Ladies and gentlemen, Sheldon Souray has left the building

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Like the old Elvis concerts, Rangers fans couldn’t be convinced that Sheldon Souray wasn’t headed to New York until the defenseman was completely out of the picture.

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Now Souray is officially gone after “signing a five-year deal with the Oilers”:http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=213373&hubname=nhl, meaning you can all breathe a little easier.

It’s hard to say how close the Rangers got to Souray. My understanding is the defenseman was more serious about the Rangers than they were about him, but either way, it’s a welcome sign that it didn’t happen.

The reason I say this has less to do with Souray’s supposed defensive liabilities, or for that matter, anything about the player specifically. Instead, it has to do with fending off the old Ranger mentality that they could simply snag any player they want.

Even in an offseason in which they’ve signed Scott Gomez and Chris Drury, and re-signed Brendan Shanahan and Henrik Lundqvist, the Rangers have still done so within the confines of the salary cap — albeit dangerously close to the cap — and by exercising their own amount of restraint.

If there’s a lesson to be learned from the previous decade of futility, it’s that talent alone doesn’t mean much. Don’t get me wrong: the Rangers were already an impressive team on paper, and they’ve become that much more so this month. But the additions they’ve made have as much to do with chemistry as they do with star power.

Throw Souray into the mix, however, and I’m not sure you can make the same case.

*************************************************

In other news, the Matt Cullen watch continues, “with the center today telling Larry Brooks that he wants to stay in New York”:http://www.nypost.com/seven/07132007/sports/rangers/cullen_denies_talk_of_trade_rangers_larry_brooks.htm.

I don’t doubt that Cullen wants to stay, especially since he now has a good chance to win a second Stanley Cup in three years. The question is whether the Rangers can afford to keep him. They certainly could if they shed another contract on defense, which seems to make more sense given the likely arrival of Marc Staal.

Stay tuned…

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426 Comments

  1. Must gloat one more time…WHAT DID I SAY…

    Ryan: “don’t doubt that Cullen wants to stay” That means he wants to be in Blue…and who wouldn’t. Among the contenders in the east, the Rangers probably have the strongest top-two lines and the best net minder. They also happen to have two of the best clutch players in the game (Drury and Lundqvist). I’m not clearing off space for the cup yet, but it seems like a pretty darn good possibility. There aren’t too many teams Cullen would get traded to that would have such chances, IMO.

  2. Robby Bonfire on

    Re “A good chance to win a second Stanley Cup in three years.” Is this a fan club back-scratching column?

    Currently, “good” reposes in the seven per cent chance for success range. This is more akin to “speculative” than “good.” Lots of unanswered questions will have to be answered in the affirmative for the prognosis to become even remotely better. Too much “Stanley Cup” talk in July, let’s let them play the season first and see what shape they are in, next April, and whether they are even a part of the playoff picture at that time. People sure do detest reality considerations. Fantasy lives!

  3. True Fans bleed RW&B on

    Sam, just for clarification, your post implies that Souray is less of a team-player than Gomez or Drury…? If that’s just a hunch, I understand but if that’s based on something more can you elaborate?

    How many people thought Avery would mess up the team chemistry too? He turned out to be quite the opposite, the catalyst that put us from the brink of a playoff berth to a mid-Eastern Conference contender.

  4. True Fans bleed RW&B on

    And I completely agree with Bonfire, way too many people already handing us a seat in the finals…we still gotta earn it and freakish things do happen through the course of a season.

  5. Robbie: Settle down. We’re just excited fans who knows this is a team that went to the 2nd round last year and made great improvements this offseason. We know it all means nothing, that the players have to execute and form some chemistry, etc. Can’t we just be happy and excited for our team? Damn, you are so negative.

    Sam: Excellent post. I couldn’t agree with you more. I think Cullen will definitely be here next year, and I can see them unloading a defensemen first if Marc Staal is as good and ready as advertised.

  6. Souray would have been a bad fit. There’s no room on this team for both Mara and Souray. Mara and Souray play the same type game. They are both better on the offensive end and they are both defensive liabilities. Thank God for the salary cap or Souray would have been a Ranger.

  7. Two responses:

    No, I’m not giving the Rangers a pass into the finals. But what I am saying is right now, on July 13, you as a player would want to be part of this team given how things look. That’s it. It’s still going to be a very difficult road.

    Meanwhile, what I said doesn’t have anything to do with Souray specifically as it does the sense that the Rangers might have signed him just because they could. As I said earlier about the salary cap, I like the fact that it forces teams like the Rangers to make hard decisions as opposed to casting as wide a net as possible.

  8. Bonfire, oh please. Each team actually has a 1 in 30 chance of winning the cup next year at this point because NO games have been played. So let’s just say the Rangers have as good of a chance as the Panthers; yep that makes sense. Don’t knock Sam for doing his job and *reporting* on the fact that the Rangers are in good shape. Of course injuries happen, but this is the base of facts we have to go on right now when evaluating the team and others in the top half of the league.

  9. Agreed Sam. I mean, consider what’s occurred this offseason:

    NYR added Chris Drury and Scott Gomez

    BUF lost Chris Drury and Daniel Briere

    NJ lost Scott Gomez and Brian Rafalski without making any major additions

    NYI lost Jason Blake, Ryan Smyth, Alexei Yashin, and Sean Hill (a thorn in our side last year)

    Montreal lost Sheldon Souray, their biggest offensive threat and the sole reason they had a PP.

    Those transactions, in my opinion, change the balance of power in the East (and the Atlantic Division) tremendously. And I am not sold on Philly yet. Yes, they made some nice moves. But they had nothing to begin with. They went from garbage to possible playoff team at best.

    No one is engraving the NYR on the Cup yet. But realistically, they do have as good of a chance at making a run as anyone else does.

  10. I see Buffalo, Pittsburgh, the Rangers, and Ottawa battling it out for the top spot in the eastern conference

    Pittsburgh is going to be scary good very soon. With that young nucleus they could be like the oilers dynasty of the 80’s. Now with the Salary cap Pittsburgh won’t have to dismantle the team like Edmonton had to.

  11. Rob L: For the most part, I agree. I think you have to add NJ in there too, only because they always find a way to be there and they do have Brodeur. Figure those 5 and then you’ll have your middle of the pack teams (Philly, Toronto, Montreal, Atlanta, Tampa Bay, and Carolina) to fight for the last 3 spots. I can also see Florida making a jump into that mix too this year if Horton and Bouwmeester continue to develop and Vokoun plays at a high level.

  12. i hope Cullen stays. I think he is definitely worth his contract and brings more to the table than just goals. However, I think we’ll see more off stats from him this year – now that his first year adj is out of the way. I still think he’d be great at the point on the PP.

  13. NJ Mark: you’re right, I forgot about the Devils. They will always be in the mix as long as Brodeur is between the pipes. Did you happen to see their schedule? They start off the season with I think 9 straight road games. That’s a tough way to start a season. I guess they need all the time they can get to finish the new arena in beatiful downtown Newark…

  14. NJ Mark- agree w/ you completely except i dont think nj is gonna be able to get by this year. they’ll be in the middle pack only b/c they have brodeur – but no offense & a weak d. i’m not convinced w/ phili at all, mainly b/c i dont think biron is that great of a goalie. pittsburgh will be tough, but fleury isnt that steady and their d isnt either. i like the rangers chances, being solid in net and having an ok d. other than buffalo & possibly pitt. i think the rangers are at the top. if ottawa doesnt sign emery then their done. it should be an interesting season…

  15. True Fans bleed RW&B on

    Sam, I appreciate the response. I do agree that the salary cap is a great thing, to extend your thought, it forces the Rangers to use cheap talent…ie, rookies who would never have been developed on the Rangers team’s of old…and that in turn makes veterans work a little harder because there are rookies fighting to make their way into the NHL and steal a vets job. Completely agree.

    As for Souray, it would have been nice to swap him for Mara.

  16. Leetchy2: I desperately want to say the Devils are middle of the pack. I really do. But I can’t. I have to say I’ll believe it when I see it. Every year, cheap Lou lets someone walk (putting Elias aside), and each year, they find a way mostly because of Brodeur. Until the day comes, I have to believe they are a 95-105 point team unfortunately. Pains me to say that.

  17. Robby Bonfire on

    Brandon has it exactly correct, and a solid grip on reality – each team, right now, has 1/30th chance of sipping champagne, next year. Well stated, and not an exaggeration nor “negative” or “defeatist” in any way.

  18. Agreed about the Devils but, at least, last year, Brodeur finally looked worn out and less reliable than in the past. Maybe the toll of 10000 games a year is finally taking its toll.

  19. To expand on the devils. It helps to have Brodeur but the reason why the devs are good every year is because of there drafting and development of young players and actually playing them in the nhl.

  20. TomG: I’ll go one step further on why the Devils are good every year. Not only because of their drafting and development of young players, but also because they set up the same system for their team and their AHL team to play. They get the players to believe in the system and when they come up from the AHL, they are ready to jump right in and know how the team plays.

    OK, enough Devils talk. I’m getting sick.

  21. Doodie Machetto on

    To those of you that think Pittsburgh is going to win a bunch of cups, you’re wrong. They might, *might* win one. Then they will be the next Tampa Bay Lightning, all of their cap tied up into 3 or 4 players. They will also be lousy in the net. Freaky coincidence there.

  22. Brodeur is a great goalie there is no doubt about that, but I do think we started to see cracks in his armour last year and as a team they won’t be as strong defensively so I think Marty is going to have a tough season and I actually think you may see a total collapse of his game. I have to say I am really rooting for it, he’s caused me alot of pain over the years.

  23. ORR Kicks Yin Yang on

    Damn

    I dont know if you all know this but Stars re signed Ribeiro and Lundqvist….

    If he was an FA….NYR shoulda went after him….

    Eh….back to the devil talk

  24. Good. While Souray’s blast- and it is a BLAST- would have been a welcome addition from the point, we do not need another constricting contract, and another ‘star’ player, as Sam eluded too. We have some guys in the minors that are capable of doing the ‘job’ (maybe not at the elite status) on D in a few years, and don’t need a logjam. Furthermore, team chemistry is already now a question on the offense- though, with so many options for centers and wings, is not a great concern (Straka, Avery, Drury, Cullen can all play center or wing, so lots of flexibility).

    I would be concerned if we added another pay-day on D, would this turn into the rangers of the 90’s, where the cup was awarded to them in July/August, but yet they always end up just out of contention because there is no team bond.

  25. Doodie – exactly why Souray would not have worked. Our cap would have been tied up in 4 guys as well excl JJ once the King signs long term.

  26. Doodie: I agree with your Pittsburgh assessment because Crosby, Malkin, Staal, and Gonchar equal Lecavalier, St. Louis, Richards, and Boyle. They will have their cap committed to 4 excellent players.

    And I’m sorry, Fleury is very overrated. I’d rather have the following goalies on my team: Lundqvist, Brodeur, Miller, Emery, Ward, Vokoun, Mason, Hasek, Luongo, Backstrom, Kiprusoff, Giguere, Turco, and Nabokov. That means I’d rank him 15 out of 30. Middle of the pack. Not good enough to win a Cup.

  27. Orr- Compensation for a player like Lundqvist would have been a 3rd rounder. He is a 25 year old 4th line, 3rd line on a bad team pl,ayer. Im sure they think that the 3rd rounder they would have to give Dallas could be a much better player than Joel. As cool as it would be to have both the Lundqvist brothers on the same team, we have a surplus of 4th liners. Although it would be cool to have a guy who broke someone hip

  28. The Devils will still be solid but you have to wonder when enough is enough with them. The coaching changes, the players leaving. I don’t think they have brought anything in that replaces what they have lost, especially on defense. Zubrus should replace Gomez’s goal scoring but I just don’t see Rachunik and Vishnevski replacing Rafalski and Lukowich. I can’t tell you how many time I watched Gomez come down the wing, curl back and hit Rafalski jumping into the play for a blast from the high slot. Good luck doing that with Karl or Johnny Oduya.

    That being said, I am going to need to see a couple big goals from Gomez before I can completely shake that Devils image out of my head.

  29. Each time has a 1-in-30 chance??

    Uh, no. That would be the case if the Cup winner were determined by a random drawing from a hat. But the Cup winner is not determined by chance, it’s determined by skill and effort, mostly. Since teams differ in these qualities, some have a better chance — shot, reasonable expectation — of winning the Cup next year than others. Even before the season starts, it’s possible to say that.

  30. Wow Sam, timely reporting. Thursday 8pm on yahoo sports. Too busy watching “So You Think You Can Dance” and “Don’t Forget the Lyrics” last night?

    You get held up with all the police activity at your offices yesterday?

  31. 50 freakin million dollars for a washed up footballer!!! No one cares about “Football” or soccer which ever one you want to call it. How the heck do they expect to make money giving a washed up footballer (soccerplayer) 250 million dollars when NO ONE in America cares a bit about soccer? Sorry this is a little off topic but the news conference comes on ESPN I had to let off some steam.

  32. Hopefully, they hire a fill-in speaker for Leetch when they retire his #2 because he’s awful in front of a mike (unlike Mess, Richter, and Graves).

  33. the chances of robby or his best friend posse have of being right are not good, as in slim to none.

  34. “I am going to need to see a couple big goals from Gomez before I can completely shake that Devils image out of my head”

    Agreed…but I also take solace in the fact that Gomez may very well reach his prime years in New York.

    Picture it: Gomez’ years as a Devil merely a warmup for his real legacy across the river.

    fat chance, I know….but it’s fun to think about.

  35. True Fans bleed RW&B on

    The Rangers stole another Devils center, out of spite, he wasn’t a high-scorer. He flopped in New York. I think they gave him a LARGE salary ($35-45million, i’m pretty sure).

    …and then they bought him out and he went to the THRASHERS. So, I hope all the proponents for the Gomer are right because I’m still skeptical.

  36. “each team, right now, has 1/30th chance of sipping champagne, next year.”

    Well, not quite. Teams like EDM and Pho don’t have a chance at all. so it is more like 1/28, maybe even 1/25.

  37. Holik was not used properly with the Rangers. The just used hims as a big guy and not a guy wtih talent who could score and skate. Gomez fits the system well and is a perfect fit for the line with jagr. He is a great passer and set up man. He shades off defenders giving him jagr time to get open and hit him with a pass. He is very similar to Nylander but he is younger faster and is a better passer. It should be fun to watch.

  38. ORR Kicks Yin Yang on

    GO NYR

    I feel your pain….I hate soccer….its boring…The only thing that makes me happy about Beckham coming over here….is i get to see more of his hot wife…..Gotta love Posh..

    And your right about Joel…A 3rd rounder could be better….But id take him over Hollweg any day of the week…

    And who’s the moron who keeps saying Hollweg is one of the best hitters in the league…Thats the dumbest thing i ever heard about the guy…He has to be ranked dead last on a “vicious hitters” list….

  39. True Fans bleed RW&B on

    Hollweg is a frequent hitter, he has an instinct for hitting guys who are in vulnerable positions but hitting legally. I’m not sure if that’s good or bad, but you see other teams run at Holly for that and I’ve heard the ABC/TSN announcers even commenting on that. Simon felt he was hit from behind (and it was kind of a shoulder-push, face to the glass) executed in a borderline penalizable hit.

    Hollweg is not a “great” or “heavy” hitter by any stretch.

  40. ORR Kicks Yin Yang on

    LOL

    TSN has a poll….

    “Which will Souray improve on most this season”
    A) Goals
    B) + / –
    C) Neither ( 52 % )

    Either there telling the truth or there just mad that Souray didnt sign with there team…

    I thought it would be a semi good move signing Souray but now that he’s gone im over it….I kinda dont wanna be that team that “buys the cup”….not saying we are getting the cup….but you know

    Hopefully we can still get rid of Malik….Keep Mara and Cullen for the love of god…

  41. Go NYR:

    I’m looking forward to “Becks” coming to The States. If you get three good seasons from him to elevate the game in this country, then I would say the investment is worth it.

    Remember, he’s been playing against the best players in the world in Spain and England, he should thrive here, even at 32.

    Good luck Becks!

  42. I think we all remember the Holik debacle. I also think he was given an assaignment that was just to big for him to ever chew. Gomez ha sbeen signed and will have the *opportunity* to take on the role that Holik was prematurely assigned, should he fit. I think the difference here is that the responsibilities of the top lines are so vastly distrubuted, that all the players will hopefully be able to play a relaxed/collected game, and not suffer the burden of the limelight on their personal shoulders. Gomez (and Drury) have the opportunity to *grow* into leaders on this team while Jagr/Shanahan are still here….there is no immediate pressure on them to carry the team, the way the Holik deal was designed for him to do. If these guys show up and play sound hockey, they can evolve naturally into something special.

    Holik was bound for failure from the start. Nothing about that deal EVER felt right. You can’t just stuff a guy in there like that an expect lightening in a bottle. The Gomez/Drury signing has such a beautiful design that it almost hurts. If those guys just play DECENT for the next few years even after our VET’s are gone, we can be a consitently great team with all our youth/prospects getting fed by top notch centers. If they play STRONG game for the next few years: look out.

    Gomez looks happy as fcuk right now. In hi sfirst Kaufman interview after the press conference you could not WIPE the SMILE off his face, it was ridiculous.

    I think if you read between the lines he left NJ with a big FU to Lou, and a BIG FU to Marty. (saying MSG is the “biggest stage of the hockey world” and that the rangers having the goalie they do in hank being another reason he wanted to play here)

    I’m not worried about Gomez, it’s Drury who concerns me, chemistry wise.

  43. Hollweg is hated around the league because he hits hard, and he hits often, he causes pain and sometimes injury to other teams. 98% of his hits are legal, but sometimes refs are biased.

  44. “Gomez looks happy as fcuk right now. In hi sfirst Kaufman interview after the press conference you could not WIPE the SMILE off his face, it was ridiculous.”

    it had definitely something to do with 52 million dollar contract. When you know you are just set for several lifetimes you wouldn’t be able to stop grinning either.

  45. Bonfire – wrong again. I guess you never had a sarcasm meter installed and only read the first three sentences of my post. Clearly the Rangers have a better than 3.33% chance to win the Cup because they have better talent than other teams. Do I really have to spell everything out for you?

  46. For Sam:

    Sam, why do reports say that it is unlikely that we will be moving Malik? is it our unwillingness? the stubbornness shown last season by playing him no matter what?? is it his incredibly high salary??

    If not Sam, any adult have an answer for this?

    This guy seems to be clueless about what defense is. 2.5 million? I don’t even know how he is in the league.

  47. Rob L. July 13th, 2007 at 11:22 am
    I see Buffalo, Pittsburgh, the Rangers, and Ottawa battling it out for the top spot in the eastern conference
    Pittsburgh is going to be scary good very soon. With that young nucleus they could be like the oilers dynasty of the 80’s. Now with the Salary cap Pittsburgh won’t have to dismantle the team like Edmonton had to.

    uh, huh? How can they be a dynasty and NOT have to dismantle under the CAP? How can they keep Crosby, Staal, Malkin, and Fleury? Have 4 stars and everyone else is a minimum wage rookie?

    “Now with the Salary cap Pittsburg won’t have to dismantle the team like Edmonton had to”. Was that just sarcasm?

  48. it had definitely something to do with 52 million dollar contract. When you know you are just set for several lifetimes you wouldn’t be able to stop grinning either.

    ———-

    Gomez was cashing in wherever he went, dipshit. Everyone likes money but if you can’t see that Gomez is pumped to be a Ranger you might want to take a moment to rinse the dried protein “shake” out of your eyes.

    Aside from that, I don’t think it would take more than a foot long oscar meyer dropped down the back of your undies to keep a guy like you grinning, let alone $52M.

  49. the only thing Gomez is pumped about is cashing his checks, The guy throws about 20 bodychecks a season and scores even fewer goals and he gets shitload of money thrown at him. Most players that stink in their contract season wouldn’t get much of a raise. The arbitrators awarded him 5 million for scoring 84 points, then next summer Rangers award him with 53 million for scoring 13 goals and 60 points.

  50. DYLAN DILIGENT

    Meanwhile, former captain Dylan Reese ‘07 remains in contact negotiations with the New York Rangers after playing in ten regular season games and two playoff contests with the Hartford Wolf Pack, New York’s top minor league club.

    “I’m not happy about their most recent offer, and they know that I’m unhappy,� said the former Crimson captain.

    If both parties fail to come to terms before Aug. 15, Reese could test the waters of free agency. Whatever the outcome of his contract talks, Reese plans to cut ten pounds, work on his explosive step, and adapt to a less-scrappy style of defense to better suit his 5’11 frame.

    The Rangers’ system remains chock full of competition for Reese, as the Rangers have recently placed more emphasis on internal player development as opposed to big-name free agent signings.

    “The Rangers have a deep system and a lot of young defensemen and some highly-touted guys coming out of the Canadian league,� Reese said. “You really have to outplay a lot of other guys.�

    As the future of Harvard’s best talent continues to evolve in professional hockey, the success of these three can serve notice that Harvard hockey is routinely capable of molding promising freshmen into players with the skills and mental agility to follow Donato’s professional example.

    Looks like the prospects are getting smart and getting the hell out of this organization. Roche, Reese, and Olver will be gone likely. Basically in the last year or 2 we lost Wiseman, Giroux, Petruzalek, Russell, Guenin, Paiement, Flatt, Cliche, Koverko, Crabb, Flynn, Lampman, Furrer, Marek, Dornic, Labarberra, Hirschovits, Immonen, Helminen, Kondratiev, Weller, Genoway, Balej. And we totally fail to develop Kozak, Bahensky, Graham, Falardeau, Holt, and Jessiman.

  51. The arbitrators awarded him 5 million for scoring 84 points, then next summer Rangers award him with 53 million for scoring 13 goals and 60 points.

    —–

    I don’t like the math behind it anymore than the people writing the checks. The FACT of the matter is that Gomez was among the Top 3 available forwards/centers in the game, and we hooked him. *Take a look around the league. EVERYONE made out like bandits as a result of expansion/watered down talent, not just Gomez.*

  52. Seamus: uh, huh? How can they be a dynasty and NOT have to dismantle under the CAP? How can they keep Crosby, Staal, Malkin, and Fleury? Have 4 stars and everyone else is a minimum wage rookie?

    no I wasn’t being sarcastic. I was simply pointing out that Pittsburgh is going to be dam good for many years.

    How is their situation any different than ours. Gomez and Drury are already making 7 million a year. Lundqvist is going to make 6 or 7 come next year and if Jagr wants to keep playing he’s going to be making the same amount. Are the Rangers going to have to dismantle their team like you say Pittsburgh will?

  53. ORR Kicks Yin Yang on

    LOL…Good one Salted

    IVANPUSMOTPOSSE

    I think the only one who truly hates hollweg is the girl that was pissed on bu him….

    I never understood the man crush you had on him….But you know basically nothing…You probably think he’s better then Jagr…

    And if your gonna feed me your BS about how Orr sucks…Woopty friggin doo….the difference between them is Orr had 1 more goal then him….and a shit load of fights won…

    That counts for something…

  54. “I don’t like the math behind it anymore than the people writing the checks. The FACT of the matter is that Gomez was among the Top 3 available forwards/centers in the game, and we hooked him. Take a look around the league. EVERYONE made out like bandits as a result of expansion/watered down talent, not just Gomez.”

    there is always the trade route or the next summer. And like I said before Straka and Avery are fine playing center, and wingers we have plenty of our own,

  55. You know, sometimes when I read the posts on here, I can almost hear Michael Buffer saying, “Lllllllllllets get ready to rum-blllllllllle!”

  56. Doodie Machetto on

    Wiseman, Giroux, Petruzalek, Russell, Guenin, Paiement, Flatt, Cliche, Koverko, Crabb, Flynn, Lampman, Furrer, Marek, Dornic, Hirschovits, Immonen, Helminen, Kondratiev, Weller, Genoway, Balej

    Ten bucks says that the career NHL point totals for all of those guys (with the exception of Cliche) combined from now until their retirement is under 50.

    Cliche was part of the Avery deal. ‘d much rather have Avery.

    LaBarbara has consistently shown he isn’t up to the NHL level, despite success at the AHL level.

    Yup, we lost a TON there.

  57. ” never understood the man crush you had on him….”

    what is your mancrush with Orr? And why you are using the dumbest handle that makes no sense and makes you seem even dumber than you already are, which is probably the dumbest poster here not counting some idiot who started and stopped posting here July 1st.

  58. Excellent point Doodie. Couldn’t agree more.

    Not for nothing, but there will ALWAYS be prospects who are dealt/don’t make it. An NHL team dresses 20 a night. How many prospects does each organization have? At least double, maybe triple? Obviously, only the best make it. I’m sick of fans who think the world is ending just because a team trades or releases a prospect. Get over it already. For every Henrik Lundqvist, there are 20 Pavel Brendls.

  59. “Posse: Wrong again. Do you not see how much more valuable Avery is as a winger?”

    nope, he is a very good playmaker and a great skater. Maybe you don’t see the value of him being a center.

  60. My point is that Rangers go through prospects as if they aren’t people. Many aren’t signed, which is the best scenarion, other get used and thrown out without getting a fair chance. Others are traded for 7th rounder or the likes of Isbister.

    Rangers are so clueless when it comes to developing young players, the only way they know to do it is just get as many prospects as they can and then hope some of them develop on their own.

  61. a casual observer on

    I really enjoyed Cullen’s play towards the end of the season and in the playoffs. Renney started to utilize him properly and he found some chemistry with a few linemates(I still think he should be on the pplay point)) I want him to stay. I hope we keep him at the expense of Hossa and Malik’s contracts. :)

  62. can you imagine Reese signing with Penguins and becoming a 60+ point defenseman for them? I hope he does that. It is amazing that Pock finished 4 years of college and was stupid enough to re-sign here. Renney must be very good at brainwashing young people.

  63. Robby Bonfire on

    Interesting concept re Pittsburgh winning maybe, one Cup, DOODIE. However many they do or do not win, they build around kids who are talented and ever-maturing, they do not center their team on big reputation guys in the 34- 36-38 age range. More power to them and we need to do the same.

  64. Robby Bonfire on

    “The Rangers go through propects as if they aren’t people” = the best line of the day!

  65. posse – I don’t think any of the guys you named are going to the hockey hall of fame except by buying a ticket. Balej and Immonen among others LMAO.

    if Sam ever puts an ignore this user function and I used it for you and your fellow Islander fan buddy Bonfire I would miss important insight like that.

  66. My point is that Rangers go through prospects as if they aren’t people.

    ——–

    They aren’t. They’re meat. This is New York. If you want to play here you better bring your A game when you get your ever-so-slim shot. I know thats not always the best policy, but that’s how it works here. If Joe Rangerfan in section 82 wanted to see the Wolfpack develop, he’d go to Hartford.

    This ain’t Buffalo where all the fans know just as much about the Rochester 4th liners as they do about the Sbares 1st line . 75% of MSG is going to wonder who the frag this “Stall” kid is in October, if he even makes the cut.

    25 Heady Ranger Points and a Manny Malhotra autographed photo to the one who answers:

    What character in what 1980’s comedy said:
    “I’ve worked in the private sector. They expect results.”

  67. Robby

    We have 3 guys on our team who are aged 34+.

    Straka is 34, Jagr is 35 and Shanahan is 38-
    The only one of them who we “center” our team around is Jagr; and rightfully so-

    PITT has Recchi who is 39, Gary Roberts is 41, and Gonchar on D is 33. Those 3 players combined are an average of 38 years old. You were saying…..

  68. Doodie Machetto on

    Robby: You’re right, they focus on the 38+ age range. Recchi and Roberts? Don’t forget LeClair. And Lemieux playing beyond his years and health as well in Crosby’s first season. And Gonchar is locked in a massive contract also. Menwhile, they let a promising young forward in Michel Oullet walk. Yup, definitely not just focusing on the veterans.

    That argument also ignroes the fact that they have been able to draft superstars for the past 5 years or so.

  69. I didn’t know you have to have a team full of hall of famers. LI Joe, just face it you a retarded Islander fan.

    If Prucha or Girardi never got a chance in NHL, they would have been discarded and forgotten just as Balej.

  70. I don’t understand what Reese is talking about in regards to players in front of him within the Rangers system.

    Rozival, Malik, Mara, Strudwick – all of their contracts will be up either by the end of this coming season or next season.

    Leaving Staal, Pock, Girardi, Baranka, Sanguetti, Liffiton, Sauer and Tyutin as the main defenseman in the system.

    Of that group, only Tyutin has shown he can play at an NHL level on a consistent basis, Girardi and Staal hopefully will be regulars, Pock is a 7th defenseman I think who can easily be replaced by a better player within the system.

    So therefore Reese would have to beat out Sanguetti and Sauer as our best young defensive prospects for a spot. Why is this not seen as doable? Or maybe Reese doesn’t think he is as good as there 2 players?

    Reese should sign his contract, play in the AHL and go for a spot next season on the Rangers instead of complaining about a contract when he hasn’t shown he can play at the professional level.

    I don’t agree with the criticism of the Ranger organizations inability to develop talent, the list above refutes that argument.

  71. posse – how old are you. did you follow the team in 94′ were you happy if you did. It seems to me you would be better off following roller derby if that sport still exists. that is the entertainment you’re looking for.

    You and I both know that I despise the Islanders. I’m still not sure what your story is. I think you’re just a contrarian. if someone says good morning you’ll say what’s so good about it. If someone says a cup is half full you’ll say it’s half empty (but if they say the opposite so would you just to disagree). Am I right or am I wrong.

  72. Dont give Pittsburgh too much credit its not hard to do well when you have one of top picks every single year. Wow are they impressive for picking no brainers like Malkin, Staal and Crosby. Look at their picks the last couple of years: 2003-1st overall (Fleury), 2004-2nd (Malkin), 2005-1st (Crosby) and 2006 2nd (Staal).

    I do give them credit for accepting that they were going to suck and not trying to do what the Rangers did for years. It did almost cause them to go bankrupt though…

    The Rangers are coming off back to back trips to the playoffs and if you couldnt tell by the draft class this year there arent any instant star players on the level of Crosby or Malkin. The Penguins got lucky that they sucked at the right time to grab a “Once in a generation” type of player and two other huge potential forwards.

  73. “Joe Rangerfan doesn’t sit in Section 82. He sits in the 400s.

    THAT line, Robby, is the line of the day!

  74. I only have one thing to say about Souray not coming here, and its not even a word.
    PHEWWWWWWWWWWWWWW….
    On another note Cullen would be a better then good 3rd line,power play killing,checking center with scoring skills.I do not want to lose him just to shed payroll.
    We have a couple of d-man Mr.M and Mr.M that i would much rather lose,BUT if we were to get a good tough d-man then i’m all for giving up Cullen if thats what it takes.

  75. “Of that group, only Tyutin has shown he can play at an NHL level on a consistent basis”

    are you a moron? Girardi didn’t show he can play? And how are the rest supposed to show when most of them didn’t get a chance?

    “You and I both know that I despise the Islanders.”

    usually someone who opensly states that they despise something as a cover-up for their love of it. It is the same with homophobic people, they are just scrared because deep down they are supressing their homosexual urges. So the more you point fingers at anyone you don’t like and claim he is an Islander fan, the more it looks like you really are one.

  76. What does everyone think DumpJagrDope/YennerMot/Ivana/Posse’s next name will be after he gets blocked?

    A. A**hole Iceholes fan
    B. Rgaj Skcus
    C. Ogie Oglethorpe

    Come to think of it, maybe I should switch mine to C. That guy was awesome in Slap Shot.

  77. Robby Bonfire on

    DOODIE – Yes, you are right, and I will concede the point to you that Ray Shero (Roberts / Recchi signings, etc.) looks more veteran-biased than did Craig Patrick. Still, the Pens center around their kid nucleus, and the older guys are basically just filler. Someone gets credit for that.

    To me the nucleus of a team is the age bracket the team’s stars and highest paid players are in. This is looking more deeply than just at the overall age-composition of the roster. If I were GM there, I would stay right on Craig Patrick’s established track and avoid like the plague the over-30 exit-ramp imports Shero is now starting to accumulate.

    The Rangers are depending too heavily on their geriatric base, starting with Jagr, Shanahan and Straka. I am ecstatic that they at least parted company with Nylander. And while I defend Malik almost daily, he is now where it would not bother me one bit to see him go. Like Nylander, his time was yesterday, his peak season is history.

    Am I worried as to whether Shanahan will hold up this year, AND maintain a high-production level? You bet I am. Pittsburgh doesn’t even begin to have any concerns like that. So what if Recchi tanks (?) – they will just plug-in someone younger and better. Roberts is done, probably won’t make it out of September. He is physically whipped and has lost just about everything he brought to the table, a few short years ago. Bad signing #1, he was.

  78. (NJ Dan & Doodie WIN!!!)

    ————–

    “Salted: Jow Rangerfan doesn’t sit in Section 82. He sits in the 400s.”

    ————–

    No he doesn’t, the people in 400’s know what’s up, and they are at the Garden regularly. The people up in 400 would probably love to see the kids play. I sit up there most often, and I would.

    Unfortunately 4 of my tickets cost about as much as 1 sec 82 ticket, if not less. MSG is in the business of entertaining Manhattan’s wealthy, casual fan, not the die- hards upstairs. These people don’t want to see a rub a dub team that scraps out wins everynight as much as they want to see marquee names. They want to buy Jerseys. They want to yell POTVIN SUCKS without knowing why. Joe Rangerfan (my perception of him and essentially, 75% of MSG) would take Messier, Leetch, Gravy, Richter back on the ice in a matter of SECONDS.

    Nothing wrong with this, but it’s the reason these kids don’t get a “fair” shot. This is New York City, not Hartford. Apart from that, we’ve HAD season where we “played the kids”…..they didn’t go well.

    Maybe Brooklyn *would* be a good place for the farm team because it could pre-expose a lot of these guys to the more casual fans.

  79. ORR Kicks Yin Yang on

    IvanusPusMotposs

    ….Your a pathetic moron….who has no idea on how to communicate..and has no class what so ever……That makes you an Islander fan…does’nt it….

    As brutal as this may be……..Commit suicide…its the only option you have…

    Dont worry i think Jon Sim is a great replacement for 1 of the fishes you lost…

  80. Doodie Machetto on

    I’ll get to Robby later, but Salted, are you going to mail me the signed Malhotra picture or will I have to settle for regular toilet paper tonight?

  81. And to clear something up, I hope no one in this thread considers themselves a “Joe Rangerfan”, or “casual” fan by any means….whether you’ve ever even made it down to the Garden or not.

    We’re clearly all fucking NYR addicts. That should be evident by the way we are knee deep in (heated?) offseason trade rumor discussions and other malarchy, waiting for the next blog update from Sam.

    This is not casual by any means, this is pretty much obsession.

  82. “NJ MARK, you forgot Vinny Pooh”

    and Malik’s Laser Guided Poke Check, Son of Sam, Ma, Lick My Dick, Uncle Renney’s Cabin, Leisure Suit Larry, and like a dozen others which I can’t even remember. But what most people don’t know is that ORR Kicks Yin Yang and me are the same person.

  83. Robby Bonfire on

    VOGS: Developing young talent is just the beginning. USING IT, i.e PROMOTING IT in timely fashion has been the Achilles Heel of this organization since the Slat Man got here. We are lucky he didn’t trade Staal for Mara. He probably thinks Mara is better. The most telling indicator of Sather’s “career” here, will be where Staal is assigned, out of camp. So help me, Christ, if Sather dumps Staal off in Hartford, and pulls more of his “Hartford Shuttle” crap, a la Pock, and so many others, with this especially-gifted kid, well, we will be looking at ZERO Stanley Cups reposing here for at least another decade.

    Again – not the Shanahan retaining, not the Gomez and Drury signings – not anything done this off-season begins to compare with how Staal is handled from now on, as the most telling and enlightening harbinger of this organization’s future in the Sather era.
    I am holding my (garlic) breath.

  84. Rob,

    if we were paying the FULL salary of Jagr, we would be in a very different place.

    Look at the money that Crosby is going to get. 25% of the entire Team Cap will pay him…..think about it…

    he had once said he wouldn’t do that, but that didn’t last long. They long complained about teams like NY with deep pockets and how they needed a CAP. Now they struck GOLD with real stars. They will NOT be able to keep all 4.

    Crosby money and Malkin money will not come close to Gomez and Drury money. Crosby and Malkin are top—-top dollar earners. As if a team could only afford ONE player of that status. Staal may prove to be worth more dough than Gomez…..

    Also, Pittsburg does NOT draw the revenue we do. Take the CAP and the realistic earnings of the Penguin organization and you will see a fire sale. Or, you will see Crosby surrounded by rookies and marginal AHL players.

    anyone else see this in the cards?

  85. Rangers backup goaltenders:

    Will they start the season with Valliqette as the backup, give Montoya a third of a season in Hartford to prove he’s NHL ready and then bring him up for a showcase towards the middle of the season? Or is he the Rangers backup right out of camp?

    The Rangers used a first round, 5th overall draft pick on this kid, they should at least get back another top ten first round pick or a proven young defensive talent in return for Montoya.

    He’s obviously not going to be a Ranger, so how do the Rangers showcase this kids talent in order to get back a fair return? Is he traded this season? And if so, where does he go and for whom?

  86. I may have to come up with a tie breaker question for you two guys tomorrow…

    but I do actually have the Malhotra picture, and I WILL send it out if the winner does want to frame it for their nightstand….

  87. If you had a son in the draft, would you want him drafted by the New York Rangers?

    not me, dudes. I do think we’ve gained a rep about not giving kids much of a chance. I don’t see it any other way. Look at the parade of multi-millionaires that have passed through since the Cup…..

    sickening.

    Valery Kamesky. Before Malik this past year, I thought I never saw a player with less effort. (actually, Malik tries; he is just awful). Kamensky –no effort at all. He never broke a sweat.

    I was at a game once where he was skating off the ice, very slowly. the puck drifted towards him and he had a clean breakaway.

    he ONE HANDED the puck and got off the ice.

    The crowd went NUTS with the worst boo’ing I had ever heard of a present-tense New York Ranger player. My daughter asked, “Daddy, who are they boo’ing? Not our player, right?”.

    New York fans KNOW the game.

    This is why they embraced Avery when he first came here and gave 100%. This is why they love Jed Ortmeyer, who is really limited in terms of talent (he couldn’t score on an empty net) but gave his heart and soul on the ice.

    prediction:

    when Ortmeyer comes to the Garden, he is cheered strongly. When Nylander, who left over money comes, he get’s boo’d. NY fans READ about him spurning the two offers after 2 career years playing with one of the world';s best players.

    they will boo.

    Well, back to my point.

    How can we get rid of Malik and have a tough, stay at home, bone-breaking defenseman?

  88. Danny Markov is still on the block and is looking for a 3 year deal.

    Is it too much to ask to dump either Malik and/or Mara to sign a REAL defenseman like him?

  89. Pavel Brendl is tearing it up in Europe! 70+ goals in the juniors….they said he would not work hard enough in the NHL to deliver…..

    Remember how NY fans loved Mike York? He was also not the most talented guy in the world but gave a lot.

  90. PS: Rob, I appreciate you answering my posts….we may not see it the same way, but you can count on this one fact:

    I am always wrong.
    That is what is so right about me.

  91. Colorado Mark on

    Fred- Great post. That’s why I get sick of people saying, “The Rangers don’t develop youg kids to be stars like Pittsburgh does!” Duh. They did what the Avs did as the Nordiques for years and instead of winning the lottery for Crosby, they took advantage of the stupidity of Booby Clarke and traded Lindros for a boatload of players that set them up to dominate the West as soon as they moved.

    Posse- Everytime I post to you, you immediately resort to calling me names and questioning my sexuality. I was not going to respond to you, but I think you brought up some interesting points that can add to an intelligent conversation. I’ll be impressd if you can restrain from trying to turn this into a flame war.

    First of all- I agree with you about Hollweg. The guy can’t score, but he hits. Hard. Other teams don’t like to play against him, which makes him a valuable presence. We don’t have anyone else who can hit like him and who can hurt people. It’s a no-brainer whu he was brought back.

    As for the prospects: The number of prospects that you mentioned is long, but I think you could probably come up with a similar list for almost every organization. The draft is a crapshoot, with all players not named Crosby or Staal hardly being a guarantee at the age of 17 or 18. You are correct, the Rangers have been inept in the past. This past year, I was excited about Cliche and Russell. I think Avery was worth giving up Cliche, only because we don’t have a player in the system like Avery and he showed some impressive Ofensive skill. I understand your point about people, but I think most organizations look at their prospects as assets that can be used to germinate or traded to fill voids needed elsewhere. The Rangers have the following young forwards: Dawes, Bourett, Korpikoski, Byers, Dupont, Pyatt, Moore, Dubinsky, Cheraponov, Anisimov who most project as NHL players. Even if only 3 or 4 make it, the guys above have a much greater upside than the ones you mentioned (And Russell, whom I hated to see go, along with Cliche are smallish forwards, who fit behind proven NHL scorer Prucha and possibly Callahan). On Defense, we have Tyutin, Girardi, Staal, Pock, Sauer, Sanguinetti, among others who are pushing the vets. Our AHL team was the youngest in the league and one of the most successful. Even if you hate Sather (whom I have villified myself), this has never been the way our farm team has been run. I know you hate Renney, but he has implemented a defensively responsible system that doesn’t stifle star players (Gomez will probably thrive here and Drury will probably as well). The farm team is being taught the same system and we are holding on to our top prospects. We have young players in key positions (Lundy, Tyutin and Prucha) and we have top prospects in all three positional areas. It’s the first time I can ever remember being excited about the rangers past (last two seasons) present (coming up season) and future. I think Reese will sign and i think we have managed our assets well since the lockout. I look forward to an intelligent discussion about the state of our young players.

  92. ORR

    Posse says Hollweg is one of the best hitters in the league. I think Hollweg takes up space that could be filled by a player that brings more to the table. And Posse says Hollweg’s hated, I think more like he’s ridiculed around the league especially when he “fights”. I don’t hate Hollweg I just feel someone else should take his place on the 4th line (all 4:32 of his time).

    I look forward to hearing that Avery has been signed and that Cullen is staying.

  93. ORR Kicks Yin Yang on

    ANA

    You said it perfect

    IVANUSPUSMOTPOS

    If were the same…then whats the email address im using…..

  94. Robby Bonfire on

    If I owned the Pittsburgh franchise I would relocate it to Winnipeg – a REAL hockey town, toute de suite. The Canadian dollar is much closer to parity with the American dollar now, than it was just a couple years ago, and when the Winnipeg and Q.C. franchises relocated, which is what perpetrated their relocations. I don’t know why someone owning a Pittsburgh or a Nashville franchise doesn’t jump up north in a heartbeat? Instead they talk Kansas City and Las Vegas as the next carpet-bagger venues.

  95. “The number of prospects that you mentioned is long, but I think you could probably come up with a similar list for almost every organization”

    I doubt it except for Capitals and maybe couple other teams. But at least Capitals gave most of them a decent chance.

    “The Rangers have the following young forwards: Dawes, Bourett, Korpikoski, Byers, Dupont, Pyatt, Moore, Dubinsky, Cheraponov, Anisimov who most project as NHL players.”

    and I bet most of them won’t make it because they won’t give them a good chance, many will either be traded or give up and go play in Europe.

  96. posse – you never really answered my question from 4:23 PM. feel free to answer at your earliest convenience.

    BTW – are you also Bonfire?

  97. “The Rangers go through propects as if they aren’t people�

    What do you think of the rest of the players on the NYR are ? All I hear from you two is play kids, get rid of guys over 25, 30, 35. What’s that another Fabonacci scale? When you two turn 30 or 35 maybe you’ll stop your nonsense talk. Go watch the games in Hartford & go on their blog.Better yet, become Pittsburg fans.

  98. Giroux played nine games with the capitals last season scoring 2g and 2a. He signed a multi-year deal with the Thrashers today, but I’m guessing you know this if you’re asking about him…

  99. Robby Bonfire on

    Are some here being facetious about Pittsburgh also having a contingent of older guys to round out their roster? Because, if so, you are conveniently IGNORING the fact that the Pittsburgh team is built around three forwards, already mega-star players, who are UNDER 21! Jagr, 36 in mid-season, Shanahan 39, also in mid-season, and good ole “Figure-Eight” Sally Straka, my choice for the Lady Byng Figure Skating title in the next Olympics, will be, what, 41, 44 and about 40, respectively, five years from now when the Pittsburgh stars are approaching all of 25!

    Time is NOT on the Rangers side, and we will see who Pittsburgh gets to keep and who they dump when its time to pay the Piper. Point is, the argument that Pittsburgh also has old guys is pukin’ LAME, girls.

    And we don’t yet know if the best young D in captivity is even going to make our Rangers club in September, so fearful is our GM that he might make a rookie mistake sometime between October and April. This is called “being competitive,” not only by that rotund, ice fishing bozo drinking spiked coffee and burping upstairs in his suite in the Garden, but also by many of his adoring groupies, right here.

    And then, because a couple of us choose to directly confront these sobering and intrusive facts of life, the usual brigade of illiterate Banshees here refers to those of us who don’t ape the company line as “Fishsticks fans,” or some garbage. Like they know anything about the world beyond a Big Mac, a Big Gulp, and “wrestling” on TV.

  100. bonfire show me a Crosby or a Malkin in the NYR prospects. Like I said before you’ll be happy being a Pittsburg fan. You obviously don’t like anything about the NYR. Are you afraid to change? Just think, Jagr was a star there too , along with Mario. Now in your mind Jagr is a mercenary but Crosby & Malkin aren’t. Keep trying to convince yourself that your smarter than the rest of the world but don’t get a sore shoulder patting your own back.

  101. Robby Bonfire on

    our version of Staal is not on the super-star level of prospects, who could quickly take his place alongside those you mention? Christ, that is what I am fearful of, that that is Sather the Blather’s opinion, too.

    No, i am not smarter, honey, but much more of a risk-reward plunger, when it comes to rolling the dice on a potentially high-reward payoff, be it a young hockey player, or the investment arena.

  102. Both teams have a Staal, but the NYR’s is a defenseman, not even an offensive defenseman. You have to have brains to go along with taking risks. Sather had TGO & Messier just like Pitts has Crosby & Malkin. The NYR don’t. If they do, you name them or stuff it.

  103. Seamus: I do see your point. If the NHL had a soft cap like the NBA does then it would be a lot easier for teams to keep a nucleus of young players together. In the NBA you can sign your own free agents without having to worry about the cap.

    Anyway….is training camp here yet…can’t wait for September!!!!

  104. imagination- The Penguins may have superstars like Crosby, Malkin, etc. but sometimes a group of very good players mixed in with the right role players has a better chance to get it done than a team with a bunch of superstars.

  105. What do you guys think of working a lpatoon with Lundqvist and Montoya? Hank is your 1A, Montoya is your 1B. If Hank has a bad game, say he gives up 4 softies or something, the next night you throw Montoya in there. If Montoya throws a shutout o near shutout you ride him another night. If Montoya wins a 4-3 game the night after Hank had a bad game, Hank gets back in there. I think this is a good idea because it would keep Henrik fresh and it would give Montoya a crack at NHL experience, plus you get to showcase Montoya for a possible trade next offseason. This theory is all based on if Montoya is ready. If Montoya is a solid rookie and this is used, you could probably get Hank a good 60 games and Montoya in around 25 games.

  106. I don’t think the Rangers can afford Montoya under the Cap. At least that is what Dubi from blueshirt bulletin claims and he’s usually right on.

  107. “Aside from that, I don’t think it would take more than a foot long oscar meyer dropped down the back of your undies to keep a guy like you grinning, let alone $52M.”

    I just wanted to mention that this was wonderful Salty. =D

  108. “Seamus O Riley July 13th, 2007 at 5:10 pm

    Pavel Brendl is tearing it up in Europe! 70+ goals in the juniors….they said he would not work hard enough in the NHL to deliver…..

    Remember how NY fans loved Mike York? He was also not the most talented guy in the world but gave a lot.”

    Which is kind of funny because he turned into one of the laziest excuses for a player I have seen in a long time this year with the Flyers.

  109. GO NYR you’re not going to see Montoya because of what his salary would be 1.8 in the NHL unless they make cap space. Which would probably mean losing one or more of Mara, Malik, or Cullen. Then some of the guys here would get their wish of ‘kids’. Besides Montoya can’t even dominate the AHL, he still needs to improve to be a NHL goalie, just like most of the ‘kids’ in Hartford need to. Hollweg, Orr, Betts, Hossa, etc are the guys that should be fighting for jobs with the ‘kids’.And that’s where they should get their shot, on the 3rd or 4th lines not on the top 2. Every team needs a blend of ages & experience. Look at the Ducks, the Pens, and all the rest , they all do it. As do the NYR. Don’t forget how Pittsburg got Crosby, Malkin, and most of their kids, by coming in LAST. There aren’t many here willing to watch the NYR come in last, and look at who they picked when they had the chances, Jessimen & Montoya. They have improved in that area , so you’ll probably see Staal sometime this season.

  110. Doodie Machetto on

    via spectors trade rumors:

    “RALEIGH NEWS & OBSERVER: Luke DeCock reports Sheldon Souray’s signing with the Edmonton Oilers may have thrown in jeopardy a potential trade of centre Matt Cullen back to the Carolina Hurricanes. It was believed the NY Rangers might try to clear payroll space to sign Souray by moving Cullen, and DeCock doesn’t rule out the possibility of a Cullen trade if the Blueshirts stil need some extra cap space.

    Spector’s Note: Cullen claimed on Friday that a trade was news to him as he wasn’t seeking one. The Rangers still need to clear some cap space to re-sign Sean Avery and Marcel Hossa, but demoting Darius Kasparaitis to the minors would free up almost $3 million, which could give the Rangers the space they need. ”

    link to the story: http://www.newsobserver.com/796/story/636844.html

  111. bonfire… from Spirit airlnes..”Cheapano Fibonacci is back with his famous Fibonacci Friday! We are celebrating with fares as low as $1* each way! What a great way to start the weekend! We invite you to follow Cheapano’s number sequence to great fare sales. We are offering fares from $1*, $2*, $3*, $5*, $8*, $13*, $21*, $34*, $55*, $89*, $144* and $233* each way.”

  112. Montoya will not be the backup this season. Mark my words.

    Go NYR – Lundqvist is the type of goalie who gets better with more playing time. He was a workhorse in Sweden and will be one here, too. Expect him to play game totals in the high 60s and low 70s, meaning Valliquette is an adequate backup. Monty needs to play 50 or more games in a season. He almost did it last season, so this year, it would be good to see what he does on a 60-game schedule.

    But my thought is that Monty woun’t be around much longer anyway. I have a gut feeling that says Monty is Lundqvist insurance at this point, if the King ask for a Dipietro-like deal next season. As I said before, Monty can and should mature in Hartford for another year. If Lundqivst talks stall, then Montoya becomes the new number one. After this season, however, LaFleur should be close to comming into the system, which means look for a Montoya deal to be done the day Henrik inks a multi-year deal.

    Bonfire, Bonfire Bonfire…You want to talk Pittsburgh? Let’s talk Pittsburgh. The Penguins are an organization that can and does pride iteslf on having a handful of good seasons, winning a cup and then tanking for the next decade. They’re doing the SAME EXACT thing they did in the 80s, when in they secured six, count them, SIX top-five draft picks between 1984 and 1990. Among those draft picks were Mario Lemieux(first overall) and Jagr(fifth overall). How did they manage this, well try eight consecutive seasons of winning less than 35 games, among which they had two seasons where they failed to win 20 games; and six consecutive years where they didn’t make the playoffs.

    Then when the championship team was slowly dismantled during the 90s, they decided to pull the same gag. The traded Jagr, Kovalev, Kasparaitus, Straka, Lang and everyone else that made over a million dollars(with exception to Lemieux). They went four consecutive seasons winning less than 30 games(something, incidentally, the Rangers have NEVER done since the league converted to an 80+ game schedule)AND not making the playoffs(naturally). Some highlights of this bright spot in Penguins lore: defenseman Dick Tarnstrom leads the team in scoring in 2004, Rico Fata makes the Pens top-2 lines. Team owner Mario Lemieux comes out of retirement because the team can’t ice a first line. They trade Kovalev back to the Rangers for what ammounts to three career minor leaguers and a grinder.

    The net result of this tanking is that the Pens again get five top-5 picks in the draft. Among these top fives, two first-overalls and two second-overalls. As far as I know, and hockey aficianodos please correct me if I’m wrong, I’m not aware of a team that has had that kind of drafting luck in the modern history of the NHL.

    Yeah, Bonfire, you can go on and on about the Penguins. Sure, they’ve got the best nucleus to build around of perhaps any team in the NHL and arguably in the past three decades. I’d say its safe to say the names Crosby, Malkin and Staal will make their way onto the cup as Penguins someday, baring injury or calamity.

    But what you fail to understand in your diatribes is that teams CAN’T build like the Pens. If the Rangers lost those kinds of games, fans would light MSG on fire. Hell, people were fashioning nooses and lighting up the torches when the team’s winning percentage dipped to the low .400s in 2004. Just think what comments would be on this site if they did.

    So there exsist two posibilities for a “high market” team like the Rangers. First option, trade all the available assets, sign the biggest names and shoot the moon for the cup. The second option is secure a few top-notch names, draft wisely and hope that some of your picks turn out to be the Leetchs and the Richters that will push the team over the edge.

    There’s no other fiscal option. You can argue it until your blue in the face, no pun intended, but there will never EVER be a mass exodus of young players filling this team out like the Pens now have. What you WILL see is guys like Prucha, Callahan or even Cherepanov making steady inroads each year. Eventually, you’ll look at this team and see a solid base of mid-20s players.

    And lastly, if you think this squad is built around Jagr, you’re sorely mistaken. At this point, there’s one franchise player and his name is Lundqvist. Guys like Jagr, Straka and Shanahan are main contributors, but when it comes down to success, the burden rests on King Henrik’s shoulders. And by the way, he’s 25 years old.

  113. ORR Kicks Yin Yang on

    If we Re Sign Hossa….Will he play on the fourth line???

    Hopefully if we do get him he starts scoring…I said it in 05 – 06….its to early to give up on him….and it still is…

    Hossa Hossa Hoss…..Ole (hossa song)

  114. ORR

    I agree. HOssa really showed me something before he hurt his kneww. I aslo would like him on the PK where he is excellent to fill the void left by Jed.

  115. I’ve always been a Hossa supporter-
    He is not a 4th line player. The 4th line actually
    renders him quite useless.

    I remember the days on this blog when people
    were arguing the point with me that Hollweg has
    more offensive ability than Hossa…right-

  116. Hossa is one of those awkward players that lacks desire, energy, etc. He is not very interested in scoring, he is happy content just keeping the puck along the boards for 20 seconds. He is also not too intersted in hitting people so it hurt. He lacks hockey sense and quickness. And he is not using his size to his advantage by crashing the net and running people over.

  117. Hossais is still a work in progress.
    However, he is NOT a defensive liability and him
    being “content just keeping the puck along the board for
    20 seconds” actually creates scoring chances, and at the least, keeps the puck out of our oft weak defensive zone.

  118. Robby Bonfire on

    So winning championships in bunches and then breaking up the team for economic reasons, is lesser preferred as an organizational philosophy for success than just signing old guys, throwing them together in a bad chemistry mix where they compete with eachother for the puck and for fawning media attention – win NOTHING – and then go sailing off into retirement having taken the New York Rangers and their fans to the cleaners, as they and their agents laugh all the way to the bank.

    Great little blueprint for coming up empty you got there. At least the Rangers can take solace in the fact that they have a rope-a-dope fandom that buys into their default “management” style.

    And don’t hand me that “This is New York, we can’t do it the Pittsburght way or the fans will burn down the building, garbage.” I have heard excuses for losing in my time, but that is the most pathetic straw in the wind I have ever heard anyone try to grab. “Hey, we don’t want to win, we just want to be “popular” with the corporate season tix holders down at center ice who don’t know jack about hockey, and are three olive martinis beyond caring, anyway.”

  119. I think we can probably develop a hitter like Holweg, but one who can shoot the puck as well…but…
    what is really great is that we are actually debating DEPTH on our team. Only really optimistic teams, with strong leadership, goaltending and scoring do those sort of things….

    I have not been this optimistic in a very, very long time. If we tighten up our defense, (dump Malik of course), mix in the proper youth…..we are true Cup Contenders. We are for real. I cannot remember….maybe 1997, where I felt so positive about us..

  120. JohnRX wrote:
    Jon Rx July 14th, 2007 at 3:24 am
    “Seamus O Riley July 13th, 2007 at 5:10 pm
    Pavel Brendl is tearing it up in Europe! 70+ goals in the juniors….they said he would not work hard enough in the NHL to deliver…..
    Remember how NY fans loved Mike York? He was also not the most talented guy in the world but gave a lot.�
    Which is kind of funny because he turned into one of the laziest excuses for a player I have seen in a long time this year with the Flyers.>>

    John, I didn’t see him on the Flyers, but, if that is true, I am really shocked. He was always such a likeable bluecollar hard working Ranger. I was sorry to see him go.

    by the way, is the Rx because your a pharmacist or just into…well, you know.

  121. Seamus

    In 34 games with PHI last year, York had 4 goals and 4 assists and was a minus -9 with no points on the power play either.

    As a rookie in ’99 with the Rangers, he had 24 goals and 26 assists with 8 ppg’s and 4 ppa’s.

    I see Ryan Callahan as being a much better version of Mike York on this team for years to come.

  122. This team is definitely not built around Jagr anymore. And that simply starts witht he signings of Gomez and Drury and the letting go of Nylander. This team is buiilt around Lundqvist and the above mentioned now. Straka and Shanny are gone after next year. Staal, Prucha, Callahan, Dawes, Dubinsky, and hell, most of the team is in their 20’s. Girardi, Tyutin. You need to have some older players on the team folks. Yes, Drury and Gomez signed big contracts, and yes, probably for too long, but we got two centers in their prime who have played for winning teams and can play a great two way game. I think Gomez will be Jagrs center, but once jagr is gone and maybe even as soon as this year I can see him playing with Prucha and having some great chemistry. Gomez and Drury are very very fast skaters and great face off guys. This team is going to be very dangerous this year and for years to come.

  123. I think the rangers sent Brendal and other players to the flyers for Lindros and i do remember him playing for the flyers after that trade the next year but it didn’t last long because he was a bust.

  124. I’ve been a ranger fan since the late 60’s and the reason why the rangers never get the cream of the crop in the draft is because the rangers are always in the middle of the pack when it comes to drafting. This is the same agrument i use to have with islander fans when they were winning cups. The reason the islanders won those cups was because they were a new franchise and the first few years they were the worst team in hockey so they got all the cream of the crop draft choices. The rangers will never be that bad. Big market teams have pressure to win now because of the high ticket prices and clients they sell tickets to, it’s just the way it is and it will not change.

  125. Prucha and Mara for Souray and 2nd round draft choice in 2008…Would you make the deal? Lowe would get a forward, not Tomas Vanek, but a quality forward, and a big shooting Defenseman.

    The Rangers get more toughness and a more lethal Power Play.. Add an $800,000 cap hit…

    Still be left with upfront:

    Straka Gomez Jagr
    Avery Drury Shanahan
    Hossa Cullen Callahan
    Hollweg Betts Orr
    Dawes Anisimov Bourret
    Byers Dubinsky Moore

  126. Sam, any legit word on potential changes to the defensive corps this off-season?

  127. Rick – the Souray saga was beaten to death. he would kill our cap for 5 yrs. A big no to him coming here. that train has left the station.

  128. Really, enough of Souray, he signed with the oilers, end of story, can we please move on.

  129. ORR Kicks Ivana's A$$ on

    For the love of god…Souray is done…He’s with the Oilers…theres no point in talking about him anymore…Why are NYR fans so quick to give up prucha because 1 bad season….He didnt even have a bad friggin season….

    Damn….Wolf Pack fans hate our guts now…We steal one of there best D man and Foward….now there coach….Gravy should be the pack coach….

    I was watching a bit of that horrible game against the isles….What are the devs thinking…signing Weekes….he let alot of Week goal in….Im glad he’s gone

  130. Robby Bonfire on

    Don’t anyone mention that this team missed the playoffs for seven consecutive years. So much for pandering to the corporate-types who insist upon winning “now,” or they will burn the building down, which is still standing, last time I looked, three days ago.

    If the Rangers ALWAYS finish in the middle of the pack and never get the great draft choices, accordingly, something needs to be changed – like adopting Pittsburgh’s formula of building a dynasty, breaking it down, and building the next dynasty with the best of the draft choices. So what if there are lean years in between? Yankee fans don’t talk about finishing 10th and last in 1966, they talk about 26 world championships.

    Look at the Islanders from 1973-1980 – from the bottom of the pit to the top of the mountain, what, four straight years. You mean it wasn’t worth it to them? What the hell was “1940” we had to suffer, all about? It was about the Islander dynasty of the early 80’s being rubbed in our faces, it was not about their being perhaps the worst team in NHL history in 1973.

    Why are so many here afraid of paying the dues which plant the seeds of success? What I would give to see this team win three straight Cups five-seven years from now and screw the Dark Ages losses we have to suffer on the way to getting there. We missed the playoffss seven straight years and have NOTHING to show for it. Damn, we need to finish dead-last for awhile, it appears. Not winning the Stanley Cup is the price teams pay for signing older FA’s and finishing in the middle of the pack, year after year. Good teams take their lumps and build from within with talented kids, they don’t scap the hull of the ship every two or three years and try to build a new one overnight with the next round of old-boy signings. I wish this franchise would really play the game to WIN, once in a blue moon.

  131. a casual observer on

    “Hossa is one of those awkward players that lacks desire, energy, etc. He is not very interested in scoring, he is happy content just keeping the puck along the boards for 20 seconds. He is also not too intersted in hitting people so it hurt. He lacks hockey sense and quickness. And he is not using his size to his advantage by crashing the net and running people over.”
    Chahlik hit that right on the head!
    Let him be a work in progress elsewhere.
    Their are too many hungry kids in Hartford.

  132. ORR Kicks Ivana's A$$ on

    ROBBY

    Just as Avery would say…..your a whiner….Nothing but crying coming from you….

    How many times do i have to read “Win Now”….Shut up already….

    Im damn happy with the team…as are most NYR fans….the rest can go to hell or watch Bill Guerin work his magic with the fish….

  133. Tom G even when they have gotten the top picks they have not been smart or lucky enough so far. Trying to convince some of the kids here that this is a business not a fantasy league is futile. There are more than enough armchair GMs & coaches here that if they were in charge the team would get the 1st pick every year and then trade them a few years later because of their age. But they want home grown like they’re vegetables. What you don’t realize is someday Bonfire is going to buy the NYR and handpick the team & the fans with the help of his fantasy friend, who posts here with many different names.Since you’re a fan from the sixties, you’re too old too ;-)

  134. If Marc Stall makes this team next year I will be surprised. If he does surprise me, Stall will play 5 minutes a game. The Rangers need to dump Malik and sign Sutton or another year of booing will begin. Including me.

  135. ORR Kicks Ivana's A$$ on

    Staal has to be ready by now….He’s just getting better…

    I dont understand….some brainless NYR fans say….”NYR never let there youth play”..

    Then finally NYR are about to play 2 of there top prospects…in Montoya and Staal…and you people are bitching and moaning saying there not ready…

    Now Montoya may not be….But i think NYR should give him a shot somewhere down the line…..

    As for Staal….Eric was good his first year….Jordan was good his first year….I doubt NYR is so cursed that they picked the worst one….

  136. Robby Bonfire on

    Well, since you (imagination) are conferring ownership of the New York Rangers upon me, the first thing I would do is: Trash – Jagr, Straka, Shanahan, Malik, Mara, Strudwick, Pock, and, need I say it, Kas and Ozone. Nylander, Isbister, and Weekes, of course, would have just about headed the list, but those Titanic pot holes, mercifully, are history.

    Every kid in the system who can skate, shoot, and check, would be up here, starting with Staal, and Sanguinetti, and Sauer, and Liffiton, and Baranka and filling in with the Dubinsky-Dawes crowd, up front, with Montoya, getting 25-30 regular season starts between the pipes. Rozival would be the senior citizen on the team.

    And the Garden crowd, night after night, would go nuts cheering and supporting these young men as they mature and gain confidence and continually raise the bar of their own and their collective productivity. And I would ride it out with this group, not panic if, in year one they miss the playoffs and irate “fans” call for my head, and for the building to be burned down. Fair weather / front-runner fans are a dime a dozen, anyway, and they will be the first to jump on the bandwagon when the sun peeks through the clouds. In fact, if what you are doing is popular with the fans, you should re-evaluate what you are doing, and scrap that approach.

    Now, what’s your plan? Even got one?

  137. I’m not saying Stall is not ready. The Rangers aren’t ready for him. The Rangers need a hitting d man and a pp quarterback. Stall is none of the above. He fits if he replaces Malik. Because they both play positional d. We need a mean son of gun back there or we are going nowhere. And we need points and goals from the blueline or again, we are going nowhere.

  138. JohnM, I totally agree with your statement except about going nowhere. What the rangers have now should get them to at least the second round of the playoffs but to win the cup they have to improve that defense. How that is going to happen, I don’t know and considering the rangers cap is tight it will be hard to do.

  139. Bonfire my plan would be to burn yours. In case you didn’t notice the NYR made it to the playoffs last 2 years. They have added a #2 center that they needed & replaced their #1 which hopefully will be as good or better. They let Ortmeyer walk, he will be missed but hopefully not in the winning sense. They need a tough D man, maybe Staal will be able to step in. They could use a better backup goalie, but there’s a cap so Montoya doesn’t fit nor is he ready. Last years TEAM developed chemistry, so the changes need to be kept to a minimum. They need to resign Avery & Hossa….”…: Trash – Jagr, Straka, Shanahan,…” that might happen after next year, definitely the year after. But if you think the NYR have 2 kids that can replace 2 HOF players that’s a real stretch of your ‘imagination’. Since most of the guys you want will be in Hartford, that team should go wire to wire in the AHL if they are NHL ready. …. So when are you buying the team and having your bonfire sale?

  140. JohnM- Do you know what your talking about? We are talking about defenseman, not fourth line forward. There is no way Staal can only play 5 minutes a game as a defenseman. He has to play at least 15 minutes a game, no matter what. The other defensemen would be dead after having to play extra minutes for the time that Staal would be sitting. He is gonna be a shutdown d-man. Why wouldyou not want a player that has been compared to Chris Pronger when it comes to taking control of games and shutting down offenses. The guy played 25 minutes a game in juniors. Im thinking we can expect Staal to step in and be at least a 2nd pairing d-man this season

  141. Go NYR

    I explained my feelings i\about where s
    Staal fits in and who he would be able to replace in my second post.

  142. imagination- Seeing where the Rangers are sitting right now, I dont think there is any way at all that they dont unload some salary to give themselves some space to wiggle. I think moving Mara could be the most realistic option. This would give us 3 million more to work with, making the total space 5 mill. This way we can go about our business and sign Hossa.

  143. JohnM- Youre telling me the Rangers need a mean defensemen to win a cup? Why? Being mean doesnt keep pucks out of the net. Ask Kasparaitis and Aaron Ward. I dont see why they need a mean defensemen to win the cup. Plus, I have seen Marc Staal hit hard as anyone. I will look for the video for you.

  144. GO NYR/ John M/ TomG I agree ,they need a D man. Renney might even go with 7 D in games. They can probably get by with what they have if he can get them to ‘ shoot the puck’. But to try & win The Cup Sather will have to get one ASAP. Mara &/or Malik top the list of guys he’d have to move along with his ‘dark horse’ Kaspar.

  145. BlueClue July 14th, 2007 at 1:45 pm
    Seamus
    In 34 games with PHI last year, York had 4 goals and 4 assists and was a minus -9 with no points on the power play either.
    As a rookie in ‘99 with the Rangers, he had 24 goals and 26 assists with 8 ppg’s and 4 ppa’s.
    I see Ryan Callahan as being a much better version of Mike York on this team for years to come.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    good post. I didn’t follow Yorkie, but you make sense. thanks.

  146. Robby of the Bonfire wrote:

    Robby Bonfire July 14th, 2007 at 5:17 pm
    Well, since you (imagination) are conferring ownership of the New York Rangers upon me, the first thing I would do is: Trash – Jagr, Straka, Shanahan, Malik, Mara, Strudwick, Pock, and, need I say it, Kas and Ozone. Nylander, Isbister, and Weekes, of course, would have just about headed the list, but those Titanic pot holes, mercifully, are history.
    Every kid in the system who can skate, shoot, and check, would be up here, starting with Staal, and Sanguinetti, and Sauer, and Liffiton, and Baranka and filling in with the Dubinsky-Dawes crowd, up front, with Montoya, getting 25-30 regular season starts between the pipes. Rozival would be the senior citizen on the team.
    And the Garden crowd, night after night, would go nuts cheering and supporting these young men as they mature and gain confidence and continually raise the bar of their own and their collective productivity. And I would ride it out with this group, not panic if, in year one they miss the playoffs and irate “fans� call for my head, and for the building to be burned down. Fair weather / front-runner fans are a dime a dozen, anyway, and they will be the first to jump on the bandwagon when the sun peeks through the clouds. In fact, if what you are doing is popular with the fans, you should re-evaluate what you are doing, and scrap that approach.
    Now, what’s your plan? Even got one?>>>>

    really fascinating post. Extremely ambitious. However, if you keep (for this year) Jagr, Stratka and Shanny and DUMP everyone else you said and PLAY those kids….with what we have between the pipes, we have a contender that is YOUNG. Next year, we go at it without Jags, Shanny and Stratka.

    The only thing I disagree is with Montoya. Lundqvst has proven that he plays well with a heavy work load.

    The only way I’d backpeddle on Jags is someone blew our doors off with an offer of real talent that is YOUNG.

    Also —with YOUR plan as is, you would NOT miss the playoffs….

    one thought to ponder for this year:

    What happens when Jags gets double-teamed? Gomez will make them pay, over and over. he is sitting on a career year with Jagr on the line. Jagr is a world class talent, but has never been a favorite of mine (has to do with attitude, keeping him happy, really bad haircuts, etc) but conservatively, Gomez scores 30 goals and 70 assists. More? a real possibility.

  147. Seamus…”with YOUR plan as is, you would NOT miss the playoffs…”
    do you want to buy a bridge?

  148. Robby Bonfire on

    You see, “imagination” timing is critical. I want to make critical Stanley Cup winning foundational moves NOW, you want to make the same moves, NEXT YEAR.

    Moving aggressively BEFORE the fact – being pro-active, beats the hell out of moving passively AFTER the fact. He who gets there first gets the gold. The Rangers chronically move too late as regards moving players along. And I didn’t say anyone from the farm could replace, on ability, the two top older forwards I would jettison, immediately, as you imply. I am looking at their age and not letting them become declining production mossbacks on my watch. I’m on the express elevator to the penthouse. You are on the escalator to the coffee shop.

  149. “Now, what’s your plan? Even got one?”

    my plan is give prospects the benefit of the doubt instead of vets. Also not to overpay anyone by much, especially if you have other options. Overall have a fast, mean, hard working team without any useless goons or softies or psychotic selfish captains like Jagr or Messier. I want 29 other teams crap their pants in fear of playing against this team. I would keep trading all the leftover surplus that isn’t in the plans for picks to ensure stable bright future.

  150. Wow, that was some hit by Marc Staal on that youtube video. I didn’t realize how big he is. He is 19 years old and already 6’4″ and 205. When he fills out in a few years and with some weight training he will be about 225-230. That is a big boy and plenty big to be a physical presence.

    The Marc Staal era starts this year. He will be the missing piece of the puzzle. I feel it in my Ranger bones.

  151. I think the game plan is good the way it is.Over the past 2 years, we have seen the slow yet steady injection youth into a lineup that was built up of mainly veterans in 05-06. Now we fan solidified the one organizational weakness for the next 5 years by signing Drury and Gomez. Now as guys like Jagr, Straka, and Shanny get older and retire, you insert the kids in your system such as Bourett, Dawes and Cherepanov. Next year a few defensemen like Mara, Malik and Rozsival are UFAs. (keep Rozy is a debatable topic)Now these defensemen are replaced with the likes of Sanguinetti and Sauer. Then as Jagr, Straka and Shanny move on, you insert the likes of Petr Prucha, Ryan Callahan into the top line spots and if Cherepanov is a star like he very well could he is a top liner. So then your lines look like these in a few years:

    Prucha-Gomez-Cherepanov
    Borrett-Drury-Callahan
    Dawes-Anisimov-Korpikosky
    Byers-Dubinsky-???

    Then your D looks like this

    Sauer-Staal
    Girardi-Tyutin
    Sanguinetti-Rozsival

    Goalie A-Hank
    Goalie B-Wiikman or Lafleure

    Plus you dont know what we can get with Montoya

    I think if things turn out right, this team would be very solid. And Built 90% from within. This is what I think they are trying to do and it seems like a good plan for success in the future. This team could be successful for years to come.

    This is my plan and could very well be what they are trying to do

  152. So Bonfire – 1st off Ozo is off the team already. why did you even mention him. 2nd – by your youth statements I would think you would be hankering to remove Hank who will after all be 26 in March. Why don’t you bring up Lafleur now before The King begins his inevitable decline. And you’ve already implied Tyutin is too old at 24 (well next week he will be). 3rd – are you really a 16 year old girl that just wants boys your own age on the team.

  153. LI Joe your wasting your energy. This blog has been overrun by mostly clueless kids who want kids only on the NYR. They heard rebuild 3 years ago and won’t let go. Hartford has plenty of empty seats for these guys to fill, so they can watch the ‘kids’. And they make lineups too. Mine is better than your’s, nah nah nah nah nah;-) …Just think of all the kids they can get in return by trading Lundie. They want Montoya.

  154. sather and kevin lowe are tight…can anyone see a cullen/malik for souray trade in the works?

  155. Why the hell are some of you STILL going on about Souray?! Give it up!! Edmonton just signed the guy, they aren’t going to trade him! And we don’t need him!

  156. NJ Mark – at this point I think certain people are saying that bs just to get a reaction. that’s my guess with nakedjoe here.

  157. Larry Brooks….sometimes I really appreciate that he writes as a fan. Other times, I feel he is being manipulative and dishonest…

    today, he was just funny.

    Rosival worth 6 million dollars per year as a “top” defenseman and “the Rangers know it” (about next year).

    Next, he will print that Malik’s +\- stats MUST be taken into consideration for Hall of Fame voting.

    by the way, regarding the playoffs……………buying a bridge would be more suited for someone who thinks that this team, even sans Jags and Shanny, completely miss the playoffs. We have a really solid team. A few holes, but not many. If youth play, and we dump Malik and perhaps Mara……………….look out.

  158. Seamus O Riley ,
    That’s the key, replace Mara and malik on defense with people who can play defense and as long as the rangers stay healthy than the rangers could go far in to the playoffs.

  159. let’s see that’s 158 points in the regular season & 18 points in the playoffs rhis past season. Can you name the 2 kids that can replace Jagr & Shanahan’s points? How about buying a tunnel to come out of the kool-aid induced vision. In case you weren’t paying attention, they almost missed the playoffs .

  160. Bonfire – Humor me and answer these questions: do you read my posts or just the first lines of them? Second, have you seen ANY of the players you mention in your philisophy of ownership, aside from the brief glimpses at Dawes and Dubinsky last season? Have you gone to a Pack game before?

    After you answer these questions, allow me to once disect your now hackneyed calls for a “youth movement.” Leading off, let’s consider the Isles of the 1973-1980, the worst-to-first sensation. While I was trying to find a team that had anywhere near the drafting sucess of the Penguins, the only two teams that came up were the Canadiens of the late 60s and you guessed it, the Islanders of the early 70s. They had three consecutive top-5 picks, with which they drafted Billy Harris, Clark Gillies and none other than Denis Potvin. The later, as any diehard Ranger fan will tell you, arguably prevented the Blueshirts from winning the cup in 1979 by injuring Ulf Nilsson during the regular season; hence the chant. In all, the Isles drafted two team captains, arguably the most dominant defensemen of the time and a combined eight cup rings in the draft; Harris didn’t wear any of them and was traded for Kings’ Butch Goring, who was with all the championship teams.

    Now, you continue to claim this market COULD do what the Penguins did. I vehemently disagree. Hockey is a minor part of New York City. It plays third wheel to the Yankees, Mets, Knicks and the Giants, which aren’t even in the city. Sure they’ll draw fans even with a stinker team. But they won’t draw John Q. Corporate, who rents out a $5,000-per-game box seat so that his imports from Russia or the European Union can watch the biggest hockey stars on the planet. Hence why guys like Lindros, Bure, Gretzky and others made a stop here on their way to retirement. It sells seats to fair-weather fans, but those seats are usually more expensive than the $36 nose-bleed ones I will always buy.

    But for argument’s sake, I’ll agree there’s a slight chance the team could stock primarily with Hartford kids, provided there were a three or four big names inked(and I won’t even get into the fact that many “big names” won’t sign with teams going through a rebuild). You would still have a very mediocre team at this point. I’ve seen the Pack play and haven’t seen much down there that is NHL-ready. There are guys that show great promise, but they’re NOT ready. They need to work on their skills against players that are at or above their level, not miles above their level. I agree with the ideology that playing with great players improves your ability, but there’s a bell curve where this gets counter productive.

    Take Dubinsky for example. He looked decent in his first NHL stint, but he by no means looked dominant. Look at Pittsburgh’s Malkin, Staal and Crosby; they clearly look like they belong here. Dubinsky has the tools, he’s just a step behind

    Look at the Islanders from – from the bottom of the pit to the top of the mountain, what, four straight years. You mean it wasn’t worth it to them? What the hell was “1940� we had to suffer, all about? It was about the Islander dynasty of the early 80’s being rubbed in our faces, it was not about their being perhaps the worst team in NHL history in 1973

    conomic reasons, is lesser preferred as an organizational philosophy for success than just signing old guys, throwing them together in a bad chemistry mix where they compete with eachother for the puck and for fawning media attention – win NOTHING – and then go sailing off into retirement having taken the New York Rangers and their fans to the cleaners, as they and their agents laugh all the way to the bank.

    Great little blueprint for coming up empty you got there. At least the Rangers can take solace in the fact that they have a rope-a-dope fandom that buys into their default “management� style.

    And don’t hand me that “This is New York, we can’t do it the Pittsburght way or the fans will burn down the building, garbage.� I have heard excuses for losing in my time, but that is the most pathetic straw in the wind I have ever heard anyone try to grab. “Hey, we don’t want to win, we just want to be “popular� with the corporate season tix holders down at center ice who don’t know jack about hockey, and are three olive martinis beyond caring, anyway.�

    Well, since you (imagination) are conferring ownership of the New York Rangers upon me, the first thing I would do is: Trash – Jagr, Straka, Shanahan, Malik, Mara, Strudwick, Pock, and, need I say it, Kas and Ozone. Nylander, Isbister, and Weekes, of course, would have just about headed the list, but those Titanic pot holes, mercifully, are history.

    Every kid in the system who can skate, shoot, and check, would be up here, starting with Staal, and Sanguinetti, and Sauer, and Liffiton, and Baranka and filling in with the Dubinsky-Dawes crowd, up front, with Montoya, getting 25-30 regular season starts between the pipes. Rozival would be the senior citizen on the team.

    And the Garden crowd, night after night, would go nuts cheering and supporting these young men as they mature and gain confidence and continually raise the bar of their own and their collective productivity. And I would ride it out with this group, not panic if, in year one they miss the playoffs and irate “fans� call for my head, and for the building to be burned down. Fair weather / front-runner fans are a dime a dozen, anyway, and they will be the first to jump on the bandwagon when the sun peeks through the clouds. In fact, if what you are doing is popular with the fans, you should re-evaluate what you are doing, and scrap that approach.

    Now, what’s your plan? Even got one?

  161. Robby Bonfire on

    Thanks, Seamus, although your cogent observation is not on my behalf, or in support of any position I take, you have the guts to go against the crowd, when your opinion differs from “popularity polls.”

  162. Robby Bonfire on

    TDCHI – The Rangers Not winning the Cup in 1979 was related to several variables beyond just Denis Potvin- Ulf Nilsson. First, timing AGAIN, for the Rangers was unfortunate, as the 1979 Canadiens are a match for any of the Montreal dynasty teams from the 50’s – talking the teams featuring Doug Harvey, Maurice Richard, Jean Beliveau, Dickie Moore, Bernie Geoffrion, Jacques Plante – some of the greatest players ever to lace a skate in the NHL. But the 1979 Montreal Dryden crew could have played them at least on even terms. discounting that of course players get bigger, stronger and faster with each generation.

    In 1972 the Rangers also got truly unlucky, as that is the year the Boston Orr-Esposito team peaked. Plus Jean Ratelle, showing 46 goals on March 1st that year, was injured that night by a slap shot by one of his own D’s, Dale Rolfe, so that he went down for the year. Had Espo been hit by an Orr slapshot instead, I think we know what the outcome of the 1972 season would have been.

    Also, in 1979, the Rangers were missing Dave Middleton, who was donated to Boston in one of most lopsided trades in NHL history, by that mole GM down here from Montreal, John Ferguson. They also were missing outstanding young center, Wayne Dillon, who retired early in his career, for reasons best known to him. Plus, heavy-sniper Don Murdoch was all screwed up, after showing so much promise, from becoming the Steve Howe of the NHL – enough said.

    So that, I am saying, you would have to add a healthy Nilsson, Middleton, Dillon, and Murdoch to that Ranger club just to have a chance vs. that Montreal juggernaught. Even so, this was an especially fine Ranger team and when they won game one in Montreal, and took a 2-0 lead in game two, things were looking promising, but then the roof collapsed, so to speak, and Montreal ran us out of town.

    In answer to your question re seeing Hartford play – no I haven’t. I would like to, but here’s the thing – what I give you is my philosophy of building a team. And as a statistician who relies on a vast accumulation of information in MANY areas I keep track of, from sports to FOREX investing, I find, that at least in my case, my numbers are superior to my visual-observational skills, which have always been limited. The best case in point is the fact that I am truly one of the most knowledgeable, skilled, and successful horse players on the planet – without going to the races all that much. I am more in-depth knowledgeable than 99% of those who park it on the rail for a race and who “see” a jockey pull a horse in a race, or whatever, for whatever value that entails.

    In fact, visual impressions, I find, can truly get in the way of objective findings, as so much emotion attached to visual impressions can considerably cloud judgment. So often we see what we want to see, and what we see “validates” the preconception we brought with us – “Malik is a bum,” so we see him make a mistake, but not a game saving play – to cite one example. So there are different ways of valid evaluation and often times first hand observation, while helpful at times. can be self-defeating, as well.

  163. I thnk the best situation for dealing with Montoya, no matter where he starts, is to make sure we get a first round draft pick next year for him and somebody else who can help us this year, maybe an expriing contract if possible, in the event of a season-ending injury, especially if we are in the top five of the conference. This way, we get someone that could help lead us to the Cup this year, a la Carolina a couple seasons ago, along with a stud to help us in the future, since this draft is going to be good. This may just be fantasy because we can’t get that much for Montoya unless he starts playing better, at the AHL or NHL level, but maybe we could trade one or two later round picks along with him to get the job done. Trust me about this draft, very good players coming up.

  164. So, Bonfire, am I to understand from the last part of your discussion that you don’t actually ever watch the Rangers? There’s more then just numbers to team sports; the players actually have to play together, unlike in horce racing where the horses are all against each other. That’s great that you use statistics, but I don’t see you running a successful hockey team.

  165. Bonfire – ot course the 70 Canadiens would have beaten the 50’s versions. As you’ve always stated re age the 50’s versions would gave been at least in their 50’s by 79′.

    who is Dave Middleton. any relation to Rick.

    BTW you never answered my question in your king for a day spiel. would you get rid of Henrik and give the goaltender spot to Lafleur. According to you Henrik is about ready for his inevitable decline based on advancing age. Montoya is a little younger but Lafleur is even younger. Voila there is your goalie for the enxt 4 yrs before alas he gets too old too.

  166. Sam – we all know year after this one is an option for Jaromir Jagr, if we choose to keep him (I believe we will) do we have to pay him 8.25M or still half of his payroll will be covered by Capitals? Could you please clear this for me? If we have to pay him 8.25M our cap will be destroyed by three players…

  167. stf – 4 players incl The King. that is a very good question. did you pose it on other blogs like blueshirt bulletin; outside the garden and hockey futures.

  168. Bonfire – do you enjoy Rangers hockey? Not the math or the stats, but the game? The crowds? The allegiance to a team? What’s the equation for fun?

  169. No surprise to see Larry Brooks already pushing for a return of Bobby Holik to NY. All that guy did while he was here was give Brooks quotes…

  170. Bonfire: I understand your point about stats, but I still have to disagree. Stats are good for deconstructing a more individual-oriented games, such as baseball. But in hockey, there are simply too many variables that are intangible on paper; everything from attitudes to the way guys mesh to the intelligence of a line. That’s exactly why bringing up anyone under the age of 23 isn’t a sure-fire answer.

    From personal experience having played hockey for the better part of two decades, I’ve found the young kids, guys between the ages of 16 and 21 with specific regards to the more talented ones, typically have an attitude of infallibility and arrogance; they think they can run the game, they look for the difficult shot instead of the easy pass, they’ll go through three guys in the center instead of working with their linemates. Understandably, I’ve never played at a level even close to the NHL, aside from playing with several NHLers and former draftpicks in beer leagues. But there’s a sort of maturity that comes with age in the sport. It’s not learned, it’s developed.

    That said, allow me to finish my last point, which is that there IS talent down in Hartford. But the Pack team I last saw around the top of last season was dreadful at the AHL level. They had a bunch of new players that were just starting to feel each other out. Six months earlier, they looked to have a good unit going; Dawes looked good, so did Byers and Korpikoski(who had just joined the team). Montoya looked plain aweful, as did Jessiman. What I saw, however, was a team that was immature and needed lots of work. Mind you, both of these experiences were a whole season ago. I didn’t get to see them in January when they last pulled through my area.

    What the vets bring to a team is a good clip of experience. This is integral in developing cohesive lines with chemistry. I’m all for the youthful exuberance of the young guys. Hell, I play pickup with a bunch of kids once a week and it’s a thrill to see that level of energy and talent. But it doesn’t do squat in the bigs until they learn how to work with one another as a unit, if that makes any sense.

    I’d make this prediction: about a third of the players in Hartford right now(including the ones that will be there next year) will make the show; about half of those players will have successful careers, which is a very good quotient to have in the system. But if you rush them into the bigs when they’re not ready, it will be self-defeating; case in point: Lundmark, who will probably never breakout because he never developed any sense when the team pulled him out of juniors early and rushed him to the NHL. Oh he’s got talent alright, but it’s untapped and four clubs now have given up on trying to find it. Then there’s Malhotra, the poster child for getting rushed. He was drafted as the captain-to-be of the Rangers, then had his confidence dashed by being rushed into the league. Think about how this settles with a 19-year-old: playing 73 games along side Gretzky, only to be bounced around the junior leagues and Hartford the next year. He’s just now becoming part of the player everyone thought he would be. And of course, Danny Blackburn. His career was RUINED by being rushed to the bigs. People say his accident was “freak” and whatnot. But the fact remains, he pushed himself way too hard for his age. Why? Because he was passed up for the starters’ job when the Rangers traded for Dunham. The kid was trying to proove something to the management and ended his career in the process. Even to a lesser extent, the Rangers should have told Jessiman to finish out his college years with Dartmouth. His rushing to the Pack definitly tempered his ability to make the NHL(which, as I’ve espoused before, ain’t happening).

    For these examples, I doubt you’ll see another kid rushed along during Sather’s tenure as GM unless in the very unforeseable event, they secure a top-5 draft pick. Again, I’ll point you to the dynamic the Sabres have used: they don’t throw thier kids into the mix until they have at least a season or two in Rochester. They groom them there for a pair of seasons, teach the plays they run in Buffalo and move them in as spaces or talent provides. That’s exactly what’s going on in Hartford.

    Lastly, I also have to say, Ranger fans in particular seem to OVERATE many of the young kids in the system. Then, when the management doesn’t play them, they get upset and claim the team is stifling development. True, there have been cases where this is indeed what has happened, case in point the three mentioned above. Jessiman is actually a PRIME example of this. Even recently, people on this site have pined for him to have a roster spot, when he can’t even dominate in the ECHL and is most likely just a really bad draft pick. These people have never seen Hugh play, they just go off of the dung the team was shoveling when he was drafted; they assume because he was a top pick, he’s worth a shot. But what they don’t SEE is that Jessiman doesn’t use his size, couldn’t hit the net if it were an empty soccer goal and skates like molasses flows. And trust me when I say this: seeing in hockey IS believing.

  171. I keep reading about Jovocop coming to the rangers. I really don’t think we need this guy at all. What people are failing to realize is that in years past a major flaw of our team was defense. But that was also because we didn’t play team defense and we left our dmen and goalie out to dry. The last two years we have started playing team defense and that is only going to get better this year with the additions of Gomez and Drury. The defensemen we have right now can get the job done as long as the rest of the team come back and play two way hockey. I am not saying that everyone on this team is capable of this, but a majority of our players can. This is also a reason I say we keeo Cullen as a third line center. The guy has wheels and he is good at getting back and helping out. If getting Jovo costs us Cullen I say no way. If it costs us Malik or Mara or both, so be it. I want Staal on this team this year also. I would not mind our dmen this season being Rozy, Tyutin, Girardi, Staal, Jovo, and Pock with Struds being the 7th.

  172. “How’s this for a double dose of class: Scott Gomez offered Blair Betts $10,000 for his #19. Betts gave him the number but did not accept the money.”

    I don’t get it the guy gets 52 million dollars, then isults poor Betts and makes him give up his number.

  173. How is that an insult? It would be like me offering you 10 cents to use your screen name on here and you telling me not to worry about it and let me use it, not that I would want to of course.

  174. And then me taking my 10 cents and going to buy two pieces of Bazooka bubble gum for the homeless guy who lives in the park near my house.

  175. hopefully we do

    Cullen, Kasparaitis and Mara for Jovanovski

    and

    Malik and Betts for Lundqvist and Ott

    and

    Hossa, Dawes and Pock for a 2nd rounder, 4th rounder

    Drury-Straka-Jagr
    Shanahan-Gomez-Callahan
    Prucha-Lundqvist-Avery
    Byers/Hollweg-Ott-Moore

    Jovanovski-Staal
    Tyutin-Girardi
    Rozsival-Baranka

  176. And yes, the corner store near my place still sells it for 5 cents each. Regular, Cherry, or Grape. And yes, it still loses it flavor after 12 seconds, but the feeling you get when you pop it in your mouth and read the little comic makes you think of two things. The community pool, or rides home after hockey practice.

  177. Sure, why don’t we just revamp the whole frigin team, this way we have no chemistry and spend half the season trying to find some. Then we can wait and bit our nails all the way through the 82 game to see if we are going to make it in to the playoffs or to see if we are the 6, 7, or 8 spot. You have got to be kidding me.

  178. “How is that an insult? It would be like me offering you 10 cents to use your screen name on here and you telling me not to worry about it and let me use it, not that I would want to of course.”

    first of all trying to buy off a number is insulting. He should have just asked and if Betts agreed he would buy him a nice present because cash would be refused 99% of the time. And the amount ($10,000)is too large to be normal for something like a number and makes Gomez look like a rich asshole and is too small compared to his 52 million contract. Betts must already hate the guy’s guts. This Ex Devil hits the jackpot then puts Betts in a situation where he has no choice but to give up his number and not even get any compensation present for it.

  179. Robby Bonfire on

    RICK Middleton. of course, and thank you for the correction. I saw him play as a Ranger and as a Bruin, and it is almost impossible that Ferguson would trade him, at 23, for 33-year old Ken Hodge.

    I have stated it before and it bears repeating, that part of the idea in bringing up kids sooner, rather than later, is to sort them out as to which can cut it and which should be shipped out of the organization. No one expects ALL kids promoted from Hartford or Charlotte or the OHL to make the grade. But consider this – the sooner you send a kid who can’t cut it packing, the sooner you open his roster spot (Hartford or New York) to the next recruit who may make the grade. It is self-defeating and cost-prohibitive to “train” a player for two or three years down there, and then ship him out. Ideally, everyone being groomed at the AHL level has at least some chance of holding a regular NHL job, one day, but many hit their ceiling in the AHL.

    I am saying I have the willingness to take the heat for some young player failures in the big time, in the quest to find some gems and nuggets, among the candidates.

  180. Ferguson was forced into making the Middleton for Hodge trade by spoiled brat Phil Esposito who wanted his buddy Hodge on NYR. Probably the worst trade in NYR history. That just compounded the other crappy trade the Rangers made with the Bruins getting Espo and Vadnais for Park and Ratelle.

  181. Robby Bonfire on

    Chris F. asks a fair question: “Do you enjoy Rangers hockey?” The answer is emphatically “yes,” since attending my first Ranger game at the age of 13 and falling in love with the team and the sport of hockey, immediately.

    Many here, I am not alone, are more than just “fans,” we are also highly critical of the organization’s glaring blunders in roster composition decisions, trades, FA signings, drafting, and waiver wire transactions, over the years.

    Because I am unforgiving of the Lindros trade acquisition, to cite the best example in the Sather era, doesn’t mean I care any less about the team’s fortune, it just means that I see situations through a critical faculty as much as through a “fan club” perspective. You spank your son, it doesn’t mean you don’t love your son. You criticise a GM, who is on a different page than you are, doesn’t mean you are not devoted to the organization. In fact, it means you care enough to want to see the organization do better.

    I have known a lot of heartache in my time supporting this team, and can recall the depression of many early summers in the aftermath of so many playoff disappointments for this team. The Rangers are my favorite sports team on the planet, and that is saying something considering how passionate I am for the Phillies, Eagles, and UCLA Bruins stemming from my four years living adjacent to the campus in Westwood, and 13 years living in that area. So when I say the New York Rangers are my favorite of all my sports teams, it means something, at least to me.

  182. “I keep reading about Jovocop coming to the rangers. I really don’t think we need this guy at all”

    Jovanovski is what we need if we are to win a Cup. Jovanovski is same age as Souray, but better in almost every way. When his contract expires he will be 35. He is the mean physical scoring defenseman that we need, sort of like a poor man’s Pronger. And he is likely hungry to get his hands on the Cup, unlike Gomez, Shanahan, Cullen, Drury, Jagr.

    He also could be a good leader and mentor for Staal, Girardi, Sanguinetti, Liffiton, Baranka, Sauer, etc.

    He gives us a needed #1 defenseman and meanness while dumping the un-needed pieces like Mara, Cullen and Kasparaitis.

  183. Robby Bonfire on

    CLIFF – No GM is FORCED by any player into making a trade the GM views as detrimental to the team. Yes, Espo and Hodge were linemates in Chicago and Boston, but did not have to be linemates here, as well. I mean, why not bring in Cashman and some others to appease Espo, also? What were we here in NY, a friggin’ Bruins reunion club?

    I am really sorry Jean Ratelle relented and decided to report to Boston, after considering retirement for a full week, following news of the trade. We agree, Ratelle and Park should have stayed here. Not a bad trade, but it seemed to rip the spirit out of both organizations. I happened to attend Phil Esposito’s debut game with the New York Rangers, at the Forum in Los Angeles. It lasted one period. Late in the first period of his first Ranger game, Espo was injured and spent a long time on the shelf, as a result. I don’t think the team warmed up to him, when he returned. He was never really a Ranger, whereas, Jean Ratelle used to wear his New York Rangers jacket all over New York City, so proud was he of his affiliation with the organization. I spotted him and bought him a hot dog at Nedicks, one time. He was one classy guy to chat with for a few minutes.

  184. “Jovanovski is what we need if we are to win a Cup. Jovanovski is same age as Souray, but better in almost every way. When his contract expires he will be 35. He is the mean physical scoring defenseman that we need, sort of like a poor man’s Pronger. And he is likely hungry to get his hands on the Cup, unlike Gomez, Shanahan, Cullen, Drury, Jagr.”

    Do you read other posts and disagree just for the sake of disagreeing? Gomez, Shanny, Cullen, Drury, and Jarg are not hungry to get their hands on a cup? Where did you pull that from? Jagr was almost in tears when we lost game 6 last year, Drury has to be hungry after soming so close for the last two years, Cullen just won a cup recently and I am sure he wants more, Gomez was part of a great team for years and won 2 cups. Maybe there is a gas leak in your place or something. And if you read my whole post I said if we parted ways with Malik and Mara, I would be fine having Jovo here.

  185. “Simple logic, not necessarily always true though.”

    One has to love comments like that. I don’t really think I need to explain though. Let me guess, you were out at dinner recently at the Blarney Stone and you bumped into Shanny, Jagr, Drury, Cullen, and Gomez and overheard them talking. They were all sitting around and eating corned beef and cabbage, Shanny’s favorite, and Gomez said, “you know guys, I have no interest in winning a cup here, at all, i am going to skate through the next 7 years and just get paid.” Jagr almost spit up his beer and said, “Cheers to that.” And they all laughed.

    These other guys definitely have the hunger to win another cup. This is not like in years past where they signed old vets to big contracts only to have it blow up in their face.

  186. I think of all those I mentioned only Jagr has a big desire to win it because a) he won it so long ago and b) he is addicted to glory and praises.

    Drury and Gomez came here first of all for money.

  187. Bonfire – still no answer on what your very young youth now philosophy means re the King who will be 26 this coming season. Who should be goalie Lafleur. Are you deliberately not answering to avoid sounding ridiculous.

  188. Bonfire – I’m just trying to show your plan for the garbage it is. If and when you ever say that you would get rid of the King in your play the youth mantra, you would lose whatever remaining credibility you have. You (as evidenced by your refusal to answer that question) and I both know it.

  189. I’m starting to enjoy hearing long suffering NYR fans that are still suffering. Enjoy your pain. You have a standard no team will meet. I’m sure in 94 you disagreed with the moves too. Some part of being their fan is masochistic, but some of you want to beat a dead horse & you’re the horse.

  190. Bonfire,
    Funny. I live in LA and have for the last 11 years. Watch the games on Center Ice. Not the same, though. Especially because I can’t get Gyro II before the game.

  191. There is no way at all Jovo is coming NY. First off, he doesnt want to be traded(as he is building a new home in Phoenix area and would not give his consent.) He has a full no-traded clause. If he dont want to come, he aint comin.

    Secondly Eklund is reporting this. He is clueless

  192. “First off, he doesnt want to be traded(as he is building a new home in Phoenix area and would not give his consent.) ”

    where did you get that from?

  193. God of God’s God

    ““How’s this for a double dose of class: Scott Gomez offered Blair Betts $10,000 for his #19. Betts gave him the number but did not accept the money.â€?

    The whole point of it being a “double dose of class” as reported by blueshirtbulletin.com, which you did not mention…is that Gomez in turn donated the $10k to the Rangers’ Garden of Dreams Foundation- Thus the “Double Dose”

  194. After researching around and reading different sources. It does appear that Sather is looking to trade Cullen and mara to clear cap room so he can sign Avery and bring in a defensemen who can play defense. Lets face it, the rangers defense was exposed by buffalo in the playoffs last year. I do agree we need to improve our defensive blue line.

  195. TomG I’m not sure who would be Cullen’s replacement, but as I have said before Mara &/or Malik can go, preferably Mara even though I can’t figure out how Malik gets those plus #s. They do need improvement on D, but Sather half blew it by not getting Nylander for $5 instead of 2 @ $7mil. Maybe he should just chill out & see how his current D does next season. He’s lost 2, gained 2, & has 2 in limbo. He needs to put Team chemistry 1st. But he’s the boss with the headache looking for aspirin. Thankfully in some ways there is a cap or he’d be all the way back to old form.

  196. Robby Bonfire on

    Come on, Joe, stupid questions like your harping on whether I would can Lundqvist, do not deserve to be dignified with an answer. Go beat your meat, or something.

  197. I agree, thank god for the cap or he would have gave souray a ridiculous contract. I’m not a big fan of dumping cullen either but now that he spent all the money on drury and gomez sather has put himself in a bind. I personally think sather should trade mara and malik but lets be honest, who wants those guys for the money there making. Sather is going to have to find a way to free cap space to sign Avery, that’s his first priority. After that maybe sather should leave it at that for the mean time and go in to the season with what he has and take it from there.

  198. Robby Bonfire on

    TomG – Sather may want to trade Mara, but will have to package him with Cullen or someone else to get any value in exchange for him. By himself, Mara has a LOW price tag.

    If he does trade Mara, it will just prove, like so many other pick-ups last year, that Mara was, in effect, a “rental” deal. Time for Sather to stop the flea market bargain hunting.

  199. Bonfire – I agree it’s ridiculous to get rid of the King. But I’m just trying to

    a) better understand your matra re playing 18 yr olds and why it does not pertain to Lafleur
    b) find out what age you want to get rid of the King before he hits the inevitable downside that you go on and on about
    c) if you want to play 18 yr olds I would think that you would say by 26 they would be through as far as getting better and that the decline would have started. You’ve already indicated that Tyutin is too old at 24. Is the King exempt from your inevitable decline hypothesis
    d) why are you being so evasive

  200. I bet Phoenix would love to have Mara back, he had a 42 and 47 point seasons with them. And his salary is not too bad, especially for a guy that can get those kinds of numbers.

  201. Robby,
    I don’t think Mara was a rental deal. Sather didn’t give up much of anything to get Mara. Sather’s thinking was bringing him here and since mara’s reputation was an offensive defensemen, Sather was hoping Mara could boost our power play. Unfortunately it didn’t work out. At this point if we could replace Malik and Mara with better defensemen without giving up alot than I think sather did a fair job. Time will tell with this saga.

  202. Robby Bonfire on

    Going to the movies, but before I go out, I just saw at Wikipedia that our old friend, John Ferguson, Sr., a bonafide Montreal enemy as a player (ask Rod Gilbert as regards Ferguson’s “face wash” special), and possibly the worst GM in NY Rangers history, died, today. No further comment.

  203. I really dont even come close to considering Eklund as a lejitimate source. Especially when he has been throwing trades around for the past 2 weeks and NOT one of his trade rumors has happened. Did you guys think it was credible when he was talking about the Devils trading Parise and Gionta to Edmonton? The only way he is ever close is if its an e4. Any time he throws out an e3 it is definitely a longshot. He is not very reliable

  204. czechthemout!!!!! on

    tdchi-
    you obviously did not watch many of the pack games last year after dec.first of all,jessiman looked like crap in the beginnig of the season but later when recalled in feb.he scored ten or so goals and had a streak of six in eight games.not to mention the fact that his skating and balance improved drastically.he also is a good passer and can deliver big time in the fisticuffs department.i would rather have him playing instead of orr who does nothing when it comes to playing.alot of the kids that are mentioned here often are indeed going to play in the nhl.in
    addition i also think that cory potter is someone who has a chance if given an opportunity here or elsewhere.in closing i would just like to add that the nyr mgmnt.does not like to play the kids unless they are absolutly forced to because of injury.if they did not have alot of injuries last year you would NEVER EVER would have seen girardi and callahan!

  205. czech that was more true last season than the season before, but with the cap Sather & Renney are going to be forced to use inexpensive kids for this upcoming season & beyond. If my addition & subtraction in my head is correct from the #s @ nhlnumbers.com they have a cap problem to get 23 guys on the roster.

  206. Czech – I even said I hadn’t seen the Pack play since the begining of 2006. But there is something suspect about your claims. Big Hugh notched a total of eight goals(including one in the playoffs) and actually had six less points than he did his rookie season in the AHL. Sorry, but I’ll believe it when I see it. I’d love for him to break out of whatever shell he’s in. I’ve heard he’s a very hard worker, so I’m a bit perplexed why he’s tanked so badly. I don’t, however, think he’s a good replacement for ORR. Orr has been an enforcer all his career. That’s his job. Jessiman, OTOH, can’t seem to find the nerve to hit. I’ve long said if that cat just parked his ass in the crease for tip-ins and used his weight in the corners, he’d actually be a bonafide prospect. It’s an interesting thought you pose, but not really a good use of resources IMO.

    I don’t know where or why you people keep thinking the Rangers need defense. There’s an ABUNDANCE of defense on this team. The “holes” exposed during the playoffs was that this team needs to play 60 minutes of hockey, not 59 minutes of hockey(game five against the Sabres) and that Chris Drury is perhaps the greatest clutch player in the game today.

    As it stands now, the pairings are Rozy-Malik, Tyutin-Mara, and Girardi-Pock/Strudwick. If Staal has an impressive camp, you could see a deal moving some of these guys. Mara was not a rental. He’s a stop gap, just like Malik and just like Roszival, until Staal and Sanguinetti(to a lesser extent, Sauer and Baranka) can make the jump. Both will be here until after training camp, at which time one might get dealt.

    As for Eklund and any Jovanoski rumors…Jovo make SIX MILLION DOLLARS. No way he comes here. No way, no how. And if he does, I’ll happily handover my screen name to whoever wants to defile it.

    IvanaGodsMotAnus – Dude, what is with you and Lundqvist’s brother? The Stars just resigned the guy for two years. Why would they trade him and a 24-year-old agitator for Betts(who is basically a younger J.Lundqvist) and Malik? They already have a stable full of aging blueliners. And then Cullen, Kaspar, and Mara for Jovo? What are you nuts? I don’t even think Mike Milbury would do that deal.

  207. i was wondering…how come there is no talk of malik ever being bought out since he has one year left on contract or being sent down to the minors as a means of clearing cap since its likely no one wants him? it seems so logical to me but im curious why this isnt discussed…

  208. Good Point Richie. Malik is a definite minor league possibility. Heck. If he had any value, Malik would have been traded already. He is a nice guy but doesn’t belong on the first line d . Thats why he can’t be moved. Other teams have plenty Malik types in the system. He is average at best. If he played against 4th liners all night , I would not have as big a problem with him. But that didn’t happen at all last year. Malik played against first and second lines. Thats why he gets booed out of MSG. Renney plays him out of position for chemistry reasons that do not exist!

  209. This Open Letter is dedicated to all the fans who post potential line ups and post their hopes about this or that rookie getting a shot on the team. I enjoy reading those things and it is a lot of fun to speculate. It is you that the ‘hockey rodent’ ridicules on a regular basis.

    The Hypocrisy of the Hockey Rodent

    This guy never lets up. If someone knows how to reach him, please forward this to him. He ridicules this newsgroup’s posters all the time. He needs an answer.

    Dear Hockey “Rodent”:

    Ok, ok, we know you don’t like the signings of Drury and Gomez. We know that. You’ve said it over and over and you will continue to say it even as we win games. We know your style. You’ll say, “this win was ugly” or “this win could have been with 5 million less dollars”. We know you mention ticket prices, but live on the left coast and don’t purchase any such tickets.

    We know you dream of meeting Petr Prucha and having lunch, and that there is not to be found a better player for the dollar than Petr Prucha. We get it.

    We get it that you so want to have inside information so you drop hints like Domonic Moore was dumped because he didn’t get along with fellas on the road. We know you despise Larry Brooks and John Dellapina and take little shots out of raging and blinding envy. You take the shots…

    Ok. They are fair game. They are well-paid writers.

    But, the “self appointed juvenile experts” who insist that this player from the AHL or that player should be given a shot?? Do they know “more than Jim Shoenfield about who is really ready?”. Always the shots at fans who post what interests them! Sickening. You write as if you, alone, are the book of knowledge when it comes to hockey. You know more than Sather, Brooks, Dellapina, and every “internet fan”, i.e. every fan that posts an opinion on the web.

    Do you realize what happens when you use your logic in the mirror? Perhaps not.

    1. You are the “self appointed” expert you mock in others.

    2. You mock posters for, as you say it, thinking they know more than the professional, but that is exactly what you do (and every fan) when they question a decision by Sather, Renney, or anyone else.

    So what that someone who watches the Wolfpack’s games regularly wants a kid to be given a shot? How many games in California (or wherever you are) do you actually see??

    What exactly is the criteria for giving a kid a shot at the NHL level? If they are last in the team in scoring, or first?

    People read the stats and the local papers (online) and read that someone is “tearing the league up” and wish they would be given a shot on the Rangers over stone-hand players who cannot score on empty nets (see D Moore….from what I heard around, he was very well liked by the other players but couldn’t score a goal unless the net was literally empty).

    You loathe the line up postings here. Well, people post line ups because it is fun. They are fans. They enjoy it.

    Get over yourself. Brooks and Dellapina get paid for what they do. They get interviews with players and staffs and, by the way, they use their own names. They’ve all passed 8th Grade English requirements (hint, hint) and do not use worn out cliche in each article.

    I am sorry that you are a frustrated journalist-wanna-be, but there is no reason to take it out on posters on this newsgroup who love their team and enjoy speculating about how that team might win.

    I enjoy their postings and it is fun to debate and it is fun to have hope. They, unlike you, do not present themselves as “experts” but only as fans who dream big.

  210. “i was wondering…how come there is no talk of malik ever being bought out since he has one year left on contract or being sent down to the minors as a means of clearing cap since its likely no one wants him? it seems so logical to me but im curious why this isnt discussed…”

    Malik has plenty of trade value, but Jagr and Renney can’t live without him

  211. Robby Bonfire on

    “I’m sure in 94 you disagreed with the moves, too” – imagination.

    No, I just love it when my team throws away Tony Amonte and Doug Weight, early in their careers. Stupid moves like these just happened to pay off, once in 54 years.

  212. So people are under the impression that this is NHL 2007, they feel that it is possible to do things like trade for a player who just signed in free-agency (please tell me last time this happened) or make other ridiculous moves. This is the real world, Souray just signed that means he is gone…No kiddo Sather and Lowe do not have a deal to then trade him…They think that a player is all about his numbers, “Oh wow Robby check this guy out the game rates him as having 97 speed!!11!!!!” They believe that a franchise would get rid of all of it’s big names and just throw in a bunch of kids. That even though all that talent is gone you, the hockey rodent (Thanks for the phrase Seamus), are so good with those joysticks in your hand we will still win.

    People are so quick to forget we just came off a season where we were SO close to the conference finals. You know what teams like that do? They try to keep their team intact (ie not trading EVERYONE) and add a couple extra pieces. I was one of the people screaming about the ridiculous signings a couple years ago, I wanted youth then.

    Lets be real for a second, you can not go from the aforementioned to winning 15 games OR LESS. That is what would happen if we played the Wolfpack in the NHL, we would see NFL win totals…For every quality prospect we would find 5 Manny Malhotras.

    Now you may say “You preach and preach Fred but what is your plan?” Well kids it is as follows: take the middle ground. The Rangers do have a tendency to avoid bringing up prospects, I think we should give Staal a shot this year. I was at Callahan’s first couple games last year and it was the most fun I have had watching someone play in a long time. His first goal (and second shortly there after) was so exciting but he developed like that because he was around a load of players that could allow him to just play. Our current team is a perfect for trying out prospects in those last D spots and 4th line forwards. They will not be forced to produce just go out and play hard, as a hockey player I know thats the best way to get results.

  213. As someone mentioned here earlier, maybe our *team* defense was the real issue last season, with forwards on the first and second line, especially Jagr most of the time, not getting back to play defense quick enough, therefore exposing our average defensemen for what they are. If people like Malik get a little more help, he won’t have to do five different things at once, so the Gomez and Drury signings are much more than offensive produciton. I could care less how much they score if the team allows 30 less goals next season, especially when leading 2-0 and/or in the third period. Even though it’s never a perfect measurement, management will probably let training camp play out to see how the defense has improved before actually trading any defenseman, unless they are forced to by whatever Avery wants or gets in arbitration, and possibly Hossa if they want to keep him.

    imagination – Don’t forget that the NHL Numbers website has Shanny’s bonuses counting against the cap this season, which they don’t have to. I am fine with having less cap room next year IF it coincides with some old guys retiring, like Straka and Shanahan. If Shanahan does decide he wants to play another season, then hopefully he will take a lot less to cover the cap hit from those bonuses. If Jagr’s option is partially paid by the Capitals, it might be good to see him back, as well.

  214. Robby Bonfire July 16th, 2007 at 8:59 am
    “I’m sure in 94 you disagreed with the moves, too� – imagination.
    No, I just love it when my team throws away Tony Amonte and Doug Weight, early in their careers. Stupid moves like these just happened to pay off, once in 54 years.>>

    Well said. I have thought this a million times but hardly ever dare write it for the wrath being unbearable.

  215. Robby Bonfire on

    SEAMUS – Yes, I left myself open with the above comment, however, the purpose is to raise the question as to whether this team would have won one or two MORE Stanley Cups, in its history, by exercising patience and not playing it expediently (as in DESPERATELY), every year.

    We will never know whether we would have still won the Cup in 94 without Matteau and the other late additions. Remember, this team had the best regular season record in the league, that year. The debate is whether it was a team built to win in the playoffs. Maybe not, but also, maybe we would have taken out Jersey before O.T. even came around, and actually finished-off a weaker Vancouver team in five games, as we should have. That this team allowed Vancouver to take it to seven games and just a one-goal victory in game seven means there was no margin for error.

    One thing is for certain, starting in 95, when we got swept out of our Cup defense by Philly, this team began paying the price – for a decade – for those deals transacted in March of 94.

  216. This place is really getting unbearable. I don’t know what’s worse. Every 5th post about Sheldon Souray as if the guy is Bobby Orr, these ridiculous trades that have ZERO chance of happening, everyone wanting to field a team of 20 kids, or reading mindless banter from the likes of YennerIvanaPuke.

    Damn, some of you make Fishsticks, Devils, and Flyers fans look good. Then again, I wouldn’t be surprised if some of you ARE a fan of one of those teams.

  217. Robby: WHO CARES?! 1994 WAS WORTH IT!! Are you ever happy? So what that they didn’t finish off NJ in regualtion? It made winning in Double OT that much sweeter and memorable! And who cares we lost to Vancouver in Game 5?! We won, and it was another Game 7 victory! Did Mess & Co. bring the Cup to NY? Yes, that’s all that matters. Who knows if those guys would have ever won a Cup? The point is we won, and it was one of the most memorable playoffs ever. Case closed.

    What a tool.

  218. Robby Bonfire on

    SPIDER – As regards “Team defense” being the problem, to some people, last year – well, the Rangers finished SECOND in the conference in goals allowed, and 10TH in the conference in goals scored!

    Credit Hank for the stingy goals against D all you like, but the glaring need for this team is the challenge to add a couple cannons up front. Too bad Staal is a D because, again, our offense will be suspect – to be kind – for yet another season. Gomez and Drury will surely help, but by how much, is the question? Nylander is gone, a plus, I say, but he did put numbers up, and Jagr, Shanahan, and Straka are a year older. It won’t be easy for the scoring to catch up with our highly capable defense.

  219. Robby Bonfire on

    NJ MARK – How did you manage to miss my point that a STEEP PRICE was exacted, in exhange for a Cup we might have won in 94, anyway, or subsequently captured on a couple other occasions, even if we did not win it, in 94?

    I am not a “one shot” plunger, by nature, I am a DYNASTY builder, by nature. Why can’t we shoot for winning multiple Cups, as Jersey and Detroit successfully did? I want us to become the Yankees – expect to win it all EVERY YEAR, and be more successful than all our competition put together, not just win once in half a century and rest on our “laurels.”

    Don’t be satisfied with anything less than a monopoly, Mark – and we have a LONG way to go, in that regard. Think like Bill Gates – strive to own the world. Don’t think like the “equality of outcome” crowd, that it is “unfair” to strive for, and achieve, excellence and domination.

  220. ROBBY – The Espo/Ferguson era is ANCIENT HISTORY now so who really gives a rat’s ass about it now in 2007? The fact is that Middleton for Hodge was one of the worst if not THE WORST trade in NYR history. Perhaps, as you say Espo didn’t FORCE the deal but he definitely had a BIG influence on that trade.

  221. I knew when I posted that last time that the Rangers were pretty low in GA, but they were 9th overall when you factor in the Western Conference, which is supposed to have better goal-scorers. If you did actually watch the games, you would know how many of those goals were soft, bad mistakes with players out of position, deflections, turnovers, or a combination. Of course, those things happen, but they happened way too often. The first step in the right direction was trading away A. Ward; the next step should be Malik, but I believe he has the “potential” (wow, I can’t believe I said that) to play better with better defensive players around him. Plus, he is Czech, which happens to be a tight group on this team. So maybe 30 less goals is a bit ambitious and impossible, but lets shoot for that and come out around 20 less, at 196.

    Furthermore, they were 17th in league-wide scoring (actually 11th in the East), around the middle of the pack, and they have already upgraded that a bit with Drury, staying about equal with Gomez substituted for Nylander. Hopefully, Callahan and Avery in their first full year with the team will prove to be upgrades, as well. It’s pretty hard not to when they are replacing Hall/Dupuis and J. Ward. We may also see Girardi turn on his offense, since he was productive there at the AHL level but did a smart thing by focusing on defense for his first 44 games. Mara, Pöck, Tyutin, and Roszival also have offensive abilities that don’t include their own net, so hopefully the coaches can find the right fit and let them produce. The thing about this team, especially on the power play, is that they have not been willing to let defensemen be the focal points of the shooting and scoring, especially since Jagr arrived and Leetch departed, so that would have made Souray a bad fit here, most likely.

    Let the forwards do the scoring and the defensemen play defense, with enough help going each way, and we will be made happy, but finding that right mix is the tricky part.

  222. Robby: I understand your point. Yes, I would like a dynasty too. But who knows if we would have ever won at all if we kept those guys. You don’t know that. I’ll take one Cup over 10 years of a good team that chokes in the playoffs any day of the week.

    And the way the Rangers are built right now, maybe they could be a dynasty. The prospects are in place. The franchise goalie is in place. Who is to say it can’t happen?

  223. Bonfire, you should mention that you want us to be like the Yankees of 1995-2001, not the recent versions with overpriced old guys who are breaking down before the fans’ eyes and don’t make it past the first round of the playoffs sometimes and won’t make it this year at all. I’m sure that’s what you meant because of your youth strategy, but it still does not quite line up. The dynasty Yankees (who I watched when I was a bandwagoning youth, more of a Mets fan since around 1999) had mostly older players anyway, but in a usually individual sport as baseball, the role players somehow played together well, along with a few great hitters and pitchers. The only young guys they had play consistantly, as evidenced by being players who are still active now, were Jeter, Rivera, Posada, Williams, Pettite, and Wells. I don’t want to go over the whole roster, but there is clearly some disconnect in your argument.

  224. You guys should go read today’s hockey rodent rant. He’s pretty much talking about what goes on on this messageboard.
    Here’s an excerpt: Many of these message-board pundits are just as juvenile as the skaters they mistakenly deem to be so deserving(to join the big club).

    http://www.hockeyrodent.com/R1867.HTM

  225. Robby Bonfire on

    SPIDER – Where are you going, besides off-track? I stated that the Rangers finished 10th in goal scoring in the conference, in 2007. They did not finish “11th in the east,” as you post. The Rangers, with 242 goals on the season, were outscored by: Pittsburgh, NYI, Buffalo, Ottawa, Toronto, Montreal, Atlanta, Tampa Bay, and Florida = nine teams more prolific, AGAIN, making the Rangers 10TH in scoring in the division. When nine competitors are ahead of you, you rank 10th, not 11th, ok?

    Only New Jersey was superior to the Rangers in the goals-against department, making the Rangers second, overall (not “3rd in the east,” LOL). If you want to interject the Western Conference into the mix to make a point, that is fine, but that does not contradict my statement nor my findings where intra-conference goal scoring, for and against, is concerned.

  226. Robby Bonfire on

    MARK – if the Rangers will load the parent club roster with a minimun of three kids per season, over the next three years, anything is possible as regards a dynasty. If Staal is the only rookie they commit to, this year, or if they do not even commit to Staal for another year – forget it, this club will not be winning any Stanley Cups in the foreseeable future, as the pieces will not be in place to do so.

    Sather is at the crossroads this year, like never before, now that he has the best young nucleus competing for jobs in camp since he has been here. The results coming out of camp will tell us all we need to know as to whether this organization is moving up, or stagnating and just treading water.

  227. Robby, that makes no sense. 3 kids per year? So you are saying add 3 kids per year, just for the sake of, even if they don’t deserve it? So you are saying that if Sauer and Dubinsky (as an example) don’t make the team this year along with Staal, it’s a lost cause? THEY ARE 20 FREAKING YEARS OLD!! THEY HAVE THEIR WHOLE CAREERS AHEAD OF THEM!! Yes, play them if they are ready. But just don’t say, “3 kids will make the team this year no matter what.”

    And how can you say the pieces won’t be in place? They will still be Rangers property. The pieces will be there no matter what these kids do in camp. My God, I bet a root canal is easier.

  228. Peter – I think that’s where Seamus’s counter-rant above comes in.

    Bonfire – As usual, good job of avoiding any sort of comment/question posed to you. Since you seem to care so much about the Yankees and baseball, tell me how it compares when I clearly proved you wrong. Also, good job making up things that I said. Nowhere in my post do I see that the Rangers were “3rd in the East” ROFL. I did mess on the GF, thinking Carolinawas ahead, but they were one behind. But anyway, that point still stands as well, with you not answering for crap.

    You must just be waiting for October when Staal is sent back down to the AHL so you can spew your doom and gloom crap again. It’s not like he’s an intregal piece of the puzzle this year since he’s never played in the NHL, so who’s to say we won’t win without him? We got to game 6 of the 2nd round without him and have improved the team since then.

  229. Doodie Machetto on

    Vinny Pooh: I usually don’t respond to your posts because they are nonsensical and filled with Joel Lundqvist man-crush blabber, but I must respond to this one.

    Your Drury trading argument is the lamest argument I have EVER heard. I don’t even need to list the hundreds of counterexamples. I’ll list just one.

    Wayne Gretzky was traded. Twice.

    Guess he wasn’t that great either.

  230. “This place is really getting unbearable. I don’t know what’s worse. Every 5th post about Sheldon Souray as if the guy is Bobby Orr, these ridiculous trades that have ZERO chance of happening, everyone wanting to field a team of 20 kids, or reading mindless banter from the likes of YennerIvanaPuke.”

    so then get the fuck out of here and take the rest of koolaiders with you to board that will praise the signing of every overpriced UFA.

  231. Sheldon Souray may have left the building, but when can we leave this post?

    Sam, Josh, anything?

  232. Doodie Machetto on

    So why was Gretzky traded twice? Or why was Messier traded? How about Pavel Bure (to the Panthers)? How about Joe Thornton?

    I could go on, but what’s the point of trying to argue with you.

  233. “Robby, that makes no sense. 3 kids per year?”

    when you got no NHL ready kids maybe it makes no sense, but when we got so many you got to make some room for them. Otherwise the team will degenrate into what it was in the late 90’s.

  234. “So why was Gretzky traded twice? Or why was Messier traded? How about Pavel Bure (to the Panthers)? How about Joe Thornton?

    I could go on, but what’s the point of trying to argue with you.”

    dimwit, have you come up with an excuse why Drury was traded twice (in his 20’s) yet?

  235. Robby Bonfire on

    Mark – A team needs to replenish part of the parent club roster with youth, every year. One of the benefits is the TIMELY jettisoning of older guys who are on the way out. Heaven help a team which, annually, has not developed at least two rookies for adding to the parent mix. To me, three is ideal, but if four kids win jobs in camp, what is to be afraid of?

    Like it or not, it is imperative to add youth every year. The penalty for not doing this is to have a team grow old, all at once, like a certain baseball team which is backsliding, dramatically. Stagnation is no strategy for success.

  236. “So you are saying that if Sauer and Dubinsky (as an example) don’t make the team this year along with Staal, it’s a lost cause? THEY ARE 20 FREAKING YEARS OLD!! THEY HAVE THEIR WHOLE CAREERS AHEAD OF THEM!! ”

    no, but Moore(23), Baranka(22), Liffiton(23), Montoya(22) and maybe Jessiman(23) should be given a chance. I left out Dawes, because he sort of was given a small chance and I think he should be traded.

  237. “Like it or not, it is imperative to add youth every year. The penalty for not doing this is to have a team grow old, all at once, like a certain baseball team which is backsliding, dramatically. Stagnation is no strategy for success.”

    also the most counterproductive thing to a young player’s development is when he shows and knows that he deserves a spot based on outplaying some regulars, but the team feels too loyal to the vets to trade them to make space. Then the young player feels like shit and degenerates in the AHL. You have to strike when the iron is hot. If the prospect shows he is ready and he looks good in preseason then you have to play him at least as a reward for playing well. And then you re-evaluate, if his level of play drops you have plenty of options like trade, bench, and AHL.

  238. Here is why Drury was traded:

    1. Colorado traded him to Calgary because they wanted a young defensemen and at the time, Derek Morris was looked at as unbelievable. Big mistake. Even Lacroix didn’t want to unload Drury, but he said he gave away a top player for another one.

    2. Calgary traded Drury because he was to become a RFA that summer, and he wanted a big pay raise which Calgary thought they could not afford.

  239. “2. Calgary traded Drury because he was to become a RFA that summer, and he wanted a big pay raise which Calgary thought they could not afford.”

    They could affor, they just didn’t think he was worth it. He is nothing special, that is why they dumped him.

  240. Moore and Baranka could be a possibilities. But again, they are still very young and need to prove they deserve a spot. On what basis can you say they deserve a spot? Have you seen them play? They might still need more time in the AHL.

    As for Liffiton, he’s nothing spectacular. He’s mostly a PIM guy. Where would you rank him on the NYR d-men prospect depth chart? Perhaps behind Staal, Sauer, Sanguinetti, and Baranka to name a few. And none of them might be ready yet.

    Jessiman = bust

    Montoya: could very well be the backup this year. All of a matter of what will help him more: 20 games in NY or 65 games in Hartford.

  241. Robby Bonfire on

    SPIDER –

    The implications of Staal not making this team in camp, are virtually APOCALYPTIC for this team’s future. Staal, given a roster spot in New York, will win the Calder Trophy, for starters. And if you think he won’t, please let us know – now. I want a shot at your bank account. And for those who think the Rangers will win the Stanley Cup without Staal this year are in for a rude awakening, as fantasy melts into reality.

    Staal is a once in a lifetime gift from the universe, a D with a chance to become the greatest D in Rangers history. And I saw Brad Park play – you didn’t. Brad Park was Brian Leetch to the third power – a stunning all-around talent. Staal could be even better than was Park, who was the only D in the NHL to rate a mention in the same breath with Bobby Orr, for an entire decade. No one was Norris Trophy runner-up more often in league history, than was Park.

    So many like to knock me on the basis of “the kids are not ready.” How about the kid for the ages who is absolutely ready – NOW! You mean to tell me that you guys with your “more seasoning” crap are really going to go along with Sather when that bloated old rummy sets this franchise back to the Dark Ages by shipping this kid out from camp? And believe me, if I am wrong and Sather does the right thing and plugs him into the lineup on Broadway, I will admit I was wrong, and give the man all the credit in the world. I don’t mind being wrong where it benefits my team.

    And by the way 20 (!) years of age is not OLD for a rookie in the NHL. 23- 25 year old rookies are where JOURNEYMEN come from. We have people here still referring to Pock as a kid, when he turns 26 this season. You rankle me as much as I rankle you, on this ongoing age debate.

  242. How is 22 and 23 very young? Many team play guys who are 18 and 19. And yes I saw Baranka and Moore play and they really stood out last pre-season I thought they were excellent and ready for NHL and Liffiton showed he can play in couple of games he got. Montoya looked very good in pre-season as well.

    “As for Liffiton, he’s nothing spectacular. He’s mostly a PIM guy. Where would you rank him on the NYR d-men prospect depth chart?”

    He is a physical defensive defenseman that can fight almost as good as Orr and I rank him higher than Pock, Strudwick or Orr.

    “Montoya: could very well be the backup this year. All of a matter of what will help him more: 20 games in NY or 65 games in Hartford.”

    help him with what, become a star in Europe? The ultimate goal is to play in NHL, and he should be in NHL who knows when Lundqvist gets hurt or has a cold streak or becomes crap like Theodore. You need to have a reliable backup. Playing 20 games as a backup hasn’t hurt a career of many excellent goalies.

    Jessiman is a bust, but you never know what a guy will do in NHL untill he plays there. So I think there is no harm playing him in couple of games to see what he can do, unless the management is so embarrassed by the way he plays and how high they drafted him that they want nobody to see him even in pre-season.

  243. Doodie Machetto on

    VP, you don’t even understand my point. Good players get traded, even when they still have some of their most prductive years in front of them. There could be a whole myria of reasons why, but eventually it breaks down to this:

    The team making the trade thinks they will be better off with what they are getting in return. This could sometimes mean specific players, other times it means money, and other times yet it means because the are forced to (Pronger and Lindros). Point is, being traded doesn’t mean you’re a bad player.

  244. “Point is, being traded doesn’t mean you’re a bad player.”

    yes, genius.

    point is, 3 teams haven’t missed him much at all. And all 3 would laugh if he offered his services to them for 7 million a season.

  245. Colorado Mark on

    Gods God- I think you are wrong about Calgary letting Drury go. They talked about making him captain. This was pre-lockout, when the Canadian teams were suffering. They are the revenue makers now. As for why Colorado traded him, everyone around here thinks it was a mistake. They targeted Morris and Drury was the price. They thought that he wasn’t as strong a regular season player as he was in the playoffs (stupid rationale for a perennial playoff team in a weak division, but probably a fair assessment of Drury at the time)and thought that Tanguay and Hejduk were more valuable. They also had Sakic and Forsberg ahead of him in the depth chart. Fans thought it was stupid, but the Avs thought they were doing the right thing.

    As far as giving kids a shot, I understand what you are saying, and I agree to a point. When a kid shows they are ready they should get a shot. I don’t think Dawes was given much of a chance. Jessiman wasn’t ready (but maybe this year), Liffiton should have been kept on instead of Strudwick, and I think that would have given us a better indication as to his potential. I’m sure renney thought we needed experience for the playoff push. Moore? He had a great playoffs after his college season two years ago, but was hardly an impact player last year. I think Dawes and Bourett along with Immonen were the dominant AHl guys and Immo got the most games and probably deserved to stay in the lineup.

    NJ Mark- I wouldn’t count out Jessiman yet. He’s improved a lot and I think this could be a big year for him in Hartford as he pretty much will be the 2nd line RW behind Bourret (Hartford top 6: Byers-Dubinsky-Bourret, Korpikoski-Pyatt-Jessiman. Pushing those guys: Moore, Dupont, and Hillier, maybe even Anisimov.)

    Montoya will not be backup unless there is an injury. We cannot afford the cap hit he would put on the team without trading someone. The minute Drury and gomez were signed, it sealed his fate to Hartford for the year. I bet he’l get some exhibition games this year, though.

  246. “help him with what, become a star in Europe? The ultimate goal is to play in NHL, and he should be in NHL who knows when Lundqvist gets hurt or has a cold streak or becomes crap like Theodore. You need to have a reliable backup. Playing 20 games as a backup hasn’t hurt a career of many excellent goalies.”

    Lundqvist becomes crap like Theodore? What are you smoking?

    Like I said, I wouldn’t mind Montoya being the backup this year and increasing his trade value. But playing 60+ games in the AHL would help him too. It wouldn’t hurt. If you are saying it wouldn’t help him, then you are saying the AHL sucks. Hence, the players who play there suck. Hence, our prospects you so badly want on the team right away suck. Make up your mind, which is it?

  247. “Moore? He had a great playoffs after his college season two years ago, but was hardly an impact player last year.”

    he blew me away in couple pre-season games. I heard his production in NHL was low due to them making a defensive/checking forward out of him. He will be getting around 20 points in NHL as a 4th liner.

    ” Liffiton should have been kept on instead of Strudwick, and I think that would have given us a better indication as to his potential. I’m sure renney thought we needed experience for the playoff push.”

    Renney is just an idiot that doesn’t trust young players.

    “Montoya will not be backup unless there is an injury. We cannot afford the cap hit he would put on the team without trading someone.”

    the difference is only 400,000, it is very easy to make cap space for that, just trade Malik for a pick.

    “Lundqvist becomes crap like Theodore? What are you smoking?”

    goalies can go from king to a beggar in less than a year.

    “If you are saying it wouldn’t help him, then you are saying the AHL sucks.”

    I am saying it already helped him, now he needs to play in NHL otherwise it makes no sense and drives his trade value even lower, other teams will wonder what is wrong with him. I never said or meant that AHL sucks

  248. TSN’s Poll Today…Seriously..What the heck is happening to this league?

    “Should ‘tough guys’ be considered for induction into the Hockey Hall Of Fame?”

    Yes
    71%

    No
    29%

  249. “he blew me away in couple pre-season games. I heard his production in NHL was low due to them making a defensive/checking forward out of him.”

    that should be AHL not NHL

  250. Colorado Mark on

    Salted! You got the 300th post! Whoo Hoo!

    Does anyone know what the best site is for seeing organizational contracts? I know NHLSCAP is supposed to be good, but I’m looking at our AHL depth and I am curious as to which guys are going back to college, etc. Hartford loses Immonen and Helminen and looks even better on paper:
    Korpikoski-Dubinsky-Bourret
    Byers-Pyatt-Jessiman
    Hillier-Anisimov-Moore
    Fritz-Dupont-Kozak

    Plus AHL guys: Lessard, Owens and maybe even Graham or Hunter. Again, I’m not sure who we have who will be new to the AHL besides Pyatt, Dupont and maybe Anisimov.

  251. “TSN’s Poll Today…Seriously..What the heck is happening to this league?

    “Should ‘tough guys’ be considered for induction into the Hockey Hall Of Fame?â€?”

    I voted “yes”, if it would say “goons” I would vote “no”.

  252. ORR Kicks Ivanusmotpuspos' A$$ on

    Dont listen to Gods God….He makes no sense…and talks out of his ass….Assy Mcgee style….

    Anyway…that poll is pretty stupid…Tough Guys shouldnt be inducted in the hall of fame…

    BTW

    Update…….please

  253. “Korpikoski-Dubinsky-Bourret
    Byers-Pyatt-Jessiman
    Hillier-Anisimov-Moore
    Fritz-Dupont-Kozak”

    Hillier is too young and will go back. Dupont will likely play wing. No way Anisimov is on 3rd line, they want to give him proper icetime to get him going offensively. Pyatt on the other hand is likely to center 3rd line because he is more of a defensive center. Moore should be in NHL. I doubt Kozak will be there. they still got Bahensky, Falardeau and Graham and possibly Olver and Hunter.

  254. God of God’s God July 16th, 2007 at 12:41 pm
    BTW, if Drury is so great, why did Avs and Flames trade him away?

    god of god’s world:

    what saith thou of Wayne The Great One being traded?

    that wasn’t a brilliant post. no offense to the almost almighty.

  255. Doodie Machetto on

    Seamus, I tried making the same point to him a little while ago. He doesn’t understand. What is so ironic is that he says “if drury is so GREAT,” meanwhile, TGO was traded twice.

  256. Bonfire –
    #1: Staal looks to be a great defenseman, but it took him a while to start showing it last year.
    #2: There’s NO WAY Staal is winning the Calder even if he plays the whole season. I don’t know what rookies are coming into the league next season, but there’s no way he scores enough to even be considered; he will get 50 points tops as a D on the NYR. If he somehow manages a +50 rating, then he can be considered, but he won’t be playing with the top line enough for that. You want a shot at my bank account? I’ll give you 5-1 odds.
    #3: I never heard of 23 being too old for a rookie. *Uh, hello!!* Lundqvist was _23_ in his first season with the NYR and should have been considered for the Calder, at least over Phaneuf, since he made the Vezina nominations. Pöck is still a “kid” (not a rookie) because he hasn’t been shown enough in long stretches because Renney refuses to use him if he doesn’t have to.
    #4: I still don’t think you have responded to the criticism (_again_) of your stupid comparison of the Rangers to the Yankees.

    To others – Am I missing something with these AHL line combos? Where is Dawes in all of this? Do you see him being traded? I hear he played well with Bourret last season, so I would look for that again.

  257. 3 rookies every year, so in 7 years the 1st 3 rookies are too old.Would you want to play for the NYR?

  258. Not sure how reliable it is but…

    Recent speculation around the league had the St. Louis Blues trying to unload former Buffalo defenseman Jay McKee, whose first year in St. Louis was an injury-riddled disaster that prompted second-guessing all the way back to Buffalo.

    McKee signed a four-year deal worth $16 million after helping lead the Sabres to the Easter Conference finals in 2005-06.

    Source: Buffalo News

    Now this creates something interesting. Move Malik & Mara cause the Blues are looking for defense & have cap room. Pick up McKee (who when healthy is one of the best D-style Dman in the league.) This would also create an opening for Staal to come up & truly compete for something.

    If it was swingable. I would actually consider this. While it would mess up a little bit of chemistry & I do think our dman are good enough to do the job. It almost seems like the perfect fit. McKee old tough veteran & the young powerhouse staal. Nice O/D combo like Leetch & Buekaboom-(sp).

    On top of that you get another 2M ish in cap room.

    Open for debate…. Any takers?

  259. ORR Kicks Ivanusmotpuspos' A$$ on

    Mckee could replace Ortmeyer with the shot blocking……But he is a little forsbergish….

    But anyone can replace Malik…so there ya go

  260. 3Gs/Pooh/Mott/Anus: You’re a blind stinking fool if you think Drury is a week second-liner. If there’s a definition of “clutch player” it’s Drury. If there’s a guy in sports that’s proven himself a winner, it’s Drury. As usual, your knocks have no basis in reality.

    Onto your next assertions: take a good look over Rodent’s last rant(link above)and take it to heart the next time you decide to rant about Renny stifling kids and blah blah blah. There is more truth in that than any of your asinine half-baked ideas about plucking Lundqvist from the Stars. Jovanoski from the ‘Yotes, etc.

    Speaking of Lundqvist and winners. You honestly think the King might become the next incarnation of Theodore? I’ve got one word for you: Lithium. Take some. Lundqvist (like Drury) has a habbit of being a winner. He’s a gold friggin’ medal winner; he won the world juniors championship and dominated the SEL. Barring serious injury, this guy is about as solid as they come.

    Then you want to sling Montoya between the pipes for 20 games, even though the only thing he’s prooven is his inconsistency? The logic escapes me.

    And Moore should be in the NHL? Where do you get that? Moore scored 25 points in the AHL. You think that translates to 20 points in the bigs?

    I honestly think you type half the dung you do just to get people posting. And I’m at a loss as to why I bother responding to these things…

  261. Peca, a valuable penalty killer and faceoff man, could still find his way back to the Toronto Maple Leafs although it’s believed the New York Rangers are also interested in the 33-year-old.

    That is a piece of this article from: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=213761&hubname=nhl

    How on God’s would we fit him into the salary cap???

    & tsn is usually pretty good about the no BS information

  262. I have some insider on the Nylander scandal if anyone cares…. Nylander actually signed the Oilers contract! So he really had signed both teams’ contracts. I don’t have any proof, but I just heard it from someone who recently played golf with Messy who told him so.

  263. Colorado Mark on

    Falardeau is a free agent and Olver signed in Europe with Helminen and supposedly Immonen (although Immo received a qualifying offer). I forgot about Hillier having another year of eligibility.It makes sense that Anisimov would play 2nd line and Pyatt third, I’m just not sure that Anisimov is coming over this year. I just don’t understand that crazy transfer agreement stuff.

    Dawes will be on the big club.I thik the roster that is on the Website will be the opening day roster. The only real questionmark is Staal, who I would love on the big club, but the fact that they have 7 NHL D-men on the roster makes me think Staal will start in hartford. I don’t agree with it, but that’s what it looks like. Maybe they’ll trade Pock when he is ready. They could also trade Dawes.

  264. “How on God’s would we fit him into the salary cap???”

    maybe if Cullen, Malik and Mara are traded.

    “Speaking of Lundqvist and winners. You honestly think the King might become the next incarnation of Theodore? I’ve got one word for you: Lithium.”

    not just Lundqvist, but any goalie could all of a sudden become bad, that is why I am not a fan of long term contracts.

    “If there’s a definition of “clutch playerâ€? it’s Drury”

    I don’t want to overpay players who have a reputation as “clutch”. I am not buying into the whole concept of “clutch”, it is just blown out of proportion with Drury. And if he is so clutch why did he win only 1 Cup?

  265. Robby Bonfire on

    SPIDER – You are NOT a gambler, or an investor, and certainly not a poker player, or human psychologist. You offer me 5-1 odds on a proposition you know I would take at even-money? You are not a businessman, either.

    Your offering me 5-1 odds on a basically even-money bet reminds me of the discussion I have with my uncle, every year, at Super Bowl time. He always takes the underdog, but doesn’t want any points! I then feel compelled to cancel the bet, because taking candy from a baby in my own family is not my style.

    Becoming successful in the jungle begins with finding value, i.e. high potential reward relative to risk, investments. You certainly have a long way to go, you are not even up to “A” in the business and investing alphabet, yet. And the “luck” so many amateurs bank on, puts them all into foreclosures and bankruptcy, post-haste.

    Take this in the spirit in which it is offered, and don’t be too proud about it. Bad advice is everywhere, good advice seldom comes along, but you just got some. The question is: Are you smart enough to heed it?

    Meanwhile, don’t play the horses when you can’t even read the Daily Racing Form. Don’t buy into the State Government LOTTO scam, one of the biggest frauds ever devised, where they pay “winners” 20 cents on the dollar after ripping you up with taxes at all levels. And don’t buy stock because some broker called you with an “insider’s hot tip” when you have never picked up a Wall Street Journal in your life. Correction – if a broker calls you about a stock you should be buying, pass on the offer, and immediately call a different brokerage firm and sell the stock short “at the market.” That WILL make you money. They dump the garbage which the Exchange Floor Specialists and the big investors are dumping, on the little guy, is what that is about.

    Every financial game in the world is rigged for insider profit, Spider. Better not to play the patsy for the cons and wolves at your door, when you don’t even understand what the hell they are talking about. And keep your insane 5-1 offer. All I would have to do is win once in six bets of that variety to break even. And if my handicap of it being an even-money proposition is correct, I would win three of six bets at 5-1 odds, which comes to 200% net profit. Had you proposed 1-1, I would have taken it, but as it stands, I am not going to beat up an innocent child.

  266. McKee I am not sure, he does seem to get injured a lot, and might have less offensive ability than Kasparaitis, and he isn’t as physical as Kasparaitis, and more expensive.

  267. “And Moore should be in the NHL? Where do you get that?”

    from seeing him play, didn’t you see him in pre-season or you aren’t a real fan?

    “Onto your next assertions: take a good look over Rodent’s last rant(link above)and take it to heart the next time you decide to rant about Renny stifling kids and blah blah blah.”

    The Hockey Turd blocked my IP, so I have no idea what you are talking about.

    “Then you want to sling Montoya between the pipes for 20 games, even though the only thing he’s prooven is his inconsistency? The logic escapes me”

    who should be the backup then? The surfer turned goalie Steven “Swiss Cheese” Valiquette? Montoya is ready to be the backup. He can’t be worse than the dynamic due we had as a backup last season.

  268. CML hard to believe because Lowe would have said that & put it up as proof. He never said Nylasnder signed just his agent. If true maybe Lowe didn’t want him but needed to save face with the fans. He seems to be cracking up a little. His days are numbered.

  269. Imagination, I thought it was hard to believe but it came out from a reiable source. It came from an ex-Jet’s assitant trainer who golfed with Mark Messier, who said said Messy told him that. It does sound wierd but I believe it.

  270. Btw I am in favor of Peca if he comes for cheap and for 1 season. Peca is un upgrade over Cullen and is way more physical, better defensively, and having never won a Cup, would be a lot hungrier in the playoffs. And if he gets injured then we have Dubinsky.

  271. ORR Kicks Ivanusmotpuspos' A$$ on

    If we get Peca….and manage to keep Cullen….Then Prucha or Cally go to the 4th line….

    Im not in favor of that…..and i dont think Peca should replace Cullen…..

    Anyone who thinks we should trade Cullen….Your outta your mind….unless we steal some phenominal 3rd line center….

    Getting Drury and Gomez is two steps foward….Losing Cullen is one step back….Then where right back to were we were…Missing a centerman…

  272. ORR Kicks Ivanusmotpuspos' A$$ on

    Oh jesus

    Eklund has hit an all time low….He has Chris Simon….signing with NYI….some team….and NYR

    No friggin way would that ever happen unless they try to drive Hollywood somewhere else…

  273. Re: Jessiman

    I have been told by sources close to the team that there is no way in heck Jessiman makes the NHL unless he gets a “heart transplant”. This comment was from a reporter that follows the Rangers, so I’ll take it for what it’s worth…

    …now the fact that Jessiman lost an entire season due to injury, was sent down to the ECHL, then came back to Hartford and produced and is now their 2nd line center to me sounds encouraging.

    He’s a big kid and sometimes the bigger the player the longer it takes for him to develop, and least that’s what I’ve heard.

    If Jessiman can continue to develop it would be nice to gain a big forward who some of us thought might be a bust…

  274. czechthemout!!!!! on

    when i talk about jessiman i really try to be realistic about him.he still needs seasoning,has to stay on his skates better and get in prime goal scoring position.i am hopefull about him not blind.his time is starting to grow short and this is probobly his make or break season.i am hoping for the best.

  275. czechthemout!!!!! on

    vogs-
    i bet that reporter has never seen him play.i don’t think his heart is the problem,he sticks up for his team mates all the time,unlike malik who doesn’t even stick up for himself.i saw hugh drop the gloves many times this year in order to stick up for his team,the next time that big freek malik drops his will be the first!!

  276. Bonfire – what the hell are you talking about? Last time I checked this was a hockey blog. Basically I was exaggerating saying I would place any bet on Staal not winning the Calder since I will win every time. I don’t think we need your essay about how to invest, bet on horses, etc. Take that to some crappy business blog and stop following hockey if that’s the way you get your jollies. I’d place the bet with you, but I don’t want to meet you because I would probably punch you in the face.

  277. And why are you still avoiding any question posed to your strategy? Instead you go on for ten minutes about some topic nobody here cares to read at this site.

  278. Robby Bonfire on

    I don’t like people threatening me, kid. Better back the fuck off, if you know what’s good for you.

  279. By the way, I’m old enough to remember the 1994 cup, so stop being so damn condescending. I’m beginning to think you and the other are Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. But you’re the smart side woh just went over to the dark side; I don’t remember which one is which.

  280. Not to sound negative or anything but calling Marc Staal a “once in a lifetime gift from the universe” might just be a little bit of a stretch. Sure, he will be a top D-man for many years to come but I think expectations might be a little too high… Well at least for some of us out there.

  281. 3 G’s – teams are not allowed to play if you’re over the cap.

    Bonfire – a little respect for our host Sam and for kids reading this. keep the language under control you should know better if you’re as old as you claim.

  282. “3 G’s – teams are not allowed to play if you’re over the cap.”

    Didn’t the Devils go over the cap 2 seasons ago?

  283. as of each indiv game they were in compliance. there were some games they had less than 23 man roster for that reason.

  284. 3G – PRE-SEASON. Say it, Frenchie. PRE-SEASON. Yeah, he looked good in PRE-SEASON, when half the team is still trying to get in shape. I also remember Jamie Lundmark lighting up the lamp in PRE-SEASON when he was skating with Holik. Yep. He sure made an impact.

    And why do you think Vally is any worse than Montoya? Actually, having seen Montoya IN PERSON and then watched Valliquette on the tube, I’d say Steve is indeed the goalie more fitted for the backup slot. He comes in, he plays a solid game, he wins a few. He’s also the guy that was routinely bailing Montoya out last season, if you happen to read the Hartford Courant. Montoya MIGHT be a good goalie one of these days. Lord knows, he’s got the talent. But he ain’t that goalie now and INCONSISTANT is his middle name.

    And whay did you do to get your IP blocked by rodent? Could it be the f-bombs, the antogonistic attitude? Jeeze, dude. I ain’t going to swear by what the guy preaches, but in the same breath, I sure as @#$# ain’t going to swear at him.

    To answer your question, if you ignore the cap, you can’t ice a team. Period. It’s pretty simple.

  285. You are aloud to go over the cap up to 10% of the total cap space during the summer, but must return to under the cap by the start of the season. Devils went over the cap, then filed for long term injury relief and traded malakhov + 1st rounder to sharks

  286. “I don’t like people threatening me, kid. Better back the fuck off, if you know what’s good for you.”

    To be fair, he didn’t threaten you in any way. In fact, he made it clear that he would not be coming anywhere near you. Please stop looking for and provoking trouble around here….it’s absurd.

    This place gets abused because it’s not an actual “message board” with moderators and the whole bit. *Fortunately*, this site affords us often the very latest news, right up until the puck drops on game nights. *Fortunately*, the quality info and updates here attract lots of well thought out posts from us readers, whether everyone agrees on them or not. *Unfortunately*, Sam can’t, wont, and shouldn’t have to play daddy on here because the children can’t agree on X,Y, or Z.

    *This is not your average Rangers message board.* It’s very unique in how it works here, and we need to stick together to respect that no matter how dumb we might think eachother are. Aren’t we all old enough to see that just because we can get away with *a lot* here (locker room talk), there are still lines and boundaries that really need to be respected in order for this all to work?

    this is a great site and there are a lot of good people here– remember that.

  287. After watching the fan fave last night, I begin to wonder if it’s at all possible that Straka can start the season on the second line, so Prucha can play with Jagr. It would seem to be a wash from Jagr’s perspective because Petr was practicing with him in C.R. already this summer, so I’m sure they’re pretty tight by now, which adds security for Prucha staying between 7th and 8th Avenues. I know Straka only played down a line in those late games because the Rangers needed him at center, but I would like to see him with Shanahan again, pushing Avery to the third line. Hopefully, this doesn’t provide Renney incentive to rotate Prucha and Hossa on the first, though.

    P.S. We are really starved for news and a new post, but nothing’s really going on with the Rangers right now, except Avery contract talks, I would hope, so what’re you gonna do?

    P.P.S Great post Salty.

  288. SALTED good post but it wall fall on deaf ears of the guys who like to abuse freedom of speech, & don’t care that kids read this. You know what they say about what opinions are like.

  289. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hutchinson alone costs more than Cullen. Are we gonna stuff this guy in the minors to. Ladies & Gentlemen presenting the Hartford WolfPack’s $6M+ defensive corps.

  290. Now this Joe Barnes guy has some upside. I know it the WHL but he looks like a natural scorer, who also doesn’t mid a little penalty time.

  291. Heh..yeah…he costs $500,000…and that’s if he makes the team..I think “hutch” will probably start the year in Hartford…good news for Bonfire: looks like some of your kids will get the nod now…bad news for those thinking Avery is going to be on the wing…to date, I have:

    Jagr-Gomez-Straka
    Shanahan-Drury-Prucha
    Hossa-Avery-Callahan
    Hollweg-Betts-Dawes

  292. Read above, the articles mention another dman first. I am not happy about the cullen move & in my frustration didn’t read the whole thing. Oops…

  293. Why does everyone always stuff Betts as the 4th line center. With some talent around him he could very easily become a nice setupman. Plus having Avery who is going to blossom into a full on 20+ goal scorer, while not losing any of his intensity, & someone like callahan or hossa on the other side would make quite a nice mix betts to put up much better offensive numbers. Then we can put “a kid” in the 4th line slot & see how he does.

  294. TSN’s Scouting Report on Andrew Hutchinson

    Assets

    Has exciting offensive potential and intriguing size. Plays a cerebral game from the back end.

    Flaws

    Needs to add more strength in order to better handle the rigors of the NHL game. Must work harder on his play in the defensive zone.

    Career potential

    Power play quarterback.

  295. Looks to be a salary dump. That’s the draw back when over paying in a salary cap system.

  296. This is really angering. They should have traded Mara but I guess they had to do what they did. At least the Salary cap issue is dead and burried now. I really like Matt Cullen. He was an exciting player. Sad to see him go

  297. This guy Joe Barnes appears to be a bust. Like I said, this really is more of a salary dump than it is trying to get something worth out of a trade.

  298. True Fans bleed RW&B on

    I ‘m intrigued by everyone who thinks the Rangers just got worse. Cullen wasn’t an asset, never would have been an asset. The team didn’t change all that much as Cullen couldn’t pass, neither can Betts. Dubinsky will get a chance now and Straka, Avery, Betts, Dubinsky, or Hollweg can fill in the bottom center spots.

    Jagr-Drury-Hossa/Straka
    Shanahan-Gomez-Prucha
    Avery-Straka/Dubinsky-Callahan
    Hollweg-Betts-Dawes/Orr/Anisimov/Whoever…

    Not a huge loss.

  299. excellent trade, kudos to Sather 3rd rounder and 2 cheap young players, one is possibly a power forward. Cullen for 3 more years would have been a big mistake. Now we need to trade Malik, Mara, Betts as well as Pock, Dawes and maybe Hossa.

  300. I still think Sather is going to trade mara. I would like to see the rangers definately trade Malik but I’m not sure the rangers would consider doing so since malik is one of Jagr’s countrymen. All I can say is I can’t take another season of malik making perfect passes in the rangers defensive zone to the opposition. I was watching a replay of last years toronto vs. rangers at the garden last night on msg and 3 minutes in to watching the game what do I see, Malik making a perfect pass to a toronto player in the high slot and getting off a point blank shot which fortunately for Malik Lundvist stopped.

  301. ORR Kicks Ivanusmotpuspos' A$$ on

    Im sorry but im really pissed off about this…..

    To damn soon to give up on Cullen….to soon….

    This makes last season a waste….Hall…Ward..Rachunek..Cullen..

    Im not happy at all….I really thought NYR was gonna keep Cullen…This is BS

  302. Hutchinson is not even on the Hockeys future “notables” list. If you compare the Canes prospect list to the Rangers, it really shows us how much of a wealth of talent the Rangers really have.

  303. hockeymanrangers on

    Hey guys why can’t we use Callahan for 3rd line center. I really liked what I saw of this kid when he palyed up. His hustle was more than excellent. It’s kind of unfortunate that with the signings over the summer, these young guys may not have a chance you got Callahan and Dubinsky both of them impressed me last year. But I have to think this is a good problem to have, just so long as we don’t trade them away. I like to see them come up thru the ranks and continue to play for us.

  304. “From the scouting report on Barnes, it sounds like he has talent but is a complete headcase”

    I got the impression that it is his hockey sense that is the problem, he thinks too much. Rangers probably had him ahead of Dupont in 2005 draft. He was a teammate of Bahensky in WHL.

  305. ORR Kicks Ivanusmotpuspos' A$$ on

    Is there any possibility that NYR can re sign Avery….and go after an FA..???

    Also do you think Mara or Malik could be traded???

  306. Orr-I dont like the move either but it was obviously something they needed to do. They couldnt take a chance and wait longer to try and trade Mara or Malik because if no one would take him, we would be sunk. I guess its better to be safe than sorry. Look at the bright side, a kid like Dubinsky or Anisimov can step up now. I would love it if they gave Jarkko a chance at 3rd line center though

  307. hockeymanrangers on

    I am not upset at all of them getting rid of Cullen. I don’t think he ever gelled with fellow Ranger players. Although I would really like to see Avery sign I don’t care about Hossa either. I would rather see a decent d-man sign soon.

  308. Hey you never know, anyone who has talent has chance. It sounds like he has upside and potentially could be a better player than Cullen

  309. “Hutchinson is not even on the Hockeys future “notablesâ€? list. If you compare the Canes prospect list to the Rangers, it really shows us how much of a wealth of talent the Rangers really have”

    that is because he is not a prospect, he played 95 NHL games and is 27 years old. He is nothing special sort of like Andy Delmore, but he can do Pock’s job of being healthy scratch, but he is most likely going to be either dumped or play in Hartfordd.

  310. Doodie Machetto on

    Barnes had a major concussion last season. Seems to me to be Brett Lindros Jr.

    Hutchinson looks like another Pock.

    What the @#$! was going through Pock’s mind when he resigned here?!

  311. Cullen is a great third line center. If you put his production next to other third line centers he is great. Not for the money, but I am sad to see him go.

  312. ORR Kicks Ivanusmotpuspos' A$$ on

    Damn..

    Wasnt there a team out there that would want Malik….

    If NYR is the only team that wanted Malik…i bet every team is laughing at NYR right now…

    “Hey there there goes the team with the big dufus who plays for us and puts pucks in his own net”

  313. “Cullen is a great third line center. If you put his production next to other third line centers he is great. Not for the money, but I am sad to see him go.”

    he played 2nd line for more than half of the season and he got good PP time too

  314. Tim – that’s a good point. I don’t know if Renney/Sather will consider it, but Betts can definitely be on the third line. I think he started there last year with Cullen on the second and Hollweg centering the fourth, but that didn’t last very long.

    Matt Cullen has left the building. I can’t say I’m shocked to see Cullen go because the writing was on the wall, so to speak. According to the ‘Canes article, he was sixth on the team in scoring, but they were expecting him to be a second line center for that money, which he didn’t turn out to be. I guess after getting two centers, we could afford to lose two. They didn’t have to trade him based on cap restrictions, but they knew the Canes wanted him back, so might as well. What it tells me is that they’re trying to sign somebody else, and that offseason cap hit from Kasper could have been resticting them, so before moving a defenseman to sign one, they moved Cullen. It’s too bad they couldn’t hold out for a second round pick with the crappy players coming this way.

    This definitely means Dubinsky, Anisimov, and Dawes will be playing for the last spot. If Dawes makes it, Avery and Betts will be last two centers, but if one of the centers makes it, Betts will probably play on the third line. These young guys could probably replace Cullen’s speed, but not his sense, especially on the PK. I’m just worried that we’re now going back to the old system of having too much offense, with not enough emphasis on D, but hopefully Gomez and Drury will help with that.

    hockeymanrangers – Callahan will be on the team for sure, but he played RW all last year, so I don’t think he’s a center.

  315. Doodie Machetto on

    “Cullen is a great third line center. If you put his production next to other third line centers he is great. Not for the money, but I am sad to see him go.”

    That’s the best I’ve heard it put. True, he had some 2nd line time that was unwarranted, but I think that happened largely due to circumstance (Shanahan and Jagr having no chemistry together, Immonen having a lousy training camp) rather than him being intended to be a 2nd line center.

  316. hockeymanrangers on

    Man you guys are hard on Malik I know he is not the best d-man out there but he not ALL BAD. I have said this b/f when he was out injured last year for some games we strugled defensively. Go ahead and scream and hollar at me, he defintily has his HUGE SCREW UPS here and there. But like I said he is not ALL BAD.

  317. At this point, I think Sather would intend on Hutchinson playing.

    However, I am livid over the fact that he keeps dipping in to Carolina’s wasteland to get his fixes.
    You would have thought he learned his lesson from Aaron Ward and subsequently, Matt Cullen…But no-

    Hutchinson has NEVER played more than half an NHL Season, was sidelined for both of Carolina’s playoff runs and had a wrist injury with surgery along with a hip injury to boot.

    Good going Glenny Boy!

  318. Yet two more Glenn Sather reclamation projects. Or should I say this years Adam Hall. And one more defenseman to block Mark Staal. And now no third line center. And now no chemistry in an established 3rd line with Prucha-Cullen-Callahan.

    Just when I was feeling better about Glenn.

  319. Doodie Machetto on

    It’s a salary dump, nothing more. Who else would pick up Cullen’s bloated salary?

    He’s been overpaid since day one, no question abot it. I’m not knowcking the guy as a player: I thought he skated hard every shfit, and was probably the fastest player on the team. But there’s no denying that he was grossly overpaid.

  320. Why would he intend on Hutchinson playing? Hes basically a career minor league player. I think Hutchinson andBanres could easily be trade bate to get someone to take Mara off our hands

  321. Why do people think Hutchinson, a career minor leaguer or a bigger version of Thomas Pock is gonna block Marc Staal? The guy obviously isnt good enough to play everyday in the NHL. Im seriously thinking he is trade bait along with Barnes and maybe the 3rd rounder

  322. That is what I meant. In reality Cullen could have had a hell of a year being a third line center and killing penalties. The guys is like an inbetween 2nd and 3rd line center but on this team would have been a great 3rd liner. But to free up cap space I guess he had to go. Orts and Cullen gone, those were two great defensive forwards and great on the penalty kill. I hope they don’t have Avery playing center, the guy is a winger.

  323. “Why would he intend on Hutchinson playing?”

    I am not saying that he SHOULD play.
    Just being Glen, I think he’ll play him just to justify dumping Cullen.

  324. His justification for dumping Cullen is our slary cap situation. Plus Glen is no longer the Head Coach if you havent realized yet

  325. Signing Peca to a one-year deal on the cheap is a risk worth taking. If he stays healthy, he replaces a lot of what you had with Cullen- speed, scrappy play, PK ability, playoff experience. If he gets hurt, Dubinsky, Immonen, et al are ready to step up and take his place. I don’t really see a downside to either circumstance.

  326. We have a logjam at defense now. We need another trade espeically if Staal is going to play. Hutching has some talent and because our PP needed Defensive help, he’ll probably get a look there.

  327. Cullen would have been a third line center on a good team this year where is offensive shortcomings, which really are not that shortcoming considering what he really is, would not have mattered much.

  328. I think Hutchinson is nothing more than a salary dump coming from their way.

    “Tim – that’s a good point. I don’t know if Renney/Sather will consider it, but Betts can definitely be on the third line.”

    are you nuts? Betts stinks as a 4th liner, he is unable to pass at all.

  329. Doodie Machetto on

    Mara and Malik aren’t going anywhere. This trade settled that.

    I don’t see Glenn making any more roster changes during the offseason. Look how much it has already cut into his summer to play Golf!

  330. Poll Question:? (& A little Rant)

    On June 30th, we had 2 centers one REALLY GOOD with awesome chemistry with our C, Lead Goal Scorer, & Face of the Team. The other a little over paid but not all that bad at all.

    On July 17th we have 2 centers both of which are better than Cullen but in the same category as Nylander, taking into account “clutch” & the Dev’s restrictive system.

    It only cost about 5-6M more for this upgrade. Was it worth it?

    My vote is no, mainly because that money could have done so much more in other places. Avery, Hossa, Souray (or preferably Markov), & on & on.

  331. Doodie Machetto on

    Nylander is not really good. He only had awesome chemistry. When we first signed him, I thought it was to be a 2nd line center. My joke the whole season when we needed a second line center was that we had one, but he was playing on the first line.

    Gomez and Drury are both big upgrades over Nylander. I really think that Gomez is going to have a breakout year this season.

    Drury will probably have a year similar to that he had in Buffalo last year, with a few less goals and a few more assists.

  332. Still scratching my head a bit. My instinct is to think Sather has a better knowledge of the situation than we the fans do. I also thought that when he traded Marek Zidlicky and Tomas Kloucek for Mike Dunham, Rob Dimaio for Mike Knuble, & Dominic Moore for Adam Hall.. Guess we’ll find out. Obviously it all comes down to money. Can the Rangers replace Cullen’s 16 goals and tenacious play from within their Organization (or come close to it and save $)? Or, are there other moves up his sleeve? Either way, I’m not really confident with what took place today.

    In Hutchinson the Rangers get another Right Handed shooting Defenseman. They can pair him with Mara and give Staal time to season at Hartford, or move Mara and let Staal take his minutes.

    Guess we’ll see how it unfolds………

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