The great shootout debate

102

So let’s see here: Jaromir Jagr is either a spineless, ill-suited leader for not wanting to go in the shootout last night against the Devils.

Or he is a selfless, team-first player willing to put his ego aside for the greater good.

My take is he is neither.

Or he is both.

I guess you can say I’m still figuring this one out.

But first, let’s hear from the Big Fella, who originally resisted my question about the events of last night, but later provided a compelling response when I asked why the best player on a team was on the bench with the game on the line.

“Best player doesn’t mean you’re good on breakaways. (Peter) Forsberg doesn’t go on breakaways. (Scott) Gomez doesn’t go on breakaways. I think they’re pretty good players. Some guys play four minutes but they’re good on breakaways.”

Jagr was then asked about the message he may be sending the rest of his teammates.

“That’s a tough answer to answer right now. I didn’t think about it. I didn’t know what the other team was thinking. I just know what I’m thinking. If the game’s going to be on the line with two minutes to go, I want to be there the whole two minutes. This is a different story.

“If I would be sure about it, your never sure, but if I would be sure I’m better than the guys who are going, I’m in…It’s a tough answer to answer. You just never know. Trust me, if I know it would help the team I’d be the first guy to stand on the red line. I do what I feel is good for the team and if I feel it might hurt me or I’m not going to be a hero, it doesn’t matter because it might help the team. But maybe I start shooting. Maybe it’s going to help the team.”

Naturally the same questions were posed to Tom Renney, who was fairly passionate in his defense.

“I don’t have a problem with it at all,” Renney said. “If that’s where his level of comfort is with that part of what we do, good (for him) for being honest about. Period. I’m fine with this.”

“Jaromir’s growth as a leader this year has been phenomenal. It’s easy to misunderstand his intentions in certain areas. This is not one of them at all. He wants to make sure someone has more confidence and more success in this so we win a hockey game. End of story.”

Is it, though? Might this be indicative of a larger problem? Again, I go back to what I said earlier: I’m not sure.

As Jagr alluded to earlier, if we’re talking about the last two minutes of a hockey game, then yes, get your helmet on and get on the ice. If you’re the captain and the team’s best player, there should be no question about it.

But shootouts are different. Shootouts are goofy. And hard as this may be to believe, there may well be four or five or even 10 players on the Rangers roster who are better at it than Jagr.

The analogy I tried to make to everyone from my boss to Dave Maloney and Joe Micheletti this morning is one of putting Shaquille O’Neal on the free throw line with no time on the clock. Yes, he’s your leading scorer and your team’s leader. But when it comes to the specific discipline of shooting free throws, he’s awful. Maybe Jagr is a little better than that. But it doesn’t change the fact that he didn’t think he could produce a goal when the Rangers needed one last night.

Is that gutless or smart? I wish I knew.

More later…

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102 Comments

  1. please see video below of sabres vs. ottawa last night. Watch lindsey Ruff’s response to Chris Neil knocking Drury out of the game on a very questionable hit. PLEASE FWD TO TOMMY RENNEY. THIS IS HOW a coach needs to RESPOND WHEN A TEAM RUNS JAGR. IT HAS HAPPENED TO MANY TIMES THIS YEAR WITH ZERO RESPONSE.

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=DZT2PIyE5Vg

  2. Sam, I hate to do this to you again, but…

    “But first, let’s –here– hear from the Big Fella himself…”

    ;)

  3. Doodie Machetto on

    Via Spector’s Trade Rumours”

    “TSN.CA REPORTS THE COLUMBUS BLUE JACKETS HAVE DEALT WINGER ANSON CARTER TO THE CAROLINA HURRICANES IN EXCHANGE FOR A FIFTH ROUND PICK IN 2008.”

    5th round pick in 2008. We got Jaromir Jagr at half of his contract for the same price.

  4. carolina got ripped off in that one lol.

    face it i haven’t seen jagr score on a breakaway or a shootout attempt since he’s been here. he’s terrible at them. with that in mind if i’m him i want a chance to win the game.

  5. Since this is in reference to the shootout, why has no one mentioned how awesome it would have been if Sean Avery faced Brodeur last night. Obviously Sean is not in the top 3 but I think it would have been compelling.

    It probably would be even better if Avery went first and plowed into Brodeur, shaking him up for the rest of the shootout.

  6. I like how Jagr singled out Forseberg for not being good at shoouts while it was Forseberg who scored the most famous shootout goal probably in Sweden’s history to win the gold medal in the 1994 games. Maybe he got lucky that one time but he at least tried to do it. Jagr seems to be a bit of a headcase, great player but clearly not the same player he was

  7. Excellent analogy Sam. Point is anyone who says the Rangers need to trade Jagr is nuts. The guy is still one of the most dominant players in the game. It’s obvious his shoulder is still hurting. I am hoping for a return to form for next year.

  8. Rangers have so many more issues than Jagr not taking the SO. Blowing a 2-0 lead would be a good one to look at. Say changing the D to make it better but that isn’t going to happen because our coach won’t make a change. A good coach would.

  9. SO are a gimmick and if they weren’t then the NHL would use them in the playoffs. Go back to having ties and no points for losing.

  10. I’m consistently amazed how most of you blame Jagr for everything that is wrong with this team. I just don’t get it. You must be nuts saying to ship Jaro…

  11. Forsberg has also opted out of shootouts for the Flyers. I remember he opted out against the Rangers in October-November in Philly and was questioned along the same lines as Jagr.

  12. If you saw Forsberg’s shootout attempt for Nashville last night, you’d understand why he opted out of them with the Flyers. ;)

  13. It would be one thing if Renney was telling Jagr he wasn’t good enough, but it looks like Jagr is just begging out. If there were that many guys better than Jagr to shoot Renney wouldn’t be asking him.

    Some great distinctions between the Devils and Rangers were evident with how their captains handled the shootout. Both teams were missing great offensive players (Gionta for NJ, Shanny for the Rangers). Neither Captain is any good in the shootout. Elias, still recovering from the flu that kept him out of Tuesday’s game, steps up. Sure, he didn’t score but he went out there. Jagr asks not to shoot.

    In your example Sam, while Shaq would not be anyone’s first choice in a free throw shooting contest I am certain if he was asked to go out there he would be on the line doing his best.

  14. DumpJagrDope
    February 23rd, 2007 at 3:04 pm
    Anybody who thinks we need to keep Jagr is retarded and has no clue about hockey

    OK, then who do we trade him for and what? I can’t wait to hear this one.

  15. Oleg Tverdovsky hit waivers. Just the kinda defenseman the Rangers don’t need, but just the kinda defenseman they’d go after. If it happens, let’s just say you heard it here first. God help us…

  16. this wouldnt even be an issue if the guys chosen to take the shootout had scored and we had won. nobody would have questioned the move. on the other hand, had jagr gone and missed, and we lost in turn, then everyone would be complaining about a) how jagr screwed up for inserting himself in that role and b) how renney screwed up for allowing it to happen. you cant have it both ways. we all know jagr doesnt have a good record in shootouts or even breakaways! in fact, i cant think of a single time that he cashed in. why then should he insert himself in a role where he doesnt put the team in a better position to win? its a shame.. jagr cant do any right by some people, he’s damned if he does, he’s damned if he doesnt. if he’s not the hero, then he’s nothing.

  17. blue in the face on

    It’s good Jags knows his limitations, always disappoints on breakaways. Prucha scored a beauty against Brodeur on a breakaway earlier on. He beat him again, sort of, but not the iron. Seems like JJ’s blaming himself a bit when he says “But maybe I start shooting”? Until the Rangers make opponents pay for double swarming him he won’t.

  18. DumpJagrDope: Oh please shower us with your bight ideas! Where do we go next? Who do we get for Jagr? Can we trade the whole roster? Dumb….

  19. Also….

    Sidney Crosby was 0-7 at one point this season, but still wanted part in the shootout and scored the game winning shootut goal about 2 and a half weeks ago (against Philly I think it was). That shows some stones. That shows leadership. That shows a kid who’s confident that he has the ability to lead his team to a victory. Isn’t that the kind of mentality a captain should have???

    pensinbk.blogspot.com

  20. “In your example Sam, while Shaq would not be anyone’s first choice in a free throw shooting contest I am certain if he was asked to go out there he would be on the line doing his best.”

    HIS best may not be the best for the team. He would’ve went, shot, and looked like an idiot like Forsberg constantly does during shootouts. Who cares about that ONE time 13 years ago. I doubt you’d all be here saying, “We lost, but oh well, at least Jagr tried. Thats the important thing.” Everyone would be arguing how much he sucks at shootouts. Jagr’s best is still atrocious, much worse than the four that went. I would’ve picked Straka instead of Cullen, though.

  21. “OK, then who do we trade him for and what? I can’t wait to hear this one.”

    hopefully some good young player and a 1st, in any case to me it would be addition by subtraction in terms of entertainment value, and really all I care about is being at least entertained.

  22. I agree with the comparison of Jagr to A Rod. Sometimes too much thought is far worse than no thought at all. I also believe that the captaincy is an albatross around his neck that has hampered him almost as much as physical woes. I think he should have stepped up for the shootout. When you hear the opposition say how happy they were to not see him on the ice, it makes me wonder what Renney is thinking when he says he has no problem with it at all.
    Oops…my mistake…I forgot who really coaches the team.

  23. “Sidney Crosby was 0-7 at one point this season, but still wanted…”

    I agree, but aside from Malkin, Staal and maaaaybe Recchi, Pittsburgh really has no other choice. We have Nylander, Straka, Prucha, Shanahan, Hossa (who shoulda deke’d last night), and other players who are better than Jagr at shootouts. Don’t get me wrong, I would’ve loved to see Jags out there, but if he chooses not to for the good of the team, then so be it.

  24. onecupin67years on

    next time he gets a breakaway he should turn the puck over.Trade him ,this is his way of getting moved to a contender.Powderpuff

  25. I still think Jagr is nowhere near 100% healthy. Hopefully, his shoulder will get better this summer and we’ll see the 54 goal, 69 assist MVP we saw last year.

    And considering he’s playing with a bum shoulder, he’s still on pace for near 100 points.

  26. “d considering he’s playing with a bum shoulder, he’s still on pace for near 100 points.”

    at what cost? how many points we lost in shootouts, how many points we lost because we have the worst captain in NHL, how many points we lost because we have Pandolfo’s bitch, how many points we lost due to pathetic PP, how many future points we lost by playing Jagr and posse for 22 minutes a game instead of developing young guys. Shoves those 100 points, Jagr is boring and predictable, everybody knows what he will do, how much fun is it to watch him either turn the puck over or shoot right into a defender Nedved style or cycle it on perimeter without any purpose?

  27. “next time he gets a breakaway he should turn the puck over.Trade him ,this is his way of getting moved to a contender.Powderpuff”

    next time he has a breakaway he should skate to the bench for a change to get Cullen there.

  28. Why are we even wasting time discussing this? No way is Sather trading Jagr.

    Plain and simple: the Rangers need as many regulation wins against the NYI, MTL, TOR, and CAR in those 9 games as they can possibly get.

  29. You have to step up in this instance and perform the shootout … Go first so there is less pressure … Jagr IS wilting under the pressure … He has no confidence in his shot, he deked 3 separate times last night when he should have shot right then and there … who knows, maybe a SO goal will give him confidence … I would have had in this order for the shootout: Jagr, Avery, Nylander … then Hossa, Prucha, Straka …

  30. SOLUTION:

    Ranger fans should start yelling Jagr’s name as soon as the OT ends… get 20 thousand people yelling his name … this would shame him into going out there …

  31. onecupin67years on

    MMMMM.good idea.Dumpjagrdope.
    But I think Jagr Really F—ed up his shoulder last year.
    With the 2 surgeries it took to repair the injury he may never regain his shot if its gonna take another year or two for it to get better.And I think he is fed up here and change of scenery to a legit contender will awaken his lazy butt.
    I hope the rangers dont do for jagr what they did for the other old dinosaurs-Messier,leetch and richter,keep them here solely for the purpose have having a star ?has been player.

  32. onecupin67years on

    Jagr having a 100 pt season and the rangers sliding down the standing and missing the playoffs shows that he isnt the answer.if they cant win with him then let him go for value.But Sather and Maloney etc. don’t know value players-just look at the crap they have minors.

  33. He’ll never get confidence if he never shoots.
    Forget that, why is Cullen in the very important 3 spot? No Straka?

  34. As I mentioned in a previous post, we won’t be sellers since Dolan can make too much $$$ if we play just 1 round this year. My ticket went from $68 (reg season cost) to $100 for the 1st round. I’ve had season tix since the 60’s and that is the largest pct. increase that I’ve ever seen.
    That puts us between a rock and a hard place.

  35. a Man of his Words---NOT on

    come on, SAM. I am going to post YOUR OWN ARTICLE from Jan. 25. you pointed out that Jagr came to you with this. His bailing out on his teammates is disgraceful. here is what he said a month ago.
    …………….
    ………………

    Never mind the new guy (Updated with Jagr quotes)

    January
    25

    I say that because as much as the Rangers’ promotion of Dan Girardi is significant, even more noteworthy are the remarks made by Jaromir Jagr just now.

    The message? This is all on him.

    “I think when your top guy and your captain does well, the team does well,� Jagr said. “I understand it’s a team game but when the game’s on the line, the individuals have to make a difference. That’s what I truly believe. If you want to be the special guy, you have to have those special moments. That’s what I play for, that’s what I live for.�

    While the Rangers’ captain still made it clear that he didn’t consider himself above the team, he also emphasized that it’s up to him to to get the Rangers out of their current rut (in fact, Jagr was so concerned about making sure that message came across correctly he actually turned back to us after our interview just to clarify. “Did I answer everything right?� he said. “I don’t want to sound like the team isn’t important.�)

    “I’m not going to sit here and talk about how the team should do. I have to be the first guy to do it. I don’t play good, the team don’t play good. That’s how it is. I’m not saying I’m the team….But I don’t think I’m going to help anybody by talking about how the team should play if I don’t play good,� he said.

    “That’s why I didn’t go to the All-Star game. That’s why I want to make the playoffs and do something in the playoffs. These people in New York deserve it. Our team deserves it. I live for it. There’s no better place to play. There’s no better organization to play for. We get everything we need. Now we have to do it.�

    It was fairly dramatic stuff, and dare I say, Jagr’s most convincing moment as a captain.

    ……………….
    ………………….
    …………………..

    what a fraud !

    and today he told Sam,

    Jagr was then asked about the message he may be sending the rest of his teammates.

    “That’s a tough answer to answer right now. I didn’t think about it.”

    No, he doesn’t even think about his teammates. all he thinks about and cares about is HIMSELF.

    you can’t still be on the fence Sam when you read your own interviews with Jagr and then compare them to his actions.

  36. “Forget that, why is Cullen in the very important 3 spot? No Straka?”

    Straka is Jagr’s butler he follows his captain.

  37. isn’t it instructive how Buffalo keeps winning despite a horrible run of injuries to its best players. about 8 of their best players are out, and they are going with kids from Rochester, but they keep playing well.

    gee, I sure wish the Rangers could do the same. oh, that’s right. they have to go with waiver wire wonders like Krog and Isbister. prospects are not allowed. what a joke.

  38. Reginald Dunlop on

    Hey Toe Blake Jr…………..it is LINDY RUFF…….yep your views carry a lot of weight……….

  39. “””Jagr said. “I understand it’s a team game but when the game’s on the line, the individuals have to make a difference. That’s what I truly believe. If you want to be the special guy, you have to have those special moments. That’s what I play for, that’s what I live for.â€? “””

    wow. what he did last night and a couple other times flies right in the face of what he said.
    other top scorers in the league are lousy at the shootout as well, but I notice that THEY keep trying, they keep taking them, trying to get better. Jagr just quits and gives up.

    this team, will never go anywhere by depending on him.

    they need a TEAM atmosphere, not a coach who caters to the quirks of a few elitists.

  40. Jagr, who the PP is built for, who gets all the PP time and the puck, yes that Jagr has NONE ZERO PP goals in the last 26 games.

    that is the biggest example of his miserable failure.

  41. jagr knows he isnt good at break aways…..why is this an issue?? its a selfless move!!! i wish Arod would ask to be pinch hit for when he is in a clutch spot! its supposed to be the 3 best breakaway players going for the shootout, not 3 best players!!! you dont put Jphan Santana in to close games! its a specialty! cullen was great for carolina last year and nylander has the moves and does well. Prucha has done well, and hossa is the hot hand….thats where we got our top 4 from. case closed. QUIT MAKING AN ISSUE OUT OF NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!

    and no one listen to DumpJagrDope. all his facts are wrong and he is a fool. he calls our power play pathetic…..they are 4th in the east you fool! and the “decent prospect” they gave up, Jakub Petruzalek, is brutal and probably wont make the NHL. he is small, slow, and weighs less then peter prucha. he is also a soft euro which DumpJagrDope hates but it fits his pathetic attempt at an argument so he used his name hoping no one would catch on. sorry i did. now go make a new name up because you dont know dick about hockey.

  42. “Jagr, who the PP is built for, who gets all the PP time and the puck, yes that Jagr has NONE ZERO PP goals in the last 26 games.

    that is the biggest example of his miserable failure. ”

    11 PP assists in that same stretch. they are scoring on the PP….they are 4th in the east in PP%.

  43. Joe Micheletti is the one who started the issue. and since he played in the NHL for years, and knows the team culture from a player’s inside perspective, he knows a hell of a lot more than some board poster trying to defend the indefensible.

    he usually defends Jagr, but this time he knew Jagr was wrong, and he spoke out. good for him.

  44. Doodie Machetto on

    Via Spector’s Trade Rumors:

    “CHICAGO DAILY HERALD: Barry Rozner reports the Blackhawks “have been asking clubs what they might be able to offer for defenseman Brent Seabrook in hopes of snaring a No. 2 center.”

    Spector’s Note: Hat tip to Jason McLean and “Aaron”. Again, the ‘Hawks have previously denied Seabrook was available. Unless they doubt they can sign a number two centre this summer, however, it would probably take Seabrook to do it. We’ll find out soon enough, I guess.”

    Nylander? Immonen, perhaps?

  45. brett weir is an employee of the Rangers’ PR department.

    PP was pathetic last season and for a good chuck of this season, if not for Shanaan it would be brutal.

    Petruzalek slow? I guess the PR knows best, right?

  46. czechthemout!!!!! on

    they need to start the rebuild again because the last rebuild has not worked.one playoff/swept in 4 games is not good enough.they are going no where with jagr and the czech posse.they need to trade this group of vets ,who will take them to the golf course for some value (prospets/picks).i know some will complain that i am nuts you can’t trade jagr,straka,blah,blah.why not?if gretzky,shaq can be traded why not jagr?brooks just said on michael(hockey bashing/baseballkiss ass)kay show,that he thought jagr was serious when he told him that he is not good anymore.that type of attitude is not one you wan’t your captain to publicly aspouse.what signal does it send to the few young players on the team.and what does it say about his leadership ability.thisteam has to cleanse itself of the loser attitude that is permiating the locker room.best way to do it is to SELL.

  47. Seabrook I can do without, with Girardi and hopefully Staal and Baranka soon, I don’t see much need. But if Immonen or Cullen are the main part tthen I am all for it.

  48. “Nylander? Immonen, perhaps?”

    dumb fans can’t imaging not having their adored superstar. Some people are just closed minded fools that can’t grasp that it is a team sport and enterntainment, it is not about stats, and big names, and how it looks on paper.

  49. we know that what is best for Dolan’s bottom line is what will be done.

    and that means more of the same. more washed up big names to bring in corporate dollars. more bs from the PR lackeys to try to coverup the mgmt. failures and incompetence.

  50. any word on Renney being fired, Sam?

    I think Larry Brooks is trying his best, today when he “challenged” Jagr to the shootout. I think the real purpose of that article was to show up Renney as NOT being able to tell his star player what to do.

  51. Does anyone else think that there are way too many shootouts? It happens so often that it is actually getting kind of boring. There are shootouts every day. Something else needs to be done so there are fewer shootouts because when you have a shootout once in a while there is nothing better, but to see shootouts so often is too much. I hate to see a well played game by boths sides end in what really is a skills competition.

  52. yes. they were afraid of this when they crafted the new rules.

    at the time the proposal was 4-on-4 for 4 mins., and then 3-on-3 for 3 mins., then a shootout.

    that would make the shootout more rare and more exciting.

  53. so would I but then you will have people saying “gimmick” , so you can’t win no matter what you do.

  54. Shootouts are more fair and exciting than sudden death OT.

    Sudden death is pathetic, why should it matter who scores first, mabe the other team would score 3 goals if they kept playing. Pathetic how people complain about fair shootouts but don’t complain about sudden death OT, and making it 4 on 4 is pretty lame, I rather have it 5 on 5 without any offsides.

  55. I dont think a shootout is fair at all. Hockey is more than forward versus goalie. There is more to it than that. Half the hockey, which could be a strength is on the bench in most cases. Like defense. Rarely are defensemen in shootouts. Why should a team with a distinctive advantage have to give it up? That is not fair.

    Another suggestion 10 minute OT 4 on 4. Then a shootout, but OT wins should be worth more because that would give added insentive for a team to try and win in overtime instead of waiting for a shootout

  56. We Need to Rework Our Captains on

    I say next year we definitely should keep Shanny as our captain, even Stan Fischler (http://msg.typepad.com/stan_fischler/2007/02/when_is_a_capta.html)
    is saying Jagr isn’t quite acting like a captain. I enjoy watching those weekly “Inside the Rangers” and not yet have I seen Jags in ANY of the charity events. Shouldn’t a captain be at least well liked and not moody and overly conceited? His prime’s past done and I have no idea why Hossa and Nylander worship him like they do.

  57. czechthemout!!!!! on

    jagr was ,not is a great player.every player has a last great year and then he starts to fade.jagr’s was last year.he seems to have lost a step.and he is also losing his confidence.

  58. “I dont think a shootout is fair at all. Hockey is more than forward versus goalie. There is more to it than that. Half the hockey, which could be a strength is on the bench in most cases. Like defense. Rarely are defensemen in shootouts. Why should a team with a distinctive advantage have to give it up? That is not fair.

    Another suggestion 10 minute OT 4 on 4. Then a shootout, but OT wins should be worth more because that would give added insentive for a team to try and win in overtime instead of waiting for a shootout”

    but hockey is about who scores first? Why don’t you admit that shootouts are more fair than sudden death?

  59. Chezhmeout a great yr. jagr has had many great yrs. including last. The guy has 73 pts. with a damaged shoulder..

    He has 2 championships.. He loafs on occasion, is moody, and has other issues BUT he is one of the top 10 offensive players in the history of the NHL…

    That is right top 10 in the history of the sport, look it up, be fair………

  60. czechthemout!!!!! on

    stuart- i agree with almost every point you make.jagr has had many great years,but only one in the last 4.last year was his last great year.he has 73pts,a bad shoulder,but his shot is strong still yet he looks a step slower,and his quickness is not what it was last year.this has been a good season so far no doubt but far from a great one.and don’t forget about a small piece of that stanley cup puzzle who wore #66.how many cups do you think jagr would have won without mario?

  61. Doodie Machetto on

    “That is right top 10 in the history of the sport, look it up, be fair………”

    I’m a Jagr supporter, but that’s a bit outlandish.

    In no order, 10 guys who are better offensively:

    Gretzky, Lemieux, Bossy, Richard, Orr, Howe, Bure, Dionne, Hulls.

  62. Doodie Machetto on

    I left Kurri off the list intentionally. He was nothing without Gretzky. Same reason I left off Luc Robitaille. Espo I think is just right behind Jagr.

  63. Doodie Machetto on

    As in, if you started ordering them in numbers, I’d have Jagr, immediately followed by Esposito. But it’s close.

  64. czechthemout!!!!! on

    doddie-look at kurri’s stats after gretzky left.howe was not a great offesive player,never scored 50.

  65. Doodie Machetto on

    I’m even tempted to put Sidney Crosby on that list instead of a Hull. Probably Bobby. Their numbers are so close to each other though, it really doesn’t matter which.

  66. Doodie Machetto on

    1988-89 Edmonton Oilers NHL 76 44 58 102 69 7 3 5 8 6
    1989-90 Edmonton Oilers NHL 78 33 60 93 48 22 10 15 25 18
    1990-91 Milan Devils Italy 30 27 48 75 6
    1991-92 Los Angeles Kings NHL 73 23 37 60 24 4 1 2 3 4
    1992-93 Los Angeles Kings NHL 82 27 60 87 38 24 9 8 17 12
    1993-94 Los Angeles Kings NHL 81 31 46 77 48 — — — — —
    1994-95 Los Angeles Kings NHL 38 10 19 29 24 — — — — —
    1994-95 Jokerit Helsinki FNL 20 10 9 19 10 — — — — —
    1995-96 Los Angeles Kings NHL 57 17 23 40 37 — — — — —
    1995-96 New York Rangers NHL 14 1 4 5 2 11 3 5 8 2
    1996-97 Anaheim Mighty Ducks NHL 82 13 22 35 12 11 1 2 3 4
    1997-98 Colorado Avalanche NHL 70 5 17 22 12 4 0 0 0 0

    He had 2 more good years in edmonton and then took a nosedive. Nothing too compelling. Totally inflated by Gretzky. I’ll give you Howe though. Put either Crosby, Hawerchuk, or LaFleur in that last spot.

  67. I have a solution…why does JAGR PRACTICE PENALTY SHOTS IN PRACTICE AGAINSTT………………..LUNDQVIST???????????

  68. I personally find it humorous that Carolina, for their fifth-rounder, was able to get Anson Carter, who is easily a second-line player on this team, while our fifth rounder AND a prospect got us Brad Isbister.

  69. Wait a second. Did somebody actually write that Gordie Howe was not a great offensive player? And based that bit of genius on the fact that he never scored fifty goals?

    This board is tunneling downward at a fairly brisk clip.

  70. czechthemout!!!!! on

    pleas eexcuse us.how dare we take up the same area of cyber space as that great hockey genius that is talafous.

  71. “but hockey is about who scores first? Why don’t you admit that shootouts are more fair than sudden death?”

    You make ir sound like one team has a goalie and the other doesnt. It is fair. Each team has a chance to score the game winning goal right? How can you say its “unfair” Its overtime. If you want “fairness” you should win in regulation.

  72. You know whats funny? The MSG crowd gets on everybody that messes up even though they are giving 100 percent (Malik, Poti, Ozolinsh to name a few from recent times) Jagr doesnt try 1/2 the time. The guy hears the name Pandolfo and goes running to his mommy. That big goon on Toronto was said to be “shadowing him” and hegives up. There is no reason in him even showing up when the Rangers play the Devils because you know he isnt gonna give his all. Now we are seeing why Washington gave him to us for free

  73. czech

    Okay, you’ve moved from saying that Howe “was not a great offensive player, never scored fifty” to saying that Howe was not at the Gretzky Lemieux level. Congrats. That is a giant backdown from outright idiocy. The trend is positive!

  74. If I had a nickel for every time I saw Tom Poti as a NYR actively avoid contact, wimp out in front of his own net, pretend to be trying to block a shot when an infant could tell he was simply praying for it not to hit him……

  75. Reginald Dunlop on

    Hey how many regular season OT winners did Gordie Howe have?
    Maurice Richard? Bobby Orr? Phil Esposito? right all tied with NONE…..as a real hockey fan, lets get rid of all the circus garbage, the season is already long enough…..having watched games since a kid, ties never really bothered me that much….hell they claim soccer is the most popular sport in the world and they play ties, dont they? The game has become to much of a circus to win fans who never watch hockey anyway……..time to start appealing to the diehards who have always watched and will always watch, because it’s hockey……..wake up in the NY office

  76. Don’t you mean Moscow?. The cold war is over pal!

    “The coming Russian invasion of America: Why?– where?– when?” A book by Reginald Dunlop

    Check it out, only 9.99 on amazon.com. Leave the Orr’s Howe’s, and Richard’s alone you commie.

  77. Reginald Dunlop on

    LEARN TO READ………. book on amazon for 9.99……..buy it, you need it………. I must have used to much reason for you……. wear a helmet

  78. Jagr, if you’re going to the party you might as well dance.
    Its not just whether u think u could score that counts, its the leadership you need to show your teamates.
    imagine mario lemeuix refusing to go out for a S/O NOT.
    NO PRIDE IN WEARING THIS RANGER UNIFORM

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