Prucha/Hossa there. Or, if one of those guys is there, the converted defensman can be a backup along with the Hollweg/Orr half that is not playing. Then Kaspar could possibly be used as the seventh defenseman. There has got to be a trade coming down the line, though, even if all this happens.

  15. And, oh yeah, no Peca. That would just throw a wrench in any flexible plans, like filling center based on whether a prospect wing or center wins in camp. If a wing makes the team, Avery moves to center, and obviously if a center makes it, that player would be the third line man.

  16. Oh man, I just found out animated faces are available on the Giants blog, but not here.

    I think those picks Lowe has to give up would be from next season, which would be a *really big* mistake with that talent coming in. Ducks will have a top 5 pick of a franchise player most likely!

  17. I have no interest in Peca. He’s too injury prone, he’s not as fast a center as Cullen was, he doesn’t produce numbers, and I feel he would just be over paid to underachieve.

  18. Colorado Mark on

    We have 9 D-Men:
    Malik Rozsival
    Tyutin Girardi
    Mara Pock
    Hutchinson Strudwick

    and Staal makes 10. Not to mention Liffiton & Baranka chomping at the bit.

    Bench: Dawes
    Can we only carry 7 D-men or will we carry 8? No room for Dubinsky if we carry 8 D-men. I still think we will unload a D-man besides Kaspar. Hutch is the one enigma. Who knows whatthe brass plans with him are. Figure Strudwick is the definite 7th D who can also play forward. Pock can do that as well. I don’t think management is planning on Staal starting the season with the big club. We’d have to lose Kaspar AND one of Hutch or Pock.

  19. a casual observer on

    I hope Hossa gets a big payday in arbitration so we can get rid of him :)

  20. PLEASE , no peca.. {Stop snickering}

    Seriously, build from within now after our 2 huge free agent signings!

  21. Peca has also made it clear all along that his first choice would be to play for Sabres.

    Who needs a guy that doesn’t want to wholeheartedly be here?
    He never even mentioned the Rangers as a possibility until he knew Buffalo had no use for him-

  22. ORR Kicks Yin Yang....( Again ) on


    I gotta disagree wih you

    Gary Roberts was dying to get traded to OTT….then he just settled for PIT a team where he was a fossil to all of them….and come playoff time…he was the best…most physical and everything…

    Not saying that Peca is the same way….but you never know…

    Hopefully Peca does something soon…..I figured after Souray….we wouldnt get all these rumors again….but sure enough…there back

  23. Orr

    Gary Roberts was a good fit for Pittsburgh because a tough veteran leader figure was wanted to mold the team’s youth.

    With a healthy Avery here and Peca being injury prone, this team doesn’t NEED a guy like him and for the money he’ll want, who wants to take the risk?

    This blog mid last year was ALL about GIVING OUR YOUTH A SHOT.

    Now with what we did in the offseason combined with a few young prospects, I think this team has more than it needs now to make a good run.

    The only open ends, if any are a very physical good defenseman and our back-up goaltender situation-

  24. Orr – You figured we wouldn’t get rumors? We’re still getting Jovonovski rumors from that moron at Hockey Buzz. And then, as you said earlier, he says, if they sign Peca, Avery’s a goner; what a dope!

  25. Sam, are you out covering the “Tour of Mecca”?

    I understand that the French are going to keep sabotaging riders until they finally get a French winner.

    In America, we have the presumption of innocence. I never knew how important that was until I began to see what is happening in europe. One Brit paper says that the boy’s name of “Mohammad” is overtaking “Jack” and Michael as the number one name for newborn males (if you count the different spellings of Mohamad, sic, etc).

    European high school text books are removing the Holocaust so as not to offend Muslims (!) but it is a crime, punishable by jail, to deny it happened. Huh?

    It’s nice to be arguing about Malik and Pecca and have the freedom to write what we want…even if some here have been naughty!

    Makes you glad to be in the USA doesn’t it?

    long live our freedom!

  26. Salted –

    First off, love the link. Nothing like a healthy Trey circa 1997 except maybe a healthy Trey circa 1995.

    Secondly, I have to say I think your worries about Drury are probably not going to be issues. He’s a guy of few words, he’s not emotional off the ice at all – even after he killed us in game 5, he was sipping from a water bottle, not smiling and had little to say. He did in fact grow up very close to NYC – close to where I’m from, and indeed, the Rangers are everyone’s hockey team here in Connecticut, especially in Fairfield County (where Trumbull is). I also have heard from several sources that he turned down as much as $10 million extra (one more year and an extra $500K per year) to come to NY, and i have little doubt that LA offered him that – and in fact, Buffalo said they were willing to match. And his interview with Deb Kaufman, where he said at first he was worried when he’d heard Gomez signed because he thought he “wouldn’t be in the mix” says it all.

  27. Question- Why is it thought that we need another defense? This core was basically 7 seconds from the Eastern Conference FINALS last year. 7 seconds. 7.3 to be exact. Sorry to stir up the bad memories BUT when you replace the weakest link in my opinion, Karel Rachunek, with what could be a top shutdown d-man in Marc Staal, why is it thought we need to add a d-man? At the end of the season it was “we need a centers”. Well thats what we have now. 2 of the best in the game. We were 7.3 seconds from the Conference Finals with most of our defensive unit in tact and only getting better. Toots and Girardi are only gonna get better. Our defense will be fine the way it is. Do you guys realize the Rangers were close to the top of the NHL in GA after the All Star break? If the team meshes as it did last year, what is saying we cant go to the Stanley Cup Finals and have a shot at winning it?

  28. Hey everyone. I’ve been M.I.A. because my company installed a new firewall that blocks just about anything and everything, including this great website. So unfortunately, my time will be cut back a ton on here.

    No to Peca. Save the money and give Dubinsky a shot.

  29. czechthemout!!!!! on

    peca=stupid stupid move.he was washed up three years ago.

    so now without any further adeu,at center,#54,Braaandon Dubinsky.

  30. PGHAS

    Good stuff! I want to like Drury, I just wonder about those stiff guys sometimes. The Rangers seem to have a real loose thing going on in the locker room, especially under Tom. I really hope Dru figures himself into the mix appropriately. But thanks for your info, it does put my mind to ease.

    Re: Trey
    Yeah man, you just cannot touch him in the early to mid-nineties. When he played with something to prove you could almost hear the skulls bursting in the crowd. I hope he can get his act together and stay smart. Maybe write some decent music again. MAYBE figure out a way to get the other together playing music together in some capacity down the line before it really is too late. Not holding my breath at all for that though.

    *Jagr says:* For a good time check out a brain splattering Phish rendition of While My Guitar Gently Weeps in the link above…

  31. Colorado Mark,
    Your line combos pointed out an interesting dilemma for Renney, assuming that Avery (please!!) Hossa are resigned. Hossa would be most effective on Jags line presuming he plays the way he was prior to injury-and I think he is capable of that. But that leaves Straka in a checking role that does not necessarily play to his strengths- though the thought of the speed on that line is interesting. Almost becomes a 2a line rather than a traditional checking line.
    Which leaves Dubinsky out of the mix, though I’d love to see what he can do.
    And Dawes is not cracking this line-up..might be time to see what we can get for him.
    And there’s no way in hell Jessiman is making this team…
    If Kasper is ready and his head is on straight, I would love to see his physical play back there again, instead of bringing in Jovo. And I’d love to see Pock get some consistent playing time and if it means Staal has to at least start in Hartford, it will do nothing but help him adjust to the pro game and grind..

  32. back to hockey…

    Peca will want a lot of money. Is Peca better than Cullen? maybe 3 or 4 years ago, but not now.

    also, I am not a big fan of “chemistry” when a lot of critics (see rodent) play this card when they do not like a trade or UFA purchase (Gomez) but…..with Peca, we now have 3 or 4 de facto Captains.
    1. Shanny natural, de facto captain
    2. Drury can certainly captain the ship, but would yield to Shanny: awe, age, experience
    3. Jagr Not really a captain. Had to be goaded into shootout. mood swings/English
    4. Pecca? nope. we don’t need it. I would rather have kept Cullen.

    The 3rd line center spot MUST be won by a kid. We don’t need Peca and I don’t think he will ever return to where he was 3 years ago…(good post czechtheout)

    Also, don’t count out Jessiman just yet. We all know that power forwards take a long time to develop and Hartford was all about speedy small guys. Under new leadership, give this kid (well, not so young) TONS of ice time to make it or be done. If he steps up and plays a good physical smart Graves like game, promote. If not, he is done and we move on.

    Other than cutting Malik loose (and Mara) and MAYBE picking up a strong stay at home defenseman who knows how to punish without taking stupid penalties (trade Montoya, Mara, Malik) for this unknown d-man) we have a solid squad if kids are going to make the team (Staal, Callahan, Dubinski, etc).

    Can the kid from Russia come to camp or is he stuck there?

    Better dead than red. DEFECT!

  33. a casual observer on

    I’ll join the chorus of NO to Peca. Dubinsky for 3rd line.Noto Hossa also. Give Dawes, Beyers, bouret,and Jessiman a strong chance to make this team. Most of them and a few others will outplay Hossa in preseason IMO.

  34. I want Peca IF Betts is traded away. Peca doesn’t want more than a 1 year 1.25 million. And yes he is better than Cullen in many ways.

  35. At 1m Peca is a risk well worth taking. I’m all for giving Dubinsky a shot to beat out Betts on 4th line but we need a responsible defensive center with offensive ability on the 3rd line. Peca fits perfectly and also bolsters the team’s overall grit factor.

  36. Robby Bonfire on

    Peca is a BACKWARD step in the plan to continue to add pieces to a winning Stanley Cup puzzle in 2-3 years. He just retards the progress of Dubinsky, who, given the chance, would probably have a more productive year.

    Peca the final piece in a Stanley Cup puzzle this coming season? Sure, like Madden, and Holik, and Sykora, and Ozolinsch and a couple dozen other bums we have been suckered for a swan song payday here during the Sather era. Just give the entire concept a rest, Sather. Or else go out and get Tkaczuk and Bondra and unretire Brett Hull, and be done with the charade as to what constitutes your kind of hockey club.

  37. Robby wrong, both can be done. Peca is a good player in the proper role at 3rd line and Dubinsky should get a shot but he may not be ready. At 1m Peca is a low risk, sensible option.

  38. a casual observer July 28th, 2007 at 11:16 am
    I’ll join the chorus of NO to Peca. Dubinsky for 3rd line.Noto Hossa also. Give Dawes, Beyers, bouret,and Jessiman a strong chance to make this team. Most of them and a few others will outplay Hossa in preseason IMO.

    This among many other fine posts. 2,000 Frenchmen can’t be wrong.

    Peca is wrong for us. I am also in favor of getting rid of Malik (surprise, surprise) Hossa (8 goals in 11 games, 5 goals in 70), Mara (though, his shot could help, big $).

    Avery must keep his head in the game and not take stupid penalties.

    I am in favor of giving Jessiman a good look in camp, and then a LOT of minutes in Hartford; hopefully a promotion. 3rd line center from within.

    we are all starting to get bored and repeat ourselves.

    Peca: too many chiefs, not enough native americans.

  39. There’s not even a chance of Peca coming to New York, he recently came out and said that he would rather go to Buffalo, and thats if Toronto doesn’t resign him, which they want to.

  40. ORR Kicks Yin Yang....( Again ) on

    Forget about Peca…Dubinsky and all centers…Were not gonna get Peca…TOR is gonna dump Raycroft and re sign Peca….In my opinion…

    Right now what im more interested in is…..Who will be on the 4th line….

    Im hoping Dawes doesnt get his shot…..Give someone else the chance…..

    We cant have Hollweg – Betts – Orr

    And yes…i know that prospect would get alot of offensive chances with Orr Betts or Hollweg as his linemate…but still….

    Which member of the farm could take that 4th line role….

  41. Interesting thought…

    Have any players at the NHL level ever been a utility player i.e. play offense and defense in the same game, or be available as a forward or D-man?

    How would Pock be as a 4th liner on Offense and our 7th Defenseman at the same time?
    Probably not practical, but an interesting thought….

  42. By doing what was mentioned above, we would always have a rotating spot for young guys from Hartford to fill in on offense and get a look on the 4th line.

  43. Peca can’t be any good , that’s why Toronto wants to resign him. The logic here is kids yeah, vets no. The reasons for not getting Peca are nonsense. Having to trade Cullen didn’t mean the NYR are better because of it. They need a 3rd line center. Dubinsky MIGHT be ready. Straka could be a good choice. Sather needs to figure it out, but the constant give the Hartford kids a chance is rebuild mentality. Show me a kid on Hartford who has ripped up the AHL. That means none are being hurt by still playing there & should benefit from it. The NHL is the major leagues. You like rookies, great, but it doesn’t make them the correct choice.Renney is not big on kids, he likes experienced players, and so does Sather. No cap , Cullen is still here not Dubinsky. Peca can fit in a cap clause. Which way they go is up in the air…First things first, Avery & Hossa have to get decided on.That will be this upcoming weeks news.Then the D & a center will be next.

  44. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE stop ANY talk of rotating young guys from Hartford to fill in on offense and get a look on the fourth line. Getting 6-8 minutes on the fourth line is a total waste of time. Look at Dawes. The first month of last season on the fourth line on Broadway was a waste. He played so little time, then it took him another month to get his skating legs back in Hartford. Then he was the Wolf Pack’s best player the last 30 games and the only one ready to play in the playoffs. Dubinsky can’t be a fourth-line center skating between extras. He either has to make the team as a third-liner or return to Hartford and play 20-25 minutes a game in all situations. Ditto for Staal, Bourret, Pyatt and any of the other youngsters, unless there are injuries, of course. Rangers could still use an A defensemen, but that isn’t possible unless Malik and/or Mara are part of a deal to open cap space. Let training camp and preseason games dictate the third and fourth lines, though preseason can be misleading because there are often marginal players competing against marginal players until the last few games. But that’s the only logical way, not a bunch of talk. Here’s hoping for continued improvement and more development in Hartford. Gernander and Daignealt, with continued help from Schoenfeld on the periphery, should fare well, though the Wolf Pack will be younger than ever.

  45. ORR Kicks Yin Yang....( Again ) on

    Im watching some clips of the 05 – 06 season…..NYR should Straka and Prucha together…..They were looking good together….I dont think they played all that watch together in 06 – 07…

    But it useless to go over line combos…..Until camp starts….All i hope is that…IF we get Hossa…he plays on the 1st line….

  46. Well said BB
    Also, the third line center needs to be physical and carry enough speed to match up defensively against other team’s 1/2 lines. Dubinsky needs to win this job. Guys on the fourth line are hungry journeymen, or enforcers. Regarding Peca, this would be a complete waste of cap space. The only certainty is that he would injure a knee and spend significant time on the disabled list.

  47. BB

    I think you are misunderstanding the logic of what I am suggesting.

    The fact that I think players should get a LOOK on the 4th line doesn’t mean that they should remain on the 4th line.
    It is just to see that they can play responsibly on an NHL level.

    If they live up to that, then they should be tested out on 2nd, 3rd lines etc…

    Dawes last year didn’t get the time he needed to showcase what he’s got (neither did Dubinsky) and having that extra spot always open would enable players to come up and down for extended periods of time.

  48. What’s wrong with rolling 4 lines with a 4th line of Dawes-Dubinsky-Callahan. Even in limited ice time those 3 together can show what they are capable of. It’s only wasteful to have these guys play 4th line when it’s one of them and they play with two of Betts, Hollweg, Orr. Play Orr in games he is needed. The other 3 lines:

    Avery-Betts-Prucha (or Peca for Betts)

  49. ORR Kicks Yin Yang....(Again) on

    ROB S

    I wouldnt mind that trade at ALL…

    We get rid of Malik….that would be nice….we get rid of Mara…who i would miss but i wouldnt shed a tear over….and Montoya…well…who knows if he’s the real deal or not…

    Rozsival – Pock
    Tyutin – Girardi
    Staal – Redden

    But of coarse this is hockeybuzz… i wouldnt go crazy over it…

  50. Redden’s salary is same as Jovo’s, but he is signed for only 1 more season, so he might not re-sign with us. So maybe Jovo would be a better choice. Either way both of them are too expensive, if Sather wanted either of them, he shouldn’t have signed both Drury and Gomez to insane contracts.

  51. John M Sather didn’t leave himself alot of choices. He went into it needeing to add a center & a Dman . If last year he had gotten Elias & Chara they probably would have gone further. But this year his situation with Nylander got out of hand. Why he didn’t resign him is up for speculation. The pa cryers fired the 1st shots the week before free agency & continued with the Briere deal which probably upped Gomez & Drury’s demands. That forced him to trade Cullen who he overpaid for because he won the Cup, & all of a sudden he was a 2nd line center. He did the same thing when he signed Holik. But that’s history. If the rumor of getting Redden while shedding Malik & Mara ‘s salary and throwing in Montoya were true , the price sounds high but it’s a possiblity since all 3 D men are UFAs after next season & Montoya will be a RFA. I would think he’d get some picks in that deal, which would be good. But trading a goalie is dangerous, they need insurance behind Lundquist. Peca is still a possblity since he falls under a cap bonus clause. I don’t think Sather will do anything until he decides on Avery & Hossa, and figures out his new cap position this week.

  52. If Sather can land Peca for 1.5 mil per season, he should do it…

    A veteran defensive and face-off specialist like that for the 3rd line Center position is a better option, for a team trying to win it all – then would be playing a youngster like Dubinsky in that role (although I like that kid a LOT!)…

    Anything more than 1.5 mil for Peca would be too much at this point in his career, but apparently according to the Toronto Star, he only wants about half of what he made last year (which was 2.5 mil)…

    The Rangers should sign Peca!

  53. Rob S

    First of all, it was not Eklund that was reporting that rumor. (Not that Eklund is ever right anyway) It is some private poster on Hockeybuzz’s site named TJ Code, who many people say is a fraud…even in the comments below the post.

    Second, where does it ever say, “Mara, Malik, and Montoya” as the ones on the trade block?

  54. I think after the abritration cases of Avery and hossa are settled the rangers will go in to training camp with what they have. I think Pecca will resign with toronto. It makes sense to see what the rangers have and than if needed they can make a trade. Normally it is better to trade during the season because than you won’t have to give up as much than when trading in the off season.

  55. czechthemout!!!!! on

    i said it before,i will say it again.peca was washed up three years more vets are needed on this team from other places.we already have;jagr/straka/shany/gomez/drury/avery/malik/mara/rozy.

    that’s about half the team.that’s enough in my opinion.they need to work young deserving players that are home grown into the line up.we have players in the system who deserve to play.staal,dubinsky,and some others that we all have talked about for many months.

  56. czechthemout!!!!!

    I totally agree, I definately don’t want Pecca and the rangers have enough veteran leadership and should mix there young players with the veterans which gives a good mixture for success because the younger players give energy.

  57. Didn’t one of our jerseys used to say “New York” and not “Rangers?” Or did that switch when the league switched our away jerseys to white?

  58. czech staal , dubinsky & some others, DESERVE to play? Based on what, they’re young & home grown? Now Gomez, Avery, & Rozival are considered old vets. It seems like young fans want young players. I’ve seen many a young guy rushed onto the NYR & fall on their face, who probably would have had a better chance of making it & sticking if they left them in the AHL longer. They’ll be up soon enough. Let Sather, Schoenfeld, & Renney do their jobs unless somebody here thinks they know more than them about all these players.They are far from infallible but all this kid whinning needs a rest.

  59. czechthemout!!!!! on

    i am not a young fan.ihave been watching this team religiously since fact the first game i went to was the giacamin game.i never called gomez,avery,or rozy old vets.icalled them other teams vets.staal deserves a chance to make the as much as hossa has gotten.dubinsky deserves to make the team based on the 6games i saw last year on the rangers and the thirty or more games i saw him play with the pack.also he looked better in those six games than hossa has in his two plus seasons with the rangers.he only played fairly well when he played with jagr.but if you compare them both while playing on the fourth lines than dubinsky was clearley the more effective player.hossa does nothing out there when he is not playing with jagr.and even with jagr the buffulo series showed to me any way that hossa breif spurt of good play was nothing more than an anomaly.

  60. czechthemout!!!!! on

    bklynblue-i am not kid whining.i wan’t the best team out there.we have been down the road of loading the team with mercinairies fact i was a big proponent of using vets before kids.clearley it is a strategy that failed for seven years.i now see that the best and most effective way to create a team is to mix good quality vets and young hungry talent that is willing to go out shift after shift and put out physically.what i am not a fan of is playing scrubs like jward,ahall,jkrog,and mpeca ahead of desreving kids like callahan and girardi and lifiton,and byers,and dubinsky.i find amusing that fans who favor using more kids instead of mercinairies only get ridiculed from some fans who amazingly favor adding a washed up injury prone srub like peca instead of a hungry,fast,tough agressive kid like dubinsky.what if he dooes as well as say a guy like zajac,or perry or getzlaf?wouldn’t that be better than garbadge like peca?and if dubi shows after say 20 games that he is not ready than i am sure they can find a #3 center either from their current or from another team at the deadline.

  61. “I’ve seen many a young guy rushed onto the NYR & fall on their face”

    name at least 4

  62. Christian Dube, the Ferraro twins, Manny Malhortra, Jaime Lundmark, Pavel Brendl, Johan Whitehall, if you like I’ll continue trying to remember guys that went into oblivion. Dan Blackburn was the biggest victim of being rushed into the NHL, but he didn’t fall on his face . He hurt himself by overdoing it to be a NHLer. If you go and look around the league there have been plenty. Patience is sometimes needed and many kids benefit from it. There are people here calling for Jessimen, now there’s guy who really doesn’t deserve it yet & Montoya still needs to improve. What’s the hurry? I’ll say it again, show me a guy in Hartford that has torn up that league.

  63. Brendl never played for Rangers, so how was he rushed?

    Malhotra was just not getting good icetime, otherwise he was very good. Look at Joe Thornton’s production at 18.

    Witehall was 27 when he played here, is that rushed?

    Lundmark was not rushed at all, he simply sucked (BTW he is actually more productive in NHL than Marcel Hossa, but Hossa is bigger and stronger and can hit)

    Ferraro twins got to NHL at around 23 and weren’t given much of a chance. They did great in AHL, got about 15 games in NHL (probably on the 4th line) and were given up.

    I give you Dube, he was not only rushed, but also screwed around with as he was told to bulk up and then told that now he is too slow and needs to get leaner.

    Blackburn was young, but he was excellent, and accidents do happen, could have happened to him whether he started NHL as 18 year-old or 25 year-old.

    So point is if a young player shows he can play there is no harm in letting him play. The only thing I consider “rushed” is when a player between 18 and 21 gets forcefed the icetime because of producing big numbers in juniors or AHL when he clearly isn’t ready.

  64. so basically only Dube was rushed in the last 11 years, the rest either sucked or weren’t given much of a chance or had a career ending injury, but that has nothing to do with being rushed, just look at Cherneski.

  65. John M the NYR in the past weren’t pushing kids they were trading them. They prefered vets and still do but to a lesser extent. Can you name the kids that are tearing it up at Hartford & are being held back from the NHL by the NYR? Or guys that left here because of that and are now good NHL players? The anti vet pro kid mentality can be taken too far, just as the all vet was & some think still is. Blackburn’s injury really had to do with being rushed at 18 & him putting extra pressure on himself, but it could happen to anyone at any time. He probably should have started in the minors. Guys like Crosby are far and few.

  66. I’m sorry, did Johan White hall (pronounced VEE-tuh-hall) actually have some potential future? In fact, of those guys you named, only Manny Malhotra was rushed, and it was because he was the absolute only prospect in the system, so even though Muckler had it right – kid was born to be a third line center and PKer – he was put into position to fail. Every other one of those guys were just lousy picks.

  67. Many we’ll never know because they went to Europe or were not given much chance by other teams. But some are Savard, Armstrong, Malhotra, Lyashenko, Ekman. Recently some good players like Wiseman, Lampman, Weller, Immonen, Dawes, Baranka, Liffiton, Helminen, Montoya, G. Moore

  68. Mark –

    The blue Rangers jerseys were switched to say New York when Fred Shero took over the team in 1978-79 and decided to abandon the clown suits. But within another3-5 years or so the blue ones reverted to say Rangers, as the white ones always did. The original Ranger jersey is the exact blue one they now use with Rangers on it.

  69. Malhotra could have used a year in juniors, but he looked good in NHL and won a spot with his play. But Muckler and later Low had no trust in him, they barely played him, then he lost his confidence.

  70. John M …”Recently some good players like Wiseman, Lampman, Weller, Immonen, Dawes, Baranka, Liffiton, Helminen, Montoya, G. Moore”…. we all like home grown and it’s an extra when they succeed like Lundquist & Prucha, and hopefully Callihan. I thought Immonen deserved more of a shot, some think he fell on his face. Many want to trade Prucha. The NYR have not been the best drafters or developers of talent, but were pretty good at trading guys away who developed into good NHL players ( Amonte, Weight). The 3rd line center spot is somewhat open, but whether Dubinsky is ready just yet is not certain. Right now if I had to choose who for 3rd center in the playoffs next season, I’d lean to Peca or Straka.

  71. Anybody who wants to give up on Hossa just might find out they’ve made a mistake. Most ‘kids’ take 3-5 years to reach their potential in the NHL. Both he & Avery should be resigned. Guess which one’s career potential on TSN is rated as a top six forward & the other a third line agitator.Wanting kids but not having the patience for them to develop doesn’t jive.

  72. czechthemout!!!!! on

    bklynblue-normally you and i are on the same page but dude,
    peca sucks! he has been finished for three years.i would rather have you center the third line than him.straka might be an option if dubinsky shows that he is not ready.but remember they also have tommy pyatt.

  73. Dubinsky looked pretty much ready in pre-season and again when he was called up. I still want Peca if Betts is traded. I can’t imagine winning the Cup with the likes of Betts. We need a center that is able to make plays and provides a physical presence.

  74. Doodie Machetto on

    John M, I can’t believe you are trying to say Malhotra looked good in New York. Maybe in a suit, but not on the ice.

    You mentioned Joe Thornton, but he doesn’t support your argument, he supports the patience route. In Boston, they rushed him out to be some great superstar, and he just wasn’t, it took him a few years to even find his stride. Another example of this is Vinny Lecavalier. Last season was the first season where he really played up to his full potential – in his EIGTH NHL season. I’m willing to bet that if he had one or two years in the AHL, he could’ve been putting up last season’s numbers before the lockout.

    You want an example of a player who could’ve been a star but was rushed by the Rangers? Alexei Kovalev. That’s what rushing gets you.

    BTW, I love how your defense of Lundmark being rushed is that he wasn’t, he’s just bad. Ever consider that being rushed is what made him bad?

    Also, I love how you’re saying “play all of the kids” when six months ago, all we heard was “Is Forsberg a Ranger yet?” Still have that jersey hanging in your closet or did you convince some poor sap to take it off of your hands?

  75. Doodie Machetto on

    PS, I think John M is our old friend Vinny Pooh, because only someone as kid crazy as him would ever think that Wiseman, Weller, and Helminen are good players.

  76. Well, not only don’t the Rangers want to pay Avery the $2.6 million he’s asking (their offer is $1.3 million), according to Uncle Larry, Slats refers to him as “an effective player but also a detriment to the team” in his submission to the hearing today. This and Avery’s lengthy response is all in today’s Post, here. Avery is still psyched to be a Ranger, but very personally offended.

  77. How did Malhotra look bad? How was Kovalev or Lundmark rushed? How are Wiseman, Weller, Helminen, etc. bad players? If we go by your theory they are about now ready to be in NHL. Some players it just doesn’t matter if they are rushed or not, they just aren’t good enough. Your boy Lundmark is a UFA and nobody wants him. 3 other teams gave him a good chance and he blew it.

    I am all for being patient with players that show they can play in NHL and show improvement, especially if they are high draft pick. Lundmark never impressed me away from the puck, and even less with the puck, his work ethic sucked as well as his hockey sense. Kovalev was just more interested in stickhandling and beating defenders rather than goalies.

  78. well it looks like Avery won’t be here for long thanks to Sather. Calling him “a detriment to the team” is just going to make Avery go back to his old days of being a cancer and then leave Rangers either via trade or free agency next summer. They should have signed him for several years, unless they really do feel he is a “a detriment to the team”. Looks like Avery is not in the long term plans.

  79. Well, I guess if you look at it from a different perspective, he came along at a time when the team needed an edge and needed to start caring. Whether or not it was actually him and what he brought or a realization by the other players that they were going nowhere fast and had better commit to playing some defense and improve their games, or Henrik just peaking, or all of the above is tough to say. Perhaps it was just a timing issue. Or perhaps the Rangers are still unsure of what they’re dealing with and don’t want to commit to a long-term deal right away.

    Still, I think Avery is loved here, at least by the fans, and I think what he brings is far more important than maybe Sather recognizes…

  80. Colorado Mark on

    It’s a business tactic by Sather. These hearings are set up to be this way, and your fooling yourself if you think Avery’s comments are not strategic themselves. He knows he probably will lose the arbitration hearing and he is using the media to plead his case to perhaps better his bargaining position in the future. If there was no arbitration hearing, Sather doesn’t say these things about Avery. Teh Blueshirt Bulletin has a good write up on it.

  81. Yea Jay I saw that this morning and almost spilled my coffee everywhere. Seriously Slats now all of a sudden your cheap? You just signed Gomez to a ridiculous contract and you’re trying to save like a million dollars?????? I don’t get it, he is one of the main reasons why we made our run. I can’t blame Avery if he leaves after this year….

  82. Colorado Mark on

    Sather has to do this because of the cap issues and the fact that he’s not done tinkeringyet. This is a go for it year and he needs to sign Avery cheap, Hossa cheaper and then have room to make a deal for a D-man (if the rumors are true.) Every penny counts, which makes these hearings even more important.

  83. At Avery’s age, he should not have cut him so deeply, and they should have gotten a 3 or 4 year deal done (Cullen’s $ was now free) and set Hossa free.

    I would be surprised if this one comes out all smiles and a 3 year deal with both, wink, wink, posturing publically. Sather would look the genius with that one.

    More than likely, Avery, like Gomez, will not forget being ripped by management and when the day of freedom comes, will walk.

    I think it is the latter: penny wise and pound foolish move by Sather…even though he is right about taking stupid penalties.

  84. Avery is the type of player you need on your team. Because of his antics he takes the other team off their game. The other team focuses on trying to attack Avery and therefore helps guys like jagr to do his thing. I never liked Sather and this truly justifies why. Avery now will be history after this season. Sather please retire and go play your golf, please.

  85. To be clear about Jessiman, I and the others posting about wanting him were only advocating for him to fill the fourth line, where he will most likely be better than Hollweg. From his progress so far, I can only conclude that he would fit there and not on a higher line.

    Someone advocated using a fourth line of scoring/youth players. That would be nice if we didn’t need another enforcer. As a second line player, which it looks like Avery will be, he should not be counted on to get into too many fights, so that’s why we have Orr. Also, that fourth line woulg probably kill some of our defensive game.

    I guess the Rangers didn’t think Avery would agree to a contract of around $2 million, or else they probably would have offered more. $2.6 million is really steep for an agitator, even if he scores 1/2 point per game. I wish they could have got him into a three- or four-year deal that averaged to $2 million per year.

    Colorado Mark – there’s probably not going to be a “loser” in the arbitration hearing, as they will most likely settle somewhere close to the middle, which would explain the Rangers lowball offer. I guess the farthest number they settle from could be termed the loser. Hopefully, Avery still feels loved by Renney and his teammates, so Sather’s feeling won’t affect him too much. Sather might just be thinking that a long-term deal could be a liability for Avery to act out or slack off.

  86. Hmm, an interesting nugget about arbitration on TSN’s website that I didn’t know – since the Rangers have Hossa’s hearing after Avery’s, they can wait until 48 hours after Hossa’s decision (the last one) to decide on both of the awards, if they so choose. So we may not know about Avery’s contract until next Monday. Hopefully, since Avery is more important, they will decide sooner, though.

  87. AngelusMortis on

    I don’t care if it’s “business tactics,” you do not call the person that the coach and captain of your team both called the missing piece of the puzzle a detriment. Slats can argue that he took unnecessary penalties and such, but you can’t use those kinds of words. Avery is still a human being with feelings, for God’s sake.

  88. Jeez. This is exactly why I hate this arbitration BS.

    It’s a no win situation. You know the guy (Avery) is the sparkplug. But you don’t want to pay him 4mil. per. So you lowball the offer and then call him a DETRIMENT to the team to get the arbitrator to award what? Like 2-million Are you FREAKING kidding me!!????

    I’m not saying pay through the nose but come on. A detriment!?

    How this won’t affect his atitude is beyond me.

    Couldn’t Slats just go in there with Avery’s G, A, and points and come away with 2 million without insulting the guy?

    I understand intagibles come into play, but come on. Mara, Callahan, Girardi showed up late too… the team HAD to play better to make the play-offs, Hank stepped up his game, etc. Was it ALL due to Avery? I think part of it was. But those above issues could have been raised without calling him a detriment.

    I mean he’s not Hank or Jagr for god’s sake but we need him to be on board and ready to go!!!

  89. Main Entry: detriment
    Part of Speech: noun
    Definition: disadvantage
    Synonyms: damage, disability, disservice, drawback, handicap, harm, hurt, impairment, injury, loss, mar, mischief, prejudice, spoiling
    Antonyms: advantage, benefit

  90. Colorado Mark on

    This is the problem with emotion in a business decision. You can’t tell me Avery isn’t tough enough to have some mean things said to him? Hello? What’s his M.O.? This is a guy who lives by the sword. Sather didn’t call a press conference. It’s a defense of arbitration document prepared by lawyers. Both sides have to file it and it is public record. Avry is fine. He’s still excited about playing here. He is just using the media to get the fans on his side and put a little pressure on management. Avery elected to take the rangers to Arbitration. Should slats write about how indispensible he is to the team and then ask for less? It’s the cap era. Every dollar counts. It’s obvious that The Rangers are going for it this year. If Avery has a great year (which I am sure he will), then we can sign him to a longer deal (I’d still take him one at a time, maybe two- with his reputation) and make hima key cog after Jags, Straka, Malik, etc. are gone. I say keep him hungry like he was this year. He seems to wear out his welcome by the end of a long contract (see Det, LA).

  91. Colorado Mark – you have to be kidding me. You don’t call him a detriment there are plenty of other ways to plead your case (penalties, pts etc). Sather would rather sign an Ozo clone for $ 3 mm + to qb his beloved pp. If the people I reported to reviewed me and used that terminology on my review I would seriously look for a transfer. Sather screwed up big time. Another reason he can not bring in another $ 5 mm man for his d. He’ll be doing this to all his players.

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