Post-game musings

103

A disappointing end to the night, and I’m not even talking about the Rangers losing in overtime. More important, I never even laid eyes on Miss World. Is it possible she was avoiding me?

A few thoughts:

  • Adam Hall: you can’t stop him, you can only hope to contain him. As expected, the struggling right wing offered the standard “I’d trade it all for a win,” line, which I’m pretty sure is built into the most recent collective bargaining agreement. But in private, you know the two goals were something he desperately needed. I don’t know if Hall is a good enough player to go on any sort of scoring rampage. But one would think this will spur him on to be more effective than he’s been.
  • So much for karma: Again, we spend all this time talking about who’s playing on the fourth line and it turns out to be irrelevant. Total ice time for Colton Orr: 2:21. And the shame of it is Orr actually had his best shift of the season in the first period, only to disappear shortly thereafter. What’s the answer? In the new NHL, with penalties and stoppages galore, I don’t know if there is one.
  • I’m hardly breaking any news when I say the Rangers’ defense is a liability, but not in the way you’d expect. Instead, it’s the fact that when certain players join the rush, no one’s there to cover for them. I’m not sure you can get away with that against any teams in this league, but especially against a speedy team like Atlanta.

    Plenty of concerns, I know. We’ll get to them. In the meantime, the charming and talented — if poorly educated — Josh Thomson is scheduled to cover for me tomorrow while I tend to some duties on the golf beat. But I might check in later in the day.

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    103 Comments

    1. Hall blows up and gets *:14 of ice time. Unbelievable.

      This is just nuts you can not keep playing these guys this much it will come back to hurt you in the end.

      Shanahan 23:04
      Straka 24:06
      Nylander 25:57
      Jagr 27:17

      It seems Renney idea of coaching is play the Jagr line plus Shanny into the ground and let Henrik stand on his head.

    2. Why do the Rangers keep reporting these games as sellouts when they only are in the sense that the tickets have been sold? Report turnstile attendance. There were hundreds of empty seats tonight and THOUSANDS at the opening faceoff. So stupid.

    3. I can’t take anymore Ozo and Rachunek. They have to sit. Don’t understand why Hossa gets bumped up to the 2nd line while both Hall and Prucha don’t. Hall scored twice tonight yet Hossa gets the call. It never ends.

    4. Renney needs to go. He is a terrible coach. His thought process is just terrible.

      Can anyone explain why the PP never changes despite it being horrible?

      Im 100% sure we are the worst team with a 5-3 advantage btw.

    5. Sam what happened between Hyena and Hollweg? Why is Hollweg now getting around 3 minutes each game?

      can’t wait for it all to backfire on Hyena. Calling up Callahan is very clever, some naive fans might actually think that Hyena will play him.

    6. they said during the telecast that, I believe that it was 2-19 now on the 5-on-3 PP. that is awful, with 2 of the greatest scorers in history.

      and Jagr said that they don’t practice the 5-on-3. is Renney proud of that?

      good posts Tsalad. agree with all of it. I’m glad you posted the ice times tonight, because I’m accused of negativity if I point out Renney’s ice follies.

    7. sam-whats your take on the rangers in ot. seems to me like they need to stick to a defensive first game. take their offensive chances when they get them, but get the puck deep, and worry about letting up odd man breaks the other way with poor neutral zone and offensive zone efforts. most of us fans cringe at OT at this point… your thoughts?

    8. Doodie Machetto on

      and Jagr said that they don’t practice the 5-on-3. is Renney proud of that?

      As I understand it, most teams barely practice the PP at all, but I could be mistaken. And while the 5 on 3 is bad, the 5 on 4 was good tonight and with the exception of the last few games, has been good most of the season, so it’s not like the world is ending.

      Ozo and Rachunek don’t really deserve much of the blame, they weren’t the worst defensemen tonight, Ward was.

      The ice time numbers for Jagr & Co. were high, but are also inflated by the large amounts of PP time. Granted, they are still too high even without that, but that is what makes them so eye-bulgingly high. Besides, Straka is HOT right now. You have to play your hot players as much as possible, and I think that this might be the best week of his entire career.

    9. If anyone really thinks things are even remotely OK in Rangerland, all you have to do is look at Jagr’s string of quotes to the media after the last 2 games. He’s the one guy who doesn’t even try to put a positive spin on things: “We’re not a good team yet,” “We pissed this one away, just like the Giants game, ” “We thought it would be easy,its kind of sad. We just gave them 2 points.” “The way we played, we should be happy with the one point – we played awful, actually.”

      The best player in the world sees exactly what those of us on this board accused of “negativity” see. This team needs to make some serious changes, and many of them are ones that the coach has at his disposal. Sam said yesterday maybe its OK that the 3rd and 4th lines don’t score because they don’t need to think about scoring? The ice time distribution shows you exactly how Renney feels about that kind of a comment. He has no confidence whatsoever that his 3rd or 4th lines can get anything going at all. It is a given when they are on the ice that there will be no scoring. These guys are AHL caliber players who work really hard and that’s it. Of the groupo of Jason Ward, Adam Hall, Hossa, Hollweg, Betts and Orr, other teams would dress one and maybe two of these guys in their lineup, ever. We dress them all like we’re suddenly the Devils and have found greast role players to fill out the roster. Meanwhile, their job is to just go out there long enough for Jagr and Co. to catch their breath and not screw up royally. But you can’t win alot of hockey games that way.

      Buffalo has shown us how to do it. Distribute some scoring ability on each of 4 lines. Can’t have so many guys in the lineup who can’t put the puck in the ocean. And roll all four lines and skate the other team into the ground. When will Renney ever figure it out?

      We need – both us and the team – to stop praising mediocrity because its better than what we had for the previous seven years, which was nothing.

    10. “What’s the answer? In the new NHL, with penalties and stoppages galore, I don’t know if there is one.”

      C’mon Sam, this is a copout and you’re a better reporter than that. The answer lies with the man who controls the TOI and you know it. Ruff and others can get their 4th lines in for 8-10 minutes a game but Teflon Tom can’t figure it out. Then he makes those statements like “we’d like to get Colton in the game more” or “we need to see more of Pock” as if he has no control over who plays and for how much.

      If Renney is willing to burn out his team to stay in first place in November — where will they be in April? Please ask him that question…

      As for Hall, several have pointed out that Hall got most of his goals last year for Nashville on the PP. So, it’s not really a surprise that you give a guy some PP time and if he’s got some ability the goals will come. But when you play JJ for 2 minutes each PP it doesn’t leave a lot of time for anybody else.

    11. Why do they keep reporting the games as sellouts and not as poorly attended non-events? Do you actually need an answer to that?

    12. They don’t care if the fans are actually there. All that matters is the bottom line, which is the same whether the fans show up or not, minus concessions and memorabilia.

    13. SAM SAID: “So much for karma: Again, we spend all this time talking about who’s playing on the fourth line and it turns out to be irrelevant. Total ice time for Colton Orr: 2:21. And the shame of it is Orr actually had his best shift of the season in the first period, only to disappear shortly thereafter. What’s the answer? In the new NHL, with penalties and stoppages galore, I don’t know if there is one.”

      Buffalo seems to have no problem getting 4 lines out there with reasonably balanced ice time.

      The TV timeout bullcrap does not fly, only in SatheRenney Land does this exist to the extent that even the 3rd line suffers.

      Sam, are you saying these things because you believe them or because Renney has convinced you it is true?

    14. A couple of things.
      Dave —
      I agree with your assessment of the Rangers in OT, and it applies to regulation as well. The team has long made a point of having its defensemen join the rush, which is a good thing when the time is right. But there has to be a back-up — i.e. a forward high to make sure they entire team’s not caught deep. I asked Renney about this last night and he didn’t seem to think it was a problem. I don’t know if that’s the coach going out of his way to protect the D again — a recurring theme thus far — but I noticed the problem several times.

      Meanwhile, here’s the other part to consider: with Lundqvist in net, the Rangers shouldn’t be in the same rush to close the game out. He might be the best goalie in hockey in shootouts.

      Now Twin:
      My point about the fourth line not getting enough ice time was probably a little too vague. But you have to admit there is so much specialty teams play for the Rangers — and so much of it by the same people — that it immediately shortens the bench. And it just seems like the penalties last night were on top of one another so there was never an opportunity to get any flow. Throw in the fact that there Rangers were either tied, down a goal or clinging to a lead, and it doesn’t really lend itself to playing Colton Orr. Now, I’m a big believer that Ryan Hollweg HAS to play more. He might not score a goal all year, but he always makes a positive impact. But it might be more realistic for the Rangers to roll three lines and then mix and match Hollweg and Hall in, then to expect a fourth line to get a regular shift. Tell me if you disagree. I’m mostly thinking on the fly here,

    15. One other thing:

      Puckhead called me a moron the other day for my point about the third and fourth lines not needing to score. First of all, it’s Mr. Moron to you. Secondly, let me be clearer. The third and fourth line players are capable of scoring more goals, as we saw from Hall last night. I’m not saying any of these guys are All-Stars by any means.
      But my point is that if you’re getting such productivity from your front line, then the mandate toward the other players change. It’s no longer “go out there and get us a goal,” it’s “just keep the puck deep”

      I’m not trying to compare my experience playing to the NHL, but I’ve played on teams that has had exceptional first line players and i was on the second or third line. I played the game differently because I knew the team wasn’t relying on my line for the bulk of the offense. You cycle the puck. You keep a man high. Your definition of success isn’t a goal, but how much time you can spend in the opposing zone.

      Is this ideal? Probably not, especially if your first line slumps as it did a few weeks back in Pittsburgh. But I think that’s the reason the Rangers scoring is so poorly proportioned so far.

    16. SAM SAYS: “Puckhead called me a moron the other day for my point about the third and fourth lines not needing to score. First of all, it’s Mr. Moron to you. Secondly, let me be clearer. The third and fourth line players are capable of scoring more goals, as we saw from Hall last night. I’m not saying any of these guys are All-Stars by any means.
      But my point is that if you’re getting such productivity from your front line, then the mandate toward the other players change. It’s no longer “go out there and get us a goal,â€? it’s “just keep the puck deepâ€?”

      First off I did not call you a moron, I said that you wrote a moronic thing, big difference. Even very astute people can sometimes say moronic things (myself included).

      However, the point is not the fact that it might be Renney’s mandate to just have the 3rd line kill time, the fact is that Renney’s mandate is WRONG.

      Year in and year out the teams that go farthest in the post season are the ones that can throw out 4 lines, all of which can and do contribute more than just a deep cycle. All those Devils teams that won did so with 3 solid offensive lines and a 4th line to crash around into things. Buffalo can push you back at any time because all 4 of their lines can stand on their own.

      The Rangers are trying to run two lines for 50 minutes and a 3rd line for 10, this is pathetic in any era and especially so when speed and energy are the TOP TWO things you need in order to win.

      Regardless of TV timeouts and etcetera the cold reality is that 23 year olds have more energy than 38 year olds in minutes number 45 of an NHL game. This could not have been more obvious last night as the Thrashers just kept pouring it on and the Rangers tired and old players were useless to stop it.

    17. tsalad: I couldn’t agree more. When guys are logging more than 24 minutes of ice time and they’re not named Pronger, then there are problems. Renney drove those guys to the edge to get to overtime, then pushed them over once the period started. When it was a 3-1 and then 3-2, that’s when Shanny and Jagr should have taken a back seat to guys like Hall, Ward, Betts, Hossa and Hollweg –I won’t cry about Orr not getting much time quite yet.

      But about Hossa up to second line, if I’m not mistaken, Prucha WAS skating second for most of the game. I can remember one shift Hossa went out, but for some reason I want to say it was for Cullen. In any event, the reason for this probably had more to do with size (Hossa at 235 pounds and Prucha at 185 soaking wet) than anything else. Logic being, substitute Hossa for either Petr Puck or Cullen, then tell him to tatoo anything that goes in the corners, freeing up the puck for Shanny in the slot. That’s just a guess though.

      Also, disagree 100 percent about Rachunek. He’s looked like a tough and mobile blueliner lately. Kind of agree about Ozo and Roszi got burned at least twice last night. Tyutin is throwing good hits and looking much more solid, but he too was out of place at times…

      Peter: to say the aforementioned (including Orr)are nothing more than AHL lifers is a load of horse dung. Each of those guys has prooven their right to be in the show one way or another. Underutilized? Sometimes. Are they perfect? No. Do they need work? Yes. But do they belong toiling in the AHL. Hell no. In fact, I’d argue that this team would be a bit better if these guys played more. I agree, however, that there should be at least three rolling lines. Four would be ideal.

      Sam: I agree with your assessment as a player. I’ll add to your argument by saying the following: I’m on a very talented team now (not to compare this with the NHL) in which no one really knows their role and everyone is trying to pitch in on offense. The result? No defense, little offense and a winless record after 10 games.

      In sumation, I’ll play the role of optimist and say this team ain’t far off. The defense needs to buck up a bit more and show intensity in the late periods; Renney needs to equalize the playing time a bit better.

    18. The biggest problem the team has is that they have a 1st and 2nd line, but in reality they have two 4th lines, no real 3rd line. Think about it, Ward, Betts and Hossa would be a good 4th line, but certainly not real 3rd line.

      Why Buffalo can role 4 lines effectively? It’s simple, they’ve drafted well over the past 5 years coupled with the fact that their AHL team plays the exact same system as the NHL club. While the Rangers appear to have drafted better the past two seasons, those players are wither still in juniors or in the AHL at best. Is it really any wonder why the team plays the way it does?

    19. No, the scoring is poorly proportioned because you have four forwards (two of whom are sure-fire, first ballot hall of famers) having some of the best seasons of their careers, three who are in some of the worst slumps of their careers (although with two goals last night, Hall might be breaking out of his), and 5 others who have so little offensive talent that Blair Bettsky is the best offensive player among them.

      I’m a firm believer in playing your hot players. The Jagr line is hot, especially Straka. But this is getting pretty ridiculous.

      Shanny is starting to cool off and his linemates are even colder. Prucha needs to break out of his slump, now. Hall needs to play more games like he did last night and be given the ice time to do so. I don’t personally believe that the third and fourth lines have to pose some kind of consistent threat, but they have to be able to chip in occassionally. How many goals do the bottom six players have this year? 10 (11 if you count Dawes). As good as Jags and Co have been (best line in the NHL), their icetime needs to be cut down to give the fourth line some icetime and to give the second line some different looks, especially Prucha.

      As for the 5 on 3, I’d like to see Hall out there instead of Prucha, if only for the time being. Prucha’s shooting hasn’t been good, and with two cannons like Jagr’s and Shanny’s, what you need is a big guy in front to screen the goaltender. Straka and Nylander are more than capable of feeding pucks back to the point or threading cross ice passes, especially Nylander.

    20. Sam

      when you lose a 2 goal lead it usually is a goaltending breakdown. Lundy played a klinker last night. The only thing is, Renney is being out coached most nights versus the vet coaches in the league. In my opinion of course. A side note, the Rangers did not react well when the heavy hitting picked up. That is a playoff problem.

    21. I think you all make excellent points, and I’m not disagreeing with you. But let’s talk about the bigger issue here: the Rangers are both blessed and cursed by having one of the best players in the world on their roster. The blessing is obvious. Jagr can take a game over on his own. The curse is that there is this incessant need to get him on the ice. If he wasn’t that good, then you don’t really miss him. But even I, watching from the press box, find myself thinking, “They need to go back with Jagr here.” It’s probably a very flawed way to manage a game, especially given the fact that you risk over-using him. But when you’re down a goal or tied or whatever, the easiest solution is to just go back with a player, and a line, that can fill the net. Judging by what you all are saying, what probably needs to happen, and hasn’t happened so far, is Renney needs to stop going with that line just because he can every time. It might even cost the Rangers a game or two. But if you want to break this pattern and you want to get all four lines ice time, that’s probably the way to go.

    22. “The biggest problem the team has is that they have a 1st and 2nd line, but in reality they have two 4th lines, no real 3rd line.”

      Actually, their big problem is that they don’t have a 2nd line.

      Cullen isn’t good enough for the 2nd line. All of his mistakes I’ve seen him make this season were because he was trying too hard to play offensively. On the third line, with the expectations lower, he would do much better both offensively and defensively.

      Prucha is good enough but he has been TERRIBLE this season with the exception of a two week span at the end of October-beginning of November.

      Shanny has been good, but one player does not a line make. Worst of all, he is starting to cool off.

      Cullen, Hall, and Hollweg would make a pretty decent third line, and Betts-Ward-Hossa could stick together as a fourth. I don’t like Hollweg as a third liner, but I would want him in the lineup, and I wouldn’t want to break up Betts-Ward-Hossa, so it’s the only place to put him. So if they had a legitimate number 2 center, Prucha played like he is supposed to, and Shannahan doesn’t go cold, they would be set.

    23. Sam:

      Something to consider — Buffalo gets mucho power plays and who goes out? Whichever line is up. Gaustad (their Orr) even gets power play time. In a game where speed is now the most important differentiator, a fresh set of legs is almost as important as skills on the power play. Now, does this mean I expect to see Orr get as much PP time as JJ? No, but what would be wrong with giving the first unit 1 minute and then spreading the 2nd minute amongst some other combos. Or when the PP is over, send out your fourth line to work hard and pressure the other team’s defense. It just seems to me that Renney doesn’t even try to play his 4th line and then falls back on the tired excuse of power plays stoppages and TV timeouts.

      BTW, I actually think there are less stoppages now than there were pre-strike, with the tag-up offsides and no red-line and with the punishment for icing being more severe. However, I don’t have numbers to back that up, just a feeling based on my observations.

    24. “The curse is that there is this incessant need to get him on the ice. ”

      When you’re down a goal and its late in a game or a period, double shift him like crazy. When you have a lead over most of the game, why is he playing so much? He had 27 mins of ice time last night. The Rangers led for most of the game, a large portion of that lead was by 2 goals. You don’t need him to play as much in those situations.

      John M: I agree with you on Lundy. He was sharp in the beginning but looked very, very tired in the third. When he let in the first Holik goal, I thought to myself that he should have been pulled because he looked totally out of it, both mentally and physically. Of course, I kno that’s the wrong decision there, but the moment that thought came into my head, I knew they were gonna lose.

    25. The Rangers led for about 23 minutes last night, 9 of which were by 2 goals. They trailed for 8.

    26. Same wrote: “Throw in the fact that there Rangers were either tied, down a goal or clinging to a lead, and it doesn’t really lend itself to playing Colton Orr. Now, I’m a big believer that Ryan Hollweg HAS to play more. He might not score a goal all year, but he always makes a positive impact. But it might be more realistic for the Rangers to roll three lines and then mix and match Hollweg and Hall in, then to expect a fourth line to get a regular shift.”

      I’m ok with this approach. If the game situation (or your coaching philosophy) doesn’t call for Orr to take a regular shift, then double shift a center with Hollweg and Hall every once in a while. Given the benefit of playing with a Nylander or Straka or even Cullen they might surprise some people.

      You hit the nail on the head in your subsequent post. Renney overplays JJ and co. because he can. It’s the safe call. If the Rangers lose, nobody (except a few posters on-line) is going to question that he “went with his best.” It would take (ahem) guts to explain why JJ was not on the ice as much as possible when they lose. But you know what, maybe they don’t lose. Maybe everybody is fresher so that when he puts JJ & co. on the ice with a minute left in the game needing the tying or winning goal, they can get it done.

      Ruff doesn’t overplay Briere or Drury or Afinogenov but they seem to get it done in clutch time don’t they?

    27. I wish the Sabres comparisons would stop. They’re better. They have better, younger, faster players. Our top two forwards are better than theirs, 3 and 4 are about even, but they cream us 5-12. However, all of theirs have the upside of being young (which is also a downside because they won’t be able to keep both Briere and Drury next season due to the cap). Buffalo has two VERY dangerous lines. We don’t. The fact that they are more successful isn’t a coaching issue. Their team is just built better. End of story.

    28. Doodie:

      I agree with you to a point. It is a Sather issue so let’s bash him for the team that he’s put together that as you say isn’t good enough to compete with the top team in their conference. But, if they’re not good enough to compete with the team they have this year, then why aren’t they acting that way and developing more young players so that they can compete next year or the year after?

      To me this is absolutely a coaching issue. Their young guys didn’t get good by sitting out games. They played. Guys like Pominville, Paille, Gaustad, Mair, Roy, Stafford, Ryan et al are not superstars. But they play alongside the Briere’s, Drury’s, Vanek’s and Afinogenov’s and they help win games. You don’t see Ruff putting out a line of Drury, Afinogenov and Briere every other shift for 25 minutes+ a game.

    29. several things:

      line of Prucha-Cullen-Shanahan just doesn’t work, Renney fool will never realize that. Need a playmaker like Immonen for Prucha and Shanahan to score.

      Orr is useless, why is he in the lineup over Pock or Dawes?

      3rd and 4th lines need to be able and want to score, under Renney they been brainwashed into thinking that it doesn’t matter if they do not score and they never crash the net.

      Why isn’t Prucha used on PK?

      This team with Renney just stinks in OT, they are pathetic. Hopefully the losing continues.

      Why does nobody ever gets injured on this team?

    30. also why bother with those player interviews? they all say the same things like zombies and never display any personality. How many times have I heard the line “the difference between NHL and whatever league is everybody is bigger and faster” I want to puke each time I hear these brainwashed statements.

    31. doodie

      twin said what I would have said. If the Sabres can do it why can’t the Rangers? They could if they wanted but they won’t bench anyone ever for doing the same things that kids get benched for. If the Rangers aren’t good enough then try to make the team better. Better for next year and the long run as well. Young players can get better and old players just get older.

      As for the ice time it would not be a big deal if it wasn’t happening all the time. These guys aren’t D men who skate less and can play 25 mins these guys have a lot more work and skating to do and Shanny is 37. Renney can’t keep this pace up as these four will get hurt and/or worn out long before they should.

      The hot hand well Renney should have rode Hall last nigh and cut back say 3 mins on Straka’s ice time because Hall had 2 goals. Hall had the hot hand and the confidence to maybe get another as it was worth a try. If any other forward had a 2 goal night and got 8 mins of ice time people would be upset and I’m upset. Doesn’t matter if he had 2 on the PP he still should have gotten more than 8:14.

      Rtdchi

      Rachunek was on the ice for 3 goals against last night and Ozo for 2. Maybe its time they sit as there are two guys in the press box.

    32. Oh and while A Ward had a bad bad game he hasn’t been having them again and again. Ozo Rachunek and Malik have and imo are just not getting it done. If they were getting the job done I could care less if they were 19 or 40 just get it done and these guys have not on anywhere near a consistent basis. Accountability should exist but it doesn’t and that is a joke when your trying to win.

    33. Doodie Machetto on

      Twin and TSalad: “But, if they’re not good enough to compete with the team they have this year, then why aren’t they acting that way and developing more young players so that they can compete next year or the year after?”

      “twin said what I would have said. If the Sabres can do it why can’t the Rangers?”

      Because the Sabres are loaded with Top Tier prospects and the Rangers aren’t. The Rangers have to compete while they have Jagr and Shanahan. No one, two or five players in the whole organization will make up for the loss of them in terms of production and veteran leadership. None of the kids on the farm, in any type of combination, are good enough to lead us to a cup. We have the best line in the NHL. You don’t just give up on the season when you have that.

      Twin: “Guys like Pominville, Paille, Gaustad, Mair, Roy, Stafford, Ryan et al are not superstars. But they play alongside the Briere’s, Drury’s, Vanek’s and Afinogenov’s and they help win games. You don’t see Ruff putting out a line of Drury, Afinogenov and Briere every other shift for 25 minutes+ a game”

      Those players don’t really get all that much time next to the Drury’s, Afinoganov’s, etc. since the 4 of those make 4 of 6 of the Sabres’ top lines. The two who do: Pominville and Hecht(before he was injured). Pominville was developed largely at the AHL level. Hecht isn’t young and he is putting up his career averages.

      tsalad: “Young players can get better and old players just get older.” you always say that, but it’s just patently untrue. A few examples of 30+ players who have been better the past couple of seasons than those before them: Brendan Shanahan, Jaromir Jagr, Martin Straka, Michael Nylander (all four of which are having some of the best seasons of their careers) Rod Brind’Amour, Teemu Selanne, Alexei Yashin, Petr Sykora, Darcy Tucker, Slava Kozlov, Chris Pronger, Chris Chelios, Scott Niedermayer. I can’t even begin to list the number of prospects and high draft picks that never pan out to anything good, or players that have strong rookie years only to hit the perverbial “sophomore slump (When is Prucha officially in a sophomore slump?).”

      The problem, as I stated above, is that the Rangers don’t have a second line. The reason why Ruff doens’t have to stick it out with one line for most of the game is because his top 2 lines are BOTH dangerous scoring threats. I’m not saying that I agree with Renney’s ice time distribution, but it’s hard to score when you’re just undermanned.

    34. Doodie Machetto on

      Rachunek was on the ice for 3 goals against last night and Ozo for 2

      Yeah but they were on for 2 Ranger goals as well.

    35. Stop whining Orr for Dawes – no way, Pock maybe but not Dawes. When Dawes was playing every time he would get the the opposing checkers knocked him off of it. And you are going to be the first to cry when the opposing enforcers will all over Rangers. IMO our 3rd and 4th are not bad at all. It is about time we got normal checking line they will start scoring you will see. As far as compairing Rangers to Buffalo we are not even close to them and should play a different style of game. Do not forget Rangers are by far not the fastest guys out there. And yes I think they need to get rid of Ozo since he is offensive D and old too. Stop jumoing over Malik and Rozy these guys deffinitely improve since the begining of the season.

    36. Oh and Rangers will never going to rebuild, I am sorry to be the one to tell you that but New York is just not the city for that… They need stars and pretend that they are competing for the Cup every year. Big corporations are the main season ticket holders – they don’t care about the team all they need id entertainment and see big star play like JJ, Bure nad Gretzki. It will just happen on Broadway.

    37. doodie for the last time I’m not talking about and never have talked about sitting Shanny,Straka,Nylander and Jagr, I’m talking about sitting some of the other guys who are not getting it done.

      “ard to score when you’re just undermanned.” That is your quote. How about Hall getting more than 8:14 or giving 1 kid a chance in the lineup to see if some pffense can be produced. Renney has options and he refuses to use them. Its bad coaching as Hall’s ice time,the hot hand as you said got 8:14. rouble.

      For the season ozo is a -5 and rachunek a -9. Ozo has 3 assists in 17 games. But you keep defending them as it shows me you have zero interest in seeing this club do better.

    38. For the last time read this because it is a fact.

      Old players get older. Could that be any clearer to you? Young player CAN get better. Can being the key word. Got it. Take the whole quote not the part you can use to try to make your lame argument.

      We will never know if the young guys will get better because they never play.

    39. hockeymanrangers on

      My question is what did we do differently in the 1st period and most of the second that turned this game around, we had the game under control?? What happend?? Did the boys just let up?? Like Jagr was saying or did Atlanta step up thier game. OR was this Atlanta’s plan all along to play defensivly for the first part and keep them in it, and then turn up with their offence. I kinda of think Renny is being out coached at times. To have this game under control for the 1st period and half and then to loose it sounds like coaching???

    40. oh and Ozo and Rachunek still came out for being on the ice for one more goal against than they were on for goals scored. A minus 1. Yea that’s great and we lose.

    41. Maybe Prucha wouldn’t be in a sophomore slump if

      A Renney gave him more than the 10 mins he got last night.
      B He played on the PP a bit more
      c Had a center who actually passed him the puck.

      Those all require the coach to make moves that may eat into the 27 mins Jagr plays everynight, so why bother when we can still lose by a goal. A goal perhaps Prucha could score if some of those moves were made.

    42. hockeymanrangers on

      tsalad
      So your putting all this on if Prucha could have more playing time and some to pass him the puck??? I think there is much more going here. Anyone else????

    43. Regarding the 3rd and 4th lines and the twisted logic there.

      The theory of having a 3rd and 4th line be a “checking” line and not expect them to score works well if you’re playing your third and fourth lines against the other teams top two lines. At that point shadowing, tying up (Devils hockey) works well, and you get your own first liners a rest and in theory not going against the other teams’ top line. In that perfect world, it is great if your third and fourth liners don’t score because they are doing their job if they stop the other teams’ stars.

      But, today’s NHL doesn’t match up lines like that, and the roll of a 4th line as a bunch of fighters doesn’t work either. If you’re just sending guys out against another team’s 3rd and 4th and both sides are just hoping to tie the other up, its boring (read Devil hockey again) and barely worth having the lines.

    44. hockeymanrangers

      That is overly simplistic. Of course I’m not doing that. Look at the whole season and I feel maybe Prucha would be doing better if given more chances and a better center. Its not last night its Prucha and the way he has been used and is playing this season.

    45. Prucha is averaging less icetime a game than Betts.

      Id Renney wants offense and Prucha can score than that should imo change.

    46. Doodie:

      Buffalo’s prospects are ranked #21 by Hockey’s Future while the NYR’s are ranked #11.

      Loaded with top prospects? I don’t think so. Coached by a guy who maximizes the assets on his roster as compared to a guy totally riding his 30+ year old superstars and a good goalie? More like it.

      But this argument is starting to remind me of ones that were played out on other boards last season and we know how that turned out. I guess we’ll just have to wait until the end of the season to see how far Teflon Tom’s personnel decisions carry them.

    47. Jagr, Shanny, Straka nd Nylander won’t make it to the end of the season all averaging over 21 mins a game. Everygame.

    48. Twin- um, Prospects means “not in the NHL”

      Think about your statement. If Buffalo doesn’t have as many “prospects” in their system, and we do, that would mean we have more prospects NOT in the NHL and they have more PLAYING in the NHL. I understand that Buffalo has drafted better and

    49. “Because the Sabres are loaded with Top Tier prospects and the Rangers aren’t.”

      huh? outside of Vanek they don’t really have top tier prospects, while we have Montoya and Staal who are considered top tier.

    50. Doodie Machetto on

      Colorado Mark hits it on the head. What I should have said was Buffalo HAD top tier prospects, all of whom are playing at an elite level in the NHL, whereas the Rangers top prospects are years away from that point. Buffalo will be good this year, and a little less so next year, and then a little less so after that, until they aren’t very good (the depreciation is caused by not having good prospects in the system and losing their top-tier players from salary cap restraints).

    51. Reading the above discussion makes it obvious that there are 2 factions. Those who critically analyze the Rangers while wanting them to succeed long-term, and those who are apologists for Ranger mgmt.’s the-future-is-now attitude.

      When the first faction says there is something wrong with the apple, the second faction responds that the Rangers oranges are fine.

      Case in point…when it is pointed out that Buffalo has a lower rating from the future prospect websites than the Rangers, the oranges immediately respond that it is because the Buffalo prospects are already in the NHL. But, what the second faction won’t say is WHY ARE THEY IN THE NHL? Because the coach and GM in Buffalo aren’t afraid to play young guys, and the coach and GM in NY are, THAT’S WHY !

      And the minute that the apples point that out, 4 clueless guys come out of the woodwork and say “you want to replace Jagr and Shanny with kids” which is a total lie, and another attempt to blur the legitimate point made, and change the subject to oranges instead of apples.

    52. “you want to replace Jagr and Shanny with kids�

      I wouldn’t mind, because the way we are going we’ll be right back in the loop that gave us 7 straight seasons of no playoffs.

      right now we are kind of similar to 96-97 Rangers, soon we’ll package Prucha, Montoya and 1st rounder for another “can’t miss” top prospect like Brendl. Soon Dawes, Immonen, Pock, etc will disappear to Europe just like Dube and Goneau. Shanahan will retire like Gretzky, etc.

      It is actually funny looking back at that season we played more young guys and rookies than we do now and we now have at least 5 times more prospects than back then.

      I miss times when players used to get injured, there is mystery and excitement in it because you don’t know how the team will play and who will step up and what rookie gets to show what he’s got. But under Renney they are playing safe, no emotions, no crashing the net, so nobody gets hurt and I guess the opposition is getting soft as well.

    53. BTW, next Summer say goodbye to Olver, Reese, Roche as well as most 2005 draftees will go right back in the draft, because they know they have no chance with this organization.

      And damn, was our 2006 draft bad? It makes me want to puke drafted a bunch of soft garbage. pathetic.

    54. vinny pooh – Goneau’s not in Europe. In fact, he’s right here in the good ol’ US of A, hammering assists for the Fort Wayne Komets of the UHL(he’s got 10 on the season). We could probably sign him to a contract…Seriously, you’re crazy if you think either Dube or Goneau ever had a chance to make the NHL -if they did, they’d be here by now. You don’t think Dube is playing in Bern because he likes the coffee there, do you?

      I’ll take your side on one thing: it will be a bit of a shame if Olver and Roche don’t get a chance. But from what has been said about Dupont, Cliche, Pyatt and a few others toiling in Juniors, I would cry over them hitting the FA market about as much as I did when Dube and Goneau beat feet.

      And to play devil’s advocate, have you seen Montoya play? He’s only a few notches away from Jessiman status in my book.

      Honestly, I’d say give it to training camp next year, which will officially mark three years since “the great rebuild” of 2004, and more than enough time to retool a system. If the rooks are still languishing on the bench, then I’ll personally light the torch to call for a change in management.

    55. “You don’t think Dube is playing in Bern because he likes the coffee there, do you?”

      actually he does, I think he lived there with his dad or something and loved it, and come on Switzerland is way better place to live in than USA and they pay there pretty good.

      Goneau did play in Europe for few seasons. And I don’t know if they would pan out, but I don’t think we gave them a proper chance and did not develop them properly and weren’t too patient.

      “And to play devil’s advocate, have you seen Montoya play? He’s only a few notches away from Jessiman status in my book.”

      And I was against drafting either of them.

    56. Vinny – hoping for injuries is not the answer. Would you be happy if JJ and Shanny (or Henrik) get hurt? I know i was not happy when JJ hurt his shoulder during the playoffs.
      I would agree that when players are hurt (especially the lower 1/2 of the team other healthy, younger players should be put in (a win win in my book to let someone heal and get PT for the new player)

      I agree with the Jessiman comment. Re Montoya as I’ve mentioned in the past hopefully he’ll be traded for a good young forward with the right attitude to play good 2 way hockey.

    57. “I know i was not happy when JJ hurt his shoulder during the playoffs.”

      I was, that was the funniest and most memorable moment of the playoffs. And it exposed this team and its coach for how truly pathetic they are.

    58. Dude, no offense, but you seriously need to check yourself if you’re saying you think any injury in the NHL, much less to a player on the team you root for, is “the funniest and most memorable moment” of any series.

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