Uneasy times

137

Jaromir Jagr is currently skating on the MSG Training Center ice in just a T-shirt and shorts. If you think of the Rangers’ leading scorer as one of the game’s most respected players, I ask that you consider how ridiculous he looks right about now.

Anyway, readers, big doings in Greenburgh today, what with Darius Kasparaitis getting the call back from Hartford and now, Nigel Dawes being shipped the other way. As I said before, Dawes had been on the ice for practice, but at the end, Tom Renney pulled the rookie aside and the two could be seen talking for several minutes along the boards.

I asked Renney about the conversation later, and the coach said pretty much what you’d expect, that a skill player like Dawes can’t be buried on a third or fourth line where he’d get only limited minutes every night; and for now, he’s better served seeing quality time in Hartford. When Dawes will be called back up remains to be seen. Renney said he didn’t envision the rookie copying Petr Prucha a year ago, when Prucha played only a couple of games in the AHL before returning with a flourish to the Rangers. But it did sound like we’ll be seeing Dawes again sometime this season, and probably soon.

As for Kasparaitis, the situation is a little murkier. With his conditioning assignment up in Hartford, the Rangers only other option was to waive him, and it sounds like they still want to give him a better look. Again, though, what exactly that means is unclear.

“I want to play him,” Renney said. “But I wanted to play Nigel.”

There appear to be the same questions about Kasparaitis as there were before, namely that his surgeries have taken a toll on him both physically and mentally, and he hasn’t been the proactive player that he’s been. Whether Kasparaitis sees it that way is another story.

“I know that I went there to get some conditioning and I feel very good good and very confident,� Kasparaitis said. “I have a lot of energy and a lot of enthusiasm. Now I have to have a chance to play.�

When I asked Kasparaitis if he feels like he made progress in Hartford, he bristled a bit, saying that he feels like “a broken record.” Furthermore, he said his goal is to play for the Rangers, but if he can’t play here, he wants to play somewhere in the NHL.

“If I can’t do that here, I want to play in the NHL,” he said. “I’ve been doing that for 14 years and that’s what I want to do. I want to retire as a NHL hockey player, not somewhere in the minors.”

Interesting stuff, and here’s the kicker: remember that Kasparaitis’ lone encouraging game this year might have been the win over the Devils last month. Now the Rangers face the same opponent tomorrow, and Renney said the defenseman’s performance in that game was a consideration in having him play tomorrow.

Then again, Kasparaitis was skating with the forgotten Thomas Pock today. And you know that’s never a good sign…

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137 Comments

  1. kasper can leave then. From the looks of it, he has little to offer any NHL team anymore. Get a pick or two for him.

    And Sam, VIA jagr- If you don’t have pics, you don’t have nothing! Sounds funny…Was this after practice…before? Something to lighten up the team?

  2. What more do the Rangers need to see and hear with Kasparaitis?He has nearly a $16,000 per day cap number

  3. Jagr just in a t-shirt and in shorts skating around the rink at practice….

    That is weird as a koala is playing hockey in Australia :)

    Sam, call me back from Florida, we haven´t something like this down here….!!!

  4. Too bad Jags doesn’t have the mullet he used to have. That would make it all the funnier.

    I hope Kasper gets it together. A good version of him would be a great help.

  5. What IS going on with Pock? They can’t send him down because of waivers, so what the heck are they going to do with him??

  6. Sam I am the one with “uneasy times” in Florida…

    But nobody cares about me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  7. Jen —

    The Rangers aren’t recalling anyone else from Hartford so that means they’ll still be carrying 22 players. What that means is Pock will likely be the Rangers’ eighth defenseman AND their 13th forward since he can play both. It doesn’t mean he’s going to play necessarily, but it makes him more valuable nonetheless.

  8. You probably shouldn´t take them as seriously as they think they should be from the readers or voters ?? ;) LOL !!!

  9. I’m no expert. Just a long time die hard Ranger-fan. I think they should play Kaspar & Pock, while benching Ozo & Rachunek.

    Ozo is still resulting in goals against the Rangers and I would love to see him get lost.

    Pock is going to be a great player. It’s a shame that he’s not playing.

  10. Well, they have probably the same kind of abilities like an actor to make a speech or write an article but inside they feel almost different and acting different.

    Hihi, So I am only able to find similarities !:)

    Sam, No offense we are just joking around…!!!

  11. Doodie Machetto on

    To those of you who think Pock is going to be some kind of superstar, get real. He will be a solid 2nd line defenseman, never a premier guy. The only blue chip defensive prospect the Rangers have is Staal, who is still at least a year away.

    Pock deserves to play, but it’s not like they are benching Bobby Orr everynight.

  12. Renney had no clue about Prucha last year. Prucha was only played because of injuries. Renney doing it again,

    What club lets kids make the team then sits them for 4 weeks at a time before sending them down. Only one club the Rangers.

  13. exactly, Tsalad. Prucha only got his chance because of the injury to Rucinsky. otherwise, if Rivet didn’t hit Rucinsky, Prucha would still be sitting in Hartford. But the Renney-Sather sycophants on this board refuse to take off the blinders.

  14. Doodie Machetto on

    I don’t think anyone is a sycophant of Renney or Sather. Just realistic about the quality of prospects on the team.

  15. Doodie Machetto on

    It is abut when they have chances to play. Prucha was great when Ruckinsky got hurt. Dawes didn’t really impress me. Pock looked like he could mature into what I have described. That’s how you know.

  16. Why play Dawes when we have Marcel Hossa with five goals, one assist, and an astounding -19 in his last 69 games (zero points, -7 in 16 games this season). Or Adam Hall, with just nine goals, ten assists, and -4 in his last 68 games (two goals, three assists, -4 in 17 games for the high-scoring Rangers.

    Yea who needs Dawes. Those guys are doing things Dawes could never do.

  17. as I have pointed out before, the Sharks and other teams are full of good young players who NEVER dominated anything at the AHL level. They DEVELOPED at the NHL level. the Rangers were on a miss-the-playoffs-7-straight-years, Leetch and Kovalev vet purge, supposed-promised-youth-rebuild, and then just re-loaded with more vets all over again.

  18. Pock is basically a younger version of Bozo, hes got a lot of offensive upside, but will burn you on his own end every now and again.

    anyone notice the key word there?

    YOUNGER.

    Renney has done a terrible job in managing the personell and lineups. Im officially calling shenanigans on him.

  19. SAM: I guess you didn’t feel like asking Renney the hard questions.

    1. Why is Hossa, who hasn’t had an assist since last Feb. 10th and is -25 during that period, still with this team, let alone on ice EVERY night.

    2. Why are Malik and Ozo still dressing instead of Pock? Particularly when Ozo’s been on for apx. 75% of Rangers goals against since his return, while providing only one assist. And Malik, well, that’s obvious.

    3. Why didn’t you roll 4 lines vs. Washington on the second night of back-to-backers instead of exhausting your stars and exposing them to injury. Especially since 4 lines brought so much energy in Atlanta.

  20. Chardkerm, here’s another question.

    Do Renney-Sather & Maloney consider the Ranger youth not ready or not good enough for the NHL?

    And, if the Ranger youth are not good enough, then why shouldn’t the fans demand the immediate removal of Sather, Renney, Maloney, and their entire staff because THEY are the guys who picked these kids. Or, if they are not ready, then whose fault is that? Either they were wrong in their assessment of the kids, or they were right but did a poor job of developing them.

  21. screw this pathetic organization. Good thing Medieval 2 Total War is out, now I can maybe forget about this retarded team for a while.

  22. Jonathan Probber on

    With the benefit of 40 years of Rangers involvement, i can truthfully say that the organization hase seemed “pathetic” to than more than one generation of fans. Unluckily, I can’t divert myself with Medieval 2 Total War, since I don’t know what that is.

    Sounds like a circa 1971 Rangers-Flyers game though, so I’ll do the research.

  23. The Rangers are the most pathetic organization and will get exactly what they deserve – an eighth seed at the very best, four and out if that even happens. The pathetic defense that showed its true colors in the second half of last year? WORSE. The team actually would be much better off with Tom Poti and Jason Strudwick in the lineup. At least Strudwick’s shortcomings were purely physical, never stupid mental mistakes and he never cost us a game. He made up for those physical limitations with presence on and off the ice. Now we have Kaspar who can no longer play the game, Malik who never could, and Ozolinsh, who unless he has Beukeboom for a partner makes so many costly mistakes we might as well hire him for the old Crazy Eddie commercials (he’s GIVING IT ALL AWAY). Rachuneck is a really nice replacement – for Pock in Hartford, perhaps.

    Sather is such a dope. he picks up everyone’s trash and expects to make it into gold. That never happens. From Rico Fata to Marcel “Marceau” Hossa even to Jarko Immonen, there is a very good reason other teams gave up on these guys. Not to mention guys like Ward, who the Rangers keep around because somehow they can’t find anyone else who works that hard. Though all the other teams seem to be able to.

    Go ahead, make fun of me for longing for Jason Strudwick. Instead, yoiu should mock the guys whose poor decision making has made that happen. Think our team isnt built to “win now” and that’s it? They are so built to win now that Tom Renney can’t even allow himself to be patient and allot ice time correctly in the 3rd of a 3 in 4 game because the team has fallen behind. And he then goes about playing four 33 + year-old guys 25-minutes apiece in a completely futile effort to Washington. Instead of just sticking with a plan, rolling four lines, and hoping tyhat perhaps some of the younger and fresher legs (heaven forbid we play Dawes) might actually step up and learn how to win a lousy game.

    Whew! That felt great.

  24. Well, Peter, I think you are a victim of reading to many bloggers comments and actually, the most pathetic organization
    are the knicks. Ironically they both have the same owner.

  25. Vinny…good idea…go away…causer you along with MANY other people think they know it all…you think that by putting a young palyer in the lineup they will suddenly be better…well guess what…there were times last season when Prucha got 8 or 9 min of ice time, and he made things happen, or at least looked like he was part of the game…Dawes has had a few shitfs were he looked part of the game, its not ALL about who your linemates are…you need to make things happen for yourself…at elast skate hard to make the coach try to find you an extra shift or two…Dawes wasnt doing that, You can tell that he will develope more, and maybe being sent back to hartford he can get going, and when there is an injury up front they will recall him…Same goes for POCK, if ther is an injury he will get some games, and if he dose what he needs to he will make it hard for Renney to pt him on the bench again. There will also be traded if it lookes like those younger guys are ready..MAYBE not till the trade deadline when teams with lots of injuries are willing to overpay for the playoffs…but this team is rebuilding…i am willing to wait and see what the Ragners can get for guys later in the year, maybe they can get a young player, or picks or sometihng. Lets just give theis team a chance before we right it off less than 20 games into the season…

  26. Hey Jonathan Probber, I am praticaly there with you as a ranger fan. I been a fan since 1968, I was 10 years old. I disagree with you about the rangers have been pathetic for generation of fans. To me, ever since Dolan bought the rangers and hired sather who in turn hired maloney and than renney is where the Rangers have become pathetic. I almost can say since i am a big fan of the three stooges that this is what we have, the three stooges.

  27. Peter : Prob is the rangers DID role 4 lines once they got away form the penalty box, and untill the very end of the game when they needed goals…and EVERY team INCLUDING Buffalo uses thir top scorers when the NEED goals…they dont use their 4th line hardley at all when they are loseing late…so dont knock the Rnagers for doing their best to win in Washington…I tihnk that people fail to realise how many 2nd years palyers the rangers have, and how young the team is…yes there are some older palyers…but its not like there is a kid ready to replace them…and as those older players contracts expire and the young players are ready, you will see them step in…Maybe in the next two years Prucha is on the top line and Dawes on the 2nd…we dont know…we dont even know why Renney dose the things he dose…so lets not pretend we KNOW what hes thinking and why he dresses who he dose…

  28. Chadkerm —

    Fair questions, all of them, but you’re forgetting that these questions are asked in some form or another every day. Maybe you don’t like the responses, and I’m not satisfied with all of them, either, but I still think part of that has to do with a team not being completely forthcoming because they’re looking around at other possibilities on the market. That, at least, is my impression of what’s going on with Malik, and why he keeps playing.

    As for Ozo, Renney was asked about it today and the coach agreed that the defenseman made some mistakes in each of the last few games, but that Ozolinsh is also one of the few defensemen who can move the puck. For a team that’s trying to have more mobility, the trade-off is a player who occasionally gets caught out of position.

    Finally, why does Hossa play and not Dawes? Mostly because Hossa is a fourth-line player who can get away with playing three or four minutes a game. Meanwhile. if Dawes was in that position, he’d morph into a completely different player, and the Rangers have higher hopes for him. Plus, for all of Hossa’s shortcomings — which he has — he is still a big body who can kill penalties. Dawes right now can’t.

    Let’s remember that a fourth line player in the new NHL is the equivalent of a long snapper, not necessarily the best option, but a guy who fills a specific niche. Can the Rangers find better players to fill that niche? Probably. But what you don’t want to do is waste a valuable prospect on that role when someone less important can do it.

    I’m not saying you should agree with this rationale. I’m just saying this is the impression I get from the Rangers,

  29. Hey wildcard,
    I wouldn’t get upset over vinny, vinny is, well vinny. Who is pretty much very belligerent and negative person. I already have told vinny to go route for the devils.

  30. Oh, one last thing. You’re probably going to ask why Pock can’t be that more mobile defenseman. Another good question, and one I’ve asked often. I wish I had a better answer for you on that, but I don’t. All I hear from Renney is that he needs more experience, but the coach himself conceded there’s only one way for Pock to get that experience.

    If you want to criticize, you can say the Rangers are too focused on the two points right in front of them as opposed to the long view of the entire season.

  31. Everybody wants pock to play but the problem is we have to many defensemen which are being paid alot of money and are past there prime and not that good. If I was a gm I wouldn’t want them. I guess what I am trying to say is they are hard to get rid off and even if you place them on waivers I really doubt that any team will pick them up especially Ozolish and Malik.

  32. Doodie Machetto on

    A team would definitely pick up Ozo off of waivers, no question about it (Philly is a good example). Not Malik though, we’re stuck with him.

  33. Sam, did you notice that Dubi on the Blueshirt Bulletin said, “Sam Weinman, the popular Ranger blogger, writes about the first few weeks of his assignment to the Rangers’ beat.”

    Now you are the POPULAR BLOGGER !

    Take a bow. you earned it.

  34. See, I disagree with the notion that Dawes didn’t do enough to get more PT. Dawes saw almost no ice. He got no PP opportunities. He got nothing, except in that time he was buried, one more goal than Marcel Hossa has scored in a year. Prucha got to play last year because Rucinsky was hurt, end of story. Dawes doesnt get to play because our coach has Cullen centering the second line instead of third (just like Rucchin last year) and so that leaves Dawes SOL. And meanwhile, you guys are buying the party line about young guys having to earn ice time. But in the meantime, dreck like Malik and Ozolinsh make mistake after mistake and keep getting put right back out there without missing a beat. You guys really think Pock was worse than Ozo or Rachuinek or Malik? Come on. That’s ridiculous.

    Dont mistake my comments for saying “lets play youth for the sake of youth.” Our “second year players” are basically guys – other than Tyutin and Prucha – that we’d trade in a heartbeat. Jason Ward? Adam Hall? Please. Perhaps Betts will continue to develop into a solid third line center. But wouldn’t it be great if this year we found a way to bring along Dawes, who has nothing left to learn in Hartford, and had another possibly strong, young offensive player with young legs on board for the next 10 years? Why isnt this a priority? Because like I said and Sam said, they’re in win now mode and are too concerned with the 2 points in front of them to realize that they can pay for having a lousy team now or pay later. Last year they paid later – maybe this year they’ll do both.

  35. SAM: Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, very little that Renney says makes sense. I liken him to a snake oil/used car salesman who keeps yammering and says very little, thinking he’s cutely evading giving real answers. You wouldn’t happen to have Renney’s e-mail address, would you? Seriously. And thanks for the forum.

  36. Chardkerm, you can get Renney’s answers on this blog. The company line is spouted over and over by Wildcard and Tdchi among others. You could put Renney’s name on those posts and believe it was his own thoughts.

  37. Doodie Machetto on

    Peter,

    I understand your frustration. But where do you put Dawes? Even if Cullen was centering the third line, Dawes is a winger. Who plays center on the 2nd line? There still wouldn’t be a spot for dawes. Dawes is not the type of player the Rangers have a spot in the lineup for right now, an offensive winger. they have 4 of those already, all much better than Dawes. Granted, he could try and bring an offensive element to the third line, but really, he’s young enough that getting more playing time in Hartford to fine tune his game won’t hurt him.

    I think Rachunek is rusty. He hasn’t been in the NHL for a couple of years and is trying to get used to the new rules. Having a defensive liability in Ozo as your partner doesn’t help the process. He should get better though.

    Ozo is still good at bringing the puck up the ice although he is a liability at defense. But I think the same could be said of Pock. I would say play Pock for Ozo, but then you’re leaving Malik in the lineup.

    There is no excuse for Malik in the lineup. None.

  38. Jonathan Probber on

    Tom — Agree with you re the early Rangers of our experience..Emile Francis, Giacomin, Gilbert, Hadfield etc. Seems like things went bad as the 70’s wore on. A revolving door of GM’s and coaches (and owners, for that matter). I tuned out for most of the 80’s..just too painful. I wonder what Sather has planned for the rest of this decade. Maybe bring in Isiah Thomas.

  39. about Hossa: I was probably his #1 fan last season, but even I have had enough. While he is not bad defensively, he doesn’t provide much offense or hitting. And seriously about the same goes for Betts, Jason Ward and Hall. I want 3rd and 4th liners like Hollweg, Gaustad, Pahlsson, Begin, Neil, Cooke, etc. and I want top liners that throw hits along the boards, not just soft pokechecks.

  40. let’s get it clear. If the only opening is on a checking line or an energy line, then Korpikoski could take the place of Hossa. Or Dubinsky could take the place of Ward.

    It is NOT a Dawes or else situation. It is a situation where mgmt. PROMISED a youth rebuild and then went out and re-loaded with vets again.

    And the Rangers had a player payroll of over $70 million in the years before the cap. So, it would not kill them to send vet Dmen or forwards to the minors and swallow their salaries, like Lou did with McGillis in NJ.

    When they are in the minors, they have to be paid, but they don’t count against the NHL cap.

  41. Jonathan, actually the raqngers weren’t that bad IN THE 80’S, unfortunately we were in the same division as the islanders and we did beat the islanders and went to a cup in 1979 so I don’t remember or think the rangers were pathetic at all in those decades. It really started when Dolan bought the rangers/knicks. The rangers under sather didn’t make the playoffs for seven yars which you wonder where are those draft picks considering teams like the devils, redwings make the playoffs every year and still have a good farm system. I know people have said because we buy players but in reality sather and his stooges in my opinion have not drafted well. Sather cleaned house in 2004 but in reality got some player drafties and draft picks. The players he got are not that good hence why the other teams got rid of them. I will say though that we didn’t have hockey in 2005 and last year we did have a few young players from the rangers farm system play for the rangers and did well. In reality this is the second year in building for the future so maybe people need to be a little more patient and see in the next few years if the rangers do become younger and better. I also wouldn’t hold your breath over it. I am not a big fan of Sather and his stooges but I bleed true blue and will still be pationate about the rangers. Time will tell!!!

  42. Doodie Machetto on

    “When they are in the minors, they have to be paid, but they don’t count against the NHL cap.”

    I don’t think that is true. The Devs were on the hook for Mogilny when he was in the AHL.

    Furthermore, Hossa is dirt cheap. His numbers last year weren’t terrible either. People like to point out his no assist in 50+ games, but neglect to mention he scored 5 goals during that time. He had 10 goals last season. 10 goals for a 4th liner is great. Why add more salary that will prohibit a move later in the season in the event that the team is poised for a playoff run?

    Ward put up around 30 points last season and is one of the teams harder workers, he deserves to stay in the lineup. You want to remove someone, remove Orr. Then you can have a 4th line winger. 3rd line if you move Hollweg to Orr’s spot.

  43. Hey vinny pooh,
    I am actually shocked that you liked Hossa last year because I never liked Hossa and last year i remember him playing once in a while on the 3rd and maybe the 2nd and had multiple oppurtunities to score and he could not finish. I will say though for what his responsibilties are this year he is ok for what it is worth but if he left tommorrow and you asked me years from now about Hossa i wouldn’t know who you were talking about.

  44. Mogilny and Malakhov were both over 35 at the time hence could not have their cap space sent to the ahl.

  45. Doodie, you are just plain wrong. when a vet player goes to the AHL for good, not on a conditioning assignment, but on a real minor league send down, just like McGillis, his salary DOES NOT count against the cap.

    if some other dumb team first wants to pick them up on waivers, they can have them.

    Also, Jason Ward was effective last year at RW. He does not belong at C. and your support for that useless Hossa doesn’t help your cause.

  46. Doodie Machetto on

    The Blue Jackets have become the second team this season to fire their coach, and he might ironically be replaced by Ken Hitchcock, the first. How does everyone think Renney has to do this year in order to be here next year?

  47. Doodie Machetto on

    Korpikoski and Dubinsky aren’t exactly tearing it up in the AHL. Why not show Hossa some confidence instead of crushing him into nothing?

  48. Doodie Machetto on

    SCREW HOSSA! I just broke three toes after tripping on my way away from the computer after defending him!

  49. Hey Doogie Machetto,
    I give you all the credit in the world the way you have been defending Hosa even though I don’t like the guy myself but i think the rangers have bigger problems and I don’t think its Hossa.

  50. as I have said a million times, you don’t have to tear it up in the AHL to be a good NHL player. the Sharks are loaded with good young players and almost none of them dominated the AHL in any way. the only way is to play them to find out, and they showed that they could do the job in pre-season.

  51. For what its worth, I actually think Renney’s system is a decent one. I think he just is a terrible evaluator of talent and like all the coaches before him thinks he’ll lose all the players if he holds the vets accountable for their mistakes.

  52. Doodie Machetto on

    My last comment for a while as I have to ice my foot:

    Which preseason were you watching? Dubinsky was OK, Korpikoski didn’t impress me at all. Staal and Pock were the only two prospects that impressed me. And the Shark’s rookies that are great aren’t forwards, they’re all defenseman. If a forward can’t score at the AHL level, he is CERTAINLY not going to in the bigs.

  53. 4ranger,
    That’s the first thing that makes sense and i agree with on this blog. The only problem is I think renney doesn’t feel comfortable doing. I think renney puts alot of stock with veteran players and doesn’t trust the young players in the minors. I remember watching some preseason games this year and a few players from the farm system that played in the rangers pre-season games looked good to me.

  54. I did NOT say rookies with the Sharks . I said good young players, like forwards Michalek, Bernier, Cheechoo, Goc, Rissmiller, etc. and Dmen Ehrhoff, Carle, Vlasic, etc.

  55. Tom G, that’s the problem. Renney sat right in front of Ranger fans on that future blue telecast meeting with fans about a year or more ago, and lied right thru his teeth, because he told THEM that he was now going to go with youth and never said he was uncomfortable playing kids.

  56. 4Rangers…I agree that Korpi or Dubi can move into a couple of 3rd/4th line spots…but I have NO problem with letting them have more time in Hartford ro work on their games…there really is no reason to push them into the NHL this early in the year, or even this year…I tihnk Next year we may see one or both of them, and Hossa can be traded at the deadline, and YES a team would take an extra guy for the PK, some teams bairly have 4 PK forwards and a couple other who play the PK once ina blue moon. If the Rangers can get a guy from the Pack who can kill pims and show decently 5 on 5 than Hossa can be moved for a 3rd/4th rounder or something…and that would open a spot for a guy form the Pack who can fill that role..not saying that WILL happen, but I think the soonest it will happen wouldbe at the deadline…

  57. I know, i remember watching that on msg. I will say one thing, at this point my head is spinning about everybodies fustration
    with what sather, maloney and renney are doing. well, i know what sather is doing, what he likes to do best, golfing.

  58. Hey wildcard,
    I made a similar comment earlier, I think we need to be a little more patient with the youth movement. In reality it really only started last year since there was no hockey in 2005 and I don’t count the end of 2004. If where not seeing this movement next year than i can understand everybodies fustration.

  59. Lets not forget the rangers have some young guys, from the net out…its not like NO young guys get min…Look at how he palys Hollweg, he puts him out there alot, not as much as most of us like…but you can tell that he still has some gaems that he isnt really playing well..so he dosnt see as much ice, in games were he comes out his first few shifts and goes like a bat out of hell, he gets palying time. Youve got Tyutin who if you havnt noticed, is getting ALOT more ice time, Prucha who was mostly a 3rd line player last year, is set on the 2nd line, Betts is not an old guy, nore Ward, or Hossa (even though he isnt liked…he is still a young player with a short NHL resume) yopuve got Hall, and Orr I mean come on…they might not be top line guys, but you cant say Renney only uses Vets…and if you want to talk about ice time..OK..maybe some of the older guys get to much, but Jagr plays alot of PP time, and Shanny is doing it all…but when the Rangers dont get alot of PIMS he gets alot less and the 4th line gets alot more 5 on 5. Last year Renney Rolled four lines, and the vets didnt mind, he also Sat Nylander, so lets just wait and see if he really had changed…i dont think so, I think he has something that he is trying to do, he knows how to read his palyers as well or better than anyt fan AND he gets to see them in pratice and in the locker room…so lets give a little break on the Renneys a vet lover and kid hater for a bit…if at the end of the seaon its still exaclty the same, or ever the halfway mark of the season,than add me to the people who will want to call renney at home and yell at him…but I dont want to jump to conclusions, if I remember there were times last year when people bashed something he did, and than they had to eat crow because it was EXACTLY what teh team needed…so lets give him a chance to get things going…its still VERY early in the season…and the Rangers ARE NOT doing to badly really…

  60. quit naming mid-20’s guys who were acquired from other teams as ranger youth. we are talking about Ranger-drafted, homegrown young players.

  61. 4Rangers – players over 35 in multi year contracts do count against the cap.

    I think if you have issues with Sather et al it should be in their drafting much more so than not playing certain players like Pock (a waiver pickup) or Immonen (despite your protests AHL stats do matter and he has been terrible this year).

  62. Sam

    Re your reponse.
    I don’t understand why an organization as rich as the N Y Rangers cannot have a team plan for players in place in August instead of this uncertainty in November. How can such a deep pocket organization not know what condition Kaspar was in earlier? Or the status of the teams commitment to the future after a 4 and out playoff? They made one trade (Hall-Moore) signed some decent character guys. BUT did not address the second line. Why? The signings were not second line caliber. As an intelligent hockey fan ,as Ranger fans are, it would seem to indicate the promotion of offensive minded rookies.
    I don’t understand the logic of the signings versus the lineup that is produced every night. The staff continues to play 6 fourth line players every night!!! What gives? Hossa,Ward,Betts,Orr, Hollweg, and Hall cannot play at the same time!! The Rangers need to create more space out there by putting additional skill on the ice everynight. That would institute playing some players who are defensive liabilities in contrast to their offensive skill. It just has to be. You cant keep playing 5 guys most of the game because they are the only offense besides pp.

  63. correction Pock was a free agent (before someone else corrects me)

    the 35 year old comment is relative to the player whether they are cut, sent to minors or whatever unless you get the league and another team to agree to a trade like the Devs did.

  64. 4Rangers – Pitts players are superstars (one of whom they won vis lottery). Maybe we should get rid of all our vets and get top 3 players in the draft 3 years running.

    John M -it is our overall team d that is hurting the team not a lack of goals scored.

  65. LI joe, I know that, but all the Rangers I was referring to are under 35.

    and you are wrong, AHL stats mean NOTHING. That is why that among the leading goal scorers in the AHL for years was guys like brad Smyth, boudreau, hamilton, etc. AHL lifers who never moved up permanently because skating ability is much more important than stats to the NHL. It is also why teams with good young players have not necessarily had success teamwise in the AHL, it doesn’t matter, as long as some of the individuals can excel at a higher level.

  66. quit being ridiculous. you know damn well what we have been saying. that mixing in a FEW young players instead of going with foot soldier retreads is the right formula. No one suggested that the top of the team would be disturbed. so quit the deceptive crap.

  67. AHL stats mean something when a player is -15 like Immonen and zero goals is a problem.

    Yes 28 year olds can thrive in the AHL vs many of the younger players.

    Like I said above it is the team d not the o that is hurting the Rangers (in addition to unbalanced playing time).

  68. John M…the Rangers play the top two lines most, the 3rd line with Betts at the pivot and Hollweg with Hall is sarting to get better, and as it dose gets some more time on ice, but you dont see teh best teams in the NHL or even the midle teams like the Rangers palying with 3 offensive lines…nonono, they get more scoreing from their role palyers sometimes, but thts rare, most teams get their scoreing from the top 6 forwards, and a goal here and there from the bottom 6. The thing I dont get is you dont realise the Rangers going into the game in Washington were the 3rd highest scoreing team in the NHL…why do they need more skill, they NEED better D, the PK is ok, but can imporve and will once Orts is 100% Maybe a trade is made for a really good two way guy, but I doubt it, but you dont sacrifice D for O when you already have weak D and strong O…that makes no sense, and is why the Rangers brass said teh fans wouldnt stand for a rebuild, because ESPECIALLY during a rebuild you have palyers who dont get on the scoreshet, but keep the team in games…thas why they are rebuilding the way they are, “fans” somewhat like you woudl get all pissed off if the team lost with defensive players…even if the loses were 2-1 and 1-0, so they are tring to kep the fans happy.

  69. Sam —

    Are the Rangers really considering playing Pock at forward? They did that in Hartford too.

    Personally, it irritated me when they did it in Hartford because Pock needed to develop his defensive game. I still think he needs to work on his defensive game a bit more.

    But then again he’s not going to get better period if he doesn’t play. *sigh*

  70. LI JOE

    True. But I believe if you keep the puck in the offensive zone for a far better percentage of the night by trying to score off the rush with 3 lines doing it ,ala Sabres, it would create a better defense instantly instead of playing trap hockey. I dont think this group of forwards has the ability to play off the rush except 5 forwards out of 12. I want to see the 4 man rush with one man back. Pressure the puck in their zone. We score on the pp most of the time.

  71. Jen dont foget that Pock wasnt a defendre untill after he started his College career…he was always a forward…so if they can get him in the game, Play him at wing 5 on 5 and than put him on the PK, it would be like having 3 defenders…Also, if a Defensman had a bad givaway, ala Malik it would be easier to bench himo, since doing so now would mean the other 5 defenders have to play much more to pick up the ice time…its easier to bench a wingger during a game because more ice time uselly helps a wingger, but hurts a defender because they get tired…

  72. how many goals did the 3d highest scoring team score vs the Devils in the playoffs last year when the ice got real small??? How many PP’s did they get in that playoff series?? How many PP goals did they score in that series??

  73. hey wildcard, don’t give me any of that “Ranger brass says” crap. just look at the evasive, two-faced answers Renney gives Sam. If you believe “Ranger brass”, well then I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn for you.

  74. John M – agree that it helps to keep the puck in the other teams zone like Jagr could do by himself last yr it seemed and that certainly helped Malik and Rozsival. I just don’t think we have that type of talent in our organization (that are NHL ready currently). Could some of the Hartford guys help down the road – I sure hope so since most of our top picks in the draft have been goalies or dmen lately (or forwards like Jessiman who are not suited for the new rules). Which also means down the road a trade of a goalie for a real good forward capable of plkaying the type of game you suggest.

  75. John M: why is it 5 forwards…It seems that all the top 6 can play off the rush…which player of the top six dosnt do decnt off the rush?? The top line can do good things off the rush, so I dont think its any of those 3, so who of Cullen Shanny, Prucha dont do well off the rush?? And as for jsut those 6, Bettes has shown that he can creat ofeense off the rush, Hollweg gets in the zone and puts the puck on net, the 3 of them with Hall get down low and cycle good, put pressureon the other team, and play werll defensivly, the 4th line…you dont look to for offense, but the tend to get the puck deep and give the top two lines and the 3rd line 30 to 45 seconds of rest and not much happens on the ice. I dont think you can use BUF as an example, teams like that are rare, and the rangers would have trouble putting a team like that on the ice unless they want to try to win games 7-6, cause if you press like that to muc you get burned withought the great skating D and guys who can get back..sooo…I tihnk the Rnger need tweeking, mostly on D, the top 9 skters will be fine if the D can get figured out…

  76. LI JOE
    I can’t wait for that trade!!!

    The Rangers need more options up front period. The goal totals are skewed by the PP in the Regular Season. I know we can score on the PP.

  77. LI Joe…Jessiman, not suited for the new rules? From all acounts he is a better skater than Hall, and has a good shot, and if he puts it together he will be a big guy with above average mobility and a great shot…that means he is helped by the “new” NHL…guys that arnt suited anymore will be of the Dillon Flatt type…not the Jessiman type…

  78. 4Rangers : winning coaches are evasive about things…Renney has ALWAYS ALWAYS kept things from the team behind closed doors…you think he is going to tell the reason that Pock isnt playing…ithter opne he has to say something ba about him in public, or two he would might have to talk about the team shopping another player, and the Rangers dont talk about player and personelstuff like that, in fact I tihnk its against the rules…so untill you know why he isnt givng stright answers dont coment on them…I jsut hate when peopel decide what someone is thinking…Fans do it all the time…I keep an open mind and I dont seem to get nearly as stressed out as most fans.

  79. You dont include Cullen as Offensive…even know his speed is waht creats the rushes for the 2nd line…yeah I know he dosnt finsish, but some of the Rangers best chances for that 2nd line have come from his speed up the middle or down the wing…you talk about creating off the rush, but you dont think the rangers fasted forward on the top 6, OK, maybe 2nd fastest, isnt included in that? SO what, you think he shoudl be replaced?? By who?? I dont think any center in Hartford is ready for 2nd line min and none as fast, and if you want to make a trade for a guy who is thatfast with better skills…well say byby to Prucha at LEAST…

  80. Wildcard – I disagree re Jessiman he is not a good skater at all and IMO is a mistake and a reach for the order he was picked (do agree with your Hall comment re his skating). Of course I would love to be proven wrong but time will tell.

  81. John M Prob is…you will burn out you goali letting him see that much rubber, and you will lose more games that youel win becaus eother teams will stop your Offensi every once in a while and than you got NOTHING to win a game with…talk about a way to make a full out of a team and make it the laughing stock of the NHL again…the Rangers tried that tactic for years…outscore no defense..and it was almost unanimos that the Rangers needed to get better dfensivly and get better defensinv forwards..now you are calling for a more open game…LOL…i cant beleive it, i thought I wouldnt hear a call like that for YEARS

  82. you don’t get stressed out because you blindly accept the pablum that “ranger brass” spoon feeds you and other willing ostriches. ignorance is bliss.

  83. LI Joe every scout I have talked to (yes I do get to talk to a few here and there) and every fan who has played coached and all say that Jessiman has the skating, has the shot, has teh size, has trhe brains, just dosnt have them on the ice at the same time and cant seem to get them together…his skating, for his size, is something that is pointerd to again and again and again since he can keep up with the play in the AHL and he is so big, he isnt ever the last guy on the play, or getting back defensivly, he jsut dosnt do good once he gets there…

  84. Johm M Nither dose Nylander, and NOT EVERY PLAYER HAS TO SCORE THE GOALS…thats what Prucha and Shanny are for…Man oh man..no wonder why so many Rangers fans arnt happy, they think CUllen isnt good on the ruch cause he dosnt score…but they forget that wow the puck wouldnt be in the zone and the line would get chances withough his speed, and he helps out defensivly, the first step to getting the puck into the offensive zone is getting it out of the defensive zone, Cullen dose it great, You talk about how buffalo plays off the rush…well they couldnt do it withough their speed, so Cullen brings the speed along with Prucha and SHanny has good speed and gets into the zone to try to get a pass from Cullen, both he and Prucha goto the net, as long as Cullen gets the puck in the Offensive zone and teh line is with him he is helping the rush, and playing off teh rush, you want 3 guys on wing and a defender who all have speed and finish, and that jsut dosnt happen in the NHL not every player scores lots of gaols…

  85. Even Scotty Bowman said today that the New NHL creates the need for a Rover defensman out there that joins the rush with one stay at home guy.
    SCOTTY BOWMAN not me!

  86. The rangers arnt Trapping…NO TEAM palys a no defense game…most teams have the bottom 6 who are defensive first types…the lucky teams have a couple guys who have a bit more skill and can get it done on offense…what you are talking about is NOT the new NHL, you still have to be a defensive team, NOT TRAP but have to play defense, you think that its pond hockey, well I dnt know what NHL youve been watching becaue that sthe LAST thing the Sabers and the Ducks do to win, they play strong D, and than transition with their speed, guys like Cullen and Prucha on teh Rangers do that, along with Straka and Nylander and Jagr, Even Hollweg gets that part done fairly well, The Ducks and Sabers paly good D and develope their Offense off of that, if they just went all out offensivly like you seem to be saying they woudl lose alot more…

  87. don’t keel over, wildcard, but here is where I agree with you. Cullen is a big upgrade over last year’s #2 C, Rucchin. And fans may not realize that the Cullen line has 22 goals, and the Jagr line has 21. so, who is not finishing?

  88. yeah, a defender that can “Join the rush” Not forget about D, and Roszival dose that, Tyutin is starting to, Ozo dose that Rachunek will as well…so that at least 2 or 3 that will do that for the Rangers…But having the 3rd line be another offensive line isnt the answer, the rangers will sut give up even MORE goals than they do now…

  89. 4rangers well yeah, Now once JJ is back to himself, and he is getting closer and closer, I tihnkhis line will pass the 2nd line again…but I tihnk the top two lines shoudlnt be messed with unless it a MAJOR upgrade at center….like a true number to or a true number one, Like Vinny L from TB…The 3rd line is comeing together, but I would take a better Center, and move Betts down and redo the 4th line, if the Rangers could get a center for the 3rdline who was a better two way player, than that would upgrade teh 3rd AND 4th lines…and once ORTS is back it would get even better…than you have spares like ORR and HOSSA to step in when there are inuries, or for certain games…

  90. doodiemachetto on

    “And fans may not realize that the Cullen line has 22 goals, and the Jagr line has 21″

    No they don’t. Neither line has that many. Their goal numbers are inflated by the powerplay. Like Shanny, who has 7 PP goals.

    I’m not saying Cullen is bad, I actually quite like him. The problem is his feeds aren’t that great yet and he has two scoring wingers on his line that he needs to set up a little better. If so, that will be one hell of a line. Remember, Shanahan spent last year with Datsyuk as his center. Cullen is no Datsyuk.

  91. each one of those threesomes has 9 PP goals. so even strength the Cullen line has 13 goals, and the Jagr line has 12. Next question.

    No, Shanny scored 40 goals last year, and he is on pace for 60 so far.

  92. No offense, but anyone who expects the upper echelon of management to be giving the fans, or even the beat writers (especially junior ones), the straight scoop is a fool. What’s Renney gonna do? Explain why he thinks one of the players on his team is a disaster or that he has an attitude problem or that another team should never trade for him because he’s got a consistently recurring injury?

    That wouldn’t happen in a tiny market, much less New York. You’ll have better luck getting the truth from Dick Cheney than any pro sports management.

    This is a business, and it’s not the Green Bay Packers. We fans may pay the bills in the long run, but get real if you think that matters to these executives. The day you hear a coach or GM being truly straight with the fans it’ll be the day AFTER they’ve been fired.

    Don’t expect Renney to be honest and you won’t be so angry or disappointed. Question his decisions and game plan and, certainly, his choice in sports coats, but stop expecting him to level with us about anything. He’s not going to.

    Let’s pray that behind closed doors Renney’s insight into the Rangers’ woes is deeper and his vision of the future is keen.

    And Let’s go Rangers.

  93. 1. You guys just keep praying. The notion that Tom Renney has some great master plan that will be revealed to us and magically transform the Rangers into the Buffalo Sabres is just that: a prayer. Tom Renney and Glen Sather have one goal: win tonight, at any expense.

    2. We have very few young impact players (Tyutin, Lundquist, and Prucha to be exact) because the Rangers have drafted very poorly up until maybe the last 1-2 years and because we won’t even find out if half these guys can play because they’re not given the opportunity. One minute people are saying Dawes sure didn’t show much, the next they’re saying he’s not a fourth liner but a second liner. Well then how about playing him on the second line? How about rolling two PP units for a minute each (instead of sending Cullen and Prucha out there with 20 seconds left) and putting Dawes on one of them? You can’t tell a player he’s got to earn his ice time but then hire veterans with 13 years of experience to play in front of him and NOT allow him to beat tyhem out for a spot. You can’t then turn around and say you have to earn your ice time in the 3 minutes I allot you with Colton Orr every night. How productive would Jagr be with Orr and Hossa as linemates? And Hossa did get a shot at line #2 last year, didnt that work out great.

    3. People, get over the notion that we have good defensemen. Tyutin is developing nicely, Ward has been reasonably good, and beyond that its a joke. Renney says that Ozo moves the puck well so despite his giveaways, he plays. Not good enough. Those giveaways cost us games. Does Ozo have even a single point this year? Ditto for Malik. Anyone who supports the idea that Rachunek is better than Pock is just blindly trusting Renney to guide us.

    4. The idea of attacking 4 players is a great one and its why the Sabres are so good. in fact, I noticed what they really do – they bring 2 guys down low to cycle and two into the crease, and then instead of just cyclling in the corner, one of them just slides the puck along the goal line right into the crease. Its scary as hell for the opposition, and it works because A. The Sabres are not afraid to go to the crease and cause problems and B. They have young, fast legs that are able to get back quickly off those plays and play defense. Even our offensive defensemen arent good enough to join a rush, and if they did, we’d give up about 25 4 on 1’s a game becaue our guys are both too slow and often too lazy to get back.

  94. “No, Shanny scored 40 goals last year, and he is on pace for 60 so far”

    Pace is crap. A week or two ago he was on pace for 80. He’ll score 40 again, largely because of his PP numbers.

    And the Jagr line has so few goals only because Jagr doesn’t have his shot back unless it’s a setup to a onetimer. He only has 5 goals. Imagine if he was actually able to score – the numbers wouldn’t be close. Cullen also spent time away from the second line, when Blair Betts was there, and Shanahan started the season on the first line, so again, the numbers are misleading.

  95. CHRIS…You’re right. But how does your putting any energy or loyalty into the management you just described not make you and all of us “fools”? The true “non Kool-Aid drinking fans” are frustrated. Of course, we can’t control what the incompetents that are running this team, so these forums are our outlet to vent our frustrations.

    PETER…Good post. You have the right to be pissed and to express it. As far as the tools that run the team, hopefully, this too shall pass.

  96. Wow, my last post was West Coast early morning cobwebs…Corrections:

    But how does your putting any energy or loyalty into the management you just described not make you a different kind of “fool�?

    Of course, we can’t control the incompetents that are running this team, so these forums are our outlet to vent our frustrations.

  97. hey peter,
    I mentioned that earlier about hossa. i also remember him getting some chances on the 2nd line last year and had multiple easy open net goals in front of him and missed badly.
    I think where all missing the real problem here. The rangers didn’t make the playoffs for seven years under sather.Where are those draft picks, please someone tell me and it has nothing to do with the rangers buying players in the old CBA. I think sather and Maloney did a terrible job in drafting. Sather said there going in a youth movement, fine. In reality this started last year so it takes time to draft and develop players, at least give it some time and not 20 games in to the season. Beleive me, I am not a big fan of sather’s but I think we need to be a bit more patient than 20 games in to the season.

  98. chardkerm:

    I think you misunderstand me. I’m not a man of faith. When I say we should pray I’m saying that’s our only small chance in hell. I don’t think Renney has a master plan, I think he’s screwing up, short-sighted and stubborn beyond measure. But the constant demand for ‘the truth’ seems out of place and silly. We’re never going to get it. Christ, Joe Torre still acts as if steroids didn’t really happen.

    Trust me, I’m certainly a fool in many ways, but thinking that Renney and the others have a ‘secret plan’ isn’t one of them…

    and if it was up to me someone might give Malik the ole Tanya Harding. It may be the only way to get him off the ice.

  99. Doodie- Actually, Shanny only played a few pre-season games with Jags on the first line. I think the only difference to the second line was Betts replacing Pruch for a while.

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