My vote is for “The OCP” line, if only to be different

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First off, are you sure you want to go with this “COP line” tag?

For one, it has a connotation of three bloody knuckled enforcers in the Dave Schultz-Tiger Williams mold and not three fairly undersized speedy forwards. And second, if you really want to be literal, it should be the PCO line since Matt Cullen plays center and Petr Prucha is on the left.
prucha.jpg

These are the things that keep me up at night.

Either way, the Rangers seem to have stumbled upon something worthwhile with its Prucha-Cullen-Jed Ortmeyer unit; and while I don’t think a regular output like last night’s against the B’s is realistic, there is something to be said for a group that can consistently keep opponents on their heels.

“That’s true,” Prucha said. “We can’t always score three or four goals a game, but we can forecheck and keep their defense tired and open it up for Jags’ line and players like that.”

If those are among the tangible benefits of those three playing well together, consider one less obvious: at least in the case of Cullen and Prucha, you have two players who have been defining their season by the things they have NOT done thus far. Now comes an opportunity to reinvent themselves in a new role.

“It’s nice to play well, that’s the bottom line,” Cullen said. “When you’re not scoring and the team isn’t clicking, you feel like you’re not doing anything. So it’s nice to get a little consistency and play with the same faces on a nightly basis.”

Granted, as Cullen acknowledged, last night was only Game 2 of the experiment, so maybe we all shouldn’t get ahead of ourselves.

And that means you still have time to re-think the name.

A few more updates:

  • Michal Rozsival has what is being described as a slight MCL sprain in his knee. He missed practice today, and his status for tomorrow is unclear.
  • Naturally, this leaves the door open for Thomas Pock to return to the lineup, and again, Tom Renney was asked if it’s detrimental to have a young skater sit out too long. “Only if he allows it to be,” Renney said. “He has to stay buoyant. He has to stay connected to the team task…Tommy’s a good man and he wants badly to play and he believes he should be. And that’s great.”

    Why, then, does Pock sit? Again it goes back to Pock learning the position better, and specifically understanding when to gamble and when not to. I can’t say he’s been any more of a liability than some of the other defensemen, which is why Pock’s absence from the lineup is a much more popular topic of conversation than, say, Colton Orr’s. But at least Renney seems to understand that Pock has plenty of upside.

    “You like a little bit of risk in him, but sometimes he gets caught a little deep, which we’ve talked about,” the coach said. “He just has to show good judgment and understand the risk-reward.”

  • I asked Henrik Lundqvist if he had a chance to see the new show, “No. 30 Henrik Lundqvist” (which prominently features my predecessor Andrew Gross), but the goaltender said not yet.

    “Is it on MSG?” he said.

    Don’t worry, Henk. I’m sure someone will dig up a tape for you.

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    122 Comments

    1. the line looked great and actually is well contructed. Renney is still a moron for sitting pock. its a shame its going to take an injury to get him into the lineup, because malik sure played like someone who wants to be a healthy scratch. He was horrendous last night. Sam Shanahan in the past has seemed to embrace playing with kids, what do we have to lose trying immonen with him at least until sather makes a move for a center. Betts is a good contributor but he is clearly not the answer for Shanny. We should let Immo or dubinsky play with shanny and callahan(who by the way NEEDS to be up immediately). Hall has had his chance and has proved to be a stiff, ward as well. Krog never should of been picked up in the first place. A couple good games is no reason to be complacent. That is what seperates the rangers from everyone else. They seem to play well for a couple games and Renney refuses to change anything in the lineup. Instead he should look for our deficiencies from the game (although their were not many last night) and see where we can improve. As the days go by though Renney coaches more and more like Colin Campbell, scared to let the kids show what they’ve got.

      Sam, What will it take for Callahan to get a real shot in your mind?

    2. “What will it take for Callahan to get a real shot in your mind?”

      My Opinion is injuries

    3. You can not tell me if callahan got a real shot, that he would be more of a detriment to the team than say adam hall or jason ward. I bet his offensive numbers would be more than theirs combined and its not like he could hit much less than them. I think adam hall thinks he is the new tom poti

    4. Longtimerangerfan on

      Renney speaking about Pock…“You like a little bit of risk in him, but sometimes he gets caught a little deep, which we’ve talked about,â€? the coach said. “He just has to show good judgment and understand the risk-reward.â€?

      At least he doesn’t turn the puck over and over again like Malikenstein. I just don’t get Renney…last year he deserved to be in the running for Coach of the year but this year he just leaves me scratching my head!

    5. Oh you’re right. However, Renney doesn’t sit those who deserve to play. He sits those who make less $$$$. Plain and simple. They aren’t going to sit Malik because he makes money and he actually has some value so they aren’t going to waive him. It’s too expensive to have Malik sit. Same goes for the likes of Adam Hall.

    6. you can call them whatever you want. They are the most exciting thing to happen on this team since the first game of the season. Maybe there is still some hope for the season. Oh yeah, almost forgot -Malik must go!

    7. That line looked real good last night I hope he sticks with them, hopefully Orr can play tomorrow night and mix it up with the Leafs..they will play us tough.

    8. Predicition – Dubinsky will get a chance to center the 2nd line before the trade, if only to make sure they need to trade for a center. plus, it will allow them to assess whether they need to sign a Chris Drury in the off-season. Unfortunately, players like Dubinsky, Callahan and Baranka won’t get a chance until the Rangers can move out the likes of Hall, Ward, Hossa or Malik. Understandably, they are hoping to see if someone will give them something, instead of waiving them.

    9. Renney complains about Pock getting himself out of position-does Tommy boy need bi-focals to watch Malik and Rachunek every single night???

    10. I agree with longtimerangersfan. last year renney was a completely different coach than he is now. He has done a complete 180. last year he sat nylander for a game because he took 3 bad penalties in the game prior to that. The rangers responded and won. It sent a message who was in charge. Renney no longer has that kind of command on this team. In fact while last year he seemed to know what buttons to push, this year his moves defy logic and often times need to deflate the team. Examples include timing of putting weekes in. Why did weekes play 3 of the 4 games against the sabres. Its like mailing the games in before they start.

    11. is that OCP as in ..

      You down with OCP (Yeah you know me)
      Who’s down with OCP (Every last homie)
      You down with OCP (Yeah you know me)
      Who’s down with OCP (All the homies)

    12. face it whatever renney says about pock is bull. tomas pock is on this team to be the number 7 dman thats it end of story. he doesn’t like him anymore than he liked jason strudwick. he wants him to stay focused but i promise you they’ll offer him a deal to be the seventh guy again next year and he’ll either take it or leave it. take that to the bank renney doesn’t seem him as part of the future.

    13. just think .. the garden organist can play a little Naughty by Nature everytime the OCP line scores a goal ..and the whole Garden can sing the Chorus!!!!

      Sam – use your journalistic pull to make this happen!

      Who’s down with OCP? — ALL THE HOMIES!!!

    14. kovy27

      And, if both Baranka and Staal are ready, with Tyutin, Rozsival and Girardi already here, i’m not sure where Pock fits anyway. I’d rather see Pock playing than Malik (that’s a given), and he’s played a better defensive game than I’ve expected from him, it still wouldn’t shock me to see him moved before the deadline if the Rangers look to upgrade at 2nd line center or on D, (did someone say Eric Brewer?)

    15. stf

      I think we will, but, the Rangers have to move bodies out. The easy option is to waive Orr and Krog. But, my guess is, while most Ranger fans think player like Hossa, Hall, Ward and such have no value, maybe Sather/Maloney try to squeeze a mid to late round pick, just so they are not just dumping any value these guys MIGHT have.

    16. Sam

      Why, then, does Pock sit? Again it goes back to Pock learning the position better, and specifically understanding when to gamble and when not to

      Is that your quote and reasoning or the Rangers?

    17. Did everyone see how much it cost for Conroy? I want no part of trading kids and or picks for a second line center. It costs too much and this team is too far away to be doing something like that.

    18. Well, in the medical world, OCP’s are the short way to refer to Oral Contraceptives. I’m not sure that’s all that flattering. It would be sort of like bringing up Greg Moore and putting him on a line with Prucha and Shanahan and calling it the PMS line. Not a great connotation to be getting in to, see?

    19. Tsalad

      What exactly was the price? The only real asset I saw was the 2nd round pick. Lundmark’s been a disaster, (4th team in less than two years) and the 4th rounder is a crapshoot. Calgary probably overpaid, because they placed value on Conroy’s specific success with Iginla. I don’t think that deal suddnely sets the market.

    20. jas

      You would pay a 2nd and a 4th rd pick for Conroy? Every other center just went up in price.

    21. Can somebody explain any logic or justification in dressing Adam Hall? What is his role? Did he even play last night? Did he contribute anything offensively or otherwise?
      I know he played – but he was totally invisible.

    22. Prucha+Cullen+Ortmeyer=Percolator Line

      Sure, it’s a stretch, but they’re hot and making some noise!

    23. Watching Malik and Rachunek turn the puck over and get caught out of position on a nightly basis and listen to tommy boy just pick on pock is a joke. I can’t stand renney, i really can’t. he would be better off not speaking than the crap that comes out of his mouth..

      i would think orr gets into the lineup wed for toronto…renney and managements job is to find a way to get cally into the lineup and even dubinsky…betts cannot be shannys center, its’ just not realistic….

    24. I made an observation about Adam Hall in the previos post, but I made it way too late for most people to see it.

      I personally see Adam Hall as a similar player to Mike Knuble when Knuble was on the Rangers. In my opinion the team should be patient with him.

      Hall is on the 4th line right now, so I don’t see why anyone should be complaining about him. He isn’t going to score a ton of goal on that line, and he plays a moderately physical game which is his role as a fourth line winger.

      Eventually, Hall is going to get paired with someone that he will click with and he will become a good offensive player. I just hope it happens while he is with the Rangers.

    25. Doodie Machetto on

      jas- conroy has 16 points this season. he’s been lousy, and they aren’t banking on his success with iginla because Langkow and Iginla have clicked so well this season.

    26. Why not give Jason Allison a shot. Only 31, great set up man for Shanny and you don’t have to give any players up to get him.

    27. Gregg —

      If your definition of “picking on” a player is not playing him, then you’re right, Renney is picking on Pock.

      But let’s be clear those quotes are in response to questions from us about why that player isn’t playing. It’s sort of like the whole Jarkko “foot speed” comment, which in my view has been blown out of proportion. In that case, too, Renney had gone on at length about the things he liked about Immonen, and then when he was asked about what he needed to work on, Renney mentioned foot speed. He never said, “he won’t play in the NHL because he lacks foot speed,” which for some reason has been how it’s been interpreted.

      Anyway, I’m not picking on you specifically since you otherwise make a good point about Rachunek and Malik. But I figured it deserved clarification.

      Sam

    28. I have to disagree about Renney being a completely different coach last year. He was doing the same exact thing, Jagr was still running the team. The only thing is because Jagr is slumping a little bit this year it looks as if the team is worse. Last year Jagr carried the team not Renney.

    29. Doodie Machetto on

      Brian- think about this for a second:

      Allison is SLOW. He’s an incredible defensive liability. Teams are about to give up their entire futures to land Forsberg who might not even be available for more than5 or 10 games. And STILL no one has signed him.

      If you want a slow playmaking center, we might as well use Immonen. At least he is more defensively responsible.

    30. Doodie Machetto on

      If its between OCP and COP, I’m with COP.

      I still think we should do POC though. Maybe Renney will see good things happen when you have POC on the ice… and dress Pock as a result.

    31. Don’t know if it’s because I watch the games on the Center Ice Package or with Tivo, but what’s the Henrik show? is that a joke?

      Also, Sam, I see quotes from the COP line, but not from Renney. Is he on board with his first succesful creation or is he getting ready to break it up? Of course, knowing him, if questioned, he’ll give you some bland non-quote about “time will tell…we hope it works, and it seems like maybe perhaps possibly it might, for now, but all the guys, who are great and fine and good men and professionals, need to be ready to play with whomever…”

    32. Doodie Machetto on

      Chris, are you just jaded that he replaced you as his speech writer? Because CLEARLY you have written them for him before.

    33. Chris —

      No, Tom was pretty up on them — he likes their speed, likes their north-south style, etc. But remember what I said earlier about how Renney’s quotes take too long to transcribe? It’s usually just a timing issue. But I’ve since gone ahead and done so, so here goes:

      “Obviously there’s synergy there and that’s huge for any line combination. And obviously they have a nose for the net and they’re not afraid to go there…I think the biggest key is they advance the puck and they don’t relinquish any speed, and consequently have other teams going back.”

    34. Burnsy

      I hope your right on Hall.

      Knuble was a big scorer in the NCAA and get better production every year while in college. Hall did not. Knuble made his mark with one of the greatest passers in the last 10 years in Joe Thornton. I don’t know if Hall ever will get a chance to play with someone of that caliber. I hope for the best with Hall but he’s not doing much this season.

    35. love it after every goal at the garden they score the pa blasts naughty by nature.

      YOU DOWN WITH OCP!!! fans: YAH YOU KNOW ME

      rinse and repeat love it much better than the pig line i mean cop line :)

    36. I’m down with OCP (Ethan, you beat me to it. The song popped in my head the minute I read the headline!)

      Sam- I get the fact that the comments are generated by pointed questions, but it does seem like he’s reaching for excuses. I remember that there were some gambles Pock took in his brief callups in the past, but I can’t remember too many this year, if any. I know it’s tough to ask direct questions about a player you have to cover, but I would want to know whether he sees anything that needs improvement from some of his veteran D-men (who can remain nameless) who seem to make the same mistakes over and over again with no reduction in icetime.

    37. To me it looks like the Rangers are gambling/hoping that either Hossa or Hall develop into a good power forward. It is worth the shot, and not completely unrealistic. Most likely neither Hall or Hossa will play with a center like Thorton, so lets hope that isn’t a necessary prequisite for their development.

      The thing I like about the Rangers is that they have a few undrafted players on the team in: Girardi, Pock, and Ortmeyer, and they are all realitively young. They also have an undrafted defensemen coming back from injury for the Wolfpack.

      That should be a wake up call for every Ranger prospect. Your chances of making the team have nothing to do with your draft position, but everything to do with being ready.

    38. My PP Units: Two different looks,

      Straka-Nylander-Jagr

      Rachunek-Pock

      Prucha-Ortmeyer-Shanahan

      Tyutin-Cullen

    39. Doodie Machetto on

      Billy Ranger, you have successfully come up with the most ineffective PP unit in history. Not only would it not score very often, but it would give up as many shorties as goals it would score.

    40. Doodie Machetto on

      I don’t even think they need to switch it up, I just think that Jagr or Nylander needs to drive to the net in order to keep the defenses honest. This also means there needs to be shots from the point, especially Rozsi.

    41. A few observations:
      Anthony is absolutely on the mark earlier. Renney won’t sit the guys making bigger bucks, and that’s probably not by choice, but on orders from above. So you won’t see the Malik’s and Rachunek’s of the world sit when they are healthy.
      Everyone proclaimed Renney a genius last year. Some said it was for getting Jagr to buy into his system. But as a number of people have pointed out, it was really Renney buying into Jagr’s system (and Sather’s — see above), and Jagr had a fantastic year last season. This year, it’s not all there. Why? Because Jagr is not all there, at least physically.
      Chris, the show Sam was referring to is the MSG production on Lundqvist. It’s basically a 30 minute (22 without the ads) life story/highlight compilation on specific Ranger players. They’ve done Messier, Leetch and Richter previously, and Henrik is the first of the current Ranger roster to get this ‘star’ treatment.
      To be safe, I wouldn’t have the COP line put on a t-shirt until Renney keeps the together for at least 5 or 6 more games (and they continue to get results).

    42. If Toronto drops out of playoff contention, would you want Mats Sundin and how much would you pay for him?

    43. It’s funny. Before the game yesterday, I was thinking that Chara and Savard were the two free-agents we should have gotten instead of Ward and Cullen. Cullen outplayed Savard yesterday, and Chara wasn’t that great, but I still wouldn’t mind having a big guy on defense who actually plays physical (unlike Malikenstein).

    44. Doodie Machetto on

      Man, I just watched the highlights of the game and it just reminded me of how well they have played.

      Ortmeyer should be an alternate captain.

    45. Doodie Machetto on

      They should’ve made the pitch for Chara, but they had to make the pitch for Elias, which I’m REALLY not blaming them for. I think that was actually a really smart move, because if we got him, great. If we didn’t, NJ is screwed cap wise. Bye bye Scott Gomez!

    46. Doodie- I agree as far as liking Tucker’s overall game (even though I despise playing against him), but we need a center more than we need Tucker. I’m not saying I’m sold on Sundin, and I saw that Tucker was being shopped out west, but I don’t know where we would put him.

    47. From what I can see, Hall doesn’t have Knuble’s hands. Knuble is a natural goal-scorer. A lot more skill than Hall. Knuble also hangs around the net, which Hall, nor anyone else beside Prucha does on this team. Maybe if the offensive philosophy changes, and Hall can use his size in front, then he’ll be half as good as Knuble.

    48. Colorado Mark: Savard is better than any center we have or will have for years to come. Chara: ditto. Should have gone after both instead of Cullen and Shanny. Savard would have solidified the offense, Chara would have made the d much, much better.

    49. “”Tom Renney was asked if it’s detrimental to have a young skater sit out too long. “Only if he allows it to be,â€? Renney said. “He has to stay buoyant. He has to stay connected to the team task…Tommy’s a good man and he wants badly to play and he believes he should be. And that’s great.â€?””
      …………

      “only if he allows it to be.” he’s not allowing anything, Retch-ey. YOU are benching him. yes, he badly wants to play. and YOU are badly preventing him from doing so.

      If you are not in the posse, you don’t please the boss-e

    50. Sam, does Tom remember if you take Orts off & put Shanny on, that was his #2 line that did ok but he decided it was broke, and he’s still trying to fix Shanny’s line? His patience level varies widely . Plus Prucha & Cullen have reawoken since the break.

    51. Doodie Machetto on

      I would take Shanahan over Savard or Chara simply for the character and leadership he brings. Not to mention he’s a proven winner, while Chara has been on nothing but playoff chokeing teams. Savard’s never even been to the playoffs!

      The root of our 2nd line center problem doesn’t come from not acquiring one in the offseason, it comes from Jagr and Shanahan not having ANY chemistry. If they did, Straka would be centering the 2nd line, and we wouldn’t have this problem.

    52. Doodie Machetto on

      bklynblue: That’s why I suggested reuniting that line, but I think the reason it works better with Ortmeyer instead of Shanahan is because they are being used at the times a 3rd line would be used instead of a 2nd. This means they are out there against less defensively resposible lines that can get pinned into their own zone with hustle.

    53. The Rangers are playing it safe, so to speak, with Hall and Hossa. Both players have the size and grit to be servicable 3rd and 4th liners.

      If they ever develop enough offense to become “actual” second line players ( I know Hossa is currently on the second line but that is an enigma ), then the Ranger’s have hit the jackpot by developing the ever-so-elusive home grown power forward.

      If it doesn’t pan out that way, and they wait too long for these guys to develop into something they will never become, then the worst that has happened is that the Ranger’s have possibly stunted the growth of a potentially better 3rd or 4th line prospect, which shouldn’t get anyone exasperated.

      The real problem with this team is the obvious lack of a consitently contributing second line. If we had a good second line, and we are only lacking a second line center, then the other lines become set and they all look above average.

      I haven’t figured out the defense yet, but we have some nice defensive prospects, so I have faith that things will get better… eventually.

    54. Savard is a 100 pt. a year player who makes his wings better than they are, not to mention amazing on the pp. Chara is a force, physically and as a puck mover. And we have…Matt Cullen, a third line center and Aaron Ward, a #5 d-man.

      Next season, if Malik and Rachunek are gone (please God), I’d go after Sheldon Souray, who will be UFA. Souray, Tyutin, Roszival, Girardi, Ward, Pock, Baranka, Staal. NIIIIIIICE!

    55. I hate to break it to you, but “homegrown” players means kids drafted and developed by the team. NOT mid-age castoffs from other teams.

    56. Sam

      To me Renney picking on a player is when he benches them. Why does Malik and Rachunek never seem to get the hook? Even A. Ward can be grouped with those 2. They turn the puck over and get caught out of position more than any other defenseman on the team, yet they never get benched unless for injury.

      For some reason with Renney it seems he chooses the same guys to exploit and bench. Nylander, prucha, Kaspar, pock, and any rookie called up from hartford.

      Besides the defense, the biggest problem with this team with cullen as the 3rd line center, we have 2 centers who don’t provide much offense in betts and Krog. Only one of them should be in the lineup..not to mention we could use another winger who can score…

    57. chardkerm : The crazy thing about Hall is that last season he lived within 3 feet of the net it seemed. Every time I watched a game with him in it he was in the goalies face…I don’t get why he is so afraid of the area now…

    58. Sam how long is Renney going to stick with the #1 unit & give them 3/4 of the 2 minutes? Is he ever going to put Cullen on the point on the PP?

    59. Ok, just stop with the ocp, poc, cop – those are all horrible names.

      Just when FLY line was starting to go away….

      Ha, FLY line LOL

    60. I agree with you about the term “homegrown”, but it shouldn’t dimish the essence of what I am saying. Having a player develop into power forward, though not necessarily homegrown, is what the Rangers are looking for instead of going out and aquiring an already established power forward.

      Look at Bertuzzi. He didn’t hit his stride, thankfully, until he was traded to Vancouver.

      Martin St.Louis, although not a power forward, developed into a star player in Tampa Bay. He isn’t a homegrown product, but you don’t think of St.Louis being a product of Calgary either.

      That is what I feel the Rangers are trying to find, and it’s not like there is a lot of risk in them trying, because these guys are on the 3rd and 4th lines for now.

    61. Dose everyone realize that about 75% of the time the 1st PP unit has control of the puck IN the offensive zone for a 1:30+ Its not like Renney just lets them take 3 or 4 face-offs or carry the puck out 5 or 6 times…usually they have control and flow for over a minute…I do think however that he needs to START with the #2 PP unit…and try Cullen on the Point on the 1st PP…even put Straka on the point of the 2nd.

      Prucha/Nylander/Jagr
      Cullen/Roszival

      Shanny/Orts/Hall(or Hossa, Callahan, Immo, Dawes, Dubinski)
      Straka/Pock

    62. you love Hall and Hossa. you are in a tiny minority. and this comment is ridiculous.

      “if it doesn’t pan out that way, and they wait too long for these guys to develop into something they will never become, then the worst that has happened is that the Ranger’s have possibly stunted the growth of a potentially better 3rd or 4th line prospect, which shouldn’t get anyone exasperated.”

      THAT is exactly what is wrong with the Rangers. bringing in castoffs from other teams, and stunting the growth of homegrown players. that IS exasperating.

    63. I am not in love with either Hossa or Hall. I just don’t understand all the hate these guys get.

      They are excellent 4th liners and decent 3rd liners. There is also the potential for them to develop into more than just 3rd liners, while doing a good job in their current roles. They are low risk players.

      The Rangers have an excellent First line and better than average third and forth lines. The real problem is the second line. Neither Hossa nor Hall are preventing any of the Ranger’s prospects from making the second line.

      I am going to throw out some scenarios for the heck of it:

      Scenario 1:

      What if we get rid of Hossa and Hall and bring up some kids from Hartford to replace them for the sake of “rebuilding”, and either of Hall or Hossa puts it together and becomes a valuable second line player on some other team? That would drive all of us nuts.

      Scenario 2:

      We get rid of Hall and Hossa and neither of them become more than what they are today: competent role players. We bring up some kids whom replace them, and we have gotten a little younger. It will most likely be years before either of the kids develop enough to make the second line, if it happens at all.

      Scenario 3:

      We keep Hall and Hossa and one of them develops into a bonifide second line player. So we can slide them up to the second line and slide in a kid from Hartford to the forth line where he can develop in the NHL and earn his way up the ranks.

      I really don’t see the problem with keeping these guys for now, but I can see trading them away coming back to haunt us.

      Lets get rid of Krog. That was a useless pick up. At least Hossa and Hall are still young enough to develop into something better.

    64. “”Neither Hossa nor Hall are preventing any of the Ranger’s prospects from making the second line.””

      the hell they’re not. earlier Prucha was on the 4th line so those 2 could play ahead of him. Callahan is being held back by those 2 among others.

      and the Krog and Isbister joke additions that have held kids back. not to mention the benching of Pock so Bozo could do his clown act.

    65. Think Nashville is missing Hall at all? I sure don’t. Best record in the league says they made the right move. They’re laughing at the Rangers all season now.

    66. right. and Rangers traded a C who could skate, a solid 4th liner, a homegrown kid, for Hall’s awkward skating act.

    67. Burnsy,

      My contention with both Hall and Hossa is that they’ve been playing long enough that the odds of them developing into much more than what they are now gets longer by the day. Both have been pros for six seasons, and both have already been passed on by previous organizations…chances are they’re close to their threshhold in terms of developing.

      I could perhaps overlook those odds a little if I’d seen improvement in the way they’ve played this year over last. You might be able to make the argument that Hossa is a little better defensively than he was last year, but his offense seems to be weaker to offset that. Hall seems to be having problems getting back to what appeared to be status quo with him over the past three years, which was still not really enough to warrant keeping him around.

      I also might overlook these two guys if they contributed to areas that the Rangers are weak in at the moment. They’re 5th and 6th amongst PKing forwards, which is something, but hardly irreplaceable, and neither are particularly quick with the puck or use their size/strength to their advantage. Their shots (which generally don’t improve with experience) are below average, especially the amount of time it takes to get the shot off.

      Even if they consistently played with desire like Ortmeyer does…Hall seems to be a non-factor, Hossa has his moments but is far to inconsistent.

      The other thing to consider for me would be whether these guys are really holding anyone back. To be honest the only guy that I really see being held back by these specific players is Ryan Callahan. I think Callahan is likely to be a third line forward, and it’d be nice to give him a longer look there.

    68. YEAH, you people should realize the #1PP unit controls the puck for 1 1/2 minutes takes 2 or 3 shots, then turns it over to usually 1/2 of a second unit for 20 seconds. They are now 15 for the last 115 on the PP & haven’t scored in 28 straight, BUT THEY CONTROL THE PUCK, there’s an accomplihment! No notes or video from Renney for them, they’re vets . Go back & read Brooks’ definition of insanity. Renney won’t change a thing on the #1 PP, it’s worked before it will work again, eventually he’ll prove himself right. Two rules: 1. the boss is always right. 2. When the boss is wrong, read rule #1.

    69. chardkerm can you imagine the notes & video he’d have to put together for Malik, starting with hockey for dummies and mummies.

    70. chard:

      “But he’s got plenty of notes and video for “Pockyâ€? to digest.”

      The sad thing is that the video probably features Roszival, Malik, Rachunek and Ward coughing up the puck and waving at opposing forwards as they blow by.

    71. Where in the rule book does it say that there has to be a d-man on the PP ???

      Straka and shanny both have hard slapshot get pruchs or cullin in front of the net and let it fly

      enough of this play it by the book crap

    72. HossaMVP : Hossa/Hall were on the upper lines because Prucha was on the 4th…NOT the other way around. Alot of times this year, Prucha has NOT played well….he just didnt play well at all at times. He seems to be getting his game back again…each and every time he was sent to a lower line he played hard and looked like his old self again, but than after a game or two on the 2nd line he started to slump again. I am hoping that the 3rd line with Cullen and Orts will end up being the sweet spot for him in the lineup. Than a guy like Dawes or someone can get onto the 2nd line LW spot, along with Callahan in the future on the RW spot, and hopefuly Dubinski at center. Maybe not next year, but for sure the Year after…only because I think Shanny will be back for one more. Anyway, I agree with keeping one young guy who could Develope, if one is kept I say Hossa, at least he works hard on most nights. Hall has been VERY disapointing.

    73. thank you WildRenney for your fervent company line defense of Tommy boy. I expected nothing less.

    74. In my opinion, the only two forward prospects that are being held back at the moment are:
      Immonnen, it is pretty obvious that the organization feels he is not the answer though. There has to be something behind the scenes that isn’t being discussed.

      Callahan, whom is in his first year in the AHL, so there is really no need to rush him up this year. He should be up next year by all accounts though.

      The other forward prospect that is close but not quite ready in my opinion is Dawes.

      Active roster players that are being held back is possibly Prucha.

      Prucha is talented enough to be on the second line, but we don’t have a center that is a good fit for Shanahan and Prucha on the wings. The only thing holding Prucha back is that lack of a second line center. It has nothing to do with Hall or hossa.

      I would cut bait with Ward next year. Also get rid of Krog immediately.

      That frees up two forward spots for Callahan and one other Hartford kid ( Dawes? ). During the course of the year there will be injuries and trades, so there will most likely be some call up windows for a couple more forwards.

      We need to get Girardi and Pock in the starting lineup on a consistent basis, so we need to get rid of Malik. It is mind boggling that he starts every game.

      I don’t think this team is mishandling it’s prospects. Our biggest problem is the lack of a second line center.

    75. Moore? Greg Moore? did someone mention this 2 way, intelligent, hard hitter who impressed in camp but then was buried with no minutes in hartford??

      Mainers are not happy. They weren’t too hip on New York to begin with, but when NY drafted the home town boy, they moaned.

      No way Pock signs with us unless something really strange happens….like Renney gets fired and the new coach plays youth and Pock is part of the future under the said new coach…

      but, I think I’ll score my first goal in hell before that happens.

    76. Greg Moore was not drafted by the Rangers. He was drafted by Calgary then traded to New York in the Chris Simon deal

    77. Sam I hope you don’t mind the Dellapina but you need to get this in put into English. I know it’s just hockey not life but Renney talks like a politician or a lawyer, maybe a car salesman, with CYA the main goal……
      …“I thought about it,” Renney said of scratching a different defenseman. “But we did have a decent day yesterday to regroup. And I like the way our team played in Philadelphia. So I don’t know if it’s a case of: ‘If it isn’t broke, don’t fix it.’ Because I’m not going to suggest we’re not a little broken.”Having said that, it was a pretty complete win ( Sam…2-1 is now a complete win? what was 6-1? )for us. And I want to see if we can get some momentum off that with this lineup and go from there.â€?“I could probably be guilty of even over-thinking that kind of stuff,” Renney said. “I’m all about development. My history would certainly suggest that.“What I’ve had to learn is making the tough choices between development and dressing the appropriate lineup. And that’s incumbent with my position on the team. And I completely accept that and take full responsibility for it.“But I think about that stuff a lot. And my history would suggest that I’m a development coach. Some days I’m going to nail it. Some days I’m not. But I’ll always defend my choices.“I had a really good chat with Pockie yesterday and we’ll put together some more clips for him. This kid is an NHL defenseman. There’s no two ways about it. And I’m quite excited about (Daniel) Girardi and Pock – and we’ve got a couple of more down there – it’s really exciting to be a part of.“Again, it’s the paradox of coaching and trying to win for the moment and realizing there are some growth to be had there. So as much as I’m sure a lot of people think that Pock should be in there every night for the great things that he does, there are some areas that he needs to shore up. And he can’t do that by himself.“That is coaching and that is development. And we have to pay attention to our side of the equation in helping him do that.””So it’s all about my relationship not only with him but with all of my players. Those good young players that I want to see here in the future, they have to understand me, I have to understand them and there has to be a mutual trust there that we’re going to grow this asset to the point where they’re a full-time Ranger.“And if they believe that, like what they see and the landscape looks good for them, great. And if they don’t, then they certainly have the option to do other things. And I respect that.”…. that’s more than a mouthful.

    78. BILLY L

      >>>Where in the rule book does it say that there has to be a d-man on the PP ???Straka and shanny both have hard slapshot get pruchs or cullin in front of the net and let it fly. enough of this play it by the book crap

    79. BILLY L

      >>>Where in the rule book does it say that there has to be a d-man on the PP ???Straka and shanny both have hard slapshot get pruchs or cullin in front of the net and let it fly. enough of this play it by the book crap.

      Its not by the book, its common snese. Your forwards will get toasted for shorthanded goals left and right because of their inexperience playing D. Not many forwards can do it. Do I need to remind you of the disaster the Rucinsky experiment was on the point last year?

    80. One Mucker(Orts) One Passer (Cullen) and One shooter(Prucha) = a solid hockey line. Please see:

      Hodge-Cashman-Esposito
      Hadfield-Rattelle-Gilbert
      Gilles-Trttier-Bossy
      Mcsorley-Kurri-Gretzky
      Taylor-Simmer-Dionne
      Robert-Martin-Perrault

    81. czechthemout!!!!! on

      bklynblue-if you remeber to the days of colon cancer.he personaly ran one of the 10 best defenseman in the nhl the last ten years ,out of town.it is realy quite simple the hyeena does not like pock and will use any excuse not to play him.the hyeena will cut off his own nose to spite his face. and so without any furthe”adew”bring up callahan!!!!!

    82. czech,,, who are you talking about?… on Callihan you’ll have to check with wildmissingcard on that. He knows better than everyone, and also has a mindreading ability far beyond mortal man. He believes in leaving guys in the minors, no matter who say different, because he was left back in kindergarten.

    83. Longtimerangerfan on

      Hadfield-Rattelle-Gilbert

      That was the GAG line (goal a game) maybe if the Cullen-Ortmeyer-Prucha line stays together for more than two minutes we will come up with a better name for them.

    84. Lets cut Malik and Rachunek and play Pock and Brian Leetch. I hear that Brian Leetch is a pretty good hockey player and can play on the PP as well.

      Oh, that’s right, we traded him away for “lead foot” Jarkko Immonen (that is the Rangers opinion of him, not mine) who doesn’t get a chance and now he is sitting around at home laughing about how badly we could use him back.

    85. HOSSAMVP … your right about WildRenney, he even uses rennyisms, developement. He’s volunteered to interpret for the NYR spin zone and their talking points, even the ones he makes up….I get dizzy when I read or hear Renney, & then I get annoyed with his …if you can’t dazzle them with your intellect, baffle them with your BS speeches . …It’s sometimes insulting, and then his volunteer soldier , Wildaboutrenney , comes here to tell everyone how it really is in his mind, spinning. He’s a legend in his own mind. He even thinks knows more than Sam. Wild missinglink thing is full of horsehockey, that he learnt from Renney speeches.

    86. Longtimerangerfan on

      Leetch is probably happy he got of “Rangerland” anyway it’ll be nice when they retire his number…oh wait, he has to wait his turn and develop down in Hartford for a few more years (according to Wildcard).

    87. maybe we should send him the tapes on Malikenstein so he can study someone elses mistakes while he pulls the splinters out of his ass. And who knows, he may not be developed enough to play with Hartford, we may have to send him to Charolette to refine his foot speed and decision making.

    88. Longtimerangerfan on

      Maybe I should send Malikenstein my copy of the ’72 book Playing Hockey the Professional Way by Rod Gilbert & Brad Park…it even has pictures in it!

    89. I still don’t think he could make the connection. I doubt they could even get some sort of 3-D video simulation to help. Maybe they should sit him down with and X-Box 360 for a few weeks, or months, or years.

    90. just wondering if anyone just saw the devils/atlanta shootout where marian hossa made almost the smae play on brodeur as marcel hossa? its pretty funny seeing brodeur miss it twice.

    91. czech at least he was here for 94, now we can all die in peace unless & until it happens again.

    92. If all Boston wants is a pick for Boyes, that’s worth it, and the just waive an Orr or a Krog.

      How about Mike York for Adam Hall? Put him with Shanahan and see if they have any chemistry together.

    93. Sam: Anthony & Jaames are correct in their assessments of the Pock situation as well as other issues they raise.
      Rangers play their players according to $$$$$$$$$$$$ their salaries. Kaspar is the lone exception. Pock has a excellent shot from the point and should be playing on the PP. His shot is always on net or close enough for a re-direction. Sather plays all the others Hossa, Hall, Malik,
      Betts and the 2 Wards to enhance their value…don’t think
      you’ll ever see them on waivers…he would have to admit
      his brain was transplanted to the wrong part of his body.

    94. bklynblue, HossaMVP…are you two related?? Cause you both are major richard craniums, and its not very good. You put more effort into being silly bullies than discussing hockey. In fact you don’t even discuss hockey, all you do is try to show how tough you by saying how stupid others are…and putting down other people opinions. You were beat up as children weren’t you…I feel sorry for people like you…no lives, no happiness except in putting others down. Its rather sad…I think everyone here should spend at least 5 min a day writing something to make you feel better…maybe that would help. LOL…what a couple of lowly humans this blog has attracted. You know, and adult would be able to see someone’s opinion, and if it was different than theirs, they would discuss it, not try to rip it apart with 2nd grade humor. The only thing less imaginative than your, ahhemm, additions to this blog are your handles…wow…what did you put 30 seconds into coming up with something??

    95. Howard Samara : I really think that Sather is trying to move a D from the Rangers…and NOT a young guy…even Rachunek i think he views as higher on the don’t trade list than Malik, and Ward, and even Roszival. I have said that next year one vet should be there on D…I say Ward, he can sit on the 3rd pair…and he has won a cup, its valuable experience to have for young blue liners. But I think part of Malik playing is that they want to move him, if only to clear up cap space for the off-season and signing a center…like Drury or someone if possible.

    96. Also…I would give York a try…if he didn’t cost to much…With Shanny he may do well…and call up Dawes or something for the other side…or switch Shanny and bring up Callahan…I really think Callahan can play on any line…just from teh few shifts he had in NY it seems his game is a kind of, do all, type of game. Just like Prucha can look good on any line, maybe not score as much on a lower line, but he can look like he is getting something done on most nights I think Callahan could…so if he were to get 8-10 min a night on the 4th line and maybe some 2nd unit PP time here and there he would do just fine…and than over time he could move up to the 3rd line and 2nd line…unlike Dawes I think he is a player than can handle the different roles on the team, were as Dawes is purely a scoring line player.

    97. sigmund wilcaed good try from an amateur. now practice what you preach. It’s a rare occassion you agree with anyone besides trying to stick up for mgmt not matter what they do or say, and then you add to it with maybe they’re doing this or that for fantasy. Try self analysis.

    98. bklynblue : your so full of it…I don’t just blindly stick up for management…get a grip…I have been against many things they do…when it comes to Pock, and Immo, I thought he should have started the year….I also think he should still be up…I just agree with MANY people that he doesn’t have great foot speed…but that he has the smarts to overcome it if he works during the game…but that he is inconsistent at times…and he showed that this year. Dawes didn’t look confident early on this season, he was sent down, rightfully so IMHO, but now its time to make room for him…Callahan, should get a recall, but if not than its OK, cause the AHL wont kill him…and its better he be a top player down there and go for the Calder cup than play a limited role for the Rangers and get a round or two in the playoffs…those are MY opinions…and have NOTHING to do with management. Again…you cant figure out that someone could have different opinions than the mindless anti Sather crowd that you are in. It seems at times that you don’t even think, you just look at what Sather and co say and go the opposite way, with ought thought…its funny really…Sather could say he hates Krog, and you would find something in it to bitch about. I haven’t changed my views on the team or the way to handle youth ever…so this isn’t something new…just this year…or even last year. SO I don’t know why people are all of a sudden on me, when I years past it seems so many agreed….it just seems that NOW a lot of other people have changed what the say is the right thing to do…I just keep going the same way…I have always been one to say youth should be given time to get to 100% in the minors BEFORE they get a fulltime gig in the NHL, there are exception to any rule…Callahan seems like he is one…Staal may be another…and of course sometimes “kidsâ€? play two or three pro years in Europe, and they probably need less seasoning if any at all…like Prucha and Lundqvist…its just now there are those who called for heads of Rangers brass for NOT letting kids get their first pro season or two in the minors and rushing them to the NHL, that are calling for the same heads because Callahan isn’t in the NHL during his first year…the people are hypocritical…at least I have my beliefs and stick by them…I would imagine a lot of people, perhaps you included would have folded long ago under the pressure that children like you put on people with different opinions like people like me.

    99. and part of the reason you don’t see me agree is that you don’t want to…half my posts are in agreement with someone…maybe if its a set of line combos I will have a differing opinion on who is a 2nd liner or a 3rd liner…but other than that, I agree with many people…also…when everyone posts like they know what happens in meetings that may or may not take place inside the offices at MSG…I cant help but press them on how they get their info…since they are just guessing and act like bitter old men (women) or spoiled children who didn’t get desert when I bring up my difrence of opinion, I find it hard to discuss anything…if I disagree its because “I’m a Sather” or “I don’t know anything” but its funny, that they don’t “knowâ€? anything either…they are guessing…but I wonder how much they get wrong it wouldn’t shock me if they more wrong than myself…or if we all had the same amount of wrong ideas…but we wont really ever know now will we?

    100. Wild it’s waste of time trying to get you to grow up. Just take a look for yourself on how many people think you’re even close to being on the mark. You’re quick to give it, to insult, critizize, & be defensive among many other negative qualties, but especially not being able to take it. You’re a flip flopper always trying to prove your right.You do it for the attention sigmund.

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